当私募股权盯上你心爱的球队

你好，我是来自威斯康星州麦迪逊的尼拉杰。

Hi, I'm Neeraj from Madison, Wisconsin.

我想和我的家人分享我的《纽约时报》订阅。

I would like to share my subscription for NY Times with my family members.

我应该能分享《纽约时报》烹饪版的食谱、Wirecutter的文章，或者The Athletic的文章。

I should be able to share recipes from NYT Cooking, wire cutter articles, or athletic articles.

我们一家四口。

We are a family of four.

我希望他们也能访问这个订阅。

I would like them to have access to the subscription too.

谢谢。

Thank you.

尼拉杰，我们听到了你的需求。

Niraj, we heard you.

这就是我们推出《纽约时报》家庭订阅的原因。

It's why we created the New York Times Family Subscription.

一份订阅，最多四个独立账号，可以给你生活中的任何人使用。

One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life.

更多详情请访问 nytimes.com/family。

Find out more at nytimes.com/family.

我是《纽约时报》的娜塔莉·基特罗夫。

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroef.

这里是《每日新闻》。

This is The Daily.

上周，洛杉矶湖人队的老板同意以125亿美元出售这支篮球队，这是职业体育球队有史以来的最高价格。

Last week, the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers agreed to sell the basketball team for $12,500,000,000, the highest price ever paid for a professional sports team.

这笔交易震惊了体育界，也让人们重新关注一个日益增长的趋势。

The deal has shocked the sports world and drawn new attention to a growing trend.

大型投资者群体一直在购买全国各地的职业体育球队的股份，并在此过程中改变了这些球队的运营方式。

Big groups of investors have been buying stakes in professional sports teams around the country, and in the process, changing the way those teams are run.

今天，节目《巴勃罗·托雷调查》的主持人托雷将解释这笔巨额交易，并谈论大资金如何改变我们所热爱的体育。

Today, Torre, the host of the show Pablo Torre Finds Out, explains this mega deal and talks about how big money is transforming the sports that we love.

今天是8月21日，星期五。

It's Friday, August 21.

帕布罗。

Pablo.

你好。

Hello.

欢迎。

Welcome.

谢谢你的邀请。

Thank you for having me.

我犹豫过要不要说“加油，老鹰队”

I debated saying go birds

你一进门就说。

immediately upon your arrival.

费城的表达爱意的方式。

Philadelphia love language.

不。

No.

别。

Don't.

已经

It's been

你们这段时间过得不错。

a good run for you guys.

这段时间过得不错。

It's been a good run.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

这个赛季更好。

Better this season.

是的。

Yes.

其实我们请你来就是要聊这个的。

That's actually what we have you here to talk about.

不。

No.

我开玩笑的。

I'm just kidding.

你不是来聊这个的。

Don't you here to talk about that.

这就像《捕食者》里的那个陷阱，不过是给老鹰队球迷准备的。

This is like the Catcher Predator, but for Eagles fans.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

先说明一下我们在这里要做什么。

Just to set the stage for what we are doing here.

请讲。

Please.

你是《Pablo Torre Finds Out》的主持人，这档节目由The Athletic发行，而The Athletic是时代公司旗下的一家体育媒体。我很喜欢这档节目，你在里面会对体育界那些不为人知的角落进行非常深入的调查，特别关注财务交易和这些联盟里的资金流动。

You are the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out, a show that is distributed by The Athletic, a sports publication owned by the Times Company, a show that I love in which you do these very deep investigations into the opaque corners of the sports world with a specific focus on the financial transactions and the money flowing through these leagues.

你这么说听起来好有趣。

You make it sound so fun.

确实有趣。

It is fun.

确实有料。

It is document.

说实话，这节目真的很棒。

Honestly, it is an amazing show.

我们请你来是因为刚刚发生了一笔大交易，洛杉矶湖人队的老板同意以125亿美元的价格出售球队，创下了历史纪录。

And we have you here because this huge deal just happened where the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers agreed to sell the team for $12,500,000,000, a record price.

对。

Mhmm.

这件事之所以引起这么大的轰动，部分原因在于它反映了大型投资者纷纷向职业体育注入资金的一种趋势。

And part of the reason it's causing so much noise is that it is part of this pattern where big investors have been pouring money into professional sports.

我们想搞清楚这到底是怎么回事。

We wanna understand what is going on here.

我们希望帕布洛·托雷帮我们找到答案。

We want Pablo Torre to help us find out.

这里面有很多东西。

There's a lot.

有很多东西。

There's a lot.

体育这个东西，既充满浪漫色彩，又带有经济层面的严谨分析。

And sports is one of those things that is both romantic and also forensic in this economic sense.

对。

Mhmm.

体育的价值从来没有像现在这么高过。

Sports is valuable in a way that has never been more true.

体育的经济价值，体现在这些球队的估值上，像湖人这样的球队到底值多少钱？

And the economics of what sports are as embodied in what are these valuations of these teams, how much is a team like the Lakers worth?

125亿美元，这远远超出了我们以前见过的任何数字。

Well, $12,500,000,000 is far and away the most we've ever seen.

现在体育界正在发生一种变化，人们能感觉到。

There is a dynamic unfolding in sports right now where people sense.

他们能嗅到。

They can smell it.

这里还有更多的钱。

There's more money here.

我们脚下这片土地下面还有更多的钱。

There's more money underneath the ground we are standing on.

我们现在到了一个阶段，这些资产需要管理和策略，包括如何运营和出售，也就是说，你经营这些东西是因为那里有钱可以收割，而不是说我们想尽全力赢得冠军，尽管有时候这两件事看起来好像完全一样。

We're getting to a point where these are assets that demand a management and a strategy in terms of how they are operated and sold, which is to say you're running these things because of the money that's there for you to harvest as opposed to, we wanna win the championship as hard as we can, even though those things might sometimes seem like they are exactly the same.

所以，准备好让你对体育是什么的看法被颠覆吧。

And so prepare, I guess, to have some of your notions of what sports are even anymore to be shattered.

好的。

Okay.

我想问所有这些问题的答案。

And I wanna get to all of those questions.

听起来你说的意思是，湖人队的这次出售实际上是这个更大局面的一个信号事件。

It sounds like what you're saying is really that this Lakers sale is kind of a signal event in this broader situation.

那跟我聊聊这笔交易吧。

So talk to me about the deal.

它是怎么达成的？

How did it come together?

我的感觉是，非常快，而且有点出乎意料。

My sense is very quickly and kind of out of the blue.

这种方式以前从来没人见过。

In a way that no one had seen before.

湖人队的老板叫马克·沃尔特，他买下这支球队还不到一年。

So the owner of the Lakers was a guy named Mark Walter, and Mark Walter had bought the team less than a year ago.

他之前创下了购买洛杉矶道奇队的纪录。

He was previously the record setting purchaser of Los Angeles Dodgers.

对。

Right.

大体育迷，跟咱们一样。

Big sports guy, just like us.

热爱比赛。

Loves the game.

可能多几个亿吧。

Few more billions maybe.

你知道，其实差别不大。

You know, not so different.

所以湖人队，他九个月前才获批，正式加入NBA三十位老板的俱乐部。

And so the Lakers, he was approved nine months ago, formally introduced into the country club of the 30 NBA owners.

是的。

Yep.

一个非常独特、设施豪华的俱乐部，

A very exclusive, fantastically appointed country club for the

创纪录的。

record.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但没有人会因为这个原因，九个月后就退出。

But no one, for that reason, gets out nine months later.

没有人会像翻修房子一样，把这支球队转手。

No one flips this thing, this team, like it's a house.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以光是这种行为本身就让人觉得很新鲜，甚至有点难以接受。

So that behavior alone was new and a bit jarring for people to process.

然后当你了解到事情发生的原因以及交易达成的速度时，根据报道，这笔交易据说是在七十二小时内完成的。

And then when you get to why it happened and how quickly the deal came together, this was a deal, according to the reporting, that took place, allegedly, over seventy two hours.

顺便说一句，就是这么快。

Just so fast, by the way.

简直难以置信。

It's it's unreal.

但七十二小时，对于一个正接受联邦调查的人来说，把球队卖给了由贾里德的兄弟乔什·库什纳和前迪士尼掌门人鲍勃·艾格领导的新所有权集团。

But seventy two hours for a guy who happens to be under federal investigation, but selling that team to a new ownership group headed by Josh Kushner, brother of Jared, and Bob Iger, the former head of Disney.

好的。

Okay.

跟我说说马克·沃尔特面临的联邦调查吧，因为这似乎是这件事的一个重要部分，也可能一开始就是出售球队的动机之一。

Talk to me about the federal investigation that Mark Walter is under because that seems to be a big part of this and potentially part of the motivation for the sale in the first place.

马克·沃尔特在关注NBA和职业体育的人眼中，一直是个神秘人物。

So Mark Walter has always been, to people who follow the NBA and professional sports, mysterious.

好的。

Okay.

他经营一家叫Guggenheim Partners的公司，金融媒体和体育媒体里，几乎没人真正搞清楚他们是怎么赚到这么多钱的。

He runs a company called Guggenheim Partners, and nobody really had a clear sense in the financial press or the sports media of how they make all their money.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

所以当金融媒体报道说，因为一个举报人，联邦调查介入，指控马克·沃尔特跟他自己的保险公司搞自我交易，从那些公司借钱来资助他其他的生意，这就像是马克·沃尔特在这边，那边也是马克·沃尔特。

And so when there is the news reported in the financial press that there is a federal investigation as a result of a whistleblower about alleged self dealing that Mark Walter was doing with his insurance companies, whom he was borrowing from to fund his other business enterprises, It's Mark Walter over here and also Mark Walter over there.

根据最近公开的文件，这些涉嫌未披露的交易涉及的金额总计大约200亿美元。

And so according to the last available filings, the total tonnage of money that these alleged undisclosed transactions touches is about $20,000,000,000.

需要说明的是，这项调查还在进行中。

And we should say the investigation is ongoing.

还没有结论。

It hasn't been concluded.

这件事是在今年7月曝光的，对吧，然后就炸开了锅。

This becomes public in July, right, of this year, and it kinda blows up.

是的。

Yes.

我们现在知道，他一直在想办法怎么填补那200亿美元，因为据报道，由于司法部和证交会的持续调查，有200亿美元面临风险。

And we now know that he's been trying to figure out how can I make up $20,000,000,000 when $20,000,000,000 reportedly is at stake because of these ongoing DOJ and SEC investigations?

所以他正在试探出售他的体育特许经营权的市场反应。

And so what he's doing is testing the waters for the sale of his sports franchises.

所以你基本上是在描述一个处境非常艰难的人，我想他感到有压力，想要让这些问题消失，想办法筹钱还清这些贷款。

So you're basically describing someone who has his back very much to the wall, and I imagine feels some pressure to kind of try to make these problems go away, to try to raise money to pay off these loans.

对他来说，这可能才是真正促使他这么快卖掉湖人队、找到这些买家的原因。

And that may be, for him, the real motivator for selling the Lakers, turning it around this fast, finding these buyers.

对。

Yeah.

而且因为体育行业现在的情况是，这些球队的估值一年比一年高。

And because sports is in a place where the valuations of these teams, they are just going up year after year after year.

如果你在九个月内把球队转手给感兴趣的买家，就能多赚25亿美元，这让我觉得，这确实是一种可以变现的资产，因为超级富豪那边的需求似乎是无穷无尽的，这是我小时候没见过的。

The idea that you could perhaps make an extra $2,500,000,000 after nine months if you just flip the team to interested buyers, and it indicates something that I didn't grow up seeing, which is that this is in fact an asset that can be liquidated because the demand on the buy side among fantastically wealthy people seemingly is endless.

说实话，想想这事儿，确实挺离谱的。

I mean, it's on face kind of bananas when you think about it.

你描述的是一个压力山大的人。

What you've described is a guy who is under a ton of pressure.

你可能会觉得他没什么谈判筹码，但他却反手一转。

You'd think he wouldn't have much leverage, and yet he turns around.

而且他持有这支球队没多久，就赚了25亿美元，这对一次紧急甩卖来说，可真不错。

And after owning this team for not very long, makes a $2,500,000,000 profit on it, which is not bad for a fire sale.

是的。

Yes.

那跟我说说这些买家吧，这次是库什纳和艾格。

And so talk to me about what these buyers, Kushner and Iger in this case.

库什纳是Thrive Capital的首席执行官，这家风投公司以投资科技领域而闻名。

Kushner is the CEO of Thrive Capital, this venture capital firm known for investing in tech.

鲍勃·艾格，当然，就是迪士尼那位著名的前CEO。

Bob Iger is, of course, the famous former CEO of Disney.

为什么他们会觉得这是这么值钱的资产呢？

Why do they see this as such a rich asset?

为什么像他们这样的投资者会这样看待职业体育？

Why do investors like them see professional sports in this way?

我觉得首先他们看到的是稀缺性。

I think they see scarcity, first and foremost.

目前NBA只有30支球队。

There are only 30 NBA teams for now.

未来可能会有扩军，但能买的这种资产就这么多。

There might be expansion coming, but there are only so many of these assets you can buy.

所以从历史上看，这就像拥有一件你能想象到的最酷的艺术品，而且你还能邀请朋友来看你坐在场边看电视上播放的你的艺术品。

And so historically, that's been akin to owning, like, the coolest piece of fine art imaginable, in which you can actually invite your friends to watch you watch your piece of art on TV as you sit courtside.

拥有一支NBA球队真的很酷。

It's really cool to own an NBA team.

对。

Yep.

但就目前的价值而言，有趣的是，乔什·库什纳创立了Thrive Capital的一个分支，叫做Thrive Eternal。

But the value of it in the present tense, it's really interesting that Josh Kushner has started an offshoot of Thrive Capital called Thrive Eternal.

Thrive Eternal的理念是，随着人工智能吞噬美国经济中的其他一切，它无法触及的是体育。

And Thrive Eternal is premised on this thesis that as AI, artificial intelligence, eats everything else in the American economy, what it cannot touch is sports.

体育是最具现场感、最自发、最人性化、最非合成化的商品，人们愿意为此付出大量金钱。

The most live, spontaneous, human, antisynthetic good that people will pay lots and lots of money for.

你懂吗？

You know?

这里有人的风险和人的利害关系。

There are human risks and human stakes.

所以，随着人工智能蓬勃发展并接管一切，

And so as artificial intelligence booms and takes over everything

对。

Mhmm.

它无法颠覆的是什么？

What can it not disrupt?

Thrive Eternal 的投资理念就是体育。

The investing thesis here from Thrive Eternal is sports.

对。

Right.

随着 AI 渗透到各个领域，无处不在，面对面的互动就变得更加珍贵。

As AI goes into everything, everywhere, all at once, the the idea of in person interaction just becomes that much more valuable.

是的。

Yes.

而且就是

And just

可以说，你得承认，鲍勃·艾格比任何人都更懂体育的价值。

to say, you have to assume that Bob Iger, more than anyone, understands the value of sports.

他通过收购漫威，让迪士尼成为巨头。

He made Disney a juggernaut in part by buying up Marvel.

他深知知识产权的价值。

He understands the value of IP.

对。

Yes.

而且没有什么比体育更有IP价值了。

And nothing has IP like sports.

源源不断的选秀，新秀们自带故事线，根本不需要编剧。

Endless waves, new draft classes full of characters who are fitting into storylines that you don't even need to script.

说实话，这就是最好的真人秀。

The best reality TV, honestly.

真的，就是男人的肥皂剧。

Genuinely, soap operas for men.

是的。

Yep.

顺便说，女人也看。

And women, by the way.

至少男人是毫不掩饰地看。

For men, unapologetic at least.

是的。

Yes.

终于，我们可以直接说，对。

Finally, we can just Yeah.

可以乱来。

Be messy.

我们可以直接对这些年轻球员的动向评头论足，不用顾忌那么多。

We can just be messy about what these young men are up to.

对。

Yep.

那跟我聊聊这背后的钱吧。

And so talk to me about the money there.

体育看起来高深复杂，但其实它的商业模式很简单。

Sports seems arcane and complicated, but, really, the business of it is quite simple.

福克斯体育欢迎您收看接下来的国家橄榄球联盟赛事。

Fox Sports welcomes you to the following presentation of the National Football League.

这些估值之所以存在，主要是因为媒体版权协议。

The reason that there are these valuations ostensibly are because of media rights deals.

欢迎大家收看ABC电视台的NBA周六黄金时段节目。

Welcome everyone to NBA Saturday primetime on ABC.

欢迎收看NBC电视台的周日夜棒球比赛，本节目由

Welcome to Sunday night baseball on NBC presented by

在传统电视网络的世界里，体育的重要性无与伦比。

And something to know about sports in the world of linear network television is that nothing is more important.

电视网络的命脉就是现场直播，而且你不能快进。

It's like the beating heart of network TV is a live event that you also can't fast forward.

你看体育直播，就意味着你必须看直播中的广告。

Like, you watch sports live, which means that you must watch the commercials live.

电视这种媒介需要观众准时收看，对。

And so a medium like television that needs people to tune in Yep.

没有什么能像体育那样吸引观众，每年的收视率就是最好的证明。

Nothing provides what sports provides as evidenced by the ratings every year.

你会看到媒体公司争抢体育队伍和体育联盟的转播权。

You're seeing media companies fight for the rights to sports teams, sports leagues.

NFL宣布与所有媒体合作伙伴达成新的十一年媒体分销协议。

NFL announcing new eleven year media distribution deals with all of us media partners.

消息人士告诉我，这份集体协议的总价值超过一千亿美元，在……

Sources tell me that this collective deal is worth more than $100,000,000,000 over the

所以网络愿意为体育付出比其他任何内容都高的价格，而且差距不是一点点。

And so networks are willing to pay more for sports than they are for anything else, and it's not even close.

欢迎收看Apple TV呈现的周五棒球之夜。

Welcome to Friday Night Baseball on Apple TV presenting

而与此同时，流媒体服务、硅谷这些公司，它们也想成为网络平台。

And now simultaneously, because streaming services, Silicon Valley, they're also trying to be networks.

在Prime Video上观看国家橄榄球联盟的比赛。

Of the National Football League on Prime Video.

它们现在也在同一个池子里抢食，把媒体转播权的价格推高，以至于NBA在最近的谈判中把转播权费用翻了三倍。

They are now feeding at the same trough, bidding up the value of these media rights deal to the point where the NBA just tripled its media rights deal in the last negotiations.

这对这些老板和所有潜在的老板来说很重要，因为是他们和这些网络谈的合同。

And the reason that matters to these owners and all the potential owners out there is that they are the ones cutting the deals with these networks.

是他们看到了这些巨额授权交易带来的回报。

They are the ones who see the return on that incredibly rich set of licensing deals.

对。

Yes.

我得说清楚，这个所谓的“乡村俱乐部”也包括那些从自己拥有的东西中获利的人，也就是这些球队，以及联盟达成的协议，让我们美国人能在电视、Netflix或者你喜欢的任何流媒体平台上观看比赛。

The country club, I should be clear about this, is also the people who are profiting off of the things that they own, which are these teams and the deals that a league strikes so that we, Americans, can watch them on television or Netflix or whatever your streamer of choice might be.

我的问题是，对球队价值飙升的这种理解，如何改变球队所有权的问题？

My question is, how does that understanding of the surging value of these teams change the question of team ownership?

我不知道大家是否意识到十亿美元到底有多少钱，更不用说一百二十五亿美元了。

I don't know if people realize how much money a billion dollars is, let alone $12,500,000,000.

但能作为个人买得起这个价位的，名单非常非常短。

But the idea of who can afford that as an individual is a vanishingly small list.

实际上，如果你看看这个星球上有多少人能随便花一百二十五亿美元买任何东西，那你说的其实是机构投资者，也就是私募股权、对冲基金、风险投资。

And in fact, if you look at the number of people who exist on this planet who can just casually pay $12,500,000,000 for anything, what you're really talking about is institutional investors, meaning private equity, hedge funds, venture capital.

这些实体不是一个人，而是一群以盈利为目的运作的人。

These entities that are not one person, but an array of human beings who operate under profit motive.

他们买得起这些东西，但个人买不起。

They can afford this stuff, but individuals can't.

说说现在这种情况到底有多普遍吧。

Just talk about how common this actually is at this point.

我感觉这种事情越来越多，我们好像还处在起步阶段，刚刚开始。

My sense is this has been happening more and more and that we are kind of at the beginning of it, at the bleeding edge.

对。

Yes.

有一点很重要，比如私募股权，在2019年之前是不被允许持有美国主要职业体育球队股份的。

It's really important to note that private equity, for instance, was not allowed to own a stake in a pro sports team in America among the major sports until 2019.

美国职业棒球大联盟，K。

Major League Baseball K.

所以真的是最近才放开的。

So really recently opened the seal.

他们在美国职业棒球大联盟中规定，允许私募股权公司购买某个大联盟棒球队的股份。

They created in Major League Baseball the ability, by rule, for private equity firms to buy shares of a given Major League ball club.

任何一家私募股权公司最多只能持有球队15%的股份，而所有感兴趣的私募机构投资者加起来最多只能持有30%。

They can take from any individual PE firm no more than 15% as an ownership stake in your team and 30% in total across any PE institutional investors that might be interested.

明白了。

Got it.

主权财富基金，另一个可能的买家，直到2022年NBA解禁之前，是不允许购买美国主要职业体育球队的。

Sovereign Wealth Funds, the other possible purchaser, they weren't allowed to buy teams among the major American pro sports until 2022 when the NBA lifted the seal on that.

在NBA中，主权财富基金的持股上限是20%。

For the sovereign wealth funds in the NBA, it's a 20% cap.

目前，这些机构投资者的持股比例是有限制的。

You're capping for now how much these institutional investors can own.

但与此同时，你真正想知道的是，他们是否在与其他股东分享他们的最佳实践？

But in the meantime, what you're really wondering is, are they sharing their best practices with the rest of the ownership group?

你邀请贝恩资本是因为你喜欢他们的钱，还是因为你可能也想学习他们如何优化业务？

Do you invite Bain Capital in because you like their money, or do you invite them in because you might also wanna learn how they optimize businesses?

所以，最基本的看法就是，你看。

And so just the very basic notion of look.

我从小就是洋基队的球迷。

Grew up a Yankee fan.

现在依然是。

I remain as much.

我们会原谅你的。

We'll forgive you.

27个冠军戒指，我每晚哭着入睡时都在念叨这个。

27 rings is what I cry myself to sleep saying.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

考虑到我们赢得世界大赛已经是很久以前的事了。

Given how long it's been since we won a world series.

但我是在乔治·斯坦布伦纳的时代长大的，他专横又疯狂。

But I grew up in the era of George Steinbrenner, who was tyrannical and an insane person.

洋基队那位著名的老板。

Famous owner of the Yankees.

但他最重要的是，他极度渴望胜利。

But he was, more than anything, desperate to win.

所以问题来了：你的球队是不是被一个有钱又疯狂的超级粉丝拥有，他在很多方面有问题，但本质上就像你这样的球迷。

And so the question of, is your team owned by an unhinged wealthy super fan who is problematic in lots of ways, but really individually is like you, the fan.

对。

Mhmm.

我们正在进入体育的一个阶段，那种人已经买不起在出售的球队了。

We're entering a phase of sports where that person can't afford the teams that are for sale anymore.

对。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

洋基队最近接受了阿波罗全球管理公司——一家私募股权公司的投资。

The Yankees just recently took investment from Apollo Global Management, a private equity firm.

一家巨头。

A giant.

这家巨头，我敢说，会教洋基队和乔治·斯坦布伦纳的继承人们如何优化运营，如何不再像我所迷恋的那个邪恶帝国，而是更像一个挥霍者，他们在这里是因为需要证明绿色箭头再次上升。

A giant that is, I dare say, going to teach the Yankees and the heirs to George Steinbrenner how to optimize and how to not act like the evil empire that I fell in love with, but instead something resembling a spendthrift that's here because they need to show that the green arrow is going up again.

那么谁会买下这些球队呢？

And so who buys these teams?

机构投资者，他们把这些球队视为可以金融化的资产，因为它们能赚钱。

Institutional investors that see them as an asset to be financialized because it can make them money.

但你是在欢迎这种金钱的逻辑来重新调整你的运动运作方式。

But you are welcoming the physics of this kind of money to reorient how your sport works.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

《纽约时报》应用解锁了？

The New York Times app unlocked?

大家都知道《纽约时报》是收费的。

Everyone knows The Times is behind a paywall.

只有订阅用户才能看到所有的报道。

Only subscribers have access to all the reporting.

但如果你能免费探索《纽约时报》一个月，而且不用输入信用卡信息呢？

But what if you could explore the times for a month for free without putting in a credit card?

现在你可以了。

Now you can.

当你第一次下载《纽约时报》应用时，你在应用里的第一个月是免费的。

When you download the New York Times app for the first time, your first month in the app is free.

一个月的时间，你可以越过付费墙，看看《纽约时报》订阅用户每天都能看到什么。

A month to go behind the paywall to see what Times subscribers get every single day.

所有的调查报道、评论、食谱，以及那些深入报道、基于事实的新闻。

All the investigations, the reviews, the recipes, the deeply reported fact based journalism.

如果你还没有订阅《纽约时报》，今天就下载《纽约时报》应用，免费获取三十天的访问权限。

If you don't already subscribe to the New York Times, download the Times app today and get free access for thirty days.

好的。

Okay.

现在我想谈谈我认为对球迷来说最重要的事情，那就是这些新的所有权结构如何改变我们所热爱的运动、我们所热爱的比赛以及我们所追随的联赛。

I wanna now turn to the thing that I think matters most to the fans, which is how do these new ownership structures change the sports that we love, the games that we love, the leagues that we follow.

帕布罗，你怎么看待你刚才描述的所有这些可能带来的影响？

Pablo, how are you thinking about the potential ramifications of everything you've described?

我在想，当你追求优化的时候，会带来哪些意想不到的后果。

I'm thinking about what the unintended consequences are when you optimize.

好的。

Okay.

也就是说，如果你是一个注重数据的组织，我们熟悉《点球成金》里的理念，就是数学可能帮你更有效地花钱。

Meaning, if you're a quantitatively minded organization and we're familiar with Moneyball, the idea that maybe math can help you spend your money more efficiently.

对。

Yeah.

如果你把这种思路扩展到组织的方方面面呢？

What if you extended that to every aspect of your organization?

也就是说，我们在哪里转播比赛，还有票价怎么定。

Meaning, where we broadcast our games, meaning ticket pricing.

我的意思是，动态定价这个概念，是私募股权非常喜欢的一种工具。

I mean, the notion of dynamic pricing, which is a tool that is beloved by private equity.

因为说白了，就是根据人们有多迫切来定价。

Because in so many words, it means we price people according to their desperation.

好的。

Okay.

为了那些不买体育票的人解释一下什么是动态定价，就是你在网上搜航班，第二天同一个航班就涨价了。

And just to say what dynamic pricing is for people who don't buy sports tickets, it's when you go online, you search for a flight, and the next day, that same flight is more expensive.

这就是动态定价。

That is dynamic pricing.

这种情况也会发生在你去看NBA总决赛的尼克斯队比赛时，你的票要6000美元，而且你坐在最后一排。

That also happens when you say go to buy a Knicks tickets in the NBA finals, and your ticket costs $6,000 and you're in the very last row.

是的。

Yes.

我们真正在讨论的是，如何从同一批客户身上榨取更多价值，这些客户原本习惯了粉丝定价，现在却被以越来越让人不舒服的方式售卖。

I mean, what we're really talking about is how do you extract more from the same customer base that was used to fandom being priced one way and now being sold to them in ways that are increasingly uncomfortable?

听起来你大致是在说，联盟正在从这些机构公司引进一种商业所有权文化。

It sounds like what you're saying broadly here is that the way you're thinking about this is the league's importing a kind of culture of business ownership from these institutional firms.

对吧？

Right?

一种像他们可能考虑拥有资产那样来经营这项业务的理解方式。

A kind of understanding of how to run this business like they might think of, you know, owning an asset.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得优化是个委婉的说法。

And I think optimization is sort of the euphemism.

比如，我们怎么让事情更高效？

Like, how can we make things more efficient?

怎么确保我们花的每一分钱都物有所值？

How can we make sure that we are getting the most bang for our buck?

球迷们可能会支持，是的，我们想成为最聪明、最量化先进的球队。

The fans might be in favor of, yes, we wanna be the smartest and most quantitatively advanced.

也许我们想拥有最多的钱。

And maybe we we wanna have the most money.

也许事实上，我们希望我们的所有权集团有最多的钱可以花，是的。

And maybe, in fact, we want our ownership group to have the most money to spend Yeah.

花在我们的球队上。

On our team.

当然，问题在于当你意识到利润和增长是可以独立于赢得冠军而存在的目标时。

The problem, of course, is when you realize that profit and growth are goals that can exist irrespective of whether you win the championship.

所以我们提到2019年是美国职业棒球大联盟首次向私募股权敞开大门，而波士顿红袜队是早期采用者之一。

So we mentioned that 2019 is when Major League Baseball opens the doors to private equity in the first place, and the Boston Red Sox are an early adopter.

我的部分职责是确保持续获得资本，尽可能降低资本成本，巩固资产负债表，以便我们能够去……

Part of my role is to make sure that we continue to maintain access to capital, keep our cost of capital as low as it can be, fortify the balance sheet so that we can go and

对。

Right.

然后呢，

And and

你看。

see that.

当他们从私募股权那里拿钱时，也许不是巧合，他们开始做一些看起来节省成本但球迷普遍不买账的事情。

When they take money from private equity, they perhaps not coincidentally begin to do things that seem cost effective but broadly unpopular among fans.

对。

Mhmm.

亚历克斯·布雷格曼作为红袜队成员，在芬威球场的第一次击球，第一球和第二球。

First and second for Alex Bregman in his first Fenway at bat as a member of the Red Sox.

比如波士顿红袜队，上个赛季有一位老将叫亚历克斯·布雷格曼，签的是短期合同，而且表现不错。

The Boston Red Sox, for instance, last season had a veteran player named Alex Bregman who was on a short term deal, and it was going well.

右外野高飞球。

High fly ball right field.

他这一下打得很猛，球飞出去了。

He really tore into this one, and she's gone.

亚历克斯·布雷格曼又在芬威球场立功了。

And Alex Bregman delivers at Fenway again.

那个赛季他入选了全明星。

He was an all star that season.

他在球迷中非常受欢迎。

He was wildly popular among the fans.

他们几乎把他当成了波士顿红袜队的非官方队长。

They kind of anointed this guy, the unofficial captain of the Boston Red Sox.

对吧？

Right?

年轻球员把他当作更衣室里的教练，而他也想留下来。

Younger players regarded him as a coach in the clubhouse, and he wanted to stay.

他想要一份长期合同，还想要一个不可交易条款，这样他就可以否决被交易到任何其他球队。

He wanted a long term contract, and he wanted a no trade clause so that he could veto a trade to any other team.

从历史上看，这描绘了一种忠诚的形象。

And historically, this is a portrait of loyalty.

但红袜队并不想这么做。

But the Red Sox did not wanna do it.

小熊队做出了他们能做出的最大签约之一。

The Cubs made one of the biggest signings they could make.

亚历克斯·布雷格曼签下了一份五年合同。

Alex Bregman for a five year deal

在他们那种私募股权式的思维里，这一切都被视为财务和精算上的风险。

To their private equity of fied mindset, this all read as a financial and actuarial risk.

他31岁，在职业体育里相当于中年，而红袜队最终以一群不太知名的球员开始了赛季，没有亚历克斯·布雷格曼。

He was 31 years old, the equivalent of middle age in professional sports, and the Red Sox instead started the season with a bunch of lesser known players and with no Alex Bregman.

对。

Right.

你们对亚历克斯·布雷格曼有什么看法？

Do you guys have thoughts on Alex Bregman?

那是

It was

刚刚宣布的

just announced

就是说，你现在的队伍比去年还差。

that You're he's a worse team than you were last year.

赶紧解决吧。

Fix it.

你们太差劲了。

You suck.

再加上现代棒球俱乐部被激励去做的一切，还有那些票价差异，这已经在红袜队球迷中引发了一场反抗。

And that along with everything else that a modern ball club is incentivized to do, all of the pricing differences, it has created something of a revolt among Red Sox fans.

没待多久就走了。

Didn't stick around.

你吹嘘省下的那些钱。

All this money you're bragging about saving.

票价降了吗？

Are ticket prices going down?

我们在竞选广告里也看到了这一点。

And we've seen it, I mean, in campaign ads.

私募股权毁了我们最爱的棒球队，把他们拆得七零八落。

Private equity has destroyed our favorite baseball team, stripping them for parts.

没错。

Yep.

格雷厄姆·普拉特纳在一个非常著名的竞选广告里就提到了这个。

Graham Plattner featured this in one very famous campaign ad.

就像，他们在毁掉我们的红袜队。

Like, they're ruining our Red Sox.

我是格雷厄姆·普拉特纳，我批准这条信息，因为我想念穆基·贝茨。

I'm Graham Plattner, and I approve this message because I miss Mookie Betts.

而且我觉得现在人们普遍有一种民粹情绪，就是觉得现在的情况并不比以前好。

And there is this populist sensation that I think people are currently feeling that we don't think this is better than it was before.

对。

Mhmm.

事实上，我们认为情况更糟，而且感觉自己的声音越来越不被听到。

In fact, we think it's worse, and we feel like we're being heard less.

好的。

Okay.

我完全理解球迷们对自己球队球员的那种情感联系。

I completely understand that fans have this emotional connection to the players on their team.

但就你提到的这种愤怒情绪，我想稍微反驳一下，红袜队的情况其实并没有那么糟糕。

But just to push for a second on the outrage that you're describing, things didn't actually turn out so badly for the Red Sox.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，他们本赛季没有签下亚历克斯·弗雷格曼。

I mean, they didn't sign Alex Fregman for this season.

他们赌了一把，用了一批更便宜、更年轻的球员，但今年红袜队实际上表现相当不错。

They took a gamble on this roster of cheaper, younger players, but they're actually doing pretty well this year, the Red Sox.

是的。

And Yeah.

也许他们现在有了财务上的灵活性，未来几年可以引进更多球员。

Maybe they now have the financial flexibility to add more players in the years to come.

即使从纯粹的棒球迷角度来看，在某些方面，这可能是个好结果。

Even from a pure baseball fan's perspective, in some ways, that might be a good outcome.

对吧？

Right?

你说得对，红袜队现在确实状态火热。

It is a fair point to say that the Red Sox are on a heater right now.

他们从我所认识的红袜球迷口中说的最差球队，一下子变成了争夺外卡席位的有力竞争者。

They went from the worst team that anybody who I know, who's a Red Sox fan, has has said that they've ever seen to right there in the hunt for a wild card spot.

是的。

Yeah.

但我觉得问题是，到了季后赛，当他们面对马克·沃尔特斯的道奇队时，情况会怎样。

I think the question though is whether when it comes to the postseason, when they're gonna face Mark Walters' Dodgers

对。

Right.