优步CEO：在优步，绩效不佳者将被淘汰！公司曾年亏损30亿美元

所以他竞标了一家公司。

So he bid for a company.

他没竞标成功。

He didn't get it.

他没竞标成功。

He didn't get it.

然后他退出了。

And he walked away.

他没竞标成功是因为他退出了，回头来看，这是一个错误。

He didn't get it because he walked away, which in hindsight was a, was a mistake.

他本可以出更高的价。

He could have paid more.

在他退出的公告中，我认为公告写的是：他们赢了，我们输了，下一个。

And then in the release where he walked away, I think the release was they won, we lost, next.

他就像一台永不停歇的机器，总是说：他们赢了，我们输了，下一个。

And he was a constant motion machine like they won, we lost, next.

接下来做什么？

What's next?

走吧。

Let's go.

这就是我想为之工作的那种人。

That's the kind of person I wanted to work for.

在商业中，失败是其中一部分

In business, losing is part

游戏的一部分。

of the game.

当然。

Absolutely.

当然。

Absolutely.

但接着指出来。

But but then calling it out.

你知道的，别扯淡。

You know, not bullshitting.

别说什么‘我们尽力了，但环境不利，他们赢了，我们输了’这种话。

Not like, oh, we tried our best and the circumstances, They won, we lost.

下一个。

Next.

没关系。

It's okay.

输的方式重要吗？

Does it matter how you lose?

当然重要。

Absolutely it does.

确实很重要。

They absolutely it does.

我发现公司通常犯两种错误。

It's and I find companies guilty of two things.

比如一种是忽视亏损，掩盖亏损之类的，对吧？

Like one is ignoring losses, like papering over losses, etcetera, right?

然后有时候又对亏损过于执着，反复检查，分析发生了什么，做个总结，讨论哪里出了问题等等。

And then sometimes being obsessive about the loss, inspecting it, what happened, let's do a summary, let's meet what went wrong, etcetera.

对我来说，这中间有个平衡点：承认自己输了，承认亏损的原因，说出来，因为这很重要，然后分析它，但接着就放下。

And, and, you know, for me it's somewhere in the middle, which is recognize why you lost, recognize that you lost, say it because it's important to say it, analyze it, but then move on.

咱们继续前进吧。

Like let's move on.

下一次，你希望从中学会某种判断力，以避免类似的亏损，但这并不意味着你就能完全避免失败。

And the next time you hope to have learned some kind of judgment to avoid that kind of a loss, but it doesn't mean you're going to avoid losing at all.

如果你不尝试，你就不会失误，也不会输。

Like if you're not taking shots, you're not missing, you're not losing.

所以对我来说，就是不断前进、尝试、失败、学习，再继续，再失败、再学习、再继续。

So for me, it's constantly moving and taking your shots, losing, learning, next, losing, learning, next.

这种持续的行动才是我想要看到的。

That constant motion is what I want to see.

这种持续的行动与学习才让我感到兴奋。

That constant motion and learning is what excites me.

这既是商业建议，也是普遍的人生建议，因为我遇到的很多人，那些主动来找我提问的人，常常提出的问题听起来和你刚才说的非常相似。

This is business advice, but also life advice generally, because a lot of people, who I meet, who come up to me and ask me questions about things, often ask questions that sound a lot like what you just said.

这关乎如何应对拒绝、如何接受失败，以及这种失败如何长期困扰他们——有时长达十年，甚至十五年，阻碍他们前进，打击他们的自信，使他们不敢再尝试，从而引发一种自信下滑的恶性循环。

It's dealing with rejection, dealing with taking an L, and how that L then stays with them, sometimes for a decade, sometimes for fifteen years, and and holds them back, hurts their confidence, means that they don't take any more shots, and this can cause a a sort of a downward confidence spiral.

完全正确。

Totally.

而且说实话，我嘴上说得漂亮，但我要告诉你，在我的个人生活中，我根本无法应对拒绝。

And and listen, I'm I'm talking a big game, but I will tell you, in my personal life, I can't deal with rejection.

我很难处理拒绝。

I have a really hard time dealing with rejection.

在职业生活中，我完全没问题。

Professional life, no problem whatsoever.

归根结底，我们终究都是普通人。

So it's like in the end, we're all humans after all.

你在个人生活中很难应对拒绝吗？

You have a a difficulty dealing with rejection in your personal life?

非常难。

Very much.

是的。

Yeah.

什么样的拒绝？

What kind of rejection?

任何形式的拒绝或冲突。

Any kind of rejection conflict.

比如，这一直是困扰我一生的问题，因为我是最小的堂弟，也是最小的兄弟，我总是没有话语权。

Like it's something that has been, that I fought my whole life, which is because I was one of the younger cousins, because I was the youngest brother, I just kind of didn't have rights.

所以我一直随波逐流。

So I was I went with the flow.

随波逐流就意味着顺应潮流，等等。

And going with the flow means you're going with the current, etcetera.

我没有惹麻烦。

I didn't cause trouble.

这一直伴随着我的个人生活。

And that has followed me in my personal life.

在我的职业生活中，我在这方面没那么多困扰。

In my professional life, I don't have as much trouble there.

我想我的职业生活某种程度上是一种伪装，因为我可以表现得具有攻击性。

I guess my professional life to some extent is a mask because I get to be aggressive.

我可以输，等等。

I get to lose, etcetera.

这多亏了我妻子西德的帮助。

It's something that Sid, my wife, has really helped me with.

但在我的个人生活中，我通常都是回避冲突的。

But it is something in my personal life that generally I'm conflict avoiding.

你在个人生活中回避冲突。

You're conflict avoidant in your personal life.

有意思。

Interesting.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

这在一段关系中不太好。

That's not good in a relationship.

嗯。

No.

嗯。

No.

这就是为什么这对我有帮助。

That's why that's why it's helping me out.

我现在好多了。

I'm much better now.

是的。

Yeah.

我好多了。

I'm much better.

但当我面对这些问题时，我必须与自己斗争。

But it's it's when I take those issues on, I have to fight myself.

有一些核心的东西，你知道，如果你和我之间有矛盾的话。

There's some core, you know, if, if you and I were having an issue.

是的。

Yeah.

当我坐下来对你说：嘿，我对X或Y不满意。

And I'm sitting down with you and saying, hey, I'm not, I'm not happy about X or Y.

我能感觉到内心有个声音在说：算了吧。

I can feel there's a core of me saying, just let it go.

但正是这样，怨恨才逐渐积累，关系在长时间内也开始走向错误的方向。

But that's how resentment builds and that's how relationships, over a long period of time start moving the wrong way.

所以这确实是我内心的一部分，但我一直在主动对抗它。

So it is something that is at my core, but I actively fight.

我在这方面正在变得更好，但我仍然处于学习的过程中。

And I'm getting better at it, but I'm still on a learning journey there.

我告诉你吧。

I'll tell you that.

后来你最终成为了Expedia的首席执行官吗？

Eventually, you go on to becoming the CEO of Expedia?

是的。

Yes.

在你之前有过几位首席执行官，但没错。

After, there was a couple of CEOs that came before you, but Yeah.

你成为了第三任，并带领这家公司前行。

You became the third and took that company on.

从投资银行转行做首席执行官，是完全不同的工作。

Very different job going from investment banking to being a CEO.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这中间有一段旅程，因为我从银行转去做并购交易，那时我就意识到自己很欣赏公司是如何运作的。

Now there was a journey there because I went from banking to running deals and I knew that I knew that I liked how companies worked.

我喜欢投资银行的一点是，我能接触到很多东西。

The thing that I liked about investment banking was that I got to see a lot there.

我能见到非常聪明的人，看到很棒的公司成长，但我无法亲身参与这段旅程。

I got to see really smart people, really cool companies build, but I couldn't go along with that journey.

我羡慕那些首席执行官们所走的路。

I was jealous of the journey that these CEOs were moving on.

所以当并购成为通往公司内部、参与建设公司的桥梁时，我就从并购转到了财务总监（CFO）的职位，因为这在某种程度上仍是金融工作，但同时也是首席执行官的合作伙伴，协助CEO打造公司。

So then when M and A was a bridge to work at a company and build, the company, I moved from M and A to CFO, Chief Financial Officer, because that's a, that's, that's to some extent finance, but it's also being the CEO's partner and helping the CEO build.

所以我一直很清楚自己想走的方向，那就是：总有一天，我想真正成为一名管理者。

So I always knew the direction that I want to go in, which is, hey, at some point I want to actually be an operator.

然后我有了接手Expedia的机会。

And then I had the opportunity to take over Expedia.

当时的CEO埃里克·布拉奇福德说，嗯，大公司的事儿，不适合我。

The CEO at the time, Eric Blatchford kind of said, yeah, big company thing, not for me.

于是他辞职了。

So he resigned.

老实说，巴里当时并没有其他人选。

And honestly, Barry didn't have an alternative.

巴里现在成了CEO。

Barry was the CEO now.

巴里是IAC的CEO兼董事长，而IAC是后来成为Expedia、IAC Travel的母公司。

Barry was the CEO and chairman of IAC, which was a parent company of what became Expedia, IAC Travel.

IAC Travel的负责人辞职了。

The head of IAC Travel resigned.

我举手说，也许我可以试试。

I raised my hand and said, maybe I could do it.

巴里非常着急。

Barry was desperate.

他别无他人可选。

He had no one else.

于是他提拔我担任IAC Travel的CEO。

So he promoted me to be CEO of IAC Travel.

当时IAC Travel正经历一些困难时期。

And IAC Travel was going through some difficult times.

所以我们把它分拆为Expedia。

So we spun it off as, at, at Expedia.

那就是我成为Expedia这家上市公司的CEO的时候。

So that's when I became the CEO of Expedia, the public company.

于是我搬到了西雅图。

And I moved to The Netherlands of of, Seattle.

在你担任首席执行官之前，你的工作是收购企业。

In your job, just before you took on that role as CEO, you were buying businesses.

所以是并购，你一直在收购公司。

So m and a's, mergers and acquisitions, you were buying companies.

是的。

Yes.

你收购过哪些公司？

What are some of the companies that you bought?

哦，我们收购了很多公司。

Oh, we bought a lot of companies.

我们收购了Ticketmaster。

We bought Ticketmaster.

我们收购了Match.com。

We bought match.com.

收购了Expedia、Hotels.com。

Bought Expedia, hotels.com.

这一切都围绕着巴里和我着迷的主题展开，那就是商业向线上的转移。

And, and it was all about the theme that Barry and I were, fascinated with was the movement of commerce online.

你知道，那正是那个时期。

You know, it was, it was during that, time.

那是九十年代末、两千年初。

It was the late, late nineties, early two thousand.

我们真的亲眼见证了这一变化，比如家庭购物，对吧？

And, and we saw it happening with our very own eyes really with home shopping, right?

那是一个平板屏幕。

It was, it's a flat screen.

那是一台电视，你在上面展示商品，人们打电话订购这些产品。

It was a television and you were offering products and people were calling up buying those products electronically.

只是媒介从电视屏幕变成了互联网屏幕。

And just the medium changed, a medium changed from a TV screen to an internet screen.

人们不再打电话，而是使用HTTP。

And instead of calling, you could use, HTTP.

因此，尽管媒介发生了变化，我们还是看到了利用这一平台变革的机会。

And so while the medium changed, we kind of saw this opportunity to take advantage of the, of the change of platform.

所以，Match.com在早期，你知道，在线约会时，你会拨打一个号码，然后说：‘我叫达拉，身高六英尺二英寸。’

So match.com, essentially in the olden days, you know, you had online dating, but you would call a number and you'd be like, my name is Dara and I'm six foot two.

这就是你描述自己的方式。

And this is how you describe yourself.

然后你会听到其他人的录音，并根据听起来不错的人进行匹配。

And you hear other kind of, recordings and you would get matched up based on someone who seemed nice.

而这一切都转移到了线上。

And all of that just moved online.

这就是Batch.com的运作方式。

That was what batch.com was.

Ticketmaster也是同样的情况。

Same thing with Ticketmaster.

你知道，在过去，你会去Tower Records。

You know, in the olden days you would go to a Tower Records.

你去过Tower Records吗？

Have you ever been to a Tower Records?

是的。

Yeah.

你也是，对。

You're too, yeah.

那时候有一种地方叫唱片店，店里还设有柜台出售演唱会门票。

So there were these things called record stores and they also had a desk where they would sell concert tickets.

所以你要么打电话买演唱会门票，要么亲自去店里购买。

So you would either call for a concert ticket or you would physically go and buy one.

太神奇了。

Amazing.

那时候还有排长队买Tower Records门票的情况。

And there were lines, tower record lines.

那是什么？

What's that?

所有这些都完全转移到了线上，旅行也是如此，对吧？

And all of that exactly moved online and same thing with travel, right?

你会打电话给旅行社。

You would call a travel agent.

因此，零售和电话销售都逐渐转向了在线商业。

And so all of, there was this movement of retail and phone commerce to online commerce.

我们识别出了推动这一转变的早期企业，而个人服务、票务和旅行正是我们选择的方向，因为当时亚马逊已经在做其他所有事情，比如实体商品配送。

And we identified the early players to make that shift and personals, ticketing, travel were the ones that we went with, went for because at the time Amazon was doing everything else like physical fulfillment.

所以我们关注的是那些不需要实体配送的电子交易。

So what we were going for were essentially electronic transactions that did not require physical fulfillment.

旅行就是其中之一，因为你知道，它是一种虚拟商品；还有票务、Match.com，也就是交友服务。

And that was travel because, you know, it's a virtual good, ticketing, match.com, which which was personal.

所以当时围绕着这些领域存在一种模式，但我们都出去收购了这些公司。

So there was a pattern around the men, so to speak, but we went out and bought all these companies.

那真是一个非常棒的时期。

It was a really great time.

我当时有两个问题浮现出来。

I've got two questions that emerged then.

一个是，我非常想知道你是如何寻找人才的，或者你如何看待一家优秀公司的标准。

One one is, again, I'm really interested to understand how you would look for talent or how what how you think about what a great company is.

你们会关注公司文化吗？

Are there like we we looking at the company culture?

你们会关注创始人吗？

We looking at the founders?

还有其他因素吗？

Was there something else?

是盈利能力吗？

Was it the profitability?

另一个问题是，我对这段时期以及之后你学到的如何在变革中发现机会感到非常好奇。

And the other one is just really intrigued as to what this period of your life and thereafter taught you about how to spot opportunity in transition.

因为那正是技术变革的关键时刻。

Because that is a transitional moment of technology.

我认为，在这种充满巨大怀疑的转型时刻，人们可以培养出某种模式识别能力，从而知道该押注什么。

And I think there is a certain pattern recognition one can develop as to, like, know what to bet on in these moments of transition where there's huge skepticism.

互联网将无所作为。

The Internet's gonna not do anything.

这是两个问题。

It's a two so questions.

第一个是，你如何发现伟大的公司？

Want is like how do you spot great companies?

第二个是转型中的模式。

And then the second is like patterns in transition.

我认为它们是相关的，因为我们正是通过观察谁在这些转型中脱颖而出，来发现伟大的公司的。

So they're, I'd say that they're related, which is, we would spot great companies just by observing who is taking the lead in these transitions.

你知道，这些转型是很困难的。

You know, these transitions are difficult.

你无法准确预测事情会走向何方、进展有多快、应该投入多少、回报是多少、市场会有多大。

You can't predict exactly where things are going, how quickly they're going, how much should you invest, what's a return, what, what the, what the market, how large is the market going to be.

但有一些公司正在崛起成为领导者，我们就只是识别出这些领导者，然后直接打电话给他们，说我想来和你们聊聊。

But there were companies that were emerging as the leaders and we would just, I just identify the leaders and cold call these folks up and say, I want to come in and talk to you.

就是这样。

Like that was, that was it.

在某种程度上，这是一个自我强化的循环：真正优秀的管理团队和创始人，正是那些能够率先发现机会、比任何人都更快抓住机会、识别机会并迅速执行的人。

And to some extent it's a self reinforcing cycle, which is yes, the great management teams and the great founders were the ones who were able to identify the opportunity and hit that opportunity faster than anyone else, recognize that opportunity and execute on that opportunity faster than anyone else.

因此，在某种程度上，处于领先地位的公司，自然拥有最优秀的管理团队和创始团队。

So to some extent, the companies who were in the lead, of course, had the best management teams and had the best founding teams.

当这两者吻合时，我们就果断出手。

And when those two things matched, that was when we jumped.

关于这种模式识别，我想告诉你的最后一点是，我们从未因为以低价购入公司而成功完成过一笔交易。

And then the last thing I would tell you in terms of these pattern, recognitions is that we never completed a successful deal because we got the company cheap.

实际上，我们为每一间我们收购的优秀公司都支付了过高价格，但我们的高价是基于当时市场所认为的价值，而非最终现实情况。

We actually overpaid for every single great company that we bought, but we overpaid based on what the market thought at the time, not what the reality turned out to be.

所以我认为，我在模式识别方面的一个关键点是：人类因为时间是线性的，所以总是以线性方式思考成功和转型。

So I do think one of the kind of pieces of pattern recognition with me is just humans think about success and transitions in a linear way because time is linear.

你的意思是，也许有人并不只是认为它会这样发展？

Would you mean perhaps someone that doesn't just, they think of it going like this?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，所有事情都是这样发展的，对吧？

You know, it's, it's the, everything kind of moves this way, right?

所以你的日程安排是相对线性的，对吧？

So your, your schedule is relatively linear, right?

你每天睡七个小时。

It's, you sleep seven hours a day.

你的生活是一种线性的生活。

Like your life is a linear life.

但公司、公司成功和公司势头，尤其是在新技术领域，如果某项技术在虚拟世界中真正优于其他技术，那就没有任何阻力阻碍它。

But company and company success and company momentum, especially with new technologies where if there's a technology that's truly better than the other technology within the virtual world, there's absolutely no friction holding it back.

这些公司在增长和最终价值方面都是呈指数级发展的。

The, the, these companies move in an exponential way in terms of their growth and ultimately in terms of their value.

所以大多数人看待事物时，当他们展望未来时，看到的是这种模式。

So whereas most people kind of see things, they, they, when they project out to the, to the future, they see this.

但实际上发生的是这种模式。

What actually happens is this.

哦，冰球杆状增长。

Oh, hockey stick.

而机会就在这里。

And that's where the opportunity is.

就在于冰球杆状增长和直线增长之间的差距。

It's the, it's the spread between the hockey stick and kind of the straight line.

而人们很难理解这一点。

And it's very difficult for people to process that.

所以，那些我们识别出的具有冰球杆状增长趋势的公司就是这样。

And so that was, you know, those were the companies that we identified that hockey stick.

然后，在线旅游也是一个冰球杆状增长的例子。

Then online travel was a hockey stick.

个人服务是一个指数增长型行业。

Personals was a hockey stick.

票务也是一个指数增长型行业。

Ticketing was a hockey stick.

我听说的是杰文斯悖论吗？

I heard about the is it Jevons paradox?

是的。

Yes.

我觉得这和你刚才说的有点相似。

Which I think kind of sort of overlaps with what you're saying there.

当事物变得更简单、更快、更便宜时，人们不是稍微多做一点，而是极其频繁地去做。

When things become easier, faster, cheaper, people do them not incrementally more, but ex like exceptionally more often.

我的意思是，这正是优步的定义，我们稍后可以谈到这一点，它最初是作为黑色出租车服务，或者说黑色轿车服务建立的。

I mean that that's the definition of Uber, and we can get to that at some point, was, originally it was built as a black cab service, so to speak, a black car service.

你能告诉我它最初是从哪里来的吗？

Can you tell me that's a that where it came from?

因为很多人已经向前发展了。

Because a lot of people history has now moved forward.

是的。

Yeah.

很多

Lot of

人们已经忘记了它诞生的故事。

people have forgotten the story of how it came to be.

在某种程度上，创始发生在我之前。

Now to some extent it was, well, to a large extent it was, that the founding was, was before me.

但创始人之一杰坎普有这个想法，我认为它诞生于巴黎。

But it was, Gercamp who was one of the founders had this idea, and I think it was born in Paris.

那是巴黎的一个下雪天，他们找不到黑色轿车。

It was like a snowy day in Paris and they couldn't find a black car.

是一群年轻的科技小伙子。

And it was a bunch of young, young tech guys.

要是能拿起手机叫一辆黑车，那该多酷啊？

Like how cool would it be to like pick up my phone and call a black car?

这就是核心想法：你可以用手机叫一辆黑车。

And that was the, the core idea, which is, hey, you can use your phone to call a black car.

他邀请了特拉维斯·卡兰尼克加入。

He brought on, Travis Kalanick.

特拉维斯是运营者，也是创始人。

Travis was the operator and, and the founder.

正如你和杰万所指出的，在某种程度上，人们会想：黑车市场的规模有多大？

And to, to your point and Jevan's paradox to some extent, people thought, well, what's the size of the black car market place?

那是个几十亿美元的市场。

And it was a couple billion dollars.

那出租车行业规模又有多大呢？

Or what's the size of the taxi industry?

那可是远远超过几十亿美元的规模。

And it was, more than a couple of billion dollars.

但他们当时没有意识到，如果你大幅提升了便利性或降低了成本，市场会超出你原本的计算范围而扩大。

But what they didn't see at the time was that as you improve the con if you radically make something either more convenient or cheaper, the market expands beyond how you calculate it.

因此，如今Uber的规模远远超出了最初的黑色轿车或出租车市场。

So the Uber size and scale now is way beyond the original marketplace of black cars and or taxis.

它如今是一家公司，

It's company today

这正是杰文悖论的结果。

is a result of Jevan's paradox.

时机。

Timing.

我们常常不太重视时机的运气。

We often don't think much about the luck of timing.

用‘运气’这个词很有趣，但时机的重要性确实不容忽视。

Luck is an interesting word to use, but how important timing is Sure.

还有其他一些基础性因素，使得像Uber这样的公司得以存在。

And other sort of foundational factors are in enabling a company like Uber to exist.

当你思考Uber的时机时，有哪些基础条件让它成为可能？

When you think about the timing of Uber, what are the sort of the foundations that made it possible?

哦，那是移动革命。

Oh, it was it was a mobile revolution.

是移动数据技术与iPhone的结合。

It was mobile data technology, the iPhone coming together.

在早期，特拉维斯的一个天才之处在于，他会雇佣市场经理，让他们担任新拓展城市的总经理。

In the early days, one of the geniuses of Trav, of Travis was he would hire these market managers who would be GMs of new cities that they would expand into.

他们会带着一袋iPhone直接去到城市，把iPhone送给黑色轿车司机，让他们加入Uber。

And they would literally go to the city with a bag full of iPhones and give away iPhones to black car drivers to get them to come on Uber.

因为当时很多司机根本没有智能手机。

Because at the time a lot of them didn't have, you know, they, they didn't have smartphones so to speak.

智能手机的兴起，正是这种美妙的时机与创始团队的进取心相结合的结果——他们意识到这里有一个模式，并决心将这个模式复制到全世界，不惜筹集一切所需资本，以更快的速度超越任何人。

So the onset of the, of the smartphone was that kind of that beautiful magic of timing coming together and then aggressiveness of that founding team to understand that there's a pattern here and I'm going to replicate that pattern all the world and raise as much capital as I have to to get there faster than anyone else.

这就是其中的魔力。

That was the magic.

但你知道，again，这里面确实有运气成分。

But it was, you know, again, it's, yes, there's luck in there.

但如果创始团队没有如此激进地进行所谓的‘闪电扩张’——这个词在全球范围内都被广泛使用——公司今天就不会是这个样子。

But if that founding team hadn't been as aggressive in, you know, blitzscaling, which is a term that folks use, all around the world, company wouldn't be what it is today.

你从投资银行转型到担任Expedia的CFO然后CEO的经历。

Your transition out of investment banking into Expedia CFO then CEO.

你知道，商业界有一种刻板印象，认为投资银行家和CFO未必能成为最好的CEO，是的。

You know, listen, there's a stereotype in business that investment bankers and CFOs don't necessarily make the best CEOs Yeah.

因为他们可能会刻板地过度财务化。

Because of they might stereotypically Overfinancialize.

过度财务化。

Overfinancialize.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Totally.

也许可以不那么规避风险，也许要像那样，你知道的，这类事情。

Maybe be less risk averse, maybe be like, you know, those kinds of things.

当我跟巴里交谈时，他确实说了下面这些话。

And when I spoke to Barry, he did say the following.

我直接放给你听，因为由他来说会更好。

I'll just play it for you because it's better coming from him.

他并不是天生的领导者，因为直到那时，他的职业生涯一直都在财务方面。

He was not a natural leader because he in his career up until then has had been on the financial side of things.

所以他之前还没有机会或经验去管理他人。

So he really had not yet had the experience or opportunity to manage people.

这对他来说是通过一种艰难的方式到来的，但他掌握了它。

That came in a difficult way to him and he mastered it.

他并没有花太长时间。

It didn't take him all that long.

他学会了如何成为领导者，也学会了如何对一家公司承担最终责任。

He mastered how to become a leader and he mastered how to take ultimate responsibility for a company.

是的。

Yeah.

在巴里手下成长的经历，说实话，如果没有他作为我的领导者、从他身上学习，我今天不可能达到这个位置——他并不是那种典型的导师型人物。

It was, growing up under Barry was, was, and by the way, I wouldn't be where I am today without, not him as a mentor because he's not like a mentoring kind of guy, but him as my leader learning from him.

但我想说，真正深刻塑造我的经历，是关于Expedia的：我最初是以财务领导者身份加入的。

But I'd say that the experience that really, really shaped me, as it relates to Expedia was I did come in as more of a financial leader.

我们在Expedia.com的领导层失败了。

Our leadership at expedia.com failed.

我雇用了第一个人，然后不得不把他解雇了。

I hired a, I had to fire the first, person.

我雇用了第二个人。

I hired a second person.

彻底的灾难。

Complete disaster.

因此，在为公司最重要的业务招聘方面，我两战全败。

And so I was zero for two in terms of hiring for our largest business.

这个业务占我们利润的50%，而我在招聘上却是零对二。

This business was 50% of our profits and I was zero for two in, in hiring.

于是我去找巴里和董事会，说：如果我第三次招聘还是选不到人来领导我们最重要的业务，你们就把我开除吧。

And so I went to Barry and the board and I said, well, if I miss hiring the third person to run the biggest parts of our business, then you should fire me.

巴里立刻同意了。

Barry quickly agreed.

是的，当然我们会这么做。

Yes, of course we will.

所以我说，显然我对这份工作了解得还不够，无法找到合适的人选。

So I said, obviously, I don't understand enough about the job to find the right person.

因此，我觉得我得亲自接手这份工作六个月到一年，弄清楚这份工作到底需要什么，之后才能去找到合适的人。

So I think I've got to take the job myself for six months to a year to understand what, what is it that the job entails for me to then go in and find that person.

结果我一干就是五六年，期间我同时负责控股公司Expedia Inc（一家上市公司）和expedia.com。

And so for what turned out to be, I think it was five or six years, I ran both the holding company Expedia Inc, which is a public company and I ran expedia.com.

我成为了公司最大部门的总裁。

I was president of the largest part of the company.

这段经历让我学会了如何实际运营。

That experience taught me my operating chops.

这段经历实际上让我明白了如何运营一家公司？

That experience actually taught me how is it that you operate a company?

如何管理一个组织？

How is it that you run something?

而这与资本配置以及那些重要的财务魔法是完全不同的技能。

And that's a very different skill set from capital allocation and, you know, all the financial, wizardry that people embark on that's important.

但我发现，运营公司、领导公司、组织它、管理它、设定目标、组建合适的团队，这才是我真正热爱的部分。

But the, what I discovered was operating a company, leading a company, organizing it, operating it, setting up the goals, getting the right team together, that's the part of the job that I loved.

所以我花了很长时间才明白这一点。

So it took me a while to get there.

我整个一生，整个早期职业生涯都在金融行业，虽然我喜欢，但我直到职业生涯后期才找到我的真爱——运营和管理公司，尤其是科技公司。

Like my whole life, my whole early career was in this financial sector, which I enjoyed, but I didn't find my true love, which is operations and running companies and running a technology company until way, way later in my career.

我认为在某种程度上，现在我两者兼得了。

And I think to some extent now I've got both.

我掌握了财务部分，因为这部分必须做好。

I've got that financial part because it has to work.

但业务的运营和领导部分是我真正热爱的。

But the operations and the leadership part of the business is something that, that I love.

看到巴里勇于承担责任、迎难而上、始终如一地坚持反主流的做法，我认为这让我成为一个比有其他上司时好得多的管理者。

And watching Barry take responsibility, take shots, go against the grain, as aggressively as he consistently did, I think has made me a much better operator than what the counterfactual would be if I had another boss.

担任那个职位三个月后，人力资源主管告诉你，你吓到人了。

Three months into that role, head of HR told you that you were scaring people.

我都忘了这件事。

I'd forgotten about that.

我想那就是我的工作。

I think that was my job.

是的。

Yeah.

那当时的背景是什么？

What's the context there?

你知道，当时的背景是，首先，科技领域的扭亏为盈真的很难。

You know, the context was that, I first of all, turnarounds in technology are really hard.

我们之前在讨论当势头是正面的时候的情况。

We were talking about the momentum thing when momentum is positive.

在科技行业，如果势头转为负面，想要扭转局面就极其困难。

In the technology sector, if momentum turns negative, it is remarkably difficult to turn it around.

雅虎还在苦苦支撑，但它曾经是一家伟大的公司，你现在看到它变成什么样了。

You know, Yahoo is hanging on, but it was the great company and you see where it is now.

搞砸了的时候真是残酷。

It's brutal when you get it wrong.

而且事情总是比你想象的花更长时间。

And it always takes longer than you think.

这涉及到我之前说的线性与指数增长的区别，就像上升曲线是指数型的，下降曲线也是指数型的。

And it goes to, you know, when I was talking about linear versus exponential, just like the curves up are exponential, curves down are exponential as well.

头两年看起来很糟，但其实还没那么糟。

The first couple of years look bad, but they're not that bad.

但你心里清楚，十年后这将是一场灾难。

But you know in your mind that ten years from now it's going to be a fucking disaster.

所以我看到的Expedia是一家技术引擎已经瘫痪的技术公司。

So what I saw with Expedia was a technology company whose technology engine was broken.

代码库陈旧，从未在技术上进行过再投资。

Code base was old, had not been reinvested in technology.

管理层在得过且过。

Leadership was coasting.

这让我非常担忧。

And that really alarmed me.

我从巴里那里学到的一点关于领导力的是：当警钟响起，当你看到某些东西、发现某种模式时，你必须立即行动。

And one of the things that I learned from Barry in terms of leadership is that when a bell is rung, when you see something, when you see a pattern, you have to act.

不能等一秒。

You can't wait for a second.

所以在我心里，一旦我意识到，天啊，这真的是一次转型。

So in my mind, once I figured out, oh my god, this really is a turnaround.

这并不是一家我只需要微调的公司。

This isn't like a company that I've got to tune.

如果我不迅速而果断地采取行动，这家公司就会开始走上指数级衰退的道路。

This company, if I don't move and move hard and fast is, is going to start on that exponential decay curve.

我必须迅速行动。

I had to move quickly.

在那时，我从巴里那里学到的一项关键技能就是透明度。

And at that point and, and I am one of the skills that I learned from Barry is transparency.

每当他想了解一个问题时，他都希望直接追溯到源头。

It's like whenever he wanted to understand an issue, he wanted to go to the source.

他不想要总结报告。

He didn't want a summary.

无论那个源头在哪里，都不重要。

And it didn't matter where that source was.

是初级分析师，还是总裁？

Is it a junior analyst or a president?

他想直接听源头的声音，因为他不想失去问题的原始真实性。

He wanted to hear from the source because what he didn't want to lose is lose the fidelity of the issue.

你知道，当一个问题从分析师传到助理，再到副总裁、高级副总裁，最后汇总到你这位CEO手里时，它早就失去了一切原貌。

You know, when there's an issue here and then it goes through the analyst and the associate and the vice president and SVP and whatever, by the time it's summarized for you as the CEO, it's just, it's lost everything.

通常他们的层级会想：‘我们真的要告诉他们这个吗？’

And usually their levels are like, hey, do we really want to tell them that?

我们不如换个方式表达，等等。

Why don't we phrase it this way, etcetera.

所以，作为CEO，你的一生所看到的，其实是你的团队希望你看到的那个版本的世界。

So your whole life as a CEO is kind of a, it's a version of the world that your team wants you to see.

如果你的团队很优秀，那么这个版本通常更接近现实。

And if you've got a good team, usually it has more to do with reality than not.

但你仍然受制于你的团队以及传达到你这里的资讯流。

But you are subject to your team and the information flow that gets to you.

因此，巴里总是坚持要直接找源头。

And so Barry always wanted to go to source.

他会直接跨越层级，跨越层级，直击问题的核心。

He would just cut through levels, cut through levels, get to the core of the idea.

一旦他弄清楚了，就会立即行动，而且行动迅速。

And then once he did, he would move and he would move fast.

对我来说，我保留了这一点，但我也反过来做了：我能够依赖你告诉我真实情况的方式之一，就是我对你说实话。

And for me, I've kind of, I have held onto that, but I've also turned it the other way, which is one of the ways in which I can depend on getting the real shit from you is my being honest with you.

对吧？

Right?

人类天生就能很好地分辨胡说八道，这么说吧。

And human beings are good bullshit, you know, kind of meter so to speak.

当你作为CEO，跟下属谈话时，满口都是业务术语——我们这季度如何如何，上季度有些挑战啊、问题啊，他们其实看得出你在忽悠他们。

And when you're the CEO and you're talking to your staff and you're giving all the, you know, the business talk and we're doing this, but the last quarter we had some certain challenges and this and that, they see you bullshitting them.

既然你的老板都不跟你说真话，那他们凭什么要告诉你真相呢？

And so why the hell should they tell you the truth, right, if their, if their boss isn't telling them the good stuff?

他们凭什么要把真实情况反馈给你这个老板呢？

Why should they give the good stuff back to the boss?

所以对我来说，这几乎是一种自我保护机制：作为老板，我会告诉你实情，因为这是我能从你那里获取真实信息的唯一方式。

So for me, it, it was almost like a self defense mechanism that as a boss, I'm going to tell you what's going on Because that's the only way I can drag the hard truths back from you.

否则你会自己憋着。

Because otherwise you're going to feel to yourself.

你会想，我不想听真相。

You're going be like, I don't want Darta.

不。

No.

这件事真的发生了。

This happened.

但你有没有担心过，他们可能承受不了真相？

But do you ever worry that they might not be able to deal with the truth?

那他们就走吧。

Then they can leave.

而且我觉得就是这样，我觉得我的人力资源主管就是这么说的。

And, and I think that that's so, I think that's what my head of HR was saying.

我当时把人们吓坏了，因为我一直在说：我们这里真的出了问题，我们必须团结起来。

I was scaring the shit out of people because I'm like, we have a real problem here and we've got to come together.

而且我认为，对我而言，一个不错的决策框架是：如果我犯错，我宁愿在哪个地方犯错？

And, and I think that, that, you know, there's a, I was a good decision making framework for me is, if I make a mistake, where do I want to make the mistake on?

对吧？

Right?

所以，如果我要在公司里表态，我宁愿因为讲真话而把人吓跑。

And so if I want to, if I'm going to air with my company, I'm going to air in telling the truth and potentially scaring someone away.

我愿意承担这个后果。

I'll take that.

因为如果这个人不愿面对真相，不准备迎接挑战，那他们就应该去别处。

Because if that person doesn't want to face the truth, if he or she's not up for the fight, then they should go someplace else.

他们可以过得开心。

They can have a good time.

我相信他们也能拥有不错的职业生涯等等。

I'm sure they can have a good career, etcetera.

因此，作为领导者，我始终坚信透明度，部分原因是这样能吸引对的人，部分原因是这样我能获得准确的信息以便采取行动。

So for me as a leader, I've always, always believed in transparency, partially because then I think you attract the right people and partially because then I'm going to get the good information so to act on.

通常，我看到的CEO失败的原因并不是他们做出了错误的决定。

Usually the failures I see with CEOs aren't because they made the wrong decisions.

而是因为他们获取的数据有误，导致做出了错误的决策。

It's because they were getting the wrong data that led to the wrong decisions.

因此，作为任何组织的领导者，建立能够快速将问题呈报给你的渠道和文化至关重要。

So it's incredibly important as a leader of any organization for you to build the channels and build the kind of culture that surfaces problems to you quickly.

对我而言，你还必须始终保持直接的随机沟通渠道。

And then for me too, you always have to have your random direct channels.

你知道，如果把组织看作有机体，它们自有其激励机制。

You know, the, the, again, if you think about organizations as organisms, they have their own incentives.

所以我的下属的动机是控制传达到我这里的资讯。

And so my staff's incentive is to control the information that gets to me.

但这并不是因为他们是坏人。

Not because they're bad people.

这只是他们的工作，因为我会感到不堪重负。

It's just their job because I can get overwhelmed.

我该见谁？

Who do I meet with?

我的日程安排是什么？

What's my schedule?

这个人值得见CEO吗？

Is this person worthy of meeting the CEO?

对我来说，我的做法就是搞一堆随机的安排。

And for me, my fight is I just set up a bunch of random shit.

我会持续地会见那些低我四级的工程师，因为他们通常有种不在乎的个性。

I'll meet with, you know, engineers four levels down consistently because usually they've got the kind of personality where they don't give a shit.

他们会把一切告诉我，还喜欢给CEO泼冷水。

They'll tell me anything and everything and they like putting the CEO down.

这很棒。

That's great.

就是贬低CEO。

Like putting the CEO down.

你知道，工程师们常常不喜欢权威，而代码简直就是最强大的权威颠覆者。

It's, you know, engineers often, you know, don't like authority and code is like the biggest authority buster.

这就是真相，真正的真相。

It's like the truth, truth.

所以我发现很多工程师有一种性格，就是我会告诉你真实情况，你知道，他们的价值在于其他方面。

So I find a lot of engineers have a personality which is, yeah, I'm going to tell you what it's Like, I'm, you know, they they they their value is in something else.

但通常他们有一种我对权威的蔑视，我特别喜欢这一点。

But often they don't there's a kind of a disrespect for authority that I love.

在我公司里，我发现有时候会有一个24岁的年轻女孩，直接告诉我真相。

I found in my companies that there's sometimes like a 24 year old young girl who will just tell me the truth.

是的。

Yeah.

而且

And

她就是你想要和她待在一起的人

she's the one you wanna She's hang out

我总是去找她征求意见。

the one I always go and ask for an opinion.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以你必须建立自己的沟通渠道。

And so that that's you've gotta have your your own channels.

但要让团队透明，首先你得向他们敞开心扉。

But the way to the way to get transparency from your team is first first, you've gotta give it to them.

你刚来的时候，企业文化是努力工作的吗？

Was the culture hardworking when you arrived?

因为你用‘懈怠’来形容你刚到Expedia时的团队。

Because you used the word coasting to describe some of the team when you arrived at Expedia.

中等。

Medium.

我认为这家公司长期以来一直很成功，并且某种程度上依赖着过去的成功而松懈了。

I think the company had been successful for a long time and, had coasted on that success to some extent.

所以我需要迅速地彻底更换整个团队，招进一些更有进取心的人。

So I needed to turn over the team, Turn over like the entire team very, very quickly and get some hungry people in there.

整个团队？

The entire team?

几乎是整个团队。

Almost the entire team.

是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah.

那段时间挺艰难的。

It was rough going for a while.

但后来你有了目标明确的人，他们努力证明自己。

But then you have kind of mission oriented people who are trying to prove themselves.

这是每个公司必须经历的更新过程的一部分。

And it's part of the renewal that every company has to go through.

我们扭转了局面。

And we turned it around.

虽然过程很艰难，但我们真的扭转了局面。

It was it was tough going, but we really turned around.

那时我渐渐意识到，嘿，我最爱的就是管事。

And that was when I kind of I learned, hey, my my love is running shit.

这很棒。

It's great.

这是我工作中最棒的部分。

It's the best part of my job.

你是怎么让这家公司努力工作的？

How did you get that company to work hard?

因为现在有太多人在听，他们所在的公司可能也曾成功过，是的。

Because there's so many people listening right now that are in a company that might have been successful Yeah.

已经存在了可能有二十年了。

Existing, might be two decades in.

这实际上是高管管理中的一个终极问题。

And this is an ultimate question in, like, executive management.

你如何扭转一家大公司，甚至是两百人的企业文化？

How do you turn around the culture of a big or even even even 200 people?

这非常困难。

It's very difficult.

有时候，捷径就是换人。

And sometimes the shortcut is to change the people.

说起来很容易，哦，你们有价值观，这样那样。

Like it's very easy to say, oh, you have values, this and that.

所以关键是找到那些你相信会认同你的文化机制、工作方式或价值观的人，然后以身作则，树立榜样，并确保你的团队践行这些价值观，并将其贯穿整个组织。

So it's it's finding the people who you believe will line up with your cultural mechanisms or how you work or your values and then embodying those values and those mechanisms as examples and then making sure that your team embodies those values and imbues down the, down the organization.

努力工作的一部分，比如，你知道的，周六给团队发邮件，如果周六没收到回复，周日再发一封带问号的邮件。

So part of working hard is like, you know, sending emails to the team on a Saturday and if I don't get a response on Saturday, sending them an email on Sunday with a question mark.

怎么回事？

What's going on?

你知道吗，回头看看Expedia，我们确实工作得很拼命，但还不够拼，因为Expedia卖的是假期，对吧？

You know, I think at Expedia in hindsight, we worked intensely and we went hard, but not as hard as I like because Expedia was, we were selling vacations, right?

我们卖的产品本质上是让人放松、停下来的。

It was, it was the, the product that we were selling was about turning yourself off.

所以我们当时确实谈过工作与生活的平衡。

And so we did talk about work life balance.

但回头想想，在Uber，我不会这么想。

And in hindsight, at Uber, I don't.

你知道，来Uber，你就得拼命工作。

You know, you come to Uber, you're going to work your ass off.

我们会非常严格要求。

We're going to be really demanding.

如果你表现不好，我们会明确告诉你，如果你不改进，我们就让你走人。

If you're not performing, we're going to let you know and if you don't fix it, we're going to push you out.

但尽管这会极其辛苦，你在这家公司里将拥有真正的自主权。

But while it will be incredibly hard, you will have real agency at the company.

我们是一家大公司，但个人依然能产生巨大影响。

We're a big company, but individuals can make a big difference.

作为一家正在改变世界的企业，你将学到非常多东西。

And as a company that's making a difference in the world, you're going to learn so much.

尽管你会付出巨大努力，但你也会过得非常愉快。

And while you will have worked hard, you're going to have a great time.

但如果你只想混日子，就别来这儿了。

But this is don't come here if you want to coast.

我对这一点非常明确。

And I'm very clear about that.

我本该在Expedia时更明确一些，但因为我们卖的是度假产品，所以我没法说得那么直白。

And I should have been more clear at Expedia, but we were selling vacations so I couldn't be quite that clear.

新年总是有一种奇特的能量，因为人们开始谈论他们的目标、新的开始和新习惯。

New Year always has a strange energy to it because people start talking about their goals, fresh starts, and new habits.

但现实是，大多数人会把去年的想法带入新的一年。

But the reality is that most people carry the same ideas they had last year into the new year.

我也一样有这种毛病。

I'm guilty of that too.

而且他们最终还是没有对这些想法采取任何行动。

And they still don't end up doing anything with them.

我理解为什么会这样。

And I get why.

开始一件新事情，尤其是做生意或做项目，会让人感到不知所措。

Starting something new, especially if it's a business or a project, is overwhelming.

在开始之前，你总在寻找完美的时机和完美的自己，但其实最重要的是迈出第一步。

Before you start, you're looking for the perfect moment and to be the perfect version of yourself, when really what matters most is taking that first step.

如果你一直有个想法——一个产品、一家店，或者你一直搁置的某个点子——我们的赞助商Shopify能让你轻松起步，因为你可以在一个平台上搭建店铺、在社交媒体上销售、处理付款、使用AI工具，并管理所有事务。

If you had an idea for a while, a product, a store, something you've been sitting on, our sponsor Shopify makes it easy to get started because you can build your store, sell on socials, take payments, use AI tools, and manage everything all in one place.

所以2026年，是你终于相信自己的年份。

So 2026 is the year you finally back yourself.

前往 shopify.co.uk/bartlett 开始销售吧。

Go to shopify.co.uk/bartlett and start selling.

你现在也可以注册每月一美元的试用期。

And you can sign up for a one dollar per month trial right now too.

只需访问 shopify.co.uk/bartlett。

Just go to shopify.co.uk/bartlett.

我向你保证，你不需要把一切都想得清清楚楚。

I promise you, you don't need to have it all figured out.

你只需要开始行动。

You just need to start.

在你担任首席执行官的十二年里，Expedia的股价上涨了550%，销售额从21亿美元增长到88亿美元。

In your twelve years as CEO, Expedia stock rose 550% and sales increased 400% from 2,100,000,000.0 to 8,800,000,000.0.

你还是美国科技公司中薪酬最高的首席执行官，年薪达9410万美元。

And you were the highest paid CEO of a US tech company with a pay of 94,100,000.0.

我放弃了这一切，去加入了Uber。

I left it all behind to go to Uber.

你放弃了这一切，那是一个我从未兑现过的巨额期权包，但一切都好。

You left it all behind It was a go big options package that I've ever vested, but it's all good.

这段经历非常精彩。

It was a great run.

我对努力工作这个观点非常感兴趣，因为我认为十年前，你说的这些话是非常禁忌的。

I'm so I'm so intrigued about this point of hard work because I think ten years ago, saying what you just said was very taboo.

是的。

Yes.

现在感觉更像是

It feels to be more an

被推崇了。

invoked now.

我们现在自由了。

We're freed now.

是的。

Yes.

你现在自由了。

You're freed now.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Yes, indeed.

我有时候会遇到别人问我一个问题：你对年轻人有什么建议？

It's I've I've gotten, you know, sometimes people ask you the question, what advice would you give to young people?

在我看来，人生中最重要的技能就是努力工作的能力。

And to me, the most important skill in life is the skill of working hard.

但这不是一种技能。

And it's not a skill.

你不能只是随便决定自己要去做。

You can't just like decide you're going to do it.

我认为太多人关注的应该是：你该不该当程序员、医生，或者现在既然谁都能写代码了，是不是该学文科。

And I think way too many people, you know, focus on should be should you be a computer programmer or a doctor or study the liberal arts now that anyone can vibe code.

只要学会努力工作就行了。

Just learn to work hard.

当你看到顶尖运动员时，当然他们很有天赋，他们的天赋水平是世界级的。

And it is, you you know, the the when you see the top athletes, of course they're talented and the, you know, their talent level is world levels.

但精英运动员与非精英运动员之间的区别在于，他们拼命努力工作。

But the thing that changes that that's different about the elite athletes than the non elite athletes, and I'm talking elite, is they work their asses off.

他们很有纪律。

They're disciplined.

他们很有条理。

They're structured.

他们毫不松懈。

They're relentless.

看看C罗，看看迈克尔·乔丹，等等。

You know, look at Ronaldo, look at Michael Jordan, etcetera.

生活中所有方面都是同样的道理。

That's the same thing is true in all of life.

在商业中也是如此。

It's true in business.

在个人生活中也是如此。

It's true in personal life.

所以对我来说，对于我的孩子，我只想教他们如何努力工作。

And so for me, with my kids, I just want to teach them how to work hard.

至于我成长过程中，作为一名银行家、一名高管，我不会让任何人比我更努力。

And for me, like growing up, I, as a banker, as an executive, I'm not going to let anyone outwork me.

如果真是这样，他们可能更聪明、更有天赋等等。

And if that's true, then they may be smarter, more talented, etcetera.

但我不会让任何人比我更努力。

But I'm not going to let anyone outwork me.

我认为这是你拥有的巨大优势。

And I think that that's a huge advantage that you have.

而随着时间的推移，这种优势会不断累积。

And over a period of time, that advantage compounds.

我希望在我们公司里也拥有这种精神。

I And want that in our company.

我希望优步是一家极其勤奋的公司。

Like I want Uber to be an incredibly hardworking company.

但这是有代价的，对吧？

Comes at a cost though, no?

努力工作。

Working hard.

是的。

Yes.

这需要做出权衡。

It comes at a trade off.

我们相信灵活性。

And we believe in flexibility.

所以人们把缺乏灵活性和努力工作混为一谈。

So people confuse kind of lack of flexibility to working hard.

你可以努力工作，同时也能拥有灵活性。

You can work hard and at the same time you can have flexibility.

所以，如果你想和家人共进晚餐，而我在城里的时候，对和家人一起吃晚饭这件事非常坚持，比如晚上六点到八点，我一定会专心陪家人。

So if you want to have dinner with your family and I'm, I'm religious about having dinners with my family when I'm in town, you know, six to eight, absolutely spend that time with my family.

但到了晚上九点半，我就会查看邮件。

But at, you know, 09:30PM, I'm checking emails.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

当我早上五点半醒来时，我就会看邮件。

When I wake up at 05:30AM, I'm emails.

当然，这中间总会有取舍。

So of course there are trade offs.

而且，生活本来就是关于取舍的。

And, you know, life is about trade offs.

我认为，从采访多位首席执行官的过程中，以及经历了新冠疫情、远程办公，再到如今大家又重返办公室的这一系列转变中，我学到的最重要的一件事，就是你刚才说的——对人诚实，让他们能够为自己和生活做出明智的决定。

I think one of the most important things I've learned from interviewing CEOs and generally, we've gone through a transition of COVID and remote work and then come back into like everyone's the office again is actually, the most important thing is what you just said, which is being honest with people so that they can make decisions for themselves and their lives.

我认为，所谓的有毒行为是，你在公开场合说了一套话，但当人们真正到来时，情况却完全不一样。

I think the the thing that one might describe as toxic is when you say something publicly, but then when they arrive, it's a completely different deal.

但你所做的，是保持诚实，从而让人们能够根据自己的生活做出决定。

But what you're doing is you're being honest, and you're therefore allowing people to make decisions for themselves within their own lives.

我也允许他们对我坦诚相待。

And I'm allowing them to be honest back to me.

是的。

Yeah.

而你这种做法所营造的公司文化，正是我这样的人会被吸引的原因。

And you're that's a com that's a company culture that someone like me would be attracted to.

当然。

Absolutely.

但有很多听众会觉得，这简直是最糟糕的事情。

But there's lots of people listening that couldn't think of anything worse.

但这没关系。

And that's okay.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

有很多公司他们可以找到，或者有很多他们可以投身的事业。

There are plenty of companies that they could find or plenty of causes that they can find.

没关系。

It's fine.

你说要学会努力工作。

You said learn to work hard.

学会。

Learn.

这是一种技能。

It's a it's a skill.

真的吗？

Really?