最常回放的时刻：通往目标与幸福的直接路径！这两个决定最为关键

你觉得我该怎样跟我的儿子说，他成长的这个世界，跟我们人类进化出的本能之间，存在这么大的脱节呢？

What do you think I I should say to my future son about the world that he's growing up in in terms of the mismatch between our evolution and his natural hardwiring?

真了不起。

Wow.

这是个非常好的问题。

What a great question.

进化理论里有个叫‘错配假说’的概念，简单说就是，我们今天遇到的很多问题，其实都源于过去适应环境的特性，到了今天这个现代世界反而不再适用了。

So there is a there is something called the mismatch hypothesis in evolutionary theory, which basically says that many problems that we face today arise out of a mismatch of a phenomenon that was adaptive in our ancestral past, but is no longer adaptive in our contemporary modern world.

举个最简单的例子，就拿食物来说。

Classic example to stick to food.

我们进化出了对味道的偏好，是因为过去食物稀缺、随时可能挨饿。

We've evolved the gustatory preferences as a response to caloric scarcity and caloric uncertainty.

所以，特别爱吃高脂肪的食物，一有机会就猛吃，这在当时完全是合乎进化逻辑的——毕竟你不知道下一顿什么时候有。

Therefore, being attracted to fatty foods, gorging on a lot of food makes perfect evolutionary sense when we don't know when our next meal is coming from.

可现在食物这么丰富，这种本能反而成了负担。

When we live in an environment of plentitude, then that exact phenomenon becomes maladaptive.

所以你看，比如世界卫生组织列出的前八或九大致命疾病，几乎都可以归因于这种错配假说。

So if you look at, for example, I think the top eight or nine killers on the World Health Organization thing, they can all be attributed to the mismatch hypothesis.

所以我会告诉你儿子，知识就是力量，就像我们之前说的你拿到学位一样。

So I would tell your son, knowledge is power, to our earlier point of you getting that degree.

多知道一些，永远不会吃亏。

You never lose in knowing more.

亲爱的儿子，你了解了这个错配假说，就有希望不会那么容易掉进行为陷阱里。

You being aware of the mismatch hypothesis, dear son, will allow you to hopefully not fall as easily into behavioral traps.

那最重要的有哪些呢？你有一本书叫《幸福，是的》。

And what are the most important because you have a book here called Happiness Yes.

《过上美好生活的八个秘诀》。

Eight Secrets for Leading the Good Life.

如果我要给他一些关于如何过上幸福生活的建议，我最应该关注哪些重要的事情？

If I was to give him advice on how to live a happy life, what are the most important things that I should be aiming at?

我关注的是，我们为了幸福可以做出的决定，以及心态上的调整。

So I I look at both decisions that we can make for happiness and mindsets.

那我来聊聊其中几项吧。

So, let me maybe discuss a few of each.

说到影响幸福或痛苦的决定，最重要的无非就是选伴侣和选职业。

So, by far, the two choices that will either impart upon me the greatest happiness or the greatest misery is choice of spouse and choice of profession.

明白了。

Okay.

咱们简单说说看。

And let's break it down very simply.

要是早上醒来，旁边躺着个人，心里想：天啊，怎么又是你？这一天肯定没好果子吃。

If I wake up next to a person in the bed and I go, Oh, goddamn, not this one again, I'm not off to a good start.

要是早上醒来，旁边躺着那个人，你忍不住说：天哪。

If I wake up next to this, to that person and I go, oh my god.

我怎么这么幸运？

How did I pull that off?

能醒在这样一个人身边，真是件特别幸福的事。

What a delight to wake up next to this person.

那挺好。

Well, that's good.

他们有做过实证研究吗？

Have they empirically measured this?

他们有做过

Have they

不是以我所说的那种方式。

Not not in the way I'm Mhmm.

在讲述这个例子的时候。

Explaining the anecdote.

如果我醒来后，身边是这个让我心生欢喜的人，接着一整天做着让我内心充满喜悦的事。

Now, if I go off after I woke up to this lovely person, I go off and do things in my day to day activities that make me do existential glee.

天哪。

Oh, boy.

今天真是期待满满的一天。

What a great day I have lined up.

我接下来要写我的下一本新书。

I'm gonna be working on my next book.

这次写的是一个CEO的日记。

I've got a diary of a CEO.

这肯定会特别有意思。

That's gonna be super fun.

会有很多新的人接触到我的一些想法。

A lot of new people are gonna hear about some of my ideas.

然后我可能会跟一个研究生聊聊我正在做的那些特别棒的研究。

Then I'm gonna maybe have a chat with a graduate student on some really exciting research I'm doing.

哇，真让人兴奋。

So wow.

当然，压力是不小，但这一切都让我觉得特别有目标和意义。

But yeah, mean, there's a lot of stress, but it all gives me a lot of purpose and meaning.

到了晚上，我又回到那个可爱的人身边，这不就是我破解幸福密码的方式吗？

And then at night I return to that lovely person, I've cracked happiness code, right?

不过话说回来，既然魔鬼藏在细节里，那我该怎么提高自己做出正确选择的概率呢？

Now, course, the question is, if the devil's in the details, what can I do to maximize my chances that I make those right choices?

我在书里讲了，跟市面上99.9%的自助类书籍不一样，那些书总信誓旦旦给你列八条步骤，保证有效。

I explain in the book, contrary to 99.9% of the quote self help prescriptive books, where they tell you exactly with guarantee, here are the eight steps.

我说的是，生活其实是一场概率游戏，懂吗？

I explain that life is a statistical game, right?

这里面有很多随机性和偶然性。

There are statistical vagaries.

所以我能做的，就是帮你提高获得幸福的可能性。

So all I can do is increase your odds of obtaining happiness.

但我没法保证任何事，对吧？

I can't guarantee anything, right?

有人一辈子不抽烟，照样得肺癌，但不抽烟，确实能大大降低得肺癌的风险。

You could never smoke and get lung cancer, but not smoking certainly reduces your chances of lung cancer greatly.

之前我提到过，物以类聚，还是异性相吸。

So earlier I mentioned birds of a feather flock together versus opposites attract.

绝大多数情况下，如果你想提高婚姻幸福的概率，记住那句老话：物以类聚，人以群分。

Overwhelmingly, if you want to increase your chances of a happy marriage, remember the maxim birds of a feather flock together.

互补在短期内确实挺管用的。

Complementarity works really nicely in the short term.

但它撑不起一段长久的婚姻。

It doesn't sustain a long term marriage.

结婚久了，那种心跳加速的感觉和荷尔蒙终究会消退。

The butterflies, the hormones don't last when you've been in a marriage.

这不代表二十五年后你就不爱伴侣了，但光靠这个是撑不下去的。

That doesn't mean you're not still sexually attracted to your partner twenty five years later, but that's not going to carry the train.

明白了。

Okay.

我再补充一点，让这个观点更具体、更细致一些。

So just to give a little bit more, I guess, specific specificity and nuance to this.

你知道吗？

You know what?

因为我的伴侣特别喜欢一些灵性方面的东西。

Because my partner, she's really into, like, spiritual stuff.

对。

Yes.

她特别迷水晶，还有好多我根本不感兴趣的东西。

She's really into, like, crystals and lots of things that I'm not into.

我觉得我们的关系很好。

I think we have a great relationship.

我们在一起很久了。

We've been together a long time.

她说她喜欢曼联和足球。

And she's like, I'm into Manchester United and soccer.

她对这些一点都不感兴趣。

She's not into that.

不过我们可能得让你重新想想，因为我可是曼城球迷，不过

Well, we might have to have you revisit that because I'm a Manchester City guy, but

你讲吧。

go ahead.

好了，这期播客到此结束。

Well, that's the end of the podcast.

所以呢，

So that's

是的。

yeah.

抱歉。

My apologies.

不是的。

No.

你听我说。

Look.

我并不是说你们之间没有明显差异，但如果让我用统计学的术语来分析，把你们最核心的人生理念提炼出来，你觉得你们是更相似，还是更不同？

I'm not suggesting that there aren't clear differences in a but if I were to distill, if I were to to use statistical term, if I were to factor analyze your most fundamental life principles between you and your partner, do you think you're more alike or more different?

我们更相似。

We're more alike.

我们的理念是一致的。

We're we're aligned.

这正是我想说的。

That's my point.

对。

Yeah.

这就是为什么我会这么说，因为别人听到时，可能会以为这只是偏好问题。

And then this is why I say it because when people hear it, they might think of it as like tastes.

不是的。

No.

这跟偏好无关。

It's not about taste.

也不是关于满足感。

It's not about the satisfaction.

一种根本性的道德权利？

Fundamental deontologic right?

我的妻子很欣赏我总是说实话这一点。

I mean, what you know, my wife loves the fact that I'm a truth teller.

她也看重我为人正直、内心纯净。

My love my wife loves the fact that I have purity in my right?

她明白，就像我一样，我们彼此都看重这份真诚。

She she appreciates the fact that, you know, and similar with her.

比如，我们从来不会故意去引发对方的嫉妒。

Like, example, we both have never been the type to seek to trigger jealousy in the other.

很多人觉得，制造一点嫉妒感反而能让关系更有激情，对吧？

Many people will say, oh, you know, if when you trigger jealousy that spices things up, right?

我妻子从来没有任何一次做过这种事。

My wife has never a single time done a single thing, Right?

因为她对自己的行为准则有很高的要求。

But that's because she has a standard of personal conduct that's very elevated.

那我也想问问你，

Well Can I ask you as well in there?

你有没有发现，有些你本身没有、但特别看重的价值观，却是她身上有的，而你被这些特质吸引？

Just are there things about your wife that you don't have as much, but are fundamental values, but you're drawn to because she's kind of giving you them.

我叫她麦加维弗。

I call her MacGyver.

你记得麦加维弗是谁吗？

Do you do you remember who MacGyver was?

那是八十年代的一部剧，主角特别厉害，什么东西都能自己动手修好。

MacGyver was a show in the nineteen eighties, I think, where he was reputed to be able to put things together.

他被困住了，关在牢房里，就拿肥皂削成工具，把铁栏杆锯开。

He's in a pickle, he's in a cell, so he takes soap and cuts it up to cut the bar.

我老婆完全打破了男女刻板印象——你给她一罐空金枪鱼罐头和一个足球，她能给你拼出一枚火箭，直接送你上火星。

My wife, and a complete reversal of the typical stereotypes of male and female, you give my wife an empty can of tuna and a soccer ball, she'll make a rocket and she'll fly you to Mars.

她简直太厉害了，用法语说就是——

She is unbelievably in French, say.

她特别擅长把各种东西拼凑起来，诸如此类。

She knows how to put things together and so on.

我简直被她这种本事迷住了。

And I'm just mesmerized by her ability to do this.

我呢，虽然有那么多高深的学术背景，但你拿个灯泡给我。

For me, for all my fancy academic stuff, take a light bulb.

我可能得花四个星期才能搞明白它怎么工作。

It'll probably take me four weeks before I figure how it works.

她早就造出了一枚火箭。

She's already built a rocket.

她简直就是萨德家的埃隆·马斯克。

She's basically Elon Musk of the Saad household.

我特别佩服她这一点，而我自己却完全不具备这种能力。

I greatly admire that in her, and it's something that I possess very little.

我想问一下，你刚才提到的关于幸福的进化基础，那件事我想再聊聊。

I wanted to ask one of things you said a second ago was about this the evolutionary basis of we're talking about happiness and what it is to be happy.

刚才说到伴侣这部分。

Talked about the partner part.

意义和人生目标的进化基础是什么？

What is the evolutionary basis of meaning and purpose?

我们为什么

Why do we

需要这个？

need that?

没错。

Right.

我们的前额叶非常发达。

So we've got a very big frontal lobe.

对吧？

Right?

你还记得我之前讲过外适性跟适应性的区别吗？

So remember earlier I was talking about exaptation versus adaptation?

我们如此热爱文学，其中一个原因是大脑需要通过故事来获得滋养，这其实是一种功能的延伸。

One argument for why we love literature so much is that our brains need nourishment via storytelling, and therefore that's an exaptation.

我的大脑期待被一些能吸引我的内容喂养，所以文学就像是我获取这种精神养分的一种方式，用食物来打比方，对吧？

My brain expects to be fed stuff that keeps me engaged, and therefore literature is one way by which I eat that nourishment, to use the food analogy, right?

我觉得，因为我们是有意识的生物，不是只靠生存和繁衍本能驱动的动物，对吧？

So I suspect that because we are sentient beings, right, we're not beings that are only driven by instincts of survival and reproduction, right?

所有动物都得解决两个问题：活下去和繁衍后代，对吧？

I mean, all animals have to solve two problems: survive and reproduce, right?

就这些。

That's it.

这就是生命的全部游戏规则。

That's the entire game of life.

但因为我们有意识，有自我认知，有感知能力，生命就不能只停留在性行为和繁衍上。

But because we have consciousness, because we have meta knowledge, because we are sentient, there needs to be more to life than simply having sex and reproducing.

所以，提升这种意识的方式，就是通过目标和意义。

And therefore, the way that you elevate that consciousness is through purpose and meaning.

所以我特别开心，不过我得提一下，人的幸福感差异中，大约有一半是由基因决定的。

So I'm a very happy I mean, I should mention though that happiness, about 50% of individual differences in happiness scores, comes from our genes.

但好消息是，还有一半是可以通过努力改变的，对吧？

But the good news is that it leaves 50% up for grabs, right?

也许我天生就比你更乐观，所以在起跑线上我占了优势。

So, I may be born with innately a more sunny disposition than you, so I'm now winning at the race.

但如果我不做出明智的选择，不培养积极的心态，即使你天生不如我，最终也可能超过我。

But if I don't make good choices, if I don't adopt good mindsets, then even though you started lower than me, in an innate sense, you might surpass me.

所以，幸福感其实是先天和后天共同作用的结果。

And so, it really is an interaction of nature and nurture.

说到目标和意义，我可能说得有点绕，但我想说的是——

Purpose and meaning, so to that, I may be answering it in an oblique way.

我之前说过，拥有好的伴侣和好的工作，是提升幸福感的两个关键途径，对吧？

I argue, and remember I said having a good partner and having a good job are the two ways that you can maximize happiness?

我认为，要实现职业上的满足感，有两个核心指标，其中一个就和目标与意义直接相关。

I argue that the best way to achieve occupational happiness is two metrics, one of which is going to relate to purpose and meaning.

在其他条件相同的情况下，拥有时间上的自由总比没有好。

Having temporal freedom, all other things equal, is better than not having temporal freedom.

我来解释一下我的意思。比如飞机驾驶员，一旦舱门关闭，从洛杉矶到新加坡的接下来十六个小时就定死了。

Let me explain what I mean by An airplane pilot, once the door shuts the next sixteen hours from LA to Singapore, it's set.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，从时间上来说，确实如此。

I mean, literally, temporarily,

在

in

时间和身体上，我都被困住了。

terms of time, physically, I'm stuck.

对吧？

Right?

这对我来说简直无法想象。

That to me is unthinkable.

我过日子随性自在。

I float through life.

我比大多数人更努力，但我是按自己的节奏来。

I work harder than most people, but I do it in my own way.

我现在就去咖啡馆，写本书的企划案。

Right now, I'm going to go to a cafe and work on a book prospectus.

然后去练一小时的习。

Then I'm going to go train for an hour.

接着读三个小时的书。

Then I'm going to go read for three hours.

这种时间上的自由，我没有那种被日程压得喘不过气的感觉，对吧？

And that temporal, I don't have what I call scheduling asphyxia, right?

这对我特别有帮助。

That helps me.

我也是。

I do.

你确实如此。

You do.

如果可能的话，试着解决这个问题。

Try to resolve that if you can.

第二点，关乎目标和意义。

Number two, which is going to speak to purpose and meaning.

我认为，在其他条件相同的情况下，任何能让你实现创造力的工作，都是通向目标与幸福、目标与意义的直接途径。

I argue that all other things equal, any job that allows you to instantiate your creative impulse is a direct path to purpose and happiness, purpose and meaning.

我这话是什么意思呢？

What do I mean by that?

单口喜剧演员创作出一套全新的段子，之前根本没人这么说过。

A stand up comic is creating a routine that until he came along we didn't have.

厨师从无到有地创造出一道新菜。

A chef is creating a dish out of nothing.

建筑师设计出一座以前根本不存在的桥。

An architect is creating that bridge that didn't exist before.

作家，记得我们之前聊过，好像是在镜头外，你说过，写一本书花了多久？过程是怎样的？

An author remember earlier we were talking, I think it was off air and you were saying, how long did it take you or what was the process?

我说过，写书这件事，其实有种神奇的力量，对吧？

I said, you know, there's something magical about writing a book, right?

因为确实有那么一天，你打开笔记本，新建一个Word文档，后来你管它叫‘寄生的头脑’，但那时里面一个字都没有。

Because there literally is a day where you open the laptop, you open a Word document, that Word document, which eventually you're going to call the parasitic mind, save, doesn't have a single letter typed.

一片空白。

It's blank.

然后通过创造的力量、创作的冲动，一年后，我按下了发送键。

And then through the magic of creation, creative impulse, a year later, I press the send button.

一年后，你正在读这本书。

A year later, you're consuming that book.

这绝对是通往意义和目标的直接路径。

That has to be a direct path to purpose and meaning.

但这并不意味着精算师——你弟弟——过着没有价值的人生。

Now, that doesn't mean that the actuarial scientist, your brother, doesn't have a worthy life.

但一个艺术家、作家，一醒来就想着冲去工作室，这不就是创作的本质吗？

But surely, a person who wakes up who's an artist, who's an author, by the nature of him creating says, Oh, I can't wait to get to the studio.

我猜你哥哥可能不是这样。

I doubt that maybe not your brother.

我怀疑大多数精算师不会说：‘今天我要一头扎进精算表里，拼了！’

I doubt that most actuarial scientists go, I'm gonna get into that actuarial table today like there's no tomorrow.

我要狠狠搞定这份精算表。

I'm gonna spank that actuarial table.

明白了。

Okay.

所以，把你这些观点综合起来，我得出一个以前没听你说过的结论。

So putting a bunch of ideas together from your work then to arrive at a conclusion that I haven't heard you say.

我在《消费本能》这本书的第四章读到，像我这样的老小，确实如此。

I read in the Consuming Instinct, your your other book, chapter four, that younger siblings like me Yes.

我是家里四个孩子里最小的。

Youngest of four

更有创造力。

are more likely to be creative.

哦，你把这个点给挖出来了。

Oh, you've you've you've pulled that one out.

好吧。

Okay.

那是不是意味着，如果我们更有创造力，而创造力又像你刚才说的那样和幸福感相关，那我就比所有人都更快乐了？

So does that mean that if we're more likely to be creative and creativity is associated with happiness in the in the way that you just described, that I am happier than all

在我兄弟姐妹中。

of my siblings.

你想猜猜萨德博士的排行吗？

Do you wanna guess what doctor Saad's sibling order is?

你是最小的。

You're the youngest.

明显是最小的。

By far.

让我来解释一下。

So let me let me explain.

在回答之前，我想先澄清一下你提问的方式，让我说明背后的机制。

Let me step before I answer that and the way you frame the question, let me explain what the mechanism is.

明白吗？

Okay?

我还想再补充一点。

I also just wanna add one layer to that as well.

前几天吃饭的时候，我和大约十位我们的董事坐在一起。

I was sat with at dinner the other day with my with about 10 of our directors.

他们其实都是公司的创始人。

Really, they're founders of companies, essentially.

我觉得挺有意思的，就挨个问了他们一下，因为我对这个问题已经有点自己的看法了。

And I I thought it would be interesting to go around and ask them because I've started to form a bit of a picture about this.

我绕着桌子问了每一个人，你在兄弟姐妹中排行第几？

I went around the table and asked every single one of them, where do you rank in order of siblings?

其中有八个人说自己是最小的孩子。

And eight of them ranked as the youngest sibling.

这太棒了。

Oh, love it.

简直太不可思议了。

That was so crazy.

是的。

Yeah.

真的吗？

Is that Yeah.

这跟心理学有关。

That's psychology.

让我跟你讲讲这个理论的背景。

So let me tell you the background to that theory.

明白吗？

Okay?

我对此做过自己的研究，并发表了相关成果。

Which I've done my own research on and published work on it.

但这个理论最初来自科学史家弗兰克·索洛韦，他写过一本书，我强烈推荐给你的所有观众。

But the original theory comes from Frank Soloway, who's a historian of science, who wrote a book which I highly recommend to all your viewers.

书有点专业，但读起来并不难。

It's a bit technical, but you can get through it.

书名叫《反叛者诞生》。

It's called Born to Rebel.

这本书研究了历史上那些提出最具突破性、最激进科学发现的人，他们的出生顺序是怎样的。

It's a book that explores historically the people who've generated the biggest breakthrough radical scientific innovations, and what was their birth order.

结果发现，和你之前说的十个人里八个是最小的孩子类似，在公认的28项最激进的科学突破中，有23项是由最小的孩子或较晚出生的孩子完成的。

And it turns out, not unlike how you did it with the ten and eight of them were last born, out of the 28 most radical scientific innovations ever posited, 23 out of the 28 were the last born, later borns.

那接下来问题就来了：这确实是个现象，但背后的原因是什么？

Now, so then the question is, okay, well fine, that's just a phenomenon, but what explains it?

而这个解释，简直让人震惊。

Now, the explanation is mind blowing.

准备好了吗？

You ready?

弗兰克·索洛韦认为，当我们研究出生顺序的心理影响时，通常是从父母根据孩子出生顺序所采取的行为角度出发的。

So Frank Soloway argued that typically when we study the psychological effects of birth order, it's from the perspective of the parent's behavior to the child as a function of their birth order.

第一个孩子，我管得很严。

First child, I'm very strict.

第二个孩子，我已经有点累了。

Second child, I'm getting tired.

第五个孩子？随他去吧，反正我也管不了。

Fifth child, run the streets, don't give a shit.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以，人们通常认为这就是出生顺序产生影响的原因。

So that's the causality of the birth order effect.

但他彻底推翻了这种看法。

He flipped the whole thing.

他说，不，不，不。

He said, no, no, no.

出生顺序效应的驱动力很大程度上其实来自孩子本身，让我来解释一下。

Much of the impetus of the birth order effect is coming from the child, and let me explain how.

他说，孩子面临的一个根本生存问题——这是个进化论观点——就是要和所有兄弟姐妹区分开来，从而争取父母最多的投入。

He said that one of the fundamental survival problems, it's an evolutionary theory, one of the fundamental survival problems that a child faces is to differentiate itself from all other siblings to etch maximal investment from the parents.

那我该怎么做呢？

How do I do that?

这就是所谓的达尔文生态位分化假说。

So that's called the Darwinian niche partitioning hypothesis.

当你家第一个孩子出生时，所有角色都还没被占满。

When you start off your firstborn, all of the niches are unoccupied.

有‘我是乖孩子’这个角色。

There is the I'm a good boy niche.

还有‘我是叛逆者’这个角色。

I'm a rebel niche.

我是对的，对吧？

I'm a right?

还有很多很多未被占据的定位空间，竞争压力很大。

There there are many, many there's a penalty of niches that are unoccupied.

我是长子。

So I'm firstborn.

所以我随便选一个就行。

I'm gonna pick whichever one.

第二个孩子出生了。

The second born is born.

只剩下 n-1 个定位空间了。

There is n minus one niches.

有一个已经被占了。

One is taken.

既然‘好孩子’这个定位已经被占了，我得另辟蹊径。

So the I'm a good boy niche, I gotta differentiate myself.

我是老二。

I'm second.

我属于那种讨人嫌的类型。

I'm an asshole niche.

我是个喜欢唱反调的人。

I'm a I'm a contrarian niche.

咱们继续按出生顺序往下说。

Let's keep going down the birth order.

对后面出生的孩子来说，空着的位置越来越少，尤其是如果家庭孩子很多的话。

There are fewer and fewer unoccupied niches left for later borns, especially if the sipship is big.

萨洛韦认为，这迫使最小的孩子在关键性格特质上表现得与众不同，比如对新经验的开放性。

Sulloway argued that that forces the last born to score differently on key personality traits, one of which is open to experience.

所以他觉得，从倒数第二个到最小的孩子，因为必须解决这个原始问题，往往会成为更有创造力的人，不会被顺从和传统束缚。

So he argued that later borns, up to last borns, by virtue of having to solve that original problem, will end up being much bigger out of the box thinkers, not being stuck on conformity, on orthodoxy.

所以在科学创新的语境下，最小的孩子往往会说：这纯属胡扯。

Hence, in the context of scientific innovations, the last borns are the ones who say, nah, this is bullshit.

我选择这条路。

I'm going this way.

于是我在这个消费心理学的场景里验证了这个理论，发现最小的孩子更有可能成为产品创新者和早期采用者。

And so I tested that theory in a consumer psychology setting, where I demonstrated that last borns were much more likely to be product innovators and early product adopters.

我沿用了同样的框架，但没有用在科学领域的突破上，而是用在了产品创新和采纳上。

So I took the exact framework, but instead of applying it to radical scientific innovations, I applied it to radical product innovations and adoptions.

所以综合来看，如果开放性与幸福感有关，那么排行靠后的子女应该更幸福。

So all that to say that based on that, one could surmise that if openness to experience is correlated to happiness, then the latter borns would score happier.

我真的很想知道到底是哪一种，因为我感觉两种情况我都经历过。

I really wonder which one it is because I can attest to kind of both being true.

我小时候可能有点叛逆，就是为了吸引注意，但等我十岁的时候，家里的规矩已经不再适用于我了。

I probably was a little bit rebellious to get attention, but also by the time I was 10, the same rules didn't apply to me.

你刚才说……

When you said

你家里有几个孩子？

How many are you?

有四个。

There's four.

好的。

Okay.

你说“满街跑”，这简直完美描述了我的童年。

When you said run the streets, that's the perfect explanation of my childhood.

我的大姐，也就是我姐姐阿曼达，她要是晚上9点还没回家，那她也是个成年人了，所以对她的规矩稍微宽松一些。

My my oldest the oldest, which is my sister, Amanda, she if she wasn't at home by 9PM she was also a woman, so the rules were slightly different for her.

晚上九点，那真是麻烦大了。

9PM, it was it was hell to pay.

如果我两三天不回家，反正也没人管我。

If I didn't come home for two to three days, there was no one there to ground me anyway.

我觉得这让你更容易去尝试新东西。

And I think that opens you up to experimentation.

你就会开始捣鼓各种事情。

You start fiddling with stuff.

我那时候在家干了不少事儿，比如把东西拆了看里面怎么运作，还搞过小生意，卖我妈房间里的香烟。

You start I I was doing all kinds of things in the house, like breaking things apart, looking inside them, starting little businesses, selling the cigarettes from my mom's room.

对不起啊，妈妈。

Sorry, mother.

她根本不知道我做过这些事。

She really doesn't know that I ever did that.

这些经历慢慢积累成了一种知识储备，也让我越来越有自信。

But all these kinds of things, which start to build this, you know, repository of information, but also it built my confidence

是的。

Yeah.

这种自信让我后来能大胆创业，对风险也有了不一样的看法。

In a way which allowed me to be entrepreneurial and develop this different relationship with risk.

所以很难说清楚到底是哪一个原因。

So it's hard to figure out which one it is.

也许两个原因都有。

Maybe it's both.

很可能两者都有。

It's probably both.

我觉得是……

I I think it's

两者兼而有之。

a bit of both.

不过呢，说实话，你团队之前问我一些别人从没问过的问题，我还没来得及好好想想。

But, yeah, you know, I haven't been I I know that your team had asked me what are some questions that we could ask that no one else.

尤其是提到出生顺序那个问题，你问了一个我很久都没人问过的问题，真厉害。

Well, certainly pulling up that birth order one, you've succeeded on asking me a question that I certainly haven't been asked in a long time, so kudos to you.

嗯，

Well,

这确实很了不起。

yeah, it's incredible.

我们团队有很多出色的研究员。

We have a lot of great researchers.

顺便说一下，我和我妻子都是最小的孩子。

And by the way, both my wife and I are last borns.

所以说到同型交配，我不确定有没有人做过这项研究，如果还没人做，其实很容易就能做。

So to to the assortative mating, and I'm not sure if that's been done, and if it hasn't been done, it'd be very easy to do.

对吧？

Right?

我有个实验想法。

Here's an experiment.

要是谁拿去做了，可得记得给我署名。

If anybody steals it, I better get the credit.

你只要找一千对夫妻，算出他们的满意度和幸福指数，然后看看出生顺序是不是存在同型交配的现象。

You just look at a thousand marriages, calculate their satisfaction score, their happiness score, and then see if there is assortative mating on birth ownership.

有意思。

Interesting.

太棒了。

Boom.

刚才你听到的是上一期节目中被反复播放的精彩片段。

What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode.

如果你想听完整期节目，我在下面提供了链接。

If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below.

详情请看简介。

Check the description.

谢谢。

Thank you.