共和党市政厅会议变得火药味十足。一位国会议员仍坚持举办。

这里是《纽约时报》，我是迈克尔·比尔巴罗。您正在收听的是《每日播报》。

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Bilbaro. This is The Daily.

美国人民所看到的，东华盛顿州人民所看到的，是特朗普总统正在兑现他的承诺。因此

What people of America see, what people of Eastern Washington see is president Trump delivering on his promises. And so

从爱荷华州到纽约，共和党国会议员们在公开市政厅会议上，面对关于其政党议程的尖锐提问时显得力不从心，这些会议往往演变成激烈的争执。

From Iowa to New York, Republican members of Congress have struggled to answer tough questions about their party's agenda in open town hall meetings that have turned angry.

但我认为拜登政府制造了道德风险，他们放任美墨边境成为重要的

But what I view is the moral hazard created by the Biden administration by allowing The US Mexico border to be a significant

并在网络上疯传。

and gone viral.

所以我们这些人都还没真正活着，就都要死去了。以至于

So we people are not alive when we all are going to die. So much so

共和党领导人已告知议员们彻底停止举行市政厅会议。但至少有一位共和党人无视了这一建议。

That Republican leaders have told lawmakers to stop holding the town halls altogether. But at least one Republican has ignored that advice.

我会保持可见度。我会保持可联系性。

I will be visible. I will be accessible.

今天，内布拉斯加州的国会议员迈克·弗勒德将探讨美国政治传统的消逝，以及为何对他而言，这一传统仍值得保留。

Today, congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska on the disappearance of an American political tradition and why for him, it's still worth preserving.

能为您服务是我的荣幸，能在美国国会为您效力更是我的殊荣。

It is an honor to serve you and a privilege to serve you and the United States Congress.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

今天是8月18日星期一。早上好，议员先生。

It's Monday, August 18. Good morning, congressman.

你好吗？

How are you?

我很好。你呢？

I'm well. How about you?

不错。抱歉我迟到了几分钟。我住的地方和选区办公室之间的道路施工太多了，今天多花了些时间。

Good. Sorry I was running a few minutes late. There's so much road construction between where I live and my district office. It took me a little longer today.

这似乎是你应该能解决的问题。我需要

That seems like something you should be able to solve. I need

去找州政府解决其中一些问题。对，锥筒摆放。锥筒摆放。

to go to the state government to solve some of those problems. Right. Cone placement. Cone placement.

国会议员能做的也就这么多了。

There's only so much a member of congress can do.

可不是吗？

Isn't that true?

议员先生，感谢您抽空与我们见面。我很感激。

Congressman, thank you for for making time for us. I appreciate it.

是啊。

Yeah.

首先请允许我说明一下我对即将讨论的话题——市政厅会议的个人兴趣。我在《纽约时报》担任政治记者多年，参加过数百场市政厅会议。我一直认为这是我们政治体系中非常特殊的一部分，是民选官员与选民面对面交流、直接回答问题的独特机会。

Let let me just start by explaining my own interest in the subject we're gonna be talking about, which is town halls. I spent most of my career here at the Times as a political correspondent, and I think I've probably attended hundreds of town halls. And I've always seen them as a pretty special part of our political system, a unique chance for elected officials to come face

真正实现与选民零距离接触，切实回答问题。根据我的经验，

to face with voters, actually answer questions. In my experience,

这确实创造了公平的对话环境。由于现场所有人都注视着官员回答问题并评估其真诚度，这种形式自带问责机制。我见证过许多官员精通市政厅会议形式，比如克里斯·克里斯蒂，他将'严厉的爱'风格带入市政厅，赢得了新泽西州民众的喜爱，并因此成为全国政治明星。但如今贵党质疑这种传统在当今政治环境中是否仍有意义，并基本认定其已过时。

it really levels the playing field. And there's this built in accountability system because everyone in the room is watching the elected official answer those questions, and it's evaluating them for authenticity and for candor. And I've watched elected officials master the form of the town hall. I think a lot about Chris Christie who would bring this tough love approach to a town hall, and he charmed people across New Jersey, and he became a national political star in the process. But now your party is questioning whether this tradition still makes sense in today's political environment and has basically concluded that they don't.

然而您仍坚持举行市政厅会议，不顾党内领导层的反对。我特别想了解这对您为何如此重要。我认为需要追溯源头，看看是否与您的个人经历有关。您记忆中第一次参加市政厅会议是什么情形？

And yet, you have kept doing them against the advice of leaders in your party. So I really wanna understand why town halls are so important to you. And I think that means going back to the beginning and understanding if that's in any way personal for you. What is your first memory of attending a town hall if you have one?

请允许我先简单说明我的性格形成背景，然后再讲述我印象最深刻的那场市政厅会议。

Well, let me give you a little background, if I may, just on how I'm built, and then I will give you an example about the town hall I remember the most.

当然。

Sure.

我成长在一个民主党活跃的家庭。母亲是州中央委员会成员，父亲在内布拉斯加一个共和党占优的地区当选县检察官。记得1980年他开车带我去投票站时——虽然我当时没有投票权——我问：'共和党和民主党有什么区别？'

So I grew up in a home with two very active Democrats. My mom was on the state central committee. My dad was elected county attorney in a very Republican area of Nebraska. I remember he was driving me to the polls in 1980 with him. I wasn't going to vote, but I asked him, What's the difference between Republicans and Democrats?

他回答说：'民主党代表穷人，共和党代表富人。'那一刻我就决定：'那我要当共和党人。'

And he said, Well, Democrats are poor and Republicans are rich. And right there, I was like, Well, I'm gonna be a Republican.

您当时大概多大年纪？

How old were you at the time, if you recall?

那时我五岁。到了1986年，我11岁时，内布拉斯加州有一场非常独特的州长竞选。这是美国历史上首次有两位女性候选人互相竞争。我父亲在院子里竖了海伦·布萨利斯的竞选牌，而我则放了凯·奥尔斯的牌子。凯是共和党人，海伦则是民主党人。

I would have been five. And then in 1986, when I was 11, we had a very unique gubernatorial contest in Nebraska. We had two women running against each other for the first time in American history. And, my dad had Helen Boussallis' sign in the yard and I had Kay Oars sign in the yard. Kay is the Republican, Helen was the Democrat.

我告诉父亲，我想去两小时车程外的奥马哈参加凯·奥尔斯的筹款活动，因为——他对此大笑不已。

And I told my dad, I want to go to Kay Oars fundraiser at Omaha two hours away, because And I had gotten an he laughed about it.

你耍了点小聪明

You had finagled as

作为孩子拿到了这个邀请

a child an invitation to this.

其实我上了某个名单。他们肯定不知道我才11岁，但我因为做过一些呼叫中心的工作被列入了名单。父亲开车送我过去，但不愿停在房子前面怕被人看见。他在三个街区外放下我，我独自走进去——那一刻我就彻底爱上了这种氛围。

Well, I got on some list. I'm sure it was they didn't know I was 11, but I got on some list because I had done some call center work. And my dad drove me down there, but he wouldn't park in front of the house because he didn't want to be seen. So he dropped me off three blocks away, and I walked in by myself and I just loved it. I loved everything about it.

所以成长过程中，我一直对民选官员与选民之间的互动充满兴趣。

And so growing up, I was interested in the interaction between elected officials and their constituents.

不过

But

当我思考市政厅会议时，最先浮现的是2003年2月的经历。林肯市的州参议员罗恩·雷克斯提议废除内布拉斯加州所有的单间校舍乡村学校。我去了瓦胡市，现场挤满了愤怒的乡村居民。

when I think about town halls and I think about the first real experience I saw, this would have been in 02/2003, a state senator from Lincoln, Ron Rakes, was proposing to eliminate all of the one room schoolhouses across Nebraska, the rural schools. And I went to Wahoo, Nebraska, and the place was packed with angry rural Nebraskans.

没错，他们不愿看到学校被关闭。

Right. Who did not want to see their schools closed.

不愿看到他们的小学校关闭。罗恩·雷克和其他州立法教育委员会成员坐在长桌尽头，让每个人发言。我目睹了泪水、尖叫，看到人们陷入绝望——这关乎他们的生活方式。

Did not want to see their small schools closed. Yeah. So Ron Rake sat up there at the head of a table with the other members of the Nebraska Legislature Education Committee, and he let everybody speak. And I saw tears, I saw screaming, I saw people that were just despondent. I mean, this was a way of life for them.

他们的孩子正在接受优质教育，而他却在改变这一切。我显然反对他的做法，但他坐在那里，恭敬地倾听每个人的意见，让所有人都能发声。你知道，这种情况持续了大约三个半小时。当我目睹这一切时，我说，这就是我理想中的场景。这就是我想从事的工作。

Their children were getting this great education and he was changing it. And I was definitely against what he was doing, but he sat there and respectfully listened to everybody and everybody got their say. You know, and this went on for, like, three and a half hours. And when I saw that, I said, this is everything I wanted it to be. This is the job I wanna be in.

尽管过程可能很痛苦。

As painful as it probably was.

是的。对我来说，见证人们行使抗议权利及其产生的力量，是非常震撼的。

Yes. It was very powerful for me to witness the people, you know, exercising their right to protest and the power that it had.

既然你如此重视市政厅会议，那么当今年早些时候，全国共和党国会委员会建议像你这样的共和党议员基本上停止举行这类会议时，你是怎么想的？在他们看来，这开始制造太多负面新闻，并成为民主党活动人士的绝佳目标——许多这类人士会出现在共和党人的市政厅听众席上。这感觉很不寻常。我们都记得在现代政治史上，市政厅会议曾失控的时刻，比如茶党时期，民众对奥巴马总统的医保计划愤怒不已。

Well, given the importance that you so clearly place on on town halls, what did you think when the National Republican Congressional Committee advised Republicans advised, basically, lawmakers like you earlier this year to basically stop having them. Because in in their minds, it was starting to create just too many negative headlines, and it was becoming too rich a target for Democratic activists, many of whom end up in the audience when Republicans have these town halls. That felt like a really unusual thing. I think we can all remember when town halls have gotten out of hand in modern political history. I'm thinking about the Tea Party era when folks are furious at president Obama over his health care plans.

但我记不起两党中有哪一方曾说过‘市政厅会议到此为止，不再举行’这样的话。所以当你听到这个指示时，第一反应是什么？

But I can't recall a moment when one of the two parties said, that's it for town halls. No more of these. So what was your first thought at that directive? What was your reaction?

我当时想，天啊，我下周已经安排了一场。这就是我的第一反应。

I was like, oh my gosh. I have one scheduled for next week. That was my first thought.

取消已经来不及了。

Too late to cancel.

是啊，来不及取消了。

Yeah. Too late to cancel.

我的意思是，你有没有考虑过取消？哪怕一分钟？

Did I mean, did you, for a minute, consider canceling?

有那么一瞬间，我想过，我不想违逆众议院领导层。懂吗？我是个团队合作者，我以做正确的事和赢得同事尊重为荣。所以当然会考虑这个问题。

Well, for a brief second, was like, I don't wanna run afoul of the House leadership. You know? Like, I'm a team player. I pride myself on wanting to do the right thing and to build the respect of my colleagues. And so, of course, I'm gonna think about it.

但我接替的国会前任是福特伯里主厨，他十七年来每年都举办市民大会。所以当我参选时有人问我，我说，是的，我会每年举办三次市民大会。

But the guy that I replaced in Congress was Chef Fortenberry, and he had town halls every year for seventeen years. So when I was running and somebody asked me, I said, yes, I will do three town halls a year.

这就是你作为候选人时的承诺。

So that's the commitment you made as a candidate.

对，对。这在很多方面是内布拉斯加人的期待。所以我一回到办公室就告诉我的幕僚长：你最好让领导层知道我们要举办这些市民大会，第一场就在下周，而且我们不会取消。

Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that Nebraskans expect in a lot of ways. And so by the time I got back to my office, my message to my chief of staff was, You better let leadership know that we're having these town halls, and the first one is next week, and we're not canceling it.

首先我想说，我认为市民大会是民主进程的重要组成部分。这就是民主，是我们彼此沟通的方式。今晚是我倾听你们、向你们学习、回答问题的机会。但我想让你们知道，我是以此为准则的。

I want to start by saying that I believe that town halls are an important part of the process. It's democracy. It's how we communicate with each other. Tonight is an opportunity for me to listen to you, to learn from you, to answer your questions. But I want you to know I'm guided by this.

这对我真的很重要，我想对我们所有人都是。金，不如你开始吧

This really matters to me, and I think it matters to all of us. Kim, why don't you start

今天的第一个问题？

with our first question today?

我们来谈谈你今年举办的市民大会，自从你决定继续举办后，它们的氛围和反响如何。你今年三月底召开首场市民大会时，特朗普突然重返政坛。他签署了大量针对律所的行政令，开始打压大学，甚至声称要废除宪法第十四修正案保障的出生公民权。

Let's talk about your town halls this year and what they felt like, what they've sounded like since you decided to keep holding them. When you opened up your first town hall this year, it was late March, Trump is suddenly back in office. He's got a slew of executive orders against law firms. He's starting to go after universities. He's claiming the right to end birthright citizenship even though it's guaranteed in the fourteenth amendment.

道奇公司开始解雇数千名联邦雇员。局势非常动荡。考虑到这些，你对这些市民大会可能出现的混乱场面有心理准备吗？

Doge has started it's firing thousands of federal workers. There's a lot going on. So with that in mind, do you have any idea just how raucous these town halls are gonna get?

你是说第一场大会之前？

Going into that first one?

嗯。

Mhmm.

不。

No.

事情是这样的。那36万亿美元的数字不会凭空消失。除非我们解决医疗保险和医疗补助的问题，否则它不会消失。让我们保持冷静。

Here's the deal. That $36 $36,000,000,000,000 number is not going away. It is not going away unless we deal with Medicare and Medicaid. Let's remain calm.

那是在哥伦布市

It was in Columbus

让我们保持

Let's remain

冷静。那是我妻子出生、长大的小镇，位于我所在位置以南四十五分钟车程。

calm. Town my wife was born in, raised in, a town forty five minutes south of me.

这是我们作为一个国家必须面对的问题。

And this is something we have to do as a country.

无法预料

Couldn't have predicted

这个问题不会自行消失。

This doesn't go away.

事情会发展成那样。

That it would have gone like that.

一个平衡的预算——你怎么能反对平衡预算呢？你怎么能反对平衡预算呢？好吧。

A balanced budget where we how can you be against a balanced budget? How can you be against a balanced budget? Alright.

埃隆·马斯克每年从联邦政府获得400亿美元的资助。你认为他会先削减这部分资金，还是先削减我们的医疗保险、社会保障或工作岗位？

Elon Musk gets $40,000,000,000 a year in funding from the federal government. Do you think he would cut that before he would cut our Medicare or our Social Security or our jobs?

我支持埃隆·马斯克和政府效率部门。

I support Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency.

当一切结束时，我感到震惊。

And I think when it was over, I was stunned.

你想传达什么信息

What message are you sending

还有点麻木。老实说，这就是我的真实感受。是的。

And a little numb. That's my honest that's honestly how I felt. Yeah.

你无法阻止燃烧的磁带。

You can't stop the tape on fire.

我认为你的高中公民课老师不会认可这种行为。

I don't think your high school civics teacher would endorse that behavior.

在返回诺福克的45分钟车程中，我一直在脑海中回放所见所闻的一切。

And on the drive back to Norfolk, which is forty five minutes, I was just replaying in my head everything that I saw and I heard.

你们做了哪些实事来让人们认清特朗普如何违法？

What are you doing to be real with people about how Trump is breaking the law?

然后我回到家

And away I got home and

你和国会打算何时收回你们的责任？

When are you and congress going to take back your responsibility?

不得不先消化一下所有事情。

Had to kinda just process everything.

你们什么都没做。谁在撒谎？他们还是你？为什么要这样对待你们的选民？

You have done nothing. Who's lying? Them or you? Why are you doing this to your constituents?

你们什么时候才采取行动？这就是我们的现状。

When are you going to do something? This is where we're at.

你们宣誓过。我们需要实际行动。

You have an oath. We need actual action.

你们准备捍卫什么？

What are you gonna stand up for?

这很有趣，因为感觉你们在这些市政厅会议上收到的许多问题，尤其是早期的，潜台词都是：国会现在在哪里？特别是国会共和党人作为制衡力量在哪里？面对一位行使着现代史上任何总统都未曾有过的巨大权力的总统。有一个质询让我印象深刻。

It's interesting because it felt like the subtext of a lot of the questions you were getting in these town halls, especially early on, is where is congress right now? Where in particular are congressional Republicans as a check on a president who is exercising a greater level of power than any president in modern history. And and there's one inquiry that stood out to me.

是的。我的问题关于你们的就职宣誓。到目前为止，你们已经将国会所有权利让渡给行政分支。如果你们不作为

Yeah. My question is regarding your oath of office. So you have up until now abdicated all of your rights as congress to the executive branch. And if you don't act as

制衡和投票

a check and a ballot

提问结束时这位选民说道

The question ended with this voter saying

国会的确切目的是什么？

What exactly is the purpose of congress?

你存在的意义到底是什么？

Why do you even exist?

我并未推卸过《美国宪法》赋予我的任何责任。我认为某些指责是夸大其词的，而且——

I have not advocated any responsibility I have under the constitution of The United I think some of that is overblown, and let

让我告诉你原因。有种观念认为，如果你要行使监督权或制衡机制，就必须在东部时间9点通过CNN或福克斯新闻进行。如果我要划红线，我不会在电视上划，而是会与真正负责政府相关事务的人直接交涉。

me tell you why. There's this idea that if you are providing oversight or your the checks and balances, that it has to be done on CNN at 09:00 Eastern, or Fox News at 09:00 Eastern. If I'm going to draw a red line, I'm not going to draw it on TV, I'm gonna draw it with the people that are actually in charge of their part of the government.

你是说这些是幕后进行的？

You're saying it's unseen?

处理问题的人能看见这些行动，只是不公开进行而已。

Well, it's seen by the people that are dealing with the issue, it's just not done for public purposes.

当我发现我认为不对的事情时，我会采取行动，公开反对并坚持立场。我还要明确声明：我投票支持唐纳德·特朗普，也支持他担任总统。过去四个月里，他在解决国家根本问题上的作为远超前任总统，我坚信这一点。我特意大声说出来，就是要留下公开记录。

When I see things that I do not think are right, I work on them, I speak out against them, and I stand up. I also and I'm gonna say this loud and clear. I voted for Donald Trump, and I support Donald Trump as president. He's done more to address the root issues of this country in the last four months than we saw from our prior president, and I believe that. And I wanna say that out loud so that I'm on record doing that.

好吧。

Alright.

你确实在回应选民时说过，遇到不认同的事会发声。但具体来说，特朗普第二任期内的任何举措，你有公开反对过吗？

Well, did say that in your answer to this constituent, that you do speak out when you don't like something. But let's get specific. Have you spoken out against anything Trump has done in the second term specifically?

有。国家气象局预算削减。这个联邦机构对位于龙卷风走廊的内布拉斯加州至关重要。我走访这些办公室时发现人员减少了40%。

Yeah. National Weather Service cuts. National Weather Service is a vital federal agency for Nebraska because we are in Tornado Alley, you know? I'm visiting these offices, and they're down 40%.

没错。

Right.

这对我来说是值得誓死捍卫的原则问题。关乎公共安全。所以我成功推动了此事，他们后来重新雇用了人员，这就是一个例子。

And this was a hill to die on for me. Like, this was public safety. And so, you know, I was successfully able to get this going, and since they've hired back people, so that would be one example.

嗯。为什么在市政厅面对选民时你不提这事？当时没想过要说吗？听着，我抗争过。我成功恢复了国家气象局的这些岗位。

Mhmm. Why did you not say that at the town hall when you're speaking to to voters? Did did it occur to you to say that? Look, I pushed back. I've I I got these jobs restored at the National Weather Service.

我在某次会上提过。但你知道，谁愿意和哗众取宠的人共事？重点是解决问题。问题解决了我就谢天谢地。

Yeah. I did at one of them, but, you know, like, who wants to work with a grandstander? You know what I mean? Like, the goal is to fix the problem. And I'm happy as hell that it got fixed.

用'哗众取宠'来形容反对自己不喜欢的事挺有意思。我想你明白我的潜台词——在特朗普第二任期，尤其是共和党议员，似乎都害怕公开与总统意见相左。当被问及放弃职责时，在这些市政厅会议上，你总是刻意强调对总统的尊重，反复声明'要说得响亮清楚'。

Well, grandstanding is an interesting word for what speaking out against something you don't like is. And I think you may know where I'm headed here. In the second Trump presidency, it feels like lawmakers, especially with the Republican Party, are fearful of publicly getting crosswise with the president. And when you were asked about abdicating your role, when you were asked about specific policies, you, in these town halls, tend to specifically go out of your way to emphasize how much regard you have for the president. And you say, wanna make that loud and clear.

我投了他的票。我的直觉对吗——你某种程度上在避免踩雷，不想在市政厅惹祸上身，不愿成为总统怒火的对象？这种环境是否束缚了你？听起来确实如此。

I voted for him. I mean, am I right to intuit a certain level of, I don't wanna step in it in this town hall, and I don't wanna become the subject of the president's ire? Does that constrain you in this environment? It sounds like it does.

我支持总统。但2022年2月进入国会后，65%时间都在处理惩罚内布拉斯加各界的行政规章，农民、牧场主、银行都在受害。1月20日带来的解脱正是我投票支持的。我要的就是创新变革。

I am supportive of the president. I mean but when I got to Congress in 02/2022, 65% of my time was dealing with agency rules and regulations that were punishing all sorts of folks in Nebraska, whether it be farmers, ranchers, banks, you name it. And the relief that came on January 20 is what I voted for. Like, that's what I wanted. I want innovation.

我欢迎所有新思路。我和特朗普总统行事风格相同吗？应该不同。但我觉得必须表明：我支持特朗普总统和马斯克的作为，因为联邦债务和开支是我最关切的问题。

I want all of these new ideas. Do President Trump and I have the same demeanor? Probably not. I think it's fair to say that we don't. But I thought it was very important that I say, Listen, I support President Trump and I support Elon Musk in doing what they're doing because the federal debt is a big issue for me and the spending is a big issue for me.

虽然具体处理方式未必合我意，但整体财政支出方向很重要。

And although the way it was approached at all times wouldn't have my preference, I think that the overall arc of what we're doing in terms of spending is important.

我听到现场有人问：你到底有没有任何反抗？他们本质上是在问——我也代他们问——除了国家气象局，总统还有什么举措让你感到不安吗？

What I heard were some people in that room saying, where are you pushing back at all? And I think, essentially, what they're asking, and I'd ask it on their behalf, is is there anything besides the National Weather Service, for example, that the president has done that has concerned you?

关税问题确实让我担忧，因为它给我们的经济带来了不确定性。嗯。但你看他第一次竞选时，就成功应对了这种情况。所以我们对此抱有期待。我是说，这其中确实有些门道。

Well, tariffs concern me because it introduces uncertainty Mhmm. Into our economy. But you look at the first time he ran, he made it work. So we're counting on that. I mean So there there's something.

简单直白地说，你觉得你能真正坦率地表达对特朗普总统行为的不满吗？尤其是在有摄像机拍摄的公开场合，人们都在寻找那些可能引发热议的瞬间？

Just just to put it really plainly, do you feel like you can be truly candid in any disapproval that you have of president Trump's actions, especially in a public room where cameras may be rolling, people are searching for viral moments?

我明白，如果你突然越过界限说'不，我不同意'，对吧？对我来说，这样做必须基于坚定的信念。我需要知道我的团队立场如何。

I understand that if you pop over the hedge and say, nope. I don't agree with that. Right? For me to do that, I have to be convicted in what I'm doing. I want to know where my conference is at.

你不能单枪匹马地冲锋陷阵。有时候他只是随口一说，对吧？比如占领巴拿马运河。嗯。把恶魔岛重新变成监狱。

You don't come over the hill with no one. And sometimes he just says things, right? Like seizing the Panama Canal. Mhmm. Turning Alcatraz into a prison again.

你知道，就像，别上钩。要着眼于你真正想实现的目标。比如我正在推动住房改革。我每天都为此工作，研究那个法案，与人讨论那个法案，这是两党合作的。我知道有些人会乐见他们的代表每天越界表态。

You know, like, don't take the bait. Like, look at what you're trying to accomplish. Like, I'm trying to get housing reform going. I go to work every single day and I work on that bill, and I'm talking to people about that bill, and it's bipartisan. And so I know that it would make some people on the left love every minute of seeing their member up over the hedge every single day.

但你不能因为部分选民对某件事愤怒就每天划新的红线。他是我所在政党的领袖，这需要平衡。

But you don't get to have a new red line every day just because a subset of your constituents are livid about X. He is the leader of the party that I'm in, and there's a balance.

我会继续举办公开会议。我会继续亲自到场，感谢各位的到来。晚安。好的。

I will continue to do town halls. I will continue to show up in person, and I wanna thank all of you for coming. Good night. Okay.

离场时请从左边的出口离开。不要原路返回

When you exit, please go out the exit right here on your left. So don't go back

从进来的路出去。我们

out the way you came in. We'll

马上回来。

be right back.

今晚我对大家的要求如下。我知道你们中有些人感到愤怒，有些人感到沮丧。让我们以此为全国树立一个典范，展示我们如何就美国的未来展开讨论，既能探讨问题，也能同等重视解决方案的构想。因为归根结底，我的职责就是尽我所能代表你们所有人。为此，我想简短结束我的发言。

Here's what I ask of you tonight. I know some of you are angry. I know some of you are upset. Let's make this a model for the nation and how we can have a discussion about the future of America and we can talk as much about ideas and solutions as we do identifying the problems because ultimately, it's my job to do the best job I can representing all of you. With that, I wanna cut my remarks short.

我想直接进入问答环节。

I wanna get right into questions and answers.

让我们回到国会责任——也就是你们责任——这个话题上来。

Let me get back to this idea of congress's responsibility, your responsibility.

您好，弗拉德议员。我认同您对国家债务的担忧，但目的不能为手段辩护。能否请您

Hello, congressman Flood. I share your concern for our national debt, but the ends do not justify the means. Can you please

您在市政厅与某人交流时，对方问及总统庞大国内政策法案中的一项条款——他称之为'宏伟完美法案'——该条款本将严重削弱联邦法院的权力。

You had an exchange with someone at a town hall who asked you about a provision of the president's giant domestic policy bill, one big beautiful bill as he refers to it, that would have seriously curtailed the power of the federal courts.

能否解释您为何投票支持包含第70302条的预算案？该条款实质上禁止联邦法院执行藐视法庭令。您

Can you please tell us why you voted to approve a budget bill that includes section seven zero three zero two, which effectively prohibits federal courts from enforcing contempt orders. You

没有告知我

didn't tell me

这正是我的问题。我只得到十五秒发言时间。

that was my question. I only got fifteen seconds.

而藐视法庭令是联邦法官在行政部门违抗法院时，追究其责任的唯一工具。

And contempt orders allow federal judges to hold the executive branch accountable when they defy the courts. It's really their only tool.

这将导致现政府及未来政府通过废除执行机制，得以无视那些藐视法庭令。

Which would then allow current and future administrations to ignore those contempt orders by removing the enforcement capabilities.

我不同意后来添加到那项法案中的那个条款。我投票支持该法案时并不知道这项条款的存在。好吧。

I do not agree with that section that was added to that bill. This provision was unknown to me when I voted for the bill. Okay.

下一个问题。下一个问题。

Next question. Next question.

我不会隐瞒真相。我投票支持那项法案时确实不知道这项条款。而且当我...

I am not gonna hide the truth. This provision was unknown to me when I voted for that bill. And when I

那么你对这位选民议员说的是，你当时不知道法案里有这个条款——大概是因为你在投票前没有通读整个法案。不得不承认这点是什么感受？你确实承认了，你投票支持了自己并不完全理解的内容。

And what you told this voter congressman is that you didn't know that provision was in the bill, presumably because you didn't read the entire bill before you voted for it. So how did it feel having to kind of admit that? Which you did, that you voted for something you didn't quite understand.

这里有两件事。我确实读过法案。我投票支持了那份宏大而美好的法案。我投票到凌晨七点左右。然后我登上了飞机。

Two things here. I did read the bill. I voted for that one big beautiful bill. I voted until like seven in the morning. I got on a plane.

我回到内布拉斯加州的家中。当时是晚上九点半。内布拉斯加法律界有人打电话问我：你知道法案里有这个吗？我回答：你在说什么？

I went back home to Nebraska. Now it's 09:30 at night. Someone in the legal community in Nebraska calls me. And like, did you know this is in the bill? I was like, what are you talking about?

就是那个条款。于是我查了资料。我上过法学院，作为全科律师执业二十年。就算你把那七行字读十五遍——除非你是专门在联邦地方法院处理宪法类案件的律师（我从没在联邦地方法院工作过）。

Well, this section. So I pull it up. I went to law school. I practiced as a general practitioner for twenty years. You can read those seven lines 15 times, and if you aren't a practitioner in a federal district court on issues like constitutional issues, like I've never been to federal district court.

那个条款的表述方式，让我不得不去查阅圣母大学法学院教授的文章才真正理解其含义。了解真相后我非常难受。我本不想让这种条款存在。我丝毫不想削弱联邦地方法院的权力。这触及了我的底线。

And the way that provision was written, I had to go to an article written by a Notre Dame law professor to really understand its import. And after I did those things I felt terrible. I didn't want that in there. I didn't have any interest in defanging the federal district courts. And that was a red line for me.

说实话，我很感谢这个问题。唯一的解决方式就是诚实相告，向选民说明这件事对我的意义。我不会隐瞒，也无法为之辩护。这件事没有回旋余地。

And honestly, I appreciated the question. The only way through that was to be honest and to tell him how much that meant. I wasn't going to hide it. I couldn't defend it. There was no way around it.

嘿，你们为什么嘘我？我只是实话实说，承认自己连最基本的工作都没做到位。

Hey, why are you guys booing me? I'm just telling you I didn't do the bare minimum of my job.

没错。那一刻基本上病毒式传播了，虽然不一定是好事。

Right. That moment when basically viral, not necessarily in a good way.

在你自己选民面前这样辩护绝不是好兆头——我当时没读到那个版本。

Is never a good sign in your defense to that in front of your own constituents was, I didn't read that version.

听着，说实话我不知道哪种更糟——他是真的如此疏忽大意，还是像欣森那样因为认为特朗普应该当国王才投的票。

Listen. I don't know what would be worse, honestly. If he was really this negligent or if he voted for it because he thinks Trump should be a king, like Hinson does, apparently.

这不像23andMe的用户协议，你可以闭眼签完字就突然多了个当乌兹别克寡头性奴的克隆人。这些法案可是正经事。

It's not like a 23 and me terms of service agreement where you can just blindly sign it, and now there's a clone of you who's a sex slave for an Uzbek oligarch. Unlike that, these bills are important.

我大儿子布伦南说：'爸，你没看法案内容吧？'我说：'漏看了，布伦南。哇哦，我真漏看了。'

My, you know, my oldest son, Brennan, said, dad, you didn't read the bill. I said, missed it, Brennan. Wow. I missed it.

他肯定也在网上某个地方看到过这个场面。

He must have seen this moment as well somewhere on the Internet.

噢当然。他为此肯定被嘲笑了。要说这事让我困扰——确实很困扰。发现问题的第二天我就召集团队，联系了参议院司法委员会。

Oh, yeah. And, you know, he got ridiculed for that, I'm sure. So to say it bothered me, it really bothered me. The next day after I figured that out, I called my staff. We got a hold of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

我们向他们标出问题。内布拉斯加州议会设置三轮审议的原因，就是要筛除那些后期才发现有问题的条款。

We flagged it for them. And the reason we have three rounds in our unicameral is that things get in bills that you end up figuring out what their real import is, you take them out.

这是立法

This is part of the

程序的一部分。我投票通过的并非法律，而是提交参议院后被修正的议案——最终版本我投了赞成票。这说明程序是有效的。

process of lawmaking. What I voted for was not a law. I voted for a bill that went to the Senate and that was stripped out, and I was able to vote for it. So it worked. The process worked.

但我想，像这样的时刻是否有助于你理解为什么市政厅里的一些人会如此愤怒？你能明白他们的出发点吗？

But I guess I'm just does does a moment like this help explain to you why some of the people in these town halls were so upset? Could you understand where they were coming from?

是的。来参加市政厅的人本来就带着不满情绪。我的意思是，他们接收的新闻和信息往往来自有倾向性的电视台，就像共和党人从有倾向性的网络获取信息一样，真正无党派的信息并不多。所以他们一开始就是带着怒气来的。

Yes. We've got people to come to these town halls that are upset to start with. I mean, they are receiving all of their news and information oftentimes from a television network that has a slant, just like Republicans are receiving their news and information from a network that has a slant, and there's not a lot of nonpartisan information that comes. So they come angry to start with.

然后他们听到像你这样真诚的国会议员说，我不知道我投票的法案会在总统已经违抗法庭的时刻削弱司法权力。

Well, and then they hear their congressman, as earnest as you are, saying, I didn't know that I was voting for a bill that was going to neuter the courts at a moment where the president is already defying

他们。

them.

是的，我理解。但唯一的解决办法就是告诉他们真相。你知道吗？那晚我睡得比很久以来都要好，因为我没有退缩。

Yeah, I get it. I get it. The only way through that, though, is to tell them the truth. And you know what? I slept better that night than I had in a long time because I didn't blink.

尽管人们会愤怒，会因此感到不安，但这不也正是他们想要的吗？他们希望你站出来。他们希望你在那里。我还要补充一点。是的。

And as mad as people are and as much as people can get upset about that, isn't that kind of what they also want? They want you to stand up. They want you to be there. One thing I'd add here. Yeah.

刚才的对话正是两党政客不愿举办市政厅的原因。因为这些场合真实、直接，是美国最能让政客负责的地方。

That exchange right there is the reason why politicians on both sides of the aisle don't want to do town halls. Because these things are real, they're raw, and they are as accountable as anything else in America.

晚上好，林肯。非常感谢你们今晚的到来。我知道很多人排了很长时间的队。我知道很多人特意为此而来。事情是这样的。

Well, good evening, Lincoln. Thank you very much for being here tonight. Know that many of you stood in line for a long time. I know that many of you have made this a a point to be here. And here's the deal.

所以我对国会议员说，在你今年最后一场市政厅会议上——这场会议是在这项被称为'一项伟大而美丽的法案'正式通过后举行的。

So And I said Congressman, in your final town hall this year, which you held after this bill, the one big beautiful bill as it was known, officially passes.

我想直接谈谈这项法案，因为我知道很多人对此有疑问。好的，我们就从这里开始。我们就从这里开始。

I wanna go right into this bill because I know this is something a lot of people have questions about. Okay. Let's start here. Let's start here.

那时选民的愤怒似乎达到了沸点。

That's when voter anger seems to reach a fever pitch.

是的。首先，我请求你不要把那可怕的提案称为'又大又美的法案'。虽然那确实是提案的名字。

Yes. First of all, I'd ask you please not to refer to that monstrosity as the big beautiful bill. It's the name of the bill, though.

那么你如何证明剥夺78,000名内布拉斯加州居民的医疗保险是合理的？

So how can you justify taking health care away from 78,000 Nebraskans?

正如我之前解释的，这项法案是为了保护医疗补助计划的未来。

As I explained before, this bill protects Medicaid for the future.

人们正在询问你关于削减医疗补助的事。

People are asking you about cuts to Medicaid.

为什么你要削减补充营养援助计划和医疗保健研究经费？

Why did you cut SNAP and health care research?

我们美国没有无限的资金。

We do not have unlimited money in The United States.

针对食品券。SNAP计划。

To food stamps. Snap.

我看到这项新法案将数万亿美元的财富从工薪阶层美国人——包括此刻坐在这个房间里的人——转移给甚至不住在本州的亿万富翁们。

And I see this new bill that transfers trillions of dollars of wealth from working class Americans, people that are sitting in this room, to billionaires that don't even live in this state.

所以我的问题是，我知道我为谁工作，但你们为谁工作？我的问题是，你读过这个法案吗？我读过。我读过这些法案，

And so my question is, I know who I work for, but who do you work for? So my question is, did you read the bill? I read the bill. I read the bills,

你确实非常努力地论证了这项立法对你的选区有益。

And you worked really hard to make the case that this legislation is good for your district.

如果我们没有通过这项宏伟的法案，内布拉斯加州的每个家庭将面临1600美元的增税。这才是真正的中产阶级减税。请翻到下一页。

If we didn't pass the big beautiful bill, it would have been a $1,600 tax increase to every Nebraska family. That is a true middle class tax cut. Next slide, please.

你在台上讲解法案内容的样子像个大学教授。

You look like a college professor on that stage talking about what's in this bill.

这里有人对我投票削减2万亿美元预算感到不满。但即便如此，共和党比以往任何时候都更代表工人阶级的核心与灵魂。你们在喝倒彩。

People in here are upset with me that I voted to cut $2,000,000,000,000 in spending from the budget. But still. The Republican party, now more than ever, represents the heart and soul of the working class. You're booed.

法西斯主义要付出多少代价？纳税人要为法西斯国家支付多少成本？

How much does it cost for fascism? How much do the taxpayers have to pay for a fascist country?

你们在起哄。

You're jeered.

法西斯分子不会举办开放式问答的市政厅会议。

Fascists don't hold town halls with open question and answer series.

所以我很好奇。作为如此重视这种形式的人，那次活动的价值是什么？有任何价值吗？

So I'm curious. As someone who sees so much value in this format, what was the value in that? Was there any?

当然有价值。因为我认为这对愤怒的人们有宣泄作用。而且我也从中有所收获，明白吗？人们没意识到，当你站在台上面对众人时，我看到有些人可能对那个宏伟法案不满，但他们在乌克兰问题上支持我。这些非语言信息我都看在眼里。

Yeah. There's value because I think it's cathartic for the people that are so upset. And I get something out of it, you know? People don't realize when you're standing on stage and everybody's looking at you, I see people that maybe are upset about the one big beautiful bill, but they are with me on Ukraine. And I see that in the nonverbal.

我看到有人担忧民主的未来，当我说'法西斯分子不办市政厅'时他们在微笑。这种双向交流只有站在愤怒人群面前的民选官员才能体会。如果我没在林肯市举办市政厅，那将是对我选区最大城市的侮辱。每次市政厅前，我都会出去和入场群众握手。克里斯·克里斯蒂说过，近距离时很难产生恨意，对吧？

I see people that are worried about the future of democracy, and they are smiling when I say fascists don't hold town halls. There's a communication back and forth that only the elected official gets to see when you're talking to a crowd of people that are upset. Had I not done a town hall in Lincoln, it would have been a slap in the face to my biggest city in my district. And before each town hall, I go out and shake the people's hands coming in, you know? Chris Christie says it's hard to hate up close, right?

于是我走上前与每个人握手，得到了很多反馈。但握手时有几个人对我说：‘谢谢你意识到我们也属于内布拉斯加。’起初我有点困惑，他们是什么意思？确实，去这些共和党人居多的乡村社区很容易。作为一个在小镇长大的人，我以前也有过这种感受。

So I go up and I shake everybody's hands, and you know, I get a lot of feedback. But one of the things I heard a couple times when I was shaking people's hands was, Thanks for realizing that we're in Nebraska, too. And at first I was like, What are they talking about? And it's easy to go to these rural communities where there's more, you know, Republicans. And as somebody who grew up in a small town, I felt that way before.

比如，我真的属于内布拉斯加吗？难道一切不都只关乎奥马哈和林肯吗？所以当林肯的人们说‘谢谢你来到这里举办活动’时，感觉就像在说‘看，我们也是内布拉斯加的一部分’。

Like, am I really part of Nebraska? Isn't all this just about Omaha and Lincoln? And so to have people from Lincoln say, thanks for coming here and doing it here. Right. We're in Nebraska too.

这是你选区里民主党支持者最集中的角落。

This is your most Democratic corner of your district.

是啊。我觉得这是种赞美。就像在说‘我在这里，我们正在做这件事’。

Yeah. I thought, That's a compliment. You know? Like, I'm here, and we're doing this.

虽然他们是在感谢你，但借用克里斯·克里斯蒂的话——仇恨近在咫尺。在那个房间里，近距离的仇恨似乎并不难感受到。

I say that they were thanking you, but the hate, to quote Chris Christie, was up close. It was not hard to hate up close in that room, it seems.

没错，但那700人中可能只有100人情绪激动。我全程都保持着冷静和处事方式。我们就这样度过了。进场前我就说过：‘让大家保持自己的平静’。

No, that's true. But that was maybe 100 people of the 700 that were that upset. And at no time did I ever lose my cool or my mode of operation. We just kind of went through it. And I did say going in, said, Hey, let people stay at their peace.

我不希望有人被强行拖出去。这不是我们的初衷。如果他们选择这种方式表达，那是他们的选择。但如果我不敢站在自己最大城市的中心，问题怎么可能改善？

I do not want people drug out of here. That is not what this is about. If this is the way they want to do it, that's the way they want to do it. But if I'm not willing to go stand in the middle of my biggest city, how does anything ever get better?

好的。下一个问题。能听到我说话吗？

Okay. Next question. Can you hear me?

能听到。我是海外战争退伍军人协会的终身会员。

Yes. I'm a I'm a lifetime member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

你知道，在苏厄德有个人走过来对我说

You know, I had somebody come up to me in Seward and say

邮政服务，我是

Postal service, which I'm

你知道，他是一名57岁的邮政工人。

You know, he's a 57 year old postal worker.

你投票支持了削减社会保障补贴的预算法案，这是我们福利的很大一部分。这些是我们应得的福利。我们为这些福利工作。明白吗？

You you voted for a budget bill that cuts the Social Security supplement, which is a large portion of our benefits. And and these are benefits that we've earned. We work for these benefits. Okay?

我们做了一个他退休制度中可以接受的改变，但法案中还有其他不利的内容。

We had made one change that he was fine with in his retirement system, but there was something else in the bill that wasn't good.

我需要了解你具体情况中的确切项目，以及当前形式的法案对你产生的具体影响。

What I need to understand in your situation is the exact program that you're on and the exact impact that the the bill in its current form is having.

我们57岁就有资格退休，但62岁才能领取社会保障。所以你投票的法案取消了57到62岁期间的过渡补贴，这在我们那个年龄段的退休金中占很大比例。我很乐意

We're eligible to retire when we're 57, so we're not eligible for Social Security till we're 62. So what what the bill that you voted for does erases the 57 to 62 supplement that gets us to it, which is a large portion at that age of our retirement. I'm happy

与你坐下来详谈。我愿意研究这个问题。我会获取相关信息，并尽最大努力为你争取权益。这是我对你的承诺。

to sit down with you. I'm happy to look at it. I will get the information, and then I will do my best to act on your behalf. That is my pledge to you.

我们回访了。给他打了电话确认理解无误。最后能告诉他：这个问题已经解决了。人们看不到这些幕后工作。

We went back. We called him. We made sure we understood it. And we were able to tell him, hey, that has been resolved. People don't see the casework that comes out of these things.

但说实话，我根本不会知道那个57岁邮政工人的问题。完全不可能想到。是他通过市政厅会议让所有人注意到了这件事。

But, you know, I would have never known about that issue with a postal worker that's 57 years old. There's no way Right. I would ever have dreamt that. But he came to a town hall, and he put it on everybody's radar.

但我还是想知道，当这些市政厅会议消失时，对选民意味着什么？如果你们党派多数人都回避这种形式，是否会失去某些重要的东西？

But I guess I'm still wondering what it means for constituents, for voters when these town halls go away. If most of your party is avoiding this format, does something important get lost?

首先，这种现象减少的原因是，两党都有选民表示沮丧，因为他们无法通过尊重的双向对话获取信息——这些人本是为寻求问题答案而来的。所以许多发出嘘声的人，恰恰是给他人制造障碍的源头。

Well, first, will say the reason you see less of these is that you have constituents that attend on both sides of the aisle that say they're frustrated at their inability to have to glean information from a respectful back and forth dialogue because they're actually there to try and get answers to the questions that they have. So a lot of the people that are doing the booing are the ones that are creating the challenge for others.

但是，

But,

国会里每个人工作方式不同，这符合我的风格。其他人通过其他方式与选民沟通可能更高效。我有些同事确实面临人身安全顾虑，而我没有——这是事实。

you know, like, everybody does their job differently in Congress, and this fits my way that I do it. Others are way more productive in different ways communicating with their constituents. And some of my colleagues have legitimate safety issues that I don't feel like I have. That is legit.

确实。回到你犹豫是否取消市政厅会议那一刻——如果今年这三场都取消，会失去什么？那位57岁的邮政工人如何表达他的诉求？

Right. I mean, I mean, back to that moment when you hesitated about whether to cancel your own town hall, what do you think would have been lost if you had canceled all three of them this year? Right? I mean, how would that 57 year old postal worker have gotten his concern across?

价值显然是存在的。很多人看到了却不认可，也没人讨论其中真正的价值。

Obviously, there's value. You know? Like, think a lot of people see it. They don't think it has any value, and nobody's talking about the value that's there. You know?

共和党人和民主党人能共处一室一个半小时，虽有争吵，但我能阐述观点、解释投票、与选民实质辩论；他们也得以问责并表达感受——这对美国是好事，我们都从中获益。

It's good for America that we have Republicans and Democrats that can spend an hour and a half in a room together, and yeah, there's some shouting and yelling, but I got the chance to say what I wanted to say. I got the chance to explain my votes. I got the chance to essentially debate with a few of my constituents. And they got the chance, in their eyes, to hold me accountable and to tell me how they felt. We all got something out of it.

无论对错，或许有更好的方式。我参与这类活动多年，希望作为美国传统，它们能长久延续下去。

So right or wrong, maybe there's a better way to do this. I've been going to these things for a long time, and I hope that as Americans, they continue for a long, long time.

听起来你明年会继续举办市政厅会议。回想你年轻时的那些会议，虽然也有情绪，但不像现在这样——学校关闭时人们会愤怒，但他们会直接骂议员是法西斯吗？

It sounds like you're going to keep holding town halls next year as you have this year. And I'm thinking back to the town halls you talked about when you were a young lawmaker. And and and, clearly, there was emotion in them, but I don't think it looked like this. I mean, yes, when people were having their school shut down, they were emotional, and they were upset. Were they calling the lawmakers fascists?

你在某次会议上曾呼吁将其打造成全国对话典范。如今这样的会议形态，你认为反映了民主制度的什么现状？我们当下的对话能力说明了什么？

I don't I mean, I'm seeing you nod. No. And what I'm really asking is you said in one of your town halls, you urged voters to make the town hall that you were about to embark on a model of discussion for the rest of the nation. So what do you think it says that your town halls went the way that they did about the nature of our democracy, the nature of our ability to have conversations right now? What does it say to you?

确实紧张，但这不代表多数人的立场。媒体总聚焦于喊'法西斯'的人，这取悦一半美国人，却让另一半反感。但与那些认为政治是消遣、事不关己的群体相比，我和抗议者反而有更多共同点——这才是真实的美国。

It's certainly strained. But it's also not representative of where I think most of the people are. I mean, the media grabs on to that person that's screaming fascist, and it delights one half of America, and it repulses the other half of America. But I have more in common with those screaming protesters than I do the rest of America that thinks that politics is a hobby, doesn't affect them, and they don't pay any attention to it. Like, this is America.

我的每个决定都会影响到他人。

This is every decision I make affects somebody.

所以你对这种激情产生了一种勉强的钦佩——正是这种激情驱使某人来到市政厅那样大喊你是法西斯分子。

So you have kind of come to a grudging admiration for the passion that leads someone to come to a town hall like that and scream you're a fascist.

当然。因为他们在意。对吧？

Course. Because they care. Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

有些人在美国生活，照顾家庭，却对世界发生的任何事情毫不关心，只活在自己的小圈子里。而那位骂我是法西斯分子的女士并不活在那个泡泡里。她对自己的信念和国家走向非常投入。她出现了，而且言辞激烈。这就是市政广场该有的样子。

There are people that can live in America and take care their family and not give one ounce of thought to anything that's happening in the world other than the bubble that they live in. And the lady that's calling me a fascist is not living in that bubble. She is very invested in her beliefs and where she thinks the country's going. She showed up, and she's spicy. Like, that's the town square.

这就是政治。这就是我们的工作。如果我认为自己的投票是正确的，我就应该毫无顾虑地站在市政广场上捍卫它们。而我确实这么做了。

That's politics. That's what we do. That's like, if I think that my votes are the right votes, I should have no problem standing in the town square and defending them. And I did that.

好的，议员先生，非常感谢。我们很感激。

Well, congressman, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

我的荣幸。

My pleasure.

我们稍后回来。以下是今日其他要闻：截至周日，越来越多迹象表明特朗普总统已背离欧洲盟友的原则，在上周五与普京的峰会上站在了俄罗斯一边。峰会期间，特朗普采纳了普京的观点——为结束俄乌战争，乌克兰必须通过直接和平协议放弃领土，包括俄罗斯未占领的土地，而非先尝试停火。这令欧洲官员感到震惊，他们认为该方案将俄罗斯的目标置于乌克兰之上。

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. By Sunday, there was growing that president Trump had broken from the principles of his European allies and sided with Russia during his summit on Friday with Vladimir Putin. During the summit, Trump adopted Putin's view that to end the war between Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine must give up territory in a direct peace deal, including land unoccupied by Russia, rather than first trying for a ceasefire. That has alarmed European officials who believe that the plan prioritizes Russia's goals over Ukraine's.

周日，德国、法国、英国、意大利和芬兰领导人表示将于今日前往华盛顿，与乌克兰领导人泽连斯基一同会晤特朗普。他们称此行的目的是建立对抗俄罗斯的统一战线，并试图说服特朗普放弃支持普京的观点。本期节目由Asta Chaturvedi和Rob Zibko制作，Michael Simon Johnson和Alex Stern协助，Lindsey Garrison与Maria Byrne编辑，Will Pischel事实核查，Chris Wood负责音频工程。《每日新闻》到此结束。

On Sunday, leaders from Germany, France, Britain, Italy, and Finland said that they would travel to Washington today to join Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy for a meeting with Trump. Their goal, they said, is to present a unified front against Russia and to try to persuade Trump to back away from Putin's views. Today's episode was produced by Asta Chaturvedi and Rob Zibko with help from Michael Simon Johnson and Alex Stern. It was edited by Lindsey Garrison and Maria Byrne, fact checked by Will Pischel, and was engineered by Chris Wood. That's it for The Daily.

我是迈克尔·比尔巴罗。明天见。

I'm Michael Bilbarro. See you tomorrow.