万亿美元安全、第二层聊天等——每日Gwei补给第857期——以太坊更新

大家好，欢迎来到《Delivery Refuel》的又一期节目，这里为您速递以太坊生态系统的最新动态。

Everyone, and welcome to another episode of Delivery Refuel, where you cut the latest news in the Ethereum ecosystem.

我是你们的主持人，今天是2月10日。

I'm your host, and this is signed as it's February 10.

好了，各位。

Alright, everyone.

我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

很抱歉昨天没有更新一期节目。

So apologies for not doing an episode yesterday.

我昨天实在没时间做，所以今天补上。

I just ran out of time to do one yesterday, so I'm doing one today.

不过上周你们已经得到了两期额外的节目，也就是上周有两期加更。

But also you guys got two bonus I mean, bonus episode last week for two episodes last week.

我觉得我做得还不错。

So I think I'm doing okay.

我知道你们中有些人可能想，哦，来了。

And I know some of you probably thought, oh, there we go.

周一没有更新，他已经开始偏离轨道了。

With no episode on Monday, he's already kind of gone off track.

这周不会更新了。

We're not gonna have an episode this week.

但不，还是有更新的，我想我在本小时开头提到过，我会尽量每周一更新，但如果周一没更新，那应该会在周二、周三、周四、周五，甚至有时在周末更新。

But no, there is an episode, and I think I mentioned this when I when I kind of talked about this at the start of the hour where I said that like, I'll aim from every Monday, but if it doesn't happen on the Monday, it should happen on, you know, the Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday or even the weekend sometimes.

对吧？

Right?

所以这完全取决于我这边的时间安排。

So it just depends on kind of timing for me here.

过去这一周真是精彩纷呈。

But what an interesting week over the last week.

我的意思是，我不会花太多时间讨论自从Vitalik发推后冒出来的L2争论，因为上周我已经做了一整期关于这个的节目，我猜你们大多数人应该已经看过了，但确实有一些新的讨论和观点我想顺便聊聊。

I mean, I'm not gonna spend too much time on the kind of like l two debate that has popped up since Vitalik's tweet because I did a whole episode on that, which I'm I assume most of you guys have already watched, last week, but there has been some kind of discussions around that, some new discussions that I did wanna cover and some takes that I did wanna cover.

但是，是的。

But, yeah.

我的意思是，这可能会占据本集的大量内容，因为这是一个非常重要的话题，出于各种不同的原因。

I mean, it may take up like a lot of this episode as well because it is a big topic of discussion, you know, for various different reasons.

我相信你们一直都在关注这些讨论。

I'm sure you guys have been following along with the discussions.

当然，有很多恐慌情绪，很多人过度解读了一些根本不存在的东西，这对我来说一点也不奇怪，但确实令人沮丧，因为这种事总会发生，只要有人说了什么，人们就会根据自己的固有偏见、经济利益等因素，以各种方式去理解。

A lot of fud, of course, a lot of people reading into things, that just aren't there, which just I mean, it's not weird or surprising to me at all, but it is frustrating that like this just is gonna be a I mean, it's just always gonna be a thing, right, where, you know, someone says something and then people take it in in various different ways, depending on, you know, their own inherent biases, depending on monetary incentives and all that.

这正是我们又爱又恨的加密货币。

And that's what we kind of like love and hate about crypto.

我们喜欢它将如此多的不同领域融合在一起，比如经济学、政治学、心理学、技术等等。

Like we love the fact that it brings together so many different things like economics, politics, psychology, technology, like all these sorts of things.

它把这些领域汇聚成一个沸腾的大杂烩。

Brings these fields together into one kind of like boiling pot if you will of different fields.

但另一方面，很多人观点和看法完全被金钱所驱动。

But then on the other hand, have the fact that a lot of people's opinions and a lot of, I guess people's takes on things are completely driven by, by money.

对吧？

Right?

而在另一端，则是受意识形态驱动。

And then then there's the other end of the spectrum where it's driven by ideology.

所以你试图保持中立，或者看看谁站在中间，然后听听他们的观点。

So you you kind of try to sit in the middle or like you try to see what, you know, who sits in the middle and kinda listen to them.

我试图保持中立，但我知道自己有时做得并不好，尤其是因为我可以说自己更偏向意识形态那一边。

I try to sit in the middle, but I know I don't do a very good job of it sometimes, especially because I would say I sit much more on the ideological side of things.

所以这有时会影响我的判断。

So I let that cloud my judgment sometimes.

我觉得我现在已经不太站在以金钱为导向的那一端了。

I would say that I don't sit on the money kind of side of the spectrum that much these days.

也许我过去是，但如今金钱已经不再影响我的观点了，就像持币者的心态那样。

Maybe I used to, but it's not really something that informs my views these days, like the bags kind of view.

这根本不是我看待事物的方式。

That's just not how I look at things.

我绝对是更偏向意识形态那一边的人，但我也努力在做事时保持务实。

I am definitely someone who is is way more on the ideology side, but then I also try to be practical about things as well.

另一件人们接下来一段时间可能会一直讨论的事情是，我们在意识形态上花的时间太多，而在实际层面花的时间太少。

That's another thing that I guess people have are gonna be going on about for a little while with Ethereum is that we spend too much time in ideology land and not enough time in practical land.

这种看法是合理的。

And that's a fair kind of take.

但我认为这是因为我们很多人最初加入以太坊的原因——我不是说在加密货币领域，而是说在以太坊，因为很多加密货币根本不是这样的。

But I think that's just because of the fact that the reason why a lot of us are in Ethereum to begin with, and not I don't say like in crypto, I say in Ethereum because a lot of crypto is nothing like this.

是因为意识形态，对吧？

It's the ideology, right?

是对去中心化货币的信念。

It's the belief in self sovereign money.

是对去中心化和抗审查性的信念，而且这不是一种浅尝辄止的信念，而是根深蒂固的信仰，对吧？

It's the belief in decentralization and sensitive resistance and not just a small belief, like a hardcore belief, right?

所以当你把这种信念作为你进入这个行业的根本原因时，自然就会基于它形成自己的观点。

So when you have that as your kind of foundation for why you're in this industry, then naturally you're going to have opinions based on that.

这本身并没有什么错。

And there's nothing wrong with that.

但我也理解另一方的观点，他们会说：好吧，我们拥有了所有这些特性，比如去中心化、抗审查等等。

But then I understand the other side where it's like, okay, well we have all, you know, these things, we have all these, you know, decentralization, censorship resistance, so on and so forth.

那么，我们该如何真正地将这些理念落实到产品中呢？

Like how do we actually instantiate that in a product?

我们该如何真正地将其打造成产品，让人们能够使用它，并从中获得价值呢？

Like how do we actually make a product out of it to so that people can get use out of it so that people can get value out of it?

而且我认为，如果你看看以太坊实际提供的产品，你知道，这些产品范围很广，但最大的产品确实是作为资产的ETH。

And I think that if you look at the the products that Ethereum actually offers, you know, there's a wide set of these, but the biggest product really is ETH as an asset.

就像我会把作为资产的ETH视为以太坊的一个产品。

Like I would consider ETH as an asset to be a product of Ethereum.

对吧？

Right?

对我来说，这就是最大的产品，因为它是自主的、去中心化的、具有抗审查性的货币和价值储存手段，比我们拥有的任何其他东西都要好。

And that to me is the biggest product because it is self sovereign, decentralized, sensitive resistance, money and a store of value that's, is better than anything else that we have.

我认为它比比特币更好。

I think it's better than Bitcoin.

你们知道，我对这个观点毫不掩饰。

You guys know I'm not shy about that opinion.

从这个角度来看，我认为它比任何其他类型的价值资产都要好，尤其是在故事价值方面。

And I think it's better than any other kind of asset in existence from from that point of view in terms of like story value assets.

当然，人们会说，如果价格像这样波动，它怎么可能是出色的价值故事呢？

And yeah, people will say, well, how can it be a great story value if like the price does what it does?

我们都清楚价格会怎么波动。

You know, we all know what the price does.

但很多人不明白的是，一个好的价值故事并不一定需要价格一直上涨。

But then I think what a lot of people don't understand is that like a good story value doesn't necessarily have to go up in price all the time.

即使黄金在十到十五年里毫无表现，人们依然称它为价值储藏手段，对吧？

And people like still call gold a store of value even though it did nothing for like ten, fifteen years, right?

在很长一段时间里，它的表现可能都很平淡。

And they're just long periods of time where it doesn't do much.

所以我认为，从这个角度来看，你能够理解它作为一种良好价值储存手段的合理性，同时也意识到它并不会一直持续上涨。

So I think that when you look at it from that lens, you kind of can reason about it being a good store of value while also realizing that yes, it's not gonna just constantly go up all the time.

任何资产只涨不跌，我有个词来形容，对吧？

Like any asset just goes up only, I have a word for that, right?

那叫庞氏骗局，最终会崩溃。

It's called a Ponzi and eventually it collapses.

所以这种波动始终都会存在。

So there's always gonna be ebbs and flows to this.

但是的，我理解这里的两种观点，接下来我会结合过去一周左右所有关于二层网络的讨论，进一步谈谈这个话题。

But yeah, so I understand both sides of of the coin here and I will talk a bit more about that in the context of all the l two discussions that have been had over the last, kind of week or so.

在进入这个话题之前，我想先介绍一下一些协议更新。

Before I jump into that, I did wanna cover some protocol updates.

过去一周，核心协议方面并没有太多进展。

So there hasn't been that much movement over the last week on the core protocol side of things.

因为Glamsterdam的相关工作仍在持续推进中。

As things are still moving along for for Glamsterdam.

当然，这方面正在推进中。

Of course, that's that's being worked on.

通常的流程正在遵循，但很多工作也转向了Hagotah，因为Hagotah是Glamsterdam之后的下一个升级，我们目前正处在选择主要功能的阶段。

You know, the usual process is being followed there, but a lot of things have moved towards Hagotah as well because Hagotah is the upgrade that's coming after Glamsterdam and we are currently in the process of choosing headliners.

所以，尼克·索说，由于截止日期昨天已经过去，我们总共提出了六个针对Glamsterdam之后以太坊升级——即Hecotar——的主要功能。

So and Nick So said, yeah, with the deadline having passed yesterday, we have six total major features proposed for the Ethereum upgrade glimpse after Glamsterdam, which is Hecotar.

下一步是社区和核心开发者将进行讨论，并力争选出至多一个共识层功能和一个执行层功能。

The next step is that the community and core devs will discuss and aim to choose at most one consensus layer feature and one execution layer feature.

这六个被提出的功能中，有两个我们已经在Refill上讨论得很多了。

So the six that have been proposed, two of them we already, talk about a lot on on the refill.

呃，抱歉。

I I sorry.

我应该说，其中一个我们已经在Refill上讨论过，那就是Fossil。

I should say one of them we already talk about a on the refill, which is Fossil.

我认为Fossil会在共识层胜出。

I think Fossil is gonna win on the CL side.

我只是不明白为什么它不会被选中，毕竟它已经被推迟了几次，从其他升级中挪到了Hagotar中。

I just don't see why it won't, considering that it was punted like a couple of times from other upgrades to be in Hagotar.

所以我觉得Fossil会在共识层胜出，但执行层这边我们仍然需要做出选择。

So I I think that that Fossil is going to win, but then we still have, the execution layout side, to to kinda choose here.

针对这一点，已经提出了几个不同的EIP。

And there have been a few different EIPs proposed for this.

我认为至少我看到的两个最受欢迎的提案是关于加密内存池的，总的来说，加密内存池一直是个非常热门的选项。

I think the two most popular ones at least that I've seen were, the kind of, I guess, like, I mean, there's two for encrypted mempools, but just like encrypted mempools generally, that's been a really popular one.

另一个叫做Frame Transactions的提案，与量子抵抗有关。

And another one called frame transactions, which has got to do with, quantum resistance.

现在我不会逐一解释这些提案的具体内容。

Now I'm not going to explain what each of these do.

如果你感兴趣，可以自己去查阅一下。

You can go, kinda look for yourself if you'd like.

它们可能实际上就在Forecast上。

They may be on forecast actually.

我这就在我另一块屏幕上打开Forecast。

I'm just gonna bring up forecast on my other screen here.

是的，它们确实在上面。

Yeah, they actually are.

它们在Forecast上。

They're on forecast.

感谢团队把这一切整理出来。

Thank, you know, thank the the team for putting this together here.

你可以在Forecast上查看每一个提案，并在这个网站上了解更多。

You can see each of these on forecast and learn more about them on this website.

我会在下面的YouTube描述中附上链接。

I'll link in the YouTube description below.

不过，这里还有其他几个提案。

But yeah, there's a there's a couple of others here as well.

我不确定它们是否会像两个D两个D PDAs那样，那个在共识幻灯片上。

I don't know if they're going to like like such as two d two d PDAS, which is on the consensus slide.

抱歉。

Sorry.

在共识层方面，这涉及到数据可用性采样，也就是 blobs 当然。

On the consensus layer side of things, which has got to do with data availability sampling, which is blobs of course.

我不知道这是否会进入 Hagotar 或类似 Fossil 的东西。

I don't know if that's gonna go into Hagotar over something like Fossil.

所以我认为 Fossil 对共识层来说是确定的选择。

So I I do think that Fossil is a lock for the CL.

我不会说这是百分之百的定局，但它无疑是遥遥领先的领先者。

I'm not gonna say it's like a 100% kind of lock here, but it is definitely the front runner by by far.

但在执行层方面，是的，这仍然有点难分胜负，因为还有 SSZ 执行区块，它改变了以太坊在其两层之间存储和共享区块数据的方式。

But on the EL side of things, yeah, it's still a little bit of a top up a a toss-up because there's also SSZ execution blocks, which is which changes how Ethereum stores and shares block data between its two layers.

我不确定。

I don't I don't know.

你知道，这显然是一个重大升级。

You know, apparently that's like a a big upgrade.

就像，不知道。

Like, don't know.

这就是关于什么是大升级或小升级、什么是大EIP或小EIP的主观性问题所在。

This is this is the thing about like, I guess, the subjectivity that can go into this about what's a big versus small upgrade here or big versus small EIP.

因为你所依赖的不仅是核心开发者和研究人员的意见，还某种程度上依赖于社区对它们想要什么的看法。

Because what you're relying on is not just the opinion of, core devs and researchers, but you're also kind of relying on the opinion of the community about what they want.

因为如果核心开发者和研究人员说，我们可以做这个，而且很简单，那它很可能就可以作为非重点内容直接纳入。

Because if the core devs and researchers say, we can do this and it's easy, well then it can probably just go in as a non headliner.

但如果他们说这实际上很困难，值得作为重点内容，那么你就必须——而且他们说它可以作为重点内容，但必须作为重点内容。

But if they say that it's actually difficult and then it's kind of headliner worthy, well then you have to basically and and they say they can do it as a a headliner, but it has to be a headliner.

那么这就又回到了社区，社区会问：你们想要什么？

Well then it defaults back to the community where the community is basically like, what do you want?

你知道，你们希望从这三项EL、EF4中得到什么——抱歉，我应该说。

You know, what do you want out of this these three EL, EF4, sorry, I should say.

但我的意思是，其中两项是相似的，因为它们都是加密的内存池。

But I mean, two of them are, similar in that they're encrypt encrypted mempools.

然后社区必须对此表达他们的看法。

And then the community basically has to give their take on this.

核心开发者、研究人员和其他利益相关者会就此进行讨论，最终你会得到一个答案。

Core devs, researchers, other stakeholders, they will discuss this, and then you'll basically get, an answer out of that.

但正如我所说，我认为在共识层方面，如果要在Fossil和两个dPiadas之间选择，因为blob目前状态很好，看起来并不需要两个dPiadas，而且你知道，也不需要买Hagotar。

But, yeah, as I said, I think on the consensus layout side, if it's between Fossil and two d Piadas, because of the fact that blobs are in a really good spot and it doesn't look like they're going to need two two d Piadas and, you know, buy buy Hagotar.

也许他们需要，但看起来他们并不需要。

Maybe they will, but, like, it doesn't look like they will.

如果我们必须在这里做个假设，我会说Fossil会成为共识层的主打功能。

If we have to kinda make an assumption here, I would say that Fossil will be the the headliner for the CL side.

在执行层，我们再看加密内存池的情况。

On the EL, we'll see about encrypted memples.

我之前已经在上次L2讨论之前的那次分享中，或者再之前那次，表达过我的看法了，我当时就说：我不确定。

I already gave my my my thoughts on that on I think the last refill before the l two talk that I did or maybe even the one before that where I basically said that like, I don't know.

我目前还没被说服接受加密内存池，而且还真有人进了Discord频道。

Like, haven't been convinced yet on encrypted Mempools and someone actually came into the Discord channel.

我现在已经忘记他的名字了。

I've forgotten their name now.

向这位朋友致歉，但他们进入了Discord频道，并提出了许多非常有力的关于加密内存池的论点。

Apologies to to this person, but they came into the Discord channel and, you know, they gave some really, really good arguments about encrypted Mempools.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这位是来自Shutter团队的Antonzo。

So it's it's Antonzo here from, from the Shutter team.

也就是提出Shutter化加密内存池EIP-8105的团队，这个方案是通用内生加密内存池，正是这里的主要候选方案之一。

So the the team that proposed, the shutterized kind of encrypted Mempool EIP eighty one zero five, which is the universal enshrined encrypted Mempool, which is literally one of the the contenders for a headliner here.

所以他进来后，提出了大量有力的论据，说明我们为什么需要这个方案，同时也回应了我之前对它的质疑，这非常好。

So so he came in and basically gave like a really good kind of bunch of arguments around why we need this and and kind of hitting back on my arguments about it too, which was which was really great.

但无论如何，我们还是得看看事情会如何发展。

But yeah, we'll see how that kind of, you know, shakes out there.

但我对它越来越看好。

But I am becoming more bullish on it.

但与此同时，还有一个竞争性的EL，即头衔交易框架，这是量子路线图的一部分。

But at the same time, there is also a competing EL, headliner frame transactions, which, you know, which is part of the quantum roadmap.

但问题是，这可能要等到海卡托尔分叉之后才能实现。

But the thing is is that that could probably happen in the fork after a Hecotar.

对吧？

Right?

比如，显然以太坊非常重视量子技术，但这真的紧迫吗？

Like, if like, obviously, Ethereum is taking Quantum really seriously, but, like, is it an urgent thing?

如果我们在这里设定时间线，假设海卡托尔将在明年第一季度，也就是2027年第一季度上线，我们真的认为到那时量子技术会成为现实吗？

Like like, if we put the timeline here, if we say Hagotar will go live, let's say q one next year, q one twenty twenty seven, like, do we really think Quantum's gonna be a thing by then?

你知道，可能不会。

You know, probably not.

我的意思是，我觉得这种情况发生的可能性非常低。

I mean, I would say like a very low chance of that.

再往后推六个月，到2027年第三季度，甚至第四季度。

And then project out another six months to like q three twenty twenty seven or even q four.

我们觉得到那时量子计算会成为一个重大威胁吗？

Do we think quantum's gonna be a major threat by then?

也许它正逐渐显现为一个更大的威胁，那时我们可以说，好吧，也许我们会采用类似帧交易这样的方案，或者另一个EIP，因为已经有多个针对量子抵抗的EIP了。

Maybe it's coming into view as more of a major threat, and then we could say, okay, well, maybe we'll do the kind of frame transaction thing or or another EIP because there's there's multiple EIPs for quantum resistance.

也许我们会把它作为那次升级的一个主打功能来实施，你知道的。

Maybe we will do that, you know, as a as a kind of a headliner for that for that, upgrade there.

所以，我们会看到情况如何发展的。

So, yeah, we'll we'll see.

但就CL而言，是的，正如我所说，我至少希望采用Fossil，我长期以来一直支持它，但我们还得看看未来几个月这里会发生什么。

But in terms of CL, yeah, as I said, Fossil is the one that I want at least and one I've been championing for a long time now, but we'll have to see, what, what happens there over the coming, months here.

我不再讨论这个了。

I'm moving on from that.

你们还记得以太坊基金会不久前宣布了他们的千亿美元安全倡议吗？

So you guys remember that the Ethereum Foundation announced their trillion dollar security initiative a little while ago.

这基本上是一项旨在高度重视以太坊安全性的倡议。

This is basically initiative to take security very, very seriously on Ethereum.

所以基本上要把以太坊链打造成全球最安全的去中心化结算层。

So basically make the Ethereum chain the most secure decentralized kind of, I guess, settlement layer in in the world.

为此，他们投入了大量资金和研究资源。

And to that end, they're putting a lot of funding towards this, a lot of research towards this.

这个新网站本质上是向你展示他们把精力集中在哪些方面。

And essentially what this new website does is show you where they're kind of, putting their time into.

这个网站是 trilliondollarsecurity.org。

So this is at trilliondollarsecurity.org.

我当然会在下面的 YouTube 描述里附上链接，供你们查看。

I'll of course link this in the YouTube description below for you to check out.

但基本上，你可以看到他们在做什么，跟踪这项工作的进展——哪些已经上线、哪些正在进行、哪些还在研究阶段，以及整个技术栈中规划的内容，比如密钥管理、隐私保护、被攻破的网页界面等，所有与安全相关的方面。

But essentially, you can kinda see what they're doing, and kinda follow the progress of this, you know, what's live, what's ongoing, what's in research phase and what's planned across the kind of entire, stack here, such as like key management, privacy, compromised web interfaces, like the whole kind of gambit here when it comes to security.

此外，还有智能合约安全、基础设施与云安全、共识协议安全、监控与事件响应及缓解、社交层与治理。

Then you've got like a smart contract security is a whole section here, infrastructure and cloud security, the consensus protocol security, monitoring incident response and mitigation, social layer and governance.

这些就是六大类别。

And those are the kind of six, categories there.

第一个类别是用户体验。

The first category is user experience.

这是一项非常全面的举措，朋友们。

So this is a very, very comprehensive initiative guys.

它涵盖了从用户层到协议层，甚至包括社交层和治理层的整个栈。

Like this covers the entire stack from the user layer all the way down to the protocol layer, and even the layers like the social layer and and governance layers here.

我不知道还有哪条链在做类似的事情。

I don't know of any other chain that's doing anything remotely close to this.

而这正是我们热爱以太坊的原因。

And again, this is why we love Ethereum.

这正是我们理解以太坊在加密领域中遥遥领先的原因。

This is why we understand that Ethereum stands above all of the other things within crypto.

这也是我仍然留在这个行业的原因。

And this is why that I'm still in this industry.

如果不是因为以太坊，我早就离开这个行业了。

Like, I I would have quit this industry a very long time ago if it wasn't for Ethereum.

而且，你知道，以太坊可能仍然存在，但它本可能走向一个完全不同的方向。

And, you know, Ethereum could still exist, but it could have gone in a very different direction.

关于以太坊应该走向何方，显然一直都有争论。

There's obviously debates about what direction Ethereum should go in all the time.

这正是我们最常争论的问题之一。

Like, that's one of the things that we debate the most.

但以太坊实际走上的这条路，多年来我一直深有共鸣。

But the direction that it has gone in has been one that I've really resonated with for many years now.

而这种现状对我来说是至关重要的因素之一。

And and this existing is is one of the major things for me.

我一直相信，对于一个一层链来说——对于二层链，论点可能不同——但要成为一个真正的一层链并最大化其价值，你必须做到去中心化、安全且抗审查。

Like, I I've always believed that for a layer one chain that I think the arguments are different for like layer twos, but for a layer one chain to be a layer one chain and to get the most value out of being a layer one chain, you need to be decentralized, secure, and tends to resistance.

这不仅仅是稍微具备这些特质。

And it's not just a little bit of those things.

你需要尽可能多地拥有这些特质。

You need as much of those things as you can get.

你需要能够朝着这些因素的最大化方向努力。

You need to be be able to push towards the the maximum amount of those things.

你可以这样理解：你永远不可能达到100%的完美状态。

You're you're like, essentially the way to think about it is that like you're never gonna reach like a 100% in the anything.

你永远无法实现完全的去中心化，或者说是完美的去中心化、完美的安全性、完美的抗审查性。

You're never gonna reach a 100% decentralization or I should say perfect decentralization, perfect security, perfect sensitive resistance.

但如果我们能尽可能接近完美，那就是我们的目标。

But if we can get to as close to perfect as possible, that is what we're aiming for.

我们并不是只想达到50%就觉得可以了。

We're not aiming for, I will just get 50% there and it'll be okay.

我们也不是想随便定个什么数字就满足了。

We're not aiming for like any arbitrary number like that.

我们的目标是尽可能接近这三个核心维度上的100%。

We're aiming to get as close as we can to a 100% across those three main kind of verticals there.

以太坊基金会正在推动的安全计划至关重要，因为太多关键因素都依赖于此。

And the, you know, the security initiative that the EF is spearheading here is critical to that effort because of the fact that so much falls into this.

对吧？

Right?

正如我一直以来所说的，去中心化是以太坊其他特性所衍生出的涌现属性。

As I've always said, decentralization is an emergent property of other properties that come off of Ethereum.

安全性是这里的一个关键因素，各位。

Security is a major one here, guys.

以太坊已经实现了超过十年的不间断运行，因为我们对安全性极其重视。

Ethereum has over ten years of uptime because of the fact that we take security extremely seriously.

是的，以太坊上确实发生过不少黑客攻击事件。

And yes, there's been plenty of hacks in Ethereum.

对吧？

Right?

很久以前曾发生过一次导致协议硬分叉的黑客攻击，即DAO事件，但确实发生了。

There's been a hack of, that's resulted in a a protocol hard fork, the DAO, a very long time ago, but it still happened.

还有智能合约层面的攻击，这些当然不属于协议层面的问题，但仍然属于以太坊生态系统的一部分。

And then the smart contract hacks, which obviously aren't protocol related, but it's still in the Ethereum ecosystem.

这就是为什么这里有一个完整的智能合约安全专题。

That's why they have a whole smart contract security track here.

对吧？

Right?

基础设施方面，我们以前就见过这类事情。

Infrastructure, we've seen these things happen before.

我们见过网站被DNS劫持的情况。

We've seen websites be, taken over DNS hijacking.

我们见过Bybit发生的事情。

We've seen what happened with Bybit.

对吧？

Right?

共识协议，比如在协议层面上。

Consensus protocol, like on the on the protocol layer side of things.

我们见过导致验证节点离线的漏洞。

We've seen bugs that take validators offline.

最近在分叉之后，Prism 就发生过一次，对吧？

We saw one recently with Prism after what happened with, after the fork, right?

然后是事件响应、监控之类的措施。

And then incident response and and monitoring and stuff like that.

过去我们在这方面做得并没有像现在这样好。

We haven't had, you know, as good as we can in in the past around this sort of sort of stuff.

社交层和治理，我认为这也是一个非常重要的方面。

And social layer and governance, I think that's a big one as well.

所有核心开发者的治理流程一直在改进，但我觉得过去几年有了很大提升，因为大家对此投入了很多关注。

The governance process for all core devs has always been improving, but it I I I would say that it it's gotten a lot better over the last couple of years because there's been a lot of focus on it.

所以社交层总是会有些模糊不清。

So the social layer is always gonna be murky.

这不是你能完全规划好的事情，但你可以稍微引导它朝着你希望的方向发展，比如设定期望和建立护栏，明确标准，然后说：好吧，社交层就是这样运作的。

It's not something that you can you can kind of plan for, you can kind of, I guess, massage into what you want it to be, but you can put like expectations and kind of guardrails in place where essentially you you set a standard and you can be like, okay, well, is how the social layer does things.

我认为在以太坊生态系统中，我们自然已经形成了一种标准，但将其正式化，建立一个集中的地方来规范它，我认为同样非常重要。

And I think we we naturally have a standard for that within the Ethereum ecosystem, but formalizing it, having like a a central kind of place for it, I think is really, really important here as well.

所以，是的，你可以自己去看看这个万亿级安全的 .org 网站。

So, yeah, you can go give this, this trillion dollar security,uh,.org website a look for yourself.

我会在 YouTube 描述下方附上链接，方便你查看。

I'll link it in the YouTube description, below for you to do so there.

好的。

Alright.

接下来，我想特别提一下 Vitalik 发的一条推文，看到他发这样的推文挺有意思的。

Next up, just wanted to highlight a tweet from Vitalik, which is a pretty cool tweet to see him tweeting.

大约十八个月前，他曾发过类似的内容，但这次他是回应 Ryan Short Adams 的，所以我得先说说 Ryan 的推文内容。

He did tweet something similar to this about eighteen months ago, but he said, in response to Ryan Short Adams here, so I should say what, Ryan's tweet was.

Ryan 说，我最想听到 Vitalik 明确说出的一件事是：以太币是一种叙事性价值，也是以太坊上最重要的应用之一。

So Ryan said, the the last say the quiet thing out loud things I'd like to hear from Vitalik is that Ether's a story value and one of the most important apps on Ethereum.

Vitalik 回复说：以太币是一种叙事性价值，也是以太坊上最重要的应用之一。

Vitalik replies and says, Ether's a story value and one of the most important apps on Ethereum.

Again，他十八个月前就说过类似的话，所以这并不是他第一次这么说。

Again, he did say something similar eighteen months ago, so this isn't the first time that he has said this.

但他再次重申这一点总是好事，因为人们显然会听Vitalik的话。

But him reiterating this is always a good thing because people listen obviously to Vitalik.

人们会关注以太坊中那些更高级、更显眼的人物，比如Vitalik、Justin Drake和Tomas，因为他是以太坊基金会的负责人。

People listen to the higher kind of, I guess, like, more visible people in Ethereum like Vitalik, like Justin Drake, like Tomas because he's at the head of the EF.

对吧？

Right?

这些人都会听他们的话。

Like all these people, they listen to them.

我认为没有人比Vitalik更受重视。

And I think no one listens to anyone more than Vitalik.

他的话很有分量。

Like his word carries weight.

他在加密领域拥有最可信的声誉，尽管他也有黑粉，我永远无法理解。

He's got the most legitimate reputation within crypto even though he's got his haters, I'll never understand.

但毫无疑问，他是加密领域最值得信赖的人。

But he is, I would say the most legitimate person in crypto by far.

在合法性方面，没有人能接近他，更不用说长期的合法性了。

Like there's no one else that comes close to him in terms of legitimacy, and and in terms of like long term legitimacy as well.

所以当他这样说时，这句话分量很重。

So when he says something like this, it carries a lot of weight.

那为什么这很重要呢？

Now why is this important?

这是因为多年来我在Refuel节目中一直强调的：以太坊要想成功，光在技术层面成功是不够的。

Well, it's important for all the reasons that I've been going on about for many years on the refuel in that for Ethereum to succeed, it's not enough to succeed from the technical standpoint.

它还需要在经济层面取得成功。

It also needs to succeed from an economic standpoint.

这意味着ETH的价格要尽可能上涨。

And that means ETH going up as much as possible.

当然，有些人会说，哦，这听起来真俗气。

And, yeah, some people will say, oh, you know, that's that's just gross.

这说明你只在乎钱。

That just means you only care about money.

ETH会怎样其实并不重要，随便怎样都行。

It doesn't matter like what ETH does, whatever.

关键是让这项技术能够提供去中心化、抗审查以及其他所有优秀特性，从而为世界打造更好的产品。

It's about empowering the the technology to offer decentralization, censorship resistance, all that good stuff to make better products for the world.

当然，这很明显。

Obviously, sure.

这是一件大事。

That's a huge thing.

但问题是，如果我们想要实现真正的去中心化金融，我们就需要ETH。

But but the thing is, is that if we want to have things like true DeFi, you need ETH.

你不可能用任何其他代币实现真正的去中心化金融。

You can't do true DeFi with any other token.

你不可能用USDC或USDT这样的稳定币实现它。

You can't do it with stable coins like USDC and USDT.

你也不能用某些DeFi代币，因为它们本身就有控制机制。

You can't do it with, certain DeFi tokens, right, because they have they have controls in place.

你绝对无法用现实世界资产实现这一点，因为它们本质上就不是去中心化的。

You definitely can't do it with real world assets because they are just by their very nature and not decentralized.

所以，如果我们看看以太坊上唯一的去中心化资产，那就是ETH。

So if we look at the only decentralized asset on Ethereum, it's ETH.

那么，你为什么不希望ETH的价值尽可能高呢？

So why wouldn't you want ETH to be worth as much as possible?

因为这样系统就能获得更多的经济带宽。

Because then you get more economic bandwidth in the system.

你会获得更多的流动性。

You get more liquidity.

你会获得更多的系统关注度。

You get more interest in the system.

我的意思是，我们都清楚这一点。

Like, look how I mean, we all know it.

当价格上升时，就会吸引新人加入。

Like, when prices go up, it brings in new people.

这就是这类事物的本性。

That's just the nature of the beast with these things.

但如果你和我一样相信去中心化金融是区块链最大的潜在市场。

But if you like, like me believe that DeFi is the biggest total addressable market for blockchains.

我认为像去中心化金融这样的领域，还有一些利用去中心化金融的应用，比如AI代理，其规模可能不亚于去中心化金融本身。

And I would say that like DeFi, like there are things that kind of use DeFi that could be as big as DeFi such as AI agents.

我最近才逐渐意识到这一点，但对此感到非常兴奋，因为加密领域中，AI代理是最自然契合的领域。

I'm really kind of coming just coming around to it, but I'm really getting like super hyped up about that because of the fact that if there's anything within crypto that has a natural fit, it's AI agents.

因为正如我上次在某一集中提到的，AI代理根本无法使用传统系统。

Because as I mentioned last time on one of the episodes, AI agents cannot use the traditional system at all.

这和人类不同，我们是有选择的。

It's not like humans where we have a choice.

我们可以选择使用传统金融，或者链上系统，也可以两者兼用。

We can either use TradFi or use OnChain or we could use both.

这没问题。

It's fine.

他们根本不能使用传统金融系统。

They can't use TradFi at all.

那里对他们来说风险太高了。

There's too many risks there for them.

他们无法轻易为自己开设账户，因为他们没有身份信息。

They can't just easily set up accounts for themselves because they don't have IDs.

他们不是人，对吧？

They're not people, right?

他们无法通过KYC审核。

They they can't KYC.

传统系统的速度对他们来说太慢了。

The the system's too slow for them.

他们会遭到封禁。

They'll get banned.

他们会立刻被平台封禁，因为他们不是人。

They'll get the platform straight away because they're not people.

那里没有救济途径。

There's no recourse there.

所以，如果他们想要自由，如果这些代理希望自由地做自己想做的事，那么唯一能实现的地方就是链上。

So if they want to be free, if the agents wanna be free to do what they want, the only place they can do that is on chain.

但同样，并非所有区块链都是一样的。

But again, not all chains are created equal.

他们真正能这样做的是去中心化的区块链。

The only place they can truly do that is a decentralized chain.

我会选择像以太坊这样的去中心化、无许可、功能强大的区块链，而不是比特币，因为在比特币上他们无法实现这些功能。

And I would and a decentralized permissionless expressive chain like Ethereum, not Bitcoin because they can't do this stuff on Bitcoin.

我甚至认为，以太坊是AI代理唯一合乎逻辑的选择。

And I would actually argue that Ethereum is the only logical choice for AI agents.

目前没有任何其他区块链是他们的合理选择。

There is no other chain out there that is a logical choice for them.

你知道吗？有趣的是？

And I've you know what's funny?

我其实几年前也提出过这个观点。

I actually argued this like years ago as well.

这不仅仅是因为我们的代理是新趋势，我几年前在Refuel上就提出过这个观点，还发过推文讨论过。

It's not just that because obviously, our agents are are a new trend, but I argued this years ago on the refuel and I put a tweet out about this as well.

我记得当时因此受到了很多批评，我说从长远来看，代理们唯一愿意开展业务、进行金融活动的地方将是以太坊。

I remember I got a lot of heat about it where I said that long term, the only logical place that agents will want to do business on and want to do their financial, stuff on is Ethereum.

当然，关于以太坊到底是什么，存在很多争议。

And obviously there's a lot of debate around what Ethereum is.

是L1，还是L2，还是两者都是？

Is it the l ones or the l twos or is it both?

无所谓。

Whatever.

从代理真正去中心化的角度来看，它们要么在L1上，要么在第二阶段的L2上。

From this perspective of truly decentralized for the agents, it's gonna be L one or it's gonna be stage two L twos.

它们可能仍然会停留在这些所谓的零阶段或一阶段的L2上。

They're probably gonna still be on these kind of like, I guess like stage zero, stage one L twos.

它们可能还是会留在中心化的链上。

They're probably gonna be on the centralized chains.

如果我们谈长远来看，谈它们想在哪里存储财富，那些聪明的、不会被抽流动性或遭遇其他风险的、真正意义上的自主代理，它们会希望部署在以太坊L1上。

If we're talking long term, if talking where they want to store their wealth and the smart ones, the ones that aren't going to get like rug pulled or whatever, the ones that are actually going to be, proper autonomous agents, they're gonna want to be on Ethereum L one.

以太坊L1也在为这一点做建设，因为我们正通过ZKVM、Gas费优化等种种方式提升可扩展性。

And Ethereum l one is building for that as well because we're building more scale obviously with ZKVMs, with Gassam increases, all that good stuff there.

但我们也正在为它们建立新的标准，这一点我前几天已经提到过。

But we're also building new standards for them, which I covered, you know, the other day.

来自以太坊基金会的大卫一直在主导这项工作，并推动其发展。

David, from the Ethereum Foundation, he's been, you know, spearheading this and, growing that.

奥斯汀·格里菲斯也在以太坊基金会做着大量相关工作。

And there's been and Austin Griffith is also, you know, at the Ethereum Foundation doing doing a lot of work there as well.

你可以在Twitter上关注他们两人，就能掌握这里发生的大部分动态。

You can follow both of them on Twitter and cover up basically most of the stuff happening here.

但我觉得AI代理不会消失，它们也永远不会使用传统金融系统。

But, you know, I don't think AI agents are going away and I don't think that they're ever going to use the TradFi system.

而且我真的认为，如果规模足够大，比如这些代理再增长一到两个数量级，它们实际上可能成为一种推动力，促使所有人上链，让所有传统金融企业更快地上链，让更多人加入链上生态。

And I actually think that if the order of magnitude is is big enough, like if if these agents grow another order of magnitude or two, they could actually act as a forcing function to get everyone on chain, to get all the TradFi businesses on chain even faster, to get other people on chain.

我在Deadaway的Discord频道里说过，我认为AI代理这一领域有可能最终引发另一次DeFi夏季。

And I said this in the Discord channel, in the Deadaway Discord channel, where I said that I actually think that the AI agent stuff has a chance to eventually result in another DeFi summer.

因为我知道，你们当中很多人可能没经历过2020年的DeFi夏季，但当时的情况并不是一夜之间发生的。

Because a lot of you I know probably weren't around in 2020 for DeFi summer, but what happened was is that it didn't just happen overnight.

DeFi真正开始认真建设，我认为是在2018年，到了2019年，我们陆续看到了更多协议的出现，比如Uniswap、Compound等等。

DeFi started building in earnest, I would say in 2018, and then in 2019, we got a, you know, a bunch more protocols like Uniswap and stuff, and then and Compound and and stuff like that.

所以我们当时已经具备了必要的基础构件。

So we had the building blocks there.

然后到了2019到2020年——抱歉，是2020年——所有要素终于汇聚在一起，引发了巨大的财富效应，让很多人赚到了钱，这些资金随后涌入DeFi，大量来自其他链的用户涌入以太坊，形成了一个正向循环。

Then 2019 2020, sorry, everything came together and it caused this massive wealth effect that resulted in a lot of people having a lot of money and then that getting injected into DeFi, a lot of people coming from other chains into Ethereum, and and and we just have like that flywheel there.

正是这种效应推动ETH从100美元涨到了大约4000、4400美元，许多DeFi代币也暴涨不已。

And that's what pushed ETH from $100 up to, you know, whatever it was, like 4 k, 4.4 k, and a lot of the DeFi tokens went nuts as well.

是的，后来价格回落了，但那种巨大的影响确实存在。

Yes, they came down, of course, but like there was still that massive effect there.

所以我认为，如果我们操作得当，打好基础，建立正确的标准，并且好好发展这件事，也许今年就能迎来一场真正的AI夏天——不是那种迷因币的东西，各位，那些垃圾统统不要。

So I do think if we play our cards right here and we set the right kind of foundations up here and we set the right standards up and we and we grow this thing quite nicely, maybe just during this year, maybe we have an AI summer, like an actual AI summer, like an AI agent summer, not the meme coin stuff guys, like none of that crap.

我说的是真正正经的东西，因为我对迷因币的问题在于，我记得曾和某人聊过这个，我就不点名了，但我记得在现实生活中跟他说过。

Like I'm talking actual legitimate stuff because my issue with meme coins, and I remember talking to someone about this, I won't mention who he is, but I remember talking to someone about this where I basically said that I've you know, I told them it was in real life.

我说过，我从不掩饰自己对迷因币的极度厌恶。

I said, I've I've made no kind of, attempt to hide the fact that I absolutely despise Meme Coins.

我认为它们对整个领域是净负面影响。

I think they're they're a net negative on the space.

我觉得它们简直糟糕透顶。

I think they're absolutely horrible.

我觉得它们最终不会带来任何好结果，这还是大约一年半前的事了。

I think they're gonna result and this was back like maybe, you know, eighteen months ago or something like that.

我想那是在曼谷的DevCon期间。

I think it was in Bangkok for for DevCon.

我不认为它们会对加密货币产生任何积极影响。

I, you know, I I don't think it's gonna result in anything good for crypto.

当然，我对这一点的判断是正确的，虽然我不太想自夸，但我们可以非常容易且安全地认为，模因币对加密货币造成了巨大的净负面影响。

And of course, I was right about that, not to toot my own horn, but I think we can very easily and safely say that meme coins were a massive net negative for crypto.

它从加密生态系统中抽走了大量资金。

It took a lot of money out out of the crypto ecosystem.

但后来有人对此提出异议，他说：那DeFi夏天的食品币呢？

But then I got pushed back on that and he said, well, what about DeFi summer with food coins?

这是一回事。

It's the same thing.

我说：不是的。

And I'm like, no.

不是的。

No.

不是的。

No.

这根本不是一回事。

It's not the same thing.

我们从DeFi夏季得到了DeFi。

We got DeFi out of DeFi Summer.

我们从模因币中得到了什么？

What the hell are we getting out of Meme Coins?

我们什么都没得到。

We got nothing.

模因币的创新在哪里？

Like, where is the innovation with Meme Coins?

它们到底带来了什么？

What do they actually bring?

它们为市场带来了什么产品？

What products do they bring to the table?

单纯的炒作乐趣算不上新产品。

Pumped up fun is not a new product.

对吧？

Right?

这只是一个带有DEX的迷你币工厂，而我们之前就已经有这些东西了。

It is a min coin factory with with like a DEX and that we already had that stuff.

对吧？

Right?

它只是把一些东西简单地组合在了一起。

It just brought a couple of things together.

这里根本没有新的创新。

There was no net new innovation here.

所以，这种权衡并不值得。

So the the trade off wasn't worth it.

就像我们在DeFi夏季确实经历了投机狂热，但从中得到了DeFi，正如我之前所说，这是加密领域最大的潜在市场。

Like we had the speculative mania in DeFi summer obviously, but we got DeFi out of it, which is, as I as I said before, the biggest TAM for crypto.

所以，对于Meme币，我们什么都没得到。

So, with Meme Coins, we've got nothing.

去年有一段时间，AI相关的Meme币也出现过。

And we had Meme Coins around AI too, like for a brief period last year.

所以我在这里谈论的是利用链上技术进行真正的AI创新，以及由此产生的创新成果。

So what I'm talking about here is actual innovations with AI using on chain to do innovative things and for innovations to come out of that.

是的，会有一些代币供人投机，人们也会赚钱或亏钱，但只要能从中产生一些东西，只要我们能获得创新，那就没问题。

Yes, there's gonna be tokens to speculate on and yes, people are gonna lose and make money, but that's fine as long as things pop out of it, as long as we get innovation popping out of it.

如果什么都没产生，如果最终只是纯粹的抽取价值，那这根本不是净收益。

If nothing comes of it, if all that comes of it is extraction, then that's not a net positive at all.

这完全是净损失。

That's a net negative.

所以，显然，你们很清楚，这正是我对模因币的问题所在，而且现在依然是，我很高兴它们消亡了。

So that's what my obviously, you guys know very clearly what that was my issue with with Meme Coins, and it still is, and I'm glad they died.

我知道它们终将消亡。

I knew they were gonna die.

它们持续的时间比我预期的要长，但我早就知道它们会消亡。

They lasted longer than I thought they would, but I knew they were gonna die.

而颇具讽刺意味的是，终结它们的人竟是特朗普，他推出了自己的模因币。

And it's actually kind of poetic that the person who killed them was Trump with his own meme coin.