1号省钱专家：别买房！把钱存银行只会让你更穷！

换个角度思考，AI实际上可能如何积极影响你的假设？

Just to flip that for a second, how could AI actually positively influence your hypothesis?

我对AI非常乐观。我认为人类会顺利度过这个阶段。经济爆发式增长时，我们可以找到将其惠及人类或社会的方式——无论我们想如何利用这些成果。我并不是悲观主义者。

I'm very positive about AI. I think humanity will come out of this just fine. I think economic growth that explodes is we can work a way of accreting it to to humans or society or whatever we wanna do with this. I'm not an am I doomer.

具体到比特币的价值和价格，人工智能如何能使其变得更加重要

Specifically on Bitcoin's value and price, how could AI make it even more important in

归根结底，人工智能需要两个输入。它需要——这基本上就是马斯洛需求层次理论的两样东西：算力和能源，而且它需要获得报酬。这些智能体不可能——你不可能让数十亿个智能体四处运行执行任务却不支付报酬。智能体会使用其他智能体。所以一个智能体会雇佣另外10个智能体来完成所有这些任务。

Well, in the end, an AI is a it requires two inputs. It requires it's it's Maslov's hierarchy of needs is basically two things, compute and energy, and it needs to be paid. These agents can't you can't build all these agents of billions of agents running around doing things without paying for them. And agents will use agents. So they will one agent will get another 10 agents to do all this task.

它们都必须获得报酬。而实现这一点的方式就是使用加密支付通道。

They're all gonna have to be paid. And the way of doing that is using crypto rails.

稳定币。

Stablecoins.

不管是稳定币还是其他形式，但整个加密支付通道，你知道，所有这些互联网新基础设施，区块链，正是其用武之地。

Whether it's stablecoins, whatever it is, but that whole crypto rail, you know, all of this new infrastructure for the Internet, the the blockchain, that's where it works.

通常，一家公司成功或失败的关键不在于其产品或战略，而在于内部人员。毕竟，'公司'一词的定义就是'一群人'，世界上一些最优秀的公司很大程度上都是由A级人才构建的——因为我要告诉你一个小秘密：当你雇佣一个A级人才时，他们会继续雇佣更多A级人才，形成良性循环。真正的挑战在于找到最初那几个A级人才。

Often, the difference between a company succeeding or failing isn't down to its product or strategy. It's down to the people on the inside. After all, the definition of the word company is group of people, and some of the best companies in the world have been largely built by a players because I'll let you in on a little secret. When you hire an a player, they go on to hire more a players, and it perpetuates. The challenge is finding those first few a players.

我大部分A级人才都是在LinkedIn找到的，他们是本节目的赞助商。LinkedNet提供我在其他地方找不到的人才，这些人才具备我所需的专业技能和文化契合度。每当我付费在LinkedIn推广职位时，我都能更快且当然更好地完成招聘。数据也支持这一点：相比免费发布相同职位，你实际上能获得三倍多的合格申请人。

I found the majority of mine on LinkedIn who are a sponsor of this show. LinkedIn provides talent I could not find anywhere else, talent with the necessary skills and culture fit that I'm looking for. Whenever I've paid to promote a role on LinkedIn, I've been able to hire faster and, of course, better. The data supports this too. You'll actually get three times more qualified applicants than if you posted the same role for free.

所以如果你想打造真正伟大的东西，你可以通过访问 linkedin.com/doac 免费发布职位来开始。那就是 linkedin.com/doac，你可以在那里免费发布你的职位。当然，适用条款和条件。你们中有人记得我在这个播客中与人类学家丹尼尔·利伯曼的对话吗？那是我们观看次数最多的对话之一，而那个对话中回放最多的时刻是我谈到这个产品的时候。

So if you're trying to build something truly great, you can get started by posting a job for free by visiting linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/doac, and you can post your role for free there. Terms and conditions, of course, apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time and the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product.

这就是我所说的Vivo Barefoot赤足鞋，它们显著减少了支撑，给我的脚提供了它们迫切需要的强化机会。如果你从这个播客中学到了什么，那可能是我们正生活在舒适危机中，在我们生活的所有时刻，我们都在做这样的权衡：是现在更舒适但未来更不适，还是现在稍微不那么舒适，但未来更强壮健康。对我来说，这就是选择穿赤足鞋。所以如果你想开始强化你的脚和身体，请访问 vivobarefoot.com/steven，结账时使用代码 steven b 20 即可享受 20% 的折扣。还附带一百天退款保证。

These are what I call Barefoot Shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. If you've learned anything from this podcast, it might be that we're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in our lives we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And for me that is the choice to wear barefoot shoes. So if you wanna start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot.com/steven, and you'll get 20% off when you use code steven b 20 at checkout. That also comes with a one hundred day money back guarantee.

你有什么可失去的？我想问你一个问题。是的。我跑去拿手机的原因是，是的。有个人联系了我，是我童年时就认识的。

What have you got to lose? I wanted to ask you a question. Yeah. The reason I went and got my phone is because Yes. I had someone contact me that I knew from my childhood.

曾经是我最好的朋友之一。

Used to be one of my best friends.

嗯。

Mhmm.

坦白说，他妈的有十年没跟他们说过话了。给我发了一条短信，他们发的短信是：我想听听你对这个的看法，因为我...我最后对他说，听着，你问错人了。我觉得你误解了我是谁。嗨，哥们。希望你一切都好。

Frankly, not spoke to them in fucking ten years. Sent me a text message, and the text message they sent me is I wanted to get your opinion on this because I I said I ended up saying to him, listen, I'm not the guy to ask about this. I think you've misunderstood who I am. Hi, mate. I hope you're well.

我惹上了一点债务麻烦，大约4万英镑。所以不止一点麻烦。我在寻求一些建议和方向，关于也许被动收入/一条尝试努力摆脱困境的途径。有没有我应该读、看的一些资料，你可能知道的？我问他，我说，是什么类型的债务？

I got myself in a bit of trouble with some debt, about £40,000. So more than a bit of trouble. After I'm after some advice and direction in terms of maybe passive income slash an avenue to try and work my way out of it. Is there some material I should be reading, watching that you might know of? And I asked him, I said, what kind of debt is it?

他说是个人贷款和信用卡的问题，老兄。我说我需要确认这些债务有多紧急，是否造成了任何即时问题。他说其实不是特别紧急，但由于每月支出太高，这个月我的房贷已经拖欠一个月了。所以情况确实如此，但我不想继续这样下去。

And he said, personal loans and credit cards, mate. And I said, like, how I need to ascertain how urgent those debts are and if it's causing any any immediate issues. And he said, well, they're not super urgent. But as a result of the high monthly outgoings, I'm a month behind my mortgage payment this month. So it, like, is, but it's not because I don't want to keep being in that position moving forward.

目前我每月要还大约1000美元或800英镑，又申请不了合并贷款。这简直是完美风暴——我刚换了新工作，伴侣正在休产假，还有这座债务大山。已经开始影响我的家庭了。嗯。如果我还不起房贷，你知道后果的。

It's costing me circa $1,000 or £800 a month in repayments at the moment, and I can't get a consolidation loan. It's a perfect storm starting because I've just started a new job, and my partner is on maternity leave, and I have this debt mountain. It's starting to affect my family Mhmm. If I can't pay the mortgage. You know?

所以我必须改变现状，想办法解决，而你是最适合咨询的人。我当时心想：天啊。我并不是...结果一小时内他又发消息说：嘿，抱歉兄弟，如果你忙的话就当提醒一下。

So I've gotta change moving forward and figure out what to do, and you're the man to ask for advice. I was like, fuck me. I'm not and then he messaged me again within an hour and said, hey. Sorry, man. If you're busy, just wanted to nudge this.

因为我在飞机上，一小时后他又发消息：嘿，我真的需要帮助和指导，老兄。我快要走投无路了。

Then messaged again an hour later because I was on a flight and said, hey. I really need some help and direction, man. I'm quickly running out of places to turn.

他处境确实艰难——四万英镑的债务，按15%到20%的利率计算，利息就会开始失控。如果债务低于一万英镑还好管理些，但四万镑的利息会快速复利增长。既然他有房贷，甚至可能需要考虑卖房来至少控制利息支出或减少债务总额。这种情况必须尽可能削减所有开支，把所有资金都用于偿还利率最高的债务。

He's kind of in a hard spot because forty thousand pounds in debt with the interest payments of, let's say, interest rate is 15 to 20%, that starts to spiral out of control a little Like, if he was under £10,000 in in debt, it's a little bit more manageable. But at 40,000, the interest starts to compound quite quickly. So, you you said he had a mortgage. He might even have to consider moving, selling, selling the home to at least get the interest payments under control or, like, reduce that amount of debt. It's kind of the one of those situations where you just need to reduce every single expense possible and start really pouring all your money into the highest interest rate debt that he owns.

可以把所有债务按利率从高到低排序，从最高的开始处理。如果是22%的利率，就要优先清偿，因为这才是最致命的。这种债务水平下真的很困难，很多人会考虑破产来清零债务，具体取决于他的收入。我认识个服务员欠了五万美元信用卡债，因为利息都快赶上工资了根本还不清。除非能从亲友那里获得个人贷款来清偿债务，否则处境会非常艰难。

So like, you you can rank your interest rates of all your debts from highest to lowest and start start at the very top, right? If it has 22% interest rate, you want to get rid of that first because that's what's killing them. At those levels of debt, it's really tough, because I think a lot of people consider bankruptcy at that point, just to kind of clear that amount of debt, depending on what his income is. I know I've known, let's say, a waitress or server that had $50,000 in credit card debt and just unable to get over it because the interest payments were as much as their salary. So in those cases, unless you can get a personal loan from, let's say, a family member and, you know, kind of clear that debt, you're in a really tough spot.

尽量削减开支，把所有闲钱都用于偿还利率最高的债务，优先处理最高利率的部分，如果他有资产的话还可以考虑变卖一些资产。

Reduce your expenses as much as possible. Put any extra money you have towards that debt at the highest interest rate possible, the first the highest interest rate thing, and then consider selling some assets if he has assets.

破产。

Bankruptcy.

破产。

Bankruptcy.

什么时候应该考虑破产，其中的利弊权衡是什么？

When should someone consider bankruptcy, and what's the trade off?

代价是七年。我相信在美国你的信用就毁了。但实际上我认为，如果你查一下图表——前几天有人给我发了一条推特，显示美国谷歌上破产律师搜索量的趋势，这个数字一直在上升，这不是什么好事。破产有不同的类型

The trade off is seven years. I believe your credit is shot in America. So but I I believe that actually, I think if you pull up a chart someone sent me a tweet the other day of bankruptcy lawyer searches in America on Google, and it's been kind of going up and to the right, which is not a great thing. Bankruptcy, there's different types of bankruptcy

你可以

that you

申请，但我知道它通常会清除部分甚至全部债务，而你基本上需要从头开始。但因此，你会失去很多特权，比如没有信用评分。

can file for, but I do know that it usually clears some, if not all, your debt, and you basically have to start over. But as a result, you lose a lot of your privileges, like, for example, no credit score.

我读过一些统计数据——不知道你是否知道这是否属实，但我看到一个统计，大意是说人们因为与之相关的污名而避免破产。当他们观察那些确实破产的人十年间的财务表现时，发现那些破产的人通常比那些试图避免破产的人在接下来的十年里过得更好。

I've read some stat. I'm not you might know if this is true, but I read a stat that it said something to the effect that people avoid going into bankruptcy because of the stigma associated with it. When they looked at the financial performance over ten years of people that did go into bankruptcy, those that did typically were better off than those that tried to avoid it for the next So ten

是的。我不知道。那可能只是个案。我不确定。这很棘手，因为如果你有5万美元债务而年收入只有5万，确实是这样。

yeah. I don't know. That could be anecdotal. I don't know. That's tough because if you have $50,000 in debt and you make $50,000 a year, it's yeah.

从某些方面来说，破产是件好事，因为它迫使你进行危机管控。就像你的支出、你的行为，所有事情都会变得高度集中。就像你一开始提到的，人们应该如何审视自己的开支。是的，支出方面。对吧？

It's Bankruptcy in some ways is a good thing because it forces you to do crisis control. It's like your expenditure, what you're doing, what everything becomes hyper focused. Like, you you led in the beginning with about, you know, how people should look at their expense Yeah. Expenditure. Right?

没错。当你负债4万美元时，你显然没有做到这点。正确。而破产实际上会迫使你在相当长一段时间内约束自己，直到这成为史蒂夫的习惯，这就是为什么他们最终表现更好的原因——因为你养成了我们在讨论开始时谈到的那种习惯。

Yeah. When you're 40,000 in debt, you've not been doing that. Correct. And bankruptcy actually forces you to to actually discipline that for an extended period of time where it becomes a habit to Steve, and that's why they outperform in the end because you've created the habit that you talked about right in the beginning of this discussion.

是的。我刚看到这个数据。它说，这确实是金融领域一个令人不安的真相，答案往往是肯定的。那些申请破产的人长期来看比那些长期试图避免破产的人处境更好。研究表明，申请破产的人通常能清除债务，摆脱无法偿还的债务。

Yeah. So I I just found the stat here. It said, yeah, this is one of the uncomfortable truths in finance, and the answer is often yes. Those who file for bankruptcy end up in a better place long term than those who try for prolonged periods of time to avoid it. And the research shows that people who file for bankruptcy typically get their debt wiped out and cleaned, and they removing unpayable debt.

破产能带来即时的精神解脱，消除无法偿还债务的沉重压力。而那些回避破产的人往往长期处于财务压力中，这种压力会蔓延到他们的健康、人际关系和工作。简而言之，直面破产的人通常恢复得更快，最终比那些蹒跚前行、试图避免破产的人处于更强大的长期地位。

Bankruptcy can bring immediate mental relief from moving the crushing stress of unpayable debts. People who avoid it often live in chronic financial stress, which spills into their health relationships and work. So in short, those who face bankruptcy head on often recover faster and end up in a long a stronger position than those who keep limping along trying to avoid it.

我觉得正在收听、可能处于类似困境的听众最终想知道的是：如何获得解脱。破产是一个选择，但归根结底必须要有改变，而这种改变是困难的。我认为这是很多人难以谈论或理解的部分。解脱是存在的，但它伴随着严重、极端且快速的牺牲。什么意思呢？

I think somebody who's listening who may be in a similar the same situation ultimately wants to know how do I get relief. Bankruptcy is one option, but at the end of the day, there has to be change, and that change is difficult. That's the part that I think a lot of people have a hard time talking about or comprehending. There is relief, but it comes with severe, extreme, and quick sacrifice. What do I mean?

第一，在这种情况下你必须尽快削减开支。必须尽可能卖掉所有东西。我的意思是，显然工作也会受影响，但你还可能失去房子。同时还会失去其他东西。这其中伴随着很大的情感代价。

Number one, you've got to cut back your expenses as fast as possible in that situation. You have to sell as much stuff as possible. I mean, obviously works, but you also lose your house. You also lose other things along with it. There's a lot of emotional toll with it.

你有一个家庭，有孩子。我的意思是，这也是人们最终离婚的一个重要原因，所以它也会在很多方面影响你的生活。因此你必须做出极端的牺牲，比如取消Netflix订阅，不是因为每月只花15美元，而是因为普通美国人每天花超过两小时看Netflix。如果你处于那种情况，每天花两小时坐在那里看Netflix上的任何内容，你晚上怎么睡得着？你不应该每晚睡八小时。

You have a family, have a kid. I mean, it's also a big reason people end up getting a divorce, so it can also impact your life in many different ways. So you have to make extreme sacrifices, and I mean, get rid of the Netflix subscription, not because it's just costing you $15 a month, but because the average American is spending more than two hours a day watching Netflix. And if you're in that type of situation and you're spending two hours sitting there watching whatever the heck is on Netflix, how do you sleep at night? You shouldn't be sleeping eight hours a night.

你最好起床，去想办法多赚点钱。我不在乎是开Uber，也不在乎是在麦当劳工作。找些额外收入，学习如何赚更多钱。我的意思是，这听起来很残酷，但现实是，如果你想要极端的改变，没有极端的改变是不可能实现的。

You better be getting up, go and try to get some more money. I don't care if it's Uber. I don't care if you're working McDonald's. Find some extra money and learn how you can earn some more money. And, I mean, it sounds harsh, but the reality is if you want extreme change, it's not gonna happen without extreme change.

那么你觉得他能卖掉房子吗？假设他赚5万美元，根据我对他的工作和居住地等的粗略了解，这个数字可能是准确的。卖掉房子然后租公寓住？这样能释放资金吗？

So could he sell his house, do you think, that assuming he's making the 50 k, which I I think is probably accurate, having a vague understanding of his job and where he lives, etcetera, sell his house and then move in rent an apartment? Would that free up capital?

我的意思是，那会立即缓解他当前的问题。当然。

I mean, that would alleviate his current problem immediately. Sure.

他在这里说，经过一些建议指导，可能是关于被动收入——被动收入这个词我知道。觉得它

He says here, after some advice direction in terms of maybe passive income this word passive income I know. Think it's

让人抓狂。

stressing nuts.

为什么它会让你抓狂？

Why does it drive you nuts?

这就像是一个被动收入产业化综合体，我的意思是，这确实是每个千禧一代的梦想——我要获得被动收入。

It is a there's like a passive income industrialization complex that is I mean, it is literally every millennial's dream is, I'm gonna get passive income.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但它并不存在。我们谈过房产。房产是你所能想象的最不被动收入的方式。糟糕透了。每次我尝试出租房产，都有无数成本。

And it doesn't exist. We talked about property. Property is the least passive income you can imagine. It is awful. Every time I've tried to rent out property, there are so many costs.

什么都会出问题。简直没完没了。你要支付各种费用。人们却以为存在某种神奇的被动收入。一切都需要付出努力。

Everything goes wrong. It's just endless. You're paying fees. And people think there's there's there's a magic passive income. Everything comes with effort.

没有不劳而获这回事。就连抢劫也得费劲呢，明白吗？没有不付出努力或不冒风险就能赚钱的方法。所以当你负债4万英镑时，你怎么会认为被动收入能救你？

There is no such thing as returns without effort. That's but even robbery comes with effort. You know? There's there's no way of making money without effort or risking something. And so when you're $40 in debt, how on earth do you think passive income is going to rescue you?

但他在TikTok和Instagram上看到了这些。哦，我们这些三十多岁的千禧一代，现在住在里斯本，靠着房子的被动收入生活。这完全是胡说八道。这是社交媒体制造的梦幻泡影，根本不存在，也永远无法把他从4万英镑的债务中拯救出来。

But he's seen that on TikTok and, on Instagram. Oh, we're we're millennials in our in our thirties, and we're now living in in the in in Lisbon, and we've got passive income from our house. It's like it's bullshit. It's social social media dream that doesn't really exist, and that's never gonna save him from £40,000 debt.

被动收入可以存在。问题在于人们对它的认知。我正在为钱发愁。我身无分文。我有账单要付。

Passive income can exist. The perception of what it is is the problem. I am struggling with money. I have no money. I got bills to pay.

我需要被动收入。但事情不是这样运作的。

I need passive income. And that's not how it works.

事情不是这样运作的。

That's not how it works.

正确的运作方式是，你拿出额外的钱。我去工作，存钱并投资一些钱。我把想要投入两项投资的额外资金，投入到一种资产、一项投资中，这种投资可以仅仅因为拥有它就给我回报，而不需要实际工作，不需要去上班就能拥有它。现在让我问问你的房地产情况，因为我得一直回来找你，老兄。你是自己管理房地产，还是有经理人？

The way it works is you take extra money. I'm going to work and I'm saving and investing some money. I take the extra money that I want to put my two investments, and I can put it into an asset, an investment that can pay me for owning it without actually working, without going to work to own it. Now let me ask you about your real estate, because I gotta keep coming back to you, man. Did manage your real estate yourself, or did you have manager?

两种方式我都试过。我既有过管理代理，也自己管理过。

I've done both. I've had management agent and a management myself.

自己管理可能完全是一场噩梦。

Managing yourself is probably a a absolute nightmare.

那太可怕了。

That's horrific.

而通过经理人来管理可能也同样是一场噩梦，只是场景不同罢了。

And managing it with a manager was also probably a nightmare just in a different scene.

是的。而且因为你的收益率也大幅降低了。

Yeah. And because your yield is massively reduced as well.

是降低了。

It is reduced.

然后你就要权衡是选择短期租赁还是长期租赁。短期租赁存在波动性，你无法预知收益率会是多少。长期租赁又有所不同。你还得面对租客问题，他们可能很糟糕，造成的损坏也很严重。是的。

And then you take the trade off between whether you're gonna do short term lets or longer term rentals. And there's the volatility in the short term lets that you don't know what your yield's gonna be. Long term, different as well. Then you've got the tenants and how bad the tenants have been and the damage that they've done. Yep.

到最后，你会选择放弃并心想，哦，真的吗？这根本不值得这么费劲。

By the end of it, you walk away and think, oh, really? It just wasn't worth the effort.

嗯，我不同意

Well, I would disagree with

是的。我的意思是，显然有些人确实能从房地产中赚得盆满钵满。

Yeah. The other I mean, obviously, people can do really well out of property.

房地产投资的工作在于学习这个过程。当我刚开始投资房地产时，完全是一场噩梦，根本谈不上被动收入，完全不是那么回事，就是一场噩梦。刚开始时你不知道的是，物业经理有好有坏。如何找到好的物业经理？就是通过经历很多糟糕的物业经理并学习这个过程。

The work in real estate investment is learning the process. When I first started investing in real estate, it was a complete nightmare, and it was not passive, anything close to passive, it was a nightmare. What you don't know when you start is that there's a good property manager, there's also a bad property manager. How do I find good property managers? By going through a lot of bad property managers and learning that process.

这是一个痛苦的过程，非常耗时。但当你拥有合适的团队时，它可以变得极其被动。所以我投资房地产。

And that is a painful process, a very time consuming process. But when you do have the right team, it can be extremely passive. So I I invest in real estate.

我们说的是哪种类型的房产？

What kind of properties are we talking about?

独栋住宅和多户公寓。

Single family houses and multifamily apartments.

你有很多这样的房产吗？

And do you have lots of them?

不算很多，但我有相当的数量。

Not lots, but I have a decent amount.

你的投资组合中有多少比例是购买房产然后出租给家庭的？

And how much of your portfolio is in buying properties and then renting them out to families?

50%。

50%.

那么过去十年里，你们的年化回报率是怎样的？

And what are your returns been like over year over year for the last decade?

所以当我考察房产收购的回报时，我看重的是投入资金的现金回报率达到7%。在看待回报时，我不关心资产增值。我们多次讨论过这一点：如果我花10万美元买下一套房子，后来涨到20万美元，我并不在意。我收购房地产的目标不是为了转手获利，而是为了持续增长每月产生的现金流——

So the way I look at returns when I look to acquire a property is I want 7% cash on cash on the money that I put in. So when I look at return, I don't care about equity. We talked about this kind of a lot, that if I buy a house for, let's just call it $100,000 and it goes up to $200,000 I don't care. My goal when I acquire real estate is not to sell it and flip it for a profit. My goal is to grow the cash flow that I'm generating month after month after

月租金收入。

month rental payments.

来自租金收入。

From rental payments.

但这确实很困难，因为像我这样没有太多房产租赁经验的人，搞砸的可能性——绝对很高。

It's really difficult, though, because if I as someone that hasn't done a lot of property rentals and stuff like that, the chance that I'm gonna fuck up Absolutely. Is high.

我就是那种搞砸次数多到数不清的人。这让我失眠无数次，承受了巨大压力。

And I'm one of those people that probably screwed up more than more than I can count. It just cost me a lot of sleep, cost me a lot of stress.

所以你必须成为这方面的专家才行。

So you have to kind of be an expert.

你不必成为专家，但你必须非常消极。一开始，对吧，在最初的几年里，那是极其痛苦的。但如今，当我去收购一处房产时，我会像研究股票或其他任何我想做的事情一样研究房产。我会做功课去研究房产。在当今的经济环境下，要找到那样的回报要困难得多，但并非不可能。

You don't have to be an expert, but you gotta be really negative. In the beginning, right, for the first number of years, it was extremely painful. But today, when I go and I acquire a property, I will look for the property just like I do research on a stock or whatever I want to do. I do the work to research a property. In today's economy, it's much harder, not impossible, to find those returns.

收购房产，把钥匙交给物业经理，给他们设定目标，现在我负责监督经理，因为我有了一个团队，这是一项业务。

Acquire the property, hand over the keys to the property manager, give them the goals, and now I oversee the manager because I have a team now that is It's a business.

这是一项业务。就像创办初创公司一样。

It's a business. It's like starting startup.

但这不像创办初创公司。为什么？因为当我创办我的公司时，我在公司里工作，投入大量时间。所以我会见我的员工，主持会议。

But it's not like starting a startup. Why? Because starting a startup when I work in my company, I am working at my company, and I work a lot of hours. So I'm meeting with my employees. I'm leading the meetings.

我提出想法，引领愿景。而做这个，我收购，我交出钥匙，我已经设定了框架，现在你负责执行。

I'm coming up with ideas. I'm leading the vision. With this, I acquire, I hand over the keys, I've already set the framework, and now you are doing the execution.

那是一个成熟的企业。我的公司在英国现在有几百号人，对吧

That's a mature business. With my company, there's hundreds of people in The UK right

那个正在创办初创公司的人。

the one that's starting that startup.

我是创始人。

I was the founder.

那现在你做了什么？你招了更多员工来实现这个目标。

And now what have you done? You've acquired more employees to get there.

这正是你在物业管理方面所做的。

Which is what you did with your property management.

不过创业公司处理起来要困难得多。一家初创公司需要发展到多大，才能取代你作为CEO来支付员工薪水、赚钱，然后再聘请一位新CEO

Much harder to deal with a startup, though. How big does a startup have to be in order to be able to displace you as a CEO to pay for the staff, to make the money, and then to hire a new CEO

并引领它发展？这要看情况。我的朋友阿什，上周刚和我在洛杉矶，他的初创公司只有四个人。他现在就在洛杉矶，在我洛杉矶的房子里，和我的女朋友以及我另一个还在那里的好朋友在一起，我看到他正在泡热水浴缸。我知道是因为每天同一时间他都会去泡热水浴缸，然后他们去徒步，我女朋友会发照片给我。

and to lead it the way? Depends. My friend's my friend, Ash, who was just with me last week in LA, has four people in his start up. He's out in LA right now in my house in LA with my girlfriend and my other best friend who's still there, and I watched he's in the hot tub right now. I know that because every day at the same time he goes in the hot tub, then and they go for this hike, and my girlfriend sends me photos.

他所做的是组建了一个四人团队。他们在LinkedIn上为人们做个人品牌打造，并在英国为他运营业务。他现在正和我女朋友在山上呢。这太棒了。

What he's done is he set up his team of four people. They do personal branding on LinkedIn for people, and they're running it back for him in The UK. He's up in bloody the mountain with my girlfriend right now. That's beautiful.

但有多少初创公司做不到这一点呢？

But how many startups don't do it there?

不。但我说的是创业。别跟我扯这个。我当时想，哦，那不过是一门生意罢了。

No. But I'm saying start up business. Don't get it to me. I was like, oh, that's just a it's just a business.

就是一门生意。

Is a business.

需要经历陡峭的学习曲线来培养专业知识，然后建立体系使其可持续运作。

A steep learning curve to develop expertise, and then you put systems in place to make it sustainable.

但这些体系某种程度上是预设好的——你需要出租房产，需要找个优秀的经理人来物色好租客，他们得支付账单。这不像创业需要我创新构思，不需要从零开始绘制蓝图。我是去获取人们已有需求且现存的资产，然后通过让他人居住或使用来发挥其效用，再由团队负责维护。

But it it the systems are kind of preestablished where you need to rent it out, need a good manager who's got to find a good tenant, they've to pay the bills. And it's not like a startup where I have to innovate and create an idea. I don't have to go out and build the blueprint. I am going out, I'm acquiring an asset that people already need that's already existing, and then I'm going to put used to it by having somebody live there or use it, and then there's a team just maintaining it.

那么你如何看待被动收入？它真实可行吗？具体到住房这一点：你是否建议人们购买租赁房产，通过收取租金作为收入来源？

So what do you think then in terms of passive income? And is it real? But specifically, let's do this point of housing. Do you advise people to buy rental properties and then generate rental fees from them as a source of income?

刚才你们也听到Jasperated说这需要付出多少努力了。所以我通常不建议人们进入这个行业，正是因为其陡峭的学习曲线。不是每个人都适合做这个，也不是每个人都有资本。如果你只是想入门并实际赚点钱，我认为股市是流动性最强、最易上手的领域。我个人租房住，并计划继续租房，同时将可能用于还贷的差额资金投入投资市场。

Well, you just heard Jasperated how much work it would take. So I generally don't advise people to get into that business just because of the steep learning curve. And not everyone is built for that, and not everyone has capital for that. So if you were just trying to get started and actually make some money, I just think the stock market is the most liquid and easiest place to get started. I personally rent, and I I plan on renting and just instead investing the difference of what my mortgage payment might be in my my rent.

我觉得在沿海地区，比如旧金山、纽约，迈阿密也算，租房投资可能是更合理的选择。

I think in on the coasts, like San Francisco, New York, I think Miami, that might actually be the more reasonable thing to do.

我昨天刚读了一篇《纽约时报》的文章，说美国现在租房住的百万富翁比以往任何时候都多，从2019年到2023年2月期间数量增长了三倍。短短几年间，百万富翁们选择租房的比例达到了历史新高。这是怎么回事？

I was reading a New York Times article that just came out yesterday, and it said more millionaires than ever are renting in The United States, and that it's tripled between 2019 and 02/2023. So in just a couple of years, millionaires are choosing to rent more than ever before. What's going on?

我猜很多百万富翁可能住在沿海地区，因为他们投资较多或有高薪工作，在旧金山、西雅图、纽约、洛杉矶这些地方买房对他们来说可能有点负担不起。

My guess would be a lot of the millionaires are probably living on the coast because they invest a lot or they have higher paying jobs, and maybe it's slightly unaffordable for them to buy a house in, say, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles.

《纽约时报》的文章中提到，他们选择的是灵活性和流动性而非所有权，不想被房产拥有的各种麻烦事困扰，包括支付房地产税和保险费，尤其是在佛罗里达和加州这样的市场，自然灾害频发。

In the New York Times article, it says they're choosing flexibility and liquidity over ownership, and they don't want to be bothered with the inconveniences of homeownership, which includes paying a real estate tax and insurance, especially in markets like Florida and California, where we're seeing a lot of natural catastrophes.

没错。美国是个特别的市场，因为持有房地产要交很高的房产税。

Yeah. So The US is a peculiar market because there's this high real estate tax in owning real estate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你的收益一直在被这些税费削减。不管是1.5%还是2%，总之有这笔支出。此外还有其他房地产税。利率一直很高，已经持续一段时间了。

So all the time, your returns are being reduced by that you pay. So whether it's like 1.5% or two percent, whatever the number is, there's that. And then there's the other real estate taxes that come on top of it. Interest rates have been high. They've been high for a while now.

所以很多人仅仅因为利息支付就被市场拒之门外。但现在，由于房贷还款的存在，与租房的区别在于很多房东不需要覆盖房贷成本，因为他们已经全款拥有房产，所以你能获得更便宜的租金。这其实与价格有关。美国经济在普通民众层面还没有特别强劲，华尔街表现很好，但普通百姓的生活并非如此。

So a lot of people have just been priced out of the market just in interest payments. But now, because mortgage payments are here, the difference is actually with the rental is a lot of rental people aren't trying to cover mortgage costs because they own the property outright, so you get cheaper rates. So it's to do with price. The US economy has not been super strong yet at Main Street level. Wall Street's had a great period of time, but Main Street hasn't.

所以人们还没有多余的收益。我认为这是其中一个因素，但可能也是一个更大的趋势。

So people don't have excess earnings yet. So I think it's a function of that, but it's probably a larger trend as well.

而且我认为还需要了解机会在哪里。我的意思是，租房有很多灵活性。比如，我最终在2025年买了房子，在此之前我一直是租房的。

And I think also it's understanding what the opportunities are. I mean, there's a lot of flexibility with renting. I mean, I finally bought a house in 2025. I've been renting before this.

所以你今年买了第一套房产，是和家人一起住的吗？

So you bought your first property to live in with your family this year?

对，是的。我自己住的房子是2025年买的。

To from yes. Me to live in was 2025.

为什么没有早点买呢？

Why didn't you do it sooner?

嗯，因为租房的时候，我可以把资金用来购买其他租赁房产，或者进行其他投资。所以对我来说，把这些钱用在其他地方更划算。

Well, because when I was renting, I could take the capital and buy other rental properties, buy other investments. So it was it made more sense for me to put that money to work somewhere else.

那么，把买房作为积累财富的手段是个糟糕的主意吗？

So is buying a property as a means to generate wealth a terrible idea?

作为一种为自己购置居住之所的手段

As a means to generate to buy for yourself to live in

或者说...嗯，但你知道，我成长过程中，所有人都告诉我：先赚钱，找份工作，然后申请房贷。所以，大家基本上都是这么做的。

or to Well, but, know, when you when I grew up, everyone said to me that you get money, get a job, then you get a mortgage. And so, like, that's what you did.

这简直是能给人最糟糕的建议之一

That's one of the worst pieces of advice you can give somebody

但这就是大多数人的做法。现在绝大多数人依然如此。我之所以知道，是因为我那些没有像我一样从哥哥、理财顾问和会计师那里获得财务建议的朋友们，他们有了点钱后的第一件事就是去申请房贷。因为他们父母就是这么做的，历来如此。

But that's what everyone's doing. That's still what the vast majority of people are doing. And I know that because I look at I look at my friends that don't have the same financial advice that I have from, like, my brother and my financial advisers, my accountants. And the first thing they do when they get a bit of money is they go and get a mortgage. And that's because that's what their parents did, and that's what everyone's always done.

拉胡尔，你觉得这样做明智吗？

Is that a good idea, Rahul?

既是也不是。更确切地说不是。考虑到如今的经济环境，别忘了，我24、25岁时在投行工作，当时收入并非最高，只是个25岁的年轻人。

Yes and no. No. I think these days, with how the economy's being set up, don't forget, when I was 24, 25, I was working in an investment bank. I wasn't the highest paid guy there. I was a 25 year old.

在伦敦买我的第一套公寓时，房价是我收入的3.5倍。而现在同等公寓与同等收入的比率是12倍。所以如今租房更合理，你不如去投资。购买所有你认为能带来回报的东西。但自住房产不是投资，永远都不是。

And to buy my first flat in London was three and a half times my income. That equivalent flat and the equivalent income is 12 times. So rent makes much more sense now, and you might as well invest. Buy all the stuff that you think will drive returns. But a house, a primary house, is not an investment, never will be.

因为一旦你买了它，你就不会卖掉它。你不会实现那份资产。也许你的孩子会，如果你有孩子的话。所以它不算投资，但它可以是对你未来的投资。

Because once you buy it, you don't sell it. You don't realize that equity. Maybe your kids do if you've got kids. So it's not an investment, but it can be an investment in your future.

但这里好像有些视觉错觉，因为当我考虑租房时，我会想，嗯，那笔钱，我再也见不到了。但买房的话，我是在往里付钱，所以就像我把钱存进储蓄罐一样。所以，逻辑上，租房当然是浪费钱。钱给了别人，再也见不到了。

But there's, like, some optical illusion going on here because when I think about renting, I go, well, that money, I never see it again. But with buying a house, I'm paying into it, so it's like me depositing the money in a piggy bank. So, logically, of course, renting is wasting money. It goes to someone else and never see it again.

但这并不完全正确。如果你今天出去，我买一栋50万美元的房子。我付20%的首付。所以我付了10万美元首付。我贷款40万美元。

But that's not exactly true. If you go out today, I buy a half a million dollar house. I put 20% down. So I put a $100,000 down. I finance $400,000.

我拿到6.5%的抵押贷款。三十年，我的月供是2500美元。现在我在做什么？我不是在租房。我不是在把钱给我的房东。

I get a 6.5% mortgage. Thirty years, my mortgage payment is $2,500 a month. Now what am I doing? I'm not renting. I'm not giving money to my landlord.

我正在积累我的房产资产。但银行也懂同样的游戏。他们让你的抵押贷款前置加载。这意味着什么？当我支付2500美元时，并不是12.5美元用于偿还本金以积累房屋资产，12.5美元用于支付利息。

I'm building equity in my property. But banks also understand the same game. They front load your mortgage. What does that mean? When I pay $2,500 it's not $12.50 dollars going to principal to build equity in my house and $12.50 dollars for interest.

本金是什么？是为你自己买回房子。不是一半一半。几乎全是利息。事实上，如果你今天以6.5%的抵押贷款利率买下那栋50万美元的房子，付20%的首付，在抵押贷款的头二十年里，超过一半的还款将直接作为利息进入银行家的口袋。

It's Principal being? Buying your house back for yourself. It's not half and half. It's almost all interest. In fact, if you go on and buy the half a million dollar house today at a six and a half percent mortgage, 20% down, for the first twenty years of that mortgage, more than half of that payment is going to go directly to your banker's pocket with interest.

直到第二十一年，你2500美元月供的一半才会用于积累房屋资产。所以起初全是利息，零资产，然后慢慢这样变化。需要二十年才能达到那个点。而在这个过程中，对很多人（不是所有人）来说会发生的是，利率下降了，我需要一些额外的钱，那我怎么办？我重新贷款。

It's not until year twenty one that half of your $2,500 payment is going to go towards equity in your house. So it's all interest, zero equity, and then slowly moves like this. It takes twenty years to get there. And then what happens along the way for a lot of people, not everybody, for a lot of people, is along the way, interest rates go down, I need some extra money, so what do I do? I refinance.

一旦我进行再融资，那个分期偿还过程就重新开始了，所以现在我再次支付所有这些利息，而我真正积累的资产净值并不在那里。这就是为什么我说买房不是坏事。我认为如果你买房很棒，但不要像你说的那样对待你的房子。不要把你的房子当作投资。把它当作一项开销。

As soon as I refinance, that amortization starts all over again, and so now I'm paying all this interest again, and my real equity that I'm building is not there. This is why I say it's not bad to buy a house. I think it's great if you buy a house, but don't treat your house like you said. Don't treat your house like an investment. Treat it like an expense.

买房是因为你能负担得起，因为你想要，因为你准备好了，但不是因为你要积累财富。

Buy because you can afford it, because you want it, because you're ready, but not because you're going build wealth.

你怎么看？

What do think?

我同意他们俩的看法。我认为房子是一种不容易出售的资产，所以这也是件好事。比如，你有10万美元可以投入股市，或者10万美元用作首付，而你知道自己是一个非常情绪化的人，股市一跌2%你就卖出，那可能还是买房更好，对吧？你不能真的划两下就把房子卖了。但就投资而言，它通常对人们来说远不止是投资。

I agree with both their takes. I think that a home is an asset that you can't sell very easily, so that's also a good thing. Like, you have $100,000 to put into stocks or $100,000 to put on a down payment, and you know you were just such an emotional person that the moment that the stock market goes down 2% you're selling, probably better to buy a house, right? You can't really sell your house in the tap of two swipes. But in terms of an investment, it's like usually it's much more than investment to people.

他们买房是出于心理原因或情感原因，或是为了安全感。所以我想说，如果你对买房感兴趣并且你能负担得起，那就太好了。是的。

They they buy them for psychological reason or emotional reasons or the the sense of security. So I would just say, like, if you're interested in buying a house and you you can afford it, then that that's great. Yeah.

我们实际上来看看最好的情况。就像，我想你提到过这个。我花50万美元买了一套房子。它升值到了一百万美元。天哪。

And let's actually go with the best case scenario. So like, I think you were mentioning this. I buy a house for, let's call it half a million dollars. It goes up in value to a million dollars. Oh my god.

我发财了。对吧？嗯，虽然这是看不见的，但没错，我可以进行现金再融资，但现在我得支付所有那些费用。但问题来了：你现在拥有一套百万美元的房子。

I'm rich. Right? Well, it's invisible, but but yeah, I could take the cash out refinance, but now I had to pay all that. But here's the problem. You now own a million dollar house.

这意味着什么？你必须为一栋价值百万美元的房子缴纳房产税，所以你得支付更多的房产税。你还得为这栋百万美元的房子购买保险。现在如果你把这栋房子传给子女，很好，他们得到了一栋百万美元的房子。但如果他们负担不起百万美元房子的房产税或保险，那他们只能卖掉它。

What does that mean? You have to pay property taxes on a million dollar house, so you've got to pay a lot more property taxes. You have to pay insurance on a million dollar house. And so now if you pass this house down to your kids, great, they got a million dollar house. But if they can't afford the property taxes or the insurance on a million dollar house, now they have to sell it.

保险是这些真正隐藏的成本之一，你意识不到，尤其是在飓风多发地区，比如德克萨斯或俄克拉荷马等地，突然之间，除了要交的税之外，你的房屋保险费用也高得令人望而却步。人们不会想到

Insurance is one of these really hidden costs that you don't realize, particularly if you're in a hurricane area like Texas or Oklahoma or something, suddenly your house insurance costs are prohibitive on top of the taxes you pay. People don't think about

这一点。

that.

所以，Jasper，你是说通过比特币。对吧？全部投入

So, Jasper, you're saying by Bitcoin. Right? Go all

进去。你离拥有一切只差一枚币。零成本。

in. You're 1 coin away from everything. Zero cost.

他们刚刚点击了那个。剪辑了那个。是的。它已经病毒式传播了。但在这张桌子上没有人会采纳买房作为财富创造策略。

They've just clicked that. Clipped that. Yeah. It's gone viral. But no no one at this table would adopt buying a house as a wealth creation strategy.

不。在那之前你们都会做很多事情。

No. You would all do many things before then.

是的。没错。

Yeah. Correct.

那是不是几乎排在清单的最末尾？

Would that be almost at the bottom of the list of things?

这取决于我们讨论的是哪个年龄段的人群。如果你大概嗯…38岁左右嗯…有了孩子，已经还清部分学生贷款，经济状况稳定。这种保障性支出没问题，但它不算投资。

It's part of it's age cohort who we're talking about. If you're kind of like Mhmm. 38 years old Mhmm. You've got a kid, you kinda cleared up some of your student debt payments, you're okay. That security thing is fine, but it's not investment.

任何更年轻的人，根本不需要考虑。

Anybody younger, just no.

如果纯粹讨论美元投资回报率，我可能会把它排在更靠后的位置

Is it If you're just talking pure dollar investment returns, I probably would rank it lower on the list

确实如此。

for sure.

对了。存在所谓的好债务吗？因为一开始你说要清理债务。到底存不存在良性债务？

Yeah. Is there any such thing as good debt? Because I remember at the start, you said clear up your debts. Is there is there a good debt?

人们通过债务赚很多钱，但人们也因债务亏很多钱。

People make a lot of money on debt, but people lose a lot of money on debt.

我只是尽量完全避开债务。是的。我的意思是，我认为确实存在所谓的“良性债务”，如果它能为你所用，让你能利用那笔钱赚更多钱。但很多人，你知道，杠杆伴随着很大风险。

I just try to stay away from debt altogether. Yeah. I mean, I think that yeah. There is such a thing as, good debt if it's working for you and you're able to to leverage that money to make more money. But a lot of people, you know, with leverage gets comes a lot of risk.

而且我知道很多人被彻底击垮，就是因为他们承担了所谓的“良性债务”，对吧？

And I know a lot people got wiped out because they took on quote unquote good debt, right?

什么是杠杆？

What's leverage?

杠杆就是，举个例子，在贾斯普里特的例子里，你付20%的首付买房子，剩下的80%办理抵押贷款。这在技术上就是利用了杠杆，因为你用自己拥有的10万美元，现在却买得起价值50万美元的资产。如果你的房子从50万美元涨到100万美元，你获得了50万美元的收益，但你只投入了10万美元。所以从技术上讲，你的利润或回报率要高得多。这是通过你所承担的债务来实现的杠杆效应。

Leverage is so for example, in Jaspreet's example, you put 20% down on a house, and you take an 80%, the rest of it, as a mortgage. That's technically leveraging your money because you're taking the 100 ks that you have, and now you're affording an asset that's worth $500,000 If your home goes from $500,000 to $1,000,000 you have a $500,000 gain, but you only put in a $100,000. So technically, your profit or your return percentage is much higher. It was leveraged by that debt that you carried.

嗯，我觉得大多数人并不知道他们可以对自己的加密货币加杠杆。

Well, I don't think most people know that they can leverage their crypto.

那是

That's

是的。你可以用它来抵押借款。

right. You can borrow against it.

所以任何人都可以。你不需要去银行。

So anyone can. You don't need to go to a bank.

不需要。你可以在所谓的去中心化金融中即时完成。或者有很多公司提供这种服务，你可以用资产抵押借款。你甚至可以用数字艺术品来抵押。我是个狂热的数字艺术收藏家。

No. You can do it instantaneously in what's known as decentralized finance. Or there's there's a whole bunch of companies that do this, where you can borrow against your assets. You can even do it against digital art. I'm a huge digital art collector.

很像艺术品市场，你实际上可以去根据艺术品的价值借款，可能是价值的50%。

Much like the art market, you can actually go and borrow against the value of the art, maybe 50% against the value.

让我用超级简单的方式解释一下。如果我是作为一个从未买过比特币、正在考虑可能买一个，但又希望有办法获得一点现金的人。

Let me explain this to me super simply. If I as if for someone that's, like, never even bought Bitcoin before and is thinking about potentially buying one, but they would also like some way to have a little bit of cash.

听着。我不喜欢这样。好吧。我理解为什么，但问题是你有一个这样的资产。它波动很大。

Look. I don't like it. Okay. I understand why, but the issue is you've got an asset that does this. It's volatile.

它非常不稳定，而你正在用它抵押借入一定金额。你不知道它是否会跌破那个价值导致被清算，那样你就失去了所有的比特币。整个游戏的关键是，如果你处于长期牛市，只要不失去对你代币的控制。一直持有你的比特币，而你为了额外的5%或10%收益冒着搞砸的风险。图什么呢？

It's very volatile, And you're borrowing a certain amount against it. And you don't know whether it falls below that value and you get liquidated, then you've lost all of your Bitcoin. The whole game is if you're in a secular bull market, just don't lose control of your tokens. Own own your Bitcoin all the way through, and you have a risk of screwing that up for the extra 5% income or 10% income. At what?

在以太坊中，情况非常不同，因为你在进行质押。所以你会在网络中自然获得奖励。

In in Ethereum, very different world because you're staking. So you're getting naturally rewarded in the network.

质押是什么意思？

What does that mean, staking?

意思是，在比特币中，矿工通过解决算法和计算来获得奖励。而在以太坊、Solana、SUI和其他大型区块链中，你通过保护网络安全来获得奖励。所以你质押代币来保护网络，因为越多人建立这种网络连接，你就能获得报酬。目前以太坊的收益率大约是4%。

What it means is in Bitcoin, you actually get miners basically get rewarded for solving the the algorithm, the computation. In Ethereum and Solana and SUI and the other big blockchains, you basically get rewarded for securing the network. So you stake your tokens to secure the network because the more people then have this network connectivity between them, and you get paid for that. So in Ethereum right now, it's probably 4% yield.

好的。我试着用十岁小孩能懂的话来总结一下。

Okay. So just I'll try and summarize this like a ten year old.

但这没有风险。你没有使用杠杆。

But there's no risk in that. You're not getting leverage in that.

所以如果我选择购买以太坊这种加密货币，我可以把我价值10万美元的以太坊，在手机上点几下，就可以移动它。按一个按钮就能把它转入质押状态。当它被质押时，我基本上是在用我的以太坊来保护网络，让整个系统更安全以便正常运行。作为回报，他们会每月支付给我4%的收益。

I so if I choose to buy Ethereum, which is a form of cryptocurrency, I can take my $100,000 of of Ethereum, and on my phone, in a couple of clicks, I can move it. I can press a button and move it so that it is staked. And when when it's staked, I am basically using my Ethereum to secure the network, to make the whole thing more secure so it can run properly. And in return, they'll give me 4% of it as a payment every month.

呃，不是每月4%，而是按月支付。按月支付。

Well, not 4% a month, but Monthly payments. Monthly payments.

年化4%。是的。所以你可以在你的加密货币上获得利息。

Of 4% annualized. Yeah. So you can you can get interest on your crypto.

是的，基本上是这样。如果你更懂行一点，更激进一点，还有收益增强产品。我们之前聊过高收益银行账户，加密货币领域也有高收益版本，收益率可以达到20%、30%。

Yes. Essentially. And then if you're a little more sophisticated, a little bit racier, there are then yield enhancements. So we talked about high yield bank accounts. There's high yield versions in crypto, and you can get up to 20%, 30%.

但这时候你就在承担风险了。

But now you're taking risks.

我还可以用我的以太坊进行抵押贷款。实际上我曾经这么做过，现在不做了。但我当时有1000个以太坊，我把它——我申请了一笔

And I can also loan against my Ethereum. So I actually did this at one point. I don't do it anymore. But I I had a thousand Ethereum, and I and I put it I took a

一千美元还是一千个

thousand dollars or a thousand

一千个以太坊。是的。靠。天啊。是的。

A thousand Ethereum. Yeah. Fuck. Gosh. Yeah.

我知道。其实我前段时间转投比特币了，就几个月前，但时机可能不好。这就是为什么梅洛迪太忙了。你真该先打电话问我的。我知道。

I know. I actually I switched into Bitcoin a little while ago, so a couple of months back, but probably bad timing. This is why Melody was too busy. You should've called me first. I know.

靠。不过，是的，这些人很情绪化。我拿它做了抵押贷款，曾经借了几百万美元，用我的以太坊作为抵押购买更多其他加密资产，让我惊讶的是我不用打电话给任何人，不用联系银行，只需在手机上点几个简单的按钮就行。

Fuck. But, yeah, this people are emotional. I had a loan against it, so I borrowed a couple of million dollars at at one point to buy some more other crypto assets against my Ethereum, and it was surprising to me that I didn't have to call anybody. I didn't have to ring a bank. I could just click a couple of simple buttons on my phone.

而我拥有的这一千个以太坊，我成功立刻获得了数百万美元现金直接支付给我。但我选择不那么做，因为市场波动性太大了。

And this a thousand Ethereum I had, I managed to get a couple of million dollars paid straight away in cash straight to me. But I chose not to do that because the markets are super volatile.

但这是一种极其高效、有效的方式，比如说如果你有价值10万美元的比特币，也就是一个比特币，用它作为抵押借2万美元

But but it is incredibly efficient, effective way of people if you were to let's say you had a $100,000 of Bitcoin, one Bitcoin, to borrow $20,000 against it

是的。

Yeah.

那风险并不大。

That's not very risky.

或者用它抵押借5000美元。

Or $5,000 against it.

5000美元。不管多少，风险都不大。或者如果你持有的是可以质押的不同币种，风险非常非常小。就像借钱给美国政府一样，我是说，借钱给以太坊政府，即以太坊网络。

5,000. Whatever it is, it's not very risky. Or if you're in a different currency where you can stake it, very little risk, very, very little risk. It's like lending to the US government, I. E, lending to the to the government of Ethereum, the Ethereum network.

这是一种相当不错的增强方式

That's a pretty decent way of of enhancing

用股票很难做到这一点。如果你持有5000美元的股票，很难用它们获得贷款。对吧？是的。通常来说，当我年轻时终于攒了些钱，买了1万美元的Facebook股票后，我根本想不到有什么简单方法能用我的Facebook股票作抵押贷款。

It's hard to do that with stocks. It's hard to get a loan against your stocks if you have $5,000 of stocks. Isn't it? Yeah. It's typical I mean, when I was when I was younger and I had I bought $10,000 of Facebook stock when I finally got some money, I I couldn't think I couldn't see a simple way of taking a loan against my Facebook stock.

直到后来我在欧洲有了私人投资银行，他们才主动提出：'您需要以蓝筹股价值的50%获得贷款吗？'

It wasn't until later when I had a private investment bank in Europe that my private investment bank were like, do you want 50% of your blue chip stocks as a loan?

是的。这可能通常只面向拥有更多资产的客户。但我想对质押收益率提出一点不同看法。我理解这4%几乎是零风险的，但以太坊价格总是存在风险的对吧？

Yeah. It's probably usually reserved for people with more assets. But I do wanna push back a little bit on the staking yield. I do understand it's 4% virtually risk free, but there are is are always gonna be risks with, you know, the price of Ethereum. Right?

所以关键点在于：你是以以太坊形式获得收益。以太坊。这才是重点对吧？你的

So, like, you're getting paid In Ethereum. Ethereum. And so this is a key thing. Right? Is your

你的风险在于你所质押的货币本身

your risk is the is the currency you are staking

如果以太坊价格下跌50%，那么你质押资产的法定货币价值就会缩水。相比之下，4%的高收益储蓄账户有FDIC保险保障，几乎是...

in. So if Ethereum goes down 50%, then your fiat value of Ethereum sorry, of your stake could go down versus, you know, if you're getting a 4% high yield savings account, it's backed by the FDIC. It's virtually this

此外还有另一个风险，以太坊实际上是年度质押。哦，我明白了。而且大部分质押是通过像Leidow这样的少数几家企业完成的，这些企业正在转向短期质押。因此存在期限错配，其中包含一些风险因素。您想问什么？

And there is another risk as well, is Ethereum is actually annual staking. Oh, I see. And most of it is being done via a few businesses like Leidow, which are turning into short term staking. And so there's a duration mismatch that has some elements of risk in. What do want?

抱歉。您请讲，先生。

Sorry. Go ahead, sir.

好的。好的。

Okay. Okay.

我正想问，您什么时候能收到收益？以太坊质押是每月获得收益，还是...

I was gonna say, when do you get paid? The with the Ethereum stake, you get paid every month, or do you

按年获得收益？我之前是每月收到收益。每月。好的。那养老金呢？

get paid on the year? I was getting paid monthly. Monthly. Okay. What about pensions?

退休金。退休金。在英国我们称之为pension，我想你们称之为401k。但在全世界——至少在整个西方世界——这基本上是一样的。

Retirement. Retirement. So in The UK, we call it a pension. I think you guys call it a four zero one k. But over across the world, it's pretty much the same, across the Western world anyway.

如果我25岁或30岁或任何年龄，我应该通过缴纳养老金来为将来积累财富吗？这是个明智的主意吗？

If I'm 25 or 30 or whatever, should I should I be paying into my pension as a way to generate to make myself wealthy someday? Is that a smart idea?

我没有401k账户，也没有个人退休账户（IRA）。但人们喜欢这些账户并且它们对某些人有效的原因是，它们是税收递延账户，意味着我可以把钱存进去，无论我现在还是以后缴税。钱会留在那里增值，直到我把钱取出来时才需要缴税。但这里有几个问题。

I don't have a four zero one k. I don't have an IRA. But the reason why people like these accounts and why they can work for some people is because they are tax deferred accounts, meaning I can put my money in, whether I pay taxes now or later. The money will then sit there, grow, and I don't pay taxes until I pull my money out. But there's a couple problems.

第一个问题是我对资金投资方向的控制权非常有限。也许这将会改变。特朗普政府已经签署了一项关于401k的新行政命令，可能会改变401k的投资范围，但这尚未实现。你的选择非常有限，主要是共同基金，而且很多都收取费用。

Problem number one is I have very little control over where my money can be invested. Maybe this will change. The Trump administration has passed a new executive order on 401Ks to change which you could potentially invest in 401Ks, but that hasn't happened yet. You have very limited options. They're primarily just mutual funds, and many of them have a fee.

我记得NerdWallet说过，92%的美国人不知道401k的费用是多少。所以如果你不清楚自己的401k费用，现在就去查一下费用比率吧，你应该了解这个。所以你的选择很有限，还必须支付费用，这意味着在你退休之前，华尔街有人会一直从中获利。第二，我要到60岁，确切地说是59岁半，才能动用这笔钱。

I think NerdWallet said 92% of Americans don't know what the four zero one fees are. So if you don't know what your four zero one fee is, this is your notice to go check what the expense ratio is, and you should know that. So you have very limited options. You're going have to pay a fee, which means somebody on Wall Street is going to be paid forever until you retire. Number two, I can't touch this money until I'm 60 years old, 59.

如果提前支取，我必须支付10%的罚金。第三，整个讨论都是关于税收优惠的，但就像我们之前谈到的，在401k之外也有很多税收优惠可以利用，这就是为什么我个人不喜欢它，但我不代表所有人。对某些人来说，它可能是个不错的选择，因为你的雇主可能会提供3%的匹配。比如，如果你投入3000美元到401k，他们100%匹配，可能也会额外投入3000美元，但与此同时你也承担着相同的风险和顾虑。

If I do, I have to pay a 10% penalty. And number three, the whole discussion is you're doing this for tax benefits, but kind of like we talked about earlier, there's a lot of tax benefits that you can get outside of a four zero one ks, which is why for me, I don't like it, but I'm not everybody. For some people, it can be a great place because your employer might say, We're going to give you a 3% match. So if you invest, let's just say, at $3,000 into your four zero one and they match it 100%, they might also just throw $3,000 into your four zero one k, but you have the same risks and concerns along the way.

说实话，我觉得大多数人甚至不知道养老金是什么。我们知道我们在缴纳，但并不真正了解它的运作机制。前几天我在X上看到一个很有趣的辩论，有人（一位英国男士）说：‘我一辈子都在缴纳养老金’

I don't think most people even know what a pension is, to be honest. I think we pay into it, but we don't really know what's working. And I saw this really interesting debate take place on X the other day where someone was a guy was saying in The UK, I've paid into my pension my whole life

哦。

Oh.

所以他觉得这是他应得的，并且当他需要时养老金就会在那里。然后下面的所有人都在告诉他，养老金并不是一个等你打破的存钱罐。你工作时缴纳的养老金资金，实际上被用于支付当时需要领取养老金的人。

So I deserve it, and it'll be there when I'm ready. And then everyone underneath it was telling him that, by the way, it's not like some piggy bank that you get to break open. The money you paid into a pension was used to pay for the people that needed a pension when you were working.

所以你在谈论美国的社保体系。作为美国的雇员，你必须缴纳社保。也就是你收入的6.2%。所以你要交很多税。你需要为收入缴纳所得税，此外还要交社保税。

So you're talking about Social Security in The United States. As an employee in The United States, you have to pay into Social Security. So 6.2% of your income. So you have a lot of taxes. You're going have to pay income taxes on what you make, and then you have Social Security tax.

也就是说除了所得税外，你还要额外支付收入的6.2%作为社保基金。同时你的雇主也需要缴纳6.2%到这个基金。是的。理论上这笔钱会不断增长和复利。这样当你退休时，就能从这个养老基金每年领取养老金。

So on your income, you're going to pay 6.2% of that separately from your income tax, but 6.2% into the Social Security fund. And then your employer is also going to pay 6.2% into this fund. Yeah. This money, in theory, is supposed to grow and compound. That way, you retire, you have this retirement fund that's going to pay you every single year.

你没有选择权。我的意思是，你可以选择何时提取，但无法自主管理。由政府负责管理。没错。这就是如今美国面临资金短缺的社保体系。

You don't get to choose. I mean, you can choose when you pull it out, but you don't get to do anything with it. The government's going to be in charge. Yeah. This is what is running out of money in The United States today.

为什么？因为现在二三十岁和四十多岁正在缴纳社保的人，他们的缴费并不是为自己养老做准备，而是在为当前退休人员支付社保福利。

Why? Because people that are in their twenties, thirties, and forties that are paying into it today, it's not paying for their retirement. It's paying for the people who are retiring today to pay for their Social Security benefits.

这正是人们不理解的地方。他们以为自己是在往一个储蓄罐里存钱，退休后可以打开这个罐子，终身领取养老金。我之前研究过关于养老金的最大误解，首要误解就是：一旦退休，我的养老金就是终身有保障的。

And that's what people don't understand. They think they're paying into a piggy bank that they get to crack open, and that will pay for them as long as they live for the rest of their life. I was looking at the biggest misconceptions around pensions, and the first one was that my pension is guaranteed money for the entirety of my life once I retire.

嗯，这种说法也有一定道理。至少在美国，确实保证你会终身领取社保直到去世。但他们从不告诉你的是——也没有任何星号标注说明——支票的实际价值会是多少。实际情况是：人们缴纳社保时都以为这能保障自己的退休生活。

Well, there there is some truth to that. The part in in The United States, at least, that you are guaranteed what what the what the wording is that you're gonna get the Social Security until you pass away. But the part that they never tell you, and there's no asterisk about this either, is how much the value of the check will be. So here's what's going on. People are paying into the Social Security fund thinking that they're going to be able to fund their retirement.

历来所有理财顾问都说退休保障是个三脚凳：一是401k等个人退休账户，二是个人储蓄，三是社保。但社保是强制缴纳的，除非你是投资者（投资收入无需缴纳社保税），否则不能退出。你必须一直缴纳直到退休年龄，然后才能提取这笔钱。

Every financial advisor historically has said that retirement is a three legged stool. You have your four zero one ks, your personal retirement. You have your own personal savings, and then you have social security. Well, you pay into social security by force because you don't get to opt out of it unless you are an investor. You don't have to pay your social security income or social security taxes on your investment income, but you pay into this until you hit retirement age, and then you get to pull this money out.

嗯，政府的社会保障资金即将耗尽，但人们误解了这一点，因为他们说，哦，这意味着政府不再支付社会保障金。这不是真的。他们仍然会支付，但他们会通过印钞来支付，这正是你一直在谈论的。所以太好了。他们给你一张更大的支票。

Well, the government is running out of Social Security money, but people misconstrue that because they say, Oh, that means the government is no longer going to pay Social Security. That's not true. They'll still pay it, but they'll just print their way to pay it, which is what you've been talking about. So great. They're giving you a bigger check.

那张更大支票的问题在于，它买不到以前那么多东西。所以，是的，根据美国政府的说法，假设他们不违约，你会收到社会保障支票。只是它无法买到你以前想象的那么多东西。

The problem with that bigger check is that bigger check can't buy you as much stuff. So yeah, based off what the United States government says, assuming that they don't default, you're going to get the Social Security check. It's just not gonna be able to buy you as much as you thought before.

其他常见的误解包括：人们认为雇主存入的钱足够覆盖他们完整的退休生活；他们认为这就像一个储蓄账户；他们认为可以随时取用；他们认为当钱用完时政府会兜底；他们认为直到年老才需要考虑这个问题；最后，他们认为自己的养老金是免税的。

The other big misconceptions are that people think their employer is putting enough in to cover their full retirement. They think it's the same as a savings account. They think they can access it whenever they like. The government will cover them when it runs out, and I don't need to think about it until I'm older. And lastly, my pension pot is tax free.

大约二十年前发生的一个重大转变是从所谓的固定收益制转向固定缴费制。以前在福特或美国航空等公司实行固定收益制，退休后你可以永远获得最后一年工资的60%。这导致所有养老金计划破产，因为人们寿命更长，还有其他各种因素。所以他们改成了固定缴费制。

So the big shift that happened around twenty years ago was a shift from what's known as defined benefit to divine contribution. So defined benefit used to work for Ford or American Airlines or whatever company. You retired, you got 60% of your final year salary forever. That was bankrupting all of these pension plans because people were living longer, all the other stuff. And so they changed it to define contribution.

基本上，你能拿回的就是你投入的加上投资回报。但其中有费用。也许你没有交给好的管理人。也许当被问及'你想投资债券还是股票'时，你选择了债券，结果增长不如预期之类的。

Basically, you get out what you put in plus the investment returns. But there's fees. Maybe you didn't give it to a good manager. Maybe you didn't know when they said, well, do you want to put it in bonds or equities? You're like, bonds, and it didn't grow as much or whatever it was.

最终，你只是不确定...美国婴儿潮一代的平均401k账户余额，我相信大约是10万美元

And in the end, you're just not sure that you're the average $4.00 1 ks in The United States for a baby boomer, I believe, is about $100,000

什么年龄？婴儿潮一代？像65岁吗？是的。我认为现在大概是20万美元左右

What age? A baby boomer? Like 65? Yeah. I think it's right now around $200,000

哦，200美元。好吧，但是

Oh, 200 Okay. But

这还不够退休的。

it's not enough to retire.

200美元不够退休。十年每年20美元。所以美国养老金体系里的钱太少了，尤其是这些人根本没有希望。几年前有个关于这个的视频叫'退休危机'，解释了这个情况，当时火遍全网。对于养老金领取者、婴儿潮一代或千禧一代来说，都没有出路，每个人都必须在这个体系内做出改变来解决这个问题。

200 is not enough to retire. There's ten years of $20 a year. So there's so little money in The US pension system particularly that there is no hope for these people. And this whole video on this called the retirement crisis became a huge viral success years ago, just to explain it. There is no way out of this for the pensioners, the boomers, or the millennials, and everyone's gonna have to change within this to to figure this stuff out.

我想你今天早些时候说过。你谈到了一个庞氏骗局。这里就有一个。但没人愿意这么说，可每个人都在不断投入资金来维持这个体系，它之所以还能运行仅仅是因为有人一直在投钱。问题在于流入的资金不够了。

I think you said it earlier today. You were talking about a Ponzi scheme. Here, you have one. But nobody wants to say that, but everyone is paying in to keep funding this thing, but the only way it's running is because people are paying it in. The problem is there's not enough money coming in.

因为，因为还记得我们一开始讨论的人口结构吗？年轻人越来越少了。

Because Because the remember the remember we talked about at the beginning, the demographics? There's less and less young people.

年轻人越来越少是因为我们生的孩子越来越少了。

There's less and less young people because we're having less babies.

但是退休的人却非常多。而且这种情况会永远持续下去，因为我们还在生孩子，所以现在的婴儿就是二十年后的劳动力。我们可以向前推算这个趋势。它不会停止。

But there's tons of these retired people. So and this keeps going in perpetuity because we're having babies, so that's workers in twenty years' time. The babies now are workers in twenty years' time. We can forward project this. It doesn't stop.

那么我们到底要怎么支付这庞大的婴儿潮一代的费用呢？在美国有7800万婴儿潮人口，这是我国历史上最大的群体。我们根本支付不起

So how the hell are we going to pay for this massive amount of baby boomers, which is in The United States, 78,000,000 of them, our largest cohort in history at the time? We can't pay for

这些费用。这就是为什么有人提议对比特币的价值征税，或者对你的资产价值征税，或者对你的投资收入征税。

them. And this is where the proposals are to tax your Bitcoin, the value of your Bitcoin, or tax the value of your assets, or tax your investment income.

但英国也面临同样的问题。所有富裕国家都面临同样的问题。每个国家都是。

But The UK has got the same. This whole wealth everybody's got the same problem. Everybody.

汉弗莱，你对退休危机有什么看法？

What do think Humphrey in terms of retirement crisis?

我认为，首先我想说，Jesperi和Tinro，你们刚才在讨论社会保障对吧？是的。但我觉得我对退休问题有完全不同的看法。

I think that so I have a different take on well, think, first of all, I think Jesperi, Tinro, you guys were talking and you were talking about Social Security, right? Yeah. But I have a different take on retirement altogether, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为401k计划对普通人很有好处，因为它是一种强制储蓄机制。很多人不会主动往退休账户存钱，除非雇主提供这种计划，对吧？所以匹配机制在行为金融学上是个很好的设计。就像说，好吧，如果我这样做，就能从雇主那里得到一些免费的钱，至少我存了一些钱而不是什么都不存。

I think 401s are good for the average person because it's a forced savings mechanism. A lot of people wouldn't contribute to a retirement account unless the employer offered it, right? And so the whole match thing is a great thing for behavioral finance. It's like, Okay, if I do this, I get some free money from my employer, and at least I'm saving some money instead of nothing.

你是在为那笔钱工作。

You are working for that money.

这是

It's

不完全

not A totally

对于不了解的人来说，401k是指你同意与雇主共同投资一个投资池。

four zero one k for anyone that doesn't understand is you agreed to invest in a investment pot alongside your employer.

它更像是一种个人退休账户，因为你为雇主工作而获得。是的。你可以选择在401k内进行投资，而且401k通常是税收递延的，这意味着你在以后的生活中才为此缴税。

It is more like an individual retirement account that is awarded to you because you work for an employer. Yeah. You have the option to invest within a four zero one k, and that four zero one k is typically tax deferred, which means that you pay taxes on it later in life.

那和社保有什么区别？

And what's the difference between that and a Social Security?

社保是一个政府项目，要求你每份薪水都投入其中，进入这个大池子。然后当你退休时，政府会每月寄给你一张社保支票。

A Social Security is a government program where you are required to pay into it every paycheck that goes into this big pot. And then when you do retire, the government will send you a Social Security check every month.

好的。

Okay.

但我仍然认为有很多方式可以退休，并且带着某种自由退休。提前退休。你之前听说过'海岸财务自由'(Coast Fire)吗？

But I I still think that there are plenty of ways to retire and retire with some sort of freedom. Retire early. Have you heard of Coast Fire before?

没有。

No.

海岸财务自由是另一个较新的概念，主要在Reddit上流行，它是财务独立提前退休(FIRE)的一个变体。本质上，你将自己的'养老蛋'积累到一定程度后，之后就不需要再投入一分钱，因为假设你达到了某个特定数字——这个数字通常相当合理——如果你投资于标普500指数，其投资回报足以让你在65岁正常退休时实现完全退休。所以这并不意味着你完全提前退休，而是意味着如果你达到了所谓的'海岸财务自由数字'，你在选择工作内容上可能会有更多自由。比如，也许你不需要再为你极其讨厌的雇主工作，你可以去做一些更符合你生活方式的事情。

Coastfire is another newer thing that's, that's kind of on Reddit, but it's a variation of financial independence retire early. And it's essentially you get your nest egg to a point where you don't have to invest any dollar into it after that, but because you get it to, let's say, a certain number, and that number is usually pretty reasonable, the investment returns if you're invested in the S and P 500 will get you to a full retirement by the time you are able to retire at 65. So it doesn't mean you retire early completely, but it means that if you get to your coast fire number, which is what it's called, maybe you have more freedom of choice in what you're working on. So, like, maybe you don't have to work for the employer that you absolutely hate. You can maybe go do something that's a little bit more suited to your lifestyle.

你仍然在工作，但不再是为了储蓄退休金而工作，因为你已经达到了那个海岸财务自由数字。举个例子，在35岁时，我认为海岸财务自由数字大约是15万美元。如果你能在35岁前存到15万，假设有30年的投资回报率是8%，到你退休时你将拥有150万美元，这对那些难以理解'我到底能不能退休'的人来说更容易接受。他们不会完全退休，不会在阿鲁巴的沙滩上翘着脚享受，但你仍然会做些事情。我个人认为，如果我完全退休，无所事事会无聊透顶的，对吧？

You're still working, but you're not working to save for retirement anymore because you hit that coast fire number. So for example, at the age of 35, I think the coast fire number is like $150,000 If you can hit 150 ks by '35, if you have thirty years of investment returns at eight percent, you'll have $1,500,000 by the time you retire, which is a little bit more palatable for people that are having a hard time wrapping their heads around, am I ever going to retire? They're not going to retire in that they're not going to be kicking up their feet on the sand beaches of Aruba, but you're still going to be doing something. And I I personally think if I was retired, I'd be so bored out of my mind doing nothing. Right?

所以我更愿意做些事情。关键在于，你不需要再为你讨厌的工作或类似的事情而工作。

So I'd like to work on something. The idea is you just don't have to work for maybe the job you hate or something like that.

所以如果我存到了15万美元，嗯。然后我把它投入标普500指数并获得

So if I hit the $150,000 in savings Mhmm. And I put it into the S and P 500 and get the

8%的回报率。

8% return.

8%的回报率。到65岁时，我就能有150万左右。

8% return. By the age of 65, I'll have 1 point something million.

150.9万。是的。

1.509. Yeah.

那到时候实际价值是多少呢？

What's that worth then?

说得对。就是这样。这就是等式的另一部分——考虑通货膨胀后，它实际会值多少？

That's true. There that's it. That is another part of the equation is with inflation, what is it gonna be worth?

这就是你想达到的目标吗？因为我记得一小时前你说过，你只是想提前退休，大意如此。

And is this what you're trying to do? Because I remember an hour ago, you said, I'm just trying to retire earlier words to that effect.

是的。我的意思是，我希望实现' coastfire'（半退休财务自由）。而coastfire，你可以按自己喜欢的方式定义。但我觉得自己已经接近甚至可能已经达到了，就是能够从事自己热爱的工作，并且我相信我的退休储备金最终会增长到足够我在60、65岁时进入半退休状态。

Yeah. I mean, I'd like to be coastfire. And coastfire is, you know, however you would like to define it. But, you know, I already think I'm close, or if not, I've already reached it, which is like I get to work on the things that I love, and I I think that my retirement nest egg will eventually grow to a point where by the time I hit 60, 65, I'll be able to coast.

所以你是创建了一个数字，计算了需要达到的目标吗？是的。好的。

So did you did you create a number, do the math on what you'd need to get to? Yes. Okay.

是的。你可以预估一下你认为的年支出，然后倒推回那个数字。好的。对。涉及很多计算，但你必须得做。

Yeah. So you can project out your expenses of what you think your expenses are going to be on an annual basis, and then kind of work backwards to that number. Okay. Yeah. A lot of math involved, but you kinda have to do it.

想用ChatGPT之类的工具吗？

Do want to chat GPT or something?

嗯。用

Yeah. Do

吧。退休危机。这令人担忧。这令人担忧。所以你的方法是采用海岸FIRE策略？

it. Retirement crisis. That's concerning. That's concerning. So your approach is to do the coast fire thing?

我的方法是保持纪律性，坚持储蓄和投资，真正实现可能退休的状态。

My approach is let's stay disciplined, consistent with our savings and investing, and actually get to a place where retirement might be possible.

我是说，我很喜欢这个想法，这和我开始实践‘显化你的命运’时一样。当然。你说，我需要这个目标。怎么实现？我们这样做，并让投资增长。

I mean, I I love that idea, and that's the same as when I started with the manifesting your your destiny. Sure. You say, well, I need this goal. How do I do it? We do this and grow up our investments.

对吧？这样做非常明智。然后你就可以承担更多风险。当然。如果你把它独立出来，说，我现在建造的任何胶囊舱，我可以随心所欲，这和我对家的想法是一样的。

Right? It's it's brilliant to do that. And then you can take more risk. Sure. If you isolate that and say, well, any capsule I build now, I can do whatever I want, that was the same idea that I had with the home.

确切地说，就像我已经降低了生活的风险。现在我可以承担风险，这真是件好事。我喜欢你通过说'未来的我想要这个'来实现它的方式。嗯。为了做到这一点，我现在需要做这个。

It's exact it's like I've derisked my life. Now I can take risk, and that's a really nice thing to do. And I love the way that you do it by saying, well, my future self wants this. Mhmm. For me to do that, need to do this now.

嗯。然后它就应该能处理好那件事。当然其中总是有风险的，需要想象一下，但确实如此。

Mhmm. And then it should take care of that. Now it's all there's always risk in it and imagine, but yeah.

然后你就有多余的钱可以做任何你想做的事。

And then you have extra dollars to do whatever you want with.

确实。我也很欣赏你对自己喜欢什么和了解什么一直很自律。是的。我很感激这一点。谢谢。

True. I also love that you've been disciplined on what you like and what you know. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you.

因为你说过我认为90%的资金都在指数基金和ETF里。

Because you said I think 90% are in index funds and ETFs.

这就是我会推荐给人们的做法。

That's what I would recommend for people.

哦，抱歉。

Oh, sorry.

好的。就我个人而言，我大约60%的资金投在指数基金里。

Okay. For me personally, I'm like 60% index funds.

但即便如此，这个比例还是相当高的，而且能够避免那种，你知道的，闪亮物体综合症或不管你怎么称呼它。我的意思是

But still, that's that's pretty high and and not having that, you know, shiny object syndrome or whatever you wanna call it. I mean, that

我没有指责我有

I'm not accusing me of having

闪亮物体。我是想让大家都能参与进来。是的。但不管是什么，能够保持纪律性。我认为这是一种非常宝贵的特质。

shiny objects. I was trying to engage everybody here. Yeah. But but whatever it might be to to to be disciplined. I I think that's such a valuable trait.

而且，你知道，你谈到了稀缺心态。我认为那也是一种你拥有的纪律性思维，所以我会重新表述这一点，我认为你已经

And, you know, you talked about the scarcity mindset. Think that's also a disciplined mindset that you have that so I I would I would reframe that, and I think you've

做得非常出色。我认为个人理财是个性化的。好了，各位。我想我接到史蒂夫了。嘉宾已经到了。

done an excellent job. I think personal finance is personal. Alright, guys. I think I got Steve. The guest is here.

准备好了吗？进来吧。

Ready? Come in.

天哪，史蒂夫。

Oh my god, Steve.

你在做什么？这是Boncharge面膜。对瑕疵、皱纹有好处，能清洁皮肤。这是红光。你以前没用过吗？

What are you doing? This is Boncharge face mask. It's good for blemishes, wrinkles, clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before?

没有。以前没试过这个。它真的非常非常好。它用红光照射你的脸，有助于增加和促进胶原蛋白的产生。其实是因为我太太才发现的。

No. Haven't tried this before. It's it's really, really good. It shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. Actually found it out because of the missus.

看到她戴着它，连续几个晚上都吓到我了。我以为它是用来吓人的，但实际上，它对皮肤真的非常非常好。所以他们是播客的赞助商，我每天使用它已经大约一年半了。

Seeing her wearing it, she terrified me a couple of nights in a row. I thought it was to scare people with, but actually, it's really, really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast, and I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.

哪里呢，好吧，史蒂夫，你这个太棒了。

Where are Well, Steve, you've got this great.

是的。而且，Boncharge全球发货，退货方便，所有产品都有一年保修。所以请访问boncharge.com/diary，全站任何产品均可享受25%折扣。但你必须通过那个链接订购。那就是boncharge.com/diary，使用代码diary。

Yes. And, Boncharge ships worldwide with easy returns and a year long warranty on all of their products. So visit boncharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product site wide. But you have to order through that link. That's boncharge.com/diary with code diary.

请务必对我接下来要说的话保密。我将邀请你们中的10,000人更深入地走进《CEO日记》。欢迎来到我的核心圈子。这是我向世界推出的一个全新的私人社区。我们有太多精彩的内容从未向你们展示过。

Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown.

我们有录制对话时我iPad上的简报，有从未发布的剪辑片段，有与嘉宾的幕后对话，还有我们从未播出过的剧集，以及更多内容。在这个圈子里，你们可以直接联系到我。你们可以告诉我们希望这个节目变成什么样，希望我们采访谁，以及希望我们进行哪种类型的对话。

We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have.

但请记住，目前我们只邀请前10,000名在关闭前加入的成员。所以，如果你想加入我们的私人封闭社区，请点击下方描述中的链接，或访问d0accircle.com。我会在那里与你们交流。说到纪律这一点，汉弗莱，我看过你的几个视频，你谈到了你停止花钱的一些方面。有一种说法是，为了致富、储蓄或实现财务目标，你不应该喝星巴克咖啡。

But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you wanna join our private close community, head to the link in the description below or go to d0accircle.com. I will speak to you there. On that point of discipline, Humphrey, I have seen a couple of videos from you where you talk about the things that you stopped spending money on. And there is a narrative that says, you know, in order to get rich or to save or to get to where you wanna go with your financial goals, you should not have the Starbucks coffee.

确实。你不应该做这些事。你停止了哪些消费？你的框架是什么？

Sure. You should not do these things. What what did you stop spending money on, and what's your framework there?

我回顾了从2014年至今的支出，看了看我的消费习惯发生了哪些变化。我停止消费的第一样东西是爱彼迎（Airbnb）。爱彼迎曾经性价比很高，能提供独特的体验，但如今它们都商业化了。我觉得加上清洁费等各种费用，你最终花的钱比酒店还多，却没那么方便。

So I looked at I took a look into my expenses from 2014 and onward and just kind of, like, saw the differences in how my spending habits have changed. The first thing I stopped spending money on are Airbnbs. So Airbnbs used to be a great value. They used to be a unique experience, but these days they're all kind of commercialized. And I feel like with the cleaning fees and all these fees, you end up paying more for less convenience as a hotel.

这是第一点。我停止批量购买食物。我知道这听起来有点随机，但我是一个人住。有时候我买两加仑牛奶，喝不完，对吧？

So that's number one. I stopped buying food in bulk. I know that sounds kind of random, but I'm a single guy. Sometimes I I get two gallons of milk and I can't finish it. Right?

结果我只能把牛奶倒掉。或者我从好市多一次买48个鸡蛋，然后我就想，老兄，我喜欢健身，但我也没法在两周左右的时间里吃完48个鸡蛋，对吧？所以这是另一点。还有一件事是我开始更换车险，因为我搬到了旧金山市里，开车变少了。

So I'm pouring milk down the drain. Or I'm buying 48 eggs at a time from Costco, and I'm just like, dude, like, I I mean, I like the gym, but I can't eat 48 eggs in like two weeks or whatever that that time is, right? So that's that's another. And then another thing I did was I started to switch my car insurance because I moved into San Francisco, the city. I'm driving less.

所以我以前每年开15,000英里。现在每年只开3,000英里。仅仅通过打电话给我的汽车保险公司，我每月就能省下大约40美元，就因为我的驾驶需求大大减少了。所以这些就像是...解释一下。对。

So I used to drive 15,000 miles a year. I drive 3,000 miles a year now. And just by calling my car insurance, I was able to save like $40 a month just because my driving requirements are much lower. So those are like Explain that. Yeah.

所以，你知道，汽车保险费率取决于你开车的多少。如果你开车少了，搬到了城市里，那么你的费率应该会下降。但我觉得有些人对他们的保险公司有点太忠诚了。他们不愿意比较费率，因为这很麻烦。你其实不想做这件事。

So, you know, a car insurance rates are dependent on how much you drive. And if you drive less and you move to a city, then your rates should come down. But I think some people are a little bit too loyal to their providers. They're not willing to compare rates because it's painful. You don't really want to do it.

这需要时间。但我认为这样做，花一个小时打电话给你的保险公司，看看不同的保险公司，不仅是汽车的，还有房屋的，你可以省下很多钱，因为保险有点商品化了。所以就像是你可以从很多不同的提供商那里获得保障。你不如让他们为你的业务竞相出价。

It takes time. But I think doing that, spending an hour calling your insurance provider, looking at different insurance providers, not just for cars but for homes, too, you can save a lot of money because insurance is kind of commoditized. So it's like you're going to get coverage from many different providers. You might as well put them kind of in a bidding war for your business.

我以前卖过汽车保险。所以，你知道，那是我的一份电话销售工作。

I used to work selling car insurance. So, you know, I used to it was one of my telesales jobs.

我也做过那个。

I've done that as well.

是的。那...那挺有意思的。我觉得人们不知道这个。但当我坐在汽车保险呼叫中心时，屏幕上有一个条，我可以向左右移动，基本上根据销售进展给你折扣。所以如果我真的觉得要失去你这单生意了，我只需要把条向左滑，就能降低你的首期付款和月付。

Yeah. And that that was interesting there. Don't think people know this. But as I sat there in the the car insurance call center, there's this bar on the screen that I can move in either direction to basically give you a discount based on how the sale is going. So if I really think I'm gonna lose your sale, all I do is slide the bar to the left, and it brings your your upfront payment down and your monthly payment down.

嗯。但如果我觉得这单生意很容易，我就可以把条向上移，提高我报给你的价格，并推销给你故障保险和其他所有这些附加服务。所以我觉得人们没有意识到他们所有的保险都是可以协商的，甚至是他们的手机保险和其他所有这些东西。有时候直到你说你要退保，他们才会突然给你一些很棒的优惠，比如给你打五折。是的。

Mhmm. But if I thought the sale was easy, I could bring the bar up in terms of the price I quote you and give you breakdown insurance and all these other upsells. And so I don't think people realize how negotiable all of their insurances are, even their their phone insurance and all these other things. And sometimes you don't figure out until you you say you're gonna quit, and then suddenly they give you some great offer where they're gonna give you 50% off. Yep.

是的。另一种处理方式是我从不真正为成本而销售，而是为收入而销售。好的。也就是说，也就是说，好吧。

Yeah. And the other way of approaching it is I never really sold for costs. I sold for income. Okay. And that is saying that is saying, okay.

你的生活方式，只要不过分荒唐，对吧，就像，我真的不想去餐厅或点Uber Eats外卖之类的吗？

Your lifestyle, as long as you're not being ridiculous, right, is like, do I really want to not go to a go to a restaurant or get that Uber Eats or whatever?

明白。

Understand.

是的。因为那是在惩罚自己。而且这并不总是件好事，对吧？这需要很大的自律，而自律是很难的。

Yeah. Because that's penalizing yourself. And that's not a nice thing to do always. Right? It takes a lot of discipline, and discipline is hard.

但如果你在解决收入问题上投入同等且相反的自律，你实际上会让你的生活方式更进一步。所以，我同时做三、四份工作。你做三、四份——我们现在都做很多不同的事情。你也是。我们都有不同的收入来源。

But if you've got an equal an opposite amount of discipline in solving for income, you actually move your lifestyle further ahead. So the rise of I I do three, four jobs. You do three, four we all do lots of different things now. You do as well. We've all got different income streams.

你几乎更应该把精力花在思考如何增加收入来源，而不是你的成本基础上。在某个点上，我们都同意，就像给史蒂文发消息的那位朋友，他迫切需要挽救他的成本基础。但总的来说，如果你在规划人生，通过解决收入问题，你会比解决成本问题更快达到你的‘海岸财务自由’（coast fire），或者不管它叫什么。

You're almost better off to spend your energy thinking about how do I increase my income stream than your cost basis. A certain point, we agree, like Steven's friend who sent him the message, he needs to desperately rescue his cost base. But generally, if you're looking at a life plan, you'll get to your coast fire, or whatever it's called, by solving for income than you will for cost.

我只是觉得更容易实现的是解决开支问题，就像每个人都能稍微削减一点，但并不是每个人都能说，我明天就要赚两倍的钱。那是个更难的问题。而且我觉得如果你想要 为什么

I just think lower hanging fruit is solving for expenses, which is like everyone can cut back a little bit, but everyone can't just like say, I'm gonna make two x more tomorrow. That's kind of a harder problem. And I think if you want Why

你不就是在用时间做交换吗？因为我的意思是，你可以。如果你从事的是收入较低的工作，嗯。你可以开优步赚外快，或者做点兼职

don't you just trade off your time? Because you I mean, you can. If you're in a lower earning job Mhmm. You can drive an Uber and earn extra money, or you can do a bargain

我明白你的意思

what you're saying.

是的。现在多重收入来源已经成为世界运转的方式，因为生活成本变得如此昂贵，嗯。每个人都不得不做多份工作。但借助科技，我们实际上可以更轻松地实现这一点

Yeah. It's like multiple revenue streams is now the way the world works, because the cost of living has become so expensive Mhmm. That everyone's having to do multiple jobs. But with technology, we can actually do it much easier.

不过我也同意汉弗莱的观点，今天你或许只需带份便当就能获得30%的加薪效果，当然。或者步行去某处等等。而要真正获得30%的加薪可能反而更难

I to Humphrey's point as well, though, you can get a 30% pay rise today just by maybe bringing a packed lunch or Sure. Walking somewhere or whatever else. And it's probably harder to get a 30% pay rise.

今天能不能实现可不好说

Not sure about today.

我认为这取决于你处于人生的哪个阶段。就拿带午餐这个例子来说，现在如果你坚持带午餐，打包午餐是需要花费时间的。根据你时间的价值，这一小时可能值20美元，也可能值2000美元——我认为这是关键区别。确实有些时候和地方必须节省开支，这方面我完全同意你的看法

I think it depends on which stage of life you're in. Because now if you just stick with a lunch if you're on the lunch example, packing lunch costs time. And depending on how much your time is worth, that one hour of time could be $20 It could be $2,000 And I think that's key difference. And I think there's definitely times and places you gotta cut. Fully agree with you on that.

我认为在某个阶段是这样的。我在很多方面仍然很节省，但涉及到时间时——我们办公室在底特律市中心，我通勤需要四十五分钟。但我不自己开车，我的做法是雇人开车送我去。这样做的原因是我可以坐在后座工作

I think at a certain stage look. I'm I have still cheap with my money in multiple places, but I have when it comes to time so our office is in Downtown Detroit, and my commute there is forty five minutes. And but I don't drive. What I do is I get driven there. And the reason why I do that is because I can sit in the back seat and work.

我们每天都会发布财经新闻。所以有时候我们的市场简报会出现一些重要情况。如果我正在开车，我不想边发短信边驾驶。因此，我会选择叫优步或其他服务，花45分钟去，45分钟回，每天都要从账户里支出一笔钱。但我换回了一个半小时的时间，这远比支付给司机的费用有价值得多。

And one of the things that we publish daily financial news. So sometimes something will be happening with our market briefs where, oh, is important. And if I'm driving, I don't wanna be texting and driving. So instead, I pay for an Uber or whatever, and I go that forty five minutes there, forty five minutes back, and it's money out of my account every single day. But I get back an hour and a half of my time, which is worth way more than whatever I'm paying in my driver fees.

所以我觉得这取决于你处于人生的哪个阶段，因为如果是在很早以前，我是不会这样做的。

So I I think it depends on where you are in this stage of life because I wouldn't do that if this was way before.

最大的问题是——这是个开放性问题，问大家：你认为普通人最常犯的金钱错误是什么？

What is the biggest for this is an open question to everybody. What do you think the biggest money mistake the average person makes is?

他们把所有的钱都花光了。就是那两个'S'。你花光了所有的钱，而如果你过了那个阶段，你又开始把所有

They spend all their money. The the two s's. You you're spending all of your money, and if you get past that, then you're saving all

的钱都存起来。

of your money.

两者都是错误吗？

Both of them are mistakes?

两者都是错误。

Both of them are mistakes.

所以就让你的钱闲置在银行账户里什么都不做。

So just having your money sat in a bank account doing nothing.

你每天都在变得更穷。

You're becoming poorer every single day.

我觉得大多数人都不知道这一点。我有个朋友，他的银行余额一直在稳步增长，我记得问他，你现在银行账户里有多少钱？他采取了一种非常缓慢的方式。他是一名自由职业者，经营着自己的生意。然后他说，我想大概有一百万美元吧。

I don't think most people know this. I've got a friend who's steadily compounded his his bank balance over time, and I remember asking him, so how much money do you now have in your bank account? He's taken a really slow approach over time. He runs a business as a freelance. And he goes, I think probably about a million dollars.

我当时就说，这些钱就只是放在你的银行账户里？他说，是的。因为他害怕。他就像，害怕不知道该怎么处理这些钱，所以觉得存在银行账户里是最安全的选择。

I was like, it's just sat in your bank account. He was like, yeah. And because he's scared. He's Like, scared he doesn't know what to do with it, so he thinks just putting it in the bank account is the safest possible thing to do.

嗯，这是一种必然的损失。如果你的银行账户——今天美国的普通银行账户，不是高收益账户，而是普通账户——利率只有0.1%、0.5%，不知道，反正超级低。如果我们假设通货膨胀率是3%，意味着你从银行账户取钱购买东西的成本每年上涨3%，这还是报告的数字，不是很多人感受到的实际通胀率。那么，这意味着净损失了2.5%。所以，如果我有一百万美元在那里，那就是损失了2.5万美元的购买力。

Well, it's a guaranteed loss. If your if your bank account the average bank account in The United States today, not the high yield accounts, but the average account is paying 0.1%, 0.5%, don't know, something super low. If we just say inflation is 3%, meaning the cost you have to spend out of the bank account to buy something is going up by 3%, and that's the reported numbers, not the real inflation that many people feel, well, that means there's a net loss of two and a half percent on that. So if I have a million dollars there, that's $25,000 of lost buying power.

Roel，你觉得公司——因为我的很多听众都是公司，无论是一个人公司还是大公司——你认为他们应该把闲置在账户里的钱投入比特币吗？

Roel, do you think companies because a lot of my audience are companies, whether they're, you know, one person companies or big companies. Do think they should be putting their money that they have sat in their account into Bitcoin?

本质上，如果你是微软，他们拥有巨额现金储备。微软用他们的现金买什么？实际上，他们会买一些投资产品，但通常是现金类的。然后他们可能会收购另一家公司，或者购买房地产数据中心，比如说，或者回购自己的股票。他们购买的这三样东西都受到货币贬值的驱动，而且每年都在变得更贵。

In essence, if you're Microsoft, they have huge cash piles. What does Microsoft buy with their cash? Really, they buy some investment stuff, but it's generally cash based. And then they may buy another company, or they may buy real estate data centers, let's say or they may buy their own shares back. All of those three things that they buy are driven by the debasement of currency, and they get more expensive every year.

而且他们持有的现金回报率只有3.5%。所以他们现在的做法很愚蠢，因为实际上，股东的所有现金并没有购买那些真正驱动公司价值的等价物。

And they're holding a cash return of three and a half percent. So it's stupid what they're doing because, actually, all your shareholder cash is not buying the equivalent of the actual things that drive the value of the company.

那么小公司呢？如果现在有听众的公司银行账户里有100万、200万资金，可能并不完全需要这些钱来维持现金流，该怎么办？

So what about small companies? What if there's people listening now that have companies where they've got 1,000,000, 2,000,000 in the bank, they probably don't need it all for cash flow reasons?

所以我认为投资与储蓄确实被误解了——回到你最初的问题。我认为投资重要得多。我年轻时曾犯过当储蓄者的错误，因为对风险的恐惧让我变得极度风险规避。虽然我是投资银行家，名义上在做投资，但实际上并没有真正投资。

And so I do think that investing versus saving is misunderstood, to go back to your original question. I think investing is much more important. I made the mistake of being a saver when I was young because the the fear that all of that stuff meant I was super risk averse. And I was an investment banker. I was investing, but I didn't.

我通过那个行业赚了钱，于是就想着囤积现金。这样做反而让我损失更大。直到我们看到银行系统崩溃，我才醒悟不能再这样下去了。我要掌控自己的财务。企业也是同样的道理。

So I made money from being in that industry, so I'm like, I'm just gonna hoard cash. I did worse for doing that. And then once we saw the banking system fail, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm gonna take control of my own finances. So the same is true of a business.

如果企业在产生现金，就不应该持有大量现金，但保持一些流动性投资会大有裨益。这样既能让你和股东的现金增值，又很重要的一点是：不要失去流动性。因为当你真正需要现金却没有时——特别是这些钱还是你辛苦攒下来的——那将是世界上最糟糕的事情。

If they're generating cash, they shouldn't be sitting on a massively large amount of cash, but some liquid investments, I think, massively help. Because you're going to make your cash grow for you and your shareholders. And that's important. But don't let go of your liquidity, because when you really need it and you don't have cash, that's the worst thing in the world, particularly when you've saved the money.

那么在Real Vision的企业银行账户里

So in your business bank account for Real Vision

是的。

Yeah.

你会把部分资金投入加密货币吗？

Do you put some of the the money into crypto?

这要看情况。很大一部分会重新投资用于公司内部增长。好的。所以你在做决策时考虑的是：你的资本将如何增长？是通过业务再投资来提升股价吗？

It depends. A lot of it gets reinvested for growth within the company. Okay. So you're making the decision as, how's your capital going to grow? Is it going to grow your share price via reinvesting in the business?

还是利用储蓄池购买其他投资以实现多元化更合适？这真的取决于你的业务及其在增长周期中的阶段。但如果你是一家现金流稳定、常规的非增长型企业，那么你会持续产生现金。可能已经提取了部分开发分红，买了房子，完成了所有那些事情。是的。

Or is it better to use the savings pool and buy other investments and diversify away? That really depends on your business, where it is in the growth cycle. But if you're like a cash generating, regular, non growth style business, then you're going to be generating cash. You might have taken some dev dividends out and book bought a house and done all that thing. Yeah.

没有理由不采取一些相对保守的投资策略。汉弗莱，

There's no reason not to do some relatively conservative investment strategy. Humphrey,

你曾与许多富人合作并为他们提供建议。在金钱方面，富人知道哪些普通人不知道的事情？因为当你窥见幕后时，会发现一些金钱游戏。他们在用钱做什么，是普通人没有意识到或无法做到的？

you worked with lots of rich people advising them. What is it that rich people know that the average person doesn't know as it relates to money? Because there are money games that you discover when you get to see behind the curtain. What is it that they're doing with their money that the average person isn't aware of or isn't able to do with their money?

富人通常更有纪律性。他们通常每天都会查看银行账户，对吧？他们做一些小事，这些小事在十年或二十年后会复合成巨大的成果，而且他们思考的是几十年，而不仅仅是这周要做什么，对吧？

Rich people are typically more disciplined. They're they're typically checking their bank account every day. Right? They're they're doing little things that compound into huge results at the end of ten or twenty years, and they're they're thinking in decades, not just what am I going to do this week? Right?

他们为自己选择的是十年、二十年后的投资选项，而不是选择当晚花1000英镑赌足球比赛。因为他们知道，今天为他们工作的1000英镑在十年或二十年后将价值1万或2万英镑。所以这更像是一种长期思维与短期思维的区别。

They're choosing investment choices for themselves in ten years, twenty years from now, instead of choosing sports betting on the football match for £1,000 that night. Because they know that their thousand pounds working for them today will be worth, you know, 10,000, 20,000 in ten or twenty years. So it's more just like a long term mindset versus a short term mindset.

就像延迟满足。延迟

Like delaying gratification. Delaying

满足。是的。

gratification. Yes.

你在下面写什么？

What were you writing down there?

我在写这个体系是如何偏向富人的。这非常不可思议，因为正如查理·芒格所说：给我看激励机制，我就能告诉你结果。一旦你拥有——不是10万美元，而是银行账户里有1000万美元的人——他们能获得所谓的无追索权贷款。这太不寻常了，因为和你的朋友不同，他们不必偿还。

I was writing down how the system is rigged in the favor of rich people. It's extraordinary because it's it's the Charlie Munger quote of show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome. What people get once you get it's not the 100,000, but it's like the people who've got $10,000,000 in their bank account. They get loans that are called nonrecourse loans. It's an extraordinary thing because unlike your friend, they don't have to pay it back.

所以无追索权贷款意味着你最终对贷款不承担法律责任。当然，会有一些操作条款。但为什么他们要这样做？为什么他们能获得这些优惠条件？为什么他们能在股票上市前获得私募配售？

So a non recourse loan means you're not legally liable for the loan in the end. Now, there'll be some provisions on how to do it. But why are they doing this? Why are they getting these favorable terms? Why are they getting the private placements in stocks before they go public?

为什么他们能获得所有最好的offer？因为他们支付费用。因为他们向投资银行支付费用，而投行极度需要这些人，因为他们有大量的金融活动，所以投行会激励他们。我们普通人根本接触不到这些。这和我一开始谈到的对冲基金行业的情况如出一辙。

Why are they getting all the best offers? Because they pay fees. Because they pay fees to the investment banks, and the investment banks desperately want these people because they have a lot of financial activity, and so they incentivize them. None of us get a look in at all of that. It's the same thing that I talked about with the hedge fund industry in the beginning.

就像他们被激励去获取比其他人更优质的信息。我认为部分原因在于，我们想告诉人们的是：你不必玩同样的游戏。你不必向任何人支付费用。你买一个比特币，存在Coinbase或任何地方，运行成本为零，而且你的表现会超过风险投资家。还有像买入指数基金这样简单的方式。

It's like they were incentivized by a phase to get information that was better than everybody else. And I think part of that is the ability that all we're trying to say to people is you don't have to play the same game. You don't have to pay anybody's fees. You buy a Bitcoin, stick it in your Coinbase thing or wherever, It costs you nothing to run, and you're outperforming a venture capital investor. There's simple things like buying an index fund.

你不需要为主动管理向华尔街机构支付数千美元。有办法破解这个系统，而且成本并不高。

You're not paying the Wall Street complex thousands of dollars for active management. There's ways of hacking this, and it's not that expensive to do.

在我们转向Jaspreet之前，我想你们两位都略有提及且你早先说到的一点是关于关系如何创造财富。因为当我与那位亿万富翁坐在公寓里时，我观察到的是——他的朋友和过去与他做过生意的联系人获得了分配，即在这家公司上市前进行投资的优先分配权，这意味着第二天他们的投资就会翻倍。但这些都是关系带来的。所以，如果存在积累财富的策略，它又回到了Ralph开始时说的，与人交往并拥有良好关系实际上是非常被低估的一点。我有个朋友，我可以说出他的名字，叫Harry Stubbings。

Just before we move to Jaspreet, one of the things that I think you kind of both alluded to a little bit and you said earlier on was about how relationships make money. And because what I was watching when I sat in that apartment with this billionaire is his friends and his contacts who had done business with him in the past were getting the allocation, the prime allocation of being able to invest just before this company went public, which means that the next day it would multiply. But those were relationships. So if if there is a strategy to to build wealth, it goes back to what Ralph said at the start, being around people and having good relationships is actually, I think, really, really unappreciated. I've got a friend, I can name my friend, called Harry Stubbings.

他运营一个名为20 VC的播客。在那个播客上，他与极其富有的人对话。Harry的播客没有Joe Rogan的那么大。但由于Harry与地球上最富有的人进行了两小时的对话并持续这样做，他建立了欧洲最大的投资基金之一，尤其是作为一个二十多岁的年轻人。我想，如果我没记错的话，他仅凭关系就筹集了7.5亿美元。

He runs a podcast called 20 VC. And on that podcast, he sits with extremely rich people. The podcast Harry's podcast isn't as big as Joe Rogan's. But because Harry has had two hour conversations with the richest people on planet Earth and continues to do so, He's built one of the biggest investment funds in Europe, especially as like a guy in his twenties. I mean, I think he's raised, if I'm not mistaken, 750,000,000 just from the relationships.

他对我说，你知道，我过去五到十年建立的最大价值杠杆不是浏览量。有人比他浏览量更高。而是他认识所有有钱人。我认为我们在思考财富创造时低估了这一点，因为如果你能像Rael说的那样，接近富人，以某种方式帮助他们，建立那些关系，它会带来回报，而且是永远的回报，对吧？

And he said to me, he said, you know, the biggest value leverage I've built in the last five, ten years isn't like the views. People have more views than him. It's he he knows everyone rich. And and I think we underestimate that when we think about wealth creation because if you can do what Rael said and get around rich people Yeah. Help them in some way, build those relationships, it pays dividends, what, forever?

有一位很棒的人叫Divesh Makan，他在旧金山经营一家名为Iconic的投资公司。他和我差不多同时进入高盛，是一名年轻的投资银行家。但他二月份被聘入了互联网银行团队。他到了办公室，但一个月后，整个团队都没了。所有人都被解雇了。

There's a there's a great guy called Divesh Makan who runs a firm, an investment firm in in San Francisco called Iconic. He was a young investment banker at Goldman around the same time when I started there as well. But he was was hired into the Internet banking team at in February. He turned up the office, but a month later, the entire thing was gone. Everybody was fired.

而他太年轻了，资历太浅，以至于公司都懒得解雇他。他们解雇了所有资深银行家。他在想，我该怎么办？我觉得他当时没有上司了。

And he was too young. He was kind of too junior to bother to fire. They fired all the senior bankers. And he thought, well, what do I do? I think he had no bosses left.

所以他基本上就是去了硅谷，在咖啡店里闲逛，交朋友。他碰巧交到的朋友包括Mark Zuckerberg、Reed Hastings、Reed Hoffman等所有人。但后来他成了他们在高盛的财富顾问，把所有业务都转到了摩根士丹利，然后创建了自己的公司Iconic。Iconic规模巨大，为这些硅谷人士管理所有财富，这一切都源于他在别人不愿与这些随机创业的家伙交谈时（因为经历了大萧条）建立的网络，他整个人生都靠那个网络成就了。

So he just basically went to Silicon Valley and hung out in coffee shops and made friends. The people he happened to make friends with, with Mark Zuckerberg, Reed Hastings, Reed Hoffman, all these people. But he then became their wealth adviser at Goldman, moved it all to Morgan Stanley, and then built his own firm Iconic. And Iconic is massive. Runs all the wealth for these Silicon Valley people from this network of meeting these random dudes building businesses when nobody else wanted to speak to them because they'd gone through the big bust, and he made his entire life on that network.

天才。

Genius.

可能就在那家我花光了所有比特币的咖啡馆。

Probably at that cafe where I spent all my Bitcoin.

就是那扇金色门的店。你当时也在那里，发送比特币时旁边有个流浪汉吗？有意思的是，当我们谈论金钱系统和所有这些事物时，从来没人讨论过管理人际关系的系统。而我们大多数人管理人际关系的方式就是拿到某人的号码

The one with the gold door. You were there at the same time sending was there a bum on Bitcoin? Interesting because when we talk about systems and all these things for money, nobody ever talks about a system for managing your relationships. And the way that most of us manage our relationships is we get someone's number

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后希望我们会再次相遇。但我觉得，我甚至在想这个问题。你显然做了这个播客，让我遇到这么多优秀的人。我应该有个更好的系统来理解这些关系，我如何能为这些人提供服务，了解他们的生日等等各种事情。这不仅对我的心理健康有好处，能交到更多朋友，减少各种社会心理层面的问题，而且从商业角度来说，未来总会有机会——无论是六年后我需要你的建议时。

And we hope that we'll cross paths again. But I think I even think I'm thinking about it. You obviously do this podcast where I meet so many great people. I should have a much better system for understanding those relationships, how I can be of service to those people, understanding their birthdays, and all these other kinds of things. And not only would that be good for my mental health and more friends, less like all these kinds of sort of social psychological things, but in business terms, there's gonna be opportunities whether it's six years from now where I need your advice.

太棒了。

That's great.

人脉网络的关键在于你投入什么，而不是索取什么。是的。所以我见过最优秀的人脉网络拥有者，总是那些会问'我能怎么帮你？'的人。没错。嘿。

The the key to networks is it's what you put into the network, not what you take out. Yeah. So the people who have the best networks I've ever seen are always the people who say, how can I help you? Yeah. Hey.

我有个人要介绍给你。你应该见见某某人。

I've got something for you. You should meet so and so.

哦，对。对。对。人脉连接者。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Connectors.

从来不是'嘿，听着，你能为我做什么？'这种态度。是的，付出总会回报。

It's never, hey. Listen. What can you do for me? Yeah. That comes back.

因果总是循环的。尽可能多地为网络付出，网络就会回报你。

Karma flows back always. Give as much into the network as possible, and the network gives back.

我觉得哈里就是这样做的。因为有趣的是，大约一个月前，我说我有个做某事的想法。哈里三十秒内就在WhatsApp上回复我说：'我认识某某人（欧洲投资界顶尖人物），我把你拉进和他的WhatsApp群组'。把我拉进群后，他发了条语音说：'史蒂夫是最棒的'。

I think that's what, in the case of Harry, he's also done. Because funnily enough, about a month ago, I said, oh, I've got this idea to do this thing. And Harry turned around to me thirty seconds within WhatsApp and said, oh, I know, insert name of this person who's the very top in investing in Europe. I'll put you in a WhatsApp group with him. Put me in a WhatsApp group with this guy, sent a voice note, said Steve's the best ever.

然后他说：'史蒂夫在所有方面都比我强得多'，这真是他的原话。接着他评价那个他介绍给我的人：'这家伙也是他领域里最顶尖的。把你们俩凑在一起，祝你好运'。我当场就想：'我靠，哈里这家伙'。

Then he said he said, Steve's way better than I am at everything. This is literally what he said. And then he said about the guy he put me in the WhatsApp group, he goes, and this guy is also the best at what he does ever. Putting you two together, good luck. And immediately, thought, fucking hell, Harry.

多么厉害的人啊。然后他介绍给我的那个人也说：'哈里是不是特别棒？'于是我给哈里发消息说：'听着，如果有什么需要我帮忙的'

What a great guy. And then the guy he'd introduced me to goes, isn't Harry such a great guy? And so I messaged Harry. I'm like, listen. If there's anything

我能为你做些什么

I can do for you

但那就是那个冷静的人

but that's the calm man.

但说实话，你知道，我真的相信人脉网络。我认为这是最重要的。你的社群、你的人脉就是一切。绝对的答案是，你必须持续为人脉网络付出。因为如果你试图从中索取，它就会崩溃

But that that honestly, I you know, I really believe in networks. I think it's the most important thing. Your community, your network is everything. And the absolute answer is you have to keep putting into the network. Because if you try and extract from the network, it collapses.

是啊。因为那样你就成了那种十年后才打电话的人，说：嘿，斯蒂芬，能借我点钱吗？我现金用完了

Yeah. Because then you're just that guy who's making the phone call after ten years saying, hey, Stephen, can I get some money from you because I've run out of cash?

我最后想谈的是英国和美国，以及地理位置总体上扮演的角色有多大。因为现在有很多关于英国的政治和社会讨论。人们对英国有些悲观。有些人对美国乐观，有些则不。在考虑财富创造和财务策略时，你会多考虑地理位置因素吗

The last thing I wanted to talk about is The UK and The US and geographies generally and how much that plays a role. Because right now, there's lots of political, social conversations about The UK. People are a little bit doomer about The UK. Some people are optimistic about The US, some aren't. How much do you think about geographies when you're thinking about your wealth creation, your finance strategy?

这有影响吗

Does it play a role?

我很幸运曾在伦敦住了一个多月。我在那里做了几个播客。我想我可以问问你。这些播客有趣的一点是，当我与他们交谈时，他们告诉我，他们的大部分听众基础在美国，大部分收入也来自美国

So I was fortunate enough to live in London for a little bit over a month or so. And I did a number of podcasts out there. And I guess I could just ask you. The interesting thing about these podcasts is when I was talking to them, what they told me is that the majority of their listener base is in The United States. The majority of their money comes from The United States.

他们的大多数赞助人来自美国，而不是英国。我觉得这非常有趣，因为英国本身是一个巨大的市场。但据我所闻，许多真正想在英国发展的人，至少其中不少人，更倾向于从美国赚钱，因为美元金额要高得多。虽然我在全球其他地区经验不多，但我确实认为美国对于追求财富增长和积累的人来说更为友好。

The majority of their sponsors come from The United States. It's not from The UK. And I thought that was very interesting because it's a it's a huge market. But what they were saying is people who are really looking to grow in The United Kingdom, a lot of them at least, just from what I heard, would prefer to earn from The United States because the dollar figures are much higher. Now, don't have a lot of global experience outside of that, but I do think that The United States is more friendly for people that are interested in wealth growth, wealth accumulation.

也许美国不是最好的——世界上还有免税国家，但对于那些更具创业精神的人来说，我认为这里有很多其他地方没有的机会。

Maybe not the best there's tax free countries out there, but in terms of for somebody who is more entrepreneurial in that sense, I think you have a lot of opportunities here that you don't have other places.

你怎么看，Ram？

Do you think, Ram?

我非常相信地理位置的重要性，原因有很多。我在英国、印度、西班牙和开曼群岛都生活过。我的大部分职业生涯是在美国这边度过的。西班牙是生活方式套利的选择——生活成本可能只有英国的一半，开曼群岛的三分之一。

I'm a huge believer in geographic location for a number of different reasons. So I've lived in The UK, India, Spain, and The Cayman Islands. I spent most of my working career on this side of the pond in The US. Spain is lifestyle arbitrage. The cost of living is even probably half out of The UK and a third of that what it is in The US for the Cayman Islands.

一年有300天的阳光，了不起的人群、文化、气候，成本非常低廉，租金便宜，买房也便宜，一切都很完美。是理想的生活方式套利。问题是人脉网络——你周围没有那些雄心勃勃、从事不同事业的人。但在如今这个全球化的世界，我们可以在线工作，这实际上是可行的。

Three hundred days of sunshine, incredible people, culture, climate, cost is very cheap, rent is cheap, to buy is cheap, everything. Perfect lifestyle arbitrage. Problem is network. You're not surrounded by people who are ambitious doing different stuff. In a globalized world now where we can work online, it's actually doable.

所以我们看到很多美国人搬到拉丁美洲，这就是套利的机会，哥伦比亚也是。南美洲、拉丁美洲生活成本低，生活质量高，相对安全。如果你从事的行业可以在线工作，那么通过这种方式，你可以非常快地实现你的最终目标，即‘ coast fire’（经济自由）。如你所说，如果你想要智力资本，世界上只有一个地方像美国这样高度集中地拥有资本和智力资本。

So we're seeing a lot of Americans moving down to Latin America. That's the arbitrage here, or Colombia as well. So into South America, Latin America, it's cheap, high quality of life, relatively safe. And if you're in a business where you can work online, okay, you you can get to your end goal, your coast fire thing super fast by doing that. If you want to your point, if you want intellectual capital, there is only one place in the world that has it in such high densities as The US, capital and intellectual capital.

亚洲有，印度也有，遍布各地，但它们都缺少某些不同形式的资本。所以关键是根据你的最终目标来利用这些资源。

Asia has it. India has it. You know, it's all around, but they're all missing different forms of it. So it's using that for your end goals.

英国的情况怎么样？

What about The UK?

做不到，因为英国现在的态度已经变成了，我们就是不能拥有美好的事物。他们不愿意。如果我跟我朋友聊，他们都不愿意投资。他们只想要更大的房子和下一辆租赁的汽车。现在英国人在制度上就是不快乐的，这种情况已经持续一段时间了。

Can't do it because The UK's attitude now has become, we just can't have nice things. They don't want to. If I speak to my friends, they don't want to invest. They just want to have the bigger house and the next car on lease. People are institutionally unhappy in The UK right now, and that has been for a while.

所以我们不再有创业文化了。它已经被扼杀了。欧洲也是。所以不只是英国。整个欧洲，同样的事情都发生了。

And so we don't have a culture of entrepreneurialism left. It's been stamped out. Europe too. So it's not just The UK. Everywhere in Europe, same thing has happened.

人们就是不再相信自己还能拥有美好的事物了。

People just don't believe they can have nice things anymore.

当你思考你所理解的关于英国的叙事时，比如，核心信息是什么？所以如果它像一个营销口号，英国，你是一个投资者，你是一个企业家，当你想到英国时，你脑子里浮现的是什么？会得出什么结论？

When you think about the narrative that you understand of The UK, like, what is the the message? So if it was like a marketing slogan, The UK, you're an investor, you're an entrepreneur, what what's in your head when you think of The UK? What comes out?

是现实中的情况是什么，还是你会如何向别人推销英国？

What is it in reality, or what would be how would you sell The UK to others?

不。我是说，你认为，作为一个投资者和企业家，你认为英国目前的叙事是什么？

No. I'm saying, like, what do you think what do you think the narrative of The UK is right now as an investor and entrepreneur?

我觉得它就像一个死水区。死水区？

I think it just feels like a backwater. Backwater?

是的。什么是

Yeah. What's an

经济死水区？别忘了，在90年代末和2000年代，它曾是整个世界金融业的中心。也是世界广告业的中心，还有所有创意产业。这些都集中在伦敦。

economic backwater? So don't forget, in the late '90s and 2000s, it was this entire center of the world's financial industry. It was the center of the world's advertising industry. It was some of the all the creative industries. It was all based in London.

我们失去了所有

We lost all of

这些。为什么？

it. Why?

监管。所以你认为这是

Regulation. So you think it's

政府失策了？

the government's government have misstepped?

是的。政府失策了，美国重新掌控了银行体系，因为他们在英国和欧洲对待资本要求的方式与美国不同。他们成功让华尔街回归华尔街。一切都转移了。我当时在高盛工作。

Yeah. The government misstepped, and The US took the banking system back because how they treated capital requirements in The UK and Europe was different than The US. They managed to get Wall Street back to Wall Street. It all moved. I was working for Goldman Sachs.

伦敦曾是他们最大的办公室。摩根大通、摩根士丹利等所有公司都是如此。而我们却阻止了它。现在我们又看到了这种情况。我们有新兴产业正在崛起。

London was their biggest office. Same for JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, everybody. And we just stopped it. And now we're seeing it again. We've got newer industries rising.

我们有人工智能、加密货币。人工智能起源于剑桥。我认为大部分是谷歌DeepMind的成果，应该主要是剑桥大学的研究。但我们搞砸了。

We've got AI, crypto. AI came out of Cambridge. I think it was the Google Deep Mind. I think it was Cambridge University for most of that stuff. And we dropped the ball.

我们在金融行业搞砸了，在人工智能领域也搞砸了。我们有牛津、剑桥、帝国理工等高校培养出的大量顶尖人才，却没有好好利用。他们都去了美国。

We dropped the ball in the finance industry. We dropped the ball in AI. We get this massive talent density coming out of Oxford and Cambridge, Imperial College, all these others. And we don't use it. They all move to The US.

我们曾经拥有加密货币行业，我们也参与其中。但那个机会我们也搞砸了。我们在所有事情上都搞砸了。而欧洲正在通过表态'我们不想做这个'来主动关闭每一个机会之门。别忘了，现在欧洲大部分国家都是老龄化国家。

We had the crypto industry of which we were part of that. We dropped that ball too. We dropped the whole ball on everything. And Europe is actively shutting the door on every opportunity by saying, we don't want to do this. Don't forget, they're a nation of old people now, most of Europe.

所以他们宁愿不要任何改变。但如果我们回到那个经济增长的公式，人口增长是关键驱动力。你需要一个长期增长的人口，但需要以正确的方式实现。所以他们归咎于此，但整个经济机器的问题在于没有人生孩子。这才是问题所在。

So they'd rather just not have any change. But if we go back to that economic formula for GDP growth, population growth is the key driver. You need a growing population over time, but it just needs to be done in the right way. So they're blaming that, but the whole economic machine is because nobody's had kids. That's the problem.

人口结构问题是所有问题的根源。问题在于没有人生孩子，所以就没有经济增长。于是你试图引入新的劳动力来创造增长。你又不想要这样，所以他们就被赶出去。与此同时，经济却在放缓。

The demographic problem is the structure of everything. And the problem is nobody's had kids, so you don't have economic growth. So then you try and bring in new workers to create growth. You don't want that, so they get thrown out. Meanwhile, the economy slows down.

人们变得保守退缩，不再愿意承担风险。整个体系现在不得不为国民医疗服务体系买单来供养这些老年人。没有足够的年轻人来支撑这一切。政府的债务越来越重。

People get pulled back. They don't want to take risk anymore. The whole system is now having to pay for the National Health Service to pay for these old people. There's not enough kids to support all of that. The government's getting more in debt.

债券收益率正在上升。所有人都在问，到底发生了什么？其实从第一天起，这一切都是人口结构变化的结果。

Bond yields are going up. Everyone's like, what's going on? It's all been a function of demographics from day one.

总结陈词时间，汉弗莱。最终立场。人们最应该思考的重要问题是什么？你会如何收尾？有没有什么我本该问却没有问你的问题？

Closing arguments, Humphrey. Closing position. What's the most important thing people should be thinking about? How would you round off? Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you?

是的。我认为我的个人哲学很简单：个人财务归根结底就是收入减去支出。所以要深入了解这两项。懂得如何推动这两方面。然后真正留意你把钱花在什么地方。

Yeah. I think that my my personal philosophy is just that personal finances comes down to your income minus your expenses. So know those two intimately. Know how to drive both of those two. And then just really watch what you spend your money on.

对吧？比如汽车，美国平均每月的车贷是745美元。如果可以的话，尽量避开这种支出。努力保持理性。一切都在于保持一贯和合理，我认为这些小小的决定会累积成一个更加光明的未来。

Right? Like the car the average car payment in America is $7.45 a month. Stay away from that if you can. Try to be reasonable. Everything is about being consistent and reasonable, and I think those small decisions compound to a much brighter future.

对我来说，首要的是自我教育。我们刚才讨论了你的财务状况如何？你的银行账户情况怎样？你想要实现什么目标？所以你要先自我教育。

Well, for me, first thing is educate yourself. You don't know we talked about what do your finances look like? What's your bank account look like? What are you trying to achieve? So you educate yourself.

学习投资知识。最重要的是进行投资。投资优先于储蓄，这是你实现目标的唯一途径。因为如果不这样做，你的钱就会贬值。然后就是付诸行动。

Learn about investing. Invest above all things. Investing above saving is the only way you're going to get there. Because if not, your money goes down. And then just do it.

做一笔交易。做一次投资。失败。学习。一遍又一遍地重复这个过程。

Make a trade. Make an investment. Fail. Learn. Do it again and do it again.

并且不断学习、自我教育。然后让自己置身于一个良好的社交网络中。无论是在推特上，还是在社交媒体上，找到一个你可以学习的群体，拓展你的人脉网络。做到这些，你就会进步。你不会失败的。

And keep learning, educating. And then surround yourself by a good network. Just be whether it's even on Twitter, on social media, find a network of people that you can learn from, add to the network. And those things, you'll you'll get ahead. You can't fail.

如果你能自我教育，就立刻开始，然后学习，持续去做，并且建立一个强大的人脉网络。

If you educate yourself, just get started, and then learn, keep doing it then, and just grow a great network.

那要买比特币吗？显然要买。你在加密货币里持有什么币？

And buy Bitcoin? Obviously. What what what coins do you own in crypto?

所以，这接下来可能会更有争议了。实际上，我为了留作纪念只持有一个比特币。妈的。好吧。所以我

So I so this is gonna get more contentious now. So I actually don't I own just one Bitcoin for posterity's sake. Fuck. Okay. So I

持有…那我干脆删掉这期节目好了。我的

own I'll delete the episode then. My

我主要持有SUI，也就是SUI代币。它是源自Facebook的加密网络，不过我也是其基金会成员。但我实际上把我大部分的流动资产净值都投进去了。然后我在以太坊上拥有很多数字艺术品，因为那对我来说是长期的价值储存。NFTs？

I own mainly SUI, which is the which is the SUI. The crypto network that came out of Facebook, but I'm also on the foundation as well. But I actually put most of my liquid net worth into that. And then I own a lot of digital art on Ethereum because that's a long term store of value for me. NFTs?

是的，NFT。所以我经常在比特币、以太坊、Solana和SUI之间转换。我不做交易，这些都是长期持有。我可能每两年调整一次我的资产配置。

Yeah, NFTs. And so I've moved around a lot between Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and SUI. I don't trade. So these are long term holds. I might change once every two years, change my allocation.

但总的来说，都是那些主流的大币种。

So but it's all generally all the big big tokens.

Jaspreet，请做总结发言。

And Jaspreet, closing statements.

首先，感谢Rahul Humphrey和Steve组织这次活动。我想补充的是，互联网上有很多人——恕我直言——在美化被动收入或巨额财富的获取有多么容易，这有时让人难以看清实际该如何实现。我想说的是，没有什么事情是容易的，但无论你身处何地、背景如何、来自哪里，改变总是可能的，但这需要付出努力。我认为帮助你达成目标的最佳方式就是努力工作、做出牺牲，我称之为‘十年牺牲期’。这样你才能拥有大多数人梦寐以求的东西。

Well, first off, thank you, Rahul Humphrey, and Steve for putting this together. This is a and to add on to everything that you guys said, for me, I think there's a lot of, for lack of a better word, crap on the Internet of people romanticizing and fantasizing how easy it is for passive income or for insane levels of wealth, where it becomes sometimes hard to see how you could actually do that. And what I'd like to say is, look, nothing comes easy, but change can always be made regardless of where you are, what your background is, where you come from, but it's going to take work. And I think the best thing to help your outcome to get to where you want to go is hard work, sacrifice, put in what I call a decade of sacrifice. That way you can have what most people dream of.

而你能达到目标的唯一原因，是因为你愿意做大多数人不愿意做的事。

And the only reason why you're able to get there is because you're willing to do what the majority of people are not willing to do.

用一句话总结，你对AI是乐观还是悲观？乐观。

And in a word, AI positive about it or pessimistic? Positive.

这是我们拥有过的最棒的工具

Best tool we've ever been

已知。乐观。

given. Optimistic.

是的。好的。很好。令人耳目一新。听到这些非常令人振奋。

Yeah. Okay. Good. Refreshing. Very refreshing to hear.

非常感谢大家今天抽出时间。我会在下方链接你们告诉我的应该引导观众关注的三个最重要的事项。所以在这段对话结束后，我会请你们提供三个可以找到你们的途径。第一个将是你们的频道，也就是你们的YouTube频道。你们都是非常大型的YouTuber，拥有惊人的频道，这些频道我已经关注了很多很多年。

Thank you all so much for giving me your time today. I'm I'm gonna link the top three things that you tell me we should direct the audience to below. So I'll ask you after this conversation to give me three things where people can find you. The first is gonna be your channels, so your channels on YouTube. You're all very large YouTubers and have incredible channels, channels that I followed for many, many years.

你们还有什么其他认为对观众相关的内容希望我链接的吗？

Is there anything else that you guys would like me to link that you think is gonna be pertinent to the audience?

嗯，我们有一个为投资者提供的免费通讯，我们每天都会发布

Well, we have a free newsletter for investors that we publish every single day

是的。

Yeah.

叫做《市场简报》。我认为这会是一个很好的选择。

Called Market Briefs. I think that would be a great one.

我也会把那个链接加上。还有其他事吗？

I'll link that one as well. Anything else?

Real Vision 是一个简单的地方。它是每个人都能找到所需之处的简单家园。所以

Real Vision is a simple place. It's a simple home for everybody to find what they need. So

网站是 realvision.com 吗？还是

The website, realvision.com? Or

realvision.com。

realvision.com.

好的。那么，Humphrey 呢？

Okay. And, Humphrey?

我现在正在建一个网站，基本上是我的指南，但它是关于

And I'm building a website right now that's basically my my guide, but it's my guide on

不同

different