最重播时刻：如何在任何场合展现魅力并占据优势 - 查理·霍珀特

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Potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations.

第六点。

Number six.

第六点。我们之前说过这一点。率先人性化互动。

Number six. We've said this one before. Go first in humanizing the interaction.

人性化互动？

Humanizing the interaction?

是的。也就是说，当你和一群人在一起时，总有一个预期的社交规范，对吧？而这个规范通常比人们希望的要少。就像你之前描述的那样：我希望我的员工能触及真正的问题所在。

Yes. Which is to say, whenever you're with a group of people, there is an expected social norm. Right? And it is usually less than people wish that it was. It's the thing that you described earlier is, I wish that my employees would get to what's really going on.

这就是能够成为第一个——就像我讲我兄弟的故事那样——开关于龙形名牌的玩笑，对吧？这让活动中的每个人都变得更有趣。他们现在都想开玩笑，都想玩得开心。这就是能够率先给予赞美。

And it's the ability to be the first one, like I told the story about my brother, to crack the joke about the dragon name tag. Right? And that that made everybody in the event funnier. They now they all want to crack jokes, and they all want to be playful. It's the ability to give a compliment first.

有时候人们担心如果太过于赞美会破坏他们的地位。我们确实讨论过，在互动的开始阶段，建立乐趣、信任和尊重是有用的，但之后可以尽情表达，对吧？先是赞美，然后是脆弱性，对吧？

Sometimes people are afraid that it'll disrupt their status if they're too complimentary. And we did talk about how at the beginning of an interaction, it's useful to establish fun, trust, respect, but then feel free to pour it on. Right? Compliments and then vulnerability. Right?

率先分享脆弱的事情。当然，在创伤倾泻和不顾对方是否愿意与你同行就一味倾诉之间有一条微妙的界线。但是，是的，深入你内心未解决的、痛苦的、或者你正在努力但不确定的事情——伙计，你会率先迈出那一步吗？这样一来，整个房间的氛围都会转变。就像每个人都在说：哦，我也是。

Going first, sharing the vulnerable thing. There's a fine line, of course, between trauma dumping and just outpouring without checking if the other person is with you and wanting to go there with you. But, yeah, to dive into the thing that is unsettled in you, or that hurts, or that you're working on and you're not sure about, man, will you go there first? It's like the room transforms around that. It's like everyone's like, oh, me too.

是的。我也在挣扎。是的。我也希望我们能多笑一笑。是的。

Yeah. I'm also struggling. Yeah. I also wish we could laugh more. Yeah.

我也真的很欣赏那个人的时尚品味，但不想显得奇怪所以没说。所以当你率先让互动变得人性化时，这恰恰就是领导力的精髓。

I also am really I love that person's sense of style, but didn't wanna be weird and say so. So when you go first in humanizing the interaction, it it is it is the essence of leadership.

分享你的不完美之处。

Sharing your imperfections.

我

I

我在你的一个视频里看到过这个。这就是你所说的意思吧？愿意展露自己盔甲上的裂缝。

saw this in one of your videos. That's kind of what you're talking about there, right? It's been willing to show the chinks in your own armor.

是的。很多人像我一样，认为魅力就是要看起来像自己崇拜的某个人。但他们不知道那个人内心的对话，对吧？

Yes. It is. I think a lot of people like me have an idea that charisma is looking like someone else that they admire. And they don't know that person's internal dialogue. Right?

他们不知道对方内心所有的挣扎。而当你从自己的真实状态开始时——比如有人会问我如何应对焦虑？我给出的建议之一，也是我在这个播客中多次实践过的，就是把它说出来。比如：我来这里之前感到紧张。如果某种情绪在你内心涌现，而你觉得难以启齿，不妨冒险一试。

They don't know all the internal questions going on inside of them. And when instead you can start with where you are, which so people will ask me, how do I deal with anxiety? And one of the things that I've said, and I've done it a handful of times on this podcast, is speak to it. Like, I felt nervous when I was coming in here. Like, if the thing comes up inside of you and it feels like you can't say it, give it a risk.

说出来。这往往能创造出意想不到的深度连接。

Say it. It often creates a depth of connection that that you wouldn't be anticipating.

那幽默呢？变得有趣？

What about humor? Being funny?

变得有趣？我们还没讨论过这个，但我认为有五种魅力类型：高度信念型、真诚型、幽默型、共情型和活力型。信念型的人就像信念风暴，遇到你就能征服你。比如康纳·麦格雷戈——

Being funny? So we haven't talked about this, but there's I think about charismatic types of people. The five types that I think of are high conviction, authentic, funny, empathetic, and energetic. And so basically, conviction are people that they're that belief storm that when they encounter you, they just win. That's Conor McGregor.

他19岁时就满脸青春痘却眼神坚定地说要成为世界冠军。还有史蒂夫·乔布斯。他的高管迈克·斯科利的故事（不知道你是否熟悉）——你知道乔布斯对他说了什么吗？

Like, he's 19 years old, pimple faced guy saying he's gonna be a champion of the world without a waver in his eye. Steve Jobs. The story of Mike Scully, who was one of his chief officers who came and worked for him. Don't know if you're familiar with it. Do you know what he said to him?

他说了什么？

What did he say?

所以他们正在开会，斯卡利不会参加。然后他说，你是想余生都卖调味糖，还是想跟我一起改变世界？

So they're having a meeting, Scully's not going to join. And he says, Do you want to sell flavored sugar for the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?

斯卡利当时是在百事公司吗？

And Scully was at Pepsi at the time?

是的。他在百事公司。然后他说，哇，这很有分量。所以这种信念——我要改变世界，以及背后那种坚定不移的态度，就是高度确信。

Yeah. He was at Pepsi. And so he says, Ugh. That's big. And so there's this belief that I'm going to change the world and this solidness behind it, that's high conviction.

唐纳德·特朗普就是高度确信。对吧？他输掉选举，又不承认输掉选举，对吧？那种他一定会赢的确定性水平简直到了另一个层次。所以这是一种魅力类型。

Donald Trump is high conviction. Right? He loses election, doesn't lose elections, right? It's a level of certainty that he's going win that is just next level. So that's one type of charisma.

这种力量极其强大。但也有缺点。它可能难以接纳反馈。我想你在康纳·麦格雷戈身上也看到了这一点。你知道，当你培养高度确信时，在生活中保留一些能够倾听、能够接纳反馈的领域也非常重要。

It's incredibly powerful. There's downsides to it. It can be difficult to integrate feedback. And I think you've seen that with Conor McGregor. You know, it's when you develop high conviction, it's also really important to have some areas of your life where you're able to listen, and we're able to integrate feedback.

总之，还有真诚型。我认为特朗普在一定程度上也有这种特质。

Anyway, there's the authentic type. This is I think Trump has a degree of this as well.

这是第二种，对吧？

This is number two, right?

真诚型？是第二种。但我的方式是……我想这是一种与特朗普不同的真诚，即我完全相信这个人会在我面前说出他们的真实想法，无论我喜欢与否。我认为乔·罗根就是靠这个火起来的。就像，如果乔不同意那个人的观点，他不会粗鲁对待对方，但你会……你会知道他的不同意见。对吧？

Authentic? It's number two. But the way that I'm It's a different kind of authenticity, I suppose, than Trump, which is I trust this person exactly to say what they think in front of me, whether I like it or I don't. And I think Joe Rogan got big off the back of This was the Like, if Joe disagrees with that guy, he's not going to be rude to him, but you're to You're going to know about it. Right?

他会邀请他想邀请的喜剧演员朋友上节目，就因为他想邀请。当你长时间保持真诚，就会建立起不可动摇的信任。就像，我见过这个人做一些可能会损害我们关系的事情，但依然继续前行。所以我知道他们的行为不是为了取悦我。我可以相信他们说的话，相信他们做的事，并且可以依赖他们。

He is going to have his comedian friend on that he wants to have on because he wants to have him on. And when you do authenticity over a period of time, it creates just unshakable trust. Like, I've seen this person do things that could be damaging to our relationship and just continue to move forward. So I know that they're not trying to please me with their behavior. And I can trust the things that they say and trust the things that they do, and I can rely on them.

我觉得可以放心依赖他们。这是真诚型。第三种是有趣型。这些人就是喜剧演员。和他们在一起很有趣。

I feel safe to rely on them. That's the authentic type. Third type is funny. These are these are comedians. These people are just fun to be around.

比如，你和他们一起玩，他们全程都在讲笑话。他们带来轻松感。其他人都在一本正经地说话，而他们会带来一些非字面的东西。所以任何喜剧演员都符合这一点。

Like, you hang out with them. They're cracking jokes the whole time. They bring a levity. Everyone else is talking literally, and they're gonna bring in something that is just non literal. So any comedian is gonna fit this.

你是凯文·哈特，或者随便谁，任你挑选。共情型。对我来说，奥普拉是典范，但我觉得你已经成为了播客界的奥普拉，太他妈厉害了。

You're Kevin Harts. You're you're whoever. Take your pick. Empathetic. To me, Oprah is the paragon, but I think you have you have become the Oprah of the podcasting world many so fucking you.

那是

That's a

巨大的赞美。

massive compliment.

但共情型的人在一对一交流中表现得非常非常好。他们帮助他人感到被看见，对吧？他们以真诚的态度提问，让对方分享可能在许多其他群体中不会分享的事情。我们都深切渴望能安全地分享自己。

But empathetic people are they do really, really well one on one. And they they help other people to feel seen. Right? They ask a question with a sincerity that makes the other person share the thing that they might not have shared in many other groups. And we all deeply want to feel safe to share ourselves.

但我们没有，因为我们身处更嘈杂的群体或有各种原因。所以当我们接触到共情型的人时，他们可能话不多，但天哪，我们离开时会喜欢那个人。感觉我们进行了一次很棒的对话，需要再来一次。最后一种是活力型。

But we don't, because we're in louder groups or all different sorts of things. So when we get in contact with an empathetic person, they might not talk very much, but man, we leave liking that person. Like, we had a great conversation. We need to do that again. And then the last one is your energetic type.

这可能是最容易添加的一种。我想到早期的威尔·史密斯，想到人们走上脱口秀的方式，比如他们会跳着舞登上吉米·法伦的舞台之类的。这种人可能幽默不算机智，但他们让人微笑，因为他们给互动带来的能量比你预期的要高那么一两度，对吧？

This is probably the easiest one to add. I think of early Will Smith. I think of the way that people walk onto talk shows, where they would come onto Jimmy Fallon dancing onto the stage or something like that. This is an individual who may not be very witty with their humor, but they make people smile because the energy that they bring to an interaction is just like two degrees higher than you would expect. Right?

所以他不需要搞笑，可以讲笑话，但在婚礼上第一个上舞池的人，你知道，就是投入其中，那就是活力型。我觉得杰克·布莱克就是有这种特质的人。他很有趣，能讲笑话，但他做每件事时带来的能量才是卖点。

So he doesn't need to be funny, can crack a joke, but the guy who's first on the dance floor at the wedding is like, you know, committed to the thing, that's energetic. And I think Jack Black is someone who has a comment. He is funny. Like, he can crack a joke. But the energy that he brings to everything he does is what sells it.

这来自于对表演的投入，对吧？你不会像这样开始跳舞，然后环顾四周发现没人喜欢就停下来。是的。如果你能维持一种比房间里的人高一两度的能量、热情和积极性，起初人们可能会犹豫，但随后他们就会加入进来。

So this comes from commitment to the bit. Right? You don't, like, start off dancing like this and then look around and realize nobody likes it and stop. Yeah. It's if you're if you're able to sustain a level of energy, enthusiasm, and positivity that is one or two degrees higher than the people in the room, at first, there's like, I don't know, and then they they join in.

因为每个人都想放松、跳舞、感觉更好，或者至少见证别人这样做。而当全身心投入时，才能真正、真正地奏效。

Because everybody wants to relax and dance and feel better, or at least to witness people doing that. And when it's committed, that's when it really, really works.

我该如何运用魅力、肢体语言和人际交往技巧的理念来提升我的工作前景，无论是在新工作的面试场合，还是在我寻求晋升的时候？

How do I use this idea of charisma and body language and interpersonal skills to improve my prospects in work, whether that's in an interview setting for a new job, or if I'm looking for a promotion?

所以关于面试，我首先想到并培训人们思考的是：面试并不是从你走进房间、面对那位拿着你简历的人开始的。它从你离开家时就开始了——如果你打优步，你需要和司机聊天。对吧？你需要热身，需要让自己感到舒适。

So the first thing that I always thought about with interviews and trained people to think about was the interview does not start when you land in the room with that person who has got the piece of paper in front of them with your resume. It starts when you leave your house, if you're taking an Uber, you need to talk to the Uber driver. Right? You need to get warm. You need to get comfortable.

你需要让声带活动起来，你需要充满活力。当你进入大楼时，如果是一栋大型建筑并有保安，再多说一句话，记住。嘿，怎么样？这里看到很多新面孔吗？

You need to get those vocal cords moving. You need to be dynamic. When you enter the building, if it's a large building and has a security guard, one more sentence, remember. Hey, how's it going? You see a lot of fresh faces in here?

你知道吗？是的。希望这不是你最后一次见到我。诸如此类的话。这只会让你感觉更自在一点。

You know? Yeah. Hopefully, this is not the last time you see me. That type of a thing. It just makes you feel a little bit more comfortable.

与其复习你认为需要了解的任何技术内容，不如在面试前放下这些。那些东西要么已经在脑子里，要么就没有，比如提前十五到三十分钟。然后你上楼，有秘书，同样的事情。有其他候选人，同样的事情。等到你坐在那个人对面时，你已经热身好了。

Instead of reviewing whatever technical stuff that you think you need to know, that needs to be dropped before the interview. That's either in there or it's not, like fifteen-thirty minutes in advance. Then you go upstairs, there's a secretary, same thing. There's other candidates, same thing. By the time you sit down across from that person, you're warm.

你已经准备好了，并且你不是从零开始去成为一个有吸引力的人，因为总会有那些初始问题。你顺利进来了吗？你做这个了吗？只需多一点，多一点额外的东西，它会与情境相协调，但效果会显现出来。

You're ready to go, and you're not starting from zero in order to be an engaging human, because there are going to be those initial questions. Did you get in all right? Did you do this? Just a little bit, a little bit extra, and it's going to be attuned to the situation, but it'll come through.

而且你在来的路上已经打开了几个话题。

And you've opened a couple of tabs on the way here.

没错。完全正确。比如，你怎么进来的？然后可以说，是的，我在门口遇到了里克。他太棒了。

Exactly. Exactly. Like, how'd you get in? And be like, yeah, I met Rick at the door. He's awesome.

对吧？就像，那会有帮助的。所以这是第一件事。然后在面试中，你不知道会被问到什么问题。但如果你能把被问到的问题转化为故事形式，并有一个开头、中间和结尾，且情节呈上升、下降、再上升的曲线。

Right? Like, that's that's gonna help. So that's the number one thing. And then in interviews, there's a you don't know what questions you're gonna get asked. But if you can take what you're gonna get asked and put it into a story format and have a beginning, middle, and an end that has an up, down, up sort of curve to it.

我的意思是，他们会问：告诉我你在职业生涯中真正挣扎过的一件事。如果你提前思考过自己的职业生涯，并且有三个重要的转折点——比如你接手了这个项目、辞去那份工作转到这里、以及做了另一件事。然后你反向构思这些故事。所以故事要有冲突性：先说明我在某公司工作，然后出现了问题，接着你要激化这个问题。

And what I mean is that they're going say, tell me about something that you really struggled with in your career. And if in advance you have thought through your career and you have the three big moments that happened to you, which is you took over this project, you quit this job and moved to this one, and you did this other thing. And then you backwards figure out the story of those. And so the story has this agitating You establish that I was working at this company, and then there was a problem. Then you agitate the problem.

情况非常糟糕，没人能解决，没人能找到办法。于是我做了X、Y、Z，结果事情进展顺利，还带来了其他积极影响。你需要准备三到五个这样的核心故事。虽然不知道具体会问什么，但我保证你能将这五个故事灵活套用。这样即使遇到没准备过的问题，也不会措手不及，因为总有一个故事能契合面试中的匹配度考察环节。

It was really bad, and no one could solve it, no one could figure it out. And so I did x, y, and z, and as a result, it turned out really well, and then this other thing happened. You get three to five of those things that you know are your core stories. You have no idea what questions are coming, but I promise you, you're going to slot those five things into it. So you don't need you will not be surprised in the moment if there's a question that you haven't prepared for or heard, because probably there's a story when it comes this is the fit portion of the interview that you can just you have your story ready.

这些故事能展现公司看重的任何品质：我的坚韧、勤奋、行业认知和团队协作能力。这些都已融入你的故事中。还有一个技巧：面试结束时总会被问到“你对我们有什么问题吗？”。我从面试官角度发现，有人会问些敷衍的问题，或直接说“没有”，这完全是浪费机会。

And it demonstrates any of the values that you think this company wants, which is I'm tenacious, I work hard, I know the industry, and I can work well with people. That's built into your stories. And then one tip is that at the end of an interview, there's always that moment where they say, Do you have any questions for us? And what I've seen sitting on the other side of the table is people either ask a question they don't really have, because they feel like they're supposed to, or they say, No, I don't have any questions. And it's just a missed opportunity.

这里要归功于我的联合创始人，他提出的这个问题出乎我意料，却获得了最积极的反馈——甚至有人因此获得工作。问题是：假设这次面试很成功，一年后我被录用，当您回顾时——

And so this one, have to give credit to my co founder. He came up with, and this is one of the things I did not anticipate. I got the most positive responses. Like, I got the job because of this question type of a thing. And the question is, okay, so let's say that this interview went really well, and a year from now, I got the job and you're looking back.

我需要做到哪些事情，才会让您觉得聘用我是正确的决定？在这个岗位上我需要取得什么成就？通常对方会表示欣赏，认为这是个好问题。它能产生多重效果：

What would I have had to have done in order for you to feel like it was a good decision? Like, what things will I have had to have done in that role? And so typically, person goes, I like that. That's a really good question. And it does a handful of things.

第一，让对方想象面试成功并录用你的场景；第二，他们会明确告诉你胜任该岗位需要做到什么。这正是所有老板期望的——希望员工主动了解如何出色完成工作。这个原则同样适用于加薪沟通，如果你想提前获得加薪：

One, you've gotten them to imagine the interview going really well and them hiring you, right? And then second, they're going to lay out for you exactly what you need to do in the role to excel. And that is something that every boss wants. It's like, I want you interested in knowing what I need from you in order to do a good job. And you could take that same principle, and you could bring it into conversations if you want to get a raise sooner than you think you were going to.

可以直接说：我希望加快加薪进程，但想确保这完全符合您的预期。那么在未来六到八个月，我需要做到什么程度，才会让您觉得加薪是毋庸置疑的价值回报？对方就会告诉你具体目标。

To go in and say, hey, I'd like to get a raise. You can make it clear. I'd like to do it faster than usual, but I want to make sure that it's totally worth it for you. So six months from now or eight months from now, in order for me to get this raise, what would I have had to have done for it to be a no brainer, obvious to you, that this was valuable? And then they will go and tell you the things that you could do.

如果公司直接拒绝，可能你并不想在那里工作。但他们会给你明确路径。按这些要求执行并保持沟通，你就能进入晋升快车道。关键不是你被动执行，而是——可能你本来就会做这些事，但如果不提前沟通，在大多数情况下他们不会主动给你加薪。

And if it's a company that says, no, can't, maybe you don't want to work there, But they'll just give you the playbook. And then do those things, keep up with that person, and you're now off track for promotions. Right? You're not just doing whatever they say. And then the bummer is you might have done those things anyway, but if you don't have that conversation in advance, not they're going give you a raise in most cases.

这很有趣，因为适用于任何领域的销售场景。比如健身教练初见客户时可以问：六个月后，我需要做到什么才能让您满意？或者营销公司在合作初期问客户：如果十二个月后我们仍在合作且您非常满意，那会是因为我们做到了什么？对方会明确说出期望待遇和标准。是的。

So interesting, because this could be applied to anybody in any role that is selling anything. I'm thinking of a personal trainer who meets their client on the first day and says, six months from now, what would I have done to have made you happy? Or I'm thinking of marketing industries, agencies, turning to their clients at the start and saying, if we're still working together in twelve months and you're really happy, what would I have done? And they'll lay out exactly how they want to be treated and their expectations. Yes.

这样你就能达到并超越他们的期望。

So you can meet and exceed them.

是的。没错。这表明你在最初那一刻是在乎的。

Yes. Yeah. And it shows that you care in that initial moment.

我浏览了你频道上一些有史以来表现最好的视频。有趣的是，我能从中看到一些主题。我发现好几个表现最好的视频都有相似的主题。其中一个非常突出的主题是“让人立刻讨厌你的五个习惯”。

I went through some of your best performing videos of all time on your channel. And it was interesting that I could see themes in them. I could see several of the best performing videos had similar themes. And one of the really prominent themes was five habits that make people instantly dislike you.

那是一个关于布丽·拉尔森的视频。在《复仇者联盟》和《惊奇队长》那段时间，她有一系列采访相当让人疏远。她做的一些事情，天哪，比如非要赢得每一次玩笑交锋。他们在讨论，比如说，谁是最强大的复仇者。对吧？

So that's a video about Brie Larson. And around the time of the Avengers, Captain Marvel thing, she had a string of interviews that were pretty alienating to people. Some of the things that she did, goodness, it was having to win every joke exchange. They're talking about, for instance, who's the most powerful Avenger. Right?

他们彼此之间有点开玩笑的意思。比如，嗯，雷神是最强大的。而她则采取了这种态度：嗯，实际上，我的角色能干掉你的。有一种“嗯，实际上”的特质。就像是，嗯，实际上，我会赢。

And they're sort of being playful with each other. Like, well, Thor is the most powerful. And she adopts this attitude of, well, actually, my character would kill yours. And there's a well, actually quality. It's like, well, actually, I would win.

实际上，我会赢。实际上，你的角色只是个凡人，而我会赢。这种事，一次可能还挺可爱，但如果有人非得在朋友间的每次玩笑中都占上风，那就变得令人沮丧了。所以我认为人们看到了这一点，也看到了剧组其他成员的一些反应。所以第一点就是，非得赢得每次玩笑交锋，非要压过别人一头，这样不好。

Actually, I would win. Actually, your character is just a mere mortal, and I would win. And it is, like, cute once, but it becomes frustrating to have someone have to win every banter exchange between friends. And so I think people saw that, and they saw some of the reactions of the cast. And so that's one, is, like, to have to win every banter exchange and have a burn that you come out on top of, not a good one.

她做的另一件事是以负面方式解读模棱两可的交流。例如，在我做的那个特定视频里，她参加了Wired的自动补全采访。有一个问题是，布丽·拉尔森锻炼吗？以一种至少对美国人来说没有明确传达讽刺的方式（也许对英国人不同，不知道，你们的文化代码不一样）。

Another one that she did is to interpret ambiguous communications negatively. So for instance, in this particular video that I did, she's on that Wired autocomplete interview. And there's one question that is, does Brie Larson work out? And in a way that doesn't, at least to Americans, clearly communicate sarcasm, maybe it's different to Brits, don't know. You guys have a different cultural code.

她说了类似这样的话：这是人身攻击吗？

She says something to the effect of like, is that a personal attack?

真的吗？

Really?

是的。然后她也没笑。而且她还有...所以那里有两种选择。你可以说“这是人身攻击吗？”然后你可以笑。

Yeah. And then she doesn't laugh. And she also so there's two options there. You could say, is that a personal attack? And then you could laugh.

对吧？或者你可以说“这是人身攻击吗？网上所有人都觉得我太胖了，就想针对我？我正在努力减肥呢。”就像，你可以一再坚持，直到很明显你是在荒谬地较真。

Right? Or you could say, is that a personal attack? Everyone on the Internet thinks that I'm so fat, just trying to jump on me? I'm trying to lose weight. Like, can you can double and triple down until it's clear that you're being absurd.

是的。

Yeah.

但她只说了一次，却显得极其防备。我常说的是，我们应该以善意的角度解读模糊的沟通。这一点很重要。就像如果你看过《足球教练泰德》这部剧，里面充满了这种例子。人们会走到他面前，我刚刚做了一个包含这个片段的视频，他在飞机上。

But she said it once, and it came through as hyper defensive. And the thing that I talk about is you want to interpret ambiguous communications charitably. This is a big one. This is one of like, if you've watched the show Ted Lasso, this is full of this. People will come up to him, and I just did a video that had this clip where he's on the airplane.

如果你了解泰德·拉索，他是个去英国的美国人，有人对他说，你要去执教我们的足球队，在英国。天啊，他们太差了。这肯定会很糟糕。你是个传奇。然后他回应说，嗯，你知道，我还没输过呢。

If you know Ted Lasso, he's an American guy going to England, and somebody says, you know, you're going to coach the football team, the soccer team for us, in England. Man, they're so bad. This is gonna go horribly. You're a legend. And then he responds, well, you know, I haven't lost yet.

他总是保持这种积极的态度。他接受那些模糊的沟通，并以优雅和魅力回应，而不是让事情变成争吵。这非常有效。这种对早期可能不太友好的模糊信息的有意误解，常常能让那些试图攻击你的人转变态度。

He's just got this general positive demeanor. He takes that ambiguous communication and responds with grace and charm, and doesn't make it a fight. That works so well. That purposeful misinterpretation of ambiguations early on that are maybe not the friendliest. This often will take people that are trying to take dicks at you and make them flip.

而如果某人只是社交上有些失准，这给了他们机会，不至于在互动中被贴上坏人的标签。所以这是她做错的另一点。

And in the case that somebody was just a bit socially miscalibrated, it gives them the opportunity to not be cast as the bad guy in the interaction. So that was something else that she did wrong.

有趣。另外，如果其他人也在观看这场互动，

Interesting. Also, if others are watching the interaction,

而且

and

如果你倾向于以善意的角度解读沟通，那个可能是在挖苦你的人会显得很可笑，而你很可能看起来相当不错。

if you have a bias towards interpreting the communication well, the person that was maybe taking a dig at you is going to look pretty ridiculous, and you're going to probably come off looking pretty good.

正是如此。正是如此。当我们看到人们用言语为自己辩护时，除了一些例外情况，比如当有人说要伤害你时，这传达了一种不安全和防备心理，就像，你为什么要为别人的意见辩护呢？

Exactly. Exactly. And we when we see people defend themselves against words, with with some exception, when somebody's, like, saying that they're gonna hurt you, it communicates an insecurity and a defensiveness, which is like, why do you need to defend yourself against the opinions of another?

对吧？就像特朗普那次，他说只针对罗西·欧唐纳。

Right? Like the Trump thing where he said about only Rosie O'Donnell.

是的。没错。就像，不需要为此辩护。这潜在地传达出这没什么大不了的。与其直接说'这没什么大不了'，你通过不辩护的方式间接表达了这一点。

Yes. Yeah. It's like, don't need to defend myself against this. And it subcommunicates that this is not a big deal. More than saying, that's not a big deal, you are subcommunicating that's not a big deal by not defending it.

这就是当我们真正感到自在时的反应。比如说，如果有人拿你完全不感到不安的事情开玩笑。我不知道具体是什么。可能是你的事业成功之类的。他们过来然后说，'嘿，史蒂文，最近日子不好过啊'。

And that's what we do when we actually feel comfortable. Let's say if somebody were to tease something that you're not at all insecure about. I don't know what it would be. Maybe your business success or something. They come in and like, well, you know, Steven, real struggling these days.

你会笑。你会接着往下说。有时候处理这种情况的方法是在针对你的笑话上再加一层，也就是在它基础上'是的，而且'。所以如果有人模棱两可地说，'是啊，史蒂文，这些生意最近不太顺利'，你可以回应，'天哪，老兄，你根本不知道。过去几周我头发都快抓掉了，事情简直一团糟'。

You're going to laugh. You're going to add on to it. And sometimes a way through this is to tag the joke that's made at your expense, which is to add a yes and on top of it. So if somebody ambiguous interpretation is saying, yeah, you know, Steven, these businesses just aren't working really well, you'd be like, oh my god, dude, you have no idea. I've been pulling my hair out over the last few weeks, just like things are falling apart around me.

你能这样做是因为，我猜，你对自己的事业成功程度感到非常自信。当你能...再次强调，当你开始察觉到某人的某种模式时，那是另一回事，需要采取不同的应对方式。但如果只是偶尔一次针对你的玩笑，加倍投入并让它变成你也参与的笑话通常非常非常有效。

You can do that because you, I'm assuming, feel very comfortable with your level of business success. And when you can Again, there is a difference when you start to sense a pattern in somebody, that is a different route that you want to take. But if it's just one banter thing that is at your expense, to double down and make it a joke that you're in on is often very, very powerful.

太有趣了。我想最后再问一个问题。你表现最好的视频之一标题是《像领导者一样说话，让人尊重你》。实际上，你有两个最受欢迎的视频都是关于像领导者一样说话、好好说话的，这让我觉得人们真的很想学习如何好好说话。对于那些觉得自己不擅长口头表达的人，你会给他们什么建议来像领导者一样说话？

Fascinating. I'm going to ask you one last One question on of your best performing videos is titled Speak Like a Leader, Make People Respect You. In fact, there was two of your top performing videos that were about speaking like a leader, speaking well, which is fascinating to me that people really want to learn how to speak well. What advice would you give to someone who doesn't feel like they're a good oral communicator on how to speak like a leader?

能够非字面地回答，并在互动中融入乐趣和笑话。能够在对话中触及价值观，这是我们讨论的很多内容，引导人们去关注他们真正想要连接的东西，而不是天气之类的话题，这也是其中的一部分。

The ability to answer non literally and bring in fun and jokes into the interaction. The ability to get to values in a conversation, which is a lot of the stuff that we talked about, to take people to the thing that they actually want to connect over versus the weather and all that sort of stuff is part of it.

你在思考时似乎也会停顿。有些人会稍微填补空白。

You seem to take a pause as well when you're thinking. Some people fill in the gaps a little bit.

是的，通常如此。我肯定也犯过这个错误。但如果你能用沉默取代任何填充词、任何依赖词。沉默是一种真空。而真空的酷之处在于它会吸引注意力到你身上。

Yeah, generally. And I'm sure I've made this mistake. But if you can replace any filler word, any crutch word that you have, with silence. Silence is a vacuum. And the cool thing about vacuums is that they pull attention to you.

我认为人们大大、大大低估了他们被允许的沉默时间。如果回顾我早期的视频，我严重低估了沉默的价值。我以为必须快速把所有内容说出来，超级有趣，才能保持很高的平均观看时长。但后来我观察到并学到，当你在讲故事时，学会了设置悬念的节奏点，所以故事中会有这样的台词，比如'你知道，前几天发生了最疯狂的事情'，对吧？

And I think people dramatically, dramatically underestimate the amount of silence they're they're afforded. If I look back actually at my early videos, I dramatically underestimated the value of silence. I thought that I had to get it all out there and be super interesting really fast in order to keep that AVD really, really high. And I've since seen and learned that when you have a story and you learn the beats where you've set up the mystery and so there's these these lines that you'll say in a story is like, you know, the craziest thing happened the other day. So I'm right?

就像，你...有这些钩子，你会凭直觉感觉到观众何时被吸引住了，尤其是在那时只需吸一口气或停顿一下。你不需要把所有这一切都想清楚，但这会成为第二天性。这非常有价值。我见过的方法是，当你录下自己讲一个故事，然后回看里面有多少'嗯'和'啊'。我看自己的播客时，我敢肯定你也有这种感觉。

Like, you you are there's there's these hooks, and you get an intuitive feel for where you've got the audience on the edge of their seat, and especially then to just take a breath or have a pause. You don't need to think all of this out, but that becomes second nature. That's very valuable. And it comes from the way that I've seen people do is when you record yourself, tell a story, and just watch back how many ums and uhs you have in it. When I watch my own podcasts, I'm sure you've felt this.

天啊，太可怕了。是的。你会开始看到自己的小习惯显现出来。

Oh my gosh. It's horrifying. Yeah. You begin to see your own little habits come through.

我说话时肢体语言重要吗？

Does body language matter when I'm speaking?

我认为是的。对，对。我通常会教人们几个要点，很多人会给自己设定一个小框框，比如他们可能会这样挥手，然后就有这种动作。

I think so. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple of things that I tend to teach people, which is a lot of people form a tiny little box for themselves, where maybe they'll move their hands like this, and they got this thing going on.

那些看不到你的人，你就像这样挥手，好像你——

People that can't see you're just kind of waving it like you're

我这样小幅转圈挥手，最重要的是我的手肘紧贴身体两侧。如果我抬起手肘，开始这样说话，比如要说'我兄弟在那边绿屋里'，然后我做手势，有两种方式：我可以手指离脸六英寸指向我兄弟的方向，或者我可以抬起整只手臂指向那边。你占据的空间，第一，很有吸引力。我们在很多视频中都谈到这一点，就是你不需要侵犯别人的空间，你需要完全占据自己的空间。

I'm kind of waving my hands in a little circular thing, and my elbows, most importantly, are pinned to my sides. If I lift my elbows off my sides, and I start talking a little bit like this, and if I was to say over here, and my brother's in the green room over there, and I gesticulate, there's two ways to gesticulate. I could take my finger, and I can point six inches from my face, the direction that my brother is, or I can lift my entire arm and point over there, The space that you fill is, one, captivating. This is something that we talk about in a lot of our videos, which is you don't need to invade other people's space. You need to fill your own completely.

当你完全占据自己的空间时，会更有吸引力。所以当你在舞台上时，用你整个臂展的宽度来做手势，比如'看，我知道房间这边的你们有这种感觉，但这边，对吧'，对比'我知道房间这边的你们认为我们必须这样做。但这边'，这中间有一种不适感会显现出来，对比把手肘从身体两侧抬起来。这会产生巨大的、巨大的差异。还能帮助你说话更大声，让你更有活力。

When you fill your space completely, it is much more captivating. So when you're on stage, to gesticulate with the the full width of your wingspan, like, look, I know you guys on this side of the room are feeling this, but over here, right, versus I know you guys on this side of the room think that we have to do this. But over here, it just there's a level of discomfort that is comes through in it versus get those elbows off the sides. It makes a huge, huge difference. Also helps you speak louder, makes you more dynamic.

我们还没谈到的最重要的事情是什么？观众此刻可能非常想知道。

What's the most important thing we haven't talked about that the audience are probably screaming to know at this exact moment in time?

关于自信，我看到真正帮助人们的一种心态是：没有上级。你进入工作场所，认为必须区别对待你的老板。或者你走进酒吧，认为必须区别对待那位美女。是的，存在地位差异，是的，我们以某种等级制度安排自己。但当你意识到——就像我在工作中意识到的那样，这也是为什么我能获得非周期加薪，为什么一切开始为我运转——你不是在处理角色。

When it comes to confidence, one of the mindsets that I see really help people is that there are no superiors. That you go into your workplace, and you think that you've got to treat your boss differently. Or you go into a bar, and you think you have to treat the beautiful woman differently. And yes, there is status, and yes, we arrange ourselves in sorts of hierarchies. But when you realize, as I did in my job, and this is why I got the raise off cycle, it's why everything started working for me, You're not dealing with roles.

你不是在处理投资者。你不是在处理美的化身。你是在与人打交道。而他们生命中最爱的人，他们最愿意为之付出的人，他们是通过与你和朋友相同的那些东西建立联系的。兴趣可能不同，但这些东西的根本主题是相同的。

You're not dealing with investors. You're not dealing with avatars of beauty. You are dealing with people. And the people that they love the most in their life, that they would do the most for, they connect with over the same things that you connect with your friends over. There's different interests, but the underlying themes of those things are the same.

他们喜欢做什么来娱乐，什么让他们充实，什么带给他们快乐，而不是看起来一丝不苟、完美无缺。所以，愿意犯那个错误——我看到这常常是缺乏自信的表现。而当我放下它，另一个朋友捡起它时，我经常看到这种情况。

What they love to do for fun, what fills them up, what brings them joy, not looking prim and proper and perfect. And so, like, a willingness to make that mistake is I see is often the absence of confidence. And when I have dropped it and another friend has picked it up, I see it all the time.

这回到了你之前说的说服与邀请的区别。不要试图说服别人，而是给他们建立连接的邀请。是的，是的。你刚刚听到的是上一期节目中被重播最多的一段内容。

It goes back to what you said about convincing versus invites. Don't convince people, give them invites to connect. Yeah. Yeah. What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode.

如果你想收听完整的那期节目，我已经在下方添加了链接。查看描述栏。谢谢。

If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.

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