1号省钱专家：别买房！把钱存银行只会让你更穷！

那对于像我这样的普通人意味着什么？

And so what does that mean for for me as a average person?

在我看来，经济体系将开始变革。我们将进入丰饶世界，但不知道什么才有价值。作为人类，我们需要转型重塑，变得更像'人'，因为AI和机器人无法成为人类。我们必须解决所有这些问题。

For me, it's like the economic system starts changing. We get to this world of abundance. We don't know what has value. What we as humans do, we we we change and retool to become more humans because AI and robots can't be humans. So we have to figure all of this stuff out.

投资。我们之前讨论过这个。问题是，AGI（人工通用智能）是否会比我们任何一个人都更擅长投资？

Investing. We were talking about this earlier. It's like, well, does the AGI, is that gonna be a better investor than any of us?

是的。人工通用智能，

Yes. Artificial general intelligence of,

比如，更聪明

like, smart

所以那是下一个阶段，它比历史上任何人类都更聪明，而我们离那一步已经非常接近了。那么在这种情况下，市场如何运作？当企业是向其他代理销售商品的代理时，我们的角色在哪里？我毕生的工作就是展望未来十年，试图概率性地理解各种路径。但到了2030年，眼前就像拉上了一道黑幕。

So that's the next stage where it's smarter than any human that's ever existed, and we're very close to that. So in which case, well, how do markets work? And when businesses are agents selling stuff to other agents, where do we play a role? So all I'm saying is my job, my whole life is to be to look into the future ten years out and try and probabilistically understand paths. Here, I get to, like, 2030, and it's like a dark curtain.

换个角度想一下，AI实际上如何能对你的假设产生积极影响？

Just to flip that for a second, how could AI actually positively influence your hypothesis?

我对AI持非常乐观的态度。我认为人类会安然度过这个阶段。我认为经济会爆发式增长，我们可以找到方法让它惠及人类或社会，或者我们想实现的任何目标。我并非末日论者。

I'm very positive about AI. I think humanity will come out of this just fine. I think economic growth that explodes is we can work a way of accretion it to to humans or society or whatever we wanna do with this. I'm not an am I doomer.

具体到比特币的价值和价格，AI如何能让它在未来变得更加重要？

Specifically on Bitcoin's value and price, how could AI make it even more important in in Well,

归根结底，人工智能需要两项基本输入。它需要的是——用马斯洛需求层次理论来说——计算能力和能源，并且需要获得报酬。你不可能让数十亿个这样的智能体四处执行任务却不支付费用。而且智能体会使用其他智能体，比如一个智能体会雇佣另外十个来完成所有任务。

in the end, an AI is a it requires two inputs. It requires it's it's Maslov's hierarchy of needs is basically two things, compute and energy, and it needs to be paid. These agents can't you can't build all these agents of billions of agents running around doing things without paying for them. And agents will use agents. So they will one agent will get another 10 agents to do all this task.

它们都必须获得报酬，而实现这一点的途径就是使用加密货币。

They're all gonna have to be paid. And the way of doing that is using crypto

支付通道。稳定币。

rails. Stablecoins.

无论是稳定币还是其他形式，整个加密货币支付体系——这些为互联网构建的新基础设施、区块链——才是解决方案所在。

Whether it's stablecoins, whatever it is, but that whole crypto rail, know, all of this new infrastructure for the Internet, the the blockchain, that's where it works.

通常，一家公司成败的关键不在于产品或战略，而在于内部人员。毕竟，公司的定义就是'一群人'，世界上一些最优秀的企业主要由A级人才构建。让我告诉你个秘密：当你雇佣一个A级人才，他们会继续招募更多A级人才，形成良性循环。真正的挑战在于找到最初那几个A级人才。

Often, the difference between a company succeeding or failing isn't down to its product or strategy. It's down to the people on the inside. After all, the definition of the word company is group of people, and some of the best companies in the world have been largely built by a players because I'll let you in on a little secret. When you hire an a player, they go on to hire more a players, and it perpetuates. The challenge is finding those first few a players.

我大部分核心团队来自本节目赞助商领英。领英提供我在别处找不到的人才——既具备所需技能，又符合企业文化。每次在领英付费推广职位，我都能更快且更优质地完成招聘。数据也证明：相比免费发布，付费职位能带来三倍符合条件的申请者。

I found the majority of mine on LinkedIn who are a sponsor of this show. LinkedIn provides talent I could not find anywhere else, talent with the necessary skills and culture fit that I'm looking for. Whenever I've paid to promote a role on LinkedIn, I've been able to hire faster and, of course, better. The data supports this too. You'll actually get three times more qualified applicants than if you posted the same role for free.

如果你想打造非凡事业，现在就可以免费发布职位，访问linkedin.com/doac（即linkedin.com/d0ac）。当然需遵守相关条款。还记得我在播客中与人类学家丹尼尔·利伯曼的对话吗？那是我们播放量最高的对谈之一，而回放最多的片段正是我谈论这款产品的时刻。

So if you're trying to build something truly great, you can get started by posting a job for free by visiting linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/d0ac, and you can post your role for free there. Terms and conditions, of course, apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time, and the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product.

这些是我称之为Vivo Barefoot的赤足鞋，它们极大地减少了支撑，让我的双脚得到了它们迫切需要的强化机会。如果你从这个播客中学到了什么，那可能是我们正生活在一个舒适危机中，在我们生命的每一刻，我们都在做这样的权衡：是现在更舒适但未来更不适，还是现在稍不舒适但未来更强健。对我来说，选择穿赤足鞋就是后者。如果你想开始强化你的脚和身体，请访问vivobarefoot.com/steven，结账时使用代码steven b 20可享8折优惠，还附带一百天退款保证。

These are what I call Barefoot Shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. If you've learned anything from this podcast, it might be that we're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And for me, that is the choice to wear barefoot shoes. So if you wanna start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot.com/steven and you'll get 20% off when you use code steven b 20 at checkout. That also comes with a one hundred day money back guarantee.

你有什么可失去的呢？我想问你一个问题。是的。我之所以去拿手机是因为有人联系了我，是我童年认识的人。

What have you got to lose? I wanted to ask you a question. Yeah. The reason I went and got my phone is because Yes. I had someone contact me that I knew from my childhood.

曾经是我最好的朋友之一。嗯。坦白说，十年没联系了，突然给我发短信。短信内容是：我想听听你的意见，因为我最后对他说，听着，我不是该问这个问题的人，我觉得你误解了我是谁。

Used to be one of my best friends. Mhmm. Frankly, not spoke to them in ten years, sent me a text message. And the text message they sent me is I wanted to get your opinion on this because I I said I ended up saying to him, listen, I'm not the guy to ask about this. I think you've misunderstood who I am.

嗨，梅。希望你一切安好。我遇到了一些债务麻烦，大约4万英镑。所以不止是‘一点’麻烦。我想寻求一些建议和方向，可能是关于被动收入或某种途径来逐步解决它。

Hi, May. I hope you're well. I got myself in a bit of trouble with some debt, about £40,000. So more than a bit of trouble. After I'm after some advice and direction in terms of maybe passive income slash an avenue to try and work my way out of it.

有什么我应该阅读或观看的资料吗？我问他，这是什么类型的债务？他说，个人贷款和信用卡，老兄。我说，我需要弄清楚这些债务有多紧急，是否造成了任何即时问题。他说，嗯，它们不是特别紧急。

Is there some material I should be reading, watching that you might know of? And I asked him, I said, what kind of debt is it? And he said, personal loans and credit cards, mate. And I said, like, how I need to ascertain how urgent those debts are and if it's causing any any immediate issues. And he said, well, they're not super urgent.

但由于高额的月度支出，这个月我房贷晚还了一个月。所以，情况有点紧急，但我不想继续这样下去。目前每月还款大约1000美元或800英镑，我无法获得合并贷款。这简直是完美风暴的开始，因为我刚换新工作，伴侣在休产假，还有这座债务大山。它开始影响我的家庭了。

But as a result of the high monthly outgoings, I'm a month behind my mortgage payment this month. So it, like, is, but it's not because I don't want to keep being in that position moving forward. It's costing me circa $1,000 or £800 a month in repayments at the moment, and I can't get a consolidation loan. It's a perfect storm starting because I've just started a new job, and my partner is on maternity leave, and I have this debt mountain. It's starting to affect my family

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果我付不起房贷，你懂吗？所以我必须改变未来的方向，想办法解决这个问题，而你是寻求建议的最佳人选。

If I can't pay the mortgage. You know? So I've gotta change moving forward and figure out what to do, and you're the man to ask for advice.

我当时就想，真是见鬼了。我不是我的

I was like, fuck me. I'm not my

然后他在一小时内又给我发消息说，嘿，抱歉兄弟。如果你忙的话，只是想提醒一下这件事。一小时后他又发消息，因为我在飞机上，他说，嘿，我真的需要一些方向上的帮助，兄弟。

and then he messaged me again within an hour and said, hey. Sorry, man. If you're busy, just wanted to nudge this. Then messaged again an hour later because I was on a flight and said, hey. I really need some help in direction, man.

我很快就无处可求了。

I'm quickly running out of places to turn.

他现在处境很艰难，因为欠了4万英镑的债务，假设利率是15%到20%，利息支付很快就会失控

He's kind of in a hard spot because £40,000 in debt with the interest payments of let's say your interest rate is 15 to 20%, that starts to spiral out of control a

一点点。

little bit.

如果他的债务低于1万英镑，情况会稍微可控一些。但4万英镑的话，利息会迅速累积。你说他有房贷，他甚至可能要考虑搬家、卖掉房子，至少控制住利息支付，或者减少债务总额。这种情况下，你需要尽可能削减每一项开支，然后把所有钱都投入到利率最高的债务上。

Like if he was under £10,000 in debt, it's a little bit more manageable. But at 40,000, the interest starts to compound quite quickly. So you said he had a mortgage. He might even have to consider moving, selling, selling the home to at least get the interest payments under control or, like, reduce that amount of debt. It's kind of the one of those situations where you just need to reduce every single expense possible and start really pouring all your money into the highest interest rate debt that he owns.

所以，你可以把所有的债务按利率从高到低排序，然后从最高的开始处理，对吧？如果某个债务利率高达22%，你肯定想先摆脱它，因为那才是真正拖垮你的。在那个债务水平下，情况确实很艰难，我觉得很多人会考虑申请破产，只是为了清除那部分债务，具体取决于他的收入。我认识一个服务员，她有5万美元的信用卡债务，却因为利息支出几乎等于她的工资而无法摆脱。

So, like, you know, you can rank your interest rates of all your debts from highest to lowest and start start at the very top. Right? If it has 22% interest rate, you want to get rid of that first because that's what's killing them. At those levels of debt, it's really tough because I think a lot of people consider bankruptcy at that point, just to kind of clear that amount of debt, depending on what his income is. I know I've known, let's say, a waitress or server that had $50,000 in credit card debt and unable to get over it because the interest payments were as much as their salary.

所以在这种情况下，除非你能从家人那里获得个人贷款来清偿债务，否则处境会非常艰难。尽可能减少开支，把所有的闲钱都用来偿还利率最高的债务，然后考虑变卖一些资产——如果他还有资产的话。破产。破产。

So in those cases, unless you can get a personal loan from, let's say, a family member and, you know, kind of clear that debt, you're in a really tough spot. Reduce your expenses as much as possible. Put any extra money you have towards that debt at the highest interest rate possible, the first the highest interest rate thing, and then consider selling some assets if he has assets. Bankruptcy. Bankruptcy.

什么时候应该考虑破产，代价是什么？

When should someone consider bankruptcy, and what's the trade off?

代价是七年。在美国，你的信用会彻底毁掉。不过前几天有人发推给我看了一张图表，显示美国谷歌上破产律师搜索量的趋势，结果一直在上升，这不是个好现象。破产嘛，有不同的类型可以申请，但我知道它通常能清除部分甚至全部债务，而你基本上得从头再来。但代价是你会失去很多特权，比如信用评分。

The trade off is seven years. I believe your credit is shot in America. So but I I believe that actually, I think if you pull up a chart someone sent me a tweet the other day of, like, bankruptcy lawyer searches in America on Google, and it's, like, been kind of like going up into the right, which is not a great thing. Bankruptcy just, you know, there's different types of bankrupt bankruptcy that you can file for, but I do know that it usually clears some, if not all, your debt, and you basically have to start over. But as a result, you lose a lot of your privileges, like, for example, no credit score.

我读过某个统计数据——不知道你确认过没有——大意是说人们因为破产的污名而避免申请。但观察那些申请破产的人十年后的财务状况，他们通常比那些试图避免破产的人过得更好。

I've read some stat. I'm not you might know if this is true, but I read a stat that it said something to the effect that people avoid going into bankruptcy because of the stigma associated with it. When they looked at the financial performance over ten years of people that did go into bankruptcy, those that did typically were better off than those that tried to avoid it for the next So ten

嗯，我不确定。这可能是传闻。很难说，如果你有五万美元债务却只赚五万美元年薪，那确实……

yeah. I don't know. That could be anecdotal. I don't know. That's tough because if you have $50,000 in debt and you make $50,000 a year, it's yeah.

情况不同。某种程度上破产是好事，因为它迫使你进行危机管控。就像你一开始提到的，人们应该审视自己的开支……对，支出。

It's different. Bankruptcy in some ways is a good thing because it forces you to do crisis control. It's like your expenditure, what you're doing, what everything becomes hyper focused. Like, you you led in the beginning with about, you know, how people should look at their expense Yeah. Expenditure.

对吧？确实。当你负债4万美元时，你显然没有做到这一点。没错。而破产实际上迫使你在相当长的一段时间内养成这种纪律性，最终形成习惯。

Right? Yeah. When you're $40,000 in debt, you've not been doing that. Correct. And bankruptcy actually forces you to to actually discipline that for a extended period of time where it becomes a habit.

所以斯蒂芬，这就是为什么他们最终表现更优——因为你在这个讨论一开始就提到的习惯已经建立起来了。

So, Stephen, that's why they outperform in the end because you've created the habit that you talked about right in the beginning of this discussion.

是的。我刚查到这个数据：这是金融领域令人不安的真相之一，答案往往是肯定的。那些申请破产的人长期状况反而比那些长期试图逃避破产的人要好。研究表明，申请破产者通常能彻底清除债务，摆脱无力偿还的负债。

Yeah. So I I just found the stat here. It said, yeah, this is one of the uncomfortable truths in finance, and the answer is often yes. Those who file for bankruptcy end up in a better place long term than those who try for prolonged periods of time to avoid it. And the research shows, that people who file for bankruptcy typically get their debt wiped out and cleaned, and they, removing unpayable debt.

破产能带来立竿见影的心理解脱，消除无力偿债的沉重压力。逃避者往往长期处于财务压力中，这种压力会蔓延到健康、人际关系和工作。简而言之，直面破产者通常恢复更快，长期处境反而比那些跛行挣扎的逃避者更稳固。

It's bankruptcy can bring immediate mental relief, removing the crushing stress of unpayable debts. People who avoid it often live in chronic financial stress, which spills into their health relationships and work. So in short, those who face bankruptcy head on often recover faster and end up in a long a stronger position than those who keep limping along trying to avoid it.

我想正在收听、可能处于类似困境的人最想知道的是：如何解脱？破产是一种选择，但归根结底必须做出改变——而这个改变是艰难的。这正是很多人难以启齿或理解的部分。解脱确实存在，但需要付出剧烈、极端且快速的牺牲。什么意思呢？

And I think somebody who's listening who may be in a similar or the same situation ultimately wants to know how do I get relief. Bankruptcy is one option, but at the end of the day, there has to be change, and that change is difficult. That's And the part that I think a lot of people have a hard time talking about or comprehending. There is relief, but it comes with severe, extreme, and quick sacrifice. What do I mean?

第一，你必须尽可能快地削减开支。必须变卖尽可能多的资产。破产当然有效，但你会失去房子，还会连带失去其他东西，这会造成巨大的情感代价。

Number one, you've got to cut back your expenses as fast as possible in that situation. You have to sell as much stuff as possible. I mean, bankruptcy obviously works, but you also lose your house. You also lose other things along with it. There's a lot of emotional toll with it.

如果你有家庭和孩子——这往往也是导致离婚的重要原因，所以它还会从多方面影响你的生活。你必须做出极端牺牲：比如取消奈飞订阅，不仅是因为每月15美元的开销，更因为美国人平均每天花两小时看奈飞。如果你身处这种困境却每天花两小时看奈飞，你晚上怎么睡得着？你本不该每晚睡足八小时。

You have a family, have a kid. Mean, it's also a big reason people end up getting a divorce, so it can also impact your life in many different ways. So you have to make extreme sacrifices, and I mean, get rid of the Netflix subscription, not because it's just costing you $15 a month, but because the average American is spending more than two hours a day watching Netflix. And if you're in that type of situation and you're spending two hours sitting there watching whatever the heck is on Netflix, how do you sleep at night? You shouldn't be sleeping eight hours a night.

你最好赶紧起床，想办法多赚点钱。我不在乎是开Uber还是去麦当劳打工。去找些额外收入，学习如何赚更多钱。虽然听起来残酷，但现实是，如果你想要巨大的改变，没有极端的行动是不可能实现的。

You better be getting up, go and try to get some more money. I don't care if it's Uber. I don't care if you're working McDonald's. Find some extra money and learn how you can earn some more money. And, I mean, it sounds harsh, but the reality is if you want extreme change, it's not gonna happen without extreme change.

那么你觉得他能卖掉房子吗？假设他年收入5万——根据对他工作和居住地的大致了解，这个数字应该是准确的。卖掉房子然后租公寓住？这样能释放资金吗？

So could he sell his house, do you think, that assuming he's making the 50 k, which I I think is probably accurate, having a vague understanding of his job and where he lives, etcetera? Sell his house and then move in rent an apartment? Would that free up capital?

我是说，这确实能立刻缓解他当前的困境。当然可以。

I mean, that would alleviate his current problem immediately. Sure.

他在这里提到，在寻求建议方向时可能涉及被动收入——这个'被动收入'的词汇我倒是知道。

He says here, after some advice direction in terms of maybe passive income this word passive income I know.

我 它是

I It's

让人抓狂。为什么这个词会让你抓狂？

stressing nuts. Why does it drive you nuts?

这是个...就像有个被动收入产业化复合体。我是说，这简直是每个千禧一代的梦想——'我要获得被动收入'。嗯哼。但这根本不存在。我们讨论过房产。房产是你所能想象的最不'被动'的收入。

It is a there's like a passive income industrialization complex that is I mean, it is literally every millennial's dream is, I'm gonna get passive income. Mhmm. And it doesn't exist. We talked about property. Property is the least passive income you can imagine.

太糟糕了。每次我试图出租房产，都有那么多开销。所有事情都会出问题，简直没完没了。你一直在支付各种费用。

It is awful. Every time I've tried to rent out property, there are so many costs. Everything goes wrong. It's just endless. You're paying fees.

人们以为存在某种神奇的被动收入。但任何收获都需要付出努力。世上根本没有不劳而获的事情——就连抢劫也得费劲呢，明白吗？

And people think there's there's there's a magic passive income. Everything comes with effort. There is no such thing as returns without effort. That's but even robbery comes with effort. You know?

不付出努力或不承担风险就想赚钱是不可能的。当你负债4万美元时，怎么会觉得被动收入能拯救你？他只是在TikTok和Instagram上看到那些——'我们是三十多岁的千禧一代，现在住在里斯本，靠房子的被动收入生活'，全是胡扯。

There's there's no way of making money without effort or risking something. And so when you're $40 in debt, how on earth do you think passive income is going to rescue you? But he's seen that on TikTok and, on Instagram. Oh, we're we're millennials in our in our thirties, and we're now living in in the in in Lisbon, and we've got passive income from our house. It's like it's bullshit.

这是社交媒体编织的虚幻美梦，根本不存在，也永远无法把他从4万英镑的债务中拯救出来。

It's social social media dream that doesn't really exist, and that's never gonna save him from £40,000 debt.

被动收入确实存在，问题在于人们对它的认知。我现在经济拮据，身无分文，还有账单要付。

Passive income can exist. The perception of what it is is the problem. I am struggling with money. I have no money. I got bills to pay.

我需要被动收入。但事情不是那样运作的。

I need passive income. And that's not how it works.

事情根本不是那样运作的。

That's not how it works.

运作方式是你把多余的钱拿出来。我去工作，存钱并投资一些钱。我把想投入两项投资的额外资金，可以投入一项资产、一项投资，它能让我无需实际工作、无需上班就能获得收益。现在让我问问你的房地产情况，因为我得一直请教你，老兄。你是自己管理房产，还是

The way it works is you take extra money. I'm going to work and I'm saving and investing some money. I take the extra money that I want to put my two investments, and I can put it into an asset, an investment, that can pay me for owning it without actually working, without going to work to own it. Now let me ask you about your real estate, because I gotta keep coming back to you, man. Did manage your real estate yourself, or did you

有经理人？两种方式我都试过。我既委托过管理代理，也自己管理过。

have manager? I've done both. I've had management agent and a management myself.

自己管理很可能是个彻头彻尾的噩梦。

Managing yourself is probably a a absolute nightmare.

那太可怕了。

That's horrific.

而通过经理人管理同样可能是个噩梦，只是场景不同罢了。

And managing it with a manager was also probably a nightmare just in a different scene.

是啊。而且因为你的收益率也会大幅下降。

Yeah. And because your yield is massively reduced as well.

确实下降了。

It is reduced.

然后你需要在短期租赁和长期租赁之间权衡取舍。短期租赁存在收益不稳定的风险，而长期租赁又是另一回事。你还得面对租客问题，他们可能很糟糕，造成的破坏也令人头疼。确实如此。

And then you take the trade off between whether you're gonna do short term lets or longer term rentals. And there's the volatility in the short term lets that you don't know what your yield's gonna be. Long term, different as well. Then you've got the tenants and how bad the tenants have been and the damage that they've done. Yep.

到最后，你会放弃并想，哦，真的吗？这根本不值得费这个劲。

By the end of it, you walk away and think, oh, really? It just wasn't worth the effort.

嗯，我我不同意

Well, I I would disagree with

是的。我是说，显然有些人确实能从房地产中赚大钱。

Yeah. The other I mean, obviously, people can do really well out of property.

房地产投资的工作在于学习这个过程。当我刚开始投资房地产时，完全是一场噩梦，一点也不被动，远非被动投资，简直就是噩梦。起初你不知道的是，有好物业经理，也有差物业经理。如何找到好的物业经理？就是通过经历许多糟糕的物业经理并学习这个过程。

The work in real estate investment is learning the process. When I first started investing in real estate, it was a complete nightmare, and it was not passive, anything close to passive, it was a nightmare. What you don't know when you start is that there's a good property manager, there's also a bad property manager. How do I find good property managers? By going through a lot of bad property managers and learning that process.

这是个痛苦的过程，非常耗时。但当你有了合适的团队，它可以变得极其被动。所以我我投资房地产。

And that is a painful process, a very time consuming process. But when you do have the right team, it can be extremely passive. So I I invest in real estate.

我们说的是哪种类型的房产？

What kind of properties are we talking about?

独栋住宅和多户公寓。

Single family houses and multifamily apartments.

你有很多这样的房产吗？

And do you have lots of them?

不算很多，但数量还算可观。

Not lots, but I have a decent amount.

那你投资组合中有多少比例是购买房产后出租给家庭的？

And how much of your portfolio is in buying properties and then renting them out to families?

50%。

50%.

过去十年里，你的年化回报率大概是多少？

And what are your returns been like over year over year for the last decade?

我看待回报的方式是这样的：当我收购一处房产时，我希望投入的资金能获得7%的现金回报率。所以说到回报，我并不关心资产增值。我们之前讨论过很多次，比如我花10万美元买下一栋房子，后来涨到20万美元——这不在我考虑范围内。我收购房地产的目标不是转手倒卖获利，而是持续扩大每月产生的现金流。

So the way I look at returns, when I look to acquire a property, is I want 7% cash on cash on the money that I put in. So when I look at return, I don't care about equity. We talked about this kind of a lot, that if I buy a house for, let's just call it $100,000 and it goes up to $200,000 I don't care. My goal when I acquire real estate is not to sell it and flip it for a profit. My goal is to grow the cash flow that I'm generating month after month after

月租金支付。

month rental payments.

来自租金收入。

From rental payments.

但这真的很困难，因为像我这样没怎么做过房产租赁之类事情的人，搞砸的几率绝对很高。

It's really difficult, though, because if I as someone that hasn't done a lot of property rentals and stuff like that, the chance that I'm gonna fuck up Absolutely. So high.

我就是那种可能搞砸次数多到数不清的人。这让我失眠过很多次，压力巨大。

And I'm one of those people that probably screwed up more than more than I can count. It does cost me a lot of sleep, cost me a lot of stress.

所以你必须得算是个专家才行。

So you have to kind of be an expert.

不必成为专家，但你得

You don't have to be an expert, but you gotta be

非常消极。在

really negative. In

最初的那几年，确实非常痛苦。但如今，当我购置房产时，我会像研究股票或其他投资一样深入研究房产。我会做足功课去调研一处房产。在当今经济环境下，要找到那样的回报率困难得多，但并非不可能。买下房产后，将钥匙交给物业经理，明确目标，现在我只需监督经理，因为我已经有了一个团队来

the beginning, right, for the first number of years, it was extremely painful. But today, when I go and I acquire a property, I will look for the property just like I do research on a stock or whatever I want to do. I do the work to research a property. In today's economy, it's much harder, not impossible, to find those returns. Acquire the property, hand over the keys to the property manager, give them the goals, and now I oversee the manager because I have a team now that is

这是一门生意。就像创办一家初创企业。

It's a business. It's a business. It's like starting a startup.

但这和创办初创企业不同。为什么？因为当我经营自己的公司时，我是在公司里工作，投入大量时间。我要与员工会面，主持会议。

But it's not like starting a startup. Why? Because starting a startup when I work at my company, I am working at my company, and I work a lot of hours. So I'm meeting with my employees. I'm leading the meetings.

我要构思创意，引领愿景。而购置房产后，我只需移交钥匙，设定好框架，剩下的执行就交给你们了。

I'm coming up with ideas. I'm leading the vision. With this, I acquire, I hand over the keys, I've already set the framework, and now you are doing the execution.

那是成熟企业的做法。我的公司在英国有数百名员工

That's a mature business. With my company, there's hundreds of people in The UK right

那个正在创办初创企业的人。

the one that's starting that startup.

我是创始人。

I was the founder.

那你现在做了什么？你招了更多员工来实现目标。

And now what have you done? You've acquired more employees to get there.

这正是你和你物业经理采取的策略。

Which is what you did with your property manager.

但初创公司要棘手得多。一家初创公司需要发展到多大规模，才能有财力支付员工薪资、创造收益，进而聘请新CEO来取代你，并引领公司

Much harder to deal with a startup, though. How big does a startup have to be in order to be able to displace you as a CEO to pay for the staff, to make the money, and then to hire a new CEO and to lead it the

这要看情况。我朋友阿什上周还在洛杉矶和我在一起，他的初创团队只有四人。他现在就在洛杉矶我的房子里，和我女友以及另一位仍在那里的挚友在一起。我看着他此刻正在泡热水浴缸——我知道是因为他每天固定时间都会泡澡，然后去爬山，我女友会发照片给我。他组建了这个四人团队，

way Depends. My friend's my friend, Ash, who was just with me last week in LA, has four people in his start up. He's out in LA right now in my house in LA with my girlfriend and my other best friend who's still there, And I watched he's in the hot tub right now. I know that because every day at the same time he goes in the hot tub, and then they go for this hike, and my girlfriend sends me photos. What he's done is he set up his team of four people.

专门帮人在领英打造个人品牌，团队在英国为他远程运营业务。而他现在正和我女友在该死的山上逍遥。

They do personal branding on LinkedIn for people, and they're running it back for him in The UK. He's up in bloody the mountain with my girlfriend right now.

这很美好。但有多少初创企业达不到这种状态？人们想创业

That's beautiful. But how many startups don't get there? People wanna start a business

却未能成功。对我来说...我当时觉得，哦，那不过就是门生意。所以

that don't get there. It to me. I was like, oh, that's just a it's just a business. So there's

这是一门生意。

is a business.

需要经历陡峭的学习曲线来培养专业知识，然后建立系统使其可持续运作。

A steep learning curve to develop expertise, and then you put systems in place to make it sustainable.

但系统某种程度上是预设好的——你需要出租房产，需要一位优秀的经理找到好租客，他们得按时支付账单。这不像创业需要我去创新和构思点子，也不必亲自去绘制蓝图。

But the systems are kind of preestablished where you need to rent it out. You need a good manager who's gonna find a good tenant. They gotta pay the bills. And it's it's not like a startup where I have to innovate and create an idea. I don't have to go out and build the blueprint.

我要做的是获取人们已有需求的现存资产，然后通过让人居住或使用来发挥其效用，再由团队负责维护。

I am going out, I'm acquiring an asset that people already need that's already existing, and then I'm going to put use to it by having somebody live there or use it, and then there's a team just maintaining it.

那么你对被动收入的看法如何？它真实可行吗？具体到住房问题——你会建议人们购买出租房产并通过收取租金作为收入来源吗？

So what do you think then in terms of passive income? And is it real? But specifically, let's do this point of housing. Do you advise people to buy rental properties and then generate rental fees from them as a source of income?

刚才贾斯珀已经说明了这需要多少工作量。因此我通常不建议人们涉足这个行业，不仅因为学习曲线陡峭，而且并非所有人都适合或具备足够资本。如果想入门并实际赚钱，我认为股市是最具流动性且最容易入门的领域。我个人租房，并计划继续租房，同时将可能用于房贷的差额资金投入股市。

Well, you just heard Jasper read of how much work it would take. So I I generally don't advise people to to get into that business just because of the steep learning curve, and not everyone is built for that. Not everyone has capital for that. So if you were just trying to get started and actually make some money, I just think the stock market is the most liquid and easiest place to get started. I personally rent, and I plan on renting and just instead investing the difference of what my mortgage payment might be in my my rent.

我认为在沿海地区，如旧金山、纽约、迈阿密，这种做法可能更合理。

I think in on the coasts, like San Francisco, New York, I think Miami, that might actually be the more reasonable thing to do.

我昨天刚读到《纽约时报》的一篇文章，说美国百万富翁租房人数创历史新高，从2019年2月到2023年2月间增长了三倍。短短几年间，百万富翁选择租房的比例前所未有地增加。这是怎么回事？

I was reading a New York Times article that just came out yesterday, and it said more millionaires than ever are renting in The United States, and that it's tripled between February '19 and 02/2023. So in just a couple of years, millionaires are choosing to rent more than ever before. What's going on?

我猜很多百万富翁可能住在沿海地区，因为他们投资较多或从事高薪工作，在旧金山、西雅图、纽约、洛杉矶这些地方买房对他们来说可能有点负担不起。

My guess would be a lot of the millionaires are probably living on the coast because they invest a lot or they have higher paying jobs, and maybe it's slightly unaffordable for them to buy a house in, say, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles.

《纽约时报》文章中提到，他们选择灵活性和流动性而非所有权，不想被房产税、保险等房屋所有权带来的麻烦所困扰，尤其是在佛罗里达和加州这些自然灾害频发的市场？

In the New York Times article, it says they're choosing flexibility and liquidity over ownership, and they don't want to be bothered with the inconveniences of homeownership, which includes paying a real estate tax and insurance, especially in markets like Florida and California, where we're seeing a lot of natural catastrophes?

没错。美国市场很特殊，因为持有房产要缴纳高额房地产税。你的收益始终被这部分支出削减，不管是1.5%还是2%，总归有这笔开销。此外还有其他叠加的房地产税。

Yeah. So The US is a peculiar market because there's this high real estate tax in owning real estate. So all the time, your returns are being reduced by that you pay. So whether it's like 1.5% or 2%, whatever the number is, there's that. And then there's the other real estate taxes that come on top of it.

利率一直居高不下，这种情况持续很久了。很多人光是利息支出就被市场拒之门外。但现在由于房贷月供的存在，与租房的关键区别在于——很多房东不需要覆盖房贷成本（因为他们已全款购房），所以租金更便宜。这本质上是价格问题。

Interest rates have been high. They've been high for a while now. So a lot of people have just been priced out of the market just in interest payments. But now, because of mortgage payments are here, the difference is actually with the rental is a lot of rental people aren't trying to cover mortgage costs because they own the property outright, so you get cheaper rates. So it's to do with price.

美国经济在普通民众层面尚未真正强劲。华尔街风光了好一阵子，但实体经济没有。人们还没有多余的收入。我认为这是原因之一，但可能也是更大趋势的体现。

The US economy has not been super strong yet at Main Street level. Wall Street's had a great period of time, but Main Street hasn't. So people don't have excess earnings yet. So I think it's a function of that, but it's probably a larger trend as well.

我觉得还涉及到对机会的把握。租房确实有很多灵活性。比如我自己直到2025年才买房，之前一直租房住。

I think also it's understanding what the opportunities are. Mean, there's a lot of flexibility with renting. I mean, I finally bought a house in 2025. I've been renting before this.

所以你今年买了第一套房产和家人一起住？

So you bought your first property to live in with your family this year?

对，是的。我原本计划是2025年才搬进去住的。

To from yes. Me to live in was 2025.

为什么你不早点这么做呢？

Why didn't you do it sooner?

嗯，因为租房时我可以动用资金购买其他出租房产或投资。所以对我来说，把钱用在其他地方更合理。

Well, because when I was renting, I could take the capital and buy other rental properties, buy other investments. So it was it made more sense for me to put that money to work somewhere else.

那么把买房作为积累财富的手段是个糟糕的主意吗？

So is buying a property as a means to generate wealth a terrible idea?

作为积累财富的手段，是买来自住还是...

As a means to generate to buy for yourself to live in or to

但是，你知道，我成长过程中大家都告诉我：先赚钱，找个工作，然后申请房贷。好像这就是该做的事。

Well, but, you know, when you when I grew up, everyone said to me that you get money, get a job, then you get a mortgage. And so, like, that's what you did.

这是你能给别人最糟糕的建议之一

That's one of the worst pieces of advice you can give somebody

但这就是大家都在做的事。绝大多数人至今仍在这么做。我之所以知道，是因为我观察那些没有像我这样获得财务建议的朋友们——比如我哥哥、我的财务顾问和会计师。他们手头一有点钱，第一件事就是去申请房贷。因为他们的父母这样做，所有人历来都这样做。

But that's what everyone's doing. That's still what the vast majority of people are doing. And I know that because I look at I look at my friends that don't have the same financial advice that I have from, like, my brother and my financial advisers, my accountants. And the first thing they do when they get a bit of money is they go and get a mortgage. And that's because that's what their parents did, that's what everyone's always done.

拉胡尔，你觉得这是个好主意吗？

Is that a good idea, Rahul?

既是也不是。不，我认为在当今经济环境下——别忘了，我24、25岁时在投行工作，当时收入并非最高，毕竟只是个25岁的年轻人。

Yes and no. No. I think these days, with how the economy is being set up, don't forget, when I was 24, 25, I was working in an investment bank. I wasn't the highest paid guy there. I was a 25 year old.

在伦敦买第一套公寓时，房价是我收入的3.5倍。如今同等公寓与收入的比值已达12倍。所以租房显然更合理，你不如去投资。购买所有你认为能带来回报的东西。但住宅、自住房从来不是也不该被视为投资。

And to buy my first flat in London was three and a half times my income. That equivalent flat and the equivalent income is 12 times. So rent makes much more sense now, and you might as well invest. Buy all the stuff that you think will drive returns. But a house, a primary house, is not an investment, never will be.

因为一旦购入你就不会出售，无法变现这笔资产。或许你的子女可以继承——如果你有孩子的话。所以它不是投资，但可以算是对未来的投资。

Because once you buy it, you don't sell it. You don't realize that equity. Maybe your kids do if you've got kids. So it's not an investment, but it can be an investment in your future.

但这里似乎存在某种视觉错觉。想到租房时我会觉得：这笔钱花出去就消失了。而买房时，我是在往存钱罐里存钱。所以逻辑上租房当然是浪费，钱给了别人就再也看不见了。

But there's, like, some optical illusion going on here because when I think about renting, I go, well, that money, I never see it again. I know. But with buying a house, I'm paying into it, so it's like me depositing the money in a piggy bank. So logically, of course, renting is wasting money. It goes to someone else and never see it again.

但这并不完全正确。如果你今天出去买一套50万美元的房子，我首付20%，也就是付10万美元首付，贷款40万美元，利率是6.5%。

But that's not exactly true. If you go out today, I buy a half a million dollar house. I put 20% down. So I put $100,000 down. I finance $400,000 I get a six and a half percent mortgage.

三十年按揭，我每月还款2500美元。现在我在做什么？我不是在租房，不是在给房东钱，而是在积累房产净值。

Thirty years, my mortgage payment is $2,500 a month. Now what am I doing? I'm not renting. I'm not giving money to my landlord. I'm building equity in my property.

但银行也深谙此道。他们会将你的按揭贷款前期利息占比调高。这是什么意思？当我支付2500美元时，不是12.5美元用于偿还本金积累房产净值，12.5美元支付利息。本金部分实际上...

But banks also understand the same game. They front load your mortgage. What does that mean? When I pay $2,500 it's not $12.50 dollars going to principal to build equity in my house and $12.50 dollars for interest. Principal It's being?

是在为自己赎回房子。这不是五五开，几乎全是利息。事实上，如果你今天以6.5%的利率贷款购买50万美元的房子，首付20%，在按揭的前20年里，超过一半的还款会直接以利息形式流入银行口袋。直到第21年，你2500美元的月供才有一半能真正积累为房产净值。

Buying your house back for yourself. It's not half and half. It's almost all interest. In fact, if you go on and buy the half a million dollar house today at a six and a half percent mortgage, 20% down, for the first twenty years of that mortgage, more than half of that payment is going to go directly to your banker's pocket with interest. It's not until you're 21 that half of your $2,500 payment is going to go towards equity in your house.

所以前期全是利息，零净值积累，然后缓慢变化。需要二十年才能达到平衡点。而很多人（并非所有人）在这个过程中会遇到利率下降，或者需要额外资金，于是选择重新贷款。一旦重新贷款，整个分期还款周期又从头开始，我又要支付大量利息，实际积累的净值依然寥寥无几。

So it's all interest, zero equity, and then slowly moves like this. It takes twenty years to get there. And then what happens along the way for a lot of people, not everybody, for a lot of people, is along the way, interest rates go down, I need some extra money, so what do I do? I refinance. As soon as I refinance, that amortization starts all over again, and so now I'm paying all this interest again, and my real equity that I'm building is not there.

这就是为什么我说买房并非坏事。我认为买房很好，但不要像你说的那样看待房子。别把房子当成投资，要视为消费支出。买房是因为你能负担得起，因为你想要，因为你准备好了，而不是为了积累财富。

This is why I say it's not bad to buy a house. I think it's great if you buy a house, but don't treat your house like like you said. Don't treat your house like an investment. Treat it like an expense. Buy buy it because you can afford it, because you want it, because you're ready, but not because you're going to build wealth.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

我同意他们俩的观点。我认为，房子是一种不容易快速变现的资产，这反而是件好事。比如，如果你有10万美元可以投入股市或用作首付，而你又是个情绪化的人，股市跌2%就会抛售，那买房可能是更好的选择。对吧？毕竟你不能像划两下手机就把房子卖掉。

I agree with both their takes. I think that, you know, a home is an asset that you can't sell very easily, so that's also a good thing. Like, if you have $100,000 to put into stocks or $100,000 to put on a down payment, and you know you were just such an emotional person that the moment that the stock market goes down 2% you're selling, probably better to buy a house. Right? You can't really sell your house in the tap of two swipes.

但作为投资而言，对大多数人来说买房远不止是投资。他们购房是出于心理需求、情感因素或安全感。所以我想说，如果你有购房意愿且负担得起，那就很棒。

But in terms of an investment, it's like usually, it's much more than investment to people. They they buy them for psychological reason or emotional reasons or the sense of security. So I would just say, like, if you're interested in buying a house and you you can afford it, then that that's great. Yeah.

我们来看看最理想的情况。你刚才提到这个例子：我花50万美元买了套房，升值到100万美元。天啊——

And let's actually go with the best case scenario. So I think you were mentioning this. I buy a house for, let's call it half a million dollars. It goes up in value to a million dollars. Oh my god.

我发财了是吧？虽然只是账面财富，但可以通过再融资套现。可问题在于：你现在拥有的是百万豪宅。

I'm rich. Right? Well, it's invisible, but yeah, I could take the cash out refinance, but now I had to pay all that. Here's the problem. You now own a million dollar house.

这意味着什么？你得按百万房产缴纳地产税，金额会高很多；还要支付百万豪宅的保险费。如果你把房子传给子女，他们确实继承了百万资产——

What does that mean? You have to pay property taxes on a million dollar house, so you've got to pay a lot more property taxes. You have to pay insurance on a million dollar house. So now if you pass this house down to your kids, great. They got a million dollar house.

但如果他们负担不起百万豪宅的税费和保险，最终只能变卖。

But if they can't afford the property taxes or the insurance on a million dollar house, now they have to sell

保险是容易被忽视的隐性成本，特别是在得克萨斯、俄克拉荷马这类飓风多发区。突然你会发现，除了税款之外，房屋保险费也高得令人望而却步。人们往往意识不到这点。

insurance is one of these really hidden costs that you don't realize, particularly if, like, if you're in a hurricane area like Texas or Oklahoma or something, suddenly your house insurance costs are prohibitive on top of the taxes you pay. People don't think about that.

那么，贾斯珀，你是说买比特币对吧？

So, Jasper, you're saying by Bitcoin. Right?

全押进去。你离拥有一切就差一枚币了。

Go all in. You're 1 coin away from everything.

零成本。他们刚刚点击了那个。截取了那个。对。已经病毒式传播了。

Zero cost. They've just clicked that. Clipped that. Yeah. It's gone viral.

但在座没人会把买房当作财富创造策略。不会。你们在此之前会做很多其他事。

But none no one at this table would adopt buying a house as a wealth creation strategy. No. You would all do many things before then.

是的。没错。

Yeah. Correct.

这几乎会排在待办事项列表的最末尾吧？

Would that be almost at the bottom of the list of things?

这取决于我们讨论的年龄段群体。如果你大概，嗯，38岁左右，嗯，有个孩子，基本还清了学生贷款，过得还行。这种安全感固然好，但它不是投资。

It's part of it's age cohort, who we're talking about. If you're kind of, like Mhmm. 38 years old Mhmm. You've got a kid, you kinda cleared up some of your student debt payments, you're okay. That security thing is fine, but it's not an investment.

年纪更小的，绝对不行。

Anybody younger, just no.

如果单纯从美元投资回报率来看，我可能会把它排在清单靠后的位置

Is there If you're just talking pure dollar investment returns, I probably would rank it lower on the list

确实如此。

for sure.

嗯。是否存在所谓的良性债务？因为我记得一开始你说要清理债务。那么是否存在良性债务呢？

Yeah. Is there any such thing as good debt? Because I remember at the start, you said clear up your debt. Is there is there a good debt?

有人通过债务赚大钱，但也有人因此亏得血本无归。

People make a lot of money on debt, but people lose a lot of money on debt.

我个人尽量完全避开债务。是的，我认为如果债务能为你所用，能通过杠杆让钱生钱，那确实存在良性债务。但要知道，杠杆伴随着巨大风险，很多人因此栽跟头。

I just try to stay away from debt altogether. Yeah. I mean, I think that yeah. There is such a thing as, like, good debt if it's working for you and you're able to to leverage that money to make more money. But a lot of people you know, with leverage gets comes a lot of risk.

我认识不少人就是因为背负所谓的良性债务而倾家荡产，对吧？

And I know a lot of people got wiped out because they took on quote unquote good debt. Right?

什么是杠杆？

What's leverage?

杠杆作用是这样的，比如在贾斯普雷特的例子中，你支付房屋价格的20%作为首付，剩下的80%通过抵押贷款获得。从技术上讲，这就是在利用杠杆，因为你用自己拥有的10万美元，现在却能负担价值50万美元的资产。如果你的房子从50万美元升值到100万美元，你就获得了50万美元的收益，而你实际只投入了10万美元。所以从技术上讲，你的利润或回报率要高得多。这种收益是通过你所承担的债务实现的杠杆效应。

Leverage is so for example, in Jaspreet's example, you put 20% down on a house, and you take an 80%, the rest of it, as a mortgage. That's technically leveraging your money because you're taking the 100 ks that you have, and now you're affording an asset that's worth $500,000 If your home goes from $500,000 to $1,000,000 you have a $500,000 gain, but you only put in a $100,000. So technically, your profit or your return percentage is much higher. It was leveraged by that debt that you carried.

嗯，我觉得大多数人并不知道他们可以对自己的加密货币使用杠杆。

Well, I don't think most people know that they can leverage their crypto.

没错。你可以用它作为抵押来借款。

That's right. You can borrow against it.

所以任何人都可以。你不需要去银行。

So anyone can. You don't need to go to a bank.

是的。你可以即时在所谓的去中心化金融中完成。或者有很多公司提供这类服务，允许你以资产为抵押借款。你甚至可以用数字艺术品作为抵押。我是个狂热的数字艺术品收藏家。

No. You could do it instantaneously in what's known as decentralized finance. Or there's there's a whole bunch of companies that do this, where you can borrow against your assets. You can even do it against digital art. I'm a huge digital art collector.

就像艺术品市场一样，你实际上可以根据艺术品的价值借款，可能能借到其价值的50%。

Much like the art market, you can actually go and borrow against the value of the art, maybe 50% against the value.

让我用超级简单的方式解释一下。假设我是一个从未买过比特币，但正考虑买一个，同时还想留点现金的人。

Let me explain this to me super simply. If I as if for someone that's, like, never even bought Bitcoin before and is thinking about potentially buying one, but they would also like some way to have a little bit of cash.

听着，我不喜欢这样。好吧，我理解原因，但问题是你持有的资产会这样——它波动性很大。

Look. I don't like it. Okay. I understand why, but the issue is you've got an asset that does this. It's volatile.

波动性非常大。而你用它抵押借款，却不知道它是否会跌破那个价值导致被清算，那样你就失去了所有比特币。关键在于，如果你处于长期牛市，千万别失去对代币的控制权。全程持有你的比特币，否则你可能会为了额外5%或10%的收益而搞砸这一切。

It's very volatile, And you're borrowing a certain amount against it. And you don't know whether it falls below that value and you get liquidated, then you've lost all of your Bitcoin. The whole game is if you're in a secular bull market, just don't lose control of your tokens. Own own your Bitcoin all the way through, and you have a risk of screwing that up for the extra 5% income or 10% income.

在

At

什么？在以太坊就完全不同了，因为你在质押。所以你会自然获得网络奖励。

what? In in Ethereum, very different world because you're staking. So you're getting naturally rewarded in the network.

质押是什么意思？

What does that mean, staking?

意思是，在比特币中，矿工通过解决算法计算获得奖励。而在以太坊、Solana、Sui等大型区块链中，你通过保护网络安全获得奖励。质押代币来保障网络安全，因为越多人参与网络连接，你就能获得报酬。目前以太坊的收益率大概是4%。

What it means is in in Bitcoin, you actually get miners basically get rewarded for solving the the algorithm, the computation. In Ethereum and Solana and Sui and the other big blockchains, you basically get rewarded for securing the network. So you stake your tokens to secure the network because the more people then have this network connectivity between them, and you get paid for that. So in Ethereum right now, it's probably 4% yield.

好的。我试着用十岁小孩能理解的方式来总结一下。

Okay. So just to I'll try and summarize this like a ten year old.

但这没有风险。你并没有在其中获得杠杆效应。

But there's no risk in that. You're not getting leverage in that.

所以如果我选择购买以太坊——这是一种加密货币，我可以把我价值10万美元的以太坊，在手机上点几下就能转移。我可以按一个按钮把它质押起来。质押后，我实际上是在用我的以太坊来保障网络安全，让整个系统更安全地运行。作为回报，他们每月会支付给我相当于4%的收益。

I so if I choose to buy Ethereum, which is a form of cryptocurrency, I can take my $100,000 of of Ethereum, and on my phone, in a couple of clicks, I can move it. I can press a button and move it so that it is staked. And when when it's staked, I am basically using my Ethereum to secure the network to make the whole thing more secure so it can run properly. And in return, they'll give me 4% of it as a payment every month.

不是每月4%，而是按月支付。按月支付。

Well, not 4% a month, but Monthly payments. Monthly payments.

年化4%的收益。对。所以你可以获得加密货币的利息。

Of 4% annualized. Yeah. So you can you can get interest on your crypto.

没错。本质上就是这样。如果你更老练些，想追求更高收益，还有收益率增强方案。就像我们讨论过高收益银行账户，加密货币领域也有高收益版本，最高能获得30%的收益。

Yes. Essentially. Then if you're a little more sophisticated, a little bit racier, there are then yield enhancements. So we talked about high yield bank accounts. There's high yield versions in crypto, and you can get up to 30%.

但这时候你就在承担风险了。

But now you're taking risks.

我还可以用我的以太坊进行抵押贷款。实际上我曾经这么做过，现在已经不这么做了。但我当时持有一千个以太坊，我把它——

And I can also loan against my Ethereum. So I actually did this at one point. I don't do it anymore. But I I had a thousand Ethereum, and I and I put it I

换成美元或者

took a dollars or a

一千个以太坊。是啊，天哪。对，我懂。

thousand Ethereum. Yeah. Fucking gosh. Yeah. I know.

其实我前段时间转投了比特币，大概几个月前吧，可能时机不对。这就是为什么梅兰妮当时那么忙。你该打电话问我的，我知道。妈的。但你也知道，人们总是情绪化的。

I actually I switched into Bitcoin a little while ago, so a couple of months back, but probably bad timing. This is why Melanie was busy. You should have called me I know. Fuck. But, you know, this people are emotional.

我当时用它做了抵押贷款，借了几百万美元去买其他加密货币资产。最让我惊讶的是，整个过程不需要打电话给任何人，不用联系银行，只需在手机上点几下按钮。我那一千个以太坊，立刻就换来了几百万美元现金直接到账。但我最终没这么做，因为市场波动太大了。

I had a loan against it, so I borrowed a couple of million dollars at at one point to buy some more other crypto assets against my Ethereum, and it was surprising to me that I didn't have to call anybody. I didn't have to ring a bank. I could just click a couple of simple buttons on my phone. And this a thousand Ethereum I had, I managed to get a couple of million dollars paid straight away in cash straight to me. But I chose not to do that because the markets are super volatile.

但这确实是极其高效的方式。比如说你持有价值10万美元的比特币——也就是一个比特币，你可以用它抵押借出2万美元

But but it is incredibly efficient, effective way of people if you were to let's say you had a $100,000 of Bitcoin, one Bitcoin, to borrow $20,000 against it

没错。

Yeah.

这风险并不大。

That's not very risky.

或者用5000美元对冲5000美元。

Or $5,000 against Or 5,000.

无论如何，这风险都很小。或者如果你持有其他可质押的货币，风险极低，几乎可以忽略不计。就像借钱给美国政府，或者说借钱给以太坊网络——以太坊的政府。这是相当不错的增值方式

Whatever it is, it's not very risky. Or if you're in a different currency where you can stake it, very little risk, very, very little risk. It's like lending to the US government, I. Lending to the to the government of Ethereum, the Ethereum network. That's a pretty decent way of of enhancing

股票很难做到这点。如果你持有5000美元股票，想用它们贷款很困难，对吧？确实。我年轻时好不容易攒了1万美元买了脸书股票，当时根本找不到简单的途径用这些股票贷款。直到后来我在欧洲有了私人投资银行，他们才问我要不要用蓝筹股抵押贷50%的额度。

It's hard to do that with stocks. It's hard to get a loan against your stocks if you have $5,000 of stocks, isn't it? Yeah. It's typical I mean, when I was when I was younger and I had I bought $10,000 of Facebook stock when I finally got some money, I couldn't think I couldn't see a simple way of taking a loan against my Facebook stock. It wasn't until later when I had a private investment bank in Europe that my private investment bank were like, do you want 50% of your blue chip stocks as a loan?

是的。这种服务通常只面向高净值客户。不过我想稍微质疑下质押收益——虽然4%近乎无风险，但以太坊价格波动本身始终存在风险，对吧？

Yeah. It's probably usually reserved for people with more assets. But I do wanna push back a little bit on the staking yield. I do understand it's 4% virtually risk free, but there are is are always gonna be risks with, you know, the price of Ethereum. Right?

因为你的收益是以太坊币支付的。所以这实际上是

So, like, you're getting paid In Ethereum. Ethereum. And so this is a

关键所在。明白吗？你的风险取决于你质押的币种

key thing. Right? Is your your risk is the is the currency you are staking

如果以太坊价格下跌50%，那么你质押的以太坊对应的法币价值——抱歉——可能会缩水。相比之下，如果你选择年化4%的高收益储蓄账户，它有联邦存款保险公司担保，几乎是...

in. So if Ethereum goes down 50%, then your fiat value of Ethereum, sorry, of your stake could go down versus, you know, if you're getting a 4% high yield savings account, it's backed by the FDIC. It's virtually this

零风险的。

free.

此外还存在另一个风险，以太坊实际上采用的是年度质押机制。哦，我明白了。大部分质押业务都集中在像Leidah这样的少数机构手中，它们正在转向短期质押。因此存在期限错配问题，这蕴含了一定风险。

And there is another risk as well as Ethereum is actually annual staking. Oh, I see. And most of it is being done via a few businesses like Leidah, which are turning into short term staking. And so there's a duration mismatch that has some elements of risk in.

你想

What do

要什么？

you want?

抱歉，您先说，

Sorry. Go ahead,

先生。好的。好的。

sir. Okay. Okay.

我正想问，你什么时候能拿到收益？以太坊质押是每月支付一次，还是按年结算？

I was gonna say, when do you get paid? The with the Ethereum stake, you get paid every month, or do you get paid on the year?

我是按月领取收益的。每月一次。好的。那养老金呢？退休金方面。

I was getting paid monthly. Monthly. Okay. What about pensions? Retirement.

退休金。在英国我们称之为养老金，我想你们那边叫401k。但在全球范围内，尤其在西方世界，这基本上是相同的概念。

Retirement. So in The UK, we call it a pension. I think you guys call it a four zero one k. But over across the world, it's pretty much the same. Across the Western world, anyway.

如果我25岁或30岁，是否应该开始缴纳养老金作为未来致富的途径？这是个明智的选择吗？

If I'm 25 or 30 or whatever, should I should I be paying into my pension as a way to generate to make myself wealthy someday? Is that a smart idea?

我没有401k账户，也没有个人退休账户。但人们青睐这类账户的原因是它们属于延税账户——无论我现在或将来缴税，投入的资金都能在那里增值，直到提取时才需纳税。不过存在几个问题。

I don't have a four zero one k. I don't have an IRA. But the reason why people like these accounts and why they can work for some people is because they are tax deferred accounts, meaning I can put my money in, whether I pay taxes now or later. The money will then sit there, grow, and I don't pay taxes until I pull my money out. But there's a couple problems.

首要问题是我对资金投向的控制权极小。虽然特朗普政府已签署关于401k投资范围的新行政令，但尚未落实。目前投资选项非常有限，主要是共同基金，且多数要收取管理费。

Problem number one is I have very little control over where my money can be invested. Maybe this will change. The Trump administration has passed a new executive order on four zero one k's to change which you could potentially invest in four zero one k's, but that hasn't happened yet. You have very limited options. They're primarily just mutual funds, and many of them have a fee.

据NerdWallet统计，92%的美国人不知道401k的费用明细。如果你不清楚自己的401k费率，现在就该去查清支出比率。投资选择本就有限，你还得永久支付费用——这意味着华尔街有人会持续收费直到你退休。其次，这笔钱在59岁前根本无法动用。

I think NerdWallet said 92% of Americans don't know what the four zero one ks fees are. So if you don't know what your four zero one ks fee is, this is your notice to go check what the expense ratio is, and you should know that. So you have very limited options. You're going to have to pay a fee, which means somebody on Wall Street is going to be paid forever until you retire. Number two, I can't touch this money until I'm 60 years old, 59.

如果这样做，我必须支付10%的罚金。第三点，整个讨论的核心是你们为了税收优惠才这么做。但就像我们之前谈到的，其实有很多税收优惠是401(k)计划之外的，这就是为什么我个人不喜欢它。不过这只是我的观点，对某些人来说它可能很棒，因为雇主可能会说‘我们会给你3%的匹配金’。

If I do, I have to pay a 10% penalty. And number three, the whole discussion is you're doing this for tax benefits. But kind of like we talked about earlier, there's a lot of tax benefits that you can get outside of a four zero one ks, which is why for me, I don't like it. But I'm not everybody. For some people, it can be a great place because your employer might say, We're going to give you a 3% match.

假设你向401(k)账户投入3000美元，公司100%匹配的话，他们可能也会往你的401(k)账户里额外存入3000美元。但与此同时，你也要承担相同的风险和顾虑。

So if you invest, let's just say, $3,000 into your four zero one and they match it 100%, they might also just throw $3,000 into your four zero one k, but you have the same risks and concerns along the way.

说实话，我觉得大多数人甚至不知道养老金是什么。我们虽然缴费，但根本不了解其运作机制。前几天在X平台上看到一场很有意思的辩论，有位英国人说‘我一辈子都在缴纳养老金，所以我理应享有它，等我需要时它肯定还在’。结果评论区所有人都在告诉他：这可不是随时能砸开的存钱罐。

I don't think most people even know what a pension is, to be honest. I think we pay into it, but we don't really know what's working. And I saw this really interesting debate take place on X the other day where someone was a guy was saying in The UK, I've paid into my pension my whole life Oh. So I deserve it, and it'll be there when I'm ready. And then everyone underneath it was telling him that, by the way, it's not like some piggy bank that you get to break open.

你工作时缴纳的养老金，其实是被用来支付当时需要领取养老金的人。

The money you paid into a pension was used to pay for the people that needed a pension when you were working.

你指的是美国的社保体系吧？在美国，雇员必须缴纳社保，也就是收入的6.2%。所以税负很重——既要缴纳所得税，还要交社保税。

So you're talking about Social Security in The United States. Because as an employee in The United States, you have to pay into Social Security. So 6.2% of your income. So you have a lot of taxes. You're going to have to pay income taxes on what you make, and then you have Social Security tax.

你的收入中有6.2%会单独划入社保基金（与所得税分开），同时雇主也要缴纳6.2%。理论上这笔钱会不断增值复利，等你退休后就能每年从这笔退休基金里领钱。

So on your income, you're going to pay 6.2% of that separately from your income tax, but 6.2% into this Social Security fund. And then your employer is also going to pay 6.2 into this fund. Yeah. This money, in theory, is supposed to grow and compound. That way, when you retire, you have this retirement fund that's going to pay you every single year.

你根本没有选择权。当然可以决定何时提取，但除此之外什么都做不了，完全由政府掌控。没错，这就是如今美国面临资金枯竭的社保体系。

You don't get to choose. I mean, you can choose when you pull it out, but you don't get to do anything with it. The government's going be in charge. Yeah. This is what is running out of money in The United States today.

为什么？因为如今二三十岁乃至四十多岁正在缴纳社保的人，他们支付的款项并非用于自己的退休金，而是用于支付当前退休人员的社保福利。

Why? Because people that are in their twenties, thirties, and forties that are paying into it today, it's not paying for their retirement. It's paying for the people who are retiring today to pay for their Social Security benefits.

这正是人们不理解的地方。他们以为自己是在往存钱罐里投钱，退休后就能打开罐子，靠这些钱度过余生。我研究过关于养老金的最大误解，首要误区就是人们认为退休后终身都能获得有保障的养老金。

And that's what people don't understand. They think they're paying into a piggy bank that they get to crack open, and that will pay for them as long as they live for the rest of their life. I was looking at the biggest misconceptions around pensions, and the first one was that my pension is guaranteed money for the entirety of my life once I retire.

某种程度上这没错。至少在美国，政府确实保证你会终身领取社保直至去世。但他们从不告诉你——也没有任何星号标注——的是支票的实际购买力。现实情况是：人们缴纳社保时以为这笔钱能支撑自己的退休生活。

Well, there there is some truth to that. The part in in The United States, at least, that you are guaranteed what what the what the wording is that you're gonna get the Social Security until you pass away. But the part that they never tell you, and there's no asterisk about this either, is how much the value of the check will be. So here's what's going on. People are paying into the Social Security Fund thinking that they're going to be able to fund their retirement.

历史上所有理财顾问都说退休保障如同三脚凳：401k计划是第一条腿，个人退休储蓄是第二条，社保是第三条。社保是强制缴纳的，除非你是投资者才能豁免——投资收入无需缴纳社保税。你要一直缴费到退休年龄才能开始领取。

Every financial advisor historically has said that retirement is a three legged stool. You have your four zero one ks, your personal retirement. You have your own personal savings, and then you have Social Security. Well, you pay into Social Security by force because you don't get to opt out of it unless you are an investor. You don't have to pay your Social Security income or Social Security taxes on your investment income, but you pay into this until you hit retirement age, and then you get to pull this money out.

现在政府的社保基金即将耗尽，但人们误解为政府将停止发放社保。其实他们会继续支付，只是通过印钞来兑现——就像你刚才说的。表面上看支票金额变大了...

Well, the government is running out of Social Security money, but people misconstrue that because they say, Oh, that means the government's no longer going to pay Social Security. That's not true. They'll still pay it, but they'll just print their way to pay it, which is what you've been talking about. So great. They're giving you a bigger check.

问题在于这张更大的支票买不到原来那么多东西。只要美国政府不违约，你确实能收到社保支票，只是它的实际购买力会远低于你的预期。

The problem with that bigger check is that bigger check can't buy you as much stuff. So yeah, based off what The United States Government says, assuming that they don't default, you're going to get the Social Security check. It's just not gonna be able to buy you as much as you thought before.

其他重大误解包括：认为雇主缴纳的金额足以支撑完整退休生活；把养老金等同于储蓄账户；以为随时可以支取；相信政府会在资金枯竭时兜底；觉得年轻时无需考虑养老问题；以及误认为养老金账户完全免税。

The other big misconceptions are that people think their employer is putting enough in to cover their full retirement. They think it's the same as a savings account. They think they can access it whenever they like. The government will cover them when it runs out, and I don't need to think about it until I'm older. And lastly, my pension pot is tax free.

大约二十年前发生的一个重大转变是从所谓的固定收益制转向了固定缴费制。以前在福特或美国航空公司等企业工作的人，退休后可以永久领取最后一年工资的60%。但由于人们寿命延长等因素，这些养老金计划纷纷面临破产。

So the big shift that happened around twenty years ago was a shift from what's known as defined benefit to divine contribution. So defined benefit used to work for Ford or American Airlines or whatever company. You retired. You got 60% of your final year's salary forever. That was bankrupting all of these pension plans because people were living longer, all the other stuff.

于是他们改革为固定缴费制。本质上就是你投入多少就能获得多少加上投资收益。但其中存在管理费，可能你选错了基金经理，或者当被问及'要投资债券还是股票'时——

And so they kind of changed it to define contribution. Basically, you get out what you put in plus the investment returns. But there's fees. Maybe you didn't give it to a good manager. Maybe you didn't know when they said, well, do you want to put it in bonds or equities?

如果你选了债券，增值幅度可能不理想。最终美国婴儿潮一代的平均退休储蓄，我记得大概是10万美元左右。

You're like, bonds, and it didn't grow as much, or whatever it was. And in the end, you're just not sure that you're the average $4.00 1 ks in The United States for a baby boomer, I believe, is about $100,000

具体年龄？婴儿潮一代现在65岁左右？目前应该是20万美元上下。

What age? A baby boomer, like 65? Yeah. I think it's right now around $200,000

哦，20万啊。但这...

Oh, 200 Okay. But it's

根本不够退休生活。

not enough to retire.

20万确实不够养老。这仅相当于每年2万用十年。美国养老金体系资金如此匮乏，这些人根本看不到希望。我们之前做的《退休危机》视频就详细解释过这个问题，当时引起了巨大反响。对于养老金领取者、婴儿潮一代乃至千禧世代而言，这个困局无解，所有人都必须做出改变来应对。

200,000 not enough to retire. That's ten years of $20 a year. So there's so little money in The US pension system particularly that there is no hope for these people. And this whole video on this called the retirement crisis became a huge viral success years ago, just to explain it. There is no way out of this for the pensioners, the boomers, all the millennials, and everyone's gonna have to change within this to to figure this stuff out.

我想你今天早些时候说过。你当时在谈论庞氏骗局。这里就有一个。但没人愿意承认，可大家都在不断投入资金维持这个体系运转，它之所以还能运行全靠人们持续注资。问题是流入的资金已经不够了。

I think you said it earlier today. You were talking about a Ponzi scheme. Here, you have one. But nobody wants to say that, but everyone is paying in to keep funding this thing, but the only way it's running is because people are paying it in. The problem is there's not enough money coming in.

因为因为记得吗记得吗我们最开始讨论过人口结构？年轻人越来越少了。

Because Because the remember the remember we talked at the beginning, the demographics? There's less and less young people.

年轻人越来越少是因为我们生育的孩子变少了。

There's less and less young people because we're having less babies.

但退休人口却极其庞大。这个循环会永远持续下去——因为我们还在生育，现在的婴儿就是二十年后的劳动力。我们可以据此推算未来，这个链条不会中断。

But there's tons of these retired people. So and this keeps going in perpetuity because we're having babies, so that's workers in twenty years' time. The babies now are workers in twenty years' time. We can forward project this. It doesn't stop.

那我们到底要怎么养活这么庞大的婴儿潮一代？仅美国就有7800万，是历史上同期规模最大的群体。我们根本负担不起。

So how the hell are we going to pay for this massive amount of baby boomers, which is in The United States, 78,000,000 of them, largest cohort in history at the time? We can't pay for them.

所以现在有人提议对比特币市值征税，或对资产价值征税，再或对投资收入征税。

And this is where the proposals are to tax your Bitcoin, the value of your Bitcoin, or tax the value of your assets, or tax your investment income.

但英国也面临同样困境。全球各国都面临相同的难题。所有人。

But The UK has got the same. This whole wealth everybody's got the same problem. Everybody.

汉弗莱，关于退休危机，你有什么看法？

What do think, Humphrey, in terms of retirement crisis?

我认为我对此有不同的见解。首先，我想杰斯佩里、廷罗，你们刚才在讨论社会保障对吧？是的。但我觉得我对退休问题整体上有不同的观点。

I think that so I have a different take on well, think, first of all, I think Jesperi, Tinro, you guys were talking and you were talking about Social Security, right? Yeah. But I have a different take on retirement altogether, I think.

嗯。

Yeah.

我认为401k计划对普通人来说是有益的，因为它是一种强制储蓄机制。很多人除非雇主提供，否则不会主动向退休账户存钱，对吧？所以整体匹配机制在行为金融学上是很好的设计。就像说，如果我这样做，就能从雇主那里得到些额外资金，至少我存了些钱而不是分文不剩。

I think 401s are good for the average person because it's a forced savings mechanism. A lot of people wouldn't contribute to a retirement account unless the employer offered it, right? And so whole match thing is a great thing for behavioral finance. It's like, Okay, if I do this, I get some free money for my employer, and at least I'm saving some money instead of nothing.

所以为那笔钱工作完全是免费的。

And so working for that money is absolutely free.

为不了解的人解释一下，401k是指你同意与雇主共同投资一个资金池。

A four zero one k for anyone that doesn't understand is you agreed to invest in a investment pot alongside your employer.

它更像是因受雇于企业而获得的个人退休账户。是的。你可以选择在401k账户内进行投资，这类账户通常享受税收递延，意味着你在晚年才需要为此缴税。

It is more like an individual retirement account that is awarded to you because you work for an employer. Yeah. You have the option to invest within a four zero one k, and that four zero one k is typically tax deferred, which means that you pay taxes on it later in life.

那这和社保有什么区别？

And what's the difference between that and a Social Security?

社保是一项政府项目，要求你从每笔薪水中缴纳一定比例进入这个大池子。当你退休后，政府会每月给你寄送社保支票。

A Social Security is a government program where you are required to pay into it every paycheck that goes into this big pot. And then when you do retire, the government will send you a Social Security check every month.

好的。

Okay.

但我仍然认为有很多方式可以实现退休，并且带着某种自由提前退休。你听说过Coastfire吗？

But I I still think that there are plenty of ways to retire and retire with some sort of freedom, retire early. Have you heard of Coastfire before?

没有。

No.

Coastfire是Reddit上流行的一种新概念，属于财务独立提前退休（FIRE）的变体。其核心是让你的储备金达到某个临界点后，之后无需再投入一分钱。假设达到某个合理数额后，只要投资标普500指数，其回报就足以让你在65岁正常退休时实现完全退休。这并非完全意义上的提前退休，而是达到所谓'海岸线数字'后，你在职业选择上会有更大自由度。比如不必再为厌恶的雇主工作，可以选择更符合生活方式的工作。

Coastfire is another newer thing that's, that's kind of on Reddit, but it's a variation of Financial Independence Retire Early. And it's essentially you get your nest egg to a point where you don't have to invest any dollar into it after that, but because you get it to, let's say, a certain number, and that number is usually pretty reasonable, the investment returns if you're invested in the S and P 500 will get you to a full retirement by the time you are able to retire at 65. So it doesn't mean you retire early completely, but it means that if you get to your coast fire number, which is what it's called, maybe you have more freedom of choice in what you're working on. So, like, maybe you don't have to work for the employer that you absolutely hate. You can maybe go do something that's a little bit more suited to your lifestyle.

你仍在工作，但不再是为退休储蓄而工作，因为你已达成海岸线数字。举例来说，35岁时这个数字大约是15万美元。如果在35岁前存够15万，以8%年化收益计算，30年后退休时将拥有150万美元。这对那些纠结'我到底能不能退休'的人来说更容易接受。虽然不是完全退休——不会在阿鲁巴沙滩上翘脚度假——但你仍会从事某些工作。我个人认为，如果完全退休无所事事，我可能会无聊到发疯，对吧？

You're still working, but you're not working to save for retirement anymore because you hit that coast fire number. So for example, at the age of 35, I think the coast fire number is like $150,000 If you can hit 150 ks by '35, if you have thirty years of investment returns at 8%, you'll have $1,500,000 by the time you retire, which is a little bit more palatable for people that are having a hard time wrapping their heads around, am I ever going to retire? They're not going to retire in that they're not going to be kicking up their feet on the sand beaches of Aruba, but you're still gonna be doing something. And I I personally think if I was retired, I'd be so bored out of my mind doing nothing. Right?

所以我想着手做点事情。这个想法就是，你不必非得做自己讨厌的工作或类似的事情。

So I'd like to work on something. The idea is you just don't have to work for maybe the job you hate or something like that.

那么如果我攒够15万美元存款的话，嗯。

So if I hit the $150,000 in savings Mhmm.

而我

And I

把它投入标普500指数，就能获得

put it into the S and P 500 and get the

8%的回报率。

8% return.

8%的回报率。到65岁时，我将拥有100多万。

8% return. By the age of 65, I'll have 1 point something million.

150.9万。没错。

1.509. Yeah.

但那又有什么价值呢？

But what's that worth then?

确实如此。就是这样。通货膨胀是等式的另一部分，它会如何影响实际价值？

That's true. There that's it. That is another part of the equation is with inflation, what is it gonna be worth?

这就是你正在尝试做的事吗？因为我记得一小时前你说过，你只是想提前退休之类的话。

And is this what you're trying to do? Because I remember an hour ago, you said, I'm just trying to retire earlier words to that effect.

是的。我的意思是，我希望达到'海岸财务自由'状态。这个概念可以根据个人定义，但我认为自己已经接近甚至达到了——能够从事热爱的工作，同时退休储备金会逐步增长，到60、65岁时就能轻松退休了。所以

Yeah. I mean, I'd like to be coastfire. And coastfire is, you know, however you would like to define it. But, you know, I already think I'm close, or if not, I've already reached it, which is like I get to work on the things that I love, and I I think that my retirement nest egg will eventually grow to a point where by the time I hit 60, 65, I'll be able to coast. So did

你具体计算过需要达到的数字目标吗？

did you create a number, do the math on what you'd need to get to?

当然。你可以预估未来年度开支，然后逆向推算出需要积累的金额。

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So you can project out your expenses of what you think your expenses are going to be on an annual basis, and then kind of work backwards to that number.

明白了。

Okay.

是啊，很多

Yeah. A lot

数学计算，但你差不多必须这么做。

of math involved, but you kinda have to do it.

想聊聊你的困境还是什么？行啊，说吧。退休危机，这确实令人担忧。

Do want to chat your pity or something? Yeah. Do it. Retirement crisis. That's concerning.

这确实令人担忧。所以你的策略是采用'海岸财务自由'方案？

That's concerning. So your approach is to do the coast fire thing?

我的策略是保持自律，坚持储蓄和投资，真正实现可能退休的目标。

My approach is let's stay disciplined, consistent with our savings and investing, and actually get to a place where retirement might be possible.

我觉得这个想法很棒。就像我开始实践'显化命运'时一样。当然，你会说，我需要这个目标，该怎么实现？

I mean, I I love that idea. And that's the same as when I started with the manifesting your your destiny. Sure. You say, well, I need this goal. How do I do it?

我们这样做，让投资增值。对吧？这做法很聪明。然后你就能承担更大风险了。没错。

We do this and grow up our investments. Right? It's it's brilliant to do that. And then you can take more risk. Sure.

如果你将其孤立来看，那么现在建造的任何胶囊舱，我都可以随心所欲。这与我对家的理念如出一辙。确切地说，就像我已经为生活去除了风险。现在我可以承担风险，这确实是件很棒的事。我欣赏你表达的方式——未来的我想要这样。

If you isolate that and say, well, any capsule I build now, I can do whatever I want. That was the same idea that I had with the home. It's exact it's like, I've derisked my life. Now I can take risk, and that's a really nice thing to do. And I love the way that you do it by saying, well, my future self wants this.

嗯。为了实现这一点，我现在需要这样做。嗯。然后它应该能解决那个问题。当然，你的设想中总存在风险，但

Mhmm. For me to do that, I need to do this now. Mhmm. And then it should take care of that. Now there's always risk in your imagine, but

然后你就有额外的钱可以做任何想做的事。对吧？不过

And then you have extra dollars to do whatever you want with. Right? So But

我也很欣赏你一直自律地坚持自己的喜好和认知。是的。对此我很感激。谢谢。因为你提到90%资金都投入了指基和ETF。

I also love that you've been disciplined on, like, what you like and what you know. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you. Because you said I think 90% are in index funds and ETFs.

这正是我会推荐给别人的配置。哦抱歉。好吧。就我个人而言，我大约60%是指数基金。

That's what I would recommend for people. Oh, sorry. Okay. For me personally, I'm like 60% index funds.

即便如此，这个比例已经相当高了，而且没有那种——你知道的——追逐新奇事物的综合征或随便你怎么称呼它。我是说，那种

But still, that's that's pretty high and and not having that, you know, shiny object syndrome or whatever you wanna call it. I mean, that that

这简直是在指控我有喜新厌旧的毛病。我

that's I'm accusing me of having shiny objects. I was

只是想让大家都能参与进来。是的，是的。但无论是什么，保持自律都很重要。我认为这是一种非常宝贵的品质。

just trying to engage everybody here. Yeah. Yeah. But but whatever it might be to to to be disciplined. I I think that's such a valuable trait.

而且，你提到了稀缺心态。我认为这也是一种自律的心态。所以我会重新表述这一点。我觉得你做得非常出色。

And, you know, you talked about the scarcity mindset. I think that's also a disciplined mindset that you have that So I I would I would reframe that. I think you've done an excellent job.

我认为个人理财是个人的事。

Think personal finance is personal.

好了，各位。我想我找到史蒂夫了。嘉宾已经到了。准备好了吗？

Alright, guys. I think I got Steve. The guest is here. Ready?

进来吧。

Come in.

天啊，史蒂夫。你在干什么？

Oh my god, Steve. What are you doing?

这是Boncharge面膜。对瑕疵、皱纹有好处，还能清洁皮肤。它是红光面膜。你以前没用过吗？没有。

This is the Boncharge face mask. It's good for blemishes, wrinkles, clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before? No.

从未尝试过这个。它真的非常非常好。它会在你脸上照射红光，有助于增加和促进胶原蛋白的生成。其实是因为我太太才发现的。看到她戴着它，连续几个晚上都把我吓坏了。

Never tried this before. It's it's really, really good. It shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. Actually found it out because of the missus. Seeing her wearing it, she terrified me a couple of nights in a row.

我原以为它是用来吓人的，但实际上，它对皮肤真的非常非常好。所以他们是这个播客的赞助商，我已经每天使用它大约一年半了。

I thought it was to scare people with, but actually, it's really, really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast, and I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.

哇。你要去。哇，史蒂夫。

Wow. You're going. Wow, Steve.

我过得很好。

I'm going great.

是的。而且，Boncharge全球发货，退货方便，所有产品享有一年保修。所以访问boncharge.com/diary，全场商品可享25%折扣。但你必须通过那个链接下单。就是boncharge.com/diary，使用代码diary。

Yes. And, Boncharge ships worldwide with easy returns and a year long warranty on all of their products. So visit boncharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product site wide. But you have to order through that link. That's boncharge.com/diary with code diary.

确保你把我接下来要说的话保密。我邀请你们中的1万人更深入地进入CEO日记。欢迎来到我的核心圈子。这是我向世界推出的一个全新的私人社区。我们有很多令人难以置信的事情发生，但你们从未看到过。

Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown.

我们有录制对话时我iPad上的简报。我们有从未发布的片段。我们有与嘉宾的幕后对话，还有我们从未发布过的剧集，以及更多内容。在这个圈子里，你将直接与我接触。你可以告诉我们你希望这个节目是什么样子，希望我们采访谁，以及你希望我们进行什么样的对话。

We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In this circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have.

但请记住，目前我们仅限前10,000名在关闭前加入的成员。所以如果你想加入我们的私人封闭社区，请点击下方描述中的链接或访问d0accircle.com。我会在那里与你交流。关于纪律这一点，汉弗莱，我看过你的几个视频，你谈到了你停止花钱的事项。有种说法是，为了致富、储蓄或实现财务目标，你不该喝星巴克咖啡。

But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you wanna join our private close community, head to the link in the description below or go to d0accircle.com. I will speak to you there. On that point of discipline, Humphrey, I have seen a couple of videos from you where you talk about the things that you stopped spending money on. And there is a narrative that says, you know, in order to get rich or to save or to get to where you wanna go with your financial goals, you should not have the Starbucks coffee.

确实。你不该做这些事。你停止在哪些方面消费？你的判断框架是什么？

Sure. You should not do these things. What what did you stop spending money on, and what's your framework there?

我回顾了2014年以来的开支，观察消费习惯的变化。首先停掉的是爱彼迎住宿。过去它性价比高且体验独特，但如今都已商业化。加上清洁费等附加费用，最终花费更多却不如酒店便利。

So I looked at I took a look into my expenses from 2014 and onward and just kinda, like, saw the differences in how my spending habits have changed. The first thing I stopped spending money on are Airbnbs. So Airbnbs used to be a great value. They used to be a unique experience, but these days, they're all kind of commercialized. And I feel like with the cleaning fees and all these fees, you end up paying more for less convenience as a hotel.

这是第一项。第二是停止批量购买食品。虽然听起来随意，但我是单身汉。有时买两加仑牛奶根本喝不完，对吧？

So that's number one. I stopped buying food in bulk. I know that sounds kind of random, but I'm a single guy. Sometimes I I get two gallons of milk, I can't finish it. Right?

结果只能倒掉牛奶。或者从好市多一次买48个鸡蛋——老天，我虽然健身但也无法两周内吃完这么多。明白吗？这是另一项改变。还有...

So I'm pouring milk down the drain. Or I'm buying 48 eggs at a time from Costco, and I'm just like, dude, like, I I I mean, I like the gym, but I can't eat 48 eggs in, two weeks or whatever that that time is. Right? So that's that's another. And then another

我做的另一件事是

thing I did was

我开始更换车险，因为搬到了旧金山市内。现在年驾驶里程从15,000英里降到3,000英里。仅通过致电车险公司，每月就省下约40美元，只因驾驶需求大幅减少。

I started to switch my car insurance because I moved into San Francisco, the city. I'm driving less. So I used to drive 15,000 miles a year. I drive 3,000 miles a year now. And just by calling my car insurance, I was able to save, like, $40 a month just because my driving requirements are much lower.

所以那些就像是解释一下。对。你知道，汽车保险费率取决于你开车的多少。如果你开车少了，搬到了城市里，那么你的费率应该会下降。但我认为有些人对他们的保险公司有点过于忠诚了。

So those are like Explain that. Yeah. So, you know, a car insurance rates are dependent on how much you drive. And if you drive less and you move to a city, then your rates should come down. But I think some people are a little bit too loyal to their providers.

他们不愿意比较费率，因为这很麻烦。你并不真的想做这件事。它需要时间。但我认为这样做，花一个小时给你的保险公司打电话，看看不同的保险公司，不仅仅是汽车保险，还有房屋保险，你可以省下很多钱。因为保险某种程度上是商品化的。

They're not willing to compare rates because it's painful. You don't really want to do it. It takes time. But I think doing that, spending an hour calling your insurance provider, looking at different insurance providers, not just for cars, but for homes, too, you can save a lot of money. Because insurance is kind of commoditized.

所以就像是，你可以从很多不同的保险公司那里获得保障。你不妨让他们为你的业务展开一场竞价战。

So it's like, you're gonna get coverage from many different providers. You might as well put them kind of in a bidding war for your business.

我曾经卖过汽车保险。所以，你知道，我曾经

I used to work selling car insurance. So, you know, I used

那是我

to it was one

的电话销售工作之一。

of my telesales jobs.

我也做过那个。

I've done that as well.

是的。那件事当时很有趣。我觉得人们不知道这个。但当我坐在汽车保险呼叫中心时，屏幕上有一个可以左右滑动的条，我能根据销售情况给你折扣。如果我觉得要失去你这单生意，只需把条向左滑，就能降低你的首付和月付。

Yeah. And that that was interesting there. I don't think people know this. But as I sat there in the the car insurance call center, there's this bar on the screen that I can move in either direction to basically give you a discount based on how the sale is going. So if I really think I'm gonna lose your sale, all I do is slide the bar to the left, and it brings your your upfront payment down and your monthly payment down.

嗯。但如果我觉得这单很容易成交，我就能把报价条往上推，给你提供更详细的保险和其他附加服务。我觉得人们没意识到所有保险都是可以协商的，甚至包括手机保险这些。有时候直到你说要退订，他们才会突然给你五折优惠。

Mhmm. But if I thought the sale was easy, I could bring the bar up in terms of the price I quote you and give you breakdown insurance and all these other upsells. And so I don't think people realize how negotiable all of their insurances are, even their their phone insurance and all these other things. And sometimes you don't figure out until you you take you say you're gonna quit, and then suddenly they give you some great offer where they're gonna give you 50% off.

对。我从来不按成本销售，而是按收入销售。明白吧。

Yep. Yeah. And the other way of approaching it is I never really sold for costs. I sold for income. Okay.

这意思是说，只要你不做得太过分，你的生活方式...对吧？比如我真要放弃去餐厅或点外卖吗？

And that is saying that is saying, okay. Your lifestyle as long as you're not being ridiculous. Right? It's like, do I really want to not go to a go to a restaurant or get that Uber Eats or whatever?

明白。

Understand.

是啊。因为那是在惩罚自己。总这样做并不好。需要很强的自律性，而自律很难。

Yeah. Because that's penalizing yourself. And that's not a nice thing to do always. Right? It takes a lot of discipline, and discipline is hard.

但如果你在增加收入方面付出同等自律，实际上能让生活更好。现在我们都身兼数职——我做三四份工作，你也是。我们都有不同的收入来源。

But if you've got an equal an opposite amount of discipline in solving for income, you actually move your lifestyle further ahead. The rise of I I do three, four jobs. You do three, four We all do lots of different things now. You do as well. We've all got different income streams.

与其纠结成本基础，不如把精力花在思考如何增加收入来源上。某种程度上确实如此。我们同意，就像史蒂文的朋友给他发信息说的那样，他急需挽救成本基础。但总的来说，如果你在制定人生规划，通过解决收入问题会比削减成本更快实现所谓的‘海岸财务自由’（或任何类似的称呼）。

You're almost better off to spend your energy thinking about how do I increase my income stream than your cost basis. At a certain Yeah. We agree, like Steven's friend who sent him the message, he needs to desperately rescue his cost base. But generally, if you're looking at a life plan, you'll get to your coast fire or whatever it's called quicker by solving for income than you will for cost.

我只是认为削减开支是更容易实现的目标，毕竟每个人都能稍微缩减开支，但不可能人人都说‘我明天收入就能翻倍’。那是个更棘手的问题。而且我觉得如果你想...

I just think lower hanging fruit is solving for expenses, which is like everyone can cut back a little bit, but everyone can't just like say, I'm gonna make two x more tomorrow. That's kind of a harder problem. And I think if you want

其实你只需要权衡时间成本。我是说，如果你从事低收入工作，确实可以开优步赚外快，或者批量接单...

Well, you just trade off your time. Because you I mean, you can. If you're in a lower earning job Mhmm. You can drive an Uber and earn extra money, or you can do a bulk

明白你的意思了。

what you're saying.

没错。如今世界运转的方式就是多元化收入流，因为生活成本已经变得如此高昂...

Yeah. It's like multiple revenue streams is now the way the world works because the cost of living has become so expensive

嗯。

Mhmm.

以至于每个人都不得不打多份工。但借助科技手段，我们实际上能更轻松地实现这一点。

That everyone's having to do multiple jobs. But with technology, we can actually do it much easier.

我也赞同Tumphrey的观点，不过，今天你只需带份便当或许就能获得30%的加薪，或者

I Tumphrey's point as well, though, you can get a 30% pay rise today just by maybe bringing a packed lunch or

当然。

Sure.

步行去某处或做其他类似的事，而要争取30%的加薪可能更难。

Walking somewhere or whatever else, and it's probably harder to get a 30% pay rise.

我确信关于

I'm sure about the

天。我认为这取决于你处于人生的哪个阶段。就拿午餐的例子来说，现在如果你坚持带午餐，打包午餐需要时间。根据你时间的价值，那一小时可能值20美元，也可能是2000美元。

day. Think it depends on which stage of life you're in. Because now if you just stick with the lunch if you're on the lunch example, packing lunch costs time. And depending on how much your time is worth, that one hour of time could be $20. It could be $2,000.

我认为这是关键的区别。而且我完全同意在某些时候和地方必须削减开支。但在某个阶段，你看，我在很多方面仍然很节俭，但在时间上，我们的办公室位于底特律市中心，我通勤需要45分钟，但我并不自己开车。

And I think that's the the key difference. And and I think there's definitely times and places you gotta cut. I fully agree with you on that. But I think at a certain stage look. I'm I am still cheap with my money in multiple places, but I have when it comes to time so our office is in Downtown Detroit, and my commute there is forty five minutes, but I don't drive.

我的做法是让别人开车送我。这样做的原因是我可以坐在后座工作。我们每天发布财经新闻，有时市场简报中会有重要的事情发生。如果我自己开车，我不想一边开车一边发短信。

What I do is I get driven there. And the reason why I do that is because I can sit in the back seat and work. And one of the things that we publish daily financial news. So sometimes something really happening in the with our market briefs where, oh, is important. And if I'm driving, I don't wanna be texting and driving.

所以，我选择支付优步或其他服务的费用，每天花四十五分钟去，四十五分钟回，钱从账户里不断流出。但我换回了一个半小时的时间，这远比支付给司机的费用更有价值。我认为这取决于你的人生阶段——如果是在更早之前，我绝不会这么做。

So instead, I pay for an Uber or whatever, and I go that forty five minutes there, forty five minutes back, and it's money out of my account every single day. But I get back an hour and a half of my time, which is worth way more than whatever I'm paying in my driver fees. So I I think it depends on where you are in this stage of life because I wouldn't do that if this was way before.

最大的问题——这是个开放性问题。你们认为普通人最常犯的金钱错误是什么？

What is the biggest this is an open question to everybody. What do you think the biggest money mistake the average person makes is?

他们花光了所有的钱。两个'S'陷阱：要么挥霍一空，如果跨过这个阶段，又会把全部积蓄死存起来。

They spend all their money. The the two s's. You you're spending all of your money, and if you get past that, then you're saving all of your money.

这两种都是错误？

Both of them are mistakes?

这两种都是错误。

Both of them are mistakes.

也就是说，让钱闲置在银行账户里毫无作为。

So just having your money sat in a bank account doing nothing.

你的财富每天都在缩水。

You're becoming poorer every single day.

我认为大多数人并不了解这一点。我有个朋友，他的银行存款多年来一直在稳步增长。我记得问他，你现在银行账户里有多少钱？他采取了一种非常缓慢的积累方式。他是一名自由职业者，经营着自己的生意。

I don't think most people know this. I've got a friend who's steadily compounded his his bank balance over time. And I remember asking him, so how much money do you now have in your bank account? He's taken a really slow approach over time. He runs a business as a freelancer.

他说，大概有一百万美元吧。我当时很惊讶，这些钱就只是放在你的银行账户里？他回答说是的。因为他害怕，不知道该怎么处理这笔钱，所以觉得存在银行是最安全的选择。

And he goes, I think probably about a million dollars. I was like, it's just sat in your bank account. And he was like, yeah. And because he's scared. Like, he's scared he doesn't know what to do with it, so he thinks just putting it in the bank account is the safest possible thing to do.

但这实际上是一种必然的损失。如今美国普通银行账户的平均利率（不是高收益账户）只有0.1%到0.5%，低得可怜。假设通胀率是3%（这还是官方数据，不是人们实际感受到的通胀），意味着你的购买力每年净损失约2.5%。如果账户里有一百万美元，相当于每年损失2.5万美元的购买力。

Well, it's a guaranteed loss. If your bank account the average bank account in The United States today, not the high yield accounts, but the average account is paying 0.1%, 0.5%, don't know, something super low. If we just say inflation is 3%, meaning the cost you have to spend out of the bank account to buy something is going up by 3%, and that's the reported numbers, not the real inflation that many people feel, well, that means there's a net loss of two and a half percent on that. So if I have a million dollars there, that's $25,000 of lost buying power.

Ro，考虑到我的听众很多是企业主——无论是个人工作室还是大公司——你认为他们是否应该把闲置资金投入比特币？

Ro, do you think companies because a lot of my audience are companies, whether they're, you know, one person companies or big companies. Do think they should be putting their money that they have sat in their account into Bitcoin?

本质上说，以微软为例，他们持有巨额现金。微软用现金做什么？主要是现金类投资，偶尔收购其他公司、建设数据中心等不动产，或者回购自家股票。这三种行为都源于货币贬值，而且这些资产每年都在变得更贵。

In essence, if you're Microsoft, they have huge cash piles. What does Microsoft buy with their cash? Really, they buy some investment stuff, but it's generally cash based. And then they may buy another company, or they may buy real estate data centers, let's say or they may buy their own shares back. All of those three things that they buy are driven by the debasement of currency, and they get more expensive every year.

而他们持有的现金回报率只有3.5%，这种做法其实很愚蠢。因为股东的资金并没有用于购买能真正提升公司价值的等价资产。

And they're holding a cash return of 3.5%. So it's stupid what they're doing. Because actually, all your shareholder cash is not buying the equivalent of the actual things that drive the value of the company.

那小型企业呢？如果现在有听众的公司账户里存着一两百万美元，而且并非全部需要用于现金流周转，这种情况该怎么处理？

So about small companies? What if there's people listening now that have companies where they've got a million, 2,000,000 in the in the bank? They probably don't need it all for cash flow reasons.

因此我认为，回到你最初的问题，投资与储蓄的关系常被误解。我认为投资更为重要。年轻时我曾犯过错误，因为恐惧心理让我极度规避风险，成为了一个储蓄者。虽然我从事投行工作，但实际上并未真正投资——我只是通过行业收入积累现金。

And so I do think that investing versus saving is misunderstood, to go back to your original question. I think investing is much more important. I made the mistake of being a saver when I was young because the the fear that you know, all of that stuff meant I was super risk averse. And I was an investment banker. I was investing, but I didn't so I made money from being in that industry, so I'm just going to hoard cash.

这种做法反而让我损失更大。直到目睹银行体系崩溃后，我决定不再这样——我要掌控自己的财务。企业经营也是同理：若产生现金流，就不该囤积大量现金，保持适度流动性投资才更有利。

I did worse for doing that. And then once we saw the banking system fail, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to take control of my own finances. So the same is true of a business. If they're generating cash, they shouldn't be sitting on a massively large amount of cash, but some liquid investments, I think, massively help.

因为这能让现金为你和股东增值，这很重要。但绝不能放弃流动性——当你急需资金却无现金可用时，特别是对已积累的财富而言，那将是世上最糟糕的情况。

Because you're going to make your cash grow for you and your shareholders. And that's important. But but don't let go of your liquidity because when you really need it and you don't have cash, that's the worst thing in the world, particularly when you've saved the money.

那么你们RealVision的企业账户里...

So in your business bank account for Real Vision

是的。

Yeah.

你们会把部分资金配置加密货币吗？这取决于很多...

Do you put some of the the money into crypto? It depends. A lot of

资金主要用于公司增长性再投资。关键决策在于：资本如何增值？是通过业务再投资提升股价？还是利用储蓄池进行多元化投资？

it gets reinvested for growth within the company. Okay. So you're making the decision as does how's your capital gonna grow? Is it gonna grow grow your share price via reinvesting in the business? Or is it better to use the savings pool and buy other investments and diversify away?

这实际上取决于你的业务类型及其在增长周期中所处的阶段。但如果你是一家现金流稳定、常规的非增长型企业，那么你将持续产生现金。你可能已经提取了部分开发分红，在账面上购置了房产，完成了所有那些操作。确实，没有理由不采取一些相对保守的投资策略。

That really depends on your business, where it is in the growth cycle. But if you're like a cash generating, regular, non growth style business, then you're gonna be generating cash. You might have taken some dev dividends out and book bought a house and done all that thing. Yeah. There's no reason not to do some relatively conservative investment strategy.

汉弗莱，你曾为许多富人提供咨询建议。在金钱方面，富人们掌握哪些普通人所不了解的奥秘？因为当你窥见幕后真相时，会发现金钱游戏的潜规则。他们在资金运作上有哪些普通人既不知晓也无法复制的操作？

Humphrey, you worked with lots of rich people advising them. What is it that rich people know that the average person doesn't know as it relates to money? Because there are money games that you discover when you get to see behind the curtain. What is it that they're doing with their money that the average person isn't aware of or isn't able to do with their money?

富人通常更具纪律性。他们往往每天都会查看银行账户，明白吗？他们坚持做着那些经过十年二十年积累会产生巨大效果的小事。而且他们的思考维度是数十年计，而非仅仅关注本周要做什么。

Rich people are typically more disciplined. They're they're typically checking their bank account every day. Right? They're they're doing little things that compound into huge results at the end of ten or twenty years. And they're they're thinking in decades, not just what am I going to do this week.

对吧？他们现在就在为十年二十年后的自己做投资选择，而不是选择在当晚的足球比赛上押注一千英镑。因为他们深知今天运作的一千英镑，在十年二十年后将增值至一万甚至两万英镑。这本质上是一种长期思维与短期思维的差异。

Right? They're they're choosing investment choices for themselves in ten years, twenty years from now, instead of choosing sports betting on on the football match for a thousand pounds, you know, that night. Because they know that their thousand pounds working for them today will be worth, you know, 10,000, 20,000 in ten or twenty years. So it's more just like a long term mindset versus a short term mindset.

就像延迟满足。

Like delaying gratification.

延迟满足。正是如此。

Delaying gratification. Yes.

你刚才在记录什么？

What were you writing down there?

我当时正在记录这个系统是如何偏袒富人的，这非常不可思议，因为正如查理·芒格所说，给我看看激励机制，我就能告诉你结果。人们获得的不是10万美元，而是那些银行账户里有1000万的人。他们能获得所谓的无追索权贷款，这太神奇了，因为与你的朋友不同，他们不必偿还。所以无追索权贷款意味着你最终对这笔贷款不承担法律责任。

I was writing down how the system is rigged in the favor of rich people is it's extraordinary because it's the it's the Charlie Munger quote of show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome. What people get once you get it's not the 100,000, but it's like the people who've got 10,000,000 in their bank account. They get loans that are called nonrecourse loans. It's an extraordinary thing because unlike your friend, they don't have to pay it back. So a non recourse loan means you're not legally liable for the loan in the end.

当然，会有一些关于如何操作的条款。但他们为什么要这么做？为什么他们能得到这些优惠条件？为什么他们能在股票上市前获得私募配售？为什么他们总能得到最好的机会？

Now, there'll be some provisions on how to do it. But why are they doing this? Why are they getting these favorable terms? Why are they getting the private placements in stocks before they go public? Why are they getting all the best offers?

因为他们支付费用。因为他们向投资银行支付费用，而投资银行极度渴望这些人，因为他们有大量的金融活动。所以他们激励这些人。我们普通人根本接触不到这些。这和我一开始提到的对冲基金行业的情况如出一辙。

Because they pay fees. Because they pay fees to the investment banks, and the investment banks desperately want these people because they have a lot of financial activity. And so they incentivize them. None of us get a look in at all of that. It's the same thing that I talked about with the hedge fund industry in the beginning.

就像他们被某个阶段激励，获取比其他人更好的信息。我认为其中一部分原因在于，我们试图告诉人们的是：你不必玩同样的游戏。你不必支付任何人的费用。你买一个比特币，放在你的Coinbase账户里或其他地方。运行它不需要任何成本，而你的表现却能超过风险资本投资者。

It's like they were incentivized by a phase to get information that was better than everybody else. And I think part of that is the ability that all we're trying to say to people is you don't have to play the same game. You don't have to pay anybody's fees. You buy a Bitcoin, stick it in your Coinbase thing or whatever. It costs you nothing to run, and you're outperforming a venture capital investor.

还有一些简单的方法，比如购买指数基金。你不必为主动管理向华尔街支付数千美元。有办法破解这个系统，而且成本并不高。

There's simple things like buying an index fund. You're not paying the Wall Street complex thousands of dollars for active management. There's ways of hacking this, and it's not that expensive to do.

在我们转向Jaspreet之前，我认为你们俩都稍微提到了一点，你之前也说过，关系如何创造财富。因为我当时在那个公寓里观察这位亿万富翁时，看到的是他的朋友和过去与他有业务往来的联系人，他们获得了在这家公司上市前投资的优先分配权，这意味着第二天这些投资就会翻倍。但这些都是基于关系。所以，如果说有一种积累财富的策略，就像拉尔夫一开始说的，与人交往并建立良好的关系，我认为这一点真的非常、非常被低估了。我有个朋友，可以提他的名字，叫Harry Stubbings。

Just before we move to Jaspreet, one of the things that I think you kind of both alluded to a little bit and you said earlier on was about how relationships make money. And because what I was watching when I sat in that apartment with this billionaire is his friends and his contacts who had done business with him in the past were getting the allocation, the prime allocation of being able to invest just before this company went public, which means that the next day it would multiply. But those were relationships. So if if there is a strategy to to build wealth, it goes back to what Ralph said at the start, being around people and having good relationships is actually, I think, really, really unappreciated. I've got a friend, I can name my friend, called Harry Stubbings.

他运营一个名为20 VC的播客。在那个播客上，他与极其富有的人对话。Harry的播客没有乔·罗根的那么大。但因为Harry与地球上最富有的人进行了两小时的对话，并且持续这样做，他在欧洲建立了最大的投资基金之一，尤其是作为一个二十多岁的年轻人。我想，如果我没记错的话，他已经从这些关系中筹集了7.5亿美元。

He runs a podcast called 20 VC. And on that podcast, he sits with extremely rich people. The podcast Harry's podcast isn't as big as Joe Rogan's. But because Harry has had two hour conversations with the richest people on planet Earth and continues to do so, He's built one of the biggest investment funds in Europe, especially as, like, a guy in his twenties. I mean, I think he's raised, if I'm not mistaken, 750,000,000 just from the relationships.

他对我说，你知道吗，过去五到十年里我创造的最大价值杠杆并不是浏览量。有人比他拥有更多浏览量。关键在于他认识所有有钱人。我觉得我们在思考财富创造时低估了这一点，因为如果你能做到雷尔所说的那样，接近富人，以某种方式帮助他们，建立这些关系，它会持续带来回报，永远如此，不是吗？

And he said to me, he said, you know, the biggest value leverage I've built in the last five, ten years isn't like the views. People have more views than him. It's he he knows everyone rich. And and I think we underestimate that when we think about wealth creation because if you can do what Rael said and get around rich people Yeah. Help them in some way, build those relationships, it pays dividends, what, forever?

有个叫迪维什·马坎的厉害人物，他在旧金山经营一家名为Iconic的投资公司。他和我差不多同期进入高盛当年轻投行家，但他二月份被招进了互联网银行团队。结果他刚入职一个月，整个部门就解散了，所有人都被解雇了。

There's a there's a great guy called Divesh Makan who runs a firm, an investment firm in in San Francisco called Iconic. He was a young investment banker at Goldman around the same time when I started there as well. But he was he was hired into the Internet banking team at in February. He turned up the office, but a month later, the entire thing was gone. Everybody was fired.

而他太年轻了，资历浅到公司懒得解雇他——他们把资深银行家全裁了。他当时想：我该怎么办？我记得他连直属上司都没剩下。

And he was too young. He was kind of too junior to bother to fire. They fired all the senior bankers. And he thought, well, what do I do? I think he had no bosses left.

于是他干脆跑去硅谷，整天泡在咖啡馆里交朋友。他恰好结交的那些人包括马克·扎克伯格、里德·黑斯廷斯、里德·霍夫曼等等。后来他成为这些人在高盛的财富顾问，又把业务全转到摩根士丹利，最终创立了自己的Iconic公司。如今Iconic规模庞大，管理着这些硅谷大佬的全部财富——这一切都源于当年在无人问津时（因为互联网泡沫破灭）结识了这群创业的毛头小子，他整个人生就靠这个社交网络崛起的。

So he just basically went to Silicon Valley and hung out in coffee shops and made friends. The people he happened to make friends with were Mark Zuckerberg, Reed Hastings, Reed Hoffman, all these people. But he then became their wealth adviser at Goldman, moved it all to Morgan Stanley, then built his own firm Iconic. And Iconic is massive. It runs all the wealth for these Silicon Valley people from this network of meeting these random dudes building businesses when nobody else wanted to speak to them because, you know, they'd gone through the big bust, and he made his entire life on that network.

天才啊。很可能就是在那家咖啡馆——

Genius. Probably at that cafe where

我把比特币全赔光了。

I spent all my Bitcoin.

这个 这个

The the

那扇金色门的。

one with the gold door.

你当时也在场。你在比特币上栽了跟头。有趣的是，当我们谈论金钱系统和所有这些时，却没人提及管理人际关系的系统。大多数人维系关系的方式就是留个电话号码，嗯哼，然后期待再次相遇。

You were there at the same time. Sending was your bum on Bitcoin. It's interesting because when we talk about systems and all these things for money, nobody ever talks about a system for managing your relationships. And the way that most of us manage our relationships is we get someone's number Mhmm. And we hope that will cross paths again.

但我在思考这个问题——显然你做这档播客让我结识了很多优秀的人。我本该有套更完善的体系来梳理这些关系：如何为这些人提供帮助，记住他们的生日等细节。这不仅有益于我的心理健康（更多朋友意味着更低概率的孤独等问题），从商业角度看，未来六年里当我需要你的建议时，这些关系就会成为机会。

But I think I even think I'm thinking about it. You obviously do this podcast where I meet so many great people. I should have a much better system for understanding those relationships, how I can be of service to those people, understanding their birthdays, and all these other kinds of things. And not only would that be good for my mental health and more friends, less likely, all these kinds of sort of social psychological things, but in business terms, there's gonna be opportunities whether it's six years from now where I need your advice.

太棒了。

That's great.

人际网络的关键在于你投入什么，而非索取什么。

The the key to networks is it's what you put into the network, not what you take out.

没错。所以那些拥有

Yeah. So the people who have the

我见过最优质人脉的人，总会主动问'我能帮你什么？'，比如'嘿，我有东西给你'或'你该认识某某'。

best networks I've ever seen are always the people who say, how can I help you? Yeah. Hey. I've got something for you. You should meet so and so.

哦，对。对。连接器。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Connectors.

从来不会是，嘿，听着。你能为我做什么？是的。这总会回报的。

It's never, hey. Listen. What can you do for me? Yeah. That comes back.

因果总是循环的。尽可能多地为网络付出，网络也会回馈给你。

Karma flows back always. Give as much into the network as possible, and the network gives back.

我想这就是哈里所做的。有趣的是，大约一个月前，我说，哦，我有这个想法要做这件事。然后哈里在WhatsApp上三十秒内回复我说，哦，我知道，插入这位欧洲投资界顶尖人士的名字。我会把你和他拉进一个WhatsApp群组。把我拉进和这家伙的群组，发了个语音说史蒂夫是最棒的。

I think that's what, in the case of Harry, he's also done. Because funnily enough, about a month ago, I said, oh, I've got this idea to do this thing. And Harry turned around to me thirty seconds within WhatsApp and said, oh, I know, insert name of this person who's the very top in investing in Europe. I'll put you in a WhatsApp group with him. Put me in a WhatsApp group with this guy, set a voice note, said Steve's the best ever.

然后他说，史蒂夫比我强多了，各方面都是。这真的是他的原话。然后他提到他把我拉进群的那个人，他说，这家伙也是他领域里最顶尖的。把你们俩凑一块儿，祝好运。我立刻想，天啊，哈里。

Then he said he said, Steve's way better than I am, everything. This is literally what he said. Then And he said about the guy he put me in WhatsApp group, he goes, and this guy's also the best at what he does ever. Putting you two together, good luck. And immediately, thought, fucking hell, Harry.

多棒的人啊。然后他介绍给我的那个人也说，哈里是不是很棒？所以我给哈里发消息说，听着，如果有任何事

What a great guy. And then the guy he'd introduced me to goes, isn't Harry such a great guy? And so I messaged Harry. I'm like, listen. If there's anything

我能为你效劳

I can do for you

但那只是表面的平静。

but that's the calm mouth.

但说实话，我真的相信人脉网络的力量。我认为这是最重要的。你的社区、你的人脉就是一切。绝对的答案是，你必须不断向这个网络投入。因为如果你试图从中索取，它就会崩溃。

But that that honestly, I you know, I really believe in networks. I think it's the most important thing. Your community, your network is everything. And the absolute answer is you have to keep putting into the network. Because if you try and extract from the network, it collapses.

是的。因为那样你就会变成那个十年后才打电话的人，说，嘿，史蒂文。能借我点钱吗？因为我现金用完了。

Yeah. Because then you're just that guy who's making the phone call after ten years saying, hey, Steven. Can I get some money from you because I've run out of cash? The

最后我想谈的是英国和美国，以及地理位置在其中的作用。因为现在有很多关于英国的政治和社会讨论。人们对英国有些悲观。有些人对美国持乐观态度，有些人则不然。你在考虑财富创造和财务策略时，会如何考虑地理位置的因素？

last thing I wanted to talk about is The UK and The US and geographies generally and how much that plays a role. Because right now, there's lots of political, social conversations about The UK. People are a little bit doomer about The UK. Some people are optimistic about The US, some aren't. How much do you think about geographies when you're thinking about your wealth creation, your finance strategy?

这有影响吗？

Does it play a role?

我很幸运在伦敦住了一个多月。我在那里做了几期播客。我想我可以直接问你。这些播客有趣的是，当我与他们交谈时，他们告诉我，他们的大部分听众来自美国。他们的大部分收入也来自美国。

So I was fortunate enough to live in London for a little bit over a month or so. And I did a number of podcasts out there. And I guess I could just ask you. The interesting thing about these podcasts is when I was talking to them, what they told me is that the majority of their listener base is in The United States. The majority of their money comes from The United States.

他们的大部分赞助也来自美国，而不是英国。我觉得这非常有趣，因为这是一个巨大的市场。但他们说的是，许多真正想在英国发展的人，至少根据我所听到的，更愿意从美国赚钱，因为美元的金额要高得多。虽然我在那之外的全球经验不多，但我确实认为美国对那些对财富增长和积累感兴趣的人更友好。

The majority of their sponsors come from The United States. It's not from The UK. And I thought that was very interesting because it's a it's a huge market. But what they were saying is people who are really looking to grow in The United Kingdom, a lot of them at least, just from what I heard, would prefer to earn from The United States because the dollar figures are much higher. Now, don't have a lot of global experience outside of that, but I do think that The United States is more friendly for people that are interested in wealth growth, wealth accumulation.

也许不是最好的，毕竟世界上还有免税国家，但对于更具创业精神的人来说，这里有很多其他地方没有的机会。

Maybe not the best there's tax free countries out there, but in terms of for somebody who is more entrepreneurial in that sense, think you have a lot of opportunities here that you don't have other places.

拉姆，你怎么看？

What do think, Ram?

我坚信地理位置的重要性，原因有很多。我曾在英国、印度、西班牙和开曼群岛生活过，职业生涯大部分时间是在美国这边度过的。西班牙是生活方式的套利——生活成本可能只有英国的一半，美国的1/3。

I'm a huge believer in geographic location for a number of different reasons. So I've lived in The UK, India, Spain, The Cayman Islands. I spent most of my working career on this side of the pond in The US. Spain is lifestyle arbitrage. The cost of living is even probably half out of The UK and a third of that what it is in The US for the Cayman Islands.

一年300天阳光普照，人文、文化、气候都极佳，物价低廉，租房买房都便宜，堪称完美的生活套利。问题是人脉网络——你周围缺乏志同道合的进取者。但在如今这个可以线上办公的全球化时代，这完全可行。

Three hundred days of sunshine, incredible people, culture, climate, cost is very cheap, rent is cheap, to buy is cheap, everything. Perfect lifestyle arbitrage. Problem is network. You're not surrounded by people who are ambitious doing different stuff. In a globalized world now where we can work online, it's actually doable.

所以我们看到很多美国人迁往拉丁美洲，这就是套利机会，哥伦比亚也是。南美和拉美生活成本低，生活质量高，相对安全。如果你从事线上工作，就能快速实现财务自由目标。若说到智力资本，美国仍是全球浓度最高的地方，既有资金又有智力资本。

So we're seeing a lot of Americans moving down to Latin America. That's the arbitrage here, or Colombia as well. So into South America, Latin America, it's cheap, high quality of life, relatively safe. And if you're in a business where you can work online, okay, you you can get to your end goal, your coast fire thing super fast by doing that. If you want to your point, if you want intellectual capital, there is only one place in the world that has it in such high densities as The US, capital and intellectual capital.

亚洲有，印度也有，但各地都欠缺某些形式。关键是根据终极目标善用这些资源。

Asia has it. India has it. You know, it's all around, but they're all missing different forms of it. So it's using that for your end goals.

那英国呢？

What about The UK?

做不到是因为英国现在的态度已经变成我们就是不能拥有美好的事物。他们不愿意。如果我与朋友们交谈，他们不想投资。他们只想要更大的房子和下一辆租赁的汽车。目前英国人在制度上感到不快乐，这种情况已经持续一段时间了。

Can't do it because The UK's attitude now has become we just can't have nice things. They don't want to. If I speak to my friends, they don't want to invest. They just want to have the bigger house and the next car on lease. People are institutionally unhappy in The UK right now, and that has been for a while.

因此我们不再有创业文化。它已被扼杀。欧洲也是如此。所以不只是英国。整个欧洲都发生了同样的事情。

And so we don't have a culture of entrepreneurialism left. It's been stamped out. Europe too. So it's not just The UK. Everywhere in Europe, the same thing has happened.

人们不再相信自己还能拥有美好的事物了。

People just don't believe they can have nice things anymore.

当你思考你所理解的英国叙事时，比如，核心信息是什么？如果把它当作一个营销口号，英国，你是一名投资者，一名企业家，当你想到英国时，脑海中浮现的是什么？会有什么想法？

When you think about the narrative that you understand of The UK, like, what is the the message? So if it was like a marketing slogan, The UK, you're an investor, you're an entrepreneur, what what's in your head when you think of The UK? What comes out?

现实中的英国是什么样子，或者你会如何向他人推销英国？

What is it in reality, or what would be how would you sell The UK to others?

不。我是说，作为一名投资者和企业家，你认为当前英国的叙事是什么？

No. I'm saying, like, what do you think what do you think the narrative of The UK is right now as an investor and entrepreneur?

我觉得它就像一个死水。死水？

I think it just feels like a backwater. Backwater?

是啊。什么是

Yeah. What's an

经济死水？别忘了，在90年代末和2000年代，这里曾是全球金融业的中心。它是世界广告业的中心，也是所有创意产业的聚集地。这一切都基于伦敦。

economic backwater? So don't forget, in the late '90s and 2000s, it was this entire center of the world's financial industry. It was the center of the world's advertising industry. It was some of the all the creative industries. It was all based in London.

我们失去了所有这一切。为什么？因为监管。

We lost all of it. Why? Regulation.

所以你认为政府失策了？

So you think it's the government's government have misstepped?

没错。政府失策了，而美国夺回了银行体系，因为英美欧对资本要求的处理方式不同。他们成功让华尔街回归华尔街。一切都转移了。我当时在高盛工作。

Yeah. The government misstepped, and The US took the banking system back because how they treated capital requirements in The UK and Europe was different than The US. They And managed to get Wall Street back to Wall Street. It all moved. I was working for Goldman Sachs.

伦敦曾是他们的最大办事处。摩根大通、摩根士丹利等所有公司都是如此。而我们却亲手终结了这一切。如今历史正在重演，我们看到新兴产业正在崛起。

London was their biggest office. Same for JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, everybody. And we just stopped it. And now we're seeing it again. We've got newer industries rising.

我们有人工智能、加密货币。AI起源于剑桥，我想大部分技术来自谷歌DeepMind和剑桥大学。而我们却错失了良机。

We've got AI, crypto. AI came out of Cambridge. I think it was the Google Deep Mind. I think it was Cambridge University for most of that stuff. And we dropped the ball.

我们在金融行业失手了。我们在人工智能领域也失手了。牛津、剑桥、帝国理工等顶尖学府培养出大量人才，我们却未能善用。他们都去了美国。我们曾拥有加密货币行业，也曾参与其中。

We dropped the ball in the finance industry. We dropped the ball in AI. We get this massive talent density coming out of Oxford and Cambridge, Imperial College, all these others, we don't use it. They all move to The US. We had the crypto industry of which we were part of that.

这个机遇我们也错过了。我们在所有事情上都彻底失策。欧洲正通过表态'我们不想这么做'，主动关闭每扇机会之门。别忘了，如今大多数欧洲国家已是老龄化社会，他们宁愿维持现状拒绝任何变革。

We dropped that ball too. We dropped the whole ball on everything. And Europe is actively shutting the door on every opportunity by saying, we don't want to do this. Don't forget, they're a nation of old people now, most of Europe. So they'd rather just not have any change.

但若回归GDP增长的经济公式，人口增长才是关键驱动力。长期来看需要人口增长，但必须以正确方式实现。他们归咎于此，实则整个经济机器停摆是因为生育率暴跌——人口结构问题是一切困境的根源。无人养育子女，经济增长自然停滞。

But if we go back to that economic formula for GDP growth, population growth is the key driver. You need a growing population over time, but it just needs to be done in the right way. So they're blaming that, but the whole economic machine is because nobody's had kids. That's the prob the demographic problem is the structure of everything. And the problem is nobody's had kids, so you don't have economic growth.

于是试图引入外来劳动力刺激增长，却又遭排斥驱逐。与此同时经济放缓，人们趋于保守，不再愿意承担风险。

So then you try and bring in new workers to create growth. You don't want that, so they get thrown out. Meanwhile, the economy slows down. People get pulled back. They don't want to take risk anymore.

整个体系现在不得不耗费国民医疗服务来赡养老年人。没有足够新生代支撑这套系统，政府债台高筑，债券收益率飙升，所有人都困惑不已：到底发生了什么？

The whole system is now having to pay for the National Health Service to pay for these old people. There's not enough kids to support all of that. The government's getting more in debt. Bond yields are going up. Everyone's like, what's going on?

这一切从始至终都是人口结构变化的必然结果。

It's all been a function of demographics from day one.

总结陈词时间，汉弗莱。最终立场是什么？人们最该关注什么？你会如何收尾？有没有什么我该问却没问的问题？

Closing arguments, Humphrey. Closing position. What's the most important thing people should be thinking about? How would you round off? Is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you?

是的。我认为我的个人理财哲学很简单，就是收入减去支出。所以要深入了解这两项，掌握如何提升它们，然后真正留意你的钱花在了哪里。

Yeah. I think that my my personal philosophy is just that personal finances comes down to your income minus your expenses. So know those two intimately. Know how to drive both of those two. And then just really watch what you spend your money on.

对吧？比如，美国平均每月的汽车贷款是745美元。如果可能，尽量避免这类支出。保持理性。一切关键在于持续性和合理性，我相信这些微小决策会累积成更光明的未来。

Right? Like, the car the average car payment in America is $7.45 a month. Stay away from that if you can. Try be reasonable. Everything is about being consistent and reasonable, and I think those small decisions compound to a much brighter future.

对我来说，首先是自我教育。我们讨论过你的财务状况吗？你的银行账户状况如何？你的目标是什么？所以要先充实自己。

Well, for me, first thing is educate yourself. You don't know we talked about what do your finances look like? What's your bank account look like? What are you trying to achieve? So you educate yourself.

学习投资知识。投资高于一切。投资比储蓄更重要，这是实现目标的唯一途径。否则，你的财富会缩水。然后就是付诸行动。

Learn about investing. Invest above all things. Investing above saving is the only way you're going to get there. Because if not, your money goes down. And then just do it.

进行交易。做投资。失败。学习。然后一遍又一遍地重复这个过程。

Make a trade. Make an investment. Fail. Learn. Do it again and do it again.

持续学习，不断充实自己。同时建立优质人脉网络。无论是在推特还是其他社交媒体，找到能向你传授经验的人群，融入这个网络。这样你就能进步，不可能失败。

And keep learning, educating. And then surround yourself by a good network. Just be whether it's even on Twitter, on social media, find a network of people that you can learn from, add to the network. And those things, you'll you'll get ahead. You can't fail.

只要充实自我，立即行动，持续学习实践，并构建强大的人脉网络。

If you educate yourself, just get started, and then learn, keep doing it then, and just grow a great network.

那买比特币呢？显然。你持有什么币种？

And buy Bitcoin? Obviously. What what what coins do you own

在加密货币领域？好吧，这个话题现在要变得更有争议性了。实际上我只持有一个比特币，纯粹是为了留作纪念。

in crypto? So I so this is gonna get more contentious now. So I actually don't I own just one Bitcoin for posterity's sake.

哦，靠。好吧。那我得把这期节目删掉了。我的

Oh, fuck. Okay. So I own I'll delete the episode then. My

我主要持有SUI，就是那个从Facebook分拆出来的SUI加密网络。不过我也是基金会成员。实际上我把大部分流动资产都投进去了。此外我在以太坊上持有大量数字艺术品，因为对我来说这是长期保值手段。

I am own mainly SUI, which is the which is the SUI. The crypto network that came out of Facebook. But I'm also on the foundation as well. But I actually put most of my liquid net worth into that. And then I own a lot of digital art on Ethereum because that's a long term store of value for me.

NFT？对，就是NFT。我在比特币、以太坊、Solana和SUI之间进行过多次调仓。但我不做短线交易，这些都是长期持有。

NFTs? Yeah, NFTs. And so I've moved around a lot between Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and SUI. I don't trade. So these are long term holds.

我可能每两年调整一次资产配置。不过基本上都是主流大币种。

I might change once every two years, change my allocation. So but it's all generally all the big big tokens.

贾斯普里特，请做总结陈词。

And Jaspreet, closing statements.

首先，感谢Raul Humphrey和Steve组织这次活动。我想补充的是，网络上充斥着大量——恕我直言——美化被动收入或巨额财富如何轻易获取的垃圾信息，这常让人看不清实际可行的路径。我想说的是，没有什么是容易的，但无论你身处何地、背景如何，改变总是可能的，只是需要付出努力。我认为，帮助实现目标的最佳途径就是勤奋工作、做出牺牲，投入我所谓的‘十年牺牲期’。这样你才能拥有大多数人梦寐以求的生活。

Well, first off, thank you, Raul Humphrey, and Steve for putting this together. This is a and to add on to everything that you guys said, for me, I think there's a lot of, for lack of a better word, crap on the Internet of people romanticizing and fantasizing how easy it is for passive income or for insane levels of wealth, where it becomes sometimes hard to see how you could actually do that. And what I'd like to say is, look, nothing comes easy, but change can always be made regardless of where you are, what your background is, where you come from, but it's going to take work. And I think the best thing to help your outcome to get to where you want to go is hard work, sacrifice, put in what I call a decade of sacrifice. That way you can have what most people dream of.

而你能达成目标的唯一原因，就是你愿意做大多数人不愿意做的事。

And the only reason why you're able to get there is because you're willing to do what the majority of people are not willing to do.

用一句话概括，你对AI持乐观还是悲观态度？

And in a word, AI positive about it or pessimistic?

乐观。

Positive.

这是我们被赐予的最佳工具。

Best tool we've ever been given.

乐观的。没错。

Optimistic. Yeah.

好的。真令人振奋。非常感谢各位今天抽出时间。

Okay. Good. Refreshing. Very refreshing to you. Thank you all so much for giving me your time today.

我会在下方链接你告诉我的三个观众应该关注的重点内容。所以等这次对话结束后，我会请你提供三个可以找到你的渠道。首先是你们的频道，也就是YouTube上的频道。你们都是非常知名的大YouTuber，拥有令人惊叹的频道，这些频道我关注了很多很多年。你们还有什么其他觉得对观众相关的内容需要我链接的吗？

I'm I'm gonna link the top three things that you tell me we should direct the audience to below. So I'll ask you after this conversation to give me three things where people can find you. The first is gonna be your channels, so your channels on YouTube. You're all very large YouTubers and have incredible channels, channels that I followed for many, many years. Is there anything else that you guys would like me to link that you think is gonna be pertinent to the audience?

嗯，我们有一个为投资者提供的免费每日通讯，叫《市场简报》。我觉得这个会很不错。

Well, we have a free newsletter for investors that we publish every single day Yeah. Called Market Briefs. I think that would be a great one.

我也会链接这个。还有其他吗？

I'll link that one as well. Anything else?

Real Vision是个简单的地方。它是每个人都能找到所需内容的简易家园。

Real Vision is a simple place. It's a simple home for everybody to find what they need.

那么是网站吗？Realvision.com？Realvision.com。好的。那么，汉弗莱？

So The website? Realvision.com? Realvision.com. Okay. And, Humphrey?

我正在建一个网站，基本上是我的指南，但它是关于

And I'm building a website right now that's basically my my guide, but it's my guide on

不同的

different