微生物组医生：医生们都错了！为了肠道健康完美，你该吃的3种食物！

所以它很可能在小肠的上部起作用，也就是肠道更靠上的位置。

So it's probably working higher up in the small intestine, is further up in the gut.

肠道在哪里？

Where is the gut?

是的，大多数人如果被问到肠道在哪里，都会指自己的胃。

Yeah, so most people, if you ask people to point to the gut, they always think of their stomach.

对。

Yeah.

那不是你的胃，你看。

That's not your stomach, you see.

那是你的肠道。

That's your, they're the intestines.

你的胃在这里，还能把肝脏挤走。

So your stomach is up here, able to take away your liver.

如果你想象一下人体，嘴巴进去，食物通过食管——这是一根通向胃的管道——胃在这里，是高度酸性的，然后通过一个小阀门进入十二指肠，食物在这里被搅碎成小团，接着进入小肠，虽然叫‘小’肠，但它其实是肠道中最大的部分，由无数盘绕的肠管组成。

If you imagine we've got a body here, a mouth, food goes in there through the esophagus, which is a tube that leads to the stomach and this is the stomach here which is highly acidic and that leads into the duodenum through a little valve and that is where food starts getting mushed around into little balls and that goes into the small intestine here which is badly named because the small intestine is really the largest bit of the gut and it's endless coils of guts.

有很多隐窝。

There are lots of crypts.

到处都是小凹陷和缝隙，因此表面积非常大。

There's little nooks and crannies everywhere, and so the surface area is really huge.

如果铺展开来，它相当于好几个网球场的大小，仅在一个成年人体内就是这样，因为大部分营养物质都是在这里被吸收的。

It's several tennis courts if you laid it out, just one in one human, and that's because that's where most of the nutrients get absorbed.

营养物质从食物中被提取出来并通过这种方式被吸收，这样我们就能回收所有微量元素和其他物质。

They get extracted from the food and absorbed that way so that all the trace elements and things we're recycling.

我们就像一个回收工厂。

We're like a recycling factory.

然后，从小肠进入大肠，大肠也被称为结肠，大部分肠道微生物都存在于这里。

And then from the small intestine, it then goes into the large intestine, which is also called the colon, and that's where most of the gut microbes are.

所以，99%的肠道微生物都集中在最后一段——大肠，它有几米长，因人而异，这里是纤维素进入的地方，那些在肠道前段未被消化的物质就在这里，因为微生物主要以纤维素为食。

So so 99% of the gut microbes are in that final part, the large intestine, which is a couple of meters long and varies widely between people, and this is the spot where fiber goes, things that hasn't been digested in the early part of the the gut is and that's because the microbes mainly feed off fiber.

所以，微生物的有益作用就发生在这里。

And so that's where they do the good.

它们将纤维素转化为短链脂肪酸等物质，这些是有益的化学物质，对我们的免疫系统有好处。

They convert that fiber into products such as short chain fatty acids, which are the really beneficial chemicals that are good for our immune system.

需要认识到，在小肠和大肠中，都有大量的神经，这就是所谓的肠神经系统，也被称为我们的第二大脑，而且它实际上是最早形成的脑部结构。

And it's important to realize that across both the small and the large intestine, you've got huge amounts of nerves, you've got what's called the enteric nervous system, which is our second brain and it was actually the first brain to be formed.

当我们还是胚胎时，最初只是一个管状结构，围绕肠道形成的神经系统其实是身体最早出现的‘大脑’，而我们头部的第二个大脑，某种程度上只是后来的附加产物，这种想法还挺有趣的。

So when we were little embryos, we started as a little tube and the nervous system that formed around our intestine was actually the first bit, first brain of our body and in a way we developed the second one on our head as a bit of an afterthought which is quite a fun way of thinking about it.

但这正说明了肠道中的神经对我们身体功能有多么重要。

But just shows how important the nerves are in our gut to the way we function.

正如我们之前谈到的，这两者之间存在着联系。

And as we were talking earlier about this connection between the two.

此外，肠道中还有免疫细胞。

And there's also immune cells.

我们体内70%的免疫细胞都在肠道中，大部分位于大肠，但也存在于小肠。

So 70% of our immune cells are in the gut, most of them in the large intestine but also in the small intestine.

因此，我们的免疫系统和大量的神经系统都集中在这里。

So our immune system is here and a huge amount of our nervous system is here.

大概这些微生物遍布全身吧？

Presumably the bugs are all through the body?

它们无处不在。

They're everywhere.

所以它们也存在于你的……是的，我应该指出，我们全身都布满微生物。

So they're also in your, yes, so I should point out we're covered in bugs.

人体的每一个部位都有一些微生物存在。

So every bit of the human body has some bugs in it.

我们体内微生物第二多的地方是口腔，也就是口腔微生物组，存在于唾液、牙齿和牙龈中。因此，如果口腔卫生不好，不正确使用牙线，患痴呆症的风险会翻倍——这很有趣，因为这里微生物与牙菌斑等残留物互动，导致牙龈发炎，从而创造了一个适合喜欢炎症的有害微生物生存的环境。至于为什么这些微生物似乎会从口腔进入大脑并引发脑部炎症，进而增加痴呆风险，目前我们还不清楚。

The second biggest place where we have them is in our mouth, so the oral microbiome, in saliva and in our teeth and our gums, and that's why poor hygiene, if you're not flossing properly, you're double the risk of getting dementia as well interestingly because there's a real link between microbes here that if they're eating plaque and other stuff that you're leaving around in your gums gets inflamed, that creates an environment where nasty microbes that love inflammation live and for reasons we don't know, they seem to pass from your mouth into your brain and trigger inflammation in the brain which then increase your risk of dementia.

那你平时不使用牙线吗？

So you're not flossing?

这是最新的科学研究，表明让正确的微生物存在于正确的位置、避免错误位置的微生物有多么重要。

Yes, this is really new science showing that just how important these getting the right bugs in the right place and avoiding the ones who are in the wrong place really is.

我们为什么需要这些微生物？

Why do we need these bugs?

为什么进化没有让我们直接完成所有这些功能，而不需要这些小小的工作者——我们体内的这些微生物呢？

Why didn't evolution design us so that we could just do all this stuff without the need of these little workers, these little bugs in our bodies.

对我来说，这看起来非常奇怪，你认为人体是一个单一的生物体，但实际上它似乎是数百万、数百万、数百万个生物体的集合。

It seems super weird to me that, you you think of the human body as being this one organism, but actually it appears to be many millions and millions and millions of organisms.

嗯，你有

Well, you've got a

这是一种以人类为中心的世界观，斯蒂姆森。

sort of human centric view of the world, Stimson.

由微生物进化而来。

Evolved from microbes.

我们是一个整体，我们曾经是一个整体。

We are one, we used to be one.

我们曾经是一个整体，而事实上，我们身体的大部分都是微生物的残留物。

We used to be one and it turns out that most of our body are remnants of microbes.

微生物显然融合在一起，形成了人类细胞。

Microbes obviously fused to cause human cells.

所以，这就是多细胞生物如何聚集在一起的整个起源。

So that was the whole origin of how multicellular creatures came together.

这些单细胞微生物中，有些融合在一起形成了多细胞结构，而另一些则保持了单细胞状态。

These single celled microbes, some of them fused to do that, others stayed as single cells.

单细胞生物和它们的多细胞祖先之间始终存在着联系，随着我们共同进化成更复杂的生物，这两者始终相伴相生；而且，当我们作为胚胎形成时，肠道是第一个从发育系统中出现的结构——这个管道天生就是为了容纳微生物，这些微生物在训练我们的免疫系统识别有害与有益物质方面起着至关重要的作用。

There was always this link between the single celled guys and their multicellular ancestors if you like and so as we co evolved into more complicated beings, the two were always together and it turned out that again, as we're formed as embryos, the gut is the first thing that, this tube is the first thing that comes out of the design system and it's designed to have microbes in it that serve a crucial purpose in training our immune system to recognize what's harmful and what's beneficial.

它也被证明对我们的大脑发育至关重要。

And it's also shown to be crucial for our brain development.

但当我们开始思考自己的起源时，这真的很有趣——事实上，我们本质上是从微生物开始的，因为我们通常不会这样看待自己的身体：历史上，我们一直认为，上帝创造的这个身体与任何其他东西都毫无关联。

But it is fascinating when we start thinking about our origins and think of it, you know, we essentially start as microbes because also we don't think of our body, you know, we've always historically thought of, you know, God's creation, this body had nothing to do with anything else.

我们是宇宙的主宰。

We were the masters of the universe.

意识到我们身体的绝大部分都源自微生物，这真是一种令人谦卑的领悟。我最近还了解到一件事，也让我大为震惊：我们所有的细胞中都含有被称为线粒体的能量工厂，而它们的作用远不止为细胞提供能量。

And I think it's quite humbling to realize that so much of us comes from microbes and I learned something recently that also blew me away is that all our cells have these powerhouses in them called mitochondria and it turns out they do much more than just supply batteries for the cell.

它们还在对抗炎症、调控基因表达、促进新陈代谢，而这些结构的起源，其实是被我们身体捕获的微小微生物。

They're fighting inflammation, they're put for gene expression, they're good for metabolism and it turns out the origin of these things is little microbes that got trapped in our bodies.

它们本质上是擅长制造能量的微生物，在我们遥远的过去，我们那些四处活动的多细胞微生物与它们融合了。

They are essentially microbes that were good at making, creating energy, and at some point in our distant past, we fused our multicellular microbes that were going around doing stuff.

它们说，自己唯一能做的就是产生更多能量，于是偶然间，它们与这些产能微生物融合，逐渐被纳入我们的身体，以至于我们现在全身遍布线粒体，而它们的祖先也是微生物。

They said all we could do was some more energy and so by chance they fused with these energy microbes and slowly and slowly became incorporated into our bodies so that we now have these mitochondria all over our bodies whose ancestors are also microbes.

我们身体的每个细胞里都有它们。

And we have them in every cell of our body.

是的，确实如此。

Yes, we do.

它们在大脑健康方面也显得至关重要。

And they're turning out to be quite crucial as well in brain health.

你是否经常思考，或者在你生命中的某些阶段，曾思考过这一切的意义，以及为什么会有生命体存在？

Do you spend much time wondering or have there been periods in your life where you've wondered about the meaning of all of this and why there's living organisms?

因为从表面上看，生命体似乎并不是必需的。

Because it doesn't appear to be a great need for living organisms.

你知道，这些星球上本可以只有岩石和水。

You know, you could just have rocks and water on these planets.

我不明白为什么人类在对环境的贡献方面是必需的？

I don't know why you need humans necessarily as it relates to the contribution we make to the environment?

我认为，一旦有了生命，无论是植物生命——你可能在想动物生命，但像岩石上的地衣就是最早的生命形式之一，它们需要从岩石中获取能量和营养，然后不知为何，它们只是想要生存下去。

Well, I think as soon as you add life, whether it's plant life, I mean, you're thinking perhaps of animal life, but things like lichen on rocks were one of the first forms of life and something that was needed to get energy nutrients from the rock and then they, for some reason, just wanted to survive.

我认为，生命的本质就是获取足够的营养，以便继续生存，或者把你的基因传递给其他人。

I think that's the point that life is about getting enough nutrients so you can keep living or pass, you know, your genes on to someone else.

就是这个概念。

It's this that concept.

一旦这个过程开始了，也许是地衣，其他所有生命都由此而来。

Once that was started, maybe it was lichen, everything else came from that.

而这可能仅仅是一个偶然事件。

And that could have just been a chance event.

但我知道，想到我们可能正是从这样卑微的起点——从岩石和水中演化而来，总是让人感到谦卑。

So but I, you know, it is always humbling, humbling to think that, you know, we've probably come back from some lowly point like this as we emerge from rocks and water.

不过，哲学并不是我的强项，但我从发现身边无处不在的新事实中获得了极大的乐趣。

But yeah, philosophy is not my strong suit, but I just get so much pleasure from finding new facts that are all around us.

我认为令人着迷的是，人类花了这么长时间仰望星空，而研究我们体内的微生物及其起源，对我来说要有趣得多。

And I think it's fascinating that we've spent so long as humans looking up at the stars, whereas looking inside us at things like microbes and their origin is to me far more exciting.

这或许也能解释为什么我们在像法国这样的地方如此关注星空。

And maybe explanatory as to, like, you know, we're looking at the stars in such as France.

是的，看看星空，哦，我们从哪里来？

Yeah, look at the stars, oh, where do we come from?

那大爆炸呢？

What about the Big Bang?

所有这些类似的东西。

All this kind of stuff.

而实际上，研究我们自身内部的东西以及它们的来源，我们能学到更多关于自己的东西。

Whereas actually studying what's in ourselves and where do they come from, we could learn a hell lot more about ourselves.

如果你关注过我，你可能听过我谈论招聘，比其他任何话题都多。

If you follow me, you've probably heard me talk about hiring more so than anything else.

你可能在我们的另一个YouTube频道《日记背后》上见过我，谈论我对招聘流程的痴迷。

You've probably seen me on Behind the Diary, which is our other YouTube channel, talking about how obsessed I am with the hiring process.

这让我想向你们推荐一个建议：如果你在招聘方面遇到困难，不妨试试我们的赞助商LinkedIn。

And this really brings me to a recommendation I'd love to give you, which is to check out our sponsor, LinkedIn, if you're having hiring difficulties.

他们的新AI助手会根据你为特定职位设定的标准筛选申请，只筛选出最匹配的人选。

Their new AI assistant filters out applications for you based on the criteria you've set for that specific job, surfacing only the best matches.

这样你就不用再费力地翻阅一大堆简历了。

That way, you're not left having to hunt through a mountain of different resumes.

它每天会推荐25位符合你要求的候选人，你可以直接邀请他们申请该职位。

It'll recommend 25 candidates daily who fit what you're looking for that you can then invite to apply for the role.

LinkedIn是我们寻找团队中长期顶尖人才的地方。

LinkedIn is where we go to find the long term A players that I have in my team.

事实上，通过LinkedIn招聘的员工，至少留任一年的可能性比通过其他招聘平台 hired 的员工高出30%。

In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through other job networks.

立即免费在 linkedin.com/doac 发布职位，一次就招对人。

Hire right the first time by posting your job for free at linkedin.com/doac.

然后使用推广功能，体验LinkedIn全新的AI助手。

Then use the promotion feature to access LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant.

那就是 linkedin.com/doac。

That's linkedin.com/doac.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

我只需要把想法一股脑儿倒出来就行了。

All I had to do was brain dump.

想象一下，如果总有一个人在你身边，能把你在脑海中产生的想法，借助AI进行润色，让表达更流畅、语法更正确，并帮你记录下来。

Imagine if you had someone with you at all times that could take the ideas you have in your head, synthesize them with AI to make them sound better and more grammatically correct, and write them down for you.

这正是WhisperFlow在我生活中的作用。

This is exactly what WhisperFlow is in my life.

它就像一个思维伙伴，帮助我理清想表达的内容，现在无论我在路上、独自在办公室，还是外出时，我都可以通过语音，在所有设备上回复邮件、Slack消息、WhatsApp以及其他所有信息。

It is this thought partner that helps me explain what I want to say, and it now means that on the go, when I'm alone in my office, when I'm out and about, I can respond to emails and Slack messages and WhatsApps and everything across all of my devices just by speaking.

我非常喜欢这个工具。

I love this tool.

几个月前，我就开始在我的幕后频道里谈论这个工具了。

And I started talking about this in my behind the scenes channel a couple of months back.

然后创始人联系了我，说因为你的推荐，有很多人开始使用我们的工具。

And then the founder reached out to me and said, we're seeing a lot of people come to our tool because of you.

所以我们非常希望成为你的赞助商。

So we'd love to be a sponsor.

我们希望你能成为这家公司的投资人。

We'd love you to be an investor in the company.

于是我接受了这两项合作提议。

And so I signed up for both of those offers.

我现在不仅是Whisper Flow这家公司的投资人，还是其重要的合作伙伴。

And I'm now investor and a huge partner in a company called Whisper Flow.

你一定要去试试看。

You have to check it out.

Whisper Flow的速度是打字的四倍。

Whisper Flow is four times faster than typing.

如果你想试用，欢迎访问whisperflow.ai/doac，免费开始使用。

So if you wanna give it a try, head over to whisperflow.ai/doac to get started for free.

你可以在下面的描述中找到 Whisper Flow 的链接。

And you can find that link to Whisper Flow in the description below.

所以这是八个要点中的第二个，那就是每天吃30种植物。

So that was the second point of the eight, which is eat 30 plants.

每天吃30种是一个简单又美味的方法。

And so eat daily 30 is an easy way to do that and a tasty way to do that.

第三个是什么？

What's the third one?

我会建议吃发酵食品，每天尽量摄入三份发酵食品。

I'd go for eat fermented foods and try and get three portions of ferments in your diet every Every day.

三年前我不会这么说，因为当时的科学证据还不够充分，但三年前斯坦福大学一个研究团队对28人进行的研究显示，他们每天给予五份发酵食品，持续约一个月，结果发现与高纤维饮食相比，血液炎症水平降低了约25%。

And I wouldn't have said this three years ago because the science wasn't really strong enough to support this, but a study three years ago by a group in Stanford of 28 people showed giving, they gave them five portions a day for about a month and showed that you can get a reduction in blood inflammation levels about 25% in that time compared to a fiber diet.

这让我大为震惊，因为这是该领域第一个真正高质量的研究，虽然之前有很多研究，但质量都不高。

And that blew me away because this was the first really good study in this area because there've been lots of studies, but they're not good quality.

突然间，有人开始每天抽血检测，分析了血液中二十多种蛋白质，从而首次建立了食物与血液炎症之间的直接关联，而正如我们之前讨论的，这会对大脑和身体其他部位产生重大影响。

Suddenly someone doing daily bloods, they looked at 20 odd proteins in the blood and suddenly you've got this link between a food and directly affecting inflammation in the blood, which as we've been talking about, has big knock on effects on the brain and the rest of the body.

就像泡菜之类的东西。

That's like kimchi and stuff like that.

发酵食品是指任何通过微生物转化成更好形态的食物，这意味着它味道更好、风味更复杂、保存时间更长，因此不需要冰箱。

Fermented food is any food that's been transformed by microbes into something better, which means it tastes better, it's more complex, it lasts longer, so you don't need a fridge.

这就是我们的祖先这么做的原因。

That's why our ancestors did it.

它经过了化学转化，通常更有营养。

And it's been chemically transformed and is generally more nutritious.

给我举几个例子。

Give me some examples.

比如用牛奶做的酸奶。

So yogurt from milk.

你正在做零是

You're doing Zero is

脂肪。

fat.

零脂肪希腊酸奶。

Zero fat Greek yogurt.

哦，我从不喝零脂肪希腊酸奶。

Oh, never have zero fat Greek yogurt.

你为什么现在想喝呢？

Why do you want to drink now?

我不知道，只是觉得

I don't know, was just

不行。

No.

不行？

No?

这意味着它经过了高度加工，你不该吃那个。

That means it'd be heavily processed, you don't want that.

但里面仍然有有益的微生物，你只是在把像牛奶这样普通人其实并不需要的普通东西进行转化。

But there's still good microbes in it and all you're doing is transforming something rather average like milk, which adults don't really need.

牛奶并没有特别的好处。

It's not particularly beneficial milk.

只是通过添加微生物，你就把它变成了对身体有益的东西，这一点已经被这类研究证实了。

And just by adding the microbes to it, you make it something healthy for the body and that's now been shown by these kind of studies.

你指的是这种零脂希腊酸奶有什么问题？

What do mean by, what's wrong with this zero fat Greek yogurt?

它写着零脂肪，听起来好像很

It says zero fats, that sounds like it's

我们需要脂肪才能生存。

Well, we need fats to live.

所以脂肪是好的。

So fat is good.

事实上，就在几天前，美国农业部已经修改了所有指南，以前他们建议不要摄入脂肪、选择低脂产品，现在却说脂肪其实是有益的。

And in fact, just a few days ago, the USDA have changed all their guidelines, which used to be about saying don't have fat and have low fat products to saying actually fat is good.

我们过去所有的建议都是错误的。

All that advice we said in the past is wrong.

那为什么他们还要把东西标为零脂肪呢？

So why do they label things zero fat still?

因为公众仍然认为它们健康，而生产这些产品的公司通过使用零脂肪来节省成本。

Because public still believe they're healthy and the companies that make them save money by having zero fat.

他们基本上用淀粉类的人工添加剂来替代脂肪。

They replace the fat with starchy artificially made fillers basically.

所以，零脂肪的产品通常含糖量更高。

So it's usually more sugary by having zero fat in it.

但如果它标着零脂肪，那就是不健康的信号，你应该避开它。

But if it says zero fat, it's a sign it's unhealthy, you should avoid it.

那么那些发酵食品是什么呢？

So what are those fermented foods then?

你说过我们要说

Were going say you said

那我直接给你列个清单吧，这样大家就知道我在说什么了。

Well, shall I just give you a quick list of all of so people know what I'm talking about?

我们有酸奶，有奶酪，几乎所有奶酪都含有活性微生物，除了美国奶酪。

So we've got yogurt, we've got cheese, and virtually every cheese has live microbes except American cheeses.

越手工制作的，微生物种类就越多。

The more artisan, the bigger the number.

牛奶科菲爾，就像超級酸奶，通常含有10到20種微生物。

Milk kefir, which is like a super yogurt, often has 10 to 20 types of microbe in it.

酸菜。

The krauts.

想想四個K。

Think of the four Ks.

我們已經講過科菲爾了。

So we've got, we've done kefir.

酸菜就是德式泡菜。

The kraut is like a sauerkraut.

所以我們有發酵的捲心菜。

So we got fermented cabbage.

卷心菜单独吃其实挺无聊的。

Cabbage is pretty boring on its own.

你把它发酵后，味道会非常棒，而且还有健康益处。

You ferment it, the tastes are amazing and it has these health benefits.

还有泡菜，这是一种辣味的酸菜，是韩国的主食，非常健康。

Then you've got kimchi, which is a spicy kraut and the staple diet of Korea and they're pretty healthy.

尽管泡菜含有盐分，但吃泡菜的人血压比不吃泡菜的人更低。

And even though it's got salt in it, people who have kimchi have lower blood pressure than people that don't have kimchi.

我超爱泡菜。

And I love kimchi.

我一开始很讨厌它，但现在真的上瘾了。

Now I hated it at first, but I'm now a real addict.

然后还有康普茶。

Then you've got kombuchas.

你在大多数超市和商店都能看到它。

You see those in most supermarkets and stores.

那是发酵茶，好的品种可能含有30到40种这样的微生物。

That's fermented tea and the good ones can have 30 or 40 of these.

还有一种叫水科菲尔，没那么流行，但我认为我们会看到更多这种东西。

There's another type, water kefir, which isn't as popular, but I think we're gonna see more of it.

它也叫蒂比科斯。

Tibikos is the other name for it.

它是由颗粒和大量微生物组成的，有点像牛奶科菲尔，但加了水果。

It's grains with lots of microbes in it, a bit like milk kefir but with fruit added.

还有日本的各种味噌，比如味噌汤、味噌酱、天贝，这些都是发酵食品。

And then you've got all the misos you get in Japan, miso soup, miso paste, tempehs, all these ferments.

全世界有数百种不同的发酵食品，几乎每个大洲都有自己的发酵类型。

Around the world, there's hundreds of different ferments and nearly every continent has their own type of ferment.

在非洲，有各种各样的发酵啤酒和粥类。

In Africa, there's all kinds of fermented beers and porridges.

当然，我们还有这些是活的发酵品，但也有大量已死亡的发酵物。

And of course, we got the These are the live ones, but they've also got lots of dead ferments.

显然，面包是一种死发酵品。

Obviously, bread is a dead ferment.

人人都会做酸面团。

Everybody makes sourdough.

然后还有葡萄酒和啤酒。

Then you've got wines and beers.

有趣的是，同样是新兴科学，死发酵物实际上也具有一些健康益处。

And interestingly, again, very new science, dead ferments actually have some health benefits.

我过去对在美国商店里看到的那些标着‘轻度巴氏杀菌’的康普茶产品非常不屑。

So I used to be very dismissive of products like kombuchas that you would see in stores in America that say lightly pasteurized.

我会说，那完全是胡说八道。

And I'd say, well, that's a load of rubbish.

那根本没什么好处。

Be nothing good about that.

但事实证明，即使在随机对照试验中，死微生物对宿主也有一定的益处。

But it turns out that even dead microbes, when you do a randomized trial, have some benefit for the host.

你看起来有点怀疑，但这些与安慰剂对照的研究已经足够多了，你确实应该相信了。我认识一些研究者，他们自己都感到惊讶，但这确实是真实的。

You're looking a bit skeptical, but these against placebo studies and enough of them now that you definitely believe, I know some of the researchers, they were surprised, but it's genuine.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

这背后是什么原理？

What's going on?

我们认为，如果回过头来看我们之前讨论的疫苗，尽管这些微生物已经死亡，但它们仍然具有细胞壁和细胞壁上的蛋白质。

We think, again, if you go back to the vaccine discussion we were having, it looks like although it's not alive, the microbe still has a cell wall and it has proteins in the cell wall.

所以，你摄入的其实是这些死亡微生物的残骸。

So it's like the debris of these dead bodies that you're ingesting.

我们推测，当它们经过小肠时，会刺激你的免疫细胞。

We think they're tickling your immune cells as they go through the small intestine.

明白了。

Okay.

并向你的免疫系统发出信号，使其平静下来，减少炎症。

And giving a signal to your immune system to calm down, reduce inflammation.

这是我们目前对这一现象的最佳理解。

That's our best understanding of what this phenomenon is about.

因此，活微生物效果最好，但看起来像死微生物——被称为后生元或僵尸微生物——也可能对你有益。

So live microbes are best, but it looks like dead microbes, which are called postbiotics or zombiebiotics, are probably also good for you.

所以我认为所有发酵食品，即使是我三年前会忽略的那些，可能对我们都有好处。

So I think all fermented foods, even those that, you know, I would have dismissed three years ago are probably good for us.

而这确实是降低炎症水平的最佳方式。

And that's really the best way to reduce your inflammation levels.

我们在ZOE做了一项大规模研究，邀请了9000名不服用发酵食品的ZOE成员，尝试每天摄入三种发酵食品，观察他们的反应。

We did a big study in ZOE of we asked 9,000 people who are ZOE members who weren't taking ferments to try and see how they get on taking three ferments a day.

他们感觉如何？

How do they feel?

我想大约有三千人退出了，觉得不太能接受，但近六千人坚持了下来，在为期一周的适应期后，连续两周每天服用，其中约一半的人表示情绪、精力有所改善，饥饿感也减少了。

I think about three thousand dropped out, didn't fancy it, but nearly six thousand continued and did the two weeks taking it after a one week run-in period, and around half of them noticed improvements in mood, energy, and had less hunger.

所以，任何还没有尝试过的人，我认为这是一个简单而有效的方法，只需改变饮食，尝试一些你可能从未考虑过的发酵食品，就能看到明显的改善。

So anyone out there who hasn't tried this, I think it's a great simple way to see what you can improve just by changing what you're eating and going for some of these ferments that you might not have thought about.

第四点是什么？

What's number four?

第四点是调整你的蛋白质来源。

Number four is pivot your protein.

目前，蛋白质成了热门话题。

At the moment, protein's all in the news.

每个人都想摄入更多蛋白质。

Everyone wants to have more protein.

关于是否需要更多蛋白质，争议很大。

Big controversy about whether you need more.

大多数研究表明，我们中有百分之九十的人已经摄入了足够的蛋白质，除非你很难在饮食中摄入大量蛋白质，否则通常不会有太大害处，而大多数人一想到蛋白质就只关注鸡蛋和肉类。

Most studies showed ninety percent of us are getting enough protein, probably doesn't do too much harm other than it's really hard to get lots of protein in your diet and most people are focusing on eggs and meat when they think about protein.

所以我认为人们应该关注其他优质蛋白质来源，比如豆类、豆科植物、蘑菇、全谷物、藜麦和珍珠大麦，而不是大米。如果你有意识地选择这些食物，就能同时获取蛋白质和膳食纤维，因为我们中有百分之九十的人膳食纤维摄入不足，而如果你想照顾好肠道微生物，就必须给它们提供足够的纤维。

So what I think people should focus on is that many other sources of good quality protein like beans, like legumes, like mushrooms, like whole grains, quinoa and pearl barley instead of rice, that if you're thinking about it, you can get your protein and get your fiber because ninety percent of us are deficient in fiber, and if you wanna look after your gut microbes, you really need to be giving them the fiber.

否则，你只是通过喝蛋白质饮料在饿着它们。

Otherwise, you're starving them just by having a protein drink.

下一个，我们现在说到第几了？

Next one, which one are we now on?

第五个。

Number five.

第五点是关注质量，而不是卡路里。

Number five is think quality, not calories.

用卡路里来评估食物这个想法是错误的。

The whole idea of assessing food by calories is wrong.

我们以前讨论过这个问题。

We've discussed this in the past.

你绝不应该选择低卡路里的产品。

You should never really go for low calorie products.

你应该选择全食物，保留其原始结构和所有天然营养成分。

You should go for ones that are whole foods, that have their initial structure in them, that have all those original nutrients.

所以关键是专注于未被加工的高质量食物，为什么不是卡路里？

So it's all focusing really on high quality foods that haven't been tampered with and Why not calories?

因为以卡路里来评估食物并不是一种好方法。

Because it's not a good way to assess food.

大量研究表明，限制卡路里的饮食对绝大多数人来说并不有效，尤其是通过GLP-1药物我们了解到，当你限制饮食和卡路里摄入时，你的饥饿信号会增强，而饥饿正是肥胖的主要驱动因素。

Calorie restricted diets have been shown for the vast majority to be able not to work and we know particularly through GLP-one drugs that as you restrict your diet and calories, your hunger signals go up, and hunger is the main driver of obesity.

所以你只是短期内减掉了一些体重。

So all you're doing is losing some weight short term.

长期来看，你的身体会反弹回来。

Long term, it will bounce back as your body does that.

因此，任何标签上的卡路里数值都应被忽略。

So calories should be ignored on any labels.

你真正应该做的是选择高质量的食物，以支持你的肠道健康，这对许多人来说是一种重要的心态转变。

Really, you should be looking to get high quality food that supports your gut, and that's an important change in mindset for many people.

但下一个要点至关重要，它与上述观点紧密相关，那就是避免高风险的加工食品，因为它们会以多种方式损害你的肠道和身体。

But the next point is the crucial one which links to that which is avoiding high risk processed foods because they damage your gut and your body in a number of ways.

最明显的一点是，它们含有大量添加剂和化学物质，用来将它们转化为可食用的产品，而这些添加剂——比如乳化剂、防腐剂、胶体、色素、香精和人工甜味剂——都是食品公司为了让你的身体误以为这些食品美味而制造的，它们确实常常让人觉得好吃，但它们会损害你的肠道微生物；这些微生物在数十亿年的进化过程中从未接触过这类物质，因为它们在自然界中根本不存在这种形式。

The first obvious one is that they have lots of additives and chemicals to transform them into something edible and those ones, things like emulsifiers, preservatives, gums, colorants, flavorings, artificial sweeteners are all things made by the food companies to trick your body into thinking these are tasty and they often are, but they will damage your gut microbes who in their billions of years of evolution have never come across these products because they don't exist in nature in that form.

就像我这里这个谷物棒。

So like the cereal bar I have here.

是的。

Yes.

这个含有调味馅料，不管那是什么，还有葡萄糖浆、甘油、小麦、果汁浓缩物、植物纤维、天然香料、燕麦和大豆。

So this has got flavored fillings, whatever that means, glucose syrup, glycerin, wheat, fruit juice, concentrate, vegetable fiber, natural flavorings, oatmeal and soya.

嗯，这个看起来还不算太糟。

Well, this one doesn't look too bad.

我不太确定什么是调味馅料。

I'm not quite sure how flavored filling is though.

调味馅料。

Flavored filling.

那这个呢？

What about this?

那是玉米片之类的吗？

What's that cornflakes or something?

玉米片，是的。

Cornflakes, yes.

所以我会把它们视为高度加工食品，可能属于中等风险。

So they would be something I would regard as highly processed and probably a moderate risk.

在佐伊，我们创建了一个新的评分体系，因为过去我们会把这些都归为同一类，但现在我认为我们需要根据它们的成分将它们分为零风险、轻度、中度和高风险。

At Zoe, we've created a new scale because in the past we'd have grouped all of these together as the same but I think we now need to think of these as zero, mild, moderate, high risk depending on whether they have them.

那这个呢？

What about this?

这个属于高风险，因为这是由生产商专门设计的。

That would be high risk, okay, because this is designed by the people that make them.

它含有防腐剂，所以一周后它还是一模一样，对吧？

It's got preservatives in it, so this will be the same in a week's time, right?

我们还能继续摆弄它。

We can still be playing with it.

它不会变质或发霉。

It's not gonna change or get moldy.

它含有乳化剂来保持形状。

It's got emulsifiers to keep it together.

里面还额外加了糖。

It's got extra sugar in it.

可能含有大量盐分和糖，这里还有些脂肪。

It'll have a really amount of salt in there probably and sugar and I got some fat in here.

所以它会非常美味诱人。

So it'll be hyper palatable.

什么

What

那是什么意思？

does that mean?

这意味着你在感到饱腹之前可以吃很多。

That means that you can eat a lot of it before you get full.

所以它会让你吃得过多。

So it makes you overeat.

对于任何看不到的人，我们正在讨论的是白面包，就是你在超市里可能买到的那种普通白面包。

For anyone that can't see, we're talking about white bread, just normal white bread that you'd probably get in the supermarket.

是的。

Yeah.

而且它有一种特殊的结构，这种结构意味着它几乎不需要咀嚼。

And it's got a special structure that's different that also means that it takes very little chewing.

明白吗？

All right?

所以你把这东西放进嘴里，其实根本不需要怎么嚼。

So you put this in your mouth, you don't really have to chew it.

它就像婴儿食品。

It's like baby food.

而真正的高纤维面包，你知道的，得嚼好几下才能吞下去。

Whereas, you know, a real bread made with high fiber, know, it takes several chews to get it down you.

所以这些食物有很多特征都表明它们并不健康。

So there's lots of features of these foods that alert you to them being unhealthy.

所以不仅那些对肠道微生物有害并破坏它们的成分和添加剂，还会让你吃得过多。

So not only ingredients which are bad for your gut microbes and disrupt them, the additives, you've got the fact that it makes you overeat.

很多那种薯片之类的零食，一放嘴里就化了。

So a lot of those potato snacks and things you get, they just dissolve in your mouth.

它们的设计让你能吃得特别快。

They're designed, you can eat them so fast.

有没有一种

Is there a

好的面包或者更推荐的面包吗？

good bread or a preferable bread?

是的，有的。

Yeah, there are.

但不多。

There's not many.

像黑麦面包、斯佩尔特面包，最好是酸面包，比如德国风格或斯堪的纳维亚风格的面包，它们对你比较健康，因为它们保留了完整的谷物，因此富含营养。

Things like rye breads and spelt breads, ideally sourdoughs, the German style breads, Scandinavian breads, they're pretty good for you because they still have the whole grain intact and that means it's got the nutrients.

这也意味着吃起来更慢，更容易有饱腹感。

Also means it's harder to eat them quickly and they fill you up.

如果你吃这种面包，只会让你更饿。

If you eat this bread, it just makes you hungrier.

我当住院医生时经常吃这个。

I used to have this all the time when I was a junior doctor.

每个病房都有烤面包机，还有NHS提供的廉价面包。

Every ward had toasters and cheap bread courtesy of the NHS.

你吃下去后，会有一点能量提升。

And you eat them, they give you a little kick.

但吃完四个之后，一小时后你还是觉得饿。

You just feel just as hungry an hour later having eaten, you know, four of them.

我认为这就是问题所在。

I think this is the problem.

很多人没有意识到，这种食物不仅让人生病，让肠道微生物受损，还导致他们吃得过多。

Many people don't realize that this food is not only making them sick, making their gut microbes sick, but it's actually making them overeat.

研究表明，这种食物会让你多摄入约25%的食物，这个数字在你每天的生活中累积起来非常可观。

And studies show it makes you overeat by about 25%, which really adds up every day of your life.

很多人，包括我自己，一生都认为，因为吃这些东西后会胃痛、有时胀气，或者出现如厕方面的不适，所以自己是无麸质的，或者说是麸质不耐受之类的。

A lot of people, including me, have gone through their life thinking that because when they eat this stuff, they get stomach pains and sometimes they have gas or they'll have like, I don't know, toilet related issues, that they are gluten free, like they are gluten intolerant or whatever.

我就是那种人。

I was one of those people.

我以为，如果我吃这块面包，接下来两天都会感到不适。

I thought, because if I eat this, if I was to eat this piece of bread, I'd feel it for the next two days.

所以我一直以为自己是无麸质的。

So I assumed I was gluten free.

但上次我们聊的时候，你告诉我，几乎没有人真的对麸质不耐受，那个术语叫什么来着？

But when I think we spoke last time, you told me that almost nobody is gluten intolerant, has a gluten, what's the term?

是麸质不耐受吗？

There's Gluten intolerant?

麸质不耐受。

Gluten intolerant.

是的，但那并不是当你

Yeah, but that's not When you

检测他们时，是的，直接检测。

test them, yes, directly.

我的意思是，确实有一些，但大多数认为自己是的人其实并不是。

I mean, are some, but most people who think they are are not.

这是因为，通常当你在美国或英国吃三明治时，你吃的是劣质面包、糟糕的馅料，还有各种其他添加剂和化学物质，这些很可能让你不舒服。

And that's because generally when you eat a sandwich in The US or The UK, you're getting crap bread, a terrible filling, all kinds of other additives and chemicals which are probably disagreeing with you.

所以当你不再吃三明治时，你可能会感觉好一些。

So when you give up eating sandwiches, you might feel better.

大约有30%的人认为麸质对他们是个问题，但真正需要严格避免的人只有1%。

So roughly up to 30% of people believe gluten is a problem for them, but only 1% actually need to strictly avoid it.

我认为这是一个很好的例子，说明我们喜欢寻找简单的解决方案。

I think it's a great example of we love to have a simple solution.

于是麸质出现了，人们开始纷纷把注意力集中在麸质上。

So gluten came in, said, right, everyone can think about gluten.

我们干脆直接去掉它，所有问题就都解决了。

Let's just get rid of that and all our problems are solved.

而不是思考，廉价三明治里的其他成分，你可能对哪些东西产生了反应？

Rather than thinking, what are all the other things in a cheap bread sandwich that you might be reacting to?

也可能是用来粘合面包的乳化剂，或者你吃的蛋黄酱里的乳化剂。

It also could be the emulsifier that is gluing that bread together or is in the mayonnaise that you're having.

也可能是某些色素，你知道的，让面包变白，或者让酱汁变成鲜黄色，你可能对这些成分不耐受。

It could be some of these colorants that are, you know, making the bread white or making that sauce bright yellow that you might be intolerant of.

制造商在这些食品中添加的成分越多，就越有可能其中某一种让你不适。

The more things that these manufacturers add to these foods, the more likely there is one that is disagreeing with you.

你最爱的三明治突然变成了你的头号敌人，因为它们是由聪明的科学家精心设计的，他们只关心你觉得它 irresistible，然后不断吃下去。

And your favorite sandwich suddenly becomes your worst enemy because they're just created by brilliant scientists to all they care about is you find it irresistible and keep eating it.

如果你吃的是健康的食物，就不会有这些问题。

If you eat the healthy stuff, you don't have these problems.

那这些呢？

What about these?

这些是杏仁。

These are almonds.

里面还有一些核桃。

Some walnuts in there as well.

你觉得杏仁怎么样？

What do you think of almonds?

我喜欢杏仁。

I love almonds.

它们对身体有益，许多研究显示它们对认知功能有好处，甚至对大脑健康和情绪也有轻微的积极影响。

They're good for you and lots of studies showing they're good for your cognition, even some mild effects on other aspects of brain health and mood.

这些对肠道健康有益。

These are good for gut health.

它们含有各种优质的脂肪。

They've got all kinds of really good fats in them.

比如这些Omega-3脂肪酸等等。

These omega-3s and etc.

坚果里含有这些成分。

Are in nuts.

所以它们是绝佳的零食，能让人有饱腹感，我通常推荐食用。

So they're a fantastic snack that do fill you up and generally recommend them.

我读过的关于核桃对大脑健康益处的研究，可能比杏仁的还要多。

Probably more data about walnuts than almonds for brain health that I've read about.

所以，有一些研究显示，人们多吃核桃是有帮助的。

So there are, you know, studies of people take a lot of walnuts, they help.

但我认为，不应该认为只有一种坚果对大脑有益。

But I think the idea shouldn't be there's only one type of nut that you should eat that's going to help your brain.

我们应当再次回到多样性的理念上。

We should, again, go back to this concept of diversity.

因此，混合坚果是你通过食用这些食物来促进大脑健康的最佳方式。

And so mixed nuts really are your best way of helping your brain health by eating these things.

我们过去曾妖魔化坚果，因为它们含有脂肪。

And we used to demonize nuts because they had fat in it.

当然，二十年前，人们认为花生和坚果对心脏非常有害。

Certainly when I was, you know, twenty years ago, you can't have peanuts and nuts, they're really bad for your heart.

现在我们完全扭转了这种看法。

Now we've totally reversed this.

我认为这充分说明了这个领域在相对较短的时间内发生了多大的变化。

And I just think it just shows how much has changed in this field in a relatively short time.

第七点是什么？

What's number seven?

第六点是避免高风险的加工食品。

So that number six was avoid high risk processed foods.

在选择食物时，尽量让盘子里的食物颜色丰富，因为这表明它们含有被称为多酚的化学物质。

Important when you're picking food to try and get as many colors on your plate as possible because that's a sign that they contain these chemicals called polyphenols.

天然的颜色。

Natural colors.

是的。

Yes.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

不是那种我们真的应该避免的蓝色色素，它们对你有害。

Not the blue colors you get that we really want to avoid, which are bad for you.

所以自然的颜色是这些食物对你有益的标志。

So natural colors are a sign that these foods are good for you.

我们说的是鲜艳的浆果，比如覆盆子、黑莓、草莓，我们说的是罗索罗生菜，我们说的是紫色的卷心菜。

So we're talking bright berries, we're talking raspberries, blackberries, strawberries, we're talking Rosololo lettuce, we're talking about cabbages that are purple.

我们说的是所有那些鲜艳的颜色，因为它们含有属于多酚类的化学物质，这些物质是肠道微生物的养料，使它们能够产生短链脂肪酸等物质，从而保持健康。

We're talking really all those bright colors because they contain chemicals that are from this family broadly called the polyphenols, which act as fuel for your gut microbes, and that allows them to then in turn produce things like short chain fatty acids and keeps them healthy.

所以这是大自然给我们的信号，表明我们在食用这些食物，这可能是我们的祖先早已知晓的信号；另一个我们无法仅凭外观判断但可以感知的信号是苦味。

So it's a sign from nature that we're eating these foods and it's a signal probably our ancestors knew And the other sign which we can't tell from looking at it but we get to know is bitterness.

因此，苦味植物通常比平淡无味的植物更健康。

So bitter plants tend to be much healthier than bland ones.

这就是西兰花的故事。

That's the broccoli story.

这就是特级初榨橄榄油对我们如此有益的原因，咖啡也是如此，红酒和黑巧克力也是。

That's why extra virgin olive oil is so good for us, why coffee is also good, why red wine and dark chocolate.

其中的多酚正在为我们的肠道微生物提供强大的支持。

It's those polyphenols in there that are really giving us our microbes a boost.

第八点，最后但同样重要的是。

And the eighth one, last but not least.

最后但同样重要的是，让你的肠道休息一下。

Last but not least, give your gut a rest.

禁食。

Fast.

是的，也就是限时进食。

Yes, so time restricted eating.

研究表明，这有助于你的肠道恢复正常的昼夜节律。

This has been shown to help your gut recover in a proper circadian rhythm.

这就像为你的肠道提供一个良好的夜间睡眠。

It's a bit like getting a good night's sleep for your gut.

我们都了解睡眠对我们的益处，但常常忽视了肠道健康。

So we all know the benefits of sleep for us, but we often disregard our gut.

很多人会在深夜吃零食，比如从酒吧回家路上吃一份烤肉串，或者其他类似的东西。

Many people have a late night snack, a kebab going home from the pub or whatever it is.

这对肠道健康来说完全是错误的做法。

It's completely the wrong thing to do for your gut health.

夜间禁食十二到十四小时，尽量将进食时间限制在十小时内，已被证明能带来代谢优势，改善肠道屏障，减少渗漏、炎症，并让肠道的清洁团队和微生物得以出来清理肠道。

Twelve to fourteen hour overnight fast, trying to restrict your eating time to ten hours really has been shown to have metabolic advantages for you and improves your gut lining, so it's less likely to leak and cause inflammation and allows the cleaning team and your microbes to come out and clean up your gut.

现在有大量研究证明它确实具有这些代谢优势，但最近我并没有那么大力推广，因为我们与Zoe合作开展了一项大规模的公民科学实验，超过十万人参与了这项实践。

The number of studies now showing that it does have these metabolic advantages, but I'm not pushing it so hard these days because we did do another massive citizen science study with Zoe with over 100,000 people doing this.

我们要求他们进行十四小时的限时进食。

We asked them to do fourteen hour time restricted eating.

三分之一的人放弃了。

A third gave up.

他们说：我做不到。

They said, I can't do this.

我总是觉得太饿了，需要吃点东西，比如杏仁。

I feel too hungry all the time I need to be snacking something like almonds.

三分之一的人非常喜欢，两年后他们仍在坚持。

A third loved it and they're still doing it two years later.

还有三分之一的人说，我会偶尔这么做。

And a third was sort of, Yeah, I'll do this sometimes.

我感觉这样更好。

I feel better on it.

所以我认为这其中存在个性化因素。

So I think there's a personalized element to it.

但如果你能做到，这真的很重要。

But if you can do it, it is really important.

我甚至会劝那些觉得困难的人，如果你能避免那些不健康的夜间零食，这对你肠道和大脑都会有很大影响。

And I would urge even the people that find it tough, if you can avoid that unhealthy late night snack, that can have a really big impact on your gut and your brain.

偶尔你会遇到一种产品，它对你的生活产生巨大影响，你可能会称之为改变游戏规则的东西。

Every once in a while, you come across a product that has such a huge impact on your life that you'd probably describe as a game changer.

我认为，我团队中大约有35%到40%的人会把我现在面前的这款产品——Ketone IQ（你可以在ketone.com购买）称为改变游戏规则的产品。

And I would say for about 35% to 40% of my team, they would currently describe this product that I have in front of me called Ketone IQ, which you can get at ketone.com as a game changer.

但我成为这家公司的联合所有者，以及为什么他们现在成为这个播客的赞助商，是因为有一天我来上班时，发现桌上放着一箱这个东西。

But the reason I became a co owner of this company and the reason why they they now are a sponsor of this podcast is because one day when I came to work, there was a box of this stuff sat on my desk.

我当时根本不知道这是什么。

I had no idea what it was.

莉莉和我的团队说，这家公司之前联系过我们。

Lily and my team says that this company have been in touch.

于是我上楼试了一下，老实说，之后的一切就顺理成章了。

So I went upstairs, tried it, and quite frankly, the rest is history.

就我的专注力、精力水平、感受、工作状态和效率而言，这真是改变游戏规则的产品。

In terms of my focus, my energy levels, how I feel, how I work, how productive I am, game changer.

如果你想试试，可以访问ketone.com/steven，享受30%的折扣。

So if you wanna give it a try, visit ketone.com/steven for 30% off.

你还会在第二次发货时获得一份免费赠品。

You'll also get a free gift with your second shipment.

现在你可以在美国各地的塔吉特商店找到Ketone IQ，而且你的第一次体验完全免费。

And now you can find Ketone IQ at Target stores across The United States, where your first shot is completely free of charge.

如果我们需要什么，那就是连接，尤其是在我们当今所处的世界中。

If there's anything we need, it is connection, especially in the world we're living in today.

这正是我们创建这些对话卡片的原因。

And that is exactly why we created these conversation cards.

因为在这个节目中，当我坐在这里与嘉宾进行深入、亲密的对话时，这种奇妙的事情一次又一次地发生。

Because on this show, when I sit here with my guests and have those deep, intimate conversations, this remarkable thing happens time and time again.

我们彼此之间感受到了深刻的连接。

We feel deeply connected to each other.

在每一集的结尾，我采访的嘉宾都会为下一位嘉宾留下一个问题，我们把这些问题是转化成了这些对话卡片。

At the end of every episode, the guest I'm interviewing leaves a question for the next guest, and we've turned them into these conversation cards.

我们还加入了这些转折卡片，让你们的对话更加有趣。

And we've added these twist cards to make your conversations even more interesting.

在对话卡片的使用过程中，还有更多意想不到的转折等待着你。

And there are so many more twists along the way with the conversation cards.

这是全新的新增内容。

This is the brand new addition.

而且首次，我在这套卡片中加入了一张金色卡片，这是来自我的专属问题。

And for the first time ever, I've added to the pack this gold card, which is an exclusive question from me.

但我只在初版对话卡片中放入金色卡片。

But I'm only putting the gold cards in the first run of conversation cards.

所以赶紧入手，限量版金色卡片售完即止。

So get yours now before the limited edition gold cards are all gone.

请前往下方描述中的链接。

Head to the link in the description below.

近年来，你对生酮饮食变得更加开放了。

You've become more open to keto in recent years.

是的。

Yes.

我会说我对生酮饮食充满好奇。

I would say I'm keto curious.

你对生酮饮食感兴趣。

You're keto curious.

是什么让你对生酮饮食感兴趣？

What's made you keto curious?

因为我觉得你以前对生酮饮食并不怎么感兴趣。

Because I don't think you were very keen on keto before

不，记得我们之前讨论时，我其实是反对的，你知道的。

for No, think when we discussed it, I was pretty anti it, you know.

但后来我读到了关于大脑的内容，了解到大脑代谢和脑部能量的重要性，经过更多研究后，我的想法有了一点转变，因为我们发现生酮饮食对难治性癫痫的效果非常出色。

But reading about the brain, how important metabolism of the brain, brain energy is, and doing more research has slightly changed my mind because what we've discovered is how amazing it is for chartered epilepsy.

它至今仍是治疗药物难治性癫痫的主要手段。

It is still used as the main treatment for drug resistant chartered epilepsy.

生酮饮食。

The keto diet.

生酮饮食。

The keto diet.

所以对于不了解的人，我们这里说的是，你正在将大脑的能量供应从葡萄糖切换为酮体，这是一种在进化过程中我们一直具备的机制，当无法获取食物时就会启动。

So for people who don't know, what we're talking about here is you're changing the energy supply of the brain from glucose to ketone bodies, which is a switch that we've always had in evolutionary terms when we couldn't get food.

因此，在大约两天不进食后，我们用尽了体内的葡萄糖储备，包括肌肉中的葡萄糖，然后就会切换到这种其他形式的能量，这是一种生存机制。

So after about two days of not having food, we've used up our glucose reserves, we used it up from our muscles, and you switch to this other form of energy, and it's a survival mechanism.

但这种切换往往会重置大脑，而在癫痫中，人们正是这样认为的。

But what it tends to do is reset the brain, and so in epilepsy, that's what they think.

这有点像重启你的电脑。

It's a bit of like rebooting your computer.

癫痫相当特殊，因为它过去曾被认为是精神疾病，正如我所说，因为你可能出现幻觉、妄想，它与抑郁有关，有趣的是，你可能会出现所有相同的精神疾病症状，而酮症饮食却能治愈它。

Epilepsy is rather strange because, and it used to be thought of as a mental illness, as I said, because you can get hallucinations, delusions, it's associated with depression, all the same, you can have all the same symptoms, you get all mental illnesses interestingly, and it can be cured by keto.

这让我好奇，还有哪些其他情况也与此相关。

So that made me curious as to what else is going on.

因此，理论上，一些其他精神健康问题也可能通过酮症饮食得到改善。

So in theory, some of the other mental health issues could be improved by keto.

但目前，尚缺乏足够可靠的证据。

At the moment, there isn't sufficient good evidence.

有很多轶事故事，比如七名患者的观察性研究，都是开放标签的，还不足以让我认为我们应该立即推行，但我认为确实值得开展一些严谨的研究。

There's lots of anecdotal stories, studies of seven patients, open label, not convincing enough for me to say, Let's do it, but I think definitely worth doing some real studies.

但同时也表明，即使你没有完全采用生酮饮食，仅仅通过改善新陈代谢和大脑获取能量的方式，也可能非常重要。

But also suggesting that even if you don't go as far as keto, just by improving the metabolism and how the brain is getting its energy could be really important.

我认为生酮饮食的有趣之处在于，作为一个时而进入、时而退出这种饮食的人，我之前给你看过，我手臂上戴着生酮监测仪，随时监控我的酮体水平，并与手机相连。

I think the interesting thing about the ketogenic diet, as someone that kind of cycles in and out of it, actually I showed you earlier, have ketone monitor on my arm, is monitoring my ketone levels at all times and connected to my phone.

我认为在我们所处的这个世界里，到处都是所谓的‘食物噪音’——无论你走到哪里，都会面临吃坏东西的诱惑。

I think the interesting thing is in the in the world we live in, where there's a lot of food noise as they call it, Everywhere you go, there's temptation to eat something bad.

你走在大街上，到处都是快餐店和垃圾食品店之类的东西。

You're going down the high street, there's takeaways and junk food stores and stuff like that.

我认为生酮饮食的作用——这一点你可能在任何研究中都看不到，我不知道你是否认同——它能帮助缓解食欲。

What I think keto does, which you're probably never going to see in a study, I don't know if you would, is it helps the craving.

它就像降低了食物噪音的音量。

It like dampens the food noise.

这就是为什么我觉得周期性地进出生酮饮食对我很有帮助，因为每年我都会经历几次，像我们桌上这些垃圾食品的渴望，会突然消失一段时间，哪怕只是短短一两周、两三周，甚至四周。

So this is part of why I think cycling in and out of it is quite useful for me because it means I have several moments in the year where my cravings for like this junk food, some of which we have on this table, just appear to vanish for a while, even if it's just for a week or two weeks or three weeks or four weeks.

这让我能够重新调整状态，重新掌握主动权。

And that allows me to kind of reset and kind of take back control of the steering wheel.

而在现代生活中，当你工作非常努力或经常出差、睡眠被打乱时，很容易陷入我们之前谈到的恶性循环：开始渴望糖分，吃了糖后感觉更累，于是更想躺下，接着就错过了健身，然后陷入同样的下滑轨迹。

Whereas it's very easy, especially in modern life when you're working really hard or you're traveling, you've got sleep disruption to get into that exact spiral we talked about where you get like cravings for sugar and then you eat sugar so you feel a bit more tired and you lay down a bit more and then you miss the gym and then you have the same downward spiral.

生酮饮食不断帮我摆脱这种风险。

Keto continually snaps me out of the chance of that.

这种状态能持续多久？

How long for that?

我最长坚持过六到八周。

Probably the longest I've done it is maybe six weeks or eight weeks.

但即使只坚持一周，也能让接下来的四到八周在各方面都更健康。

But even get, even doing it for, let's say one week for me, will then mean the preceding four, eight weeks are much healthier in every regard.

所以即使我停止生酮饮食，我的整体健康状况也更好。

So even when I come off it, I'm much healthier.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

这就是为什么我觉得很有趣，因为我认为长期坚持生酮饮食根本行不通，对吧？

That's why what's interested me because I think being on a long term keto diet is never going to work, right?

这太苛刻了，而且不利于肠道健康。

It's just too brutal and it's incompatible with keeping your gut happy.

所以对我来说，几乎没人能耐受这种饮食方式。

So to me, that's, I mean, very few people can tolerate it anyway.

你知道，这很难坚持。

As you know, it's tough.

如果我们能设计出一种方案，每三个月或六个月进行几天生酮，只需足够让身体和大脑重启，同时通过服用Daily 30或其他不影响生酮状态但能维护肠道健康的物质来保护肠道，那么我认为这或许对大脑健康问题有实际应用价值。

If we can come up with a regime that every three or every six months, you had a few days of going into keto just enough to reset your body and your brain, and at the same time you protected your gut, say by taking Daily 30 or other things that weren't gonna get you out of keto but could keep your gut in the right place, then I think we could potentially have something of practical use for brain health issues.

我很想进一步探索这个方向。

And I'd love to do more.

我计划今年晚些时候亲自测试一下，看看能否在保持肠道微生物健康的同时进行一周的生酮饮食。

I'm planning at some point later in this year to test myself and see if I can do a week of keto whilst keeping my gut microbes happy.

你以前试过生酮饮食吗？

Have you ever done keto?

没有真正试过，没有。

Not properly, no.

你知道，如果你为了做结肠镜检查而禁食24小时，那时你差不多已经进入生酮状态了，但你还有其他更紧迫的事要操心，比如上厕所，这会分散你的注意力。

You know, if you've done a twenty four hour fast for a colonoscopy, you are just about getting into keto at the time you're doing it, but you've got other things to worry about, like going to the toilet to distract you.

我觉得这正是关键所在，因为我们讨论过身体的整体性，它有多么相互关联，大脑和肠道之间有多么紧密的联系，诸如此类。

I think this is really it because we talked about how holistic the whole picture of the body is and how it's so interconnected and how the brain is so connected to the gut and all these things.

而实行生酮饮食时，我感觉重新获得了掌控感，这种感觉进而对我的整个人生产生了更广泛的整体影响，比如我作为播客主持人表达自我的能力。

And there's something about doing the ketogenic diet, which just, it feels like I get control back in a way that then has this bigger holistic effect on my life, my ability of everything in my life, like my ability to articulate myself as a podcaster.

我其实听乔·罗根也说过同样的话。

I had actually Joe Rogan say the same thing.

他曾说过，当他处于生酮状态时，表达能力和思维清晰度的提升是如此显著——作为一个要做四小时直播的播客主持人，他几乎会为了这种认知上的清晰感而永远保持生酮状态。

I had him say that words to the effect of the fact that when he's in ketosis, it's so profound, his ability to articulate himself and think as someone that does four hour podcasts, that he would almost stay in it forever just for that particular cognitive benefit of like mental clarity.

我总是对我的团队说，当我处于‘不死少年’状态时，我感觉世界就像高清画质一样，我的嘴巴和大脑突然连在了一起，我总说我的嘴和脑现在是连通的。

And I always say to my team that when I'm The Kid Who Don't Die, I feel like I'm looking at the world like this, like everything's high definition and my mouth and brain are like, I always say my mouth and brain are connected suddenly.

嗯，其他人也跟我说过类似的事，他们确实会感受到这种清晰感，这或许只是对长时间空腹带来的益处的一种更夸张的描述。

Well, I've had other people say this, that they do get this sort of clarity, which could be a more exaggerated way of feeling that benefit of a long overnight fast.

当你在十四小时未进食后，像这样做播客时。

When you come in after fourteen hours without eating and you're doing a podcast like this.

是的，我确实感觉比刚吃了一顿丰盛的英式早餐要好得多。

Yeah, I definitely do feel better than if I'd had a big English breakfast just before.

但我认为危险在于，如果人们忽视了肠道微生物组而这样做，任何优势都会因免疫细胞和身体其他部位出现的问题而迅速抵消。

But I think the danger is that, you know, if people disregard their gut microbiome and do this, any advantage would be wiped out so quickly by the problems of what's happening to your immune cells and everything else in your body.

所以，如果我们能找到一种间歇性的折中方式，同时还能照顾好肠道，那我同意这会很棒。

So if we can find this intermittent middle way while you can still look after your gut, then I agree that would be cool.

但我找不到什么可靠的数据，只有些轶事，比如那些狂热者会说这对他们的病人非常好，但没有对照组，因为肯定也有很大的安慰剂效应。

But I couldn't find any good data on this apart from anecdotes of, you know, fanatics who will obviously say it's great for their patients, but without any control group, because it must be a big placebo effect as well.

当你这样做时，很难避免安慰剂效应。

It's very hard to not have a placebo effect when you're doing that.

我的意思是，你拼命地去做这些事，正如我所说，人们会得酮流感，而且在进入状态的过程中，据说会相当难受。

I mean, you're struggling so hard to do things that, as I say, you know, people get keto headaches and they get, you know, as you go into it, people say it can be quite rough.

所以你无法对自己进行双盲实验。

So you can't double blind yourself.

但我认为这很有趣，就像逆转二型糖尿病能改善心理健康一样，如果你改变了大脑的能量水平，也可能产生其他效果。

But I think it is fascinating that in the same way that reversing type two diabetes improves your mental health, it makes sense that if you're switching energy levels in the brain, you could also do things.

别忘了像电休克疗法这样的方法，它仍然是有效的治疗方法。

And let's not forget things like ECT, still an effective treatment.

那就是大脑的重置。

That's brain reset.

有时候，我们可能会回到精神病学的旧时代，那时我们还没有陷入对神经化学物质的痴迷，而是采取一种整体性的视角，我觉得这非常有趣。

Sometimes, you know, we may end up going back to the old era of psychiatry where, you know, before we got into this obsession with neurochemicals to have this holistic view, which I think is really fascinating.

当你做脑部扫描时，发现你的血液中环境微塑料含量处于前百分之二十的水平。

And when you did that brain scan, you found that you're in the highest twenty percent for levels of environmental microplastics in your blood.

是的，这有点吓人。

Yeah, that was a bit scary.

他们将微塑料分为两类，大致按其尺寸划分。

They divide the microplastics into two groups, sort of the dimensions of them.

我当时很担心，是不是吃了太多微塑料？

I was concerned, was I eating a lot of microplastics?

结果发现，我体内含量更高的其实是那些通过肺部进入的微小颗粒，这可能意味着我一生都生活在伦敦，六十年来吸入了大量灰尘和其他污染物。

And it turned out that the higher levels I had were actually the smaller ones that you get through your lungs, which probably means a life, having lived a life in London, you know, six decades in London probably wasn't very good for getting all this dust and things in there.

这让我有点担心，很可能是因为过去三十年我一直在伦敦骑自行车。

That was a bit of a worry, and that's probably because I cycle around London a lot in the last thirty years.

在这方面你有做出什么改变吗？

Have you changed anything in that regard?

我仍然在骑自行车。

I still cycle.

我不喜欢戴口罩。

I don't like wearing a mask.

我知道我大概应该戴的。

I know I sort of probably should.

我家里新安装了一个净水过滤器，以去除一些化学物质和部分塑料微粒。

And I've put a new water filter in my home to take out some of these chemicals and at least some of those plastics.

但我对它们到底有多糟糕仍持保留态度。

I'm still not totally convinced on how bad they are.

关于科学方面，我认为这个问题还没有真正解决，但我正在密切关注。

And the science, I don't think really we've resolved that issue yet, but it's something I'm looking at closely.

我认为，如果有什么简单的事情可以做，我会尽量避免使用塑料容器。

And I think if there's something easy you can do, I try and avoid plastic containers.

我会尽量避免使用塑料瓶。

I try and avoid plastic bottles.

我认为这对地球也有好处。

And I think that's good for the planet as well.

有没有办法

Is there a way

一旦微塑料进入体内，能将它们清除出去吗？

to take these microplastics out of our body once they're in there?

据一些传闻，人们提到像血浆置换这样的方法。

Anecdotally, they say things like plasmapheresis.

你可以去洛杉矶的一家水疗中心，把血浆抽出、过滤后再输回体内。

You you can go to a spa in LA and get your plasma taken out and filtered and put back into your body.

这是从你的血液中来的。

This is from your blood.

但我认为目前还没有任何真正让我信服的临床试验值得去做。

But I don't think there's any real clinical trials that satisfy me that would be worth.

而且每次费用大约是1万美元，所以这并不是一项便宜的程序。

And they cost, I think they're sort of $10,000 a go, so it's not a cheap process to have that done.

所以我们还是等等看吧。

So we'll wait and see.

但目前来说，是的，这确实令人担忧，但我认为环境中还有其他可能更严重的问题。

But at the moment, yeah, it's a worry, but I think there are other things in the environment that are probably worse.

比如灰尘、农药。

You know, dust, pesticides.

吃有机食品比担心塑料更好吗？

Is it better to have organic food rather than worry about plastics?

我们还不知道这些问题的答案。

We don't know the answer to these problems.

你对GLP-1类药物，比如Ozempic和Wegovy——不管怎么叫——用于减肥的注射剂，还有现在人们服用的口服片剂，怎么看？

How is your views on GLP-1s like Ozempic and Wegovia, whatever it's called, injections and I think now tablets people are taking for weight loss.

你对这些药物的看法是如何演变的？

How has your views on those evolved?

它们是好是坏，有什么不同？

Are they good, bad and different?

无论如何，它们都会成为我们生活的一部分。

They're going to be a part of our life anyway.

它们将以我们目前无法想象的方式改变医学和肥胖治疗，尤其是今年口服药片已经上市，并且在许多国家即将专利到期。

So they're going to transform medicine and obesity in a way we can't imagine at the moment, especially now this year that the pills are available and it's coming off patent in many countries.

所以价格会便宜很多。

So it'd be much cheaper.

我认为对于真正需要这些药物的人而言，它们是极其有效的药物。

I think for people who really need them, they're an incredible drug.

唯一的问题是，你很难真正停用它们。

The only problem is you can't really come off them.

所以这些药基本上得终身服用。

So they're pretty much for life.

我第一个担心的是，很多人在没有监督的情况下服用这些药，而且没人告诉他们要改变饮食。

My first worry is that a lot of people take them without supervision and they are not told to change their diet.

我真心希望人们能服用这些药物。

I'd love people to take the drugs.

他们的饥饿感会消失。

Their hunger signal gets switched off.

然后他们就能对自己的饮食更加用心。

They can then be mindful about their food.

他们可以利用像Zoe应用这样的工具，或者其他一些教育项目，在这个关键窗口期内永久改变饮食习惯。

They could do something like you know, have the Zoe app or some other educational program to change their food habits forever in that window of opportunity.

我认为，这才是我们应该关注的方向，但目前却完全被忽视了。

And that, I think, is where we should be doing, and that's been completely ignored at the moment.

几乎没有人同时获得药物治疗和生活方式指导。

Virtually nobody's getting that lifestyle advice as well as the drug.

所以他们失败了，又回到原状，反复波动，陷入了最糟糕的境地。

And so they're failing, they're going back in it, they're yo yoing, and they're getting the worst of the world.

我们还需要留意的另一个轻微担忧是，它们对大脑的长期影响。

The other slight worry we need to keep an eye on is the long term effects on the brain.

到目前为止，数据显示，它不仅能逆转糖尿病，还能降低患痴呆症的风险。

So far, the data suggests that it does reduce your chances of getting dementia even beyond reversing diabetes.

因此，它似乎具有保护大脑的作用，可能是因为它具有抗炎效果。

So it looks like it's brain protective, probably because it might have anti inflammatory effects.

它能减少赌博和成瘾行为。

It reduces things like gambling and addictions.

所以我们还不清楚它是如何做到这一点的，但如果它削弱了你的一些基本冲动，比如我喜欢冒险、喜欢吸毒、喜欢吸烟、喜欢赌马。

So we don't really know how it does that, but if it takes away some of your drives, those basic drives to say, I like to take risks, you know, I like to take drugs, I like to smoke, I like to gamble on horses.

这会不会在长期上改变你这个人，比如让你不再那么有企业家精神。

Is it in some way changing you as a person long term in that you might be less good as an entrepreneur, for example.

所以我认为这一点非常值得持续关注。

So that is something I think that's really interesting to follow.

但总的来说，我认为从公共卫生的角度来看，这长期来看可以为医疗系统节省数千亿美元，我们应当更加重视，并将其纳入全面的健康与教育建议中。

But in general, I think from a public health perspective, this could save health systems hundreds of billions long term, and we ought to be taking it much more seriously and integrating it into holistic and educational advice.

关于脑健康，你的脑健康计划中也包含桑拿疗法吗？

And as it relates to brain health, you also have a sauna routine as part of your brain health regime?

是的，我对这方面 emerging 的科学成果印象深刻，而且我自己确实很享受这个过程，从享乐主义的角度来看。

Yeah, I've been impressed by some of the science coming out of this and the fact that I quite enjoy, just actually enjoy it from a hedonistic point of view.

所以如果可能的话，我每周会做两次桑拿，最好之后再进行冷水浴，但科学界还不确定冷水浴是否能带来显著差异。

So I try and have a sauna twice a week if I can do that, ideally with a cold plunge afterwards, but the science isn't sure whether that makes a big difference.

这就像对你全身和大脑的血管进行了一次锻炼。

It's like just a workout for your blood vessels in your body and your brain.

所以我认为科学证据相当有说服力，而且它确实让我感觉良好——这本就应该是任何人健康计划的一部分。

So I think that the science is quite compelling and yeah, it makes me feel good, which is always should be part of anyone's health routine.

你享受的事情，总是容易坚持的。

Something you enjoy doing is always easy.

定期社交也是你脑健康计划的一部分吗？

And regular socializing is part of your brain routine?