杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的起源

你好。

Hi.

我叫达娜。

My name is Dana.

我是《纽约时报》的订阅用户，但我的丈夫不是。

I am a subscriber to The New York Times, but my husband isn't.

能够分享一道食谱、一篇文章，或者和他玩填字游戏或Connections，真的会很好。

And it would be really nice to be able to share a recipe or an article or compete with him in Wordle or Connections.

谢谢。

Thank you.

达娜，我们听到了你的声音。

Dana, we heard you.

推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅服务。

Introducing The New York Times Family Subscription.

一个订阅，可为生活中最多四位家人提供独立登录账号。

One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life.

了解更多，请访问 nytimes.com/family。

Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

来自《纽约时报》，我是蕾切尔·阿布拉姆斯，这里是《每日新闻》。

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams, and this is The Daily.

与罪犯杰弗里·爱泼斯坦相关的最新文件发布，但关于他崛起掌权及其与总统关系的关键问题仍未得到解答。

The latest release of files related to the offender Jeffrey Epstein left key questions about his rise to power and his connections to the president unanswered.

今天，我的同事大卫·恩里奇将解释他和一支记者团队如何努力填补这些谜团，揭示杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的出身真相。

Today, my colleague David Enrich explains how he and a team of reporters worked to fill in those mysteries and reveal the truth about Jeffrey Epstein's origins.

今天是12月23日，星期二。

It's Tuesday, December 23.

大卫·恩里奇，欢迎来到节目。

David Enrich, welcome to the show.

谢谢你的邀请。

Thanks for having me.

大卫，我想这可能是你今年第四次或第五次来到节目讨论杰弗里·爱泼斯坦了。

David, I think this is probably your fourth or fifth appearance on the show this year to talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

而这次我们请你回来，是因为周五司法部发布了大量文件，据我理解，这些文件并没有真正增进我们对杰弗里·爱泼斯坦及其罪行或其圈子中人物的了解。

And this time we're having you back because on Friday, there was obviously this massive file release from the justice department that, as far far as I understand it, did not really advance our understanding of Jeffrey Epstein or his crimes or the people in his orbit.

你能告诉我们，你认为最重要的收获是什么吗？

Can you tell us what you think the biggest takeaways were?

这是一个难题，因为并没有什么重大的新发现。

It's a hard question because there were not huge takeaways.

我们获得了很多零散的补充细节，这些细节进一步印证了爱泼斯坦罪行的极端堕落以及他所做过的可怕事情。

And we got lots of bits of incremental color and detail that reinforced the deep depravity of Epstein's crimes and the horrible things he was doing.

我们还获得了一些新的信息。

We also got some new tidbits.

例如，我们看到了比尔·克林顿与爱泼斯坦及其同伙的多张照片，包括在游泳池里的合影。

We saw, for example, Bill Clinton in numerous photos with Epstein and his associates, including in a swimming pool.

我们发现，早在1996年，爱泼斯坦的一名受害者就曾向联邦调查局举报他持有儿童性虐待材料。

We saw that one of Epstein's victims back in 1996 had reported him to the FBI for having child sexual abuse material.

而那时距离我们所知的联邦检察官开始调查爱泼斯坦，还早了十年。

And that's a decade before we know the federal prosecutors actually started investigating Epstein.

这确实是一个新的进展。

So that was definitely a new development.

但总的来说，这些内容并没有从根本上改变我们对爱泼斯坦及其网络的理解，尤其关于唐纳德·特朗普的信息也极少，他的名字在这些文件中几乎未被提及。

But for the most part, there was nothing here that fundamentally altered our understanding of Epstein and his network, and notably also very little about Donald Trump whose name was barely mentioned in these files.

正是特朗普与爱泼斯坦的关系，最初引发了人们对这一调查的大量政治关注。

And it was Trump's relationship with Epstein that triggered a lot of the political interest in this investigation to begin with.

对。

Right.

为了提醒大家，这次文件的公开是因为一场大规模的施压行动，主要由民主党推动，但也包括一些来自MAGA阵营内部对唐纳德·特朗普及其政府的压力，要求他们公布所谓的爱泼斯坦文件。

Just to remind people, this whole file of release is coming about because of a massive pressure campaign, mostly from Democrats, but also from some within the MAGA orbit for Donald Trump and his administration to release the so called Epstein files.

对吧？

Right?

这基本上迫使特朗普签署了一项法案，授权司法部公开这些文件。

And that basically forced Trump to sign legislation authorizing these files to be released from the justice department.

是的。

Yeah.

值得注意的是，司法部并未履行其法律义务，即发布所有文件。

It's worth noting that the justice department did not do what it was legally required to do, which was release all of the files.

而发布的那些文件，在许多情况下被严重删减，以至于无法理解其内容。

And those files that were released were, in many cases, so heavily redacted that you couldn't make any sense of them.

那他们为什么没有发布呢？

And why didn't they release them?

司法部表示，他们将在未来几周内以滚动方式发布剩余文件，并需要额外的时间来妥善审查和删减这些大量的材料。

The justice department has said that they will release the rest of the files on an kind of a rolling basis over the next few weeks and that they need this additional time to be able to properly review and redact these huge quantities of materials.

好的。

Okay.

既然知道会是这种分批发布的方式，你原本期待能获得什么？

So knowing that there would be this sort of staggered release, what were you expecting to get?

或者也许更重要的是，你希望这批文件能解答哪些问题？

Or or maybe more importantly, what questions were you hoping that this batch of files would actually answer?

我的意思是，这取决于你的立场和你对这件事的兴趣。

I mean, it depends on your perspective and what your interest is in this.

我的意思是，我认为许多受害者以及长期关注爱泼斯坦的人最关心的一个大问题是：是否还有其他男性在纵容他或与他共同实施性犯罪。

I mean, I think one of the biggest questions that many victims have and many people who have been focusing on Epstein for a while are are there other men who were enabling him or participating in sex crimes with him.

对于我和我的同事们来说，我与马特·戈德斯坦、杰西卡·西尔弗·格林伯格以及史蒂夫·伊特尔合作了几个月，深入研究爱泼斯坦所构建的金融网络，追溯他的出身，探究他如何从一个工薪家庭出身的人，摇身一变成为极其富有且人脉广泛的人物。

And for me and my colleagues, I've I've been working with Matt Goldstein, Jessica Silver Greenberg, and Steve Eater for months now to really understand Epstein's financial web that he wove and looking at his origins and how he went from kind of this rags to riches story where he managed to transform himself from a working class family into an extraordinarily rich and well connected person.

因此，我们原本期待这些文件能揭示一些关于这方面的情况，但在这方面我们完全感到失望。

And so we were wondering if there would be any revelations in these files about that, and we're just completely disappointed in that regard.

好吧，我想跟你聊聊你提到的那项调查，因为每个人都热切期待这些文件的公布。

Well, that reporting that you mentioned is what I wanna talk to you about because everybody's been eagerly awaiting the release of these files.

对吧？

Right?

人们希望这些文件能解答一些关于爱泼斯坦及其罪行的长期疑问。

Like, hoping perhaps that the files would address some of these enduring questions about Epstein and his crimes.

显然，上周五并没有发生这样的情况。

And obviously, that did not happen on Friday.

但你和我们的同事一直在深入调查爱泼斯坦生命中一个更早的阶段，那是他尚未因明显犯罪行为而声名狼藉、尚未被逮捕之前的时期。

But you and our colleagues have been digging into a different period of Epstein's life, one that preceded the era of his most flagrant criminal activity that he became known for, that he was arrested for.

为什么你们把重点放在那个时期？

Why was that period your focus?

在你们看来，了解埃普斯坦早期生活的重要性何在？

Why was it important in your estimation to understand the early period of Epstein's life?

埃普斯坦在全球范围内建立了一个庞大的性交易网络，而这需要巨额资金。

Well, Epstein built an extensive sex trafficking operation all over the world, and that was really expensive.

这还需要许多有权势人士的支持。

And it required the support of a lot of powerful people.

因此，我们一直想知道，他是如何获得足够的金钱、权力和人脉来做到这一点的？

And so the question for us has been, how did he get in a position where he had the money and the power and the connections to do that?

这个人的出身非常普通。

This was a guy who came from a really working class background.

他在布鲁克林的康尼岛长大。

He grew up in Coney Island in Brooklyn.

他父亲是纽约市公园管理局的一名员工。

His dad was an employee of the New York City Parks Department.

他成长过程中一直挣扎度日。

He was really kind of scraping by growing up.

但不知怎的，他开始步步高升，最终进入了华尔街和美国政界的顶层。

And then somehow starts to climb this ladder, which will bring him to the upper echelons of Wall Street and American politics.

我认为，关于艾普斯坦及其早年生活的信息缺失，催生了大量阴谋论，比如艾普斯坦在运作一个极其复杂的勒索网络。

And I think the absence of information about Epstein and his early years has given rise to just a vast number of conspiracy theories ranging from that Epstein was running the super sophisticated blackmail operation Right.

还有人认为他与情报机构有关联，而从20世纪70年代中期到90年代初的这段时间，基本上完全是一片空白。

To that he was affiliated with intelligence services, And the period from basically the mid nineteen seventies to the early nineteen nineties, for the most part, has been just a complete black box.

因此，几个月前我们开始调查时，目标就是试图进入这个黑箱，弄清楚艾普斯坦是如何起步的。

And so our goal, when we started reporting on this months ago, was to try and get inside that black box and figure out how Epstein got his start.

而他成功的关键在于，他是个极其高明的骗子。

And the bottom line of how he did that was that he was an extremely successful con man.

他偷窃。

He stole.

他欺骗。

He deceived.

他操纵。

He manipulated.

他一再发现，自己几乎可以为所欲为而不受惩罚。

And he learned over and over again that he could do so basically with impunity.

那么，这个故事从哪里开始？

So where does the story begin?

故事始于1976年。

It begins in 1976.

埃普斯坦是曼哈顿道尔顿学校的一名教师，他受邀参加一场画廊的招待会。

Epstein is a teacher at the Dalton School in Manhattan, and he gets invited to reception at an art gallery.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他不太情愿地去了。

And he goes kind of grudgingly in his tongue.

在招待会上，他遇到了一位学生的家长，这位家长对他的数学能力印象深刻。

And at the reception, he bumps into the parent of one of his students who is impressed with his math chops.

这位家长建议他，与其浪费时间当老师，不如考虑去华尔街发展职业生涯。

And the parent suggests that maybe he is wasting his time being a teacher and instead instead should consider a career in Wall Street.

随后，这位家长把埃普斯坦介绍给了一位名叫艾斯·格林伯格的人。

And the parent then introduces Epstein to a guy named Ace Greenberg.

是个大人物。

Very big name.

没错。

Yeah.

当时，他是贝尔斯登公司的高级高管，这是一家充满进取心的华尔街投资银行。

He, at the time, was a top executive at Bear Stearns, which is this scrappy Wall Street investment bank.

它之所以充满进取心，是因为它不会招聘常春藤盟校的MBA毕业生。

And one of the ways in which it's scrappy is that it is not going to hire Ivy League MBAs.

它寻找的是艾斯·格林伯格喜欢称之为PSD的人，即贫穷、聪明且极度渴望致富的人。

It is looking for what Ace Greenberg likes to call PSDs, which stands for poor, smart, and deeply desirous of being rich.

哇。

Wow.

埃普斯坦去见格林伯格面试，完全符合要求。

And Epstein goes in to meet Greenberg for a job interview, and Epstein fits the bill.

格林伯格被他的魅力、亲和力以及明显的数学才能所折服，当场给了他一份工作。

Greenberg is bowled over by the guy's charisma and charm and apparent math prowess and offers him a job.

于是他来到贝尔斯登，很快成为公司几位顶级高管的门生。

So he arrives at Bear Stearns, and he quickly becomes the protege to some of the firm's top executives.

其中一位就是雇佣他的格林伯格，他对埃普斯坦极为欣赏，甚至介绍自己20岁的女儿给他，两人开始约会，这使埃普斯坦在公司获得了类似受保护的地位。

One is Greenberg, the guy who hired him, who is so taken with Epstein that he introduces him to his own 20 year old daughter, and they start dating, which affords Epstein something akin to protected status at the firm.

这在关键时刻派上了用场，因为埃普斯坦加入贝尔斯登几个月后，他的上司迈克尔·特南鲍姆从人力资源部得知，埃普斯坦在简历上谎称自己大学毕业。

And that really quickly comes in handy because within a couple of months of his arrival at Bear Stearns, Epstein's boss, a guy named Michael Tenenbaum, learns from the HR department that Epstein had lied on his resume about having graduated from college.

于是特南鲍姆召埃普斯坦到办公室谈话。

And so Tenenbaum summons Epstein into his office.

他不太确定该如何处理这件事，因为这可是非常严重的造假行为。

He's not really sure what to do about this because, you know, this is a very serious infraction.

但另一方面，这人正在和老板的女儿约会，因此特南鲍姆当面质问他，本以为埃普斯坦会撒谎、推诿、否认，那样他就可以轻易开除他。

On the other hand, the guy is dating the boss's daughter and confronts Epstein with this, expecting Epstein to lie and dissemble and deny, which in that case would allow Tenenbaum to easily fire him.

相反，埃普斯坦说：‘你说得对。’

Instead, Epstein says, you're right.

是真的。

It's true.

我确实撒谎了。

I did lie.

埃普斯坦接着说，他撒谎的原因是，如果他不撒谎，像巴里·斯泰恩斯这样的公司或任何其他公司都不会给他机会，因为他没有大学文凭。

And the reason he lied, Epstein goes on to say, is that if he didn't lie, there is no way a firm like Barry Stearns or anyone else is going to give him a chance without having a college diploma.

特南鲍姆被这种诚实深深震惊和化解了防备，决定给埃普斯坦一个第二次机会。

And Tenenbaum is so taken aback and disarmed by this honesty that he decides to give Epstein a second chance.

这种模式我们将一再看到重复发生。

And this is a pattern we will see repeating over and over and over again.

这相当惊人，因为首先，他得到这份工作是因为艾斯·格林伯格某种程度上对他中下层背景有一种迷恋。

It's sort of remarkable because, first of he gets this job because in a way, Ace Greenberg is like fetishizing his lower middle class background.

对吧？

Right?

对别人来说是劣势的东西，对艾普斯坦却是优势。

Something that would have been a disadvantage to somebody else is an advantage to Epstein.

他成功打入了门槛。

He gets his foot in the door.

当他被揭穿时，他不仅让自己显得令人同情。

And then when he gets caught, he doesn't just make himself sympathetic.

他还把自己塑造成就职机构的受害者。

He actually makes himself a victim of the institution where he's working.

对吧？

Right?

比如，我别无选择，只能撒谎。

Like, I had no choice but to lie.

否则，你们这些庞大、强势、冷酷的华尔街银行，根本不会给我机会。

Otherwise, you, big, powerful, mean Wall Street bank, would never have taken a chance on me.

是的。

Yeah.

对泰嫩鲍姆来说，你知道，这已经是四十年或四十五年之后了，当我跟他交谈时，他仍然对 Epstein 深谙人性动态的天赋感到惊叹——他仅凭直觉就明白，这很可能会给他一次重来的机会。

And to Tenenbaum, you know, this is now, what, forty or forty five years later, when I spoke to him, he was still kind of marveling at Epstein's knack for understanding human dynamics so well that just on the spur of the moment, he understood that that would be something that was likely to get him a second chance.

果然，这招奏效了。

And sure enough, it worked.

那接下来发生了什么？

So what happens next?

嗯，他保住了工作。

Well, he keeps his job Mhmm.

他很快就在贝尔斯登公司内步步高升。

And he starts very quickly climbing through the ranks at Bear Stearns.

几年内，他就被任命为有限合伙人，这意味着当时他已经赚得盆满钵满，相当于今天的80万美元左右。

Within a few years, he has been named a limited partner, which means that he is getting paid boatloads of money at that point, something like $800,000 in today's dollars.

然而，问题依然不断浮现。

And yet the problems still keep bubbling up.

我的意思是，Epstein 被发现滥用差旅报销。

I mean, Epstein was found to abuse his expense account.

他去加勒比地区出差时，以Bear Stearns的名义为女友购买了约1万美元的珠宝和衣物。

He took a work trip to The Caribbean and charged Bear Stearns something like $10,000 on jewelry and clothing for his girlfriend.

这发生在他还与老板女儿约会之后。

So this is after he was dating the boss's daughter.

嗯。

Mhmm.

另外，他被发现帮助女友提前获得Bear Stearns的高收益投资机会，这显然违反了公司规定，嗯。

Another thing is that it turns out that he has been helping his girlfriend get early access to lucrative investment deals at Bear Stearns, which is a violation certainly of the company's rules Mhmm.

甚至可能触犯了法律。

If not the law.

他还帮助自己的高中好友获得贷款，用于在Bear Stearns购买证券，这也违反了公司政策，若非触犯法律的话。

And he's helping his high school friend get a loan to buy securities at Bear Stearns, which is also a violation of company policies if not the law.

最终，Bear Stearns得知了这些事，并开始展开调查。

And eventually, Barest Earn gets wind of this and starts investigating.

而Epstein即将面临的是轻描淡写的警告。

And Epstein is kind of headed for a slap on the wrist.

他很可能被处以经济处罚，并被停职几个月。

He's likely to get, pay a financial penalty and also be suspended for a couple of months.

但为了避免这种羞辱，他选择辞职，声称自己因被调查而深感被冒犯。

And instead of suffering that indignity, he decides to resign, saying that he's been deeply offended by the fact that he was even being investigated.

因此，通过在贝尔斯登建立的这层人脉和同事关系，他学到了许多东西，主要是如何像一个真正富有的人那样行事和举止。

So one of the many things he learned at Bear Stearns through this network of acquaintances and colleagues that he built up was basically how to act and behave as a really rich person.

这指的是，比如，该用哪把叉子，还是

Is this, like, which fork to use, or

而是关于在财富面前表现得从容不迫、散发出轻松的气质？

is this about acting comfortable or giving off an air of ease in the face

面对财富？

of wealth?

两者都是。

It's both.

就是该用哪把叉子。

It is what fork to use.

如何得体地着装，如何向王室成员或高级政要自我介绍。

It's how to dress appropriately, how to introduce yourself to a member of royalty or to a senior politician.

但更重要的是，要拥有自信

But it's also to have the confidence

嗯。

Mhmm.

相信自己配得上身处这些场合，与富人和权贵同处一室。

That he belongs in these settings, in these rooms with rich and powerful people.

这立刻为他带来了回报。

And that immediately pays dividends for him.

一位前贝尔斯登的同事把他介绍给一位名叫迈克尔·斯托尔的视频游戏高管。

A former Bear Stearns colleague introduces him to a guy named Michael Stroll, who is a video game executive.

Epstein 说服斯托尔拿出 45 万美元——大约是斯托尔净资产的 10%——投资于 Epstein 声称的石油交易。

And Epstein persuades Stroll to hand him $450,000, which is about 10% of Stroll's net worth, to invest in what Epstein claims is an oil deal.

没有任何证据表明这个石油交易真实存在，斯托尔几乎损失了全部资金，不断追问 Epstein：我的钱在哪？

There's no evidence that any oil deal existed, and Stroll loses virtually all of his money and keeps pestering Epstein saying, where is my money?

你答应过我会得到这种回报的。

You promised me we would get this kind of payout.

埃普斯坦一再拒绝他。

Epstein rebuffs him over and over again.

有一次，他还寄给他一品脱原油，以证明这个石油交易确实存在。

At one point, sends him a pint of crude oil to convince him that the oil deal actually does exist.

哇。

Wow.

但钱最终还是消失了。

But the money is just gone, ultimately.

因此，这是埃普斯坦早期最大的一次诈骗之一。

And so this is one of Epstein's huge first killings.

他带着看似几十万美元的钱安然脱身，而这些钱是他从这个人那里骗走的，却没有任何后果。

He walks away with what appears to be several $100,000 of money that he just stole from this guy, and nothing really happens.

斯托尔随后对他提起了诉讼。

And Stroll files a lawsuit against him.

这件事在联邦法院系统中辗转了多年。

It bounces around the federal court system for years.

最终，埃普斯坦以技术性理由胜诉。

Ultimately, Epstein prevails on technical grounds.

因此，埃普斯坦现在是二连胜。

And so Epstein is now two for two.

他在贝尔斯登公司欺骗撒谎，却基本全身而退。

He cheated and lied at Bear Stearns and essentially got away with it.

现在，他又对这位电子游戏高管欺骗撒谎，再次带着他的钱安然脱身，毫无后果。

Now he's cheating and lying with this video game executive and walking away with his money, once again, with impunity.

对埃普斯坦这样的人来说，其中的讯息非常明确：只要你撒谎和欺骗得足够巧妙、足够频繁，并且足够善于操控，你就能靠这行当赚得盆满钵满。

And for someone like Epstein, the message there is very clear, which is that if you lie and cheat well enough and often enough and are sufficiently manipulative, you can make a real living doing this.

所以，他不仅学会了可以逍遥法外，而且听起来他还发现，自己是在更大范围内、在与他社交圈内的人打交道时得逞的。

So he's not only learning that he can get away with it, but it sounds like he's learning that he's getting away with it at a larger level and with people who are arguably within his social network.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

埃普斯坦除了是个欺诈和盗窃方面的高手外，别无他物。

And Epstein is nothing if not a very good student of fraud and thievery.

你可以看到他从这一阶段逐步迈向下一阶段，每次得逞后，他的野心和胆量都越来越大。

And you can see him progressing from one stage of this to the next and getting more ambitious and bolder and bolder the more times he pulls this off and the more times he gets away with it.

那么，他接下来会去哪里？

So where does he go from here?

因此，埃普斯坦在这个时期开始自称是金融追债猎人。

So Epstein around this time has been referring to himself as a financial bounty hunter.

基本上，就是那种在全球各地追查隐藏资产的人。

Basically, someone who, like, tracks down hidden assets all over the world.

而碰巧的是，此时我们正处于二十世纪八十年代初。

And as it happens, we're in the kind of early nineteen eighties at this point.

他当时正在与一位名叫安娜·奥布雷贡的西班牙女演员约会。

He is dating a Spanish actress named Anna Obregon.

嗯。

Mhmm.

结果发现，他们在纽约一家证券公司的崩盘中损失了数百万美元。

And it turns out realized that they have lost millions of dollars in the implosion of a securities firm in New York.

于是他们聘请埃普斯坦去追查他们丢失的资金。

And so they hire Epstein to track down their missing money.

他与一位朋友合作，这位朋友是前联邦检察官。

And he pairs up with a friend of his who's a former federal prosecutor.

他们两人接下来几年致力于追查这些失踪资产。

And together, they spend the next couple years trying to track down these missing assets.

果然，他们找到了。

And lo and behold, they find them.

这些资产藏在开曼群岛的一家银行里。

They're in a bank in the Cayman Islands.

嗯。

Mhmm.

埃普斯坦和他朋友包了一架飞机，前往塔曼，不知怎的就带着数百万美元的证券离开了。

And Epstein and his buddy charter a jet, go down to Taman, and somehow walk away with millions of dollars of these securities.

他们成功追回了资金，并从中获得了一定比例的报酬。

They recover it and get paid a certain portion of that as a fee.

到这个时候，埃普斯坦几乎肯定已经是个百万富翁了，这对他来说是一次非凡的逆转——几年前，他还只是一个努力靠当高中老师谋生的普通工薪阶层。

And so Epstein, by this point, is almost certainly a millionaire, which is really it's a quite an extraordinary turnaround for a guy who, just a few years earlier, was this working class guy trying to make a living as a high school teacher.

不过，这笔追回资金的故事也很有趣，因为近年来关于埃普斯坦的一个说法是，他根本不是什么金融天才。

The story of the recovered money, though, is also so interesting because one of the narratives about Epstein in recent years, in recent memory, is that this guy was not actually a financial genius.

你一遍又一遍地听到这种说法。

That's the thing you get you you hear over and over again.

人们会问：既然他并没有在任何方面展现出特别出众的能力，为什么这些亿万富翁会把数百万美元交给他管理？

People are like, why would would these billionaires hand him millions of dollars to manage when he wasn't proving himself as singular in any particular way?

但在我看来，这是唯一一个我能想到的、他真正为他人提供了独特且切实价值的故事。

But this is the only story I think I am familiar with where he really provides tangible value to people in a way that does seem quite singular.

没错。

Right.

坦率地说，这正是我在报道和理解这个故事时一直有些困惑的地方。

And to be frank, it's one of the things I've struggled with a little bit in reporting this story and in understanding the story.

因为埃普斯坦喜欢把自己塑造成一位金融天才。

Because Epstein, he likes to present himself as this financial genius.

没错。

Right.

但我们没有看到任何证据支持这一说法。

We have not seen evidence to support that claim.

不过，我们确实看到一些显示出他与众不同之处的聪明才智。

We do see here some glimmer of cleverness that does set him apart.

因此，就在这一时期，埃普斯坦积累了足够的财富，从当初被贝尔斯登扫地出门、夹着尾巴逃走，变成了如今以重要客户身份重返贝尔斯登。

And so around this time, Epstein has amassed enough money that he has gone from having been kind of chased out of Bear Stearns with his tail between his legs to now he returns to Bear Stearns, this time as a valued client.

他通过这家券商进行大量交易，为贝尔斯登带来收入，这让贝尔斯登非常希望维持与他的良好关系。

He's doing lots of trading through the firm, which produces revenue for Bear Stearns, which makes Bear Stearns very eager to keep him in its good graces.

因此，他们开始为他提供一些便利。

And so they start extending some favors to him.

什么样的恩惠？

Favors like what?

嗯，埃普斯坦在公司的一位前经理，现在负责管理他作为客户，有一位非常年轻漂亮的助理，名叫帕特里夏·施密特。

Well, one of Epstein's former managers at the firm, who is now helping to run him as a client, has a very attractive young assistant named Patricia Schmidt.

1987年的一个晚上，这位经理让施密特晚上给埃普斯坦的公寓送一些文件。

And one night in 1987, the manager asks Schmidt to deliver some papers to Epstein's apartment at night.

施密特去了他的公寓。

And Schmidt goes over to the apartment.

埃普斯坦为她泡了茶，带她参观了他那间不错的公寓楼，并邀请她随时来使用楼里的游泳池。

Epstein makes her tea, gives her a tour of his very nice apartment building, and invites her to come back whenever she wants to use the building's swimming pool.

施密特接受了这个提议，于是她和埃普斯坦之间开始了长达一年的性关系。

And Schmidt takes him up on that offer, and thus begins a yearlong sexual relationship between Schmidt and Epstein.

我们在调查中发现，这位花旗银行的经理在其他多次场合也派年轻的女助理去埃普斯坦的公寓，结果都发展成了性关系。

And one of the things we found in our reporting is that the same Bear Stearns manager on multiple other occasions also sent young female assistants over to Epstein's apartment, and that ended up leading to sexual relationships.

埃普斯坦似乎意识到，如果花旗银行能用女性作为筹码，那他也可以。

And Epstein seems to realize that if Bear Stearns can use women as a source of leverage, so can he.

当我与施密特交谈时，她非常清醒地认识到自己在这段关系中的角色，知道自己被利用了。

And Schmidt, when I spoke with her, she was very clear eyed about her role in this and that she was being used.

她向我描述说，我是他的玩物，而埃普斯坦认为我是一个能帮助他实现目标的人。

And the way she described it to me was that I was his plaything, and Epstein perceived her as someone that's going to help him get where he wants to go.

果然，我们发现他开始让施密特做其他事情，比如让她带他的客户和熟人参观华尔街，带他们进入贝尔斯登公司，甚至带他们去吃顿好饭。

And sure enough, we see him start to use Schmidt for other things, such as he would have Schmidt give his clients and acquaintances tours around Wall Street, bringing them into Bear Stearns, maybe take them out to a nice dinner.

因此，埃普斯坦发现，他可以利用年轻貌美的女性作为一种强大的资源，来博取他想要做生意的富有权势人士的青睐并建立关系。

And so Epstein had discovered that he could use attractive young women as a potent form of currency as he sought to impress and cultivate relationships with rich and powerful people whom he wanted to do business with.

他利用了他人对性欲的动机，如果他送一位女性去参加他们的会议，这些人就可能为他做点什么。

He's taking advantage of the fact that other people are motivated by sex, and they might do something for him if he does something for them, I e, send this woman out to meetings with them.

据我们所知，这很可能是埃普斯坦首次真正意识到自己能够利用女性来推动自己的议程。

As far as we can tell, this is probably the first time that Epstein has really fully discovered his ability to use women to really advance his own agenda.

与此同时，大约在这个时候，埃普斯坦也建立了足够多的人脉并积累了足够的财富，这些因素开始相互叠加放大。

And at the same time, around now, Epstein has also really cultivated enough connections and built enough wealth that those things start compounding upon each other.

在接下来的十年里，我们会看到埃普斯坦将这种模式推向更高层次，开始与美国金融界和社会顶层的精英建立联系。

And we will see over the ensuing decade that Epstein really takes that to the next level and starts building connections with kind of the creme de la creme of American finance and society.

所以他与大卫·洛克菲勒这样的人建立并利用关系，嗯。

And so he'll build and exploit relationships with people like David Rockefeller Mhmm.

比如零售大亨莱斯·韦克斯纳，最终还与摩根大通这样的大机构和大银行建立联系。

Like Les Wexner, the retail tycoon, Ultimately, with big institutions and big banks like JPMorgan.

这就是我们现在所熟知的爱泼斯坦。

And this is the Epstein who we all now know.

对吧？

Right?

他是一个人，不仅建立了一个由他虐待的年轻女性和女孩组成的庞大网络，还有一群支持他、纵容他的富有、有权势、知名的男性。

As someone who has built this huge network, not only of young women and girls whom he's abusing, but also this cast of rich, powerful, famous men who have supported him and enabled him along the way.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

嘿。

Hey.

我是《纽约时报烹饪》的沃恩·布里兰德。

It's Vaughn Breland from New York Times Cooking.

寒冷的天气来了，我不是气象学家，但我认为天气预报说你应该和我们一起烘焙。

Colder weather is here, and I'm no meteorologist, but I think the forecast says you should bake with us.

这些是豪华饼干。

These are deluxe cookies.

你们想试试吗？

Do you guys wanna try this?

天啊。

Oh my god.

我能吃掉五十亿个这种饼干。

I can eat 5,000,000,000 of these.

从搅拌碗到饼干进嘴，大约只需三十分钟。

Mixing bowl to cookie in your mouth in about thirty minutes.

看这个颜色。

Oh, look at this color.

闻起来真香。

Smells so good.

你最好切一下，因为这会弄得一团糟。

You better cut because this is gonna get messy.

听好了。

Listen.

即使你烤箱里现在有毛衣，我向你保证，《纽约时报》烹饪版有适合每个人的食谱。

Even if there's sweaters in your oven right now, I promise at New York Times Cooking, we have a recipe for everyone.

所以，来 nytcooking.com 和我们一起烘焙吧。

So come bake with us at nytcooking.com.

所以，大卫，你已经描述了埃普斯坦在早年学到的许多让他攀上社会阶梯、积累巨额财富，并最终长期从事犯罪活动的教训。

So, David, you've described a lot of the lessons that Epstein learned in his early years that allowed him to climb his way up the social ladder, that allowed him to amass great wealth, and, of of course, enabled his criminal activity over many, many years.

但你还没有提到一个名字：唐纳德·特朗普。

But one name that you have not mentioned is Donald Trump.

对总统施加的压力促使了这些文件的公开，因为人们希望了解政府掌握的关于杰弗里·埃普斯坦及其犯罪行为和所涉网络的证据。

And pressure on the president is what led to the disclosure of these files because people want to understand what evidence the government has about Jeffrey Epstein and his criminal behavior and the network in which he operated.

因此，我想知道，我们该如何看待唐纳德·特朗普在埃普斯坦早年生活中的角色？

And so I wonder then, how are we to think about where Donald Trump fits into Epstein's early years?

埃普斯坦和特朗普在相当长的一段时间里，基本上从20世纪80年代末到21世纪初，活跃在非常相似的社会圈子里。

Well, Epstein and Trump were operating in very similar social circles for a number of years, basically, from the late nineteen eighties into the early two thousands.

他们有时显然非常亲密。

They were, at times, apparently very close friends.

我们的同事尼克·康菲索里花了数月时间深入调查此事。

And our colleague, Nick Confessori, has just spent months digging into this.

他的调查发现之一是，他们不仅多年来是亲密朋友，嗯。

And one of the findings in his investigation was that not only were they close friends for years Mhmm.

而且他们还在争夺年轻女性。

But they were also competing with each other for young women.

尼克在他的报道中将埃普斯坦和特朗普描述为彼此的搭讪伙伴。

And Nick, in his story, described Epstein and Trump as being each one another's wingmen.

话虽如此，关于他们关系的确切性质，比如两人之间是否存在商业往来，仍有许多未解之谜。

That being said, there's still a lot of unanswered questions about the exact nature of that relationship, if there were business dealings between the two of them, for example.

目前尚不清楚，特朗普政府手中尚未公开的埃普斯坦文件中是否藏有相关答案。

And it is not clear to me whether there are answers that are lurking in these as yet undisclosed Epstein files that the Trump administration is sitting on.

一种理解方式是，最初司法部被告知并依法必须公开的文件，是与多年来对爱泼斯坦的联邦调查相关的资料。

And one way to think about this is that at the outset, what the Justice Department has been told and is required under law to release are files related to the federal investigations of Epstein over the years.

我不清楚联邦调查人员是否对爱泼斯坦交往的那些人——无论是特朗普，还是莱昂·布莱克、莱斯·韦克斯纳之类的人——进行了大量调查。

And it is not clear to me that federal investigators were doing a whole lot of investigating into the men with whom Epstein was associated, whether that's Trump or men like Leon Black or Les Wexner or people like that.

因此，如果这些人并未成为调查对象，我们不太可能在这些文件中看到大量关于他们的信息。

And so to the extent that those were not subjects of investigation, we're not likely to see a tremendous amount about them in these files.

但与此同时，还有一个问题：为什么特朗普及其政府从一开始就如此不愿公开这些文件的内容？

But at the same time, there's also a question of why exactly Trump and his administration have been so reluctant to come clean about what is in these files to begin with.

如果他们在今年早些时候承诺公开时就立即发布了这些材料，我们可能根本不会讨论这件事了。

And if they had just released this stuff when they said they would back early in this year, we might not be talking about this anymore.

而他们如此坚决地反对完全透明，这确实暗示文件中存在他们想要隐藏的内容。

And the fact that they have been fighting so hard against full transparency here, it does suggest that there is something in there that they want to hide.

但与此同时，我一直不太明白的是，我们称之为‘爱泼斯坦文件’的这些材料，如果其中包含特朗普或这些其他显赫人物的犯罪证据，这些证据多年来一直掌握在司法部手中，跨越了多届政府。

But at the same time, one of the things I've never quite understood about the Epstein files, as we have been calling them, is if there was evidence of criminal behavior on the part of Trump or any of these other notable figures, that has been in the possession of the DOJ across multiple administrations for years.

我并不是想显得天真，说：如果司法部掌握了犯罪证据，为什么他们不进行调查呢？

And so I don't mean to come off as naive and say, like, if the DOJ had evidence of crimes, why would they not investigate it?

但我就是不太明白，为什么我们相信这些信息之前没有曝光出来。

But I I just don't quite understand why exactly we believe that it wouldn't have come out before now.

这并不显而易见，至少有两个原因。

It's not self evident that this would have already come out for at least two reasons.

一个原因是，我认为现在普遍接受的共识是，如果一个政府掌握了对其政治对手的不利信息，就会立即公布。

One reason is that, you know, it's become, I think, accepted conventional wisdom that if an administration has damaging information about its political enemies, that that will immediately be released.

但这并不是司法部历史上一贯的做法。

That is not the way justice departments have historically operated.

因此，完全有可能前一届政府的司法部曾掌握过关于其对手的不利信息，却因职责所在而将其保密。

And so it's entirely possible that a previous administration's justice department might have had damaging information about its opponents that it kept under wraps because it was supposed to do so.

这是第一点。

That's thing one.

第二点是，也完全可能存在一些报告、怀疑或调查线索，曾指向一些有权势的人物和机构，但这些调查最终无果，或许是因为缺乏证据。

Thing two is that it is also entirely possible that there could have been reports or suspicions or investigative trails that were followed that did lead to powerful men and powerful institutions, and those investigations went nowhere, maybe because there wasn't evidence.

但另一方面，也可能是因为联邦调查人员长期以来对涉及白领犯罪的案件缺乏积极追查的动力。

But, also, it could be because there's a a long history of federal investigators not aggressively pursuing cases that involve white collar defendants.

当你面对世界上一些最富有、最有权势的人时，认为这些人可能逍遥法外并不奇怪，也不属于阴谋论。

When you have some of the richest, most powerful people in the world, it is not surprising, and it's not a conspiracy to think that those people might get away with it.

我想我之所以一直纠结于这一点，是因为感觉大家都在等待另一只靴子落地。

I guess the reason why I'm sort of lingering on this is that it feels like everybody is waiting for another shoe to drop.

每个人都屏息以待，想知道这些文件里到底藏着什么，也许这些文件最终会解答我们长期以来关于爱泼斯坦圈子和唐纳德·特朗普的疑问。

Everyone is waiting with bated breath to see what's in these files, and maybe these files will finally answer our persistent questions about Epstein's orbit and Donald Trump.

但根据你的报道，逐渐浮现的画面似乎是，我们其实已经大致知道了爱泼斯坦是如何成为爱泼斯坦的答案——他并不需要成为一个秘密特工，或者像这些年冒出的其他阴谋论所暗示的那样。

But it feels like the picture that's emerging, at least from your reporting, is that we already kind of know the answer about how Epstein became Epstein in some way, which is that he didn't need to be a secret spy or whatever these other conspiracy theories that have popped up in intervening years would suggest.

他只需要是一个极其精明的人，很早就意识到自己能够操控他人、实施犯罪，并且在攀爬阶梯的过程中，几乎可以为所欲为。

He just needed to be a remarkably savvy guy who learned very early on that he could manipulate people, he could commit crimes, and he could basically get away with anything he wanted as he climbed up the ladder.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得对。

I think that's right.

我认为已经有很多出色的报道，层层剥开了爱泼斯坦事件的诸多面纱。

And I think there's been a lot of really good reporting that has peeled back a lot of layers of the Epstein story.

我认为仍然有很多层未被揭开，而且我对这些文件在发布后能起到多大揭密作用并不抱太大希望。

I do think that there are still a bunch of layers left to unpeel, and I'm not holding out a huge degree of confidence that these files, as they get released, are going to do much of that peeling.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我确实认为还有很多重要的问题尚未得到解答。

But I do think there are still a ton of important questions that have not been answered.

我认为多年来，爱泼斯坦事件某种程度上成了一场政治战争的试金石，左派或许多左派人士将其视为攻击唐纳德·特朗普的武器。

And I think the Epstein saga for years now has been kind of a political war shock test, and that people on the left or many people on the left view it as a weapon with which to go after Donald Trump.

我认为右派中很多人则视其为攻击自由派全球主义机构和个人的工具。

I think on the right, a lot of people view this as a vehicle to attack kind of liberal globalist institutions and individuals.

我认为真相很可能介于两者之间。

And I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

对吧？

Right?

有很多非常富有、有权势的男性纵容了爱泼斯坦，甚至可能参与了他的一些罪行。

That there are a lot of very rich, powerful men who enabled Epstein and may have participated in some of his crimes.

我认为这些男性至今尚未受到多少问责，而且我认为我们对这些政府文件中可能包含或不包含的有关这些男性的信息还没有全面的了解。

I do not think that there has been very much accountability for those men yet, and I don't think that we have a full sense of what information may or may not be in these government files pertaining to those men.

但我觉得人们认为可能还有更多内幕即将曝光，部分原因是他们希望通过 Epstein 丑闻击垮政治对手的梦想尚未实现，但另一方面，人们也意识到，有如此多的人支持 Epstein 并纵容他的犯罪网络发展壮大，因此目前只有杰弗里·埃普斯坦和他的同伙吉斯莱恩·麦克斯韦尔两人被追责，这感觉并不对劲。

But I think the reason people think that there may be more shoes to drop, it's partly that their dreams of having their political enemies crushed by the Epstein scandal remain unfulfilled, But it's also partly a recognition that there were so many people involved in supporting Epstein and allowing his criminal network to prosper that it just doesn't feel right that only two people, Jeffrey Epstein and his associate, Ghislain Maxwell, have really been held to account for this so far.

好的。

Okay.

但说到问责，我不禁想，这是否就是这里的重点。

But speaking of being held accountable, I do wonder if that's the takeaway here.

因为一方面，杰弗里·埃普斯坦显然死在了监狱牢房里。

Because on the one hand, obviously, Jeffrey Epstein died in a jail cell.

另一方面，他却逃脱了可怕的罪行，多年来积累了巨额财富和权力。

On the other hand, he got away with horrific crimes and amassed so much money and power over the years.

我们整个对话都在讨论埃普斯坦为达成这一切所学到的教训。

We've been talking this whole conversation about the lessons that Epstein learned in order to do that.

但我确实想知道，作为公众，我们从埃普斯坦的故事和他的结局中，应该学到什么教训。

But I do wonder what lessons we as the public should learn looking at Epstein's story and how he came to an end.

好吧，你看。

Well, look.

死在监狱里绝不是任何人眼中的美好结局。

Dying in a jail cell is no one's idea of a happy ending.

话虽如此，爱泼斯坦的故事本质上是一个逍遥法外的故事。

That said, the story of Epstein is really one of impunity.

正如你所说，尽管多次出现警示信号，尽管有许多警告，尽管许多受害者挺身而出试图揭发他，他还是多年来逃避了惩罚。

And he, as you said, got away with this for years despite repeated red flags, despite many warnings, despite many victims coming forward and trying to blow the whistle on him.

对我来说，这更是一个关于广泛逍遥法外的故事，不仅关乎杰弗里·爱泼斯坦，也关乎他身边许多人，他们中的许多人都尚未公开面对自己在这起事件中所扮演的角色。

And to me, it's also a broader story of impunity, not just about Jeffrey Epstein, but the people around him, many of whom really have not had a public reckoning about the roles they play in this.

人们至今仍如此痴迷于爱泼斯坦事件的原因，我认为，在于还有太多人尚未经历类似的公开清算。

The reason that people remain obsessed about Epstein to a large degree, I think, is that there are so many people out there who have not had a similar public reckoning.

因此，对我来说，最大的启示是：对于那些拥有大量财富、权力和人脉的人来说，他们真的可以为所欲为、逍遥法外。

And so to me, that's the great takeaway, that for people with a lot of money and power and connections, they really can act with impunity.

大卫·恩里克，非常感谢你。

David Enrich, thank you so much.

谢谢您邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

周一深夜，司法部发布了更多与杰弗里·爱泼斯坦调查相关的文件。

Late on Monday night, the Department of Justice released more files related to the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein.

这些文件包含了数百处提及特朗普总统的内容，尽管其中大多数来自媒体报道、未经核实的线索以及调查人员之间的讨论，包括提到特朗普在1993年至1996年间八次乘坐爱泼斯坦的私人飞机。

The documents contained hundreds of references to president Trump, although most of them are from media reports, unverified tips, and discussions among investigators, including a mention that Trump was a passenger on Epstein's private jet eight times between 1993 and 1996.

这些提及内容似乎均不构成不当行为的证据。

None of the mentions appear to be evidence of wrongdoing.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

以下是今天您需要了解的其他信息。

Here's what else you need to know today.

特朗普总统周一宣布，海军将建造两艘新的‘特朗普级’战舰，最终目标是采购25艘。

President Trump announced on Monday that the navy would build two new, quote, Trump class battleships with the eventual goal of acquiring 25.

这一举措是总统将联邦政府的某个方面以自己名字重新命名的最新例证。

The move was the latest example of the president rebranding an aspect of the federal government in his image.

这一声明出台之际，美国已加强对委内瑞拉总统尼古拉斯·马杜罗的威胁，并拦截了为该国石油工业服务的油轮。

The announcement also comes as The US has ratcheted up its threats against Venezuela's president Nicolas Maduro and intercepted tankers that serve the country's oil industry.

此外，一项举措引发了资深记者的批评：CBS新闻在新任主管巴里·韦斯表示该片段需要进一步报道后，突然从《60分钟》的一集中删除了关于萨尔瓦多臭名昭著的塞科特监狱的报道。

And in a move that prompted criticism from a veteran correspondent, CBS News abruptly removed a segment about El Salvador's notorious Secot prison from an episode of sixty minutes after the network's new chief, Barry Weiss, said the segment needed additional reporting.

这一决定在网内网外都遭到谴责，韦斯的批评者认为，此举表明该网络更倾向于向特朗普政府低头，而非维护其新闻独立性。

The decision drew condemnation inside and outside the network, where critics of Weiss saw the move as evidence that the network was more interested in kowtowing to the Trump administration than preserving its journalistic integrity.

本期节目由克莱尔·坦尼斯凯特、奥利维亚·纳特和玛丽·威尔逊制作。

Today's episode was produced by Claire Tennisketter, Olivia Natt, and Mary Wilson.

由德文·泰勒和莱克西·迪奥剪辑。

It was edited by Devin Taylor and Lexi Dio.

配乐由利娅·沙赫·德梅隆、阿莉西亚·贝图贝和玛丽安·洛萨诺提供，音频工程由艾莉莎·莫克利完成。

Contains music by Leah Shah Demeron, Alicia Baitube, and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley.

以上就是《每日新闻》的全部内容。

That's it for The Daily.

我是蕾切尔·阿布拉姆斯。

I'm Rachel Abrams.

明天见。

See you tomorrow.