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这可能是我最后一次谈论自己和我的工作了，因为这个月我可能下不了手术台。
This could be the last time I speak about myself, my work, because there's a chance that I might not make it off the operating table this month.
一个一直对我怀有敌意的记者，两年多来一直在试图刊登一篇关于我的报道，下个月或下下个月就会发表。
And a journalist who has very bad blood towards me has been trying to publish a story on me for more than two years now, and it will come out in the next month or two.
我不希望那成为我人生的最后一句话。
And I didn't want that to be the last word of my life.
你希望你人生最后一句话是什么？
What do you want the last word of your life to be?
我今天来，是想聊聊人类历史上一个被彻底遗忘的重大篇章。
I'm here to communicate about the possibility of a major forgotten episode in human story.
我说的，是一个失落的文明。
I'm talking about a lost civilization.
所以大多数人觉得文明是从六千年前开始的？
So most people think civilization started six thousand years ago?
对。
Yes.
但你相信，早在很久以前，人类可能就存在过一个更早的文明吗？
But you believe there's strong evidence that there could have been a previous civilization?
两万年前，我就在这里向你，史蒂文，展示支持这个观点的证据。
Twenty thousand years ago, and I'm going to present the evidence for that here, Steven.
那是一个黄金时代，没有暴力，没有残忍，伟大的疗愈者和智者正在默默耕耘。
And it suggests a golden age where there was no violence, no cruelty, where great healers and sages were at work.
他们的文明极其先进。
They're extremely sophisticated.
不过，如果你像我一样继续深入研究这些神话，就会发现一些奇怪的事情。
However, if you follow the myths further, as I've done, you find something odd happens.
他们逐渐背离了最初的纯真，变成了一种开始向世界各地施加权力的文化。
You find that they stepped away from the original purity and become a culture that begins to impose its power on others around the world.
而在这些神话里，还隐藏着科学信息，记录了一场巨大的灾难，几乎灭绝了整个人类。
And then sewn into those myths is scientific information, which record a gigantic cataclysm, all but wiping out the human race.
如果你说的这一切是真的，那对我们今天的生活意味着什么？
If what you're saying is true, what does that mean for our lives?
我想，我们的未来也是如此。
I guess also our future.
在这些神话里，总有一种感觉：这一切是我们自己招来的。
Well, there's always this feeling in the myth that we brought this upon ourselves.
当我今天看我们的文明时，我发现它完全符合神话中那个即将失落的文明的所有特征——除非我们醒悟过来，否则最有可能造成这场浩劫的，正是我们自己。
And when I look at our civilization today, I see a civilization that ticks all the mythological boxes for the next lost civilization, and that we are most likely to be the cause of that cataclysm ourselves, unless we wake up.
格雷厄姆·汉考克，你临终那天最在意的是什么？
Graham Hancock, what will you care about on your last day?
最重要的是
Most of all
各位，在本集开始之前，我想请大家帮个忙。
Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins.
算法会根据你关注的节目，把那个节目里最精彩的内容优先推送到你的信息流里。
The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed.
所以当我们的节目推出最精彩、最受欢迎、评分最高的那些集数时，我希望你们能第一时间看到。
So when we have our best episodes on the show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know.
你只要点一下关注按钮，就能轻松知道这一点。
And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button.
而且，这也是你能够为我们做得最简单、最容易、又免费的事，帮助我们把节目做得更好。
But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make the show better.
如果你现在能花一分钟，在你正在听节目的那个App里点一下关注按钮，我会非常感激。
And I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to this on right now and hit that follow button.
真的非常非常感谢你。
Thank you so, so, so much.
格雷厄姆·汉考克。
Graham Hancock.
我想第一个想问你的是，过去三十多年里，你一直致力于理解什么？
I guess the first question I wanted to ask you is what is it you've committed the last more than thirty years of your life to understanding?
说到底，这是一道谜题。
What it is is a a puzzle.
我对人类历史中的某些方面感到困惑。
I'm puzzled by aspects of the human past.
人类历史上很可能曾发生过一段被彻底遗忘的重大事件，而且有很多迹象都支持这一点。
There could be, and I think there's a lot to suggest there was, a major forgotten episode in the human story.
所以我才说，我们这个物种患上了健忘症。
That's why I refer to us as a species with amnesia.
说到这个词，我得感谢伊曼纽尔·维利科夫斯基，他写过一本叫《人类的健忘》的书。
And when I use that phrase, I need to give credit to Immanuel Velikovsky, who wrote a book called Mankind in Amnesia.
我认为，我们确实是一个患了健忘症的物种。
I think we are a species with amnesia.
我们遗忘了自己的过去中某些极其重要的东西。
I think we have forgotten something very important in our own past.
当我向专家们求教时，发现他们很多说法确实有趣又有用，但也有不少地方让我觉得特别不满足，根本没回应我过去遇到的那些问题。
And when I turn to the experts, I find much of what they say very interesting and very useful, but some of what they say extremely unsatisfactory and not responding to the problems that I have in the past.
正因如此，我才决定走自己的路，重新审视这段历史。我主要是个作家，偶尔也做电视节目，想给读者提供一种不同的视角——这种视角有理有据，根基扎实，却和主流叙事的关键部分截然不同。
And that's led me to take my own approach to the past, to look at that and to offer readers, because I'm mainly an author, occasionally make TV shows, to offer them an alternative point of view, which is rational and and and solidly based, but which is contrary to key aspects of the mainstream narrative.
迄今为止，人类能解读的书面文字，最多只追溯到五千五百年前。
We only have decipherable written scripts from the last five and a half thousand years maximum.
在此之前，我们没有任何能读懂的文字记录。
Before that, we don't have any any writing that we can, at any rate, read.
往前推个一万年、一万两千年、一万五千年，甚至两万年。
Go back ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty thousand years.
从考古学的角度来看，我们能依靠的，只有他们从地里挖出来的东西。
All you can base it on from an archaeological point of view is what they can dig out of the ground.
我认为，古人其实留下了他们经历过的记忆。
And I think what they're missing, the ancients did leave us memories of what they went through.
世界各地都有神话、传统和经文，记载了一场席卷全人类的浩劫，几乎将人类彻底毁灭。
We have myths and traditions and scriptures from all around the world, which record a gigantic cataclysm affecting the human race, and all but wiping out the human race.
诺亚方舟的故事，大家当然都知道。
Everybody knows the story of the flood of Noah, of course.
诺亚方舟只是全球数百个类似故事中的一个而已。
The flood of Noah is just an one example of hundreds like that of stories from around the world.
考古学家们嗤之以鼻，不屑于相信柏拉图讲的亚特兰蒂斯，但亚特兰蒂斯也是这样一个故事，它记述了一场毁灭旧时代的全球性洪灾，只留下少数幸存者。
Archaeologists pour scorn on Plato's story of Atlantis, But Atlantis is another of those stories that remembers a global flood that wiped out a former era of existence, leaving only a few survivors.
而考古学家的回应是，那只是一场局部的河水泛滥。
And the archaeological response to them is, there was a local river flood.
他们夸大了这件事。
They exaggerated it.
对当时的人来说，这可是天大的事，所以他们说整个世界都遭了殃。
It was a big deal for them, so they said it happened to the whole world.
我听够了考古学家这么讲。
And I'm sick of archaeologists saying that.
这些是我们人类集体记忆的宝库。
This is the memory banks of our species.
这是我们唯一拥有的、关于六千年前之前的记录。
This is the record the only record we have of a period before 6,000 ago.
我们不该轻视它，把它当成原始的迷信。
And we shouldn't despise it and scorn it as primitive superstition.
我们该问的是：这里面有没有什么能和我们已知的科学事实相互印证的？
We should say, what can we find in here that we can coordinate with scientific facts that we're aware of?
咱们不妨看看这些说法里是不是真有什么东西，别一上来就全盘否定。
Let's see if there's something to this rather than just dismissing it.
很多这类神话里都包含特定的意象和一串数字。
Many of these myths contain imagery and a series of numbers.
上世纪六十年代有一项重要的学术研究，出版了一本叫《哈姆雷特的磨坊》的书，作者是麻省理工学院科学史教授乔治奥·德·桑蒂拉纳和赫特·范·德钱。
A very important academic study published in the nineteen sixties, a book called Hamlet's Mill by Giorgio de Santillana, professor of the history of science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Hert van Deschen, professor of history of science.
这可不是我瞎说的。
This is not me speaking.
这是六十年代顶尖的科学史学者的研究成果。
This is major, major historians of science in the nineteen sixties.
他们发现，这些神话里隐藏的数字和意象，只能指向一个现象——那就是黄赤交点岁差，一个很少被人提及的天文现象。
They found encoded in those myths numbers and imagery that could only relate to one thing, and that's an obscure astronomical phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes.
我就不细讲技术细节了，但要观测、记录、预测它，甚至预测它未来的影响，都需要极其精确的天文观测，而且得持续几百年甚至更久。
I'm not gonna go into the technical details, but to observe it and to record it and to predict it, to predict its effects in the future involves very precise astronomical observations maintained over a very long period of time, hundreds and hundreds of years at least.
所以，我们现在看到的，是关于全球大灾难的神话。
So here we have myths of a global cataclysm.
还有太多别的东西了。
There is just so much else.
有一些古代地图描绘了冰河时期的世界面貌，但考古学却把这些全当成巧合，不值一提。
There are ancient maps that show the world as it looked during the ice age, again, dismissed as just total coincidence and not significant by archaeology.
我觉得，考古学在回应我们每个人心中那些问题时，彻底失败了，没能给出让人信服的答案。
I feel that archaeology has failed miserably in providing a nurturing, satisfying answer to the questions we all have.
所以你提到全球性大灾难，是这个意思吗？
So when you say global cataclysm Mhmm.
这到底指的是什么？
What does that mean?
意思是有什么东西撞上了地球，把人类全都灭了？
Means that some something hit the planet, there was we were wiped out?
对。
Yeah.
这其中有很多种可能性。
There there there are a number of options.
我得再强调一遍，因为这行当里谣言太多，我马上就会被贴上疯子边缘的标签。
And, again, I need to stress this because because there's so much propaganda in this business, I'll be immediately accused of lunatic fringe.
关于这个问题，已经有一些扎实的科学研究，主要分两个方面。
The solid science that's been done on this, is twofold.
其中一个方面，我觉得最有说服力的是‘新仙女木撞击假说’。
One aspect of it, the one that I think I find most persuasive is called the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis.
这本来是个主流假说，但在学术界却遭到严厉质疑。
And this is a mainstream hypothesis, but it is severely criticized within academia.
据推测，大约两万年前，一颗巨大的彗星从深空飞来，被太阳引力捕获，进入了绕日轨道。
The hypothesis is that about 20,000 ago, a very large comet came in from deep space and went into orbit around the sun.
这颗彗星的直径可能有一百到两百公里。
This would be a comet of the diameter of a 100 kilometers, maybe 200.
它飞进来后，被太阳的引力捕获，开始绕行。
Comes in, gets captured by the sun's gravity, goes into an orbit.
而它的轨道正好与地球的轨道相交。
That orbit crosses the orbit of the Earth.
当你面对一个大型天体时，被击中的概率极低。
While you're dealing with one large object, the chances of getting hit are extremely low.
如果真撞上了后果很严重，但这种可能性非常小。
It would be very bad if you did, but very low.
问题是，没人对这一点有异议。
Trouble is nobody disputes this.
一旦彗星被大型行星或太阳的引力捕获，就会开始分裂成多个碎片。
Once comets are caught by the gravitational field of a very large planet or of a sun, they start to break up into multiple parts.
年轻干冰彗星就是发生了这种情况。
And this is what happened to the younger dry ice comet.
它不再是单一的子弹，而像霰弹枪扫射一样。
Instead of being a single bullet, it became a shotgun blast.
它分裂成成千上万的碎片，其中我们已经记录了相当多的一部分。
It became thousands and thousands of objects, of which we've cataloged quite a lot.
这些碎片中，恩基彗星是最为人熟知的一块。
Numbers of them, Comete Enki is the best known bit of that former comet.
很多学者研究后认为，恩基彗星——直径约六公里，轨道会穿过地球——就是那颗母彗星。
Many of the academics look at this, think that Comete Enki, which is about six kilometers in diameter and which does cross the orbit of the Earth, they think that, that was the source comet.
但另一组研究人员说，不对。
But whereas the other team are saying, no.
那只是母彗星的一小部分。
That's a bit of the source comet.
还有其他很多碎片。
There were many other bits as well.
大约一万两千八百年前，确切说是一万两千八百六十年左右，地球遭遇了一场碎片雨。
And twelve thousand eight hundred years ago, twelve thousand eight hundred and sixty approximately, the Earth went into a storm of these fragments.
这些碎片没有一个大到能和六千五百万年前灭绝恐龙的天体相比，但遍布全球各地。
None of them big enough to compare with the object that wiped out the dinosaurs sixty five million years ago, but all over the world.
地球在自转。
The earth is turning.
这些碎片不断袭来。
This stuff comes in.
他们在北美洲西海岸发现了这些痕迹。
They found it in the West Coast Of North America.
在比利时找到了，甚至往东到了叙利亚也发现了。
They found it in Belgium, and they found it as far east as Syria.
所以地球在转，这些东西就不断落下来。
So it's like the earth turns, and this stuff is just coming in.
大部分都在空中爆炸了。
Most of it is blowing up in the air.
根本没碰到地面，但一个百米左右大小的天体在空中爆炸，威力相当于一次强大的核爆。
It isn't even hitting the ground, but an air burst from an object that might be a 100 meters in diameter is equivalent to a very substantial nuclear blast.
所以他们的观点是，地球当时遭遇了一场彗星碎片雨。
So their argument is the Earth was hit by a comet storm.
他们进一步认为——我觉得他们说得对——这正好解释了当时发生了什么。
And this, they then argue, and I think they're right, explains what happened then.
因为一万两千八百年前，我们还处在冰河时期，但地球正逐渐走出冰期。
Because twelve thousand eight hundred years ago, we were still in the Ice Age, but the Earth was coming out of the Ice Age.
事实上，在那之前的一两千年里，地球一直在变暖，气候变得相当宜人。
In fact, for about a thousand, maybe two thousand years before that, the Earth had been getting warmer, getting quite nice.
按理说这种趋势应该会继续，但就在大约一万两千八百年前，前后差不了六十年，突然出现了巨大的转折。
And you would normally expect that to continue, but then suddenly, twelve thousand eight hundred years ago, give or take sixty years, there's a huge interruption.
发生了剧烈的变化。
There's a radical change.
地球没有继续变暖，反而骤然重回极寒状态。
The earth, instead of warming, it suddenly goes back into a massive deep freeze.
就在那个时候，冰河时代那些著名的大型动物——巨型动物群——全都不见了，比如毛茸茸的猛犸象、乳齿象、巨型地懒，有些身高高达四米多。
And this is the time when all the famous big animals of the ice age, the megafauna, are wiped out, the the woolly mammoths, the mastodons, the giant sloths, these things like 14 feet tall.
你懂的。
You know?
就在那一段时期，大约一万两千八百年前，它们全部消失了。
They're all they're all wiped out in that window around about twelve thousand eight hundred years ago.
最重要的是，当时还出现了一次非常神秘的海平面上升。
And most important of all, there's a very mysterious sea level rise that occurs then.
当地球进入寒冷期时，你根本不会想到这种情况。
This you would not expect when the earth is entering a cold phase.
通常，当地球变冷，冰会积在现有的冰盖上。
Normally, when the earth enters a cold phase, ice accumulates on the existing ice caps.
而不是融化后流入海洋。
It doesn't melt and go into the sea.
那接下来的问题就是，我们该怎么解释新仙女木期开始时海平面的突然上升？
So the next thing is how do we explain this sudden rise in sea levels at the beginning of Younger Dryas?
这本来根本不该发生。
It shouldn't have happened.
彗星理论完美地解释了这一点。
The comet theory explains it perfectly.
彗星的质量、撞击、热量和空中爆炸，足以让冰盖彻底融化，引发这场融水洪流。
The the the mass, the impact, the heat, the air bursts, that would have been enough to send the ice sheets into meltdown and to cause this pulse of meltwater.
然后，严寒才真正到来。
Then the freeze sets in.
你经历了大约一千二百年的极度严寒。
You have about a thousand two hundred years of freezing desperately cold conditions.
然后，就在一万一千六百年前，突然间，气温又飙升了。
And then, again, eleven thousand six hundred years ago, woof, it it suddenly warms up.
这些可是剧烈的气候剧变。
I mean, these are radical climate changes.
比我们现在经历的任何变化都要剧烈得多。
They're beyond anything that's happening now.
我觉得这些现象必须要有合理的解释。
And I I think explanations are needed for them.
虽然一万两千八百年前听起来很遥远，但在人类历史上，那简直就跟昨天一样。所以，当时地球上一定发生了某种巨大的变故，影响了我们的祖先。
And because 12,800 ago may sound a long time ago, but it's really yesterday in the human story, So something very big happened to the earth and happened to our ancestors twelve thousand eight hundred years ago.
如果不是彗星造成的，另一个被提出的理论是太阳活动发生了剧烈变化。
If it wasn't a comet, another theory that's been put forward is a radical change in solar activity.
这也可能是原因之一。
This might have been involved with it as well.
我觉得这个说法不如新仙女木撞击假说有说服力。
I don't find that as persuasive as the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis.
也许将来会出现别的解释，但没人否认的是，新仙女木事件是一场灾难。
And, you know, maybe some other explanation will come up, but what nobody disputes is that the Younger Dryas was a catastrophe.
它波及全球，影响极其深远。
It was global, and and it had huge effects.
你特意选了今天来和我聊这个，是有什么原因吗？
You, you chose intentionally to come and have this conversation today.
为什么偏偏是今天？
Why today?
我从今年一月、二月开始就一直身体不好，特别明显的是呼吸困难，这是因为心脏里有一个瓣膜失效了，导致血液回流，而不是正常泵到全身。
Well, I've been quite unwell, really noticeably unwell since, January, February, this year, particularly very short of breath, it's because one of the failed valves in my heart is causing blood to regurgitate inside the heart rather than pumping it through the body.
这样一来，含氧的血液就无法有效到达我的肺部。
And that means that oxygenated blood is not getting to my lungs.
如果不做手术，我大概还能再活两三年，说不定能到五年。
I probably would live another two or three years without the surgery, maybe even five.
但生活质量会非常差。
But the quality of life would be very low.
现在我连爬三阶楼梯都会累得不行。
I can't even walk up three stairs without being exhausted at the moment.
所以我已经决定做手术了。
So I've definitely decided to have the surgery.
我为什么不在手术后康复了再做这个采访，而要现在就做呢？
Why am I doing this interview now rather than postponing it until after the surgery and I've recovered?
毕竟，我有可能下不了手术台，虽然这个可能性微乎其微。
Well, there's a tiny chance, absolutely minuscule chance, that I might not make it off the operating table.
这个月？
This month?
是的。
Yeah.
这个月。
This month.
如果真有那天，这将是我最后一次在这样的公开场合谈论自己、我的工作、我的生活，以及我所经历的挑战。
And if that were the case, this would be the last time I've spoken about myself, my work, my life, challenges I faced, in an open forum like this.
我选择这么做，而且我会明确说明原因，但不会点名任何人。
And and and I I choose to do that, and I'm gonna say specifically why without giving without mentioning names.
我这么做是因为有一位记者，一直对我抱有敌意，两年多来一直在试图刊登一篇关于我的报道，下个月或下下个月就会发布。我不想让那成为我人生的最后一句话。
I choose to do that because a journalist, who has very bad blood towards me, has been trying to publish a story on me for more than two years now, and it will come out in the next month or two, and I didn't want that to be the last word of my life.
所以，史蒂文，我今天才坐在这里。
That's why I'm here, Steven.
你希望你人生的最后一句话是什么？
What do you want the last word of your life to be?
我希望人们能明白，我并不是少数几位考古学家在社交媒体上塑造的那个人。
I would hope that people will come to understand that I'm not the person that a very small minority of archaeologists have mobilized social media to present me as.
我不是骗子。
I'm not a grifter.
我也不是造假者。
I'm not a hoaxer.
我不是骗子。
I'm not a con man.
我对此非常投入。
I'm deeply committed to this.
我为此奉献了三十多年的生命。
I've devoted my life to it for more than for more than thirty years.
我对此充满热情。
I'm passionate about it.
这对我来说意义重大。
It matters to me.
我知道说了这话可能会被人笑话，但我总觉得这是我的使命。
And I think again, I'll be laughed at for saying this, but I feel called to do this.
我觉得这是我应尽的责任和义务。
I feel I I feel it's my obligation and my responsibility to do this.
这有什么好争议的？
How is that disputed?
因为我得弄明白人类历史，才能理解你为什么坚信存在一个我们从未提及的文明。
Because I I I guess I need to understand human history to understand why the the the fundamental belief that you have that there was a civilization that we aren't talking about.
对。
Mhmm.
我想说清楚一点。
I'd like to be clear.
这不是信仰问题。
It's not a belief.
这又是我的批评者常犯的一个错误。
This is another it's a mistake that my that my critics often make.
他们以为我是在讨论某种信仰体系，或者某种邪教。
They they they think that I'm dealing with some sort of belief system or some sort of cult here.
不是的。
No.
我根本不是。
I'm not.
我只是感到困惑。
I'm I'm just puzzled.
我对过去感到困惑，也对传下来的那些记忆感到不解。
I'm just puzzled by the past, and I'm puzzled by the memories that have been passed down to us.
更让我困惑的是，世界各地的记忆都一致指向一场严重的灾难性事件。
And I'm puzzled that those memories concur all around the world on a serious cataclysmic event.
那些不觉得困惑、确信不疑的人，他们相信的是什么？
What is it that the your your people that aren't puzzled and are certain believe?
是的。
Yeah.
他们认为，北美冰川湖逐渐扩大，最终冲破了阻挡它们的冰坝，湖水一部分流入大西洋，切断了墨西哥湾流。
They think that, glacial lakes in North America gradually grew in size and overspilled the ice dams that held them in place, and that the, water from those lakes, some of it went into the Atlantic Ocean and cut the Gulf Stream.
我并不否认这一点。
I don't dispute that.
冰川湖确实参与其中，但这些湖是在极短的时间内迅速蓄满的。
Glacier lakes were involved, but those lakes were filled up at a massive speed.
没人否认小冰期是一场大灾难。
Nobody disputes that the Younger Dryas was a cataclysmic event.
争议的只是灾难的严重程度和它的成因。
It's just the the degree of the cataclysm that's disputed and what caused it that's disputed.
但大家都同意人类已经有三万年历史了？
But everyone agrees that humans are 300
是的。
Yes.
一万五千年前？
15,000 years old?
目前是这样。
At present.
我八九十年代刚开始探索时，学界普遍认为现代智人最多只存在了五万年。
When I started on this quest back back in the late eighties, early nineties, it was felt that anatomically modern human beings had not existed for more than 50,000.
其实非常近。
Very recent, really.
但事实证明，这种说法完全站不住脚，因为解剖学意义上的现代人类比五万年前要古老得多。
But this turned out to be complete rubbish because anatomically modern humans are much older than 50,000 years ago.
我们在埃塞俄比亚发现过距今19.6万年的现代人类遗骸。
We have a 196,000 year old anatomically modern human remains from Ethiopia.
最近在摩洛哥的杰贝尔·伊尔胡又发现了距今31.5万年的化石。
And then finally, 315,000 years ago, a recent find in, Djibail Ehud in Morocco.
同样是解剖学意义上的现代人类。
Again, anatomically modern humans.
所以，如果我们以解剖结构、脑容量、头骨大小来定义自己，那人类的存在时间至少有三十一万五千年，甚至更久。
So we can say that if we define ourselves by our anatomy, brain size, capacity of the skull, if we define ourselves in those ways, we've been around for at least three hundred and fifteen thousand years and probably much longer.
这纯粹是发现时机的问题。
That's that's just an accident of discovery.
这正是让我感到困惑的地方之一。
And that's one of the things that puzzles me.
既然我们从解剖结构到大脑、神经系统的全部硬件都和现代人一模一样，那为什么还要等三十多万年，才出现真正可识别的人类文明呢？
If we're anatomically modern, if we've got all the modern kit, if we've the same brains, we've the same neurology, everything is there, why do we wait more than three hundred thousand years to establish something recognizable as a human civilization.
我们干嘛等这么久？
Why do we wait so long?
该有的条件我们都齐了。
We got all the kit.
有证据显示，我们的祖先早就知道农业，只是压根儿没怎么用，远比那要早得多。
There's evidence that our ancestors were aware of agriculture, just chose not to use it much, much, much earlier than that.
那种以城市为基础的文明——也就是现在全球普遍存在的文明形态——真正能追溯到的，最早也就六千年前。
The complex of events that leads to a city based civilization, which is the kind of civilization we have now all over the world, that you can only really trace that back to six thousand years ago.
是的，你可以说在六千年前，已经有一些积累，慢慢发展成了高度发达的文明。
Yes, you can say that before six thousand years ago, there was buildup to what became the high civilizations.
但我想问的是，为什么不能更早一点？
But my question is, why not much earlier?
为什么非得等到那个时刻？
Why did we wait until that moment?
我找不到一个让人信服的答案，除非——其实我们根本就没等。
And and I don't find a satisfactory answer to that question except perhaps we didn't wait.
也许我们漏掉了故事的某一部分。
Perhaps we're missing part of our story.
我说的失落文明，不是指像我们这样的文明。
And when I say a lost civilization, I do not mean a civilization like ours.
我不是说他们有工业文明。
I do not mean an industrial civilization.
我不是说他们有手机、登过月球，或者干过那一堆荒唐事。
I don't mean they had cell phones or flew to the moon or any of that bullshit.
我觉得他们和我们的文明很不一样，但确实达到了一些高度。
I think they were very different civilization from ours, but they had conquered a number of peaks.
其中一个成就是航海与远洋航行，所以才留下了描绘冰河时期世界面貌的地图，另一个成就是天文学。
And one of those peaks was navigation and ocean seafaring, hence, the survival of maps, which show the world as it looked during the ice age, and another was astronomy.
还有另一个重要突破，从古代地图，特别是被称为波特兰地图的那类地图中可以看出来，那就是精确的相对经度。
And another really important breakthrough evidenced by by the ancient maps, particularly a category of maps called the Portolanos, is accurate relative longitudes.
这是奥伦提乌斯·菲内斯的地图。
This is the Aurentius Phineas map.
那里清楚地画着南极洲。
It shows Antarctica, right there.
有意思的是，这张地图是1531年画的。
And and this is interesting because this map was drawn in 1531.
问题是，我们文明直到1820年才发现南极洲。
The problem is that our civilization didn't discover Antarctica until 1820.
所以，一张1521年绘制的地图上居然出现了南极洲，尤其我们知道这张图是基于更古老的资料，而制图者自己也注明，他挖掘出了过去被掩埋在黑暗中的信息——遇到这种情况，我们不得不开始怀疑：这背后到底发生了什么？
So its appearance on a map drawn in 1521, particularly when we know that the map was based on older source maps and the mapmaker tells us in his own legend that he has uncovered material previously hidden in darkness, when we find that, we have to begin to wonder what is what is going on here.
会不会早在我们之前，就有人发现了南极洲，并用极其精确的经度关系把它画了下来？
Had somebody found Antarctica long before long before we did and mapped it with extremely accurate relative longitudes?
这很关键，因为我们的文明直到18世纪中期才真正解决经度问题。
And that's important because our civilization didn't crack the longitude problem until the mid eighteenth century.
那时候，如果你在海上往东或往西航行，可能离海岸线只有三百英里，但你根本不知道，结果半夜一头撞上去，人就没了。
What that meant was that if you're on a vessel sailing west or east, you might be 300 miles closer to a coastline than you think you are, and suddenly, you're on it in the night, and you're dead.
一旦搞定了经度，你就能确切知道自己的位置。
Once you've got longitude work out, you know exactly where you are.
我们一直到1750年前后，也就是1760年代，才通过哈里森的航海钟解决这个问题。
We didn't get that until 1750, seventeen sixties, thereabouts with Harrison's chronometer.
所以，在这么古老的地图上找到精确的经度，是另一个我觉得考古学家没法解释的谜题。
So finding good longitudes on very ancient maps is another puzzle that I don't think archaeologists solve.
所以你是觉得，两万年前可能曾存在过一个文明，那比所谓的‘年轻事件’还要早得多。
So you think there could have been a civilization twenty thousand years ago, which was before this Young moment Yeah.
我这里有一张照片，待会儿放上屏幕给你们看。
Where I mean, I've got this photo here, which I'll throw up on the screen.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得你说的这些，是某种东西存在的证据。
I think you say it's evidence that something
确实如此。
took is.
地点。
Place.
这就是新仙女木期的边界。
That's the Younger Dryas boundary.
我和艾伦·韦斯特在一起，他是彗星研究小组的科学家之一，正在研究新仙女木假说。
And I'm with Alan West, who's one of the scientists from the the Comete Research Group who are working on the Younger Dryas hypothesis.
我们的手正放在抽屉中间那条黑色条纹上，那是炭灰。
And our hands are on that black stripe running through the middle of the drawer, and that is soot.
这是野火燃烧的证据。
That is evidence of wildfires burning.
里面充满了纳米钻石，微小到肉眼看不见，是彗星撞击的典型产物，还有微球粒、一些铂和铱，这些都是彗星撞击的典型特征。
It's full of nanodiamonds, tiny little diamonds, microscopic size, are a classic product of comet impacts, microspherules, some platinum, some iridium, all signatures of a cometary impact.
就在这里。
And there it is.
这一层大约有五英寸厚。
It's about five inches thick.
这一层就是新仙女木期的边界层。
That layer is the Younger Dryas boundary layer.
这可以追溯到距今一万两千八百年前。
It dates to 12,800 years ago.
所以对于看不到的人，这就像一块切开的泥土，中间有一道黑色的线贯穿其中。
So for anyone that can't see, it's just like a slice of earth, and there's this black line going through through the earth.
我们所在的这个抽屉里，是河流冲刷出的沟渠，露出了沟壁的剖面。
We're in a drawer here where a river has cut a channel, and it's exposed the sides of the channel.
在沟壁上，我们可以看到这道黑色条带，它正是年轻的德赖亚斯边界层。
And on the sides of the channel, we can see this black stripe running through, and that is precisely the Younger Dryas boundary.
目前许多考古学家的假说是，在这个时间点——一万两千年前——并不存在人类文明。
And the current hypothesis is from a lot of archaeologists is there wasn't a human civilization before this point twelve thousand years ago.
对。
Right.
但你认为有充分证据表明，当时可能已经存在文明。
But you believe there's strong evidence that there could have been.
是的。
Yes.
按照你的定义，文明指的是什么？
Civilization then in your definition of the word, how do you define that?
一群人聚集起来共同协作？
A group of people gathering and working together?
本质上，文明涉及劳动力的有组织安排——无论是自愿还是被迫的。
Fundamentally, it involves it involves the willing organization or the unwilling organization of labor.
比如土耳其的哥贝克力石阵，我们的时间线上有提到，距今约一万一千六百年。
If you look at a site like Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, we have it on our timeline here somewhere, it's 11,600 years old.
这是一个非常非凡的遗址。
This is really an extraordinary site.
它的结构极其复杂。
It's a it's a very sophisticated site.
规模也非常庞大。
It's very large.
由许多巨大的T形石柱组成，每块重量可达二十吨。
It consists of large T shaped megaliths that can weigh up to 20 tons.
里面还有精确的天文对齐设计。
There are precise astronomical alignments in it.
这不可能是两三个人一起干出来的。
This was not done by two or three people working together.
如今，哥贝克力石阵上面盖着一个现代顶棚，主要是为了挡雨，毕竟它当初是被建造者故意掩埋的。
This was well, that's the Quebec Le Tepe today covered by a modern canopy to keep, fair enough to keep the the weather off it because it was previously deliberately buried by its builders.
但周围还有更多东西。
But, of course, there's much more around.
还有成百上千根石柱埋在地下。
Hundreds and hundreds more pillars are still underground.
我们通过地面雷达知道它们就在那儿，但还没开始挖掘。
We know they're there because of ground penetrating radar, but they've not been excavated yet.
所以这绝对是个大工程。
So so this was a major project.
有趣的是，哥贝克力石阵刚建造的时候，那一带根本还没有农业。
And interestingly, the people who built Gobekli Tepe, at that at the time Gobekli Tepe began, there was no agriculture happening there.
他们都是狩猎采集者。
They were all hunter gatherers.
对。
Mhmm.
尽管如此，他们却做了一件考古学家曾认为狩猎采集者根本做不到的事。
Nevertheless, they did something that archaeologists used to say hunter gatherers couldn't do.
他们组织了起来。
They organized themselves.
他们完成了一个庞大的工程。
They made a huge project.
他们不仅规划了，还真正实施并完成了它，而哥贝克力石阵并不是孤例。
They implemented it, and they delivered it, and Gobekli Tepe is not alone.
在土耳其安纳托利亚地区，类似这样的遗址还有几十处。
It's one of dozens of sites like that all over Anatolia in in in Turkey.
这是一支高度组织化、非常先进的狩猎采集文明所创造的成果。
This was a highly organized, sophisticated hunter gatherer civilization that was involved in making this place.
我有点搞不太清楚。
I'm I'm a little bit confused.
所以，冰河时代是一万一千七百年前结束的，对吧。
So if the Ice Age ended eleven thousand seven hundred years ago Yeah.
而哥贝克力石阵是一万一千六百年前的，嗯。
And Gobekki Tepe is eleven thousand six hundred years ago Mhmm.
这意味着冰河时代结束之后，只隔了一百年，就出现了哥贝克力石阵这么复杂的建筑。
That means there's a hundred year gap between the end of the Ice Age and something as sophisticated as Gobekki Tepe.
也不完全是这样。
Not exactly.
因为这类年代的测定本身并不精确。
Because because dates in this frame, they're not spot on accurate dates.
有些人说冰河时代是一万一千六百年前结束的。
Some will say the Ice Age ended 11,600.
也有人说是从一万一千七百年前开始结束的。
Some will say it ended 11,700 years ago.
但事实上，在这段时间里，世界正在重新变暖。
But the fact is that in this window, the world was warming up again.
环境在好转。
It was getting better.
而正是在这个时候，这个工程被建造了出来。
And that's when this project was was created.
让考古学家感到困惑的是，建造者竟然是狩猎采集者。
And the mystery is mystery for archaeologists anyway is that it was hunter gatherers.
如今，考古学家们不得不接受这个事实。
And archaeologists are now having to come to terms with that.
过去人们认为，要建造这样的工程，必须先有农业社会，因为只有这样，人才能成为专业分工的群体。
You see, the idea was you had to have an agricultural community first in order to create projects like this, because that allows people to become specialists.
如果你能稳定地获得多余的食物，就可以让一些有专长的人专心去做别的事。
If you generate a food surplus that you can rely on, then you can take people with certain skills and say, on that.
比如去当天文学家。
Become an astronomer.
当一名建筑师。
Become an architect.
当一名工程师。
Become an engineer.
我们会支持你实现这个目标。
We'll support you in doing that.
以前人们认为，像哥贝克力石阵这样的建筑，必须等到大约六千年前农业广泛出现之后才能建成，道理就在这儿。
That was the idea, that was why it was felt that something like Gobekli Tepe couldn't be built until about six thousand years ago when there was widespread agriculture.
但事实证明，这并不对。
But that turned out not to be true.
它是由狩猎采集者建造的，而就在它建成后的千年之内，农业就在这片地区出现了。
It was built by hunter gatherers, but within a thousand years of it being built, agriculture becomes present in that whole area.
农业的起源，肯定比我们以前学的要早得多。
Origins of agriculture are definitely earlier than we've than we've been taught.
挺有意思的是，我对冰河时代了解不多，但人类是怎么在冰河时代活下来的？
So funny because I I don't know a lot about the Ice Age, but humans survived the Ice Age?
天哪。
Oh, god.
是的。
Yes.
我们确实做到了。
We we we did.
冰河时期，你希望待在哪儿？
It's just it's just, where do you want to be during an Ice Age?
这才是关键问题。
That's the question.
我有哪些选择？
What are my options?
如果你是个理性的人——大多数人都是——你肯定会立刻排除北欧。
If you were a rational being, which most human beings are, you would immediately exclude Northern Europe.
对。
Mhmm.
待在那片冰天雪地、苦不堪言的荒原里完全没意义。
Absolutely no point in being in that frozen, miserable wilderness.
北美洲北部你也肯定会直接排除掉。
You'd immediately exclude the Northern part of North America too.
那儿根本没法待。
No point in being there.
那时候简直太糟糕了。
It's just horrible at that time.
西伯利亚？条件太恶劣了。
Siberia, pretty rough.
不行。
No.
你会想找热带地区。
You'd look for the tropics.
你会往南走，靠近赤道附近。
You'd go you'd go down close to the Equator.
你会去那些没受冰河时期影响的地方，那里才是地球上最宜居的地段。
You'd go to the places that weren't affected by the Ice Age, that were actually the best real estate on Earth.
那就是你该去的地方。
That's where you'd go.
所以，如果我们想找人类历史中缺失的那一段，再在北欧或北美找就是白费劲。
That's why if we are looking for a missing episode in the human story, we're wasting our time looking for it in Northern Europe or North America.
我们该去墨西哥找。
We should be looking for it in Mexico.
我们该去印度找。
We should be looking for it in India.
我们该去印度尼西亚找。
We should be looking for it in Indonesia.
我们该去巴布亚新几内亚一带找。
We should be looking for it, around Papua New Guinea.
这些地方在冰河时期都是特别适合居住的区域。
All of these areas that were that were really great places to live during the ice age.
那种地方，正是我所说的那种文明能够繁荣发展的理想环境。
That's that's the kind of place that the sort of civilization I'm talking about could have thrived.
那有什么不同呢？因为这里说最早的人类出现在三十万年前。
What is the different you know, because on here, it says the earliest known humans were 300,000 ago.
对。
Yeah.
三十万年前的人类，和你所说的两万年前那个你相信存在的文明，之间到底有什么区别？
What is the difference between these humans three hundred thousand years ago and the civilization you're describing twenty thousand years ago that you believe existed?
除了可能被误认为是外貌上的一点点进化——也就是自然选择作用在人类对美的认知上——其他方面其实没什么不同。
Apart from what is perhaps wrongly described as a slight refinement in human features, natural selection operating on what humans perceive as beauty, I don't know, but otherwise the same.
没什么不同？
The same?
没错，没什么不同。
The same.
是的。
Yeah.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
对。
Yeah.
而且，这一点也没有争议。
And, again, that's not that's not disputed.
没人说吉贝尔伊鲁德的人类和我们有什么不同。
Nobody's saying that Jibel ihrud human beings were somehow different from us.
他们就是解剖学意义上的现代人。
They're anatomically modern humans.
但他们当时是怎么生活的？和你所说的文明有什么区别？
But how did they live, versus your definition of a civilization?
他们过着简单的狩猎采集生活。
They lived a simple hunter gatherer life.
明白了。
Okay.
小群体生活。
In small groups.
是的。
Yeah.
但不知怎么的，大约在一万一千六百年前，人们开始建造那些只有大规模协作和有组织劳动才能完成的纪念碑。
But somehow, around 11,600 ago, people started accumulating monuments that can only be made with large groups and organized organized labor.
你必须有一套体系。
You've got to you you have to have a system.
你不可能在没有提前规划的情况下建起像哥贝克力石阵这样的建筑。
You have to you can't build something like Gobekli Tepe without planning it out in advance.
你总得先画出设计图吧。
You gotta draw it out somehow.
必须要有详细的计划。
There has to be a plan.
这可不是随便凑合就能搞定的事。
It's not something you just wing.
所以，这一切背后一定有某种我们还没发现的背景，这让我很在意。
So there has to there's a missing background to all of that, which bothers me.
而且，大多数人觉得文明是大约六千年前开始的，对吧？
And again, so most people think civilization started, what, six thousand years ago?
没错。
Yes.
那是文明在考古记录中开始显现的时间。
That would be when civilizations become archaeologically visible.
比如古代苏美尔和美索不达米亚，大约在公元前3500年——我用BC是因为大家都熟悉这个说法。
So, you have, ancient Sumer, Mesopotamia, which roughly 3,500 I'm gonna use BC because everybody's familiar with that.
公元前3500年，也就是大约五千五百年前。
There are roughly 3,500 BC, which is 5,500 years ago, approximately.
那时候我们开始看到城市兴建起来。
We start seeing cities being built.
文字的雏形也开始出现了。
We start seeing the beginnings of writing taking place.
差不多同一时期，埃及那边也发生了同样的变化。
Round about the same time, the same thing is happening in Egypt.
可能只晚了几个世纪，但埃及最新的研究发现，埃及文明的出现时间其实和苏美尔非常接近，时间差大大缩小了。
Maybe a couple of hundred years later, but the new work that's being done in Egypt is pushing Egypt much closer to to Sumer, narrowing that that window.
换句话说，这两个文明几乎在同一时间变得在考古上可识别，而且它们并不是孤立的——在世界的另一端，秘鲁也发现了一个被确认的文明，叫卡拉尔-苏佩文明，他们建了金字塔，历史同样可以追溯到5500年前。
Effectively, you can say that these two civilizations become archaeologically visible at the same time, and they're they're not alone because on the other side of the world, in Peru, there's a civilization now recognized called the Caral Supe civilization, which built pyramids, which also goes back 5,500 years.
这正是我现在正在研究的一个谜题：为什么世界各地几乎在同一时期，不约而同地出现了高度发达的文明？
And and this is one of the mysteries I'm I'm looking at now is is why we have these apparently coincidental emergence of high civilizations in the same window all around the world.
印度河谷文明也是差不多，大约5000年的历史。
Indus Valley civilization, roughly the same, 5,000 years old.
我们再来看看喀拉拉邦这里，想想看。
Yeah, we're looking at Kerala here, think.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
这些经典特征是前方有圆形广场，后面跟着金字塔，你知道，这种结构在秘鲁原本是没人料到的。
These classic the feature is these circular plazas in front of them and then the pyramid with a and and, you know, these were not and not expected in Peru.
考古学家一提到秘鲁，第一反应就是马丘比丘和印加文明。
When archaeologists think of Peru, they tend to think of Machu Picchu, the Inca civilization.
这些才是媒体最常报道的。
That's what gets all the coverage.
那是六百年前的事了。
And that's 600 years ago.
那是六百年前的事了。
That's 600 years ago.
那简直就跟昨天一样。
That's yesterday.
而卡拉尔苏佩金字塔、喀拉拉、阿斯帕罗、班杜里亚、佩尼科这些遗址要古老得多，早了上千年的历史。
Whereas these Carral Supe Pyramids, Keral, Asparo, Bandurria, Penico, these ones are much older, thousands of years older.
它们的建造水平非常先进。
They're extremely sophisticated.
采用了抗震的建筑技术。
They're built with an earthquake proof technology.
他们没有用石块，而是把小石头装进布袋里，这样结构在地震时能稍微移动，就不会倒塌。
They, instead of using blocks, they put small stones in in textile bags, and those allow a certain amount of shifting so the thing doesn't collapse in an earthquake.
这些金字塔已经有五千五百多年了。
And this is 5,500 years old getting on.
所以那时候还没有形成农业文明。
So again, not an agricultural civilization at that time.
他们是一个狩猎采集的文明。
They're a hunter gatherer civilization.
考古学家现在不得不重新审视他们的理论模型，而这个模型的颠覆，或许正揭示了人类历史上一段被遗忘的篇章。
So archaeologists are having to confront a reversal of their model at the moment, and I think there's room in that reversal of the model for a forgotten episode in the human story.
你能说说这段被遗忘的人类历史吗？
Tell me about this forgotten episode in the human story.
是的。
Yeah.
在世界各地的传说中，这都被记作一个黄金时代——没有暴力，没有残忍，伟大的疗愈者和智者活跃其间。那些如今被我们社会嗤之以鼻的能力，比如心灵感应和意念移物，被当时的古人视为再平常不过的生活事实。
It's, it's remembered it's remembered all around the world as a golden age, where there was no violence, no cruelty, where great healers and sages were at work, where powers that are scorned in our society today, such as telepathy and telekinesis, which are regarded as completely nonexistent by our scientists, were regarded as a matter of fact of life in in in this ancient world.
这是一个从萨满信仰中诞生，并且创造出美好事物的文明。
That's a civilization that emerged out of shamanism, and made something good.
但如果你继续深入研究这些神话，就会发现一些奇怪的事情发生了。
But then, if you follow the myths further, as I've done, you find something odd happens.
他们背离了最初的纯真，逐渐变成了一种试图向世界各地施加权力的文化。
You find that they stepped away from the original purity, that they've become a culture that begins to impose its power on others around the world.
而神话中总是把这场大灾难归咎于我们触怒了神明。
And that's always given as the reason for the cataclysm in the myths, that that we angered the gods.
也许是因为我们的喧嚣。
It might have been with our noise.
也许是因为我们的不敬。
It might have been with our irreverence.
我们惹怒了神明，于是他们降下洪水。
We angered the gods, and they sent a flood.
他们对自己创造的世界感到失望。
They weren't happy with their creation.
他们想重新开始，把一切从头来过。
They wanted to start again, wipe the slate clean.
所以神话里总有一种说不清的感觉，我也讲不明白。
And so there's this there's always this feeling in the myth, and it's and I can't explain it.
我不知道这感觉从哪儿来，但它一直都在——某种程度上，是我们自己招来了这场灾祸。
I don't know what what it comes from, but it's always there, is that in some way, we ourselves brought this upon ourselves.
这是不是因为那些人不懂自然的力量，才编出这种说法来解释？
Is this those people not understanding the forces of mother nature and trying to sort of justify it as
理论。
theory.
或者，这背后其实藏着对自然力量更深层的理解。
Or perhaps a deeper understanding of the forces of mother nature.
有可能。
Maybe.
也许，人类今天在世界上行事的方式，本身就应该被视为自然力量的一部分。
Perhaps the way that human beings are operating in the world today, should be included amongst the forces of nature.
我们本身就是一种地质力量。
We are a geological force.
更糟的是，我们还是一种充满愤怒、憎恨、猜疑和自我毁灭的心理力量。
And worse than that, we're a psychic force, which is full of anger and hatred and suspicion and mutual destruction.
这对自然来说可不是好事。
That's not gonna be good for nature.
这会带来巨大的动荡。
That's gonna be disturbing.
在我看来，我们是一个整体系统。
We're an integrated system in my view.
我们和自然并不是割裂的。
We're not separate.
人类是这一切的一部分，我们的行为会影响整个系统，这正是古代神话所暗示的。
Human beings are part of all of this, and what we do affects all of that, and that's what the ancient myths seem to testify to.
所以容我最后说一句：当我审视今天的文明时，我不想发牢骚，但说实话，我们现在的文明，正完美契合了所有关于下一个失落文明的神话征兆。
So if I may finish on that, when I look at our civilization today, I I don't wanna go off on a rant, but when I look at our civilization today, I see a civilization that ticks all the mythological boxes, every single one, for the next lost civilization.
我想象的是，一万年或一万五千年之后，我们会变成一个传说、一个幻想——我们的祖先居然能跨越地球两端对话，能飞到月球上去。
And I envisage a situation ten or fifteen thousand years from now when we will be a myth, a fantasy, that our our ancestors actually could speak to one another on opposite sides of the planet, that our ancestors, they could fly to the moon.
他们还能潜入海洋最深处。
You know, they could go to the depths of the ocean.
那时候的考古学家会说：这完全是胡扯，根本不可能发生，但事实是，这一切真的发生过。
The archaeologists of that time will say, complete fantasy, just made up, never happened, but it did.
我们就是那个失落的文明。
We're that lost civilization.
我们不需要彗星撞击，也不需要太阳活动。
And we don't need a comet, and we don't need solar activity.
就因为我们这个物种心理上已经彻底扭曲了，很可能最终是自己毁了自己。
Because of we're so psychically messed up as a species, we'll probably end up doing it to ourselves.
核武器说白了就是这么回事。
That's what nuclear weapons are about.
大规模的物种自毁。
Mass species suicide.
推动这一切的心理机制，对咱们现在这个世界来说，既危险又极其有效。
And the mental processes that drive that, Very dangerous, very effective of the world we live in.
仇恨是一种心理力量，而眼下全球正在这样制造、煽动和集中这种情绪，这对所有人都没好处。
Hatred is a psychic force, and, the way it's being generated around the world at the moment and mobilized and focused is, it's gotta be bad for all of us.
尤其是我们现在拥有如此强大的自我破坏能力。
Especially when we have such powers to self disrupt.
这太糟糕了。
Oh, it's terrible.
最让我受不了的就是，看看地球上这些所谓的领导人，意识水平低得惊人。
This is what drives me nuts is is looking at the low consciousness level of the so called leaders on this planet.
我一看他们所有人，只看到一群意识很低的人，凡事都用物质来衡量，还死死盯着这些，这也让我惹上麻烦。
When I look around the whole bunch of them, I just see very low consciousness individuals who define everything in material terms, who who are who are who are focused on this also gets me into trouble.
但我认为，民族主义是人类必须超越的东西。
But I I think nationalism is something that humanity needs to grow out of.
我们真的必须摆脱民族主义。
We need to grow out of nationalism.
这不过是部落主义的延伸。
It's just an extension of tribalism.
我们得赶紧摆脱它。
We need to grow out of it soon.
让我把话说清楚。
And let me be clear.
我不是在说世界政府。
I am not talking about world government.
我根本不想有任何政府。
I don't want anything like I don't want any government.
我本质上是个无政府主义者，这就是无政府主义的含义。
I'm an anarchist, basically, and that's what anarchy means.
意思是没有任何政府。
It means without government.
我根本不需要任何政府。
I don't want any government at all.
但我们得放下这种想法——我生来皮肤是什么颜色，这纯粹是个偶然。
But we have to get past this notion that by accident, I was born with this particular skin.
你知道的。
You know?
总以为出生时的这些偶然特征决定了我们是谁，觉得必须拼命尊重和爱惜长得像自己的人，同时讨厌、害怕那些长得不一样的人。
The notion is that these these accidents of birth define us, that we must somehow massively respect and love people who look like us and and and kinda hate and fear people who don't look like us.
我们得摆脱这种想法。
We have to get past that.
作为整个人类，我们都得摆脱这种想法。
We have to get past that as a species.
这真的很重要。
It's really important.
全世界所有人类，本质上都是一样的。
All human beings everywhere, all the same fundamentally.
当然，我们之间差异巨大。
Of course, we're vastly diverse.
我们每个人都有非凡的天赋。
We have we have incredible different gifts.
我尊重并欣赏世界各地不同文化的差异。
I value and appreciate the differences in different cultures all around the world.
这很好，但没必要附带一种‘我们比你们优越，要杀了你们，因为你们不认同我们的想法’的态度。
This is wonderful, but it doesn't have to come with, and we are better than you, and we're gonna kill you because you don't share our ideas.
这太荒谬了。
This is insane.
简直疯狂。
It's crazy.
我们还不是一个成熟的物种。
We're not a mature species.
我们更像是一个幼稚的物种。
We're we're a childish species.
带领人类的那些领导者，心态却像一群精神失常的青少年。
And leading our species are leaders who have the mentality of, deranged teenagers.
是我们选了他们。
We elected them.
是的。
Yeah.
我们确实选了，这很不幸，也说明了当今世界操纵舆论有多容易。
We did, very unfortunately, which shows how easy it is to manipulate, the narrative in the world today.
现在选举中胜出的，不是最有能力的人，不是品德最好的人，也不是真正想做好事的人。
Today, who wins in elections isn't the best person, isn't the good person, isn't the person who's going to do good.
而是最会说话的人赢。
It's the best communicator who wins.
所以，这个我们本可能已经遗忘的古老文明，你是在暗示，也许他们是对的——他们的行为确实引发了那场大洪水，就像神话里说的那样。
So this, ancient civilization that we could have theoretically forgotten, you are somewhat implying that maybe they were right, that their own actions caused the great flood, as they say they they they talk about in mythology.
我只是提出了这个想法。
Well, I floated that notion.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
他们可能确实如此。
They might they might have been.
但至少可以肯定的是，他们就是这么相信的，因为所有神话都说的是这个。
But it's enough to say that that's what they believed, because that's what all the myths say.
诺亚的故事早在苏美尔文明中就有雏形，几乎有着完全相同的洪水传说。
The Noah story is prefigured in ancient Sumer, with an almost identical flood myth.
众神震怒了。
The gods are angry.
一场大洪水即将降临。
A great flood is going to be sent.
他们的本意是毁灭人类，但有一位叫恩基的神告诉阿特拉哈西斯：我会救你。
The intention is to wipe out humanity, but this this god who's called Enki says to Atrahasis, I'm gonna save you.
造一艘船吧。
Build a boat.
现在就动手，造一艘大船。
Build it now, a big one.
把将来所有你需要的东西的种子都放进去。
Put into it the seeds of all things that you will need.
把每一种动物都带一对上船。
Bring each animal of every kind into your boat.
这简直就是一场生存方舟的故事，和诺亚方舟一模一样。
This is this is a kind of survival arc, which is exactly the same as Noah.
诺亚方舟就是照着这个抄的。
Noah's arc is just copied on that.
完全是借鉴了这个故事。
It's just borrowed from that.
有些人会说，这些不过是传说罢了。
And to people that say, well, these are just stories.
是有人编出来的虚构故事，代代相传，根本没什么真实性可言。
These are fictions that someone wrote, and then they pass them down, and there's no truth in these things at all.
他们愿意这么说，那就这么说吧。
They're welcome to say that.
我只是觉得不是这么回事，而我的工作就是去论证这一点。
I I I just happen to think they're not, and and my job has been to make that case.
我从没说过我已经证明了某个失落文明的存在。
I do not claim that I have proved there was a lost civilization.
任何说汉考克声称自己证明了这一点的考古学家，都是在撒谎。
Any archaeologist who says Hancock claims he's proved that is lying.
我从来没这么说过。
I don't claim that.
我只说自己感到困惑和不解，我会尽我所能，把这段探索走下去。
I claim I'm puzzled and mystified, and I'm gonna I'm gonna complete that journey as long as I can.
我会继续调查，深入研究这个话题的方方面面，因为这正是我该做的事。
I'm gonna carry on investigating and looking into all aspects of this because that's what I'm here to do.
你说的那个失落文明，你之前提到他们可能是靠海生活的，对吧？
And that lost civilization, you said they were sea bearing, potentially.
擅长航海的
Sea fairing.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
也就是说他们有船？
Which means they had boats?
是的
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
比如我们知道，解剖学上的现代人类早在六万年前就抵达了澳大利亚。
So we know, for example, that anatomically modern human beings reached Australia sixty thousand years ago.
这显然需要跨越相当远的海路。
That those involve significant sea journeys.
他们早在一万四千年前就到达了地中海的塞浦路斯。
They reached Cyprus, in the Mediterranean fourteen thousand years ago.
这同样需要跨海航行，但不是靠机动船，也不是金属船，用简单的船只就能做到。
Again, they involve sea journeys, not engine boats, not metal boats, but you can do it on quite simple craft.
看看波利尼西亚人吧。
Look at look at the Polynesians.
他们驾着独木舟，探索了如此广袤的海域。
Look at the vast distances that they explored on outrigger canoes.
所以，是的，有船，但不是我们这种船。
So, yeah, boats, but not our kind of boats.
我只是不明白，如果他们能乘船在海上航行，为什么不算作一种文明呢？
I just don't understand how if they're traveling the seas in boats, how they're they aren't classified as a civilization.
这是因为主流观点认为——而我正是想提供一个不同的解释——他们根本不存在。
Well, because according to the mainstream model, which I am trying to provide an alternative to, they never existed.
根本就没有这样一群人。
There was no such people.
他们根本没做过这些事。
They never did these things.
那些地图只是巧合，毫无意义。
The maps are just coincidences, irrelevance.
太奇怪了。
Just odd.
他们之所以在南极洲画出一块陆地，是觉得这样世界才能平衡。
They put Antarctica they put a a landmass in Antarctica because they felt it would balance the world.
这就是他们给出的解释。
That's the theory that's given.
但在我看来，这根本说不通。
And it's just to me, it's not it's not satisfactory.
这些事怎么都对不上。
Doesn't it just doesn't add up.
这些现象必须得有个合理的解释。
These things need to be explained.
所以，每一个渴望进步的社会，都需要特立独行的人——那些敢于逆流而行的人，哪怕要承受再多非议，也必不可少。
And it's why it's why in every society which wishes to make progress, mavericks, people who go against the grain, no matter how much shit they have to take, are needed.
在我们这个社会里，我们需要这样的人来平衡科学如今占据的压倒性地位。
They're needed in our society to provide a balance to this overwhelming mass that science now occupies.
科学现在已经占据了过去宗教在许多人心里的位置。
Science has now come to occupy the space that religion occupied in many people's minds.
我得再强调一遍，我并不是反对科学。
And again, I need to emphasize, I'm not against science.
科学马上就要救我的命了。
Science science is about to save my life.
我两周后就要做一场重大心脏手术。
I have major heart surgery coming up in two weeks' time.
我完全不反对它，但我认为它应该只是我们工具箱里的一种工具，而不是唯一的选择。
I'm not against it at all, but I think it should be one weapon in our armory, not the only weapon.
我特别好奇的一件事是，因为上周我刚去过那里，就是这个地方。
One of the, things I was super curious about, because I was actually there last last week, is this place.
吉萨
Giza.
吉萨金字塔
Pyramids Of Giza.
吉萨大金字塔
The Great Pyramid Of Giza.
我们看到的这座金字塔，据说是第四王朝法老胡夫下令建造的。
Here we look at it, attributed to the pharaoh Khufu, who was a pharaoh of the fourth dynasty.
这里到底有什么神秘之处？
What is the mystery here?
金字塔其实就是埃及一堆巨大的混凝土块堆起来的建筑。
So, again, pyramids are this big stack of, like, concrete blocks in Egypt.
那为什么它会这么神秘呢？
What is the why is it so mysterious?
首先，
Well, first of
首先，它们不是混凝土做的。
all, they're not concrete.
而是用切割好的石灰岩和花岗岩建成的。
They're they're hewn limestone, and granite.
首先，它的巨大规模就让人感到神秘。
First of all, it's mysterious for the sheer size of it.
你看。
Look.
每条边大约有750英尺长。
So you got roughly 750 feet along each side.
明白吗？
Okay?
各边长度的误差只有几分之一英寸。
And they vary in length by only fractions of an inch.
边长几乎精确到毫厘不差，而金字塔正需要这样的精度。
They've got it just about spot on exact on the side length, and you want that in a pyramid.
因为一旦搞错了，最后建出来的就不是金字塔，而是一个螺旋状的结构。
Because if you get it wrong, you're gonna end up with a corkscrew rather than a pyramid.
如果底部出错，误差会越积越多，越来越严重，到最后根本成不了金字塔。
If you get it wrong at the bottom, those errors are gonna magnify, they're gonna get worse and worse, and there's not gonna be a pyramid at the end of the day.
其次，总重量估计有六百万吨，超过两百万块独立的石块。
Secondly, weight calculated at about 6,000,000 tons, more than 2,000,000 individual blocks of stone.
我一共爬过五次金字塔。
I've climbed the pyramid five times.
有一次，吉萨高原上正在举办野餐活动，很多游客干脆直接爬上了金字塔。
Once I climbed it when there was an event taking place on the Giza Plateau picnics, basically, and and a lot of Kyrenes just decided to climb the pyramid.
我说过，其他四次我都是一个人爬的，但那次金字塔上挤满了几百人。
As I said, I've climbed it four other times without other people there, but this time, there were hundreds of people on the pyramid.
那时我才真正意识到，建造这座建筑有多难——最大的危险不是石头，而是人。
That's when I realized how difficult this thing is to make because the biggest danger was the other people.
一旦你爬到两三层高，一不小心就会摔下来。
Once you're up two or three courses, you fall.
你肯定会摔死。
You're dead.
坡度足足有52度。
It's a it's it's a 52 degree slope.
你根本停不下来。
There's no way you're gonna stop.
一旦滑下去，就完蛋了，每年还是有人在胡夫金字塔上丧命。
You're gonna come down, and still every year, people die on the Great Pyramid.
所以现在爬金字塔已经违法了。
That's why they've made it illegal to climb it now.
这就是原因之一。
So there's that.
还有就是胡夫金字塔与真北方向的精准对齐——不是磁北，磁北跟真北差了十到十一度，而是天文意义上的真北。
Then there's the almost perfect alignment of the Great Pyramid to true north, not to compass north, which is about 10 or 11 degrees off true north, but to astronomical north, real north.
胡夫金字塔的偏差不超过三十六分之一度。
The Great Pyramid is aligned within three sixtieth of a single degree.
我这么说是因为一度分成六十分，所以是三分的弧度。
I put it that way because degrees are divided into sixty minutes, so three minutes of arc.
大金字塔的对齐精度达到了这个水平——三分的弧度，正对真北。
The Great Pyramid is aligned to that level of precision, three sixtieth of a single degree, the true north.
他们在一个六百万吨重、高四百八十一英尺（按原始高度计算）的巨物上做到了，坡度五十二度，内部还有无数通道和空间，比如大走廊、上升通道、下降通道。
And they've done that on a 6,000,000 ton monument, which is 481 feet high, if you take account of its original height, which has a 52 degree slope, which is filled with internal corridors and spaces, grand gallery, the ascending, the descending corridors.
要完成这一切，难度极高。
All of this is extremely difficult to do.
这当然不是不可能，毕竟它就摆在那儿。
It is it's not impossible to do because we see it there.
我们的文明能办到吗？
Could our civilization do it?
当然可以。
Yeah.
我觉得我们做得到。
I think we could.
但我们真会这么做吗？
But would we do it?
不会。
No.
我觉得我们不会。
I don't think we would.
没有这样的动力。
The motive wouldn't be there.
人们会问，干嘛呀？
People say, what the why?
我的意思是，为什么？
I mean, why?
你真希望它完美对准真北？
Do you want to align it perfectly to True North?
让我建一座六百万吨的巨碑已经够难了，你还非得让它对准真北？
It's enough to ask me to build a 6,000,000 ton monument, but you want it aligned to True North as well?
得了吧。
Come on.
我的意思是，这个要求也太苛刻了。
I mean, that's a really difficult specification.
我们觉得这很难做到。
We find that hard.
建造大金字塔不仅靠技术，还融入了艺术匠心。
A kind of artistry was put to work on the Great Pyramid as well as skill.
别再以为那是奴隶干的活了。
Let's get rid of any notion that slaves were involved.
根本不是奴隶干的。
They were not.
古王国时期本来就没有奴隶制，这座金字塔从第一块石头到最后一块，都是人们满怀热忱建造的。
There there wasn't slavery in the old kingdom anyway, but this is a work of love from the first to the last stone.
这是一件充满精湛技艺与用心的作品。
It's a work done with great skill and care.
这座金字塔内外都美得惊人。
It's a beautiful and extraordinary thing both inside and out.
它几乎正好坐落在北纬三十度，也就是从北极到赤道的三分之一处。
It sits almost exactly on latitude thirty, which is one third of the way between the North Pole and the Equator.
它的尺寸本身，就以一比四万三千二百的比例，包含了地球的尺寸数据。
And, it incorporates the dimensions of the Earth on a scale of one to 43,200 in its own dimensions.
如果你拿金字塔的高度乘以四万三千二百——我待会儿解释为什么这个数字重要——
So if you take the height of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43,200 I'll explain why that number matters.
乘出来就是地球的极半径。
Multiply it by that number, you get the polar radius of the Earth.
再量一量金字塔的底座周长，用同样的数字四万三千二百去乘，得到的就是地球的赤道周长。
Measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid, multiply it by the same factor, 43,200, you get the equatorial circumference of the earth.
考古学家们其实都知道这些。
Archaeologists know this.
但他们说这纯属巧合，完全是偶然。
They say it's a coincidence, total coincidence, just by chance.
不过，如果比例不是1比43200，我倒是可以同意他们的说法。
However, I could agree with them, actually, if the scale was not one to 43,200.
但关键是这个比例正好是1比43200，这就完全不同了，因为这个数字属于一组在全球古代神话中反复出现的序列。
But the fact that it's one to 43,200 changes everything because that belongs to a sequence of numbers that is found in ancient mythology all around the world.
这些数字都是72的倍数。
And those numbers are all multiples of the number 72.
我开头提到过，那位麻省理工学院科学史教授、著名历史学家乔治奥·德·桑蒂利亚纳的著作。
And I mentioned at the beginning of our discussion, the book by the great historian of science, Giorgio de Santigliano, professor of the history of science at MIT.
他是第一个指出，这些数字及其相关的图像，都源自一种叫做‘岁差’的现象。
He was the first to identify that these numbers and the imagery that go with them derive from a phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes.
我得稍微解释一下这个概念。
I better explain that a little bit.
岁差，大家应该都听过那首歌吧——我们正迎来宝瓶座时代的黎明。
The precession of the equinoxes everybody's heard the song, we live in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.
我相信你一定听过这句话。
I'm sure you've heard that.
没什么好说的。
No comment.
我们正处在水瓶座时代的开端。
We live in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.
这属于占星术。
That's astrology.
在过去两千年来，每年春分时，太阳都是在双鱼座的背景中升起。
At the moment, for the last two thousand years, on the spring equinox, the sun has risen against the background of the constellation of Pisces.
这就是双鱼座时代。
That's the Age of Pisces.
我们现在就生活在双鱼座时代。
We live in the Age of Pisces.
早期基督徒用鱼作为象征，并不是偶然的。
It's not an accident that the early Christians used the fish as their symbol.
沿着黄道逆着方向看下去，下一个星座就是水瓶座。
The next constellation on the zodiac, when you go backwards around it, is Aquarius.
岁差实际上是地球自转轴发生晃动造成的。
And the precession is actually caused by a wobble on the axis of the Earth.
我假设这个就是地球。
I'm gonna pretend that this is the Earth.
好的。
Okay.
它一边转，一边还这么晃动。
And instead of just doing this, while it's doing that, it's also doing that.
它在晃动。
It's wobbling.
对。
Mhmm.
这会影响特定恒星升起的时间和季节。
And that affects the rising time and season at which particular stars rise.
它明显影响两方面。
It affects two things noticeably.
它影响的一个方面是北极星。
One thing it affects is the pole star.
目前的北极星是勾陈一。
At the moment, the pole star is Polaris.
北极星指向的是天文上的北方。
The pole star this is astronomical north.
它就是地球自转轴最直接指向的那颗星。
It's the star towards which the extended North Pole pole of the earth points most directly.
明白了。
Okay.
现在确实是勾陈一。
At present, it's Polaris.
但历史上它并不一直都是勾陈一。
It It hasn't always been Polaris.
四千年前，北极星是天龙座的右枢。
Four thousand years ago, it was Thuban in the constellation of Draco.
这是因为地球的自转轴正在这样移动。
That's because the Earth's axis is doing this.
在地平线上，它对黄道星座也产生同样的影响。
At the horizon, it does the same thing with the zodiacal constellations.
我们缓慢地经过每一个星座，每个星座大约持续两千年。
We shift gradually through each constellation, lasts about two thousand years in each constellation.
完成一个完整周期、回到原点的‘大年’，不到二万六千年。
The great year where we come back to square one is just under twenty six thousand years.
在古代神话中，普遍采用的是二万五千九百二十年这个数字。
Twenty five thousand nine hundred and twenty years is the convention that's applied in ancient mythology.
在我看来，这个数字恰好被用来编码大金字塔的尺寸，绝非偶然。
So the fact that one of those numbers is the scale used to encode the dimensions of the earth in the Great Pyramid cannot be accidental in my view.
这显然是有意为之。
It's a deliberate choice.
如果比例是一比五万七千，我根本不会在意。
If it was one to 57,000, I wouldn't pay attention to it.
如果是1比21000，我根本不会在意。
If it was one to 21,000, I wouldn't pay attention to it.
但1比43200，这正好是《梨俱吠陀》里的音节总数。
But one to 43,200, that's the number of syllables in the Rig Veda, for example.
这种现象在世界各地都能找到。
You find this all over the world, everywhere.
那这说明了什么？
So what does that imply or suggest?
这暗示着，建造大金字塔时所用的知识，本不该在四千五百年前就存在。
What it suggests is that incorporated into the building of the Great Pyramid was knowledge that was not supposed to have existed four and a half thousand years ago.
事实上，这些知识本该到两千年前才被发现。
In fact, knowledge that was not supposed to have existed until two thousand years ago.
亚历山大的喜帕恰斯被认为是发现岁差的希腊人，但大金字塔的结构里包含了岁差信息，这让我觉得，这种知识要古老得多。
Hipparchus of Alexandria is the Greek who was supposed to have discovered precession, but the incorporation of precession in the structure of the Great Pyramid says to me that that knowledge is much older.
那时候，它就已经很古老了。
It was already old then.
我真想确认一下自己是不是真的理解了岁差这个概念，因为我还不太清楚。
I really wanna make sure I'm clear on this precession thing because I'm not I'm not super clear.
对。
Yeah.
那岁差到底是什么意思呢？
And what does it what does it mean, precession?
意思是说，我们每两万年才会看到一次固定的星象排列？
It means that there's a certain star pattern that we see once every twenty thousand years?
它是在缓慢地移动。
It it it it precesses.
方向是反过来的。
It goes backwards.
明白了。
Okay.
正常情况下，黄道的运行方向是向前的。
The direction through the through the zodiac is is forwards in the normal year.
但在漫长的年份里，由于地轴的摆动，春分日的日出位置相对于黄道背景会慢慢移动。
But in the long term year, because of the wobble, the sunrise against the background of the spring equinox.
日出总是正东方向升起。
The sunrise is perfectly due east.
一直都是这样。
It always does.
对。
Mhmm.
秋分日的时候，太阳也是正东升起。
It also rises perfectly due east on the autumn equinox.
夏至时，太阳在北半球从东北方升起；冬至时，则从东南方升起。
On the summer solstice, the sun rises in the Northern hemisphere, North of East, and South of east on winter solstice.
对古人来说，最关键的是春分和秋分。
The key moment for the ancients was the equinox.
他们认为这决定了全年的特质，而决定因素就是太阳所在的星座，也就是太阳的‘居所’。
It was considered to define the character of the year, and what defined it was the constellation that housed the sun, that was the house of the sun.
明白了。
Okay.
所以是星座的排列。
So the star pattern.
对。
Yeah.
黄道十二宫的星座。
The zodiacal constellation.
黄道十二宫的星座都分布在黄道上，也就是太阳运行的轨迹。
These the constellations of the zodiac lie along what is called the ecliptic, the path of the sun.
好的。
Okay.
清楚了吗？
Okay?
地球、月亮，我们所有人，都位于黄道附近，偏差只有几度。
The the earth, the moon, we're all on the ecliptic within a few degrees above or below it.
因此，这些是我们能看到太阳在背后映衬的星座。
And and therefore, these are constellations that we can see the sun against the background of.
对。
Mhmm.
像猎户座这样的星座，你永远看不到太阳出现在它背后。
Constellation like Orion, you'll never see the sun against the background of it.
你只能看到太阳出现在那些位于所谓太阳运行轨迹上的黄道星座背后。
You're only gonna see it against the background of the zodiacal constellations that lie on the so called path of the sun.
这十二个就是大家熟悉的黄道星座。
And those are the 12 familiar constellations of the zodiac.
正如我所说，我们现在正处于双鱼座时代。
And as I say, we're living in the Age of Pisces right now.
根据古代占星学，大约再过一百五十年，我们就会进入水瓶座时代。
And, according to ancient astrology, we're going to be making the transition into Aquarius within about the next hundred and fifty years.
太阳将离开双鱼座，开始在水瓶座升起。
The sun will have left Pisces and will be rising in Aquarius.
所以，这首歌其实说得没错。
So, actually, the song is true.
我们确实正处在水瓶时代的黎明时期。
We do live in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.
唯一的问题是，这到底有没有什么意义。
The only question is whether that means anything or not.
古人认为是有意义的。
The ancients thought it did.
我们认为没有。
We think it doesn't.
我不确定谁对谁错。
I'm not sure who's right.
我再复述一遍，确认我有没有理解对。
So I'm gonna repeat this back to you to check if I'm I've got it correctly.
对。
Mhmm.
但我怀疑我可能没理解对。
But I suspect I might not have.
金字塔的设计里有一个数字，你说是43200。
Within the design of the pyramids, there was a number, which you said was 43,200
这是一个比例。
scale.
没错，是个比例。
It's a scale.
这个比例用在大金字塔的高度和底座周长上。
It's a scale that's used for the height and the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid.
底座周长是四边加起来的长度，高度则是大金字塔的实际高度。
Base perimeter, measure four sides, add it together, height, the actual height of the Great Pyramid.
它原本的真正高度在1301年的一场地震中损失了大约30英尺，但你可以通过侧面的倾斜角度推算出原始高度。
Its true original height, it lost about 30 feet in an earthquake in 1301, but you can calculate the true original height from the angle of the of the sides.
啊，对。
Ah, yeah.
对。
Right.
当你把这个高度乘以43200，得到的就是地球的极半径。
And when you take that height and multiply it by 43,200, you get the polar radius of the Earth.
你得到的是地球的
You get the radius of the
半径。
Earth.
就是从地球中心到地表的距离。
That's from the center of the Earth to the edge of the Earth.
不是地球的直径。
It's not the diameter of the Earth.
直径是半径的两倍。
The diameter is twice the radius.
是极半径。
It's the it's the polar radius.
好的。
Okay.
地球的一个关键尺寸。
A key dimension of the Earth.
量一下边长，按同样的比例一比四万三千二百，就能得到地球的赤道周长，也就是地球最宽处的测量值。
Measure the sides, and you get, on the same scale, one to 43,200, you get the equatorial circumference of the earth, what the earth measures at its equator, its largest its largest measure.
这要么是巧合，要么是刻意设计的。
And and that, is either a coincidence or it's deliberate.
因为选了这个数字，而且这个数字在古代神话里到处都是，我觉得是故意的。
And because of the number chosen and because that number is all over ancient mythology, I think it's deliberate.
那是不是意味着他们早就知道地球的周长？
Did that means that they must have known the circumference of the earth?
是的。
Yeah.
这说明他们不仅知道地球的周长，还特意选了这个地方来建造大金字塔，这也不是偶然的。
It means that they knew the circumference of the earth, and it means they chose a place to put the Great Pyramid, which also was relevant.
这可不是北纬二十三度或者北纬三十七度。
This isn't latitude twenty three or latitude thirty seven.
这只是北纬三十度的一小部分。
This is just a fraction of latitude thirty degrees north.
所以，它正好位于赤道和北极之间三分之一的位置。
So therefore, one third of the way between the Equator and the North Pole.
这个比例非常关键。
It's a it's a it's a significant relative.
它告诉我们，这座纪念碑是在与地球对话。
What it's telling us is this monument speaks to the Earth.
这座纪念碑精准地对准了地球的真北方向。
This monument is locked into the true north of this planet.
这座纪念碑揭示了地球的精确尺寸。
This monument gives you the dimensions of this planet.
这座纪念碑正在向地球传递信息。
This monument is speaking to this planet.
他们是怎么可能在四千五百年前就知道地球的周长的？
How could they possibly know the circumference of the Earth four thousand five hundred years ago?
因为他们是一个失落的文明。
Because they're a lost civilization.
因为这些知识是从更早的时代传承下来的。
Because the the knowledge comes down from a former time.
我不觉得古埃及人知道这些。
I don't think the Egyptians knew it.
我觉得是传承下来的。
I think it came down.
我认为这是从远古继承来的智慧，而我在这里想倡导和说明的，是人类历史上曾发生过一段被遗忘的重大事件。
I think it was inherited knowledge from what I'm here to advocate for and to speak for, the possibility of a major forgotten episode in the human story.
那会不会是两万年前的事，然后他们通过神话和传说一代代传下来的？
Which could be twenty thousand years ago, and they've passed it down in in myths and stories?
对。
Yes.
不只是通过神话和故事传承下来的。
Passed it down, but not only in myths and stories.
这里我先稍微提一下，我打算在新书里详细探讨：这些文明中似乎都存在某种组织。
This is something else that I will I'll just hint at here that I intend to get into in the new book, is that there appear to have been organizations in each of these civilizations.
在埃及，他们被称为荷鲁斯的追随者。
In Egypt, they were called the followers of Horus.
在苏美尔，他们被称为阿普卡拉。
In Sumer, they were called the Apkallu.
他们担任国王的顾问。
They served as advisers to kings.
这些人被称为智者。
They were called sages.
文献中确实有关于他们的记载。
There's a reference to them.
许多文化都称他们为七位智者。
Many cultures refer to them as the seven sages.
在历史上，他们为国王提供咨询。
They provided advice to kings in the historical period.
我在想，我们是不是在面对一个长期存在的组织，它一直在传递信息，等待合适的时机重新启动文明的引擎。
And I'm wondering whether we're looking at some kind of long lived organization here, which is carrying down information, looking for the right time to switch the engine of civilization back on again.
我知道这听起来很极端，但这就是我的工作方式。
I know it sounds extreme, but, that's what I do.
我专门研究各种极端的想法，看看它们是否站得住脚。
I explore I explore extreme ideas and see whether and see whether they fit or not.
我开始觉得，这个观点其实是说得通的。
And I'm beginning to find this idea does fit.
它能和一系列将在下本书中呈现的信息吻合。
It it fits with a whole range of information, which will be in the next book.
一位向国王汇报的智者，完全听命于国王。
A sage that reports to the king and Totally reports to
就是给国王提供建议的人。
the king that advises the king.
关于什么？
On what?
关于一切，关于该怎么做。
On everything, on what to do.
哦，明白了。
Oh, okay.
是的。
Yeah.
在苏美尔的古老传统中，阿普卡拉存在于大洪水之前的世界。
The Apkallu in the ancient traditions of Sumer, they existed in the pre diluvian world.
他们在洪水来临前就已存在。
They were there in the world before the flood.
然后他们将知识传授给了人类。
Then they're and and they taught mankind knowledge then.
但洪水来了，灾难降临，他们被彻底消灭了。
But the flood came, the cataclysm came, they were wiped out.
但有一些阿普卡拉幸存了下来，洪水之后，他们出现在苏美尔最早几位历史国王身边，担任顾问。
But some of the abkallu survived, and they appear after the flood as advisers to the earliest historical kings of Sumer.
我只是在想，世界上有没有哪些宗教，几千年来一直保持着传统和职位，比如祭司体系？
And I'm just wondering whether, you know, there are there are religions in the world which have maintained traditions and maintained offices, priesthoods, for example, for thousands of years.
我看不出为什么这里就不该是这样，为什么在冰河时代末期，人们没有动力去保存他们所知道的知识，并找到传递这些知识的方法。
I don't see why the same shouldn't be true here, why there shouldn't have been some driving motive at the end of the ice age to preserve in a way what they knew and to find mechanisms to pass it down.
一种方式就是把它们融入精彩的故事里，让这些故事一代代传下去。
One mechanism is to embed it in wonderful stories that will go on being told.
另一种方式就是建立某种秘密组织，暗中运作，引导和影响社会的发展。
And another mechanism is to set up some kind of secret society, which is operating behind the scenes to guide and steer society.
我在这里不会提供这方面的证据，但这是我正在探索的一个方向。
I'm not going to present the evidence for that here, but it's an avenue I'm pursuing.
如果我觉得这条路走不通，我就会放弃。
If I if I don't find it a satisfactory avenue, I'll abandon it.
但目前来看，这个方向非常有意思。
But at the moment, it's looking very interesting.
那这些信息后来都到哪儿去了呢？
Then where did all this information go?
你知道的。
You know?
如果建造吉萨金字塔的人掌握着这些知识，那些智者又把他们的知识带去哪儿了？
Because if if the people who built the Pyramids Of Giza had this information, where did the sages go with their information?
是的。
Yeah.
这其实挺奇怪的。
It's it's very odd, actually.
吉萨之后发生的事特别有意思。
What happens after Giza is fascinating.
因为一过了第四王朝，进入第五、第六王朝，金字塔的建造就突然停了。
Because once you leave the fourth dynasty period, get into the fifth and sixth dynasties, pyramid building collapses.
第五王朝时期的东西，比如萨卡拉的乌纳斯金字塔，内部装饰美得惊人。
The stuff they're making in the fifth dynasty, like the Pyramid Of Unas, fifth dynasty pyramid in Saqqara, inside, it's stunningly beautiful.
墓室美极了，天花板上满是星星，四周的象形文字精美绝伦。
Beautiful tomb chamber, stars on the ceiling, incredible hieroglyphs on the side.
简直像魔法一样。
It's magical.
但外面呢，就是一堆废土。
But outside, it's just a pile of dust.
乱七八糟的。
It's a mess.
根本看不出是个金字塔，所有那些晚期的金字塔都这样。
It doesn't even you could hardly recognize it as a pyramid, and it's true of all those.
这本身就很奇怪。
So this is odd in itself.
一般来说，人类文明一旦创造出什么东西，都会不断改进，越做越好，而不是越来越差。
Normally, when human cultures create something, they continue to work on it, and it tends to get better and better, not worse and worse.
所以埃及的金字塔反而越来越差，这确实很反常。
So it's odd what happens to the pyramids, that they get worse and worse in Egypt.
好像任务完成了。
It's like, job done.
干完了。
Done that.
接着干别的吧。
Move on.
就摆在这儿了。
And that's there.
它将向人类传达信息，不只是这一代人，也不只是百年之内。
And that's gonna speak to human beings not just for a generation, not just for a hundred years.
它会一直在这里，向我们诉说数千年之久。
It's gonna be there speaking to us for thousands of years.
它将静卧在吉萨高原上，像个巨大的问号，吸引那些不只把它看作一堆石头的人，而是真正看到它那奇妙、宏伟与神秘之处的人。
It's gonna be sitting there on the Giza Plateau like an enormous question mark, calling towards it, those who don't see it just as a heap of stones, but actually see it as something wonderful and magnificent and mysterious.
召唤他们前来，说：了解我吧。
Calling them to it and saying, learn about me.
试着了解我。
Figure me out.
在了解我的过程中，你会学到很多其他东西。
And in the process of learning about me, you're gonna learn so much else.
研究大金字塔时我发现，它里面藏着一些天文信息，按照现在对科学史的理解，这些信息根本不可能存在。
Well, in learning about the Great Pyramid, I find that it is encoded with astronomical information that should not be there if the current model of the history of science is correct.
我觉得现行的科学史观是错的。
I think the current model of the history of science is wrong.
我认为这些知识早在很久以前就被掌握了，并且被编码进了大金字塔里。
I think this information was known much earlier, and it's encoded in the Great Pyramid.
一旦明白了这点，我就不得不思考：这还意味着什么？对我而言，这意味着我们的历史中有一段被遗忘的重要篇章。
Once I know that, then I have to start thinking what else does that mean, and what else it means to me is a big forgotten episode in our story.
那为什么呢？
Again, why?
是因为当时的人其实拥有我们没意识到的智慧吗？
Because they had intelligence that they're not credited with having at that time?
是的。
Yes.
因为这东西就在那儿。
Because it's there.
不可能有这么宏大的建筑，里面却包含了人类再过两千五百年才该掌握的知识。
Because there should not be a monument of this scale which incorporates into it information that was not supposed to be available to human beings for another two and a half thousand years.
所以它们一定是从某个地方得来的。
So they must have got it from somewhere.
是的。
Yes.
他们一定是从某个地方得来的。
They must have got it from somewhere.
而它就在那儿，这是个不争的事实。
And and, the fact that it's there is is just a fact.
剩下的唯一可能就是，要么是纯粹的巧合，要么是有人故意设计的。
All that's left for us to say is either it's a coincidence, complete coincidence, or it's the result of a deliberate decision.
如果这是有意为之，那这个规模本身就更说明问题了，因为这个尺度属于一套遍布古代世界的系统。
And if it's the result of a deliberate decision, that weighs much more towards a deliberate decision because of the scale chosen, because the scale is part of a system that is found all over the ancient world.
这不是一个随意的数字。
It's not a random number.
这是一个非常特定的数字。
It's a very specific number.
这个数字来源于地球自身的运动——地轴的进动。
And it's a number that is derived from a motion of the earth itself, from the precession of the earth's axis.
它正是从这里推算出来的。
It is derived from that.
我所处的位置有着特殊的纬度。
So I'm situated at a significant latitude.
我正对着真北，并且把你们星球的测量数据，以源自你们星球本身的尺度融入了设计中。
I'm oriented to true north, and I incorporate the measurements of your planet on a scale derived from your planet itself.
大金字塔想告诉我们的就是这些，它在说：去解开这个谜吧。
That's what the Great Pyramid is saying to us, and it's saying, figure that out.
你觉得下面还有什么吗？
Do you think there's something underneath it?
下面肯定还有东西。
Oh, there's definitely something underneath it.
我们通常觉得它像个建筑，里面还藏着隧道。
Because we think of it as a sort of, like, building with the with tunnels inside it.
对。
Yeah.
现在你进入大金字塔，是从所谓的盗墓者通道或者马蒙洞进去的。
When you go into the Great Pyramid now, you go in through what is what is called the Robbers' Tunnel or Mamun's Hole.
当时的哈里发马蒙认为，大金字塔的北面应该有个入口。
The Caliphal Mamun had a notion that there would be a entrance to the Great Pyramid in its northern face.
其他金字塔的入口确实都在北面。
Other pyramids had been found with entrances in their northern face.
但那时候，大金字塔外面完全被光滑的白色石灰石覆盖着，根本看不到入口在哪。
But at that time, the Great Pyramid was completely covered with perfectly smooth limestone facing stones, and nobody could see the entrance.
后来在1301年的那场地震中，这些石块才脱落，但九世纪他强行闯入时，根本不知道门在哪儿。
They came off later in that earthquake in 1301, but when he broke in in the ninth century, they didn't know where the door was.
据说那里有个地方，几乎像按个开关就能打开门，可他们就是找不到。
Apparently, there was a place you could almost literally press a switch and open that door, but they couldn't find it.
于是他们用大锤和凿子硬砸，一路打进了大金字塔。
So they broke in with sledgehammers and chisels, and they smashed their way into the Great Pyramid.
当他们深入金字塔大约六七十英尺时，突然听到有东西掉进了一个空洞里。
And then, at a certain moment, when they're about 60 or 70 feet into the Great Pyramid, they hear something dropping in a hollow space.
有个大东西掉进了空洞里。
A big something has fallen in a hollow space.
他们循着声音过去，结果发现了大金字塔原有的通道系统。
They head towards that sound, and then they enter the original corridor system of the Great Pyramid.
我们现在进金字塔，走的就是这条路。
And that's the way we all go in now.
我们从这个盗贼通道进去，然后爬上大走廊，但也可以往下走。
We go in through that Roberts Tunnel, and then we go up the Grand Gallery, but we can also go down.
我们可以下到地下 chambers，那里位于大金字塔基座正下方一百英尺深的基岩中。
We can go down to the subterranean chamber, which is a 100 feet vertically beneath the base of the Great Pyramid, deep in the bedrock.
我觉得，真正最初神圣的地方，其实就是这个地下空间。
I actually think that was the original sacred site on that monument is that subterranean chamber.
有幽闭恐惧症的人，我真不建议下去。
I don't advise anybody with claustrophobia to go down there.
你会强烈感觉到，头顶上压着六百万吨重的金字塔，而且它还经历过地震。
You're very conscious that you got a 6,000,000 ton monument sitting right above you and it placed as earthquakes.
那种压迫感真的挺强的。
It can be quite oppressive.
但这只是吉萨高原地下世界的一小部分而已。
But that's just a hint of what's under the Giza Plateau.
这只是其中能接触到的一小块区域。
That's just that's an accessible bit.
但很明显，底下还有更多我们还没发现的东西。
But it's it's it's already obvious that there that there is so much more.
有些地方是用探地雷达探测到的。
Some of it's been picked up with ground penetrating radar.
趁这个机会，我想说，主流科学家对菲利波·比翁迪的发现反应太过激烈了。
And I'll take this opportunity to say that the hysterical reaction of mainstream scientists to the announcement by Filippo Biondi
他到底说了什么？
What is he saying?
他说在第二座金字塔下面有巨大的结构。
He's saying that there are enormous structures under the second Pyramid.
不是大金字塔，而是在属于哈夫拉——胡夫继任者——的那座金字塔下面。
They're not the Great Pyramid, under the pyramid attributed to Khafre, Khufu's successor.
那些结构深入地下几百英尺，包含类似螺旋楼梯的构造，但学界几乎全盘否定了这个说法。
The the structures that go hundreds of feet deep under there, structures that involve spiral kind of stairways, the reaction has been overwhelmingly dismissing this.
考古学家们根本不肯进一步调查。
Archaeologists have not they won't look further.
他们说这不可能，也不愿意去查看。
They say it's impossible, and they won't look at it.
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