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大家好，亲爱的朋友们。
Hello, beautiful people.
今天的嘉宾是Dan Ko。
My guest today is Dan Ko.
我和Dan在过去一两年通过Twitter相识，我们一见如故，因为我长期关注他的思想观点。
And Dan and I connected on Twitter in the past year or two, and we obviously hit it off because I've been reading his thoughts for so long.
在这次对话中，我们探讨了Twitter的力量，他如何精通Twitter的使用技巧，以及具体是如何做到的。
But in this conversation, we spoke about the power of Twitter and how he's gotten good at Twitter and how exactly he's gotten good at Twitter.
我们讨论了他的一些推文。
We've talked about some of his tweets.
我们聊了他的晨间习惯，还谈到了他的纹身。
We talked about his morning routine, and we also spoke about his tattoos.
这次对话让我感到无比愉快。
I had an absolute pleasure with this conversation.
希望你们能和我录制时一样享受这段对话。
I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed recording it.
如果你是刚来的听众，本播客每周一、三、五更新新节目。
New episodes of the podcast come out Monday, Wednesday, Friday if you're new around here.
你也可以在YouTube上观看这些节目的视频版本。
And you can also find the video versions of these episodes on YouTube.
网址是youtube.com/dannymiranda。
That's youtube.com/dannymiranda.
感谢你花时间收听。
Thank you for your time.
感谢你的聆听。
Thank you for listening.
如果你对这次对话有任何想法或反馈，请在Twitter上@Hey Danny Miranda告诉我。
And if you have any thoughts, feedback about this conversation, let me know on Twitter at Hey Danny Miranda.
闲话少叙，让我们开始与Dan Coe的对话吧。
Without further ado, let's get into the conversation with Dan Coe.
有趣的人物，发人深省的对话，为你的大脑提供营养。
Interesting people, thought provoking conversations, nutrition for your brain.
这里是丹尼·米兰达的播客。
This is the Danny Miranda podcast.
丹，非常感谢你今天能来参加节目。
Dan, thank you so much for joining me today.
我真的很感谢你抽出时间。
I really appreciate you taking the time.
嗯。
Yeah.
没问题。
No problem.
我很高兴能来这里。
I'm excited to be here.
谢谢你邀请我。
Thank you for having me on.
太棒了。
Hell, yeah.
这是我的荣幸。
It's it's my pleasure.
我想从一个有趣的话题开始，那就是你的纹身。
And I wanted to start things off with, I guess, an interesting topic, which is just your tattoos.
我在看你的视频和内容时注意到你有很多纹身，我当时就觉得，哇。
I noticed in in watching your videos and going through your stuff, I noticed you had a bunch of tattoos, and I was like, wow.
这挺有意思的。
That's pretty interesting.
这背后有什么故事吗？
What's the story behind that?
所以我不知道你是只有一个还是有好几个，但请详细说说。
So I don't know if you just have one or several or but break it down.
详细讲讲你的纹身是怎么回事。
Break down what what's going on with your tattoos.
好的。
Yeah.
我最近刚完成了我的花臂纹身。
So I just recently finished my sleeve.
虽然还有些地方需要补，但我的第一个纹身是手腕上的一颗小钻石。
I still have some stuff to fill in, but the first tattoo I got is a little diamond on my wrist.
那是在我刚满18岁时纹的。
And that one was that was right when I turned 18.
某种程度上算是种叛逆行为吧。
And it was kind of like just a rebellious move on my end.
我当时就想，我就要这个。
I was kind of like, I want this.
这看起来多酷啊。
This looks cool.
给我纹上吧。
Put it on me.
自那以后，我一直都是那种喜欢深入研究的人，比如自学什么的。
And after that, I've always been the kind of guy that likes to study a lot, like self study.
这就是我现在在这里的原因，因为我学习得非常多。
That's why I'm here now is because I study so much.
后来有一次我沉迷于灵性修行，读了很多书，经常冥想，尽量保持平静和觉知。
Then I went on a big spirituality binge one time, pretty much reading a bunch of books and meditating a lot and being as calm and aware as possible.
而那本真正改变我对一切看法的书是埃克哈特·托勒的《当下的力量》。
And that, the book that really changed my perspective on everything was called The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
这让我在手腕上纹了'当下'这个词，因为它不断提醒我要深呼吸，活在当下，不为周遭发生的一切而焦虑。
And that made me get now tattooed on my wrist because it's like a constant reminder to just take a breath and get into the moment and not stress about everything that's going on.
这又引出了剩下的纹身。
And that led to kind of the rest of them.
所以我有一个盆景树的纹身。
So I have a bonsai tree.
我还有一个衔尾蛇的纹身，就是一条蛇在吃自己的尾巴。
I have an ouroboros, which is like the snake eating itself, like its tail.
是的，它们基本上都代表了我一路走来所学到的东西。
And yeah, they're all pretty much representations of what I've learned along the way throughout life.
其中有些看起来并不明显，但我赋予了它们这种意义。
And some of them don't look like it, but I've attached that meaning to it.
是的，就是这样。
And yeah, that's really it.
但现在我已经不太关注它们了。
But now I don't really pay attention to them.
有时候我甚至都没注意到它们。
I don't even notice them sometimes.
我知道我有纹身，但大多数时候它们对我来说就像不存在一样。
I know I have tattoos, but it's like most of the time they're not even there to me.
对吧？
Right?
但它们肯定还是以某种方式进入了你的潜意识。
But they still must be going into your subconscious somehow.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
我就是这么想的。
That's what I like to think.
那是什么让你开始沉迷灵性书籍的？
So what got you started on the spirituality bender of reading those books?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得主要是因为听起来很有趣。
I believe it was just, it sounded interesting.
而且我想研究一些对我来说过于复杂的东西。
And I wanted to study something that seemed a bit too complex to me.
我想更深入地了解这些灵性导师到底在讲什么。
I wanted a deeper understanding of what all these spiritual dudes are about.
比如，这些是不是都是些玄乎的东西？
Like, is it all woo woo stuff?
结果发现并不是这样。
And it turns out it wasn't.
有些内容确实如此，但背后都有实际应用价值，这点我很喜欢。
Some of it is, but it all has like a practical application behind it, which I really enjoy.
其实让我读第一本《当下的力量》的人是Matt Oguess。
Actually the main person that made me read that first book Power of Now was Matt Oguess.
他是YouTube上最早一批健身博主，我刚开始训练时经常看他的视频。
He's like an OG fitness bro on YouTube that I used to watch all the time when I was first getting into training.
于是就读了那本书，然后就这样一路读下来了。
And so read that book and yeah, just went from there.
你刚才提到有些内容很玄乎，有些则不然。
Well, you said a bunch of things were woo woo and some of it was not.
具体是指什么？
What was that?
对你来说，哪些内容属于玄乎范畴，哪些不属于？
What's the breakdown there for different things that you found were woo woo and what wasn't woo woo to you?
是的。
Yeah.
我这么说是指人们的写作方式。
When I say that, I mean by like how people write it.
也许这只是我的阅读视角，比如在《当下的力量》中，他会说一些话。
And maybe that's just my perspective reading it is like in The Power of Now, he'll say something.
我手头没有具体例子，但他会说一些听起来有点古怪的话，让我觉得，哦，这个我不太理解。
I don't have a direct example, but he'll say something that just sounds a little wonky and like, oh, that's like, I don't understand that.
或者就是听起来太... 我不知道该怎么解释。
Or it just sounds too yeah, I don't know how to explain it.
对我来说听起来太玄乎了。
It sounds too woo woo to me.
但之后他会继续解释。
But then he would go on to explain it.
或者我会在网上或其他书里读到相关内容。
Or I'd read something else online or in another book.
然后这个概念对我来说就完全说得通了，无论是通过他人呈现的方式，还是书中随着内容推进提供的不同视角。
And then that concept would make complete sense to me in the way that either that other person presented it or from a different perspective that the book gave as it went through it.
是的，就像在推特上一样。
So yeah, it's like on Twitter.
你会读到很多内容，虽然传达的教训相同，但人们会从自己的视角来谈论它们。
You read a lot of stuff where the lessons are the same, but people talk about them through their own perspective.
其中某些视角对某些人来说可能会显得非常奇怪。
And some of those perspectives can be very weird to certain people.
对吧？
Right?
这就是推特很棒的地方——你可以关注那些你喜欢从他们那里获取这些经验教训的人。
That's what makes Twitter awesome is that you follow people that you enjoy reading those lessons from.
是啊。
Yeah.
我想先把推特这个话题放一放，稍后再回来讨论，因为
I wanna put a pin in Twitter and come back to it later because
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
当然。
For sure.
这个话题我相信我们会有很多要讨论的。
That that's a topic I'm sure we'll we'll have a lot to discuss.
但回到《当下的力量》，你从中获得的关键启示是什么？
But back to the power of now, what was the the key insight from it that you take with you?
显然你现在手腕上戴着它，但除此之外，你是如何将书中的实践应用到当前状态的？
Obviously, you have now on your wrist, but further than that, how do you apply the practices of that book to your present day state?
是的。
Yep.
有两件事我记得很清楚，一直伴随着我。
So the there's two things that I remember very well that stuck with me.
整本书里，基本上只有这两件事我记得并实践着。
Out of the entire book, these are pretty much the only two things that I remember and practice.
第一点是当你进行日常生活时，要留意周围的事物，真正注意到各种物理或视觉上的感受，或者任何你能集中注意力的事物，而不是脑海中疯狂奔涌的思绪。
So one is when you're just going about your daily life, noticing the things, noticing everything really in terms of like physical or visual sensations or something that you can put your focus on that isn't the thoughts going crazy in your mind.
保持临在就是一种活在当下的实用方法。
Being present is just a practical way to stay present.
比如当你在户外散步时，与其只是随意瞥一眼树木就回到漫无目的的状态，不如真正去观察那些树木。
So when you're taking a walk outside and you look at the trees rather than just like looking at the trees and glancing at them and then going back to whatever you were looking at, probably just nothing, right?
注意树木上的细微特征。
Notice like the minor details in the trees.
真正去凝视它，将你的意识和注意力完全投入其中。
Like actually look at it and bring your awareness and attention to it.
如果你全神贯注地这样做，几乎不可能再陷入头脑中的焦虑或担忧。
And if you're fully doing that, it's almost impossible to be in your head and stressing or worrying about anything else.
同理，当你在家洗碗时也是如此。
And the same goes for if you're at home and you are doing dishes.
与其因为不得不洗碗而生气，不如完全专注于水流的感觉、碗的触感等所有细节。
Rather than being angry because you have to do dishes, just focus fully on like the sensation of the water and how the bowl feels and all of that stuff.
所以这是一种保持当下的实用方法。
So that's one thing, just a practical way to stay present.
另一个我听说他们称之为'行动的三种模式'。
And the other one, I believe they call it the three modalities of doing.
这三种模式分别是：接纳、享受和热情。
And what those are, it's acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm.
当你做任何事情时，其中一种模式应该被激活，对吧？
And when you're doing anything, one of those should be activated, right?
因为有些事情你就是不会喜欢。
Because some things you just aren't gonna enjoy.
但你可以接受必须做这件事，这种接纳——真正内化这种接纳会让事情变得容易得多，虽然不会因此变得享受，但你明白我的意思吧？
But you can accept that you have to do that and just accepting it, like internalizing that acceptance will make it much more easier, not enjoyable because you're not enjoying it, but you know what I mean, right?
然后是热情。
So, and then enthusiasm.
所以如果你在做任何事情时都能激活其中一种模式，就很难陷入头脑中的负面状态，或者说整体上都是如此。
So if you can keep one of those activated when you're doing anything, then it's hard to be in a negative state in your head or just in general.
这就是两个主要方面。
So those are two main things.
是的。
Yeah.
那么当你回顾那三种模式时，在日常生活中你会自问：好吧，
So when you're going back to those three modalities, when you're going about your day to day life, are you thinking to yourself, okay.
我现在是否处于这三种状态之一？
If am I operating in one of these three states right now?
这是你正在做的事情吗？
Does that something that you're doing?
只有当我意识到自己不想做某件事的时候。
Only when I know that I don't want to do something.
对。
Right.
举个例子，如果我害怕去跑腿办事，我就会想：好吧，我不会享受这个过程，但我可以接受现在需要完成它，而且很快就会结束。
So if I'm dreading, going in running errands, just as an example, it's like, okay, I'm not going to enjoy it, but I can accept that I need to just get it done right now and it's going to be over.
对。
Right.
所以就是这样。
So that's really it.
主要是我自己不想做某些事情的时候。
It's mainly when I personally am not wanting to do something.
害怕它、担心它、投射到一个未知的未来，这种未来会带来压力和焦虑等等。
Dreading it, worrying about it, projecting into the future, an unknown future that causes stress and anxiety and all that stuff.
嗯。
Yeah.
这完全说得通。
That that makes complete sense.
那么回到我们之前讨论的Twitter话题，让我们从你最初决定使用Twitter的原因开始说起。
And so going back to Twitter, which we're talking about before, let's just start with why you decided to come onto Twitter for the first place.
比如，为什么Dan Coe会说：'我想开个Twitter账号，开始在Twitter上打造自己'？
Like, why did Dan Coe say, I wanna start a Twitter account and start building myself on Twitter?
这是怎么发生的？
How did that come to be?
这里面有很多原因，老兄。
This there's a lot of things, man.
你可能已经听过我的故事了，我尝试过很多不同的事情，对吧？
So you you may have already heard my story, but I've tried so many different things, right?
我尝试过建立YouTube频道、运营Instagram页面、用五种不同技能做自由职业，但都没能成功。
I've tried building a YouTube channel, building an Instagram page, freelancing with five different skills and not making any of them work.
所以当我看到Matt Oguess这些人在YouTube上的表现时，我就想成为他们那样的人并效仿他们。
So when I was watching people like Matt Oguess on YouTube, I kind of wanted to be like them and emulate them.
对吧？
Right?
他们是我的榜样。
They were my role models.
这就是我想做并为之努力的事情。
That's something that I wanted to do and work towards.
创作能影响他人的内容似乎是一种非常有意义的赚钱方式。
And creating content that impacted other people seemed like a very rewarding way to make money.
对。
Right.
所以在尝试了所有那些事情后，我选择了网页设计，从工作中转型。我长期使用推特，可能有一两年了，关注着我们现在联系的所有人。
So after trying all those things and then settling on web design, transitioning out of my job, I had been on Twitter for a long time or maybe like a year or two and following all of the people that we're connected with now.
对吧？
Right?
我看到了他们发布的内容。
And I saw what they were tweeting.
其中大部分都让我深有共鸣，尤其是一些大V的推文。
Most of it resonated quite a bit with me, especially some of the big players.
然后有一天，人们开始...我关注了一些建议在推特上建立受众的人。
And then just one day, people started like, I followed some people that were telling you to build an audience on Twitter.
我当时就想，我可以模仿这些人发布的内容。
And I was like, I can replicate what these guys are posting.
虽然不是完全复制他们的内容，但我觉得自己积累了足够的知识和经验，在生活中也成长到能够提供一些价值并影响他人，尤其是在Twitter这样的平台上。
Like, not exactly what they're posting, but I feel like I have enough knowledge and experience and have leveled up enough in life to be able to provide some value and impact some people, Especially on a place like Twitter.
这一切对我来说突然变得清晰，因为我之前尝试过YouTube。
It kind of all just clicked for me because I had tried the YouTube thing.
那是个健身频道，但我真的不太喜欢被人拍照或成为焦点，尤其是健身这种主要与外表相关的领域。
It was a fitness YouTube channel and I just didn't really I don't really enjoy being I don't enjoy people taking pictures of me or just being the spotlight of something, especially when it's something like fitness where it's mostly vanity.
或者你也可以不靠这些来运作。
Or you can make it work without it.
但那是我当时的看法。
But that was my view of it at the time.
所以在Twitter这样的地方写作，我可以直接把原始见解发布到世界上，这对我来说很有意义。
So writing on somewhere like Twitter, where I could just put like raw insights into the world, that made a lot of sense for me.
于是我开始发帖。
And so started posting.
这是个疯狂的旅程，因为刚开始时你会觉得'这行不通'。
It was a crazy journey because when you're first starting out, it's like, this isn't going to work.
这条帖子一个赞都没有。
I got zero likes on this post.
感觉一切都糟透了。
Like, everything's going to shit.
然后回到当下的力量。
And back to power of now.
不过没错，你只管坚持做下去。
But yeah, you just work through it.
继续发帖。
You keep posting.
你和其他人互动，现在才有我们的对话。
You interact with other people, and now we're here.
是啊。
Yeah.
你两次提到马特·奥格斯特，我想再聊聊他。
You mentioned Matt Oguess twice, and I wanna bring him back up.
具体是他的哪些内容吸引了你？
What specifically about him attracted you to his content?
哎呀，这个问题问得好。
Dang, that's a good question.
我也不知道。
I don't know.
就是和他特别有共鸣。
I just vibed with him a lot.
他说的每句话都完全符合我对这个问题的看法。
Every single thing he said just was my exact view on the subject.
他说的每件事都让我深有同感。
Everything he said resonated with me.
如果遇到他谈论我不懂的话题，就会让我大开眼界。
If I didn't understand a topic that he was talking about, then it just blew my mind.
因为就像发现了一个我特别喜欢的新视角。
Because it's like, oh, this is a new perspective that I just love.
他把自己定位成一个非常真实诚实的人，想要揭穿健身行业里许多胡扯的东西。
And the way he positioned himself as a very truthful and honest person that wanted to debunk a lot of the crap that was going on in the fitness industry.
对吧？
Right?
就像他和视频里出现的其他伙伴一样，这是他们的主要卖点。
Like him and his other buddy that was on videos with him, that's their main selling point.
或者说人们观看他们的主要原因，就是他们没有推广任何流行饮食或花哨的增肌方法。
Or the main reason that people would watch them is that they're not promoting any of this fad diets or fancy ways to build muscle.
他们只专注于基础，并让这些原则在你的生活方式中发挥作用。
They were focused solely on the foundations and making that work in your lifestyle.
这非常吸引我，因为我想要更接近真相，至少这是我现在想做的事。
And so that attracted me a lot because I want to work closer to the truth or at least that's what I wanna do now.
对吧？
Right?
那时候，我其实并不明白这一点。
Back then, I didn't really know it.
这非常吸引我。
It just attracted me a lot.
Matt Oguess是如何帮助你在社交媒体上建立个人品牌的？
How is that Matt Oguess helped you create your own brand on social media?
哦，老兄。
Oh, man.
其实Matt Ogus有点淡出了。
Well, I Matt Ogus kind of fell off.
我实在不愿看到这样。
I I hate to see it.
我多希望他能持续制作视频。
Like, I wish he kept making videos consistently.
但确实，最近很少看到他的动态。
But, yeah, I haven't seen much from him lately.
我已经有好几年没看过他的内容了。
So it's been a few years since I've actually watched some of his content.
但这正是让我想去做的事。
But it makes me want to do just that.
它让我想要分享那些我认为能让人们更接近真相的信息，对吧？
It wants me it makes me want to put out information that I believe is working people closer to the truth, right?
我特别强调独立思考，但这并不意味着你完全不受任何影响。
I heavily stress independent thinking, which I don't think is the same as like, you're not influenced by anything.
生活中你会受到很多事物的影响。
You're influenced by many things in life.
但关键是要能退后一步，质疑这是否完全正确或部分正确，而不是把社交媒体上看到的每个观点都固化在脑海里，对吧？
But being able to take a step back, question if this is actually true or somewhat true and not just solidifying every idea into your mind that you read on social media, right?
所以如果我发布一些人们不愿谈论的内容，他们可以在评论区礼貌地提出异议并给出不同论点，我超爱这种互动。
So if I post something that people don't like to talk about and they can come into my replies and disagree respectfully and present a different argument, I love that shit.
我特别喜欢这类讨论，因为它们能挑战我的思维方式，让我走上更好的轨道。
That's like, I love having those discussions because it can challenge my way of thinking and put me on a better track.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
这很有道理。
That makes a lot of sense.
你在Twitter上的日常发推流程是怎样的？
And what is your process for Twitter, for creating tweets, for what you do on a day to day basis?
你有固定的工作流程吗？
Do you have any set routine or anything like that?
其实比较随性。
It's kind of all over the place.
在理想情况下，我会在早晨完成冥想、喝水等基本晨间流程后立即开始写作。
If I, in a perfect world, I write in the morning, like almost right after I wake up and finish like morning meditation, chugging water, basic morning routine.
对。
Right.
然后来到书桌前，通常会阅读些内容或看个视频来激发灵感。
And come to my desk, I will usually read something or watch a video, something that just gets my mind flowing with ideas.
然后如果我在阅读或收听的内容中发现了吸引我的东西，我就会拿这个话题加入自己的见解。
And then if something catches my attention in what I read or in what I listen to, then I like to take that topic and put my own spin on it.
我通常关注的是那些和马特·奥格斯类似的人，他们都在努力更接近真相。
And I'm usually watching people that are similar to Matt Oguess in the aspect that they are trying to work closer to the truth.
所以我阅读和观看那些我想成为的人以及播客内容。
So I'm reading and watching people that I aspire to be like and podcast to.
然后我会用自己的经历来理解这个概念，并把它写成推文。
And then I use my own experiences to take that concept and put it into a tweet form.
但这只适用于偶尔灵光一现想到的几条推文。
But that's only for a few tweets if they come to my head.
之后基本上就是坐着等灵感自己冒出来。
And then after that, it's kind of I just sit there and wait for an idea to pop into my head.
所以推特上的创作规律其实有点混乱。
That's why the routine is kind of screwed up with Twitter.
我没法把所有内容都集中在早上完成。
I can't just do it all in the morning.
有时候是在我睡前，晚上躺在床上时，明明知道不该看手机。
Sometimes it's before I go to bed and I'm laying there at night and I know I shouldn't be on my phone.
但晚上躺在那儿，就等着灵感闪现，好让我能加工成一条推文。
But I'll be laying there at night and just waiting for an idea to pop into my head that I can take and spin into a tweet.
然后我会拿起手机快速记下来，放下手机，再等一会儿。
And then I'll take my phone, write it down really quick, put it down, wait a bit more.
如果想不出什么内容，那我就不写了。
And if I can't come up with anything, then I just don't write.
比如有时我一天只发一条推文。
Like sometimes I'll tweet once a day.
有时一天会发八到十条推文。
Sometimes I'll tweet eight to 10 times a day.
所以真的完全没有规律可言。
So it's really just all over the place.
不过，对，这就是我大致的创作流程。
But, yeah, that's my general process.
是啊。
Yeah.
我很想听听看。
I'd love to hear about it.
那么在你早上开始工作前，会从哪些渠道寻找灵感呢？
And so who are some of those sources that you are looking for for inspiration before you start in the morning?
具体是哪些人呢？
Who are some of those people?
有哪些播客书籍资源可以推荐？
What are some of those podcast books, resources that Yeah.
你能分享一些吗？
You can pass along?
好的。
Yeah.
说实话我不太擅长自己搜集信息，特别是博客文章这类资源。
There are so I'm not really good about finding information for myself, especially blog articles.
我不会在开始阅读前刻意寻找完美的文章。
I don't go and try to find the perfect article before I start reading.
我用的是Medium这个博客平台。
I use Medium, the blog place.
还有Darius Faroe，他是个很棒的作家。
And there's Darius Faroe, who's a great writer.
Matt Lilly White也很不错，我一直在关注他。
There's Matt Lilly White, which I've been it's cool.
我们一直在Twitter上互动。
We've been interacting on Twitter.
有天他评论了我的一条帖子。
And he commented on one of my posts just one day.
我当时就想：不会吧！
And I'm like, no way.
这可是我几乎每天都会阅读的作者啊。
This is the guy that I read almost every day.
能和他互动真是太棒了。
And so it's super cool to be interacting with him.
还有蒂姆·丹宁也是其中之一。
And Tim Denning is another one.
至于播客方面，我最近听得比较少。
And then in terms of podcasts, I've been slacking on podcasts lately.
我以前经常听他的节目。
I used to listen to him quite a bit.
但还有汤姆·比利尤的《影响力理论》节目。
But there's Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu.
乔·罗根以前也经常出现在我的收听列表中。
Joe Rogan used to be in the rotation quite a bit.
老实说，这些就是主要的了。
And those are the main ones, honestly.
当然，还有这个节目。
And of course, this one.
我听过几期你们的节目。
I've listened to a few of yours.
但就像我说的，我现在不怎么听播客了。
But as I said, I don't listen to too much podcasts now.
是啊，乔·罗根以前经常听。
Yeah, Joe Rogan used to be in the rotation.
汤姆·比利欧的节目我有一阵子几乎每天必听。
Tom Billieux was like an everyday thing for quite a while.
这一切是如何影响你，并让你所处的环境充满你想要实现的目标或你想带来的改变？
And it's all about how have you found that impacting and and flooding your environment with the things that you want to achieve or the things you wanna bring?
你如何利用环境和培养环境来带来更大的成功？
How have you used your environment and cultivating that to bring about increased success?
是的。
Yeah.
我非常相信——不知道你会不会称之为洗脑，但确实要吸收优质信息。
I'm a huge believer in the whole, I don't know if you'd call it brainwashing, but consuming good information.
吸收优质信息，因为它会储存在你的潜意识中，真正影响你的生活方式和思维方式。
Consuming good information because it gets stored in your subconscious and it truly affects how you go about life and the way you think about life.
如果你满脑子都是消极的东西，你很可能会对生活持消极态度。
If you're filling your mind with negative stuff, you're more than likely going to have a negative outlook on life.
如果你满脑子都是积极的东西，你就会对生活持积极态度。
If you're filling your mind with positive stuff, you're going to have a positive outlook.
我亲眼见证过这个道理的真实性。
And I've seen that to be true.
再加上那些灵性修炼的内容，就像锦上添花，让你充满积极思想。
Paired with the whole spirituality stuff, that is just like the cherry on top where you're filling your mind with positivity.
如果你持续练习能保持临在状态的方法，就很难陷入深度消极心态。
It's very hard to go super deep into a negative mindset if you're consistently practicing things that will keep you present.
所以冥想加上我们之前讨论的另外两件事——各种练习方式，以及对周围环境保持高度觉察。
So meditation and then the two other things that we talked about earlier, the modalities and just being aware, hyper aware of your surroundings.
这样回答你的问题了吗？
Does that answer the question?
我有点
I kinda
不知道我是不是想发脾气。
don't know if I wanna tantrum.
不。
No.
绝对。
Absolutely.
我以为你会继续讲下去，但没有。
I I thought you were gonna continue on there, but no.
都挺好的。
All good.
你简单提到了你的晨间习惯和它是什么样的，但你有起床后具体要做的事情吗？
So you mentioned briefly your morning routine and and what that was like, but do you have a specific things that you do after you wake up?
你有一个固定的晨间习惯安排，每天早晨要完成的事项清单吗？
Do you have a a modus operandi of your schedule of what you want to tackle every day on the morning routine front or no?
是的。
Yes.
天啊，我床头正对着就有一块白板，现在上面写满了东西，但第一条就是'起床'。
Oh man, I have a whiteboard literally bright in front of my bed and it's covered right now, but it has, it's wake up.
我尽量立刻坐起来。
I try to sit up immediately.
这是我在努力养成的习惯。
That's something I'm working on.
有时候我会赖会儿床，但我尽量做到一醒就立刻坐起来。
Sometimes I'll just lay in bed for a bit, but I try to wake up, sit up immediately.
我会在睡前接一大杯水，醒来后先喝掉半杯补充水分。
My water is like, I filled this big thing up before I go to bed and I'll try to down half of it just because get hydrated.
对。
Right.
然后我会去冲个澡。
And then I'll take a shower.
我会写日记，不过现在有点犹豫不决，因为我在纠结是用Notion还是实体笔记本记录。
I will journal, which I'm also kind of iffy about right now because I'm in between doing it in Notion and doing it in an actual notebook.
所以问题是：我该立刻打开电脑吗？
So it's like, do I want to get on my computer right away?
还是说直接手写记录？
Or do I just want to write it out?
这就是我目前纠结的事情。
So something I'm in between on.
然后冥想十分钟。
And then meditate just for ten minutes.
之后就去书桌前。
And after that, to my desk.
接下来就顺其自然了。
And it goes from there.
很棒。
Love it.
你说冥想的时候，具体对你来说是什么意思？
So when you say meditate, what does that mean exactly for you?
对我来说，我认为那应该被称为正念冥想。
For me, that's believe it's just called mindfulness meditation.
我对各种不同类型了解不多。
Not too read up on all the different types.
但我就是坐在床边，双手放在腿上，尽量保持坐姿端正，专注地用鼻子呼吸，感受气息进出鼻腔的感觉。
But yeah, I just sit there, side of my bed, hands on my legs, and try to make sure I'm sitting up straight and focus, breathe through my nose, and focus on the sensation of the breath going in and out of my nose.
我以前做过引导式冥想，但后来逐渐放弃了，因为我不喜欢每次开始前都要做全身扫描。
I used to do guided meditation, but eventually just worked away from it because I'm not a fan of doing the whole body scan thing at the start of everyone.
不知道这是个人偏好还是其他原因，但我就是喜欢专注于呼吸的感觉。
I don't know if that's personal preference or if it's something else, but I just like being able to focus on my breath.
嗯。
Yeah.
那么回到Notion和纸质日记本的问题，两者各有什么优缺点呢？
So going back to the Notion verse journal, what are the pros and cons to both?
你简单提到不想用笔记本电脑，除此之外还有什么其他顾虑吗？
You mentioned briefly about you don't want to be on the laptop, but what other things are on your mind about that?
Notion里我还存放了所有工作相关的内容。
So Notion, I also have all of my business stuff in there.
我为公司业务单独建了一个工作区。
I have a workspace for the agency.
里面有内容日历和我自己设计的计划模板，包含晨间思考区——我通常在那里写东西。
I have a content calendar and then my version of the planner with like the morning thoughts section, which is where I would write it.
经常会出现这种情况：我正要做某件事，
So I've had it happen where I'll go to something else.
却跑去查看当天要完成的其他任务，
I'll check up on like something I need to do for the day.
然后就完全分心了。
And then I'm just distracted.
比如现在我就不想冥想。
Like I don't wanna meditate.
我只想直接开始。
I just wanna get straight into it.
所以关键就是不要分心。
So that's the main thing is just not getting distracted.
但它的好处是它有一定的引导性，我可以用它来规划好当天晚些时候要做的事情。
But the pro of it is that it's kind of guided and I can plan out exactly what I'm doing later in the day with it.
不过我也可以打印一份计划表，在上面完成这些。
But I could also just get around that by printing out a copy of the planner and doing it there.
所以我觉得我需要专注于一种方式，因为我有一本专门为数字计划表设计的空白笔记本。
So I think I just need to dedicate myself to one because I have a blank notebook like specifically for journaling of the planner, of the digital planner.
我只需要选择一种方式并坚持下去。
I just need to pick one and stick with it.
嗯。
Yeah.
你提到了强力计划表。
You mentioned the power planner.
我不确定你是否提到过，但那个高效计划表是你自己设计的吧？
I don't know if you mentioned it, but the power planner is something you've created.
我很好奇你是怎么想到这个点子的？它是怎么诞生的？
And I was curious how you've come up with that or how'd that come to be?
是的。
Yeah.
我一直都是计划本的超级粉丝。
I have always been a huge fan of planners.
这简直就是我的心头好。
Like, it's just my thing.
我在亚马逊上买过不少计划本，也长期使用过子弹笔记——就是那种需要自己绘制版式的本子。
So I have ordered a good amount of planners from Amazon or I use the bullet journal for the longest time where you kind of draw out your own structure.
我特别喜欢一款叫熊猫计划本的产品，因为它完全满足了我的需求。
And I really liked one called the Panda Planner because it just had everything that I needed in there.
所以我就决定自己设计一款。
So I just decided I'd create one.
我原本想用它创立一个电商品牌，但后来觉得太复杂了。
I wanted to start in e commerce brand with it, but that got a bit too hairy.
我当时就知道这不该是我的首要任务。
And I just knew it shouldn't have been my priority at the time.
不过确实，我确实制作了一些实体版本。
But yeah, I did make some physical copies.
主要是这样，我想从熊猫计划本中汲取优点，再加上我经常在推特上分享的内容——因为我经常发关于专注力和效率的推文。
That was the main thing is like, I wanted to take the good things from the Panda Planner and also things that I tweet about because I do tweet a lot about like focus and productivity stuff.
所以我回顾了自己的一些推文，找出共同主题，参考熊猫计划本，看看如何融合。
So I referred back to some of my tweets, saw some common themes there, looked at the Panda Planner, see how they could mesh.
然后加入了我自己极简的黑白风格设计，并订购了一些样品。
And then I put my own minimalistic black and white style to it and ordered some copies.
成品看起来棒极了。
They looked amazing.
我特别喜欢实体版本。
I love the physical version.
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我希望有一天能把这个当作兴趣项目来实现。
I wanna do that someday as a passion project is get that.
我不确定是否需要自动化，但我肯定想销售实体版本，让人们能真正拿到手。
I don't know if I want an automated, but I want to be able to sell the physical versions for sure and get that in people's hands so they can hold it.
是的，其实我就是特别喜欢计划本。
Yeah, that's really it is I just love planners.
我也很喜欢亲手制作的过程，因为这就像是个兴趣项目。
I loved being able to actually build it as well because it was kind of like a passion project.
这感觉就是我真的想做的事情。
It's like, this sounds like something I really wanna do.
我决定全力以赴，因为我知道具体步骤能让实体版成真。
I'm just gonna go all out on it because I know the exact steps that I can take to get a physical copy in my hand.
而且我有个可以销售的平台。
And I had a platform where I could sell it from.
所以当时做这个决定很顺理成章。
So it just made sense to do that at the time.
面对这么多可选择的机遇，你是如何做到不被它们分散注意力的？
How do you think about the so many opportunities available and not getting distracted by them?
你提到了电商。
You got you mentioned ecommerce.
你提到了代理业务。
You mentioned agency.
推特、油管，听起来你涉足的领域很广。
You Twitter, YouTube, you're thinking about sounds like hands are in all the buckets.
你是如何避免被下一个新潮事物分散注意力，而坚持自己的愿景的？
How do you think about not getting distracted by the next latest greatest thing and staying true to a vision or something like that.
是啊。
Yeah.
这真的很难，伙计。
It's really hard, man.
老实说，我得承认这点。
Like, I'll I'll admit it.
人们会告诉你，我也会告诉你，就是不要陷入那种追求新鲜事物的综合症。
People will tell I'll tell you, like, don't don't fall into the whole shiny object syndrome thing.
但如果有什么特别突出的事物，那种好奇心确实很难抗拒。
But if something stands out to it, it's hard to deny that curiosity.
对吧？
Right?
尤其对于我这种热爱钻研、喜欢深入探索某些事物的人来说，有时候就是控制不住自己，结果脑子里塞满了300种实体计划方案，明白吗？
Especially being someone who loves to study and go down the rabbit holes of certain things, it's like sometimes I just can't help myself and I end up with 300 physical planners in my head, right?
但这真的很难。
But it's really hard.
这是个持续不断的斗争，因为我总会这样。
It's a constant battle because I'll do that.
有时候我会偏离轨道，跑去搞YouTube。
Sometimes I'll get put off track and I'll start the YouTube.
我就干过这种事。
I've done that.
或者我会开始规划这件事。
Or I'll start the planner thing.
现在我正尽可能保持Instagram的持续更新。
Right now I'm trying to stay as consistent as I can with Instagram.
但我知道目前在Twitter上做得很好，需要在这方面加倍努力。
But I know that I'm doing very well right now on Twitter and that I need to double down on that.
所以如果某件事进展不顺，或者让我压力太大，而且与Twitter或代理机构方向不符，那就需要退一步重新评估。
So if something isn't working out or I'm just getting too stressed about it and it's not in line with Twitter or the agency, then it's like, okay, I need to step back, reevaluate.
我真的应该做这件事吗？
Should I actually be doing this?
能否减少投入但仍能看到进展？
Can I decrease my output and still see progress in it?
还是应该暂时放下，等以后再次产生兴趣时再回头？
Or should I just put it down and possibly come back to it later if it sparks my curiosity again?
你刚才提到了Twitter。
You said Twitter.
所以你在推特上显然很擅长吸引人，创作大家想看的内容，获得关注和流量。
So what you're you're obviously very good at Twitter in terms of engaging stuff, creating stuff that people wanna see, and and getting follow and getting attention.
那么你知道哪些别人不知道的诀窍呢？
So what do you know that everyone else doesn't?
这就是关键啊，老兄。
That's the thing, man.
我经常参加各种社交圈子，结交朋友拓展人脉之类的。
I'm in groups with people, networking and making friends and all that stuff.
说真的我不是在炫耀，但总有人问我：兄弟，这条推文你是怎么想出来的？
And they'll I'm not bragging when I say this, but people will ask me like, dude, how did you come up with that tweet?
老实说我自己也不知道。
And it's like, honestly, I don't know.
我就是随手写的。
I just wrote it.
真的就这么简单。
That's really it.
我也不知道为什么我写的推文会特别受欢迎。
Don't know how I write the tweets that do extremely well.
就是觉得，嗯，这个听起来不错。
It's just like, Okay, this sounds good.
就这么发吧。
Let's roll with it.
也许这是我人生中不同经历和影响积累的结果。
So maybe it's a culmination of experience in different things and influences in my life.
但我只是尝试抓住一个概念，然后尽可能让它听起来既精辟又有见地。
But I just try to take a concept and I try to make it sound as good and insightful as I can.
我最喜欢你的一条推文是——可能是我有史以来最喜欢的——追求最高版本的自己固然痛苦，但不追求最高版本的自己更加痛苦。
One of my favorite tweets from you is, or maybe my favorite ever is the only thing more painful than pursuing the highest version of yourself is not pursuing the highest version of yourself.
你能详细说说这个观点吗？
Could you talk a little bit about that?
好的。
Yeah.
这很有趣，因为你知道查尔斯吧？
So it's funny because, you know, Charles, right?
《写作致富》的作者。
Writing to Riches.
他也说过同样的话。
He said the same thing.
我很惊讶现在有两个人把那句话列为最喜欢的推文，而那只是我两分钟内随口想出来随手发出去的。
I was surprised that now it's two people that that's one of their favorite tweets when that just came out of my head in two minutes and I popped it in there.
但事实确实如此。
But that's really it.
我之前可能在推特上也用多种不同方式表达过这个观点。
It's either I've said this before in probably multiple different ways on Twitter as well.
如果你不在建设或成长，你就在衰退。
If you're not building or growing, you're decaying.
安于现状也是同样的道理。
And same thing with being complacent.
当你自满时，你并非原地不动。
When you're complacent, you're not staying in one place.
你的习惯正在退化。
Your habits are degrading.
你可能在拖延那些最终会反噬你的事情。
You're probably putting things off that will just come back to bite you.
你的债务可能越积越多。
You might be going more and more in debt.
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
但如果你没有积极掌控该做的事并建设更好的东西，哪怕只是微不足道的量，那你就是在衰退。
But if you're not actively staying on top of what you need to do and building something better, even if it's a miniscule amount, then you're decaying.
这也适用于你必须做些什么来提高生活质量，尽管那可能很痛苦。
And that goes with the fact that it may be painful, the things that you have to do to increase your quality of life.
但这样做的结果是更好的生活质量，远比无所作为、眼睁睁看着生活每况愈下要好得多。
But the outcome of that is a better quality of life, which is much better than not doing anything and experiencing the pain of decaying or the good things in your life going downhill.
当你倒退或停滞不前时，你会如何应对？
How do you deal with it when you go backwards or you stay the same?
因为很明显，我们不可能人生的每时每刻都在前进。
Because, obviously, we can't be pushing forward every moment of our life ever.
那么你如何看待那些被迫维持现状或被迫倒退的时刻？
So how do you think about the times when you are forced to maintain or forced to go backwards?
是啊。
Yeah.
这是个难题。
That's a difficult one.
其实我也回答过这个问题。
And I actually answered that question too.
有人问我，是不是总认为邻家芳草绿？
Someone asked me, like, is the grass always greener?
是否应该永远追逐更绿的草地？
Should you always be chasing that greener grass?
这让我陷入了思考。
And it made me think.
我在一个问答环节中回答过这个问题。
I answered it in a Q and A.
我不得不停下来尝试回答，然后又停下，再次尝试回答。
And I literally had to stop, try to answer it, stop again, try to answer it.
最终我给出了一个拼凑的答案：当你只能将事物维持在一定程度时，就会出现一个临界点。
And then finally, I came up with a jumbled together answer of there gets to a point where you can only maintain things to a specific extent.
就像如果你在健身房是个天生的训练者，你会很享受塑造体型或看到举重进步的过程。
So like if you're in the gym and you're a natural trainer, you're gonna have a lot of fun and enjoyment building that physique or just seeing progress in how much weight you're lifting or things like that.
但总会有一个时刻，你要么达到极限，要么进步极其缓慢。
But there comes a time where you either cap out or you're gaining extremely slowly.
在某种意义上，这就会变得单调或重复。
And it just becomes monotonous in a sense, or it is repetitive.
但到那时，我认为你要么爱上了这个过程，要么就是出于错误的理由在做这件事。
But by then, I do think that you're either in love with the process or you were doing it for the wrong reasons.
这就是我大概的答案，因为我还没有完全想清楚。
So that is kind of my answer because I don't have that answer fully together.
要么你清楚这是你应该做的事，你真心享受这个过程，只是暂时处于低谷但你知道会反弹；要么这件事根本不值得你投入太多时间和精力。
It's either you know that it's the thing that you should be doing, you truly enjoy the process and you're just in a low spot and you know that it will bounce back up, or it's just something that you shouldn't put much time and attention to.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Right.
所以我好奇的是，当你受伤了会怎样？
So what I'm I'm curious about is, like, what happens when you get an injury?
假设你热爱举重，却被迫退步。
Let's say you love lifting weights and you're forced to go backwards.
比如你被迫减少重量，或者被迫跑得慢一些。
You know, you're forced to to lift less weight or you're forced to run a little bit slower.
你如何应对这些时刻？
How do you deal with those moments?
是啊。
Yeah.
老兄，这个也很难，因为我经历过这种情况，你会经历那种'天啊，我四周都不能去健身房了'的低落期。
Man, that one's tough too because I have done that and you kind of go through the little like, oh, man, I'm not going to be able to go into the gym for four weeks.
这糟透了。
This sucks.
但我确实认为这正是灵性修行发挥作用的时候，你会意识到自己对那种情况的消极反应并不真实。
But I do believe that's where the spirituality practice comes into play, where you're aware that your negative responses to that situation aren't true.
你只是被困在自己的思绪里。
You're just in your head.
你在担忧。
You're worrying.
你在对未来进行灾难化想象。
You're projecting into the future.
除非你能保持专注并观察自己的思维，从外部视角审视这些想法，否则你会被迫陷入末日心态。
And you're being forced into a doomsday mindset unless you know how to see your way out of that by remaining present and observing the thoughts from, yeah, observing the thoughts from like an outside perspective.
是的，这很有道理。
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
稍微换个话题，关于在网上展示自己，我觉得很多人没谈到的一点是这可能会让人感到孤独。
Kind of switching gears here a little bit is like going and putting yourself out there online, I think something a lot of people don't talk about is that it can be lonely.
对吧？
Right?
你是唯一一个在发推文的人。
There's you're the only one doing you're the one writing tweets.
所有事情都是你一个人在操办。
You're the one doing everything.
当然这并不意味着一定会孤独。
It doesn't have to be lonely by any means.
但你有没有遇到过这种情况？
But have you found that to be the case?
如果有的话，你是怎么应对的？
And if so, how do you deal with that?
我个人并没有觉得很孤独。
I personally haven't found it really lonely.
可能在最初阶段，从零到500或1000粉丝的时候（随便举个例子）。
Maybe at first, the first zero to 500, 1,000 followers, random number.
在你不认识任何人的情况下，确实会感到有些孤独。
It was kind of lonely in the aspect that you don't know anyone else.
而且你会有点胆怯。
And you're kind of intimidated.
你对他们有一种看法，会把他们捧上神坛，。你会想，这些人有5万粉丝。
You have a viewpoint of them that kind of puts them on a pedestal where you're like, dang, these people are they have 50,000 followers.
他们一定是极其聪明、疯狂的人类。
They must be an insanely smart, crazy human being.
但事实并非如此。
But that's not the case.
他们只是普通人。
They're normal people.
但问题在于，在你真正接触他们之前，你会一直这样看待他们，直到发现他们其实和你一样。
But that's the thing is you see them that way until you experience that they are just like you.
他们只是在这个领域待得更久一些，经历更丰富一些。
They've just been in the game a bit longer and have experienced a bit more.
所以，是的，这大概就是我的答案。
So in terms of yeah, That's kind of my answer.
现在并不孤单，因为我有推特上那些每天都会聊天的人。
Right now, it's not lonely because I have the people on Twitter that I talk to on a daily basis.
其中有些人还是我的工作伙伴。
And some of them I work with.
是的。
Yeah.
所以如果有什么事情...这确实引发了一个思考，因为我完全能理解有人会感到孤独。
So if something okay, does bring up a thought because I can 100% see someone being lonely.
如果你的推文有点过于两极分化，你就会被推到推特的另一面，人们开始攻击你。
If your tweet is a bit too polarizing, you get puts in another side of Twitter, People start attacking you.
如果你找不到人倾诉，那真的可能会彻底结束你的旅程。
And if you don't have anyone to like talk that through with, then man, that can one end your journey altogether.
这种情况可能极具破坏性，因为你完全被压制，或者受到来自四面八方的攻击，却没有人支持你，因为他们只是看着评论心想'天啊'。
And it can be really destructive because you're just outweighed or you're being attacked from all angles and nobody else is backing you up because they're just reading the comments and are like, oh crap.
就像，发生了什么？
Like, what's going on?
这种事发生在你身上过吗？
Has that happened to you?
确实发生过。
It has.
是的。
Yeah.
我现在不怎么发相关推文了，因为我自己也没完全搞明白。
I don't tweet about it much anymore because I don't understand it fully.
我承认有时候我是在故意制造话题吸引互动。
I was kind of I'll admit that I was going for engagement bait at times.
所以我谈论抑郁症话题时遭到攻击是有道理的，因为我对它了解不够深入。
So I talk about the depression topic, which I was attacked for a good reason because I didn't understand it enough.
对吧？
Right?
或者在其他问题上，当我用绝对语气发表观点时，内容就会被断章取义。
Or other matters where I say something as an absolute, it gets taken out of context.
这让我开始质疑：我说的内容真的站得住脚吗？
And then it makes me question like, okay, is what I said actually real?
我是否该删除这条推文以免传播错误信息？
And should I delete this tweet so I'm not spreading false information?
你怎么看待这个问题？
How do think about that?
嗯，我会从对方是否也持绝对化立场这个角度来思考。
Well, I kind of think of it from the perspective of are they coming back to me with an absolute on the other side of things?
对吗？
Right?
就像说它是假的却没有拿出论证一样。
And just like saying it's false and not having an argument put together.
或者如果有人给出了充分的理由说明我错了，而且完全说得通，那就会觉得，好吧，我犯了个错误。
Or if someone gives me a good reason as to why I'm wrong and it just makes complete sense, then it's like, okay, like I made a mistake.
所以我需要避免再犯这样的错误。
So I need to not do this again.
或者我需要从一个不同的、更开明的角度来处理，帮助我的观众以正确的方式看清那个问题。
Or I need to approach from a different, more enlightened angle and help my audience see through that issue in a good way.
是啊。
Yeah.
问题是，如果你说得够多，如果你把自己暴露在外，如果你写得够多，你肯定会犯错，也肯定会因为不知道的事情被指责
And the thing is, if you speak long enough, if you put yourself out there, if you write long enough, you're bound to make mistakes and you're bound to get called out
哦，确实。
Oh, yeah.
因为现实本就如此。
For things that you don't know because that's just the nature of reality.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do you know what I mean?
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
正是如此。
That's exactly it.
这就是为什么我认为这件事非常有意义。
And that's why I think it's such a rewarding thing to do.
因为你的观点每天都在接受挑战。
It's because your perspectives are one challenged on a daily basis.
如果你抱着不断进步、完善这些观点的心态，那将是非常有益的。
And if you have the mindset of always getting better and refining those perspectives, then it's extremely rewarding.
你怎么不让这些挫折消磨掉继续前进的欲望呢？
How do you not let that kill your desire at all to keep going?
在遭遇那样的攻击后，你从哪里找到继续前进的动力储备？
Where do you find the the reserves to to keep going after you've been attacked like that?
是啊。
Yeah.
这是个好问题。
That's a good question.
叮。
Dink.
因为这很简单。
Because it's easy.
不。
No.
因为你很容易就会想，那些人攻击了我。
Because it's easy for you to be like, well, those per those people attacked me.
他们是对的。
They were right.
那我到底懂什么？我是否还应该继续？
So do I even know anything, and should I even continue?
是啊。
Yeah.
很容易陷入那种思维模式。
It's very easy to go into that frame of mind.
但要重新振作、再次站上击球区，那就很难了。
But then to go at bat again and and step up to the plate again, that's difficult.
那你是怎么得出这个结论的？
So how do you come to that conclusion?
你是怎么走到那一步的？
How do you get to that place?
嗯。
Yeah.
就像我之前说的，我是个狂热的学习研究者。
So as I said before, I'm a huge studier and researcher.
所以如果他们的论点逻辑合理，我通常会花整晚时间研究它，以便更深入理解这个主题。
So if it if their argument makes logical sense, I usually go and I'll spend my night just researching it so I understand the topic more.
到那时候，对发生的事情感到烦恼的情绪基本上就不存在了。
And then by then, it's like the being upset about what happened is kind of nonexistent.
因为现在的情况变成了我认同他们的观点。
Because now it's like, I agree with them.
我自己也成为了他们所说的一部分。
I'm part of what they have said.
所以如果我回去和他们交谈——虽然我实际上并不会回去找他们。
So if I were to go back and talk to them, which I don't go back and talk to them.
但如果是我，我希望他们能接受一个温和的道歉以及我的解释。
But if I were, I would hope that they would accept a soft apology and me telling them that.
关键是我会针对实际问题进行自我教育。
That's the main thing is I educate myself on the actual issue.
到那时我通常就会感觉好多了。
And then by then I usually feel fine.
加上所有的灵性修炼，可以说我是个情绪相当坚韧的人。
And with all the spirituality practice, I'd say that I'm a pretty emotionally resilient person.
所以这从一开始就不会对我造成太大影响。
So it doesn't affect me too much in the first place.
但我绝对能想象这种情况发生在其他人身上，比如让他们陷入恶性循环。
But it def I could definitely see that happening for other people, like where it throws them into a downward spiral.
是啊。
Yeah.
你怎么看待社会中面对面互动的缺失，以及这如何改变社会？
How do you think about the lack of face to face interaction in society and how that either how that changes society?
问得好。
These are good questions, dude.
是啊。
Yeah.
我绝对不喜欢这种情况，因为这会让人躲在屏幕后畅所欲言，而说话者可能自己都不见得相信那些话。
That is don't like it at all because it encourages being able to say whatever you want behind a screen when one, you may not even believe that.
说话的人可能自己都不相信那些话。
The person saying it might not even believe that.
他们这么说只是为了合群或攻击他人而不必承担后果。
They're just saying it to fit in or attack the other person with no repercussions.
我觉得如果对方没有那种情感韧性或能力来应对这种情况，那将非常危险。
I feel like that's very dangerous if the other person doesn't have that emotional resilience or ability to see their way through that.
所以我确实认为这很危险。
So I do think it's dangerous.
但在这种情况下，更需要有人去倡导这一点，提高人们的意识，让他们的受众能变得更好。
But in that case, there's just more need for people promoting that, promoting awareness of that so their audience can get better.
就像，我隐约记得你的故事。
And it's like, I remember your story a bit.
当你重新开始在推特上发帖时，我记得你说过类似'爱是唯一的方式'或'爱比金钱更重要'这样的话。
And when you started posting again on Twitter when I believe you said something like love is the only way or love is greater than money and other things like that.
你传播这种理念会产生连锁反应，让人们要么只是听到这个概念并在脑海中停留一会儿，要么暂时不做任何改变。
And that you promoting that causes that chain reaction of people either just hearing that concept and it getting stuck in their brain for a little bit and them not really doing anything about it.
最终他们会经历一些事情，让他们明白这才是正确的道路。
And then it eventually, they experience something that makes them understand that that is the way to go.
对吧？
Right?
而对于其他人来说，就像是'好吧，我知道我该这么做'。
And then other people it's like, okay, yeah, I know I should be doing that.
所以让我们稍微调整一下，重新回到传播积极信息的轨道上。
So let's realign a bit and get back on track to spreading a good message.
是啊。
Yeah.
这很疯狂，因为你无法面对面与人交流既是祝福也是诅咒——我正在传播这些信息，任何传播这些信息的人都是如此。
It's crazy because it's such a blessing and curse that you can't talk to people face to face because I'm spreading the anyone spreading these messages.
对吧？
Right?
而你接收到了这些信息，你可以选择将其视为'哇，这太棒了'。
And you're getting that, and you could either take that as like, oh, like, this is great.
我现在可以自助了。
I can help myself now.
或者你也可以选择攻击那个说话的人，因为当你不用直视对方时，攻击他人会变得更容易。
Or you could take that and, like, attack the person who who said it because it's easier to attack someone when you're not actually looking at them.
所以这真的很疯狂，因为我认为我们的社会并没有真正理解这一点。
So it's just really crazy because I don't think our society really understands.
我自己也几乎不明白这意味着什么，而且我一直在寻找更好的方式来理解这个主题——我们不再面对面交流了。
I I barely understand what it means, and I'm always looking for ways to better understand the topic of, like, we're not looking at each other.
那么这意味着什么呢？
So what does that mean?
你认为长期解决方案应该是什么？
And what do you think the solution to that is long term?
当我们甚至无法面对面相见时，如何才能让社会更具凝聚力？
How do we get greater cohesion in our society when we can't even see each other face to face?
是啊。
Yeah.
我认为这更多是关于意识的话题，因为我觉得这才是解决很多问题的答案
Think it's just a more I'm on the topic of awareness because that's really I feel like that's the answer to a lot of
这就是游戏规则。
It's the game.
是的，确实如此。
Yeah, it is.
所以要传播这种意识。
So spreading that awareness.
即使有人攻击你，也要保持镇定并继续传递这个信息。
And if people attack you, maintaining composure and continuing to spread that message.
关键就是传播这个信息并忠于这个理念。
So it's just spreading that message and staying true to that message.
我想补充你刚才说的另一点：当你试图解读一个你看不到表情的人时，很容易误解他们的意思。
And I would add on to another thing you said is that when you're trying to read someone else when you can't see their face, it's very easy to misinterpret what they're saying.
再次100%同意。
Again 100%.
这种意识是必要的——你需要退后一步思考，而我更倾向于从积极角度解读事物。
Awareness is necessary where it's like, you need to take a step back and see well, I prefer to read things from a positive angle.
我想这能帮我更好地应对吧。
That just helps me cope with it, guess.
不过确实，退一步想想他们说的话背后是否有善意。
But yeah, it's a step back, see if they have a good intention behind what they're saying.
然后你可以选择展开讨论，礼貌地表达不同意见，或者干脆置之不理。
And then you can either go into a discussion where you respectfully disagree or just forget about it.
对吧？
Right?
比如直接划走。
Like scroll on.
你说你总是从积极的角度看问题，愿意相信他人。
You said you see things from the positive perspective and give people the benefit of the doubt.
一直都是这样吗？
Has that always been the case?
如果不是的话，你是怎么培养出这种心态的？
And if so, like, if it hasn't been the case, how did you develop that?
是的。
Yeah.
所以事实绝对不是这样。
So it definitely has not been the case.
比如有段时间，尤其是我刚开始的时候，总觉得别人在含沙射影地议论我。
Like, there were some times, especially when I first started that I thought people were subtweeting me, just writing stuff.
我当时就觉得，这肯定是在针对我发布的内容。
And I'm like, this has to be something about what I put out.
但我敢保证根本不是。
But I guarantee it wasn't.
但我以前会把这些话当真。
But I used to read things.
有些内容，甚至那些我不认为是影射我的，也会让我纠结好几个小时。
And some of them, even the ones where I didn't think of it as a subtweet, it just kind of stuck with me for a few hours.
我会一直反复琢磨。
And I'd be thinking about it.
我会生气一会儿，直到重新回到当下。
And I'd be pissed for a little bit until I came back to the now.
但我突然忘记要说什么了。
But I lost my train of thought.
能再重复一遍问题吗？
What was the question one more time?
抱歉。
Sorry.
不，没关系。
No, you're good.
说实话我自己也不记得问题了。
I was just, I honestly don't remember the question.
很好。
Nice.
那我们就随心所欲地聊吧。
So we'll go in any direction we want.
播客的美妙之处就在于，我们可以随心所欲地探索任何话题，随时展开讨论。
That's the beauty of a podcast is like, we go in any place we want and anytime we want.
你明白吗？
You got it?
我明白了。
I got it.
好的。
Okay.
所以当有人...我从来不是那种喜欢回复别人的人。
So when someone so I have never really been the person that likes to reply to people.
对吧？
Right?
所以即使有什么事情让我生气，我通常也不会回复。
So if something does make me angry, like I wouldn't reply anyways.
这种情绪会一直萦绕在我心头，让我有点恼火。
It just kind of stick with me and I'd get a little angry.
但我绝不会成为那种既不愿露脸，又说些可能让自己后悔的话的人。
But I'd never be the person that I just don't like putting my face out there and, like, saying something that I'll probably regret.
但现在我不得不回复别人了。
But now I kind of have to reply to people.
其实，我现在挺享受这种互动的。
Like, I enjoy it a lot.
我现在很喜欢和人交流。
I enjoy talking with people now.
不过，对，这就是主要的变化。
But, yeah, that's the main thing.
你刚说你以前不喜欢回复别人？
So you said you don't like replying to people, like, or you didn't.
那你当初是怎么在推特上和人互动的？既然你都不爱回复兄弟。
How did you then connect with people on Twitter if you didn't like replying man.
是啊。
Yeah.
这真的很难。
It was really hard.
我知道大家都告诉我，你需要建立人脉。
I knew that everyone told me, you need a network.
你需要主动接触他人，结交朋友等等。
You need to reach out to people and make friends and all that stuff.
而我长期以来都没有这样做。
And I didn't for the longest time.
我只是在一旁观察，对那个人有自己的看法。
I just kind of sit back and I'd have my own views on the person.
在那之前确实如此，直到后来——我很确定自己甚至不是主动发起任何事或试图摆脱那种状态的人。
And that was really it until I got I'm pretty sure I wasn't even the person to initiate anything or try to get myself out of that.
更多是别人主动联系我，问我想不想加入某个团体或参与类似的事情。
It was more so people reaching out to me, seeing if I wanted to be in a group or other things like that.
然后事情就像滚雪球一样发展起来了。
And then it kind of just snowballed from there.
我克服了那种恐惧。
And I got over that fear.
我不确定是否该称之为恐惧，但对我来说，在网上与人交谈已经变得很自然了。
I don't know if I'd call it a fear, but it became more normal to me to just have conversations with people online.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
这真是个奇怪的概念，从生物学或进化论角度来说，我们本不该在互联网上与人交谈。你在现实生活中也是这样吗？
It is such an odd concept, like, that we're not biologically or evolutionarily, like, supposed to do is, like, talk to people on the Internet or, like, are you also that way in in person?
你在这方面有相似之处吗？
Are you similar from that respect?
你的网络形象和现实形象有什么不同？
Or how does your online persona differ from your in person persona?
是的。
Yeah.
现实生活中我是个相当内向的人。
I'm a pretty reserved dude in real life.
我平时非常随性，总是保持禅意状态。
I'm pretty laid back, zenned out all the time.
比如你和我朋友聊天时，会发现我基本是最佛系的人，直到我们开始讨论我特别热衷的话题。
Like, you you talk to my friend and, like, yeah, I'm just the most zenned out dude until we start talking about something that I'm super passionate about.
那时我的眼睛会突然发亮，能滔滔不绝讲上几个小时。
Then I'll get extremely my eyes light up and I'll talk for hours.
但日常生活中，我基本都很佛系、平静，某种程度上算是内向。
But just like normal day to day, I'm pretty zenned out, calm, reserved in a sense.
而且我觉得我的网络形象和现实中的我相当一致。
And I do feel like my online persona reflects my in person my in persona quite a bit.
不过我开始更多地与人互动了。
But I have started to interact with people a lot more.
我一直都有和评论我内容的人互动。
I've always interacted with people that comment on my stuff.
但在其他人方面，我确实交了些朋友。
But in terms of other people, I've made friends.
我和他们通过Zoom之类的平台交流过。
I've talked to them over Zoom or something like that.
一旦熟悉了对方是谁，能产生共鸣，就能像回复好友一样轻松地展开对话。
And in that sense, once I know who they are and can vibe with them in a sense, then it's easy to just reply and have a conversation like you would a good friend.
就是这样。
That's really it.
是啊。
Yeah.
有哪些话题能让你兴奋到停不下来，可以滔滔不绝讲上几个小时？
What are some of those topics that light you up that you can't stop talking about for hours?
推特。
Twitter.
上面发生的事情太多了。
There's so much that goes on.
我能聊上好几天。
I could talk days about it.
比如当那些部落战争之类的事情发生时，我会像描述战场一样向朋友们解释。
Like, when there's those, like, tribal wars or whatever is going on, like, I'll explain it to my friends and, like, as a battle scene.
他们就会说，老兄，你整天在推特上干什么呢？
And they'll be like, dude, what are you, what are you doing on Twitter?
推特到底是什么？
What is Twitter?
是啊，这些话题总是聊起来很有趣。
And yeah, that's always fun to talk about.
主要是我正在做的事情，商业啊、灵修啊、举重健身之类的。
Just what I'm building, really, business stuff, spirituality stuff, weightlifting, gym, stuff like that.
对。
Yeah.
我太喜欢了，老兄。
I love it, man.
这次对话真的非常愉快。
This has been a lot of fun for this conversation.
在我们结束之前，你还有什么想提到的其他话题吗？或者有什么想探讨的内容？
What do you have anything else to mention before we wrap it up and come to a close in terms of just any topics you'd like to explore or anything like that?
我确实有一个最近一直在思考的话题。
I do have one that's like I've been thinking about quite a bit recently.
其实我在这次通话前一小时刚在Instagram上发过，就是关于万物皆可迭代的观点。
And I actually posted it on Instagram before, like an hour before this call, is about how everything is just iteration.
如果现在要总结我的哲学观——说起来挺有意思，我刚刚才在推特上发过我的个人哲学。
If I were to now, like after this podcast, if I were to distill my philosophy, which is also funny because I literally just posted on Twitter my personal philosophy.
就像列了个清单那样。
It was like a list of things.
但如果要提炼我的核心理念，关于如何获得精彩充实的人生，那就是迭代。
But if I were to distill my personal philosophy of like what I think leads to a great and fulfilling life, it would be iteration.
如果某件事行不通，就改变它，提升认知，然后继续前进。
Like if something isn't working, change it and get better and awareness.
真的就是这样。
Just that's really it.
就是这么简单。
It is that simple.
对吧？
Right?
就像是迭代意识。
It's like iteration awareness.
如果有人能从这期播客中学到什么，那就是这个了。
And if and if anyone will take something away from this podcast, they'll be able to take that away.
只需不断调整变化，开始觉察周围环境，觉察自己的每个行为，觉察生活的方方面面。
Just keep on changing things up and start to become aware of your surroundings, aware of your every action, and aware of of life in general.
Dan Ko，老兄，这次对话真的太愉快了。
Dan Ko, my man, this has been an absolute pleasure.
感谢你的参与。
Thank you for coming on.
大家在哪里可以找到更多关于你的内容？
Where can people find more from you?
我相信他们都很想了解。
I'm sure they want it.
是的。
Yeah.
首先，非常感谢你的邀请。
Well, first off, thank you for having me.
这次对话真的太棒了。
That's this has been amazing.
这真的让我思考了很多，我非常珍视并享受这个过程。
That really made me think, which I value and truly enjoy.
所以谢谢你。
So thank you.
推特上，大多数账号都是@the danco。
Twitter, most most ats, most handles at the danco.
其实我在很多其他平台也很活跃。
That's really I'm into many other places.
是的。
And yeah.
也许未来会考虑保持YouTube或其他平台的持续更新。
Maybe maybe being consistent with YouTube or something down the road.
但目前主要还是Twitter。
But right now, it's mainly just Twitter.
另外我最近在Instagram上也保持稳定更新，所以也可以关注我的Instagram，两个平台账号都是danco。
And then I've been being consistent with Instagram, so I'll say Instagram, both at the danco.
太棒了。
I love it.
大家应该去关注一下。
And you guys should check that out.
这些信息都会放在节目备注里，网址是dannymiranda.com/podcast。
And those will be in the show notes at danny miranda dot com slash podcast.
再次感谢你，Dan。
Thank you, Dan, again.
感谢你的美言，谢谢你的到来。
Appreciate the kind words, thanks for being here.
谢谢你，兄弟。
Thank you, man.
美丽的听众们。
Beautiful people.
以上就是我与Dan Coe的对话。
That was my conversation with Dan Coe.
如果你喜欢这期节目，请在Twitter上@HeyDannyMiranda告诉我。
If you enjoyed this episode, let me know on Twitter at Hey Danny Miranda.
也欢迎订阅我的每周通讯。
Feel free also to subscribe to my weekly newsletter.
那叫《周二宝藏》。
That's Tuesday treasure.
你可以在dannymiranda.com/tuesday找到它，我会在那里每天更新我发现的最酷的东西。
You could find that at dannymiranda.com/tuesday where I just update you guys about the coolest things that I find on a daily basis.
感谢收听，我们下期再见。
Thank you for listening, and I'll see you guys in the next one.
祝好。
Peace.
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