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网球巨星大坂直美如何放松自己？
How does tennis superstar Naomi Osaka unwind?
新西兰橄榄球传奇球员布罗科托如何在团队中建立凝聚力？
And how does New Zealand rugby legend Brokothoko build camaraderie among his team?
你好。
Hi there.
我是伊莎贝拉·罗西尼尼。
I'm Isabella Rossellini.
在欧莱雅集团出品的《这不是一个美妆播客》最后一集中，我们将与一些世界顶级运动员对话，探讨美如何塑造体育。
And in the final episode of this is not a beauty podcast from L'Oreal Group, we speak to some of the world's greatest athletes to dig into how beauty shapes sports.
立即在您喜爱的播客平台收听。
Listen now on your favorite podcast platform.
欢迎收听周日特辑。
Welcome to the Sunday special.
我是吉尔伯特·克鲁兹。
I'm Gilbert Cruz.
我们在这一年的最后几期节目中，回顾2025年的一些重大文化时刻。
We're spending this last several episodes of the year looking back on some of the big cultural moments of 2025.
今天，我们要聊聊电视。
And today, we are talking about TV.
和我一起探讨今年最优秀的剧集以及最受欢迎的剧集的，是我的两位非常爱看电视剧的同事。
Here with me to consider some of the best shows of the year, as well as some of the most popular ones, are two of my colleagues who watch a ton of TV.
吉姆·蓬诺塞克是我们《纽约时报》的首席电视评论员。
Jim Ponowasek is our chief television critic here at The Times.
很高兴你再次回到我们节目，吉姆。
Pleasure to have you back with us, Jim.
嗯。
Yeah.
很高兴能来。
It's a pleasure
能回到这里真是太好了。
to be back so far.
而亚历克西斯·索洛斯基是我们的一名文化记者。
And Alexis Solosky is one of our culture reporters.
很高兴你再次回到我们这里，亚历克西斯。
Happy to have you also back here with us again, Alexis.
我再高兴不过了。
I could not be more delighted.
我能看出来。
I can tell.
好吧。
Okay.
那么，我们先来做一个小小的填空练习，我请大家一起来做。
So let's start out with a little little fill in the blank exercise, which I'm asking everyone to do.
对于电视来说，2025年是______的一年。
For TV, 2025 was a blank year.
请填空。
Fill in the blank.
我认为这是一个温和进步的年份，很美好。
It was a year of mild improvement, I think Beautiful.
从我的角度来看。
From my standpoint.
好的。
Okay.
当我整理我的年终最佳榜单时，大多数年份都像一场搏斗，努力删减到最后几部作品，才能把名单压缩到10部左右。
When I put together my, you know, end of the year best list, most years, it is a wrestling match trying to eliminate the last few things to get the list down to 10 or some approximation of that.
我想说，去年——虽然不想太贬低2024年——但那是为数不多的几年之一，我基本刚好看好了10部，就很满意了。
I I would say last year, not to crap on 2024 too much, but, was was one of the few years where, you know, I just I basically had 10, and and I was good.
其中一部就是奥运会。
And one of them was the Olympics.
你知道的？
You know?
今年，我认为我们并没有说电视领域是爆炸性的一年，但确实更接近常态，到了最后才艰难地删减掉一些作品。
This year, I think we were I'm not gonna say that it was just a blow the doors off year for television, but it was a much more normal distribution of going down to the wire and cutting things off the list.
所以这对我来说是一个积极的信号，我觉得。
So that was that's that's a positive note for me, I think.
我觉得是的。
I think it is.
我觉得是的。
I think it is.
亚历克西斯，你从不整理或发布至少一份年度最佳榜单。
Alexis, you do not put together or you don't publish at least a best of the year list.
但我相信在你心里，你对今年的整体情况是有感觉的。
But I'm sure in your own mind, you have a sense of how this year was.
你怎么说？
What would you say?
还行。
Fine.
还行。
Fine.
怎么
How
那有多少个结尾？
many ends in that?
挺好。
Fine.
很多。
Many.
我的意思是，升调是关键。
I mean, the rising inflection is key.
还不错。
It was fine.
还不错。
It was fine.
还不错。
It was fine.
当你外出与人社交时，他们问你该看什么节目？
When you are out and about socializing with people, and they say, what should I watch?
我偶尔会给他们推荐一些东西，这其实正是我想要的，你知道的，而不是像2024年那样，总是显得害怕、被逼到角落，连自己的名字都忘了。
I occasionally had some things to tell them, which is really it's really all I want, you know, as opposed to sort of looking scared and cornered and forgetting my own name, which is a lot of how 2024 felt.
所以你们俩今年都看了很多电视节目，我知道你们观察到了一些趋势。
So both of you have been watching a lot of TV this year, and I know you've observed some trends.
我觉得我们应该先聊聊这些趋势。
And I think we should start by talking about those.
吉姆，我们从你开始吧。
Jim, let's start with you.
在你的年终榜单中，你提到有很多关于阴谋的剧集。
In your year end list, you noted that there were a bunch of shows about conspiracies.
它们都是些什么？
What what were they?
随便列出几个名字吧。
Just rattle off some names here.
嗯。
Yeah.
我该从哪里说起呢？
There was where do I start?
《常见副作用》、《分离》、《椅子公司》、《低点》、《普卢里布斯》。
Common Side Effects, Severance, The Chair Company, The Lowdown, Pluribus.
我很想请你谈谈其中一部，因为它不仅适合电视，
I'd love for you to talk about one because it feels not only appropriate for TV,
但也可能适合今年的世界和国家。
but maybe also appropriate for the world, the country this year.
我的意思是，我大概不需要告诉我们的听众，为什么阴谋论在更广阔的世界中产生了巨大影响，无论是阴谋论还是真实的阴谋。
I mean, you know, I don't need to tell our listeners probably all the reasons that conspiracy theories have had great influence in the larger world, conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies.
阴谋是戏剧的绝佳引擎。
Conspiracy is a great engine for drama.
有人在做些什么。
There's somebody doing something.
有什么地方不对劲。
Something is amiss.
但今年我看过的一些最好的剧集，以及更有趣的那些，无论以何种方式，都涉及一个孤独或近乎孤独的主角，试图揭开远超他们自身范围的谜团。
But a lot of the best shows that I watched this year and the more interesting ones, in some way or another, involved often alone or close to lone protagonist trying to unravel something that went way, way beyond them.
这甚至出现在动画中。
And, you know, this was in animation.
也出现在科幻剧中。
It was in science fiction.
在悬疑剧中也有大量这样的内容。
It was in mystery.
其中很多都出现在
There's a there was a lot of it in
水里。
the water.
今年最热门的剧集之一，我们只是稍微提了一下，因为我觉得大家已经听过很多关于《分离》的内容了，它在某种程度上核心就是一场阴谋。
One of the biggest shows of the year, and we just touch on this one because I feel like everyone has has heard a lot about Severance, is is sort of conspiracy at its core in some way.
这是一个在第一季三年后推出的季度，时间间隔很长，但至少在一开始，人们对这一季似乎充满了极大的热情。
This was a season that came three years after the first season, a very long time, and yet there seemed to be, at least at the beginning, a ton of excitement about this one.
是的。
Yeah.
《分离》是那种像哈雷彗星一样罕见的流媒体剧集，每次回归时你都需要重新温习一遍。
Severance is one of those streaming shows that, like, comes around like Hallie's Comet, and you need to do a refresher course whenever whenever it comes back around.
我非常喜欢第二季。
I I I very much liked the second season.
我非常喜欢，以至于把它列入了我年底的十大榜单。
I liked it enough to put it on my top 10 list at the end of the year.
我想你是马克吧。
I suppose you're Mark s.
我有
I've
我是马克。
I'm Mark w.
你们是谁？
Who are you people?
你们是否愿意使用不同的名字，以避免混淆？
Would you be open to using a different first name to avoid confusion?
欢迎回来，马克·S。
Welcome back, Mark s.
你知道，这确实是属于伟大电视传统的一部剧集，像《迷失》之类的剧集，既有像卢门工业这样的阴谋组织元素，也有一个巨大的疑问：这个阴谋到底是什么？它的目的是什么？为什么他们每天都要不停地按这些电脑按钮？
This, you know, truly is is one of the series that that's in the the great TV tradition of shows like Lost, etcetera, where there is both conspiratorial element organization, in this case, Lumen Industries, and also just a big question of what is the conspiracy about, and what is it for, and why are they pushing these buttons on these computers all days?
所以我认为，虽然不如第一季那么出色，但确实是一个令人满意的回报，让我更期待下一季，希望别再等三年了。
So I was, you know, I would say not as stellar as season one, but, like, a welcome payoff that made me want more, hopefully, in fewer than three years.
是的。
Yeah.
这部剧让你印象深刻吗？
Did this stick with you?
如果我稍微持点不同意见的话——只是稍微，因为任何能让山羊有如此重要地位的剧集，我都是支持的。
If I can be mildly contrarian, and only mildly because any show that makes such a place for goats is okay with me.
好的。
Okay.
我们看到让你印象深刻的是
We see what stuck with you as
我通常觉得，至少在第二季中，谜题盒子元素是最不吸引人的部分，这也是我对于谜题盒子类剧集的普遍感受。
the I tend to find the mystery box element, at least in the second season, the least compelling thing about it, which is where I often get to with mystery box shows.
我一开始非常投入。
I'm so engaged initially.
但随后我就只是看着。
And then I just look.
我读小说时，常常会先翻到结尾，然后再回过头来读。
I'm a person when I read books, I often skip to the end and then go back.
所以我只是想尽快知道。
So I just I just wanna know.
我对拖延揭示Lumen工业公司的真相已经不再那么感兴趣了。
I'm I'm no longer so interested in the dragging out of what is Lumen Industries.
他们在制作什么？
What are they making?
他们在做什么？
What are they doing?
我希望他们能直接解开这个谜团，然后我们又能回到紧张的情节、人物关系、喜剧、瓜果派对和山羊身上。
And I wish they would just solve that, and then we would go back to the tension, the relationships, the comedy, the melon parties, the goats.
再多点山羊。
More goats.
再多点山羊。
More goats.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我不是要在这里大谈电视历史课，但我会同意这一点：回想起《迷失》播出的时候，如果你那时在看电视，你会记得《迷失》之后出现了成千上万的剧集，都涉及复杂谜团、谜题和奇怪的随机细节，却忘了这些剧集其实需要让人发笑。
I mean I mean, not not to get all, you know, like, TV history one zero one on this, but I I will agree to the extent that, you know, going back to Lost, if you were watching TV around that time, you recall that what we saw after Lost were, like, 5,000 shows that would involve some kind of convoluted mystery and puzzles and weird random details, but sort of forgot the fact that this show needs to make you laugh.
它需要有引人入胜的角色。
It needs to have engaging characters.
它需要让人感到惊喜，并触动你的情感。
It needs to, like, surprise and hit you emotionally.
对我来说，《分离》是近年来少数几部延续这种风格并做到这一点的剧集之一。
And for me, Severance is one of the few shows since in that mold that has done that.
它讲的是一个谜团，但我更享受看剧中人物之间的关系。
It is about a mystery, but I enjoy watching it for the relationships between the characters.
而且，至少在我看来，第二季并没有失去这一点。
And, you know, it it, to me, at least, it did not lose that in the second season.
吉姆，我很想请你谈谈
Jim, I'd love for you to talk a
一部我不太熟悉的剧集。
little bit about a show that I was less familiar with.
这部剧叫《常见副作用》。
It's a show called Common Side Effects.
这是Adult Swim播出的一部动画剧集，部分创作者来自几年前我非常喜欢的一部动画剧《拾荒者的雨》。
This this was an animated series on Adult Swim, that came, in part from one of the makers of an animated drama that I loved a couple of years ago called Scavenger's Rain.
但这个故事是关于一种蘑菇的。
But this one is about a mushroom.
有一种蘑菇
There's a mushroom
再多说点？
Say more?
有一种蘑菇。
There's a mushroom.
我好像没让你对蘑菇感兴趣。
It I I don't have you hooked on mushroom.
你已经吸引住我了。
I'm you have my attention.
在雨林中，一种古怪的业余科学家、整体疗愈师发现了一种蘑菇。
There's there's a mushroom in the rainforest that is discovered by this kind of kooky amateur scientist holistic healer.
一位业余真菌学家？
An amateur mycologist?
是的。
Yes.
一位业余真菌学家。
An amateur mycologist.
那是一个观点。
That's that's that's a type of point.
格里芬门
Griffing door
或者梦境。
or The dream.
目标。
The goal.
嗯。
Yeah.
到处都是。
Everywhere.
这太神奇了。
It's amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
谢谢。
Thank you.
它能治愈一切，听起来很棒，但这里出现了阴谋论元素：制药公司认为这严重威胁到他们的生意，于是决定将其打压。
And it can cure anything, which sounds fantastic, except and here, the conspiracy element comes in, except for pharmaceutical companies, who see a tremendous threat to their business and decide to shut this down.
好的。
Okay.
弗朗西斯，我能告诉你一个
Francis, can I can I tell you a
秘密吗？
secret?
当然，请说。
Yeah, please.
好的。
Okay.
先跟我走一会儿。
Just go with me for a minute.
如果有一种药能治愈几乎所有疾病，会怎么样？
What if there were a medicine that could heal, like, almost anything?
嗯，那确实很棒。
Well, yeah, that would be great.
当然。
Sure.
是啊。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
但如果他们不想让你知道呢？
But what if they didn't want you to know about it?
他们？
They?
抱歉。
Sorry.
他们是谁？
Who's they?
他们就是大制药公司。
They is big pharma.
是保险公司，是政府。
It's the insurance companies, the government.
想想那些靠让我们生病、让我们持续不适来赚大钱的人。
Think about all the people who make tons of money just from keeping us sick by keeping us unwell.
这正是惊悚片的核心情节。
That's the animating plot of the thriller.
让我着迷的是，它既真实又带有某种幻觉感。
What gets me into it is it is simultaneously realistic and sort of hallucinatory.
它还有一种古怪、非传统的幽默感，我觉得这类剧集确实需要避免过于严肃自重。
It also has kind of a quirky, offbeat sense of humor, which, you know, I think series like this really sort of need to avoid getting too stuffed up in their self seriousness.
而且，我认为它还提出了许多相关且看似及时的观点，关于我们社会有多病态，现代生活对我们造成了怎样的影响，以及我们是否都应该以某种方式回归田园。
And also, I think, had a lot of relevant, seemingly timely ideas about how sick our society is and what the condition of modern life has done to us, and should we all, in some way, be getting back to the garden.
它其实是一部有点为路易吉·曼吉奥内和RFK Jr.都准备了一点内容的剧集。
Like, it's it's really kind of a show that, like, you know, sorta had a little bit for Luigi Mangione and a little bit for RFK junior.
是的。
Yeah.
那种社会病态的元素，我觉得也让它在思想上颇具吸引力。
There was this kind of element of, you know, the sickness of society that I also thought made it intellectually interesting.
亚历克西斯，今年你注意到了什么趋势？
Alexis, what was a trend that came up for you this year?
我注意到的一个趋势是，很多剧集试图复兴或复杂化浪漫喜剧的概念。
A trend I noticed was a lot of shows trying to revive or complicate the idea of their romantic comedy.
我觉得一开始在电视上制作浪漫喜剧很难，我得先这么说。
I think it's hard, I should say initially, to make romantic comedy for television.
电视上曾经有过浪漫喜剧。
There have been romantic comedies on television.
当然，也一直有关系类喜剧。
Of course, there have been relationship comedies.
但浪漫喜剧之所以是电影化的，是因为它们有终点，而这个终点通常是婚姻。
But romantic comedies have been filmic because there's an endpoint, and that endpoint is typically marriage.
对吧？
Right?
情侣们结婚了。
The couple get married.
他们从此过上了幸福的生活。
They live happily ever after.
关于幸福生活之后发生的事，有一些很棒的电视剧，但要打破这种完美弧线却很难。
There's some great TV about what happens after the happily ever after, but it's hard to disrupt the perfection of that arc.
因此，浪漫喜剧始终是一个挑战。
And so it's always a challenge for romantic comedy.
我认为我们现在正处在一个人们再次尝试的阶段，我很喜欢看到这一点。
I think we're in a place where people are trying again, and I love to see it.
我的意思是，我就是喜欢爱情。
Like, all I want I I love love.
我希望相信爱情是可能的，不是为我，而是为别人。
I I wanna think it's possible, not for me, but for others.
我觉得你说得太多了，这是可能的。
I think you're it's possible you're saying too much.
是的。
Yeah.
我不需要它，但我喜欢看到它。
I I don't want it, but I love to see it.
我觉得今年有一些非常不错的尝试。
And I thought that this year, there were some really good attempts.
我看了《太爱了》，这是一部莉娜·邓纳姆的浪漫喜剧，上线于Netflix。
I enjoyed too much, which is a Lena Denham romantic comedy, which was on Netflix.
我非常喜欢梅根·斯塔尔特，她一些
I love Megan Stalter, who some
是那部剧的女主角。
of The star of that show.
那部剧的女主角，我们有些人从《黑镜》中认识她，有些人则通过她那疯狂的（我用这个词是褒义的）喜剧视频认识她。
The star of that show, who some of us will know from Hacks, and some of us will know from her demented, and I mean that in the most positive way, comedy videos.
她饰演一位移居英国的美国人，带着各种疯狂的浪漫幻想，虽然大部分都未能实现，但她却坠入了爱河。
And she plays an American who moves to England with all kinds of crazy romantic ideas of what England is, most of which are unrealized, but falls in love.
我遇到了一个人。
I met someone.
哇。
Wow.
你知道，这是你从不浪费时间的唯一领域。
You know, this is the only area where you waste no time.
他是做什么的？
What does he do?
为什么第一个问题总是他做什么工作？
Why is the first question always what does he do?
为什么不问问他让你感觉如何？
How about how does he make you feel?
他重视什么？
What does he value?
好的，杰西卡。
Okay, Jessica.
我是你妈妈，不是你朋友。
I'm your mother, not your friend.
记住这一点。
Keep that in mind.
所以他没工作？
So he's unemployed?
他不是没工作。
He's not unemployed.
他是一名独立音乐人。
He's an indie musician.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
他住在哪里？
And where does he live?
嗯，他住在一个早期的独立音乐人社区。
Well, he lives in an early indie neighborhood.
你不会知道的。
You wouldn't know it.
你不懂伦敦地区的情况，妈妈。
You don't know the London area, mom.
与当代浪漫喜剧一样，不存在阶级、宗教或其他外部因素来阻碍人们在一起，因为一切都很好。
And as with contemporary romantic comedies, there aren't problems of class or religion or other external exogenous things to keep people apart because it's fine.
我们很好。
We're fine.
任何人都可以和任何人约会。
Anyone can date anyone.
因此，角色们或许在处理他们带入关系中的情感包袱，并努力成为更好的伴侣。
And so it's the characters sort of maybe dealing a little bit with the baggage that they bring into a relationship and trying to be better partners for each other.
这非常温馨。
It's very sweet.
今年有几部剧实际上确实探讨了信仰在关系中的作用。
There were a couple of shows this year that actually sort of did deal with faith in relationships.
我们稍后会聊其中一部，因为吉姆是它的铁粉。
We're gonna talk about one of them later because Jim is a big fan of it.
这是一部动画剧集，但我们在Netflix上也观看了《无人想要此物》第二季。
It's an animated series, but we also had on Netflix the second season of Nobody Wants This.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我们确实看了。
We did.
真棒的客串啊。
What what nice cameos.
对吧？
Right?
塞斯·罗根可能工作得太勤快了，但我非常高兴看到他和凯特·贝兰特出演拉比。
It's possible that Seth Rogen works too much, but I was very happy to see him and Kate Berlant show up as, rabbis.
天啊，我爱你，兄弟。
I I I love you, man.
我超爱你的作品。
I I I love your work so much.
真的吗？
Really?
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我看了你做的布道。
I I saw the sermon you gave
在泰普尔海雅特的图布什沃特做的布道，就是关于这个的。
at Tube Shvot at Temple Hyatt for this fact.
让我大开眼界。
It blew my mind.
它彻底改变了我哀悼的方式。
It completely changed the way I mourn.
我以前一直哀悼得不对。
I was mourning all wrong.
哎呀。
Aw.
我们把你放在我们的愿景板上了。
We got you on our vision board here.
天哪。
Oh my goodness.
这个节目是关于什么的？
This is a show about?
这个节目讲述了一位由亚当·布罗迪饰演的拉比，我们中的一些人可能在《橘子郡男孩》中就爱上了他。
This is a show about a rabbi played by Adam Brody, who some of us maybe fell in love with on The OC.
你怎么可能不呢？
How could you not?
你怎么可能
How could
不呢？
you not?
我想我们都喜欢他。
I think I think we all did.
是的。
Yeah.
然后，克里斯滕·贝尔饰演他的非犹太裔、酷酷的金发外邦人播客女友。
And then, Kristen Bell plays his very much non Jewish, cool cool, blonde, Goyasha podcaster girlfriend.
第一季讲述了他们如何应对这种关系的复杂性。
And the first season sees them deal with the complexities of that.
第二季则在好与坏之间，继续展现他们面对这种复杂性的方式，但并没有真正推动太多进展——她必须决定自己是否准备好皈依，还是继续停留在这种模棱两可的状态中，因为如果妻子不皈依，他要当拉比将极其困难。
And the second season, for better and kind of for worse, also sees them deal with the complexities of that in a way that doesn't really move a lot of things forward, where she has to decide if she is ready for a conversion or if they're just going to hang out in this sort of no man's land where, it would be very, very, very difficult for him to be a rabbi with a wife who did not convert.
如果妻子不皈依，这看起来可不太妙。
It's not a good look if your wife doesn't it's like, oh, man.
如果你连家人都说服不了，又怎么向别人推销呢？
How are you gonna sell it to anyone else if you can't even sell it at home?
你妻子不皈依犹太教，这真的不太体面。
Like, it's not a great look your wife doesn't convert to Judaism.
这些都不重要。
None of it matters.
你是我灵魂的伴侣。
You are my soul mate.
就这样。
That's it.
我不在乎你是不是犹太人。
I don't care if you're Jewish.
我不在乎你是不是非犹太人。
I don't care if you're not Jewish.
我每次都选择你。
I choose you every time.
我喜欢剧中的角色。
I love the people in the show.
我真的很喜欢这部剧展现的洛杉矶，那是我家乡。
I really like the vision of Los Angeles, where I am from.
这让我疑惑自己当初为什么要离开，但我希望剧情能有一些进展。
It makes me wonder why I left, but I wish that there had been some narrative progress.
嗯。
Yeah.
而且我觉得，这部剧不像第一季那样，对犹太女性的刻画放松了。
And also, I think this show, unlike the first season, eased up on its depiction of Jewish women.
但我记得曾跟第一季的创作者兼总制片人谈过，而现在换了新的制片人，我向她解释说：金发浪荡的犹太女性是真实存在的。
But I remember speaking to the the creator and the showrunner for the first season, and now has different showrunners, and explaining to her that, slutty blonde Jews do exist.
你知道的吧？
You know?
我们是多元的。
Like, we are a manifold.
我们是多元的，我们并不都是尖声尖气的褐发女性。
We are manifold Like, we're not all shrill brunettes.
不。
No.
代表性很重要。
Representation is important.
代表性很重要。
Representation matters.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
圣经里有很多怪异的事情。
There is a lot of freaky stuff going on in the Bible.
天哪。
Good god.
吉姆，你把你那部以不同方式探讨性话题的剧集列入了你的前十名单。
Jim, you put a a a show that was sort of concerned with sex in a in a different way on your top 10 list.
是的。
It yes.
《为性而死》是一部关于性、尤其是关于死亡的限定剧。
It's Dying for Sex, a limited series that was about sex and especially about dying.
该剧改编自一个关于一位被诊断出患有晚期癌症的女性的故事，由米歇尔·威廉姆斯在迷你剧中饰演，她身患绝症，决心完成心愿清单上的一项重大目标——最终达到高潮。
It was adapted from a story about a woman who has a terminal diagnosis of cancer, play played by, Michelle Williams in the miniseries, who has a terminal diagnosis of cancer and sets out basically to cross off a big item on her bucket list, which is to finally have an orgasm.
它既成为了一段关于生命终点旅程的故事，而我对死亡过程的描绘方式感到非常坦诚直接，尽管电视上死亡场景如此常见，但我很少见到如此真实的刻画。
And it becomes both a story of, you know, the journey of the end of life, which I felt was kind of open and frank about the dying process in a way that as much death as there can be on TV, I've rarely seen.
当你极度接近死亡时，呼吸会进入一种深长缓慢的呼吸与长时间停顿的循环。
And when you are very close to death, your breathing goes into a cycle of deep slow breaths and long pauses.
最终，会有一次呼气之后，不再有下一次吸气。
And then eventually, there is a breath out that is not followed by a breath in.
就这样了。
And that's it.
嘿。
Hey.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
你能确保我死的时候嘴巴是闭着的吗？
Can you make sure that my mouth isn't open when I die?
好的。
Okay.
别咬我。
Just don't bite me.
我为什么要咬你？
Why would I bite you?
我不知道为什么我需要你告诉我这个，但请你答应我你不会咬我。
I don't know why I need you to tell me this, but please say that you won't bite me.
最后一集，你知道的，不剧透，但你可以猜到会发生什么。
The final episode, you know, no spoilers, but, like, you can guess what happens.
不。
No.
最后一集。
The final episode.
但在这方面，它处理临终关怀体验等内容时非常出色。
But it was was fantastic in this respect, dealing with the hospice experience and so on.
但我也意识到，人们听到这个描述可能现在正想逃开。
But also, you know, and I I realize that people are, like, running from this description probably right now.
这是一部极其幽默的剧集，嗯。
An incredibly funny show Mhmm.
它以一种诚实、富有宣泄力且大胆的方式做到了这一点。
In a way that, you know, was honest and, you know, cathartic and daring.
米歇尔·威廉姆斯在剧中表现非凡。
Michelle Williams is fantastic in it.
珍妮·斯莱特也非常出色。
Jenny Slate is very good.
这是一个例子，说明了我一直追求的电视作品理念：幽默并不与严肃相对立。
It was an example of something that I think I always look for in television, which is, you know, the the idea that funny is not the opposite of serious.
对。
Right.
而且你常常能够，坦率地说，常常需要利用幽默来传达深刻而有力的思想。
And and that you often can, and frankly, often need to, use humor in the service of kinda deep and powerful ideas.
而性与死亡，恐怕再没有比这两者更深刻、更有力的主题了。
And, you know, sex and death didn't get much more deep and and powerful than those.
我们已经谈过性与死亡了。
We have talked about sex and death.
我很想
I'd love to
谈谈性与枪支，亚历克西斯。
talk about sex and guns, Alexis.
好。
Great.
我想我知道你要说什么了。
I think I know where this is going.
是要说到猎妻们吗？
Is it is it going to the hunting wives?
我觉得是。
I think it is.
我觉得是。
I think it is.
我非常期待谈论猎妻们，因为这涉及到吉姆所说的问题——如今，许多（尽管并非全部）高端乃至次高端电视剧都忘记了，也许它们本该有趣一些。
I am so excited to talk about the hunting wives because this pertains to what Jim is saying that I think that there is a great problem in much, though by no means all, of prestige and really sub prestige television this day, that it forgets that maybe it should be fun.
比如，我们或许该享受一下，这并不意味着我们不能探讨严肃议题。
Like, maybe we should have a nice time, which doesn't mean we can't deal with serious issues.
但也许娱乐就应该让人愉悦，而不是沉闷。
But maybe entertainment should be entertaining rather than dour.
今年Netflix上有一部叫《猎妻们》的剧集。
And there was a show on Netflix this year called The Hunting Wives.
我会说这部剧好看吗？
Would I describe this show as good?
哦，不。
Oh, no.
不。
No.
我会说这个节目有趣吗？
Would I describe this show as fun?
哦，当然。
Oh, yes.
这个节目讲述的是由布列塔尼·斯诺饰演的一位女性，她移居到德克萨斯东部，必须了解当地的文化和习俗，其中很多涉及富裕的郊区女性喝得酩酊大醉、开枪射击，以及彼此发生关系。
This show is about a woman played by Brittany Snow, who is a transplant to East Texas and has to understand the manners and mores of East Texas, many of which involves suburban wealthy suburban women getting very drunk and shooting guns, and sleeping with each other.
真有趣。
What fun.
实际上，我得赶紧走了，因为我答应过要回家吃晚饭。
Actually, I have to go pretty soon because I promised I'd be home for dinner.
哦，别这样。
Oh, come on.
你懂的，对吧？
You got it, don't you?
嗯。
Yeah.
但这让我有点害怕。
But it scares me a little bit.
哦，别这样。
Oh, come on.
让我看看。
Let me see it.
来吧。
Come on.
别害羞。
Don't be shy.
哦，
Oh,
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
看多可爱啊。
look how cute.
哦，姑娘，你还没装上这东西呢。
Oh, girl, you haven't even loaded this thing.
你觉得我知道怎么装枪吗？
Do you think I know how to load a gun?
我来教你。
I'll walk you through it.
我其实不怎么
I don't really
听着，我待会儿带你去靶场练习。
Listen, I'll take you to target practice later.
就先帮我治疗一下。
Just heal me.
好吗？
Okay?
它还由马琳·阿克曼主演，她是一位出色的女演员，却在《十亿》中被完全浪费了，而她现在玩得非常开心。
It also stars Malin Ackerman, a wonderful actress who was completely wasted on billions, and she is having a great time.
顺便说一句，她在《奖杯妻子》中的表现非常出色，那是一部被低估的剧集。
She was terrific on Trophy Wife, by the way, an unfairly rewind show.
想想看
Think about
我知道。
I know.
一部只有一季的悲剧。
The a one season tragedy.
多棒的剧啊。
What a show.
多棒的剧啊。
What a show.
只要她一出现在屏幕上，你就知道你一定会度过一段极棒的时光，因为她的狂野、对快乐的追求、幽默感和享受生活的态度都极为强烈。
And anytime she is on screen, you know that you are going to have a fantastic time because her rapaciousness, her sense of pleasure, her sense of fun, her sense of enjoyment is radical.
我真希望能看到更多这样的内容。
And I would love to see more of that.
我的意思是，就这一类趋势而言，这部剧是其中最出色的，这种趋势已经持续了很多年，就是讲那些有钱人藏着秘密的故事，通常——虽然并非总是——他们穿着外套。
I mean, this was the best of the bunch in terms of a trend, which has been a trend for many years, which is rich people with secrets, often though not always in coats.
而且
And
对不起。
I'm sorry.
穿着外套？
In coats?
对啊。
Yeah.
有一段时间，这些剧里的外套特别流行，比如每个人——我的意思是，妮可·基德曼——都会穿着一些非常优雅的外衣走来走去。
For a while, the coats were really big in these shows, like everyone, by which I mean Nicole Kidman would walk around in some really elegant outerwear.
你是在说她和休·格兰特一起演的那部剧吗？
Are you talking about that one she did with Hugh Grant?
是的。
Yes.
但还有那个
But also That
那部剧的外套非常多。
was very coat heavy.
《大小谎言》里的外套，这同样是该类型中的典范之作。
The coats on Big Little Lies, which is again, like a best in class example of the genre.
那些外套也非常出色。
The coats were also very good.
比如，加利福尼亚有时候也会很冷。
Like, does get cold in California sometimes.
它只是
It's
北加利福尼亚。
Northern California.
北部。
Northern.
最少雾。
Least foggy.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你需要穿一两层。
You need a layer or two.
它可能
It can
否则会有点潮湿。
get a bit damp otherwise.
是的。
Yeah.
但今年，我们有了更好的姐妹。
But this year, we had, the better sister.
我们看了《全是她的错》。
We had All Her Fault.
我们看了《女友》。
We had the girlfriend.
我们看了《野兽与我》，它们都非常沉闷。
We had the Beast and Me, and they were very they were very dour.
我认为，那对完美情侣稍微更有趣一些。
The perfect couple, I would say, was a little more fun.
《野兽与我》根本不是什么笑料不断。
The Beast and Me was not exactly a laugh riot.
是啊。
No.
是啊。
No.
不。
No.
你知道，
You know,
他们没在《白莲花度假村》穿外套。
they didn't wear coats in the White Lotus.
他们没在《白莲花度假村》穿外套。
They did not wear coats in the White Lotus.
太热了。
Too warm.
太热了。
Too warm.
在泰国太热了。
Too warm in Thailand.
是啊。
Yeah.
他们在镀金时代确实穿外套。
They did wear them in the Gilded Age.
他们在镀金时代确实穿外套，那也是些有秘密的富人。
They did wear them in the Gilded Age, which are also rich people with secrets
是的。
Yeah.
剧集。
Shows.
我真的非常喜欢《白莲花》。
And I I I really enjoy The White Lotus.
我不认为我会反对。
I don't think that I would argue.
我认为，任何我爱且信任的理性人士都不会认为这部设定在泰国的第三季是系列中最棒的一季。
I don't think that any reasonable person who I love and trust would argue that this third season, which was set in Thailand, was the best of the series.
事实并非如此。
It was not.
它并不是该系列中最好的一季。
It was not the best of the series.
它是该系列中最差的一季，但依然令人享受。
It was the worst of the series, but it's still enjoyable.
看到英俊的人在美丽的地点作恶并陷入极度痛苦，确实很惬意。
It is nice to see attractive people in beautiful locations behaving badly and being absolutely miserable.
我要说，我非常喜欢《白莲花》第一季，但我就是不喜欢它的剧情走向。
I I I will say I love the first season of White Lotus, and I just I don't like its its trend lines.
你知道吗？
You know?
我觉得第二季没那么好，第三季更差。
I think the second was not as good, and then the third was less than that.
但它确实有种《爱情船》的感觉，多个故事在不同客人之间展开，即使在质量较差的季数中，你也能找到一些能产生共鸣的元素。
But it does have this sort of love boat aspect to it where there are multiple stories playing out in different guests, and and there are likely to be elements within that that you can connect to even in a more subpar season.
而且选角非常出色。
And fantastic casting.
说到《爱情船》，我们还没聊过《医生奥德赛》，这是今年最离谱的剧之一。
Speaking of The Love Boat, we haven't talked about Doctor Odysee, one of the most banana shows of this year.
吉姆，你有看过吗
Jim, did you experience
这剧是今年的吗？
Was the that even this year?
困惑与惊奇。
Confusion and Wonder.
这一年实在太长了。
It's such a long year.
《医生奥德赛》就像是《爱情船》加上了荒诞的医疗程序，毕竟这是一部莱恩·墨菲的作品。
Doctor Odysee was the love boat with grotesque medical procedures added on because, of course, this is a Ryan Murphy joint.
而莱恩·墨菲酷爱荒诞怪异的东西。
And Ryan Murphy adores the grotesque.
但这部剧实在太蠢了。
But it was so stupid.
它让我的大脑变得软绵绵的。
And it made my brain so soft.
当你看大脑的解剖图时，那些像花椰菜一样的褶皱和结节，我一点都感受不到。
Like, when you look at the diagrams of the brain, the cauliflower, the nodules, I had none of those.
当我观看《医生奥德赛》时，让画面不断流过，我的大脑就像一个豆袋椅一样松软。
My brain was a beanbag chair as I watched Doctor Odyssey and let the parade of images go by.
我从来没听说过《医生奥德赛》这部剧。
I've never heard of the show Doctor Odyssey.
你从来没听说过《医生奥德赛》这部剧？
You've never heard of the show Doctor Odyssey?
可能电视太多了。
It is possible there's too much TV.
乔舒亚·杰克逊，就像亚当·布罗迪一样，是另一位前青少年偶像。
Joshua Jackson, who like Adam Brody, is another former teen heartthrob.
嗯。
Yeah.
我看了《恋爱时代》。
I watched Dawson's Creek.
就是这种感觉。
This exactly.
《恋爱时代》的衍生剧里，主角是一名在游轮上工作的医生。
This one of Dawson's Creek extraction is a doctor on a cruise ship.
你敢信吗？
And would you believe it?
但每一集都会发生好几起医疗危机。
But every episode, there are several medical crises.
客串演员有凯特·伯兰特、艾米·塞达里斯、玛格丽特·赵。
The guest cast, Kate Berlant, Amy Sedaris, Margaret Cho.
我觉得这些女士们都出现在同一集中。
I believe those ladies were all in the same episode.
演员玛戈·马丁戴尔也出演了这个角色。
Character, actress, Margo Martindale shows up.
这是一份礼物。
It is it is a gift.
这是一种快乐。
It is a joy.
如果你多想就会出问题，别去想它。
It if you think about it for more than it don't think about it.
别想。
Don't.
别那样做。
Don't do that.
就让它自然流过吧。
Just let it wash over you.
我们休息一下。
Let's take a little break.
回来后，我们会聊聊今年我们更爱的其他剧集。
And when we come back, we're going to talk about even more shows we love this year.
嘿。
Hey.
我是约翰·蔡斯。
It's John Chase.
还有 Mari Uehara。
And Mari Uehara.
来自《纽约时报》旗下的产品推荐服务 Wirecutter。
From Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times.
Mari，现在是送礼时节，这意味着我完全没辙，需要帮忙。
Mari, it is gift giving time, which means I am hopeless and need help.
你不是一个人，John。
You're not alone, John.
我们有四十多个礼物指南，比如送给热爱美食的人的礼物。
We have over 40 gift guides, like gifts for people who love food.
我真的很喜欢那份清单里的这个黄油加热器。
I really love this butter warmer on that list.
我根本不知道这些东西还存在。
I didn't even know these existed.
这是一个可爱的搪瓷锅。
It's this cute enamelware pot.
如果你像我一样，微波炉里黄油总是炸得到处都是，你可以用它来融化黄油，但它还能用来做很多其他事情，比如热巧克力、暖汤，而且放在炉子上也很漂亮。
If you're someone like me who explodes butter in your microwave, you can melt butter in it, but you can use it for a ton of other stuff, making hot chocolate, warming soup, and it looks great on the stovetop.
这不仅实用，而且很好看。
This is useful, but it's also good looking.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Definitely.
给一个预算在50美元以下的人送什么礼物比较容易呢？
What's an easy gift for someone like under $50?
在我们的50美元以下礼物指南中，有一款超可爱的掌心大小的蓝牙音箱。
So in our gifts under 50 guide, we have this super cute palm sized Bluetooth speaker.
有多种酷炫颜色可选。
Comes in an array of cool colors.
它是防水的。
It's waterproof.
我想要一个放在我的花园里。
I want one for my garden.
太棒了。
Terrific.
要查看Wirecutter的所有礼物建议和推荐，请访问nytimes.com/holidayguide。
For all of Wirecutter's gift ideas and recommendations, head to nytimes.com/holidayguide.
我们已经聊了很多节目。
So we've talked about a bunch of shows.
我觉得我们应该重点聊聊那些我们特别喜爱的。
I think we should really get into the ones that we just absolutely adored.
吉姆，你把很多节目都列在了你今年的最佳榜单上。
Jim, you, put a bunch on your best of the year.
你已经提到几个了。
You talked about a few already.
我希望我们三人轮流说，但主要还是你们两位谈谈我们的一些最爱。
I'd love to take turns between the three of us, but mostly between the two of you talking about some of our favorites.
吉姆，跟我们说说《简短故事》吧。
Jim, tell us about long story short.
好的。
Okay.
当我年底整理最佳榜单时，你知道，会有一个前十名列表。
So when I put together my best lists at the end of year, you know, there's a there's a top 10 list.
这其实有点言过其实，因为实际上每年我都有三到四部真正最爱的剧集，然后从另外二十到三十部可能上榜的剧集中挑选。
It's always a little bit of a lie because, like, really, any given year, I have, like, three or four shows that are my real favorites, and then I'm choosing from a grab bag of, you know, 20 or 30 other shows that could be on there.
通常来说，这些剧集中有一部是我今年最钟爱的，那就是《简短故事》——一部由《马男波杰克》创作者打造的动画家庭剧，融合了喜剧与戏剧元素。
And generally, you know, of those shows, there is one that is my absolute favorite this year that was a long story short, an animated family dramedy, comic drama, comedy with dramatic elements, from the creator of BoJack Horseman.
每个人选一个地区。
Everyone pick a territory.
我想要山羊。
I want goats.
千万别养山羊。
Never get goats.
山羊不是一个领域。
Goats are not a territory.
这个游戏毫无意义，因为你正在听。
This game makes no make sense because you're listening.
她把碎片塞进鼻子里。
She's putting the pieces up the nose.
我完全不明白这一切。
I just don't understand any of this.
你爸爸也不明白。
And your father doesn't either.
我觉得我有点明白了。
I think I'm understanding.
他表现得很友善。
He's being nice.
他不明白。
He doesn't understand.
他眼神呆滞，和我们租《霸王别姬》时一模一样。
He has the same glazed overlook as when we rented Farewell, My Concubine.
我根本没看懂《霸王别姬》。
I did not understand Farewell, My Concubine.
我只是说，我更喜欢多普费格勒太太。
I just said I preferred missus Dopfighter.
我想
I wanna
当一个妾室。
be a concubine.
值得一提的是，我完全理解这个游戏，而且我觉得它回来了。
For the record, I understand the game perfectly, and I think it's back.
这就是为什么不要和家人玩游戏的原因。
This is why you don't play games with your family.
你的家人不是你的朋友。
Your family are not your friends.
鲍比没有
Bobby doesn't have
这是一个关于家庭的故事，时间跨度大，情节在他们的历史中来回跳跃。
It's about a family told over time, jumping back and forth in their history.
你可能会说，这听起来有点像《我们这一天》。
You might say that kinda sounds like This Is Us.
这确实有点《我们这一天》的风格，但不同之处在于较少依赖重大反转和戏剧化情节。
And this was a bit of a This Is Us approach, but with the difference of having, you know, less reliance on big twists and melodrama.
而且，简而言之，就是非常犹太。
And also, long story short, is just extremely Jewish.
它讲的是一个犹太家庭的故事。
It's it's about a Jewish family.
它非常细致且具体。
It is detailed and specific.
这太犹太了。
This is so Jewish.
曼尼舍维茨甚至可以把它腌起来，装在罐子里卖。
Manischevitz could, like, pickle it and sell it in a jar.
它就是鱼丸。
It it is the gefilte fish
没错。
Yeah.
在动画喜剧中的。
Of animated comedies.
你知道，我得说，我自己就是犹太人。
You know, I I will say, like, I I I am I am Jewish myself.
我的家人不像剧中这家人那样那么犹太，但这并不是吸引我的主要原因。
My my family is not super Jewish in the way that the family in this is, but that's not necessarily the appeal of it to me.
吸引我的地方在于，我非常钟爱这种具体性，尤其是在这种喜剧中，因为我认为这有助于你形成一种观点。
The the appeal is that I am really drawn to specificity, particularly in in comedies like this, because I think that helps you develop a viewpoint.
它能让你更了解角色。
It helps you know the characters.
它能帮你构建一个世界。
It helps you create a world.
你懂吗？
You know?
我看电视。
I I I watch TV.
我观看影视、体验艺术，都是为了让我进入他人的经历，这和我当初喜爱《 Reservation Dogs》的感觉很相似——那部几年前设定在俄克拉荷马州印第安人保留地的优秀喜剧。
I experience art in general to take me into somebody else's experience, and it's sort of similar to me to the way that I loved reservation dogs, the great comedy that was set on an Oklahoma Indian reservation a a couple of years ago.
在这个剧集中，这个家庭第一次登场时，正开车前往一场葬礼，那时孩子们还小。
Here, the family that the show depicts, you meet them as they're driving to a funeral when the kids are younger.
你在第二个出口后转弯。
You take second exit after exit.
出口之后又是出口？
Second exit after exit?
这怎么可能
What could that possibly
所以这是不行。
So that's a no.
我们迷路了。
We're lost.
我是孤儿，而且我们迷路了。
I'm an orphan, and we're lost.
悲伤令人困惑，但我不认为这些困惑之中应该包括去墓地的路线。
Grief is perplexing, but I don't think one of these perplexing parts should be directions to the cemetery.
如果你跟着灵车走，就能找到路。
Directions if you'd follow the hearse.
他一路上东倒西歪的。
He was weaving all over.
他是不是想害死我们？
Is he trying to get us killed?
你 later 会看到这些孩子成长为中年人，并有了自己的孩子。
You will later see the kids as middle aged adults with their own children.
你会看到人们变老、变年轻，然后死去。
You see people age and get younger and die.
在这个过程中，你开始梳理出这个家庭成员之间发展出的所有关系，以及那些在某人年轻时出现的细微矛盾，这些最终成为他们年老时神经质的一部分。
And in the process, you start teasing out all the relationships that develop among, you know, just the the web of this family and the slights that emerge in somebody's youth that become, you know, part of their neuroses when they're older.
对我来说，这仅仅是一种美丽、动人，又常常荒诞可笑的方式，讲述了这群人如何成为他们现在的样子。
To me, it was it was just it was a beautiful, moving, often just absurdly funny way of just telling the story of how a group of people came to be who they are.
我向 absolutely 任何人推荐这部剧。
And I I recommend it to just absolutely anyone.
我的家庭和这个家庭一样是犹太人。
My family is Jewish in the way this family is Jewish.
所以一开始，我对这部剧感到很难接受。
And so initially, I had a rough time with this show.
我觉得我得反复看第一集好几次，这一集比其他几集要沉重一些，才能看完。
I think I had to start the first episode, which is a little heavier than some of the others a few times before I got through it.
但我同意你的看法。
But I agree with you.
它真的很美好。
It is so lovely.
随着剧情发展，它变得越来越搞笑。
And as it goes on, it gets funnier.
我觉得它允许自己变得更幽默。
I think it allows itself to be funnier.
它变得越来越怪异。
It gets weirder.
像《我们这一天》一样，这绝对是一部有人会死在慢炖锅火灾里的剧。
Like This Is Us, this is absolutely a show where someone would die in a crock pot fire.
但在这部剧里，这种情况会非常搞笑。
But on this show, that would be hilarious.
是的。
Yes.
而且你也不会花三年时间去寻找
And you're also not gonna spend like three years finding
出来。不。
out No.
不。
No.
他们会为逾越节制作牛胸肉。
They they would be making brisket for Passover.
某件事会彻底出错。
Something would go terribly wrong.
那会很棒。
It would be amazing.
所以我对这部剧改变了看法。
So I I I came around on this show.
我完全投入了。
I'm I'm all in.
《我们这一天》里发生的就是这个吗？
Is that what happened in This Is Us?
有个人死在了
Someone died in a
一场悲惨的慢炖锅火灾中。
tragic Crock crock pot pot fire.
有个人。
Somebody.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
慢炖锅。
Slow cookers.
这对慢炖锅来说太毁灭性了。
It was devastating for the slow cooker in
慢炖锅很危险。
the Slow cookers are dangerous.
天哪。
Oh my god.
不。
No.
我没有继续看那个节目。
I did not stick with that show.
亚历克西斯，给我们讲一个你最爱的年份的故事。
Alexis, give us one from the year that you loved.
我今天来是想聊聊屁股。
I am here to talk about butts.
我在这里要谈的是特定类型的屁股，那就是冰球屁股。
And I'm here to talk about specific kinds of butts, and those are hockey butts.
HBO上有一档节目叫《热力对决》，它对男性真诚的刻画在近期电视节目中无与伦比。
There is a show on HBO called Heated Rivalry, and its commitment to the male sincere and unparalleled in recent television.
这部剧讲述的是两位对手冰球运动员的故事。
It is about rival hockey players.
一位是俄罗斯人，一位是加拿大人，他们并没有真正相爱，但 definitely 产生了欲望。
One Russian, one Canadian, who fall not exactly in love, but definitely in lust.
我把我的鸡肉切碎了。
I butcher my chicken out.
我不是。
I'm not.
我不是鸡，但我觉得我们应该聊聊。
I'm not a chicken, but I think we should talk.
你想坐下来吗？
Do you wanna sit?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我其实不觉得。
I don't really.
这真是个糟糕的主意。
This is such a bad idea.
这是最激情的剧集。
And it is the steamiest show.
我一直在想，上一部让我感觉真正性感的剧是哪一部。
I was trying to think what was the last show that felt like truly sexy.
我觉得是《普通人》，但那里的性爱非常爱尔兰式。
And I think it was normal people, but that sex was very Irish Irish.
而且很悲伤。
And sad.
这不一样，我的意思是，当然，他们是出柜的冰球运动员，所以很痛苦，但这里的性爱并不悲伤。
This is not this is not I mean, sure, they're they're anguished because they're closeted hockey players, but this sex is not sad.
这也非常具体。
It's also extremely specific.
我当时想，哇。
I was like, wow.
我知道 exactly 谁在对谁做什么，精确到毫米。
I know exactly who is doing what to whom, like, down to the millimeter.
我认为这是优秀动作电影的标志。
I think that is the sign of good action filmmaking.
是的。
Yes.
你就是知道每样东西的位置，你知道，在
You just know where everything is located, you know, at
任何时刻。
any point.
是的。
Yes.
嗯。
Yeah.
那你为什么喜欢这个？
So why do you like this?
我经常看到一些剧集，里面的性爱场景显得极其多余。
I often see shows where the sex feels incredibly gratuitous.
但我会说，这部剧是一部充满性爱的、非常性感的剧集。
And I would say this is a sexy, sexy show with so much sex.
而这些性爱场景并不显得多余，因为性爱就是剧情本身。
And the sex does not feel gratuitous because the sex is text.
也就是说，它讲的是性。
Like, is about sex.
它讲的是他们彼此之间的欲望。
It is about their desire for each other.
它讲的是他们如何做爱，如何渴望对方，如何不渴望对方。
It is about how they have sex, how they want each other, how they don't want each other.
还有，萨苏菲。
And like, sausufi.
就像，就像，就像，就像，或者像我们犹太人说的，够了。
Like, it's it's it's it's or as we Jews say, Like, it's enough.
够了。
It's enough.
讲一个关于性爱的火热故事就足够了。
It's enough to tell a hot steamy story about sex.
我很想聊聊一部完全没有性爱和臀部的剧。
I would love to talk about a show that has zero sex and zero butts.
可能有一些机器人臀部，但我记不太清了。
There might be some droid butts, but I can't recall precisely this.
这些不是你想要的臀部
These are not the butts you're
找的。
looking for.
我非常想聊聊《安多》第二季，这是今年我最喜爱的剧集。
I would love to talk about season two of Andor, which is my favorite show of the year.
这是迪士尼+《星球大战》电视剧的第二季。
This is season two of the Disney plus Star Wars TV show.
很难用言语来形容它。
It is an odd thing to describe.
它是一部前传的前传。
It's a prequel to a prequel.
它是《侠盗一号》的前传，而《侠盗一号》本身又是第一部《星球大战》电影的前传；这部剧本质上是一部发生在《星球大战》宇宙中的间谍剧，讲述的是我们在这系列电影中看到的银河反抗军的崛起过程。
It is a prequel to the film Rogue One, which itself is a prequel to the very first Star Wars movie, and it is essentially a spy show, an espionage show set in the world of Star Wars that is concerned with the rise of the galactic rebellion that we come to see in in in all these movies.
我们什么时候开始反击？
When do we start fighting back?
我们已经开始了。
We have.
通过转身离开。
By walking away.
我们战斗是为了胜利。
We fight to win.
这意味着我们要一次次失败，不断失败，直到我们做好准备。
That means we lose, and lose and lose and lose until we're ready.
你现在只知道你有多恨。
All you know now is how much you hate.
你要把这份仇恨存起来，藏起来，让它一直燃烧，直到你知道该如何利用它。
You bank that, you hide that, you keep it alive until you know what to do with it.
当我让你行动时，你就行动。
And when I tell you to move, you move.
这是某种主导了文化二十多年之久的叙事形式的巅峰，也就是IP叙事和系列化叙事。
It was the pinnacle of something that has dominated the culture for, I don't know, two plus decades at this point, which is IP storytelling, which is franchise storytelling.
作为一个从小就是《星球大战》粉丝的人，抱歉，这太宅了。
And as someone who grew up a Star Wars fan, sorry, this is extremely nerdy.
我十几岁的时候痴迷于它，我以为当我长大后，《星球大战》会随着我一起成熟，会和我一同成长，但它从未如此。
I was obsessed with it when I was a teenager, and I thought that when I got older, Star Wars would age with me, would grow up with me, and it never did.
我觉得，那一刻，星战终于成为了一件真正属于成年人的事。
And I felt like this was an actual moment when for one brief shining moment, Star Wars was a grown up thing.
这是一个属于成年人的故事。
It was a grown up story.
这部剧讲述的是叛乱、专制、牺牲与死亡等等。
This is a show about rebellion and autocracy and sacrifice and death and all.
它不涉及性，但却探讨了许多成年人才能理解的主题。
It's not about sex, but it's about it's about a lot of adult things.
对我来说，这非常罕见。
And that to me was rare.
我怀疑我们再也看不到类似的作品了，我太喜欢它了。
I doubt we'll ever see something like it again, and I loved it so much.
我知道你也喜欢。
I know you did too.
是的。
Yeah.
我完全支持‘并且’这一派，你知道，我认为依赖IP是电视界的诅咒。
I'm a thousand percent on the and or train, and, you know, I consider just, you know, the reliance on IP to be the the the curse of television.
我们在电影里见过这种现象，然后它就蔓延到了电视上。
We'd saw it in the movies, and then it's it's jumped to TV.
而这是一个罕见的基于IP的作品，它本身就是一个充满独立创意的杰作。
And this was a rare case of an IP based product that was just a great work in its own with its own ideas.
我最喜欢的一点是，它显然是《星球大战》。
One thing I loved about it is that, obviously, it's Star Wars.
里面有很多冒险元素。
There's a lot of adventure.
有很多大胆的行动。
There's a lot of daring do.
除了政治层面，当然，它真正关注的是叛乱是如何运作的，从最基础的政治层面对抗专制，这感觉非常贴近当下。
Beyond the politics and, obviously, you know, it's it's just cons you know, it's concerned with how rebellion works, you know, just politically on a nuts and bolts level and and fighting against autocracy, you know, feels very current.
但它也蕴含着一种美丽的悲剧色彩，这一点在一定程度上借鉴了《侠盗一号》。
But it also just has this beautiful tragedy to it, which is, you know, something it it sort of borrows from from Rogue One to an extent.
这些是那些在叛乱成功后，从未被授予勋章的人们的故事。
Like, these are the people you know, these are the stories of the people who do not end up getting a medal draped around them at some point later on once the rebellion has succeeded.
这关乎牺牲与悲剧，那些默默无闻、终其一生也看不到自己劳动成果的人。
It's it's about sacrifice and tragedy and, you know, that that that people who will sort of toil in anonymity and and never see the fruits of their labor achieved.
我觉得这种设定有种特别的美感，而这种感觉在《曼达洛人》里并没有那么明显。
And I there's something kinda beautiful about that, you know, that didn't necessarily get that in, like, the Mandalorian.
别误会，我对尤达宝宝没有丝毫不敬。
No no no offense to Baby Yoda.
是的。
Yeah.
关于《安多》的这场对话让我太开心了。
This conversation about Andor is making me so happy.
我还能再聊一小时，但我想我们该转到另一部也让我非常开心的剧了，那就是《The Lowdown》。
I could talk about it for another hour, but I think we should move on to another show that also made me very happy, and that's The Lowdown.
这部剧我追得有点晚，但只要看了二十分钟，我就爱上了它。
This was a show that was a little late catching up to, but as soon as I watched twenty minutes of it, I fell in love.
这太有趣了，伊桑·霍克在剧中表现得太棒了。
It's so funny, and Ethan Hawke is so great in it.
给我们讲讲这部剧吧。
Tell us about this one.
《The Lowdown》是一部政治、新闻、历史风格的黑色电影，讲述伊桑·霍克饰演的角色李·雷本的故事，他自封为‘真相历史学家’。
So The Lowdown is, how would I describe it, a political, journalistic, historical noir about Ethan Hawke's character, Lee Raybon, who is a self styled he calls himself a truthstorian.
抱歉。
Sorry.
再说一遍？
Say again?
我是塔尔萨真相历史学家。
I am a Tulsa Truthstorian.
真相历史学家？
A Truthstorian?
到底什么是真相历史学家？
What exactly is a Truthstorian?
很高兴你问了。
Glad you asked.
我读东西。
I read stuff.
我研究东西。
I research stuff.
我开车到处转，找东西。
I drive around, and I find stuff.
然后我写关于这些东西。
And then I write about stuff.
有些人关心，有些人不关心。
Some people care, some people don't.
我长期失业，总是身无分文。
I'm chronically unemployed, always broke.
但可以说，我痴迷于真相。
But let's just say that I am obsessed with the truth.
它涉及他对一个强大政治家族的调查，该家族的继承人由凯尔·麦克劳克林饰演，正在竞选俄克拉荷马州州长。
It involves an investigation that he makes into a powerful political family whose scion, played by Kyle McLaughlin, is running for governor of Oklahoma.
这是一部惊悚片，也是一部阴谋惊悚片，在戏剧层面上处处令人满意。
It is a thriller and a conspiracy thriller in in all the ways that pay off on a dramatic level.
真正吸引人的是，它就像一场冒险行动。
What's really appealing about it is that it just has this great it's like it's a caper.
你知道吗？
You know?
这是一个关于这位目光狂热、心怀信念的男子的流浪汉式故事，他并不总是做出明智的决定，你知道，没错。
It's this kind of picaresque story about this kind of wild eyed guy with a cause who does not always make wise decisions and, you know Yeah.
经常超出自己的能力范围。
Often gets out over his skis.
但没错，关于他和围绕他的那些角色，他们构成了这个社区，试图弄清楚正在发生什么，以及地毯下究竟藏着哪些蛇。
But, yeah, about him and the characters around him who make up this community, you know, kind of trying to make sense of what's going on and what, you know, snakes are under the carpet.
它很真实，虽然略显松散，但正是这种松散最棒，而且‘流浪汉式’这个词用得非常好，因为它还包含了众多一闪而过却令人过目难忘的小角色。
It's real it's slightly shaggy, but in the most wonderful way, and it's you know, picaresque is is a great word to use because it also has all these little characters that pop in and out that are sort of immediately memorable.
你知道吗，那个住在书店隔壁的律师，书店是他开的，他总去那儿把东西存进保险箱。
You know, the lawyer next door to the bookstore that he owns that he keeps going to in order to store stuff in his safe.
那个独眼的编辑，是超市周刊的编辑，由说唱艺人Killer Mike饰演，你知道吗？这个剧里的每个角色，我都觉得我会记住很久。
The the one eyed editor of a supermarket weekly played by the hip hop artist Killer Mike, you know, who has his own every character in this show, I feel like I'm I'm gonna remember for a while.
皮特·彼得·丁克拉吉出演了一集极其完美、完全疯狂的剧情，饰演李的前搭档，这一集令人难忘。
Pete Pete Dinklage shows up for one absolutely perfect completely bananas episode as, Lee's former partner, and it is indelible.
这部剧的层次感非常丰富。
This is a show that is so textured.
你感觉仿佛能尝到它的味道。
You feel like you can taste it.
你甚至能闻到它的气味。
You can smell it.
你能感受到空气拂过皮肤的感觉，而这一点正是创作者斯特林·哈罗如此擅长的——那种细腻的细节。
You know what the air would feel like on your skin, which is something that the creator, Sterling Harjo, is so good at, that kind of specificity.
而且它如此具体，因为它以塔尔萨为背景。
And it's so it's so specific also because it's it's Tulsa based.
是的。
Yes.
而且它并不像纽约人对塔尔萨的想象。
It it and it doesn't feel like, you know, somebody in New York's idea of Tulsa.
它显得真实而生活化。
It feels lived in.
它让人感觉有人曾接触过这些人物，并捕捉到了他们的声音，每个人都有自己的表达。
It feels like somebody has met versions of these people and, you know, captured down you know, everybody has a voice.
每个人都有独特的个性，这是它吸引力的重要部分。
Everybody has individuality, and that is a big part of the key to its appeal.
我觉得，你用了‘闹剧’这个词。
I do feel, you know, you used the word caper.
我用了‘松散’这个词。
I used the word shaggy.
这部剧确实有点‘闲逛’的感觉。
There there is a bit of a a hangout feel to this.
你只是跟着伊桑·霍克的角色在塔尔萨四处转悠。
You're just following Ethan Hawke's character around Tulsa.
他正以经典电影中私家侦探的方式被殴打。
He's getting beat up in, you know, in the the the classic style of of many a movie Private Investigator.
亚历克西斯，我知道你今年看了很多同样有闲逛氛围的作品。
Alexis, I know you watched a ton of stuff this year that also had a hangout feel to it.
我喜欢那种闲逛剧。
I love a hangout show.
我喜欢那种让人只想和角色共度时光的剧集。
I love a show where you just want to spend time with the characters.
自从《老友记》和《女孩》之后，一直有人想打造一部友情喜剧。
And there has been a desire to crack the friendship comedy since Friends, since Girls.
但至今还没有一部剧能让人产生如此强烈的共鸣。
I don't think a show has emerged that people feel about as strongly.
而今年，我们有几部作品成为了有力的竞争者。
And this year, we had a few contenders.
我们有《我爱洛杉矶》和《成年人》。
We had I Love LA, and we had Adults.
这两部剧集，一部设定在纽约，一部设定在洛杉矶，讲述年轻人如何学会在这个世界中前行。
And these are both shows, one set in New York, one set in Los Angeles, that are about young adults sort of learning to move through the world.
它们有不同的风格。
They have different flavors.
《我爱洛杉矶》更性感。
I love LA is sexier.
它更精致。
It's slicker.
《成年人》更搞笑。
Adults is goofier.
它更让人坐立不安。
It's squirmier.
我感觉这两部剧在第二季都会表现得非常出色，因为编剧会更了解这些演员的表演风格。
I have a feeling these both of these will be great second season shows as the writers learn to write for these particular performers.
但我很乐意花时间与这些人相处。
But I'm happy to spend time with these people.
另一部剧集《友谊》不是新剧，而是回归剧，由罗斯·伯恩主演，她表现非常出色，还有塞斯·罗根，我认为我们都同意他作品太多了，但我很喜欢——这部剧讲述了一对中年老友在洛杉矶展开一系列非常无聊的冒险。
And another show, which is not new, which is returning, Platonic, starring Rose Byrne, who is fantastic, and Seth Rogen, who I think we can all agree works too much, but I love it, as old friends who reunite in middle age and go on some really lame adventures throughout Los Angeles.
我太喜欢了。
I love it.
我甚至
I don't even
不知道Apple TV上最好的喜剧是哪部。
know best comedy on Apple TV.
我知道。
I know.
制片公司拿了很多奖，但我真的觉得它才是。
The studio wins all the awards, but I really think it is.
罗斯·伯恩简直太棒了。
Rose Byrne is freaking fantastic.
我的意思是，你知道， obviously，我看过《伴娘》。
I mean, you know, obviously, like, I've seen bridesmaids.
你知道吗？
You know?
我最初认识她，我想是从《损害》开始的。
I originally knew her, I think, at first from from damages.
看这部剧时，我深深感受到她在表演上的出色——无论是台词节奏还是肢体喜剧，她都太棒了。
I think it really hits me watching this show how fantastic, you know, in terms of delivery, in terms of often of physical comedy, comedic actress she is.
老实说，这现在是我最喜爱的电视剧表演之一。
Like, it's it's honestly one of my favorite performances on TV right now.
作为女性，我可以告诉你，她到现在还在为此烦恼。
As a woman, I can tell you she is still bugged about it.
没有女性在跟我演戏。
No woman's playing to me.
我这个女性一整天都在跟你演戏呢。
I'm a woman's playing to you all day.
你根本不需要向任何人解释什么。
You should be explaining nothing to nobody.
听我说。
Listen to me.
如果你不让我和詹娜一起玩，你知道会发生什么吗？
If you don't let Jenna and I hang out, you know what's gonna happen?
她会以为你在隐瞒什么。
She's gonna think you're hiding something.
她会讨厌我，然后你和我就不会再是朋友了。
She's gonna hate me, and then you and I aren't gonna be friends again.
好吧。
Okay.
你不觉得你有点太夸张了吗？
Don't you think you're being a little dramatic
关于？不。
about No.
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
你快要关于
You're about about
她太有趣了。
She is so funny.
作为一名相邻类型的女士，我在这里为所有紧张的女士们发声，我也在这里为那些常常以惊人方式放松的紧张女士们发声。
And as a type a adjacent lady, I am here for all the tightly wound ladies, and I am here for all the tightly wound ladies when they unwind often in spectacular fashion.
你们俩看过她的电影《如果我有腿，我会踢你》吗？
Have either of you seen her movie, If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You?
我没看过。
I have not.
没有。
No.
我也没看过。
I have not either.
它在我清单上。
It's on my list.
病恹恹的孩子电影。
Sick sick kid movies.
我做不到，我真做不到。
I can't I can't do it.
我做不到。
I can't do it.
我感觉我正在心里列一份你不能做的事清单。
I'm I feel like I I'm compiling a list in my mind of things you cannot do.
是啊。
Yeah.
你不会在《哈姆内特》里连着放两场吧？
You're not gonna double feature that in Hamnet?
不行，真的不行。
Can't yeah.
癌症、生病、死去的孩子。
Cancer cancer, sick, and dead kids.
嗯。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
我们再聊一个。
Let's talk about one more.
《Pluribus》。
Pluribus.
我一开始看《Pluribus》有点晚，但只看了两集，我就上瘾了。
I was a little late to Pluribus, but after only two episodes, I think I'm hooked.
我觉得我得看到最后。
I think I have to see it through.
你看了吗？
Did you okay.
在开始谈论它之前，我先问你一个问题。
Well, let me ask you a question before I start talking about it.
你也是后来才看的。
You came to it a little late.
你看《Pluribus》的时候是被剧透了，还是成功避开了剧透？
Did you go into Pluribus spoiled, or did you manage to be unspoiled?
我成功避开了。
Managed to avoid it.
每次看到‘pleuribus’这个词，我都会把眼睛移开。
Every time I saw the word pleuribus, I averted my eyes.
好几个月我都不能看美元钞票。
I could not look at a dollar bill for months.
所以我不知道这部剧里发生了什么
So I did not know what was going on in this
剧。
show.
上帝保佑你，你能做到这一点。
God bless you that you managed that.
我想我应该先说明一下，我接下来要谈论这个节目的内容。
I suppose I should say upfront, like, I'm going to need to talk about what the show is about.
所以，如果你是那种坚信好故事应该保持未剧透的人，请捂住耳朵。
So, you know, plug your ears if you're somebody who's on I'm very much of the camp that a a good story is unspoiled.
剧透不会毁掉一个好故事。
It cannot be ruined by spoilers.
如果你持不同意见，那就暂时关掉我的声音。
If you feel otherwise, you know, just tune me out for a second.
但《Pluribus》这部剧在播出时充满了神秘感，因为它的设定非常疯狂。
But Pluribus was a show that arrived with a great deal of mystery about it because its premise is so wild.
本质上，一种外星RNA病毒通过星际无线电信号抵达地球，感染了大部分人类，使他们融合成一个欢乐的集体意识。
Essentially, an alien RNA virus arrives on Earth by means of an intergalactic radio signal that infects most of humanity and causes them to become united in a joyous collective mind.
只有一小部分人被排除在外。
A handful of people are left out of it.
其中一位是我们女主角卡罗尔·斯蒂尔卡，由伟大的莉亚·西霍恩饰演，你可能还记得她在《风骚律师》中的表现。
One of them is our heroine, Carol Stirka, played by the great Rhea Seahorn, who you might recall from Better Call Saul.
她是一位浪漫小说作家，天性厌世，却意外成为这种由外星能量激发的、充满喜悦的集体人类的完美反衬。
She is an author of romantic y fiction and a sort of misanthrope by nature who ends up being kind of the perfect foil for this new collective of alien juiced beatific humanity.
你是在读我的想法吗？
Are you reading my mind?
不是。
No.
绝对不是。
Absolutely not.
即使我们想这么做，也做不到。
We couldn't do that if we wanted to.
我们是谁？
Who is we?
为什么突然所有人都成了‘我们’？
Why is everybody suddenly we?
贯穿始终的是卡罗尔如何应对这个新世界，以及她试图找出是否有一种方法可以逆转这种病毒，让人类恢复到从前的状态。
The sort of through line is Carol dealing with this new world, Carol trying to figure out if there is a way to reverse this virus and restore humanity to where it was before.
你知道，等你好好睡一觉后，我们可以继续聊这个。
You know, we could continue this after you've had a good night's sleep.
‘我们’是谁？
Who is we?
‘我们’就是我们。
We is us.
就我们俩。
Just us.
我觉得有趣的一点是，它稍微在探讨一个问题：我们所目睹的是否是一场末日？
Part of the thing that I think is interesting is that it's a little bit playing around with the idea of, is what we've witnessed an apocalypse?
地球上突然不再有战争。
There is suddenly no war on Earth.
没有任何冲突。
There's there's no conflict.
你知道，我们人类所追求的许多东西，其实都是在大脑被接管后才实现的。
There's, you know, a lot of things that we say we aspire to in humanity have been achieved by our brains being taken over.
在这部极其精彩、幽默、表演出色的剧集之下——它常常让人想起蕾亚·C。
And underneath this highly entertaining, very funny, extremely well acted I mean, it's it's often like Rhea C.
霍恩几乎是在进行一场独奏表演。
Horn sort of giving a a a solo performance.
它提出了一个非常有趣的观点：集体主义与个人主义的对立，幸福的真正含义，以及是选择无忧无虑却失去自由意志，还是选择不满但保持完整的自我更好。
It's a very interesting idea about collectivism versus individualism, about what happiness means, about whether it is better to be blissful and have no free will, or to be discontented but an intact individual.
引人深思。
Fascinating.
就像《分离》一样，简直让人拍案叫绝。
You know, like Severance, think just a a knock your socks off.
第一季，我希望它别花太久才回归。
First season, I hope it doesn't take as long coming back.
我真的很喜欢这部剧。
I really enjoyed it.
整个设定是，全世界都在进行一场‘我想给世界一瓶可乐’的广告，而你却在 sidelines 拿着一瓶可乐却打不开。
This whole premise that the whole world is in the I'd like to give the world a Coke commercial, and you are somehow on the sidelines with a Pepsi you can't open.
蕾亚·西霍恩演绎不安、厌恶、轻蔑的方式，她需要展现的种种不满表情，真是非同寻常。
The way that Rhea Seahorn plays discomfort, disgust, contempt, Just the range of faces that she has to convey displeasure is really extraordinary.
也许因为这只是第一季，我深深投入到这个谜团中。
And perhaps because it's only season one, I'm really I'm really invested in the mystery.
我完全被它吸引住了。
I'm here for it.
我想快速进行一个闪电问答环节。
I'd love to go to a quick lightning round.
今年推出了这么多剧集。
There are so many shows that came out this year.
我认为我们已经不再处于电视的巅峰时期，但这并不意味着2025年依然没有数百部电视剧推出。
I don't think we're at peak TV anymore, but that doesn't mean that there still aren't hundreds of TV shows that came out in 2025.
我们应该简短地聊一聊《坑》这部剧，这部剧在今年早些时候，我们几个人在艾美奖特辑中讨论过。
We should just very, very briefly talk about The Pit, which is a show that earlier in the year, a few of us discussed on the Emmys episode.
它很快就会回归。
It's coming back very soon.
我非常期待《The Pit》。
I'm very excited for The Pit.
它的第一季是今年最热门的电视剧之一。
Its first season was one of the bigger TV shows of the year.
我喜欢《The Pit》。
I love The Pit.
我认为这是无可挑剔的电视作品。
I think it's impeccable television.
我认为，几乎可以说，关于它是否是《急诊室的故事》的衍生剧，目前还悬而未决。
I think that the jury is still out almost literally as to whether or not it is an ER spin off.
但我觉得，无论如何，它在节奏、简洁性以及通过动作快速传达角色方面，都比《急诊室的故事》更胜一筹。
But I think that it, if anything, improves on ER in its speed, in its economy, in the ease with which it communicates its characters through action.
是的。
Yeah.
我要说，我喜欢实验性的东西。
I I I will say, you know, I love experimentation.
我喜欢疯狂的点子，但一部制作精良的医院剧依然令人愉悦。
I love a wild idea, but there is still pleasure in just a hospital show done well.
非常出色。
So well.
我们还没提到网飞的剧集《青春期》，据我回忆，今年夏天它一度成了热门现象。
We did not touch on the Netflix series adolescence, which was one of, this summer, if I'm recalling correctly, is sort of big phenomena.
我得承认，我没看，因为我觉得作为一位年轻男孩的家长，这个设定会让我压力山大。
I have to admit, I did not watch it because it seemed like the premise would totally stress me out as the parent of a of a young male.
你说得没错。
You're not wrong.
我觉得，对于有特定年龄段男孩的父母来说，这部剧播出后，大家都是以一种低声细语、近乎创伤的方式观看和讨论的。
Think it would I I you know, my take on it was that, you know, for for parents of kids, particularly male kids of a certain age, this this was, like, the day after, you know, people just watched and discussed in these sort of, like, hushed, traumatized terms.
它本质上是一部四集迷你剧，讲述一名少年因涉嫌谋杀而被捕，而案件最终被揭示是网络欺凌和社交媒体压力的结果，进而深入探讨了我们口袋里的小屏幕正在对我们的孩子造成怎样的影响。
And it's essentially a four part miniseries about an adolescent who is arrested on suspicion of murder in a case that turns out to be the result or or the consequence of online bullying and social media pressures, and and kind of just becomes this investigation of what are the little screens in our pockets doing to all of our kids.
所以我要说，从整体来看，这确实是一项了不起的成就。
So I I will say, like, critically, as a whole, I it was it's it's quite an achievement.
我们甚至还没提到这一点。
Think we haven't even mentioned that.
我认为每一集都是用一镜到底的方式拍摄的，这是一种有趣的技術实验，赋予了作品一种独特的活力。
I think I believe it was every episode was shot in a single take, which is kind of a an interesting technical experiment that lends it, kind of vitality.
对我来说，它带有一点课后特别节目的感觉。
There's a bit of, like, an after school special vibe to it for me.
第三集特别出色，完全是被指控的少年和一名管教社工之间的两人对话，简直就像在你眼前上演了一部制作精良、极具爆发力的戏剧。
There's also a fantastic episode three that is just sort of a a two handed dialogue entirely between the accused young child and a social worker, basically, in custody that was just like watching a great, well produced, explosive piece of theater in front of you.
你看过这一部吗？
Did you watch this one?
看过。
Yeah.
癌症、生病和死去的孩子是我的禁区。
Cancer and, sick and dead kids are my no go areas.
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