The Secret Strategist Behind The Biggest YouTubers

我们可以拿来用的一个例子，就是全球最快的无人机对决F1赛车。

That we can pull from, which is world's fastest camera drone versus f one car.

它的缩略图设计得非常简洁明了。

And it's a really clean and simple thumbnail.

你能具体聊聊在红牛这个案例里，是怎么构思出这个视频的吗？

Can you talk about just ideating within that context of Red Bull this video?

比如，你们是怎么把这个创意落地执行的？

Like, how do you bring that forward?

你是怎么知道这招会奏效的？它为什么有效？

Why did did you know this was gonna work, and why does it work?

我从来没像上传那支视频时那么有信心。

I I've never been more confident on uploading YouTube videos I was with that video.

真的吗？

Really?

我本来没指望它能拿到两千八百万播放量，因为那时候我们平均一支视频也就一百万播放左右，但我当时特别笃定这招行得通。

I didn't think it would do 28,000,000 because we were like averaging maybe a million views a video at the time, but I was so confident that would work.

所以我觉得，如果你往回看，这些视频背后都有一个起源故事。

So I think if you go back, all these videos have like an origin story.

我第一次给红牛提建议的视频，就是他们做的那期，内容是山地自行车对决全球最快的摄影无人机，或者是全球最快的FPV无人机，那期视频效果非常好。

And the first video I ever gave Red Bull any advice on was this video they did, which was mountain bike versus world's best camera drone or something or world's best FPV drone, and that ended up doing really well for them.

播放量大概在五百万到一千万之间，而且那其实是我们开始跟红牛合作之前的事了，大概是三年前。

It did like, I wanna say like five to 10,000,000 views in that sort of range, and that was actually before we started working with Red Bull, that was like three years ago now.

我觉得这件事在内部埋下了一颗种子，让他们意识到这种对决形式挺有意思，还有那种高速摄影无人机也很吸引人。同时我们也分析了频道数据，看看什么内容在频道里表现得好。

And I think that planted a seed just internally that, hey, this Versus format's interesting, and drones, like fast camera drones are interesting, and we also looked at the channel, and we saw, well, what's working on the channel?

F1的内容显然非常受欢迎，而且在频道上表现也很好。

Formula one content is obviously very popular and was working really well on the channel.

接着，我们可以聊聊另一个方面，就是如何找到品牌的竞争优势。

And then building into, like, another component which we can talk about, which is, like, trying to identify competitive advantages if you're a brand.

这一点同样适用于创作者，哪怕是小型创作者。

This can also apply to to creators and even small creators.

比如，你有什么别人做不到的独特之处？

Like, what is something unique that you can do that other people can't?

然后他们就想，哎，我们手里有F1赛车啊。

And it's like, well, we have access to f one cars.

我们还能请到全球最顶尖的F1车手，马克斯·维斯塔潘。

We have access to the world's best f one driver, Max Verstappen.

我们还有资源和能力去打造一款超高速的摄影无人机。

We have access and resources to be able to build a refast camera drone.

把这些元素凑在一起，你就会觉得，要是拍个视频，让全球最快的车手开着F1赛车，去跟全球最快的摄影无人机比赛，看谁能跟上谁，那得多有意思啊。

You start to put these pieces together, and you're like, well, how interesting would a video be where you race the world's fastest driver in an f one car against the world's fastest camera drone and try to actually get it to keep up.

但这视频有意思的地方在于，这其实跟你之前提到的观点有关，就是标题和缩略图可能有点夸张，甚至让人觉得‘这真的假的？’

But the interesting thing about this video, and this kind of goes back to your points earlier about, like, maybe the title thumbnail feeling almost like a little bit exaggerated, not even like could this be real?

你仔细看那个视频，其实根本不是比赛，而是无人机在跟着车跑。

That video, when you actually look at it, it's actually not a race, it's the drone following the car.

但你想想这个标题，假如标题是‘全球最快无人机试图跟上F1赛车’。

But if you think about that as a title, imagine the title was like, world's fastest drone tries to keep up with f one car.

这就很有意思了。

That's interesting.

对。

Yeah.

不过可能那样就能拿到四百万播放量了。

But maybe that would have got 4,000,000 views.

这也算是故事的结尾了，因为确实是这样。

It's also kind of the end of the story because it Yeah.

就像你给那个视频起的标题，根本行不通。

It like the way you titled that didn't work.

试图跟上。

Tries to keep up with.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，就像，

You know, like,

没成功。

didn't work.

对。

Yeah.

然后事情就这么继续往前推进了。

And it's just moving on.

哪怕只是缩略图，也许你可以展示无人机跟着车飞的画面。但这种形式其实是从红牛频道那种非常成功的格式借鉴来的，其他频道也这么干。比如那种直线加速赛的格式，如果你看过 Carwow 频道，他们经常做那种布加迪威龙对决法拉利 F1 之类的视频，后面还跟着一个跟拍镜头。

Even for a thumbnail, maybe you show the drone following the car, but like just seeing that format, which was actually built and lifted from a format that works really well on the Red Bull channel, but also for other channels, which is like the Drag Race format, which if you ever see the channel Carwow, they do these things like Bugatti Veyron versus Ferrari f one fifty or something, and it's like these races with this behind camera angle.

所以我们就想，干脆借鉴这种效果很好的格式吧。

So we were like, let's take inspiration from that format that works really well.

咱们把它们放在一起吧。

Let's put them together.

在轨道上放一架无人机。

Let's put a drone on the track.

在轨道上放一辆F1赛车。

Let's put an f one car on the track.

而且，我是说，在我看来，这真是一部很棒的电影。

And, I mean, it's just it's a beautiful film in my opinion.

那你在制作这个视频的过程中参与程度有多深？

So how involved are you in the process of of that video?

从最初的创意构思到最后的成片，包括审看剪辑，你和你的团队都是全程参与的吗？

Are you there and your team there from ideation all the way through completion, like looking at edits?

对。

Yeah.

你是指像那样的视频吗？

I video like that?

我觉得我们可以把自己定位为策略师，所以并不负责传统的拍摄制作。

I like to think about it as, like, we're we're strategists, so we don't do traditional production.

也就是说，我们不会亲自去片场。

Like, we're not there on the set.

拍那段视频的时候，我们也没在现场。

We weren't there on the set of that video.

不过我们会负责前期的创意构思。

But we'll take we'll work on the ideation.

比如，我们会和红牛一起，共同构思这些创意并打磨它们。我觉得那个最初的点子，其实是红牛内部一位制片人提出的，我们只是在此基础上进行调整，确保它能吸引到他们想要的观众群体。

Like, we'll work alongside Red Bull, like, coming up with these ideas and working on those ideas, and I believe that original idea, like, was born internally at Red Bull from one of their producers' column, and we just worked with it to make sure that it's adapted to be able to hit the viewership they want.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know?

所以，我们其实是基于他们最初那个大概的创意雏形，把它梳理清楚，然后让它变得更丰富、更广泛。

So we actually took their original sort of semblance of an idea, figured out and make it broader.

比如，我们会给包装和标题提供建议。

So we'll advise on like the packaging, the title.

拍摄前，制作团队会和我还有我的团队开会，把拍摄的各个节点过一遍，确定视频的结构和要呈现的内容，之后还会参与剪辑审核。

Before the shoot, like, the producers will meet with my team and myself, and we'll just go through the shoot beats and just figure out how we're gonna structure the video and what we're gonna show, and then we'll do, like, edit reviews.

对我来说，最后一步通常是我们亲自为红牛制作缩略图。

And then the final thing for me is always, like, working we actually make the thumbnails for Red Bull.

对于大多数客户，我们并不负责制作缩略图。

For most of our clients, we don't make the thumbnails for Red Bull.

不过我们会制作缩略图。

We we make thumbnails.

我的设计师Britney太棒了，必须给她点个赞。

My amazing designer, Britney, shout out to Britney.

虽然我说的是我的设计师，但她其实也在帮很多很棒的创作者做设计。

And I say my designer, but she works for a lot of incredible creators.

我这边最容易跟客户产生摩擦的地方，通常是我对标题和缩略图有非常强烈的个人偏好，而且我会据理力争。

And my my, like, biggest thing that always leads to the most friction with clients is usually, like, I have a very strong opinion on what the title thumbnail should be, and I will, like, argue that case.

我还记得当时那个视频，我觉得他们提的某个标题和缩略图组合虽然不错，但绝对能拿到一百万播放量。

And I even remember for that specific video, like, I was like, perhaps one of the other titles and thumbnail combinations they were suggesting, I was like, it's good, but it could get a million views.

我那个视频，我觉得能有一千万播放量。

My one, I think, can get 10,000,000 views.

我记得当时是这么说的。

I remember saying that.

对。

Mhmm.

你懂的吧？

You know?

因为听起来好像很小，但即便是一个制作非常精良的视频，它也是一份极其出色的内容。

Because it's it sounds so small, but like even for a video that's so well executed, it's such an incredible piece of content.

所有参与制作的人都做得非常出色，但我们的包装方式可能会决定它是获得几百万播放量，还是两千八百万播放量。

Everyone that was involved in that content just did a phenomenal job, but how we packaged it could be the difference between it getting a couple million views and 28,000,000.

所以

So

我觉得这是一个非常有趣的练习，这其实是吉米第一次我们去格林维尔时跟我们说过的话。

I think it's a really interesting exercise to this is actually something Jimmy said to us the first time we ever went to Greenville.

他跟我们说，在包装设计方面，要把概念推到最夸张的程度，然后再收回到你觉得舒适的范围。

He told us with our packaging, he he said, pull it to the most exaggerated version of what it is, and then pull it back to what you're comfortable with.

先去探索这个概念最夸张的样子。

But but explore the most exaggerated version of the concept.

我觉得这是一个非常有趣的思维框架和练习。

And and I thought that was a really interesting mental framework and exercise.

还有我特别喜欢的一期视频，虽然标题和封面不算特别夸张，但这是我在YouTube上最喜欢的一个，来自Veritasium频道。

And one of my favorite videos, this is not necessarily exaggerated, but one of my favorite title thumbnails on YouTube is from Veritasium.

这就是为什么这个水库里会有九千六百万个黑球？

And it is why are there 96,000,000 black balls on this reservoir?

太炸了。

Banger.

确实。对。

It is Mhmm.

这标题和缩略图简直绝了。

It is an unbelievable title thumbnail.

这个视频的播放量有1.02亿次。

It has a 102,000,000 views.

我觉得刚好反过来，如果要做最夸张的版本，他大可以起类似“9600万个神秘黑球”这种标题。

And and I think, you know, on the opposite end of what's the most exaggerated version of this, you know, he could have maybe gone, like, the 96,000,000 mysterious black balls.

我也说不上来。

I don't know.

但感觉那个标题真的写得恰到好处。

I think the the title's perfect.

但也可以反其道而行之，想想最无聊的版本是什么，然后确保我们别做成那样。

But you can also go the other way and go, what's, like, the most boring version, and let's make sure we don't do that?

对。

Mhmm.

其实那期视频讲的是洛杉矶如何保护它的水源。

Like, that video is actually about how LA protects its water supply.

所以，你你

So you you

那标题可就太残酷了。哦。

Which would have just been a brutal Oh.

对。

Yeah.

而且它的潜在受众面会小很多。

Title with a much smaller total addressable market.

你刚才说的是1.03亿次播放吗？

So you said a 103,000,000 views?

对。

Yeah.

假如我们当时说，比方说，我们作为反策略师入场。

If we had said, like, let's say we we came in and we were the anti strategist.

没错。

Right.

假设我们开家公司，专门让YouTube博主拿到尽可能少的播放量。

Let's say we start a company, our job is to get YouTubers the least amount of views possible.

我们会进去看看，心想，哇，挺有意思的。

We'd go in and we'd be like, oh, like, interesting.

要不我们把它标题改成，洛杉矶如何解决缺水问题？

How about we title it, like, how LA addresses its water shortage problem?

对。

Right.

哪怕是在拥有数百万订阅者的Veritasium频道上，这个视频可能也只有50万播放量。

That video on even Veritasium's channel with millions of subscribers might have got 500 k views.

不过有这个可能。

But with that maybe.

也许吧。

Maybe.

对。

Yeah.

用那个标题的话，能有一百零三万。

With that title of a 103.

哇。

Wow.

对。

Yeah.

这就制造出了好奇心缺口。

It opens up a curiosity gap.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得最关键的一点就是，我们需要制造一种好奇心缺口。

Which is like the most important thing is like we need a curiosity gap.

我觉得挺有意思的是，为了让观众能产生共鸣，我们在构思阶段其实可以借助一些特别棒的框架。

And I think what's interesting is we're starting to talk about I think for the audience to latch onto, like, there are some really interesting frameworks to start with when it comes to ideation.

比如，可以用最高级的说法。

Like, one is superlatives.

对。

So Yeah.

最快、最大、最小。

Fastest, biggest, smallest.

你在YouTube上经常能看到这类标题。

You see these a lot on YouTube.

我觉得这种最高级的词汇特别容易让人产生视觉联想，一下子就能抓住眼球。

And I think superlatives are really easy visual words to latch onto.

我觉得这点很重要。

And I think that's that's important.

对吧？

Right?

另一个是“对决”模式。

The other is versus.

对决是个经典套路。

Versus is a classic.

比如福特F-150对决Rivian。

Like, Ford n f one fifty versus Rivian.

对吧？

Right?

就是立刻把两样东西放在一起对比。

Like, immediately, you peg two things against each other.

然后我们刚才聊到的，就是经常提到的那三步法，也就是1块、10块、100块那个。

And then we just talked about, like, the three step that that we talk about quite a bit, the, like, $1, $10, $100.

对吧？

Right?

就是那三个步骤。

Those, like, three steps.

所以我觉得最关键的在于，Seth Godin 有句话讲得特别好，想要被看见，你得先学会去观察。

So I think you start to the most important thing, there's a Seth Godin quote that says, in order to be seen, you must learn how to see.

我觉得花点时间刷 YouTube，去拆解他们用的框架，这点很重要。

And I think spending time on YouTube just clocking what is the framework.

比如，他们在这个框架里用了什么手段来抓住我的注意力，这才是最核心的。

Like, what are they using in this framework to capture my attention is is the most important.

把它写下来。

And just writing it down.

心想，哦，挺有意思的。

Being like, oh, interesting.

世界上最小的X。

World's smallest x.

我见过多少次这种最高级的表述了？

How many times do I see superlatives show up like that?

对。

Yeah.

还有一个我们这几年经常用、也挺管用的方法，就是提供独家内容，或者让大家接触到一些普通人接触不到的东西。

Another one that I that I've been seeing a lot that we've had some success with over the years is like getting exclusive access or getting access to something that most people don't get access to.

比如有个爱尔兰的创作者，叫Dareta，特别棒。他拍的视频都是去调查一些秘密岛屿，或者是那些有污染的秘密军事基地。去那种地方还得戴防毒面具，特别有代入感。

So there's a creator, an Irish creator, shout out Irish creators called Dareta who does these videos where, like, he investigates these, like, secret islands or secret, like, military bases that have, like, pollution and, know, he has to wear, like, a gas mask when he goes there.

再举个例子，我们合作过Jesser，他是目前篮球领域最大的创作者。

Another example is like we work with the creator Jesser, who's the biggest basketball creator.

比如，他能拿到NBA的独家访问权，或者决赛的独家内容。

Like, he'll do like getting access to the NBA, getting exclusive access to the finals.

我们最近跟一个野生动物博主Forest Galante合作拍了一期视频，标题是《私人探访印度亿万富翁的隐秘野生动物保护区》。

We did a video recently with a wildlife creator called Forest Galante, and that title was called Private Tour of Secret Indian Billionaires Wildlife Sanctuary.

那期视频拿到了大概90亿次播放。

And that got, like, 9,000,000,000.

对，是90亿。

Billion.

十亿。

Billion.

全世界的人都看了。

Everyone in the world watched.

所有人都看了。

Everyone.

九十九亿次播放。

Nine nine billion views.

未来能达到90亿。

9,000,000,000 in the future.

还没到那一步。

Not quite yet.

但就是这种形式。

But like, it's that format.

比如对于可能正在听的观众来说，他们可能会想，哎呀，我可没法像那个印度亿万富翁的私人野生动物保护区那样获得独家访问权。

It's like even for maybe viewers listening, they'd be like, well, I don't have exclusive access to like an Indian billionaire's private wildlife sanctuary.

对。

Right.

但就是说，也许你能接触到一些别人接触不到的东西，或者能展示一些别人展示不了的内容。

But it's like maybe there's some things you get interesting access to or you can showcase that other people can't.

其实我想回到我们最初的话题，就是创作者在2025年及以后如何脱颖而出。我觉得，明确自己的竞争优势比以往任何时候都更重要。

And actually I think going back to like our original points of like how do creators stand out in 2025 and beyond, I think it's becoming more important than ever to just lock in what your competitive advantage is.

是的。

Mhmm.

对于我们要合作的每一位客户，我们内部其实都有份文档，专门记录他们的竞争优势是什么。

And for each of the the clients that we work with, like, we actually have it internally in a document, which is like, what is their competitive advantage?

比如，我们觉得是什么让他们能做出别人做不了的东西，或者创作出别人无法复制的内容？

Like, what do we see as the thing that makes them be able to make something or create content that other people can't make?

我觉得很多人第一反应就是，哦，是因为有钱。

And I think a lot of people just go to, oh, it's money.

或者是觉得是因为有资源、有渠道之类的。

Oh, it's like access or these things.

没错，这确实可以成为竞争优势，但很多时候，它其实是某种独特的经历，或者是你在某个领域拥有的、别人无法替代的专业话语权之类的东西。

And yes, that can be a competitive advantage, but quite often it's just like unique experience or like a unique authority to speak on something that other people can't speak on and things like that.

所以，你知道的，任何拥有独特视角的人都是如此，就像我过去在YouTube上做的内容一样。

So, you know, anyone that's actually an interesting point with, like, even with the content I used to make on YouTube.

我以前做的那些深度解析视频，反响真的很好。

When I used to do these breakdown videos, they did really well.

但从技术上讲，其实谁都能做这类视频。

But technically anyone can kind of make those.

对。

Yeah.

但如果我拍个视频，讲讲我怎么帮客户拿到一千万播放量，或者我们合作的客户每年光靠YouTube就能赚两千万之类的，这世上能真正这么说的人估计没几个。

But if I make a video talking about how I got 10,000,000 views with clients or how, you know, we work with clients that do 20,000,000 a year in revenue or something directly from YouTube, there's probably only a handful of people in the world that can actually say that as well.

我也觉得，就算你没有钱或者特殊渠道，假设你走的是个人经历和个人知识路线，靠标题、封面和概念来吸引人，有时候这种内容本身就能制造出一种张力，让观众忍不住想：我得看看你这个专家到底靠不靠谱。

I also find that even if you don't have the money or the access, and let's say you're going with a title thumbnail and a concept that's more about your personal experience and your personal knowledge, sometimes that adds enough tension in itself of like, let me see if I believe you as an expert.

比如，这里有一招鲜，教你怎么提升健身效果之类的，随便举点例子。

Like, here's 10 things you can do to, like, improve your fitness or something or whatever.

我知道这类视频挺多的，但偶尔我也会刷到一条。

Like, I know that there are a lot of those types of videos, but occasionally, I'll see one.

我就会想，行吧。

I'll be like, okay.

这条视频里确实有种张力，让我忍不住想点进去，看看我到底信不信你的专业度。

There's actually tension here that's gonna make me click because I wanna see if I believe your expertise.

有时候，光靠这一点就足以把你吸引进来了。

Sometimes, like, that itself will bring you through the door.

你觉得列表类内容怎么样？

What do you think about lists?

比如六个理财建议，或者六个你知道的……你觉得列表类内容怎么样？

Like, six financial tips or six you know, like, what do you think about lists?

Ali Abdall 挺喜欢用列表形式的。

Ali Abdall is, like, a very forward list man.

对。

Yeah.

阿里，如果你能听到，希望你喜欢我把你称为‘列表达人’。

Ali, if you're listening, hopefully, you like that I called you a list man.

但他自称是‘前瞻性列表达人’。

But he he refers to himself as a forward thinking list man.

我的意思是，他跟我们说，一个YouTube视频就是一个标题加缩略图，再加上列表。

So he I mean, he said to us, was like, a a YouTube video is is a title thumbnail on a list.

我觉得这个观点挺有意思的。

And, I thought that was a really interesting perspective.

你觉得那种带列表的标题框架怎么样？

What do you think about, like, titles with like, a title framework with a list in it?

我觉得，如果你展示的那些内容对你的细分领域来说既独特又有趣，那就很好。比如，假设你做的是金融领域，你做了一个视频，讲的是七个理财建议，用来增加你的财富。

I think if the items you're, like, showcasing are feel unique and interesting for your niche, so if you're, let's say, in the finance niche, and you made a video which is like seven money tips, you know, to grow your wealth.

这种内容可能有点泛泛而谈，比较宽泛，而且很可能很多人以前都讲过了。但如果你说的是七个被低估的储蓄技巧，或者是前百分之一的人都在用、而你却不知道的理财建议，那就不同了。

It's kind of a bit generic and broad and probably lots of people covered it before, but if you say like seven underrated saving tips or seven money tips the top 1% are using that you don't know.

所以就像……

So like

对。

Yeah.

我觉得没什么问题。

I think there's nothing wrong.

我觉得那种结构清晰的列表式内容真的很有效，而且观众看起来也很轻松。不过，如果条目数量比较少，比如三到十个左右，内容一定要足够独特。

I think the actual formative list in listicles is is really effective and it's very easy to consume as well, but I think if it's a low number, so like between like three things and like 10 or 12 things, I want there to be a really unique thing.

如果条目数量特别多，有时候内容反而会比较泛，因为一下子塞了太多东西进去。

If it's a really big number, sometimes that can be just like a bit more generic because you're just getting so much in one video.

所以你会看到那种视频，比如‘我在40岁之前学到的40条人生建议’之类的。

So you see these videos which are like 40 pieces of life advice I learned before turning 40 or something.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

你会看到那种节奏特别快的、关于人生建议类型的短视频。

You see these like real quick fire like life advice type videos.

我是说，我也一直觉得清单类文章挺不错的。

So I mean, even I always think about listicles as well.

如果你的清单类视频在10条以内，我觉得你可以把它看作更像是一个拼图，而不只是一个简单的列表。

If your listicle is like under 10, I think you can start to see it as less of just a listicle, but more of like a puzzle.

所以我以前看自己的YouTube视频时，也是这么想的。

So I actually looks used to look at my YouTube videos like that.

我会说，我是在抛出一个问题：这位创作者是怎么涨粉这么快的？

I would say, I'm posing a question, how did this creator grow this fast?

而我的清单类视频，基本上就是每段视频都跟着那三个步骤走。

And my listicle is basically every video followed like the three steps.

以前大家还爱拿这个开玩笑。

The people used to like joke about it.

他们常说，帕迪的四步公式，帕迪的绝妙策略。

They're like, Paddy's four step formula, Paddy's genius strategy.

基本上每个视频都采用列表形式，但更像是一个拼图列表。

And basically every video would follow a listicle format, but it was like a puzzle list.

你需要把各个部分拼在一起，才能看到全貌。

So you'd piece pieces of the puzzle together to give the full picture.

所以我会说，这个创作者是怎么火起来的？

So I would say, how did this creator grow?

比如说，MrBeast是怎么火起来的？

Let's say, did MrBeast grow?

然后我会说，好，以下是促成他成长的不同因素。

And then I'd be like, alright, here are the different components that led to his growth.

接着我的视频结构就会把这些点串联起来。

And then the structure of my video, would connect those points together.

所以我的思路是，他第一步做了这个，但如果没有接下来要聊的那个关键点，这一步其实讲不通。

So I'm like, the first thing he did was this, but without this other thing that we're gonna talk about next, it wouldn't have made sense.

接着我们讲这个，再讲这个，再讲这个，这样观众就能把全貌拼出来，而不是像那种只问‘MrBeast是怎么火起来的’的零散内容。

So next we have this, and then we have this, and then we have this, and we're piecing together the full picture for viewers instead of it being like, how did MrBeast grow?

随便给个建议，再给个建议，再给个建议，这样会显得有点乱，观众也跟不上。

Random tip, random tip, random tip, because that's like a bit chaotic and hard to to follow.

所以我觉得，把故事线融进列表式内容里是个很好的做法。对。

So it's like building a story into a listicle I really like, Mhmm.

不过，确实，这种形式挺管用的。

But, yeah, it's definitely a format that works.

我觉得你还可以明确这份清单是写给谁看的。

I also think you can define who the list is for.

我特别喜欢现在的 Speed 频道，他做过一个视频叫《适合酷极客的七款车》。

I I love this channel speed right now, and he'll make a video like seven cars for cool nerds.

没错。

Right.

那种张力以及吸引力就来自于此，比如‘25美元以下适合酷极客的七款车’之类的标题。

And and that's where like the tension and the interestingness comes from or like seven cars for cool nerds under $25 or something like that.

我们一直在谈框架，借鉴YouTube上那些行之有效的方法。

So we're talking a lot about, you know, frameworks, pulling from what works on YouTube.

我觉得挑战在于，任何事物都不是孤立存在的，所以你得顺应YouTube的生态。

And I think the the the challenge is nothing exists in a vacuum, so you do wanna fit into the world of YouTube.

你要让观众感到熟悉。

You wanna be familiar.

你还要让人有惊喜感。

You wanna be unexpected.

你得确保你的风格是独一无二的。

You wanna make sure it's unique to you.

一旦你找到了自己的路子，你会发现整个行业都会开始模仿你的视觉风格。

Once you find something, it is pretty common that your category will just adopt your visual language.

我觉得你的缩略图设计就是个很好的例子。

I think your thumbnail is a great example.

咱们的视频缩略图就是个很好的例子。

I think our thumbnails are a great example.

你去YouTube上找的话，很难找到哪个访谈视频的缩略图和咱们的风格差得很远的。

We are hard pressed to go on YouTube and see an interview that doesn't look kind of like our thumbnails.

尤其是在我们这个领域，那些视频的缩略图跟我们的做得一模一样。

And especially in our niche, they look exactly like our thumbnails.

顶多就是文字上的那个色块颜色稍微有点区别。我们截过很多跟我们撞款的缩略图，发现现在观众都很难分清哪个才是Colin和Samir的官方缩略图了，因为我们本人都没出现在缩略图里。

They might have a slight change in, you know, color on the on the box that goes over the text, but, you know, we screenshot a lot of thumbnails that look exactly like our thumbnails, and we recognize that it might be hard for our audience to even identify when it's a Colin and Samir thumbnail now because we're not in the thumbnails.

就是嘉宾加号，或者嘉宾加名字这样的格式。

It's guest plus, you know, quote or guest plus name.

那么你觉得，在方向上，你会建议频道怎么发展呢？也就是说，当你发现一个有效的模式后，该如何从这种状态中进化？

So what do you think in the direction of how do you advise channels to, yeah, to to to evolve from that when you found a format that works?

你已经基于这个模式建立了品牌，但现在却陷入了千篇一律的困境？

You've built a brand off of it, but now you're living in a sea of sameness?

这个问题问得真好。

That's a great question.

这是个挺大的决定，因为有时候会发生这种情况：你摸索出了一套非常成功、效果很好的形式，别人都在模仿，结果你反而因为想做出改变，被市场给逼退了。

It's a big decision because what I think sometimes happens is you have come up with a format that's really successful and that works really well, other people are copying it, and then almost like you get bullied out of the market by thinking of the change.

对。

Yeah.

这挺有意思的。我之前跟一些创作者聊过，问他们为什么要把缩略图的格式给改了？

Which is so funny, but I've talked to creators before and I'm like, why did you change the thumbnail format?

那套格式明明效果那么好。

It was working so well.

他们跟我说，圈子里其他人都在模仿我。

And they're like, everyone else in my niche started copying me.

但我说，这方法明明一直都很管用啊。

And it's like, but it never stopped working.

所以，你就任由那个只占百分之十市场份额的人把你挤出这个领域？我通常的做法是加倍投入，根本不在乎有多少人偷了我的缩略图风格。

So like you just kind of let like someone who had 10% market share bully you out of the niche, which I usually strive more towards just doubling down further, like I didn't care how many people, like so many people took my thumbnail format.

你看这个趋势图。

The graph.

对，那会儿真挺疯狂的。

Yeah, It was crazy.

而且我肯定，如果往回追溯的话，这个想法最初也是从某个地方或某个人那儿来的，并不是完全原创的，但确实是我自己的风格。

And also I'm sure like if I trace back, there was some source, some place where I originally had that idea from, like it wasn't a complete original thought as well, but it was my style.

很多人都在模仿，但我从来没觉得被冒犯过。

A lot of people copied it, but I never there was times where it got triggered.

我是说，我见过一个例子，那个人做的图表，脚本写得跟我一模一样，连背景音乐和过渡句都用的跟我一样，比如‘接下来’这种词，他们说的语气和节奏都跟我完全一样。

Like, I'd see, like, especially when there was one example where someone did the graph, their scripting was, like, identical to my scripting, and they even used, like, the same background music and the same, like, bridging sentences, like, but next up, like they said it the exact same way as me.

我当时就想，这也太离谱了。

I was like, this is ridiculous.

不过我觉得一般来说，除非这个形式真的不管用了，否则别停。

But I think generally, advise people unless the format is not working, don't stop.

所以如果你在想，嘿，我们的形式还没失效，别人在用也不代表我们要停，那我建议你别因为这个就放弃。

So like if you're sort of thinking like, hey, our format has not stopped working just because other people are doing it, I wouldn't stop because of that.

但我确实觉得，有时候关键是怎么在缩略图里加些小细节，让它一眼就能看出是我们的风格。

But I do think it's sometimes about like what are little things we can bring into the thumbnail that identify it as ours.

我觉得大家第一反应就是，左下角有个小标志。

I think people's mind immediately goes like, little logo on the bottom left.

确实。

Sure.

我不太喜欢那样。

I don't love that.

对。

Yeah.

比如，让别人来操作行不行？

Like can someone else work?

我觉得那样不太好。

I don't love it.

我脑子里总是第一时间想到那个。

My mind always goes there.

对。

Yeah.

我心里一直想着，求求你们把它去掉吧。

And my mind is always like, please take it out.

他总是回答，绝对不行。

And he always says, absolutely not.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

所以我不太喜欢这个，因为对没看过你们的人来说，哪怕你们粉丝量很大，仍然有庞大的新观众群体。

So I I don't love that because for everyone who hasn't seen you, which as big as you guys are, it's still like a huge audience that's never seen Of course.

对。

Yeah.

他们可能会觉得，嗯，这有点丑。不是说你们Logo丑，而是这种设计会破坏整体画面感，让人搞不清重点，而且显得杂乱，我不喜欢这种效果。

They're gonna kinda go like, oh, that's kinda ugly, not that your logo's ugly, they're gonna like, that kind of breaks up the image and I don't know what that is, and it kind of just adds busyness that I don't like.

所以我一直觉得，缩略图的品牌感应该更简洁，比如统一文字颜色之类的。

So I always think of like thumbnail brand as more like, you know, could be color of text.

我见过很多人把复制品做成那种黄色，或者是文字的颜色、字体，甚至有时候我会想，连嘉宾穿的T恤颜色都要考虑，这真的很难控制，不过在缩略图编辑的时候或许能掌控一些。

I've seen a lot of people like copier in sort of yellow color, but could be color of text, it could be font, it could be just like sometimes I think about even the t shirt or color that the guest is wearing, like it's difficult to control, but maybe in the thumbnail edit you can control it.

但总的来说，我觉得关键就是努力屏蔽掉那些杂音。

But overall, I think it's just about trying to drown out that noise.

作为创意人员来说，屏蔽杂音真的挺难的。

It's hard as a creative to drown out the noise.

确实。

Yeah.

创作者的思维其实是看看什么有效，然后重复那些有效的方法。

It's like the creator brain is actually look at what's working and repeat what's working.

而创意则是想，我怎么能做到与众不同？

The creative is how can I be unique?

有时候这两者会互相冲突。

And sometimes those are at odds with each other.

确实如此。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

确实，当创作者不再独特，淹没在一片雷同之中时，内心的创造力就会慢慢枯竭。

And it is it is the creative dies inside when you're no longer unique, when you live in a sea of sameness.

不过你说得对，作为创作者……

But the creator, you're right.

如果这套方法管用，大家也就觉得，哦，行吧。

If it's working, you're just like, oh, okay.

就继续做这件事。

Just keep doing that thing.

我觉得这话是你们之前说的。

I I think I took this from you guys.

你们可能几年前在播客里提到过，说有人是创作者，有人是传播者，这话特别打动我。

You said this on a podcast maybe years ago and it really resonated with me, where you said there's like artists and distributors.

是的。

Yeah.

创作者其实是一个连续谱系。

There's a spectrum of artists

还有传播者。

and distributors.

我脑子里经常想这个分类，试着去判断每个人在哪个位置。

I can't say how much I think of that in my head and try to fake and place where different people are on that that frame.

比如凯西，他可能就更偏向创作者那一端。

So maybe someone like Casey is really far on the artist side.

对。

Yeah.

像Jimmy这样的人可能更偏向发行商那一侧。

Maybe someone like Jimmy is more on the distributor side.

没错。

Yep.

你懂的？

You know?

想想我们到底属于哪一边，还挺有意思的。

And it's interesting to think where where we fall.

我觉得我可能更偏向发行商那一头。

Like, I know that I fall probably further on this on the distributor side.

我心里有一部分确实有创作的冲动，总想保持原创、新鲜感，拿出全新的东西。但另一部分又在想，如果想做可持续的事业、把公司做起来，这就好比一个乐队，如果在某个流派里有一首歌卖得特别好，这时候你非要换个风格、彻底转型，那除非你是坎耶·韦斯特，能成功；否则就像其他那些艺术家一样，

And there's a part of me that has that creative inclination and wants to like always like be original and be fresh and come with completely new things, but there's another part of me which is like, hey, like, if we want to build something sustainable and build a business, it's like, if you're a band and you have a record that sells really well in a certain genre, and then you say, want to be different and switch the genre altogether, you could be Kanye and it could work, or you could be all the other artists that like

帕迪刚才提到的那些特立独行的艺术家。

Wild artist call out from Paddy.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我想如果你是像 Kanye 那样的人，那确实行得通，直到行不通为止。

I guess if you're Kanye, it works until it doesn't doesn't work.

对。

Yeah.

时机不太合适。

Not the best time.

不过，确实是这样。

But but, yeah.

其实，Frank Ocean 也是个特别有意思的例子。对于不了解我们讨论的那个光谱的人来说，我和 Colin 提到的这个光谱，是从艺术家到发行商的 continuum。

Actually, Frank Ocean is a really interesting example there too of, like so for people who don't know the spectrum that we're talking Colin and I talk about this spectrum of artist to distributor.

发行商就像那种电影制片厂的高管，心想：‘咱们得再拍一部蜘蛛侠，毕竟蜘蛛侠能吸引观众走进影院。’

The distributor is like the studio studio movie executive who's like, we gotta make another Spider Man because Spider Man puts butts in seats.

所以继续拍下一部蜘蛛侠呗。

So keep making another Spider Man.

艺术家那边就是，我想拍什么就拍什么。

The artist is like, I'm gonna make whatever I want.

我才不在乎有没有人看呢。

I don't care if people see it.

我觉得创作者大概得往发行方那边靠，占七成五左右吧。

And and I think creators have to live, like, probably 75% towards distributor.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得我大概处于中间位置，这还挺让人头疼的。

Like and I think I live somewhere in the middle, which is challenging.

比如，如果你更偏向艺术创作那边，可能就会遇到像Emma Chamberlain那样的人，她可能直接就不想干了。

Like, the more you push over towards the artistic side, you might even have someone like an Emma Chamberlain who just, like, doesn't wanna do it anymore.

对。

Yeah.

你懂的？

You know?

就是，我不想再玩这种游戏了。

Just like, I don't I don't wanna play this game anymore.

所以这确实是个挺有意思的平衡点，介于策略和创意之间。

So it's an interesting it's an interesting middle ground between like strategy and and creativity.

你知道有什么对我特别有帮助的吗？这其实也呼应了你之前提到的一个观点，就是打造一种让人能连续观看的格式，这样他们看完一个，接着就能看下一个。

You know what's something I find really helpful with this is, and it actually goes back to a point you brought up earlier in this conversation as well about like building almost like a bingeable format, so they watch one and they can watch another.

对。

Right.

所以我喜欢用一个叫作“80%法则”的框架，但这可不是那个经典的帕累托80/20法则，不是说我们每次上传都要争取吸引80%以上的观众。

So I like to think of this framework that I call the 80% rule, but it's not like the classic Pareto principle 80% rule, which is like we should aim to interest 80% plus of our audience with every upload.

听起来好像挺基础的，但用它来诊断频道问题特别管用。你看一个频道，发现他们尝试了各种不同格式，比如一会儿玩这个游戏，一会儿玩那个游戏，虽然都在“电子游戏”这个大类别里。

That sounds kind of basic when you hear it said, but it's a great way of diagnosing problems with the channel because you look at a channel and you see them doing all these different formats, and you're like, you know, you're let's say you're playing this video game, then you're doing this video game, then this video game, and they're they all fall within the category of video games.

所以你可以说，我做的是电子游戏领域，但地球上同时玩这三款游戏的人，比例肯定小得可怜。

So you can say, I'm in the video game niche, but, like, the percentage of people on planet Earth that play all three of those games is probably very, very small.

对。

Mhmm.

你明白吧？

You know?

同样的道理，比如我们看红牛这样的品牌频道，他们涵盖的运动项目五花八门。

And it's the same even, like, when we went into, a brand channel like Red Bull, like, have all these different sports.

滑雪、单板滑雪、篮球、F1赛车，全都有。

They have, like, skiing, snowboarding, basketball, Formula One.

地球上真正同时喜欢并参与所有这些运动的人，其实少之又少，大部分还是红牛自己员工。

And, like, there's very few people on earth, and most of them work at Red Bull who actually enjoy and do all those things at the same time.

所以我一直说，80%策略的核心是瞄准80%的受众，但另一半关键是——要持续80%的时间。

So I always say the 80% strategy rule says you should try to aim 80 of your audience, but the second part of it is 80% of the time.

也就是说，每期视频都要尽量覆盖80%以上的共同受众，而且要持续这么做，占到总内容的八成。

So you try to aim to interest 80% plus overlap with your audience in every video, but you do that 80% of the time.

所以你可以每做五个视频，就挑一个来尝试点不一样的，打破一下这个规则。

So you get one in, let's say, every five videos that you can just try something different and go and break that rule.

我觉得这就是创新的地方。因为有些频道只会死磕某一种格式，榨干了之后，一旦这种格式过时了，他们就找不到过渡到下一个方向的桥梁了。

And I think that's where you kind of innovate because if you just there are channels that just focus down on like milking a certain format so much that then when that format dries up, they don't really have a a bridge to cross to go to another place.

不过从策略角度来说，我确实更倾向于把某个点子吃透，而不是做得不够深入。

I will say from a strategy perspective, I'm always more in favor of milking something than under milking something.

比如有人可能会问：如果我把它做得太过了怎么办？

Like, someone's like, what if I milk this too much?

我的意思是，如果你不过度消耗这个点子，结果别人都跟着抄，那你岂不是白白浪费了这些……你知道的，

It's like, well, what if you don't milk it too much and everyone else copies it and you've just wasted all these, you know,

这些视频。我不会劝你停下来。

videos not gonna tell you to stop.

对。

No.

这点毫无疑问。

That's for sure.

对。

No.

美式橄榄球里有个说法，叫‘一直跑，直到他们把你拦住’。

There's a term in American football, which is run it till they stop you.

字面意思就是，只要这招管用，就一直用下去，直到对方防守成功为止。

Which literally means run the run the play until they can like, run the ball until they stop it.

因为如果这招有效，那就继续这么干。

Because like if it's working, just keep doing it.

对。

Yeah.

对我们来说，我是说，你刚才提到要尝试新东西。

For us, I mean, you you talk about experimenting.

我们一直觉得，做创作者既要有稳定的产出引擎，也要留出尝试的空间。

We always say that, like, you should have an engine as a creator, and you should also have room for experimentation.

对我们来说，这档节目就是那个引擎。

For us, the show is the engine.

对我们来说，它很稳定。

Like, it's consistent for us.

我们可以定期发布。

We can put it out on a regular basis.

然后我们开始设定一些目标，比如，你知道的？

And then we've started to actually set goals of like, oh, you know what?

我们想每季度做一期完全实验性的视频。

We wanna do one video a quarter that is a total experiment.

对。

Mhmm.

这样我们就能在年底回顾一下，确保我们既保持了那套行之有效的核心内容，又去尝试探索频道未来的可能性。

And that way we can look back on the year with some structure to that, to make sure we're doing both, you know, the engine that we know works and experimenting to see, like, maybe what the future of the channel could look like.

是的。

Yeah.

不过我能问你个问题吗？

But can I ask you this?

做这个实验的时候，你是会拿它跟其他视频的成功数据做对比，还是把它单独来看？

With that experiment, are you going to measure it against the success of your other videos, or are you gonna view it in isolation?

这个问题问得真好。

That's a really good question.

因为在我看来，这其实是目前最大的问题，甚至包括YouTube的排名机制，很多人想把它改掉。

Because this is the biggest thing I see as a problem with like even YouTube's ranking system, which a lot a lot of people wanna get rid of.

我个人其实挺喜欢那个排名机制的，但你知道，它终究是为了最大化播放量。

I still like the ranking system personally, but you know, again, the view maximizer.

只要能给到我数据，我就绝对不会删掉。

Don't anything that gives me data about I definitely don't wanna get rid of it.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这很重要。

I think it's important.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这很重要。

I think it's important.

我记得有位电影高管说过，哪天我不再在意票房数字了，那就是我该退出这行的时候。

I think that there's a quote from a movie executive who said, the day I stop caring about the box office numbers is the day I should be out of the business.

没错。

Yep.

我对那个排名机制也是同样的感觉，哪天我不再在意那个排名了，我就该收手了。

And I've I I always feel that about the one of 10 ranking of, like, the day I stop caring about that is the day I should be out.

因为这就是规则。

Because that is that's the game.

对，这就是我们玩的规则。

Like, that's the game we're playing.

如果你不在乎这套规则，那你就不该参与。

And if you don't care about that game, then you're you're not in it.

是的。

Yeah.

你懂的？

You know?

也许你已经对它失去热情了。

And you you you might have fallen out of love with it.

这确实挺让人难受的。

It is painful.

这个游戏确实让人痛苦，但你必须得热爱它。

It's a painful game, but it's it's, you have to love it.

我觉得对我们来说有点难，因为我通常都很清楚这些实验最后会成功。

I think for us, it's a little bit difficult because I generally always know the experiments will work.

确实。

Sure.

因为这些都是纪录片形式的幕后花絮，主角要么是吉米，要么是马克·罗伯，或者是其他一些大博主。

Because they are documentary long form behind the scenes, with either Jimmy or Mark Rober or some big creator.

对。

Yeah.

而且画面感很强。

And it's visual.

就是专门设计出来给人看的。

Like, it's made to be watched.

没错。

Right.

在电视上播放。

On TVs.

它的目的就是让人一看到就想点进去。

It's made to be clicked on immediately.

而我知道，一个三小时的播客节目，可能一开始不会有那么快的传播速度。

Whereas I know a three hour podcast episode is probably not going to have that initial velocity.

对吧？

Right?

所以我觉得对我们来说，这确实有点难。

So I think for us, it's it's a little bit difficult difficult.

也许这是个问题。

Maybe that's a problem.

比如，如果你觉得自己的实验都稳操胜券，那或许该试试那些让你觉得‘行吧’、稍微有点不适感的项目。

Like, maybe if you feel like all your experiments are you already know they're gonna work, maybe you should try something that you're like Yeah.

稍微让你感到不那么自在一点的。

A bit more uncomfortable with.

我觉得有意思的是，我注意到创作者们总是这样，大家都觉得这不过是个实验。

I think the interesting thing I I always notice with creators, and it's just like we're all like this, but someone's like, this is an experiment.

这算是一次实验。

It's an experiment.

是个新鲜玩意儿。

It's something new.

我们还不知道效果会怎样。

We don't know how it's gonna do.

你懂的。

You know?

然后他们把视频上传上去，结果评分是8分，但他们却觉得像是搞砸了。

And then they upload the video, and it's an eight out of 10, and they're like, disaster.

换张缩略图。

Change thumbnail.

再换张缩略图。

Change thumbnail.

这到底是怎么回事？

What's happening?

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我的频道数据在下滑。

This is my channel is declining.

一切都搞砸了。

Everything's gone down the drain.

这游戏被操纵了。

It's a rigged.

YouTube被操纵了。

YouTube is rigged.

这游戏被操纵了。

It's a rigged

游戏。

game.

然后就像，

And it's like,

大家，我们之前说过这是个实验。

guys, like, we we said this was gonna be an experiment.

我得处理这种情况。

Like, I have to deal with that.

我的工作之一就是跟情绪化的创作者打交道。

Part of my job is working with creators who are emotional people.

我也挺情绪化的，但关键是要安抚他们，告诉他们我们早就预料到这视频数据不会太好。我知道这话听着不太让人安心，不过创作者有个小窍门：上传视频前，拿个 Google 表格或者备忘录，给自己预估一个分数，满分十分的话，你觉得这视频能得几分。

I'm an emotional person as well, but, like, it's like calming them down and being like, we knew this was gonna underperform, you know, which I know is not the most reassuring thing to say, but, like, a thing, like a little hack that creators can do is before they upload a video, just get a Google Sheet, get a notes app, and just give a prediction for where you think it's gonna come out of 10.

我管这叫预期结果，就是咱们觉得这视频大概会表现成什么样。

I call it like an expected outcome, like where do we think this video is gonna fall?

你得结合自己的直觉，再参考一下以前类似视频的数据，给自己定个预期结果。

Have You to like use a bit of your gut, bit of like, maybe previous data of how videos have performed before, but just give yourself an expected outcome.

所以当你上传视频后，如果笔记或表格里写的是预计能得八分，结果实际也是八分，那就说明表现符合预期。

So when you upload the video, if you have in your note or your sheet that it's gonna be probably run at eight out of 10 and it's an eight out of 10, it's performing as expected.

它并没有表现不佳。

It's not underperforming.

但你想啊，如果一家公司推出了一条新产品线，这相当于做了一次YouTube视频实验，然后拿它跟自己的主打产品做对比。

But But it's like, imagine a business launches a new product line, which is the equivalent of a YouTube video experiment and compares it against their flagship product.

他们肯定会觉得，这表现也太差了吧。

They'd be like, this is performing terribly.

我们当初干嘛要搞这个？

Why did we ever do this?

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这简直是一场灾难。

This is disastrous.

但如果他们拿它跟其他新产品，或者该产品刚推出时的表现来做对比，他们可能会觉得，哎，这里面好像有点门道。

But if they compare it to, like, a new product or how that product performed when it first came out, they might be like, actually, there's something here.

我觉得如果评分是五分，那就算大成功了。

I think if it's a five out of 10, it's a big hit.

对。

Yeah.

明白吗？

Know?

没错。

Right.

我们得看那么长的时间跨度，但现实是做不到。

We have to look on such long time windows, but we're not able to.

对。

Yeah.

是吧？

Right?

毕竟如果把这看作一种投资，新格式其实就是对未来的投资。

Because like if if that's an investment, a new format is an investment in the future.

所以我觉得我们也开始重视那些 anecdotal 的反馈了，这些反馈其实挺难量化的。

So I think we also have started to value anecdotal feedback, which is really intangible.

比如，我们发了那个视频之后，是谁主动联系我们的？

But, like, who reached out after we made that video?

是谁把消息发到我们的收件箱里的？

Who was in our inbox?

是谁给我们发了私信的？

Who DMed us?

还有，我们在活动现场的时候，大家都在聊哪些期节目？

Who when we're out at an event, what episodes are they talking about?

对吧？

Right?

比如去年我们做了一期关于《Hot Ones》的节目，聊到他们被收购的事，还有我们的一些预测和看法。

Like, last year, we made an episode, about Hot Ones and about, like, the, them going up for sale and kind of some of our predictions and our thoughts on it.

这虽然不算我们播放量最高的视频，但却是那年讨论度最高的。

It's not our biggest video ever, but it's it was the most talked about of the year.

它引发了最多的讨论，这是我们非常看重的一个指标。

And it created the most conversation, and that's a metric that we really value.

当然，还有一些经典的指标，就是刚才提到的那些规则所对应的数据，比如，好吧。

So, of course, there's the classic metrics that go alongside those rules that we just talked about where it's like, okay.

有人点击了吗？

Did people click?

你知道，就是点击率。

That's, you know, click through rate.

点击率高吗？

Did they have a high click through rate?

大家有看到最后吗？

Did people watch till the end?

平均观看时长。

AVD.

大家有没有接着看其他视频？

Did people watch another video?

对吧？

Right?

有没有什么回头客率之类的指标能跟这个挂钩呢？

Is there a returning viewer rate that we can connect to here?

那些数据肯定是有追踪的。

Those were obviously tracking.

但还有一种 anecdotal 的品牌反馈，我觉得有些创作者会忽略这一点。

But then there's the anecdotal brand feedback that I think some creators forget about.

比如，我们是在打造品牌，而这个指标取决于行业、同行或者大众对你的看法。

Like, we're building brands, and that metric comes from how the industry perceives you or how your peers perceive you or how the world perceives you.

我觉得品牌认知度非常重要，无论你是搭建媒体平台、打造个人品牌，还是像红牛这样的大型传统品牌。

And I think brand perception is something that is incredibly important when you're building a a media platform or like a personal brand or when you're now talking about blue chip, you know, major legacy brands like Red Bull.

在那种情况下，播放量可能不是唯一的考量因素。

Views might not be just the only thing that matter there.

红牛品牌的形象同样关键。

It's gonna also be like the perception of the Red Bull brand.

对吧？

Right?

而且这些指标有时候会互相矛盾。

And those those are sometimes can be at odds with each other.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，我作为那个2800万新视频的流量最大化者。

Like, maybe me as the view maximizer for that 28,000,000 new video.

你看，瞧瞧这个。

I'm like, look at this.

看看播放量。

Look at the view count.

看看

Look at

排名。

the ranking.

看看它比那百分之二十高出多少。

Look at the lead it has over the two out of 10.

两千万播放量的留存曲线还能保持得这么好，这太厉害了。

Look at the retention curve for 28,000,000 views to still hold this well, that's amazing.

但红牛的高管可能会说，你看看置顶评论。

But the executive at Red Bull might be like, look at the top comment.

上面写着

It says

对。

Right.

哇，也就只有红牛能搞出这么绝的操作，你懂的，全是这种评论。

Wow, only Red Bull would pull off something this great, you know, because that's all the comments.

没错。

Exactly.

所有评论都长这样。

All the comments are like that.

所以说，是的。

So Yeah.

有时候，我是说，那个视频里的评论截图就是一个很好的案例，说明了为什么品牌应该做YouTube。因为观众并不只是把它看作马克斯·维斯塔潘、无人机或者以前的长距离赛车。

Sometimes, like, I mean, the screenshots of the comments in that video is a great case study of why brands should be doing YouTube because it's just like people they don't just see that as Max Verstappen, drone, former long car.

他们看到的是红牛。

They see it as Red Bull.

就像，这是红牛为我们做的。

Like, Red Bull did this for us.

他们为我们带来了这一切。

They brought this for us.

这比两八千万次的广告曝光要珍贵得多。

That's And so much more valuable than 28,000,000 ad impressions.

这意味着人们真正融入了你的品牌和你的内容。

Like that is people living with your brand and living with your your content.

所以是的，我觉得你描述的这个点非常重要，但难点在于，我觉得很难去量化它。

So yeah, I think what you've described is really important, but the difficult thing is I think it's so hard for people to measure.

对。

Yeah.

所以你的意思是，你会去接触那些在活动中主动找上门的人之类的。

So you're saying like you go to people like people that come to you at events and stuff like that.

没错。

Mhmm.

就是很难量化。

It's just hard measure.

它更像是一种感觉。

It's just like a feeling.

对。

Yeah.

真的很难量化。

It's it's very hard to measure.

也没有对应的企业KPI来考核。

There's no like corporate KPI against it.

这更像是一种直觉。

It's just like a feeling.

对。

Yeah.

你得小心，别让这种直觉影响你太多。

You have to be careful to let that sway you too much.

别光看反馈。

Don't let the feedback is.

你也可以直接找个粉丝，他说特别喜欢那个视频。我是说，我们刚做YouTube那会儿，只要有人告诉我们他喜欢那期视频，我们就会说，赶紧再做一期类似的。

You could also just have a dude who's like, I love that vid I mean, when we were first starting on YouTube, anyone who told us they loved that one video, we're like, let's make another one of those videos right now.

就像咖啡店那个哥们说的，他挺喜欢的。

Like that dude at the coffee shop said he liked it.

我以前在做一个挺大的Minecraft频道工作时，我们有个Discord服务器，里面大概有二十到三十万粉丝。

When when I used to work with the quite large Minecraft channel, we had a Discord server with maybe like two or 300,000 like fans in this Discord server.

我们还专门设了一个频道，用来收集视频创意。

And we had an individual channel, which was, like, contribute with video ideas.

你可以想象一下，有这么多人看我的世界视频，观众还会贡献视频创意，每天大概有五六十条。

So imagine all these, like, people watching this Minecraft content, like, audience contribute with video ideas, and it would be, like, 50 or 60 a day.

所以积累下来，每周你能收到几百个视频创意。

So, like, those buildups, you're getting hundreds of video ideas per week.

我不觉得我们真正采用过列表里的任何点子。这倒不是想忽视观众的意见，而是那些反馈几乎总是‘再拍一个类似的’，从来都不是真正有价值的信号。

I don't believe we ever made one from that list of people, and that wasn't to dismiss our audience's feedback, but it was nearly always do this again or like, you know, it was never actually like the signal.

不过有个点挺有意思的。如果YouTube的员工在听，我之前跟你提过，但我真的很希望有这个功能。

But one thing that's interesting on this, and I maybe if there's like a YouTube employee watching, I've said this to you before, but like, I would love this feature.