重播次数最多的片段：布琳·布朗谈脆弱、自尊与勇气的四大技能

说到我和脆弱这件事，脆弱真的重要吗？

On that point about me and vulnerability, is vulnerability important?

因为现在到处都是装出来的脆弱，尤其是在那些公开场合。

Because there's a lot of performative vulnerability taking place in the For sure.

对我健康、幸福和未来来说，做一个脆弱的人真的重要吗？

Is is it an important thing for my health, happiness, my future to be a vulnerable person?

那我们先来明确一下定义。

Well, let's define it.

脆弱就是当我们面对不确定性、风险和情感暴露时所体验到的情绪。

Vulnerability is the emotion we experience when we have when we are up against uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure.

所以脆弱就是我感受到的这种情绪。

So vulnerability is what I feel.

那种尴尬、不自在的感觉，就是在面对不确定、风险或情感暴露时我内心的真实反应。

It's the cringe, the awkward, the emotion I feel in times of uncertainty, risk, or emotional exposure.

这其实挺有意思的，因为我以前很难让人理解，因为我们从小就被灌输脆弱就是软弱，直到我去布拉格堡，和特种部队一起工作时，才终于有机会问士兵们一个问题。

So it was really interesting because I had a hard time helping people understand because there's we are so raised to believe that vulnerability is weakness that it took a trip to Fort Bragg working with special forces to ask soldiers a question.

说说你生活中一个真正勇敢的时刻。

Give me a single example of courage in your life.

无论是你亲眼看到的，还是你自己做过的。

One example that you've witnessed or you yourself have done.

一个不需要面对不确定性、风险或情感暴露的勇敢例子。

One example of courage that did not require uncertainty, risk, or emotional exposure.

没人能举出这样的例子。

No one could answer it.

最后，一名年轻士兵站了起来，说：‘三次部署。’

Finally, a young soldier stood up and said three tours.

没有脆弱，就没有真正的勇敢。

There is no courage without vulnerability.

那么，脆弱重要吗？

So is vulnerability important?

如果我们想勇敢地生活，那就很重要。

It is if we wanna be brave with our lives.

如果我们想以符合价值观的方式勇敢地管理自己，就必须学会面对那些在不确定、有风险或暴露自我的时候产生的感受。

If we want to be able to manage ourselves in a way that's values aligned and courageous, we have to be able to reconcile how we feel when we're uncertain, at risk, or exposed.

说来也奇怪，从布拉格堡回来后的那一周，我去了西雅图海鹰队，就是那个NFL球队。

I mean and really weirdly, the next week after the trip to Fort Bragg, I was with the Seattle Seahawks, the football team, NFL team.

是的。

Yeah.

去问问那些球员。

Ask the players.

给我举个例子，说明在场上或场下，有哪种勇敢的行为不需要脆弱。

Give me an example of courage on the field or off that did not require vulnerability.

他们说，这根本不可能。

They said that it's not possible.

没有勇气这回事。

There is no courage.

如果你在生活中、工作中做的一切都没有风险、没有不确定性、也不需要暴露自己，那这些行为根本算不上勇敢。

Like, if you're doing things in your life, in your work, and there's no risk, no uncertainty, and no exposure, then they're not brave.

如果你知道结局会怎样，那就不叫勇敢。

If you know how it's going to end, that is not courage.

勇敢就是明知道结果不确定，还愿意全身心投入。

Courage is the willingness to show up and be all in when you cannot predict the outcome.

勇敢就是先说‘我爱你’。

Courage is saying I love you first.

你想知道什么是脆弱吗？

That's you you wanna know what vulnerability is?

先说‘我爱你’。

I love you first.

你有没有主动说过‘我爱你’？

Have you ever said I love you first?

我不太确定。

I'm not sure.

是的。

Yeah.

好一阵子没过了。

It's been a while.

但确实很难。

But it's hard.

你知道的，

It's you know?

对不起。

I'm sorry.

能不能说清楚点？

Just could give context.

我好久没经历过那种情况了。

It's been a while since I've been in that situation.

你毕竟得先开口。

Well, you've had to go first.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们确实得先上。

We've had to go first.

对。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

我说个特别有意思的故事，是关于我在这儿做过的一场演讲。

I mean, there's this great story that I tell about I gave a talk here.

其实那是在洛杉矶。

It was actually in LA.

演讲结束后，有个年轻人走过来找我。

And afterwards, a kid came up to me.

他大概二十二三岁，说：我能跟您讲个故事吗？关于您的作品是怎么改变我的人生的。

He's probably 22 or 23, and he said, can I tell you a story about your work and how it's really changed my life?

我当时就说：当然好啊。

And I was like, sure.

周围渐渐围了一圈人。

And a kind of a crowd grew around.

这大概是最后一次我被人群堵得走不了了——倒也不是多糟糕，只是他跟我说，他当时在跟一个女孩交往，特别着迷她。

And this is like the last time I ever got pinned, like, not being able to exit a stage because it was such a traumatic it wasn't traumatic, but it was like he said, well, I was dating this woman, and I was so crazy about her.

于是他带她去他们最爱的餐厅吃饭。

So I took her to eat to our favorite restaurant.

他一直等到甜点上来，因为他们特别喜欢那个巧克力火山蛋糕。

And I waited until the dessert came because we love this chocolate volcano.

他点了蛋糕，然后对她说：‘我爱你。’

And I ordered it and I said, I love you.

她看着他，说：‘我觉得你真的很棒。’

And she looked at me and she said, I think you're awesome.

但我觉得，我们还是去跟别人约会吧。

And I think we should date other people.

说完，她就叫了辆优步回家了。

And then she Ubered home.

我当时就想，天啊，这真是我听过的最糟的故事了。

And so I was like, goddamn, this is the worst story I've ever heard.

这根本不是个好故事。

This is not a good story.

他说。

And he said

于是我上了车，开车回家。

so I got in my car and I drove home.

一路上，我不断在心里反复念叨：去他的布琳·布朗。

And the whole way home, I just kept saying to myself over and over, fuck Brene Brown.

去他的布琳·布朗。

Fuck Brene Brown.

我当时就想，到底什么时候

I was like, when when does

这故事到底什么时候才转机啊，你说呢？

this when when's the turn on the story, you know?

他说，到家后我推开门走进了公寓。

And he said, got home and I walked into my apartment and I pushed the door open.

我两个室友都在线上。

And both my roommates were wired in.

他们正对着电脑，一抬头就问我：哥们儿，出啥事了？

They were on their computers and they looked up and said, dude, what's going on?

我说，我跟她说我喜欢她。

And he said, I told her I loved her.

她说我太棒了。

And she told me I was awesome.

其中一个室友看着我说：你脑子进水了？

And one of my roommates looked at me and said, what the fuck were you thinking?

事情不是这么办的。

That's not how it works.

你越追她，她越跑。

When you are going toward them, they go away.

所以你总是下意识地往后退。

So you're always kind of going away.

这样一来，他们反而会靠近你。

So they come towards you.

他一听，哦，哦，不对。

And he goes, oh, oh, no.

不对。

No.

我不想变成那种人。

I don't wanna I don't wanna be that dude.

我当时可是鼓足了勇气。

I was daring greatly.

他说，他两个室友一听都眼眶红了，说：干得漂亮，兄弟。

And he said both of his roommates just got teary eyed and went, right on, man.

干得漂亮。

Right on.

没有脆弱，根本谈不上勇气。

Like, there is no courage without vulnerability.

如果你不敢展现真实的自己，怎么好意思说自己勇敢呢？

How can you say you're brave if you're not putting yourself out there?

很多人经历过的事，让他们根本很难敞开心扉。

So many people have been through things which have made it very, very difficult for them to be vulnerable.

昨天我跟一个人聊天，她曾经被背叛过，小时候还一直有依恋问题。

Was, like, speaking to someone yesterday who's was cheated on, bunch of attachment issues in their early childhood.

说来也巧，我跟她聊的时候，问了她一些问题，因为我这个人本来就喜欢深挖。

And funnily enough, when I was talking to her about I was asking her questions about because I'm a very deep person.

这种习惯也延伸到了我的个人生活中。

I this carries over into my personal life.

我问她那些经历，还有别的事情，你知道的。

I was asking her questions about the things, you know, she'd been through whatever else.

她直接就封闭了，我还问她，她当时到底是怎么说的来着？

She just shuts down, and she told me that she she what were the exact words?

她说，她把脆弱看作是一种亲密关系，所以尽量避开，因为她在敞开心扉之前，需要建立非常、非常、非常深的信任。

She said that she finds vulnerability to be a form of intimacy that she tries to stay away from because she needs to really, really, really trust the person before she opens up.

我觉得这在很多人身上都能看到这种趋势。

And I think this is a trend you see across a lot of people.

他们不愿意敞开心扉去建立连接。

They they won't open up enough to form a connection

对。

Mhmm.

因为他们之前敞开心扉的时候受过伤。

Because they've been hurt before by opening up.

所以觉得那样做太可怕了。

And it feels too scary to do that.

结果就是他们单身、孤独、不快乐，等等。

And that results in them being single, alone, unhappy, so on and so on.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你刚才说的那番话包含了很多层意思。

I mean, I think there's there what you said was so loaded with so many things.

首先，脆弱和信任之间存在着一种很有趣的关系。

So first of all, there's this very interesting relationship between vulnerability and trust.

这到底是怎么运作的呢？

And how does that work?

人们总是问我，到底是信任在先，还是脆弱在先？

And people always ask me what comes first, trust or vulnerability.

是我先信任你，然后才向你敞开心扉？

Do I trust you first, then I'm vulnerable?

还是我先表现出脆弱，之后才开始信任你？

Or am I vulnerable first, and then I trust you?

我觉得这是一个缓慢积累的过程。

And I think it's a very slow stacking.

我们一点点地了解彼此。

We get to know each other.

我稍微透露一点。

I share a little bit.

我不会随便分享的，真的。

I don't I don't share, hey.

很高兴认识你，史蒂文。

Nice to meet you, Steven.

我把最黑暗、最痛苦的创伤全告诉你。

Here's my darkest, horrible, most painful trauma.

你明白吗？

You know?

那种所谓的考验，其实是一种自我保护。

Because that that is actually that kind of litmus testing is actually a form of armor.

我丢给你一件东西，可我们的关系还没足够深厚，根本扛不住。

I'm gonna throw something at you that our relationship in no way has been built long enough to hold.

你肯定会离开，而我会用这个来证明：敞开心扉太危险了。

You're going to go away, and I'm going to use that as verification that vulnerability is dangerous.

这其实就是一种测试。

Like, that's litmus testing.

让我证明给你看，你根本不值得信任。

Let me prove to you that you're not trustworthy.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我明白了，你在往后退。

Oh, I see you're backing away.

我本来就是这么想的。

That's what I thought.

我之所以退后，是因为我们还没建立起能承受这种故事的关系。

I'm backing away because we haven't built a relationship that can bear the weight of this story.

我们能不能从小的开始？

Can we start- can we start small?

好的。

Okay.

坦诚，信任。

Vulnerability, trust.

坦诚，信任。

Vulnerability, trust.

坦诚，我觉得在我的工作里，这叫‘打一枪就跑’。

Vulnerability, I think in my work, we call that like the smash and grab.

就是我会突然扔给你一个重磅消息，看你转身就走，然后拿这个当证据。

Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you with something really big and then watch you go away and use it as evidence.

是的。

Yeah.

要说出这句话，得需要非常有经验的人。

And it takes a really skilled person to say, yeah.

我真的很在听你刚才说的。

I'm really I'm taking in what you told me.

我想尊重并珍视你这份信任。

I wanna be respectful and honor that.

但我现在没法妥善处理，因为我们还不够了解彼此。

And I don't have a way to file it right now because I don't know you well enough.

我很感谢你愿意分享，其实我们管这叫‘打光’。

So I appreciate the share I mean, we also call it spotlighting.

比如说，如果我手里有个军用级的强光手电——我经常和军队合作。

So, like, if I had a military grade spotlight that they use in the wilderness I work with the military a lot.

我把它拿起来，直接照在你脸上，你身体上会有什么反应？

And I I picked it up and put it in your face right here, what would you do physically?

这就是我们对过快暴露脆弱的反应。

That's what that's our reaction to too much vulnerability too fast.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Like, yeah.

我不太确定。

I don't know.

我不了解你。

I don't know you.

是的。

Yeah.

你讲的是勇气、脆弱和信任一点一点积累的过程。

So you're talking about the slow stacking of courage and of vulnerability and trust.

你还提到，当我们经历了很多艰难的事之后，我认为这正是心理咨询和治疗变得普及的原因——很多时候，我们需要与人一起面对。

And then you're also talking about that when when we've had a lot of hard things happen to us, I think this is where I really believe the democratization of coaching and therapy, that a lot of times we have to work with people.

我们得寻求帮助，才能放下那些层层包裹的盔甲，因为有时候，这些盔甲其实是保命用的。

Like, we have to get help to be able to open up and take off some of the armor that we put on because sometimes that armor that we put on is freaking survival.

而且你还要考虑更多变量，比如种族、性别，任何涉及社会体系影响的因素。

I mean, and you wanna start adding variables like race, gender, like, you know, any anything where there's social systems also at play.

这本身就是一种生存策略。

That's survival.

就拿我现在的工作来说吧，有人会跟我说：

Like, telling me right now at my career, like, hey.

你应该对新团队敞开心扉，谈谈你过去的失败。

You should be vulnerable with your new team and and talk about your previous failures.

你知道的。

You know?

当然，我完全可以这么做。

Well, of course, I could do that.

我也的确会去做，大家还会鼓掌，心里想：天啊，真了不起。

And I would do it, and everybody would clap, and they'd think, oh, man.

她真的很有勇气。

She's so brave.

再比如新来的年轻黑人女性，或是团队里第一个LGBTQ成员，你跟他们说：嘿。

And take the new person who's a young black woman or the new first LGBTQ person on a team and say, hey.

别跟任何人吐露心声。

Tell tell every don't don't tell anybody shit.

先建立信任。

Develop trust first.

慢慢培养信任，同时观察这个团队是否真正对自己行为负责。

Develop, see how how trust your own instincts about the accountability of this group to hold themselves accountable for their behavior.

脆弱对每个人来说都同样重要，但对某些人来说，确实要难得多。

Like, vulnerability is not more necessary for any of us than anybody else, but certainly more difficult for other for for some people, for sure.

我觉得最难、最痛苦的地方在于，不管你为什么披上这层铠甲，没有脆弱，你就永远无法触及生命中最珍贵的体验。

And I think what's hard about that, what's so painful, probably the most painful part of my career, is that regardless of why the armor is on, without vulnerability, you cannot access the experiences that are the most meaningful in life.

爱。

Love.

爱一个人，就是从早上醒来到晚上睡觉，你都敞开着心扉。

To love someone is to be vulnerable from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed.

你心里清楚这一点。

You know that.

你正处于一段关系中。

You're in a relationship.

去爱，就意味着要展现脆弱。

To love is to be vulnerable.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Mhmm.

你有没有送别过你深爱的人？

And have you ever buried someone you loved?

我两年前失去了妈妈。

Like, I lost my mom two years ago.

比如我的孩子，就像把心放在身体外面跳动一样。

Like, my kids, it's like having your heart live outside of your body.

爱就是脆弱，因为这意味着要面对悲伤和失去的风险。

Like, to love is to be vulnerable because it's to risk grief and losing.

归属感也是一种脆弱。

Belonging is vulnerable.

最脆弱的人类情感，就是喜悦。

The most the most vulnerable human emotion, joy.

喜悦如此脆弱，以至于当我们接近它时，有些人会提前演练悲剧，好为失望做准备。

Joy is so vulnerable that when some of us get close to it, we dress rehearse tragedy to prepare for disappointment.

它太脆弱了，我们甚至不敢让自己真正感受喜悦，就怕有人突然把它夺走，让我们猝不及防地被失望击倒。

Like, it's so vulnerable that we don't even let ourselves feel joy because we're so afraid someone's gonna rip it away and we're gonna get sucker punched by disappointment.

对不对？

Yes or no?

对啊。

Like Yeah.

有些人宁愿活在失望里，也不敢去期待什么，生怕自己会失望。

People choose to live disappointed rather than to feel disappoint risk feeling disappointed and get excited about something.

你知道吗？我孩子小时候第一次跟我分享他们的想法时，就是那样。

You know, it's like the first time my kids shared with me when they were young.

跟我们那代人不一样，但他们真的特别想加入这个团队，妈妈。

Certainly not the way I was raised, but, you know, I really, really wanna make this team, mom.

我当时停下来说：你敢这么坦诚地说出自己这么想要的东西，哪怕根本没法控制结果，这真的需要勇气。

And I said, I wanna pause you for a second and tell you how brave it is to talk openly about something you want so much when you don't have control over whether you get it or not.

我支持你，不是因为我想让你赢，而是因为你真的想要。

I want I want it for you because you want it.

不管结果如何，我都佩服你有勇气去追求，并且勇敢地说出来。

But regardless of what happens, I admire your courage for wanting something and sharing out loud that you want it.

因为如果你没得到，我知道那会是巨大的打击。

Because if you don't get it, I'll know that it was a crushing blow.

但那也没关系，因为无论发生什么，我都会在你身边。

But that's so great because I'll be here for you when that happens either way.

所以我们，我，我其实特别喜欢用‘预支的喜悦’这个词来形容这种感觉。

So we and I and I'm really I'm a really I'm we call it foreboding joy.

这种喜悦太美好了，可我们就是忍不住等着坏事降临。

That joy is so good We're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

有创伤经历的人，往往都是这样。

And people who have trauma histories are really like that.

就拿我来说，小时候家里就是这样的，一有好事发生，我就心里一紧：天啊，这下该出什么事了？

Like, for me because the way I was raised, when something good happens, I'm like, oh god.

接下来会出什么幺蛾子？

Now what's gonna happen?

按概率来说，坏事肯定马上就到。

Statistically, bad shit's gonna roll around any second now.

有意思的是，我们研究的那群人里，只有他们能真正接纳这种身体上的那种颤栗感。

And it's interesting because the group of people that we researched, the only group of people that could take that you know, there's a bodily quiver.

对吧？

Right?

那种脆弱感。

The vulnerability.

你有没有过这种感觉？

Do you have you felt it?

有。

Yeah.

确实有。

Yeah.

真正能持续拥抱喜悦的人，恰恰是那些把那种颤抖当作提醒，提醒自己要感恩、能在那一刻练习感恩的人。

The only people that can really lean into joy consistently are people who use that vulnerability quiver as a reminder to be grateful, to be able to practice gratitude in that second.

所以，感恩是激发喜悦的关键。

So gratitude is a huge enabler of joy.

这是本能反应吗？还是可以后天培养的？

Is that automatic, or can one train that?

不行。

No.

这需要练习。

It's a training.

天哪。

Oh, shit.

不是。

No.

我记得站在家门口，看着我16岁的女儿穿着礼服，挽着男朋友走在人行道上，然后上了他的卡车去参加毕业舞会。

I had to I I I mean, standing at my front door watching my 16 year old daughter walk down the sidewalk with her boyfriend in high school and get in his truck for for prom.

对吧？

Right?

我就站在那儿，心里想，

And I'm standing there, and I'm like,

天啊。

oh god.

我当时到底在担心什么呢？

And you know, what am I worried about?

毕业舞会那天晚上。

Prom night.

就像一场车祸一样。

Like, car wreck.

当然，每当我讲这个故事，军方总是第一时间想到怀孕。

Of course, when I tell the story, the military is always like, pregnancy.

我说，不是，不是，不是，不是。

I'm like, no, no, no, no.

是车祸。

Car wreck.

我就记得我站在那儿，看着她上了车。

So I just remember staying there, and she gets in.

我站在史蒂夫和查理旁边，我儿子，那时候他才十岁。

And and I'm staying next to Steve and Charlie, my my son's you know, at this time, he's 10.

我当时心里特别感激。

And I'm like, I'm so grateful.

我真的很感恩。

I'm so grateful.

我珍惜这一刻。

I'm grateful for this moment.

我很庆幸自己能参与其中。

I'm grateful that I'm a part of it.

我很感激他们把胸花和袖扣都准备在这儿。

I'm grateful that they did the corsage and the boutonniere over here.

我很庆幸能帮着挑裙子。

I'm grateful that I got to help pick out the dress.

我真的很感恩。

I'm so grateful.

查理看着史蒂夫，问了句。

And Charlie goes looks at Steve.

妈妈怎么了？

What's wrong with mom?

Steve说，她在练习感恩呢。

And Steve goes, she's she's practicing gratitude.

让她去吧。

Let her do it.

不然她就要钻牛角尖了。

Otherwise, she's gonna get on a crazy train.

接下来肯定全是养生那套。

It's gonna be all health.

说实话，我心里其实有点想说，天哪。

And, you know, like because part of me wants to say, oh god.

天哪。

Oh god.

可这又那么美好，那么开心。

Like, it's so beautiful and so joyful.

赶紧上车，跟着他们走。

And get in your truck and follow them right now.

如果他超速了，我得知道这件事。

If he's speeding, I wanna know about it.

如果他没在停车标志前完全停下，就一直盯着他，直到这个期限结束。

If he's not stopping fully to stop sign, follow them until this date is over.

你知道吗，我就想这么做，因为我害怕——那个瞬间的快乐对我来说太强烈了，太容易让人敞开心扉了。

You know, that's that's what I wanna do because I'm afraid because that the joy of that moment was just too much for me, Too vulnerable.

看来你已经克服了以前布琳·布朗的那些特质？

It appears you've overcome various traits of old Brene Brown?

没有。

No.

我正在克服。

I'm overcoming.

克服？

Overcoming?

没有。

No.

我还没过，我根本没有克服。

I'm not over I I have not overcome.

你克服了什么吗？

Have you overcome anything?

有。

Yes.

我克服了那种‘我会克服一切’的念头。

The belief that I will overcome anything.

我已经放下了‘我终将抵达’这个信念，连同它之前的那个信念。

I've overcome the belief that I've overcome the belief that I will ever arrive.

我很感激自己新学到的那些能力，它们让我更贴近想成为的那个人——作为母亲、伴侣和领导者。

I am grateful for the skills that I have that are new skills, that keep me more aligned with the person, the mom, the partner, the leader that I wanna be.

但我时时刻刻都很清醒。

But I I am mindful all the time.

我时刻提醒自己，当我害怕时，我会显得很吓人；我很容易把事情想得最糟，这会让身边的人很难受。

I try to stay very mindful that I am scary when I'm scared, that I catastrophize very, very easily, and that's painful for everybody around me.

我不需要别人喜欢我。

And I don't need to be liked.

我只需要做自己。

I just need to be myself.

其实这些想法，就在两天前，我还坐那儿想，天哪。

Like but those are things because I will I will sit down, like, two days ago and be like, oh my god.

在这儿讨人喜欢简直太容易了。

It'd be so freaking easy to be liked here.

我觉得这根本就是小菜一碟。

I was like, this will be this would be a piece of cake.

可我心里明白，不行。

And I'm like, shit.

我现在不会再这么做了。

I don't do that anymore.

真遗憾。

Bummer.

两天前？

Two days ago?

是的。

Yeah.

领先于什么？

Ahead of what?

就是跟一群我知道该怎么讨好他们的人在一起。

Just with a group of people that I knew what it would take to be liked.

你选择了

And you made the choice

做自己。

to Just to be myself.

做自己。

Be yourself.

对。

Yeah.

为什么？

Why?

因为最后我要背叛的人，是我自己。

Because now the person I'm gonna betray last is me.

老兄，我希望还能再见到你，但其实也没那么重要。

Man, I hope I see you again, but not that important.

有些人可能会觉得，得知自己或许永远无法改变那些迫切想改掉的部分，实在有点让人沮丧。

Some people might find that somewhat demoralizing to know that they they too might never cure parts of themselves that they're desperate to change.

我觉得人们常常听这种播客，或者读你这样的书，是想找办法解决‘我不喜欢自己’‘我无法处理自己的情绪’这些问题。

I think people, you know, they often come to podcasts like this or read books like yours looking for solution fixes to not liking myself, to the way that I react to my emotions.

他们想把这些问题修好。

They wanna fix it.

因为他们觉得，只要修好了，就能开心了。

Because if they can fix it, then they can be happy.

我觉得这根本不在考虑范围内，原因其实特别美好。

I don't think that's in the consideration set for a very beautiful reason.

如果我们能彻底解决这些问题，再也不用和它们较劲，那我们对别人就会缺乏足够的宽容，甚至变得专横。

That if we could fix it and never have to wrestle with it again, we would be so short on grace for other people that we would be tyrants.

所以你觉得这反而会让人对他人产生同理心？

So you think it it creates a form of empathy for others?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我确实有很明确的界限。

I mean, like, I'm not gonna I have, like, really serious boundaries.

我一向很注重界限。

I'm a very boundary person.

但当我看到有人做出某种行为时，我心里就会想：哼，我骨子里的那点阴暗，一眼就看穿了你内心的阴暗。

But when I see someone behaving a certain way, I was like, ugh, my asshole sees your inner asshole right here.

我明白你是在做什么。

I get I get I get what you're doing.

但我不会容忍这种行为。

I'm not gonna tolerate it.

我会在这方面设个界限。

I'm gonna set a boundary around it.

但我并不是在因此评判你。

But I'm not really judging you for it.

只是这种行为在这里是不可接受的。

It's just that behavior is not okay right here.

那你现在喜欢自己吗？

But you like yourself now?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我喜欢。

I do.

我确实喜欢。

I I yeah.

我确实喜欢。

I do.

我确实喜欢。

I do.

我觉得我可以这么说，我喜欢自己正在变成的样子。

I can I can can think I can say that pretty I like what I'm becoming?

对于那些不喜欢自己的人来说，要达到你现在这种状态，需要经历些什么呢？

And for anyone that doesn't like themselves, what what workers had to go into getting to the point where you like what you're you're becoming?

我认为，过去二十五年我的研究中最重要的一项发现是，阻碍我们勇敢面对生活和工作的，不是恐惧。

I think the hardest is maybe one of the biggest findings of my research over the last twenty five years is it's not fear that gets in the way of us being brave with our lives and our work.

而是防御。

It's armor.

每个人都会害怕。

Everybody's afraid.

害怕是正常的。

It's okay to be afraid.

真正危险的是，当我们害怕时，为了自我保护而披上的那层盔甲，它让我们远离了爱、连接和内心的价值。

What's dangerous is the armor that we reach for to self protect when we're afraid and how that armor moves us away from love, connection, and our values.

所以我觉得，最难的事就是，对我而言，时刻觉察自己到底在用什么样的盔甲。

And so I think the hardest work is, for me, constantly being aware of what is my armor.

我害怕的时候，究竟在抓着什么不放？

What am I what am I grabbing for when I'm afraid?

当我想要保护自己的价值感、保护自尊时，我又在抓着什么？

What am I grabbing for when I wanna protect my sense of self worth, my ego?

而且，这玩意儿有多沉重啊。

Like and and how heavy that shit is.

你知道吗？过去我不得不穿上它，因为那曾是我成长过程中活下去的方式。

You know, at some point, I had to wear it because that was survival for me growing up.

但这就是中年最大的转折点，你现在正站在这个关口——当宇宙一把抓住你的肩膀，把你拉到跟前，认真地说：我这次真的不跟你开玩笑了。

But this is the big this is the big developmental milestone of middle age, which you are squarely entering, which is when the universe grabs you by the shoulders and pulls you really close and says, I'm not fucking around anymore.

你已经收到了礼物。

They gave you gifts.

选择不去成长，这不是无害的。

Choosing not to grow into them is not benign.

这背后是有代价的，你的盔甲正在阻碍你。

There's a consequence for that, and your armor is getting in the way.

你现在是个成年人了。

You're a grown ass person now.

你有了不同的选择。

You have different choices.

放下那些不再为你服务的东西。

Let go of what doesn't serve.

我认为，这就是中年必须面对的重大转折点。

And that is the big milestone, I think, that we have to wrestle with in midlife.

哪些旧东西已经不再有用，却还在拖累你，让你无法成为你想成为的人。

What no longer serves that's preventing us from growing into who we wanna be.

那脆弱感是不是就出现在这里？

And is that where vulnerability comes into the picture?

因为这一点

Because that

当然了。

Oh, for sure.

所有的盔甲其实都跟脆弱有关。

Because all the armor all the armor is about vulnerability.

这需要极大的自我觉察，我本来想说，

It requires a huge amount of, I was gonna say self awareness

没错。

Yes.

有些人可能根本做不到，也永远做不到。

That some people just don't could probably never accomplish.

我的意思是，

I mean

所以我觉得隐喻很有帮助。

So I think metaphor is helpful.