The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - 最常回放片段:大型制药公司不愿让你知道的抗生素替代品! 封面

最常回放片段:大型制药公司不愿让你知道的抗生素替代品!

Most Replayed Moment: The Antibiotic Alternative Big Pharma Doesn't Want You To Know!

本集简介

西蒙·米尔斯是英国顶尖的草药医学专家之一,也是现代草药医学的先驱。 此刻,西蒙将解释为何抗生素并非总是最佳选择——以及传统医学几个世纪以来采用的替代方案。从滥用抗生素的潜在风险,到利用植物自制简易天然疗法,他揭示了一种全然不同的治疗理念。 收听完整节目: Spotify: https://g2ul0.app.link/RDxRs9U9m1b Apple: https://g2ul0.app.link/goByfXY9m1b YouTube观看全集: https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos 西蒙·米尔斯个人主页:https://www.herbalreality.com/writer/simon-mills/

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Speaker 0

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Speaker 0

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Speaker 0

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Speaker 0

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Bitter herbs have been used for centuries to support digestive function, helping stimulate digestive activity.

Speaker 0

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Just a few pumps before meals make Quicksilver Scientific's Bitter X easy to add to your routine.

Speaker 0

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Speaker 0

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Speaker 0

这些声明未经美国食品药品监督管理局评估。

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

Speaker 0

本产品不用于诊断、治疗、治愈或预防任何疾病。

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Speaker 1

因此,我认为滥用、过量使用或不当使用抗生素主要有三个风险:一是对肠道微生物组的影响,二是加剧抗生素耐药性的上升,三是

So there's sort of three things that I've I've been able to ascertain as risks of misuse or overuse or inappropriate use of antibiotics, which is the impact on the gut microbiome, the you're contributing to the rise in antibiotic resistance, and

Speaker 2

这些是主要的问题。

Those are the main things.

Speaker 1

我想,即使患上疾病,你的恢复速度也会变慢,因为你体内已经产生了耐药性。

I guess even with the diseases you get, you'll be slower to heal because you're less if you've got that resistance.

Speaker 2

这确实是我们在长期患病人群中观察到的现象之一。

That is one of the things that we do see, particularly those who are long term ill.

Speaker 2

我们知道,他们的愈合能力会有所下降。

We know that they lose some of the healing capacity.

Speaker 2

我所做的大量工作,就是试图恢复这些受损的功能。

And that's so much of the work I do is to aim to put some of that right.

Speaker 1

这和结直肠癌之间也有联系吗?

And there's links to colorectal cancers?

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

好吧,这就是重点,因为我们正在讨论微生物组。

Well, that's it because we're talking about the microbiome, see.

Speaker 2

所以这些是下消化道的癌症。

So those are the cancers in the lower gut.

Speaker 2

我们知道,微生物组在肠道健康中起着关键作用。

And we know that the microbiome is a major factor in how well the gut is.

Speaker 2

像克罗恩病、溃疡性结肠炎和结肠癌,都与微生物组的状态密切相关。

So things like Crohn's and ulcerative colitis and cancer of the bowel, very closely linked to the state of the microbiome.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

那么,在植物界或这个表格中,有没有可以替代抗生素的选项?我是否应该考虑这些替代方案,而不是对任何不适都直接使用抗生素?

So are there alternatives on this table or in the world of plants to antibiotics that I should maybe also consider instead of just jumping straight to antibiotics for everything that I experience?

Speaker 2

有。

Yes.

Speaker 2

如果你有严重的肠道或其他感染,可能需要使用抗生素。

If you've got a serious gut or other infection, you may need the antibiotics.

Speaker 2

所以让我们先明确这一点。

So let's put that straight away.

Speaker 2

但如果你得了感冒、流感、病毒性问题,尤其是呼吸道感染,A,抗生素完全无效。

But if you've got a cold, flu, virus, viral problem, particularly the airways, A, antibiotics will have no use at all.

Speaker 2

而且B,正如我们刚才所说,它们只会增加更多风险。

And B, as as we just said, they just add to the risk of more.

Speaker 2

因为每次使用抗生素,你都会促使那些对该抗生素产生耐药性的细菌种群逐渐增长。

Because every time you take an antibiotic, you're growing a small population of that, of the species of bacteria that's affected who are resistant to that.

Speaker 2

这是自然选择。

It's natural selection.

Speaker 2

你体内有上千个细菌,按它们的标准来看这只是少量,而你杀死了其中的999个。

You you have a thousand little bacteria, that's a small amount by their terms, and you kill nine ninety nine of them.

Speaker 2

幸存下来的那一个会在二十分钟内变成两个,四十分钟内变成四个,突然间就形成一个新的种群。

The one that survives will then become two in twenty minutes and four in forty minutes and suddenly become a new population.

Speaker 2

所以我避开了这个问题。

And I duck that bullet.

Speaker 2

因此,这一群细菌已经具有抗性了。

And so that group of bacteria will already be resistant.

Speaker 2

所以我们每次使用抗生素,都在制造抗性。

So we're creating resistance every time we use an antibody.

Speaker 2

那我们不妨试试别的方法,好吗?

So let's try then doing something else, shall we?

Speaker 2

假设你感冒了。

So let's say you've got a cold.

Speaker 2

你感到有感冒的症状。

You're feeling the cold.

Speaker 2

顺便说一下,这个名字起得挺好。

It's got a good name by the way.

Speaker 2

所以,当你感冒时,感到寒冷就是感冒的症状之一。

So cold is one of the things you feel when you've got a cold.

Speaker 2

这很有趣,因为在过去,我们没有检测手段,没有实验室,没有急救人员,也没有人往你身体里戳东西。

And that's interesting because in former times we didn't have tests, we didn't have laboratories, we didn't have paramedics, we didn't have people poking things in you.

Speaker 2

我们所能知道的,只是自己的感受。

All we could know is what it felt like.

Speaker 2

当你感冒时,常常会感到寒冷、发抖,想裹紧被子,想喝热水或泡个热水澡,所有这些在古语中都意味着你身体发冷。

And when you've got a cold, you often feel cold and you feel chills and you want to wrap up and you want hot water or you want to have a hot bath, all that in the old language meant that you were cold.

Speaker 2

而你需要做的,就是让自己暖和起来。

And what you needed to do was to heat up.

Speaker 2

现在来看看这个东西,这是生姜。

Now you take this fella, this is ginger.

Speaker 2

它在全球广泛种植。

It's grown widely around the world.

Speaker 2

在它原产的亚洲形态中,早在罗马时代就已灭绝。

In its original Asian form, it was made extinct around the time of the Romans.

Speaker 2

它曾经有多受欢迎?

So popular was it?

Speaker 2

从那以后,这种姜的所有香气都只能来自根茎,因为它不再自行播种。

And ever since, all the ginger scents of this species has got to be going from rootstock because it no longer seeds itself.

Speaker 2

因此,这种姜在干燥状态下成为有史以来最有价值的天然商品,价值超过其重量的黄金。

So this has been the most valuable natural commodity ever in its dried form worth more than its weight in gold.

Speaker 2

欧洲人之所以最终来到亚洲,统治印度,荷兰人占领印度尼西亚等等,就是因为这些东西原产于此。

And the reason why all those Europeans ended up in Asia and running India and the Dutch and Indonesia and so on, is because that's where these things came from.

Speaker 2

香料就是从这里来的。

That's where the spices came from.

Speaker 2

于是,我们像优秀的资本家一样,决定掌控这项生意。

So we decided, like good capitalists to go and control the business.

Speaker 2

因此,姜在这里变得非常受欢迎,因为我们这里根本没有类似的东西。

So ginger became very popular over here because we don't have nothing like it over here.

Speaker 2

我们最接近的替代品是辣根,但我向你保证,它完全无法替代这种姜。

The nearest thing we got is horseradish, which I promise you is no substitute for this.

Speaker 2

那么,我们该如何使用它呢?

So how do we use this?

Speaker 2

我们这里有一块姜,大小跟你的拇指差不多。

We've got a knob of ginger here about the size of your thumb.

Speaker 2

这差不多是一剂合适的量。

That's about a good dose.

Speaker 2

把新鲜的姜磨碎放进杯子里。

You grate it fresh ginger into a mug.

Speaker 1

你能帮我做一下吗?

Can you do that for me?

Speaker 2

我有个磨碎器。

Got a grater.

Speaker 1

我也有个磨碎器。

I've got a grater

Speaker 2

给你用。

for you.

Speaker 2

所以我们这里有一块姜,我说,大小跟你的拇指差不多。

So we've got here a piece of ginger, I say, about the size of your thumb.

Speaker 2

拇指是个很好的衡量标准,因为这是你自己的尺寸。

The thumb's a good measure because it's your measure.

Speaker 2

如果你身材娇小,你的拇指也会比较小。

So if you're a small person, you'll have a small thumb.

Speaker 2

但我个子比较大,所以我会用更多一点,而且这里确实有点乱。

But I'm a bigger person, so I'm gonna use and you literally it's making a bit of a mess here.

Speaker 2

但你在家里做这个的时候,不太会在意有点乱。

But when you're doing this at home, you don't mind a bit of mess.

Speaker 2

你直接在杯子里磨碎姜,磨得真不错,对吧?

So you're literally grating and grates nicely, doesn't it, into a mug.

Speaker 2

假设这就是整个拇指的量了,我不想在这上面花太多时间。

And let's say that was the whole thumb, I don't want to take up too much time on this.

Speaker 2

和姜搭配效果特别好的是肉桂。

And then the one thing that works brilliantly with ginger is cinnamon.

Speaker 2

这种肉桂你在任何商店都能买到。

Now this is cinnamon you buy in any shop.

Speaker 2

它有不同形式。

It comes in different forms.

Speaker 2

有一种来自中国的叫肉桂,看起来像一大片卷曲的树皮。

There's one from China called cassia, which looks like one big curled bark.

Speaker 2

如果你看这个,会发现它紧密卷曲,有很多细小的卷须和纤维。

If you look at this one, you'll see that it's tightly wrapped with lots of little curl, lots of little filaments in it.

Speaker 2

你就选这种。

That's the one you go for.

Speaker 2

它更芳香。

It's got, it's more aromatic.

Speaker 2

你可以用香料磨粉机磨碎,或者用一茶匙。

And you either grate that with, if you've a spice mill, or you take a teaspoon of it.

Speaker 2

假设有一茶匙,你把它放进你的

Let's say there's a teaspoonful, and you put that in your

Speaker 1

马克杯。

mug.

Speaker 1

所以这就是姜和肉桂。

So that's ginger and cinnamon.

Speaker 2

姜和肉桂。

Ginger and cinnamon.

Speaker 2

就是这样。

That's it.

Speaker 2

然后你加入热水。

Then you add your hot water.

Speaker 2

你是认真的吧?

You're going for real, right?

Speaker 1

我要选正宗的。

I'm going for the real one.

Speaker 2

干得漂亮。

Good on you.

Speaker 2

这时候用滤网很有用。

At this point, a sieve is useful.

Speaker 1

为什么?

Why?

Speaker 1

什么

What

Speaker 2

呢?

for?

Speaker 2

因为这会

Because it's gonna

Speaker 1

变得

be

Speaker 2

里面全是碎屑。

it's full of Oh, bits.

Speaker 2

碎屑。

Bits.

Speaker 2

然后假设这是一个漂亮的日本玉绿茶杯,但我们就说这是你的杯子,我们倒一点进去。

And then let's say this is this is a nice Japanese yacht green tea mug, but let's say this is your mug, and we'll pour a little bit in there.

Speaker 2

你看到你留下的所有东西了吗?

You see all the stuff that you leave behind?

Speaker 2

是的,看到了。

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2

哦,好吧。

Oh, okay.

Speaker 2

如果你不介意共用一个杯子的话。

And if you don't mind sharing a mug.

Speaker 1

那这里面是什么?

So what's in here?

Speaker 1

这只有姜和肉桂。

This is Just ginger and cinnamon.

Speaker 1

只有姜和肉桂。

Just ginger and cinnamon.

Speaker 2

味道有点淡。

It's fairly weak.

Speaker 2

哦,它

Oh, it

Speaker 1

不过挺好的。

is nice though.

Speaker 1

确实很好。

It is nice.

Speaker 2

现在你能感觉到它已经暖和起来了吗?

Now can you feel it warming already?

Speaker 1

是的,立刻就感受到了。

Yes, straight away.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

真的很棒。

It's really nice.

Speaker 2

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

现在你看到的情况是,姜就是一个例子,它属于一组疗法,其中包括姜黄,还有那边的另一种根茎。

Now you see what's happening there is that you I mean, ginger is an example of a group of remedies, which includes turmeric by the way, and that's other root, the other root there.

Speaker 1

哦,这个是。

Oh, this one.

Speaker 2

这是姜黄。

That's turmeric.

Speaker 2

它通常呈现为黄色粉末状。

It's normally seen in a yellow powder.

Speaker 2

我们稍后可能会谈到这个。

We might talk about that later.

Speaker 2

还有黑胡椒和辣椒。

And black pepper and chilies.

Speaker 2

我这里有个辣椒。

I've got a chili here.

Speaker 2

当你吃它们的时候,你会觉得好像嘴巴在燃烧,对吧?

Which when you take them, you think you're burning your mouth, aren't you?

Speaker 2

有趣的是,这里并没有灼烧感。

The interesting thing is that there's no burning.

Speaker 2

你完全可以食用正宗马德拉斯辣度的辣椒,而你的黏膜不会受到任何伤害,因为根本不存在灼烧现象。

You can actually have full Madras level chili and no harm will be done to your lining because there's no burning going on.

Speaker 2

你实际上是在刺激痛觉纤维。

What you're doing is you're stimulating the pain fibers.

Speaker 2

所以你的口腔黏膜里遍布着痛觉纤维。

So you got pain fibers all the way through the lining of the mouth.

Speaker 2

当你摄入像生姜这样的刺激性物质时,它会刺激痛觉纤维,随即引发一种我们称之为反射反应的现象,使血管扩张。

When you take a hot thing like ginger, it's stimulating the pain fibers and immediately there's a, what we call a reflex response, which opens up the blood vessels.

Speaker 2

这被称为充血,即血流量增加。

It's called hyperemia, more blood.

Speaker 2

这些黏膜表面的血管——你刚吞下去的那些,以及延伸到鼻腔的血管——都会扩张开来。

And the vessels lining these mucosa, the ones that you just swallowed and then screwing a little bit up in the nasal passages, are opening up.

Speaker 2

分泌黏液的细胞会变得松动,产生更多稀薄的黏液,从而帮助冲刷掉黏膜上的污垢。

The mucus cells producing mucus will loosen up and you get more runny mucus, which is helping to flush through the grot on the mucosa.

Speaker 2

你主要感受到的是温暖。

And the main thing you feel is the warmth.

Speaker 2

如果你的肺部有问题,你会开始把更多痰液从气道中排出。

And if you're dealing with something down here in the lungs, you'll actually start bringing up more gunk up the airways.

Speaker 2

人体有一个天然的清除机制,用来把肺里的异物排出,而这种机制会被激活。

There's a natural escalator that we use to, that the body uses to get stuff out of the lungs that's stimulated.

Speaker 2

肉桂和生姜的搭配,我想是天堂里创造出来的。

And the mixture of cinnamon and ginger was created, I think in heaven.

Speaker 2

我的意思是,这两种食材天然互补,任何人都可以轻松做到。

I mean, I think there's such a natural compliment and anybody can do that.

Speaker 2

关键在于,它具有温热的特性。

And the point about it is that it's warming.

Speaker 2

在过去,这一点至关重要。

And in the old days, that was the key thing.

Speaker 2

无论你是头痛、关节痛还是痛经,都无关紧要。

It didn't matter if you had a headache or a joint pain or a menstrual cramp.

Speaker 2

如果你想要在上面放个热水袋或加热它,那就说明是寒症。

If you wanted to put a hot water bottle on it or heat it up, then that was a cold problem.

Speaker 2

使用温热的药物就会开始产生效果。

And putting a heating medicine would begin to make a difference.

Speaker 2

所以,如果你头痛,想用热敷包敷在上面,也可以用同样的方法。

So you can use the same thing if you have a headache and you want to put a hot pack on it.

Speaker 2

如果你有痛经,想在腹部放个热水袋,也可以用同样的方法。

If you've a menstrual cramp and you want to put a hot water bottle on it.

Speaker 2

如果你有关节疼痛,想用温热药膏涂抹,也可以用同样的方法。

If you've got a joint pain and you want to put a heating liniment on it, you can use the same thing.

Speaker 2

生姜。

Ginger.

Speaker 2

仅仅因为它具有温热的特性。

Just because it's heating.

Speaker 2

这就是简单古老的疗法。

And that's simple, old medicine.

Speaker 1

所以当你经历不同类型的疼痛或受寒时,肉桂和生姜是有帮助的吗?

So when you're experiencing different types of pain or a cold, then cinnamon and ginger are good?

Speaker 2

我想我的意思是,只有当它对热有反应时才有效。

I think my Well, only if it responds to heat.

Speaker 2

现在,如果你想要敷冰袋,我的意思是,老医生们遇到偏头痛患者时,会问:你更喜欢热敷还是冰敷来缓解偏头痛?

Now, if you want to put an ice pack on, I mean, the old doctors, when someone came with a migraine, would say, tell me, would you prefer a hot pack or an ice pack for your migraine?

Speaker 2

偏头痛患者通常七三开,70%的人偏好热敷,但有三分之一的偏头痛患者实际上更想要冰袋。

And migraine sufferers generally split seventythirty, preferring heat to 70, but a third of people with migraines actually want a cold pack.

Speaker 2

你不能用生姜来处理那种情况。

You don't use ginger for that.

Speaker 2

你应该用清凉的疗法,我们稍后可能会谈到。

You use cooling remedies, which we might come on to later.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

我女朋友一直喝姜茶。

My girlfriend, she drinks ginger tea all the time.

Speaker 1

几乎每天。

Almost every day.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

她喜欢热的。

She likes the heat.

Speaker 1

她喜欢热的。

She likes the heat.

Speaker 1

她睡前也会喝。

She drinks it before bed as well.

Speaker 2

如果真是这样,它可以帮助睡眠。

It can help with sleep if that's the way it goes.

Speaker 2

我的意思是,每个人都不一样,有些人完全不能接受生姜,因为他们的胃会排斥,或者因为它真的太热了,会让他们过于兴奋。

I mean, people are different and there are some people who can't take ginger at all because their stomach objects or because it literally heats up too much, they get stimulated by it.

Speaker 2

但这就是个体差异所在。

But that's where the individuality comes in.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

所以,任何我需要温热效果的情况,都可以首先考虑姜和肉桂吗?

So any condition where I might be looking for heat, ginger and cinnamon?

Speaker 1

首选方案。

First place to go.

Speaker 1

首选方案。

First place to go.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

如果你想搞点德克萨斯-墨西哥风味,也可以加辣椒。

You could, if you wanted to be Tex Mex, can take the chilies.

Speaker 2

我们通常认为辣椒是更极端的温热食材,并提醒自己,直到欧洲人发现美洲后,辣椒才传到这里使用。

Well, we think of them as a much more extreme version of the heating and remind ourselves, it was only when Europeans discovered Americas that chilies became used over here.

Speaker 2

你能想象没有番茄和辣椒的意大利餐吗?

Can you imagine an Italian meal without tomatoes and chilies?

Speaker 2

但在过去,这些东西都没有,因为它们都来自美洲。

But in the old days, there were none of those because they all came from America.

Speaker 2

但辣椒是美洲版的生姜,用于相同的目的。

But the chilies were the American equivalent of ginger, used for the same purpose.

Speaker 1

如果有人来找你,说西蒙,我什么时候该把辣椒用作药物呢?

If someone comes to you and they say, Simon, when shall I use chilies as a form of medication?

Speaker 1

你会怎么说?

What would you say?

Speaker 2

首先,我还不知道。

First of I don't know yet.

Speaker 2

如果我正在与远处的人打交道,比如在线上或电话里,他们问,我该试什么?

And if I'm dealing with someone at a distance, you know, online or on the phone or something and they say, you know, what should I try?

Speaker 2

我会说,首先要弄清楚情况。

I said, the first thing to do is you figure it out.

Speaker 2

你可以从草药茶开始。

You could start with herbal teas.

Speaker 2

你是,别

You are, don't

Speaker 1

你?

you?

Speaker 1

我要把它放进这里。

I'm gonna drop it into the I'm gonna drop it into here.

Speaker 1

这是个坏主意吗?

Is that a bad idea?

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

不是。

No.

Speaker 2

去做吧。

Go for it.

Speaker 2

但你会注意到,这应该会相当热。

But you'll you'll you should notice that should be quite a hot one.

Speaker 2

我建议他们从草本茶开始,因为草本茶的剂量很低,但能帮你找到适合自己的类型。

I will ask suggest that they start with herbal teas because herbal teas are a very low dose, but they'll allow you to figure out what suits you.

Speaker 2

正如我之前暗示的,传统药物常分为更温热的和更清凉的,我们现在分别称之为促进循环和促进消化。

And you can divide as I was hinting at earlier, old medicines were often divided into those that were more warming, we would now call stimulating circulation and more cooling, which we would now translate as stimulating digestion.

Speaker 2

而你更偏好哪一种,其实能给我一些线索。

And depending on which of those you prefer, really give me a clue.

Speaker 2

所以如果你在寻找温热型的疗法,可能是姜茶,也可能是茴香茶,这些都是温热型的疗法。

So if you were looking at warming remedies, it could be ginger tea, it could be fennel tea, that's a warming remedy.

Speaker 2

或者可能是肉桂,或者其他任何香料。

Or it could be cinnamon or any of the spices.

Speaker 2

豆蔻是我的最爱之一,顺便说一下。

Cardamom is one of my favorites, by the way.

Speaker 2

这个是我常用的豆蔻。

This is I use cardamom.

Speaker 2

这些是豆荚里的小黑种子,就是豆蔻。

This is the cardamom pods inside the little black seeds.

Speaker 2

豆蔻的味道很美妙。

Apps seeds are a lovely taste.

Speaker 2

你听说过吗?

Do you know it?

Speaker 2

你认识豆蔻吗?

Do you know cardamom?

Speaker 2

你试过吗?

Have you tried it?

Speaker 2

没有,没怎么试过。

Not really, no.

Speaker 2

哦,尝一口这个。

Oh, have a bite of that.

Speaker 2

哦,就咬一口

Oh, just bite

Speaker 1

种子?

the seed?

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

直接咬一口。

Just bite into it.

Speaker 2

你不仅能尝到一点味道。

You don't just just get a hint of the taste.

Speaker 2

在中东的许多地方,豆蔻是主要的风味之一,比如咖啡之类的饮品。

In many parts of The Middle East, cardamom is one of the main flavors, things like coffee and so on.

Speaker 1

让我想起……我本来想说印度菜。

Reminds me of oh, I was gonna say Indian food that

Speaker 2

我吃过。

I've had.

Speaker 2

对。

Yes.

Speaker 2

在印度被广泛使用。

Used a lot in India.

Speaker 2

在中国,它是一种康复滋补品。

And in China, it's a convalescent tonic.

Speaker 2

因此,当人们长期生病后需要恢复消化功能时,他们会使用它。

So they use it when people are building up their digestion after being ill for a long time.

Speaker 2

他们经常使用豆蔻。

They will often use cardamom.

Speaker 2

当人们的消化功能严重衰退时,这是我最喜爱的疗法之一。

It's one of my favorite remedies for that when people really run low, their digestion isn't functioning.

Speaker 2

它出现在我这里的一些故事中的一两个地方,因为当我需要温补、持久且滋养时,我更喜欢它,而不是其他大多数香料。

It was appeared in one or two of these stories I've got here because I prefer that to most of the other spices when I need warming, as I said before, but also sustaining and nourishing.

Speaker 2

所以你会问他们:你更喜欢温热的茶,还是更喜欢清凉的?

So you ask them, do you prefer teas that are warming or would you like something more cooling?

Speaker 2

现在,人们最熟知的清凉疗法之一就是薄荷。

And now one of the most cooling remedies that people know about is this, which is mint.

Speaker 2

那是薄荷,最好的是胡椒薄荷。

That's spearmint, the best one is peppermint.

Speaker 2

它闻起来真香,对吧?

It's got a lovely smell, isn't it?

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

它一直被认为具有清凉作用。

That has always been thought of as cooling.

Speaker 2

这是一个简单的测试。

And it's a simple test.

Speaker 2

你更喜欢姜茶还是胡椒薄荷茶?

Would you prefer ginger or peppermint tea?

Speaker 2

这样你就已经开始稍微缩小范围了。

And already you're beginning to narrow things down a bit.

Speaker 2

从古至今,在世界的每一个角落,主要的清凉疗法都是一样的。

The main cooling remedies throughout history from very beginning and in every part of the world, you'll find them saying exactly the same thing.

Speaker 2

所谓的主要降温疗法是苦味剂,但它们很少尝起来苦。

The main cooling remedies, so called, are the bitters And they taste rarely bitter.

Speaker 1

当你说到降温时,你的意思是我觉得热,所以我想吃点东西来让我凉快下来。

When you say cooling, you mean I feel hot, so I want something to cool me down.

Speaker 1

没错。

That's right.

Speaker 1

有一些特定的情况我会感到热。

And there's certain conditions where I will feel, I'll feel hot.

Speaker 1

发烧。

Fever.

Speaker 2

发烧。

Fever.

Speaker 2

发烧。

Fever.

Speaker 2

它们经常被用来控制发烧。

And they were often used to manage fever.

Speaker 2

而且你还记得吗,我们年轻的时候,大人总说:吃完大餐后别去游泳。

And happened, you remember when we were young we were told, If you've had a big meal, don't go swimming.

Speaker 2

你没被这么告诉过吗?

You weren't told that.

Speaker 1

我不会游泳,先生。

I can't swim, sir.

Speaker 1

不会。

No,

Speaker 2

你看吧。

there you go.

Speaker 2

这是我们那一代人至少一直记得的事情之一。

That was one of the things that some of us in my generation at least were always remembered.

Speaker 2

我们被叮嘱过:如果吃了一顿大餐,最好不要去游泳,因为血液都流向消化系统了,你需要用到四肢时,血流量就不够了。

We were told, if you've a big meal, it's not a good idea to go swim because the blood's moving into the digestion and you won't get many as much as you want when you need it in the limbs.

Speaker 2

而且你知道吗,这确实是正确的。

And that's, you know, it's true.

Speaker 2

当你在消化时,大量的血液会流向消化系统,我们可以称之为投入,因为分解食物、将其转化为有用物质需要大量工作。

When you are digesting, a lot of blood investment, shall we call it, is going into the digestive system because there's a lot of work needed to break down this food, turn it into something useful.

Speaker 2

这确实是一种投入。

It is an investment.

Speaker 2

你投入很多,但收获更多。

You put a lot in, you get much more out.

Speaker 2

但这意味着消化本质上是——我在这里用词比较宽松,但这种说法并不差。

But what it means is that digestion is all about, I'm just being a bit loose here with the language, but it's not a bad language.

Speaker 2

就像是把血液集中到身体核心。

It's like bringing blood into the core.

Speaker 2

当你发烧时,血液会迅速流动,体温上升,这其实很好,因为发烧本身就是一种防御机制。

When you've got a fever, the blood's all charging around and your body temperature's going up, which is great because fever actually is a defense measure.

Speaker 2

你知道,当我们的体温升高几度时,白细胞——那些负责作战的细胞——活跃度会提高两到三倍。

You know, when our body temperature rises by a couple of degrees, our white blood cells, the ones that are doing the legwork two or three times as active.

Speaker 2

所以发烧是身体在需要调动主力、全力抗敌时采取的手段。

So fever is what the body uses when it needs to bring out the big guys, bring out the fight.

Speaker 2

这有一个小小的设计问题。

There's a slight design problem.

Speaker 2

简直就像是创造者故意在系统中设置了一个缺陷,因为很多发烧都源于肠道。

It's almost as though, you know, the creators put a purposeful fault in the system because a lot of fever comes from the gut.

Speaker 2

你患上肠道感染,这是主要的来源之一。

You get gut infections, that's one of the main places.

Speaker 2

就在那一刻,所有的血液都流向了这里,而你却希望更多血液流向内部,促进消化。

And at that moment, all the blood's going out here and you want more of it going in, more digestion, if you like.

Speaker 2

所以当你服用苦味物质时,你实际上是在刺激这里的味蕾。

So when you take a bitter, when you're taking a bitter, you're actually triggering taste buds up here.

Speaker 1

苦味?

A bitter?

Speaker 1

苦味。

A bitter.

Speaker 1

一种苦味的东西。

Something that tastes bitter.

Speaker 1

有苦味的植物吗?

Are there any plants that are bitter?

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

苦味植物非常常见,在古代世界备受推崇。

A bitter plants are very common and were highly valued in the old world.

Speaker 2

在我们这个时代,欧洲人最常使用的苦味植物可能是苦艾。

In our times, probably the most bitter plant that people used in European terms was something called wormwood.

Speaker 2

你可能不熟悉这个词,但苦艾在法语中叫“苦艾酒”(vermouth)。

Now you may not be familiar with that word, but the French for wormwood is vermouth.

Speaker 2

你可能知道餐前饮用饮品的习俗,这种饮品被称为开胃酒,能刺激食欲。

And you think of the use of a drink before a meal, the idea was it was, they used to call it an aperitif, something that stimulated your appetite.

Speaker 2

因此,他们会使用苦味剂来增进食欲,而低剂量的苦艾就是其中之一。

So they would use bitters to improve your appetite and a low level of wormwood would be one of them.

Speaker 2

蒲公英和牛蒡是另外两种苦味植物,现在我们把它们做成了软饮料,尤其是在美国。

Dandelion and burdock of two other bitters, which we now have as a soft drink, you know, particularly in America.

Speaker 2

我们知道苦味确实能刺激食欲。

And we know that bitters do switch on the appetite.

Speaker 2

因此,当食欲不振时,我们有时会使用它们。

So we sometimes use them when appetite is poor.

Speaker 2

食欲低下有各种原因,但苦味剂确实能起到很大帮助,特别是当你从疾病中恢复时。

And, there's all sorts of reasons why you've got a low appetite, but bitters can really help, particularly if you're recovering from an illness.

Speaker 2

它们有助于促进消化液分泌,提升食欲。

They can help with getting the digestion juices flowing and the appetite up.

Speaker 1

因为它们能将血液引导至消化系统。

Because they bring blood to the digestive system.

Speaker 2

实际上,它们能起到多种作用。

Well, they do all sorts of things actually.

Speaker 2

当你激活口腔中的这些受体和味蕾时,它们是直接连接的,会刺激胃部释放多种激素,从而激活各种生理反应,增加消化活动,导致更多血液流向该区域。

When you switch on these receptors in the mouth, these taste buds, they're hardwired and they produce hormones down here in the stomach that switch on all sorts of things, an effect of increased digestive activity, which involves more blood coming into the area.

Speaker 2

所以,假设你生活在中东的某个沙漠地区。

So yes, let's imagine you're living in some part of desert area in The Middle East.

Speaker 2

你正在吃一只羊,或者某种没进过冰箱、有点不新鲜的食物。

You're eating a sheep or something that hasn't seen a refrigerator and it's a bit dodgy.

Speaker 2

吃完饭后,你想到当地容易获取的东西来应对。

And you think after a meal, you turn to something easily available in that part of the world.

Speaker 2

这是一种叫卡菲爾阿拉比卡的植物。

It's a plant called kaffir arabica.

Speaker 2

我们称之为咖啡。

We call it coffee.

Speaker 2

把咖啡磨成粉末沉在杯底,倒点热水,直接喝掉。

Ground the coffee into a sludge at the bottom, pour a bit of hot water and drink that straight.

Speaker 2

这味道很苦。

That's bitter.

Speaker 2

所以,如果你曾经喝过不加糖的浓缩咖啡,那就是一种苦味剂。

So if you ever had an espresso without sugar, that's a bitter.

Speaker 2

明白吗?

Okay?

Speaker 2

而且它被用作助消化的药物。

And that was used as a digestive.

Speaker 2

换句话说,吃完饭后,它能帮助应对一些非常粗糙的食物。

In other words, after you're eating, it would help cope with some pretty rough food.

Speaker 2

因此,苦味剂一直被认为对消化和食欲有益。

So bitters were always seen to be good for your digestion and appetite.

Speaker 2

而在发烧时,这实际上意味着降低体温。

And in fever that actually meant lowering your body temperature.

Speaker 2

我们可以看到这种情况正在发生。

And that's, we can see that happening.

Speaker 2

这意味着外面的一些怒气被升华成了消化过程。

Means that some of the anger out here just gets sublimated into digestion.

Speaker 2

因此,苦味剂获得了其清凉的声誉。

So that was where the bitters got their cooling reputation.

Speaker 2

我们现在可以笑称这一切都是中世纪的胡言乱语。

And we can now laugh at this is all medieval nonsense.

Speaker 2

但当我接诊病人时,我反复回到这一点:我从一张白纸开始。

But the point that I keep coming back to when I'm seeing patients, I start with that blank sheet of paper.

Speaker 2

因为判断这些物质对你的作用的唯一方法,就是亲自尝试。

It's because the only test of what these do to you is to take it.

Speaker 2

正如你对姜和肉桂的体验那样,你不需要等太久。

And as you notice with your ginger and cinnamon, you don't need long.

Speaker 2

你直接喝下去就行。

You've got it there straight up.

Speaker 2

如果我给一个情绪非常烦躁的人服用苦味剂,他大概一小时内就能感受到它的效果。

And if I give a bitter to somebody someone is really bitter, they will know within an hour or so what effect it's having.

Speaker 1

你刚才听到的是之前一集中最常被回放的片段。

What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode.

Speaker 1

如果你想收听完整的一集,我在下方提供了链接。

If you want listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below.

Speaker 1

请查看描述。

Check the description.

Speaker 1

谢谢。

Thank you.

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