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19岁的时候，你申请成为海豹突击队队员。

And at 19 years old, you applied to be a Navy SEAL.

是的。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

所以我得问一个很傻的问题：海豹突击队到底是什么？

So I have to ask a very dumb question here, which is what is a Navy SEAL?

所以有

So there's

特种作战，我想，从英国的角度来说，这就是SAS和SBS。

special operations, which I guess, you know, from England, this is the the SAS and the SBS.

所以我们最常被拿来和这两个单位作比较。

So those are the two sort of units that we get compared to the most.

海豹突击队是海军的一部分，但你是海军的特种作战力量。

And so a Navy SEAL is a part of the Navy, but you're the special operations component of the Navy.

SEAL这个词实际上是一个缩写，代表海上、空中和陆地。

And the the term SEAL is actually an acronym, which stands for sea, air, and land.

尽管我们属于海军，但我们接受过在海上、空中作战的训练。

Because even though we're in the Navy, we are trained to operate in the sea, in the air.

在海上意味着我们潜水，在空中意味着我们跳伞和滑降，在陆地上意味着我们执行陆地作战任务。

So in the sea, meaning we dive, in the air, meaning we parachute and rappel, and then on the land, meaning we conduct land warfare operations.

把所有这些技能结合起来，就是我们的工作内容。

And you take all those things, combine them together, and that's what our job consists of.

我一直以为要成为海军海豹突击队员或者加入SAS，必须要有十年、二十年的军旅经验。

I was under the assumption that to become a Navy SEAL or to be in

你得有长期稳定的服役经历，然后某天电脑上突然弹出一条信息，让你去某个地方报到。

the SAS, you had to have ten, twenty years in of military service.

所以听到你19岁就申请了，我才知道原来青少年也可以申请。

You had to have, like, an established military service, and then you get some, like, pop up on your computer and it says, like, come to this this building over here.

我之前完全不知道 teenagers 能申请。

And so to hear that you applied at 19 years old, I was like, oh, I didn't know teenagers could apply.

是的

Yeah.

不

No.

我18岁参军时签了一份合同，直接被派去参加海豹突击队训练，花了一年时间才完成。

I I was 18 years old when I joined the Navy, and I joined on a contract that got me sent to SEAL training and it took a year to get through.

所以我完成训练时是19岁。

So I was 19 when I finished that up.

但总有人争论说，难道你不希望招一些更有经验的人吗？

But there is there's always debates about, well, don't you want someone that's more experienced?

而我其实特别庆幸自己是在海豹突击队里成长起来的。

And I actually loved the fact that I was basically raised in the seal teams.

这太棒了。

It was just awesome.

这是一种绝佳的成长方式。

It was an awesome way to grow up.

那是一种很棒的方式，让你在那些年里学习你想要掌握的技能。

It was an awesome way to spend those those years of your life learning the trade that you wanted to learn.

所以我觉得这太棒了，而且我觉得结果非常好。

And so I thought it was awesome and I think it worked out pretty well.

通常情况下，能通过海豹突击队训练的人比例大约是百分之二十。

There is a usually the the the percentage of people that make it through SEAL training is about twenty percent.

年龄在20岁以下的人，这个比例会下降到大约百分之五。

People that are under the age of 20, it goes down to about five percent.

所以，我是那少数非常年轻却依然成功通过训练的人之一。

So, I was one of those, like, small percentage of people that are very young but still make it through.

那么，这种训练设计最终是在测试什么样的特质呢？

And what what is the characteristics that they're ultimately testing with the design of that training?

他们到底在测试什么？

What are they testing for?

你能坚持下去吗？

Will you keep going?

在面对什么时？

In the face of?

随便吧。

Whatever.

他们把其中一周叫做地狱周，对吧？

Well, they they call the one of the weeks hell week, don't

是吗？

they?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

听起来他们是在试图模拟地狱。

So they try and simulate hell by the sounds of it.

是的。

Yeah.

他们试图模拟地狱。

They try and simulate hell.

实际上，他们在创建这一周的训练时，原本是想模拟实战。

It's it's They actually were trying to simulate combat initially when they created that week.

他们希望将二战时期的大量实战模拟内容压缩进一个极短的周期，以便快速培养出能够前往海外执行任务的蛙人，因为当时二战正在激烈进行。

They wanted to take as much combat simulation from world war two at the time and put it into a very compressed schedule so they could create these frogmen to go overseas and conduct operations because World War two was going on.

因此，他们需要压缩整个训练周期。

And so they needed to compress the training cycle.

于是，他们把大量实战模拟内容压缩到了大约五天半的时间内。

So they compressed a bunch of that combat simulation into it's about five and a half days.

不睡觉，大量体力活动，高度压力，极度痛苦，很多人退出了。

No sleep, lots of physical activity, lots of stress, lots of pain, and lots of people quit.

有多少人退出了？

How many people quit

在这一周里？

in that particular week?

我估计，大部分退出的人——大概百分之八十的退出者都是在这周离开的。

I would say most of the people that quit probably of of it's probably eighty percent of the quitters quit in that week.

这已经讨论很久了。

It's been long discussed.

我认为有一本叫《坚毅》的书，讨论了在面对这类耐力任务时，需要哪些性格特质。

I think there's a book called Grit where they discuss what it takes in terms of character traits to get through these kinds of endurance tasks.

人们常常以为，那些肌肉最发达、或者做最多有氧运动的人才能坚持下来。

And people often think it's those that have the biggest muscles or that do the most, I don't know, cardiovascular exercise.

但根据你的观察，这或许也适用于更广泛的生活逆境，那些能够挺过逆境的人，有什么共同点吗？

But from what you've observed, and this is maybe a broader point about adversity in life, is there any similarities in the people that are able to get themselves through adversity?

这取决于你内心是否有一种驱动力，有就有，没有就没有。

It's it's there's there's some internal drive that you either have or you don't have.

如果你有这种驱动力，你就不会放弃。

And if you have it, you won't quit.

如果你没有，你就会放弃。

And if you don't have it, you're gonna quit.

这种压力会击垮很多人。

And it breaks people.

另一点是，你可能是个出色的游泳选手，上半身力量也很强，但跑得并不快。

The other thing is you might be an exceptional swimmer, and you might be exceptional upper body strength, but you're not that fast runner.

他们会发现这一点。

They're gonna find that out.

或者你可能跑得很快，但游泳很差。

Or you might be a fast runner, but a bad swimmer.

他们会发现你的弱点。

They're going to find out what your weakness is.

你可能不喜欢寒冷。

You might not like the cold.

他们会看出来的。

They're going to see it.

你可能不喜欢船压在头上。

You might not like the boat on your head.

他们会看出来的。

They're going to see it.

他们可能会发现你脾气不好。

They might see that you have a bad temper.

他们会发现这一点，并且会不断挑这个毛病，要么让你坚持到底，要么让你放弃。

They're going to find that, and they're going to pick at that thing to either make you come out the other side or make you quit.

这是一件非常了不起的事情。

It's a pretty it's a pretty amazing thing.

这是一件非常了不起的事情。

It's a pretty it's a pretty amazing thing.

从外部观察并看到这一点，是一件非常深刻的事情。

It's a pretty profound thing to look at from the outside and and and see it.

因为当我经历这一切时，我还年轻。

Because when I was going through it, it was just sort of I was young.

我不在乎。

I didn't care.

我一定要做到。

I was gonna do it.

他们说什么都无法让我放弃。

There was nothing that they were gonna tell me that was gonna make me quit.

我从未想过要放弃。

I never thought about quitting.

如果他们让我再回到水里，那就去吧。

If they told me to get back in the water again, let's go.

他们让我把木头扛在肩上，那就去吧。

They told me to put that log on on my shoulder, let's go.

把船放我头上，那就去吧。

Put the boat on my head, let's go.

我真的不在乎。

I I I didn't care.

你能教我那种‘那就去吧’的心态吗？

Can you teach that that let's go?

我们再跳回水里吧。

Let's we're gonna jump back in the water.

走吧。

Let's go.

我认为，海豹突击队基础训练中你学到的为数不多的事情之一，就是耸耸肩，继续前进。

I think that I think that's one of the few things that you learn in basic SEAL training is to shrug your shoulders and go forward.

比如，他们会把你排成一行站在海边。

Like, one of the things they do is they'll they'll line you up on the ocean.

这是在加利福尼亚，有些人以为加利福尼亚的水很温暖，但其实不是。

And this is in California, and sometimes people think that California is nice warm water, but it's not.

水温是55华氏度，我不清楚这换算成摄氏度是多少，但真的很冷。

It's 55 degrees, and I don't know what that translates to in centigrade, but it's cold.

他们会让你排好队，互相勾住手臂，和旁边的人手臂相扣，然后下令‘向前走’，你就这样在水里列队行进；接着他们说‘坐下’，你就坐进水里，然后他们就走了。

And one of the things they do is they'll they'll line you up and they say interlock arms, and you get arm in arm with the guy next to and they say forward march, and you walk march in the water, and they say take seats and you sit down, and they leave you in there.

这叫‘海浪酷刑’，你就这么一直坐着。

And it's called surf torture, and you just sit there.

过一会儿，他们会把你从水里拉出来，排好队，医生会过来检查有没有人出现低体温症。

And they'll, after a while, they'll pull you up out of the water, they'll line you up, and the doctor will come down and see if anyone has hypothermia.

如果还没有人出现低体温症或相关症状，就重新回到水里。

And if no one has hypothermia or signs of hypothermia yet, get back in the water.

他们就这样不断重复。

And they just keep doing that.

所以，是的，你学会的就是：好吧，我要继续前进。

And so, yeah, it's, you what you learn to do is, okay, I'm gonna go forward.

没有‘我受不了了，我要退出’这种想法。

There's no I can't get out of this.

我要继续前进。

I'm gonna go forward.

我不会放弃，所以我要继续前进。

I'm not gonna quit, so I'm gonna go forward.

来吧，放马过来。

Bring it on.

我认为，你学到的最重要的一点就是，即使事情再糟糕，也要坚持下去。

And I think if there's anything that you learn, it's to to keep pushing through things that suck.

我本想说，要继续克服逆境，但这根本不是逆境。

And I would love to say like, oh, keep pushing through adversity, but this isn't adversity.

这只不过是些让人讨厌的事。

This is just things that suck.

它比逆境低一个层次。

It's one level below adversity.

逆境是你面临挑战的时候。

Adversity is when you're having a challenge.

这只不过是一些会让人难受、但你必须硬着头皮挺过去的事。

This is just something that's gonna suck, and you're gonna have to push through it.

你提到过‘为什么’所起的作用。

You talked about the role that having a why plays.

我在想，比如，如果我刚刚失去了女朋友，或者我生命中有人离世，而我曾向他们许诺过要完成这件事，那么拥有某种继续前行的理由，在我们应对逆境或那些讨厌的事时，究竟扮演着怎样的角色。

And I was thinking about, you know, if I just if I just lost my girlfriend rejection or someone in my life had died and their part my parting promise to them was I was gonna do this, the role that having some kind of reason to carry on plays in how we handle adversity or things that suck.

你有没有观察到这方面的规律？

Did you see have you seen any patterns in that?

这重要吗？

Is it important?

因为在我身后有几本书，上面明明白白写着‘从你的为什么开始’之类的话。

Because there's books behind me that literally say start with your why and those kinds of things.

是的。

Yeah.

这可以是任何事情，比如我女朋友甩了我，我要证明她错了，也可以是更重大的事，比如我女朋友去世了，而我曾向她承诺过要完成这件事。

And, you know, that's a anything from, oh, my girlfriend dumped me, I'm gonna prove her wrong, to something that much more significant, which is my girlfriend died, and I told her I was gonna do this.

我要为了她完成它。

I'm gonna do it for her.

这两种情况，根据个人的不同，都可能成为足够强大的理由，支撑你走下去。

Both those things, depending on the human being, can be a strong enough I a strong enough why to get through.

我有一些朋友，曾经在越南。

And I've I've I have friends that were I have one friend that was in the Vietnam.

他在越南待过。

He was in Vietnam.

当他参加海豹突击队训练时，他根本不知道那是什么。

And when he showed up SEALs training, he didn't know what it was.

他以为自己报名的是当一名潜水员，负责在船底做施工工作。

He thought he was volunteering to be like a diver, a a diver that would do construction under under boats.

他以为那就是海豹突击队的全部内容。

He thought that well, that that what it was.

于是他到了那里，人家告诉他：这是海豹突击队训练。

And so he showed up, and they're like, this is SEAL training.

他问：海豹突击队是什么？

He's like, what's a SEAL?

他们给他解释了一下，然后他就坚持了下来。

And they kind of explained it to him, and then he went and made it through.

经历了所有的折磨和混乱。

All that torture, all that mayhem.

为什么？

And why?

因为那就是他们告诉他要做的。

Because that was what they were telling him to do.

而他回答，好吧。

And he was, okay.

我们就是要这么做。

That's what we're doing.

走吧。

Let's go.

所以，再次说，我真希望能给你一个人们需要的深刻支撑点。

So, again, I would love to be able to, you know, give you this profound anchor that people need to have.

但事实是，你到底想不想做这件事？

But it's like, oh, do do you want to do this or not?

而这正是我认为大部分问题的核心所在。

Which is what I think a lot of it boils down to.

你真的想做这件事吗？

Do you actually want to do this or not?

你真的想做这件事吗？

Do you actually want to do this or not?

因为如果你真的想做，有什么能阻止你呢？

Because if you actually want to do it, what's going to stop you?

什么都没有。

Nothing.

如果你根本不想做，又有什么能阻止你呢？

And if you don't really want to do it, what's gonna stop you?

任何出现的事情都可以。

Just about anything that comes up.

任何挡在你前面的障碍都会变成借口。

Just about any obstacle that gets in your way becomes an excuse.

它会变成一个理由。

It becomes a reason.

它会成为你不继续走这条路的合理借口。

It comes a rationale for not proceeding down that path.

而且这一点也很有意思。

And and and this is interesting too.

当你跟那些参加海豹突击队训练但没通过的人交谈时，大多数时候，他们都会找一个理由。

You when you talk to people that went to SEAL training that didn't make it, most of the time, it's some reason.

可能是医疗原因。

There's a medical reason.

可能是家庭问题。

There's a family problem.

很少有人会直说：‘我退出是因为太糟糕了’，而事实上，绝大多数人正是如此。

There's very few people that look at you and say, oh, I quit because it sucked, which is what by the way, which is what happens to the vast majority of people.

绝大多数没能通过海豹突击队训练的人——也就是说，大约90%没能通过的人——都是因为自己放弃了。

The vast majority of people that don't make it through SEAL training, and by this, I mean 90% of the people that don't make it through SEAL training, they didn't make it through because they quit.

只有一小部分人是因为健康问题，还有一小部分人是因为表现不合格。

Then there's a small percentage that had a medical problem, then there's a small percentage that got performance dropped.

也就是说，他们无法完成跑步、游泳或任务中的技术环节，因而失败并被淘汰。

Meaning they couldn't perform the runs, the swims, the the technical aspects of the job, and they failed, and they get dropped.

但绝大多数人选择退出，他们通常不会这么说。

But the vast majority of people, they quit, but they don't usually say that.

甚至在他们自己心里，可能也不相信这个理由。

And even in their mind, they probably don't believe it.

他们可能觉得，嗯，是我的腿出了问题。

They probably believe, well, you know, it was my leg.

一旦我的腿开始疼，我就知道在跑步时会很难熬。

And once my leg was hurting, I knew I was gonna have a hard time on the runs.

既然我没法完成跑步，我就干脆退出了，这就是原因。

Since I wasn't gonna be able to make the runs, I just that's why I quit.

但其实那并不是真的退出。

But it wasn't really quitting.

是因为我的腿才退出的。

It was because of my leg.

所以就像我说的，这非常奇怪，简直有点神秘。

So it's it's it's like I said, it's a very it's a very strange and and and and really kind of a a mystical thing.

借口。

Excuses.

你刚才说的是人们在找借口。

You're talking there about people making excuses.

是的。

Yeah.

你对借口的本质有什么认识？它们是朋友还是敌人？有没有可能有用？

What have you come to learn about the nature excuses and if they are our friends, our enemies, if they're ever useful?

如果你任由它们发展，你的借口会毁掉你，夺走你拥有的一切。

Your excuses will destroy you and take everything that you ever wanted from you if you let them.

听起来不像朋友。

Doesn't sound like a friend.

不是。

No.

绝对不是朋友。

It's definitely not a friend.

这绝对不是朋友。

It's definitely not a friend.

它可能看起来像朋友，就像那个在酒吧不断给你倒酒的朋友，表面上像是在帮你，但他们真的在任何方面帮助你了吗？

It it can seem like a friend just like your friend that keeps feeding you drinks at the bar can seem like a friend, but are they really helping you in any way, shape, or form?

没有。

No.

他们没有。

They're not.

他们没有。

They're not.

所以当你找借口，让自己对没有完成该完成的事情感觉好一点时，这些借口确实能让你感觉好些。

So when you when your excuses make you feel a little bit better about the fact that you didn't execute on what you needed to execute on, then they can make you feel better.

但它们并没有帮助你。

But they're not helping you.

它们一点都没帮到你。

They're not helping you at all.

这就是你所说的吗

Is that what

当你想到极致负责制时——也就是我面前这本书的标题——借口是不是它的反面？

you when you think about extreme ownership, which is the title of this book here in front of me, is are excuses the opposite?

借口和推卸责任，是不是极致负责制的反面？

Excuses and blame, is that the opposite of extreme ownership?

这正是极致负责制的反面。

That is the opposite of extreme ownership.

极致负责制意味着：这件事搞砸了，目标没达成。

Extreme extreme ownership is this went wrong, This failed.

没有完成这件事。

Didn't accomplish this.

这不是我老板的错。

And it's not the fault of my boss.

也不是我女朋友的错。

It's not the fault of my girlfriend.

这不是我父母的错。

It's not the fault of my parents.

这不是天气的错。

It's not the fault of the weather.

这是我的错。

It's my fault.

我会对此负责，并且我会解决它。

And I'm gonna take ownership of it, and I'm gonna fix it.

这就是极端负责的意思。

That's what extreme ownership is.

但这是一件非常难做到的事，因为会让人痛苦。

And this is a very difficult thing to do because it hurts.

因为当你审视自己的生活、工作、财务状况、人际关系和身体健康时，当你看到这些方面存在的所有问题，并意识到这些问题的根源在于你自己时，这可能会让人感到痛苦。

Because when you look around at your life and you look around at your job and your financial situation and your relationship and your physical health, and when you look at all those things and all the problems that you may have with those things and you say, the reason I have all those problems is because of me, that can hurt.

这会让人感到刺痛。

That can sting.

很多时候，我们的自尊心会拒绝这一点，找借口，编造谎言。

And a lot of times, our ego rejects that and makes excuses and lies.

然后我们就不必做出任何改变，于是什么都不会改变。

And then we don't have to change anything, and then nothing changes.

如果有人极端地陷入借口和指责的泥潭，你有什么建议可以帮他们走出来，跨越这个阶段吗？

If someone was on the extreme end of that disease of excuse and blame and all of those things, is there anything that you could do or you would advise them to do to kinda walk back from there to get over the other side?

因为我觉得我们每个人都能想到生活中的一些人，甚至有时候也包括我们自己，陷入了长期用借口和指责作为自我保护的模式，因为我们不愿意把镜子转向自己，直面现实。

Because I think we can all think of people in our lives, and maybe even ourselves at times, who have gotten into a chronic pattern of using excuses and blame as a form of self defense because we don't wanna turn that mirror back at us and have to confront reality.

比如，我觉得有时候，当我想到我一些最亲密的朋友时，那些自尊心最低的人往往最常使用借口和指责，因为你知道，个人责任在短期内至少不会改善我本已低落的自尊。

Like, I think sometimes if I think about my some of my closest friends, those that have the lowest self esteem will use excuse excuses and blame the most because it's, you know, personal responsibility might not, in the short term, at least do anything for my already low self esteem.

所以我选择责怪世界，作为一种自我保护。

So I'm gonna blame the world as self defense.

那么，走出这种状态的第一步是什么？

What's step one to get out of that?

不幸的是，很多时候——你可能见过，也可能没见过，但我相信你一生中一定见过这样的情况：人们——这是一个术语。

Well, unfortunately, what happens a lot, and you you may or may not have seen this, but I I would assume you've seen this at some point in your life, people and this is a term.

有一个术语。

There's a term.

叫触底。

It's rock bottom.

对吧？

Right?

这个术语我们常听到，用来形容那些上瘾的人、酗酒者、身体状况严重下滑的人，或者在财务、工作等方面陷入困境的人，他们达到了触底的境地。

This is a term that we hear for someone that's addicted, someone that's an alcoholic, someone that's physically let themselves go, someone that's put themselves into a situation with their finances or their work or whatever where they reach rock bottom.

而所谓触底，我认为就是当你环顾四周时，你之前找的所有借口都不复存在了。

And rock bottom, what happens is you've I believe what rock bottom is is as you look around all the excuses that you've made, they're not there anymore.

因此，触底意味着你意识到，这个问题——无论是酒精、财务，还是其他——根源在于你自己。

And so now what rock bottom is, you realize that this problem, whether it's alcohol, whether it's your finances, the problem is you.

通常情况下，或者在最好的情形下，触底正是向上攀升、走向好转的起点。

And normally or hopefully in the best case scenario, rock bottom is the beginning of the upward climb, the upward path.

但有时，触底也会导致灾难和彻底的绝望。

Sometimes rock bottom leads to disaster and complete abandonment of hope.

但当所有借口都消失，人们真正面对这个事实——这一切都是因为我，这固然痛苦，却也令人无比振奋。

But when the excuses all go away and people can actually confront the fact that this is all because of me, and this is it hurts, but is also unbelievably empowering.

因为如果这些问题源于我，那我就有能力解决这些问题。

Because if these problems are because of me, then I'm capable of fixing these problems.

所以，尽管绝对负责带来痛苦和煎熬，但它也是解放的，因为现在你掌控了自己的命运，而这是极其光荣的事。

So even though extreme ownership hurts and is painful, it's also liberating because now you have control over your fate and over your destiny, and that is a glorious thing.

自律即自由。

Discipline is freedom.

你这本书的标题是：自律等于自由。

The title of your your book here, discipline equals freedom.

这看起来似乎不对，因为当人们想到自律时，会想到僵化、剥夺自由，觉得自律意味着被束缚。

Now that seems like it's untrue because when people think of discipline, they think of rigidity and and and taking away their freedom, having to be disciplined.

为什么自律等于自由？

Why is why does discipline equal freedom?

因为你在生活中越自律，最终就会获得越多的自由。

Because the more discipline you have in your life, the more freedom you will end up with.

如果你缺乏锻炼和健康饮食的自律，最终就会沦为疾病的奴隶。

So if you lack the discipline to exercise and eat healthy, you will end up being a slave to disease.

如果你缺乏努力工作、储蓄金钱的自律，最终就会沦为财务的奴隶。

If you lack the discipline to work hard, save your money, you will end up a slave to finances.

如果你缺乏合理管理时间的自律，最终就会没有一点自由时间。

If you lack the discipline to manage your time correctly, you will end up with no free time.

如果你有自律，能够储蓄金钱、努力工作并正确投资，能够合理管理时间而不浪费大量光阴，能够坚持锻炼和健康饮食，你最终就会获得自由。

If you have self discipline, if you have the discipline to save your money and work hard and invest your money properly, if you have the discipline to manage your time correctly and not waste a bunch of time, if you have the discipline to exercise and eat healthy, you will end up with freedom.

我知道这听起来反直觉。

And it's I know it's a counterintuitive.

这与主流观点相悖，但我一次又一次地见证过这一点。

It's contrarian, but I've seen this over and over and over again.

如果你想要生活中的自由，你就必须拥有自律。

If you want freedom in your life, you have to have discipline.

现在会有一些孩子在听这段话。

There's gonna be some kid listening to this now.

总是想想正在听的人，他们正躺在那儿吃着多力多滋薯片。

Always think about the personas that are listening, and they are, you know, eating Doritos off their belly.

吐出来。

Spit them out.

吐出来。

Spit them out.

现在就开始。

Start now.

因为如果你现在是个孩子，正躺在那儿吃多力多滋薯片，我知道它们味道不错，能带来即时的满足感，我理解。

Because if you're a kid right now and you're eating Doritos off your belly, I know they taste good and there's some immediate gratification, and I get that.

但我告诉你，一切就从现在开始。

But I'm gonna tell you, it starts right now.

把那袋多力多滋扔掉。

Throw that bag of Doritos away.

把它处理掉。

Get rid of it.

去做一些俯卧撑。

Go do some push ups.

去五金店花12美元买个引体向上杆，挂在你房间里，开始做引体向上。

Go spend $12 at the hardware store and hang up a pull up bar in your room and start doing pull ups.

如果你一个引体向上都做不了，就挂在杆上，你会慢慢变得更强壮。

And if you can't do one pull up, hang on that bar, and you're gonna start to get a little bit stronger.

你会慢慢变得更健康。

You're gonna start to get a little bit healthier.

你会慢慢变得更加专注。

You're gonna start to get more focused.

你会慢慢变得更加坚韧，能够完成引体向上，开始一直健康饮食，并且更好地理解这个世界。

You're gonna start to become more resilient, and you're gonna start to be able to do a pull up, and you're gonna start to eat healthy all the time, and you're gonna start to understand the world better.

你会在生活的各个方面开始取得进步。

And you're gonna start to progress in every aspect of your life.

你会看到，如果你现在就有这样的自律，最终你会获得自由。

And you'll see that if you have that kind of discipline right now, you're gonna end up with freedom.

如果你没有这种自律，继续吃那些多力多滋薯片，不努力工作，不锻炼，不全力以赴，你最终会被束缚住。

And if you don't have that kind of discipline and you keep eating those Doritos and you don't work hard and you don't exercise and you don't apply yourself, you're gonna end up you're gonna end up shackled.

你会被一个你不喜欢的老板束缚，做着你不喜欢的工作，遭受着你不想要的疾病，只能依赖那些你根本无法信任的人。

You're end shackled by a boss that you don't like doing a job that you don't like to do with sicknesses and diseases that you don't want, relying on people that you can't even count on alone.

但你不必如此。

And you don't have to.

但如果你有自律，如果你有自律，你就能获得自由。

But if you have discipline if you have discipline, you will attain freedom.

而这始于把那些多力多滋薯片吐出来。

And it starts with just spitting the Doritos out.

始于把那些多力多滋薯片吐出来。

Starts with spitting the Doritos out.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Indeed.

你做的一件事，就是是的。

One of the things you do, which is yeah.

我的意思是，你因为这个想法而非常出名，那就是早起。

I mean, you you're super famous for it, is this idea of waking up early.

我不是那种早起的人。

Now I'm not someone that wakes up early.

我知道，你不用闹钟，通常十一二点才起床。

I know you no alarm clock, and you're usually up by eleven.

我我

I I

好吧，我从不安排十一点前的会议。

Well, I so no meetings before eleven.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Got it.

我确实睡得很晚。

Got I I stay up quite late.

是的。

Yep.

你能给我一个改变这种习惯的最佳理由吗？

What's the best case you could give me for changing that?

我需要改变这一点吗？

And do I need to change that?

因为我的做法是，你知道的，我飞到了洛杉矶。

Because I what I what I do is, you know, I flew into LA.

我时差还没倒过来。

I'm jet lagged.

几天后我又得飞回去。

I'm flying back in a couple of days.

我落地时还是会时差颠倒。

I'm gonna be jet lagged when I land as well.

所以我现在努力不惜一切代价保护我的睡眠，因为我逐渐意识到，睡眠是我表现的基础。

So what I'm trying to do is just protect my sleep at all cost because I've come to learn that it's really the foundation of my performance.

如果我睡眠不足就去上班，我在情绪上、创造力上，或者各种其他方面无法正常发挥的可能性会很高，而这对我来说是最大的风险。

So if I if I'm unslept and I show up at work, the chance that I'm not gonna show up correctly in a variety of ways, emotionally, creatively, whatever, is high, and that for me is the greatest risk.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在过去一两年里，我直接决定优先保证睡眠，因为一旦做到这一点，其他事情似乎都会随之顺利起来。

So I just I've in the last sort of year or two of my life, I've just said, okay, prioritize sleep because then everything else seems to follow.

但当我听说你经常在凌晨四点四十五分或四点三十分醒来，几乎是天天如此，而且我还在社交媒体上亲眼看到你日复一日地上传你的闹钟照片。

But when I heard that you wake up sometimes at 04:45 or 04:30, like, pretty much all the time, and you I've literally seen you on social media upload your your alarm clock day after day after day.

我心想：天啊。

I go, shit.

也许我该重新考虑一下了。

Maybe I should rethink.

不用。

No.

我认为，如果你的系统运行得不错，那就没必要做任何改变。

I think if you're if you've got a system that's working well for you, and then I wouldn't change anything.

对吧？

Right?

如果你觉得自己表现良好，身体健壮，能完成所有需要完成的工作，而且你天生就是夜猫子、喜欢晚起，那就坚持下去。

If you feel like you're performing well, you're physically healthy, you're getting all the work done that you need to do, you're a naturally more of a a late night, late morning type person, I'd run with it.

如果你告诉我，有时候我起床，有时候不起，有时候熬夜，有时候不熬夜。

It's If you were telling me, yeah, sometimes I get up, sometimes I don't, sometimes I work late, sometimes I don't.

我不是每天都锻炼。

I'm not don't work out every day.

你知道的？

You know?

有时候我会觉得昏昏沉沉。

Sometimes I feel groggy.

如果你告诉我这种状况，我会说，好吧。

If you were telling me that kind thing, I'd say, okay.

选一个时间，每天都在这个时候起床。

Pick a time and start waking up at that time every day.

不一定要早上4点40分。

Doesn't have to be 04:40.

可以是早上8点。

It could be 08:00.

也可以是早上7点。

It could be 07:00.

这并不重要。

It doesn't matter.

也可以是早上11点。

It could be 11:00.

但尽量在同一时间睡觉，也在同一时间起床，这会为你所做的一切打下良好的基础。

But try and go to bed around the same time and try and wake up around the same time, and that's gonna be a great foundation for everything that you're doing.

而且我会说，早上醒来后做一些运动，因为我认为这有助于让你的一天有个良好的开端。

And I would say when you wake up in the morning, do some kind of exercise because I think that is very helpful in getting your day started correctly.

在生活习惯、日常安排和自律方面，你的不可妥协的原则是什么？

What are your nonnegotiables in your life in terms of habits, routines, disciplines?

我每天早起并且锻炼。

I wake up early, and I work out every day.

那就是我的生活最基本的要求。

That's that's kinda my my that's that's those are the minimum requirements in my life.

练习柔术。

Train jujitsu.

我并不是每天都能练习柔术，但只要能练，我就一定会练。

I I don't get to train train jujitsu every single day, but if I can train jujitsu, I'm gonna train jujitsu.

我每天都会锻炼。

I'm gonna work out every day.

如果能冲浪，我一定会去冲浪。

If I can surf, I'm gonna surf.

你知道的。

You know?

我显然每天都得工作。

I I obviously have to work every day.

我每天都会做点什么工作。

I I work every day doing something.

你知道的。

You know?

我拥有多家公司。

I've got a bunch of different companies.

我得写书、做播客等等。

I gotta write books, podcasts, so on.

我每天都工作。

I I work every day.

你有没有不自律的时候？

Are you ever undisciplined?

哦，有的。

Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

巧克力曲奇。

Chocolate chip cookies.

它们是我自律上的一个失误。

They're a they're a a discipline lapse for me.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，是的，我不是一个赛博格。

So, yeah, I'm I'm not a cyborg.

挣扎真难受。

Struggle sucks.

这取决于你怎么看待它。

Depends on how you frame it.

对吧？

Right?

取决于你怎么看待它。

Depends on how you frame it.

因为我还在想着你在海滩上，你知道的，他们说：‘走出去，乔科。’

Because I'm thinking about you still at the beach, the you know, and they say, walk out, Jocko.

林克来了，然后走出去。

Link comes and walk out.

你把那描述成很糟糕。

You described that as sucking.

是的。

Yep.

但你也在说，那些糟糕的事情背后有巨大的价值。

But what you're also saying is there's huge value in things that suck.

在那些糟糕事情的另一面，是值得珍惜的东西。

On the the other side of something that sucks is something worth cherishing.

我说的不只是巨大的价值，而是核心价值。

I would say not just huge value, but the value.

核心价值。

The value.

你想知道那些目前没有方向的年轻人吗？

You wanna know if you're a you're talking about young men that might not have any direction right now?

去做点困难的事情。

Go go do something that's hard.

去尝试完成一件困难的事。

Go try and accomplish something that's hard.

你可能会赢。

You may win.

你可能会输。

You may lose.

你可能会成功。

You may succeed.