顶尖肢体语言与行为专家：军队使用的操控技巧！5个迹象表明有人在对你撒谎！这让你变得不讨人喜欢——蔡斯·休斯

而我听到这些声音时，会把它们当作虚构的，有自信的人也是这样。

And I hear them or somebody with confidence hears them as fiction.

他们听的其实是同一件事。

They're both listening to the same thing.

所以打个比方，假设你和我要去吃午饭，我对你说：史蒂文，我去你家接你。

So imagine, like, as a quick story, if you and I were going to lunch, and I said, Steven, I'm going to come pick you up.

停在你家门前。

Pull up in front of your house.

你坐上副驾驶座。

You jump in the passenger side.

我们出发了，我正在听一本关于核弹爆炸的有声书。

We're heading off, and I'm listening to an audiobook about a nuclear bomb going off.

但在这本有声书里，有一个关于核弹爆炸的虚假新闻报道。

But it's inside the audiobook, there's a fake news report about a nuclear bomb going off.

比如说，那是一个假的BBC广播之类的。

Let's say it's a pretend BBC broadcast or something that's going off.

这只是有声书里的内容。

That it's in the audiobook.

我们开始开车。

We start driving.

我很放松。

I'm relaxed.

我专注于路况。

I'm focused on the road.

我享受着正在做的事情。

I'm enjoying what I'm doing.

你的心率上升了。

Your heart rate's increased.

你感到害怕。

You're fearful.

你的杏仁核正在活跃。

Your amygdala's firing off.

你正处于一种可怕的状态，心里想着：天啊，我的家人会怎么样？

You're in this horrible state of like, oh my god, what's going happen to my family?

我们俩听到的是完全相同的广播。

We're both hearing the exact same broadcast.

我们在同一时间听同样的说话者。

We're listening to the same speakers at the same time.

但我知道我听的是虚构内容，而你却担心这是真的。

But I know that I'm hearing fiction, and you are worried that it's truth.

我并不是想拿你当这个例子，但这是描述这种情况最简单的方式。

I don't mean to use you as that example, but that's the easiest way to describe it.

然后从根本上改变你对那个声音的感知方式。

And then just fundamentally changing how you hear that voice.

在九成甚至十成的情况下，那个声音都是在你八九岁时形成的。

And nine times, I think 10 times out of 10, that voice was developed when you were eight or nine.

那个孩子当时做了什么？

What did that kid do?

我会向任何一个客户提出这个问题。

And this is what I would ask any of the clients.

那个孩子做了什么来交朋友或维持友谊？

What did that kid do to make friends or keep them?

所以，朋友是为了感到安全。

So friends, to feel safe.

现在我们处于安全之中。

Now we're in the safety.

我是怎么感到安全的？

Like, how did I get to feel safe?

我做了什么来获得奖励？

And what did I do to earn rewards?

对一些人来说，那可能是认可。

And for some people, that might be recognition.

对那些人生起步艰难的孩子来说，水或食物可能就是他们的奖励。

For other kids who had a bad start in life, that might be water or food might have been a reward for those kids.

所以我们小时候维持或赢得朋友的方式、获得奖励的方式，以及感受到安全所需采取的行为，都会在我们的大脑中发展成一些后台运行的小程序，持续影响着我们的成年生活。

So the way that we keep or earn friends, the way that we get rewards as a child, and the way that we feel what we have to do to feel safe, those develop as little apps in our brain that run-in the background of our adult lives all the time.

而通常情况下，这些方式在我们小时候是有效的。

And we typically, as a kid, they're great.

它们可能曾保护了我们的安全。

They might have kept us safe.

它们可能曾让我们活了下来。

They might have kept us alive.

它们可能曾让我们留在这些社交圈里，但我却会对别人态度恶劣，以免他们靠近我。

They might have held us inside of these social circles, but I'm gonna be a dick to people so that they don't get close to me.

或者我会对父母这样的权威人物阿谀奉承，以换取认可和赞美。

Or I'm gonna kiss up to authority figures like mom and dad so I'll get some recognition and praise.

这些行为会成为我们不知不觉、未经同意、毫无意识地带入成年生活的程序。

And that becomes an app that we carry into adulthood without knowing it, without our consent, without our awareness.

那个小孩子把这些东西带进了成年生活，只是稍作调整。

That little kid brings these things into adulthood, and they just modify.

所以我从不得不讨好一个自恋的母亲，变成了每天都要拍老板的马屁。

So I go from having to kiss up to a narcissistic mother to I'm going to kiss the boss's ass every single day.

大家都叫我办公室马屁精。

And everybody knows me as the office kiss ass.

这些行为只是从童年到成年的简单延续。

So they just translate from child to adult behavior.

如果我能开始理解这一点，就能帮助那个人认识到改变生活的根本方式。

And if I can start understanding that, then I can start getting that person to understand the fundamental way to change their life.

我会让他们把这些话公开说出来，目的是让他们感到愤怒。

And I make them put those phrases out in the open to where it's so I want them to be pissed off.

我会让他们把桌面壁纸设为：我不配拥有金钱。

So I will make them get a desktop wallpaper that says, I don't deserve money.

金钱是给别人的。

Money is for other people.

只是为了让他们的大脑经常意识到这种想法有多荒谬，并把它贴在励志海报上。

Just to make their brains see how stupid it is on a regular basis and put it on a motivational poster.

而这一部分的第二点是，任何自信的人都对积极结果有着普遍的预期。

And the second part of that is anybody who's confident has a generalized expectation of positive outcomes.

不是具体的，而是觉得事情总会好起来。

Not specific, but things are going to be fine.

事情总会好起来的。

Things are gonna be fine.

所以，如果我能做到这一点，你就能从根本上改变一个人的生活。

So if I can do that, you can fundamentally change someone's life.

因此，最后一点，它引向了自律：我需要让你与未来的自己建立关系，因为生活中发生的一切都与我们的哺乳动物大脑有关，也就是我们大脑的这部分较低层级，它不懂英语。

So the final point of that, which leads into discipline, is I need to get you to form a relationship with your future self Because everything that goes on in our life has to do with our mammalian brain, this lower part of our brain here, and it doesn't speak English.

没有任何积极的自我暗示能够穿透这道屏障。

There's no affirmation that's going to penetrate that barrier.

没有任何一句墙上的格言或PPT幻灯片能从根本上改变你的行为。

There's no, like, I'm going to read a quote on a wall or a PowerPoint slide that's going to fundamentally change behavior.

你必须改变那个动物性部分——大脑中的哺乳动物部分。

You have to change the animal, the mammalian part of the brain.

所以我问所有我训练的人一个问题：我要怎么教一条狗做这件事？

So the question I ask everybody that I'm training is, how would I teach it to a dog?

我要怎么展示我的目标？

How would I show my goals?

如果我为明年设定目标，我要怎么向一条狗展示这些目标？

If I'm setting goals for next year, how would I show that to a dog?

因为我必须把事情简化到哺乳动物能理解的程度。

Because I have to get it down to a mammal.

所以最快的方法是通过视觉手段。

So the fastest way to do that is through visual means.

所以我让所有客户下载这个应用程序。

So I have all of my clients download this app.

我想不起它的名字了。

I can't remember the name of it.

可能有一百个这样的应用。

There's probably 100.

但这样会让你看起来像95岁。

But it makes you look like 95.

是的。

Yeah.

而且你全身都是皱纹。

And you're just covered in wrinkles.

它会让你的头发掉得很多。

It makes a lot of your hair kind of go away.

我会把它们打印出来，贴得到处都是，就持续几周。

And I make them printed out and put it everywhere just for a couple of weeks.

现在我们开始与未来的自己建立一种原始哺乳动物般的心灵联系，这会改变我的饮食方式、花钱习惯、可能还会改变我睡觉的时间、饮酒量，最重要的是我从哪里获取多巴胺。

And now we start developing a mental mammalian relationship with our future self, which changes how I eat, changes how I spend money, it changes maybe what time I go to bed, how much alcohol I drink, and mostly where I'm getting my dopamine from.

如果我画一张我获取多巴胺的所有来源的地图，而其中超过50%来自酒精、色情内容，或者所有这些我不想要的东西，那时你就必须非常非常诚实地面对自己：在我的生活中，我应该从哪里获得健康的多巴胺？

If I draw a map of everywhere I'm getting my dopamine from, and more than 50% of it is on alcohol or porn or all of these things that I don't want, you have to be very, very honest with yourself at that point of where do I need to get dopamine in front of them in my life?

每一个我认识的成功人士，都有一个良好的多巴胺来源地图。

And successful people, every single successful person that I've ever met has a good dopamine map.

所以他们从好的来源获得多巴胺，而不是坏的来源。

So they they get dopamine from good sources instead of bad ones.

自律和自信之间有关系吗？

And is there a relationship between discipline and confidence?

我认为确实如此。

I think so very much.

假设你和我坐在机场里，比如说我们在亚特兰大机场，我问你，而你又不是行为分析专家，据我所知。

It's like if if you and I were sitting in an airport together, let's say we're sitting in Atlanta Airport, and I just asked you if and you're not a behavior profiler, as far as I know.

但我对你说：史蒂文，环顾四周，找一个有自律的人。

But I said, Steven, look around and find somebody that's disciplined.

你只需要五秒钟就能找到，因为我们不需要去分析别人。

It would take you five seconds because we don't need to to profile people.

这是一种你有意注意到的自然直觉，但我们其实一直在无意识中捕捉到这种信号。

That's a natural thing that you picked up on it on purpose, but we pick up on it unconsciously all the time.

拥有这种程度的自律会自动提升我们的自信，因为我们知道别人会注意到这一点，同时我们也清楚，自己比与之交谈或日常接触的人更掌控自我。

So having that level of discipline elevates our level of confidence automatically because we know that other people are going to pick up on it, but we also know I'm moving up, and I'm probably more in control of myself than the person that I'm talking to or the people that I'm dealing with regularly.

我们镜头外的生活方式会体现在我们的自信中。

So how we live off camera is coming through in our confidence.

这正是我们之前谈到的：环境、时间和外表。

That's the exact thing that we were talking about, that environment, time, appearance.

如果我能以我希望别人在生活中的每个角落看待我的方式来生活，我的自信就会自然增长。

And if I can live off camera the same way that I want to be perceived by everybody in my life, my confidence already starts to grow.

你还提到享受也是五个要素之一。

And you said enjoyment as well was one of the five.

是的。

Yeah.

为什么享受这么重要？

Why is enjoyment important?

我后来加上了这一点。

I added it on there.

花了一些时间，但我回顾了我曾经训练过的每一个人。

It took a while, but I walked through everybody I've ever trained.

如果你观察那些天生具有领导力并拥有那种权威感的人，他们并不是只顾着当下享乐，而是平静地享受此刻正在发生的一切。

And if you look at everyone who is a natural leader and has that level of authority, they're not just partying in the moment, but just in calmly enjoying what is happening now.

所以你或许可以称之为正念。

So maybe you could call it mindfulness.

但我认为，享受和处于享受状态这一特质，是人类最具吸引力的特质。

But I think just the trait of enjoyment and being in enjoyment is the most magnetic human trait that there is.

关于观察，也就是你成功或失败三角模型的第二部分，我需要了解什么？

What do I need to know about observation, which is the second part of your triangle to success or failure?

观察，就是能够读懂一个场合的氛围。

Observation, being able to read a room.

有可能读懂一个场合的氛围吗？

Is it possible to be able to read a room?

是的。

Yeah.

我该怎样去读懂一个场合的氛围？

How would I go about reading a room?

好的。

Okay.

所以，如果你在观察一个公共区域，是的。

So if if you're reading like a public area Yeah.

让我们回到机场的例子吧。

Let's go back to the airport maybe.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我在一个公共区域，我特别关注房间里移动最慢的人。

If I'm in a public area, I really wanna pay attention to the slowest moving person in the room.

我想留意谁比其他人更有自信。

I want to pay attention to who is more confident than the other person.

这通常又回到了速度的问题上。

And that's typically going back to speed.

如果我能很好地读懂他人，我也会与他们保持大量眼神交流。

And if I'm reading other people well, I'm also making a lot of eye contact with them.

所以，这也是快速读懂他人的一种方式，就是观察他们眨眼的频率。

So that's also one of the fastest ways to get a read on another human being, is how often they're blinking.

如果一个人眨眼很快，这表明他压力很大。

And if a person is blinking fast, it's a sign of high stress.

如果他们眨眼非常缓慢，这表明他们很专注。

If they're blinking really slow, it's a sign of focus.

所以这并不总是代表放松。

So it's not always relaxation.

所以，如果我在审讯室或商业谈判中与一个心理变态者交谈，而他们非常专注于猎物——我们称之为‘猎物专注’，因为他们打算操纵某人。

So if I talk to a psychopath in an interrogation room or in a business negotiation, and they're very focused on prey, so we call that a prey focus, because they're going to manipulate somebody.

他们的眨眼频率几乎会接近零。

Their blink rate will almost be a zero.

如果我与一个在说谎的人交谈，他们的眨眼频率可能会飙升到每分钟75到80次，而我们甚至察觉不到。

If I talk to somebody who's being deceptive, their blink rate can go up to like a 75, 80 without us even knowing it.

所以眨眼频率如此可靠的原因之一，是因为它是无意识的。

So one of the reasons that blink rate is so reliable is that it's unconscious.

我们并没有意识到眨眼频率的变化，而且也无法很好地主动控制它。

We don't realize the shifts in blink rate, and we don't manually control it very well.

如果我只需要教别人一件事，那就不必去数每分钟眨眼多少次，只要在对话中，我一开始就会问：眨眼频率正常吗？

And if all that I would ever need to teach somebody you don't have to count or know how many times per minute it's going on is if I'm in a conversation, I'm going to start the conversation and say, is the blink rate normal?

看起来是快了吗？

Does it look fast?

看起来是慢了吗？

Does it look slow?

因此，我在观察人类行为时，真正关注的是变化，持续的变化。

So what I'm really looking for in human behavior are changes, changes.

所以，如果我在台上演讲，比如做一场主题发言，环视全场与观众进行眼神交流时，如果发现观众的眨眼频率增加，我就知道必须立刻更换话题。

So if I'm on stage, you know, if I'm let's say I'm doing a keynote, and across the room, I'm making eye contact with all these people, and I start seeing an increase in audience blink rate, I know I need to change the subject or change the topic right away.

所以你是要盯着某一个人看吗？

So would you be looking at one particular person?

不用。

No.

所以一般来说

So Generally

是的

Yeah.

所以我会观察所有这些眼睛，并假装自己在看一个人。

So I would look at all of these eyes and pretend like I'm looking at one human.

好的。

Okay.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

获取平均值，是的。

Getting an average of the Yeah.

所以当我环顾四周时，我看到了多少次眨眼？

So as I'm looking around, how many blinks do I see?

我会假装那是一只人眼。

And I'm gonna pretend as if that was one human eye.

好的。

Okay.

当你的眼睑闭合频率降低时，说明人们更加专注。

So when you get a lower blink rate, people are paying more attention.

是的。

Yeah.

你做得很好。

You're doing a great job.

你可以去参加这些路演会议，创业者会上台向天使投资人等推介项目，比如在华盛顿，你能通过眨眼频率来判断谁最感兴趣吗？

And you can I go to these pitch meetings where these entrepreneurs will go up and pitch these angel investors and stuff like that up in Washington, and you can measure who will pitch based on blink rate?

当你看到眨眼频率下降时，那就是房间里最感兴趣的人。

You see a blink rate drop, that is the most interested person in the room.

我们在陪审团遴选时也用同样的方法。

We do the same thing with jury selection.

这非常可靠。

It's so reliable.

你还会读到一些文章，讲有人把呼吸集中在胸口。

And you read these articles about someone breathing into their chest.

用周边视觉做到这一点需要一段时间，因为我教过不少人，他们跟人交谈时会一直盯着对方的胸口。

It takes a while to get good at that with your peripheral vision, because I've taught it to people, and they would spend a conversation with someone staring at their chest.

尤其是当你跟女性交谈时，这绝对是个糟糕的做法。

And especially if you're talking to a woman, it's a bad idea.

所以眨眼频率非常可靠。

So blink rate is incredibly reliable.

因此，总结一下这项技能，是的。

So to recap that skill Yeah.

我开始一段对话。

I start a conversation.

看起来正常吗？

Does it look pretty normal?

是很快，还是有点慢？

Is it pretty fast or or kind of slow?

然后我会观察变化，我在这个房间里看的全部就是什么在变化。

Then I'm gonna look for changes, and that's all I'm looking for in a room of people is what's changing.

所以70%是具有欺骗性的，而0%则是精神病态者。

So 70 is deceptive, and zero is psychopath.

70%代表压力。

70 is stress.

并不总是具有欺骗性。

Not always deceptive.

好的。

Okay.

而0%基本上就是精神病态者。

And zero is psychopath, basically.

0%可能是精神病态者。

Zero might be psychopath.

语境是第二个'c'。

Context is the second letter c.

在行为分析中，我们谈论五个C。

There's five c's that we talk about in behavior profiling.

首先是变化，然后是情境。

So change, then context.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

所以现在，比如有人交叉了双臂，你上网查一下，会说这是防御、隐瞒、封闭的表现，看到所有这些解读。

So now, like, somebody just crossed their arms, you read the Internet, it says it's being defensive, withholding, closed off, see all that stuff.

但如果天气冷得要命呢？

Well, what if it's freezing cold?

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们现在有了接触。

So now we have contact.

这真有意思。

So interesting.

我上一次对话中真的发生了这种情况。

That actually happened in my last conversation.

我尽量不封闭自己的身体，嗯。

I am I try not to close off my body Mhmm.

我这样做是因为有时候我的本能反应就是这样。

When I'm doing this because some sometimes my natural reaction is to go go like this.

而有时候，特别是这里到了晚上，没有风扇也没有暖气时，我就会这样。

And then sometimes, especially in here when it gets later and we didn't have the fan and the heater, I would go like this.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时在想，但这样做对客人来说很不礼貌。

And what I'm if, like, the I was thinking, but this is rude.

这对客人来说很无礼。

It gets rude to the guest.

但我看了看自己的手臂，发现满是鸡皮疙瘩，于是意识到这就是情境的影响。

But I looked at my arms, and I had these, like, massive goosebumps, and I was like, that's the context.

是的。

Yeah.

实际情况是我快冻僵了。

The context is I'm fucking freezing.

是的。

Yeah.

但对客人来说，看起来我会这样做。

But to the guest, it would look like I'm going like this.

是的。

Yeah.

你懂的？

You know?

所以这就是为什么我觉得肢体语言如此微妙。

So this is why body language is so delicate, I think.

它确实很微妙。

It is delicate.

人们很难对它进行同行评审的研究，因为有上百万个变量。

And it's so hard to for people to do peer reviewed research on it because there's a million variables.

这就像是说，为什么罗杰·费德勒能在没有同行评审研究支持他做法的情况下赢得网球比赛呢？

It's like saying, well, why should Roger Federer win a tennis match when he doesn't have any peer reviewed studies to back up what he's doing?

是的。

Yeah.

肢体语言也是同样的道理，因为他们做的都是审讯研究。

It's the same thing with body language because they're doing interrogation research.

所以他们认为，一个拿到午餐券的大学生走进来，假装关于一只鸭子撒谎，和一个在战斗中被俘、连续几天睡眠剥夺、头上套着黑布、被拖进审讯室的人，他们的行为是完全一样的。

So they're saying that a college kid who gets a lunch voucher and walks in and pretends to lie about a duck is exactly the same as someone who's been captured in combat, sleep deprived for a few days, has a black hood over their head, they're drug into an interrogation room.

他们声称这些行为是相同的。

They're saying those behaviors are identical.

然后还有关于说谎与不说谎的同行评审研究。

Then there's the peer reviewed research on lying and not lying.

你无法如此精确地复制人类的行为。

You cannot replicate human behavior that well.

人们把它当作一种药物来对待，好像我给某人吃一片泰诺，就能测量出所有反应一样。

And people treat it like it's a pharmaceutical, like I can put a Tylenol in somebody and I can measure all these responses.

但这种东西并不能像那样直接录入电子表格。

And it doesn't really go into a spreadsheet like that.

那里有很多出色的研究，但我要说，要如此完美地复制所有这些情况实在太难了。

And there's a lot of great research out there, but I'd say it's just so incredibly hard to replicate everything in in with perfection like that.

那么第一个C是什么？

So what was the first c?

第一个C是改变。

First c is change.

我想寻找

I wanna look for

然后你想要关注情境。

a And then you wanna look at context.

还有第三个C吗？

Is there a third c?

那应该是集群。

That would be clusters.

集群。

Clusters.

所以你会读到一些文章，说某人看起来怎样或做某事可能是欺骗性的。

So then you read articles that say someone looks a certain way or does a certain thing that might be deceptive.

我最常听到的例子是，有人摸自己的鼻子。

Like, the most common one I hear is someone touches their nose.

所以有人摸鼻子可能是在撒谎。

So someone touching their nose might be being deceptive.

如果你只看到一个行为，我几乎可以说这几乎没有任何意义。

If you're just seeing one thing, I would say that almost never means anything.

你需要寻找一组行为模式。

You want to look for a cluster of behavior.

于是他们开始变得紧张，这是一种变化。

So they started getting nervous, which is a change.

这是因为我在询问他们周三晚上在哪里。

It's because I'm asking about where they were on Wednesday night.

这就是背景。

There's the context.

当他们变得紧张时，还用手保护生殖器并舔嘴唇，这是一种我们常见的卫生动作。

And while they were getting nervous, they also started protecting their genitals with their hands and licking their lips, which is a hygienic gesture that we do.

现在，我在适当的背景下观察到了变化，并且出现了一组行为模式。

So now I have a change within the context that's appropriate, and there's a cluster of behavior.

之后，我会考虑文化因素。

After that, I screen through culture.

这个人所处的文化或背景中，是否有某种原因导致他们做出这样的行为？

Is there some part of this person's culture or background that makes them do that?

比如，我曾和一个年轻人在一起。

Like, I was with a young person.

我们正在观看一名巴基斯坦人接受审问。

We were watching a Pakistani person get interrogated.

你知道在世界那个地区，人们常常会那样摇头

And you know how you commonly see that kind of head shake

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

在那个地区。

In that region of the world.

他说，哦，他一边说‘是’一边摇头。

And he said, oh, he's shaking his head while he's saying yes.

这时候我们就深入到那个层面了。

I'm like, now we get down to that sea.

这就是文化，它排除了这种行为或使其失效。

This is culture, which rules out that behavior or gets rid of it.

最后，列表上最不重要的就是核对清单。

And finally, the least important thing on that list is the checklist.

所谓核对清单，是指一份已知可能与欺骗相关的动作清单。

And by checklist, I mean there is a list of known behaviors that are likely to be deception.

如果你研究肢体语言，你处理的是可能性。

And if you're in body language, you deal in likelihood.

我们只处理可能性。

That's all we deal in.

有些人说他们对某些事情有100%的把握，但我持怀疑态度。

Some people say they're 100% sure on stuff, and I'm skeptical.

但我们处理的是可能性。

But we deal in likelihood.

所以我们应该始终以这种方式来分析。

So we should always process in that.

因此，如果一个人舔嘴唇或以某种方式移动，即使这在清单上，也不意味着他就是在欺骗。

So if someone licking their lips or moving a certain way, if it's in on a checklist does not mean that it's deceptive.

是的。

Mhmm.

但如果他们一直这样做呢？

Because what if they do it all the time?

那么我们就没有任何变化了。

Then we don't have a change.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我在想我年轻时做过的一些事，有一段时间，不知为什么，我总是这样。

Was thinking about things I used to do when I was younger, and there was just a period of my life where, for some bizarre reason, I used to go like this.

我那时经常这么做。

I used to do all the time.

打勾？

Tick?

这简直就像一个习惯性动作。

It was almost like a tick.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的有点奇怪。

It's almost really weird.

我觉得这么说听起来可能特别疯狂，但我最好的朋友之一，发型就像窗帘一样。

I think this sounds like a really crazy thing to say, but one of my best friends had, like, curtains, like, the haircut curtains.

好吧。

Okay.

他经常甩动它，而我几乎就像是通过他间接地学会了这种甩动动作。

And he used to flick it, and I almost, like, vicariously picked up the, like, flicking from him.

我那时候总是这么做。

I'd go like that all the time.

但我只是在想，如果有人看到我这样做，他们会认为这是一种行为表现，而实际上这只不过是我年轻时持续了大约两年的一个奇怪习惯，后来就消失了。

But I was just thinking if someone saw me doing that, they would perceive that as some form of behavior, whereas it was just this weird thing that lasted for, like, two years when I was younger and then went away.

是的。

Yeah.

但你一直这么做吗？

But did you do it all the time?

我只是做了，哦，我不知道。

I just did it I oh, I don't know.

我觉得我只是随机地做。

I felt like I just did it randomly.

但那并不会是一种改变。

But that that wouldn't be a change

好的。

Okay.

如果我第一次见你的话。

If I if I was meeting you.

是的。

Yeah.

你曾经在《龙穴》节目里待了一段时间。

And you were on the Dragon's Den for a while.

我到现在还在。

Still am.

是的。

Yeah.

人们向你推销各种想法。

And people pitch you

是的。

Yeah.

各种各样的点子。

All kinds of ideas.

只要有人上过这个节目，或者具备与你相似的技能，你就能看穿很多人。

That just having somebody on the show or just having those skills with you, you could see through a lot of those people.

他们是否诚实地推销自己的项目，是否对自己所推销的内容充满信心。

And whether or not they're being honest about what they're pitching, they're confident about what they're pitching.

你可以看看《鲨鱼坦克》这样的节目，我随便看一集《鲨鱼坦克》，就能看出谁眨眼最少。

And you could look at a show like Shark Tank, and I can watch any episode of Shark Tank and look who's blinking the least.

他们99%的时间会第一个出价，因为他们最专注于正在发生的事情。

They're going to be the first to make an offer 99% of the time because they're the most focused on what's going on.

他们个人非常投入。

Personally invested.

所以这很有趣，你只需要观察一两个细节，就能预测出压力或专注程度。

So that's fascinating, is that you could just look at one or two things and predict stress or focus.

如果你能掌握这一点，哪怕只带走这一个技巧，那也将是一种超能力。

And just being able to do that, if you just took that one thing away from this, that would be a superpower.

因为我坐在这里接待嘉宾，他们讲述自己的人生故事，我常常能发现一些行为模式。

Because I sit here with guests, right, and they talk about their life stories and stuff, and I often see some patterns of behavior.

是的。

Yeah.

特别是当你问到某人童年或生活中某个敏感话题时，他们会突然封闭自己。

Specifically, like, closing up when you ask someone something about their childhood or a specific sensitive subject in their life.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

你往往会看到一些自我安慰的行为，某种程度上是这样。

You tend to see, like, self I call it, like, self soothing behavior to some degree.

所以这很难。

So it's difficult.

有趣的是，我们现在都成了业余的肢体语言专家。

And it's funny because we we're all, like, amateur body language experts now.

是的。

Yeah.

因为网上有很多内容教人识别这些信号。

Because there's been a lot of stuff online saying, spot this.

他们有没有摸鼻子之类的？

Did they touch their nose, etcetera?

所以这也可能有危险。

So it can also be dangerous.

确实可以。

It can.

而且它会让我们产生这种想法：哦，我看到过一件事。

And it can give us these, like, oh, I saw this one thing.

我再也不和那个人做生意了。

I'm never doing business with that guy.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，他谈论那件事的时候，挠了三次鼻子。

And, like, he scratched his nose three times while he was talking about that.

嗯，他是在看他的公文包。

Well, he's look in his briefcase.

里面放着抗过敏药。

He's got allergy medication in there.

所以他才挠鼻子。

He's scratching his nose.

季节刚刚变了。

The season just changed.

现在是春天。

It's springtime.

他进来时鼻子是红的，所以在进门之前已经挠了三十分钟了。

His nose is red when he came in, so he's been scratching it for thirty minutes before he walked in the door.

所以我们开始意识到，我看到的不是变化。

So now we we start to realize I'm not seeing a change.

我看到的是重复的行为。

I'm seeing something that was repetitive.

沟通是成功或失败三角形中的第三个要素。

And communication is the third one in the triangle to success or failure.

沟通。

Communication.

到目前为止，我得出的结论是，说话慢代表更高的权威。

So what I've got so far is talking slow is higher authority.

是的

Yeah.

如果我想成为一名出色的沟通者，还有哪些方面是我应该考虑的？

Is there anything else that if I wanna be a master communicator, I should be thinking about?

当然。

Absolutely.

在沟通方面，善于讲故事非常好，现在有成千上万的播客可以教人这一点。

When it comes to communication, a, being a good storyteller is great, and there's a million podcasts out there that can teach somebody that.

但关键在于你是否能与你面前的这个人有效沟通

But it comes down to whether or not you can speak to the person that you are in front of

嗯。

Mhmm.

并理解对方是什么样的人。

And understanding what kind of person that is.

我通常通过人们从他人那里需要什么，将人分为六类。

And there's a few ways that I identify I I segregate people into six groups, and that's through what do they need from other people.

那么，我在社交上需要什么样的东西呢？

So what kind of things do I need socially?

这些包括重要性，

And these are significance,

认可，

acceptance,

赞同、智慧、同情和力量。

approval, intelligence, pity, and strengthpower.

在每一次对话中，如果你问别人关于他们自己的事，他们就会展现其中某一项需求给你。

And in every conversation, if you ask somebody about themselves, they're going to come across and reveal one of those things to you.

所以，如果我知道你是一个追求重要性的人，而我却向你推销这个想法有多聪明，以及你做出这个选择有多明智，那我就是在用完全相反的方式与你沟通。

So if I know that you are a significance driven person, and I'm selling you on how smart of an idea this is and how intelligent you are for making this choice, I'm communicating the way opposite in what you need to hear.

因此，每当你谈论自己、你的成就、你生活中喜欢的东西、这周发生了什么、你最美好的回忆时，这些需求就会逐渐显露出来。

So the moment that I hear you talk about yourself, your accomplishments, what you like in life, what happened for you this week, what's a great memory that you have, every conversation, you're gonna hear this stuff starting to get revealed.

所以当你听到某人谈论这些内容时——这些都是你在对话中很快就能捕捉到的信息。

So you hear somebody within and these are conversations there are things that you could hear in a conversation pretty quickly.

你开始和某人交谈，对方说，是的，我其实是那家公司的首席执行官。

You start talking to somebody, they said, yeah, I'm actually the CEO at that company.

我手下有四百九十名员工，明年可能就要套现退出了。

I've got four ninety people that work for me, and I'm probably going to be making an exit sometime next year.

所以你听到了。

So you hear that.

这体现了地位，对吧？

There's significance, right?

然后你留意对方是否寻求认可。

Then you listen for approval.

当你听到有人说：‘明天我得上台演讲，但我根本不擅长公开讲话。’

And this is when you hear people say, well, I've got to go up on stage tomorrow, but I suck at public speaking.

我肯定会搞砸的。

I'm going to I'm going to really bomb at it.

我真的很紧张。

I'm just really nervous.

试图让你说不。

Trying to get you to say, no.

你并不差。

You don't suck.

你很棒。

You're great.

你上次做得很好。

You did great last time.

这次你一定会大放异彩。

You're going to rock this.

你能行的。

You got this.

然后你还有那些寻求认同的人。

Then you have the acceptance people.

他们总会使用我们、我们、我们的，还有团队这样的词。

They'll always use the terms like we, us, our, and just team.

所以，那些注重接纳的人总是强调自己是某个群体的成员，这一点会体现在他们的表达中。

So the acceptance people are all about, like, I'm a member of some kind of group, and that'll come across in their communication.

当你问一个注重接纳的人关于假期的事，他们会说，是的，我去过迈阿密。

So you ask a significance person about a vacation, and they say, yeah, I went down to Miami.

那地方太棒了。

It was fantastic.

我玩得非常开心，昨晚才刚回来。

I had a great time, and I just got back last night.

如果你问一个注重接纳的人，他们会说，我们一起去的那儿。

You ask an acceptance person, and they'll say, we went down there.

我们所有人都去了那个地方，一起做了这些事。

All of us went to this thing, and we did this.

所以你会经常听到这种谈论群体和归属感的语言。

So you hear a lot of this language that talks about groups and membership.

你再来看看智力层面。

You get into the intelligence side.

你经常听到人们说，是的，我其实是在这个人那里拿到的MBA学位吗？

How often do you hear people go, yeah, I actually got my MBA from this person.

哦，我的硕士论文就是研究这个的。

Oh, I did my master's thesis on that.

你有没有听到过人们流露出这种智力型的表达？

Do you hear this intelligence stuff come out of people?

可惜的是，你很容易就能识别出一个同情型的人。

And the pity is you can identify a pity person pretty well.

而这些人是最难沟通的。

And those are the hardest people to communicate to.

如果我要给你一套针对每种类型的人的最佳话术，同情型的人希望听到的是：我简直无法相信你经历了这么多，还能走到今天这一步，因为我觉得没几个人能做到。

And the pity person always like, if I want to give you the ideal thing to say to each one of these people, The pity person wants to hear, I can't believe all the stuff that you've been through, and you've got to this point, because I don't think many people would have.

同情型的人渴望别人认可他们的苦难。

Pity wants recognition of suffering.

最后，我们还有力量与掌控型的人。

And finally, we have the strength and power person.

这并不总是《回到未来》里的比夫。

And this isn't always Biff from Back to the Future.

所以，它可能是一个公司里的领导者，但他们渴望掌控。

So it can be somebody who's a leader in a company, but they want control.

因此，重要性指的是：我是否产生了影响？

So significance is, do I make a difference?

力量和掌控指的是：我是否能控制他人？

Strength and power is, do I have control over other people?

这些人都属于从那种强行挤上领导位置的人，到那些开着夸张改装皮卡、车后还挂着塑料睾丸的人。

These are the everybody from, like, the leader who kind of forces his way into the top to the guy with the ridiculous jacked up pickup truck that has, like, the plastic testicles hanging off of the back of it.

一旦你理解了某人属于哪种类型，你该如何调整自己的沟通方式，以更有效地与他们交流？

And once you understand what categorization someone fits into, how would you show up in a way that's effective in communicating with them?

比如说，如果我正在和一个重视重要性的人交谈。

Say, for example, if I'm talking to a significance person.

是的。

Yeah.

我只是在和他们谈一笔交易，我该去迎合他们的价值感吗？

Do I just I'm trying to close a deal with them or something, do I pander to their significance?

是的。

Yeah.

我们还教聪明人识别其他几种类型。

So there's a few other types that we teach intelligence people to identify.

我们做决定有六种方式，而我们追求的价值目标也有六种类型。

There's six ways we make decisions and then six ways that we have values, which is our end goal that we want.

但我想用一种方式表达，这个决定会提升你的价值感。

But I want to speak in a way that says this decision is going to increase your level of significance.

在我向他们提出请求之前，我想先称赞他们的价值感。

And I want to compliment them on their level of significance right before I ask them for something.

所以我可以说，史蒂文，这档播客真棒。

So I could say, Steven, this is a great podcast.

你有数百万订阅者，显然你对许多人的生活产生了影响。

You've got millions of subscribers, and it's obvious you make a difference in so many people's lives.

你是一个重视意义的人。

And you are a significance person.

因此，这对你是有效的，因为我知道你希望尽可能产生最大的影响。

So that would be effective for you, because I know that you want to make the biggest difference that you can.

我想以一种方式表达，一方面能触及他们的需求，并让他们知道我是能满足这些需求的资源。

And I want to speak in a way that, a, speaks to their needs and lets them know that I am a source for that.

另一方面，做出这个决定——无论我们讨论的是卖车还是其他什么事——都将提升你从他人那里获得同样需求的能力。

But b, that making this decision, whatever we're talking about, selling a car, whatever, is going to increase your ability to get that same need from other people.

所以我认为，如果我们一起做这件事，马上就会发生的第一件事是：你将能够影响两倍多的人。

So I think if we did this together, I think the number one thing that's going to happen right away is you're going to be able to impact twice as many people.

你将在世界上留下更深的印记。

You're going to leave a much deeper footprint on the world.

因此，我给你的是，我们将使你的订阅者或听众数量翻倍。

So I'm giving you we're going to double your subscribers or your listeners.

但不仅仅是这些。

But not just that.

你将对这个世界产生更大的影响和留下更深远的遗产。

You're going to make a bigger impact and legacy on the world.

所以每当我思考需求时，总是从神经递质的角度来考虑。

So every time I'm thinking about needs, always think in terms of neurotransmitters.

所以如果我能肯定某人的需求，这正是我们从他人那里需要的东西。

So if I can compliment someone on their need, that's what we need from other people.

因此，当他们听到这些时，我会让他们大脑释放出五亿个神经递质。

So I'm giving them, like, 500,000,000 neurotransmitters being released when they hear this.

所以这不仅仅是像我们刚才提到的那些痛苦、不安和各种问题。

So it's not just that we're kind of suffering and insecure and all these things that we talked about a minute ago.

我们每个人也都是药物成瘾者。

We're also drug addicts, everybody.

我们只需要找出这个人上瘾的药物是什么。

We just need to identify the drug that that person's addicted to.

我刚才在想那支笔。

I was thinking about the pen.

我当时想，如果我是那种聪明人，你要怎么向我推销这支笔呢？

I was like, I was gonna ask you to if I'm a if I'm an intelligence person and you had to sell me the pen.

是的。

Yeah.

你会怎么做呢？

How would you go about that?

你知道，世界上有很多人，我认为大多数人只是随大流。

You know, I think there's a lot of people in the world out there, and I think most people just do what other people do.

我相信你也会同意，世界上有太多人只会做最基础的事情。

And I'm sure you would agree there's so many idiots out there that just get with the basic thing.

我就做这个最基本的事，他们很少突破常规。

I'm gonna this basic thing, and they don't really go outside the box very often.

但偶尔你会遇到一些懂得更高品质事物的人，遇到一些能以不同视角看待问题的人。

And every once in a while, there's you meet somebody who knows higher quality things, and you meet somebody who is able to see things at a level different than other people.

我会在谈论智力时，潜意识里把这一切都与这支笔联系起来。

And I would talk about that intelligence while subconsciously I'm associating all of that with this.

这不一样。

This is different.

它是独特的。

It's unique.

它是一支铅笔。

It's a pencil.

但它不像其他铅笔。

But it's it's not like other pencils.

它不是那种普通的、大众化的玩意儿。

It's not the basic run of the mill thing.

所以我要以某种方式来呈现它，而且我会先做一个负面评价。

So I'm gonna present that in a way, and I'm gonna start with a negative comment.

而这是一种非常有效的说服策略：我会将某种我不希望你拥有的东西与负面联想联系起来。

And this is one of the most effective persuasion strategies is to I'm gonna negatively associate something I don't want you to have.

假设我们刚开始做播客，我担心史蒂文不会认同我。

So let's say we're starting our podcast, and I'm afraid Steven's not going to connect with me.

而且我知道你是一个追求自我价值的人。

And I know that you're significance driven.

就像我们一开始那样，假设我在这期播客的最开头说这么一番话，我说：“史蒂文，谢谢你邀请我来，兄弟。”

As we started out, imagine if I said something at the very beginning of this podcast, and I said, Steven, thanks for having me, man.

现在网上的人实在太多了。

And there's so many people out there.

还有就是，每当我在对话里说负面内容的时候，我绝对不会在你我之间做出任何指向性的手势。

And when anytime I say something negative in a conversation, I never want to gesture in between you and me.

我总是倾向于做出向外挥手的手势

I always want to gesture away.

那我就可以借这个动作说，我们现在聊的是别的那种人

So this is we're talking about other people.

世界上有太多人从来不会为这个世界付出什么，也根本没兴趣去帮助其他人

There's so many people out there who just don't really give back to the world, and they don't really have an interest in helping other people.

结果就是，每次你碰到这种人，还和他们坐下来相处的时候

And it's like every time you meet one of those people, you sit down with them.

他们都有一个共同点。

It's like all of them have the same thing in common.

当他们坐下来与人交谈时，根本无法停下来建立联系。

They can't just stop and connect when they sit down with somebody.

所以我用你所重视的需求来贬低一种特质，比如无法建立联系。

So I'm demonizing a trait using your needs that I don't want you to have, like the inability to connect.

啊，明白了。

Ah, okay.

有意思。

Interesting.

而且你有意识地指向外面，表示这是别人，而不是

And you're consciously pointing off to gesture to it's others, not

对。

Right.

直到我说出‘联系’这个词，我才开始在你我之间来回手势。

Until I said the word connect, and then I gestured between you and me back and forth between both of us.

是的

Mhmm.

而“停止”这个词在英语中是一个非常有力的词。

And that word stop is a very powerful word in the English language.

所以当我说到，他们似乎都具有相同的特质时。

So when I said, it's like all of them have the same quality to them.

他们无法仅仅停下来，与他人建立充分的连接。

They can't just stop and fully connect with somebody else.

这是一件非常微妙的事情。

That's a very subtle thing.

但我利用了你的神经递质。

But I've used your neurotransmitters.

我利用了你的需求，让你点头表示认同。

I've used your needs, and I've got you to agree you nodded your head.

认同那些人其实并不善于与他人建立连接。

Agree that those people don't really connect well with other people.

所以这些东西的力量就是如此强大。

So that's how powerful that stuff can be.

你也可以用同样的方法反过来操作。

And you can use the same thing in in reverse.

我可以表达一个积极的观点。

And I could say a positive thing.

我可以说，你知道吗，史蒂文，让我感到着迷的是，我走遍了全世界。

And I could say, you know, Steven, what's fascinating to me is I've gone around the world.

我见过好几位企业家。

I've met several entrepreneurs.

我见过一些上过电视的人。

I've met people who are on TV.

在见到他们之前，你可能会觉得他们态度轻蔑、漫不经心。

And it's like you think that they are just dismissive offhand before you meet them.

但当你真正见到这些人时，会感到不可思议。

And it's incredible when you meet these people.

他们所有人好像都拥有一种能力，能屏蔽周遭一切干扰，全心全意地和身边的人建立联结。

It's like all of them have this ability to just tune everything out and just completely connect with somebody.

对的。

Mhmm.

而这么做也能产生同样的效果。

And that would have the same effect.

那这背后到底是怎么一回事呢？

And what what's going on there?

大家会不会因为这种描述是正面的，就想成为那样的人，努力达到别人给我们设定的这个期待？

People we wanna be that person because it's positive we wanna live up to that expectation set?

没错。

Right.

所以我刚才做的，其实就是引导你说出了克里斯·沃斯常说的那句“就是这样”。

So what I've done is I've got you to say, as Chris Voss would put it, that's right.

好的。

Okay.

但我让你说出了关于你自己的看法。

But I've got you to say that about who you are as a person.

好的。

Okay.

所以现在我不是在改变你的想法。

So now I'm not changing your ideas.

我是在改变你的身份。

I'm changing your identity.

改变我的身份？

Changing my identity?

或者对。

Or Yeah.

因为你已经认同了你是怎样的人。

Because you've made an agreement about who you are.

你点头说好了。

You've nodded Okay.

你的，如果我想更进一步，我会先做一个坦白，我会说，你知道吗？

Your And if I wanted to take that further, I would I would make an admission first, and I'd say, you know what?

我小时候有社交焦虑，我很想知道。

I had social anxiety growing up, and I'm curious.

你一直以来都能和每个你交谈的人轻松建立联系，这是天生的，还是你后天努力的结果？

What is it that have you always been able to just connect with everybody you talk to, or is this something that you had to work on?

哦，这是个问题吗？

Oh, is that a question?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

但我知道这并不是一个问题。

But I know it's not a question.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

瞬间问题。

Moment question.

当你问出这个问题并开始回答时，你就已经就自己是谁达成了某种共识。

The moment that you ask that that you start to answer that question, you've made an agreement about who you are as a person.

所以，如果我想让某人少一点封闭，我可能会说：我这一生一直担心别人怎么想，直到25岁才终于能打开心扉。

So if I wanted somebody to be less closed off, I might say, you know, I've spent my whole life just worried about what other people think, and I was 25 before I got to a point where I was able to open up.

你一直都是这样对人敞开心扉的吗？还是说你为此付出了努力？

Have you always been this open with people, or did you have to work on that?

所以，随便怎么回答，都不会有人直接说：其实我很封闭。

So just any answer, and no one's going to give you an answer of, like, actually, I'm just closed off.

我非常封闭，可能只有1%的人是这样。

I'm very closed minded, and that's maybe a point 1% of people.

所以是微小的共识。

So small agreements.

这些都不是设计让人逐字照搬的。

And none of these are designed for people to take word for word.

我想他们也可以这么做。

I guess they can.

但关键是让某人反思自己的身份，反思他们作为一个人的本质。

But it's about the idea of getting someone to comment on their own identity, who they are as a person.

关于沟通，还有其他特别重要的方面吗？

Is there anything else as it relates to communication that's especially important?

有趣的是，这么多人对沟通部分的兴趣，远大于对倾听部分的兴趣。

It's funny that so many people are interested in the communication part more so than the listening part.

他们想要的是飞行检查清单。

They want the flight checklist.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想到朱利安·特雷莎，他做过关于如何成为优秀演讲者的TED演讲。

It's the thing with Julian Treasure, who did the TED talk on how to be a great speaker.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

他告诉我，他还做过一个关于如何成为优秀倾听者的TED演讲，但根本没人听。

He told me he also did a TED talk on how to be a great listener, no no one listened.

他说，每个人都很关注他关于演讲的那场，观看量高达三千五百万，但关于倾听的那场却没人感兴趣。

He said everyone wanted to his one on speaking has got, like, 35,000,000 views, but the one on listening just no one's interested in that.

但我猜，倾听对于成为一个优秀的演讲者来说起着至关重要的作用。

But I'm I'm guessing listening plays a pretty critical role to being a great speaker.

是的。

Yeah.

倾听意味着我能识别出你是谁，理解驱动你的需求，包括社会需求以及你做决定的方式。

And listening means I can identify who you are and what the needs that are driving you and the social needs and the the way that you make decisions.

这是观察的一部分吗？

Is that part of the observation part?

是的，绝对是。

Yes, absolutely.

仅仅通过倾听，我就掌握了与你沟通的恰当措辞，以及真正理解是什么在驱动你这个人的动机。

Just listening to that means that now I have the right words to use for the communication and the right understanding of what motivates you as a person.

所以，如果我是一名治疗师，这会让我成为一个更好的治疗师。

So if I'm a therapist, that makes me a better therapist.

如果我是一名人质谈判专家，这会让我成为一个更出色的人质谈判专家。

If I'm a hostage negotiator, that makes me a better hostage negotiator.

如果我是一名自杀预防热线接线员，这会让我的工作成效大幅提升，因为我能准确理解我正在与之交谈的人。

And if I'm a suicide hotline operator, that makes me way better at my job because I'm understanding exactly who I'm talking to.

我的目标是说服一个人去做他们通常不会做的事情。

And my goal is to talk someone into doing something that they normally would not do.

你提到了这种‘引导式提问’。

You talk about this elicitation.

是的。

Yeah.

什么是引导式提问？

What is elicitation?

这是一种中情局的技术。

It's a CIA technique.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

It is.

它最初是由一个叫约翰·诺兰的人提出的，但他的这本书现在已经不再销售了。

It was originally came up with by this guy named John Nolan, and his book is no longer for sale.

你只能在eBay上找到它。

It's you have to get it on eBay.

很难买到。

Like, it's hard to find.

但这本书叫《机密》。

But the book is called Confidential.

为什么它不再销售了？

Why isn't it no longer for sale?