周日日报：好莱坞的人工智能时刻

嘿。

Hey.

我是《纽约时报烹饪》的沃恩·布雷兰德。

It's Vaughn Breland from New York Times Cooking.

烘焙季节到了。

Baking season is here.

几乎任何蛋糕都可以做成单碗蛋糕。

Almost any cake can be turned into a one bowl cake.

没有什么比刚出炉的牛角面包更适合我的烤箱了。

There's nothing better than a freshly baked croissant for my oven.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我可以

I could

吃掉五十亿个这样的面包。

eat 5,000,000,000 of these.

那是一块布朗尼蛋糕。

That is a brownie.

别害怕。

Don't be afraid.

这个食谱非常宽容，容错率很高。

This is so forgiving.

这些是豪华饼干。

These are deluxe cookies.

在《纽约时报烹饪》我们应有尽有。

At New York Times Cooking, we've got it all.

我们提供各种烘焙技巧、食谱和视频，无论你想做什么烘焙，都来nytcooking.com和我们一起烘焙吧。

We've got tips, recipes, videos for whatever you wanna bake, so come bake with us at nytcooking.com.

来自《纽约时报》，我是迈克尔·洛瓦科。

From New York Times, I'm Michael Lovarco.

这是周日的《每日新闻》。

This is The Daily on Sunday.

我们都以为电视已经死了，但还是想，不如再开一次最后的开发会议？

We all knew TV was dead, but thought, why not squeeze in one last development meeting?

我们有

We have

这是一个视频，一种喜剧小品，由一家名为Particle Six的英国公司制作。

This is a video, a kinda comedy sketch, produced by a company in The United Kingdom called Particle six.

现在，Particle Six自称是全球领先的AI制作工作室。

Now Particle six bills itself as the world's leading AI production studio.

负责人说不行。

The commissioner said no.

人工智能在几分钟内生成了100个更好的创意，完美契合频道数据、收视率，并针对观众进行了优化，

AI generated a 100 better ideas in minutes, perfectly aligned to channel data, viewing figures, optimized for the audience, the

所以这个视频中的所有内容——你们听到的声音、他们所说的话——全部由人工智能生成。

So everything in this video, the voices you're hearing, the words that they're saying, all of it, was generated by artificial intelligence.

这个视频的主角是蒂莉·诺伍德，100%由人工智能生成的女演员。

And the star of this video is Tilly Norwood, 100 Tilly Norwood, An AI generated actress.

就像周日烤肉去上了戏剧课，还被BAFTA优化过一样。

Like if a Sunday roast went to drama school and got BAFTA optimized.

但她能在格雷厄姆·诺顿的节目上哭出来吗？

But can she cry on Graham Norton?

当然可以。

Of

当然可以。

course she can.

而且大多数时候，它都会被剪辑、加字幕，并在TikTok上变现。

And it'll be clipped, subtitled, and monetized on TikTok by most of the time.

这看起来像是一个聪明的偶然之作。

It seemed like a clever one off.

但几个月后，Particle Six宣布诺伍德女士即将与一家大型好莱坞经纪公司签约，这通常是真正人类演员才会有的待遇。

But a few months later, particle six announced that Ms.

但几个月后，Particle Six宣布诺伍德女士即将与一家大型好莱坞经纪公司签约，这通常是真正人类演员才会有的待遇。

Norwood was close to signing a deal to be represented by a major Hollywood talent agency, the kind of thing you'd expect from an actual human actress.

这一消息在好莱坞引起了轰动。

And that news caused a sensation in Hollywood.

天哪。

Good lord.

我们完蛋了。

We're screwed.

演员们纷纷抗议。

Actors howled in protest.

艺术应该留给人类。

The arts should be left to human beings.

你知道，你还是想要真正的人类。

You know, you'll you're still gonna wanna have real people.

最大演员工会的负责人公开反对此事。

The head of the largest actors union came out against it.

她，它，是一个由非法获取的数据合成的产物。

She, it, is a synthetic creation garnered from ill gotten data.

就连薇薇安·戈德堡

Even Whoopi Goldberg

也在《观点》节目中发表了意见。

weighed in on The View.

这意味着人工智能不仅在我的

What this means is AI in the workplace, not just my

工作场所应用，是的。

workplace Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

而是在每一个行业。

But in every industry.

所有这些对蒂莉·诺伍德的抗议，反映了好莱坞对人工智能在电视和电影制作中作用的真正焦虑。

All of this outcry over Tilly Norwood reflects a real anxiety in Hollywood about the role of AI in TV and movie making.

因为人工智能正迅速重塑我们所有人热爱并依赖的娱乐产业。

Because AI is well on its way to remaking an industry we all love and rely upon, which is entertainment.

而你，作为观众，你是无法逃避这一点的。

And you, the viewer, you are not going to be able to escape this.

同样，好莱坞的从业人员也无法逃避。

And neither, for that matter, are the people who work in Hollywood.

所以让我们试着理解它。

So let's try to understand it.

今天是1月18日，星期日。

It's Sunday, January 18.

那么我们开始吧。

So let's get to it.

今天和我一起讨论的，是我《纽约时报》的两位同事，他们一直在深入思考人工智能对好莱坞的影响。

Joining me are two of my colleagues from The Times who think a lot about how AI is impacting Hollywood.

布鲁克斯·巴恩斯，是《纽约时报》驻洛杉矶的娱乐业记者。

Brooks Barnes, a reporter covering Hollywood for the Times out in Los Angeles.

嗨，布鲁克斯。

Hey, Brooks.

你好。

Hey there.

还有我们的影评人艾莉莎·威廉姆森，她和我一起在纽约的演播室。

And Alyssa Wilkinson, one of our film critics who is here with me in the studio in New York.

艾莉莎，欢迎你。

Alyssa, welcome.

很高兴你来了。

Good to have you.

谢谢。

Thanks.

能来这里我很高兴。

It's good to be here.

所以，布鲁克斯，我觉得我们需要先明确一下我们在这里讨论的是什么。

So I think we need to establish, Brooks, what we're talking about here.

我想我们大多数人直觉上都明白，电视和电影制作已经使用复杂的计算机生成图像很长时间了。

I think most of us intuitively understand that TV and filmmaking have used elaborate computer generated imagery for a very long time.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，《阿凡达》就是三小时的CGI盛宴。

I mean, Avatar was a three hour orgy of CGI.

那么这里到底有什么新意？

So what's actually new here?

我们到底在谈论什么？

What are we actually talking about?

AI是一个总称。

So AI is an umbrella term.

人们真正指的是其中的两件事。

What people really mean are two things under that.

一是非生成式AI，即辅助性工具。

One is non generative AI, tools that assist.

它们不会从零开始创造新内容。

They don't create new content from scratch.

想想那些帮助剪辑师剪辑电影的工具，帮助音效设计师从嘈杂环境中分离对白的工具，以及数字逆龄技术。

So think about tools that help editors cut movies, tools that help sound designers isolate dialogue on a noisy set, digital de aging.

如果你看过《夺宝奇兵：命运转盘》，哈里森·福特在影片的许多片段中看起来像三四十岁。

If you saw Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny, Harrison Ford appears to be 30 or 40 for chunks of that film.

但他实际上已经八十多岁了。

He's really in his eighties.

这都属于人工智能的一种形式。

That's all a form of AI.

微调、小修小补。

Fine tuning, tinkering.

微调，这种技术在好莱坞无处不在，每个制片厂、每个电视台、每个流媒体平台都在用。

Fine tuning, and that's under the hood in Hollywood everywhere, you know, every studio, every network, every streaming service.

新的、有争议的部分是生成式人工智能，这类工具会抓取海量信息，然后利用这些信息生成全新内容。

The new part and the controversial part is generative AI, tools that scrape vast amounts of information and then use that to create new content.

明白了。

Got it.

这根本不是小修小补。

So this is not remotely tinkering.

这是从庞大的生成式AI海洋中完全重新创造的内容。

This is whole cloth creation from the vast generative sea of AI.

没错。

Correct.

一个例子是亚马逊上一部关于圣经的剧集，叫《大卫之家》。

One one example is a biblical show on Amazon called the House of David.

非常受欢迎。

Very popular.

亚马逊表示，全球有四千五百万人观看了这部剧的部分内容。

45,000,000 people globally watched part of it, Amazon said.

因此，他们使用AI生成了数百个原本会因成本过高而无法拍摄的场景。

So they used AI to to generate hundreds of scenes that would have been too expensive to film otherwise.

这一切都始于大起义的时代。

It all began in the days of the great rebellion.

例如，有一集开头有一段关于大卫杀死巨人歌利亚的创造过程的场景。

For example, there's this sequence at the beginning of one episode about the creation of Goliath, the giant that David kills.

这是一段视觉效果震撼的蒙太奇，展现了一个宏大的奇幻景观。

And it's this big visually impressive montage, a sprawling fantasy landscape.

你看到有山脉。

You've got mountains.

你看到天使从天空中燃烧着坠落。

You've got angels falling from the sky on fire.

但上帝因天使的罪惩罚了他们，将他们放逐到永恒的黑暗中。

But God punished the angels for their sin banish them into eternal All

这一切都是用AI制作的。

of this was done with AI.

该剧的创作者表示，他们原本打算做些不那么壮观的内容，因为他们确实没有大预算。

The creator of the show said they were going to do something less impressive because they really didn't have a big budget.

但一旦他们获得了AI技术，现在就能做出这种宏大的史诗级场景。

But once they got access to AI, now they can do this big epic thing.

你们就是我，我的孩子们。

They are you, my children.

另一个许多人可能看到这种情况的地方是，AI工具可能基于某人的外貌，甚至他们过去的表演来训练，从而生成全新的表演。

Another place where a lot of people might be seeing this, for instance, is that an AI tool may have been trained on a person's likeness or maybe even their past performances in order to generate a completely new performance.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那

That

这让我想到了《疯狂的麦克斯：狂暴之路》的续集《芙莉欧莎》。

actually makes me think of Furiosa, the sequel to Mad Max Fury Road.

到他们制作这部续集时，原版中的一位演员已经去世了，因此他们使用AI来帮助重现他的表演。

By the time they did that, an actor from the original had died, so they used AI to help recreate his performance.

是的。

Yes.

这就是我们见过这种情况发生的方式。

That is a way that we have seen this happen.

所以你们在这里所区分的这一点，小姐，非常重要：我们习惯于看到那些依赖计算机创作的东西，但我们并不习惯于这些创作是由计算机本身生成的。

So the distinction you guys are drawing here, miss, is important is we are used to seeing things that are created relying upon computers, but we're not really used to those creations being created by computers.

没错。

Correct.

甚至与你现在去看《阿凡达》时所看到的情况形成对比——那是一种演员的表演，再通过数字特效进行修饰。

Even in contrast to what you might see if you go to see, for instance, Avatar right now, which is an actor's performance that's painted over with a digital effect.

这是经典案例。

That's the classic.

这是经典案例。

That's the classic.

这是完全由AI工具生成的。

This is this is fully created by an AI tool.

人们看到这种情况的另一个地方是社交媒体。

Another place where people are seeing this is social media.

你知道，Instagram上充斥着完全由AI生成的视频。

You know, Instagram is awash in videos that are completely created by AI.

你知道吧？

You know?

有时候你甚至都注意不到。

And sometimes you don't even notice it.

我丈夫拥有艺术史硕士学位，前几天他跟我说，这位老奶奶是不是挺可爱的

My husband has a master's degree in art history, and the other day came to me and said, isn't this little old

这位老太太可爱吗？

lady cute?

数据。

Data.

你觉得男人送你花怎么样？

What's your take on men who bring you flowers?

花会凋谢的，亲爱的。

Flowers die, honey.

我的香奈儿包包才是永恒的。

My Chanel bag is forever.

知道区别。

Know the difference.

你更愿意

Would you rather

坐在你男人身上？你意识到那是AI视频吧。

sit on your man's You realize that's an AI video.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

完全没想到。

Had no idea.

别忘了，现在电视上到处都是广告，你过去可能看到过动画或真人出演，但现在你看到的是AI制作的广告。

And don't forget, there's all these commercials we're seeing all over TV where you might have seen perhaps, like, animation in the past or you might have seen human actors, and now you're seeing AI created commercials.

你知道吗，可口可乐上个假期季就因为这个在社交媒体上引发了一点风波。

You know, Coca Cola kinda kicked up a little bit of a firestorm on social media over that this past holiday season.

那个广告是什么？

What was the ad?

你知道的，可口可乐总是做些温馨庆祝节日的广告。

Just, you know, Coke always does these little embrace and celebrate the holiday ads.

而这一次，他们用了AI。

And this one, they used AI.

很多人对这个并不满意。

There's people people were not thrilled about this.

那是AI制作的可口可乐卡车驶过，旁边是可爱的AI企鹅和AI兔子。

It was AI coke trucks driving by what were supposed to be adorable AI penguins and adorable AI rabbits.

但人们觉得它毫无灵魂，评论家称之为数字垃圾，而这恰恰与他们想要传达的情感温暖背道而驰。

But people really saw it as soulless and, you know, digital slop was what the critics said, which is sort of the opposite of what they were going for, which was emotional warmth.

好吧。

Okay.

所以现在，我想我们可以达成共识：好莱坞确实已经被AI生成的内容淹没了。

So now that I think we can all agree that we are in fact awash in AI generative content in Hollywood.

我想稍微退一步，谈谈人工智能是如何进入电影和电视领域的，并在那里站稳了脚跟。

I wanna back up for just a second and talk about how AI came to the world of film and television and has gained a foothold there.

因为据我回忆，这个故事最初是许多创意人士公开反对人工智能，呼吁禁止它，并试图在工会合同中限制其使用。

Because this story, as I recall, it begins with lots of creative types being vocally opposed to the idea, pushing for it to be banned, trying to put restrictions on its use into union contracts.

但如今，我们却身处其中。

And yet, here we are.

显然，这场入侵已经开始了。

Clearly, this invasion has begun.

所以请帮我们理解，这一切是如何发生的。

So help us understand how that happened.

就在几年前，人工智能还是好莱坞的头号反派。

So just a couple years ago, AI was the absolute villain in Hollywood.

令人惊讶的是，好莱坞作为一个整体，对人工智能的态度竟然发生了如此巨大的转变。

It's kind of amazing the degree to which Hollywood as an entity has has turned around on it.

尽管艺术家们已经公开表示，他们有多么厌恶这种技术。

Even though that artists have said publicly, you know, how much they they despise this.

在我的报道中显示，他们其实是一群充满好奇心的人。

In my reporting, it shows that that, you know, they're curious people.

他们对摆弄这项技术很感兴趣。

They're they're interested in in tinkering with it.

特别是导演们，对这种技术能做什么非常感兴趣。

In particular, directors are really interested in what this kind of technology can do.

因此，他们开始更多地进行实验。

And so they've started to experiment more.

我认为好莱坞一直如此，它是一种与技术紧密结合的艺术形式。

I think there's also something that's true of Hollywood and always has been, which is that it's an art form that is married to technology.

一个世纪以来，电影界的每一次变革都是由新技术的发展推动的，无论是更轻便的摄像机、彩色电影，还是胶片向数字的转变，等等。

That every change that's happened in the movies for a century has been driven by the development of some new technology, whether it's lighter cameras or it's color or it's film changing to digital or anything like that.

因此，许多电影人——他们自己往往也是技术爱好者——并不愿意说，我们完全不用这项技术。

And so there is a reticence among many filmmakers who often are kind of gearheads themselves to say, well, we're just going to never use this technology at all.

他们更愿意思考：我们可以在哪里使用它？

They want to think about, well, where can we use this?

我们该如何使用它？

How can we use this?

而不是完全否定它。

And not just write it off completely.

所以这两方面确实在相互冲突。

So those two things are definitely battling each other.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

但另一方面，这对很多人来说也是一个严重的劳工问题。

While there's also the flip side of this, which is that it's a serious labor issue for a lot of people.

我们会谈谈这个。

We'll talk about that.

为什么这对人们来说是个严重的劳工问题？

Why it's a serious labor issue for people specifically?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，好莱坞有一件事很多人没想到，那就是在好莱坞工作的人中，绝大多数都是中产阶级或以下阶层。

So, you know, one thing that is true about Hollywood that a lot of people don't think about is that the vast majority of people who work in Hollywood are, you know, middle class or below.

他们只是靠从事行业中的某些部分获得一份普通收入，比如制作你看到的视觉效果。

They're just making a kind of a normal living, working in parts of the industry that, you know, they're they're doing the visual effects that you see.

他们是群演。

They're background actors.

他们拍广告。

They're doing commercials.

他们就是靠这些来谋生的。

They're you know, that's how they're making a living.

他们靠这些获得工会会员资格，从而享有医疗保险。

That's how they're getting their union cards so they can have health care.

当像人工智能这样的技术出现时，制片厂高管看到后，觉得这是削减部分人力、节省成本的方法。

What happens with something like AI is that, you know, the studio executives see it and see that this is a way to cut some of that labor out and save money.

但对于从事这些工作的人来说，他们的工作机会就消失了。

But for the people who perform that labor, the jobs go away.

这也意味着进入这个行业的大门消失了。

And that also means that the funnel into the industry goes away.

因此，有很多你听说过的人曾经通过这些途径进入行业，但现在这些途径都被切断了。

So there's any number of people who you have heard of who came up through the industry through those routes, but, you know, now those routes get cut off.

你是说莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥曾经当过群演吗？

You're saying Leonardo DiCaprio was once a background actor.

我不确定莱昂纳多是不是这样，但我最近读到， Screen Actors Guild 的成员中有一半在他们的职业生涯中做过群演。

Well, I don't know if Leo was, but I read recently that, you know, half of, the Screen Actors Guild members have done background work in their, you know, in their career.

当这类工作开始消失，人们进入这个行业的方式就越来越少，这意味着越来越少有有趣的声音能参与到这个行业里。

So those kinds of jobs start to go away, and that means that there's fewer and fewer ways for people to come into the industry, which means that you just have fewer and fewer interesting voices getting involved in the industry.

但这可能会从根本上改变一个已经举步维艰的行业的运作方式。

But that could fundamentally change the way that an already struggling industry operates.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

有许多类工作正面临直接的威胁。

There are whole categories of jobs that are under direct threat.

例如，配音行业。

For example, the dubbing business.

现在有了技术，比如在YouTube节目上，他们只需按一个按钮，用英语表演的演员的声音就会立即变成葡萄牙语、俄语或日语。

You've got technology now that for YouTube shows, for example, they press a button and the actor who performed in English, that voice is instantly now speaking Portuguese or Russian or Japanese.

而这只是即将应用于流媒体服务的技术的开端。

And that is just the start of what's going to come to, you know, streaming services.

这些是全球性的平台。

These are global platforms.

因此，当你开始取消整个职业时，人们对自己的未来就开始感到非常恐惧。

And so when you start cutting out entire professions, it starts getting really scary for people.

对。

Right.

我们刚才谈了很多关于在好莱坞工作的人。

So we're talking a lot about people who work in Hollywood.

但自私地说，让我们聊聊我这个观众。

But selfishly, let's talk about me, the viewer here.

我想谈谈电视制作方和电影制作人与观众之间的契约，也就是我们所有人对规则的共识。

And I wanna talk about the contract that TV makers and filmmakers have with the audience, the understanding we all have about what the rules of the road are.

艾莉莎，希望你对人工智能在纪录片中的应用思考了很多。

And, Alyssa, hopefully, you've thought a lot about the way AI is being used in documentaries

嗯。

Mhmm.

以及这些应用如何改变并挑战我们对纪录片内容和历史文献的理解。

And how that might be changing and challenging the way we think about what is in a documentary and what is a historical artifact.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

所以你知道，纪录片是

I so, you know, documentaries are

与剧本电影或电视剧略有不同，因为我们观看纪录片时，会默认其中所呈现的内容确实发生过并真实存在于世界上。

a little different from a scripted movie or a TV show in that we assume when we watch a documentary that the things we're looking at actually happens and existed in the world.

对。

Right.

如果我们观看的是档案视频，比如一些旧时代的影像，我们会默认这些旧事确实发生过。

And if we're looking at archival video, for instance, which is just video of old stuff, we assume that the old stuff happened.

我确实这么认为。

And so I do.

这正是纪录片之所以成为纪录片的原因。

That's what makes a documentary a documentary.

这对纪录片来说是至关重要的。

That is essential for documentary.

所以，发生过的一件事是，我听说尤其是流媒体平台为了填补内容需求，加快了纪录片的制作速度，导致制片人被要求制作所谓的‘生成的档案影像’。

So one thing that has happened, that I have heard of happening is the speed at which, particularly streaming platforms, to turn out documentaries to kind of feed the content pipeline has led to producers being asked to create, quote, unquote, generated archival footage, for instance.

于是，作为观众的你，实际上在观看一些看起来像真实事物、但其实并不真实的内容。

So then you, the viewer, are actually watching something that's, you know, it looks like something that could be real, and it wasn't real.

这会带来许多不同方面的问题，其中之一是，未来我们可能会陷入一个世界，那里有大量短视频片段，我们却无法分辨哪些是真实的，哪些不是。

And this, has many different ways that it could be a problem, but one of them is that, you know, in the future, we may end up with a world where we have a bunch of little clips of videos that we can't discern which ones were real and which ones weren't.

而且要

And do

做这种工作的纪录片制作者会披露这一点吗？还是他们根本不认为这对观众有意义？

the documentarians who do this work, do they disclose this, or they just don't think it's actually all that meaningful to the audience?

我所接触的电影制作人都讨厌这种做法。

So the filmmakers that I've talked to hate this.

他们觉得这非常令人沮丧和糟糕。

Like, they think this is very frustrating and bad.

因此，纪录片界的做法是，只要使用生成式人工智能，就要在屏幕上明确披露，以便观众知晓。

And so the push in the documentary world is to whenever you use generative AI to disclose it on screen so that the, you know, the viewer knows.

一个经常出现的例子是，有时纪录片的主角可能已经去世，而你可以生成他们的声音。

So one example that does pop up a lot and people may have seen is sometimes, the subject of a documentary, for instance, may be deceased, and you can generate their voice.

安东尼·波登就发生过这种情况。

This happened with Anthony Bourdain.

安东尼·波登就发生过这种情况。

This happened with Anthony Bourdain.

已经有不少其他纪录片使用了这种技术。

There's been a number of other documentaries where this has been used.

而且，你知道，也可能存在人们使用生成的视觉素材的情况。

And, you know, there may be instances in which people do use generated, visual material as well.

但我们的理念是，要确保观众能够信任他们在屏幕上看到的内容。

But the idea is we want to make sure that the audience can trust what they're seeing on screen.

你可以想象，这可能会变得有点尴尬。

You can imagine that would get kind of awkward.

比如，接下来这部纪录片包含了已故演员的伪造声音。

Like, the following documentary contains fake versions of deceased actors' voices.

是的。

Yes.

祝您观看愉快。

Enjoy.

确实如此。

It's true.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

我认为这是一个许多人真正面临考验的地方。

I think this is a place where a lot of people's kind of rubber meets the road.

你开始意识到，AI生成的内容可能会对真理与虚构、虚假信息等重大问题造成实际影响。

You start to understand how AI generated material could create a real problem for things as lofty as truth and fiction and, you know, misinformation and things like that.

在虚构作品方面，观众是否有权知道AI被用来增强表演？

And on the fictional side, does the audience have the right to know that AI was used to juice up a performance?

观众是否有权知道阿德里安·布洛迪在《粗野主义》中的口音是被增强的？

Does the viewer have the right to know that Adrian Brody's accent in the brutalist was enhanced.

没错。

Right.

那他是否还配得上奥斯卡奖？

And does he then deserve the Academy Award?

奥斯卡奖。

The Academy Award.

他凭借这一表演获得了最佳男主角奖。

He won best actor for that performance.

最佳男主角奖，主要是因为他自己的表演。

Best actor for most of his own acting.

说起来。

Speaking.

是的。

Yes.

就是这个，没错。

This was the this yes.

你知道吗，去年奥斯卡颁奖季期间，这在好莱坞引发了巨大争议。

You know, this was a big controversy in in Hollywood last year during Oscar season.

事实上，争议如此之大，以至于学院随后澄清了规则，表示在这种情况下使用AI并不会使表演失去资格。

In fact, so much that the academy then clarified its rules and said, using AI in this sense does not, exclude a performance.

对。

Right.

但如今在电影中，如果你坚持看到片尾字幕结束——我知道只有我这样的怪人会这么做——你经常会看到一句话：本片制作过程中未使用任何生成式AI。

But one thing that you do see a lot in films these days, if you stay to the end of the credits, which I know only sickos like me do, but, is you'll see something at the end where people will say, no generative AI was used in the making of this film.

我不禁想，我们会不会经常看到类似‘有机认证’的标签出现在电影上，让观众知道影片中没有任何AI成分。

And I do wonder if we will see more often kind of almost like a certified organic label placed on films so that people know that nothing was used.

或者，也许我们不会看到这样的情形。

Or maybe we won't.

也许我们会开始默认所有影片都使用了AI，就像我们默认食物中

Maybe we'll just start assuming that everything has AI in it the way that we assume that

含有额外的糖分一样。

everything has extra sugar

一样。

in it.

所有东西。

Everything.

或者所有东西都是用绿幕拍摄的，等等。

Or everything was shot with a green screen or whatever.

你知道的。

You know?

好的。

Okay.

我们先休息一下。

Well, we're gonna take a break.

回来后，你，悲观主义者，得面对一个事实：在好莱坞的AI领域，并没有那么糟糕。

And when we return, you, Debbie Downers, are gonna have to reckon with the fact that it's not all that bad in the world of AI in Hollywood.

前景中有一些亮点。

There are some bright spots on the horizon.

有一些真正的创作潜力，我们马上就会探讨这些。

There are some serious creative potentials, and we're gonna explore those in just a moment.

那是你的想法。

That's what you think.

最近，我们询问了你们如何分享《纽约时报》账户，你们对《纽约时报》游戏有很多话说。

Recently, we asked about how you share your New York Times account, and you had a lot to say about New York Times games.

我需要自己的《纽约时报》登录账号，因为我妹妹填字谜的水平比我差太多了。

I need my own New York Times login because my sister is so much worse at the crossword than I am.

我发现他那天已经做完连接题了。

I discovered that he's already finished connections that day.

我当时就说：乔纳，那天本来是我的日子。

And I'm like, Jonah, it was my day.

它不让我们玩相同的题目。

It doesn't let us play the same games as each other.

我玩的是数独。

I play the Stoku.

我做填字谜。

I do the crossword.

我玩拼字游戏。

I do the spelling bee.

我玩单词猜猜。

I do the Wordle.

请帮帮我。

Please help.

我的孩子们希望也能用Wordlebot玩Wordle。

My kids want to be able to play Wordle, but with the Wordlebot.

我们非常希望能拥有自己的谜题。

We would love to be able to have our own puzzles.

我喜欢《纽约时报》的游戏。

I love New York Times games.

我想玩属于我自己的游戏。

I want to be able to play my own games.

听众们，我们听到了你们的声音。

Listeners, we heard you.

隆重推出《纽约时报》游戏家庭订阅服务。

Introducing the New York Times Games family subscription.

一个订阅，最多四个独立账号，你的积分和连胜记录都将保留。

One subscription, up to four separate logins, and your existing stats and streaks come with you.

了解更多，请访问 nytimes.com/family。

Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

我想谈谈人工智能带来的创意可能性。

I wanna talk about the creative possibilities that AI presents.

我想从几周前一家大型电影公司迪士尼和最大的人工智能公司OpenAI之间达成的一项重大合作说起。

And I and I wanna begin with a mega deal that was announced just a couple of weeks ago between a major movie studio, Disney, and the biggest AI company, OpenAI.

他们紧密合作，迪士尼明确表示，其众多品牌的未来将

They're wrapping their arms around each other, and it's Disney clearly saying that the future of their brands, which are many, are gonna have

存在于用户生成的人工智能世界中。

to live in the world of

用户生成的人工智能。

user generated artificial intelligence.

我想知道，这在多大程度上意味着像我这样的普通人和我的两个孩子，能够开始使用这套迪士尼角色，艾莎不再只是屏幕上的遥远形象，而是真正能帮我们洗碗的人。

And I wonder how much that means that regular people like me and my two kids get to start playing with this suite of Disney characters, that Elsa is no longer some distant figure on screen, but, you know, someone that we can literally, like, help us do the dishes.

你说得对。

You're right.

这是鲍曼公司的一项里程碑式交易。

This was a watershed deal at Bowman.

它尚未生效。

It hasn't gone into effect yet.

他们在今年早些时候表示，这意味着到四月，人们将能够使用OpenAI的视频创作工具Sora，利用多达200个迪士尼角色制作自己的30秒短片。

They said early this year, which I would take to mean by the April, people are going to be able to use Sora, which is OpenAI's video creation tool to make their own thirty second movies, shorts using all sorts 200 Disney characters.

哇。

Wow.

尤达、灰姑娘、钢铁侠、达斯·维达、艾莎，所有这些经典角色，直到现在都只能由专业艺术家在精心控制的故事中使用，或在AI的黑市中出现。

Yoda, Cinderella, Iron Man, Darth Vader, Elsa, all, you know, all of these classic characters that until now have been only available in carefully controlled stories by professional artists or in the black market of AI.

迪士尼是对其版权控制最严格的公司之一。

Disney is one of the most obviously controlling companies of its copyright.

有很多例子。

There there are all sorts of examples.

比如哪些？

Such as?

著名的例子是，他们告诉一位石匠，不能在孩子的墓碑上雕刻小熊维尼，这引发了对迪士尼的强烈批评。

Well, the famous one was they told a stonemason that he couldn't engrave Winnie the Pooh on a child's grave stone that created quite a a firestorm of criticism of of Disney.

因此，这家如此 aggressively 保护其版权的公司却与 OpenAI 达成合作，这真是开创性的。

So so to have this company that is so aggressively policed its copyright do a deal with OpenAI is groundbreaking.

它从对抗转向了合作。

It's it went from adversarial to cooperative.

但迪士尼如此保护其知识产权，却意识到这是正确的方向，这说明了什么？

But what does it tell you that Disney, being as protective of its intellectual property, realized that this was the right direction?

这说明他们觉得自己别无选择。

It tells you that they feel like they have no choice.

你知道，如果你使用 VIO——谷歌的 AI 视频生成器，你就可以用迪士尼角色创建一段视频。

You know, if you go on VIO, which is Google's AI video generator, you can create a clip using a Disney character.

我昨天就试过了。

I did it yesterday.

我输入了巴斯光年骑自行车。

I typed in Buzz Lightyear riding a bicycle.

几秒钟后，出现了一个巴斯光年骑自行车的片段。

Few seconds later, there's a clip of Buzz Lightyear riding a bicycle.

所以，即使没有达成协议，这种事情也已经在发生了。

So it's not like this isn't happening without a deal in place.

所以他们至少应该为此获得补偿。

So they might as well be compensated for it.

他们至少应该为此获得补偿。

They might as well be compensated for it.

而且，你知道，没有哪家公司比迪士尼更关心如何跟上孩子们的需求，以及未来一代孩子的喜好。

And, you know, no company is more concerned with how to keep up with what kids want, the children of the future.

我们该如何娱乐他们？

How do we entertain them?

他们确实已经承认，年轻人喜欢重新混搭内容，希望以不同的方式参与娱乐体验。

And they really have conceded that young people like to remix things, wanna be involved with their entertainment in a different way.

他们不想只是坐在那里观看好莱坞创造的内容。

They don't just wanna sit there and watch what Hollywood has created.

所以，你知道，他们反正都会去做。

So, you know, they're gonna do it anyway.

我们还不如参与进来，拿到报酬，并尝试用他们所谓的‘安全护栏’来引导这件事。

We might as well be involved and get paid for it and try to do it with some what they call guardrails.

没错。

Right.

他们可以加以控制。

They can control it.

不能有性内容。

No sex.

不能有毒品。

No drugs.

你不能让灰姑娘做那些

You can't have, you know, Cinderella doing doing things that

色情的事情。

Are are pornographic.

我们最好别讨论这个。

We should probably not discuss.

对。

Right.

阿莉莎，你是否从我稍微带点挑衅性的角度来看待迪士尼与OpenAI的交易，即电影制作和短视频创作的民主化，以及普通人能够自由使用这些品牌而不被迪士尼起诉的能力？

Alisa, do you view the Disney OpenAI deal through the prism that I'm somewhat provocatively putting out here, which is the democratization of filmmaking short video production and and the ability of lots of regular people to play with these brands and use them without being sued by Disney?

我的意思是，我一直觉得迪士尼应该开放人们对其知识产权进行二次创作，因为这些内容如此受欢迎。

I mean, I think that I've always felt that Disney should be open to people remixing their intellectual property because it's so beloved.

所以，从某种意义上说，这很好。

So in a way, great.

这看起来很棒。

Like, that seems great.

但另一方面，我真的希望他们能为某些东西站出来表态。

On the other hand, you know, I I really wish that, they had stood up for something a little bit.

我希望他们

I wish that

你说什么？

What do

什么意思？

you mean?

我觉得，作为全球最大的娱乐公司，他们本有机会这样做。

I feel like they had the opportunity as the largest entertainment company in the world, which they are.

他们仍然拥有超过一半的票房收入，本可以说：实际上，我们不希望看到这种对自身创意人员的侵蚀。

They they still own well over half the box office to say, actually, we don't want to see this incursion on our own crafts people's

工作。

work.

对动画师、画师们，

On the animators, on the drawers,

当然。

on Certainly.

如果你的孩子——我相信他们是非常有创造力的人——能制作出三十秒的艾莎短视频，那么那些创造了艾莎的人，他们的工作 suddenly 就不一样了。

So if your children, who I'm sure are wonderful creative people, but if they can make thirty second videos with Elsa, then the people who made Elsa, suddenly their work is you know, it's not the same.