我遇见了一个与世隔绝的部落：他们杀害了我的朋友！

这就是我想讲述的故事。

And that's the story that I'm trying to tell.

这正是我存在的全部意义。

That's the whole reason for my existence.

这就是我每天醒来后所做的一切的原因。

That's why I that's what I wake up and do every day.

我能感觉到，你真的以一种非常个人化的方式承担了这份责任。

And you've really taken on that responsibility in a very personal way, I can tell.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

有一个时刻，我记得，因为我从小在布鲁克林长大，后来我们在新泽西住了一段时间，接着搬到了哈德逊河谷。

There's a there's a point where, you know, I remember because you grow up I mean, I was born in Brooklyn and then we you know, I grew up in Jersey for a while and then we moved to the Hudson Valley.

但当你每年花几个月时间深入亚马逊，带着伤痕和故事回来——比如美洲豹的气息就在你颈后，你独自外出后归来，再突然站在烧烤派对上与人交谈时，一切都不一样了。

But when you start you start going to the Amazon for months and months and months out of the year and you come back with scars and stories where a jaguar is breathing on your neck and you you go out on a solo and you come back and then suddenly standing and making conversation at a barbecue feels different.

这简直就像我想象的那样，我有很多退伍军人朋友，你几乎会对那种行动上瘾，同时也会对团队上瘾。

It's it's almost like I imagine I have a lot of veteran friends and sort of you you almost get addicted to the action And then you also get addicted to the team.

你知道，塞巴斯蒂安·杨格写过关于社群、部落以及使命的需求。

You know, Sebastian Younger writes about this, about the need for community, the tribe, and sort of the mission.

我认为，这就是当今人们所缺失的东西——我们已经与宗教、社群以及与他人直接的联系脱节了。

And I think that that's one thing that people are missing today where they don't you know, we've been disassociated from religion and community and immediate sort of connection with other humans.

那么，除此之外还有什么？

And so then, well then what else is there?

你该如何找到你存在的方向？

How do you how do you where where to what do you more your existence?

你的目标是什么？

What do you what's your purpose?

你每天醒来是为了做什么？

What do you wake up and do every day?

所以我觉得在过去，我们必须抵御外部世界，对抗敌对的群体，甚至只是为家人提供生活所需。

And so I think in the old days it was like, we have to defend ourselves from the outside world, from warring communities, even just providing for your family.

我们每天都要取水。

We have to bring water every day.

我们每天都要砍柴。

We have to chop wood every day.

我们得想办法活下去。

We have to figure out how to survive.

而今天，当我在这里时，我醒来发现冰箱里有水。

And today, I mean, when I'm here I wake up and I go, well, there's water in the fridge.

所以我不用再做这些了。

So I don't have to do that.

空调开着，我就想，好吧，我来刷会儿手机吧。

And I'm like, the air conditioner is on and I'm like, I guess I'll check my phone.

所以，正如你所说，我觉得我们不知不觉中已经远离了我们本该适应的生活方式。

And so I, you know, I think we have, like you said, become somehow we've gotten really far away from what we are built for.

当你进入野外时，其中一件美好的事情发生了——无论什么样的野外，它都会开始改变你。

And one of the beautiful things that happens when you go into the wild, and this can be any wild, is that it starts to change you.

于是你走进野外，开始捡起木柴并扔出去。

And so you go into the wild and you start picking up logs and throwing them.

你开始劈柴。

You start splitting firewood.

第一天你的手上就会起茧子。

The first day you're going to have calluses on your hands.

但几周后，你的手就会变得粗糙有力。

But then after a few weeks you're going to have tough hands.

你开始赤脚走路，也是同样的道理。

You start walking barefoot, same thing.

阳光会使你的皮肤变厚、变黑、更具韧性。

The sun starts to make your skin thicker and tanner and more resilient.

接着雨水会进一步强化这一点，你的眼睛会变得越来越敏锐，开始更加留意你所听到的声音。

Then the rain will hammer that home and you start to get your eyes start to get sharper and you start to pay more attention to what you're hearing.

于是你经历整个转变过程，几乎变得像另一种动物。

And so you start going through this whole transformation where you start to be almost become a different animal.

你变成了丛林版的自己。

You become the jungle version yourself.

你变成了山地版的自己。

You become the mountain version of yourself.

你的双腿开始重新变得有力。

Your legs start to get strong again.

于是，野外让你经历了一场蜕变的考验，让你与环境紧密相连。

And so so the wild puts you through this gauntlet of transformation, and you become connected to your environment.

然后，那种疏离感会稍微缓解一些。

And then that feeling of disassociation tends to alleviate a little bit.

我听说大脑的这一部分也会发生变化。

I heard about this particular part of the brain that changes as well.

你谈到了蜕变。

You talked about transformation.

是的。

Yeah.

他们几年前发现了一个叫做前扣带回皮层的区域。

They discovered something not so many years ago called the anterior mid cingulate cortex.

安德鲁·休伯曼，我听过他说，他认为这是上个世纪神经科学最重要的发现之一。

Andrew Huberman, I heard him say that he thinks was one of the most important discoveries in neuroscience of the last century.

前扣带回皮层是大脑中位于情绪中枢和执行控制中心之间的一个区域，当你做艰难的事情时，它会逐渐增强。

The anterior mid cingulate cortex is a part of the brain sitting between your emotional brain and your executive control center that essentially grows when you do hard things.

不是当你做那些你本来就想做的事，而是当你做那些你不想做但依然去做的事时。

Not when you do things that, specifically when you do things that you don't want to do, but you do them anyway.

所以不是因为喜欢而跑马拉松，而是做那些你不想做但还是去做的事儿。

So not running a marathon because you enjoy it, things you don't want to do and you do it anyway.

我看到的一些研究显示，成长于这种沉迷刷屏世代的年轻人，这一区域较小。

It went through some of the studies I saw said that younger people that have been brought into this sort of doom scrolling generation have smaller ones.

如果你肥胖，它也会更小。

If you are obese, it's smaller.

运动员的这一区域更大，而长寿者则拥有更大的区域。

Athletes have bigger ones, and people who live longer have even bigger ones.

他们称之为大脑锻炼意志力的肌肉。

And it's they kinda call it like the muscle of the brain of doing hard things.

所以当你谈到这种身体上的转变时，我奇怪地想到了罗斯福，是的。

And so when you're talking about that physical transformation, I weirdly thought about I think it's Roosevelt who Yep.

在他母亲和妻子同一天去世后，是的。

After losing his mom and his wife on the same day Yes.

在他女儿出生后，他前往恶地，花了两年时间做着你所说的事情——主动让自己处于不适之中。

After his baby girl was born, he went out to the Badlands and spent two years doing pretty much what you said, putting himself in intentional discomfort.

是的。

Yeah.

他回来后，所有朋友都说他彻底改变了。

And he came back and all of his friends described him as being transformed.

是的。

Yeah.

他后来成为了美国历史上最年轻的总统。

He went on to become the youngest president in American history.

他中枪后仍然继续完成了演讲。

He got shot and carried on doing the speech.

他带领了冲锋。

He led the charge.

我想那是西班牙十字军东征或者类似西班牙战争的事情。

I think it was the Spanish Crusades or something like the Spanish war.

而且

And

莽骑兵。

The Rough Riders.

是的。

Yeah.

莽骑兵。

The Rough Riders.

他们都指向了他前往恶地的那一刻。

And they all pointed at the moment when he went out to the Badlands.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

他们说这段经历塑造了他，让他变成了一个完全不同的人。

They said it shaped him into becoming a completely different man.

那种不适感。

That that discomfort.

是的。

Yeah.

百分之百。

A 100%.

因此，美洲原住民文化在男性成年仪式中会进行幻象追寻，把年轻人送到荒野中。

And that's why Native American cultures for the initiation of their young men would have vision quests, where they would send them out into the wilderness.

而且现在仍然有各种不同的形式。

And there's still different there's all different types.

原住民文化也有类似的做法，我也想让自己经历一次。

Aboriginal cultures have similar things, and I wanted to put myself through that.

于是我出去了，这正是我第一本书中描述的，JJ教会了我如何在丛林中生存。

And so I went out on that's what I described in my first book is going out on that's where JJ taught me enough to survive in the jungle.

然后我开始进行为期十天的独处之旅，去一些地方。

And then I started going out on ten day solos into place.

我会让人把我送到最后一个有名字的地方。

I'd have people bring me to the last place that had a name.

我所说的可是偷猎者。

Like I'm talking about poachers.

然后我会开始徒步行走。

And then I would start hiking.

我会深入亚马逊雨林，深入到地图上都没有标记的地方。

And I would go so deep in the Amazon Rainforest that I was just off the map.

我会尝试在那里生存下来。

And I would try and survive out there.

因此，我经历了许多本不该活下来的冒险。

And so I had a lot of adventures that I should not have survived.

但对我来说，让自己经历这些非常重要，因为我从小就在这种不适中长大。

But it was very important to me to put myself through that because I grew up with that discomfort.

我从小就在一种压倒性的、令人窒息的压力中长大，人们告诉我，末日就要来了。

I grew up with the overwhelming crushing stress of being told that we're at the end of days.

我们正在失去——我的意思是，我在布朗克斯动物园看到了这一切。

We are losing I mean, I saw it at the Bronx Zoo.

他们说，你知道，我们正在失去我们的雨林。

They said, you know, we're losing our rainforests.

他们播放着链锯的声音，你看到树木一棵接一棵地倒下。

And they had the sound of the chainsaws and you see the trees going over.

他们说，我们正在失去大象。

And they said, we're losing elephants.

你会看到有人开枪，然后大象倒下。

You'd see somebody shoot and the elephant goes over.

他们只是说，所有对你而言重要的东西，所有你所爱的，都在被摧毁。

And they just said, everything that you for me, everything you love is being destroyed.

很快我们就不能喝水了。

And pretty soon we're not gonna be able to drink.

一切都会被污染，我们的渔业正在被摧毁。

And everything's gonna be polluted and our fisheries are being destroyed.

我说，等一下。

And I said, wait a second.

我说，我必须亲自确认情况是否真的那么糟糕。

Said, I have to know if it's really that bad.

所以当我长大后，这不仅仅是受到启发去执行一项使命。

So when I got old enough, don't it's not just that I was inspired to go out on a mission.

而是因为我想要亲自查明真相，因为我讨厌通过屏幕获取信息。

It was that I wanted to find out for myself because I'm I don't like finding out through a screen.

我不希望别人替我过滤信息。

I don't I don't want other people filtering my information.

我想亲自去查明真相。

I want to find out for myself.

真的有那么糟糕吗？

Is it really that bad?

于是我踏上了一段探索之旅，想要了解真相是什么。

And so I was going out on a quest to understand what the reality was.

如果我把18岁的你放在这张桌子旁，他就坐在这里。

If I sat 18 year old you at this table, he sat there.

而且，

And,

你知道，这个37岁的你呢？

you know, this version of you at what, 37?

38岁。

38.

38岁，你坐在这里，相差了二十年。

38, you were sat there, so twenty years difference.

是的。

Yeah.

这两个人之间最显著的区别是什么？

What would the notable differences be between these two men?

嗯，

Well,

他根本不会用脚钓鱼。

he didn't know how to fish with his feet.

这点毫无疑问。

That's for sure.

他的砍刀技能也会很糟糕。

His machete skills would be terrible.

但最明显的区别是，那个18岁的他，最大的梦想是减轻他成长环境中所面临的环境压力，逃离规则的世界，找到人生的意义，去经历冒险。

But the noticeable difference would be that that 18 year old, his greatest dream was to alleviate the environmental stress that he grew up with, escape the world of rules, find purpose in life, and to just have adventures.

我最大的梦想是亲眼看看亚马逊雨林。

My greatest dream was to see the Amazon Rainforest.

我看着像西奥多·罗斯福和珍·古道尔这样的人，心想，天啊，他们的人生真是非凡至极。

I looked at people like Teddy Roosevelt and Jane Goodall, and I said, man, they had such incredibly extraordinary lives.

我就想，为什么我的生活不能像那样呢？

And I said, how come my life can't be like that?

我却在这儿被罚站。

I'm over here in detention.

你知道吗？

You know?

我在这儿被训斥说没写作业。

I'm over here being told I didn't do my homework.

而我却只想砍柴挑水。

And I'm like, I want to chop wood and carry water.

我想去打仗。

I want to go to war.

我想感到害怕。

I want to be scared.

我想接受挑战。

I want to be challenged.

所以对我来说，区别就在于我会对这一切充满渴望。

And so for me, was I I was that would be the difference, is that I would be hungry for all of that.

而今天坐在你对面的我，身上布满了疤痕，像是杰克逊·波洛克的画作——有鳄鱼咬伤、老虎咬伤、感染，还有多次差点被大象压死的经历。

Whereas the person sitting across from you today, my body is a Jackson Pollock painting of scars, crocodile bites, tiger bites, infections, times that I've been almost crushed to death by elephants.

我曾被贩毒恐怖分子追杀。

I've been hunted by the narco terrorists.

到了这个时候，那个孩子已经亲眼目睹了他所渴望的一切。

And at this point, the responsibility at that kid got to see all the things he wanted to see.

我们找到了最大的森蚺。

We found the biggest anacondas.

我亲身经历了这些惊人的冒险，这很棒。

I lived through the amazing adventures, and that's great.

今天坐在你对面的我，肩负着保护数百万动物生命的重任。

The person sitting across from you today is responsible for protecting millions of animal lives.

我的工作是向人们说明，每一个阅读或听到这条信息的人，都有机会帮助原住民拯救亚马逊雨林，以免我们永远失去它。

And my job is to explain to people that we, that everyone reading this message or listening to this message, has the chance to help the indigenous people save the Amazon before we lose it forever.

所以主要的区别在于，那时我年纪还小，只是想要一些刺激的冒险。

So that's the main difference is that at that age, I was just I just wanted some swashbuckling adventure.

而现在，我发现这些冒险有了更深的意义。

And now I found that adventure became meaning.

我在途中找到了它。

I found it along the way.

而现在，我踏上了完全不同的旅程。

And then now I'm on a whole other journey.

现在的问题是，我们能不能把这一切带回家？

Now it's now it's can we bring it home?

现在的问题是，我们能不能实现当初认为不可能的目标，改变人们做事的方式？

Now it's can we achieve something that we thought was impossible and change the narrative of how it's done?

这让我想到了关于未接触部落的这个问题。

And I guess this kind of brings us back to this question about the uncontacted tribes.

你说你和JJ在讨论如何拯救亚马逊。

You said you and JJ were talking about how you might go about saving the Amazon.

在那次任务中，突出展示亚马逊的未接触部落是目标之一吗？

Was highlighting the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon part of the mission there?

不是。

No.

绝对不是。

Very much no.

这是个很好的问题，因为我们一开始是观察这个流域，然后说：好吧，我们真的很喜欢这条非常原始的河流。

That's a great question because what we started doing was we looked at this river basin and we said, okay, we we love this this one really wild river.

接着我们开始思考：为什么这条河流会如此原始呢？

And now we said, why why has this river been so wild?

你知道吗？

You know?

你可以把亚马逊想象成一条由无数河流组成的巨树。

So you think of the Amazon as a a tree of rivers.

主河道是亚马逊河，然后还有数以百万计的支流。

You have the main Amazon Channel and then all these millions of branches.

因此，上亚马逊地区，即亚马逊雨林最上游的支流，人们现在才刚刚到达那里。

And so the Upper Amazon, the uppermost branches of the Amazon Rainforest, those tip tip tops, people are only just getting to them now.

你知道，主亚马逊河道是个航运通道，而从它分出许多巨大的支流。

You know, the main Amazon Channel is a shipping port, and then you have these huge tributaries going off of it.

你可以乘蒸汽船一直抵达伊基托斯。

You can get in as far as Iquitos with a steam ship.

你可以从巴西出发，穿越数千英里，一直到达秘鲁的伊基托斯，几乎抵达亚马逊的尽头。

Like you can go all the way through Brazil thousands of miles and get all the way to Iquitos, Peru, to the almost the back end of the Amazon.

我去过那里。

I've been there.

那里非常美丽。

And it's beautiful.

我们位于南部边缘的那些支流区域。

We are at the southern edge in the tributaries down there.

有一条支流。

And there's one tributary.

什么是支流？

What's a tributary?

支流是从主河流分出来的分支。

A tributary is an offshoot from a larger river.

所以一条小溪是更大溪流的支流，汇入后最终会到达哈德逊河。

So a stream is a tributary of a larger stream, goes into and then eventually you reach the Hudson River.

所以这是一条非常小的支流。

So this is a tiny little tributary.

我们发现，人们之所以没有开发这条支流，其他原住民社区之所以没有在此形成，是因为在数百年间，这条河流一直受到暴力而神秘的马什科皮罗游牧未接触部落的保护。

And what we've discovered is that the reason people hadn't developed this tributary, the reason other indigenous communities hadn't formed, was that for hundreds and hundreds of years, this particular river had been protected by the violent, mysterious Mashkopiro nomadic uncontacted tribes.

这使得它保持了原始状态。

And that had kept it wild.

他们是最初的丛林守护者。

They were the original jungle keepers.

但当我到达那里时，他们几乎只是一种传说。

But by the time I got there, they were sort of just a myth.

所以他们说，自己住在更上游的地方，远在最后一个原住民社区之外。

And so they were something that they said they lived really far upriver, past the last indigenous community.

当我提到原住民社区时，指的是那些我们能交流的人，能与之互动的人，我可以跟他们说一点西班牙语，他们也能听懂。

And when I say indigenous community, mean people that we can talk to, people that we can interface with, that I can speak a little Spanish to and they'll understand me.

我认为这是一个重要的区别。

I think that's an important distinction.

对。

Yes.

你能区分原住民和这些部落吗？

Because can you make that distinction between indigenous and these tribes?

是的。

Yes.

在秘鲁，你有利马，那里有米其林星级餐厅和各种美味佳肴。

So within Peru, you have Lima and and, know, Michelin star restaurants and all this amazing food.

然后你前往库斯科，那里有马丘比丘、安第斯山脉，以及所有这些精彩的文化。

And then you travel down to Cusco, you have Machu Picchu and you have the Andes and all of that incredible culture.

然后你进入丛林，那就像去阿拉斯加的偏远地区。

And then you go down to the jungle and that's a little bit like going to the back end of Alaska.

那里离洛杉矶或纽约非常遥远，但仍然是同一个国家。

That's where it's like you are very far away from LA or New York like, but it's the same country.

在那里，你会遇到这些原住民社区。

And out there, you'll reach these communities where they are indigenous.

因此，在我们作为丛林守护者目前保护的保护区里，有两个原住民社区。

And so in the reserve that we currently protect as jungle keepers, there's two indigenous communities there.

我们与他们合作，给予他们支持。

And we work with them to sort of support them.

因为当这些伐木工、毒贩和金矿工人进入时，他们会把原住民视为目标。

Because as these loggers and narcotraffickers and gold miners come in, they see them as a mark.

他们会进去说：哦，这些无助的原住民。

They'll go in and say, oh, there's these helpless indigenous people.

我们该怎么利用他们？

How can we exploit them?

我们怎么才能得到他们的树、他们的鱼呢？

How can we get their trees, their fish?

他们会去拿走这些东西，或者卖给他们一些并不值他们以为价值的东西。

They'll go and take those things from them or they'll sell them something that's not worth what they think it is.

因此，我们一直与这些原住民社区合作，问他们：你们希望伐木工进来砍光你们所有的树吗？

And so we've been working with these indigenous communities to say, Do you want the loggers to come in and cut down all of your trees?

他们回答：不希望。

And they go, No.

但与此同时，我们需要一点汽油，因为万一我们生孩子，得送女儿去镇上的医院呢？

But at the same time, we need a little bit of gasoline because what if we're having a baby and have to get our daughter to a hospital in town?

因此，我们一直在与他们合作，提供可持续的护林员工作，保护他们自己的土地。

And so we've been working with them to provide sustainable jobs as rangers, protecting their own land.

这是一个非常简单的解决方案。

It's such a simple solution.

否则，他们就会去当伐木工以换取现金。

Whereas otherwise they would go and be loggers to get that cash.

因此，我们正在与这些社区合作。

And so we're working with these communities.

现在他们成为了护林员、船夫、向导和技工。

And now they're rangers and boat drivers and guides and handymen.

大约一年前，他们给我们打了电话，说发生了一些不可思议的事情。

And they called us about a year ago and they said something incredible is happening.

这可能会很危险，但你们是负责人，你们是这个家庭的一部分，也是这个故事的一部分，我们需要你们在这里参与。

And it's going to be dangerous, but you are the directors and you're part of this family and you're part of this story and we need you here for this.

但这些部落即将走出森林。

But the tribes are about to come out of the forest.

当时我们在镇上，我们现在所做的事是——稍后我可以详细解释——我们筹款并将资金带到亚马逊，让当地人民有机会划出大片亚马逊土地进行保护。

And we were in town and what we do now is, and we can explain this later, but we raise money and we bring it to the Amazon where the local people have the opportunity to set aside huge acreage of the Amazon to protect it.

我们正在改变破坏的叙事，转而提前保护这片土地。

We're changing the narrative of destruction where we just protect it before they get to it.

因此，当时我们和JJ在一起，他现在是这个重要组织的负责人，我们正在办公室里和律师们交谈，这时我们接到电话，说部落已经出来了。

And so we were in town with JJ, who's now the director of this major organization, and we're talking to our lawyers, we're in the office, and we get this call that the tribe is out.

部落出来了？

The tribe is out?

部落出来了。

The tribe is out.

那意味着什么？

What does that mean?

这意味着，当我抵达秘鲁时，秘鲁总统一直说，这些未接触过的部落是虚构的。

It means the mythical uncontacted tribe that when I arrived in Peru, the president of Peru had been saying, these are a myth.

他们根本不存在。

They don't exist.

这只是一个吓唬人的传说。

And it's just it's the boogeyman.

这个说法只是编出来吓唬伐木工的。

It's been made up as a story to scare the loggers.

所以他们的存在一直备受争议。

So their existence was contested.

他们几乎处于想象的边缘。

They were almost on the fringes of imagination.

我们难道不能飞一架飞机过去吗？

Could we not have flown a plane over there or something?

我知道这听起来像个傻问题，但我们不是有卫星吗？可以放大观察啊。

Is that you know, this sounds like a dumb question, but presumably we have satellites and we can zoom in.

BBC确实做过一个报道，他们驾驶飞机从远处观察了一个与世隔绝的部落。

The BBC did do a piece where they were flying a plane and they were looking at an unco an uncontacted tribe from miles away.

他们说我们非常小心，不打扰他们，但雨林中确实有一个与外界毫无接触的部落。

And they said we're being very careful not to disturb them, but there is a tribe in the rainforest that has no contact with the outside world.

你可以看到这些人弯着腰。

And you can see these people bending.

他们望着飞机，但飞机离得足够远，不会吓到他们或引起任何不安。

And they're looking at the plane, but the plane's not close enough to really scare them or to cause them any distress.

所以我们已经这样做了。

And so we have done that.

但在我们这条河上，在人迹罕至的荒野中，没人听说过BBC，你只能听到一些伐木工人的传闻，他们是从上游三周航程的地方顺流而下。

But then on our river, out in the middle of nowhere, where no one's heard of the BBC, you just hear stories from loggers who've come down river from three weeks up river.

你沿着河向上游走三周，可能什么人都遇不到。

You can go for three weeks up the river and hit nothing.

那里没有任何人类的痕迹。

There's nothing human.

就像最后一片无尽的森林。

It's like the last endless forest.

所以当社区打电话来说，沙滩上发现了箭矢时。

And so when the community called and they said, there's arrows on the beach.

部落的人出来了。

The tribe is coming out.

这是十年来这个部落首次似乎从丛林中走出来寻求接触。

It's the first time in ten years that the tribe seems to be coming out of the jungle to make contact.

于是他们派人把丛林守护者的负责人接了过去。

And so they got out they got the directors of jungle keepers up there.

我们得赶紧赶到那里。

We had to we had to rush to be there.

他们恳求我们去，好让我们亲眼看到，因为他们担心我们不会相信他们的话。

They begged us to be there so that we could see it because they were worried that we wouldn't believe them.

于是我们到了那里，整晚都在赶路。

And so we got there and we went all night.

当你在夜间逆流而上，相当于在一夜之间完成两天的船程。

And when you go up a river at night, just do a two day boat journey in one night.

那个照片里额头上带着伤疤的男人，就是伊格纳西奥。

And so the guy right there, the picture with the guy who has the scar on his forehead, that's Ignacio.

那个伤疤是因为他在试图与未接触部落建立和平接触时，被一支七英尺长的箭射中头部。

That scar is because he was shot in the head by a seven foot arrow while he was trying to make peaceful contact with the uncontacted tribes.

他当时正想送他们礼物，但他们受惊了，害怕了，于是朝他头部射箭，他差点因此丧命。

He was trying to give them a gift and they got spooked and they scared and they shot him in the head and he almost died from that.

当我们听说这件事时，他已经是我们的顶尖丛林守护者巡护员之一，我们就问他：你能一夜完成两天的船程吗？

When we heard that this was happening and he's now one of our best Jungle Keepers Rangers, we said, can you do a two day boat journey in one night?

他回答：好的，长官。

And he went, yes, sir.

他戴上头灯，坐到船尾，我们乘着一艘敞篷独木舟，从晚上6点一直航行到第二天早上9点，经历了我见过最猛烈的雷暴。

And he put on a headlamp and he got in the back of the boat and we took an open top canoe and we drove from 6PM until 9AM the next day through the worst thunderstorm I've ever seen.

我坐在船头，用手电筒借助鳄鱼和凯门鳄的眼睛来导航，因为它们的眼睛会在岸边反射光线。

I was on the front of the boat with a flashlight using the crocodile eyes, the caiman eyes on the side of the river to navigate because they shine, the eye shine comes back.

那场风暴太猛烈了，我们什么都看不见。

The storm was so bad that we couldn't see anything.

我们看不到河岸，而且由于光线照射在雨滴上，连眼前的东西都看不清。

We couldn't see the side of the river and because of the light igniting the raindrops, can't even see what's in front of you.

所以我们依靠鳄鱼眼来判断河流的边缘。

So we're using the crockeyes to navigate where the edges of the river was.

我负责观察并告诉他往哪个方向开，他负责驾驶，我们就这样整夜航行。

So I was spotting and telling him which way to go and he drove and we did that all night long.

我们到达了原住民社区，然后问：好吧，到底发生了什么？

Got to the indigenous community and said, okay, so what's going on?

他们说，是的，他们走了。

And they said, yeah, they left.

部落已经没了。

Tribe's gone.

他们唯一知道的是，前一天有个人被箭射中了。

The only thing that they had was that one guy the previous day had been shot by an arrow.

他当时正在钓鱼，看到了那些部落，于是说他们朝他射了一箭。

And he had been fishing and he'd seen the tribes, so he said, and they had shot an arrow at him.

他们最先做的就是朝他射出了一支七英尺长的箭。

The first thing they had done was shot one of these seven foot arrows at him.

箭击中船后弹开，然后打中了他厚实的皮带，钝化了箭头。

And the way it had hit the boat ricocheted and then hit his thick leather belt and blunted the tip of the arrow.

他保留了那支箭。

And he had the arrow.

所以他说道，这里确实有人。

And so he says, so there are there are people here.

然后，一位来自其他地区的原住民人类学家出现了，他说，他们把我当作祖父。

And then a native anthropologist from another region showed up and he said, I they know me as the grandfather.

我可以和这些人交流。

I can speak to these people.

我会说一点他们的语言。

I speak a little bit of their language.

所以我们又在丛林里多待了一晚，总共待了两天。

And so we stayed another night, two days deep in the jungle.

第二天早上，我们说，好吧。

And the following morning, we said, okay.

我们要离开这里了。

We're getting out of here.

这里显然什么都没有，只有故事、脚印和箭矢，而我们在城里还有重要的工作要做。

There's obviously nothing here but, you know, stories and footprints and arrows, and we have important work to do back in town.

那你相信他们吗？

And did you believe them?

我在亚马逊工作期间学到了一件事。

I've learned one thing working in the Amazon.

永远相信当地人。

Always believe the locals.

永远要相信。

Always.

如果他们说某物存在，那他们就没错。

There's there's if they say it's there, they're not wrong.

这也是我能够踏上这些冒险的原因之一。

And that's part of the reason that I've gotten to go on these adventures.

你知道，当JJ Tell告诉我，有些地方如此原始，就像加拉帕戈斯群岛一样。

You know, when JJ Tell told me there's places you can go that are so wild that it's like the Galapagos.

那里的动物根本不知道人类的存在。

The animals don't know a human.

但你必须徒步数日，抵达河流的最上游，才能找到这样的地方。

But you have to go for days on foot to the topmost reaches of the rivers to find this.

这就是为什么我独自前往这些地方。

Well, that's why I went on these solos.

因此，作为一名作家，我的工作就是试图带人们体验这些亚马逊探险。

And so I write that's what I'm that's as a writer, that's what I do is try and take people on these adventures through the Amazon.

当他们说部落要来了时，那个头部中弹的伊格纳西奥说：听我说。

And so when they said the tribe is coming, Ignacio, the guy who'd been shot in the head, he said, listen to me.

他说：你是我的老板。

He said, you're he said, you're my boss.

对吧？

Right?

我说：是的。

I said, yeah.

他说：我想像朋友一样跟你说话。

He goes, I need to speak to you like a friend.

我说：说吧，说吧，说吧。

I said, speak, speak, speak.

他说，他们来了。

And he said, they're coming.

你要是走了，那就是个傻瓜。

You'd be an idiot to leave.

于是我们安顿下来。

And so we posted up.

我们等着。

We waited.

他怎么知道的？

How he knew?

是的。

Yeah.

我在想他是怎么知道的。

I'm wondering how he knew.

他就是知道，老兄。

He just knew, man.

他们就是知道。

They just know.

就好像他们能察觉到一样。

It's like they can can tell.

然后，你知道，我的意思是，这些家伙能通过鸟的叫声判断出美洲豹就在附近。

And then, you know, I mean, these are guys who know when there's a jaguar close by by the sound of the birds.

他们在风暴还听不到之前就知道风暴要来了。

They know when a storm's coming before the storm is audible.

你知道，他们的感官比我们更敏锐。

You know, they they have higher tuned senses than we do.

于是他说，部落的人来了。

And and so he said, look, the tribe is coming.

那边的区域有支箭。

There's the arrow there in the region.

他说，当他们靠近到这种程度时，通常都是想谈谈。

He goes, and when they come this close, they generally they want to talk.

我说了，但果然，你听到莫什科一喊，所有人都开始尖叫。

I said, but this is and sure enough, you hear Moshko and everyone starts screaming.

那一刻完全是恐慌，妇女们抱着婴儿，鸡到处乱飞，狗也乱窜。

And it was just this moment of absolute panic where women were lifting babies and chickens are flying around and dogs.

我们身处一个小小的原住民社区，位于河边，四周是数百英里广袤的丛林。

And we're in this tiny little indigenous community on the side of a river with hundreds and hundreds of miles of jungle around.

我们跑到河边的悬崖边缘。

And we run to the edge of this, you know, the edge of the river where this cliff is.

过河后，我们看到他们正朝我们走来。

And across the river we see them coming towards us.

他们从丛林中走出来，全身赤裸。

And they're walking out of the jungle, and they're naked from head to toe.

他们腰间只系着一根绳子，生殖器被绑在腹部。

They just have some string tied around their waists, penises tied up to their bellies.

他们每个人都拿着七英尺长的弓箭，弯着腰，盯着我们。

They all have seven foot long bows and arrows, they're crouched over, and they're looking at us.

我们站在那里，心里想着：我本来只是想亲眼看看这一切，但现在我不确定自己是不是还真的想待在这儿。

And we're standing there, and you go you sort of like you go, I I just I I wanted I wanted to see this and now I'm not so sure I wanna be here.

因为有一群战士正从丛林中走出来，他们就像来自一千年前的人。

Because there are warriors coming out of the jungle and they're from a thousand years ago.

于是我问那位人类学家：他们是不是石器时代的人？

So I asked the anthropologist, said, They're like Stone Age people.

他回答说：他们连石头都没有。

And he goes, They don't have stones.

他说：他们还处在竹器时代。

He said, They're still in the Bamboo Age.

他说：这些人过着极其原始的生活。

He said, These people are living such a primitive lifestyle.

他们是狩猎采集者。

They're hunter gatherers.

他们被隔离在丛林深处长达数个世纪，简直就像一个时间胶囊。

And they've been isolated so deep in the jungle for so many centuries that it's like a time capsule.

所以我们之间隔着一千年。

So there was a thousand years between us.

我们站在河的两岸，相隔一千年，而这条河就像一扇通往人类昔日面貌的窗口。

We're standing on either side of the river with a thousand years between us and this aperture into the history of what humankind used to look like.

这些人手持弓箭从丛林中走出来，那些弓箭都是他们用丛林里的材料制作的。

And these people came out holding their bows and arrows that they had made out of the jungle.

他们举起双手，隔着河流向我们说话。

And they held up their hands and they were talking to us across a river.

这就像衬衫对赤身裸体的对抗。

And it was sort of shirts versus skins.

我们只是被一点水流隔开的两个部落，而他们想要与我们沟通。

We were just two tribes separated by a little bit of water and they wanted to communicate.

用什么语言呢？

With what language?

用他们的语言。

With their language.

他们，我的意思是，我们甚至都不知道该怎么称呼他们。

They I mean, it's we don't even know really what to call them.

有一段时间，我们称他们为马什科普罗，意思是‘野生的普罗人’。

For a while, were calling them the Mashko Puro, which means the wild Puro people.

而最近，部分因为我们的这次相遇，他们举起了双手。

And then more recently, and partly because of our encounter, they held up their hands.

他们说的第一句话是：诺莫勒。

And the first thing they said was, Nomole.

我们是兄弟。

We are the brothers.

兄弟。

Brothers.

于是我们这边也说了同样的话，人类学家说：诺莫勒。

And so then our side said the same thing the anthropologist said, Nomole.

兄弟。

Brothers.

然后这种交流就开始了，就像我作为一个西班牙语使用者，在意大利时可以用西班牙语勉强应付意大利语一样。

And then this exchange began, and it's like, as a Spanish speaker, when I've been in Italy, I can use my Spanish to kind of get through in Italian.

我觉得情况就是这样。

And I feel like it's like that.

亚内人可以和马丘皮乔人交流，这是一种近似的翻译。

The Yine people can speak to the Machu Picchio and it is an approximate translation.

他们从丛林中出来，晚了一千年才接触文明，第一句话就是：给我们送香蕉来。

And the first thing that they said after coming out of the jungle a thousand years late to civilization was, send us bananas.

他们说：给我们送食物来。

They said, send us food.

他们要求我们把芭蕉作为贡品送给他们。

And they demanded that we send them plantains as an offering.

我们这边说：放下你们的武器。

And our side said, you put down your weapons.

我们可以和你们交谈，但我们不希望事情以暴力收场。

We will talk to you, but we do not want this to end violently.

我们希望这件事能和平解决。

We want this to be peaceful.

如果你想和我们交谈，就放下你的弓箭。

If you want to talk to us, put down your bow and arrows.

因为霰弹枪，霰弹枪能射多远？

Because a shotgun, a shotgun only goes how many meters?

你知道，它连100米都射不到，也许只有50米，最多就是散弹。

You know, it's not even going to go 100 meters, maybe 50 meters, maybe, buckshot.

长弓的箭能射到300米远。

A longbow arrow is going to go 300 meters.

它能射得很远。

It's going to go far.

不用说，他们用这些箭非常熟练。

And that needless to say, they're very good with those arrows.

他们用这些箭非常熟练。

They are very good with those arrows.

这些东西会飞出去。

These things will fly.

所以即使站在河的另一边，我们也不安全。

And so even standing on the other side of the river, we were not safe.

所以我们全都躲在树后面。

And so we were all standing behind trees.

我们看着伊格纳西奥，他之前曾被射中，正用望远镜观察着，他说，每当你们看到他们走动时，他们会故意让你看见，然后巧妙地躲进森林里，有人在阴影中监视着你。

We were watching Ignacio who'd been shot before was watching with the binoculars and he's going, whenever you see them walking, he said, they let you see them and then they clever girl you in the forest where there's one watching you from the shadows.

他会抓住我的肩膀说：看，那里有一个。

And he would grab me by the shoulder and go, look, there's one.

你只能看到森林阴影中那抹红色的面部彩绘，他手中的弓已经对准了我们。

And you would just see this, you know, red face paint in the shadows of the forest and he'd have the bow trained on us.

所以，虽然有些人前面放下了弓，但还有其他人藏在阴影中，确保他们仍有支援。

And so while some of them in the front were putting the bows down, there was others of them in the shadows that were making sure that they still had support.

但我们要求前面的人放下箭矢。

But we asked the guys in the front to put down their arrows.

人类学家走进河里，向他们献上了香蕉作为祭品。

The anthropologist got in the river and gave them an offering of bananas.

我想我这里有一段关于这个的视频。

I think I have a video here of Yeah.

这是全球首次拍摄的影像。

This is world first footage.

我来教你如何使用iPad。

I'll let you know how to use an iPad.

对吧？

Right?

好了。

There we go.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这是早期某天的一个随意瞬间，但就是这个时刻，所有人都开始大喊‘Mash，冲啊’，我们全都跑了起来。

So this is this was this is just a random moment from the earlier days, but this is that moment where everyone starts screaming, Mash, go, and we're all running.

这就是我之前提到的，他们正在海滩上移动，你可以看到他们当时的姿态。

And this is what I was talking about where they are moving across the beach and you can see the sort of the posture they're using there.

我的意思是，他们手里拿着弓箭，然后出现了，我们看到他们正在指指点点。

I mean, he's got they have their bows and arrows in hand and then they showed up and see they're pointing.

他们担心我们的摄像机是枪，所以要求我们放下摄像机。

They were worried that our cameras were guns, and so they were asking to put down the cameras.

他们对我们部落的各个成员都很好奇，所有人都同时在说话。

They were curious about various members of our tribe, and they were all talking at the same time.

因此，我们很难理解他们想要什么。

And so it was very difficult to understand what they wanted.

他那个手指在做什么？

What's he doing with his finger there?

他是在做这个吗？

He's doing This?

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这就是我们给他们香蕉的时刻。

This is the moment that we gave them the bananas.

令人揪心的是，你能看到他们那种绝望的样子，所有人都争抢着拿香蕉，而且他们并不是打算以后再分享。

And what's haunting about this is the desperation that you see on them where they're all rushing to get the bananas, and they're not necessarily taking them like they're going to share later.

他们拿香蕉的样子是：我拿我的香蕉，你拿你的香蕉。

They're taking them like, I get my bananas, you get your bananas.

你看到了吗？

You see this?

他们都冲着那一点点船载量去抢。

They're all rushing to get this little boatload.

这些人都没有船。

And these are people that don't have boats.

在他们这样做的时候，所有人都同时在说话。

And as they're doing this, they're all talking at the same time.

这就像一群鹦鹉一样。

It was like a flock of parrots.

简直就是一片嘈杂的声音。

It was just a cacophony of of sound.

他们都在争夺这些芭蕉，一旦拿到手，每个人就各自保管自己的。

And they're all fighting over these plantains, and and then once they get them, each person held their own.

他们手里有绳子和芭蕉，这种互动持续了几个小时，我们和他们进行了协商。

They have rope and plantains, and this interaction went on for several hours, and we negotiated with them.

这只是拍摄的素材。

And this is just the footage.

这是我们现在被允许发布的素材。

This is the footage that we're allowed to release right now.

接着他们又退回了丛林深处。

And this is them moving back off into the jungle.

还有很多其他发生的事情。

There's a lot more that happened.

而且再次说明，我们之所以现在发布这段视频，正是因为这一点。

And again, that's why we're releasing this now, should say that.

我们之所以推迟一段时间才发布这段视频，是因为这类 footage 在很多方面都极其敏感。

That's why we waited a while to release this footage because footage like this is incredibly sensitive for a number of reasons.

首先，你不希望人们以为我们主动去接触了那些希望被孤立的人。

A, you don't want people to think that we went out and contacted these people that want to be left alone.

同时，你也不希望助长其他人对他们的误解。

You also don't want to encourage other people to indulge their misconceptions.

人们会说，他们是地球上最后的自由族群。

People go, these are the last free people on earth.

他们与自然完美地保持着平衡。

They live perfectly in balance with nature.

不。

No.

人们会去寻找他们，而几个世纪以来，他们只希望一件事——被独自留下。

People will go looking for them, whereas for hundreds of years, people have asked for one thing and one thing only, to be left alone.

他们一直像科曼奇人那样用箭矢维护这种隔离。

And they've enforced that kind of like the Comanches with arrows.

而就在这一天，他们说：请给我们食物。

And on this day, they said, please give us food.

请给我们绳子。

Please give us rope.

他们还有一个问题。

And they had one other question.

他们问：我们怎么分辨坏人和好人？

They said, how do we tell the bad guys from the good guys?

我们问：你什么意思？

And we said, what do you mean?

谁是坏人？

Who are the bad guys?

他们说：有些人用‘奇奇苏’——也就是火棍、枪——朝我们开枪。

And they said, some of you shoot at us with the chi chixu, with the fire sticks, the guns.

我们当时就想，谁会这么做？

And we're going, who who does that?

我们说，我们不是坏人。

We said, we are not the bad guys.

他们说，不。

And they said, no.

他们还说，我们知道你们砍伐了我们的树。

You also they said, we we know you cut down our trees.

他们是在对我们所有人说话。

They're speaking to all of us.

他们没有区分什么白人、棕人、秘鲁外国人之类的。

There was not There's no you know, white guy, brown guy, Peruvian foreigners, none of that.

他们只是说你们这些外来者。

It was just all of you outsiders.

停止砍伐我们的树。

Stop cutting down our trees.

我们的树就是我们的神。

Our trees are our gods.

那种感觉就像是，你不能这么做。

It was sort of like, you don't do that.

就在几周前他们离开后，我们得知贩毒集团视他们为威胁。

And then when they left, just a few weeks ago, we learned that the narcotraffickers view them as a threat.

事实上，人们发现了一个类似部落的集体坟墓。

And there was actually a mass grave found of a similar clan.

因此，这些人正被砍伐森林和贩毒集团、金矿工及伐木者步步紧逼。

And so these people are being boxed in by deforestation and hunted by narco traffickers and gold miners and loggers.

所以我认为，他们走出森林，是为了表达：嘿，我们想了解外面世界正在发生什么。

And so I think that them coming out of the forest was their way of saying, hey, we're trying to get a read on what's going on in the outside world.

是谁？

Who is it?

谁是好人？

Who are the good guys?

坏人是谁？

Who are the bad guys?

他们不知道丛林守护者正在保护他们赖以生存的土地。

They don't know that Jungle Keepers is protecting the land that they live on.

他们从未听说过勺子、轮子、耶稣、第二次世界大战或秘鲁这个国家。

They've never heard of a spoon or the wheel or Jesus or World War II or the country of Peru.

因此，他们出来时带着无数问题。

And so they're coming out with so many questions.

要照顾这些人并给予他们应得的权利，唯一的方法就是保护他们生活的森林。

And the only way to care for these people and to give them the rights that they deserve is to protect the forest they live in.

你知道为什么有些人似乎在摸鼻子吗？

Do you know why some of them seem to be touching their nose?

这很有趣。

It's funny.

我都没注意到这一点。

I didn't notice that.

我觉得这将成为你对人类学的发现。

I think this is going be your discovery to anthropology.

我没注意到，但你看，很多人都是这样做的。

I did not notice that, but it does you see this, a lot of them are doing this.

是的。

Yeah.

还有他们的服装。

And the the outfit.

服装。

The outfit.

这是什么

What is

这种服装？

this outfit?

这看起来像是用绳子系在他们的腰腹部，而他们的阴茎露在外面。

This it looks like there's kind of rope tied around their midriff with their penises out.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

阴茎的头部被绳子包裹着。

The the the the head of the penis is covered by rope.

哦，他们的阴茎被缠进了绳子里。

Oh, they've got the penis up into the rope.

不。

No.

阴茎头

The head

阴茎头向上并受到保护。

of the penis is up and protected.

考虑到丛林里有蚊子、钻地蝇和沙蝇，这就有道理了。

And and that makes sense given the jungle where there's mosquitoes and botflies and sandflies.

这是个明智的举动。

That that's a smart move.

然后绳子似乎——我的意思是，它就像火一样，是绳子、梯子，我觉得这是人类的第二项发明。

And then rope seems to be I mean, what is it goes like fire, rope, ladders, I think it's like man's second invention.

他们对绳子着迷。

They are obsessed with rope.

他们用绳子制作弓弦。

That's how they make their bowstrings.

他们用绳子制作箭矢。

That's how they make their arrows.

他们用绳子把东西绑在一起，制造出他们那些有限的结构。

That's how they lash things together to make them the limited structures that they make.

我们对他们的了解部分来自于发现他们离开后的营地。

And some of what we know about them is, you know, we find their camps after they leave.

所以我们知道他们吃什么。

So we know what they eat.

他们主要吃海龟和猴子。

They eat primarily turtles and monkeys.

他们不捕鱼。

They don't fish.

他们没有鱼钩。

They don't have fish hooks.

他们不吃人吧？

They they don't eat humans, do they?

他们不吃人。

They do not eat humans.

他们不是食人族。

They are not cannibal tribes.

那是人们以前常谈论的谣言，有人说

That's a rumor people have talked about before people have said

是的。

Yeah.

网上甚至还有几个我声音的AI版本在说这件事，但那不是真的。

There's even a couple versions of my voice in AI saying that on the Internet, but it is not true.

那他们的发型呢？

And their haircuts?

他们看起来都留着这种后长前短的莫西干发型，从

They all seem to be have this sort of mullet style haircut from

看起来他们都是把前面的头发抓起来，然后随便剪一剪。

the It seems like they all grab the front and just find a way to cut it.

可能就有一个拿着砍刀的人负责给大家剪头发。

There might be like one guy with a machete who just does the haircuts.

对很多人来说，这是他们第一次见到人类。

And for a lot of them, this is the first time they've seen a human.

所以，这实际上是第一次接触。

So actually, this was first contact.

那位来到现场、负责这次接触的人类学家说，他以前在这一带也接触过一个与世隔绝的部落。

The anthropologist who came to the scene, who managed this interaction, he said he had met an uncontacted tribe before in the region.

他说这些人都不是他以前见过的。

He said none of these were men that he'd met.

还有另一点，注意他们全是男性。

And the other thing, notice they're all men.

是的。

Yeah.

女性们藏在森林里。

The women were hidden hidden in the forest.

当男性们在我们前面制造混乱时，女性们正在我们身后袭击农场。

And while the men were making a distraction in front of us, the women were raiding the farm behind us.

袭击？

Raiding?

袭击农场。

Raiding the farm.

你的农场？

Your farm?

原住民的农场。

The indigenous people's farm.

我们社区的农场。

Our community's farm.

所以女人趁你们分散注意力的时候去偷窃？

So the women went to steal while they were distracting you?

没错。

That's right.

你们有拍到那些女人吗？

And did you catch the women on tape?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

我们所有人都紧紧地挤在一起。

Everyone was we were all huddled up very, very close.

我的意思是，这是一次非凡的遭遇，但让我解释一下，整个过程中双方的情绪主要是恐惧。

I mean, this was an incredible encounter, but let me explain the prevailing emotion during this entire thing was fear on both sides.

他们很害怕。

They were scared.

我们也害怕。

We were scared.

原住民本来就通常拥有猎枪。

The indigenous people naturally have shotguns anyway.

每个人都拿出了他们的猎枪。

Everyone had their shotguns out.

他们所有人都有武器，有些人把弓箭放在了沙滩上，但还有弓箭手在等待。

They all had some of them had put their bows on the beach, but they had other they had archers waiting.

所以大家都是那种状态，你知道的，像是‘放下枪，我们谈谈’，但没人真想放下枪。

And so everyone was sort of, you know, it was like, put down your guns and we can talk, but nobody really wanted to put down their guns.

你怎么知道那些女人偷了你们的农场？

And how do you know the women were stealing from your farm?

因为这件事结束后，我们去了农场，

Because after this was

所有东西都被拔光了。

all over and we went to the farm, everything had been pulled up.

所有的龙舌兰、所有的芭蕉、所有的甘蔗，整个农场都被毁了。

All the yucca, all the plantains, all the sugarcane, the entire farm was ruined.

你怎么确定是那些女人干的？

How'd you know it was the women?