第10集：多姆的日记——心理健康、成瘾与退出创业

这也是我一直好奇的。

That's what I always wondered.

你有没有意识到，还是说这完全是种无意识的行为？

Did you realize did or was it a very sort of unconscious thing?

完全是无意识的。

It was it was totally unconscious.

就像我说的，一开始是庆祝，一切都从庆祝开始。

Like I say, it's that everything for like, it started off as a celebration.

你知道，我们每个周末都会去社区，庆祝一下，喝个四五杯，等我喝多了就什么都不管了。

You know, we'd go out, we go to the neighborhood every weekend, we celebrate and like buy like drink four, drink five when I'm when I'm gone.

你根本不会意识到什么，因为你什么都不想。

You don't realize anything because you don't think anything.

对。

Yeah.

然后，当大家都在庆祝的时候，我记得社区开业，我们一起去，有我、你、亚历克斯，还有楼上的人。

And then I just when everyone else was celebrating, I remember the neighborhood opening, we went with me, you, Alex, someone else upstairs.

当时其他人都在庆祝街区开业，但我感觉压力巨大，好像快要崩溃了，脑子里全是各种念头。

And I just, you know, it's everyone else was celebrating neighborhood opening, but I've got this pressure of like crumbling on me like, oh, god, I'm thinking about everything.

我其实人不在那儿。

I'm not I'm not there.

我没有真正投入到当下的时刻和大家在一起。

I'm not actually there in the moment with you guys.

我只是坐在那儿喝酒，喝得很快，让自己慢慢变得麻木。

I'm just sat there drinking my drink, drinking it quickly, getting this feeling of going a little bit numb, making myself going numb.

我就是想离所有人远一点。

And just I wanted to get away from everyone.

我不是想避开某个特定的人，比如同事什么的，我就是单纯想躲清静。

I didn't want to get away from from from anyone in particular, at work, I just wanted to get away.

我想自己一个人待着。

I wanted to go off by myself.

我想待在自己那一小块天地里，因为

I wanted to be in my own little space because

你有没有想过放弃？

Did you ever think about quitting?

我考虑过把店盘出去。

I thought about selling.

我想卖掉它。你知道的，刚开始有人来问价的时候，我还挺有压力的。结果大家都不感兴趣，当然最后也没谈成。

I want to sell, you know, when the offer started, this is a strain when the offer started to come in, and people weren't interested to buy, of course, was turned.

我就想，行吧，看来咱们还是得卖。

And I was like, alright, you know, this we could we should sell.

那时候有人想收购，我其实挺乐意的，因为那对我来说是个出路。

And I was I know I was very pro of selling to some people that came in in the early days because it was a way out.

我就想，要是能卖掉一部分股份，拿到点保障，让自己心里踏实下来，那我就能好好调整自己了。

And I was like, okay, you know what, if I get the security of selling some, you know, the shares, and then I'm alright, I can sort myself out.

我觉得那样就算完成了一件事，心里有个底。只要能把这事儿办成，我就能把自己理顺了。

I feel like I've completed something and kind of the back of mind and you, you know, if we could do that, I I could then sort myself out.

然后你会怎么做呢？

And what would you do?

你会怎么做？你当时有什么计划，亨利？

What would you what would you what was your plan, Henry?

我没什么计划，因为我就知道自己想要点什么。

I had I had no plan because I I just I just know I wanted something.

我当时在寻找自己内心的某种东西。我跟你说过无数次了，但一旦我戒了酒，现在每次我下车，我都不在乎了。

And I was like, I was seeking seeking something in myself like and when this is when I was drinking, I've I've said to you a million times, but once once I once I stopped drinking and now every single time I get off, I'm not don't care about it.

你知道，就在那一刻，我在寻找，我也不知道自己在找什么。

You know, it's in that moment there, and then I was seeking like I don't know what I was looking for.

就是在找点什么，就像当初哈特集团想收购我们的时候，我立刻就答应了，因为那意味着安全感。

Was just looking for something like the one when the Hutt Group wanted to buy us, I was, you know, I just snapped the hands off then because it would have meant security.

然后你就离开了那段相当有毒的关系。

And then so you get out of this fairly toxic relationship.

对。

Mhmm.

就像你提到的，那并不容易，对吧？

As you alluded to, wasn't it wasn't it didn't happen easily, did it?

我记得有天晚上你跟我说，你说，好，史蒂夫，我要走了。

I remember you telling me one night, said, right, Steve, I'm gonna go.

我要去见她，然后跟她分手。

I'm gonna go meet her, and I'm gonna go and end it.

然后你就去了，见了她。

And then you went, met her.

你出去了四五个小时。

You were out for four or five hours.

我在家坐着等你。

I sat home waiting.

你回来的时候，你们还在一起。

You came back and you were still in the relationship.

实际上，她成功让你相信问题出在你身上，而且你的职业太自私了，她才是受害者。

In fact, she managed to convince you that you were the problem and that in fact, your career was so selfish that she was the victim.

所以你回来的时候特别难过，觉得自己因为这份职业伤害了她。

And so you came back really upset about what you had done to her by having this career.

而且我觉得，对我来说，这又是一个迹象，说明你并没有真正掌控局面。

And I think again, that for me, was just another sign that you weren't really in control of the situation.

我确实没有掌控好自己的情绪。

I wasn't in control of my own emotions.

我也没有掌控好这段关系。

I wasn't in control of the relationship.

我知道这听起来很傻，但我真的很讨厌那个人。

And I'm I know it sounds stupid, but I like I hate that person.

我现在在别人身上还能看到他的影子。

I see I see him now in other people.

而且我喝醉了的时候，

And I Drunked on.

就会对那种类型的人特别上头，你懂的，即使清醒的时候，在他有对象的时候也是。

Drunked on that type of that guy, you know, so even in sober when he was in relationship.

我就看着他，心想，你怎么会喜欢那种人？

And I just look at him think how how how you like that one?

很明显你处在一段糟糕的关系里。

Does it's so obvious you're in a bad relationship.

很明显你有问题。

It's so obvious you've got a problem.

因为我自己经历过，所以当然看得出来。

And because I've been through that, obviously.

但现在看得很清楚，可当时你被各种事情蒙蔽了，根本分不清对错。

But it's it's so obvious obvious to see now, but at the time, you're just so gazed with everything that you just you don't know that you're right from wrong.

脑子里全是各种声音。

You've got all these voices in your head.

你都不知道自己怎么了。

You don't know what's going on with you.

你对什么都不满意。

You're not you're not happy with anything.

你对自己也不满意。

You're not happy with yourself.

你对这段感情也不满意。

You're not happy with your relationship.

没有人，真的没有人让你感觉好一点。

No one's, like, no one's like making you feel good.

你给自己施加了太多压力，你知道，那时候必须得有所改变了。

You've put in so much pressure on yourself and, you know, something's got to change at that point.

而且因为你当时处于那种状态，被这些外部的事情困扰着，我现在听你说这些，很明显，很清楚，这就是你那段感情失控的原因。

And you because you were in that state where you were struggling with these external things, I just from hearing you now, it's evident, it's sort of clear that that's why you lost control of that romantic relationship.

对。

Yeah.

就是说，你几乎对那个人百依百顺，而她天生就有点爱操控人。

In the sense that you would you were almost quite submissive to this person and she was quite naturally a bit of a manipulator.

所以我记得你终于和她分手后的第二天，她给你打电话说，如果你现在不离开工作来找我，我就开车撞车。

So I remember the day after you'd, I think, finally broken up with her and she calls you on the phone and she says, If you don't leave work right now and come and see me, I'm gonna crash my car.

她当时正在高速公路上开车。

She's driving on the motorway.

然后她尖叫起来。

And then she screams.

她尖叫着挂断电话，假装自己出车祸了。

She screams and she hangs up the phone to make it seem like she crashed.

对。

Yep.

显然，你对此非常难过，任何人都会这样，因为你相信这个人。

And obviously, you're very upset by that, as everybody would be because you, you know, you believe this person.

但她其实是在利用这个无法控制自己的人，而且她知道这一点。

But she was really playing to this guy that wasn't in control of himself and she knew that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以那天我们做的事，显然我已经把她禁止进入所有地方了。

And she so she and then so what we did that day, obviously, I'd already banned her from everywhere.

她被禁止进入房子。

She was banned from the house.

她被禁止进入办公室，因为，你知道，我就是觉得她是个坏影响。

Was banned from the office because, you know, I just thought she was a bad influence.

我一直觉得很内疚。

I always felt really guilty.

说实话。

I'll be honest.

我一直觉得很内疚，因为你知道，我有点控制狂。

I always felt really guilty because I'm a bit of a control freak as you'll know.

比如我在很多事情上都很控制。

Like I'm very controlling when it comes to a lot of things.

而且我一直很担心我在控制你。

And I I was always really worried that I was controlling you.

我在控制你。

That I was controlling you.

有时候就是这种感觉。

That's how it felt sometimes.

我感觉我就像是在想，这难道只是我在控制Dom吗？

I felt like I was I'm like, is this just me controlling Dom?

不是。

No.

你知道吗，因为当我第一次见到她的时候，我们本来会住在Lisa那层楼的。

Do you know because when I when we when I first met her, we will have stayed on Lisa's floor.

对。

Yeah.

所以我就想，我遇到了一个女孩。

So I was like, I've met a girl.

她住在曼彻斯特，我可以住在她家，你知道，我可以有个落脚点。

She lives in Manchester, I can stay at her house, you know, I can, like, get a bit of a base.

然后我就想，这听起来是个好主意，你知道，不像Lisa那样。

And I was like, this sounds like a good idea, you know, not like Lisa's

所以背景是这样的，当Don遇到这个女孩的时候，我和Don基本上是无家可归的。

So for context, when we when Don met this girl, me and Don were basically homeless.

对。

Yeah.

从某种意义上说，我们已经搬出了原来的地方，正在找地方住。

And in a sense that we were we'd moved out of our place and we're looking for somewhere to live.

对。

Yeah.

所以……

So

对。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，我抓住了任何稳定的落脚点。

So and, you know, I latched I latched that I looked for any kind of like stable base.

然后我就觉得，我陷进去了。

And I was like, I fell into it.

我就想，这有个房子，可以住那儿。

I was like, this got a house, can stay there.

我可以做点什么，你知道吧？

I can I can do something, you know?

然后她……最后她让我给她打那些电话，就是威胁说要自杀那种。

And she so she she ended up making me she gave her those phone calls where she, you know, she threats to kill herself.

你肯定特别着急上火。

You obviously get very upset.

我们跟你说，听着，今天就去泰国，当场订了机票，当天就去了机场，直接飞走了。

We say to you, listen, go go to Thailand today, literally booked the flight, went to the airport that day, you just flew away.

你之前不是跟她一起去度假了吗？

Because you might have gone holiday with her, weren't you?

对，是的。

To Yeah.

去了非洲。

To Africa.

没错。

Yeah.

你就飞走了。

You flew away.

跟我说说你戒酒那天的事吧，是怎么发生的，或者是什么让你戒酒的？

Talk to me about the day that you quit alcohol and how that happened or what made you quit Yeah.

最后呢？

In the end?

我觉得我一直对自己是个危险，这个我能应付。

So I think I was always a danger for myself, which I could deal with.

我知道我撞破了头，有一晚弄伤了脚踝，我在伤害自己。

I knew I broke my head, damaged my ankle one night, and I was hurting myself.

你知道，我记得我的生日。

You know, I remember my birthday.

这就像我的生日出去玩了。

This is this is like my birthday went out.

我的生日是星期天，星期六就出去了。

My birthday was on Sunday went on right on the Saturday.

我整个星期天都待在一个电影放映室里，里面漆黑一片，没有灯光，就我一个人坐在黑暗里。

I spent the entire Sunday in a cinema room, which is pitch black, no lights, just there in the dark.

然后你们进来问我，要不要去镇上的酒吧和烧烤店。

And you guys came in and asked if I want to go to town for to bar and grill.

我说，不了，我待在这儿。

I said, no, I'll stay here.

从那一刻起，对我来说就像是一个转折点，我心里想，今天是我生日。

And that from that, for me was like a moment when I was like, it's my birthday.

而我却坐在这间黑屋子里，宿醉未醒，谁也没见。

And I'm just sat in this black room, hungover, not seeing anyone.

我当时就想，就是这个时候，我才真正开始思考，我到底在对自己做什么？

And I was like, that's when that's when I really start to think what the hell am I doing myself?

后来还发生了几件事，我仍然在伤害自己，但没有伤害别人。

And then a couple of incidents happened when I was still doing damage to myself, but I wasn't doing damage to people.

我想，你知道吗，只要不是太严重，应该没人会发现吧。

Thought, you know what, as long as it's not too bad, you know, no one's I don't think people catching on off.

当然，大家其实都知道。

Obviously, people knew.

然后说实话，我一开始碰了快克，你知道，那东西我沾上了。

And then I'll be honest, I had quick drugs first, you know, that I got that on my life.

我当时觉得，我不需要那个。

I like, I don't need that.

而且我以为那才是问题所在。

And I thought that was a problem.

什么毒品？

What drugs?

什么毒品？

What drugs?

可卡因。

Coke.

对。

Right.

就是吸可卡因，你懂的。

Doing Coke, you know.

我觉得那是个问题。

And I felt that was a problem.

我觉得那才是问题所在。

I felt that was the problem.

所以我就戒掉了。

So I got rid of that.

跟你说，我不需要那个。

Let you know, I'm not I don't need that.

那不是真正的我。

It's not me.

有一阵子，可能我脑子清醒了点，但我觉得其实没有。

For a bit of time, maybe it's my head I got better, but I don't think I did.

然后去了赛马场，那天喝了不少酒。

And then went to the races, alcohol foot fueled day.

大概早上八点回来的，那时候已经是中午了，我整个人都懵了，情绪也到了崩溃的边缘。

Got back about 08:00, middle of the day to pickling nose and on the edge.

我就直接冲进去，开始从别人桌上偷拿酒瓶，到处捣乱，还在团队面前冲着人大喊大叫。后来意识到自己被人赶出来了，我就走在街上，继续冲其他人吼，你知道的，心里一直在想：他们凭什么把我赶出来。

And I just went in there, started stealing bottles of wine off people's tables, generally just disruptive, shouting at people in front of some of the team, and then realized that got thrown out, started walking down the street, shouting again at other people, you know, just for how how can they throw me out.

然后，是的，我很后悔，这可能是我人生中最糟糕的时刻，我对一个我原本视为最亲密的朋友说了些话。

And then, yes, I regretfully, probably the worst moment of my life said things to someone who I probably considered to be one of my closest friends.

而且那个人还是团队里的同事，

And someone that works in the team,

我有个特别好的朋友，从第一天起就陪着我。

very good, very, very good friend of mine, who's been here since day one.

我非常在乎他。

I care about deeply.

那天早上醒来，我才意识到自己对他说了什么、态度有多差。其实他只是想帮我，想让我上床休息，送我回家。

And waking up that morning and finding out what I said to him and the manner in which I acted towards him and if he was only trying to help me, he was actually trying to get me to bed, take me home.

你对他说了什么呢？

What did you say to

对他说了什么？

him?

记不清了。

Can't remember.

你知道当时的话题是什么吗？

Did you know what what the topic was?

知道。

Yeah.

知道当时的话题是什么。

Know what the topic was.

对。

Yeah.

是关于他在团队里的表现吗？

Was it about his performance within the team?

是关于他在团队里的表现，以及别人对他的看法，我说了一些关于那些的话。

It was it was about his performance in the team and his perception from other people and me saying things about about that.

我回想那天跟他聊天的状态，当时我喝得烂醉。你知道的，就像Steve说的，那是‘醉酒的我’，不是平时的我。

I, on hearing the demeanor of the conversation I had with him, I drunk with completely drunk, know, this is like Steve said, this is drunk Dom, this isn't me.

我意识到自己伤害了别人。

I realized I'm hurting other people.

对。

Yeah.

所以从我个人的角度来看，因为那天晚上我也在外面，我和几个朋友出去吃了顿饭。

So just from my perspective, because I was I was also out and about that night, I just went for some dinner with some friends.

很明显，有两个不同的多姆。

And obviously there's two different Doms.

一个是工作中的多姆，他是个超级nice的人，团队里的开心果，沉着冷静，还很有幽默感。

There was the Dom in work, who was the super nice guy, team player, calm, collected, funny guy.

有时候，我也会拿他开玩笑。

At times, I'd say the butt of the joke as well.

对。

Yeah.

但最主要的原因，为什么你成为大家开玩笑的对象，甚至包括团队里的一些人，是因为另一个Dom。

But predominantly the reason why you're the butt of the joke amongst even some of the team was because of the other DOM.

而且显然，当你对自己不够自信的时候，你就会让自己成为笑柄。

And obviously, when you're less secure in yourself, you kind of make yourself the butt of the joke.

而且你当那个角色已经有一段时间了。

And you'd been that guy for a while.

然后还有另一个Dom，就是那个喝醉的Dom，因为事情失控得厉害，对现实中的Dom造成了伤害。

And then there was this other DOM, was the drunk DOM, which, because of how out of hand it was getting, was doing damage to real world Dom.

而我们在领导别人的时候面临的问题是，领导力是别人赋予的。

And the problem we have when we're trying to lead people is we need to like leadership is a given thing.

是别人给你的。

People give it to you.

如果他们因为你的行为——不管是在工作中还是工作外——而不尊重你，你就无法领导别人。

And if they don't respect you because of how you're acting, in work or out of work, you cannot lead people.

所以这就是问题所在。

And so this was the problem.

当时我在一家叫Sucana的餐厅吃饭，好像是曼彻斯特的一家店。然后我收到团队里发来的消息，Alex和Sam问我：'听着，Dom彻底失控了。'

And so I was at dinner Sucana, I think it's a restaurant in Manchester, and started getting texts from people in the team saying, was Alex and Sam that texted me saying, Listen, Dom's out of control.

反正就是各种事，他被Picolinos赶出来了，走在街上还对别人说了些不该说的话。

Da da da, he's been kicked out of picolinos, he's walking down the street, he's just said something to somebody.

我觉得那是我们第一次进行一场非常、非常不愉快的谈话。

And I think that was the first moment when we had a conversation, which was really, really not pleasant.

没有。

No,

不是。

no.

对。

Yeah.

我记得当时咱俩发短信，你喝得烂醉，但你说你想卖掉它。

I remember on texting you and you texting me saying that, you know, and you're you were absolutely wasted, but you were saying that you wanted to sell.

那一刻我真是震惊了，虽然当时我气得不行，心里想着去你的吧，随便你。

And I remember that moment thinking it was it hit me like a ton of bricks because although I was like I was so pissed off in the moment, I was like, fuck you, whatever.

我当时也觉得，这事儿挺严重的。

I was also like, that's pretty serious.

如果你连喝醉后的自己都觉得想离开，那就说明问题不小了。

If you're at the point where the even drunk version of you is like, it wants to wants out.

因为你就是这么表达的。

Because that's what you're saying.

你想退出。

You want it out.

我当时就想，这事儿挺严重的。

I was like, that's pretty fucking serious.

然后我就想退出，因为我真的应付不来。

Then I I wanted out because I I couldn't I didn't think I could deal with it.

你现在在心理健康和戒酒康复方面做了很多工作，进步也很大。

And what what are the you do so much now on things like mental health issues and your recovery from drinking too much, I guess, and the way you've progressed.

你之前有心理健康方面的问题吗？

What did you have mental health issues?

如果有的话，是什么问题呢？

And if you did, what were they?

因为我知道心理健康涵盖的范围很广。

Because I know mental health is a very broad thing.

不一定就是抑郁或焦虑那种。

Not necessarily depression or anxiety, what it is.

但心理健康，就我自己了解到的，范围真的很广，从强迫症到囤积癖都有。

But mental health, as I've come to understand through my own sort of education of it, is such a broad thing from, you know, OCD to hoarding.

那你觉得自己有过哪些心理健康问题呢？

Like, what what are the the mental health health issues you think you've had?

对。

Yeah.

我有过焦虑。

Had I had an anxiety.

那是我经历过的问题。

That was like what I had.

那是什么感觉？

What how does that what was what did that feel like?

想象一下

Imagine

想象你在跟自己说话，然后你把自己所有的事情都说没了。

imagine you've you've you're talking to yourself and you're talking yourself out of everything.

把自己所有的事情都说没了？

Talking yourself out of everything?

对。

Yeah.

你不喜欢，举个例子，因为我总在想自己是不是有焦虑症。

You you don't like, for a good example, so because I always wonder if I've got anxiety.

你有。

You have.

每个人都有。

Everyone has.

对。

Yeah.

每个人都会有，只是有时候会发作。

Everyone has, it flares up.

那我为什么让自己去管理它呢？

So why I let myself to manage it?

没错。

Right.

要留意自己感到焦虑的时刻，对吧。

To notice when you're having moments of being feeling anxious Right.

以及在这些时刻该怎么做。

And what to do in their moments.

而且要知道自己确实有焦虑，因为我以前从来不知道焦虑是什么。

And just to be aware that you you have it because I never knew anxiety was.

那它是什么感觉呢？

What what how does it feel?

是什么

What's the

感觉怎么样？

How does it feel?

就是心里压着事，你知道该找个人聊聊，但一直拖着，觉得时机不对。

So it's pressing on your mind, and you know, you need talk to someone about it, but you put it off because you don't think it's the right time.

对。

Mhmm.

你想换个环境再说。

You wanna get them a different situation.

对。

Mhmm.

比如，客户不付款这种情况。

Take for like example, like a client client not paying.

你会把这事憋在心里。

You'll hold that information to yourself.

对。

Mhmm.

自己试着解决。

Try and solve it yourself.

对。

Mhmm.

但不会让其他人掺和进来。

But you'll you'll not get anyone else involved.

你会把它锁在心里，直到事情发展到要么失控到必须找人帮忙，要么你已经解决了，它就这么过去了。对。

You'll lock it away until it's a point where either it's got so far out of hand that you need someone to come in to help you Mhmm.

或者你已经解决了，它就这么过去了。

Or you've solved it and it can go away.

但这是一种感觉吗？

Is it like a feeling though?

就是，就是，就是……

It's it's it's Is

是一种紧张的感觉，还是……

it a feeling like a nervousness or

对。

Yeah.

焦虑？

Anxiousness?

对。

Yeah.

就是那种感觉，你懂的。

It's You get it.

因为……

Because

有时候我脑子里有事，我会稍微把它放一放，然后就开始特别焦虑。

sometimes I get this real when I when I've got something on my mind, and I'm like, I've put I've compartmentalized it a little bit, and I start feeling like super anxious.

我觉得那几乎就像是我上台前的那种感觉。

I think like that's almost like a almost like a kind of almost the feeling like that I get just before I go up on stage.

我有一段时间在内心深处会有这种感觉。

I get that for a while in my in my like in my insights.

我也有过这种感觉。

So I had that.

这就是你得到的。

That's what you get.

但自然而然，我做的事情就是承担太多事情。

But nature naturally what I do is I take I take on too many things.

所以当你有这些

So when you've got these

你只是在增加

You're just adding to the

你只是在增加，而不是解决它。

You're adding to the you're not solving it.

而且，对我来说，在工作中一些小事产生了很大的不同，比如弄一个日历。

And like, some small things that made a big difference to me, at work was like, getting a calendar.

你知道吗，头两年我们连个日历都没有。

You know, we didn't have a calendar for the first two years.

我们就是瞎忙活。

We were just roping stuff.

弄个待办清单，学着怎么处理眼前的问题。

Getting a wonder list, you know, learning how to deal with the problems put in front of you.

小改变能带来大不同。

Small changes make such a big difference.

但关键是，当你感到焦虑的时候，要去解决它。

But look, the main thing was when you get that feeling of being anxious, solving it.

我每次因为一个问题感到焦虑，都会把它写下来。

And I had to write down like every single time I felt anxious over a problem.

然后写下我预想的结果会是什么。

And then say what I thought the outcome was going to be.

比如，如果有人要求加薪，而你不知道怎么回应，因为脑子里很焦虑，想着发薪日快到了。

So for example, if if someone someone asked for a pay rise and someone asked for a pay rise and you you didn't know you don't know how to react because it gets this anxious in your head because you're thinking about paydays coming up.

我们没有足够的钱来支付员工工资。

We haven't got enough money to pay people.

然后你开始想一大堆事情，甚至还没法回去跟他们说，我们现在的情况就是这样。

And you start thinking about a million things before you can even go back to them and say, this is where we're at.

然后它们就一层层堆叠起来，

And and they pile on top of each on top

互相叠加，然后

of each other and then

让所有事情都变得

Making all of them

对。

Yeah.

伟大或者什么的。

Greatness or whatever.

然后

And then

我当时在喝酒。

I was drinking.

我把那些事都忘了，

I was forgetting about them over

整个周末。

the weekend.

然后你清醒过来。

Then you sober up.

然后你清醒过来，

Then you sober up, you're

就像，靠，压力全压过来了。

like, fuck, it gets on top of you.

压得你喘不过气。

Got you.

所以对我来说挺有意思的。

So it's interesting for me.

而且那只是工作上的事，生活上也有事，你知道的，你看着自己，看看自己在社交中的样子，这挺奇怪的。

And that's just work things and there's life things as well, you know, you look at yourself, you look at how you in social so this is a weird one.

所以我会有轻微的社交焦虑，喝醉的时候会更明显。

So I get I get small doses like social anxiety where it comes out more when I'm drunk.

这就是为什么我会一个人走开，因为有时候我不知道在对话中该跟别人说什么。

That's why I go off by myself because sometimes I don't know what to say to people in conversation.

因为我觉得，脑子里有太多事情在转，有时候你就是一片空白。

Because I think because you've got everything running back in mind, sometimes you're just a blank person.

你人会在某些场合，但心不在焉，因为思绪已经飘走了。

You'll be there in certain situations, but you won't be there because your mind will be gone away.

你坐在那里，心里想，我不知道该跟别人说什么，因为脑子里有太多事情要想。

And you sat there and you're like, I don't know what to say to people because I've got these million things I'm thinking about.

所以我不想显得社交上很尴尬，我就干脆离开。

So I don't want to appear socially awkward, I'm just gonna leave.

所以你从来没有跟我聊过那种感觉？

So you never you never really spoke to me about that feeling?

对。

Yeah.

为什么？

Why?

我没跟任何人说过这事。

I don't speak to anyone about it.

我不是唯一一个跟人提过的人，我当时交往的那个男生也跟我聊过。

I'm not the only person I spoke to about it was the guy I was seeing.

我花了太多时间去弄懂自己。

I need I spent so long trying to understand myself.

但我还没完全搞明白。

I'm still not there.

其实没人能彻底看透自己。

No one ever gets there.

关键是要了解那些会触发你情绪的点，以及你自己的状态。

And it's like understanding the triggers you have, how you are.

你说“那个男的”的时候，是指你戒酒之后，去找了某个人寻求帮助之类的吗？

When you say when you say the guy you're saying, you mean, after you quit drinking, you went and sought help, etcetera, from somebody.

对。

Yeah.

所以……但你从来没有，从来没有。

So But but you never you never.

你感觉这些的时候，我一直就坐在你旁边。

I was sat next to you this whole time while you were feeling these things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

想想看，你为什么不直接转过头来跟我说，我就是这么感觉的。

Think about why didn't you just turn to me and say, this is how I'm feeling.

真的很难受，而且我，你知道的……

It's really tough and I'm, you know

我觉得，出于某种原因，很多男人都不愿意开口说。

I think it's for some reason a lot of guys don't speak.

就是那种觉得自己不够好的感觉。

Just that feeling feeling inadequate.

觉得自己应付不来。

Don't feel like you're up for it.

觉得自己能自己解决。

Feel like you can solve it yourself.

不需要别人帮忙，就是那种想法。

You don't need help, that that kind of whole thing.

你知道，我能挺过去的。

You know, I can get through this, you know.

示弱就是软弱的表现。

I'm not weak sign of showing weakness.

我觉得吧……

I think that

你是不是觉得我没有什么弱点？

Did you did you not think that I had any weaknesses?

那你觉得我当时是怎么处理这些事情的？

Or what is your perception of what how I was dealing with all these things?

我一直觉得他特别擅长把这些事抛到脑后，就当它们不存在。

I thought I always thought he was so good at, like, putting them to back your mind that they weren't there.

我也不太清楚。

And I don't I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得，我也不太确定。

I thought I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得我当时太沉浸在自己的问题里，光顾着担心那些事，都没注意到。你知道吗，你是第一个让我去跟他们谈谈的人。

I think I just so caught up in myself worried about them that I didn't you know, you were the first person to tell me to talk to them about it.

我甚至都没想过，也不知道应该去跟他们聊这件事。

I didn't even think I didn't even know I should talk to speak to them about it.

这真的很有意思。

That's really interesting.

我一直以为，就我这个人来说，我不需要帮助。

I thought I thought I thought my me as a person, have to to I didn't know I needed help.

是你告诉我，我需要帮助。

You told me I needed help.

好的。

Okay.

那我们就回到那天吧。

So let's go back to that day then.

所以第二天你喝得烂醉，醒来后发现搞砸了几件事，也伤了几段关系之类的。

So the day after you get very drunk, you wake up, you realize you've damaged a few things, a few relationships, etcetera.

我给你发了消息，说我们在办公室见。

I messaged you and I said, let's meet at the office.

我们确实在办公室见了面，进行了一次非常私密、坦诚的对话。我觉得那是我们第一次如此真诚地交流。

And we met at the office and we had a conversation, a very private, honest conversation in which we talked about, you know, we're very honest for the first time ever, I think.

我觉得那天唯一让我没对你造成的破坏发火的原因，是因为我一直觉得喝醉的汤姆总是给我留下一堆烂摊子要收拾。

I think the only thing that stopped me on that day being mad at the damage you did, because the way I always felt was like drunk Tom would create a mess for me to clear up.

对。

Yeah.

而那天唯一让我完全没生气的原因，就是你对自己的状况那么坦诚。

And the only thing that stopped me being mad on that day at all was just how honest you were about your situation.

那是第一次，真的是第一次你那么真实地坦白自己的感受。

It was the first time that was the first time where you were actually honest about how you're feeling.

当一个人告诉你他一直在挣扎，想要控制住局面，想要改变的时候，你没法对他发火。所以，从那时候起，你说我告诉你需要去看心理医生，其实我记不太清了。

And you can't be mad at somebody when they tell you that they've been, you know, struggling with some stuff and that they want to get a grip of it and that they want to, you know, so that was and and then from there, you know, you said I told you you needed to see a guy, I can't really remember that.

我当然没有逼你去看他。

I certainly didn't make you go and see him.

那全是你的功劳。

You get all the credit for that.

不，我觉得，就像我说的，第一次伤害到别人的时候，我想我能承受伤害自己。

No, I think, like I said, the first time I hurt someone else, I think I could deal with hurting myself.

但伤害别人，那不是我。

But hurting someone else that that's not me.

这跟我为人处世的原则完全不符。

And it's not complete contrast to who I am as a person.

我不会去伤害别人，你知道的，我不是那种人。

Don't I don't hurt people, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not that.

想到我竟然对别人造成了那样的伤害，我心里很不是滋味。

And I think that that bit on me knowing that I've done that damage to someone.

而且，第一次跟别人倾诉这件事，再加上最好的朋友告诉我你状态不对，这一切都发生在短短二十四小时内。

And alongside like actually speaking to someone about it for the first time, being told by my best friend that something's not right with you is like, that hits all in the space of twenty four hours.

你知道的，那是最低谷的时刻。那天那种低落的感觉，是我永远不想再经历的。我一直把那种感受当作动力，提醒自己绝不再回到那种境地。

And you know, you know, that's the lowest point and that that low point that day is like the day I never want I've kept using that feeling how I felt that day, as I'm never going back there.

我发誓再也不会有那样的感觉了。

I'm never feeling like that again.

还有啊，我一直想从你身上听到的是关于创业的内容，比如当老板、做CEO、掌控全局这些。在社交媒体、电影、杂志乃至整个文化中，这些角色都被美化得太厉害了。

And the thing, the thing that's I've always wanted to hear from you from is entrepreneurship and being, you know, let's use that fuller word, the boss and all these things and being, you know, the CEO and in charge is something that's glamorized on social media, in movies, in magazines, in culture in general.

大家总有一种执念，觉得当创业者就特别光鲜，好像开着私人飞机、玩着摩托艇，想要多少钱有多少钱，脸上永远挂着全世界最灿烂的笑容。

There's this obsession with, you know, being the entrepreneur and this, the association is that you're on private jets and you've got jet skis and all the money you want and the biggest smile in the world.

但其实还有另一面，没人会跟你讲这些。

But there's another story which nobody tells you about.

在你看来，那背后的真实情况是什么样的？

What is that other story from your perspective?

而那一面，其实才是更接近现实的样子。

And that other story is like almost the reality.

其实吧，你能看到项目成果，也能看到那些光鲜的部分，但你看不到背后为了达成目标所付出的实际努力。

It's almost, you know, you do see you do see the project, you do see that, but you don't see the actual work that goes into getting there.

我觉得创业者之所以表现得那么张扬，是因为他们在这一路走来中学到了东西。就像你说的，他们是通过经历磨难才变成了那种人。

And I think the reason that the entrepreneur is this flamboyant person is because what they learned through the journey, they learned to become like you say, you learn to become that type of person through going through hard times.

具体是哪些艰难时刻呢？

What are the hard times?

就是那些艰难的时刻啊。

Hard times.

你从哪里开始的？

Where'd you start?

艰难时期。

Hard times.

不断质疑自己做的事情是否正确。

Questioning whether this is like constantly questioning whether this is the right thing that you're doing.

你知道，我们多少次改变了业务方向？我们花了两三年才找到自己的定位。

Know, we how many times have we changed course of what who we are as a business, you know, it's taken us two or three years to find our identity.

你刚才提到的艰难时期之一，我想补充的是，责任最终都在你身上。

Here's one of the hard times that I think you just mentioned there as well, just to add, is being the buck stops with you.

所以，如果你遇到这种情况，这是我学到的第一课，也是创业之神给你的第一个挑战。

So if you come, this is one of the things that I've learned that this is the first sort of challenge I think the entrepreneurial gods give you.

他们告诉你，所有人的问题都是你的问题，再加上你自己已有的问题。

They say, everybody's problem is your problem, as well as your existing problems.

对。

Yeah.

而且不幸的是，你没法把问题推给别人。

And unfortunately, you can't pass it to anybody.

而且因为你是负责人，没人会告诉你该怎么做或怎么处理，这也是当企业家表面上的好处之一——没人管你。

And also because you're in charge, nobody's going tell you what to do or how to handle it, which is also one of the perceived upsides of being an entrepreneur is nobody tells you what to do.

但同样，当你正忙着处理客户的大问题、财务大问题、个人大问题的时候，一个25岁的小伙子或姑娘带着一堆严肃的问题来找你，然后第二天又重复同样的事情，每天都是这样。

But also, you know, at moments where you've got a, you know, a 25 year old guy or girl come to you with some serious problems whilst you're dealing with your clients, you know, massive client problems and then massive financial problems and then massive personal problems and then more of the same repeated the same day every single

每个人又往里面加一个问题。

person adds another problem to the mix.

每个人都再加一个，简直就像一条传送带，一直送到你桌上。

And everyone adds one more to the, it's almost this conveyor belt that comes to your desk.

我跟你说过一件事，

That's one thing I said,

我

I

跟那个咨询师说，每次我们庆祝签下合同或者有新员工入职，那就像又加了一层负担。

said to the guy when I was seeing him, you know, every time we'd celebrate winning a contract or a new person would start, that was like another layer on top.

更多的是担心。

It was more worry.

你知道，团队里人越多，要付的工资就越多，赚的钱也得跟着涨，对。

You know, the more people we got in the team, the more people we had to pay, more money we had to make, the more Yeah.

而且发展得太快，招的人多，拿下的客户也多。

And the the the growth of it, the growth associated with so quickly and the amount of people we got in, the amount of clients we won.

一旦接了个新客户，我第一反应就是：天哪，我们怎么搞定？

The minute we went up as soon as we went to a client, my first thought was, god, how are we gonna do it?

我们怎么才能保证把这个交付出去？

How are we gonna be able to deliver this?

万一出了岔子怎么办？

What happens if it goes wrong?

你知道的，这个项目有很多支持，大家都觉得它能成功。

We've, you know, we've got a lot of a lot of backing on this being a success.

然后呢，你知道的，又会多出一些人来给你施压。

And then, you know, another thing would happen, you get more people on top.

就像Steve说的，你也有你自己的私事要处理。

Then like Steve said, you got your, you said you got your personal stuff as well.

而且这……

And it's

我还记得那些日子。

I just remember those days.

我在之前的播客里讲过我们被黑客攻击的那一天。

I mean, I've talked to my podcast before about that day when we got hacked.

那时候，我们所有的客户几乎都同时说要走。

And, you know, we had all of our clients at one point basically tell us they were going to leave.

我们有一支团队本来要去玩彩弹，结果我们得告诉他们不能去，还得拼命说服客户，让他们相信不是我们发的那些恶意邮件。

We had a team waiting who just want, you know, we're waiting to go to paintball and we had to tell them, but we had to try and fight to convince our clients that we didn't hack, you know, it wasn't us that had sent them those malicious emails, etc.

我记得那天，团队里有个人的男朋友甩了她，她状态特别差，需要人拉一把。你一边要安抚客户，一边家里还有一堆事，各种麻烦一起涌来。

And I remember that day, you know, someone in the team's boyfriend had dumped them and they were in a terrible state and they needed picking off of the floor, you know, your clients are picking off of the floor, you've got, you know, family issues at home and all these things going on.

而那时候你才23岁。

And you are 23 years old, like at these times.

对。

Yeah.

你才23岁。

You're 23 years old.

你连自己都还没搞明白这个世界，却被迫要表现得远超年龄的成熟，既没有相应的资历，也没有相应的压力。

You're barely trying to figure out the world to yourself and you're being forced to be significantly beyond your years without the qualifications or without the stress.

所以我学到的一件事就是，这些经历会怎样改变一个人。

And so one thing that I've learned is how much it changes you.

我看到了你的变化。

And I've seen you change.

自己很难察觉自己的变化，但我知道以前的Steve是什么样。

It's hard to see yourself change, but I can I know what old Steve was like?

我也知道Dom是什么样。

I also know what Dom's like.

而我在你身上看到的变化，可能是最明显的。

And the change I've seen in you is probably more drastic.

从我在那家Revolutions酒吧遇到的那个孩子，变成现在这个饱经风霜、强硬、坚韧，而且对胡说八道非常非常非常不耐烦的人。

Going from that kid that I met in that Revolutions bar to the, like, the weathered, tough, hard, very, very, very impatient, I'd say now, with when it comes to bullshit.

你对胡说八道或者那些惹麻烦、自以为是、心怀不轨的人容忍度非常非常低，现在你的反应就是很想赶紧跟他们划清界限。

A very, very low tolerance for bullshit or people bullshit, people that are causing problems or that are egotistical or that are doing things with bad intentions, your reaction now is you very much want to wash your hands with them very quickly.

可能在这方面你比我还急。

Probably, you're probably more impatient in that regard than I am.

有趣的是，三年时间你能改变这么多，因为你自己经历的那些事，你的性格都变了。

And it's just interesting how in three years you can change so much, this very sort of character of who you are because of the experience that you put yourself in.

但我想带你回到那天，你知道，那是你人生改变的时刻，用你自己的话说。

But I just want to take you back to so on that day, you know, this is this is the moment your life changes in your own words.

那天你坐下来，承认自己撑不住了，说你要去见那个人，说你要戒酒。

The day that you sit down and you you admit you've you're struggling and you say you're going go see this guy and you said you're going go quit drinking.

说实话，我当时不信你。

Honestly, didn't believe you.

当然，我不信你。

Of course, I didn't believe you.

我认识你的时候，你一直是个酒鬼，你知道的，我这辈子跟你一起工作、做朋友，认识的就是那个你。

I'd known drunk on for so long for my whole, you know, my whole life working with you and, you know, being friends with you, that's the only guy I'd known.

所以我当时真看不出你能做到。

So I didn't see how you would do that.

但现在我们走到这一步了，这都多久了？

But here we are, how long has it been now?

你从几月份开始的？

What month were you?

一月份，十九个月了。

January, nineteen, nineteen months.

十九个月。

Nineteen months.

对，十九

Yeah, nineteen

个月。

months.

十九个月没沾一滴酒，跑了好几个马拉松，你瘦了，我都不知道，你现在可能比我还瘦，这有点让人担心，比以往任何时候都健康，领导能力也彻底变了，团队内外所有人都对你刮目相看。

Nineteen months without a drop of alcohol, multiple marathons, you've lost, I don't know, you're probably skinnier than me now, which is concerning, healthier than ever, transformed in sense of your leadership skills, total respect from everyone in the team and beyond.

不认识你的人不知道这些，但以前不尊重你的人，现在真的怕你了。

People that don't know you don't know this, but people that didn't respect you then are literally intimidated by you now.

我们有个共同的朋友，我就不点名了，他这周末亲口跟我说，多米尼克现在让人有点怕。

And we've got a mutual friend who I won't name, but he literally told me this weekend, he was like, Dominic is like intimidating now.

你从团队里的笑柄，变成了领导能力强到让人敬畏的人。

You went from being this the joke in the group to being the, you know, the so good at leadership that you're intimidating people.

跟我聊聊这段旅程吧，从最初认识这个人开始，他教了你什么。

Talk to me about that journey from the start meeting this guy, what he taught you.

他教我的，他，我说过，这总是像一课一课的，对吧？

What he taught me, he so I said I said it was always like lessons, alright?

他，他给了我，他问了我一些问题，让我，我总是这么形容。

He he gave me the he asked me the questions, which made me I always frame it.

他让我反思自己。

He made me think about myself.

他问了我一些以前从来没人问过的问题，关于家庭、关于感情、关于工作。

He asked me questions that I've never been asked before, about family, about relationships, about work.

他让我开始思考。

And he made me think.

然后我才第一次明白自己当时在经历什么。

And I start I first understood what I was going through.

他花了大概五十分钟听我讲，然后才说，这就是你的问题。

It took him about fifty minutes of me talking at him to say, this is this is what you've got.

这就是你正在面对的事情。

This is what you're dealing with.

这就是我们打算怎么去处理它。

This is how we're going to like, go over it.

当他告诉我我有什么问题，说出“焦虑”这个词的时候，一切就开始变得清晰了。

And the minute he told me what I had and he said the word anxiety, things started to fall into place.

我当时就想，好吧，原来是这样，现在一切都说得通了。

I was like, okay, this is this is why this is this all makes sense now.

这让我开始反思自己。

And it it was I just it just made me think about myself.

他给了我信心，也给了我一些克服它的方法。

He made me gave me confidence, gave me some ways of getting over it.

你从他那里了解到了自己什么？

What what did you learn about yourself from him?

从哪儿说起呢？

Where to start?

你会了解自己的触发点。

You learn your triggers.

你会明白，你会明白，我迷失了自己。

You learn you learn you learn I lost who I was.

我永远不会忘记以前回约克看望父母的时候。

And I won't forget when I used to go home to York to my parents.

我妈妈对我的态度完全不一样了。

My my mom was just completely different with me.

我跟他说起我妈那些小事，比如她其实不想见我之类的，还有家人总觉得你变了这种想法。

And telling this guy all these things about like the small things about my mum not like wanting to see me and, you know, how family think you change as well.

这让我意识到，那并不是真实的我。

Makes you think like that's not me as a person.

后来他坐下来问我，你觉得你的价值观是什么？

And then I went, he sat down with me and said, like, look, what do you think your values are?

你希望别人怎么记住你？

What do you want to be known for?

五年后，你想成为什么样的人？

Who do you want to who do you want to be in five years?

你希望别人怎么看待你？

What do you want people to think of you?

我们大概做了这个练习。

And we kind of did the exercise.

然后他跟我说，你要做的就是把你的所有行动都建立在你的价值观之上。

And then he said to me, what you need to do then is all your actions have to sit within your values.

所以如果你觉得某件事不符合你想成为的人，或者不符合你希望别人怎么看你，那你就不能做。

So if you don't think something aligns with who you want to be or how you want to perceive, you can't do it.

不是不能做，而是不应该做，因为那不是你。

Not you can't do it, you shouldn't do it because it's not who you are.

所以我和他进行了一次很深入的交流，我们聊了我从小到大是以什么出名的，我是什么样的人，我觉得别人是怎么看我的。

So I had a real big session with him where we just spoke about what I was known for growing up, how I was, how I thought people perceive me.

然后他说，看吧，这就是你。

And he said, Look, that's who you are.

你还是那个人。

You're still that person.

你只是把他弄丢了。

You just lost him.

那真的很难受。

And it was really hard.

真的很难受，听到这样的话，因为我妈妈也跟我说过，她也觉得她失去了我，这真的很难接受。

Really hard, like, hearing that you've like, because my mom mom said that to me that she feels like she's lost me as well, which is really hard to hear.

然后，是的，我觉得通过那次，我明白了，这归根结底还是你的性格问题。

And then, yeah, I think through that, I I got it comes down to your personality.

所以很多人都跟我说过他们要戒酒。

So loads of people have told me they're gonna give up drinking.

那些人跟我说他们想尝试“一月戒酒”，结果都失败了。

Those people have told me they wanna do dry January and fail.

但说真的，你也说过，你跟我说过，而且一直让我很有共鸣的是，我记不太清原话了，你来说吧。

But really, you know, you've said it as well, you said it to me and always resonates with me is like the I can't remember off top of head, you'll jump in it.

但只有当保持现状的痛苦大于改变带来的痛苦时，改变才会发生。

But change only occurs when the pain of staying the same than is the pain of making a change.

你跟我说过这个，你跟我说过好多次，我都记不清了。

And you said that to me, you said that to me, I can't remember a number of times.

那一直让我很有共鸣。

And that was that was something that always resonated with me.

我当时就想，好吧，那种感觉，那天早上醒来时的那种感觉，我再也不要有了。

And I was like, okay, that's never that feeling that I feel I had that that morning waking up, I'm never having that feeling ever again.

我已经走出来了。

I'm getting past that.

我绝不会再回到那种状态。

I'm never going to be there again.

我一直被自己理想中的形象和价值观所激励，发誓再也不让自己陷入那种境地。

And I was just so spurred on by who I think I want to be, what my values are, and never letting myself get into that position of feeling like that ever again.

你想成为什么样的人？你的价值观是什么？

Who do you want to be and what are your

价值观？

values?

所以我想说，回到我年轻的时候，我一直都很活跃，也很爱运动。

So I want I've Okay, going back to what when I was younger, I was always really active and really sporty.

那是我非常喜欢的事情。

That was something that I really love.

我一直都很享受做这些事。

I always loved doing that.

我一直觉得自己朋友很多，在社交场合里很受欢迎，但后来这些慢慢都没了。

I always saw myself as loads of friends, loads of people that really liked in social situations, which I started to lose.

还有，我觉得我一直都挺有野心的。

And then as well, I guess I guess one thing is that I always, you know, I always tell myself as really ambitious.

我一直觉得自己是个能接受挑战、解决问题，还能克服困难的人。

And I really always tell myself as someone who takes on challenges, and solves them, solves them, but also overcomes them.

然后我就把它当成一场游戏，把酒精当成敌人，当成对手，我要打败它。

And I turned into a game for myself, turned into self that I alcohol is the enemy and alcohol is the opponent from spot, you're going be it.

我就是这么想的。

And that's how I framed it.

至于我想成为什么样的人，我心里一直有个画面。

And who I wanted to be is I I wanted to be I've got this image in my head.

这个画面一直都在。

I've always had it.

我总是会往前看几年，想象自己会变成什么样的人。

I've always like looked couple years forward of this kind of perception of this person of who I am.

描述一下他。

Describe him.

跟现在的我差不多。

Not far off I am now.

显然，这个过程永远不会彻底结束，但经过不到两年的努力，我已经几乎变成了我想成为的那个人——就是当初我宿醉时坐在那里，下定决心要成为的那种人。

I've got obviously the journey is never complete, but I'm into and just nearly under two years time of being transformed into the this person who, when I was sat there hungover after doing what I did, this is who I want to be.

说实话，我真不知道你是怎么做到的。

I don't I don't know how you've done it, to be honest.

说实话，我猜那一定是因为待在原地不动太痛苦了之类的。但你在那个年纪，面对周围所有人劝你喝酒的压力，能坚持十九个月不碰酒，这真的很不容易。

Honestly, I fucking I guess it must be the pain of staying the same or something, but it takes to not drink for nineteen months when you're your age despite everybody pressuring you, go and have, you know, go and have a drink.

然后你还去跑步，我是说，天哪，不喝酒就算了，结果你还几乎每隔一天就跑一次马拉松。我记得你昨天好像跑了12公里？

And then And then to do the running thing as well, I'm like, Christ, not drinking, but then to run marathons every bloody other day and to run I think you ran like 12 was it 12 yesterday?

对。

Yeah.

周日那天跑了12公里。

12 yesterday on a Sunday.

我当时就躺在床上，跟我的狗一起看Netflix。

I was like, I was in bed, like, watching Netflix with my dog.

而你却在外面，凌晨两点还在跑步。

And you're out there running at, like, bloody 2AM in the morning.

我真不知道你哪来的那股劲儿，你知道吗，我是说，肯定是因为什么，人们想改变，但坚持一个月就又回到老样子了。

I don't know where you get that that, like, drive to I guess, you know, I don't know, to it must have like, because something, you know, people they'll want to make a change and it will last a month and they'll be like, know, back to my old ways.

所以你能彻底改变你的人生轨迹，而且坚持了这么久，我觉得真的很了不起。

So it's pretty tremendous that you've been able to completely shift the course of your life for a sustained period of time, I think.

对。

Yeah.

而且我觉得只有回过头来，你才会意识到当时有多黑暗。

And I think it's only in hindsight, you start realizing how dark things got.

我永远不会忘记。

Like, I'll never forget.

这个我只告诉过一个人，因为我跟一个也在经历困难的朋友有过一次非常坦诚的谈话。

And this is I haven't told, I've only told one person this because I had a very open conversation with someone who's a friend who's going through things as well.

他问我，你有没有想过那件事？

And he asked me, have you ever thought about it?

我就说，什么事？

And I went, thought about what?

他说，自杀。

And he went, killing yourself.

我说，我说，没有，我从来没有坐下来想过，好，我要自杀。

And I said, I said, no, I've never sat there and thought, okay, I'm gonna kill myself.

从来没想过这个。

Never thought about that.

但有时候，你知道，这话说出来可能有点怪，就是当火车经过车站的时候，你会想，万一呢？

But sometimes, you know, and this will be all complete saying it when, when the trains come in past the station, you just think, what if?

万一我跳下去呢，你知道，我可能就没事了。

What if I jumped, you know, I'd be alright.

而且我这种想法有过好几次。

And I had I and I've had that thought with a couple of things.