头号神经科学家揭秘：为何你该直视对方的左眼！压力如何通过皮肤泄漏、具有传染性并导致腹部脂肪堆积！Tara Swart博士

我经常听到人们说，他们在工作时还能勉强撑住。

What I mostly would hear people say is that I can just about keep it together when I'm at work.

但一回到家，如果孩子吵闹或者伴侣要求太多，我就忍不住爆发了。

But when I get home, if my kids are annoying or my partner's asking for too much, I just snap.

这意味着如果你在工作中被人催得太急，你也随时可能爆发，这可不是好事。

So that means you are like one step away from snapping at work if somebody like pushes you too fast, so that's not good.

因为皮质醇具有促炎性，还会使身体系统极度干燥。

Because cortisol is pro inflammatory, it's very drying of the system as well.

所以你可能会发现皮肤非常干燥，或者出现皮肤问题。

So you might notice that your skin's really dry or you've got skin problems.

你的皮肤不仅是身体的物理边界，也是心理上的边界。

Your skin isn't just the physical border of your body, it's the psychological boundary of your body too.

因此，压力常常会通过皮肤表现出来。

So often stress shows up in the skin.

然后，你可以做两件主要的事情。

Then there are two main things that you can do.

一是体育锻炼，因为你可以通过出汗将体内的皮质醇排出。

One is physical exercise because you can literally sweat cortisol out of your body.

因此，通过有氧运动，你可以将体内多余的皮质醇通过出汗排出。

So you can sweat excess cortisol out of your body by doing aerobic exercise.

另一个方法是写日记。

The other one is journaling.

把心里的想法写出来，而不是让它们一直盘旋在脑海里。

So writing out what's on your mind rather than just let it be in there and keep going round and round.

或者如果你有治疗师或值得信赖的朋友，可以把这些话说出来。

Or if you've got a therapist or a trusted friend speaking it out loud.

所以，这一切都是为了把皮质醇，或者与压力相关的负面想法，从你的身心系统中释放出来？

So it's all about getting cortisol and or the negative thoughts that are associated with your stress out of your brain body system?

在过去大约六个月里，我对睡眠有了一个真正的领悟。

I've had a real revelation in my life over the last maybe six months about sleep.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这也就是为什么我在录音前说过，我上午11点之前没有任何会议，睡觉时戴着眼罩，想醒的时候自然就醒了。

Again, it's why I said, I think before we start recording that I don't have any meetings scheduled before 11AM, and I sleep with my eye mask on, and I just wake up when I wake up.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们也是。

We do.

真的吗？

Oh, really?

是的。

Yeah.

我。

I've

我从来没遇到过这样的人。

never really met anybody that has that.

这是一种特权。

It's it is a privilege.

我必须承认，不是每个人都能做到，因为工作环境或其他原因。

I have to acknowledge that that not everyone can do because of work circumstances, whatever else.

但睡眠的重要性。

But the importance of sleep.

你你你是一位神经科学家。

You you you're a neuroscientist.

是的。

Yep.

有很多人睡眠功能紊乱。

There's a lot of people who have dysfunctional sleep.

我们生活在一个越来越难以获得优质睡眠的世界里。

We live in a world where it's I feel like it's increasingly difficult to have, you know, great sleep.

这对大脑有多重要？

How important is that for the brain?

而且，我们刚才还在谈论压力，没错。

And also, you you know, we were talking about stress there, but for Yeah.

控制我们的压力水平。

Con containing our stress levels.

这太重要了。

It's so important.

我简直停不下来谈论这个。

I can't stop going on about it.

我理解，对一些人来说，这不是选择问题，他们睡不好或睡眠被打断，是因为有年幼的孩子或从事轮班工作。

And I do understand that for some people, it's not a choice that they just don't sleep well or they have their sleep gets interrupted because they've got young kids or they do shift work.

所以，我并不是特别针对那些有正当理由无法这样睡觉的人。

So I'm not particularly talking about the people where there's a reason that you can't sleep in this way.

我主要是在向这些人传达。

I'm mostly directing this out.

如果你有选择，这就是你需要的睡眠方式，原因就在这里。

If you have a choice, this is the way that you need to sleep, and this is why.

如果你没有选择，也有一些方法可以减轻影响。

If you don't have a choice, there are some things that you can do to mitigate it as well.

我的意思是，显然我作为NHS的初级医生做过轮班工作，而且经常出差。

I mean, obviously, I have done shift work as a junior doctor in the NHS and I travel a lot.

所以我一半时间都处于时差状态。

So I'm like jet lagged half the time.

但我尽量做一切能做的事，让这种情况尽可能好一些。

But I try to do everything I can to make that as good as possible.

原因是，我们一直都知道，当你睡觉时，你会巩固记忆和新学到的知识，处理情绪，身体细胞也会自我修复。

And the reason is, we've always known that when you sleep, you lay down your memories and new learning, you process your emotions, the cells in the body regenerate themselves.

这一点我们早就知道了。

We've known that for a long time.

但对于这些非常有进取心的高层人士来说，这从来不足以让他们愿意每晚牺牲八小时来睡觉。

That's never really been enough for these very driven CE level people to want to give up eight hours a night to sleep.

你知道，如果他们觉得四五个钟头就够了，他们宁愿只睡那么点，因为他们有太多事情要做。

You know, it's if they feel they can get by on four or five, then they'll rather do that because they've got so much to do.

根据人群研究，理想睡眠时间是八小时十五分钟。

The ideal is eight hours and fifteen minutes in population norm studies.

所以这并不意味着适合每个人，但对大多数人来说，这是理想的。

So that doesn't mean it's for everyone, but for most people, that's the ideal.

实际上，睡得过多可能具有抑郁倾向，会开始降低你的情绪。

Actually sleeping more than that can be depressigenic, so it can start to lower your mood.

所以你并不想睡九个小时以上，但理想情况下，你需要在床上躺九个小时才能获得这么多睡眠。

So you don't want to really be sleeping for nine plus hours, but you ideally need to be in bed for nine hours to get that amount of sleep.

因此，在2012到2014年左右，有一些获奖研究，当时我们开始意识到夜间大脑清洁的重要性。

And so there was some award winning research around 2012 to 2014, when we were beginning to understand how important the cleaning of the brain is overnight.

这是一个我们此前完全不知道存在的全新系统，被称为系统。

So this entirely new system that we didn't know existed, which is called system.

它类似于你体内的淋巴系统，但涉及胶质细胞。

It's like the lymphatic system in your body, but it's to do with glial cells.

因此它被命名为类淋巴系统。

So it was named the glymphatic system.

这个系统是一种非常活跃的脑部水道清洁系统。

That system is a very active kind of waterway channel cleansing system of the brain.

我们过去认为，大脑周围的液体以及像湖泊一样的脑室，只是通过一些缓慢流动的区域在夜间被动地渗过大脑。

We used to think that the fluid around the brain and there's ventricles, which are like lakes, and then there's just like trickling areas that, that sort of passively dripped through the brain overnight.

我们从未预料到会看到液体像喷射一样将毒素从大脑中冲刷出去。

We did not expect to see like jets of fluid flushing out toxins from the brain.

因此，我们在阿尔茨海默病和帕金森病等退行性疾病的病理中所看到的那些物质——tau蛋白、淀粉样斑块和神经纤维缠结——

So the exact things that we see in the pathology of dementing diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, tau proteins and amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles.

用英语怎么说？

How do you say that in English?

这些物质在夜间正被非常活跃地从大脑中冲刷出去。

Those things are being flushed out of the brain very actively overnight.

而这一清洁过程需要七到八小时才能完成。

And that process takes seven to eight hours to complete the cleaning.

这就是为什么你需要在床上躺八到九小时的原因。

That's why you need to be in bed for eight to nine hours.

所以，这七到八小时是指恢复性睡眠，还是仅仅指躺在床上的时间？

So it takes seven or eight hours to of restorative sleep or just being in bed?

只是睡觉。

Just sleep.

不是躺在床上。

Not in bed.

如果你躺在床上但醒着，那你并没有睡着。

If you're in bed awake, you're not asleep.

你知道，你必须得睡着。

You know, you have to be asleep.

但你会每九十分钟经历一次不同的睡眠周期。

But you'll go through the different sleep cycles every ninety minutes.

这和那个时间对不上。

This isn't in time with that.

这只是需要七到八个小时来清除你大脑中的这些物质。

This is just taking seven or eight hours to flush this stuff out of your brain.

所以我常对睡眠不好的人说，如果你半夜醒来，而且没有侧卧，那就翻个身侧卧，因为这是这种清洁过程的最佳姿势。

So one of the things I do say to people who who don't sleep well is if you find yourself awake at night and you're not lying on your side, turn yourself onto your side because that's the best position for this cleansing process.

我实际上有一个特制的枕头，能让我侧着睡，因为我本来不是侧睡的人。

I actually have a special pillow that makes me sleep on my side because I wasn't naturally a side sleeper.

所以，无论是左边还是右边都没关系，但相比仰卧或俯卧，侧卧对颈部的静脉更有利。

So it it doesn't matter if it's the left or the right, but that is a better position in terms of the veins in your neck than sleeping on your back or your front.

所以，这是你可以做的一件事。

So that's one thing you can do.

哦，如果你醒来了，知道自己的睡眠被打扰了，至少要把自己翻到侧卧姿势。

Oh, you woke up, you know, your sleep was disturbed, at least turn yourself onto your side.

这个特制的枕头是什么？

What is this special pillow?

你刚才夸了它一下就跳过了，我感觉有点突兀。

You just you just bragged about it then moved on, I feel like.

它是一个记忆棉枕头。

It's it's a memory foam pillow.

我可以提一下品牌吗？

Am I allowed to mention the brand?

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们会确保他们在之前就赞助它。

We'll we'll make sure they sponsor it before.

这是一个记忆棉枕头。

It's a memory foam pillow.

我的这个是Temple UK的。

This my one is by Temple UK.

他们实际上送了我一个，因为我之前聊过侧睡的事。

And they actually they gifted it to me because I was talking about side sleepings.

是的。

Yeah.

这很棒。

It's great.

好的。

Okay.

我是侧睡者。

I'm a side sleeper.

我女朋友是仰睡者，但我不能仰着睡。

My girlfriend's a back sleeper, but I can't sleep on my back.

有趣的是，我一开始是趴着睡。

It's funny because I start on my front.

但只能坚持十五分钟，因为下背部会疼。

That lasts for fifteen minutes because I get bad back at the bottom of my back.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我就翻到侧边睡。

I roll onto my side.

但我嗯。

But I Yeah.

我一直在想，当我们观察部落和我们的祖先时，他们是怎么睡觉的？他们是群睡还是独睡？

I've always wondered if there was when you look at tribes and our ancestors, how they would sleep, would they sleep in groups?

他们是独睡吗？

Would they sleep alone?

他们是侧睡还是仰睡？

Would they sleep on their side, their back?

你知道这些问题中的任何一个答案吗

Do you know the answers to any of

吗？

that?

我知道，共睡确实是我们进化过程中形成的方式，也就是群体睡眠。

I know that co sleeping is definitely how we evolved from co sleeping, so in groups.

我觉得有趣的是，当时在洞穴里，人们需要靠在一起取暖，但正因为这种亲近和互动，身体会分泌更多的催产素——这种促进情感联结的激素。

And what was what what I find interesting is that you needed to huddle together like that for physical warmth in the cave, but it also, because of that proximity and interaction, you got more of the bonding hormone oxytocin.

所以你也体验过作为部落一员的温暖。

So you also experienced the warmth of being part of a tribe.

我认为他们侧睡是因为必须随时准备应对捕食者的袭击。

And I think they stepped on their side because they would have to be ready for an attack from a predator.

所以你需要让主导的手臂保持准备状态，以便能抓住什么东西。

So you'd need to keep your dominant arm ready to, you know, grab something.

而且他们很可能左侧着睡，因为这样可以保护最重要的器官——心脏。

And most likely they slept on their left because they would've been protecting their most vital organs, the heart.

于是我在想，这种促进 bonding 的化学物质，当我们彼此靠近时就会释放。

Just thinking then about this bonding chemical and how it comes out when we're in close proximity.

很多情侣，很多人，包括我有时也会睡在客房，因为我要工作，或者我的伴侣有工作安排。

A lot of couples, a lot of people, me sometimes as well, sleep in the spare room because I have work commitments, but that all mean that I'm up early or my partner has work commitments.

这意味着她得早起。

That means she's up early.

但就连一些刚当父母的朋友也是如此。

But even some of my friends who are in the early stages of parenthood Mhmm.

已经分开了，嗯。

Have separated Mhmm.

而且处于睡眠离婚的状态。

And have a sleep divorce situation.

当你谈到亲密接触时会释放催产素这种联结化学物质，而夜间正是我们身体真正接触的时候，那么，如果分开房间、实行睡眠离婚，会不会实际上削弱了我们的情感联结呢？

When you talked about the bonding and the oxytocin being released when we're in closer proximity, and obviously at nighttime is when we're literally touching each other, is it conceivable that by separating rooms and by doing a sleep divorce, we're actually eroding our bonding?

我绝不会这么做。

I would never do it.

你永远不会和你的伴侣睡在不同的房间吗？

You would never sleep in a different room from your apartment?

永远不会。

Never.

除非可能有新生儿，一个人要上班，另一个人不用。

Apart from maybe if there was a young baby and one person had to go to work and one person didn't.

这种情况我能理解，但那是暂时的。

That I get, but that's temporary.

理想情况下，人们会找到方法来弥补这一点。

And ideally people would find ways to make up for that.

我的意思是，那时你可能正处于一种由婴儿带来的催产素所营造的爱的泡泡中。

I mean, I guess you're in a bit of a love bubble with the oxytocin from the baby at that time.

所以这具有很强的神经保护作用，但共睡是我们生存的根本。

So that is quite neuroprotective, But co sleeping is it's it's fundamental to our survival.

在我们生活在洞穴里的时代，这是生理上的根本；但现在，我认为在情感上、精神上，它依然是我们生存的根本。

It was physically when we were in the cave, but now I would say emotionally, spiritually, it's fundamental to our survival.

我的意思是

I mean

为了澄清一下，你说的共睡是指什么？

What do you mean by co sleeping, just to clarify?

一起睡觉。

Sleeping together.

所以，在我们这个社会里，这通常是指夫妻一起睡。

So mostly in, you know, in our society, that's as a couple.

但在许多其他文化中，整个家庭都会一起睡觉。

But a lot of other cultures, the whole family sleeps together.

你为什么从不这么做？

Why would you never do it?

你对这一点似乎非常热情。

You you seemed quite passionate about that.

因为这对你们非常好。

Because I it's so good for you.

亲密的联结、身体的温暖、皮肤接触、爱与信任，你知道的。

The bonding, the physical warmth, the skin to skin contact, the love, the trust, you know.

我的意思是，如果有人起得早，而我不必在那时醒来，我甚至愿意忍受这种情况。

I mean, I'll put up if some if somebody's waking up early and I don't have to wake up at that time, I'll I'll even put up with that.

所以你的睡眠质量会更低吗？

So you'll have less quality sleep?

睡眠质量并不会降低。

It won't be less quality sleep.

我戴过HRV监测仪，数据显示，即使在我丈夫五点醒来而我直到八点都还没醒的情况下，只要他亲吻我道别，我就会在那一刻出现韧性提升的峰值。

I've worn HRV monitors and shown that even at the time, if my husband would wake up at five, and I wouldn't wake up any like, at all before eight, and he gave me a kiss goodbye, I got a spike of resilience at that time.

韧性？

Resilience?

对。

Yeah.

你怎么测量这个呢？

How how do you measure that?

我当时使用的是芬兰的这项技术，通过在胸前贴一个凝胶垫来佩戴HRV监测仪。

So I was using that Finnish technology where you wear the HRV monitor with a gel pad on your chest.

它会用颜色编码显示你是在进行轻度运动、剧烈运动、处于压力状态，还是在恢复韧性。

And so it's color coded for whether you're doing light exercise, heavy exercise, whether you're stressed, or whether you're recouping resilience.

大多数人都是在夜间恢复韧性。

And mostly people recoup resilience overnight.

但对于有年幼孩子的家庭，你可以清楚地看到，当他们在夜间被吵醒时，身体就会进入压力状态。

But, you know, you could clearly see with people with young children, you could see when they were woken up overnight, so it would go into stress.

有些人会在白天恢复韧性。

Some people recoup resilience during the day.

比如，如果你和伴侣或兄弟姐妹坐在一起，非常放松，或者你热爱自己的工作，你也能看到这种现象在白天发生。

If, you know, let's say you're like with your partner or your sibling and you're just sitting together and it's super relaxed, or if you love your job, you you can see that happening during the day as well.

但我对睡眠如此执着，通常不会欢迎任何睡眠干扰。

But because I am so obsessed with my sleep, I wouldn't normally welcome any sleep disturbance.

但共眠整夜、依偎在一起的神经保护作用如此强大，我鼓励每个人如果可能的话都这样做。

But the power of sleeping together and cuddling all night is so neuroprotective that I would encourage everybody to do it if they can.

我也认识一些人说，哦，我自己睡会睡得更好。

I also know some people who say, oh, I sleep better if I sleep on my own.

但我们生来就不是为了独自生存的。

But we were not meant to survive on our own.

我们生来就是作为部落一员来生存的。

We are meant to survive as part of a tribe.

我认为，自从疫情以来，人们比以往任何时候都更加迷失、孤独和疏离。

And I think now, you know, since the pandemic, people are more lost and lonely and disconnected than ever.

如果你有个人可以整晚一起睡觉，我强烈建议你这么做。

If you've got somebody that you can actually sleep with overnight, I strongly suggest that you do it.

我想朝这个方向深入，因为我对此非常感兴趣。

So I wanna go in that direction because I'm super compelled by that.

世界的变化，以及那些迷失、孤独、脱节的人们。

The the change in the world and the lost, the lonely, the disconnected.

但让我们暂时停一下，谈谈你提到的与心率变异性相关的‘韧性’这个词。

But just to pause for a second on this word resilience you're using linked to heart rate variability.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你所说的是一种生理上的韧性，比如身体更具韧性，而不是我们通常在心理层面上说的韧性，比如我能承受更大的压力或挑战。

You're you're talking about, like, a physiological resilience, like a the body being more resilient versus the kinda when we talk about resilience, we we we say it in more of a psychological context of, like, I can withstand greater stress or pressure.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但你使用了心率变异性监测仪，它测量心跳之间的间隔，发现当你丈夫亲吻你时，你的心率变异性增加了，这意味着你的身体在生理上更具韧性。

But you're you used a heart rate variability monitor that measures the distance between heartbeats and saw that when your husband gave you a kiss, your heart rate variability increased, which means that your body was more physiologically resilient.

它实际上测量两者，因为它会将你的心率变异性与心率进行比较。

It actually measures both because it compares your heart rate variability to your heart rate.

好的。

Okay.

所以它能知道你是否在运动，因为你的血压已经升高了。

So it knows if you're exercising because your heart rate has gone up.

但如果你的心率处于基础水平，那么变异性变化可能意味着你正在承受压力，或者正在恢复韧性。

But if your heart rate is at, like, base level, then the the change in variability can either mean that you're stressed or you're recouping resilience.

如果你的心率很高，那显然是生理性的，但这是两个因素的综合结果。

If your heart rate is high, then it's obviously physical, but it's a factor of both.

所以它不仅仅是在观察生理韧性。

So it's not just looking at physical resilience.

当它处于这种青绿色区域时，实际上更多是关于恢复心理韧性。

It is looking when when it's in this turquoise zone, that is actually more about recouping psychological resilience.

但这两者是相互影响的，不过它能通过心率来区分它们。

But those two things, you know, they feed into each other, but it can tell the difference because of your heart rate.

显然我当时在睡觉，所以我的心率很低。

So obviously I was asleep, so my heart rate was low.

当你给我的时候，你在监测器上看到了什么？

And you saw what on the monitor when you gave

我确实看到了，因为它每15秒也会测量一次。

me I literally saw it, but because it does it by every 15 as well.

就在那个确切的时间，我看到了 turquoise 区域的最高峰值。

And I saw the highest spike of turquoise at that exact time.

很有趣的是，我女朋友大概一个月前或两个月前，有一天我一大早就出门了，大概也是这个时间，早上6点，而她还在床上。

Funny because my girlfriend, a couple about a month ago or two months ago, I left the house quite early in the morning, maybe about this similar time, 6AM in the morning, when she was still in bed.

我走过去给了她一个大大的吻。

And I came up to her and gave her, like, a big kiss.

我几乎亲遍了她全身，这太肉麻了。

I basically kissed all around her this is so soppy.

我亲了她整张脸，还有她的鼻子，给了她一个大大的拥抱，然后就走了，上了出租车离开了。

I kissed all around her face and on her nose and just gave her a big big hug and stuff and I walked away, like got on the gone got in the taxi and left whatever.

她跟我说，就在同一天或者第二天，她说：我不知道那里发生了什么，但它唤醒了我内心某种东西。然后我的女朋友接着说，她最近在月经周期上遇到了一些问题，结果她的月经就来了。

And she said to me, the same day or the day after, she went, I don't know what happened there, but it unlocked something in me and, you know then my girlfriend went on to say she'd had some challenges with her menstrual cycle, and and she came on her period.

这太神奇了。

That's amazing.

我总是对的。

I love always right.

当她对我说这些话时，她也知道这一点，但我还是愿意给她肯定，因为我一向持怀疑态度，因为我们思考方式不同。

Like, when she says things to me, and she knows this, but I give her a credit, I'm always skeptical because we think differently.

她很有灵性。

She's quite spiritual.

是的。

Yeah.

我则非常务实，我需要科学依据。

I'm very like, I need some science.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她对我说了这些，我当时就想，唉，早上一个吻和一个拥抱怎么可能对她产生任何生理影响。

And she said that to me, I just thought, ugh, a kiss and a hug in the morning hasn't couldn't have had any physiological impact on her.

但现在我开始怀疑，我是不是又一次错了。

But now I'm starting to question whether once again I was wrong.

这太神奇了。

That's amazing.

我的意思是，有些事情不一定能立刻用科学来解释。

I mean, you know, some of these things can't necessarily immediately be explained by science.

但如果你相信直觉，你就得问问自己。

But if you use your intuition, then you have to ask yourself.

我觉得你正在逐渐接受这种可能性可能是真的。

And I feel like you are coming around to thinking that could be true.

当我得到一个理由时，我就会接受这些事。

When I'm when I'm given a reason, I accept things.

如果，你知道，哪怕有一点点科学依据能证明它，我就会接受这些观点。

If, you know, if there's even even a slither of science that could justify it, then I I come around to ideas.

但我确实需要科学依据。

But I do need the science.

你认为男性和女性在直觉以及理解这些空气中存在的力量方面有所不同吗？你笑了。

Do you think that men and women are different in terms of their intuition and their their ability to you're smiling.

他们理解这些空气中存在的力量的能力？

Their ability to kind of understand some of these forces that exist in the air?

因为我的女朋友似乎对情感和直觉非常敏感，而我则没那么敏感。

Because my girlfriend just seems to be so attuned to feelings and intuition and I'm less so.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，我们这样来说吧。

So if let's let's put it like this.

如果房间里有一百个人，五十个男人和五十个女人，你让他们按身高排队，不会所有男人都比所有女人高。

If you had a 100 people in a room, 50 men and 50 women, and you asked them to line up in order of height, not all the men would be taller than all the women.

在中间部分，会有一些混杂。

In the middle, there'd be a bit of a mixture.

大脑和直觉以及其他方面也是如此。

And it's like that with the brain and intuition and everything else.

所以，是的，确实存在一些差异。

So yeah, there are some, there's some disparity.

所以我认为大多数人会同意，感觉上女性比男性更贴近自己的直觉，但这绝对不是所有女性对所有男性的区别。

So I think most people would agree that it feels like more women are in touch with their intuition than men, but it's absolutely not all women versus all men.

你认为女性更贴近自己的直觉吗？

Do you believe women are more in touch with their intuition?

我认为她们更愿意接受直觉这种东西的存在。

I think they're more open to accepting that it's a thing.

我相信男性更需要科学来解释直觉是如何运作的。

And I believe that the more men need the science to explain how intuition works.

有意思。

Interesting.

我想知道这是否有什么神经学上的原因。

I wonder if there was like a brain a neurological reason for that.

我认为会有更多女性和男性相信直觉，以及那些难以言喻的感觉，你知道的。

I think there'd be more women and men that believed in intuition and those, like, feelings that are hard to explain and this, you know.

这变化很大。

That's changed a lot.

我的意思是，我记得七年前在麻省理工学院教书时，我在讲授直觉的科学，当时教室里都是资深领导者，属于高管教育课程。

I mean, I remember when I was teaching at MIT about seven years ago and I was teaching the science of intuition, someone actually stood, know, it's all senior leaders in the classroom, it's executive education.

有个人站起来说：‘我不会在做重要决定，比如雇人或裁员时，依赖我的直觉，对吧？’

Someone stood up and said, well, I'm not gonna make a really important decision, like hire or fire based on my gut feeling, am I?

他很年轻，而几位年长的男士转过身来，说：‘这正是我做决定、尤其是最重要决定的方式。’

And he was quite young and quite a few of the older guys turned around and were like, that's absolutely how I would make my decision and my most important decisions.

但那时，人们仍不太确定直觉是否真的是你的超能力。

But at that time, it was still kind of like, not everybody was really sure that that's your superpower.

但我认为，人们正逐渐明白，随着年龄、经验和智慧的增长，你会意识到直觉实际上应该是你最强有力的决策方式。

But I think people are beginning to understand more that with age and experience and wisdom, you do understand that intuition is actually your strongest, should be your strongest decision making modality.

直觉是什么？

What is intuition?

因为你无法记住一生中所有经历过的事情，但这些信息储存在你的神经结构和肠神经中，因为你确实经历过。

So, because you can't remember everything that you've experienced in your whole life, but somewhere in the neural architecture and in the gut neurons as well, that information is stored because you have experienced it.

所以你可能会说，你明白智慧和经验是你生活中反复出现的、你有意识察觉到的模式的产物。

So maybe you would say that you understand that wisdom and experience is the product of patterns that you've seen repeating in your life that are conscious to you.

直觉则是你在过程中无意识地吸收的教训，它们虽然不在你的意识层面，却依然储存在你的神经系统中。

Intuition is the lessons that you've picked up along the way that you're not conscious of, but they're still stored in your nervous system.

因此，你对这些教训的意识越少，它们在神经系统中就越深。

And so the less conscious you are of them, the deeper they're pushed into the nervous system.

这里有一个被称为赫布学习的过程，以神经科学家唐纳德·赫布命名。

So there's a process called Hebbian learning named after the neuroscientist, Donald Hebb.

简单来说，就是‘一起放电的神经元会连接在一起’，你今天学到的东西，比如和我交谈中学到的内容，会停留在意识前沿，形成一些刚刚开始相互连接的微小通路。

And that is, it's basically, you know, neurons that fire together wire together, but it's that the things that you've learned today, like things that you've learned by speaking with me, that's gonna be very front of mind and kind of just in like little pathways that are just kind of connecting up with each other.

但你五岁时学到的东西——比如把手放进火里被烫伤，从此再也不想这么做——这些记忆则深藏在潜意识里。

But stuff that you learned when you were five, like when you put your hand in a fire and it burnt you and you never ever want to do that again, that's deep down.

你并没有真正意识到它，但还有其他一些你可能已经记不起来的事情。

You're not really conscious of that, but, you know, and other things maybe that you don't recall.

因此，我们认为，你的智慧会从大脑皮层逐渐深入到边缘系统——即大脑的情感系统，再进入脑干、脊髓，乃至肠道神经元。

So we believe that your, that wisdom gets pushed from the outer cortex into the limbic system, which is the emotional system of the brain, into the brainstem, into the spinal cord, and into the gut neurons.

这就是为什么人们有时称之为‘直觉’，因为它是一种知道某事的感觉，却说不清为什么知道。

And that's why they sometimes call it gut instinct, because it's that feeling of knowing something, but not knowing why you know it.

但这实际上是因为你拥有的智慧和经验已经内化于你体内，只是你未必意识到这一点。

But it's actually to do with the fact that you have wisdom and experience that is, it's embodied in you, but you're not conscious of it necessarily.

听到这些记忆和智慧会存在于肠道中，这让我感到相当惊讶。

It's quite surprising to hear that those memories, that wisdom can be in the gut.

人们通常认为，我肯定也是那种一直觉得自己的认知、记忆和所有智慧都只存在于大脑中的人。

People think of you know, I think I'm certainly someone who always thought that my cognition, my memories, and my all of the intelligence exists just in my brain.

你的记忆、认知和智商确实在大脑中，但你的直觉则存在于大脑和肠道中。

Your memories and your cognition and your IQ are in your brain, but your intuition is in your brain and your gut.

这听起来可能很蠢，但我无所谓。

This sounds super stupid, but I don't care.

我应该坦率地承认自己的愚钝。

I should just be I should just be honest about my stupidity.

我的肠道里哪里？

Where in my gut?

我以为那只是我的胃。

I'm like, I thought that was like my stomach.

那是我放食物的地方。

That's where I put the food.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，你有胃，有小肠，有大肠。

So, you know, you've got your stomach, you've got your small intestine, you've got your large intestine.

是的。

Yeah.

你还有其他器官，比如肝脏、脾脏、肾脏，它们都有神经支配，也就是说，它们都有神经分布其中。

You have other organs, your liver, your spleen, your kidneys, and they're all innervated, which means they've all got nerves going into them.

你的心脏也是。

So does your heart.

所以，我们也可以用类似的方式讨论你的心脏，因为心脏之所以能够跳动，完全依赖于穿透其中的神经。

So, we could have a similar conversation like this about your heart as well, because your heart only knows how to beat because of the nerves that penetrate it.

这个位于体内的大脑以及沿着背部中央延伸的脊髓，产生了所有通往你手臂、腿部、所有器官以及皮肤（你最大的器官）的神经元。

So, this round brain in here and the spinal cord that goes down the center of your back, that gives rise to all of the neurons that go out to your arms, your legs, all of your organs, your skin, which is your largest organ.

这就是它的运作机制，因为你的身体每一个部分都有神经细胞，或者说神经通路。

And so that's how that works because every single part of your body has nerve cells or, you know, nerve pathways in them.

所以，这就是其中的联系。

So that's the connection.

这让我们回到了我之前所说的关于大脑与身体的联系。

That brings us back to what, you know, what I was saying about the brain body connection.

它们紧密相连，而且是一种双向的互动。

They're intimately connected and it's a bidirectional thing.

它们彼此依赖，缺一不可。

It's they can't exist without each other.

你越理解这种持续不断的双向反馈，就越能利用这种机制。

And the more you understand that there's that constant feedback going back and forth, the more you can tap into that kind of thing.

你越能提前几天知道即将生病。

The more you can know days before you're gonna get sick.

我打赌你的女朋友在感冒或流感前就能提前几天感觉到。

I bet your girlfriend knows days before she's gonna get a cold or flu.

是的，她确实能。

Yes, she does.

没错。

Yeah.

总是这样。

All the time.

而我的客户却从来不知道。

And my clients never know.

一旦他们去度假，整个星期都会生病。

And as soon as they go on holiday, they're sick the whole week.

为什么他们不去度假呢？

Why why wouldn't they go on holiday?

因为他们为了能继续工作而压抑了身体的信号。

Because they suppress it to be able to do their job.

你可以压抑疾病，也可以只是不去承认它。

And you can suppress illness or you can just not acknowledge it.

并不是说他们抑制了感冒病毒，而是他们的免疫系统正被皮质醇消耗殆尽。

It's not necessarily that they had a cold virus that they suppressed, but it's that their body is, you know, the immune system is being run down by the cortisol.

皮质醇。

Cortisol.

所以一旦身体得到休息，就会开始崩溃。

And so as soon as it gets a break, that's when it kind of succumbs.

金融危机后有一段时间，有人告诉我，我已经感冒了四周甚至六周了，但每个人都这样。

And there was a time after the financial crisis when I had people saying, I've had cold for like four weeks now or six weeks, but everybody's got it.

我当时想，抱歉，你真的觉得这正常吗？

And I was like, I'm sorry, but do you actually think that's normal?

你觉得感冒超过一周是正常的吗？

Do you think it's normal to have a cold for more than a week?

而且你知道，像这样的挑战之所以出现，也是因为无论是在工作还是社交圈中，群体思维让我们彼此之间对这类事情的质疑不够。

And you know, then it takes a challenge like that because also the other thing that happens in, you know, with group think, whether it's at work or in your social circle is that we don't challenge each other enough on those sort of things.

所以如果一个朋友说，‘我这个感冒已经持续六周了’，我可能会说，‘哎呀，真可怜。’

So if a friend said, oh, I've had this cold for six weeks, I might say, oh, poor you.

但我不会这么说，但别人可能会。

But if I wouldn't, but someone might.

但你知道，关键还在于要问：是不是还有什么别的问题？

But you know, it's also about saying, is there something else wrong?

因为这并不正常。

Because that's not usual.

对我来说，这绝对会指向皮质醇的问题。

And for me, that would absolutely lead back to cortisol.

刚才我们本打算探讨你所说的迫在眉睫的危机。

Second ago, we were gonna go down the pathway of the looming crisis that you speak about.

你所担心的迫在眉睫的危机是什么？

What is the looming crisis that you're concerned about?

史蒂文，我在疫情初期就看到了这种危机的征兆。

Steven, I I saw this looming at the beginning of the pandemic.

这已经不是什么即将来临的危机了。

It's not looming anymore.

我们已经身处危机之中。

It is we are in crisis.

所以，你知道，我们在疫情期间经历的所有健康焦虑、不确定性和恐惧与损失已经够糟糕了。

So, you know, all of the health anxiety and the uncertainty and the fear and the loss that we experienced during the pandemic was bad enough.

它造成的压力水平是当今任何活着的人都从未经历过的。

You know, it caused a level of stress that no one who's alive today has experienced before.

但我们已经走出来了。

But we've come out of it.

我们相对而言，我不知道是否可以说回到了正常状态，或者进入了新常态。

We're relatively, I don't know if I could say back to normal or in the new normal.

然而，我们却完全没有关注发生在我身上的这些事所带来的后果。

And we have not paid any attention to the consequences of what happened to us.

当我说‘我们’时，我指的是那些在那时出生、从未见过任何人的婴儿，只见过他们的直系亲属。

And when I say us, I mean everyone from the babies that were born at that time that never saw anyone but their immediate family.

青少年们也很有意思，男孩的表现比女孩好，因为他们会在网上玩电子游戏。

The teenagers that interestingly boys did better than girls because they play video games on the internet.

所以他们保持了联系。

So they stayed connected.

还有那些孤立的老年人、失去亲人的人等等。

You know, the older people that isolated, the people that like lost loved ones, etcetera.

有太多事情了。

Like there's so many things.

我还能说出更多类似的事情。

I could say more things than that.

我们根本没有承认这些事情发生过，以及我们所经历的一切。

We haven't really acknowledged that that's what happened and what we went through.

大多数人并没有真正理解，由于这些经历，他们现在的生活发生了什么变化，或者他们正在经历什么。

We, most people are not really understanding what's changed for them or what's going on for them at the moment as a result of that.

我们当然也没有为未来制定任何计划。

And we certainly haven't made any plan for the future.

说实话，我目前非常关注原住民的智慧。

Know, I'm really into indigenous wisdom at the moment.

我了解到，关于美洲原住民，当他们为社区做出重大决定时，会设想这个决定对七代之后的影响。

And one of the things I've learned about the first Americans is that when they make a big decision for their community, they imagine the impact of that decision seven generations into the future.

我们甚至不考虑一代人之后的未来。

We don't even think about one generation into the future.

我们只关心当下正在发生的事情。

We just think about, like, what's going on right now.

有时候，我们甚至根本不会考虑自己的未来。

We we we don't even really think about our own future, like, some of the time.

我记得在2020年3月，我曾明确地想过：这将是一场心理健康危机。

I remember thinking like literally in March 2020, this is gonna be a mental health crisis.

不管身体上会发生什么。

Like whatever happens physically.

随着时间推移，我越来越觉得这是一场心理健康危机，一场心理健康危机。

And as time went on, more so I thought mental health crisis, mental health crisis.

然后我开始想，好吧，还有可能是别的什么呢？

And then I started to think, okay, what else could it be?

当然，我有了时间去深入探索那些过去在旅行和全职工作时无暇顾及的其他兴趣领域。

And I had time, of course, to indulge in some of the other areas of interest I couldn't when I was, like, traveling and working full on.

所以我开始更多地阅读关于灵性、古代文化等方面的内容。

So I, you know, started reading more about spirituality and ancient cultures and stuff.

我觉得这可能是一场灵性革命。

And I thought this could be a spiritual revolution.

当你说到灵性革命时，这是一个非常宽泛的术语。

When you say spiritual revolution, it's a very big, broad term.

你指的是什么？

What do you mean?

如果我回望过去，而你也知道，你已经很好地讲述了我转行后的这段旅程，它最初是从身体层面开始的。

If I look back and and you've, you know, you've led a very nice story of of my my journey since I changed career, is that it started off with that physical piece.

你知道吗，在我工作的地方，虽然压力很大，但人们甚至会突发心脏病。

You know, for me, where I was working, there was stress, but people were having heart attacks.

然后我花了多年时间与人们一起研究心理韧性。

Then I spent many years working on mental resilience with people.

情绪调节是其中的一部分。

And emotional regulation was part of that.

在疫情期间，这一点再次变得重要，因为我们与他人紧密相处，生活变得非常不同，充满挑战，还要兼顾居家教育、工作等等。

And that became important again in the pandemic because we were in like close quarters with people and it was just very different and it was hard and there was homeschooling and working and everything.

我认为疫情带来的一些积极变化是，我们重新认识到亲近自然的重要性。

What I've seen as some of the good things that I've seen as a result of the pandemic is that we've definitely appreciated again, the importance of our time in nature.

所以我想，我们大多数人也都感受到，能够外出到绿色环境中确实非常重要。

So I think most of us felt that, that, you know, being able to get out and be somewhere green was really important.

由于没有航班和交通，我们又能看到夜空中的繁星，欣赏到壮丽的日落，人们也开始欣赏鸟鸣。

And because there was like no planes and no traffic, you know, we could see the stars in the sky again, we saw amazing sunsets, People began to appreciate birdsong.

如今的研究表明，花时间在大自然中对你的身体健康、心理健康和寿命都有显著的积极影响。

And now the studies are showing that time spent in nature actually has a really positive impact on your physical health, your mental health, and your longevity.

所以，你知道，这是从中产生的一件好事，但我们是否仍在为这件事腾出时间呢？

So, you know, that's one good thing that's come out of it, but are we all still making time for that?

还是我们只是回到了以前的老样子？

Or are we just going back to kind of our old ways?

另一个值得关注的方面是，拥有超越自我的目标对心理健康尤其重要，而且还会产生连锁效应。

The other things of interest that have come out is that having a purpose that transcends yourself is really important to your mental health particularly, but it will have knock on effects.

所以，你可以这么说，我喜欢做我的播客，我喜欢结识有趣的人。

So, you know, you could say, well, I do my podcast and I love doing my podcast and I get to meet interesting people.

而且，我会把我的知识分享给其他人。

And I, you know, I share that knowledge with others.

但很多这仍然与自我满足有关。

A lot of that is still to do with self satisfaction.

所以，拥有某种不一定直接为你带来好处，但却赋予你人生意义的事情，是非常重要的。

So having something that doesn't necessarily do anything for you, but gives you purpose in life is really important.

那会是什么呢？

And what could that be?

那可能是

That could be

那可能是志愿服务。

That could be volunteering.

比如对我而言，我在Instagram上分享大量免费信息，并不是为了找工作或类似的目的。

It could be, you know, for know, for me, like, I I give out a lot of free information on Instagram that and not for to try to get work or anything like that.

当我说志愿服务时，听起来好像很宏大，但其实也可以是，比如你去超市时，问一下年长的邻居是否需要帮他们买菜。

It could be So when I say volunteering, that sounds quite big, but it could be like asking your elderly neighbor if you can do their groceries for them when you go to the supermarket.

也可以是给朋友打个电话，问问他们好不好。

It could be calling up a friend and checking that they're okay.

就是一些让你觉得生活值得过下去的事情，但并不会为你带来金钱或直接改善你的生活。

Just something that makes you feel like life is worth living, but doesn't necessarily earn you money or directly improve your life.

我接触过很多治疗师，他们谈到我们最不想感受到的两种情绪：一是觉得自己与众不同，二是觉得自己不够好。

I've spoken to a lot of therapists who talk about the fact that we of the things we never want to feel is like we're a) different and b) we're not enough.

我一直在用我们部落的视角来思考这个问题。

And I was thinking about that through the lens of our tribes.

在部落的背景下，如果我与众不同，就有可能被逐出部落。

In the context of a tribe, if I was different, there was a risk of me being kicked off the tribe.

如果我觉得自己不够好，同样会面临被逐出部落的风险，因为我对部落没有价值。

And if I didn't feel like I was enough, I again, would have a risk of being kicked out of the tribe because I'm not valuable to the tribe.

结合你刚才谈到的为他人服务，这是否也源于一种史前的渴望——希望通过服务部落的共同利益，来感受到自己在为部落增添价值？

And in the context of what you were saying about serving others, is that again sort of like a prehistoric desire to feel like we're adding value and we are of use to the tribe by serving the greater good of the of our tribe.

这种本能是不是就来源于此，梅拉斯？

Is that where that instinct comes from, Melas?

你刚才说的正是我想表达的：当我对答案不确定时，我会回到进化论的角度去思考。

I love what you've done, which is exactly what I said, which is when I when I'm not sure of the answer, I'll go back to evolution.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我总是这样。

I always do that.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这一点。

I love that.

我以前从未这样想过，但我觉得这是对的。

I think I hadn't thought of it like that, exactly like that before, but I think it's true.

你知道，一个部落，遗憾的是，无法负担累赘。

You know, a tribe, sadly, could not afford to carry dead weight.

所以如果你不够好，比如你受伤了、行动不便、年迈了，或者没有贡献，你就可能被抛弃。

So if you weren't enough, you know, if you were injured, if you were immobile, if you were elderly, if you weren't contributing, then you might get left behind.

还有一个非常有趣的新研究领域，叫做神经美学或神经艺术，指的是在日常生活中加入某种创造性活动。

And then there's this really interesting new area of research called neuro aesthetics or neuro arts, which is about having some kind of creative activity in your regular schedule.

大量研究表明，如果你每周不进行一次创造性活动，这可以是跳舞、音乐、绘画、素描、去剧院、读小说。

So there's lots of research that shows that if you're not doing something creative once a week, and that could be dance, music, painting, drawing, going to the theater, reading a novel.

所以范围其实很广。

So really quite broad.

时间和自然其实也包含在内。

Time and nature actually is included in it.

因为大自然是我们所有人都喜爱的调色板。

Then because nature is the palette that we all love.

你知道，你我可能对艺术或音乐的品味不同，但所有人类都热爱大自然，因为我们一直生活在这片美景之中。

You know, you could have different taste in art or music to me, but all humans love nature because we've always been in that beauty.

因此，大自然对你的心理健康、身体健康和寿命的影响也十分巨大。

So the impact of that on your mental health and your physical health and your longevity is huge as well.

但即使是每天早上，我今天早上突然想到了这一点，因为我本来想提一下，但昨晚我做饭时榨过柠檬。

But even just like every morning, I actually thought of this this morning, because I wanted to mention this, but I had zested a lemon last night when I was cooking.

所以今天早上，当我去冰箱拿牛奶时，我闻到了柠檬的香味，因为它放在冰箱里，我心想，这真是太美了。

So this morning, when I went to get the milk out of the fridge, I I smelled it because it was in the fridge and I just thought, that is so beautiful.

他们说，比如，如果你在床头柜上放了一束花，清晨醒来第一口呼吸就是芬芳的香气。

And so they say things like, you know, if you've put like a bunch of flowers on your bedside table and it smells nice, and that's the first thing you smell in the morning.

然后你再看看那些美丽的花朵。

And then you like, look at the beautiful flowers.

如果你家里有美丽的物品，清晨听到鸟鸣，这些都属于神经美学的范畴。

If you've got objects of beauty in your house, if you listen to birdsong in the morning, that that's all neuroaesthetics.

这是一种让大脑感到审美愉悦的生活方式。

It's living a life that is aesthetically pleasing to your brain.

这对你的健康有益。

And that's good for your health.

为什么？

Why?

我们要不要回到进化论？

Should we go back to evolution?

我想说的是，这与安全有关。

Should I make Please, a

这是我最喜欢做的事。

that's my favorite thing to do.

我认为这与安全感有关。

I think it's to do with safety.

所以，如果你能腾出心理资源去欣赏美，那一定意味着你是安全的。

So if you are able to spare your mental resources to appreciate beauty, that must mean that you're safe.

这说明你不仅仅是在努力生存。

That must mean that you're not just trying to survive.

所以实际上，我的意思是，我们确实会欣赏美。

So it's actually, I mean, we do appreciate beauty.

所以看到、闻到、听到、品尝到美好的事物，都会让我们感觉更好。

So seeing, smelling, you know, hearing, tasting nice things, it's gonna make us feel better.

但我们也只有在有能力这样做时才会这么做，而这些可能都是一些微小的事情。

But also we're only gonna be doing that if we have the luxury of being able to do that, then it can be such small things.

但更重要的是，这向你的大脑传递了一个信号：我很安全，因为我有时间读小说，有时间把音乐开大，在客厅里跳舞。

But also what it signals to your brain is I'm safe because I have time to read a novel or I have time to crank the music up and dance around my living room.

根据‘一起放电的神经通路会连接在一起’这一观点，我也在想，每次我看到树的时候，我都是安全的。

Through the frame of this idea that pathways that fire together, wire together, I was also thinking about every time I've seen a tree, I've been safe.

那么，是否树与安全之间存在某种关联呢？

So is there an association that trees are safety?

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

每次我身处大自然中

Every time I've been out in nature

嗯。

Yeah.

我在生理和心理上都感到安全。

I've been physiologically, psychologically safe.

所以现在是否因为这种神经关联，这些通路已经频繁激活并共同形成了连接？

So is it now the case that because there's that neurological association, the pathways have wide and fired together.

你知道的，你提到过大脑与身体的反应。

If I you know, you talk about the brain body response.

如果我再次让自己置身于那种情境中，嗯。

If I put myself in that situation again Mhmm.

它会向我的身体发出信号：我是安全的。

It will signal to my body that I'm safe.

嗯。

Yeah.

这正是神经可塑性。

It will That's neuroplasticity.

通过不断重复，给自己传递这样的信息：每次我身处树旁，我都是安全的。

It's repeating that and giving yourself the message that every time I'm around trees, I'm safe.

我感到安全。

I feel safe.

对每个人来说，情况不会相同。

It won't be the same for everyone.

我想，当我们住在洞穴里时，我们自然会做一些事情，比如晚上仰望星空、围着篝火跳舞、绘制洞穴壁画。

I would imagine that, again, when we lived in the cave, that we naturally did things like looked at the stars in the sky at night, danced around the fire, did cave paintings.

因此，这也深深植根于我们的心理之中。

So that's very wired into our psyche as well.

你知道，他们当时比我们更注重装饰自己。

You know, they would adorn themselves a lot more than we do.

所以，对美的欣赏一直存在，不仅来自自然，也来自我们的某些仪式和典礼。

So that appreciation of aesthetics has always been there, and not just from nature, from some of our rituals and ceremonies as well.

事实上，我在这场精神危机以及潜在的革命中得出的结论是：我们为实现这场革命所需的一切，自人类存在以来就一直存在于这个世界中。

And really, the conclusion that I've come to with this whole spiritual crisis and then the potential revolution is that all the things that we need to go through that revolution have always been in the world as long as we've existed.

这对我来说很美好，因为我们不必去创造一些前所未有的疯狂新事物。

And that to me is beautiful because it's not like we have to do some crazy new different things that we've never thought of before.

我的说法是，我们了解代际创伤、跨代创伤、表观遗传学，以及这些负面因素如何代代相传。

We can The way that I put it is we know about generational trauma and intergenerational trauma and epigenetics and how all these bad things can like come down the line.

但同时，也有许多美好与智慧依然存在，我们可以触及到它们。

But there's also a lot of beauty and wisdom that's there that we can have access to.

我们根本不需要重新发明轮子。

It's it's we don't have to, like, reinvent the wheel at all.

我们只需回归到曾经处于平和状态时所做的事情。

We can just go back to doing the things that we did when we were at peace.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

但要在我们当今的世界中做到这一点并不容易，因为我们已经建立了一个以智慧为名的社会，这个世界中

But it but that's not gonna that's not easy to do in the world we live in because we've built a society in wisdom a world where

是的。

Yeah.

我们生活在城市里，四周是白色的四面墙，独自一人。

We live in these, like, white four white walls in cities alone.

是的。

Yeah.

我们比以往任何时候都更孤独。

We're more lonely than ever before.

我们通过玻璃屏幕点餐。

We order our food using glass screens.

我们用色情内容替代亲密和连接。

We use pornography as a replacement for intimacy and connection.

我们用社交网络代替了社交。

We use social networks instead of socializing.

网络连接削弱了真实的连接。

Internet connection has reduced real connection.

你得彻底重新设计整个社会，看起来是这样。

How you'd have to, like, completely redesign society, it seems.

你可以从自己开始。

You can start with yourself.

我完全同意你刚才说的那些，那就是大多数人生活的方式，但我不是这样生活的。

So I completely agree with what all those things that you've just said is how most people live, but I don't live like that.

那你怎么生活呢，医生？

How do you live, doctor?

我积极地尽量多花时间在大自然中。

I I actively try to spend as much time in nature as I can.

我家里面和周围种了很多植物和花卉。

And I have for like a lot of like plants and flowers in and around my house.

我对我的朋友圈非常非常谨慎。

I am very, very careful about who's in my tribe.

所以是积极的、有意义的、深刻的、精神上的关系。

So it's positive, meaningful, deep, spiritual relationships.

我不使用色情内容或约会应用。

I don't use pornography or dating apps.

我只是按你的列表来。

I just go through your list.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我努力

And I, you know, I try

你觉得色情内容对大脑有什么影响？

What do you think of pornography on the brain?

我的意思是，大脑中最基本的两种驱动力是性欲和食欲。

I mean, the two most basic drives in the brain are sex and food.

所以它的潜在影响非常大。

So the potential impact is is huge.

我同意你的观点，越来越多的情况下，它在现实生活中造成了男女之间的巨大隔阂，这真的很令人难过。

I agree with you that increasingly, it has created a big disconnect between men and women in real life, which is really sad.

这种脱节具体是指什么？

What what is that disconnect?

我认为，色情内容严重扭曲了人们对女性应有或能够成为怎样的理想形象。

I think that the ideal of what a woman has to be or can be is very distorted by pornography.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得，如果我把朋友关于约会应用的种种说法和这一点结合起来看，人们对待他人的态度真的发生了巨大变化。

I think if I put together, you know, what I hear from my friends about dating apps with that, that the way that people feel they can treat others has really, really changed.

而且我认为，自疫情以来，这种趋势进一步加剧了。

And I think this has accelerated since the pandemic as well.

因此，人们对自身言行给他人带来的后果缺乏真正的同理心。

So there's real lack of empathy for the consequences of your actions and comments on other people.

我认为色情内容加剧了这一点，因为它改变了男性看待女性的方式。

And I think pornography contributes to that because it changes the way that men view women.

我认为这对女性的影响在于，她们必须长得什么样、需要做多少整容手术、在亲密关系中必须准备好做些什么。

I think the impact on women in terms of what you have to look like, like how much plastic surgery you have to have, what you've gotta be prepared to, like, do in an intimate relationship.

或者，更准确地说，我最大的担忧是，即使在没有建立亲密关系的情况下，你也被期望去做些什么。

Or or actually, the biggest issue I would have is what you're expected to do when you're not even in an intimate relationship.

当关系变得更像一种交易时，规则也发生了变化——现在我经常听到的是，‘我们已经约会了三四次甚至五次了。’

Just when it becomes more of a transaction, when the rules have changed about, again, what I hear now very commonly is, oh, we've been on three or four or five dates or whatever it is.

这一定意味着，你知道的，该进入下一阶段了。

That must mean, you know, move to the next level kind of thing.

所以我认为，回到真正尊重的关系，对他人多一些同理心，关心你生活中可能比你更孤独的人。

So I think that going back to having, like, really respectful relationships, having a lot of empathy for other looking out for the people in your life that might be lonelier than you.

当我说，你知道的，我绝对不把手机带进卧室，但我说限制屏幕时间，这其实很难，因为我们所有人都用屏幕工作和与朋友沟通。

When I say, you know, I mean, I absolutely do not have my phone in my bedroom, but when I say limit screen time, that is a difficult one because we all use our screens for work and to communicate with our friends.

但有研究表明，你在线上与朋友交流的时间与面对面交流的时间相比，会对你的社交舒适度和同理心产生各种影响。

But there are studies that show the amount of time you spend even communicating with friends online versus face to face has all sorts of impacts in terms of how socially comfortable you are, how empathic you are.

它甚至会对青少年的身体畸形认知产生巨大影响。

It can even have on teenagers, a really big impact on body dysmorphism.

所以，只要你也花大量时间与人面对面相处，在网上花很多时间是可以的。

So it's fine to actually spend quite a lot of time online, as long as you are also spending a lot of time with people face to face.

你刚才提到的一点是关于限制你朋友圈的范围。

One of the things you said there was about limiting who's in your tribe.

为什么这一点很重要？

Why is that important?

为什么避免和某些人待在一起，而多花时间与其他人相处很重要？

Why is it important to not hang around with certain people and spend more time with other people?

从神经学的角度来看，这关系到我们的健康、心态、结果以及神经可塑性。

From, like, a neurological perspective in terms of our health and our outlooks and our outcomes and neuroplasticity.

那么，让我们稍微回溯一下你之前搜索的问题：压力会传染吗？

So if we just, like, link this back a little bit to the question that you Googled, which is, is stress contagious?

还有一个可以深入探讨的方向，那就是社会性传染。

Then there's another rabbit hole you could go down, which would be about social contagion.

有统计数据表明，在你的社交圈中，如果有人离婚，你在接下来一年内离婚的可能性也会增加。

So there are statistics that show that in your social group, if someone gets divorced, you're more likely to get divorced in the next year.

如果你社交圈中有人肥胖，你也更有可能变得肥胖。

If someone in your social group is obese, you are more likely to become obese.

我不是在说，因为别人离婚了或者发胖了就不要和他们做朋友，我更多指的是态度方面的问题。

Now, I'm not absolutely not saying don't be friends with someone because they got divorced or they put on weight, but I'm talking more about the attitudinal stuff.

比如，你如何对待他人，你有多善良、多慷慨、多开放地谈论直觉或灵性。

So the, you know, how you treat other people, how kind you are, how generous you are, how open you are to conversations about intuition or spirituality.

基本上，你会遇到那些心理水平与你相似的人。

Basically, you meet people who are at a similar psychological level to you.

而我们都在不断自我提升，希望如此。

And so we're always working on ourselves, hopefully.

如果你确实在成长，那你希望和那些也在成长、愿意接受挑战、乐于学习、对探索灵性感兴趣、关心自己和他人心理健康的人在一起。

And you wanna be with people If you are, then you wanna be with people who are growing too, who are open challenge, who are learning, who are interested in exploring spirituality, who care about their mental health and other people's mental health.

所以，这其实关乎建立一个信任圈，知道你有支持，但同样，如果你做了真正不妥的事，也会有人告诉你。

So it's really about having this circle of trust and knowing that you've got support, but equally that if you do something that's really not okay, that somebody's gonna tell you.

你之前提到了‘神经可塑性’这个词。

You mentioned the word earlier neuroplasticity.

它是什么意思？

What is it?

为什么这很重要？

Why did it matter?

而且，从我之前看你的工作来看，你在职业生涯中对这个话题有了一次顿悟，你意识到，就像大多数人一样，你甚至根本没觉得这回事存在。

And I think from looking at your work previously, you had a bit of an epiphany on this subject matter in your career where you realized that, you know, you probably like most most people don't even think it's a thing.

他们认为一旦长大成人，性格就定型了，但听起来在你职业生涯的某个时刻，你突然意识到神经可塑性的重要性和可能性。

They don't think it's They think that once you grow up, you're set in your ways, but it sounds like there was an epiphany at some point in your career where you realized the importance and the possibilities that neuroplasticity presented.

首先，我们必须说，当我上医学院并攻读神经科学博士学位时，我们根本不知道神经可塑性。

Well, we have to start by saying that when I was at medical school and doing my PhD in neuroscience, we did not know about neuroplasticity.

所以我们当时绝对认为，一旦身体停止生长，大脑的一切就固定不变了，你无法改变自己的智力，无法学会以不同方式管理情绪，学习新事物也会困难得多。

So we absolutely thought that when you physically stopped growing, that everything in your brain was set for the rest of your life, that you couldn't change your intelligence, you couldn't learn to manage your emotions differently, that it would be much harder to learn new things.

我们现在知道的是，大脑会持续生长和变化，直到我们大约25岁。

What we know now is that the brain is actively growing and changing till we're about 25.

操。

Fuck.

我错过了。

I missed it.

不，你没有。

No, you didn't.

你没有错过。

You didn't miss it.

你没有。

You didn't

错过。

miss it.

我31岁了。

I'm 31.

我知道我看起来像24岁，但是

I know I looked 24, but

你没有错过，你真的没有错过。

You didn't you didn't miss it.

从25岁到65岁，我认为甚至更久以后，如果你什么都不做来改变你的大脑，它就会趋于停滞。

So from 25 to 65, and I would say even beyond now, if you don't do anything to change your brain, it will tend to plateau.

所以，你知道，如果你从事一份每天做相同事情的工作，而且你已经很擅长了，你可能会这样一直持续到老。

So, you know, if you're in a job where you do same thing every day, and you're pretty good at it, you could stay like that for the rest of your life.

这对有些人来说是可以接受的。

And that is fine for some people.

如果你做的一些事情足够有挑战性，能迫使你的大脑发生变化，那么你基本上可以学会很多新东西，同时获得大脑的全面益处。

If you do things that are intense enough to force your brain to change, then you can basically, you know, learn lots of new things, but also get what we call global benefits in your brain.

所以，假设你决定学习一门新语言。

So let's say you decided to learn a new language.

也许你会学葡萄牙语或法语。

Maybe you'd learn Portuguese or French.

你跟她谈过了吗？

Have you spoken to her?

你跟她谈过了吗？

Have you spoken to her?

没有。

No.

这感觉就像，当有人对你说些什么时，你总觉得他们已经在你背后讨论过了，因为说得太准了。

That just felt very it feels like you know, when someone says something to you and it feels like they've already had a conversation behind your back because it's so on the money.

没有。

No.

今年我其实和她有个约定，我要在年底前学会葡萄牙语，现在都九月了。

I actually have a deal with her this year that I'd learn Portuguese by the end of the year and win September now.

但我只会六个单词。

And I know six words.

所以这感觉有点戳中我了。

So that just felt a little bit close to home.

那我们继续吧。

So let's move on.

这真是太好了。

So so that's great.

所以你确实有理由学一门或两门语言。

So you have actually a reason to learn one or two languages.