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我们都听说过创作者经济正在飞速发展。
We've all heard about how fast the creator economy is growing.
现在的创作者比以往任何时候都多。
There's more creators than ever.
广告投入也比以往任何时候都高。
There's more ad dollars than ever.
具体来说，今年创作者经济的广告支出预计将达到430亿美元。
And to put some specifics to that, the creator economy is projected to reach $43,000,000,000 in ad spend this year.
所以现在当创作者确实是个好时机。
So it's a good time to be a creator.
但最近有一份报告调查了一千名创作者，发现近一半的人年收入不到一万美元。
But a recent report came out that surveyed a thousand creators and showed that nearly half of those creators make less than $10,000 a year.
那么，这些钱在创作者经济里到底流向了哪里？
So where is this money going in the creator economy?
今天这期《科林与萨米尔秀》我们就来深入聊聊这个问题。
That's something we're gonna dive into on today's episode of the Colin and Samir Show.
我们还会聊一下即将举办的大型媒体发布活动——好莱坞创作者峰会，5月28日在洛杉矶举行。
We're also gonna talk about our next big press publish event, the Hollywood Creator Summit coming to Los Angeles, May 28.
最后，今天我们请来了我们的撰稿人西德·科恩。
And lastly, we're joined by our writer, Sid Cohen.
嗨，西德。
Hi, Sid.
嗨。
Hi.
你好。
Hi.
他手里拿着一把枪。
He has a gun.
西德，你这是在干什么？
Sid, what are you doing?
别这么说。
Don't say that.
这太离谱了。
That's crazy.
不可能。
No.
真的。
It's true.
他确实有。
He does.
真的没有。
No.
别闹了。
Stop it.
西德是我们节目的作家，也是负责Z世代报道的记者。
Sid is our writer and Gen Z correspondent.
西德，你多大了？
How old are you, Sid?
我二十五岁。
I'm 25.
再过三周我就二十六了。
I turned 26 in three weeks.
哦。
Oh.
对。
Yeah.
我离职了，所以保险也断了。
I'm off So the insurance
西德今天来参加节目，是因为我们在这期新增了一个板块。
Sid is here on the show because we are bringing a new segment to this episode.
如果你们喜欢，我们以后会继续做。
If you guys like this, we'll bring it back.
这个板块叫‘代沟’。
It's called age gap.
西德要给我们扔个Z世代的词儿。
Syd is gonna throw out a Gen Z term to us.
咱们得搞明白这个词儿，还得能给她讲清楚。
We have to get to the point where we understand it and can explain it back to her.
接下来节目里就会说到这个。
That is coming up on the show.
好的。
Alright.
西德，你来带我们进入本期内容吧。
Syd, bring us into this episode.
什么？
What
我该说啥？好吧。
am I supposed to Okay.
不对。
No.
不错。
That's good.
挺好。
That's good.
这个要收进去吗？
Is that going in?
对。
Yeah.
完美。
Nailed it.
是的。
Yeah.
但听起来就是这样的。
But that's what it sounds like.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Alright.
如果你这周花点时间刷推特，肯定看到过那些醒目的红色数字，旁边还跟着薪资和职位描述。
If you spend any time on Twitter this week, you saw big red numbers with salaries and job descriptions next to them.
那是《纽约客》的一篇文章，他们采访了60位纽约人，公布了他们的薪资情况。
This was the New Yorkers piece where they interviewed 60 New Yorkers about their salaries and how much they're making.
里面有些数字真的挺惊人的。
And there were some pretty astonishing numbers.
你看到那些了吗？
Did you see
我看了其中一些。
any of this?
我确实看到一些。
I did see some of them.
是的。
Yes.
据我所见，那些零工和更多蓝领岗位的收入，似乎比一般人想象的要高。
From from what I saw, it seemed like gig workers, and more blue collar jobs seemed to be making more than what people would assume.
没错。
For sure.
最让我惊讶的是那位在曼哈顿遛狗的人。
The one that stuck out to me the most was the Manhattan dog walker.
一年能赚九万两千美元，就靠遛狗。
Ninety two thousand dollars a year salary walking dogs.
对啊。
Yeah.
真是拼命赚钱啊。
Hustling.
得遛好多只狗呢。
A lot of dogs.
代笔写Substack文章，年收入十六万四千美元。
Ghost writer writing substack pieces, $164,000.
真的吗。
Wow.
这钱真不少。
Pay up.
还有一例特别突出，跟我们聊的话题特别相关：网红，年收入三十二万美元，其中二十五万来自品牌合作，六万是咨询收入，还有一万是卖衣服的收入。
And then one that that stuck out and is really relevant to this conversation, influencer, $320,000, which was broken down to $250,000 in brand partnerships, $60,000 in consulting, and $10,000 in selling clothes.
我们得认识一下这个人。
We have to know this person.
这听起来像是
This feels like
你觉得是这样吗？
You think so?
我觉得
I
是的。
yeah.
你知道几千美元的
Do you know thousand dollars in
等一下。
Hold on.
你知道纽约市有多少网红和内容创作者吗？
Do you know how many influencers and creators are in New York City?
你以为我们认识他们所有人？
What you think we know a 100% of them?
不。
No.
我猜我们认识这个人。
I'm assuming we know this person.
我觉得如果你是纽约的创作者，还能靠咨询赚六万美元，我猜你做的肯定是圈内咨询，我们大概率认识你。
I think if you're a creator in New York City and you do $60,000 worth of consulting, my assumption is that it's creator centric consulting that we probably know.
不是。
No.
我不觉得非得这样。
I don't think that's necess I think.
萨米尔，你知道，差不多98%的
Samir, you know, like, 98% of
我确实认识不少人。
the I do know a lot of people.
我不
I don't
我不明白你为什么这么反对
know why you're pushing back
这个。
on this.
对。
Yeah.
这说得通。
That's fair.
好吧。
Okay.
这说得通。
That's fair.
所以这一周，我们能不能承认西德在这儿？
So this this week Can we acknowledge that Sid's here?
我觉得她好像是想
I feel like she's trying
说话。
to talk.
我不明白为什么不说话。
I don't know why not trying to talk.
我只是
I just
得说点什么。
have to say something.
我以为你说的是播客。
I thought you said podcast.
你让我别说话的。
You told me not to speak.
我不被允许开口。
I'm not allowed to speak.
我就只能坐在这儿，穿着这件夹克。
I just had to sit here and wear this jacket.
你还让我穿得跟你一样。
I had to dress like you.
你根本就没在拍，他们也不在拍。
You they don't you're not even filming.
你说过要我穿得跟你一样。
You said dress like you.
我得穿上这件夹克。
I have to wear the jacket.
好的。
Okay.
西德，你解释一下。
Sid, explain yourself.
所以，西德，你给正规媒体写东西有多久了？
So you Sid, you've been writing with the published press for how long?
我几乎没写过。
I have been writing almost no.
现在已经超过一年了。
It's been over a year now.
去年，不对，上周才是我写的第一年。
Last year was last week was my year.
我在这儿待了一年，一直在写我们的通讯，但没赚到十六万美元。
So I've been here a year, been writing our newsletter, not making a $160,000.
那我记一下。
So making note of that.
而且
And
你可不是代笔作家。
Well, you're not a ghostwriter.
对。
No.
但关键是
But the way that
你得替好几个人写子专栏才行。
You have to write a bunch of people sub stacks for that.
明白了。
Okay.
所以我想问，这期节目
So I'm gonna go to Is this episode
变成现场直播了，这
turning into a live It's
现在是在现场谈判吗？
a live negotiation right now?
是的。
Yeah.
如果我们还想让你继续参与这期节目，我们就得重新考虑一些安排。
We're gonna have to we're gonna have to rethink some things if you want me to stay on the episode.
哇。
Wow.
她是认真的，而且所有人都走了，西德刚出去了。
And she's serious, and everyone's Sid just walked out.
西德走了。
Sid is gone.
明白了。
Okay.
嗯，西德，我坐在这儿，手里拿着一些之前我们报道过的一个故事的笔记。
Well, Sid, I am sitting here with some notes that I took around a story that we covered.
我觉得这个应该不是你的故事。
This I don't think this was your story.
可能是汉娜上周讲的那个，关于创作者能赚多少钱的事。
Think this was Hannah's story, maybe last week around how much money creators are making.
我想提一下这个，因为我和汉娜之前聊过这个话题。
And I I wanna bring this up because Hannah and I were having this conversation around it.
有一份报告，是家叫‘Influencer Marketing Factory’的公司做的，调查了一千名创作者。
There's this report that was done that surveyed a thousand creators from a company, I think, called Influencer Factory.
对。
Mhmm.
Influencer Marketing Factory。
Influencer Marketing
Influencer Marketing Factory。
Influencer Marketing Factory.
是的
Yeah.
他们调查了一千名创作者，发现有50%的人年收入不到一万美元。
And they surveyed a thousand creators and basically found that 50% of the creators reported earning under $10,000 annually.
16%的创作者表示年收入超过五万美元，只有5%的人说收入超过十万美元。
And 16% of the creators said they made more than 50,000, and only 5% said they made over a 100,000.
不过，这仅仅是一千名创作者的样本。
Now this is only a subset of a thousand creators.
但当汉娜和我讨论这个时，我说这完全不让我意外。
But when Hannah and I were talking about this, what I said is this does not surprise me at all.
这份数据感觉很真实。
Like, this data feels accurate.
我想提出这一点，是因为我们看到的新闻头条都在讲创作者经济的增长。
And I think the reason I wanna bring this up is because everything that we see in the headlines is around the growth of the creator economy.
今年，创作者经济的广告支出预计将达到439亿美元。
You know, right now, the creator economy is projected to hit $43,900,000,000 in in ad spend across creators this year.
但创作者年收入一万美金或更低，这听起来有点让人困惑。
But creators making $10,000 or under feels kind of confusing.
这跟那些标题传达的信息似乎矛盾。
It's it feels like a contradiction point to that headline.
我们还做了一个叫《创作者支持》的YouTube节目。
And we're also seeing so we we run a show on YouTube called creator support.
我注意到，我们收到了几百份申请，想上这个节目。
And I'm looking at we've hundreds of inbound requests to come on the show.
在浏览这些申请时，我发现这其实是个普遍现象。
And as I'm going through those requests, I'm noticing this is also a common theme.
很多人靠做创作者根本付不起账单。
That's like people aren't able to pay their bills
对。
Mhmm.
靠当创作者根本赚不到钱。
By being a creator.
我想聊聊这个，因为我对当前发生的事有很多想法，想说清楚我们到底在创作者经济中看到了什么，钱到底流向了哪里。
And I wanted to just talk about this because I I have a lot of thoughts on what is happening and just explaining what is what are we seeing in the current creator economy from where the money is going?
对。
Mhmm.
我知道你对这个有更最新的看法，但每当我听到这些数字，我就会想到马奎兹·布朗利说过的话，他说做创作者就像打NBA一样。
I I know you have more current thoughts about this, but when I hear these numbers, I think about what Marquez Brownlee told us, just about creators in general, is that it's kind of like playing in the NBA.
如果你想在创作者这条路上成功，你必须真的喜欢拍视频。
Like, if you are gonna make it as a creator, you have to be someone who just generally likes making video.
就像你想打进NBA，就必须真心热爱打篮球。
The same as if you're someone who's gonna make it to the NBA, you have to really love playing basketball.
不管遇到什么困难，你都得坚持做下去。
You have to do it no matter what.
最后能打进NBA、靠这个吃饭的人，比例其实非常小。
And a very small percentage of people at the end will be able to make it into the NBA or do it professionally.
我觉得做创作者也是一样的。
And I think creating is the same way.
我们做创作者已经十五年了，但真正能持续、专业地做下去，也就这几年吧？
We've been creators for fifteen years, really only doing it sustainably and professionally for what?
六年？
Six?
对。
Yeah.
大概是六年左右。
Probably six years.
你想想，要是早几年就问我们，我们早就把经验积累起来了。
I mean, think about how many years you could have you could have polled us, and we would have added to this.
是啊。
Yeah.
这话说得在理。
That's a good point.
这事儿真得花很长时间。
It takes a really long time.
我觉得有人会反对用NBA来打比方，因为我之前在晚餐时也跟人说过完全相同的话。
I think the argument against the NBA metaphor because I said this exact thing at dinner with someone.
这其实正是我一直想表达的，因为有人跟我提到，现在每个年轻孩子都想当创作者或者网红。
This is, like, what I've been talking about because someone brought up to me, oh, you know, like, every young kid wants to be a creator or influencer.
我说，确实如此。
And I was like, yeah.
但问题是，真正能成功的特别难。
But that's like it's really hard to make it.
他们就问，为什么呢？
And they're like, but why?
不是有无限多个位置吗？
There's infinite spots.
所以拿NBA来比，关键在于NBA的球队名额是有限的。
So, like, the the comparison to the NBA, the question is, like, there's capped amounts of of roster spots in the NBA.
但在我们这个圈子里，大家默认位置是无限的。
The assumption in our world is that there's uncapped amount of spots.
明白了。
Okay.
但其实并没有无限多个位置。
But there's not infinite spots.
并不是说这个领域一直在扩张，总会有新机会出现。
It's not like it's always growing, that there's always new spots.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，这跟NBA的阵容不一样，NBA的名额是固定的。
Like, it's not I guess it's not the same as an NBA roster where there's exactly a
就是这个意思。
set number.
没错。
The same.
但情况并不是这样
Because But it's not like
我我
I I
我明白。
hear you.
我懂你的意思。
I hear you.
你得从更广的视角来看职业篮球，看看人们怎么靠篮球赚钱，比如开篮球训练营，或者去海外打球，等等。
You'd have to you'd have to look at, like, the broader scope of professional basketball and different ways that people make money in basketball, like running basketball clinics or playing overseas and, like Yeah.
理解这些不同的方式。
Understand all the variety of ways.
但我觉得我首先想说的是
But I I think the first thing that I'm
我想这么说吧。
I guess I'll say this.
听好了。
Look.
像那种最后能赚十几万美元的，属于哪个层级啊？
Like, to to be in that category at the end that's making, what, over a 100,000?
是的。
Yeah.
在我看来，这跟NBA差不多。
That to me is akin to the NBA.
有个数据说，每一万名高中篮球运动员里，只有三个能最终进入NBA打上几年球。
There's a stat that like three out of every 10,000 high school basketball players get to play in the NBA at some point for a number of years.
你是说每十个人里有三个？
And I think like if you Three out of 10?
一万人。
Thousand.
一万。
10,000.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
也就是百分之零点三。
So point 30%.
百分之零点零三。
Point o 3%.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
我明白了。
I see.
我明白了。
I see.
是的
Yeah.
最终进了NBA。
End up playing in the NBA.
我明白了。
I got it.
所以我觉得，连续多年收入超过十万美元，这跟我心目中NBA的水平差不多。
So I think like to get in that side of the equation, the over a $100,000 for a number of years, that to me is similar to the NBA.
我觉得这样的位置没几个。
I don't think there's that many spots.
没有上限。
It's not capped.
对。
But Mhmm.
没有上限。
No cap.
谢谢，西德。
Thanks, Sid.
为播客增添了价值。
Adding value to the podcast.
很好。
Good.
西德，我没听到那部分。
Didn't hear that, Sid.
没有上限。
No cap.
创作者经济被宣传成一个非常民主的体系。
The creator economy is positioned as a very democratic system.
我确实觉得它是，但本质上还是个赢家通吃的系统。
And I actually think it is, but it's kind of a winner take all system.
意思是，一旦你成了顶尖的那一批，就会拿走大部分可用的资金。
Meaning, like, when you become one of the big ones, you consume a lot of the available dollars.
这其中很大一部分原因，在于我们看到越来越多的财富500强品牌和老牌大企业想要加入这场经济浪潮。
And a lot of that is because what we're seeing is this influx of major Fortune 500 brands, blue chip brands who want to participate in the greater economy.
他们坚信，只要和创作者合作，就能稍微减少广告投入，同时提升自己在文化上的影响力。
Their core belief is that they can reduce their ad spend a little bit, but increase their cultural relevance by working with creators.
现在这些大公司调整广告预算时，既渴望与创作者合作，又受不了太复杂的流程。
Now major Fortune 500 companies who are moving their ad spend, they have a high appetite to work with creators and a low tolerance for complexity.
看到这种情况，我就觉得，作为创作者，你得准备好接下我一千万的预算。
And when I look at that, that is then suggesting that you need to, as a creator, be ready to receive a million dollars from me.
但真正能接到一千万项目、有能力执行这么大手笔合作的创作者，其实少之又少。
Now the amount of creators who can receive a million dollars, who have the surface area to execute on a million dollar campaign.
我们正逐渐触及这个蛋糕里最微小的一块——能同时满足三个条件的创作者：有足够大的影响力、有足够强的品牌力，还有能对接大客户的组织能力。
Now we're starting to get to a very small sliver of the pie, Of how many creators can not only, a, have the reach to do that, b, have have the brand to do that, and then have the organizational infrastructure to work with a client to do that.
我觉得挺有意思的是，虽然内容越来越细分，但整个生态反而变得更层级化了，竞争的门槛却在慢慢拉平。
I think it's interesting that everything is getting more niche, and yet it's getting more stratified and the playing field is leveling.
你看，现在冒出好多媒体公司和创作者，专门针对非常小众、非常具体的受众群体做内容。
Like, you're seeing all these media companies, creators pop up that are speaking at very small audiences or more niche audiences.
这个数据是多少？
What's that stat?
百分之四十七。
47%.
你现在想要吗？
You want
现在？
that right now?
不需要。
No.
不用。
No.
这其实不相关。
That's actually not relevant.
明白了。
Okay.
不过现在大家都越来越垂直细分了，但企业投放的广告预算感觉反而变多了。
But everyone's getting way more niche and yet company dollars feel like like ad spend dollars feel like they're getting bigger.
所以，真能覆盖到那么大规模受众的人，其实寥寥无几。
So there is a really, really, really small portion of people that can speak to that large of an audience.
而创作者经济的大多数参与者，其实都是在做这种垂直细分的生意。
And the majority of the creator economy is like playing to this niche.
确实如此。
Totally.
为了证明这笔投入是合理的，我确实需要一定的规模
And to justify the spend, I kind of need some amount of scale
对。
and Mhmm.
要么有一定规模，要么有极高的相关性。
Some amount or extreme relevance.
但要把这笔必须花的钱分摊到50个账户上，作为营销人员，我也需要配备大量人手来操作。
But to then take that spend that I need to spend and spread it across 50 accounts, I also, as the marketer, need a lot of staff to do that.
我有没有足够的员工，还真不好说。
And I may or may not have that staff.
所以我觉得，关于资金来源，最值得关注的趋势就是像联合利华这样的控股公司。
So I think the most notable headline in this space around where money is coming from is holding companies like Unilever.
如果你在创作者经济领域工作，去年年底肯定都注意到了这一点。
So I think everybody saw this at the end of last year if you work in the creator economy.
联合利华计划到2026年，把一半的预算都投给创作者。
Unilever in 2026 has shifted 50% of their budget to creators.
来玩个游戏吧，科林。
Let's play a game, Colin.
我真受不了这个。
I hate this.
我知道。
I know.
对了，科林，大家别管他，他话筒没开。
Colin by the way, guys, off mic.
我经常跟科林玩这个游戏。
This is something I do with Colin all the time.
我会问，某公司的营销预算是多少？
I say, what's x's marketing budget?
你随便猜一个。
So just guess.
来，咱们猜一猜。
So so let's guess.
联合利华的营销预算是多少？
What's Unilever's marketing budget?
猜吧。
Guess.
总的营销预算。
Tot total marketing budget.
哦
Oh,
天啊。
god.
真希望你们现在能看见他的表情，他有多讨厌这个游戏。
I wish you guys could see his face right now and how much he dislikes this.
二百亿美元。
20,000,000,000.
你干嘛
Why would you
你怎么会猜二百亿美元？
why would you guess 20,000,000,000?
这完全不对。
That's so not
有意思。
fun.
这游戏。
This game.
好吧。
Okay.
来猜猜看。
So Guess.
这太侮辱人了。
It's so insulting.
等等。
Wait.
有人知道答案吗？
I'm Someone knows the answer.
现在我有点害怕了，因为这数字也太高了吧。
Well, now I'm scared because that seem, well, that seems way too high.
是的。
Yeah.
太离谱了。
That's crazy.
这并不
It's not
连玩都懒得玩了，算了。
even fun to Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
等一下。
Wait.
不行。
No.
你猜得太高了。
You guess way too high.
我来
I'll
就十亿。
just 1,000,000,000.
十亿。
Billion.
十亿这个数字也太离谱了。
1,000,000,000 is also offensive.
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
五亿是多少？
What 500,000,000.
不对。
No.
你猜三十七亿？
What do you 3,700,000,000.
这样也行。
That's okay.
西德猜得还挺靠谱。
Sid gave a respectable guess.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
我加了一点数。
I added in a point.
你得加上小数点才行。
You have to you have to add in some decimals.
是100亿美元。
It's $10,000,000,000.
哎呀，现在明白了，真厉害。
See see now Wow.
这太离谱了。
That's crazy.
你得一直回答问题。
You had to answer the whole time.
不是。
No.
但重点不是谁听起来最聪明。
But that's not the the thing is not who sounds most smart.
就是随便聊聊，猜猜答案是什么，挺有意思的。
It's just fun to conversationally go back and forth on what's the what's the answer.
只有当我们猜得远低于实际答案时才好玩，对吧？
It's only fun if we guess way lower than what the actual answer is Yes.
然后当答案远高出预期时，还能装出一副惊讶的样子。
That we can feign being surprised when it's way higher.
顺便说一句，这本来可以是你的地铁段子，你知道你其实讨厌这种猜谜游戏。
This could have been your subway take, by the way, just so you know, know, that you hate the guessing game.
我怎么没想起来。
Why I haven't Yeah.
你本来可以完美地讲个地铁段子的。
You had a perfect subway take.
为什么会
Why would
是我。
I I'm the one.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
是我需要这个。
I'm the one who needed it.
这本来可以是你的。
This could have been yours.
地铁猜想。
Subway take.
对。
Yeah.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
一百亿美元预算中突然新增一半投入实体经济，这可不是小事。
So 50% of a $10,000,000,000 budget newly, freshly into the greater economy is no joke.
拜托。
Come on.
这纯粹是猜谜游戏。
Guessing game.
百分之五十是多少？
How much is 50%
一亿美元的百分之五十？
of $10,000,000?
五亿。
Five.
所以有五十亿美元新资金涌入我们的行业，这意义重大得不得了。
So 5,000,000,000 new dollars coming into our industry, right, yeah, is extraordinarily significant.
这绝对是让人眼前一亮的头条新闻。
Like, that is a very sexy headline.
这真的让人很兴奋。
It's very exciting.
我觉得这非常合理。
It makes a lot of sense to me.
但要实际花掉五百亿美元，可不是件容易的事。
But to operationalize spending $5,000,000,000 is hard.
这并不像听起来那么简单。
It's it's not necessarily easy.
尤其是当
Especially when
你要是说，如果真要执行的话，得覆盖成百上千家小型媒体公司，
you're saying across, if they were to do it, across a ton of small media companies, basically,
或者独立创作者的话。
or independent creators.
我经常跟想进入这个领域的人说，他们总拿它跟初创公司比，但其实我们更像音乐产业，每个人的操作方式都是独一无二的。
I I think the thing that I I try and repeat often to people who wanna get into our space, who think about it like the world of maybe startups is, like, we are a lot more like the music industry than, like, the San Francisco tech industry, that we are all bespoke in how we operate.
我们每个人做事的方式都不完全一样。
None of us really operate exactly the same way.
所以当你去跟50个不同的创作者谈合作时，你会面对50种不同的创作者类型和50种不同的沟通方式。
So when you're going out to 50 different creators to do deals, you're gonna deal with 50 different types of talent and 50 different types of email communication.
我们在谈合作时根本没有统一的标准。
And there's no standardization across how we do our deals.
有时候会有经纪公司居中协调，让事情稍微简单一点。
Sometimes you have the agencies in the middle who are brokering the deals to make it a little bit simpler.
但我觉得这里的关键在于，为什么钱都集中在顶层，而不是分散到整个经济体系中？原因就在于这太复杂了——你需要花一大笔钱，但解决方案不可能铺开到成千上万的创作者身上。
But I think just the insight here of why is money concentrating to the top and not into the entire economy is because of the complexity of it, where you have a problem, which is I need to spend a lot of money, and the solution is not on thousands and thousands and thousands of creators.
更可能的做法是，只挑选少数几个创作者。
The solution is likely selecting a few creators.
举个例子，我不知道你有没有注意到，科林。
An example of this I don't know if you saw this, Colin.
马克·罗伯和里维安。
Mark Rober and Rivian.
你看到这个合作了吗？
Did you see this partnership?
我在Slack里分享过了。
I shared it in in Slack.
他啊？
Did he Oh.
他拿下这个项目了吗？
Did he win that one?
我们现在有个大
We have a big
我们可能已经……哦，我们有，能看到凭证。
We may we've oh, we have a We see can the receipts.
我们有个
We have a
大项目正在推进。
big thing going right now.
我发过了
I shared
在Slack里。
that.
现在很多人在Slack里重复发同样的内容。
There's a lot
大家重复发帖的情况太多了。
of people double posting in Slack.
我最担心的就是在Slack里发了别人已经发过的东西。
My biggest fear is posting something in Slack that has already been posted.
这事儿得记着，现在我们开始统计了。
It should be because now we're keeping count.
对，现在我们开始算账了。
Oh, you you Now we're keeping score.
是的。
Yeah.
你们先说了。
You beat us to it.
而且，确实有人重复发了，我就不点名了，但确实有人重复发帖了。
And actually, we have someone who I won't I won't dox them, but someone did double post it.
是在科林之后吗？
After Colin?
对，在科林之后。
After Colin.
哇。
Wow.
人肉搜索
Doxed
了他们。
them.
是戈尔巴乔夫。
It was Gorby.
把他加到积分榜上吗？
Put him on the should I put him on the scoreboard?
把他加到积分榜上。
Put him on the scoreboard.
好的。
Okay.
Rivian 和马克·罗伯合作。
So Rivian partners with Mark Rober.
是的。
Yeah.
我提起这个，是因为这正好说明了我所说的组织基础和合作空间。
So I I bring this up because this is a a great example of what I mean by, like, organizational infrastructure and surface area to partner.
马克和 Rivian 的合作，其实并不是马克·罗伯个人和 Rivian 的合作。
So the partnership with Mark and Rivian is is not necessarily Mark Rober and Rivian.
实际上是 CrunchLabs 和 Rivian 的合作，这很有意思，因为这个合作涵盖了从马克作为嘉宾，到带领参观他们的零售设施、为家庭提供工程教育项目，再到制作关于汽车未来和电动车技术的数字内容等一系列内容。
It's all it's CrunchLabs in Rivian, which is really interesting because, essentially, this partnership includes everything from, like, Mark as talent to going on a tour of their retail facilities and offering programming for families to come learn engineering, as well as digital content that teaches about the future of cars and EV technology.
这是一次涵盖内容、线下活动、人才和广告的全方位媒体合作。
So it's a robust media partnership across content, physical activation, talent, ads.
方方面面都包括了。
It is all things.
这让Rivian能够参与创作者经济，虽然投入不小，但却能接触到多个领域——从线下活动到数字内容，再到家庭科普教育，甚至让马库斯在SXSW现场与RJ同台，而他们也正是在那里宣布并推出这项合作。
And that unlocks the ability for Rivian to participate in the creator economy, but spend quite a bit and get a lot of access across different facets from live events to digital to family education, to Marcus Talent on stage at South by Southwest with RJ, which is where they're announce or launching this.
如果拆开来看，你的意思是，马库斯·罗伯对像Rivian这样的大品牌来说是个很合适的合作对象。
So if you break this down, you're saying that Mark Rober makes sense for a major brand
因为第一，他的受众规模很大。
like Rivian to partner with because number one, he has scale.
他的影响力很广。
He has reach.
没错。
Yes.
第二，他的合作维度非常多元。
Number two, he has a diverse surface area
没错。
Yes.
要把Rivian融入进去，不只是在主频道，看起来这里在Crunch Labs也有安排。
To integrate Rivian, not only maybe on its main channel, but it looks like here in Crunch Labs.
第三，他背后有个团队能处理这些事。
Three, he has an organization that can handle
他有合作伙伴，而且预算充足。
A partner like like spending.
他有专门的团队。
He has staff.
他之前也做过类似的事。
He has precedent for it.
他确实有经验。
He's Yeah.
他们在这上面的投入可能高达八百万到一千万美元。
Spending a couple maybe maybe they're spending $8,000,000 or $10,000,000 on this.
Crunch Labs 是一家完整的公司，目前大概有一百多人，专门负责这个品牌的运营。
Crunch Labs is a full company of probably, at this point, a 100 plus people who are able to service the brand.
如果我是个小型创作者，看到这么多大公司都涌入这个领域，而且去的还是我本来以为他们会去的地方，对吧？
So if I'm a smaller creator and I'm seeing that all these major companies are getting into the space and they're going to the places that I would assume they would go anyway, Right?
比如去 Marc Roeb 那种地方，我该从中得到什么启发呢？
To like a Marc Roeb or what am I supposed to take from that?
我觉得关键在于，你得把自己梳理清楚。
I think the takeaway is like you need to organize yourself.
我的意思是，你现在必须把产品线有条理地组织起来。
What I mean by that is like you have to have an organized offering of products now.
所以即使你没有很大的规模和覆盖面，至少可以做到井井有条，多点布局。
So if you don't necessarily have tons of scale and reach, you can at least be organized and you can have multiple surface area.
你是说在各个领域上都得有条不紊吗？
You need to be very organized in terms of areas?
对。
Yeah.
比如说，当有人找上门来，一个很好的例子就是那些专注于细分领域的每日直播节目，它们的覆盖范围正在不断扩展。
Like, when when when when someone comes to you, I think a great example of the expansion of surface area is in the niche casting daily livestreams streams that that are are happening.
确实如此。
Happening.
我们节目上请过TBBN。
Of course, we had TBBN on the show.
你知道那帮人，我们估计他们今年的广告收入大概有两千万美元，因为他们每天都有直播，屏幕上时刻都有赞助商露出，每天还会把片段分发到所有平台，每个片段上都有广告。
You know, those guys, we can we can estimate they're they're doing around $20,000,000 in advertising this year because they do a show every single day that has sponsors on screen at all times, that has clips that go out every day across all platforms with sponsors on them.
他们扩大了广告的曝光渠道。
They increased their sponsorship surface area.
他们的观众数量并不是最大的，但组织架构非常完善。
They do not have the biggest audience, but they have a lot of organizational infrastructure.
他们早期的一个关键举措就是请了一位总裁。
Like, one of their early moves was hiring a president.
对吧？
Right?
而且还需要有人能真正组织起来，收款、制作广告产品，并为这些广告主提供服务。
And somebody who can actually organize them to receive the money to create the ad products to then service these advertisers.
我一时想不起具体数字，但记得他们说一年有两千个广告位。
I'm blanking on the exact number, but I think they said they have 2,000 ad units a year.
是的。
Yeah.
大概是这个数。
It was something
对，差不多。
like that.
差不多吧？
Something like that?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
你知道，这只是一个例子。
You know, that's that's one example.
我知道这种小众选角领域最近发展得挺快的。
I know this niche casting thing is starting to grow quite a bit.
没错。
Totally.
很多人现在每天都在做直播，主要是为了和观众建立联系，同时也为广告创造更多曝光机会。
People are launching daily livestreams, I think, to create connection with the audience, but also to create more surface area for advertising.
但即使从最简单的情况来看，就我们目前来说，通过在YouTube上推出新节目，我们也扩大了广告的展示空间。
But even in in its simplest form, I would say with us right now, what what what we have done, we have increased our surface area through launching new shows on YouTube.
我们有个节目叫创作者支持。
We have a show called creator support.
这现在成了一个新的展示平台。
That is now a new surface area.
这也成了品牌可以参与的一种产品形式。
That is now an offering, a product offering for brands to engage with.
我们一开始当然还处于早期阶段，但已经推出了PUBLISH PRESS，作为新的曝光渠道。
We obviously early days, we did we launched the PUBLISH PRESS as a new surface area.
我们还举办了线下活动，并且已经宣布了今年五月在洛杉矶的下一场大型活动。
We have also launched our live events and have announced our next big live event here in LA in May.
好莱坞创作者峰会即将举行，待会儿我们会详细聊聊。
Hollywood Creator Summit is coming, which we'll talk about more in a second.
但我们确实拓展了更多的曝光渠道。
But we have increased our surface area.
这可不轻巧。
That's heavy.
做这些事儿得有个团队才行。
You need team to do that.
但最简单的方式，其实就是把你的产品和服务理清楚。
But I think the simplest form is just organizing what you offer.
如果你只是等着品牌主动来找你，说‘我们需要这个’，那你的收入大概只能在一万到五万美元之间徘徊。
You will live in the $10,000 to $50,000 range if you are just waiting for the brand to reach out to you and say, this is what we need.
我们需要这样的帖子。
We need a post like this.
我觉得这种广告方式正在慢慢消失。
I think that is like a dying breed of advertising.
你得对自己卖的东西有强烈的信念和清晰的看法。
I think you have to have a lot of conviction and perspective of what am I selling you?
我到底能为你提供什么？
What am I offering you?
这不只是简单地在视频里插个广告。
That is not just a integration into my video.
因为现在大品牌很难为这种做法买单。
Because that that is going to be very hard for big brands to justify right now.
没错，我愿意在你的视频里做植入，但还得同时在上千个创作者那儿都做一遍。
Like, yeah, I'll buy an integration into your video, plus I'll do that across a thousand other creators.
所以你的意思是，你应该准备好在多个平台上长期持续地提供内容。
So you're saying you should be set up to deliver something across multiple platforms over a longer period of time.
比如说，
Like, a
品牌找上门时，你应该能主动提出：嘿，
brand comes to you, you should be prepared to say, hey.
我可以为你提供为期三个月或六个月的深度整合方案，而不是一次性的合作。
Here's here's actually a three month or a six month way that I can integrate your brand instead of just a one off.
我可以提供一年独家品类合作。
Here's a category exclusive one year partnership.
这样你就能在我这里投入更多资源。
So you can spend more with me.
你明白吧？
You know?
因为我觉得一个问题在于，有时候创作者本身的产品容量有限，你根本没法增加投入。
Because I think one of the problems is, like, you literally sometimes with the creator, you you can't even spend more because they're capped in their product.
所以我认为，随着新品牌不断进入这个领域，创作者经济正在走向专业化。
So I think, like, the big thing is, like, the creator economy is professionalizing right now as the new brands come into the space.
广告是我们所有人赚钱最主要的方式。
Advertising is the number one way we all make money.
现在涌进来的广告主，特别愿意在创作者身上花钱。
And the types of advertisers that are coming in have a high appetite to spend with creators.
我们在和越来越多的创作者交流时发现，他们目前的产品方案还跟不上这种需求。
And I think the challenge that is being that is being illuminated as we talk to more and more creators is they don't have the product offerings to meet the demand yet.
我很好奇。
I'm curious.
你觉得我们最近看到的创作者广告公司激增，是不是直接跟这个有关？绝对是的。
Do you think the rise in, like, creator ad agencies that we're seeing is directly linked to this, like A 100%.
广告预算的大幅增长？
Increase in ad spend?
百分之百。
100%.
你说得一点都没错，西德。
You're exactly right, Sid.
我特别喜欢这一点。
Like I love that.
没错。
Yeah.
我觉得
I I I think
你就别停，继续说。
Keep saying that.
刚成立的那家创作者代理机构，Pufferfish，是Anthpo和Talia的公司。
The creator camp agency that just launched, the Pufferfish, which is Anthpo and Talia's agency
Unwell也有自己的代理机构。
Unwell has one.
Unwell确实有家代理公司。
Unwell has an agency.
这是因为现在不断有品牌找上门来，想给创作者投钱。
This is because there is basically people knocking on the door of creators trying to spend money.
对。
Mhmm.
有时候，你手头的媒体资源根本满足不了需求。
Sometimes you don't even have enough media properties to fulfill the demand.
所以你会为品牌定制解决方案，跟他们说：你看这样行不行？
So you create custom solutions for the brand to say, you know what?
我们换种方式来帮你解决这个问题。
We will solve this for you in a different way.
虽然没有对应的节目，但我们能为你专门拍视频。
We don't have the show for it, but let us make the videos for you.
我们来为你制作内容。
Let us make the content for you.
这在我们这个行业真是个特别的时刻。
So that it's it's a really unique moment in our industry.
我觉得值得继续探索，说白了，我们已经是广告行业的一部分了。
And I think it's one to to, continue to explore because plain and simple, like, are part of the advertising industry.
更好地服务这些客户，就能让更多的资金流动起来。
And solving how to service these clients better will result in more money getting distributed.
但我们的情况跟其他行业很像，钱最后都集中在顶层。
But we kind of mirror other industries where, like, the the money does concentrate to the top.
这周我有了一些这样的想法。
So those have been some of my insights this week.
1%。
A 1%.
我模仿一下伯尼·桑德斯。
My Bernie Sanders impression.
明白了。
Okay.
我们换个话题。
Let's shift focus.
洛杉矶，5月28日。
LA, May 28.
是的
Yes.
好莱坞创作者峰会
The Hollywood Creator Summit.
就要开始了
It's happening.
就要开始了
It's happening.
就要开始了
It's happening.
它就要
It's
开始了
happening.
真的要开始了
It's It's It's happening.
正在发生。
Happening.
这是标语吗？
Is that the tagline?
正在发生。
It's happening.
这是标语吗？
Is that the tagline?
好的。
Okay.
上次我们在节目中宣布活动或者提到这个活动的时候
So the last time we announced an event on this show or talked about
我们在节目中提到这个活动，
our event on the show,
我们特别担心会搞成一场“Fyre Fest”那样的灾难。
we had terrible fears that we were gonna throw a Fyre Fest.
你还记得吗？
Do you remember that?
当然记得。
Oh, yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不记得。
No.
我们以前从来没办过这么大的活动。
We had never thrown a big event before.
要在纽约城办一场500人的活动。
500 people in New York City.
去年一整年，直到九月，我每天都被一种持续不断的焦虑感压着，那种紧张程度简直让人喘不过气。
It felt like The anxiety I felt all year, last year, leading up to that event, was like this high grade constant anxiety until September.
那你现在感觉怎么样？
And how are you feeling now?
我感觉很棒。
I feel great.
太好了。
Awesome.
我特别兴奋。
I feel so excited.
我感觉也不错。
I feel good too.
是的。
Yeah.
活动期间我也感受到了那种持续的紧张感。
I felt that high grade anxiety during the event.
对。
Yeah.
很可能就是这样。
That's probably true.
是的
Yeah.
当时我感觉——我觉得
It was- I think
其实情况更糟了。
it got worse, actually.
我觉得我快撑不住了。
I think I was ready to snap.
是的
Yeah.
明白了。
Okay.
当理查德·布兰森出场后，我的那种感觉就消失了。
It went away for me once Richard Branson came out.
最大的意外时刻是什么
What's like the big surprise moment
这事儿确实挺好的，因为你那样做
on Good for that you because that
那是在前一天晚上。
was the night before.
那件事是第一个发生的。
That was the first thing that happened.
是的。
Yeah.
那确实是第一个发生的。
That was the first thing that happened.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
让我再解释一下，去年我们办活动时承受着巨大的焦虑，那为什么现在还要再办一次？
Let me explain why are we doing this again when we lived with terrible anxiety of throwing an event, last year.
活动结束后的第二天，我感觉特别棒，就想着再办一次。
The day after the event, I was like I felt amazing, and I was like, let's do it again.
如果你在活动前两天问我，我会说这绝对是最后一次办这么大的活动。
If you asked me two days prior to the event, I'd I'd say this is the one and only time we're throwing a big event.
我肯定也这么说过。
I'm pretty sure I said that.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我们还是要办。
So we are doing it.
这次会在洛杉矶办。
We're doing it in LA.
场地还不能公布。
We cannot announce the venue yet.
不行。
No.
很快就会公布。
We will be announcing that soon.
今天是5月28号。
It is May 28.
这次活动的主题是好莱坞创作者峰会。
The the theme of this one is the Hollywood Creator Summit.
我们想借此机会，看看传统媒体和数字媒体正在发生什么交汇——就像两周前我们聊过的Markiplier，他那部爆火的电影；还有Mark Rober上了Netflix，Jake Shane的播客也被Netflix买下了，这些事都在说明同一个趋势。
It is meant to acknowledge this moment of the convergence between, what's happening in traditional media, what's happening in digital media, the the subject matter we covered two weeks ago when we talked about Markiplier and his breakout movie success, the conversations even around Mark Rober and him going on to Netflix, Jake Shane and his podcast getting licensed to Netflix.
这两个世界之间，到底发生了什么？
What is happening between our two worlds?
我们怎么把来自这两个领域的人聚到同一个舞台上，聊聊娱乐产业的未来？
How do we bring people from the two worlds together in one place on a stage to have conversations about what is the future of the entertainment industry?
现在早就不是什么传统媒体和数字媒体之分了。
We've kind of arrived at the moment where it's not traditional and digital.
这根本就是一个完整的娱乐产业，我们得为这种现实创造一个认可它的空间。
It's just the entertainment industry, and we have to build a space to acknowledge that.
这正是这个活动想做的事。
That is what this event is about.
在洛杉矶举办这个活动特别有意义，因为那么多制作都搬离洛杉矶了。
It's really special to do it in Los Angeles because so much production is moving out of LA.
是的。
Yeah.
好莱坞早就不是原来的好莱坞了。
Hollywood is really not Hollywood anymore.
感觉完全不一样了。
It doesn't feel like it.
但与此同时，萨米尔，你和我看到的是一些像TBPN这样的创作者，他们依然在好莱坞的摄影棚里拍片。
But at the same time, what, Samir, you and I have been seeing are creators like TBPN who do fill sound stages in Hollywood.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
只是没人提这件事罢了。
It's just not being talked about.
是的。
Yeah.
比如说，我演过一部微型剧。
Or like, I acted in a micro drama.
我还没提过这事，但我演过一部在洛杉矶拍摄的微型剧。
I haven't even said that yet, but I acted in a micro drama that was shot in LA.
你正在让好莱坞重现生机。
You're bringing back Hollywood.
我正在把人带回来，只是没人提到这一点。
I'm bringing And back people aren't talking about it.
人们现在只关心周日的奥斯卡奖，但我们会看到，像萨米尔这样的微型剧会获得最佳客串提名。
People aren't about Oscars on Sunday, and we're gonna see Samir, microdrama nominated for Best cameo.
对。
Yeah.
最佳客串。
Best cameo.
他们可能会专门为我设立一个奖项类别
We're they're gonna make a category for I
我的意思是，看看其他那些事。
mean, like, look at other things.
奥斯卡颁奖典礼可能会在YouTube上举办。
Like, the Oscars are gonna be hosted on YouTube.
这会是一个很特别的时刻——每年好莱坞最标志性的时刻，居然在YouTube上播出。
That's gonna be a really interesting moment where, like, the signature Hollywood, you know, moment of the year is hosted on YouTube.
扎克·金刚发布了他的《侏罗纪公园》翻拍片，我们还参演了一部《星球大战》的短片。
I mean, Zach King, just released his his movie, the Jurassic Park remake, we acted in one of The Star Wars one.
对，就是那部即将上映的。
Yeah, one of the ones that's gonna be
是在伯班克全程制作的。
coming out, and that was a full on production in Burbank.
这些制作又在好莱坞重新开始了，只不过现在是由创作者主导的。
And these productions are happening again in Hollywood, but they're just now creator led.
是的
Yeah.
能有这样一个时刻，真正承认并讨论这两个世界交汇的点，真的很有趣。
So it's it's fun to have a moment where we really acknowledge that and talk about this intersection where the two worlds really are meeting.
这些活动上发生的事，大概就是你脑子里正在想的，除非你参加过我们上一场活动。
So what happens at these events is probably the thought that's happening in your head, unless you came to our last event.
如果你参加过我们上一场活动，你应该有点概念了。
If you came to our last event, you kinda know.
我们会安排一系列现场对话，围绕某个主题展开。
We have a bunch of on stage discussions focused on a topic.
这次的主题，正好就是我们刚才说的这个。
Again, this one is exactly what we just said.
我们还会请来一些惊喜嘉宾。
We have surprise guests.
去年，我们请到了凯西·内斯塔特、史蒂文·巴特利特和理查德·布兰森，非常精彩。
Last year, we had Casey Neistat, Steven Bartlett, and Richard Branson, which was very exciting.
我们今年正在筹备惊喜嘉宾。
We are working on our surprise guest this year.
我们不会提前透露他们是谁，毕竟这是个惊喜。
We will not tell you who they are because it's a surprise.
我们还会设置一些专题小组讨论，让你能直接与专家交流。
We will also have breakout sessions on specific topics where you can meet with experts.
在小群体里互动，效果特别好。
And in small groups, we find that to be extremely valuable.
去年的调查反馈里，很多人提到特别喜欢这种小范围交流。
That was a huge thing coming out of the surveys of last year was people like meeting with small groups.
所以今年我们也会继续保留这个环节。
So that will be coming back as well.
我们还会设计很多机会，让你能认识其他与会者。
And we will also create a lot of settings where you are going to meet other people.
这也是去年大家普遍提到的一点。
And that was another thing that came out of last year.
很多人互相认识，还一起合作了项目。
A lot of people met each other, started projects together.
去年有些创作者就因为这个谈到了特别棒的品牌合作。
Some creators got really cool brand deals last year from this.
这真的特别有意思，所以我们才决定再办一次。
Like, it's it's a it's an it's so fun, which is why we're doing it again.
我觉得这件事特别有价值。
I see it as a very valuable thing.
我真期待这次活动。
I can't wait to do it.
在活动之前，我可能会有点紧张。
I will probably have low grade anxiety leading up to it.
科林看起来在活动前会紧张得不行。
Colin looks like he's gonna have some high grade anxiety leading up to it.
我会的。
I will.
对。
Yeah.
我会的。
I will.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得你们还没提到一个特别棒的地方，就是咱们的发布会活动都是单轨制的。
And I think something that you haven't mentioned yet that's really cool about our press publish events is that it's all single track.
来参加活动的每个人，都会拥有相似、甚至完全一样的体验。
Everyone who comes to the event will have the similar a similar, if not the same experience.
我发现有些活动里同时有好几件事在发生，这挺让人分心的。
And something that I find to be distracting at some other events is having multiple things going on at the same time.
你肯定不想因为选错了而错过其他精彩的部分。
You don't want have the FOMO of choosing wrong.
完全同意。
Totally.
怎么选都不会错。
There's no wrong choice.
你来就对了。
You come.
你一定会玩得很开心。
You're gonna have a good time.
而且分组交流环节能让你获得更一对一的个性化体验。
And the breakout groups will give you that more like one on one personal
是的。
Yeah.
满足你想要的那种深度连接。
Connection that you're looking for.
今年就像科切拉音乐节一样。
It's like Coachella this year.
对。
Yeah.
Dejean 和 Disclosure 同时开演。
Dejean and Disclosure playing at the exact same time.
那你去哪个？
Where do you go?
我大概会去 Dijon 那边。
I'll go to Dijon probably.
Bieber 不是压轴吗？
Isn't Bieber headlining Yeah.
在 Coachella？
Coachella?
是的。
Yeah.
咱们去吗？
Are we going?
我的意思是，我们收到邀请了。
I mean, we're invited.
我们吗？
We are?
什么？
What?
我们总是被邀请的。
We're always invited.
我被邀请了吗？
Am I invited?
你知道我们还被邀请去哪吗？
You know where else we're invited?
明天晚上有个《名利场》年轻好莱坞派对。
The Vanity Fair Young Hollywood Party tomorrow night.
就是那个凡尼派对。
The Vanny's.
凡凡凡？
The van vanities?
Vanny's？
Vanny's?
我觉得他们这么叫
I think they call
就叫Vanny's。
it the Vanny's.
Vanny's。
The Vanny's.
好的。
Okay.
西德，我们穿什么？
Sid, what do we wear?
我的回答要看你们有没有额外的邀请名额。
That my answer is gonna depend on if you guys have a plus one.
要是不让我带人，我可要生气了。
I'm gonna address you heinously if I'm not allowed to.
我们没有
We do not
带伴。
have plus ones.
我们只去，就是Colin和Samir两个人。
We are going just as Colin and Samir.
不行。
No.
没问题。
That's fine.
没关系。
That's fine.
我想我得扮演个角色吧。
I I just have to become someone, I guess.
对。
Yeah.
我不想拖大家下水，但真的拜托你们别这样。
I don't wanna throw us under the bus, but like Please do.
我们到底多大年纪才算是老到不适合年轻好莱坞了？
At what point are we too old for young Hollywood?
多大年纪？
How old?
我都37岁了，斯科特。
Like, I'm 37, Scott.
所以问题就是，你多大年纪？
So it just goes, how old are you?
就是说啊。
Like
不行。
No.
你是不是在想，我这么说合适吗？
You're like am I allowed to say?
你36岁。
You're 36.
对吧？
Right?
你36岁。
You're 36.
哦，所以你是想谈薪资谈判？
Oh, and so you wanted to do a salary negotiation?
不跟你谈。
Not with you.
是的。
Yeah.
不跟你谈。
Not with you.
我跟杰西谈。
I'll do it with Jesse.
他来处理。
He'll do it
和我一起。
with me.
对。
Yes.
我36岁，我为36岁感到自豪。
I am 36, and I'm proud to be 36.
没关系。
That's okay.
科林37岁。
Colin's 37.
我不觉得有什么好骄傲的。
I'm not proud.
只是
Just
是的。
Yeah.
他再过三年就四十了。
He's three years away from 40.
你看。
Look.
我就是觉得有点格格不入。
I just feel out.
我看到我们被邀请去参加那个‘年轻好莱坞’活动。
I saw that we got invited to the Young Hollywood Yeah.
派对的时候，我就想，好吧。
Party, I was like, okay.
是有什么榜样人物会在那儿表演吗？
Like role models performing there or something?
是的。
Yeah.
在凯亚·格尔伯家主持？
Hosting at Kaia Gerber?
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，好吧。
I was like, okay.
我都37岁了。
Like, I'm 37.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
对80岁的人来说，这还算年轻。
That's young to an 80 year old.
你说得对，西德。
You're so right, Sid.
你说得太对了。
You're so right.
对了，我们还不知道要穿什么，但说到这个话题，正好可以引出我们的新环节。
By the way, on the so we have no idea what we're gonna wear, but on the subject matter, this is a perfect segue to our new segment.
对。
Yes.
年龄差距。
Age gap.
年龄差距。
Age gap.
好的。
Okay.
顺便说一下，这个名称是我朋友罗汉想的。
I have to credit, my friend Rohan for the name, by the way.
好的。
Okay.
这名字是他提出来的。
It's his pitch on the name.
但这个点子主要来自西德跟我们聊起Z世代的流行语，而我们根本听不懂。
But this is, largely from an idea, of Sid bringing up Gen Z slang to us and us not knowing what it is.
如果我们能搞对了，那我们就有资格去参加《名利场》的年轻好莱坞派对了。
And I think if we get this right, then we are allowed to go to this Vanity Fair Young Hollywood party.
接下来是流程：
So here's how it's gonna go.
西德会给我们抛出一个词。
Sid is gonna suggest a term to us.
我猜我们俩都不懂，但我们会告诉你们知不知道这个词的意思。
I'm gonna assume both of us don't know what it is, but we will answer to tell you if we know what it means or not.
说不定我们还会猜一猜。
Maybe we'll do a guess.
别用手机查。
You cannot search on your phone call.
我只是你的
I'm just your
我觉得就算做最基础的搜索，也找不到你想知道的答案。
I think I even a rudimentary search would not give you the answer you are looking for.
然后你来给我们解释，我们还得再复述一遍给你听。
And then you will explain it to us, and we have to explain it back to you.
对。
Yes.
我还准备了一个小游戏。
There's also I have a little game Okay.
也一起参与进来。
Involved as well.
来吧。
Let's do it.
这个词是 kaya asylum。
The term is kaya asylum.
有人听说过这个吗？
Has anyone heard of this?
我没听过。
I have not.
完全没听过。
Absolutely not.
你能解释一下吗？
And can you clarify?
是拼成 K-Y-A 吗？
It is spelled k y a?
是拼成 K-H-I-A。
It is spelled K H I A.
K-H-I-A。
K h I a.
的庇护所。
The Asylum.
QIAA疗养院。
The QIAA Asylum.
对。
Yes.
我
I
我觉得我们需要一点提示，或者你直接告诉我们这游戏怎么玩。
think we're gonna need a hint or you tell us how the game works.
其实，等我跟你解释清楚这个词之后，游戏就自然明白了。
Well, the game works after I explain the term to you.
比如说，我有个游戏搭档。
Like, I have a game associate.
等你弄懂了这个概念，我再介绍另一个游戏。
Now once you have a grasp on what the concept is, I have an associate game.
你能告诉我们是否
Can you give us if
你用在
you use it in
句子里面吗？
a sentence?
是的。
Yeah.
用在句子里面。
Use it in a sentence.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
艾娃·麦克斯被困在查亚精神病院里。
Ava Max is stuck in the Chaya Asylum.
再来一句。
Another sentence.
扎拉·拉森刚从查亚精神病院出来。
Zara Larsen is fresh out the Chaya Asylum.
明白了。
Okay.
所以这个查亚精神病院，是不是就是当你失去文化影响力，或者变得像丘吉一样时，会被送去的地方？
So is the Chaya Asylum maybe where you go when you either lose your cultural relevance or become Chewgy?
我该说‘明白’吗？
Am I supposed to say okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这确实挺贴切的，完全符合查亚精神病院的设定。
I would say, like, that's definitely on track to what the Chaya Asylum is.
说得真不错。
That's pretty good.
你咋会知道这些的？
How the hell did you know that?
你这话是什么意思？
What do you mean?
她刚才就在句子里用了这个词。
She just that she just used it in a sentence.
就是说，比如‘Do’……
That was like Do
科林，你知道扎拉·拉森是谁吗？
you know who Zara Larsen is, Colin?
当然知道了。
Like, yeah.
现在扎拉·拉森又回来了。
So Zara Larsen is back right now.
对。
Yes.
明白了。
Okay.
所以我才说，如果她从‘奶茶避难所’出来了，那地方其实就是让人失去文化影响力的地方。
Which is why I'm saying if she's out of the chai asylum, the chai asylum is where you go to kind of lose your cultural relevance.
很明显，一旦你离开那儿，就又回来了。
Clearly, this is where when you're out of it, you're back.
对。
Yeah.
咱们先来聊聊这个词的词源吧。
Let's get into the etymology for a second.
因为我觉得搞清楚卡娅是谁很重要，这能帮我们理解。
Because I think it's important to know who Kaya is, and that will help us.
好的。
Okay.
我来唱第一句，我先来。
I will sing the first I will
你打算
You're gonna
唱？
sing?
这根本不对。
This is a really No.
我会
I will
顺便说一下，坐上这个节目对我们的播客听众来说还是头一回。
By the way, sit on the show is a very new experience for our podcast listeners.
这是第一次。
This is the first time.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
Most true.
顺便说声谢谢，邀请我参加。
Thank you for having me, by the way.
我感到非常荣幸。
I'm very honored.
好的。
Okay.
我其实不是在唱歌。
I am going to it's not really sing.
我想我会吟唱两句卡亚的歌。
I will chant, I guess, two lines of a song by the artist, Kaya.
首先，你听说过卡亚这个人吗？
First of all, do you know who Kaya is?
没听过。
No.
我不认识。
I do not.
这正是重点所在。
That's the whole point.
好的。
Okay.
但你知道那首唱着‘我的脖子，我的背’的歌吗？
But do you know the song that goes, my neck, my back.
我就说到这儿。
I'm stopping there.
对。
Yep.
那首歌也不是Kaya的。
That's also not Kaya.
就是她的。
It is.
我们确定吗？
Are we sure?
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Got it.
咱们去 Spotify 看看吧，毕竟这才是重点，好吧。
Let's let's let's go to Spotify because that's the whole base Okay.
行。
That's fine.
行。
That's fine.
是的。
Yep.
我懂了。
I got it.
我们可以跳过这个了。
You can we can move on from that.
是的
Yeah.
我们没问题了。
We're good.
好的。
Okay.
凯娅出了一首爆款单曲。
So Kaia made a one hit wonder.
简单来说，‘避难所’就是给中等水平流行歌手准备的阿兹卡班。
Basically, Asylum is Azkaban for mid tier pop stars.
那是那些还没真正走红的女生们的中间地带。
It is limbo for the girls who just quite haven't made it yet.
那些一直在努力打拼，却还没成为家喻户晓名字的流行歌手。
The pop stars that are putting in the work, but they are not a household name yet.
这一切都源于一个梗：唱《My Neck, My Back》的凯娅遇见了一个粉丝，那粉丝激动得当场哭了出来。
And this all emerged from a meme of Kaia, Kaia the person who sings the song My Neck, My Back, meeting a fan and the fan is like bursting into tears.
有人说，那个粉丝见到凯亚时都哭出来了。
And someone said this bleep was crying over meeting Kaia.
于是推特上的妮琪·米娜粉丝，也就是Barbz们，把‘Kaya’这个词引申为任何有点失败的人，懂吧。
And so Nicki Minaj stans on Twitter, also known as Barbz, they took the phrase Kaya to mean anyone who is kind of a flop Got it.
一个扑街。
A chop.
是的。
Yeah.
所以现在，如果你被困在‘Kaya疗养院’里，就意味着你还没真正闯出来。
And so now if you're stuck in the Kaya Asylum, you are you haven't really made it out yet.
但这是说你曾经火过，还是说你根本就没火过？
But does that mean that you had a thing, or does it mean you never had a thing?
意思是可能有人知道你是谁，但你已经不重要了。
It means maybe people know who you are, but you're not relevant.
你曾经有过热度，但现在已经过气了。
Your thing, but you are not relevant.
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