At The Table with The Dice Tower - Hype It Up

没错。

Mhmm.

确实是。

Sure.

对的。

Mhmm.

没错。

Sure.

但如果这个时间跨度可能长达好几年，那你要怎么维持热度呢？

But when you're talking about a timescale of possibly years, how do you maintain that?

毕竟要一直维持高强度的宣传造势，是非常耗资源的一件事。

Because maintaining full hype machine is a very resource intensive.

这会把本该投入游戏设计、生产，还有实际制作物流的时间和精力都分走。

That takes time and effort away from, the design and production of the game, the logistics of of actually making it.

那从游戏开启宣发，到最终正式推出的这段空档期里，你要怎么一直把热度维持住呢？

So how do you keep that going during that lull in between when the game is available and when it's been marketed?

我也不知道。

I don't know

其实根本没必要去维持这种热度。

that you should.

对哦。

Right.

没错。

No.

我觉得其实众筹活动期间本身热度就很高。

I think it's more so there's a lot of activity around the crowdfunding event.

之后就得保持定期沟通，比如每个月跟所有参与众筹的人同步一下情况，不管说什么都得主动联系大家。

And then there should be regular communication, like, once a month where I I I think whatever it is, you communicate with the people who crowdfunded it.

听我说啊，

Hey.

我们就定下每月更一次进度的规矩。

I'm gonna we're gonna do an update once a month.

大家每个月月初，也就是每个月的第一周都能收到更新。

Expect at the beginning of the month, the first week of the month, every month.

我会告诉大家项目的最新进展。

Let you know where the project is.

这样我们就能保持稳定的更新节奏，不会让支持者感到失望，也不会消耗大家的热情。

And so that you show consistency, so those people do not get frustrated, and then it has an adverse effect of the hype happening.

等到游戏快上线的时候再把热度拉满，毕竟这些支持者能顺利拿到游戏，本来就该是上线热潮里的一部分，我是这么觉得的。

And then you ramp it up when it's getting close to being released because those people getting their game are should be part of the excitement of it being released, I would think.

就是把这事落实，你懂吧？

Like, get it you know?

对的。

Yeah.

这样一来，大家不仅能接触到这款游戏、亲自体验，还会主动讨论它。

So people, again, are getting it, playing it, and talking about it.

然后汤姆又补充说，到那个阶段，你还得主动联系游戏评测人来给这款游戏写测评，这又是一层营销造势，能把你的游戏热度再推上去。

And then Tom's saying, on top of that, at that point, you should also be reaching out to reviewers who can also review it, which is another level of building marketing, also hype, for your game.

我同意，到了那时候，大家可能已经对这个游戏感到精疲力尽，还容易陷入一种想法：我们都干这么久了。

And that I agree that people at that point might be so mentally exhausted of that game and and also fall into the trap of, well, we've been doing this so long.

对你们来说这不新鲜了，但对别人来说它还是新的。

It's not new anymore, but it is.

对玩家来说，这可是全新的东西。

It's new for the consumers.

对。

Yeah.

你不能这么干。

So you can't you can't do that.

公司里不能有这种疲劳感，但说实话，很多人确实会掉进这个坑。

You can't have that mental fatigue in your company, but I think that people do fall into that trap sometimes.

我们早就这么干过了。

We we've done that already.

我们已经在看下一个项目了。

We're already looking at the new thing.

还有这个新东西。

And that the new thing.

我想看那个新鲜玩意儿，我们也想聊聊新的众筹项目。

I wanna see the new shiny thing, and we wanna talk about the new crowdfunding.

明白了。

Okay.

对。

Yes.

但你的游戏现在终于到了玩家手里了。

But, also, your game is finally in the hands of human beings.

这可是实实在在的产品。

It's a physical product.

好好庆祝一下吧。

Please celebrate that.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

得让大家知道这游戏现在真的能买到了，不只是个想法。

And make people know it is available now, not just the the idea of it.

没错，我同意这确实有时候是个难题。

So, yes, I agree that that is a challenge sometimes.

如果你在规划预算，想前期多投点，让人觉得玩的人特别多，好推动众筹，但就没留预算给发售后的推广。

And there's a if you're talking about your budget and you want to front load because you want it to seem like lots and lots of people are playing it for your crowdfunding and you don't budget for, okay, now it's out.

我们得把游戏发给评测人，请他们来体验。

We need to send it to people to do reviews of it.

这事儿挺棘手的。

That's that's tricky.

我也觉得评测人得担点责任，因为大家喜欢赶在发售后前凑热闹，但真正发售后还愿意回头讨论游戏的人实在太少了。

And I will put the onus on reviewers too because it is people like being part of that prebuzz, but so few people go back and talk about games when they're published.

而且我觉得——当然也可能我错了——现在绝大多数所谓的“评测”游戏的人都只做前瞻体验，虽说前瞻本身也不是坏事。

It feels and I'm I'm I mean, I might be wrong, but it feels like the vast majority of people who quote unquote review games are doing previews at this point, which is not a bad thing to have being done.

毕竟对于Kickstarter、Gamefound这类众筹平台上的项目来说，提前知道游戏好不好确实很重要。

It's important to know if games are good for Kickstarter and Gamefound, etcetera.

但要是一款游戏已经能直接买了，我却找不到一篇实打实的正式评测，这真的会让我特别不舒服。

But if I can go buy a game and I can't find an actual review in the game, that always bugs me.

对啊。

Yeah.

这事得两边一起担责。

And it's on both.

责任本来就是双方的。

The onus is on both.

发行方得负责把作品送到测评人手里。

It's on the publishers getting them out to people.

不过话说回来，我跟好多 Kickstarter 项目方都聊过。

But again, I'm telling you, I talked to a lot of Kickstarters.

他们就会说，对，我们这款游戏是靠 Kickstarter 众筹出来的

They're like, yeah, we Kickstarter ed this game.

当时有600人支持我们

We had 600 backers.

我们总共印了1000份

We printed a thousand.

现在还剩400份没卖出去

We have 400.

没错

Yeah.

到时候这些游戏肯定能卖出去

We'll get you know, we'll sell those games.

就这么着吧

Whatever.

那我就会问，你真的想这么做吗？

I'm like, well, is that what you wanna do?

难道你不想把这个游戏做得更大吗？

Don't you want this game to be bigger?

哦，说到这个啊，现在我们就得掰扯清楚了：我们到底是正经的桌游发行公司，还是一群抱着追梦念头的普通人？

Oh, well, now we're we're getting into the do are we a board game publishing company, or are we a person with a dream?

那倒也是。

Well, sure.

但我还是觉得——我懂现在很多公司都怕印太多桌游压货，毕竟现在行情就这样。

But I I also just I mean, I I get that companies are kind of afraid to print a lot of games nowadays.

我之前提到过石匠游戏那个例子嘛，当年他的《展翅翱翔》印的量太少，前前后后加印了八次都不够。就是因为当初太保守，不敢多印，谁也拿不准这款游戏能不能大卖

I mean, I mentioned Stonemaier, and he ran out of Wingspan, like, I don't know, eight times because he was just too cautious to print more of it because you're not sure that the game will sell that well.

谁都不想积压一万盒游戏，结果到头来只卖出去一千盒，那可太惨了

You don't wanna sit on, you know, 10,000 copies of a game, and you've only sold a thousand of them.

就是这么个道理

That kind of story.

没错

Right.

对的

Yeah.

没错

Yeah.

想靠众筹的数据来预估一款桌游的销量，实在太难了。

It's hard to do projections on a game based on crowdfunding.

只有实际卖出去的销量才靠谱，但第一次印刷的时候根本没法拿到这种真实销售数据。

You want to do projections of a game based on actual sales, and you can't do that in the first printing.

所以现在问题就落到商业模式上了，咱们聊的就是这个

So it's and if you're a new so now we're talking about business models.

而且桌游圈还有个很无奈的现状：绝大多数从业者都是创意人，根本没什么商业思维

And also, the unfortunate side effect of being in the board game industry, is that most people are creatives and not necessarily business minded.

当然也有少数懂行的，但大部分人都偏科创意领域，根本不会想到用销量预估来指导印量决策——一般都是自己出过几批货、做过几款游戏之后，才会慢慢考虑这些事

Now some people are, but most people are more tending towards the creative side and don't think about things like sales projections informing their print run decisions, or at least not until they get a couple print runs in or a couple games in even.

所以刚才说的那个杰米，他肯定是按照过往的销售数据算过印量的，之前的销量本来也挺好，但还是完全没料到《展翅翱翔》能爆成那样

So, yes, I think Jamie probably did numbers based on what he think of his previous sales, which were robust, but nothing like what he was anticipating.

但现在没错。

But now Right.

不过游戏卖断货的时候，大家真的会很生气。

And people get very irritated, though, when games sell out.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

我超想玩这个游戏，结果根本买不到。

I'm I'm excited about this game and I can't get it.

是啊。

Yeah.

但其实大多数游戏都不会卖断货。

But that's because most games don't sell out.

所以公司根本没想到，哦，这款居然这么火——他们当然希望每款游戏都能大卖，但现实哪有这么理想。

So the company has no idea, oh, this one I mean, they're hoping every game they print is gonna be a hit, but it's not.

我的意思是，根本不存在哪家公司能一直出爆款。

I mean, you can't there's not a single company out there that has consistent hits.

真的没有。

There just isn't.

对吧。

Right.

现在我们说到这种情况了：如果你有个游戏，销量一直稳稳的，但因为全球性原因，印刷跟不上，你其实可以稍微控制一下发布节奏。

And now we're getting into the talk of, like, if you have a so if you have a game and you know it's doing a steady amount of things and your print run is running behind because of, you know, global reasons, you can somewhat control the flow.

比如放慢发布速度，让游戏总处在快卖光的边缘，但至少一直有货，不至于彻底断货，这样能多撑一两个月。

So maybe you're slowing down the stream of what's released so that it's always on the verge of going out, but at least there's always some in stock so that it doesn't ever completely go out of stock to hold you over for an extra month or two.

作为老板，如果你懂怎么应对这种风浪，其实可以这么操作，懂吧。

Like, you could do things like that as a business owner if you know how to weather the storm, you know, kind of a thing.

但如果你是新手，根本不知道这些门道。

But if you're new, you don't know any of that.

或者你虽然不是完全的新手，但之前做的游戏都平平无奇，突然来个大爆款，那真够你喝一壶的。

Or even if you're relatively new and you just know the games that you've done so far and suddenly you have a massive hit, you that's that's a lot.

如果你没这方面的经验，想提前规划就更难了。

And it's harder to plan for that if you don't have any experience doing it.

作为消费者，你们听好了，对任何东西都得提防炒作。

As a consumer, those listening, you need to be careful though about hype as with anything.

这世道，炒作就是为了让你掏钱。

As with anything in the world, hype is there to sell you something.

它根本不是为你着想。

It is not there in your best interests.

不管合不合你口味，他们就只想卖给你。

They want to sell you the thing regardless of whether you will like it or not.

他们就盼着你下单。

They want you to buy it.

所以你得留个心眼。

And so you have to be careful.

一不小心就容易被炒作带偏了，我见过不少人，赶上了大热的Kickstarter项目，结果后来货迟迟不发货，或者到手发现根本没那么好，失望得不行。

It's really easy to get caught up in hype, and I've seen that when people get really caught up in hype for a really big Kickstarter, the disappointment levels are pretty extreme later on when it doesn't live up to that hype, and or there's delays on it, what have you.

说回炒热度这件事，众筹平台Kickstarter在一定程度上改变了这个玩法，现在大部分的热度都来自那儿。大家会为上面的众筹项目疯狂上头，可等游戏真做出来发售的时候，那股热情早就消得差不多了。

Hype, the Kickstarter game has really changed hype to some degree because that's where most of it is nowadays, And people get really hyped about Kickstarters, and that hype is considerably lessened when the actual game comes out.

就比如说，昨天还有人跟我说，那款之前炒得沸沸扬扬的游戏终于出了。

And, like, I would just someone yesterday mentioned that a very hyped game was out.

我当时都懵了，啊？出了吗？

And I was like, it it is?

我压根儿都没听说这回事。

I didn't even know about it.

我都不知道这游戏已经出了，但我还记得它当初在Kickstarter上众筹的时候，那阵仗可大了

I hadn't even heard that this game was out, but I remember when it was being on Kickstarter, it was a huge deal.

是啊

Yeah.

没错

Mhmm.

反正我是觉得挺唏嘘的

And that I don't know.

我觉得啊，消费者——对不起啊 Julie，你是在出版社工作的——但你最好的做法，基本就是别管那些炒作。

I I think I think you, consumer, and sorry to Julie because she works for a publisher, but your best bet is almost always to ignore all hype.

如果这游戏真那么牛、那么棒，迟早会再版的，你到时候照样能买到。

If the game is really that fantastic and that terrific, that will be reprinted, and you will get a copy of it.

你一定能找到真正的好东西，最好的办法就是等炒作消停了，别被它牵着鼻子走。

It is it you will be able to find the best stuff, and your best bet is to let that hype die down and not be manipulated by it.

你没必要花八百块去支持一个你根本不太了解的众筹项目。

You do not need to spend $800 on a Kickstarter you don't know a lot about.

深呼吸一下。

Take a breath.

你买回来一堆东西，盒子大得能把你埋了，家里人还得因为你花这么多钱跟你急。

Just because you'll get everything in, and the box will be big enough to you'll be buried in from your family killing you for spending all that money.

要是你真想买，不如先等等，看情况再说。

It's if you'll be okay, just wait.

我同意。

I agree.

我现在刚加入Cephalofair没多久，但之前在Van Rider的时候，我经常看到AJ给玩家留言，是这么说的：

So now I'm super new at at Cephalofair, but I will say at Van Rider, there were plenty of times where I would see AJ write to somebody, listen.

要是为了支持这个项目影响到你自己的生活了，那你完全没必要来 backing 我们的Kickstarter、Gamefound，或是任何我们的众筹项目。

If this is going to affect your quality of life, you do not need to back this Kickstarter or Gamefound or, you know, any any of our crowd.

真的没关系的。

It's okay.

我特别理解大家喜欢我们的作品，也很高兴大家这么期待，但这绝对不该以影响你自己的生活为代价。

I I understand that you're excited for us, and I'm really happy that you're excited for us, but that doesn't mean it should affect your quality of life.

别慌，我们这儿不会跑的。

Do not we're not going anywhere.

你大可以慢慢玩我们的游戏，想买也有的是时间。

You can play our games and buy them a little time.

没必要一股脑砸钱进去，还抱着那么高的期待。

You do not have to go all in on something and have this then high level of expectation.

其实他自己都敢公开跟大家说这话。

Like, he would he would tell people that on publicly.

你去翻一翻我们之前的Kickstarter项目，就能找到这些公开留言。

So you can go through our Kickstarters and find find the conversations.

现在我在Cephalofair，我们也抱着完全一样的理念，真的有太多太多这种情况了。

So and I feel like that's the same thing in Cephalofair that we you know, there's a lot.

我完全能理解大家的心情。

There's I get it.

特别是有些众筹项目是过了这村没这店的，大家难免会着急。

There's a lot, especially something that's a campaign that you can't do.

你没必要非要这么做的。

It doesn't mean you have to.

我也明白有些人天生就是这个性子，脑子停不下来，这对他们来说确实挺难的。但我们当然希望大家能喜欢我们的作品，

And I understand that there are people that that is their temperament, that is, you know, how their brain works, And so it's a challenge for them, and we but we're not we want people to be excited.

只是不希望大家陷得太深，最后反而影响了自己的正常生活。

We don't want people, so so involved in this that it is hurting their their life.

那样的话对谁都没有好处，完全失去了乐趣。

That is not that is not enjoyable for anybody.

对

Yeah.

没错

Yeah.

是这样的

Yeah.

有时候这样反而挺好的

Sometimes it's good

先好好享受那些你现在就能玩的游戏，为它们感到开心

to be excited about the games you can play

对的

Mhmm.

别先急着为那些还玩不了的内容上头

Before you get too excited about the ones you can't play yet.

接下来，又要讲一段桌游圈的惊悚小故事了

And now, another tale of board gaming horror.

天哪。

Oh my.

这也太吓人了。

That's horrific.

孩子们，都过来。

Gather round, children.

每年，我这群极客朋友都会去埃森展朝圣。

Every year, my group of geeky friends makes the pilgrimage to Essenspiel.

为了撑到那时候，我们每年还会搞个中场游戏周末，整整两天，就玩儿游戏、吃零食，享受和同好待在一起的宁静满足。

And every year, to tide us over, we organize a mid season spiel weekend, a full weekend of nothing but games, snacks, and the quiet satisfaction of being among your people.

我们这圈子很稳定，关系紧密，大家都懂，当有人说‘再玩一局’的时候，其实至少得七局起步。

It's a stable group, tight knit, the kind of people who understand that when someone says just one more turn, they mean at least seven.

但偶尔也会有新人加入。

But occasionally, a new player joins.

我说的是‘玩家’，不是‘朋友’。

I say player, not friend.

你们马上就懂为什么我要这么说了。

You'll understand why.

每年我们都会把成摞的桌游搬到桌上，远远多到根本玩不完。

Now every year, we haul towers of games to the table, far more than we could ever play.

其中有些是真的打算拿出来玩的。

Some are brought with genuine intent.

至于另一些嘛，说实在的，就是拿来炫的——收藏版啊，众筹限定款啊，这些盒子摆上桌根本不是为了拆开玩，就是拿来撑场面给别人看的。

Others, let's be honest, are brought to flex, collector's editions, Kickstarter exclusives, the kind of boxes you place on the table not to open but to be seen.

但今年不一样，我们有个正经目标

But this year, we had a mission.

今年咱们人数也凑齐了

This year, we had the numbers.

今年我们终于开了《权力的游戏》桌游第二版，而且还第一次加上了那个超火的《龙之母》扩展包

This year, we were finally playing Game of Thrones, the board game second edition, and for the first time ever, with the mother of dragons expansion.

开局的配置别提多爽了

The setup was glorious.

桌面上摊开的组件，活像一场中世纪战争会议——卡牌、标记、家族屏风，还有那块板子，那块美得让人屏息、细节满满的维斯特洛地图。

Components spread across the table like a medieval war council, cards, tokens, house screens, and that board, that beautiful, sprawling, detailed board of Westeros.

我们盯着它看的样子，就像丹妮莉丝凝视着铁王座一样。

We gazed upon it the way Daenerys gazed upon the iron throne.

接着，扩展版的板块也拿出来了。

Then came the expansion board.

得把它跟主版连起来。

We needed to connect it.

我们往左推了推。

We slid it left.

又往右挪了挪。

We slid it right.

拿尺子量了量。

We measured.

最后干脆凭眼睛估摸了一下。

We eyeballed.

我们歪着头，像一群迷糊的小狗。

We tilted our heads like confused puppies.

这玩意儿到底怎么接？

Where does it attach?

怎么才能对得上啊？

How does it line up?

这时候，那个新来的玩家——我可不敢说他是我朋友——一眼看出了门道。

And then the new player, I deliberately do not call him a friend, saw the solution.

他一脸笃定，好像从来不知道什么叫怀疑，一把抓起扩展版，咔嚓一下塞进主版的两块之间，用力一压。

With the confidence of a man who has never known doubt, he grabbed the expansion board, wedged it between two sections of the main board, and pressed down.

好像刚好能卡住。

It seemed to fit.

那一瞬间，真以为它严丝合缝了。

For one glorious hopeful second, it seemed to fit.

然后，我们听见了那声脆响。

And then we heard it.

那是任何桌游玩家都绝不想听见的声音。

A sound no board gamer should ever have to hear.

不是硬纸板弯折的声音，也不是桌游盒盖发出的咯吱声。

Not the sound of cardboard bending, not the creak of a box lid.

都不是。

No.

是东西被撕破的声音。

The sound of a tear.

就沿着那条折痕，直接把维斯特洛核心主棋盘——那张大得离谱、华丽到不行的中央棋盘，硬生生劈成了两半。

Right along the fold line, straight through the heart of Westeros, the central board, that glorious, gorgeous, sprawling, magnificent centerpiece had been ripped clean in two.

他那时候完全没发现出问题了。

He didn't even notice.

往后一坐，笑着说：搞定了。

He sat back, smiled, and said, there.

完美。

Perfect.

饭桌上瞬间一片死寂。

The table went silent.

六个成年人盯着这场残局，都看傻了。

Six grown adults stared at the carnage.

那狭海这下是真的变“狭窄”了。

The Narrow Sea was now quite literally narrow.

君临城直接和北境分家了——不是因为打仗，也不是什么政治博弈，纯粹就是这人没脑子瞎胡来搞出来的破事。

King's Landing had seceded from the North, not through war, not through politics, but through sheer reckless ignorance.

我们用胶带把它粘好了。

We taped it.

不然还能怎么办呢，只能粘起来接着用。

Of course, we taped it.

那局游戏我们还是开了。

We played the game.

我们还是像抢完整的维斯特洛大陆那样争来争去，但棋盘早就裂了，我们之间的信任也碎了。

We fought over Westeros as if it were still whole, but it wasn't, and neither was our trust.

所以我要给大家提个醒，都留心点。

So let this be a warning to all of you.

要是有新玩家加入你们的局，一定要盯着点他们的手——毕竟不光凛冬将至，还有别的麻烦也在找上门。

When a new player joins your group, watch their hands because winter isn't the only thing that's coming.

搞不好就是灭顶之灾。

Sometimes it's destruction.

我之前就碰到过这种事。

I've done this before.

但总不能把别人家的棋盘也造得稀烂吧。

But not to someone else's board.

我现在都没法脑补出现场到底是什么情况，但光听声音我就懂了。

I'd I'd have trouble picturing exactly what's what's going on here, but I can I can hear the sound?

光听听这动静，一切都尽在不言中了。

The sound is all I need to know.

可不是嘛，就是这种场面。

Oh, it's yeah.

我说真的，这段剧情写得太精彩了。

I I mean, the dramatic writing was brilliant.

不过话说回来，我完全能理解大家为什么会觉得不舒服。

But also, yes, I can I can see why people would be upset?

还有那个从未体会过质疑的角色的设定，是最让我觉得抓人的点。

I can also idea of someone who has never known doubt before was was the the clutch part for me.

就是那种一股脑莽进去的感觉。

Somebody just was like, just jam it in.

这，这没问题的。

That's that's fine.

没事的。

That's fine.

没关系的。

That's fine.

对的。

Yeah.

我之前拼拼图就干过这种事。

I've done that with puzzle pieces before.

就是你觉得这一块铁定能卡进去，

You know, you you think that this I'm sure this fits.

硬给摁进去了。

You jam it in there.

不然还能咋地？

What?

等等不对。

Wait a minute.

不对啊。

No.

我也不会这么干的。

I don't do that either.

这根本不对——埃里克，你咋回事啊？

That's not What's wrong with you, Eric?

不是这么搞的。

That's not how that goes.

而且到时候特别难分开，纸板都给你弄弯了。

And then it's really hard to get them apart, and you've bent the cardboard.

什么？

What?

停一下。

Stop.

什么？

What?

这事儿比我那块板子还让我烦。

That's bothering me more than the board.

拿个锤子来。

Get

锤子。

a hammer.

就轻轻敲一下，一点点就行。

Just tap it lightly just a little bit.

埃里克简直是个狠人。

Eric's a monster.

没错，我同意。

I agree.

这都什么跟什么啊？

What is going on here?

我本来就不是爱玩拼图的人，这事儿都让我闹心死了。

I'm not even a puzzle person, and this bothers me.

提问题哈。

Questions.

提问题咯。

Questions.

继续提问。

Questions.

提问时间。

Questions.

我们节目的听众希尔·玛有个问题想问，他说自己平时闲坐着给游戏卡带套塑封的时候，有这么个事儿。

We have a quick question from friend of the show, Hill Mar, who says as he slits in as he as he sits and sleeves his games he says, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我就是那种会给卡带套塑封的玩家。

I'm a sleever.

我想到一个要问Julie的问题

A question to Julie came to mind.

我也懂标准化很难，但至于要搞出那么一大堆尺寸，还分五种不一样的卡片大小吗？

I understand that standardization is hard, but why is it necessary to have a gazillion in five different card sizes?

我不是说什么小、中、大那种常规尺寸区分

I'm not talking about mini medium large size.

是连迷你款都能分出好几种完全不一样的大小来

I'm talking about different types of mini sizes.

什么美版迷你尺寸、Chimera的迷你尺寸、欧洲版迷你尺寸，还有标准版里的美版、欧版，甚至还有加菲猫系列桌游的卡牌尺寸，全不一样。

Mini USA cards versus mini Chimera versus mini Euro, or standard USA versus euro size versus Garfield games.

而且还远不止这些呢，做卡牌套的厂商都说了，市面上大概有四五十种完全不同的尺寸。

And it's it's more than that folks, because the people who make sleeves, I would I would say on average is about 40 to 50 different sizes.

真的多到离谱。

There's a lot.

对啊。

Yeah.

希尔玛啊，等哪天我当上宇宙女王了，肯定帮你搞定这个问题，行不？

Well, Hilmar, when I become queen of the universe, I can I can work on that for you?

赶紧把这个竞选口号打出来！

Run on that campaign.

她都已经在实现这个目标的路上走一半了。

She's on her way halfway there.

为什么卡牌尺寸就不能统一呢？

Why can't it be standardized?

因为玩家和设计师都是创意型的人，艺术作品本来就没有统一的尺寸标准。

Because gamers are and designers are creatives, and there's there's no standard frame size for art.

雕塑也没有标准尺寸，卡牌和桌游更不可能有统一的大小。

There's no standard size for sculpture, and there are no standard sizes for cards and board games.

创作者会说：‘我想这么设计，是因为这款游戏需要这样。’

A creative says, I want to do it this way because of this reasoning for this game.

有时候像我这样更偏向商业的人会问：‘这不能做成扑克牌或者桥牌的尺寸吗？’

And sometimes the people who are more on the business side of things, me, might say, couldn't that fit as a poker card and or a bridge card?

但他们总会说‘不行’，理由一大堆。

And they say no because of reasons.

你也不总得直接说‘不行’。

And you don't, always say, nope.

要是硬说必须用扑克牌尺寸，他们反而会纠结卡牌大小，忘了该专注的其实是游戏创意本身。

It's gonna be a poker card because then, they're distracted about the size of the card debate and not the finishing the creative part of making the game focus that they should be on.

所以这就是原因之一。

So that's that's the part of the reason.

另一个原因是，设计师在构思的时候心里都有明确的想法，这个尺寸往往对游戏本身是有意义的。

The other reason being that when they're designing it, they have something specific in mind, and often, there's a reason for it in the game.

不过也不绝对。

Not always.

有时候我看着那些卡牌也会吐槽，这设计太蠢了。

I sometimes look at cards and go, that was silly.

明明用标准扑克尺寸的卡牌就完全够用了。

That could have just been a poker sized card.

不过有时候也不能妥协，不行就是不行。

And sometimes, no.

我也会跟人聊这些

I have that conversation

聊得特别多。

often.

真的很多。

Often.

远不止是随便说说

Way more than sort

稍微提了一下。

of sort of touched on it.

是的。

Yeah.

不同玩法有不同的规矩。

That there's different conventions.

就算你谈所谓的标准尺寸，也有欧洲标准和美国标准之分。

Even if you're talking about, quote, unquote, standard sizes, that there's a euro convention, and there's a US standard convention.

有些厂家就直接说，

And, you know, there are some manufacturers who are just like, yeah.

这标准尺寸就该是这样。

This is a standard size of cards.

但你去问另一家厂商，他们说的标准尺寸又不一样。

But if you talk to a different manufacturer, they have a different standard size of cards.

天呐，不会吧

Oh, no.

真的不会

No.

真的不会

No.

你看啊，他们嘴上可能会这么说，但实际上呢？如果你是以出版商的身份去询价，就得像刚才提到的那样，精确到毫米，写清楚尺寸是44×63毫米才行。

When you're when I mean, they do they might say that, but when you so if you ask for a quote as a publisher, you are putting the millimeter just like just like he's written, 44 by 63 millimeters.

你嘴上可以说‘标准尺寸’，但得把具体尺寸参数写清楚才行。

You will put that in the so you can say standard, but you put in the measurements.

所以我每次都会特意纠正说法，要说‘标准桥牌尺寸’这类明确的词，就像刚才他那样，免得搞混了，拿到的尺寸和别人想要的对不上。

And I actually typically try to correct that and say standard bridge, standard like, much like what he just did, so that there's no confusion and you get a different standard size than somebody else.

还有啊，要是谁自告奋勇跑去跟欧洲的所有人说，你们得把卡牌尺寸统一成美国标准，或者反过来让美国人改成欧洲标准，

But also, if you would like to be the one to volunteer telling everybody in Europe they need to standardize cards to the, like, a US standardization or vice versa.

那请便，我可不干这差事。

Be my guest.

没错。

Right.

你尽管说吧。

Go for it.

除非我当上宇宙女王，否则这事儿我碰都不碰，十英尺远都嫌近，

Until I become queen of the universe, I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole or

好吧。

a Alright.

两米半的杆子都不碰。

Two and a half meter pole.

当宇宙女王啊。

Become queen of the universe.

是的。

Yeah.

检查清单，电线。

Checklist checklist wire.

大家都说带刺的玫瑰很常见，但带着呼啦圈的玫瑰可不多见啊。

They say that every rose has its thorn, but not every rose has a hula hoop.

行嘞。

Alrighty.

好了，言归正传，咱们今天来聊聊游戏。

Well, we are here to talk about games.

艾瑞克，你最近在玩什么游戏？又为啥讨厌这游戏呢？

Eric, what have you been playing recently, and why do you hate it?

不对啊，我怎么会讨厌这个呢？

Why do I hate it indeed?

不是的。

No.

我现在正在Post Curious出版社的美好场地里，为大家做现场报道。

I am reporting from the Rosy fields of the the publishing of Post Curious.

之前我们聊过不少我玩过的Post Curious出品的游戏，零零碎碎提了一些。

We've talked a lot of a little bit of of of the games I've played from Post Curious.

《阁楼上的光》就是我特别喜欢的一款塔罗风格游戏

The Light in the Attic being a tarot style game that I really enjoyed.

之后我又玩了《莫里森游戏工厂》，这是一款中等体量的盒式解谜游戏，我当时玩得超级入迷

Then I moved on to The Morrison Game Factory, which is sort of a medium box puzzle game that I really, really enjoyed.

最后我终于下定决心，支持了他们最新的众筹项目，还入手了两款大盒的冒险游戏

I finally pulled the trigger and backed their most recent crowdfunding campaign and got a couple of the big box adventures.

我拆的第一个就是《翡翠之焰》

And the first one I opened up is called The Emerald Flame.

这款游戏的游玩时长设计在六到九个小时左右

This is designed to be a six to nine hour experience.

总共分为三个大章节，每个章节差不多能玩两到三个小时

It's in three different acts, and and each one is about two to three hours.

它和很多解谜冒险类游戏一样，需要你四处探索解锁新区域、查看地图、解开谜题，把线索一点点拼凑起来

This is, like many puzzle adventures, has you opening things up, looking at maps, trying to solve puzzles, put pieces together.

你的目标是收集各种炼金材料，最终找到那瓶魔法药水

You're trying to track down alchemical ingredients to find a magical potion.

它的剧情没什么意思。

The story, not that interesting.

不过这个游戏的制作水准是真的高。

But the production of this.

关于这点，我其实…其实我之前差不多就料到了。

This, I'm I'm beginning to I mean, I pretty much knew this.

我早就猜到会是这样。

I guessed this.

我之前就看过他们的制作物料了

I've looked at the components before.

Post curious出品的解谜游戏绝对是行业顶流级别的

Post curious is like the Cadillac of puzzle experiences.

我也这么觉得

I agree.

这个游戏的制作质感真的太精致了

This is a gorgeously produced game.

我其实快把三封信里的第二封做完了，本来想说我在中间阶段，但实在忍不住要聊聊，这东西太美了。

I'm I I say I'm in the middle of it because I am almost done with the second envelope of the three, but I had to talk about it because it's so pretty.

别的设计公司也做这种精致的小玩意儿，感觉像精心策划的体验。

There are other, designs and and, and companies that produce these nice little they feel like curated experiences.

你可能会翻翻书页啥的，但Post Curious是真的玩到极致了。

You're looking at different book pages and and stuff, but post curious just really goes all out.

一个关于蘑菇的简单插画谜题，画得美得惊人。

It a simple illustrated puzzle about mushrooms is gorgeously illustrated.

看起来像一张地图。

It looks like a map.

简直像中世纪的手绘古籍。

It looks like a medieval illustrated manuscript.

里面还有好多小彩蛋。

There are goodies in here.

还藏了个圆规仪，用来解谜的。

There's a spirograph in here that you use to solve a puzzle.

里面还有一串念珠，我现在要把它铺在一块布艺地图上——这块地图是解谜游戏里的道具，做得简直太精致了。

There is, there's rosary beads that I'm putting on a fabric map, a fabric map for a puzzle game, and it is just stellarly done.

还有一点我特别欣赏，盒子里居然配了一整套复原工具包。

I also appreciate that there is a full reset kit in the box.

这个工具包的信封背面列得清清楚楚，每一幕游戏里有哪些道具，哪些道具给了备用份，全标注明白了。

It lists like, on the back of the envelope for this reset kit, it lists the components that are in each act and tells you which ones they've given you replacements on.

所以你完全放心，标注了有备用的道具，随便剪、随便在上面写字、怎么造都行；那些没标备用的珍藏款，好好留着就行。

So you can feel free to cut up or write on or do whatever to the ones that it says there's replacements in here, and then leave the nicer ones that don't have replacements alone.

上面特意写了，这片彩色玻璃窗的素材信封里没给备份，千万别撕坏或者在上面乱写乱画。

It specifically says, this stained glass window, there is not a replacement in this envelope, so don't go tearing it up and writing on it.

但这个就不一样了，你随便造都行，反正还有备用的。

But this, you can do whatever you want to because there's a replacement.

这点真的特别贴心。

I really appreciate that.

我用得特别开心。

It it makes me happy.

提示的形式我想想，有点像Instagram的限时动态。

Hints are, are in the form of I wanna say it's like an Instagram story.

就是一组可以滑动翻看的幻灯片，每个大谜题都配有差不多15张提示幻灯片。

It's a series of slides, that you can page through, but there's, like, 15 different slides for each major puzzle.

这样你就不会一下子被剧透完。

So you're not spoiled too quickly.

如果你卡关了，你只会得到刚好够用的小提示，帮你重新找到思路。

You get just the nudge you need to get you back on track if you run into a problem.

唯一需要提醒的是，玩这些的时候你得慢慢来，别着急。

The one caveat that I have here is that you need to take your time with these.

它们的设计初衷就是让你慢慢享受过程的。

They are designed to be an experience.

根本没有计时这一说。

There is no timer.

没人催你赶时间。

You're not on the clock.

你该好好享受这个过程。

You're supposed to just savor this.

我有时候发现自己太着急去点提示了。

And I would find sometimes that I was too quick to jump to the hint.

我卡住了。

I I'm I'm stuck.

我真的完全没头绪。

I really don't know.

算了，我还是去看看提示吧，看看它说啥。

I'm just gonna I'm gonna go to hint, see what it is.

我得好好琢磨一下这个提示系统。

I need to I need to review the hint system.

是的。

Yeah.

这事儿我真得好好办。

That's what I need to do.

结果往往是，要是我当时先放下它、过会儿再回来琢磨，多半自己就能想明白。

And then it's something that I probably could have figured out if I maybe walked away from it and came back.

所以我真心建议，如果你也在玩这类游戏，一定要慢慢来别着急。

So I would encourage if you are delving into one of these to take your time.

要是卡关了，就先放一放，回头再继续就好。

And if you're stuck, just walk away and come back.

又不是非要在一小时内把所有内容都通关不可。

It doesn't have to be all done in an hour.

这事你完全可以慢慢来，不用急

It you you can take your time with it.

这个东西做得太精致好看了

It is absolutely gorgeous.

我都迫不及待想把这个通关了

I can't wait to finish this one.

还有我之前支持的下一款，叫翡翠款的那个

And the next one I backed, the Emerald.

接下来我就要体验《翡翠回响》了

Emerald Echoes is the next one that I get to experience.

我真的超级期待

Very, very excited.

我当时就觉得这个肯定会很有意思

I knew I was going to like it.

几乎百分百确定我会喜欢它

I was pretty sure I was going to like it.

我真的超喜欢它的

I absolutely like it.

这个作品太惊艳了

This job this is amazing.

一朵超大的玫瑰

Big rose.

就是那种盛放的大玫瑰

Big old blooming rose.

《翡翠之焰》

The Emerald Flame.

我早就被圈粉了，埃里克。

I was already sold, Eric.

你不会是玩万花尺那会就被圈粉了吧？

You were sold at Spirograph?

可不是嘛。

Yeah.

没错。

Yes.

真的，真的太酷了。

It is it is very, very cool.

对。

Yeah.

给我们讲讲接下来这个作品吧。

Tell us about this next one.

另一个，我觉得这完全就是个呼啦圈体验。

The other one, I'm gonna I'm gonna categorize this as a Hula Hoopie experience.

我真没想到兰多夫会给我这个推盘运气游戏。

I was surprised to get this pusher luck game from Randolph.

它叫‘Rollie’。

It's called Rollie.

这游戏特别简单。

This is this is very simple.

目标就是在七轮里尽可能多拿分。

The goal is to win as many points as possible over the course of seven rounds.

Rollie 有两个骰子。

Rollie has two dice.

点数分别是负五、零、二、五、十，还有一个万能牌。

They have the values minus five, zero, two, five, 10, and then there's a wild.

上面有个 R，代表 Rollie。

There's an r for Rollie.

这个R代表Randolph，不过呢。

Now that r is for Randolph, but yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

这确实是Randolph的R。

It is the Randolph r.

桌上有叠好的纸币，按不同面值摆着——负五、零、二，等等，有人掷骰子。

You have paper money that's laid out on the table stacked up in those different values, the minus five, the the zero, the two, etcetera, and somebody rolls the dice.

只要两个骰子点数不一样，你就可以做选择。

As long as they're two different values, you now have a choice.

你可以选其中一个骰子显示的点数，不管是负五、零还是十，随便你。

You can take one of the two values that are displayed on the dice, including that minus five or the zero or the 10, whatever.

如果是R，那就是万能的。

If it's an r, it's wild.

你可以选任何一个数字。

You can pick any of the values.

或者，这些钱会暂时放在你面前，像一个临时存放区。

Or and it goes in sort of like a temporary holding in front of you right now.

你也可以把现有的钱存起来。

Or you can bank what you have.

要是我面前已经堆了几张钞票，觉得情况有点不妙了，

So, if I I've got a couple of bills in front of me, and I decide, you know, things are getting a little hairy.

我就干脆把钱存起来。

I'm just gonna bank this.

这轮我就不玩了。

I'm out for the round.

如果我是第一个这么做的，我就拿一个加分令牌。

If I'm the first one to do this, I take a little tiebreaker token.

上面标着从一到七。

There's a one through seven.

每轮都会出一张，第一个过的人就能拿到。

One comes up every round, and, somebody will win that whoever passes first.

然后这些钱就安全了。

And then all that money is safe.

翻过来之后，那张纸币上会有个小钱包标志，就像被塞进兜里一样。

It's it gets flipped over, and it has, like, a little the the piece of, paper money has a wallet sign on it like it's been tucked into a pocket.

挺贴心的小设计。

Cute little detail.

然后继续轮次，直到所有人都过牌，或者有人掷出对子。

And then you continue the round until everybody has passed, or somebody rolls doubles.

要是掷出对子，你就爆了，但你可能还能留下面前的钱——比如我掷了两个五。

If you roll doubles, you bust, but you might get to keep the stuff in front of you because, say, I rolled two fives.

如果我面前没有五块的钞票，那我就能留下所有摆在桌上的钱。

If I don't have a five bill in front of me, I get to keep what I have out there.

但我不能把它们存起来。

I don't get to bank it.

我之后还是得把它存进银行，但在下一轮开始前，这些筹码都还留在我面前。

I still have to bank it later, but it's in still in front of me till the next round.

但如果我面前刚好有面额5的钞票，那这一轮里我还没存起来的所有东西就都泡汤了。

If I have a five, however, I lose everything that I haven't banked that round.

你也有可能在第一轮、或者某一轮的第一次掷骰就掷出对子，这种情况下你只要把那枚决胜代币弃掉，直接进入下一轮就行。

It is possible to roll doubles on the first round or the first roll of a round, and then you just toss away that tiebreaker token and move on.

七轮结束后就可以算谁的总分最高，另外如果你凑出的5最多、或是负5最多，还能拿到一笔相当丰厚的筹码奖励。

After seven rounds, you see who has the most points, plus you get, if who I provide the most fives or negative fives, I get a pretty significant chip bonus.

所以没错，这会扣掉分数，但要是我比其他人都多扣了一点点分，我反而能拿到100分。

So, yeah, it's negative points, but if I have more negative fives than anybody else, just barely, I get a 100 points.

这个反转还挺有意思的。

That's kind of a cool twist.

我挺喜欢这些设计巧思的。

I liked the twists here.

不过我觉得这套规则对一个纯靠运气的休闲游戏来说，实在是有点太复杂了。

I almost think that this is a little too convoluted for a push or luck game.

这可不是《不能停》那种游戏。

This is not can't stop.

还有一些小细节得加进去，不过关键是有得选。

There's there's a few more little niggly bits that have to come in here, but there are choices.

我喜欢选哪个方向去发展的决定。

And, I like the decision of which build do I take.

我可能会挑那些小数字，反正我能拿最多，最后还能拿个不错的奖励。

I might go for those lower numbers because I know I can get the majority in them, and therefore get a nice bonus at the end.

或者我看别人在冲五。

Or I see that somebody's going for the the fives.

也许我根本不想拿五。

Maybe I don't want a five.

说不定我就直接冲那10分稳的。

Maybe I just wanna go for the straight 10 points.

我就喜欢这种抉择。

I like those decisions.

玩这个真的特别解压，而且那个叫罗利的角色做得超出我预期，我还挺喜欢的

It was it was a fun distraction, and I was surprised and mildly delighted by Rollie.

行吧

Alright.

害，我就完全喜欢不起来

Well, I'm mildly not delighted by it.

行吧

K.

这个设定根本不合理啊

It is not that good.

首先这游戏里大部分道具都像废纸一样没用，数值设定也完全乱了

First of all, the majority of this game is terrible paper money, and I think the numbers are off.

要是你攒了一堆2分的道具，最后能拿70分

If you win a bunch of twos, you get 70 points.

那我何苦去算手里那点钱啊，反正加分项才是决定输赢的关键

So why am I even bothering to count the money that I get when it's the bonuses that count?

其次，埃里克，根据规则，如果第一轮掷出对子，这一轮就直接结束了。

Secondly, Eric, according to the rules, if the first roll's a double, the round's over already.

是的。

Yeah.

什么？

What?

这也太蠢了吧。

That's so dumb.

平局这种情况设计得真够蠢的。

Didn't tie that comes out as dumb.

这设定简直蠢透了。

The this is dumb.

倒也不是特别差，就是太蠢了。

It's not horrible, but it's dumb.

好吧。

Okay.

你怎么

How do you

才能真正玩好那种推盘运气游戏啊，我

really get better pusher luck games out there, I

我同意。

I agree.

它不算顶尖，也不是最好的。

It is not top it is not cream of the crop.

它就是个

It is it is a

说得好。

say that.

虽然不是顶尖，但我确实玩得挺开心。

It's not cream of the crop, but I did enjoy it.

行吧。

Alright.

接下来我来聊聊朱莉说的那些游戏吧。

Now let me jump on Julie's games next.

好。

Okay.

好。

Okay.

《Poise》（保持优雅）这款游戏。

Poise.

猛扑。

Pounce.

蹲伏。

Crouch.

我开玩笑的啦。

I'm kidding.

其实这些观点我都站她那边，我认同她的说法。

I'm actually I'm I'm with her on these.

她做得比埃里克好多了

She's she did better than Eric.

不错啊

Great.

要是她不喜欢这些词的话，那咱们这整个设定就全乱套了

She doesn't like them, in which case the whole thing's messed up.

不会的

No.

我的天呐

So my goodness.

我现在能好好聊这个吗？我都迫不及待了

Am I excited to talk now?

当然可以

Yeah.

我这个‘美好瞬间’要讲的是《我们之间的那只猫》

My rose was The Cat Between Us.

这个游戏玩起来特别轻松，而且主题是猫猫，光凭这一点就已经戳中我了。

So this is a very light game where, again, it's cat themed, so it was already having things go for me.

一开始根本不用劝，我肯定会去玩的，但话说回来，很多猫咪主题的游戏都挺一次性的，玩过就不想碰了。

You know, it wasn't a hard sell to play it to begin, but but, you know, sometimes it's just the one and done with cat themed games.

不过这个游戏分两个阶段。

But you have two phase phases.

第一个是引诱阶段，

In your lure phase,

你呀

you

要把手里的一张牌放到六个玩具前面，目的是把猫咪引出来。这时候你手里有猫咪牌，就得盯着牌上的数字看了。

are placing one of your cards in front of the six toys because you're trying to lure cats out, and so you have cat and you're looking at the numbers at that point.

所以你得先看卡牌的数字，这些诱饵牌一共是六种不同的颜色。

So you look at the number of the cards, the lures are six different colors.

到这一步的时候，卡牌是什么颜色就无所谓了。

It doesn't matter what color the card is at that point.

你就把这些牌摆出来就行。

So you put them out.

举个例子，比如你在小老鼠玩具前面放了一张数字6的牌，那个玩具我记得是蓝色的。

So let's say you put, a six in front of the little mouse toy, which is, I believe, the blue.

那现在蓝色这个玩具的分值就是6分。

That means blue right now is worth six points.

这个机制的关键在于，每轮结束后，每种玩具最多只能叠加两张牌，然后你要算手里剩下的牌的分数：要是我手里还剩两张蓝色牌，那这两张牌就都要乘之前那张6的分值，加起来就是12分。

The importance of that is once the round is done and you can only have two cards per type of toy or type of you're going to look at the cards that are left over in your hand, and you're going to do so if I had two blue cards in my hands left over, I now have 12 points based on that six card.

所以你得先看看自己手里都有哪些颜色的牌。

So you're looking at the colors in your hand.

这个阶段的目标是，把你打出的牌的数字加起来，尽量贴近每回合开始时随机生成的那个数字，数字范围大概是1到36之间。

The object of that is you're trying to get as close to the number which is randomly generated at the beginning of each round from one to 36 ish.

你要尽可能凑出和目标数完全一致的点数，或是成为所有人里最接近那个数字的人。

You're trying to get the exact number or be the closest to that number on the top of the chart.

比如我现在凑出了12点，而目标是14点，那我就希望手里剩下的牌加起来刚好是2点，或者至少越接近2越好。

So, if I had 12 and my goal was to get to 14, I'm hoping that whatever other color I have in my hand only adds up to two or very close to it.

离这个数字最近的玩家就能在版图上前进一步。

The person who's closest gets to advance on the chart.

第一个走到终点房间的人就能赢下游戏。

The first person to the final room wins the game.

不过随着你不断前进，手里需要持有的牌会越来越多，想要精准凑数就变得越来越难。

As you advance rooms, though, you have to get more cards in your hand, which means it's harder and harder to be precise.

比如说游戏刚开局的时候，我只需要用三张牌凑数，那还是很轻松的。

So the beginning of the game, if I only need three cards to add up to the final thing, that's fine.

但到了游戏后期，快结束的时候，我就得凑五张牌加起来刚好到那个目标数了。

But towards the end of the game, I'm close to the end of the game, I'm trying to do five cards that add up to the correct amount.

对。

Mhmm.

所以那时候我就会找数值小的牌，不过其他玩家可能也猜到我这个想法，就会狂出数值是6的牌。

So I'm looking for smaller numbers, and other people playing might know that and put a lot more sixes out.

所以这个机制其实挺简单的。

So it's simple.