布鲁诺·费尔南德斯：罗伊·基恩曲解了我的话。他们给我2亿英镑，我拒绝了。

那时候正好赶上疫情，各种事情都乱糟糟的，但从那之后到赛季结束，球队的表现简直不可思议。

And I think at that time, that period of then we had the COVID time and all the stuff, but that period from there to the end of the season, the team was unbelievable.

接下来那个赛季我们拿到了第二名，只是在某些时候，我们没能跟上曼城的脚步，他们那个赛季末段状态实在太好了。

And the season after we got second place, and because we struggled in certain moments of keeping keeping up to to the standard of City that had a very good end of season.

但我心里没想着‘我得把这问题解决掉’，

But for me, it was like I wasn't like, I'll I'll fix that.

我想到的是，我要成为那个点石成金的魔法粉末，把所有问题都一并解决。

I was like, I'm gonna be the the magic magic powder that's gonna solve all the problems.

但我很清楚，这家俱乐部身上有种特别的东西。

But I really knew that this club had something special.

对我来说，加入这里就像能参与一场即将重焕光彩的复兴。

And for me to join it was was like, I can be part of something that is gonna become great again.

我到现在还是这么相信。

And I still believe that.

当然，这需要时间。

And, obviously, it can take time.

花的时间比我想象的还要长。

It's taking more time than I thought.

是的。

Yes.

当然。

Of course.

但那时候我脑子里想得太多，这些梦想现在还在，我想实现的东西也还有很多。

But at that time, I had too many dreams in my head, and they still are here and still a lot of things that I want to achieve.

但那个2020年来到这里的我，笑容没变，想在这支球队赢球、成功的那份心也没变。

But this smile and this guy that came here in 2020 is is still is still is still the same guy that wants to to win and succeed at this club.

我在想，

I'm wondering,

你知道吗，多年来关于曼联内部环境的讨论实在太多了。

you know, because there's been so much said about the environment at Manchester United over the years.

我多少了解一点弗格森爵士在的时候的情况，因为我采访过很多他的球员。

I I know a little bit about the environment when sir Alex Ferguson was here because I interviewed a lot of his players.

我以前去过卡林顿，实地参观过训练场，还坐在贵宾休息室里，女服务员过来跟我聊起弗格森爵士当年的事，说他记得每个人的名字，后来这一切都变了。

And having been to Carrington before and actually going to the grounds and actually sitting in the hospitality lounge and waitresses coming over to me and talking about when sir Alex Ferguson was here and how he knew everyone's name and then how it changed.

听到这些反馈让我特别有感触，原来文化中的小事竟能产生这么大的影响，甚至直接关系到球员的踢球方式。

I it was really interesting to me to get a lot of this feedback because it highlighted how small things in culture can have a big impact right down to the the way players play.

加里·内维尔曾经给我讲过一个关于温迪和她的慈善晚宴的故事。

And there's always a story that Gary Neville told me about with Wendy and her charity balls.

他说，球员们经过温迪身边时，她会请他们为当地慈善活动签名。

He told me a story of the players walking past Wendy who got the charity ball signed for a local charity.

有一天，有几个人没签。

And one day, a couple of them didn't sign it.

弗格森爵士下楼后，直接把他们骂了个狗血淋头。

And Sir Alex Ferguson came downstairs and he, quote, fucking killed us.

这种事看起来有点奇怪，居然对文化里的小细节这么较真。

And it's it's a strange thing to do, like, to care that much about a small detail in culture.

但加里告诉我，他后来慢慢明白了，为什么弗格森爵士会这么在意这些事。

But over time, Gary told me he's he understands why sir Alex Ferguson cared so much.

所以我想问你的是，关于这家俱乐部文化上的变化，球迷们最想知道的是，从你2018年来到这里到现在，到底有哪些不一样了，感觉上有什么改变。

So my question to you is really about the cultural evolution at this club and what the fans are desperate to know about, like, how it's changed and how it feels different from the time you arrived in 2018 up until today.

我把自己从小被教育的方式、我的行为习惯都带到了这里。

I've brought in my behavior, my the way I've been raised and all these things.

我觉得每个球员都会把各自不同的东西带到俱乐部来。

And I think every different player has brought different things to to the club.

但我觉得有一件事必须始终存在，那就是对人的尊重。

But I think one of the things that has to be always there is the respect for people.

对我来说，这是绝对不能妥协的原则。

And I think that says, for me, is a nonnegotiable thing.

如果任何球员来到这家俱乐部，却不尊重队医、工作人员、安保人员、各个办公室的同事、餐厅里的员工、厨师，以及所有默默照顾我们的人——哪怕你没注意到他们，或者没放在心上——

Like, if any player comes to this club and he doesn't respect the physios, the peep the stewards, the people that are in all the desks we have here, the people that work for us in the restaurant, the chefs, and all these people that are around us taking care of us, even if you don't see it, or if you don't think it or whatever it is.

对我来说，尊重必须始终存在，这是铁律。

For me, it's a non negotiable thing that the respect has to be always there.

光有尊重还不够，还得有关怀。

And more than respect, the care.

你得真心关心他们。

You need to care about them.

因为如果你的俱乐部有坚实的基础——尊重和关怀，一切都会变得更好。

Because if you have a good foundation, a good base of respect and and care in in your club, it's gonna get better.

氛围也会随之改善。

The environment gets better.

所有事情都会变得更积极。

Everything is more positive.

我觉得，这大概是我从小被教育的方式。

Because I think and and this is probably the way I've been raised.

我对每个人都一视同仁。

I treat everyone in the same way.

我不会对球员和对保洁阿姨、前台人员、入口处的工作人员区别对待。

I don't treat the players in a way that I don't treat the clean lady or the people that are in the front desk or the people that the stewards at the entrance.

你明白吧？

You know?

如果我跟这些人问早安，我也会跟那些人问早安。

If I say good morning to these ones, say good morning to these ones.

我不会因为谁而改变这一点。

I don't change that.

如果我跟这些人握手，我也会跟那些人握手。

If I give a handshake to these ones, I give a handshake to these ones.

当我像对待队友一样问候他们时，他们会觉得自己是团队的一分子。

If I greet them as I'm greeting my teammates, they will feel part of it.

他们会觉得自己被纳入其中。

They will feel involved.

他们会觉得自己跟其他人一样重要，尽管他们的职责跟别人完全不同——毕竟CEO的职责是一回事。

They will feel as important as them, even knowing that the role of them is completely different of the other ones because the role of a CEO is one thing.

但如果保洁人员没把地方打扫干净，没把一切收拾妥当，你马上就能感觉到不对劲。

But if the cleaner doesn't clean everything nice and leaves everything prepared and well well done and everything, you will notice that something is wrong.

你会觉得，这地方根本不值得你来工作。

You will notice that this is not the place where you want to work for.

你有没有意识到，你根本不想成为一家到处都是垃圾的公司的CEO？

You do you notice that you don't wanna be the CEO of a company that has trash everywhere.

对。

Yeah.

那为什么不去问候那些默默维护着你环境、让这里看起来井井有条、给来访者留下好印象的人呢？

And so we why wouldn't you greet the person that takes care of you, takes care of your place to look so good, and to make an impact when people come in from the outside?

这让我想起乔尼·艾维说过的一句话。

It reminds me of something actually Johnny Ive said.

乔尼·艾维是那位设计了所有我们熟知并喜爱的苹果产品的著名设计师。

So Johnny Ive is the famous Apple designer that designed all the Apple products that we know and love.

他说，要感受到用心很难。

And he said, it's very hard to feel care.

但他也说，每个人都能察觉到别人是否不在意。

He goes, but everyone can feel when someone didn't care.

你去一家餐厅，就能立刻感觉到他们根本不上心。

You go to a restaurant and they didn't care.

都是些小事。

Small things.

他说，关心就像一种背景中的感觉，你一到某个地方就能隐隐约约地感受到。

He goes it's like he said, care is just this thing in the background, this ambient feeling you have when you arrive somewhere.

但你又说不清具体是哪儿不一样，就是能感觉到。

But you can't you can't, like, point out exactly what it is, but you can feel it.

没错，就是这样。

That's the thing.

更准确地说，你是能感受到，但看不见它。

Think it's more that you feel it, but you don't see it.

说到这点，我刚才在想清洁工的事。

And I think touching this point up, I was I was talking about cleaners.

我妈妈以前是给人做家政的。

My mom was a she was cleaning houses for work.

所以我从不希望那些雇清洁工的人对妈妈态度不好，或者轻视她做的工作。

So I never wanted the people that were cleaning the house to treat my mom badly or let's say downgrade the work she's doing for them.

比如现在，我家请了一个人帮忙做家务。

Because for example now I have a person that works in my house.

我绝不允许孩子对她说话不客气。

I don't allow my kids to talk badly to her.

我也不允许孩子命令她：‘去把这个拿过来，放好。’

I don't allow my kids to say, grab that and put it in place.

她第一天来上班，我就跟她说过了：如果东西没放对位置，你当然要收拾干净。

And I said that to her in the first day she came to work and I said, if something is not in the in the right place, obviously, I want you to clean.

该归位的东西，你尽管放好。

I want you to put things in place.

这些我全都要。

I want all of this.

但我绝不允许孩子对你指手画脚，说‘把这个摆好’‘那个放那儿’。

But I don't want my kids to tell you, oh, that arrange that or put this in place.

不行。

No.

如果他们想要什么，可以自己问你。

If they want something, they can ask you.

但首先，他们得有礼貌。

But first of all, they need to be respectful.

如果他们不会做，就得来问你，但必须用尊重的语气。

If they can't make it, they have to ask you, but in the respect way.

但如果事情是他们能做的，你就得让他们自己去做。

But if it's something that they can make, you have to make them make it.

不能说：‘你来弄吧。’

Not like, oh, you do it.

不，你得告诉他们怎么做。

No, just explain them how to do it.

示范给他们看，让他们从中学会。

Show them the way so they learn with it.

我对待身边工作人员的方式，大概就是这么来的，因为我从小就受不了看我妈受委屈。

And this probably the way I behave with the people that work with me, it comes a lot because of my background, of not liking to see my mom.

因为我不在那些家里，很明显。

Because I was not in the houses, obviously.

我不确定他们有没有好好对待她。

I don't know if they treated well or not.

我妈妈从来没跟我提过，她服务过的任何人对她不好或者欺负她。

My mom never said to me that any of the people that she worked for were bad bad to her or treat her in in a bad way.

所以我真的觉得，正因为我不希望妈妈受这样的对待，我也不会这样对待别人。

So I really think that that made me understand that because I I don't want that for my mom, I won't make that to other people.

我从小就是曼联球迷。

I've been a Man United fan since I was a kid.

所以我的兄弟姐妹都是在曼彻斯特出生的。

So, like, my siblings were born in Manchester.

我之前跟你说过，我出生在非洲的博茨瓦纳。

I was saying to you before I was born in in Botswana in Africa.

但因为我有两个哥哥都是曼联球迷，我很快就成了曼联的铁杆粉丝。

But because I've got two older brothers who are Man United fans, I very quickly became a Manchester United fan.

我记得那时候才三四岁。

I remember, like, three, four years old.

等我一满十八岁，我就从西南搬到了曼彻斯特，住下来，去看我的第一场曼联比赛。

And then as soon as I could when I was 18, I moved up from the Southwest to Manchester at 18 years old, and I lived here and went to my first Manchester United games.

我亲眼见证了俱乐部从弗格森爵士时代，经历过渡期，一路走到今天。

I've seen the club go on this incredible journey from, you know, Sir Alex Ferguson's era to this sort of period of transition to where we are now.

依我观察，实事求是地说，弗格森离开后，俱乐部在引援和文化建设上犯了不少错误。

And it's my observation, my honest observation, that after in the post Fergie era, the club made some bad decisions as it relates to recruitment and culture.

很多人总提起爱德华·伍兹。

People often talk about Edward Woods.

我可不是想故意为难你。

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try and stitch you up in any way.

你愿意聊什么，我都听你说。

I'll get you to talk about anything particular.

我只是说说我的看法。

I'm just expressing my opinion.

他们总说爱德华·伍兹签球员的策略有点儿太随意了。

They talk about Edward Woods' strategy towards signing players and it being a bit flippant.

再看看我们当年那批球员。

And then you look at the the sort of group of lads that we had.

作为曼联球迷，坐在看台上，我感觉球队的文化挺混乱的，跟现在完全不一样，现在大家对价值观都有很明确的共识。

And just as a United fan watching on the pitch, I felt the culture was a bit confused because it didn't seem like it seems now where it seems like there's this really strong central agreement around the values.

那时候感觉我们签人，是因为他们名气大、来头响，而不是因为他们真的适合球队。

It felt a bit, I don't know, a bit like we had signed players because they were famous or big, but not because they fit.

现在回头看这支球队，我觉得这些球员才真正契合。

And I feel when I look at the club now, I go, oh, these guys kinda fit.

负责引援的人现在开始真正考虑球员的品格了。

And whoever's doing recruiting is thinking about character.

我觉得过去几年，俱乐部一直在清理那些不合拍的球员类型。

It feels to me like there's been this process over the last couple of years of getting rid of the wrong character profiles.

阿马林就特别说到过这一点。

And I think how Amarin really spoke to this.

他特别提到，把那些性格不合拍的球员都清理掉了。

He really talked about getting rid of the players that didn't have the right character profile.

再补充一点，我接触过俱乐部不少现任和前任球员，他们也都跟我提到过，过去确实存在性格匹配的问题，但现在这个问题已经解决了。

Just to add one more line to this, I've spoken to a lot of players at the club in past and present, and they expressed the same to me as well, that there was an issue with sort of character profile that has now been solved for.

我觉得俱乐部多年来最大的问题在于，换了一个教练就换一套风格，每个教练都截然不同。

I think the main mistake that the club has done through the years that we've changed manager to manager, they were very different.

这本身就已经是个危险信号了，不是说引援本身有问题，而是你总在招那些只适合前任教练的球员。

And that's already a bad sign, not of recruitment, because then you bring in players that fit that manager.

对。

Mhmm.

结果下一任教练上任，踢法完全不一样，你之前买的三四个甚至五个人，全都不适用了。

But the next one you brought plays a completely different way, and the three or four or five that you bought don't fit this one anymore.

然后你就得再买四五个新球员。

And then you have to buy another four or five.

对。

Mhmm.

俱乐部战术不断变动，或者我们想踢的方式总在改，这其实不太妥当，结果就是球员根本适应不了。

And then the constantly change of strategy in in in the club or in the way we wanted to play or whatsoever was not was not the best because then, obviously, it becomes that the players don't suit anymore.

问题不在于球员的性格，而在于体系本身。

The system is not even more the character than it comes up, but it's more the system.

当然，我们也可以谈性格，有些球员确实不太适合俱乐部，但不真正带进俱乐部，你永远看不出来。

Then, obviously, we can talk about character that players that were certain players that were not a perfect fit for the club, but you never know it until you bring it to the club.

有时候，其实还是能看出来的。

I think sometimes you can see it.

我觉得有些球员，光看他们在球场上的表现，或者社交媒体上的言行，就能判断他们是不是适合这个俱乐部。

And I think is there players that I think the club by the behavior they have on the pitch or the behavior they have on on social media whatsoever, you can see if they will be a fit for the club or not.

正如你所说，俱乐部最要紧的是引进品行好的球员，因为这才是打造优秀团队的关键。

And I think the main thing for the club, as you said there, you need to bring good characters because that will be more important to build something that good qualities.

至于技术能力，大家其实都有。

Because good qualities, they all they will have.

你不会把一个没能力的球员带到曼联。

You don't bring a player to Man United that doesn't have qualities.

但如果能把能力跟人品结合起来，那就是双赢了。

But if you can add the qualities to the character, that's a win win.

因为能力总有起伏，球员总会经历状态好的时候，也会有状态差的时候。

Because the qualities will be moments that the quality won't be as good as you want because players go through periods that sometimes they play very good, sometimes they play very bad.

但人品是不会变的。

But the character remains the same.

你希望看到的是，当球员状态低谷时，他依然有正确的态度，能激励自己重回巅峰，或者至少能带动队友保持高水平。

And that's the character you want where they are on a low to be the right character to push himself to be on a high, or at the same time when they are on the low, to be the right character to push the other ones to be at at the top level.

我认为俱乐部在引援时最该做的，就是找那些真心想为曼联效力的人，而不是仅仅因为曼联名气大才来。

And I think that's the main thing that the club has to do in terms of recruitment and everything is bringing people, first of all, that want to be a Man United to play for Man United, not to be a Man United just because it's a big club.

他们想来这里，是因为他们认同这间俱乐部，真正理解自己想在这里取得成功。

They want to be here because this is the club they think and they really understand that they want to succeed with this club.

他们希望带曼联重回我们曾经熟悉的那些辉煌岁月。

They want to bring this club back to the days we were used to see Man United.

我知道已经过去十二三年了，我清楚，但我们希望这段低谷期越短越好，早日回到那个赢得过20个英超冠军、拥有最多球迷的曼联。

I know it's been twelve, thirteen years, I know, but we want that to get as short as possible to become that club that won 20 Premier League titles and is joined the most in the Premier League.

对。

Mhmm.

在足球俱乐部里，品格比技术更重要。

So character in a football club is more important than the quality.

因为技术总能拿到，而且还能提升。

Because the quality, you're always gonna get it, and you can improve it.

我听帕特里斯·埃弗拉说过这样的话。

This is what I heard from Patrice Evra.

我记得他告诉我，他曾在法国的一个机场遇见弗格森爵士。

I remember him telling me that he met Sir Alex Ferguson in in an airport, I think, in France.

弗格森爵士把他叫到一旁问：你愿意为曼联付出生命吗？

And Sir Alex Ferguson sat him down and said, are you willing to die for Manchester United?

他回答：愿意。

And he said, yes.

然后弗格森就和他握了手。

And so he shook his hand.

他说：欢迎加入曼联。

He said, welcome to Manchester United.

这是一种完全不同的选人方式。

And that's a different way of recruiting.

他不是在测试你球踢得怎么样。

He's not testing if he can kick a ball well.

他是在看你有没有那份决心和心态——我觉得弗格森和以前那批曼联人最看重的就是这个。

He's testing if he's got the heart and that mentality that I think Fergie and previous sort of cohorts of Manchester United really, really cared about.

我觉得弗格森当然也犯过选人错误，毕竟不是每个球员都出色。

I think Sir Alex obviously, he's done mistakes in recruitment too because, obviously, not every player was great.

但他总能在任何时候、任何情况下引进球员。

But he always brings players in any time, in any moment.

这些人最终都能融入俱乐部。

They would fit the club.

这大概才是选人最关键的地方。虽然这事轮不到我来插嘴，但我还是想说一句。

And that's the main thing, I think, in terms of recruitment that but this is like something that is not for me to get involved, but I will say it.

我明白俱乐部总会换教练，踢法也会变，但引援必须由俱乐部主导，因为球员通常签五年合同，而教练只有两年。

I understand the club has different manager comes in in comes in and different ways of playing and whatsoever, but the recruitment has to be from United because the player will get normally a five years contract, and the manager will get two.

你知道，如果情况不对劲，俱乐部总是先换教练，再考虑换球员，因为后者要难得多。

And you know that if it's not something is not working, the club always gets rid of the manager first, then he gets rid of the player because it's much more difficult.

所以你得先引进适合俱乐部的球员，再找能匹配这些球员和俱乐部风格的教练。

So I think you always have to bring players that fit the club, and then you bring managers that fit the club and the players you've got.

对。

Mhmm.

我觉得这正是像瓜迪奥拉这样的教练能成功的关键所在。

And I think that says to be the the the the thing that for example, let's talk about Club and Pep.

他们为什么能这么成功？

Why they were so successful?

因为他们和俱乐部一起挑选球员，确保这些人能融入球队、体系和打法。

Because they chose the players in together with the club that will fit the club, the system, and the way they wanted to play.

当然，这些年我也犯过不少错误。

And through the years, I've had that mistakes, of course.

他们买过那些没奏效的球员吗？

Have they bought players that didn't work?

有啊。

Yes.

我觉得成功的比没成功的要多得多。

I think we're more the ones that worked than the ones that didn't.

那些没成功的球员，我也没见过几个出来抱怨俱乐部或者教练的。

And the ones that didn't work, I haven't seen many of them coming out and talking bad about the club or about the manager whatsoever.

是的。

Yeah.

很难想象，俱乐部花五千万、六千万、七千万买下你，结果你以为自己肯定能上场，可到了那儿却根本没机会踢。

It's difficult to be there and a club buy you for $50.60, 70,000,000, and then you don't play when you thought, oh, oh, I'm gonna play because they're paying this amount of money for me.

我本来以为自己肯定能踢的。

I'm gonna play.

结果到了之后，却一直坐板凳。

Then you get there, don't play.

当然，这确实不容易。

Of course, it's difficult.

但我看到的是，俱乐部在组建阵容时，已经足够强大，能够包容那些没上场、状态不佳的球员。

But what I've seen is that they built in a way that the squad was strong enough to take care of those players that were not playing and that were struggling.

我注意到的一个变化，尤其是这个赛季，是社交媒体上的各种干扰——球员不上场，他们兄弟姐妹就在Instagram故事里发帖，说什么‘我兄弟该上场’之类的。

One of the things I've noticed as a change, especially this season, is all this social media distraction, people posting on their Instagram stories when they don't play, their brother's sister posting, my brother should be playing whatever.

过去几年有些球员做的那些社交媒体上的事，最近好像都消失了。

All of this sort of, like, social media stuff that some players were doing over the last couple of years seems to have vanished.

这其实挺有意思的，我们常讲，一些小事往往是重要的信号。

And this is just an interesting you know, we talk about small things being interesting signals.

这是我今年特别注意到的一点。

It's one of the things I've noticed this year.

现在根本看不到那些社交媒体上的乱七八糟的东西了。

There isn't social media nonsense going on.

所以我想问，这是俱乐部有意做的吗？

How like, I guess my question is, is that something the club has done?

是俱乐部特意找你们谈话，要求停止这些社交媒体行为，还是说这只是因为选对了人之后自然发生的变化？

Has there been have they sat you down and said stop the social media stuff, or is it just a consequence of getting the right people together?

我觉得两者都有，但同时，俱乐部必须在球员面前站稳立场。

I think it's a little bit both, but at the same time, I think the club has to be the one being strong with the players.

一旦发现有什么不对劲，或者看到某些行为对球员、对球队、对俱乐部的声誉有负面影响，俱乐部就该主动跟球员、经纪人、家人沟通，任何可能发声的人，都要及时介入。

When they see something that is not right or they don't like it or is not good on the players, on on the team, on the attention this club gets, I think the the club needs to talk with them and with the agents, with the families, whatsoever that speaks out and says something.

因为球员也有责任让家人和身边的人明白，他们发出去的每一句话、每一条动态，都可能影响到我们的职业生涯。

Because I think it's also on the players to make the families and everyone that is behind them understand that what they put out or what they say can have consequences on our careers.

你会跟球员聊这个话题吗？

Do you do you talk to the players about this?

如果我看到有什么我不满意的内容，比如他们发帖或者回复别人，我从很小的时候就告诉父母、哥哥、姐姐，你们没经过我同意，别随便说话。

If if if I see something that I don't like or if I see them posting or replying to some people on social whatsoever because, for example, from such a young age, I said to my parents, I said to my brother, I said to my sister, I don't want you talking without my like, without me knowing it.

不是因为他们不会说话，而是他们根本意识不到哪些话可能带来麻烦。

Not because they don't know how to talk or whatever, but they're not aware what can be bad or wrong.

他们可能觉得发点什么是在帮我，但万一影响到别人，我就不能允许这种事发生。

They might think they will say something that is going be good for me, but maybe as repercussions on other people, and I don't want them to do that.

我打球的时候，我爸妈从不说话，我哥哥也不说，我妹妹也不说。

So my parents never spoke, my brother never spoke, my sister never spoke when I wasn't playing.

让别人去吵，让他们说吧，管他们讲什么。

Let people make noise, let people talk, Doesn't matter what they say.

就拿我妈妈来说，她真的为此特别难受。

I know for my mom, for example, she suffers a lot with this.

我说，你得学会忍着。

I say, take it in.

别放在心上。

Don't care.

就像你平时为我祈祷那样，去向你的圣人祈求吧。

Pray at your saints like you do to me all the time.

确保他们为我做对的事，这才是最重要的。

And and make sure they do the right thing for me because that's that's what matters.

她后来也就慢慢接受了这种做法。

And she she comes kind of like it's okay with that.

我当然知道，我哥哥或妹妹说话的时候，多半是想回应什么。

Obviously, I know that probably when my brother says something or my sister, they want to reply to something.

他们想说那不是真的。

They want to say it's not true.

你干嘛提这个？

Why why are you talking about this?

我哥哥他……我不希望他们卷入这事，因为对他们没好处。

My my brother was I don't want them to get involved in that because it's not gonna be good for them.

对我自己也没好处。

It's not gonna be good for me.

对我的环境也没好处。

And it's not gonna be good for my environment.

我不希望这样。

And I don't want that.

但我认为，这是因为当初我在家里态度特别坚定。

But I think that is because I was strong with my family in the in the first moment.

我觉得我就得是这样的人。

And I think that's what I have to have to be.

我从不回家跟家人聊什么‘这个经理’‘那个经理’的。

I don't go home to my family and saying like, you know, this manager this, this manager that.

我可能会说我喜欢什么、不喜欢什么，但绝不会到处去宣扬，比如‘因为我做了这个，所以得让别人知道’——我才不在乎别人说什么‘布鲁诺练得真好’。

I might say what I like or I don't like, whatever, but I don't go in a way of like, if I had someone that could put something out because I've been doing this, I mean, I don't care, like, to people to put out, oh, Bruno's training so well.

布鲁诺在做这个。

Bruno is doing this.

布鲁诺在做那个。

Bruno is doing that.

我知道我自己在做什么。

I know I'm doing it.

对我来说，这就够了。

That's enough for me.

而且

And

确实，你一路经历了奥利、卡里克、拉夫、埃里克、鲁本、弗莱彻，然后又是卡里克这么多次过渡。

it's true because, you know, you've been through this this process of transition with Ollie, Carrick, then Raff, then Eric, then Ruben, then Fletcher, then Carrick again.

最让人佩服的是，我从来没觉得你对教练们的态度有过变化。

And actually, of the remarkable things is I've never noticed your attitude towards the managers be any different.

我真的看不出来。

I can't tell.

我真的看不出来。

I can't tell.

据我所知，你一直支持每一位教练。

As far as I'm aware, you support them all.

我觉得这才对，就应该这样。

And that's how it should be, I think.

要是你有意见，作为球员，你该直接去跟他们说，但没必要让我们外人知道。

If you've got a problem, I think as, you know, player, you should go tell them, but we shouldn't know.

你懂的。

You know?

而且，我们确实不清楚。

And well, we don't know.

对你来说，我不确定你心里是怎么想他们的。

With you, I don't know what you think of them.

我同意这个说法。

I agree with that.

首先，每个来执教的教练我都喜欢，因为能从他们身上学到东西。

First of all, I like every manager that comes in my way because I learn with them.

每位教练都有自己的想法、自己的战术风格，他们希望我做这个、那个、又一个不同的事。

And every manager that comes in as their own idea, as their own thinking, as their own way of playing, and they want me to do one thing, the other one, another thing, the other one, another thing.

对我来说这很好，因为他们相信我能做以前没做过的事。

And for me, that's good because they believe that I'm capable of doing different things that I was doing before.

我不会给教练们任何空间去想：‘也许我不该让布鲁诺上场。’

So what I won't give to the managers is the choice or the option in their head to think I'm not gonna play Bruno.

不过，当你对某件事不满意的时候，你会怎么做？

What do you do when you're not happy about something, though?

作为队长，你会去找他们聊聊吗？

As the captain, do you go have a chat with them?

不会。

No.

他们让我做什么，我就做什么。

I do whatever they want me to do.

如果他们觉得对球队最好，我就照做。

If they think it's the best thing for the team, I'm gonna do it.

不管我同不同意，信不信，我都会百分百配合他们的安排。

Either I agree or not, believe it more or not, I make myself available for what they want to do 100%.

最后效果好不好，那是他们决定的，要不要调整也由他们说了算。

If then it works or not, that's on them to decide to decide that if it needs to be changed or not.

我不会去跟教练说，要换阵型或者改打法。

I'm not gonna go to the manager and ask them to change formation the way they play.

如果他们问我，我会说出我的看法。

If they ask me, I give my opinion.

如果他们不问我，我就不多说。

If they don't ask me, I don't say anything.

你从这六位主教练身上，学到了什么是一个好教练，以及如何当好一个教练？

What have you learned about what a good manager does and how to be a good manager from the six managers you've had?

对我来说，这么多年来，我总听人说，某些球员得用不同的方式对待。

For me, look, through my career, I've always heard that, you know, like, certain players should be treated in a different way than other players.

我不认同这种说法。

I don't believe in that.

这就像做生意一样。

It's like the same as having a business.

你请某个人来，是因为你相信他最适合做那件事。

You buy certain people to do certain things because you believe they the right person to do that.

所以，我不觉得因此就要改变对他们的态度。

So I don't think that you then should change the way you behave with them.

你可能需要换种方式去和他们沟通。

You should probably approach them in different ways.

我相信这一点，因为我跟你是不一样的。

I believe in that because I'm not the same as you.

对。

Yeah.

那你在场上对球员们也区别对待吗？

So do you treat players differently on the pitch?

因为你知道，你平时老是对队友大喊大叫的。

Because you're you you know, you shout at lots of your teammates.

有没有哪些人你不会怎么吼的？

Are there some that you won't shout at as much?

我对所有人都一视同仁，我觉得他们慢慢也明白我为什么这么做了。

I I treat all of them the same, and I think they're kind of getting to know exactly why I do it.

我们平时训练的所有内容，都是有依据的。

Everything that we train in the imagine, let's see.

这一周我们练的东西，之前都看过相关视频了。

During the week, we train this, and we have seen images of this.

我们知道该怎么做。

We know what we have to do.

教练们都会为我们做好这方面的准备。

The managers prepare for that us for that.

至少我要求做到这一点。

I demand that at least.

不管你是谁，我都一视同仁。

I don't I don't care who you are.

我们已经整整一周在为这场比赛做训练准备了。

We've been a full week preparing the training, the game for this.

这件事我们必须掌握怎么做。

This we need to know how to do it.

至于你能不能传好球、进个球或者抢断成功，那就是另一回事了。

Then if you can make a pass or you can make a goal or you can make a tackle, that's different.

这些才是我从每个人身上需要看到的个人能力。

That's the qualities I need from each one individually.

但我学会了用不同的方式跟他们沟通，目标却始终如一。

But I've learned to talk with them in different ways, but with the same end result.

我不会因为一个人胆小就不敢跟他说话，又因为另一个年轻就冲他大喊大叫。

Not like I won't like go to one and say like being scared of saying things to him and the other one like because he's younger whatsoever I'm gonna like shout at him whatsoever.

如果我得冲这个人吼，我就冲这个人吼。

If I have to shout at this one, I will shout this one.

如果我得冲这个人喊，我也会冲这个人喊。

If I have to shout at this one, I'll shout this one.

如果我得表扬这个人，我会用同样的方式去表扬那个人。

If I have to praise this one, I'll praise this one the same way I praise this one.

我想从我的采访里大家也能看出来，我从不害怕表达真实想法。

And I think that you can see in my interviews, I'm not afraid of saying what I feel.

同时，我也从不吝啬对球员的表扬，哪怕他们当时的表现还没达到该被表扬的程度。

At the same time, I'm not afraid of praising players for what they have done or what they're doing, even if they probably in the moment, they they haven't done as much as they needed to get the praise.

对。

Mhmm.

但对我来说，我觉得他需要这样的肯定，才能突破到下一个层次。

But for me, I think he needs that praise to get into the next level.

所以我会给他一些鼓励，但同时也会让他清楚自己的责任。

So I'm gonna give him something, but I make him aware.

我给了你肯定，但我也期待你做得更多。

I've gave you something, but I'm expecting something more from you.

就像我爸爸当年对我说的：你得再好一点，得再努力一点，因为他知道我有能力做得更好。

It's like my dad giving me, like, you need to be better, you need to do more because he knows I'm capable of more.

所以我对球员们也有同样的要求。

And this is why I demand from the players.

我要求严格，是因为我真的相信他们。

I demand I'm I'm I'm very strong on them because I I really believe in them.

我早就对很多球员说过这样的话。

I have said this so many times to so many different players.

你记住，等哪天我不再跟你说话、不再对你大喊大叫的时候，那说明我已经不相信你了，也不觉得你还能进步了。

It's like, trust me, the day I stop talking to you, the day I start shouting I stop shouting at you is because I don't believe in you anymore, and I don't believe you can improve anymore.

你在曼联的经历就像过山车一样，起起落落，一波三折。

Your time at Manchester United's been a bit of a roller coaster like this, kinda like up and down and up and down.

你曾经排第二，接着又跌到联赛下游。

You went second, and then you drop down the league your second.

过去两年就是最好的例子：一度快垫底，今年又回升到第三名。

And, I mean, the last two years have been a prime example of that, finishing near the near the bottom end of the table and then this year back up to third.

作为球迷，我很好奇，当球队状态差、网上到处传教练要下课的时候，这会影响更衣室吗？

I'm wondering, as a fan, when things get bad and you hear all these sort of rumors breaking online that the manager's gonna be sacked, does that impact the dressing room?

你们经历过这么多次教练被换，知道情况不妙的时候，那种感觉到底是怎样的？

Like, do you guys in the dressing room because you've been through it so many times where a manager has been removed, do how what's that like when you know things are going bad?

不会。

No.

首先，我们最在意的是教练的感受，毕竟有些球员上场多，感受自然更深一些。

First of all, feel it for the manager is is the first thing because I think, obviously, certain players will feel it more than others because it's their players that play more than others.

那些平时上场少的球员，其实也不希望看到教练离开。

And they obviously the ones that probably don't play, they don't like to see managers going.

但与此同时，如果来了新教练，这对球员来说反而是个新机会，可能比以前更容易获得上场时间。

But at the same time, if a new manager comes in, it's a new opportunity for them to probably get into the team more times than we're getting before.

对。

Mhmm.

我觉得在体育界最难受的就是换帅，等于一切又要从零开始。

And I think going through the process of changing money is probably the worst thing in in in sports because it's starting from zero again.

不管信不信，当你经历了一整个过程，你总希望看到终点，明白这段经历给你带来了什么，以及你还能和这支队伍、这个教练一起走得更远。

And either either people believe it or not, when you're through a process, you want to get to the end of the process and understanding what's what that has gave to you as a player and what you can do more with that staff, with that team, and with that manager to go even further more.

你为什么没有放弃希望呢？

Why didn't you lose hope?

因为你一次次从零开始，慢慢进步，教练走了，又回到零，再进步，教练又走了，再从零开始。

Because you went through that process of starting from zero, making progress, manager goes, back to zero, making progress, manager goes, back to zero.

你知道为什么吗？

You know why?

因为每次我和迪奥戈聊这个，一到季前训练，就感觉是全新的开始，总有一种感觉：这次真的不一样了，这次就是机会。

Because every time I've spoke this with Diogo before, every time you come for preseason, it's like a new start, and you always get that belief of, like, this is gonna be the this is gonna be the time.

这次真的会不一样。

This is gonna be the time.

赛季里总有些时刻，你会突然觉得事情怎么都不顺。

It's moments through the season that you just you you get this belief that things are not going well.

但我最坚定的，是对自己有信心。

But the main thing I have is belief in myself.

所以我一直相信，只要我做事对头，带动大家也做对的事，帮团队一起朝着正确方向走，我们依然有机会争取到想要的位置。

So I always think if I do things right and I take people to do things right and I help them to do things right as a team, we still have a chance of pushing ourselves into positions we want to be.

这个赛季就是这样，我们当然很艰难，但换教练不是因为成绩——那时候我们离第二名只差两分，离第一名也只差五分。

And this let's say this season has been that case because we we struggle obviously, we didn't change manager because of results because we were two points behind second place and, like, five points behind first place.

从第三名到第七名，大家的积分都咬得特别紧，差不多是平分的状态。

We were same points till I think from third to seventh place was everyone with the same points, something like that.

我们就卡在那个位置上。

So we were we were there.

但俱乐部内部可能觉得彼此的信任出了问题，所以他们决定重新开始。

Was something different with this with the club that they felt that the the trust between them was was broke or whatsoever, and they kind of decided to start a new process.

这对我们来说很糟糕，因为鲁本来的时候，俱乐部传达的信息是：这是一个重建的过程，但我们会挺过去。

And that was bad because for us, when Ruben came, what was passed from the club is like, this is gonna be a process, but we're gonna go through this.

无论顺境逆境，我们都要一起面对，一起熬过去。

Gonna be good in bad times, but we're gonna go through this.

显然，后来俱乐部觉得是时候分道扬镳了，于是你跟着迈克尔从零开始。

Obviously, then the club decided that it was time to part ways, and you started from zero for from with Michael.

但后来你们取得了成绩，一路坚持到赛季结束，最终拿到了第三名。

But then you've got results, and you went to the end of the season, and you finished third.

从迈克尔在任到赛季结束，再到如今，我们应该是积分最多的球队。

And you finished what doing probably in the time Michael was here till the end of the season till till now is we probably the team that has made more points.

迈克尔带来了什么改变？

What did Michael change?

我觉得一开始，迈克尔主要想给球队带来稳定。大家都明白，中途接手后，你得先让球员心态平稳，才能恢复到他认为我们应有的水平。

I think in in the first moment, what what what Michael tried to do is, like, to give stability to the team because as everyone understands, when you come in after a break, you understand that you need to give stability and peace of mind to the players to get back to the level he thought we could have.

他带来了这家俱乐部一直以来的根基和传统，从他球员时代到执教时期，然后他就离开了。

And he brought the foundation and the base that has been in this club, from the time he played till the time he managed, and then he left.

所以他非常了解这家俱乐部。

So he knows he knows the club.

他知道俱乐部希望怎么踢球，也知道球迷想看到什么。

He knows how the club wants to play, and he knows what the fans want to see.

他有什么不同之处？

How is he different?

从战术上或者性格上来说，迈克尔作为教练带来了什么？

Like, what's what tactically or from a character perspective, what does Michael bring as a manager?

就在刚才，刚宣布他将成为曼联的主教练，这真是个好消息。

I know as, you know, just an hour ago or so, it was announced that he's gonna be the Manchester United manager going forward, which is great news.

但如果要你向我描述一下，作为领导者和教练，他到底有什么特别的地方？

But what what is if you had to describe him to me as a leader and a manager, what how is he different?

我觉得他特别让人安心，无论是他对球队的要求，还是他的执教方式，都让人感到沉稳。

I think he's a very he gives you a lot of calmness, you know, in terms of what he wants from the team, the way he demands, the way he coaches.

他让你带着平静的心态去比赛，但同时又充满责任感。

He gives you he gives you a good way of going to the game with with a good peace of mind, but with a lot of responsibility.

因为从他跟弗格森爵士在一起的时候，他就很信任球员，让球员在场上自己做决定、自己拿主意。

Because I think from the time he was here with Sir Alex, he gave a lot of responsibility to the players to make decisions and to make choices on the pitch that have to be on you.

他给你打下基础。

He gives you the base.

他给你奠定根基。

He gives you the foundation.

他定下一些不可动摇的规则。

He gives you certain rules that is like the non negotiable ones.

但他也知道，比赛过程中情况会变——你虽然提前一周准备，但对方可能临时换打法。

But then he also knows and he wants us to take some responsibility through the game that things might change because you prepare a game full week, obviously, but then the team could come and do a different thing.

比如你准备对付四三三，因为他们一直用四三三，结果对方一上来就改打三五二。

Like, you prepare to play against the four three three because they always played four three three, and then they come and they play three five two.

这时候，教练就在场边喊你：现在该压哪里，该往哪跑。

And then you go like, oh, and now the manager come come be on the sideline telling you where to press, where to go.

所以作为球员，你得有基础、有根基，也得清楚那些不能碰的底线。

So as a as a players have the foundation, have the base, have the rules nonnegotiables.

从那以后，我们就得想办法，比如说，好吧。

And from there on, we need to find a way of, like, okay.

假设我们没法逼抢了，因为他们全变了，我们准备的逼抢策略根本不管用。

Let's imagine we can't press because they've changed everything and the press we prepared was not was not the one we needed.

那就收缩防线。

Let's get compact.

大家靠紧点。

Let's get together.

别让他们冲进我们的防线。

They don't get into our block.

我们拿球的时候，就稳稳地控球。

When we have the ball, we play with the ball.

等我们有球的时候，教练会及时给我们指示，告诉我们该怎么做，根据场上情况调整策略，好减轻压力、争取更好结果。

We get into the off time and then the manager will give us the message that he wants to give or whatever he has seen that we need to do differently in a way of getting a better result from the from the pressure.

我觉得他给我们的那种沉着冷静，还有赛前准备的方式，真的特别棒。

And I think that's what he gave to us, the calmness and the way he prepares games was very good.

但当事情没按我们想的那样发展时，他会把责任交给球员，让你们自己去解决、去调整。

But when things were not going in the way we wanted, he gave responsibility to the players to, like, make it work, then we solve it.

就是给点空间，让你们自己发挥。

So, like, a bit of freedom to

这不算真正的自由，自由是另一回事。

It's not exactly freedom because freedom is a different thing.

意思是拿球时你可以自己做决定，因为他强调：拿球时的责任在你身上。

It's like it gives you freedom with the ball to make decisions because he says, that's your responsibility on the ball.

我没法告诉你该传给谁。

I can't tell you where to pass the ball.

我也不能告诉你该往哪儿射门。

I can't tell you where to shoot.

我只能帮你判断空间会在哪里出现。

I can help you where the space is gonna be.

我觉得对球员来说，最重要的是能预判空间在哪里。

And I think that the most important thing for a player is knowing where space is gonna be.

你得知道空当在哪，才能利用好那些位置。

You need to know where spaces are to then play with it.

你知道那边有大片空档，我们可以从那里打穿他们。

You know that they have big gaps there that we can hurt them from there.

迈克尔一直跟球队强调这个理念。

And this is the message that Michael has passed to the team.

如果我们从这边进攻，他们那边的人就少了。

It's like, if we attack from here, they have less people on this side.

我们可以从这边多派人压进禁区。

We can bring more people in the box from this side.

我们得做好快速反抢，因为他们有两个前锋，后防线必须有三个人。

We want a very good counter press because they have two strikers, so we need to have three people in in the back.

两个人盯人，剩下一个人拖后保护。

Two of them mark, one of them stays behind.

这些细节，都是他打基础时教给我们的。

So this is the small things in the foundation that he gives to us.

但他经常说，我没法告诉你该传到哪里。

But then he says many times, I can't tell you where to pass.

我也没法告诉你该往哪儿射门。

I can't tell you where to shoot.

我会给你提供解决方案，但你不一定能正好用上。

I give you the solutions, but might not be there.

所以你得自己找到合适的传球、射门和决策，因为那一刻我没法在你脑子里替你做决定。

So you have to find a way of making the good pass, the good shot, the good decision, because I'm not gonna be in your head in that moment.

我留在你们脑子里的，是我之前给你的那些想法。

My in their head, gonna be the ideas I gave you.

其中一些会很管用。

And some of them will be good.

但也有一些行不通。

Some of them won't won't work out.

所以你要学会分辨哪些是我给的好主意，那些不奏效的，你得自己想办法调整。

So you have to make a way of, like, understand the good ones I gave you, and the other ones that are not working well, you need to find a way of make it work.

所以他是更倾向于给你一些原则，而不是具体的比赛指令和该怎么做？

So it's more just he gives you the principles instead of specific instructions on how to play and what to do?

他确实会给你一些指导，但剩下的就要靠你在比赛中自己去权衡和把握了。

It kind of gives you, but then it lets you balance through the game.

明白了。

Okay.

也就是说，他让球员自己去阅读比赛。毕竟九十分钟里情况瞬息万变，不可能每件事都跟视频里演示的一模一样。

It lets let's say, it lets the players read the game because in ninety minutes, many things happen, and not gonna always happen what you see in the video.

希望是这样，但也不总是如此。

Hopefully, yes, but not always.

比如，假设我们有机会面对诺丁汉森林，我把球传给了布莱恩，他进球了。

For example, let's say we had the chance against Nottingham Forest that I passed the ball to Brian and he scores.

我们也看到维拉对森林队有过同样的机会。

We have seen the same chance from Villa against Forest.

完全一样的机会，同样的跑位，同样的传球，我们都看到了。

The exact same chance, exact same movements, exact same passes, and we've seen that.

我们脑子里会想象出那个画面。

We visualize that.

所以这招才管用，因为我们早就有这些想法了。

And that's why that works because we had the ideas.

我们知道这事能成，结果还真做到了。

We knew we could make that happen, and we made it.

他会生气吗？

Does he get angry?

因为他看起来特别沉稳。

Because he seems like such a calm guy.

你看他参加新闻发布会的时候，总是特别平静，你知道的。

When you see him in press conferences, he's very calm and very, you know

是的。

Yeah.

他确实有那么一两次急了，但平时说话一直都很冷静。

He did he did he did caught hungry one once or twice, but he's very calm in the way he speaks.

但我认为，每个人都会有生气的时候。

But I think I think everyone gets angry anyway.

但他给人的感觉特别沉稳，说话很有分寸，懂得什么时候该说什么话。

But he's a very calm presence and he's he's he's someone that speaks very well, knows the timing, the words, he knows what to say.

每当他需要更强势一点的时候，比如在我们最需要他发力的时候，他就会那样做。

And whenever he got when he let's get let's say, more aggressive within us was was the time that we needed to to get that from him.

你的打球方式很有意思，我回顾过你很多年的言论，也结合我对商业的理解，你是个比大多数人更敢冒险的人。

And the way that you play is interesting because it when I was looking at a bunch of your quotes over time, but also how I think about business, you are a player that takes more risks than most people.

我们经常谈创业中的失败，说要想取得更好的结果，就得提高失败的频率。

And we talk a lot about failure in business and how you have to increase your rate of failure to to to get better outcomes.

但你从来不怕冒险。

But you're a player that is not shy of taking a risk.

你的打法是，有时候会丢球，但正如我们今年和很多年前看到的那样，你创造的机会往往比场上其他任何人都多。

And you play in a way where you you sometimes lose the ball, but you also, as we've seen this year and in many other years, you often are generating more opportunities than any other player on the pitch.

你是怎么看待这一点的？

How do you think about this?

因为你踢球的方式，难免会犯很多错误。

Because the way you play means that sometimes you're gonna make a lot of mistakes.

你丢球的次数肯定比其他球员多。

You're gonna lose the ball more so than other players.

甚至比我们以前的一些中场球员，比如卡里克，还要多。他通常会选择更稳妥的传球，而不是冒险从狭窄的缝隙中穿插。

I'd argue even more so than some of the previous midfielders we've had, like Carrick, who would often choose a more safe option than trying to play it through a thin gap.

你对风险是怎么看的？

What's your attitude towards risk?

我觉得这始终是风险和回报的问题。

I think it's always risk reward.

你明白吗？

You know?

你得清楚，这个风险能换来多大的回报，值不值得为球队去冒这个险。

You you need to understand how much reward you're gonna get from that, and if taking that risk is good for the team or not.

就我这个位置来说，这种精神是必须的。

Let's say the position I play, you need that.

冒险必须是你的一项核心技能，去做比赛需要你做的事，确保前场的队友能在更有利的位置拿到球，这样他们进球的成功率就会更高。

It has to be one of your main skills to take risks, to do things that the game demands from you and to make sure that your team teammates in the front get the ball in the positions there's gonna be the rate of success for them to score a goal is gonna be higher.

我可能会失误两三次，但只要有一次成功，就能为我们打进一球。

I might miss two or three times, but if I get one right, that can become a goal for us.

我觉得再没有比这种能转化为进球的冒险更值得的了。

And I think there's nothing better than a risk reward that is a goal.

所以我认为，当你踢前腰这个位置时，显然你是不希望丢球的。

So I think when you play as a number 10 position, obviously, you don't want to lose the ball.

你只需要尽量把失误降到最低。

You just you have to make that as less as possible.

但在某些位置上，丢球次数确实会比别人多。

But in certain positions, you lose the ball more often than others.

边锋在一对一的情况下，丢球肯定比中场多。

Wingers will lose the more the ball on one v ones than midfielders do.

边后卫传中的次数通常也会比中后卫多。

Fullbacks will do normally more crosses than center backs will do.

六号位球员的抢断次数会比前锋多。

Number sixes will make more tackles than a striker will do.

所以球队里需要这种平衡。

So it's a balance in the team that you need to have.

假设我跟科比和卡萨特搭档过。

Let's imagine, I played with Kobe and Cassatt.

他们不是那种喜欢冒险的球员。

They're not a risk player.

如果我尝试四次冒险传球，他们每人各一次，那就是一场比赛六次。

So if I take four times, let's say, risky pass and they take one each, that's six times a game.

所以这四次得由我来承担。

So I need to be the one that takes four.

他们每人一次就够了，因为他们的职责是负责组织进攻、推动球队前进，把球送到那些需要冒险的球员脚下。

They need to be the ones that take one one each because the responsibility they have in the team is the one that they make the team play from the build up, push the team forward to then get the ball into the players that have to take the risks.

对。

Mhmm.

因为如果你没有愿意冒险的球员，球队就会陷入僵局。

Because if you don't have the players that take the risks, you're gonna end up bubbling.

比如说，我们聊聊曼城队。

And we talk like, for example, let's say Man City.

那支队伍讲究瓜迪奥拉那种传控打法，所有这些理念。

There is a team that's that's I'd Guardiola, Tititaca, all these things.

德布劳内就是那个经常冒险出球的球员。

De Bruin was the player that take the risks.

对。

Mhmm.

现在轮到谢罗当那个敢冒险的球员了。

Cherokee is now the player that take the risks.

菲利普斯、多库、马雷斯这些人才是那些在一对一中敢于突破的人。

Phil Folden, Doku, Mares will be the ones that taking the risks on a one v one.

教练有没有跟你说过，让你少冒点险？

Has the manager ever told you to take less risks?

埃里克让我少射门。

Eric told me to take less shots.

少射门。

Less shots.

从禁区外射门。

From the outside of the box.

他给我看了一块板子，上面有我射门的命中率、偏出率和进球数。

He showed me a a board with my success rating of shots on target, shots off target, and goals.

他还给我看了我表现最好的位置。

Showed me the positions where I was more effective.

他说，我觉得你应该多往这些位置跑，再选择射门。

And he told me, I think you need to get more into these positions to then make a shot.

哪些位置？

Into what positions?

比如靠近禁区的位置，就是我们常说的禁区附近。

Let's say close to the box, like in in the position, we will see the box.

你会说，比如往左边靠一点，你进球更多。

And you would say, like, more towards left hand side, you score more goals.

往右边靠一点，你射门的准头更好。

More towards the right hand side, you're you aim more the goal.

往禁区边缘正中间的位置，你射偏的次数就更多。

Towards the middle of the of of the of the edge of the box, you miss more shots.

所以他建议我，多往左边或右边活动，或者靠近球门，或者拉远距离。

So he was like, get more into the left side or get more into the right side or close range, long range.

但归根结底还是风险和回报的问题，毕竟有时候你真能从25码外打进一记精彩进球。

So, but then obviously is is is we come back to the risk and reward because sometimes obviously you're going to score a great goal from 25 yards out.

但这种事你能碰到几次？

But how many times you're going to do it?

五次里能进一个，就已经算很多了。

Out of five, you maybe score one, and it's a lot already.

所以我得让风险越来越小，比如从18码左右起脚，这时候进球的概率可能达到五分之三，因为我离球门更近了。

So I need to make that risk become less and less and less, getting more risk probably from 18 yards because there the possibility of me scoring a goal, it might be three in five because I'm much more closer.

我可以给球加更多力量。

I can put more power on the ball.

我可以变得高效得多。

I can be much more effective.

过去十年我一直在创办和投资公司，很多时候，关于营销预算的讨论都遵循同样的模式。

I've spent the last decade building and investing in companies, and so often the conversation around marketing budgets follows the exact same pattern.

预算虽然批了，但效果却迟迟看不到。

The budget gets approved, but then the results don't come back.

大多数时候，创意方案和促销内容都没问题。

And most of the time, the creative pitch and the offer is fine.

问题出在目标受众上。

The problem lies with the audience.

广告推给了根本不会购买、不会推荐，也没有决策权的人。

Ads reach people who will never buy or refer, nor do they have the power to sign off anything at all.

这就是为什么那么多预算都被浪费了。

And this is why so much budget gets wasted.

LinkedIn广告，也就是本节目的赞助商，可以根据职位、职级、公司规模、行业、技能等多种条件精准定位目标人群。

LinkedIn ads, who are sponsor of this podcast, lets you reach them specifically by job title, seniority, company size, industry, the skills that they have, and much more.

你再也不用指望广告刚好撞上对的人了。

You're no longer hoping your ad reaches the right person.

现在你可以明确指定谁能看到你的广告。

Instead, you're defining exactly who sees it.

LinkedIn广告在所有主流广告平台中，B2B广告的投资回报率最高。

And LinkedIn Ads drives the highest B2B return on ad spend across all major ad networks.

去 linkedin.com/diary 试试看吧。

Give them a try at linkedin.com/diary.

如果你在首期广告中投入250美元，只要通过 linkedin.com/diary 注册，下一阶段就能获得250美元的返现。

And if you spend $250 on your first campaign, you'll get a $250 credit for your next one just by going to linkedin.com/diary.

这事别对外说。

Keep this to yourself.

具体条款请参见官网。

Terms and conditions apply.

我从来没想过，有一天我的桌上会出现一把红色灯光的牙刷。

Of all the things I thought would ever turn up on my desk, a red light toothbrush was not one of them.

这就是它了。

Here we are.

这是我们的赞助商Bon Charge做的，你可能早就听说过他们的红光面罩和红外线桑拿毯，因为我一直都在用，以前在这档播客里也聊过。

This is made by our sponsor Bon Charge, and you'll probably know of their red light face mask and their infrared sauna blanket because I use them religiously, and I've spoken about them on this podcast before.

不过他们的牙刷，我还是第一次接触。

But their toothbrush is new to me.

几周前我拿到了这个，从那以后我就天天用，因为我真的很喜欢他们的产品。

I was someone of these a few weeks ago, and ever since then, I've been using it religiously because I love their products.

这是第一款把红光和近红外光跟声波清洁功能结合在一起的牙刷。

And this is the first toothbrush that combines both red light and near infrared light with sonic cleaning at the same time.

之前用在护肤和消炎上的红光技术，现在被装进了一件你再熟悉不过的日常用品里。

The same red light technology that's used for skin and inflammation is now built into a device you already know so well.

我现在每天至少用它刷两次牙。

And I'm using it at least two times a day at the moment to clean my teeth.

对牙龈特别好，能促进牙龈血液循环，还能缓解疼痛。

It's great for your gums, for stimulating gum circulation, and for soreness.

最棒的是，它根本不用额外增加你的日常步骤。

And the best part is it's not an extra thing to add to your routine.

直接替换成你现在的牙刷就行。

It just replaces your current toothbrush.

如果你试试看，在 boncharge.com/doac 能享受八折优惠，还包邮，再送一年保修。

If you give it a try, you'll get 20% off at boncharge.com/doac, and also you'll get free shipping and a one year warranty.

就是 boncharge.com/doac。

That's boncharge.com/doac.

你以前带过不少教练，他们总让你去打不同的位置。

You've had lots of managers, so they've all asked you of different to be you know, play in different positions.

但在这片场地上，你最喜欢踢哪个位置？

But on on this pitch here, where is it that you you like to play the most?

我觉得我最能发挥优势的位置是这个区域。

I think the positions where I can be more effective is this square, let's say.

是的

Yeah.

我这么说吧

I would say let's put it like this.

好的

Okay.

对

Yeah.

不对

No.

只需要一个方块区域

Just need a square.

哦，你只需要一个方块区域

Oh, you just need a square.

咱们想象一下，我们在进攻这个轮胎

This is let's say, imagine we're attacking this tire.

我觉得在这些位置上，我能在这份事业中发挥得更好。

This this is the spaces where I think I can be more effective in this career.

不同的教练让你踢不同的位置，因为……

And different managers asked you to play in different positions Because, within

比如说，跟鲁本一起踢的时候，他常用三中卫，一边翼卫，两个中场，另一边翼卫，一个前锋，还有两个前腰。

for example, let's say, let's put here, With Ruben, he used to play three at the back, one wing back, two midfielders, another wing back, and a striker, and two tens.

鲁本刚来的时候，我经常踢这个位置，还有这两个位置。

With Ruben, I played a lot of times here in this position when he first came and he wanted me and in this position, these two.

他更常让我担其中一个角色，去帮那两个中场组织进攻，把球往前送，让那个前锋能站到对方防线身后，再把球传给这两个前腰。

More than often he wanted me to be one of these two to help here, to help these two midfielders to build up and to get this guy higher in a position when he can be in the last line and to get the ball into these two.

那你觉得这个位置该叫什么？

So what position would you call that?

是左边卫吗？

Like left?

如果这是左边，那他希望我更多地踢左中场，先帮球队在中场稳住阵脚。

If this was the left then, let's say, but he wanted me to play more like as a left midfielder to help them to like, first of all, to have more stability in the middle.

其次，要敢于向前传球，把球推进出去。

Second, to get the ball going forward, take the risk of passing the ball forward.

然后我经常在这个位置踢。

Then I played a lot of times here.

我们会给你穿上蓝色球衣，虽然有点遗憾，但这样我们才能分清你是谁。

What we're gonna do is we're gonna make you unfortunately, we're gonna make you blue just so we can see which one you are.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Okay.

在这种情况下，我经常站在这里，你让我在这儿，因为对方三个人压上来逼抢。

So in this one, when I played here many times, you wanted me here because they were pressing, let's say three against three.

他希望我上前去制造人数优势。

And he wanted me to come and do the overload.

我们多一个人，可以更好地组织进攻。

We have one more player to build up.

所以他们会把这个区域稍微拉得更开，让这边更具进攻性。

So they will open up this one a little bit more, get this one more offensive.

通常都是卢克·肖担任边后卫，他习惯在这个区域活动，这样我们就能向前推进，对方那三个压上来的球员根本没法有效逼抢，因为我们总能有这个接应点来过渡球。

Normally it was Luke Shaw and as a full back he was used to play in this space and so then we could drive the ball and they couldn't press with the three they had, they wouldn't be able to press because we always had this one also to bounce the ball.

每当我们带球向前推进时，他都希望我站在这里。

Then whenever we go up the pitch with the ball, he wanted me here.

鲁本确实这么要求过。

Ruben did.

对，他希望我踢得更靠前一些，成为三个十号位之一，组成三名十号位的连线。

Yeah, wanted me to play more, a little bit more higher to be one of the three tenths and make this line of three tenths.

比如和奥莱一起踢的时候，我们用的是4-2-3-1，我担任十号位，你就希望我这么做。

Then for example with Olleh I was playing four, two, three, one and I will be the number 10 and you wanted me to do this.

我没法横移过去。

I can't go across.

有时候你希望我这么做，接球到这个位置或者那个位置，然后送出长传，把球转移到边锋那边。

And sometimes you wanted me to do this and get the ball here or here to make the long passes and to make the switches to the wingers.