Yes Theory 与让人在意的艺术

一起吃顿饭。

Eat a meal.

观察一下，然后聊聊感受。

Observe and talk about it.

但你看看你们的视频和频道，你们真的完全融入了每一次冒险。

But you watch your videos and your channel, and it is you guys are fully participatory in every adventure.

没错。

Yeah.

你也知道团队规模有多大。

I mean, you also know the extent of the crew.

我觉得这差别真的很大。

I think that's really different.

是啊。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

一些未知的地方。

Parts unknown.

我根本不知道那些摄影师是谁。

I didn't know who the cameramen were.

是的。

Yeah.

我们很多人事后才了解到。

A lot of us learned after the fact.

对。

Yeah.

波达因拍那会儿，你根本不知道幕后团队是谁。

When Bourdain was filming that, you don't know the crew.

没错。

Yep.

但你们的视频里，要么是你自己拿着摄像机，要么是科里，你们还会明确展示出摄像师是谁。

But in your videos, you you know either you're holding a camera or it's Corey, and you show the guys on like, who are holding the camera.

就像是一个团队，你认识里面的每一个人。

It's like, it's a unit of people who you were like, oh, I know everyone who's there.

我觉得不会有什么意外，比如藏起来的摄影师之类的。

I don't there's no surprises as to, like or there's no hidden camera operator there.

对我来说，作为一个YouTube粉丝，我觉得就是这样。

I think that's how for me, as a fan of YouTube

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这样。

I like that.

对。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

我希望感觉自己是其中一部分，我不喜欢有人假装没有摄影师，或者假装某个时刻是自然发生的——我觉得你一眼就能看出来。

I I wanna feel like I'm a part of it, and I don't like it when someone's pretending there isn't a cameraman, or pretending a moment is I think it's I think you can read through it.

我不确定是因为我看太多YouTube了，还是因为我自己也做内容，但我特别喜欢那种打破第四面墙的时刻——比如摄影师转过身来自己说句话，或者出现在镜头里。我觉得这样才真实，才更有意思。

I don't know if it's just because I watch a lot of YouTube, or because I make it, but I enjoy it when they break the fourth wall, the cameraman turns and says something themselves, or appears, you know, I think that's cool because that's the real experience.

你知道吗？这才是真正发生的事，对吧？

You know, that is what's actually happening, right?

所以我们选人的时候特别谨慎，因为我们希望把每个人都能介绍清楚。

And so we try to be very thoughtful with who we bring with us because we wanna introduce everyone.

就连翻译也是角色之一。

So even a translator is a character.

我们不会随便找个翻译来凑数。

So we don't wanna just pick a random translator.

我们希望这个翻译是有故事的，能说清楚他是谁、为什么在这儿，以及为什么他的出现特别有意义。

We want the translator to, like, we want to be able to explain who the translator is and why they're here and why it's kind of interesting and relevant.

我们不想随便雇个人当翻译，那样就太没人情味了。

We don't wanna just have hire a random person to be the translator because it just doesn't feel as human.

我觉得这正是我们想做的——讲真实的故事，对吧？

And I think that's what like, we're trying to do stories that are real, right?

那感觉特别真实，因为本来就是真的。

That that really feel real because they are real.

如果你藏起一部分制作过程，比如不展示摄影师也悬在悬崖边上，那就不对了。

And and I think if you if you hide part of the process, if you don't show that there's a cameraman who's also dangling off the side of a cliff, and you don't not showing that.

我觉得这可能反而让内容更像电视节目。

I think that's maybe what makes it feel more like a TV show.

而对于YouTube来说，我一直欣赏的是，你很容易代入其中，仿佛自己也在现场。

And I think for YouTube, what I've always appreciated is that it it feels you can a part of you can visualize yourself in it as well.

即使我们现在做的有些事未必人人都能感同身受，我们还是希望观众能真切地感受到自己和我们在一起。

And even if some of the things we do now are not maybe the most relatable, we try to make people really feel like they're there with us.

我觉得这正是YouTube整体独有的地方。

And I think that's something that's very unique to YouTube in general.

过去别人常问我们，哎，这不就是拍vlog吗？

I think that in in the past, you know, people ask us like, oh, so it's like a it's like vlogging.

其实也不是那么回事。

It's like, well, not really.

这也不是一部纪录片。

And it's not a documentary either.

我的意思是，我们既有纪录片的摄像机，也有Vlog的摄像机。

Like, so I say we have like a documentary camera, and then we have a vlog camera.

我就是这么理解的。

It's kind of how I Yeah.

我明白你的意思。

I see it.

我觉得我们从你们那儿学了不少这种做法。

I think we adopt we adopted that quite a bit from you guys.

我们刚开始做纪实风格的时候，比如去《野兽游戏》——那个贝爷在亚马逊的节目——拍幕后花絮，我们就用了完全一样的方式。

Like, when we started doing our doc format, like, when we went and went behind the scenes at beast games, mister Beast Amazon show, we did that exact same thing.

我们同时用了纪录片摄像机和Vlog摄像机。

We had a doc camera and a vlog camera.

不对。

No.

我好像从来没提过，这主意很可能来自你们。

I don't think I've ever acknowledged that, that it was probably you guys.

我可能把功劳算到我们自己头上了。

I may have given ourselves credit.

我们大概确实把功劳全归自己了。

Think we we probably gave ourselves credit.

大概也算合理吧。

Probably allowed.

这是个不错的

It's a good

拍摄形式。

it's a good format.

是的。

Yeah.

不对。

No.

但我上周末写下了三点，关于创作者的思维和电影制作人的思维有什么不同。

But it is the the I wrote down three things over the weekend of, like, what is the creator mindset compared to the filmmaker's mindset?

我们确实接触过很多电影制作团队，那些传统制作公司的做法。

And we've experienced a lot of the filmmaker crew, the legacy production company.

就连我们去参加《野兽游戏》的时候，传统真人秀的制作团队和他们的风格也截然不同。

Even when we went to beast games, like, the the production crew from more traditional reality TV versus beasts.

我写了这三点，你可能同意，也可能不认同。

And I wrote down three things, and maybe you agree, maybe you don't.

当然，可能还有别的方面值得提。

Maybe there's other things to to mention.

第一点是，要清楚了解内容发布的平台。

The first was being contextually aware of the distribution platform.

我觉得这一点差别真的很大。

I actually think that is so different.

对，没错。

Like Mhmm.

在传统娱乐行业，人们往往不太考虑内容将在哪个平台播放，因为以前的作品得适配各种场景，比如电影院的大银幕、电视屏幕等等。

In traditional entertainment, oftentimes, there's there's not as much acknowledgment of the platform in which this is going to be watched on because it had to be built for so many different things, like a movie theater screen, a TV screen.

观众可能在各种地方观看，所以创作者通常对播放环境没什么特别的考量。

Like, people would be watching this in different places, so you were kind of contextually agnostic.

大家就觉得，这东西就是给屏幕看的。

You were like, this is just for screens.

但我们制作内容时，很清楚它是在特定环境中播放的，我们特别在意它要在YouTube这样的平台上呈现，而那跟别的平台完全不同。

But when we make something, we know that it's in this environment that we're so aware of, and we're also aware of, like, we want it to be aware of YouTube, which which is which is very different.

第二点，是要站在观众的角度去理解他们的体验。

Second thing is empathetic to the audience's experience.

我的意思是，我们知道观众随时可能点击屏幕右边的另一个视频，所以我们必须意识到这一点。

So what I mean by that is, like, we are empathetic to the fact that that the audience could click another video on the right side of their screen at any moment in time.

因此，要想赢得他们的注意力，就得用一种他们愿意继续看下去的方式来讲故事。

And so to be empathetic to that, you have to kind of tell a story in a way where you know that they have other options.

你不能理所当然地觉得，观众的时间是属于你的。

You are not entitled to their time right now.

对吧？

Right?

没错，就是这样。

Like, you Absolutely.

你知道他们还有其他选择。

You know that they have other options.

你知道他们完全可以做别的事。

You know they could do other things.

第三点是与观众互动。

And the and the third thing is collaborative with the audience.

意思是，如果我是YouTube上的观众，我不希望觉得创作者只是自顾自地制作内容，而我完全被排除在外。

Meaning, if I'm an audience member on YouTube, I don't want to feel like a creator is just making something and I'm not a part of it.

这可能包括回应一条评论。

That could mean acknowledging a comment.

也可能只是简单地回应一下观众的互动。

It could mean even just acknowledging the the exchange.

甚至说一句‘我不确定’。

Even saying, I don't know.

你知道，你们之前说我们应该这么做。

You know, you guys said we should do this.

或者，上次我们这么做的时候，你们特别喜欢。

Or, you know, last time we did this, you guys really liked it.

像这样的话，都能营造出一种与其他平台完全不同的互动氛围。

Even saying stuff like that creates a collaborative show environment that is unlike any other platform.

所以我一直在想，好莱坞和YouTube的世界正在交汇，因为这三点都特别重要。

So I've been thinking about those as, you know, the Hollywood world and the YouTube world are colliding because, like, those three things are very important.

即使创作者转向Netflix，想要采纳这种思维，也得清楚自己身处的环境是什么样。

Even as creators go to Netflix, it's almost like to adopt that mindset, you also have to be contextually aware of the environment you're in there.

对。

Yeah.

你得意识到自己是在别人的环境中，这个我一时也说不太清楚，但这些就是我总结出来的，我觉得构成了现代电影人的核心特质。

That you're in someone's I don't know how to explain that further, but that those are the that I've written down that I think make up, like, what the modern filmmaker is now.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得YouTube上也有自己的一套文化，对吧？

And I think there's a culture on YouTube as well, right?

我觉得看YouTube的人对这一点都很清楚，而且我们尤其敏感。

I think that people that watch YouTube are aware of, and I think we're hyper aware of it.

我每天都会看YouTube。

I mean, I watch YouTube every day.

我相信你们也一样。

I'm sure you guys do as well.

我几乎每天都看，都快二十年了，时间真快。

Like, I've been watching it every day for, you know, almost twenty years, you know, it's been a while.

所以这也是我想做一档出色的YouTube节目的原因。

And I think that's also why I wanna make an amazing YouTube show.

我最喜欢做的就是这种内容。

Like that's what I really enjoy making.

我偶尔也会想想电视节目的形式之类的，但眼下我做这个特别开心，真不知道换别的形式还能不能有这么大的自由度。

And I do think sometimes about TV format or something along those lines, but right now, I'm just having so much fun doing this, and I don't know if I would ever have the same amount of freedom doing something else.

但我很清楚，这内容是为YouTube做的，所以我一直努力让它贴合YouTube的风格——毕竟我们完全可以请个第二摄影师，不用自己拿摄像机。

But I'm hyper aware that this is for YouTube, and I'm trying to keep it relevant to YouTube because we can just hire a second cameraman and not hold a camera ourselves.

可每次我们试过那样做，总觉得跟观众之间隔了一层，不够亲近。

But I think then whenever we've tried that, it's felt like we're a bit too removed from the audience.

但如果你自己拿着摄像机，就会感觉像是在直接跟他们说话。

Versus if you hold it yourself, it feels like you're speaking directly to them.

我们当然可以请摄影师拍我们说话，可那样一来，那种个人化的温度就没了。

And we could have a cameraman just film us saying something, but it again, it takes away the personal aspect.

有时候我们跟人聊天，摄像机拿得角度可能不太理想，但我会直视对方，眼睛不躲，就这么举着摄像机拍。

And I think that sometimes when we meet a person, we're holding the camera and like not an optimal angle, but we're speaking to that person making full eye contact, and I'm holding the camera sort of like this.

对。

Mhmm.

这种真实感，远比我们说‘停一下，我们重来’要强得多。

And that makes the moment so much more real than if we just said, okay, pause for a second.

我们多架几台摄像机吧。

Let's set up multiple cameras.

咱们好好感受一下这份氛围。

Let's love them up.

咱们把这事做到完美。

Let's make this perfect.

我们用一个吊杆麦克风吧。

Let's have a boom mic.

我们用一个吊杆麦克风吧。

Let's have a boom mic.

我觉得我们能和观众建立这么深的连接，是因为我们先去亲身经历，再记录下我们做事的方式。

And I think we've been able to connect with people so deeply because it's we try to experience first and then capture the sort of how we do things.

我们还经常和像科里这样出色的摄影师合作。

And then we have amazing cinematographers like Corey that we work with a lot.

我们也会和昆汀、泰勒合作。

We also work with Quentin, Tyler.

而且当你遇到一个人，既能跟上你的节奏，又不会让你觉得压力太大，这时候你真的能捕捉到特别真实、特别有人味的瞬间，我觉得我们现在正需要这种感觉。

And yeah, it's it's when you have someone who can match your energy and also not make someone feel overwhelmed, then I think you can really capture something very raw and very human, which I think we kind of need to feel these days.

我觉得上网的时候，很容易感到疏离，甚至变得麻木。

I think that I think it's easy to feel disconnected when you're on the Internet and to feel numb.

我们的目标就是让人真正感受到情绪，把那些情绪激发出来。

And our goal is to make people feel actual emotions and to try to bring that out.

要实现这一点，你得能和另一个人建立起一种真实、脆弱的瞬间。

And for that to happen, I think you have to be able to create a very vulnerable real life moment with another person.

我一直觉得自己就像一座桥，通过讲述这个故事来连接彼此。

And I always consider it like I am a bridge in a way by telling this story.

但这不是我的故事，是对方的故事。

And it's not my story, it's this person's story.

我得尽全力做好这座桥，把他们尽可能地推向观众，让他们被看见、被理解。

And I have to do the best job at being a bridge between them and the audience to lift them up as much as possible.

所以我的任务就是问出最合适的问题，用最恰当的顺序，让他们感到安心，愿意敞开心扉，分享那些深藏心底的事。有时候，我们甚至直到拍摄结束才告诉他们，我们到底在拍什么。

So it's my job to ask the best question and the best order of questions so that they feel comfortable opening up and sharing something that is very vulnerable, and sometimes we don't even tell them what we're filming for until after, until the end.

我们尽量不提，说这是个有千万订阅的频道。

We never we we for the most for as long as possible, we try to avoid saying, oh, it's for this channel with 10,000,000 subscribers.

九百九十三万。

9.93.

九百九十三万，抱歉，我说错了。

Nine point so sorry about that.

你会跟他们说实话吗？

Are you honest with them about this?

我得去一下。

I'm gonna go actually.

九百九十三万订阅者。

9.93 subscribers.

他们一听就说，哦，原来不是，我还以为是

And they go, oh, that's not that's Oh, I thought

一千万。

it was 10.

对。

Yeah.

有些家伙

There's guys

2600。

2,600.

是的。

Yeah.

还有，你想怎么处理都行。

Also Do whatever you want

怎么处理这些素材。

with the footage.

没错。

Exactly.

哦，你是那2600人之一？

Oh, you're one of the 2,600?

不是。

No.

但我们会尽量避免提前说，因为有时候人会紧张，你知道的，情绪也会变。

But it's try to avoid it because sometimes people get nervous, you know, or they, their energy changes.

所以我们通常等到最后才告诉他们。

So we tell them at the very end.

有时候这还挺有意思的。

So sometimes it's really fun.

我们曾经和一个人一起旅行了好几天，都没说我们在拍什么，他们也从来没问过。

We've spent a multi day trip with someone without telling them what we're filming for, and they don't ask.

等旅行结束时，我们才顺便提一句，哦，这个视频是给一个挺大的YouTube频道拍的。从来都没出过问题——我们当然不会隐瞒在拍摄，只是不想让他们太紧张，或者觉得必须刻意斟酌每一句话。

And then at the end of the trip, we're like, by the way, it's for like a a pretty big YouTube channel, you know, and and never had any problems saying, we, of course, are not hiding the fact that we're filming, but we just don't want them to get all worked up about it or feel like they need to overthink their words.

是的。

Yeah.

你

Do you

你们觉得这是你们的一个优势吗？

think that is a competitive advantage of you guys?

是的。

Yeah.

保持那种真诚和真实，是不是你们采访对象的关键？

Is maintaining that sort of honesty and and earnestness of the people that

怎么做到的？

come up?

我们拍东西时尽量专业，但又要看起来自然随意。

Try to look at, like we try to shoot everything professionally, but look as unprofessional.

不是要显得邋遢，而是不想让人觉得我们刻意打扮过。

Not look as unprofessional, but we try to not to see Physically disheveled.

没错。

Exactly.

有时候确实会这样。

We sometimes yeah.

算了，我本来想讲个笑话，但觉得不太适合我们。

Anyways, I was gonna say a joke, but I don't think it's appropriate for us.

我们确实努力让氛围显得很低调，采访对象也常说，和我们在一起时感觉特别放松。

We, yeah, try to make it seem very low key, and that's a feedback that we get from people we film with that they feel very comfortable being around us.

他们觉得没必要刻意表现，也不会担心我们评判他们说的话。

They don't feel like they need to perform or that we're judging their words.

恰恰相反，我们就是这样。

It's quite the opposite.

我觉得这中间的分寸很难把握。

And I think that's a fine line.

拍摄时，一不留神，真实瞬间就容易变成表演。

I think a real moment when you're filming it, it's so can so easily tip over into being performative.

要让时刻保持真实，需要一个特别默契的团队——既能拍得漂亮，又不会把镜头硬怼到人脸上。

And to keep the moment real that takes like a very good group to hold the space for a person, to shoot it in a beautiful way, but still not shove the camera in their face.

要说我们最拿手的，大概就是捕捉真实瞬间，还不破坏它的自然感。

If there's anything I think we're good at, it's capturing a real moment and not let it affect the realness of the moment.

而且实际上，这样反而让一切更真实，因为每个人都很专注。

And in fact, make it more real because everyone is hyper present.

没人分心做别的事。

No one is doing anything else.

我们全都全神贯注地听那个人说话。

We're all 100% listening to that person.

但当你把事情做大，变成一档电视节目时，人们难免会意识到自己正在被拍摄，而且这种意识会更强烈。

And I think when you scale things up and you become a TV show, inevitably people know that they're being recorded to a different degree.

我觉得这正是YouTube带来的改变，让它变得可能。

And I think that's what YouTube has enabled and made very possible.

你可以拍一档节目，观众达数百万，用专业摄像机拍出高质量画面，但同时又保留着像Vlog那样的真实感和原始感。

Like, you can go out and have a show that reaches millions of people that has incredible scale shot on red cameras, but that is still very human and very raw that also has a vlog camera.

对。

Mhmm.

没错。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢尝试这种风格，说实话，我也说不准。

I'm I'm loving experimenting with that, and I don't know.

有时候我会回想，哎呀，以前旅行类电视节目真有个黄金时代，但现在几乎看不到了。

You know, sometimes I think back about, oh, man, you know, like there was a golden era of of travel TV shows that kind of like doesn't really exist anymore.

但我不禁想，等我们回过头来看现在，会不会觉得这才是旅行类YouTube的黄金时代？只是后来太饱和了，或者形式变了，现在这种拍摄方式反而成了标配。

But I wonder if we'll look back at it now, you know, at the time now and be like, this was the golden era of travel YouTube that then got so saturated or, you know, changed or shooting things this way is now just standard.

但眼下，感觉就像西部荒野。

But currently, it feels like the Wild West.

根本没什么规矩可言。

Like there are no rules.

对。

Yeah.

没人告诉我们该怎么拍，我们边做边摸索，边直播边调整形式，跟着感觉走，也跟着观众的反馈走。

Like no one is telling us how to do things, and we're trying to figure it out as we're going and experimenting live as we are changing the format, evolving the format, following what feels good to us, and what the audience is clicking with.

正因为没有现成的模板，我觉得特别激动人心，因为你一边做，一边自己在写这个规则。

And I I think because there is no there is no playbook, I think it's super exciting because you get to write the playbook yourself as you're doing it.

每天让我充满干劲的，就是去摸索出答案。

And that is what gets me fired up every day is just figuring that out.

我们到底该怎么边做边写出下一个指南？

Like, how do we write the next playbook by doing it?

让我觉得特别真实的是，你提到的这种真实感。

What's refreshing to me is what you said about it being real.

过去六年，我明显感觉到做内容这件事越来越像一门生意。

And I think there's like a hyper awareness over the past six years of the business of being a creator.

对。

Mhmm.

该怎么把这当生意来运营？

How to run this as a business?

有哪些策略？

What are the strategies?

比如说，现在的媒体行业到底是怎么运作的？

Like, you know, how does the modern media industry work?

这就导致了很多未必真实的内容。

And it creates a lot of not necessarily real content.

对。

Yeah.

旅行可能是少数还保持真实感的形式之一，因为那就是正在发生的事。

And travel is probably one of the last real formats because it's just like, that's what's happening.

你只是在旅行，而我在看你这么做。

You're just traveling, and I'm watching you do it.

你觉得过去几年里，围绕你和Yes Theory的视频内容发生了什么变化？

How do you think the surrounding videos have changed around you and Yes Theory over the past couple years?

你对YouTube现在这个阶段怎么看？

And what do you think about this moment right now on YouTube?

你注意到周围有哪些变化？作为一条视频平均播放量300万、最高能冲到800万的频道，你觉得自己处在什么样的竞争环境中？

Like, what are you seeing that's around you that you're competing with, that you're a part of as a channel that's doing average 3,000,000 views a video right now can get up to like 8,000,000 views.

你们的视频有种天然的吸引力，但从你的角度看，你们所处的环境究竟是什么样的？

There's a gravitational pull towards your guys' videos, but what is the environment that you're existing in from your perspective?

这些年确实变化很大。

It's definitely changed a lot throughout the years.

我们刚起步的时候，最火的频道是凯西·内斯塔特。

I think the channels when we started, it was Casey Neistat was the biggest.

没错。

Right.

至少那时候，他根本不在乎标题和封面图。

And I don't think he ever cared about what title or a thumbnail, at least at that time.

对吧？

Right?

我也不在乎。

And I didn't care.

他发什么我都看，但现在不一样了。

I would just watch everything he uploaded and that's changed now.

现在算法对内容推荐的影响大得多，大家摸索出了怎么迎合算法，创作者也越来越在意算法了。

I think with the algorithm being a much bigger weight of what gets shown, people have had to people have figured out how to gamify the algorithm, and then creators have become hyper aware of the algorithm, I think.

所以现在，很少能看到新频道是从纯粹自我表达出发开始做内容的了。

And so it's more rare that you see channels starting, I think, from where you can see that they're just genuinely creating from their own self expression.

感觉现在大多数小创作者都非常清楚算法怎么运作，而且拼命想迎合它。

Feels like now most small creators are very hyper aware of how the algorithm works and wanting adapt and adjust to it.

我觉得YouTube对很多频道来说已经变得非常策略化了。

And I think that YouTube has gone very strategic for many channels.

但我发现，最受观众喜爱的那些频道，往往能让人感觉到他们只是单纯在创作。

But I'm seeing many of the channels that seem to be the most beloved are the ones who you could tell they're just creating.

有幾個頻道我特別喜歡，比如Magnus Mittboo，不知道你知不知道他。

There's a couple channels I really like, Magnus Mittboo, I don't know if you know him.

他是個挪威攀岩者，特別出色的創作者，每支影片風格都截然不同。

He's a Norwegian rock climber, amazing creator, and every video is like very different.

他還接受過挪威軍隊的訓練。

He's like trained with the Norwegian army.

他拍的都是攀岩視頻。

He does rock climbing videos.

他拍的是一些户外生存类的视频，你知道的，那种男孩冒险类型的。

He does sort of, you know, outdoor boys survival videos.

就是他想拍什么就拍什么。

Like it's sort of whatever he wants to do.

他的标题和封面图有点乱，但效果出奇地好。

And some of his titles and thumbnails are a bit chaotic, but it's working.

我喜欢是因为能感觉到这完全是他在自己做。

I enjoy because you could tell it's just him doing it.

我跟他偶尔发过几条消息。

And I've been texting with him a little bit.

但我还没见过他本人。

I haven't met him.

他就说，根本没什么团队，就他自己。

And he's just says, just Yeah, he's coming up with He's no team.

就他一个人，再加个摄影师和剪辑，全靠临场发挥。

It's just him and like a videographer and an editor, and he's just winging it.

你能感觉到特别真实，他的视频反响很好，大家都很喜欢，能明显看出有一群核心粉丝跟他有很强的情感连接。

And you could tell, and so it's very real, but his videos are doing well and people are enjoying it, and you can feel that there's like a core audience who really feels connected to him.

对。

Yeah.

Mike Okay 是另一个在过去几年里在旅行领域做得特别出色的例子。

Mike Okay is another one who's done really well in the travel space the last couple of years.

而同样是因为，他只是跟着自己的兴趣走。

And again, it's because it's just, it's following his own curiosity.

我觉得现在正有一种回潮，不再一味追求优化，故事依然吸引人。

So I think there's a swing back in the not optimized direction where the stories are still compelling.

话题依然独特有趣，但人们更喜欢这种稍微朴素一点的风格，因为会觉得，哦，我看到的是一个真实的人。

The topics are still unique and interesting, but I think people are enjoying the slightly more stripped down formats because they feel, oh, I'm watching a real human being.

在我看来，这种真实感只会越来越珍贵，因为AI能轻易生成大量格式化的视频，那些过度包装、过度精致的内容反而会越来越没吸引力。

I think that in my eyes, I think that's only gonna become more and more valuable because AI is gonna be able to create so many formatted type of videos that I think the hyperstructured and hyper polished is gonna be less valuable to people.

当观众感受到自己在和一个真实的人互动，看到的是真实、未经修饰的瞬间时，我觉得这类频道才会是最受喜爱、最值得追随的。

And when they feel that they're genuinely interacting with a real human being who's capturing real authentic moments, I think those are gonna be the channel that people are gonna love and follow the most.

这些也是我最喜欢看的频道。

And those are the channels that I enjoy watching the most as well.

当我感觉到某个视频是专门为迎合算法而精心优化过的，我就觉得没那么有趣了，也许只是因为我太熟悉这一套了。

I think when I can sense that, oh, this has been hyper optimized to cater to a very specific algorithmic sort of optimization, feels it less interesting to me, and maybe it's just because I'm so in it.

这些视频其实依然很受欢迎，不是说它们没效果，但Outdoor Boys就是一个很好的例子。

I mean, those videos still perform, so it's not like it's not it's not working, but I think that even Outdoor Boys is a good example.

就一个 guy，带着个GoPro。

Just one guy with a GoPro.

连背景音乐都没有。

Like, no music.

我注意到他儿子也在拍视频。

I noticed his son is making videos.

他离开的时候，本来就说好要继续帮着孩子拍。

That was the whole thing when he left that he was gonna continue helping his

我记得有这回事，但我之前真没看过他的视频，是后来偶然看到的。

I guess I remember that that no, but I didn't I'd never come across the videos, and then I just came across them.

挺不错的。

They're pretty good.

我没看过他儿子的频道，但我觉得他做得特别好，每条视频播放量都高达三千万，简直不可思议。

I I have not seen his son's channel, but I think he's a great I mean, he was 30,000,000 views per video or something insane.

之所以这么成功，就是因为只是一个带着GoPro的普通人。

So much of that because it was just a guy with a GoPro.

就像你说的，

Like, you

你能真切感受到那种氛围——我独自一人，陪着这个 guy。

felt the true stakes of, wow, I'm I'm alone with this guy.

是我在这里观看，而他正在经历这一切。

It is me watching and him going on this experience.

我觉得正是这种方式让人建立了情感连接，而很多频道在过度优化之后，反而失去了这种东西。

And I think you build a relationship that way, which is what I think some channels lost when they hyper optimized.

我觉得对凯西来说，大家都跟他有种奇怪的单向亲密感。

I think with Casey, everyone had like a weird parasocial relationship with him.

完全没错。

100%.

我感觉就像早就认识他一样。

Like I felt like I knew him.

所以当我见到他时，真的特别奇怪，因为我明明觉得特别了解他。

So when I met him, it was definitely it was definitely weird because I was just like, I know him for sure.

而且

And

去年十月我第一次去他的工作室，结果对里面的一切都特别熟悉。

I went to his studio for the first time in October of last year, and I knew my way around it.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我之前根本没去过那里。

And I'd never been in there.

那感觉真的很奇怪。

And it was weird.

是的

Yeah.

坐在那儿环顾四周，感觉特别奇怪，因为我觉得自己对这儿的每个角落都了如指掌。

It felt really weird to sit in there and look around and be like, I know every corner of this place.

是的

Yeah.

但凯西特别擅长表达自己，创造出独特的东西，让人产生共鸣。

But again, Casey was a master at expressing himself and putting in like, creating something unique that people felt connected to.

他现在依然是个高手，只是发的东西少了。

He still is a master, but he's just uploading less.

我觉得这正是大家所渴望的。

But I think that's what people are craving.

他们渴望的是真实的情感连接。

I think they're craving real connection.

我觉得随着我们越来越关注事情背后的商业运作，互联网正在失去一些这种东西。

And I think that the Internet is losing some of that as we become hyper aware of the business side of things.

因为YouTube刚起步的时候，每个创作者都只是图个乐子。

Because every creator when YouTube started was just doing it for fun.

那时候没人赚钱，对吧？

No one was making money, right?

所以你知道，这里每个人做视频，纯粹是因为喜欢。

So you knew that every person here is just doing this because they love doing it.

但现在，里面混进了一些把平台当生意的人，他们本质上是商人，只是刚好拍点内容来促进业务——这本身没什么不对。

And now I think it's been mixed with people that use it more as a business opportunity, They're business people, but then they happen to make content because it's good for their business, which is there's nothing wrong with that.

我觉得这完全说得通，这其实就是现在这个世界运行的方式。

I think that makes perfect sense, and I think that's the nature of how the world works now.

比如你想创业，最好的做法就是把创业的过程拍成故事讲出来。

Like if you wanna have a startup, the best thing to do is to tell the story of building that startup.

我觉得这挺好的，也很有活力，带来了新机会，但对我来说，真实的人类故事永远会有需求。如果你把策略当成头等大事，反而会失去这种东西。

So I think that's a it's good and it's exciting and it's bringing new opportunities, but I think for me, I think there'll always be a demand for real human stories, and I think if you put too much of the strategy as the number one thing that you're doing, you lose that.

对我来说，我始终把体验放在第一位，生意是后来的事。你知道吗？可能有些人粉丝没我们多，但赚的钱比我们多得多。

Like for me, I'm really focused on experience first and then business later, which is, you know, I think, you know, there's probably people that have made been more successful than us financially, even with smaller channels.

但我觉得，一旦优先级变了，你就忘了自己当初为什么要这么做。

But I think the moment that priority shifts, I think you lose touch with what why are you doing this in the first place?

对我来说，从来都不是先把生意放在第一位。

And for me, it was never about business first.

我想成长。

I I wanna grow.

我想变得财务自由，实现各种目标，但最重要的还是做出我自己真正喜欢的内容。

I wanna, you know, get to a place where I can be financially free and all of these things, but my main priority is to create something that I myself am a fan of.

我真喜欢自己拍的视频吗？

Like, am I a fan of my own videos?

如果我不喜欢，那该怎么让自己喜欢上它们？

And if I'm not, how do I become a fan of my own videos?

我一直在追求的，就是怎么才能变得更好一点，超越过去的自己，让一年后的我回头看现在做的东西时，能觉得：那时候真稚嫩，我现在强多了。

And that's what I'm always striving for is how can I be a little bit better so that I can one up myself, you know, and so that a year from now, I look back at what I'm making now and be like, oh, that was so you know, I'm so much better now?

像《人生学校》的创始人，是个特别了不起的创作者和思想家，他说：如果你不为两年前的自己感到尴尬，那说明你进步得太慢了。

I think there is it's the founder of School of Life, amazing creator and thinker, and he says, you're not embarrassed by who you were two years ago, you're not growing fast enough.

这话说得可能有点极端，但对我来说，衡量自己作为创作者的成长，就是希望每次回头看看，都能觉得今天本可以做得更好。

And, you know, that could be a little extreme to some extent, but I think that I look at my growth as a creator of I wanna always feel like when I look back, I know that I could make it so much better today.

我从来不希望回头时觉得，我最巅峰的时刻早就过去了。

I don't ever wanna look back and feel, oh, my my prime was back then.

你知道吧？

You know?

我总希望自己一直在进步，所以我看待每一件事，都会问自己：怎么才能当个更好的写作者？

I wanna always feel like I'm improving, and that's how I look at everything that I do is how can I be a little bit better of a writer?

怎么才能拍得更有电影感，同时又更真实？

How can I capture something both in a more cinematic way, but also more real?

这些细枝末节其实都是不断的尝试和调整，我这么说是因为我从自己的角度出发，但其实我们整个团队都在这么做。

You know, how do I like all of these little things are constant experiments and tinkerings that I'm I'm saying me because I'm speaking from my own perspective, but us as a team we're doing.

我们团队有十个人在做这个，我现在经常带着项目到处跑，我们总在想，怎么才能再深入一点？

Cause there's 10 of us making this, you know, and I'm co traveling a lot now with stuff on, and we're always thinking about how do we go deeper?

怎么才能把边界再推得更远一些？

You know, how do we push the limits more?

我们怎么才能真正提升风险，就是我们自己也不知道接下来会发生什么？

How do we up the stakes for real by us really not knowing what's gonna happen?

我觉得确实如此。

And I think yeah.

我觉得这是一段旅程，始终保持着新鲜感，带着对这个世界真实的好奇去探索，同时也探索创作过程中，怎么才能让这一切更有趣？

I think it's a journey of always keeping it exciting and following the genuine curiosity that we have for the world by exploring it, but also in the creative process of exploring how can we how do we keep this fun?

我们怎么才能保持警觉？

How do we stay on our toes?

怎么拍一次完全不同的镜头，搞个全新的开场？

You know, how do we do a different shoot a completely different intro?

怎么为这一期彻底重新设定它的分量？

How do we, you know, set the stakes for this one completely differently?

我们怎么去一个从来没人拍过视频的地方？

How do we go to a place that no one has made a video here before?

我们也不知道会不会有人在乎这个。

We don't know if people will care about this.

我们怎么才能让别人在意呢？

How do we make people care?

我们怎么去喜马拉雅的采蜜人那里，然后让人对这件事产生兴趣？

How do we go to this, you know, the honey hunters in the Himalayas and figure out how to make people care about that?

听起来关键是真实地去享受这个过程，感受它真的不一样。

Sounds like authentically, how do we actually enjoy this experience and feel that it's new?

我们之前和乔什·理查兹一起参加过一个论坛，他说过一句特别深刻的话。

We were with Josh Richards on a panel, and he said something really profound.

你知道乔什·理查兹是谁吗？

Do know who Josh Richards is?

不用知道乔什是谁。

Don't need to know who Josh

理查兹，好的。

Richards Okay.

当

When

TikTok火起来的时候，他是早期的代表人物之一，以跳舞和紧跟潮流出名。

TikTok really broke out, he was one of the early faces of TikTok and, you know, famous for dancing, following trends.

你随便看看他以前的内容，会觉得：哎，这也没什么特别的才华吧？

And you could easily look at his old stuff and think like, Oh, this is not much talent here, right?

你一看他那些早期视频，就会觉得，不过是个长得帅的小伙子在追热点罢了。

Like you could easily look at some of that early stuff and think like, This is just like a good looking kid following early trends.

但他这些年的成长真的很大。最近我们上同一个论坛，有人问他：‘你给创作者的一条建议是什么？’

And he's evolved a lot in his career, but recently we were on this panel and he was asked, what's your one advice for creators?

我当时心里其实有点瞧不上他，心想：Josh Richards能有什么高见讲给这屋子里的人听？

And I think I may have like judged him in my head a little bit thinking like, what does Josh Richards have to say to this room?

结果他说：‘如果你做内容的时候都不开心，怎么指望别人看的时候会开心呢？’

And he said, If you're not having fun making it, how can you expect people to have fun watching it?

这话真是一针见血。

And it's so true.

特别有深度。

It was really profound.

观众一下子就能感受到。

Like the audience feels that immediately.

当你到了一个新地方时，关键是要想：我该怎么换个方式去体验它？

And that has to do with you when you get to a new place going, how can I experience this differently?

我该怎么设计一个全新的开场？

How can I make a new intro?

我该怎么真正地沉浸其中？

How can I actually have a true experience?

这种对真实的追求，甚至在我们最近的视频里，很多评论都说：我能感觉到你拍得很开心。

And that pursuit of real is even something that in our most recent video, a lot of the people in the comments were like, I could tell you had a good time.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我最喜欢的一条评论是：我能看出你们拍得特别开心，因为我们确实拍得很开心。

That was my favorite comment was I can tell you had a good time making this, because we did have a good time making it.

那天特别棒。

It was a great day.

那天特别开心。

It was a fun day.

我超爱那个视频。

I love that video.

对。

Yeah.

太棒了。

It's amazing.

谢谢兄弟。

Thanks, man.

这种对真实的追求总在出现。

This pursuit of real keeps coming up.

对。

Yeah.

这感觉像是AI才带来的新现象，但实际上，这正是优质非脚本娱乐的核心。

And it can feel like it's a new thing that's happening because of AI, but it's also the basis of good unscripted entertainment.

我们很容易把‘真实’和像《Hot Ones》那样的策略搞混。

And I think it's easy to look at real and get confused with strategy like Hot Ones.

对吧？

Right?

《Hot Ones》之所以这么棒，是因为它设计了一个机制——也就是策略，来激发人们真实的反应。

Like the reason Hot Ones is so great is because it came up with a mechanism, which is strategy, to make people real.

用特别辣的辣酱，让人产生本能的、发自内心的真实反应。

Like really hot sauces that made people have visceral real reactions.

我觉得现在连贾斯汀·比伯在科切拉音乐节上的表现，更是把这推到了新高度。

I think it goes even further to right now with Justin Bieber at Coachella.

我知道萨米尔写过这事，但有个瞬间，比伯在舞台上刷YouTube视频，网速太差，一直缓冲。

I know Samir wrote about this, but there's a moment when Bieber is on stage at Coachella, and he's pulling up YouTube videos, and it's buffering because he's not getting good internet.

那一刻，我觉得现场十五万人心里都忍不住想：天啊，这真是太真实了。

And that's one moment where I think everyone there, 150,000 people are like, oh my God, what a real moment.

我觉得，不管你现在制作什么类型的内容，核心都是追求那种真实自然的瞬间。

And I think that extends no matter what type of content you're making right now, is the pursuit of like an honest moment.

完全没错。

100%.

这正是我觉得你在描述你们团队时所体现出来的——

And that's what I feel like you even just in you describing your organization Yeah.

努力为自己创造这样的条件。

Try and set yourself up to do.

没错。

Yeah.

每次我们带新人出去旅行，他们都会说：‘我根本没想到会是这样。’

It's every time we bring someone new on a trip, they're like, I didn't realize it was like this.

真的就是这样的。

It was like this.

你懂的。

You know?

我们最近来了个新摄像师，他特别惊讶，说：你们居然不知道接下来会发生什么？

Like, we had a new videographer recently who was shocked at how, like, re like, he was, oh, it's it's like, you guys don't know what's happening?

我们说：当然不知道。

We're like, no.

我们就是打算今天自己去摸索出来。

Like, we're gonna figure it out today.

结果我们碰到了一个特别棒的人，你懂的。

And we ended up meeting an amazing character that you know?

但我们去那地方的时候，完全没底，不知道会遇到啥。

But we went to the place having zero idea what was gonna happen.

我说，老兄，我还记得咱们那次去陌生人家办派对的事。

I mean, dude, I remember when we did that throwing a party at a stranger's house.

对啊。

Yeah.

我当时还以为人家都安排好了，咱们就去敲敲门，拍几个镜头就行。

I remember I was like, oh, they probably have it all planned, and we'll, like, go shoot a couple scenes where we, like, knock on doors.

然后我记得我们在威尼斯，突然想到，等等。

And then I remember we were just out in Venice, and it was like, wait.

我们真得去说服萨布丽娜，让她同意我们在她家办派对？

We actually have to convince Sabrina for real to let us throw a party at their house?

这太让人尴尬了。

That's so uncomfortable.

然后我才意识到，这回是来真的了。

And then I was like, oh, this is this is real.

我觉得科林说得对，真人秀刚出现的时候，那确实是真实的。

And I I think to Colin's point, when reality TV first started, it was real.

对。

Mhmm.

那时候的现实世界，第一季真的就是真实发生的。

Like, the real world, the first season of that was real.

但问题在于，一旦你意识到某种模式在起作用，这种意识很快就会破坏真实性和真诚。

The challenge is once you become aware of something that's working like, awareness cuts reality pretty quickly, right, and cuts honesty pretty quickly.

因为一旦你知道了，比如我发现你的做法有效，然后我也去模仿你，这某种程度上也是YouTube的基础。但这样一来，我的版本就没那么真实了，因为我是在复制你的版本，接着你又去一遍遍复制别的东西。

Because, like, once you know, once I see that what you're doing is working and I try and do what you're doing, which is kind of the basis of of YouTube in some way, shape, or form, then mine version is much less real because I'm trying to replicate your version, and then, you know, you're trying to replicate something over and over.

对。

Yep.

我很喜欢追求真实这个概念。我觉得这里面有两面，一面是策略层面。

I I I like that concept of, like, the pursuit of real Because I I I think there's there's one side, which is the strategy side.

我们已经被各种策略淹没了。

We've been inundated with strategy.

刷刷YouTube的Shorts或者Instagram的Reels。

Scroll YouTube shorts or Instagram reels.

你会看到开头就是大字标题，这种设计就是为了牢牢抓住你的注意力，特别有套路。

You're gonna get an opening shot with big text, and, like, it's just, like, so strategic to capture your attention.

另一方面，我觉得我们几年前聊过的那个话题，现在听起来比任何时候都更真实，那就是这个世界的荒谬感越来越强了。

The other side is, I think, a conversation we had a couple years ago now, but it feels more true today than ever, which is the increase of absurdity in the world.

比如，你早上醒来看到白宫发了一段AI生成的视频，或者一些拿战争开玩笑的梗图，这时候你对荒谬的敏感度自然就提高了。

Like, when you can wake up to the the White House posting, an AI generated video or memes kind of poking fun at war or something, then your sensitivity to absurdity has gone up.

每一天都一点点、一点点地变得更糟。

Every day goes up a little bit, a little bit, a little bit more.

就说去年吧，我还记得那天查理·柯克在威尼斯灯塔被刺杀，人人都在手机上刷着这个新闻。

I mean, even to the point where within the past year, I remember sitting here on the day that Charlie Kirk was assassinated here at the lighthouse in Venice, and everybody had it up on their phones.

大家都在刷Instagram和TikTok，眼睁睁看着一个人死去。

Everybody was scrolling through Instagram and TikTok watching this, watching somebody die.

可不到五分钟，你再环顾四周，所有人都又回去干活了。

And then I think within five minutes, you look around and everyone has gone back to work.

你退一步想想，就会发现互联网已经让我们对荒诞变得麻木了。

And you take a step back and you're like, we're at a moment in the Internet where we have become very desensitized to absurdity.

而互联网上真正闪亮的，是那些真实而积极的人际互动，但这样的时刻实在太难得了。

And I think the bright light on the Internet is when you see, like, real human interactions that are positive, but those are really hard to come by.

而且，正因为咱们对荒诞太敏感了，这些真实的东西反而没那么吸引人。

And again, they're not as appealing because of our sensitivity to absurdity.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得现在活着真是挺奇怪的。

I think it's a very strange time to be alive.

就像你说的，看完那种事，还能照常过日子。

And as you said, you can watch something like that and then resume your day.

这种经历真的很怪，我觉得我们每个人都在默默见证着。

It's a very strange experience that I think we're all witnessing, like experiencing quietly.

是的。

Yeah.

我们所有人都这样活着，然后就得接着往前走，你知道吧？

We're all living like this and then just having to resume, you know?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我们根本没怎么讨论过这件事：你随时可能看到或听到一些特别离谱的东西，刚在洗手间门口等了五分钟，转头就继续干自己的事了。

Don't think we're talking about it very much of like, you can see some pretty wild stuff or hear some wild stuff or get exposed to a lot of things, and then just that's just now that that was like five minutes while you're in line for the bathroom, and now

然后你就接着往前走了。

you're moving on.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得创作是我对抗这个世界疯狂的良药。

I think creating is my medicine for the madness in the world.

对我来说，做这件事是一种疗愈的过程。

Like, I think it's a healing experience for me to do it.

我希望通过讲述真实的故事，来抵消一部分这种荒诞。

And I hope to try to counteract some of this by telling stories that are real.

这就是我的目标。

That's my goal.

这正是我努力的方向。

That's what I'm aiming for.

因为我觉得，活在当下确实是个很奇怪的时代。

Because I think it is a strange time to be alive.

我觉得人们也对这种荒诞变得麻木了，同时可能也厌倦了那些虚假的表演。我们都渴望一些真实的东西，因为现实世界本身已经不够真实了。

And I think people are also desensitized to the absurdity, but also I think tired of the performativeness of some I think we're all craving something that feels real because the the base world doesn't feel real.

自从疫情以来，一切都感觉不太对劲。

Everything feels strange since COVID.

就像活在另一个平行时空一样。

Feel like it's like a different timeline.

我觉得每个人都想找到点什么，让人重新感受到人性，感受到彼此之间的联结。

And I think everyone is searching for something to make us feel human and to make us feel connected to each other.

某种程度上，社交媒体反而让我们彼此更加疏远了。

And I think in some ways social media has made us feel very disconnected and very separated from one another.

我希望更多创作者能受到启发，去讲真实的故事，因为我觉得在未来的AI世界里，这反而是脱颖而出的方式，更重要的是，它能为这个世界带来真正的正面影响。我最欣赏的创作者，就是那些在这么做的人。

And I think I hope that more creators will be inspired to try to tell real stories and to see that as a way to, I think, stand out in this future world of AI, but I think also as a way to actually bring something positive to the world, and my favorite creators are the ones who are doing that.

你能感觉到那是他们本人在表达，但同时你也得清楚平台的规则。

You could tell it's them doing it, and there you have to be aware of the platform.

我依然会关注工作室的动态。

You have to you know, I still look at studio.

我依然在意视频的播放表现，但起点永远是：我真正好奇的是什么？然后，我该怎么用最真实的方式把它呈现出来？

I still care about how the videos perform, but it starts with what am I genuinely curious about, and then how do I do it in the realest way possible?

当然，总会有一些创作者特别擅长优化，做得特别出色。

And, you know, there'll always be creators who will hyper optimize and do great.

但我更希望新来的创作者能从真实的创作热情和好奇心出发，而不是一上来就想着怎么优化，把优化当成工具，用来思考怎么把自己真正喜欢做的事变成能吸引人的内容。

But I think I wish for more new creators to start from a place of genuine creative expression and curiosity, more than starting from the place of optimization, and more so having the optimization as like a toolkit that they're using to then think about how do I turn what I love making into something that can click?

因为你终究还是得这么做。

Because you have to still do that.

对吧？

Right?

你可是尝试过好多疯狂的点子。

You've done a lot of crazy ideas.

你去过世界上好多地方。

You've gone to a lot of places in the world.

你是怎么展望未来的，心里有数了吗？

How do you look forward and go, oh, I know.

我会继续给大家展示那些他们从没见过的东西。

I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep showing people things they haven't seen before.

因为我每次看到你的封面图，都是我从来没见过的东西。

Because I feel like every time I look at one of your thumbnails, it's something I've never seen before.

你是怎么一直做到这一点的？

How do you keep doing that?

去年你做了25个视频，总共获得了七千五百万的播放量。

Like, last year, you made 25 videos or you uploaded 25 videos to the tune of 75,000,000 views across them.

我真不知道有这个数据。

Like I didn't know that stat.

是的。

Yeah.

你是怎么保持这种状态的？今年你计划得怎么样？

How do you how do you keep like, even this year, are you you're like, how planned out are you?

你脑子里有多少个点子？

How many ideas do you know?

你怎么找到那些还没人做过的东西？

Like, how do you find the things that haven't been done before?

我花了很多时间。

I spent a lot of time.

每天我都在想点子，天天都在想。

Every day, I'm thinking about ideas every single day.

我一直在找，现在要让我觉得惊艳或兴奋，可不容易了。

Always looking, and it takes a lot now for me to be impressed or excited about an idea.

没错。

Right.

因为我已经听过成千上万的点子了。

Because I've heard tens of thousands.

我自己也想出了成千上万个点子。

I've come up with tens of thousands myself.

所以现在我对什么是好点子的要求很高，必须能激起我真正的好奇心。

So I think my bar for what a great idea is is quite high at this point, and I think it has to peak some genuine curiosity.

里面得有那么一点东西，让我心里一惊：这我还没见过。

There has to be something in there that I go, I have not seen that.

或者我们可以用一种前所未有的方式来做这件事。

Or I think we could do it in a way that it hasn't been done before.

比如去年，我们拍了一个关于东京漂移地下圈的故事，我当时根本没想到还能跟他们一起拍。

For example, last year, we did a story about the Tokyo Drift underground scene, and I didn't know it was possible to even film with them.

之前从来没人真正拍出过那种感觉。

It had never been really captured properly.

我有个朋友在法国，他的YouTube频道特别棒。

And I had a friend who's got an amazing YouTube channel in France.

他叫西蒙·普雷西，他跟他们一起做了个片子，拍到了一些画面。

His name is Simon Preci, and he he did a story with them and captured some of it.

他本身就混在这个圈子里，这让我看到了一个我根本没想到会存在的机会。

And he basically had an in with that world, and that opened up a whole opportunity that I didn't even know was possible.

所以现在，我花了太多时间去挖掘那些独特的地方，我觉得自己挺擅长找这种地方的，也清楚在自己的流程里该怎么做，才能发现那些还没人碰过的内容。

And so I think at this point, I've just spent so much time digging for unique places that I think I'm good at finding them, and I think I know what I need to do in my process to find things that haven't really been explored or or done before.

所以我经常一头扎进各种冷门的角落里。

So I spend a lot of time in random rabbit holes.

有时候我就在谷歌地图上一刷就是好几个小时。

Sometimes I'll just spend hours on Google Maps just scrolling around.

我心想，这地方怎么是个岛？

I was like, what is this island here?

太棒了。

Like, yay.

我整整花了好几个小时。

I spent hours.

我放大一看，心里嘀咕，这是哪儿？

Like, I'll zoom in, and I'll be like, what?

点进去一看，有几栋房子，再一查，原来是个特别偏僻的科研站。

And I click on it, and I and I see there's a few houses, and then I'll look it up, and it's like a really remote scientific research station.

我们现在正想办法申请去那里。

And we're trying to get permission to go to this one place.

简直不可能办成。

It's like impossible.

从来没人被允许去过那里。

No one's ever been allowed to go.

这完全是出于我刚才

That's just from I just

想象中画面一转，就到了约翰尼·哈里斯家，他也在做完全相同的事。

imagined like a match cut to Johnny Harris's house, and he's doing the exact same thing.

约翰尼·哈里斯也有同样的爱好。

Johnny Harris has the same hobby.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我有时候跟约翰尼聊天，就会想，哇，我们确实都这样。

And and I feel like sometimes when I talk to Johnny, I'm like, wow, we must yeah.

没几个人会这样坐着发呆。

Not a lot of us that sit and yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

现代人

I Modern day

我的意思是，约翰尼的水平完全不一样。

of I mean, Johnny is in a whole other level.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得他在地图这方面，你知道的，特别厉害。

I think he's he's like, you know Yeah.

在地图领域他绝对是顶尖的，但我只是觉得。

Up there when it comes to maps, but I I just yeah.

地图先生。

Mister Maps.

我会花非常多的时间刷地图，找各种地方，放大查看，我们很多创意就是这样来的，因为一不小心就掉进别人还没探索过的深坑里了。

I spend, a very absurd amount of time scrolling, looking for stuff, zooming into places, or and so that's how we come up with some of the things that we come up with because we just end up down rabbit holes that people haven't really explored before.

而且确实如此。

And yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我想找个例子来看看，好跟你聊聊你是怎么呈现这些想法的。

I wanna I wanna pull up an example because I wanna talk through, like, how you've presented these ideas.

你之前提到的那支关于日本的视频，叫《日本地下漂移黑幕：东京漂移》。

One of one of the most that your your video of that you just mentioned in Japan is called Inside Japan's Illegal Drifting Underworld Tokyo Drift.

那支视频表现非常出色。

It did very well.

有六百万人观看了这支视频。

6,000,000 people watched that.

最近表现最好的一支视频是八个月前发布的，讲的是一个 paranoid 国家，境内有三十七万四千一百四十二个掩体，用来藏匿所有人。

And then one of the highest performing videos recently is from eight months ago, and it's exploring the paranoid country with 374,142 bunkers to hide

所有人。

everyone.

很棒的视频。

Great video.

你能

Can

详细讲讲这个想法本身，还有你是怎么呈现它的吗？

you just talk through both the concept and the presentation of the concept?

当然。

Yeah.

首先，说到约翰尼，我确实受到他的启发，他之前做过一个关于瑞士和它的掩体的故事。

Mean, first of all, talking about Johnny, definitely got inspiration from him because he had done a story about Switzerland and its bunkers and whatnot.

所以这个视频确实受到了他的启发。

So that video was was inspired by him for sure.

我觉得掩体这个概念有点荒谬，我们是唯一一个害怕自己毁灭的物种。

And I just this concept of bunkers is a bit absurd to me that we are the only species that are like afraid of our own destruction.

这些掩体，说到底是为了保护自己免受彼此伤害。

You know, these bunkers are to protect ourselves from each other.

你知道吗，二战期间瑞士人特别担心被德国占领，于是建了足够容纳全国人口的掩体，而且一直保留着，还不断新建。

You know, in Switzerland, during World War II was so paranoid about being conquered by Germany that they built enough bunkers to fit literally the entire country, and they've kept them so and built more.

现在你开车经过瑞士，几乎每座山里都有隧道和掩体，随时能躲进去，这事儿听起来特别荒谬，尤其是想到瑞士一向那么和平。

So now they have an insane like, when you drive through Switzerland, every mountain has, like, tunnels in it with bunkers that people can hide in, which is a very absurd thing, especially when you know, and when you think about Switzerland, how peaceful it is.

这种反差让我觉得特别有意思——我原本以为瑞士是世界上最和平、最中立的国家。

So the contrast there was interesting to me was, wait, this is like a place that I imagined to be the most peaceful neutral country in the world.

一开始，这些掩体跟我对瑞士的印象完全对不上。

The bunkers to me came at odds initially.

但后来我明白了，对他们来说，这些掩体其实是一体的，因为这让他们感到自由和安全得到了保障。

And what I learned during the experience is that they actually come together because for them, it feels to them, it's a protection of their freedom and of their safety.

他们知道，只要一有危险，所有人随时都能撤进山里。

It's to know that at any moment, if anything happened, they can all retrieve into the mountains.

每个瑞士人都有自己专属的掩体。

And every Swiss person has a bunker assigned to them.

真的吗？

No way.

你知道万一出事该去哪儿。

Like, you know where you're supposed to go if something happens.

不过现在有些年轻人并不清楚自己 bunker 的位置，但只要打个电话，就会告诉你具体在哪。

And some of the younger generations now don't always know where they are, but there's a number you can call, and it tells you, oh, yeah.

你的避难所就在这里。

Your bunker is here.

从七十年代起，大多数新建的房子都在地下室建了避难所。

And most of the houses built since the seventies, I believe, have a bunker in the basement.

我们的摄影师是瑞士人。

So our videographer is Swiss.

他叫昆廷。

His name is Quentin.

他妈妈家的地下室里就有个避难所，是盖房子时一起建的。

He's got his mom has a bunker in her basement that was built as a part of the house.

对普通人来说，那儿平时就放放自行车之类的东西。

And for the average person, they just store their bikes and stuff there.