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你是在告诉我这会产生影响。
You're telling me that that will have an impact.
当然。
Absolutely.
而且研究证明了这一点。
And the studies prove it.
这是一种被用于健康益处的惊人成分。
It's an amazing ingredient that's been used for its health benefits.
例如，它对内脏脂肪有影响。
For example, it has impact on visceral fat.
那是腹部脂肪吗？
Is that belly fat?
是的。
Yeah.
这是对你身体特别有害的脂肪。
It's the fat that's really bad for you.
是的。
Yeah.
你不该这么做，史蒂文。
You're not supposed to do that, Steven.
天哪。
Oh gosh.
葡萄糖女神回来了。
The Glucose Goddess is back.
杰西·因查乌斯皮克是一位生物化学家，也是一位畅销书作者，专注于营养和血糖管理。
Jessie Inchauspike is a biochemist and bestselling author with a focus on nutrition and glucose management.
她提供了简单且基于科学的建议，帮助我们改善健康。
She provides simple science backed tips to improve our health.
百分之八十的人每天都会出现血糖波动，问题就是从这里开始的。
Eighty percent of the population have glucose spikes every single day, That's when problems start happening.
从心理健康到痤疮、加速衰老、不孕不育，再到多囊卵巢综合征——这是女性不孕的主要原因之一。
From mental health to acne to faster aging, infertility, and PCOS, which is one of the leading causes of infertility in women.
问题是，我们现在的食物环境极其恶劣，大多数人摄入的都是糖和淀粉，而它们本质上就是由葡萄糖分子组成的。
And the problem is we're in a situation where the food landscape is so toxic and most of us just eat sugar and starches, but they're literally made up of glucose molecules.
有没有所谓的‘好糖’？
Is there any such thing as good sugar?
没有。
No.
所以，今天我们能在超市里找到的所有水果都不是天然的。
So even all the fruit that we find today in supermarkets is not natural.
有些人认为，如果糖来自水果，比如水果奶昔，那就是好糖，但这是完全的谎言。
Some people believe that if the sugar is coming from a fruit, for example, in a fruit smoothie, that's good sugar, but that's a total lie.
你的身体无法区分糖是来自水果奶昔还是来自巧克力蛋糕。
And your body doesn't differentiate whether the sugar is in a fruit smoothie or the sugar is in a chocolate cake.
在你测试过的食物中，有哪些让你感到意外的吗？
Are there any foods that have surprised you when you tested them?
有。
Yes.
我认为最大的几个是
I think the biggest ones are
哇哦。
Wow.
这就引出了一个问题。
This begs the question then.
有没有一种健康的方式可以摄入糖分？
Is there a healthy way to consume sugar?
这些是人们可以在生活中实施的四种方法，你可以在依然享用喜爱食物的同时，减少血糖波动。
So these are four hacks that people can implement in their lives, and you're able to reduce your glucose spikes while still eating what you love.
你把这些方法拿来做了个实验？
And you took these hacks and did an experiment?
是的。
Yes.
90%的人减少了渴望，对睡眠、荷尔蒙、情绪和糖尿病产生了显著影响。
And 90% of people reduced their cravings, really significant impacts on sleep, hormones, mood, on diabetes.
数据显示，大约百分之四十有减重意愿的人确实成功减重了。
It says roughly forty percent of people who wanted to lose weight did in fact lose weight.
是的。
Yep.
那么这些方法是什么呢？
So what are the hacks?
第一个方法是
The first one is
杰西·因乔斯皮，葡萄糖女神。
Jessie Inchauspie, The Glucose Goddess.
我们两年前聊过，从那以后，我觉得出现了一场真正的葡萄糖革命，而这场革命很大程度上是由你引领的。
We spoke two years ago, and in that time, I feel like there's been a real glucose revolution, much of which has been led by you.
你的书籍在全球售出了数百万册。
Your books have sold millions and millions and millions of copies around the world.
你在网上的对话获得了数以千万计的浏览量，多到我根本数不清。
Your conversations online have millions and millions and millions and millions of views, more than I could possibly count.
葡萄糖现在怎么了？
What's going on with glucose?
事实上，葡萄糖一直对我们的健康至关重要，但之前它一直是在幕后发挥作用。
The thing is, glucose has always been incredibly important to our health, but it's been going on behind the scenes.
但现在，有了我们现有的技术——葡萄糖监测仪和新的科学研究，我们真正能够很好地掌握它，并通过这个视角理解我们的饮食。
But now, with the technology that we have, glucose monitors, new science, we're actually able to get a real good handle on it and understand our diet through that lens.
所以，史蒂文，我们大多数人血糖水平都不健康。
So most of us, Steven, have unhealthy glucose levels.
举个例子，全球有十亿人患有二型糖尿病或前期糖尿病。
To give you an example, one billion people in the world have either type two diabetes or prediabetes.
十亿人。
One billion.
而且这个数字每天都在增加。
And that number is increasing every single day.
而在那些没有任何健康问题的人中，高达百分之八十的人每天都会出现血糖波动。
And then in people who don't have any health issues, up to eighty percent of the population still has glucose spikes every single day.
这会导致许多症状，从心理健康问题到生育问题、痤疮再到加速衰老。
And this leads to lots of symptoms, from mental health problems to fertility to acne to faster aging.
葡萄糖非常重要，我很高兴我们越来越多地讨论它。
Glucose is really important, and I'm really happy that we're talking about it more.
你有没有惊讶于人们对葡萄糖和糖的关注度提升得这么多？
What have you have you been surprised by how much people have woken up to glucose sugar?
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Definitely.
我认为，以前人们只知道‘血糖’，但现在大家都知道‘葡萄糖’这个词了，这让我感到非常欣慰。
I think even the word glucose people used to know blood sugar, but now the fact that people know what glucose is makes me quite happy.
这是对血糖更科学的叫法。
That's the scientific way to refer to blood sugar.
这很令人惊讶，但事实是，我身在其中。
It's surprising, but the thing is, like, I'm on the inside.
我每天都在努力，确保人们了解葡萄糖是什么。
I'm working every single day to make sure people know what glucose is.
这就像是，你知道，把青蛙放进水里，然后慢慢加热水。
So it's like, you know, when you put the frog in the water and then you slowly boil the water.
你明白这个画面吗？
You know that image?
青蛙察觉不到水在变热。
And the frog doesn't notice the water is boiling.
我就是这种感觉，因为我已经做这件事五年了。
That's how I feel because I've been doing this for five years now.
所以现在我可以对比今天和五年前，发现已经有了巨大的转变。
So I can tell now if I compare today to five years ago, there's been a huge shift.
但我每天都盯着看，一天天观察，这种增长非常缓慢。
But I've been looking at it every single day, day by day, and the increase has been very gradual.
你如何定义自己？
How do you define yourself?
你有一个叫‘血糖女神’的称号，但专业上，如果有人问你做什么，你会怎么定义呢？
There's this sort of name you go under, Glucose Goddess, but professionally, if someone says what you do, how do you define that?
我说我是一名生物化学家。
I say I'm a biochemist.
我是一名热衷于以有趣、易懂且吸引人的方式传播科学的生物化学家。
I'm a biochemist passionate about sharing science in a fun, accessible, sexy way.
这就是我喜欢做的事。
That's what I like to do.
这些连续血糖监测仪（CGM），现在人人都在戴，这在很大程度上是人们认识你的原因吗？
These CGMs, continuous glucose monitors that everybody seems to be wearing these days, they're much of the the reason people, I guess, know you?
因为你会在Instagram上发布那些精彩的数据图表，展示我们吃的东西对血糖水平的影响。
Because you post these incredible graphs on your Instagram showing the impact of the of the things we on our glucose levels.
是的。
Yep.
我想从这里开始。
I wanna start there.
当我吃一些甜食的时候，是的。
When I eat something sweet Yeah.
而且含糖量高的食物，我的连续血糖监测仪会显示血糖飙升。
And full of sugar, there's a spike in my CGM, so my continuous glucose monitor.
血糖飙升是否意味着我的身体里正在发生什么坏事？
Does does the spike mean that something bad is going on in my body?
有点吧。
Kind of.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我先退一步说。
So I'll go just one step back.
食物有很多种类别，但只有两类会影响我们的血糖水平。
There's lots of different categories of foods, but there are two that impact our blood sugar levels.
一个是淀粉类，比如面包、米饭、意大利面、土豆、燕麦；另一个是糖类，比如从苹果派到橙汁的所有甜食。
It's starches, so that's bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, oats, and sugars, so anything sweet from an apple pie to an orange juice.
这两类食物本质上都是由葡萄糖分子组成的。
These two categories of foods, they are literally made up of glucose molecules.
所以当你吃它们时，它们会分解成单个的葡萄糖分子，这些葡萄糖分子进入你的血液。
So when you eat them, they break down into individual glucose molecules, and the glucose molecules arrive into your blood.
如果你一次性摄入大量淀粉和糖类，就会有大量葡萄糖分子进入血液，这就是你看到的现象。
If you eat a lot of starches and sugars at once, a lot of glucose molecules are arriving into your blood, And that's what you see.
这就是你在血糖监测仪上看到的峰值。
That's the spike you see on your glucose monitor.
这些峰值会带来几种不同的后果。
Now, these spikes have a few different consequences.
偶尔出现几次峰值没什么大不了，但如果你出现非常大的峰值——我认为即使我们没有糖尿病，大多数人现在都发现了这一点——那时问题就开始出现了。
Having a few spikes here and there is not a big deal, but if you have really big spikes, which I think most of us are discovering we have even if we don't have diabetes, that's when problems start happening.
当你出现峰值时，身体里基本上会发生三个过程。
And there's basically three processes that take place in your body when you spike.
那就是线粒体的慢性疲劳、衰老、糖基化，以及胰岛素的释放。
It's chronic fatigue of your mitochondria, aging, glycation, and then insulin release.
我可以详细讲讲这些，但它们正是葡萄糖峰值带来所有负面影响的根本原因。
And I can go into detail into these, but these are what underpin all the negative consequences of glucose spikes.
那就从第一个开始吧。
So start with that first one.
好的。
Okay.
线粒体。
The mitochondria.
你的细胞里有一些微小的工厂，负责生产能量。
So there's these little factories in your cells that are in charge of making energy.
你上学时一定学过这个。
You must have learned this at school.
你知道，线粒体是细胞的工厂。
You know, the mitochondria is the factory of the cell.
这些小小的线粒体一直在为你的身体制造能量，它们将葡萄糖转化为能量。
These little mitochondria are constantly trying to make energy for your body, and they turn glucose into energy.
所以你通过食物给他们提供葡萄糖，它们将葡萄糖转化为能量，然后你的大脑使用这些能量，心脏用来泵血，耳朵用来听，眼睛用来看。
So you give them glucose through food, they turn it into energy, and then your brain uses the energy, your heart to pump, your ears to listen, your eyes to see.
你的整个身体都在使用这种能量。
Your whole body uses this energy.
因此你可能会想，好吧，我想要很多能量，所以我应该给我的线粒体提供大量的葡萄糖。
And so you might think, okay, I want lots of energy, so I should give my mitochondria lots of glucose.
这可能是你自然得出的结论。
That's the logical conclusion you might come to.
但正是在这里，整个逻辑完全崩溃了。
But that's where it completely collapses.
你看，生物学有点奇怪。
See, biology is a bit weird.
以植物为例。
Take the example of a plant.
你家里有植物吗？
Do you have any plants at home?
我有。
I do.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
你能把它们养活吗？
Are you able to keep them alive?
我的保洁员把它们都照顾得很好。
My cleaner does a great job of keeping all of them alive.
我很难养活它们。
I have a super hard time.
我提到植物的原因是因为你
The reason I'm bringing up plants is because you
你知道植物需要一些水才能生存，但如果你给它们太多水，它们就会淹死并死亡。
know that plants need some water to live, but if you give them too much water, they drown and they die.
人体也是类似的。
The human body is kind of the same.
适量的葡萄糖能提供稳定能量，但葡萄糖过多，你的线粒体会开始崩溃。
Some glucose, amazing steady energy, too much glucose and your little mitochondria start freaking out.
它们会被过多的葡萄糖冲垮。
They get overwhelmed by too much glucose arriving their way.
它们会罢工。
They kind of go on strike.
我是法国人，所以我懂。
And I'm French, so I know.
它们会罢工，被压垮、感到压力，无法再有效产生能量，因为我们给它们的葡萄糖太多了，超出了处理能力。
But they sort of go on strike, and they get overwhelmed and stressed out, and they're not able to make energy effectively anymore because we're overloading them with too much glucose to process.
作为人类，你会有什么感觉？
And as a human, what do you feel?
你会感到慢性疲劳。
You feel chronic fatigue.
你醒来时，感到精疲力尽。
You wake up, you're exhausted.
想到要去超市购物或者接孩子，都觉得特别累。
Thinking of going to the grocery store or picking up your kids is super tiring.
你的身体里有一个能量系统，已经出了问题。
There's this energy system in your body that's just kind of broken.
但你还是继续吃碳水化合物，比如牛角面包、面包或者甜食，结果却越来越疲惫。
But you keep eating carbs, you know, croissant, some bread, something sweet, but you keep being more and more tired.
这就是你的线粒体功能失调。
That's your mitochondria dysfunctioning.
所以，当你血糖飙升时，第一件事就是感到疲倦。
So that's the first thing that happens when you spike.
你会感到疲倦。
You get tired.
你的线粒体会感到压力过大。
Your mitochondria get stressed out.
有趣的是，有时候当我们吃一些甜食，尤其是早上喝橙汁时，会感觉有一股能量涌上来。
And one thing that's interesting is that sometimes when we eat something sweet, especially in the morning like an orange juice, we kind of feel a sense of like a like a rush of energy.
你喝一大杯橙汁，短暂地精神一振。
You know, you have a big glass of orange juice and you sort of perk up for a sec.
大多数人以为那就是能量。
Most people think that that is energy.
实际上发生的是，糖分在大脑中释放了多巴胺，这是一种愉悦分子。
What's actually going on is that sugar releases dopamine in the brain, and it's the pleasure molecule.
它和你发生性行为、玩电子游戏、吸食非法毒品时释放的是同一种分子。
It's the same molecule that gets released when you have sex, when you play video games, when you do illegal drugs.
糖分会释放多巴胺。
Sugar releases dopamine.
这是一种愉悦感。
It's pleasure.
它会让你短暂地感觉清醒。
It makes you kind of feel awake just briefly.
但事实上，那并不是真正的能量，因为你的线粒体内部正在受到损伤。
But actually, that's not energy because on the inside, your mitochondria are being damaged.
所以我们被含糖食物欺骗了。
So we're being tricked by sugary foods.
当我们感到疲倦时，常常会想要吃点甜食来提神，但这在体内根本不起作用。
And when we're tired, we often reach for something sugary to perk us up, but it doesn't work on the inside.
所以这是第一点。
So that's the first thing.
你的线粒体会感到压力。
Your mitochondria get stressed out.
当线粒体承受压力时，它们还会释放一种叫做自由基的物质，这会增加体内的炎症。
And as your mitochondria get stressed out, they also release what's called free radicals, which is something that increases inflammation in the body.
炎症是非常糟糕的东西，我们稍后会谈到。
And inflammation is a really nasty thing we'll get to in a sec.
当你血糖飙升时发生的第二件事，跟烤箱里烤鸡有关。
The second thing that happens when you spike has to do with a chicken cooking in the oven.
所以如果你觉得我刚才说的很奇怪，
So if you put you're looking at me weird,
但让我解释一下。
but let me explain.
如果你把一只鸡放进
If you put a chicken in
烤箱里，它会从粉红色变成棕色。
the oven, it goes from pink to brown.
对吧？
Right?
你肯定见过这个。
You've seen this.
它被烤熟了。
It cooks.
这种烹饪过程被称为糖基化。
This process of cooking is called glycation.
这是一种变色或烹饪的过程。
It's the process of browning or of cooking.
比如当你烤面包的时候，情况也是一样的。
Same thing when you toast a piece of toast, for example.
有趣的是，人类从出生那一刻起，就在体内以同样的方式慢慢被‘烹饪’。
The interesting thing is a human being from the moment we're born, we're slowly cooking in that same way on the inside.
我们正在慢慢发生糖基化。
We're slowly glycating.
我们正在慢慢变褐。
We're slowly browning.
当我们的糖基化完全完成、彻底‘煮熟’时，我们就死了。
And then when we're fully glycated, when we're fully cooked, we die.
这就是为什么你看到婴儿的软骨是白色的。
That's why when you look at the cartilage of babies, it's white.
而如果你看一个90岁的人的软骨，它就是棕色的。
And if you look at the cartilage of somebody who's 90 years old, it's brown.
他们内部已经熟了。
They've cooked on the inside.
每一次血糖升高都会加剧。
And every glucose spike increases.
你在看自己的皮肤。
You're looking at your skin.
逐渐向外显现。
Coming outside.
我们得把你打开，看看你的软骨是什么颜色。
We'd have to like open you up and look at your card to the color.
明白了。
Got
还剩大约十分钟。
about ten minutes left.
我知道，史蒂文。
I know, Steven.
每一次血糖飙升都会加剧糖基化过程。
And every glucose spike increases its process of glycation.
以至于血糖和糖基化听起来像是相似的词，血糖-糖基化。
So much so that glucose and glycation, they kind of sound like a similar word, glucose glycation.
这是因为血糖在引发糖基化。
It's because it's glucose doing the glycating.
所以每一次血糖飙升都会增加糖基化、加剧体内‘烹饪’，加速衰老。
So every glucose spike increases glycation, increases cooking, accelerates aging.
这些会在你的皮肤上显现出来：糖基化越多，皱纹出现得越快；同时体内器官也会逐渐受损。
And this shows on your skin, you get wrinkles faster if you glycate more, and also on the inside, your organs slowly get damaged.
因此，血糖飙升会导致线粒体疲劳，让你衰老得更快。
So glucose spikes, mitochondria get tired, you age faster.
针对这种情况，你的身体知道，Steven，一次大的血糖飙升对你有害。
In response to this, your body knows, Steven, that a big glucose spike is not good for you.
你的身体知道必须采取措施来降低血糖水平。
Your body knows that it has to do something to try to get that glucose level down.
所以它会召唤你的胰腺，跟它说：嘿，胰腺，现在血糖飙升了。
So what it does, it calls up your pancreas and it's like, yo, pancreas, we got a glucose spike going on.
我们需要把血糖降下来。
We need to get this glucose down.
作为回应，你的胰腺会向体内释放一种叫做胰岛素的激素。
In response, your pancreas sends a hormone called insulin out in your body.
你以前听说过胰岛素吧。
You've heard of insulin before.
对吧？
Right?
胰岛素的工作，我们都很喜欢她，就是抓住这些多余的葡萄糖分子，把它们储存起来，以免继续损害你的身体。
And insulin's job, and we love her, her job is to grab all these excess glucose molecules and to store them away so they don't damage your body anymore.
胰岛素会把葡萄糖储存在你的肝脏和肌肉里。
And insulin stores glucose away into your liver, into your muscles.
当这些地方装满后，胰岛素就会把葡萄糖储存在你的脂肪细胞中。
And then when those are full, insulin stores glucose away into your fat cells.
这就是你身体长脂肪的一种方式。
And that's one of the ways that you gain fat on your body.
这是身体对血糖波动的反应，旨在保护你免受波动的伤害。
It's in response to the spikes in your body trying to protect you from the spikes.
但问题在于，胰岛素本身会带来后果，是导致二型糖尿病和胰岛素抵抗的主因。
The problem is insulin itself has consequences and is the driver of type two diabetes and insulin resistance.
所以回答你的问题，是的，当你在血糖监测仪上看到明显的峰值时，这种情况确实在发生。
So to answer your question, yes, when you see a big spike on your glucose monitor, there's some of that going on.
你经历的峰值越多，你的身体就越难控制这些波动。
And the more spikes you have, the harder it is going to be for your body to manage your spikes.
这就形成了一种恶性循环。
So it kind of becomes a vicious cycle.
如果你继续以同样的方式饮食，随着时间推移，你的血糖峰值会越来越大，造成的损害也会越来越多。
If you keep eating the same way, your spikes will get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger over time with more and more damage.
关于胰岛素储存多余葡萄糖的这一点，是不是意味着如果我肌肉量更大，就能更好地摄入含糖食物？
On that last point about where insulin stores the excess glucose, does that mean that if I have more muscle mass, I'm better at eating sugary products?
是的。
Yep.
这就是为什么如果你特别爱吃饼干，最好的吃法是在锻炼后或锻炼前吃。
And that's why if you really love cookies, the best time to eat them is right after you work out, right before you work out.
因为你的肌肉时刻都在急需葡萄糖。
Because your muscles are really hungry for glucose all the time.
你的肌肉越大，使用得越多，它们就会吸收更多的葡萄糖作为能量。
And the bigger your muscles are, the more you use them, the more they're going to capture some of that glucose for energy.
好的。
Okay.
我和我的伴侣都去健身房。
So me and my partner, we both go to the gym.
她在各个方面都比我小得多。
She is significantly smaller than me in every way.
她个子很矮。
She's she's short.
她很瘦，你知道的。
She's, you know, she's lean.
我比她大。
I'm bigger than her.
我有更多的肌肉。
I have I have more muscle mass.
这意味着，如果我吃一块饼干，她也吃完全相同的那块，她的血糖反应可能会和我的有很大不同。
That means that if I have one cookie and she has the exact same cookie, then her glucose response is gonna be potentially significantly different to mine.
是的。
Yes.
有可能。
Potentially.
所以，如果你只看肌肉量，因为你肌肉更多，你能更好地处理那块饼干。
So if you just look at muscle mass, since you have more muscle mass, you'll be able to handle that cookie better.
但影响血糖反应的因素太多了。
But there are so many things that influence glucose response.
例如，你的水分摄入水平、你的压力程度、你的肠道菌群、你的基因、女性所处的月经周期阶段，以及你昨晚的睡眠质量。
For example, your level of hydration, how stressed you are, your microbiome, your genetics, what time of the month you're in when you're a female, how well you've slept last night.
我的意思是，影响因素还挺多的。
I mean, there's a few factors.
所以如果你只是把你的血糖峰值和她的做比较，根本无法得出任何结论，因为有太多混杂变量。
So if you were just to compare your spike to hers, you couldn't really draw any conclusions because there's so many confounding variables.
这些混杂变量能让我了解一些具体情况，为什么它们重要，以及它们如何影响我的血糖反应。
Those confounding variables, give me a window into some of them and why they matter and how they have an impact on my glucose response.
我觉得肌肉就是一个很好的例子。
So I think muscles are a really good example.
对吧？
Right?
如果两个人吃了完全相同的饼干，肌肉量更多的人血糖上升幅度可能会更小，因为他们的肌肉能更快吸收更多的葡萄糖。
If two people eat the same exact cookie, the person with more muscle mass is going to potentially see a smaller glucose spike because their muscles are gonna absorb more of that glucose and faster.
从基因角度来看，有些人更容易让脂肪细胞增长，也更容易增加脂肪细胞的数量和大小。
If you look at genetics, some people are better at growing their fat cells and at growing the number and the size of their fat cells.
所以他们有更大的储存空间来容纳葡萄糖。
So they have a bigger reservoir to put glucose in.
例如，南亚裔人群往往更难增加脂肪细胞。
People of South Asian descent, for example, they tend to have a harder time putting on fat cells.
因此，他们的血糖峰值往往更高，因为他们缺乏可以扩张的储存单元。
And as a result, their glucose spikes tend to be bigger because they don't have that storage unit that they can access and increase the size of.
这说得通吗？
Does that make sense?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好。
Yeah.
明白。
Mhmm.
当你测试某些食物时，有没有哪一种让你感到意外？
Are there any foods that you have been surprised at when you've tested them?
这正是我佩戴连续血糖监测仪时发现的惊人现象之一：我会吃一些已经吃了很久的东西，结果却导致血糖飙升。
Because this is one of the really shocking things that I discovered when I wore a continuous glucose monitor is I would eat some things that I've been eating for a long, long time, and they would cause a spike.
我当时就想：什么？
And I like, what?
我以为那些是健康食品。
I thought that was healthy.
是的。
Yeah.
但那些食物具体是哪些呢？我想说的是，
But what are those things, I guess, for the
让你感到惊讶的是哪些？
The surprising ones?
那些让你惊讶的食物，不只是你自己的，还有那些给你发消息说‘天哪，杰西’的人们提到的。
The surprising ones, not just for you, but for people that message you and go, oh my god, Jessie.
是的。
Yeah.
我一直被误导了，以为番茄酱是健康的，或者
I've been lied to about my tomato ketchup or
好的。
Okay.
我觉得最让人惊讶的是蜂蜜和葡萄。
I think the biggest ones are honey and grapes.
明白了。
Okay.
先说葡萄吧。
So grapes first.
你以为它只是水果。
You think it's a fruit.
它很健康。
It's healthy.
这是天然的。
It's natural.
对我有好处。
It's good for me.
对吧？
Right?
但实际上，今天我们能在超市里找到的所有水果都不是天然的。
Well, actually, all the fruit that we find today in supermarkets is not natural.
它们是人类数千年来培育的产物，为了使它们更加香甜、多汁。
It is the product of human breeding for thousands and thousands of years to make them extra sweet, extra juicy.
就像人类从灰狼开始培育狗，最终培育出吉娃娃和金毛寻回犬一样，这些并不是天然的狗品种。
In the same way that humans have been breeding dogs from the time of the gray wolves into chihuahuas and golden retrievers, these are not natural types of dogs.
我们把狼培育成了这些狗。
We've bred wolves into these dogs.
水果也是一样的道理。
Fruit is the same thing.
我们培育水果，造出了这些无籽、只含一小口糖分的漂亮葡萄。
We've bred pieces of fruit to make these beautiful grapes without any seeds and just this little pocket of sugar.
所以当你仔细看一颗葡萄时，它实际上就是一大份糖。
And so a grape, when you look at it, actually, it's just a big dose of sugar.
它以水果的形式出现，所以人们以为它对身体有益。
It's in the fruit format, so people think it's good for them.
但实际上，就血糖水平而言，它只会导致血糖急剧升高。
But actually, when it comes to glucose levels, it's just big glucose spike.
这些真的让人很惊讶。
So those are really surprising.
所有水果都是这样吗？
All fruits?
这要看情况。
It varies.
对吧？
Right?
例如，浆果的糖分较低，因此引起的血糖升高较小。
So for example, berries are lower in sugar, so create a smaller spike.
但任何热带水果，比如香蕉、芒果、木瓜，还有葡萄，糖分都特别高。
But any tropical fruit like bananas, mangoes, papayas, and then grapes also, those are really high in sugar.
是的。
Yeah.
但关键是，吃一块水果是可以的，因为它含有纤维。
But the thing is, you know, a piece of a fruit is okay because it has fiber in it.
真正的问题出现在你将水果加工成汁液时，比如榨汁，因为这样你就去除了保护性的纤维，只提取了水分和糖分。
The real problem comes when you denature that piece of fruit and you turn it into a juice, for example, because then you're removing that protective fiber and just extracting the water and the sugar.
对。
Yeah.
自从开始做这个播客以来，我就没再喝过一杯果汁了，因为一些我采访过的人告诉我，喝果汁就跟喝糖水一样。
I've not drank a glass of juice since starting this podcast because some people I've spoken to have told me that it's just like drinking sugar water.
是的。
Yeah.
这就像喝一罐可乐一样。
It's just like drinking a can of Coke.
但人们认为，既然它来自水果，那就是天然的。
But people think, well, it comes from a piece of fruit, so it's natural.
橙汁来自橙子。
Orange juice comes from oranges.
因此，因为它天然，所以对健康有益。
Therefore, it's good for you because it's natural.
他们没意识到，一罐苏打水里的糖也是天然的。
What they don't realize is that the sugar in a can of soda is also natural.
它来自甜菜。
It comes from sugar beets
嗯。
Mhmm.
或者甘蔗。
Or canes.
所以如果你真的关注糖的来源，就会发现这根本无关紧要。
So if you're really looking at the source of the sugar, you realize it doesn't matter at all.
它们都来自植物。
They all come from plants.
重要的是糖的浓度以及它所处的载体。
What matters is the concentration and the medium that the sugar is in.
我明白葡萄会引起血糖升高，因为尝起来是甜的。
I understand grapes causing a glucose spike because when I taste it, it tastes sweet.
但有些我吃的东西并不甜，却也会引起血糖升高。
But there's some things that I eat that don't taste sweet that cause a glucose spike.
那些东西我觉得是在欺骗我。
And those are the things that I think lie to me.
比如面包？
Like bread?
就像面包。
Like bread.
是的。
Yeah.
比如米饭。
Like rice.
是的。
Yeah.
其实，葡萄糖本身并不甜。
Well, thing is glucose is actually not sweet.
你在水果中尝到的其实是果糖。
What you're tasting in fruit is fructose.
让我解释一下。
So let me explain.
像面包、意大利面、米饭、土豆、燕麦这些，都是淀粉。
So starches like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, oats, Those are starches.
这些淀粉本质上就是数百万个葡萄糖分子手拉手连接在一起。
Those are literally millions of glucose molecules just attached hand to hand like this.
那就是一种淀粉。
That's a starch.
它就是一长串葡萄糖分子。
It's just a long chain of glucose.
当你吃下淀粉时，瞬间它就会分解成单个的葡萄糖分子，即使不甜也会升高你的血糖。
When you eat the starch, poof, it turns into individual glucose molecules, raises your blood sugar even though it doesn't taste sweet.
在水果或糖里，你吃的并不是淀粉。
In a piece of fruit or in sugar, you're not eating starch.
你吃的是蔗糖，一种不同的分子，由一半葡萄糖和一半果糖组成。
What you're eating is sucrose, a different kind of molecule, which is half glucose, half fructose.
是的。
Yeah.
所以当它分解时，会给你带来葡萄糖和血糖飙升，同时也带来果糖——果糖非常甜，但对血糖的影响却不大。
So when it breaks down, it gives you glucose and a spike, but also fructose that tastes really sweet but doesn't raise your blood sugar levels that much.
那么从另一个角度来看，有没有一些食物尝起来很甜，但不会影响我的血糖？
So I get on the other side of the coin then, are there foods that taste sweet but don't have an impact on my glucose?
是的。
Yes.
甜味剂，比如甜叶菊、阿斯巴甜之类的。
Sweeteners, stevia, aspartame, things like that.
所以你的意思是，我应该在食物里用甜味剂代替糖？
So you're saying that I should put sweeteners in my food as opposed to sugar?
嗯，我认为人们需要意识到，尽管甜味剂对我们也不是特别好，但喝水总比喝无糖汽水强。
Well, I think people need to realize that even though sweeteners are not super good for us, right, of course, it's better to drink water than a diet soda.
无糖汽水比那罐含有30克真糖的普通汽水对你更健康。
The diet soda is better for you than the regular can of soda with the 30 grams of real sugar in there.
我本人从来不会喝普通汽水。
I personally would never have a can of real soda.
我总是会选择无糖汽水。
I would always have the diet soda.
总是，总是，总是。
Always, always, always.
因为这些甜味剂不会升高你的血糖水平。
Because those sweeteners don't raise your blood sugar levels.
明白吗？
Okay?
它们不会造成血糖和胰岛素的大幅飙升然后骤降。
They don't create that big spike and that big insulin spike and then the drop.
有所谓的‘好糖’吗？
Is there such a good thing as good sugar?
真的存在什么‘好糖’吗？
Is there any such thing as good sugar?
没有。
No.
人们常常认为，如果糖来自水果，比如早上喝的水果奶昔，那就是好糖。
People often believe that if the sugar is coming from a fruit and is it for is, for example, in a fruit smoothie that they might have in the morning, that's good sugar.
但蛋糕里的那种糖就是坏糖。
But that sugar that's in a cake is bad sugar.
所以人们往往会把这两者进行比较，说：哦，我喝的水果奶昔对我有好处，但那块巧克力蛋糕就对身体不好。
So people tend to compare these two and say, oh, well, I'm having a fruit smoothie that's good for me, but, oh, that chocolate cake would be bad for me.
这完全是谎言。
That's a total lie.
它们的分子完全一样。
It's all the same molecules.
水果奶昔里的分子和巧克力蛋糕里的分子是一样的。
The molecules in that fruit smoothie and the molecules in that chocolate cake are the same.
那就是蔗糖。
It's sucrose.
本质上是同一种物质，你的身体根本无法区分糖是来自水果奶昔还是来自巧克力蛋糕。
It's the same stuff, and your body doesn't differentiate whether the sugar is in a fruit smoothie or the sugar is in a chocolate cake.
所以所有的糖都是一样的。
So all sugar is the same.
即使是蜂蜜、龙舌兰糖浆、枫糖浆，这些因为营销而被赋予健康光环的东西，其实分子组成也完全相同。
Even honey, agave, maple syrup, all these things that have these health halos because of marketing, it's all the same molecules.
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所以我建议人们就吃他们最喜欢的那种糖。
So I recommend that people just have the sugar that they like best.
别以为其中一种会比另一种对你更好。
Don't think that one is going to be better for you than the other.
把所有的糖都当作甜点来吃。
And have all sugar as dessert.
所以那个水果奶昔，那也是甜点。
So that fruit smoothie, that's also dessert.
它并不特别健康，只是因为来自水果。
It's not super healthy because it comes from fruit.
它就跟巧克力蛋糕一样。
It's just like the chocolate cake.
那么，真的存在好甜味和坏甜味之分吗？
And all that is there such a thing as good sweetness and bad sweetness?
是的。
Yeah.
所以有几类。
So there's a few categories.
对我们来说似乎很安全的是甜菊糖、罗汉果和赤藓糖醇。
So the ones that seem to be really fine for us are stevia, monk fruit, and allulose.
与许多健康问题有关的是阿斯巴甜、麦芽糖醇和三氯蔗糖。
The ones that have been linked to quite a few health issues are aspartame, maltitol, sucralose.
例如，阿斯巴甜通常出现在碳酸饮料中。
So for example, aspartame, you usually find it in soda.
而甜菊糖，你可能会在家买一小包，加到茶里。
Whereas stevia, you might buy a little packet at home and put it in your tea.
话虽如此，阿斯巴甜仍然比含有30克真糖的普通可乐更健康。
That being said, the aspartame is still better for you than the real can of Coke with the 30 grams of real sugar.
所以甜菊糖是我应该避免的吗？
So stevia is something that I shouldn't be
不用。
No.
甜菊糖很好。
Stevia is good.
对。
Yeah.
你不应该太担心。
You shouldn't be too concerned.
你用甜菊糖吗？
Do you use stevia?
我什么甜味剂都没加。
I didn't put any sweeteners in anything.
我也没加糖。
I didn't put sugar in anything either.
所以我正努力避免喝咖啡。
So I'm trying to stay away from the coffee.
只是纯黑咖啡。
It's just black coffee.
你连巧克力都不吃？
You don't even eat chocolate?
当然吃。
I course, I.
巧克力，可能没那么爱吃。
Chocolate, maybe not so much.
也许那不是我的菜。
Maybe that's not my thing.
但确实如此。
But yeah.
甜食？
Sweet thing?
胡萝卜蛋糕。
Carrot cake.
你最爱的甜食是什么？
What's your sweet thing?
哦，巧克力。
Oh, chocolate.
我超爱巧克力。
I love chocolate.
比如，我最喜欢的是巧克力冰淇淋，配上巧克力布朗尼、巧克力酱和巧克力碎屑。
Like, my favorite is is, like, chocolate ice cream with a chocolate brownie and chocolate sauce and chocolate sprinkles.
任何巧克力都行。
Anything chocolate
这可不太像葡萄糖女神的做法。
is That's not very Glucose Goddess.
好吧，Steven，你这就错了。
Well, here's where you're wrong, Steven.
我其实并不反对糖。
I'm actually not anti sugar.
你在说什么呢？
What are you talking about?
不。
No.
我爱糖。
I love sugar.
我吃糖。
I eat sugar.
我经常吃碳水化合物，但我想让人们了解我所知道的，那就是如何以及何时食用这些食物。
I eat carbs all the time, but I want people to know what I know, which is how and when to eat those things.
这期播客到此结束。
That's the end of the podcast.
谢谢。
Thank you
非常感谢你来到这里。
so much for being here.
很高兴再见到你。
It would be great to see you again.
不。
No.
认真的，我们需要学会如何吃这些食物，因为它们虽然美味，但对健康的影响没那么糟糕。
Seriously, we need to learn how to eat these things because they're so delicious in a way that's less bad for our health.
这不是关于彻底戒掉它们。
It's not about cutting them out.
那会是一种节食。
That would be a diet.
我不是支持节食的。
I don't I'm not I'm not pro diets.
我支持的是知识。
I'm pro knowledge.
我想确保人们不会在早餐时吃糖和甜点。
And I wanna make sure people are not having sugar and dessert for breakfast.
比如早上吃甜麦片和橙汁。
You know, sweet cereal in the morning and orange juice.
那是甜点。
That's dessert.
无论如何，我主要致力于向人们提供信息，让他们不被这些营销谎言所误导。
Anyway, I'm all about just trying to empower people with the information so they don't get trapped by these marketing lies.
但我们真的应该吃这么多糖吗？
Are we meant to be eating the amounts of sugar that we eat though?
因为，我们本来就应该吃糖吗？
Because, like, are we meant to be eating any sugar?
我们的进化史告诉我们，我们与葡萄糖的关系是怎样的？
Is what is our sort of evolutionary history tell us about our relationship with with glucose?
我认为水果是我们应该吃的，但过去存在的水果甜度更低、更难消化、纤维更多。
I think fruit is something we're meant to be eating, but the fruit that used to exist was less sweet and harder to digest and more fibrous.
至于淀粉类食物，完全是可以吃的。
And then in terms of starches, starches are totally fine to eat.
问题是，如今我们大多数人只吃糖和淀粉。
The problem is today, most of us just eat sugar and starches.
我们已经完全失去了对优质蛋白质、内脏、纤维和健康脂肪的接触。
We've completely lost touch with the nice proteins and the organ meats and the fiber and the healthy fats.
我们正处在一个食物环境极其恶劣的境地，充斥着淀粉和糖分，导致人们越来越生病。
We're in a situation where the food landscape is so toxic and is so just starches and sugars that people are getting sicker and sicker and sicker.
而且这种食物具有成瘾性，价格还便宜。
And it's addictive and it's cheap.
所以我们正处于一个非常困难的境地。
So we're in a very difficult situation.
而正是这种状况，促使GLP类药物试图去解决。
And that's the situation that, you know, the GLP ones are trying to solve.
我们陷入了困境。
We're in a pickle.
我们确实陷入了困境。
We are in a pickle.
对于我们在糖分和葡萄糖方面所面临的困境，你持乐观态度吗？
Are you optimistic about the pickle we're in as it relates to sugar and glucose?
我必须说yes，因为我在读者身上看到的转变真的令人鼓舞。
I have to say yes because the amount of transformations I see in my readers is really encouraging.
人们正在重新夺回健康，掌控自己的身体，重新理解食物。
You know, people are reclaiming their health, getting power over it, understanding food again.
但我们还有很多工作要做。
But we've got a lot of work to do.
我可以从基层开始教育人们这些方法，但我们同样需要系统性的改变。
And I can do my work educating people from the ground up on these hacks, but we also need systemic change.
我们需要政策。
We need policy.
我们需要政府参与进来，找到方法让健康食品更易获得。
We need governments to get involved, and we need to find ways to make healthier food.
我们现在正在摧毁整个群体。
We're just killing the population right now.
这真的太糟糕了。
It's really terrible.
谈到高血糖饮食的一些后果，你之前在讨论糖化时提到过其中之一就是衰老。
So talking about some of the consequences of a high glucose diet, one of them you mentioned earlier when we were talking about glycation is aging.
有没有人做过研究，证明高血糖饮食与加速衰老有关联或相关性？
Has anyone ever done any research to prove that a high glucose diet is associated or correlated with increased or accelerated aging?
我的意思是，是的，因为我们看到吃糖最多的人患的疾病也最多。
I mean, yes, because we see that the people who eat the most sugar get the most diseases.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们看到的是相关性，但并不是像临床试验那样的确凿证据。
So we see correlations, but they're not like a clinical trial.
你不可能取两组人群，说好，所有人都30岁。
You can't take two populations and say, okay, everybody's 30 years old.
我们给这一半人提供健康、不会引起血糖飙升的饮食，而给另一半人每天造成血糖飙升。
We're gonna give this half a healthy, no glucose spike diet and this half glucose spikes every single day.
然后等到他们80岁的时候，看看哪一组衰老得更快。
Then we'll see when they're 80, you know, which group has aged faster.
我们不能这么做。
We can't do that.
这不道德。
That's unethical.
所以我们只能观察相关性。
So we have to look at correlations.
我们发现，如果你的血糖和胰岛素水平很高，就更容易患上心脏病、痴呆、抑郁等疾病。
And we see things like if you have really high glucose levels, high insulin levels, you're more likely to get heart disease, dementia, depression, etcetera, etcetera.
我们有相关性研究，并且了解糖基化的机制。
We have correlative studies and we understand the mechanism of the glycation.
那衰老的表观迹象呢？
What about the superficial signs of aging?
皱纹？
Wrinkles?
哦，像皱纹吗？
Oh, like a wrinkles?
许多护肤品实际上是从外到内针对糖化反应的。
A lot of skin care products actually target glycation from the outside in.
它们会在皮肤上添加抗氧化剂以减少糖化反应。
They'll put antioxidants on your skin to reduce glycation.
如果你在护肤品领域，你会到处看到关于糖化的讨论。
If you're in the skin care world, you'll see glycation mentioned everywhere.
但它们没有做的是，没有去研究如何从内到外减少糖化反应，而我认为这才是更有趣的方向。
What they don't do is they don't look at how to reduce glycation from the inside out, which is what I think is more interesting.
这通过饮食实现。
And it's through food.
通过降低你的血糖水平，你就能减少糖化反应。
By reducing your glucose levels, you reduce glycation.
这就像A到B一样直接。
It's just like a A to B.
非常简单。
It's very simple.
所以，如果我想延缓皱纹的产生，我就应该控制我的血糖水平？
So if I want to stave off wrinkles, then I should keep my glucose levels down?
是的。
Yes.
你还应该避免吸烟，使用防晒霜等等。
And you should also avoid smoking, wear sunscreen, etc.
但从饮食角度来看，你需要注意的是减少血糖的骤升。
But in terms of your diet, what you want to focus on is focus on reducing glucose spikes.
是的，完全正确。
Yeah, absolutely.
那关于痤疮和其他皮肤问题呢？
What about things like acne and skin conditions?
这些更多是炎症性疾病。
Those are more inflammatory based diseases.
所以湿疹、银屑病、痤疮、玫瑰痤疮，都是体内炎症的表现。
So eczema, psoriasis, acne, rosacea, those are expressions of inflammation going on within your body.
我喜欢把皮肤看作是体内状况的镜子。
And I like to think of the skin as a mirror to what's going on within.
因此，炎症可以通过许多不同的因素发生。
And so inflammation can happen through loads of different factors.
但其中一个因素就是血糖飙升。
But one of the factors is glucose spikes.
血糖飙升会损害线粒体。
So glucose spikes hurt on mitochondria.
这会引发炎症。
That creates inflammation.
然后血糖飙升会导致糖基化，进而引发炎症和胰岛素释放。
Then glucose spikes lead to glycation, which also leads to inflammation, and insulin release.
过多的胰岛素也会增加炎症。
And a lot of insulin also increases inflammation.
因此，每一次血糖飙升，都会加剧体内的炎症。
So with every glucose spike, you're increasing inflammation within your body.
如果你容易患上这些皮肤问题，那么你只是稍微一刺激就可能引发或加剧症状。
And if you're susceptible to any of these skin conditions, you can have flare ups or increase their intensity very simply.
这是否也会影响我的荷尔蒙平衡？
And does it also have an impact on my hormonal balance?
我现在所处的年龄段，很多朋友都在尝试要孩子。
I am a lot of my friends I'm in that age range now where a lot of my friends are trying to have children.
是的。
Yeah.
关于多囊卵巢综合征、生育能力，还有男性精子质量这些话题，讨论非常多，葡萄糖与荷尔蒙、生育能力之间有联系吗？
And there's so much talk around things like polycystic ovary syndrome and fertility and, you know, infertility in men with their sperm and all these kinds Is of there a link between glucose and hormones and fertility?
有的。
Yes.
研究表明，胰岛素抵抗越严重——而胰岛素抵抗正是体内长期高胰岛素水平的结果——就越容易导致不孕。
So we have studies that show that the more insulin resistant you are, so insulin resistance is a consequence of just a lot of insulin in the body, the more likely you are to be infertile.
我们还知道，多囊卵巢综合征（PCOS）是女性不孕的主要原因之一，而其中约60%的病例也伴有胰岛素抵抗。
And then we also know that PCOS, so polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is one of the leading causes of infertility in women, we know that sixty percent of PCOS cases also are people who have insulin resistance.
这里存在关联。
There's a link there.
胰岛素抵抗会增加患多囊卵巢综合征的风险。
Insulin resistance, you're more likely to have PCOS.
我们还知道，当女性体内胰岛素水平过高时，会向卵巢发出信号，促使它们产生更多睾酮。
And we also know that when there's a lot of insulin in a female body, it tells your ovaries to produce more testosterone.
睾酮是男性性激素。
Testosterone is the male sex hormone.
如果体内男性性激素过多，就会引发问题。
And if you have too much male sex hormone in the body, that causes issues.
它可能导致痤疮、脱发或面部毛发增多，并且会停止月经。
It can cause acne, it can cause balding or hair growth on the face, and it can stop your period.
通常，当有人被诊断为多囊卵巢综合征时，医生会开避孕药，这表面上看似乎合理，但实际上并未解决根本问题。
Now often when somebody has PCOS, they're given the birth control pill, which kind of makes sense on the surface, but really doesn't solve anything.
服用避孕药时，你只是在摄入外源性雌激素。
What happens when you take the birth control pill is that you're just ingesting female hormones.
这就是避孕药的作用。
That's what the pill is.
它含有女性激素。
It's female hormones.
所以如果你的睾酮水平很高，突然摄入女性激素，体内的平衡就会恢复到一个还可以的状态。
So if you have high testosterone, all of a sudden you're ingesting female hormones, so the balance kind of comes back to an okay situation.
你体内睾酮过多的症状就会消失。
Your symptoms of excess testosterone go away.
但一旦你停止服用避孕药，高水平的睾酮依然存在。
But as soon as you stop the pill, the high testosterone is still there.
所以很多人停药后想怀孕，却发现：‘咦，我怎么没来月经了？’
So a lot of people stop the pill trying to have a baby and they're like, oh, I don't have my period.
我有PCOS。
I have PCOS.
我该怎么办？
What do I do?
所以我给的一个建议是，如果你有PCOS，先关注你的血糖波动。
So one recommendation I have is if you have PCOS, look at your glucose spikes first.
这并不是唯一的原因，但很多时候，当你调节好血糖和胰岛素水平后，PCOS的症状就会消失。
It's not the only reason this can happen, but very often when you fix your glucose and insulin levels, the symptoms of PCOS go away.
几周前我在Twitter上看到一个说法，试图论证血糖和胰岛素反应是导致PCOS的原因。
I saw something on Twitter a couple of weeks ago that was trying to make the case that glucose and insulin responses are the reason for PCOS.
是的。
Yeah.
有些人就是这么认为的。
Some people believe that.
完全对。
Totally.
而且，你知道，这是一个非常有争议的话题。
And, you know, it's a very politically charged topic.
有些人相信你患有PCOS。
Some people believe you have PCOS.
这是遗传的。
It's genetic.
你对此无能为力。
You can't do anything about it.
其他人认为，不，不，这是一种代谢疾病。
Other people believe, no, no, it's a metabolic disease.
它是一组由高胰岛素引起的症状。
It's a cluster of symptoms that come from high insulin.
我支持这种观点。
I'm in that camp.
但确实有一些案例，有人患有PCOS却没有高胰岛素水平。
But there are some cases where somebody has PCOS and doesn't have high insulin levels.
那么他们该归入哪一类呢？
So what category do they go into?
关于PCOS，史蒂文，它根本不是一个真正的疾病。
The thing with PCOS, Steven, is that it's not a real condition.
这就像一组症状的集合。
It's like a cluster of symptoms.
所以有些人患有多囊卵巢综合征，会有卵巢囊肿和脱发。
So some people could have PCOS and have cystic ovaries and balding.
另一个人患有多囊卵巢综合征，可能会有月经不调和下巴长毛。
Somebody else could have PCOS and have missed periods and hair growth on their chin.
所以它可能表现为多种形式。
So it can take different forms.
因此，我认为我们开始意识到多囊卵巢综合征存在不同类型，其中一些属于胰岛素抵抗类别。
So I think we're starting to understand there are variations of PCOS, and some are in the insulin resistant category.
你有没有见过女性逆转多囊卵巢综合征的症状？
Have you seen a woman reverse her PCOS symptoms?
非常多。
Tons.
在我的第二本书中，我进行了一项研究。
In my second book, I ran a study.
有三位女性参加了我的HACS计划，仅仅一个月后就恢复了月经，并在当月成功怀孕，只靠我的这些方法。
Three females who were in the program doing my HACS for just a month got their period back and were able to get pregnant in that month just with my hacks.
我经常看到PCOS症状被逆转的情况。
I see PCOS reversal all the time.
所以你所说的这三位女性用来逆转PCOS症状的那些方法，具体是什么？
So these hacks that you you say those three women used to help reverse their their PCOS symptoms, What are the hacks?
哦，那些方法啊。
Oh, the hacks.
她们具体做了哪些？
What are the ones that they did?
她们做的包括：咸味早餐、每天一次醋、先吃蔬菜、饭后活动。
So the ones they did were savory breakfast, vinegar once a day, veggie starters, and moving after eating.
这些是我在第二本书里提出的十种方法中最重要的四种，属于我设计的四周方法的核心。
And these are four hacks that are the four most important ones of my 10 hacks that I've put together in the four week method, that second book.
如果你坚持这几种方法，其实根本不需要改变你其他的饮食习惯。
And if you do these hacks, you don't actually have to change anything else that you're eating.
你不需要戒掉任何东西。
You don't have to cut out anything.
你只需要把这些加进去。
You just add these in.
我喜欢把它们看作是随身携带的小仙女，每天时不时地用一下，这样你就能在依然享受最爱食物的同时，以极低的精力成本减少血糖波动。
I like to see them like little fairy godmothers that you have in your pocket and you just put throughout your day like this, and you're able to reduce your glucose spikes while still eating what you love in a very low efforts kind of way.
我相信这些技巧应该像刷牙、涂防晒霜、喝足够的水、吃咸味早餐、饭后活动一样被看待。
And I believe these hacks should be seen like you would see brush your teeth, wear sunscreen, drink enough water, have a savory breakfast, move after eating.
吃咸味早餐。
Have a savory breakfast.
所以你是说人们早餐不该吃糖吗？
So are you saying people shouldn't be eating sugar for breakfast?
对。
Correct.
咸味早餐的概念源于一个简单的认知：如果你吃一顿导致血糖大幅飙升的早餐，就会以多种不良方式影响你的身体。
So the concept of a savory breakfast comes from the simple realization that if you have a breakfast that creates a big glucose spike, you're affecting your body in many bad ways.
首先，这会导致你当天大脑功能不佳。
First of all, you're leading to your brain not functioning too well during that day.
这会导致思维迟钝。
It's leading to brain fog.
它可能让你有点困惑。
It can make you a bit confused.
其次，它会让你感到疲倦。
Second, it makes you tired.
它会增加你一整天的食欲。
It increases cravings throughout the day.
它还会使你全天的血糖水平失衡。
And it also deregulates your glucose levels for the rest of the day.
你的早餐非常关键。
Your breakfast is very powerful.
如果你早餐血糖飙升，你一整天都会经历血糖过山车。
If you have a glucose spike at breakfast, your whole day is a glucose roller coaster.
所以，史蒂文，你想要做的是总是吃一顿咸味早餐，以保持你的血糖水平稳定。
So what you want to do, Steven, is always have a savory breakfast that keeps your glucose levels steady.
咸味早餐是什么意思？
A savory breakfast is what?
它以蛋白质为核心。
It's based around protein.
鸡蛋、鱼、肉、豆腐、坚果、乳制品、蛋白粉、昨晚的剩菜。
Eggs, fish, meat, tofu, nuts, dairy, protein powder, dinner leftovers.
明白了吗？
Okay?
蛋白质。
Protein.
早上摄入蛋白质非常重要。
It's really important to have protein in the morning.
然后再加上一些健康脂肪，比如橄榄油、黄油、牛油果。
Then you add some healthy fats, olive oil, butter, avocado.
然后，如果你想要调味，可以加一点淀粉，比如一片面包，或者一些土豆。
And then if you want, for taste, you can add a bit of starch, like a piece of bread, for example, or some potatoes.
重要的是，咸味早餐不含任何甜食。
Importantly, a savory breakfast contains nothing sweet.
不要吃麦片、松饼、橙汁、格兰诺拉麦片、果泥，这些都不行。
No cereal, no muffins, no orange juice, no granola, no fruit puree, none of that.
这非常关键。
It's really key.
我咖啡里的糖呢？
Sugar in my coffee?
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
如果你想要糖，那就把它当作餐后甜点，在午餐后或晚餐后吃。
If you want sugar, have it as dessert after a meal, after lunch or after dinner.
因为午餐后和晚餐后，你的消化系统里已经有很多食物了。
Cause after your lunch and after your dinner, you have lots of food already in the digestive system.
所以之后摄入的任何糖分对你的血糖水平影响都会更小。
So any sugar you put in afterwards is gonna impact your glucose levels less.
你之前说过，如果我在早餐吃甜食，我的血糖就会像过山车一样起伏。
You said that if I have something sweet for my breakfast, I'm then gonna be on a glucose roller coaster.
是的。
Yeah.
为什么？
Why?
因为血糖会飙升，然后胰岛素分泌，血糖就会下降。
Because glucose spike, then insulin comes out, and your glucose drop.
然后你的血糖会降低。
Then your glucose are low.
这时，你会变得非常饿。
Here, you get really hungry.
你会有很强的食欲。
You have a lot of cravings.
当我们的血糖水平下降时，科学家发现这会增强大脑中渴望中心的活动。
When our glucose levels are dropping, scientists have shown it increases the activity of the craving center in our brain.
所以它会告诉你：史蒂文，吃点糖吧。
So it goes like, Steven, eat some sugar.
而你无法控制这种冲动。
And you can't control that.
那你能怎么办呢？
So what do you do?
你会去拿更多的糖。
You reach for more sugar.
砰。
Bam.
另一个血糖飙升。
Another glucose spike.
然后你就这样一整天都持续这样。
And then you just continue your whole day like that.
所以如果你一整天开始就经历血糖飙升，你就把自己逼入了死角，很难从这种过山车般的状态中摆脱。
So you sort of put yourself into a corner if you start your day with a spike, and it's really difficult to get off that roller coaster.
这种过山车效应会持续好几天吗？
Does that roller coaster last across days?
好问题。
Good question.
通常来说，到了晚上，身体会有所恢复。
Generally, during the night, it sort of resets.
在我的血糖检测中，我发现当我睡觉时，血糖会趋于平稳，夜间会降到相当低的水平。
In my glucose test, I saw that when I go to sleep, it kind of flattens out, kind of goes quite low at nighttime.
不过，我有个非科学的观察：如果我现在吃了胡萝卜蛋糕，那我今晚晚餐时也很可能还想吃胡萝卜蛋糕。
However, I've got this unscientific observation where if I start if I had a carrot cake now, there's a high probability that I'd probably wanna have a carrot cake by dinner time tonight as well.
是的。
Yeah.
到了第二天早上醒来，我更有可能又想吃胡萝卜蛋糕。
And then when I wake up the next day, I probably I'm gonna be more likely to go for carrot cake again.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果我把视野放得更广一点，比如看一整年十二个月，可能会出现一些零星的几周，中间隔几个月，然后又突然爆发一两周，疯狂放纵，那段时间我发现自己真的很难连续几天不伸手去拿这些东西。
And I if I if I zoomed out on my life, say the whole twelve months of a year, there will be maybe, like, this little week or two in clusters where maybe there's a couple of months in between and then this this two week fucking splurge again, where I find it really hard not to reach for something across multiple days.
对。
Yeah.
现在我不确定这是不是我脑子里想出来的。
Now I'm not sure if this is in my head.
我觉得有几件事在同时发生。
I think there's a few things going on.
第一，味道非常上瘾。
One, the taste is really addictive.
所以你会对那种口感和多巴胺产生依赖。
So you get addicted to getting that taste and getting that dopamine.
别忘了，你的大脑会经历多巴胺的激增。
Don't forget there's the dopamine rush in your brain.
嗯。
Mhmm.
第二，每次血糖升高，你实际上都在扰乱你的饥饿激素。
Second, with every glucose spike, you're actually deregulating your hunger hormones.
所以你会产生更多渴望，感到更饿，而且没错，这种情况完全可以持续好几天。
So you get you have more cravings, you're hungrier, and yes, this can totally last for a few days.
而且我认为第三点，如果你家里放了好几天的胡萝卜蛋糕，你可能只是更有可能去拿它，因为它就在那里。
And I think thirdly, if you have the carrot cake at home for a few days, maybe you're just more likely to reach for it because it's there.
但我对你的感受感同身受。
But I feel similarly to you.
我会经历这样的阶段，尤其是当我特别忙，无法一直坚持所有那些健康方法的时候，我会吃很多糖，然后这种情况会持续，直到我说：好了。
I have these phases, especially if I'm really busy and I can't do all the hacks all the time where I'm eating a bunch of sugar, and then it lasts until I say, okay.
停止。
Stop.
重新回到那些健康方法上。
Back on the hacks.
我会坚持两天这些方法，然后就又恢复正常了。
And I do the hacks for two days, and then I'm good again.
我也是这样。
That's the same with me.
对。
Yeah.
但我也发现，如果我进行一次高强度的锻炼
But also, I find that if I do a really big workout
是的。
Yeah.
对我而言，打破这种循环很有帮助。
For me, it helps to break that cycle.
所以这个周末，我确实处于一种循环中，比如我没有去吃甜食，而是吃了很多吐司当早餐，或者摄入了很多碳水化合物。
So if I this weekend, I did a real I was I think I was in that cycle of, like, I wasn't reaching for sugar as in, like, something sweet.
我吃了很多吐司当早餐，或者摄入了很多碳水化合物。
I was reaching for, like, us having a lot of, like, toast with my breakfast or us having, like, carbs.
然后我进行了一次高强度的锻炼，那一刻我最不想吃的就是任何含碳水化合物或葡萄糖的东西。
And then I did a really big workout, and the last thing I wanted was anything with carbs in or glucose.
我认为这也在大脑中发生，你知道，因为你正在重新平衡那些荷尔蒙，多巴胺，锻炼让你分泌内啡肽，所以你不再仅仅依赖糖分来获得愉悦感。
I think it's also in the brain, you know, because you're rebalancing those hormones, that dopamine, you're getting endorphins from the workout, so you're not seeking all that pleasure from just sugar.
明白了。
Okay.
我认为，如果你一直处于只从糖分中获取多巴胺的循环中，这就会变得上瘾。
I think if you're in a cycle where all you're just getting dopamine from sugar, it just becomes addictive.
你必须在生活中找到其他方式，让你的大脑感到愉悦，而不依赖糖分。
And you have to do stuff in your life that allows you to feel good in your brain without having that sugar.
所以也许我从锻炼中获得了多巴胺，完全没错。
So maybe I got the dopamine from the workout Totally.
因此我稍微转变了，是的。
And so I kinda shifted Yeah.
多巴胺的来源。
The source of dopamine.
所以第一个小技巧就是
So that was the first hack, which is the
咸味早餐。
Savory breakfast.
非常关键。
Super key.
顺便说一句，如果你只做一个改变，就做这个。
By the way, if you just do one hack, do this one.
这简直是颠覆性的改变，一顿咸味早餐能让你饱足四个小时，这已经很长了。
It is a complete game changer, and a savory breakfast should keep you satiated for four hours, which is a long time.
大多数人吃完早餐两小时后又饿了。
Most people get hungry again two hours after they have breakfast.
所以要确保早餐摄入足够的蛋白质，让你饱足四小时。
So make sure you're having enough protein in your breakfast to stay full for four hours.
好的。
Okay.
关于这个，如果我禁食呢？
On that, what if I fast?
完全没问题。
Totally fine.
确保你一天中的第一餐也是咸味的。
Make sure the first meal of your day is also savory.
所以它可以是早上8点。
So it can be at 8AM.
也可以是下午4点。
It can be at 4PM.
我不在意，只要你吃的第一样东西是咸味的就行。
I do not care as long as the first thing that you eat is something savory.
因为当你处于空腹状态时，你的消化系统非常空且敏感。
Because when you're fasted, your digestive system is super empty and sensitive.
所以无论你是在早上刚睡醒后吃东西，还是在禁食两周后吃东西，食物都会迅速进入你的血液。
So whatever you give it, whether it's in the morning after just sleeping or whether it's after a two week fast, is gonna go really quickly into your bloodstream.
因此你必须谨慎，确保不要给身体提供葡萄糖。
So you have to be cautious and make sure you're not giving your body glucose.
否则血糖会急剧飙升。
Otherwise, big spike.
你
Do you
觉得禁食，比如间歇性禁食，对你有好处吗？
think fasting is good for you, intermittent fasting?
我觉得这需要具体情况具体分析。
I think it's nuanced.
我认为我所看到的是，男性从中受益的效果要好得多。
I think what I've seen is that in men, it just works way better.
对于女性来说，它可能会打乱你的荷尔蒙。
In females, it can kind of mess up your hormones.
你需要谨慎选择何时禁食。
You have to be a bit judicious about when you fast.
而且我们也要记住，朋友们，禁食是对身体的一种压力。
And we also have to remember, guys, fasting is a stressor on the body.
这是一种有益的压力，但它确实是一种压力。
It is a good stressor, but it is a stressor.
所以如果你工作压力很大，要照顾孩子，每天喝咖啡，每周做三次高强度间歇训练，然后去桑拿，再泡冰水，接着还禁食，你的身体肯定会崩溃。
So if you have an intense job, kids to take care of, you drink coffee, you have, you know, three times a week, do HIIT cardio, then you do a sauna, then you do a cold plunge, then you fast, your body is gonna freak the fuck out.
你需要像控制剂量一样，以身体能承受的方式安排这些压力源。
You have to, like, dose these stressors in a way that is gonna be manageable for your body.
我见过很多女性做了我刚刚提到的所有这些事，然后她们说：‘我月经没了，但我搞不懂为什么。’
I see lots of women who do all those things I just mentioned, and then they're like, I don't have my period, and I don't understand it.
我感觉不太好。
I don't feel good.
我觉得你的身体已经崩溃了。
I'm like, your body is freaking out.
放松点。
Like, relax.
你不能一直给自己施加这么多压力。
You can't be putting all these stressors on yourself all the time.
所以我度假的时候会禁食。
So I fast when I'm on vacation.
那你做哪种禁食？
And what kind of fasting do you do?
我喜欢跳过一餐，比如跳过晚餐或者跳过早餐。
I like we'll skip a meal, we'll skip dinner, we'll skip breakfast.
这有助于身体清理死亡细胞，非常有帮助。
And it just helps your body clean up its dead cells, it's really helpful.
但我们必须记住，禁食也是一种压力。
But we have to remember that fasting is a stressor.
它有很多好处。
It has great benefits.
但你并不需要通过禁食来保持健康。
But you don't have to fast in order to be healthy.
同样重要的是要关注你吃的是什么。
It's very important to also look at what you're eating.
因为如果你每天禁食十六小时，然后却只吃垃圾食品，这对你的身体并没有帮助。
Because if you're fasting sixteen hours a day and then you're just eating junk food, it's not gonna be helpful to your body.
我们必须将这两者结合起来。
We have to do both in combination.
你会禁食吗？
Do you fast?
自然而然地。
Naturally.
是的。
Yeah.
所以今天我还没吃东西。
So I haven't eaten today.
现在几点了？
What time are we?
现在是凌晨一点。
We're 01:00.
我会等到
And I won't eat until
你喝过咖啡了吗？
You've had a coffee?
我今天早上喝过咖啡了。
I had a coffee this morning.
是的。
Yeah.
但我不会吃东西，直到，呃，下午四点或五点，可能等我回到办公室之类的之后吧。
But I won't eat until, what, 4PM, 5PM, which will be probably, you know, after I get back to the office and stuff like
是的。
that.
很好。
Good.
我感觉很好。
I feel fine.
这就是重点。
So that's the thing.
对吧？
Right?
我的建议是，如果你感觉很棒，那就没问题。
My recommendation is if you feel great Yeah.
太好了。
Fab.
如果你感到压力大、头晕或觉得吃力，那就别做。
If you feel stressed out, if you feel lightheaded, if it feels hard then don't do it.
你的身体承受不了。
Your body can't handle it.
我根本不会想到要吃东西。
Just doesn't cross my mind to eat.
我不明白人们是怎么吃饭的。
I don't know how people eat.
太惊人了。
It's amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
那就去做吧。
Then go for it.
好好生活吧，老兄。
Live your life, man.
好好生活吧，史蒂文。
Live your life, Steven.
那热量限制呢？
What about calorie restriction?
你经常考虑这个吗？
Do you think much about that?
我的意思是，它确实有效。
I mean, it works.
对吧？
Right?
如果你摄入的热量更少，你就会减重。
If you eat fewer calories, you're gonna lose weight.
但这是我最喜欢的一个故事。
But this is one of my favorite stories.
你知道热量是怎么被发明出来的吗？
Do you know how calories were invented?
也许吧。
Maybe.
好吧。
Okay.
他们把它放进一个盒子里然后烧掉？
They, like, put it in a box and burnt it?
他们把
They put
我跟你说过那种食物。
some I told food you that.
是的。
Yes.
所以过去测量热量时，你想测量什么食物的热量？
So back in the day, to measure calories, what do you wanna measure the calorie of?
告诉我一件事。
Tell me something.
说说食物吧。
Tell me about food.
胡萝卜蛋糕。
Carrot cake.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
所以如果回到过去，比如，
So if we were back in the day, like,
一百年前，如果我们想测量你那块胡萝卜蛋糕的热量，我们会这么做。
a hundred years ago and we wanted to measure the calories in your carrot cake, here's what we would do.
我们会把胡萝卜蛋糕拿过来，放进一个盒子，然后把这个盒子放进一个装满水的水族箱里。
We would take the carrot cake, put it in a box, then put this box in an aquarium filled with water.
所以你有一个水族箱，里面是装着胡萝卜蛋糕的盒子。
So you have the aquarium, and then inside you have the box with the carrot cake.
然后我们会点燃小盒子里的胡萝卜蛋糕，并测量水族箱中水温上升了多少度。
Then we would light the carrot cake on fire inside the small box and measure by how many degrees the water in the aquarium increased in temperature.
所以我们只是在测量燃烧胡萝卜蛋糕时产生的热量。
So we're just measuring the heat that is created when we burn the carrot cake.
这就是我们测量卡路里的方式——通过燃烧食物时产生的热量多少。
That is how we measure calories, by how much heat is generated when you burn a food.
所以如果你在同一个盒子里放上三个牛油果，然后把它们烧掉，你可能会得到和之前相同的水温升高。
So if you were to put in that same box, I don't know, three avocados and you burnt them, you might get the same temperature increase in the water.
因此你可能会说，哦，这个胡萝卜蛋糕和这三个牛油果含有相同的卡路里。
So you might say, oh, this carrot cake and these three avocados have the same number of calories.
但卡路里这个概念的问题在于，它并没有真正告诉你食物里到底有什么。
But the thing is with the calorie thing, it's not actually telling you what's in the food.
它只是测量了燃烧时释放出的能量。
It's just measuring energy that dissipated when you burnt it.
它无法告诉你胡萝卜蛋糕会导致血糖飙升、引发炎症、加速衰老、刺激胰岛素分泌，而那三个牛油果却能让你保持稳定、感觉更好。
It's not telling you the carrot cake is gonna lead to a big glucose spike, gonna make you inflamed, age faster, release insulin, whereas the three avocados will keep you steady and feeling better.
所以两个人可以都吃2000卡路里的饮食。
So two people can be eating 2,000 calories diet.
一个人可以吃一种让血糖保持平稳的食物。
One person can be eating in a way that keeps their glucose nice and steady.
他们感觉良好，精力充沛，较少渴望食物，思维清晰，不会一直感到特别饿。
They feel good, good energy, fewer cravings, clear brain, not super hungry all the time.
另一个人则吃的是导致血糖飙升的食物，过得非常糟糕。
The other person can be eating just glucose spiking food, and they're having a terrible time.
他们一直感到饥饿。
They're hungry constantly.
他们有食欲冲动、脑雾和胰岛素分泌。
They have cravings, brain fog, insulin release.
所以卡路里很有趣，但并不是全部。
So calories are interesting, but they're not everything.
我们需要教人们关注食物中的分子成分。
We need to teach people about the molecules in their food.
我发现，如果你想减掉一些脂肪，试着吃得少一点，最简单的方法就是关注你的血糖水平，因为你的饥饿激素会自然地重新平衡，你会减少渴望，也更容易吃得少。
I find that to be a much easier way to try to eat a bit less if you're trying to lose some fat is to just focus on your glucose levels because naturally, your hunger hormones will rebalance, you'll have fewer cravings, and it's much easier to eat less.
你有没有收到过某个故事或案例，是关于有人遵循你的建议后，让你印象特别深刻的？
Is there a a story that you've been sent or a case study from someone that's followed your work, that stuck with you?
有没有人通过理解自己的血糖水平，从而在生活中发生了巨大转变？
Someone that's understood their glucose and had a big shift in their life?
我想象这有成千上万例，但
I imagine there's thousands, but
是的。
Yeah.
有很多，非常多。
There's many, many.
对我来说，主要有两点。
I think there's two things for me.
一个是关于怀孕的故事，因为我觉得这特别感人，我有很多朋友都经历过艰难的生育过程。
There's the the pregnancy stories, because I think that's so touching because I've had many friends go through difficult fertility journeys.
听到那些本来准备接受强烈生育治疗的人，只是尝试了这种方法后就怀孕了，这让我很感动。
And to hear people who were about to embark on really intense fertility treatments and just tried this and then got pregnant.
我觉得这真的很棒。
I think that's really cool.
其次，我想说的是有一个人，他一生都患有糖尿病。
And then second, I think it's the people who there was this one guy, he's had diabetes his whole life.
他五十多岁了，一直在服用大量药物，一直以为自己会失去一条腿和视力。
He's like in his 50s on lots of medication and just thought he would lose a leg and lose his vision.
当你长期患有二型糖尿病时，通常就会发生这种情况。
That's what happens when you have type two for a very long time.
但关键是，他的医生从未向他解释过他为什么会得糖尿病。
And the thing is his doctors had never explained to him why he had diabetes.
他们只是告诉他：吃这个药，打这个胰岛素。
They had just told him, take this pill and take this insulin.
他读了我的书后，终于明白了自己为什么会得糖尿病。
And he read my book and he understood why he got diabetes in the first place.
他尝试了那些方法。
And he did the hacks.
他在一年内逆转了二型糖尿病。
He was able to reverse his type two diabetes in one year.
他的所有医生都问：你是怎么做到的？
All his doctors were like, how did you do it?
你知道，医生们通常并不掌握这类信息。
You know, doctors don't often have this kind of information.
然后他给我发了一条很长的消息，说：现在我能亲眼看到孙子孙女的婚礼了，真的很感谢你。
And then he sent me a long message saying, now I'll be able to see my grandkids wedding, and I really thank you for that.
这太感人了。
It's so cute.
你知道吗？
You know?
我们都困在这样一个恶性循环里：周围充斥着有害的食物，让我们生病，却不知道如何摆脱。
We're all we're all stuck in this vicious cycle of having this toxic food around us that's making us sick but not understanding how to get out of it.
每个人都希望健康。
And everybody wants to be healthy.
那个男人吃的东西，他以为是对健康有益的。
That man, he was eating stuff that he thought would be good for him.
他吃的是低卡路里的米饼、水果奶昔、低脂酸奶，还有这些东西，试图变得更健康。
He was eating, like, the low calorie rice cakes and the fruit smoothies and the low fat yogurts and all these things, trying to be healthier.
但如果你没有正确的信息，就无法真正做出改变。
But if you don't have the right information, you can't actually make a change.
你会对父母说什么呢？
What would you say to parents?
这其实很有趣，因为过去几个月我观察了很多新手父母，他们非常在意孩子吃东西，以至于常常会给孩子吃含糖量很高的食物。
It's it's really interesting because I I've had the experience of watching a lot of early parents over the last couple of months, and they care so much about their kids just eating at something that often they'll give them something that is high in glucose.
这有关系吗？
Does it matter?
你知道，有时候人们看到孩子就会想，哎，他们只是孩子。
You know, because sometimes people look at kids and go, well, they're a kid.
他们觉得这不会对他们产生影响。
They'll kind of it won't have an impact on them.
他们迟早会长大的，到时候自然就好了。
They'll kind of grow out of it.
我们以后会确保他们吃得健康。
Well, we'll make sure that they eat healthy later.
我们现在只需要确保他们吃点东西就行。
We just need to make sure they eat something now.
听我说。
Listen.
我们曾经认为2型糖尿病是成年人的疾病，但现在五岁的孩子也会得。
We used to think type two diabetes was a disease reserved for adults, and now five year olds get it.
帮助孩子吃得健康非常重要，这样他们才能为身体打下健康的基础。
It's very important to help your kids eat well so that they set up their body in a healthy way.
我常听到有人说：‘是的，杰西，我知道我该给孩子早上吃鸡蛋，但他们一直吵着要吃麦片，我实在没法拒绝。'
One thing that I hear is, yeah, Jessie, I know I should be giving my kids eggs in the morning, but they just keep begging for the cereal, and I just I can't say no.
你知道吗？
You know?
他们就是不放手。
They they won't they won't let go.
我不得不给他们。
I have to give it to them.
我说，如果他们向你讨要香烟呢？
And I say, what if they were begging you for cigarettes?
你会给他们香烟吗？
Would you give them the cigarettes?
其实，你并不一定要给孩子们吃这种食物。
Like, you don't actually have to give your kids this food.
这当然很难，但如果你把它当作优先事项，你完全可以做到。
It's hard for sure, but if it's a priority for you, you can totally do it.
当然。
Absolutely.
而且我认为树立榜样实际上很重要。
And I think it's important to set an example, actually.
因为如果你自己吃麦片、喝橙汁，你的孩子根本不会认真对待你。
Because if you're having cereal and orange juice, it's gonna be really hard for your kids to take you seriously.
喂，爸爸，你认真点行不行。
Like, come on, dad.
你知道的，闭嘴吧。
Like, you know, shut up.
你觉得给孩子喝橙汁怎么样？
What do you think of giving kids orange juice?
天哪。
Oh my god.
这太糟糕了。
It's terrible.
最差劲了。
It's the worst.
这太糟糕了。
It's it's it's terrible.
这是大量的糖分冲击。
It's a big rush of sugar.
它会影响孩子的行为，比如发脾气、渴望糖分以及血糖骤降。
It can affect it can affect behavior, you know, tantrums and sugar cravings and the sugar lows.
我的意思是，不行。
I mean, no.
这太糟糕了。
It's terrible.
这让我心碎。
It breaks my heart.
我心想，天啊。
I'm like, wow.
这些小身体现在一点都不开心。
Those little bodies are not happy right now.
你知道吗，现在有这么多父母在听。
You know, there's so many parents that are listening right now.
我知道。
I know.
你根本不懂。
Like, you don't fucking get it.
你们两个没孩子的人更好。
You two childless better.
完全对。
Totally.
所以，史蒂文，等我有了孩子，我真的很想写一本关于这个的书，因为我觉得我们可以教父母很多关于如何喂养孩子的知识。
And that's why, Steven, you know, when I have kids, totally wanna write a book about that because I think there's lots of stuff we can teach parents about how to feed their kids.
说这些话对我来说太容易了。
It's too easy for me to say this stuff.
我没有孩子。
I don't have kids.
我不明白那是什么感觉。
I don't know how it is.
但我可以告诉你一件事。
But I can tell you one thing.
我家里绝对不会出现橙汁。
There will be no orange juice in my house.
绝对没有橙汁。
No orange juice.
我妈妈年轻时对健怡可乐上瘾，所以我们家从来不喝碳酸饮料。
Like my mom my mom was addicted to Diet Coke when she was younger, so we never had soda in our house.
从来不喝。
Never.
我现在非常讨厌碳酸饮料。
And I hate I hate soda now.
我根本不可能喝那些东西，因为我从来没接触过，也从来没学会喜欢它。
I would never be able to drink any of that stuff because it was never I never learned to like it.
所以，不要担心如果限制孩子所有的甜食，他们会暴饮暴食。
So don't be scared that your kid is gonna binge if you restrict all the sugary stuff.
我认为恰恰相反。
I think it's the opposite.
我认为如果你不给他们养成这些习惯，他们就不会有这种习惯。
I think if you don't give them the habits, they just won't have the habit.
我同意。
I do agree.
我们家里很少有甜食、碳酸饮料之类的东西。
We we, we didn't have many sweet things or fizzy drinks or anything in in the house.
我觉得小时候我挺反感的，因为去学校时你会看到那些东西。
And I think as a kid, I was resentful because you'd you'd go to school and you'd see those things.
你会向往它们，在学校里特别喜欢它们。
You'd you'd lean towards them and you'd love them at school.
但说实话，随着年龄增长，我完全能接受一直只喝白水。
But frankly, as I've grown older, I'm completely cool with just drinking water all the time.
这 partly 是因为家里本来就是这样的。
That's part partly because that's what we had in the house.
所以我和水的关系非常好。
So my relationship with water is pretty strong.
我懂你的感受。
I feel you.
但父母经常告诉我，当他们进行血糖调控、管理血糖水平时，能更平静地对待孩子，在孩子情绪失控或反复追问时保持更稳定的心态。
But, you know, one thing that parents do tell me is that when they do their glucose hacks and they manage their glucose levels, they're able to be more zen around their kids and sort of, you know, stay a bit more centered when their kids are freaking out or asking about something a lot.
他们的情绪更平稳，因此能为整个家庭做出更好的选择。
Their their mood is steadier so they can actually make better choices for the whole family.
他们的精力也更充沛。
They have a bit more stamina.
然后孩子们也进行这些调控，变得平静下来，整个家庭的整体氛围也更好了。
And then their kids do the hacks, and their kids get calmer, and then the family is just having a better time generally.
但这甚至可能对婚姻产生重大影响。
But it can really impact even a marriage.
我得跟你讲一个关于已婚夫妇的精彩研究。
There's a great study I have to tell you about that was looking at married couples.
他们招募了300对已婚夫妇。
So they recruited 300 married couples.
这些科学家真了不起。
And bless these scientists.
他们简直太疯狂了。
They're just insane.
他们招募了300对已婚夫妇。
So they recruited 300 married couples.
他们给每对夫妻中的每个人发了一个代表配偶的巫毒娃娃。
They gave each person in the marriage a voodoo doll representing their spouse.
如果你已婚，就会有一个代表你丈夫或妻子的巫毒娃娃。
So if you're in a marriage, you have a voodoo doll representing your husband or your wife.
科学家们要求参与者在接下来六周内，每次配偶让他们感到烦扰时，就在代表对方的巫毒娃娃上扎一根针。
Scientists then asked the people to put a pin in the voodoo doll representing their spouse every time their spouse annoyed them for six weeks.
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