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欢迎收听《Drop the Needle》播客，这里是通往神秘领域的幕后通行证。
Welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast, your backstage pass to the mystical realm.
我是您的主持人吉姆·阿尔斯托特，在这里，有天赋的灵魂们走上话筒，分享他们的灵性旅程。
I'm your host Jim Alstott, and here, gifted souls step up to the mic sharing their spiritual journey.
我们将呈现他们觉醒过程中的高潮与低谷，谱写一曲启蒙的交响乐。
We're hitting the high notes and the low notes of their awakening, creating a symphony of enlightenment.
这不仅仅是一档访谈节目。
This isn't just another interview show.
这里是神圣洞见被传递、普世真理被揭示的地方。
This is where divine insights are channeled and universal truths are revealed.
所以，请调高你的音响，放松身心，因为谁知道呢，这或许能帮助你谱写灵魂使命中下一个变革性的篇章。
So crank up your stereo and sit back, because who knows, this just might help you compose the next transformative chapter of your soul's purpose.
你准备好了吗？
Are you ready?
我们开始吧。
Let's go.
大家好，欢迎来到《Drop the Needle》播客。
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast.
我是你们的主持人吉姆·阿尔斯托特，非常高兴你们选择加入我们。
I'm your host, Jim Alstott, and I am so happy y'all decided to join us.
你有没有那个总想锁在地下室里的自己——那个愤怒的、害怕的、总让你想起最糟糕时刻的自己？
You know that part of yourself you try to keep locked in the basement, the angry one, the scared one, the one that reminds you of your worst moments?
是的。
Yeah.
就是那个。
That one.
今天这位嘉宾花了二十多年的时间，不只是和这些部分对话，还邀请它们共进晚餐。
Well, today's guest has spent over twenty years not just talking to those parts, but inviting them to dinner.
史蒂文·托伊在童年创伤后开始了阴影工作之旅。
Steven Touig started his shadow work journey after childhood trauma.
他跟随托尼·罗宾斯学习了十年， somehow 想出了如何将深层灵性修行与战略商业咨询结合起来。
He studied under Tony Robbins for a decade and somehow figured out how to blend deep spiritual work with strategic business consulting.
他曾经为从财富500强公司到参加阿亚瓦斯卡仪式后的人们提供过服务。
He's worked with everyone from Fortune 500 companies to people coming off of Ayahuasca ceremonies.
他还写了一本书，名为《向内转变：从阴影中 reclaim 你的灵魂》。
And he wrote a book called Turning Within, Reclaiming Your Soul from Shadow.
但真正吸引我的是这一点。
But here's what grabbed me.
史蒂文并不假装自己已经完全康复或觉悟了。
Steven doesn't pretend he's all healed and enlightened.
他坦率承认，自己体内仍困着一个受过创伤的三岁小孩，随时可能冒出来。
He straight up admits he still got a traumatized three year old trapped in his body who can show up anytime.
他称自己为灵魂之友，并将他的工作描述为追寻‘metanoia’——也就是彻底的精神转化，但手中还拿着一杯咖啡。
He calls himself a soul friend and describes his work as chasing metanoia and that means complete spiritual transformation, but with coffee in hand.
所以，如果你曾想过，你最大的混乱是否可能正是你最重要的讯息，或者你好奇当你不再逃避阴影、而是开始与之共舞时会发生什么，那就请继续听下去。
So if you've ever wondered whether your biggest mess might actually be your greatest message or if you're curious what happens when you stop running from your shadow and start dancing with it instead, stick around.
接下来的对话将变得非常真实。
This conversation's about to get real.
欢迎，兄弟。
Welcome my brother.
你最近怎么样？
How are you doing?
我很好，老兄。
I'm doing great, man.
你呢？你怎么样？
How are you doing?
我非常好，很高兴今天我们能在一起，因为我们有很多事情要聊。
I'm very well and I'm so glad we are here together today because we've got so much to talk about.
首先，如果你不介意的话，能不能简单介绍一下你自己，你做什么工作？然后我会进一步深入探讨，特别是关于‘metanoia’这个概念。
And one of the first things I would say is if if you're okay, I'd like you to maybe give a just a brief description of yourself, what you do, and then I'm gonna start digging into it a little bit deeper, especially metanoia concept.
说吧。
So fire away.
谢谢你，兄弟。
Thank you, brother.
我所做的事，我想明确一点，人们花好几年跟我一起工作，才试图理解其中一部分。
So what I do and and I wanna be very clear that people spend years working with me trying to understand some of it.
我做的大部分事情，从基础层面来看，至少需要一个周末才能真正内化。
And most of the stuff that I do at a at a basic level can take at least a weekend just to kind of embed.
所以我会尝试跳过所有这些细节，直接给出一个结构。
So I'm gonna attempt to jump across all that and and and give a a structure.
每个正在听的人，现在在你们心里，就说一声‘你好’，他们就出现了。
Everybody that's listening in your mind right now, in your mind, just say the word hello, and there they are.
而他们永远不会停止说话。
And they don't ever shut up.
你正漂浮在名为‘你’的故事之河中，坐在名为‘此刻’的船里。
And you're floating down the river of the story called you in the boat called now.
你一直都在这条河里，一直都在名为‘此刻’的船上。
And you've always been in that river, and you've always been in the boat called now.
但你的思绪却早已飘到了别处。
Now your mind is anywhere but.
现在想象一下，在水面之上，有无数艘你随时可以登上的船。
Now imagine on the on the on the surface of that water, imagine there's an infinite number of boats that you can be in in any given time.
在任何给定的时刻，你都有整整十四万亿件事可以做。
There's 14,000,000,000,000 things you can be doing at any given moment.
你可以去任何你想去的地方。
You can be anywhere you want.
你所处的这艘船，远不止是一艘船那么简单。
The the boat that is you is more than just the boat.
这些想法始终存在，而你正浮在水面上，四周被这些纷繁杂乱的想法包围。
There's all these different thoughts that are always and you're on the surface of this water, and it's just cluttered with all these thoughts.
到处都是想法。
There's thoughts everywhere.
有无数不同的船，都是意义的微小构造。
There's all these different boats, little constructs of meaning.
它们彼此互动，而我们却以为自己只是那水面。
They're all interacting with each other, and we think that we're just the surface.
这并不正确。
That's just not true.
然后你还有潜意识。
Then you have the subconscious.
那么，'hello'是什么意思？
Well, what does hello mean?
H e l l o。
H e l l o.
你得学会这个声音。
You have to learn that sound.
大家都说一声'hello'。
Everybody say hello.
你天生就知道'hello'的含义。
You knew intrinsically, you knew what hello meant.
你不需要重新将这个声音与意义联系起来。
You didn't have to reassociate to the sound.
那个想法就是潜意识。
That thought is the subconscious.
它是你所认知的意义结构，它向你呈现为一种模拟，也就是你正在体验的表象，然后你还有所有的水。
It's the the structure of meaning that you know that presents to you like a like a like a simulation, the the presentation that you're experiencing, and then you have all the water.
大多数人称它为无意识。
Most people call that unconscious.
我更愿意称它为深层意识，因为那里的一切都在以非常特定的方式运作。
I like to call that the deep conscious because everything down there is moving in a very specific way.
它是有生命的。
It's alive.
它完全不是在沉睡。
It's anything but asleep.
罗伯特·弗里茨说，心灵会选择阻力最小的路径。
Well, Robert Fritz says that the mind takes the path of least resistance.
问题是，我们还没有深入到河流流动的最根本层面，去理解是什么让水流以这种方式运动，而我们每个人都有这些自我讲述的故事，那个坐在船里的部分并不想听。
The problem is we haven't gone down into the into the very bedrock of the flow of the river and what kinda makes it move the way it does, and we all have these, stories that we've told ourselves that the part of me that's in the boat doesn't wanna hear.
我不愿听到自己不够好。
I don't wanna hear that I'm not good enough.
我不愿听到你不会爱我。
I don't wanna hear that you're not gonna love me.
我不愿听到这些，所以我把它们投射到日常世界中，试图避开那些我不希望发生的事——那些藏在水下的部分正将它们投射到水面上。
I don't wanna hear that and so what I do is I project that out into the everyday world and try to avoid that thing that I don't want to happen that some part of me underneath the water is projecting onto the top of the water.
大多数人一生都在追逐外在的东西，以解决水下发生的信号。
Most people spend their lives chasing something outside of themselves to solve a signal that's happening underneath the water.
我的工作深入水下，从根本上重新调谐和校准这个信号。
My work goes underneath the water and basically retunes and recalibrates that signal.
于是我停止追逐那些引发连锁反应、导致我们所有人经历痛苦与创伤的循环与模式。
So I stop chasing the thing that is causing the thing that's chasing the thing that's these loops and cycles of suffering and trauma that we all experience.
我已经这样做了二十五年。
And I've been doing that for twenty five years.
我一直在追逐，换了个不同的语境，可以说是在追逐龙。
I've been chasing it's different different context, chasing the dragon, so to speak.
明白了。
Gotcha.
明白了。
Gotcha.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我一直在想，当你作为朋友的时候，我觉得你或许应该把那个说法改成‘潜水员’，因为你确实是在潜入水下，对吧？
So I was thinking about when you're the the friend, I was like, maybe you should start maybe you should change that to the scuba diver because you're going under the water there Yes.
你在水下做一些工作呢。
A little doing a little underwater work there.
不，这可是非常重要的事，因为真正的改变正是从这里开始的——当你能够保持在场，有觉知地活在当下，只是去观察此刻，因为你没错。
No, that's that's some big big stuff because that's where real change starts to occur when you can be present and you know, mindful moments and just examine it in the now because we you're right.
当然，你说得对。
Well, of course, you're right.
你是这个领域的专家。
You're an expert in this area.
但我的意思是，我们陷入困境的方式真是疯狂。
But I mean, it's crazy how we get stuck.
而且，我们每天有85%左右的想法，甚至可能更高，都是重复的吗？
And what what was it like 85% of our thoughts or something like that, maybe even higher, are the same thoughts each and every day?
其实比那还要高一点。
So Well, it's little higher than that.
对吧？
Right?
87%。
87.
美国国家科学基金会指出，这只是主观的自我觉察。
So the National Science Foundation suggests just think and this is a subjective awareness.
试着超越它，把它称为你的情感家园。
Just look past and call it your emotional home.
我们可以称之为你的默认心态。
We can call it your default mindset.
就把它称为你所秉持的身份。
Just call it the identity you live out of.
回过头去看看你这一周。
Just go back and look at your week.
回过头去看看你这个月。
Go back and look at your month.
回过头去看看你这一年。
Go back and look at your year.
你所想的任何5%的想法都是重复的。
Any 5% of the thoughts you think are repetitive.
所以你
So you
一塌糊涂。
have shit.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
你一直周复一周地想着同样的事情。
Just look at you've been thinking the same thing week after week after week.
你一直靠着同一个内在的现实构架在生活。
You've been navigating from the same internal construct of reality week after week.
95%。
95%.
原因很简单。
And the reason is simple.
处理思维和大脑需要消耗你超过20%的热量摄入。
It takes over it takes over 20% of your caloric intake to to process the mind, the brain.
这太多了。
That's a lot.
它比其他任何器官都需要更多的能量。
It's more than any other organ.
因此，大脑会产生新的想法——一个全新的概念或新想法，但数量非常有限；而你还有旧的想法。
And so the mind, you have the thought, the new thought, which is a new concept, new idea, which is a very limited amount, but then you have old thoughts.
这些是已经被思考过的想法。
These are thoughts that have already been thunk.
它们更高效。
They're more efficient.
因此，大脑的主要任务是创造和理解意义，然后进一步演化这种意义。
So the primary directive of the mind is to create and navigate meaning, and then it goes and it evolves that meaning.
第三，这是一种劫持——我们被劫持以求生存。
And then third, which is a hijacking, we've been hijacked to survive.
在那95%的想法中，有87%会回头审视你的每周生活，所有正在听的人。
Eighty seven percent of the 95% of the thoughts go back and look at your weeks, everybody that's listening.
回头看看你的每周、每月、每年，你会发现你一直在维持现状。
Go back and look at your weeks, your months, your years, and notice that you're maintaining circumstance.
大多数人并不会去构建理想。
Most people don't build the ideal.
大多数人只是在应对现状，而这个现状是由他人传递下来的，再往前追溯十三亿五千万年，都是这样传递下来的，这就让人不禁想：等一下。
Most people manage the circumstance and that circumstance has been handed by somebody that's been handed by somebody that's been hand all the way back thirteen point five billion years and it's like, well, hold on a minute.
你究竟从哪里出发去导航？
Where are you navigating from?
是什么样的理念在支撑着你？
Like, what is the idea that carries you?
我们发现，这些理念大多都是‘我需要解决这个问题’，这是一种类型的想法，或者‘这就是我想要的’。
We find that most of those ideas are I need to solve this problem, which is one type of thought, or this is what I want.
这就是我渴望的东西。
This is the thing that I'm yearning for.
大多数人并不会设计理想。
Most people don't design the ideal.
大多数人只是在应对现状。
Most people manage circumstance.
我们产生的想法中，大约87%都是基于生存的、攻击性的、带有负面偏见和确认偏误的想法。
About 87% of the thoughts that we think are survival rooted, attack thoughts, negative bias, confirmation bias.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这就是数据。
That's the number.
87%。
87%.
没错。
Yes.
这87%一定是一种生存本能。
That 87% has got to be a survival instinct.
你刚才说得对，已经讲得很到位了。
That that's so far you brought it right up.
确实是。
It is.
当你谈到这些想法追溯到远古时代时，那是不是就是信念体系以及由此产生的模式？
When you're talking about those thoughts going back in in eons, So is that then belief systems and then patterns that occur from that?
还是说先有模式，再有信念？
Or is it patterns then beliefs?
或者这真的重要吗？
Or does it really matter?
哪个是先出现的，是的。
Which came from Yeah.
那么，什么是信念？
Well, what is a belief?
所以我们开始深入水面之下，开始谈论原型。
So we start to get underneath the water, We start to talk about archetypes.
我们开始谈论符号。
We start to talk about symbols.
我们开始谈论这个，因为大脑渴望模式，比如，意义构建的第三个方面是故事，也就是叙事的流动。
We start to talk about because the mind craves patterns and, like, for example, the third facet of a construct of meaning is story, which is the flow.
这会如何收场呢？
How is this gonna end up?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
我们大多数人从小就被教导，要通过自我主导的英雄之旅来定位自己的人生，也就是我们深入黑暗之中。
And most of us have been taught to orient our existence through the egoic hero's journey, which is the the we go down we we go into the darkness.
我们经历考验与磨难。
We we go through trials and tribulations.
我们对抗巨大的考验。
We we fight the big ordeal.
我们获得了那种丰富性，那是体验，是关于我们真实自我的新觉知，然后我们将它带回部落，循环往复。
We get the the the the muchiness that is the experience that is the new awareness of who we really are, and then we bring that back to the tribe, and we cycle through that.
那就是旧有的模式，但那个模式已经过时了。
That's the that's been the old model, but that old that that model is dead.
我们现在需要超越它，继续进化。
We we need to evolve now past that.
迈克尔·梅德称之为天才的故事，即一种独特的表达，只能通过吉姆、只能通过你来呈现。
Michael Mead calls it the story of the genius where there's a unique expression that can only come through Jim, that can only come through you.
你只是顺流而下，带着一个叫做‘你’的故事。
You can't you're only floating down the river with a story called you.
意识就是第一人称视角。
And consciousness is first person perspective.
如果你认真想想，所有有意识的东西，总是通过第一人称视角来看世界。
Like, if you really think about it, everything that's conscious is always seeing through their through first person.
没有任何信息不是第一人称的，对。
There's no information that's not first yeah.
因此，这种结构中存在一种错位，它认为我必须意识到这一点，现在问题变成了：这究竟为了什么？
And so that structure, there's a misalignment that thinks that somehow I need we become aware of that, and now the question becomes, what is this for?
是时候清醒地认识到，吉姆，你是个天才。
It's time to wake up to the fact that, Jim, you're a genius.
你是上帝以人类形式的表达。
You're God having a human expression.
那这意味着什么？
And and what does that mean?
因为如果我们不因人工智能、无限能源，以及这些美好事物所带来的影响而达到这种觉醒，我们就必须对自身作为创造者的真实身份有所认知，否则我们将无法继续前行。
Because if we don't come to that because of AI, because of limitless energy, because of because of because of because because because because of the wonderful things it does, we we have to come to some kind of awareness of who we are as a creator because we're not gonna be able to continue to move forward.
它正迫使我们坐到桌前。
It's forcing us to the table.
明白了。
Gotcha.
这就是正在发生的事。
That's what's happening.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yep.
我不确定我是不是说错了。
I don't know if I I got off of No.
不对。
No.
不对。
No.
不对。
No.
不对。
No.
你知道吗？
I you know what?
我带你进了兔子洞，而你跳了进去，所以这完全是
I led you to the rabbit hole and you jumped so that's It's
你的错，吉姆。
your fault, Jim.
我怪你。
I blame you.
我来承担责任。
I take the blame.
那我们来谈谈转变这个概念吧。
So let's talk about the metanoia concept.
是的。
Yes.
你手里拿着咖啡，正在追逐转变或转变本身。
You're you're chasing the metanoia or metanoia with coffee in hand.
是的。
Yes.
在我的书《向内转变》中，我讲述了这个故事。
In my book, Turning Within, I tell the story.
在希腊神话中，metanoia 是一个出身不明的角色，常与 Keros 为伴。
Metanoia is a is in in in Greek mythology is a character of unknown origin that hangs out with Keros.
而 Keros 是转变的女神。
And Keros is the the goddess of transformation.
我认为，这恰恰体现了神与女神的丰富内涵。
And I think that this right there is just the richness of god, goddess.
metanoia 指的是在结构层面的彻底转变。
And metanoia is a a total change at the structural level.
我们有一种错误的定位，认为自己是生活在表层、以生存为根基的。
We have a a misorientation that we are we are surface dwelling, survival rooted.
我们试图在平面、物质化的层面获取一切。
We're trying to get everything on the flat plane, materialistic.
我们本是创造者，却被编程成了消费者，这意味着我试图在外在层面解决下面发生的信号。
We are creators that have been programmed to be consumers, which means that I try to solve the signal that's going on down there externally.
但再说一遍，我要回到这一点：宇宙在说，现在是你该醒来了。
But, again, I'm gonna come back to say the universe is saying it's time for you to wake up.
一切都在变得越来越快。
Everything is getting faster.
以前特伦斯·麦肯纳称之为零点的东西，即每千年发生的 novelty 量，现在大约每百年就发生一次，而以前每百年发生的事，现在大约每十年就发生一次。
And what used to take Terrence McKenna called it I think it was zero point, but the amount of novelty that happened every thousand years is now happening about every 100, and what happened every 100 years is about happening about every 10.
而过去需要十年才能出现的新事物、新奇事物，现在大约每年就会发生一次。
And and the amount of new things, novelty things that happened that used to take 10 are now happening about every year.
这既体现在人类整体层面，也体现在我个人的生活中。
And that's both collectively as a species and individually in my life.
我的生活真的变得飞快。
My life is really moving fast.
我打开电视，就能看到57个频道都在播放以生存为导向的编程内容。
I can turn on the news and hit 57 channels of survival rooted programming.
对吧？
Right?
无处不在。
It's everywhere.
我接收得更多了。
I'm taking in more.
我处理得更多了。
I'm I'm processing more.
我们正在加速，而这种加速迫使我们必须彻底改变——我必须改变自己看待现实的方式，因为再说一遍，你87%的思维都是基于生存的。
We are speeding up, and that speeding up is causing us to have to change the whole way that I I have to change the way that I orient my reality because I mean, just again, 87% of your thinking is survival rooted.
那是什么？
And what is that?
嗯，大脑会预测并引导方向。
Well, the mind, it predicts and it steers.
这就是它的功能。
That's what it does.
但它从哪里进行预测呢？
But what does it predict from?
它基于过去所知的信息进行预测，而由于我们前进得太快，过去发生的事情已经不再像以前那样了。当我们再向前迈几步时，已经离它相当远了。
Well, it predicts from what it knew And what happened back there because of how fast we're going is no longer like, when we move forward another couple steps, we're not very far off from it.
我们现在前进得如此之快，以至于我之前以为发生在过去的事情——其实那才是真正的情况——已经不再准确了。
We now are going so fast that the thing that I thought was happening back there that I because that's really what it is.
那并不是真正发生过的事情。
It's not what really happened.
那只是我作为一个三岁孩子时，盲目、聋哑且无知的视角。
It was my my blind, deaf, and dumb perspective from a three year old.
我们之前谈过那个三岁孩子。
Again, we talked about the three year old.
对吧？
Right?
我那个三岁孩子试图预测我们将去往何方，但他只会呆坐在那里，完全困惑，因为一切都对不上了。
My three year old trying to project onto where we're going, he's not he's just gonna sit and be dumbfounded because it won't line up.
我们被迫从当下最根本的本质中，开始创造新的意义。
It we're being forced to start to make new meaning from the very essence that is now.
我们别无选择。
We have no choice.
人工智能正迫使我们深化意识，这是一种彻底的转变。
AI is forcing us to deepen our conscious so that's a that's a that's a metanoia.
这是一种彻底的、彻底的转变。
That's a total total transformation.
你提到的一些事情很有趣，比如宇宙在加速，类似的现象，很多人相信我们的宇宙正在升级，这是一个特殊时期，许多人将开始经历精神觉醒。
So what's interesting with some of the things that you're talking about, the universe speeding up and things of that nature, there are a lot of people that are of the belief that our universe we're we're leveling up and it is it is a time where we'll just call it from a spiritual perspective, spiritual awakenings will start happening to a lot of people.
我开始思考的是，人们正被迫加速跟上步伐。
And what I started to think about is where the people are being forced to get up to speed.
似乎也有一部分人并不认同这种升级，选择退出。
There's also it seems like there are a number of people that may not be cool with that leveling up and exit.
所以我在想，这究竟是巧合，还是某种编程、契约，或你愿意称作的其他东西的一部分——要么跟上节奏，要么离开。
So I'm wondering if it's coincidence or it's just part of that programming or their sole contract or whatever you might want to call it to either get with the program or get out type of thing.
因此，他们正在做出选择，选择离开。
And so they're making their choices to head for the exit.
是的
Yeah.
我我真的不认为这里有任何一个人不知道自己为什么在这里。
I I I don't I just don't I don't think anybody's here that doesn't know that they're here.
某种程度上，你来到这里是因为这里。
Like, some part of you came here because of here.
这背后是有原因的。
There's a reason.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
是的
Yeah.
我完全同意这一点。
I absolutely agree with that.
有些人可能相信轮回，有些人可能不相信。
That that people, some people maybe believe in reincarnation, some people may not.
但轮回这一理论或思维过程的一部分是，我们需要学习一些教训或经历一些体验，尤其是作为人类的经历。
But part of that theory or thought process of reincarnation is that there are lessons to learn or experiences to have, human experiences to have, in our instance.
14万亿。
14,000,000,000,000.
在我们当前的时代和地点，作为人类，你随时可能从事不同的事情。
You could have different at any given moment that you can be doing as a human right now in our time and place.
有史以来从未有过比现在更好的时代来活着，至少据我们所知。
Never a time and better time in recorded history to be alive, at least as far as we know.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
到目前为止。
So far.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Right.
到目前为止。
So far.
谁知道接下来的六个月会带来什么，考虑到事情正在加速，你知道的，从100到
Who knows what the the next six months is going to have in store based on how things are speeding up, you know, from a 100 to
10。
10.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
我觉得我们撑不过一年，就会迎来下一次飞跃，你知道的。
I I don't think we're gonna make it a year before we have these next leaps, you know.
确实看起来是这样。
It certainly seems that way.
所以我也说不准。
So I don't know.
我在开头提到过，我曾为托尼·罗宾斯工作，或者和他一起做阴影工作。
I you know, I mentioned in in the opening working for or working with Tony Robbins and to do shadow work.
你能跟大家简单讲讲这段经历吗？
Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about that experience?
关于和托尼一起工作？
About working with Tony?
哦，那Again，我来自爱荷华州。
Oh, that was again, I'm from Iowa.
所以我是个来自爱荷华的中西部男孩，有幸有机会开始做阴影工作。
So I'm a I'm a Midwest boy from Iowa that had the opportunity to I had the opportunity to start doing this shadow work.
不知怎么的，在爱荷华州的波邓镇中间，有一群天才聚在一起，做着一种叫做阴影工作的事情。
Somehow, in the middle in in the middle of Poe Dunk, Iowa, there's this group of geniuses that got together, and they're doing this thing that's called shadow work.
我接触到这个是在康复期间，这些人都在康复中。
And I got to I got to it was in recovery, and these these guys were all in recovery.
于是他们开始做自己的功课，而在这里的每个人都有自己的道路。
And so they started doing their work, and so everybody here has got their path.
对吧？
Right?
这就是这些人找到的道路。
That was the path these guys had found.
我遇到了这些人，当时我在一个工作坊里，其中一个人说，这是托尼·罗宾斯的东西。
And I ran into these guys, and I was at a workshop and one of them said, this is Tony Robbins stuff.
接下来你猜怎么着？我听说托尼·罗宾斯在招人，于是我不断纠缠那个人，因为我付不起参加他工作坊的费用。
And the next thing you know, I saw Tony Robbins was hiring and I just kept bugging the guy because I couldn't afford to go to his workshop.
所以我一直缠着他，直到他们雇了我，就这样，我总共为他工作了大约十四到十五年。
So I kept bugging him till they hired me and that's how I and so I spent actually a longer in total about fourteen, fifteen years working for him.
好的。
Okay.
对，而且。
And yeah.
然后开始做合伙人，也就是客户经理，这很棒。
And started working as a par, which is a account manager, which was great.
你会去参加各种活动，从螺旋动力学的角度来看，这些人都是追求进取的驱动型人物。
You you you kinda go to the events and these people are all from a Spiral Dynamics standpoint, they're striver drivers.
他们都努力成为自己所能达到的最顶尖状态。
They're all just trying to be the very best of the very best of who they are.
他们借助竞争来实现这一点，是一群了不起的人。
They use competition to do so and just an amazing group of people.
后来，我开始涉足业务方面，因为这正是我的专长之一。
And, then I started working in the business end because that was kinda my my knack, one of the things.
归根结底，就是更多的系统而已。
It's just more systems at the end of the day.
我去那里的原因是我看到了托尼。
And and the reason I went there is because I saw Tony.
他让某人站出来，大约十五分钟内，你就不会再拥有你现在所知道的这些信息。
He stood somebody up, and within about fifteen minutes, you're not gonna be able to know what you now know.
他们以为阻碍自己的东西，其实根本不是真正的问题所在。
Like, the thing they saw they thought was blocking them wasn't the thing that was blocking them at all.
他们意识到自己正在创造现实，这正是我所认为的——他正在做和那些人同样的事，只不过是在全球范围内进行。
They saw that they were creating the very reality and that's really what I've been I'm like, he's doing the same thing these guys are doing, but he's doing it on a global level.
于是我开始为他工作，他当时正在打造一个名为《商业精通》的商业项目。
So I went to work for him and he's was just building this business program called Business Mastery.
嗯。
Mhmm.
于是他们把我调到了那里，我渐渐找到了感觉。
And so they they they moved me in there, I kinda got a knack.
我想看看商业精通是否和阴影一样，也在影响着商业目标。
And it's like, well, I wanna see if business mat I wanted to see if shadow, was the same was was was impacting business was the goal.
所以我一直坚持做影子练习。
So I just kept doing shadow.
我的深度工作就是不断提出同样的问题，而这些问题总能带来相同的答案。
My depth work, I just kept asking the same prompts that kept delivering the same.
你在生活的哪些方面感到痛苦？
Where where in your life do you suffer?
你在哪些地方遇到困难？
Where are you finding struggle?
然后我们深入这些困难，我不断往里挖掘。
And then we go into the struggle, and I keep diving down in there.
百分之九十九点九九的情况下，有一本书叫《十亿美元的损失》。
And ninety nine point nine nine, like, there's a book out called billion dollar losses.
他们去做了研究。
It's like they went and researched.
大约87%的企业都是如此。
It's like 87% of all business.
你从一开始就在走错方向。
It's like you're running the wrong way to begin with.
你甚至都不知道当他们往下走的时候，嗯。
It's like you don't even know when when they go down and Mhmm.
他们真的做了研究，结果发现，这些部分正是我们压抑和否认的阴影。
Really did the research that at the end of it, it shadowed the parts that we hydropressed and denied.
我正在往上面投射某些东西，却看不到它。
I'm projecting something on it and I can't see it.
我只能通过我的掌控、预测和预期来看到它。
I can only see it from my steering, my predicting, my anticipation.
所以我一直就这样做着。
And so I just kept doing that.
他们最终建起了——我的意思是，当我刚开始为托尼工作时，我们在商业部门每场活动大约有100人，一年办两次。
They ended up building I mean, he took when I started working for Tony in the business department, we were doing business master events for about a 100 at a time, and we were doing two a year.
等我做完时，我们在拉斯维加斯一场活动已经有五千人了，还在佛罗里达办，而且我们也确实做了。
And by the time I got done, we were doing 5,000 head we were doing 5,000 head in Las Vegas, and we were doing them in Florida, and we were doing yeah.
我的意思是，这对我来说其实是一种福气，因为我看到了，这种工作其实并不重要。
I mean, it was it was kind of really a blessing for me because I got to see that this is this work, it doesn't matter.
它具有可扩展性。
It scales.
所有的数学计算从内到外、从外到内，全都对得上。
It it all the math adds up all the way in, all the way down, all the way in, all way out.
但我感受到了影响力。
But I got the impact.
那时，我有我自身的一部分。
My at that time, I had this part of me.
就像每个人都有我所说的‘核心阴影’。
Like, everybody has what I call a core shadow.
而我的一个核心阴影就是：我会被拒绝。
And one of the core shadows, one of them I have is I'm gonna be rejected.
所以首先，我最终进入销售行业的原因，就是因为这是我的一个阴影。
So first off, the reason I ended up in sales was because that was one of my shadows.
你可能会想，一个总是害怕被拒绝的人，最不该做的工作难道不是销售吗？
You would think, why would somebody who was constantly in fear of being rejected, number one job you probably shouldn't do is go into sales?
但对我而言，在我的结构里，水会找到它的光明意识。
Well, it allowed me in my structure, Water finds its light consciousness.
我可以将自己投射到这个世界。
I could project out on the world.
我之所以觉得会被拒绝，是因为他们拒绝的是它——这让我能感受到自己的被拒，并且想：这种感觉真好。
The reason why I'm feeling like I'm gonna be rejected is because they're gonna reject the it gave me I could feel my rejection and go, this feels good.
同时，我也经历了一段英雄之旅，一种结构：如果我能让人说‘好’，也许我就没事了。
And at the same time, I had also a hero's journey, a structure that if I can get that person to say yes, maybe maybe I'll be okay.
然后，如果你能对足够多的人讲话，改变足够多的生命，产生足够大的影响，另一个恐惧就是：我会成为一个无用的人。
And then it was if you can if you can speak in front of enough people, if you could change enough lives, if you can make a big enough impact, the other one was I'm gonna be a bum.
于是我开始面对越来越大的人群。
And so I started to bigger bigger crowds.
我成长了，就像之前一样，嗯。
I I grew like, again, I was Mhmm.
从结构上来说，我环游世界，教授所谓的七种力量。
Structurally speaking, traveling around the world, teaching what's called the seven forces.
就像，我一个来自爱荷华州小镇的男孩，本不该得到这辆车的钥匙。
Like, I was just really more than a small town Iowa boy shoulda ever ever they shoulda never gave me the keys to that car.
你懂我的意思吧？
Like, you know what I mean?
是的。
Yeah.
但越是成功，问题就越明显——我越成功，就越确定自己终将沦为流浪汉，这种宿命感随着我飞得越高、离地面越远而变得越沉重，就像橡皮筋在拉扯着我往回拽？
But I was it was the more I got, the problem was the more success I had, the more I was certain, the more the the certainty of gonna be a bum, the the the gravity of it increased the farther away I got, the farther up I got because my mind Rubber band pulling you back?
嗯，没错。
Well, yeah.
因为我的内心仍固执地认为我会摔到地上，但现在我已经在五层楼的高度了。
Because my mind is still holding on to the same you're gonna hit the ground, but now it's like you're five stories up.
所以，摔下来的后果会严重得多。
So that the fall is gonna be much greater.
那会疼得更厉害。
It's gonna hurt much more.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以我必须做点什么，当时我们住在佛罗里达，我就去搜索了死藤水。
So just the utter and so then I had to do something, and we came we were living in Florida, and I went and googled Ayahuasca.
就是这样。
Here we go.
我搜了‘死藤水’和‘奥兰多’，那时候他们正经历各种奇怪的困境，但确实在奥兰多提供死藤水。
Ayahuasca and Orlando, and then I got at that time, they were going through all kinds of weird struggles and and but they were serving Ayahuasca here in Orlando.
那是当时西北地区最大的死藤水教会。
Largest at the time, it was the largest Ayahuasca church in the Northwest.
它由一个男人经营，我觉得他是为了钱才做这个的。
It was run by a guy was he was in it for the I think he was in it for the money.
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我不知道他是否是为了那番教诲而来，但他会告诉你，他的觉醒是在服用药物之后发生的，我认为这一切都是为了钱。
I don't know that he was he was there for the message, but he he'd tell you that he never really his his awakening was after the medicine, and I think it was all financial.
这跟现在说的事无关。
And that's neither here nor there.
我来这里是为了一心与药物相伴，经历了这一切后，我知道自己找到了另一位导师。
I came to cert sit with the medicine and and had this, and I knew then I'd found another teacher.
于是，在那一刻，我离开了托尼。
And so at that point, I left Tony.
我辞掉了工作，放弃了那份收入，放弃了那个职位，放弃了那份声望。
I quit I quit a job where I was the amount of money that I gave up, the the role that I gave up, the the prestige.
我刚从塞尔维亚回来，两周后，我就对大家说：抱歉了。
I I was I just come back from Serbia, and two weeks later, I I said, well, sorry, y'all.
托尼，兄弟，对不起。
Tony, sorry, brother.
这就像，我必须走了。
It's it's like he I gotta go.
我就这么辞职了，然后一两周后新冠疫情爆发，我只好四处奔波找工作，接下来的五年都这样过了。
And I just quit, and then a week or two after that COVID hit to follow around to work, spend the next five years.
是的。
Yes.
这简直就像是时机决定一切那样。
It's it was could not have, like, timing is everything kinda thing.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
那是灵魂的黑暗之夜。
It was dark night of the soul.
我一脱离那个系统，宇宙——也就是那个系统——立刻就让我的思维进入了英雄之旅的模式，我马上就开始经历各种考验和磨难。
I I as soon as I jumped off the system, the universe the system that is the universe, instantly, my mind structured into that that heroic journey and I instantly went into trials and tribulations.
你永远不可能在更糟的时候创业，是的。
Like, you can never start a business at a worst Yeah.
我们原本打算举办线下活动，让人们住进Airbnb，由我来教他们这项技术，但现在他们不这么做了。
Well, we were gonna do live events where the people would come in in Airbnb and I would teach them this technology and they're not doing that.
没人会飞到佛罗里达来了。
Nobody's flying into Florida.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
所以现在你打算怎么办？
So it's like, now what are you gonna do?
于是我陪着这株植物，做了五年他们的集成总监，长时间地研究、陪伴植物、做集成、进行自己的整合，一切追随托尼的路径——如果你了解托尼的任何内容，就会发现它从头到尾都连贯一致，甚至深入到上帝凝视的层面，一切都是假的。
So I sat with this plant for and did their integration director of integration for, like, five years, a long time research kinda sitting with the plant and doing integration and doing my own integration and developing all following Tony, and it all everything Tony if you followed any of Tony's stuff, it it plugs in all the way down to the very mother says it's all pretend all the way down to the gaze of God.
从头到尾，他的体系都是成立的，这就是他拥有如此庞大追随者的原因。
All the way down, his structure works, and that's why he's got the following that he's got.
这就是他拥有最终成果的原因。
And that's why he's got the end
这很有趣，因为我在灵性领域知道，我想这一切都是一回事，当你谈论阴影工作的时候，是的。
That's interesting because I you know, in the the spiritual arena and I guess it's all the same, you know, when you're talking about shadow work Yeah.
这可以是灵魂层面的个人阴影工作。
That it can be personal shadow work at a soul level.
它也可以是职业层面的，对吧？
It can also be professional too, right?
因为你仍然会遇到那些绊脚石，那些障碍，我认为它们几乎总是自己造成的。
Because you're still you still have those stumbling blocks, you still have those roadblocks that are really, I would say, almost always self imposed.
总是如此。
Always.
你之所以处在当前的位置，原因在于，我还没遇到过任何人。
Well, the reason why you are where you are is I've yet to run into anybody.
我相信，你就是上帝在进行一场健身体验，这并不玄乎。
My belief is that you're God having a gym experience, and that's not woo woo.
非常实际。
Very practical.
你就是你现实中的主要创造力量。
You're you you are the primary creative force in your reality.
对。
Correct.
当有人说‘我之所以在这里，是因为那个’，你就已经把你的力量交给了你面前的那件事。
And when somebody says I'm here because of that, well, now what you've done is you've handed off your power to the very thing that you're standing in front of.
你正在用我所说的无意识思维来思考。
You're coming from what I call without focus thinking.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就是我为什么有这种感受的原因。
This is the reason I feel this way.
停一下。
It's like, stop.
你从内在散发出来。
You're emanating from within.
停下来看看，你是不是站在了以前站过的那扇门前面？
Stop and notice that you're standing are you standing at the same door that you stood at before?
就像再次说的，你本可以做一万亿兆件不同的事，但你偏偏选择了这一件。
Like, again, you could be doing 14,000,000,000,000 different things, but you're doing this specific thing.
而我站在这里，遇到这种情况的概率有多大呢？
And what are the odds that I'm standing in front of here having this?
所以，商业是一种灵性的运动。
So business is a spiritual sport.
归根结底，我现在开始和一群人合作，我已经有两百人了，现在我们整个社群正努力达到十四万四千名活跃实践者，这样我们就能潜入水下，同时让所有人翻转开关，看看能否达成一种集体觉醒，让我们从那些不断遗忘的梦境中彻底醒来。
And at the end of the day, now I start to work with I've got 200 I've got a whole community of people now that are we're trying to get to a 144,000 active practitioners so that we can get underneath the water and do a everybody flip the switch all at once and see if we can hit a collective where we all wake up from the dreams that we keep forgetting.
别忘了，就像你说的，我最好的日子也不过是个三岁小孩。
Not to forget, like you said, I'm a three year old on my best day.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我们总是忘记，我们正在经历着。
We keep forgetting that we're having.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
那确实是个有趣的想法，因为我可以告诉你，我来自商业领域。
That's that's an interesting it's an interesting thought because I I can tell you so I come from the business world.
我一直在从事人才招聘和招募工作。
I've been doing talent acquisition, recruiting.
我实际上是与企业领导者一起进行战略思考等方面的合作伙伴。
I I I'm really a partner in strategic thinking and things of that nature with business leaders.
而很多时候，人们认为这两者无法兼得。
And I think a lot of times the thought is you can't have one.
就像所谓的政教分离一样。
There has to be a division of church and state, so to speak.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
你不能把精神层面带入商业。
That you can't bring spirituality into business.
但我今天要告诉你，这是可以的，它只是变成了形式而已。
But I'm here to tell you that you can, then it just becomes syntax.
它几乎变成了一种方言，或一种传达相同内容的不同方式。
It becomes almost a dialect or a different way of communicating the same things.
你必须用企业能够理解的方式传达这个信息。
You have to communicate that message in corporate
实际上，有一种观点认为，这并不是一种意识——我认为，我们迟早会达到这种意识，我称之为整合型领导力。
Well, there's there's a message being that that that it isn't the the the awareness that I think again, this is something that we we will come to this awareness either now or very close to now that I call it integrated leadership.
作为领导者，我必须理解所有事物背后的故事结构，并清楚意识流中的瓶颈在哪里。
I I, as a leader, have to understand the structure of the stories that everything's moving in, and I have to know where the bottlenecks are in the flow of awareness.
因为当你深入观察时，绝大多数公司的情况都极为显著。
Because companies that are only most most companies, when you go in and look at it, the research is just very profound.
大量员工对自己所处的状况并不满意，缺乏投入感。
The amount of people that are not happy with where they are, they're not engaged.
没错。
Correct.
如果我没有投入，那我就是我们所说的‘领工资的员工’。
And if I'm not engaged, I'm only I'm what we call, we're paycheck employees.
领工资的员工只是表面功夫。
Paycheck employees are only paper thin.
那我该如何做到最高效、最有效呢？
Well, how do I make the most efficient, effective?
这可不是玄乎的东西。
This isn't woo woo.
这非常实际。
This is very practical.
我该如何从一个组织中获得最大效益？
How do I get the most out of an organization?
为什么那个运转如闪电般的组织必须是有觉知的。
Why that organization that's moving at the speed of light has to be conscious.
我们必须得是的。
We have to be Yep.
积极地意识到，这意味着
Actively conscious which means that
对正在发生的一切保持觉知。
Present to all things happening.
没错。
That's right.
我有个例子，先给你讲最顶尖的，然后再给你讲最底层的。
I had a guy that I'll give you I'll give you the top example and then I'll give you the bottom example.
顶尖的例子：一位客户卖掉了他的企业，但他最初是从家族企业起步的，他想把企业带到第一个高峰。
The top example, client sold his business, but he started out a family owned business and he wanted to take it to this the first peak.
他说，如果我能达到这个高峰并卖掉它，那就太棒了。
He said if I get to this peak and sell it, it'll be great.
我们达到了第一个高峰后，他突然看到了第二个高峰。
We get to that first peak and now all of a sudden, he sees a second peak.
我想登上那个高峰。
I wanna go to that peak.
我说，好的。
I said, okay.
太好了。
Great.
我们冲向第二个高峰，他又看到了第三个高峰。
We run to the second peak, he sees the third peak.
我说，我想去挑战这第三个高峰，我是说，你懂吧？
Like, I wanna go for this third I'm like, well, you know right?
我说，你知道吗，在那个高峰之后还有另一个高峰。
I'm like, well, you know, there's just another peak after that peak.
到了那时，我告诉他，一切皆是分形。
At that point, I told him everything is fractal.
对吧？
Right?
他說，不。
He's like, no.
我想去那個山峰。
I wanna get to that peak.
我說，好。
I said, okay.
但當我們到達下一個山峰時，我問：你確定那就是頂峰嗎？
But when we get to the next peak I said, you're certain that's the peak?
是的。
Yep.
那就是頂峰。
That's the peak.
我說，等我們到下一個山峰時，我會讓你兌現這句話。
I said, when we get to this next peak, I'm gonna hold you to that.
於是我們到達了下一個山峰，果然，他又看到了另一個山峰。
So we get to the next peak, and sure enough, he sees yet another peak.
山顶。
The summit.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
嗯，他以为那是山顶，但你猜他在那个山峰尽头会发现什么？
Well, there's he thinks it's the summit, but guess what he's gonna find at the end of that peak?
另一个。
Another one.
他会发现又一个山峰。
He's gonna find yet another peak.
嗯，他妻子说，嘿。
Well, his wife is his wife has said, hey.
你之前说我们整个目标是退出。
You've said that we were gonna the whole goal was to exit.
我们有家人。
We've got family.
我们有这个。
We've got this.
我们有那个。
We've got that.
当你真正开始怀疑他是否会做他所说的事情时。
What when it are you gonna really see starts to wonder if he's gonna do what he says he's gonna do.
她的阴影开始被触发。
Her shadow starts to get triggered.
他获得了自己所有的认同，结构和身份是人类状况中最强大的力量。
He gets all of his identification, the structure, identity is the most powerful force in the human condition.
我们会不惜一切代价保持一致，坚持我们用来
We do anything to stay consistent and persistent with the rules and the labels and the roles that we use to
为自己设定的规则、标签和角色。
That you've created for yourself.
是的
Yeah.
因为我必须引导，必须预测，这种需求一直延伸到我自身的起点。
Because I have to steer and I have to predict and that goes all the way down to the beginning of me.
所以它必须保持一致，这样我才能分清什么是真的。
So that has to stay consistent so that I know what's what.
所以他必须变成某种东西，如果我从这里发生的一切中汲取全部的自我，而现在这一切都消失了，会发生什么？
So now he's gotta become something what's gonna happen if I get all my muchness from what's going on here, and now that's all gone.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
那才是真正的它，而不是每一次高峰。
That's what the real it wasn't each summit.
当时他不知道山顶另一边是什么，他知道怎么到达下一个山顶，但他不知道那个无形的山顶——那是他内心必须面对的，而当他面对它时，就变成了一个完全不同的存在。
It was that he didn't know what was on the other side of the summit, and he knew where he he knew how to get to the next summit, but he didn't know the invisible summit which was the one within that was he was he had to face that and when he faced that, completely different being
哦，这是一种崩溃。
Oh, it's a breakdown.
或者说，他非常当下、非常清醒，不再依赖那些策略了。
Of or I mean, very present, very conscious, very he's no longer dealing with the strategies.
第二件事，嗯。
Second thing Mhmm.
我们来说说策略吧。
Let's go with the strategies.
如果我是一个企业主，手下的员工只是纸面上的，或者干脆连员工都没有，我们来谈谈挑战与竞争吧，大多数公司内部结构都会让一个团队与另一个团队对抗，是的。
If I don't have if I'm a business owner that that's just got paper thin employees or maybe even employees, let's talk about challenge versus competition, most companies inside the structure will pit one team against Yep.
是的。
The Yep.
他们搞绩效排名，所有这些做法，都在制造竞争。
They have a stack ranker, all of that stuff, and that builds competition.
但真正形成的是个人主义，如果现在存在阻力，我可能把你视为队友，但我的一部分也把你视为威胁。
But really what that builds is individual if there's a resistance now, I may see you as a teammate, but some part of me also sees you as a threat.
是的。
Yep.
必须如此。
It has to.
数学计算必须成立。
The math has to add up.
对吧？
Right?
招聘时经常发生这种情况，因为他们害怕别人比自己更出色，所以会雇用……
Happens with hiring all the time because they don't they they get fearful that somebody's gonna look better than them, so they'll hire Exactly.
能力较弱的人。
Lesser individuals.
所以他们
So they
那根本不是，那根本不是，那甚至都不是有意识的，那是无意识的。
That that's even that's not even that's not that's not even that's the unconscious.
他们甚至都不承认这种情况正在发生。
They don't even own that that's going on.
他们会告诉你，别人都这么做。
They'll tell you that everybody else does it.
这很明显。
It's obvious.
没人。
Nobody.
没错。
It's Right.
没人愿意承认自己在这么做。
And nobody wants to say they're the one doing it.
对吧？
Right?
不。
No.
不。
No.
当然不是。
Of course not.
因为那样的话
Because then
是的。
yeah.
现在，那个个体，如果进入竞争，最终在他们心中会陷入孤立，因为他们必须为生存而表演。
Now that individual that individual either if we go to competition, they end up at some point becoming in a silo in their mind because they're having to sing for their food.
你失去了创造力。
You lose creativity.
所以在这方面，我们称之为八。
So in this we call it the eight.
我们通常会遵循八个方向。
There's eight directions we kinda work with.
当我们向内探索时，会遇到一种原型。
The inside, when we go in, there's an archetype.
我们称之为天才原型，这同样是只能通过吉姆展现的独特表达。
We call it the genius archetype, which is, again, the unique expression that can only come through Jim.
这真的很细腻。
Well, that's very tender.
它很安静，天才非常难以捕捉，这个想法必须自然浮现。
It's a quiet it's genius is very difficult to to kinda the the idea has to come through.
它必须被给予。
It has to be given.
你必须为它注入生命。
You have to breathe life into it.
就像天才诞生一样。
Like, genius is born.
它不是被创造的。
It's not created.
它不是被构建的。
It's not it's not constructed.
天才进入这个结构。
Genius comes into the structure.
智能，你去看看人工智能是如何发展的。
Intelligence, you go and look at AI the way that AI AI has grown.
它不是被创造的。
It wasn't created.
它是成长起来的。
It was grown.
数据是他们试图让它成长。
The data is they tried to grow it.
他们试图构建人工智能，但当他们试图构建它时，结果却很糟糕。
They tried to they tried to build AI, and when they tried to build AI, it was a dismal part.
惨败。
Dismal flop.
但当他们让它成长时——这是一种完全不同的结构，其中蕴含的智能，他们并不真正知道为什么。
But when they grew it, which is a completely different structure, that intelligence that's in there, they don't know they don't really know why.
那是因为它是成长起来的。
Well, that's because it's grown.
它不是被创造的。
It's not it's not created.
它不是被构建的。
It's not it's not constructed.
它是成长起来的。
It's grown.
对吧？
Right?
嗯，我们是成长的。
Well, we grow.
现在我们有这么一位员工，是的。
Now we have this employee that yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他限制了自己能贡献的想法，因为他担心别人会怎么想，或者万一别人拿走了我的点子怎么办。
And he's only he's pinched off the amount of voice that he can bring in because he's worried about what other people are gonna do or what happens if they get a hold of my idea.
所以这一点已经被限制了。
So that's now pinched off at some level.
对吧？
Right?
如果我只是一个拿工资的员工，我有多投入呢？
And now how committed am I if I'm a paycheck employee?
我对最终结果有多大的投入呢？
How committed am I to the the outcome of the bottom line?
我走在路上，回头一看，我一个客户的一线员工发现了如何在这件事上节省一角钱。
And I'm walking down the road and go back in, one of my clients' front end front end front end worker sees the way to save 10¢ on this one thing.
对于一家大型企业来说，如果反复做这种节省1毛钱的事情，一年下来也是笔不小的数目。
Well, 10¢ on a giant corporation is a lot of money at the end of the year if you do that 10¢ thing over and over.
当然。
Sure.
但如果我只是拿工资的员工，而且没有投入感，是的。
But if I'm a paycheck employee and I'm not engaged yeah.
如果我没有投入感，那这1毛钱的节省就永远不会出现，这一点必须被看到并付诸行动。
If I'm not engaged and I'm not that 10¢ never shows up over here, that has to be seen touching it.
你必须主动且积极参与。
You have to kinda be active and engaged.
那个在公司内部的人，当他看到这一点并转身去参与时，他就为公司节省了成本。
That person that's inside there, when they see that and they go, And they turn around and engage that, now they've saved the company.
我想我们曾经有一个例子，节省了187,000美元。
I think we had one in one instance, it's a $187,000.
这是一个有意识的公司，因为每个人都在观察周围，每个人都积极参与，每个人身上都闪耀着光芒。
That's a conscious company because everybody is looking around, everybody is active, everybody has the light shining from them.
这是一个绝佳的比喻。
Here's a here's a great metaphor.
这是一个绝佳的比喻。
Here's a great metaphor.
把唱针放下去。
Drop the needle.
这是一个绝佳的比喻。
This is a great metaphor.
我妻子一直在努力吸引卢克·布莱恩的演唱会门票。
We my wife was trying to manifest Luke Bryan tickets.
她非常坚定，而我则信奉耕耘法则。
She was certain and and I'm I'm into the law of cultivation.
我不相信吸引力法则，但她却非常信奉它。
I'm not in the law of attraction, but she's really into the law of attraction.
她一定会赢得电台抽奖的卢克·布莱恩演唱会门票，我爱我的妻子，我真的非常爱我的妻子。
She's gonna win these Luke Bryan tickets that are on the the radio, and I'm I love my wife, and I and and and I absolutely love my wife.
所以我要支持她这么做。
And, and so I'm I'm gonna support her in that.
我们看看会发生什么，因为我认为信念才是真正决定一切的。
Let's see what happens because I believe belief is really what dictates it.
所以，我们看看吧，我说。
So let's see, I said.
我们看看吧。
Let's see.
我说，我妻子会赢得这些票。
I said, my wife is gonna win these tickets.
活动结束时，事情结束后，她并没有赢到票，但她坚信一定会发生些什么。
And come to the end of the event, come to the end of the thing, and and and she hadn't won them, but she was certain something was gonna happen.
当天晚些时候，有趣的是，我女儿——我第二个大女儿——给我打了电话，她说：你们周五有什么安排？
And later on that day, interestingly enough, my daughter, my my second oldest daughter calls me, and she says, what are you guys doing Friday?
这场演唱会就在周五。
This is the concert is Friday.
我说，我们大概会像往常一样去超市采购，因为我们有七个孩子。
I said, well, we're probably doing what we typically do, which is to go to the grocery store and get ready because we got seven kids.
当然。
Sure.
是的。
Yeah.
我们孩子很多。
We got a lot kids.
对吧？
Right?
所以是的。
So Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我们有计划，而且所有计划都围绕着照顾家庭生活。
We got plans, and they're all based around taking care of the the the home life.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
然后她说，如果你有机会去听卢克·布莱恩的演唱会，你更想去吗？
And and she said, well, if you had the ability to go to a Luke Bryan concert, would you rather go to that?
我说，你跟瓦莱丽谈过了吗？
I said, have you talked to Valerie?
她说，没有。
And she said, no.
我说，你现在马上给瓦莱丽打电话。
I said, you need to call Valerie right now.
于是她挂了电话。
So she hangs up.
果然，她弄到了这些票。
Sure enough, she's got these tickets.
当时发生这件事的时候，我的脚受伤了，但那个剧院——奥兰多的阿姆韦剧院，我想是叫这个名字——非常大。
Now when that had happened, I had a busted up foot at the time, but there's it's the the theater the concert hall in in Orlando, the Amway Theater, I think is what it is, and it's giant.
果然，我们到了座位，我得靠着一根猫头鹰手杖走路。
And and sure enough, we get to the seat, and I've got a a cat cane to walk with.
吉姆，我真的跟你说，想象一下你站在舞台上，俯瞰整个观众席。
There's this we are literally Jim, I'm telling you, like, if you're on stage imagine you're on stage and you're looking out over the crowd.
好吧。
Okay.
我们坐在最高、最顶层的座位上，简直是最远的位置，正对着舞台；我知道那不是最差的座位，因为最差的是那个巨大的水泥柱子。
It's the highest, the very top the tippy top seat, and it's literally the farthest, like, straight across from if I know it it wasn't the worst spot because the worst I was there was this giant cement pillar
哦，
Oh,
是的。
yeah.
那根柱子就在你旁边。
That was right next to you.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yes.
那是最差的视角。
That was the worst view.
那里一个人都没有。
There was nobody there.
那个柱子是视野最差的位置。
The pillar was the worst view.
我们就紧挨着那个位置。
We were right next to that.
明白吗？
Okay?
因为我一直对我妻子说，你需要许愿许得更好些。
Because I kept telling my wife, you need to manifest better.
我当时一直在跟她说对。
Like, I was giving her yeah.
因为你可以往那边看，看到那些尿渍，幸好我没喝酒，不然的话，喝多了真怕自己会直接倒下去。
Because it was you could look over and you could see these pee like, it felt it's a good thing I didn't drink because, man, if you drank too much, it felt like you could just fall right over.
你知道的吧？
You know?
吓坏了。
Terrified.
所以我们当时在玩。
So we're playing.
夜深了，灯光暗下来，卢克搬出一架钢琴，开始唱那首《喝一杯啤酒》。
It's the end of the night and it's the end of the night and the lights go down and Luke pulls out this piano and he starts to sing that song, Drink a Beer.
是的。
Yep.
我知道这首歌。
And I know that song.
听过了
Heard it
好吧。
well.
是的。
Yep.
对。
Yeah.
而且我在看着我妻子，因为这次我又是在那里看我妻子看演唱会。
And and I'm watching my wife because my wife again, she's we're I'm there to watch my wife watch the concert.
我喜欢，他太棒了，音乐太好了。
I love he's great he's a great performer, great music.
但对我来说，真正有趣的是看她看演出时眼睛发亮的样子，对。
But really, for me, the game is watching how she lights up by watching this yeah.
音乐带来的喜悦，它如何触动她。
The joy of the music, the way it moves in her.
这首歌响起时，她的眼泪开始流下来，灯光很低，你根本看不清，我连自己鼻子前面都看不清。
And this song comes online and she starts tears start coming down her eyes and the lights are down low and and you can't see any I can't see this far in front of my nose.
慢慢地，人们开始拿出手机，你知道的，这些无聊的手机灯光。
And slowly, what starts to happen is the people take their phones and they, you know, these lame ass Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你见过的。
You've you've seen it.
对吧？
Right?
以前是打火机。
They used to be the lighters.
现在是手机。
Now it's the phones.
然后它们全都亮了起来。
And they all start to come on.
当它们开始亮起时，我开始注视着，突然间，就像在观看夜空一样。
And as they start to come on, I start to watch as these this it's all of a sudden, it's like watching the night sky.
是的。
Yeah.
那光芒。
The glow.
亮起来的样子。
The lighting up.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yes.
在某个时刻，吉姆，某个时刻，整个房间都亮了起来。
And at some point, Jim, at some point, the room lights up.
它突然发生了一次量子跃迁。
It goes to this there's this quantum jump.
我们一下子就从这里到了那里。
There's this we went from here to here.
我跟你说，吉姆，甚至不再需要那盏灯来照亮了。
And I'm telling you, Jim, you can there's no longer a net need for the light even to light up.
你能看到前排的人在喝啤酒之类的情景。
You can see the guy in the front row drinking a beer kinda thing.
你能看清整个房间，而我从原本最差的座位，变成了我能拥有的最佳座位。
You can see you can see the entire room, and I have gone from having the literal worst seat in the house to the very best possible seat that I could have.
能看到上帝。
Can see God.
我看到有什么东西进入了那个房间，我们不再需要那盏灯来看清发生了什么。
And I saw that something entered into that room, and we no longer needed that one light to see what was going on.
我们能看清整个空间，因为每个人都点亮了自己的光。
We could see the entire space because everybody lit their own light.
这正是我们努力追求的目标。
That is where we're trying to get to.
我们想要达到的那种状态是：当吉姆的天赋展现出来，当你独特的自我终于能唱出自己的歌时，当你从恐惧中解放出来，你的存在会自然而然地解放他人。
We're trying to get to that space where when Jim's genius comes out, when your unique expression of you is finally able to sing its song, it when as you are liberated from your fears, your presence automatically liberates others.
它邀请我唱出自己的歌。
It invites me to sing my song.
通过你的歌和我的歌，会出现第三样东西，第三首歌，一种不可否认的第三层次的天赋由此显现。
And through your song and my song, there's this third thing, this third song, there's this third level of genius that presents itself that is undeniable.
我们已经在地毯上看到过这种现象，也在Zoom通话中看到过，还有这本书，以及我从读者那里收到的关于这本书如何影响人们的反馈。
And we've been seeing this on the carpet, and we've been seeing it on Zoom calls, the book, the information that I'm getting back from how the book is impacting people.
是时候从我们不断遗忘的梦境中醒来了。
It's time to wake up from the dreams that we keep forgetting were happening.
我相信，从黑暗到光明的转变，需要144,000名积极的实践者共同坚守这一信念：如果我就是上帝，正在经历一次人类的体验，会怎样？
I believe that shift from darkness to light, it's a 144,000 active practitioners all holding on to this one spot and going, what if I was God having a human experience?
正是我的挣扎，试图唤醒我。
And it was my struggle that was trying to wake me up.
不要只是说‘我明白了’，而是要停下来，深入地与之搏斗，因为这远不止是一句标语——我相信你的挣扎是神圣的。我过去常说‘痛苦是神圣的’，但就在本周早些时候，一位实践者告诉我，‘痛苦’这个词让她陷入了执念。
And to not say I get it, but to stop and wrestle with that, like, longer than just a beat because it's more than a bumper sticker, I believe your struggle is I used to say suffering is sacred, but I had a a practitioner just earlier in the week goes suffering the word suffering, she she got hooked on that.
‘挣扎’才是那个词——你的挣扎是神圣的。
Struggle was the word that it's like your struggle is sacred.
如果我能停下来，在陷入挣扎时深吸一口气，意识到自己正身处其中。
If I can stop and see when I'm in the struggle and take a breath, recognize that I'm in it.
我称之为RAIN过程。
It's I call it the RAIN process.
就像去看看你的一天。
It's like go look at your day.
正是那个承载着你的故事——你的挣扎。
It's it's the it's the story that carries you, the struggle.
可能是‘我当不好一个父亲’。
It could be I'm not gonna be a good dad.
可能是‘我付不起这笔钱’。
It could be I'm not gonna be able to afford this.
可能是我不喜欢这个。
It could be I don't like this.
我不喜欢那个。
I don't like that.
那么，这个想法到底是什么？
Like, what is the idea?
识别出哪里是挣扎，哪里是痛苦，哪里是同一个故事。
Recognize where it's struggle, where it's suffering, where it's the same story.
注意到你正身处其中。
Notice you're in it.
我意识到了。
I recognize it.
然后，A代表允许和接纳。
Then the a is allow and accept.
深呼吸。
Take a breath.
没关系。
It's okay.
你在这里。
You're here.
你正在体验人性，你把这种人性表达了出来，无论它是什么，你把它投射到了屏幕上，而你认为这就是你即将死去的地方。
You're humaning, and you've translated your humanness for whatever it is, and you're projecting it onto the screen, and you this is where you think you're gonna die.
你在这里没关系。
It's okay that you're here.
深呼吸。
Take a breath.
现在我们来探究。
Now we investigate.
我所说的这是一个我们称之为闭合回路的过程。
I and that's a that's a it's a process we call closing the circuit.
但本质上，探究就是：你是在哪里接受了这个想法，认为自己 somehow 不够好？
But just basically investigation is where did you pick this idea that somehow you're not?
无论翻译成什么，因为痛苦并不存在于数据中。
Whatever the translation is because suffering doesn't sit in the data.
它存在于故事里。
It sits in the story.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
那我需要什么呢？
And then what do I need?
你内心需要什么，才能成为上帝独特的表达，让你体内承载上帝的恩典？
What is the part of you need so that it can be the unique expression of God so that you can carry the grace of God in you?
就像，嗯，这太多了。
It's like, well, I that's a lot.
确实很多，我觉得我们需要认真地与之搏斗。
It is a lot, and I think we need to wrestle with that.
我是说，真正地去挣扎。
Like, seriously wrestle.
不是你说的那样吗？
Not a you know?
我们与之斗争的地方，是告诉我那个试图偷走你喜悦的故事。
And where we wrestle with it is tell me the story that attempts to steal your joy.
告诉我问题出在哪里，因为当你能看清自己在欺骗自己时，我们阴影工作的第一条规则就是：你首先欺骗的是自己。
Tell me where because when you can see where you're lying to yourself, our first rule of shadow work is that you lie to yourself first.
嗯。
Mhmm.
当我看清自己如何欺骗自己时，我会想：如果是我自己在制造这些问题，那我其实比自己想象的要强大得多。
Where I can see how I'm lying to myself, I'm going, if I'm lying to myself, if I'm the one causing that, I'm much bigger than what I think I am.
如果我比自己想象的要强大得多，那么我以为会杀死我的东西，其实什么都不是。
And if I'm much bigger than what I think I am, then this thing that I think is gonna kill me is nothing.
什么都不是。
Nothing.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
没错。
Exactly.
要么全有，要么全无。
It's either everything or nothing.
二选一。
One of the two.
你知道吗，这里是关键。
You know, here's the thing.
我们其实可以就这个话题聊上好几天。
We could probably keep going on this for days.
但很遗憾，我在这个环节里只剩下最后一个问题可以问你了。
But unfortunately, I'm I'm down to my last question I can ask you in this this segment.
你的痛苦就是你的天赋。
Your pain is your genius.
我们说的差不多就是这个意思吗？
Is that kind of what we're talking about?
你所说的痛苦，就是指这个吗？
Is that where you're you're you're talking about the suffering?
佛陀说人生就是痛苦，是这个意思吗？
Is it Buddha talks about life is is suffering?
是的。
Yeah.
但你的痛苦就是你的天赋。
But your pain is your genius.
对。
Yeah.
戈登·格洛布称它们为揭示时刻。
The the the the Gordon Globe has called them disclosure moments.
我们有这些公开的秘密。
We have these open secrets.
这正是我自身的痛苦所在。
It's it's in the suffering of me.
所以在核心的七层中，是英雄之旅。
So in the seven layers at the core of it is the hero's journey.
我有一部分认为，我们曾经接触过一个77岁的老人，他只是一个愤怒、苦涩的老头。
There's a part of me that not given we once processed a guy who's 77 years old that just was angry, bitter old man.
我们深入到核心，发现他的行为源于他六岁时的经历：他当时打算讲述自己的人生故事。
And we got down to the core of it, and what where it was operating from was he had when he was six years old, his his he was gonna tell his life story.
他打算写下自己的人生故事，于是去告诉了父母。
He was gonna write his life story, and he went to his mom and dad.
他们正在参加某个活动，他说：‘有人正在谈论他们的故事。’
They were at some kind of a function, and he said, I'm gonna tell somebody was talking about their life story.
他说：‘我要写下我的人生故事。’
He said, I'm gonna write my life story.
妈妈说：‘亲爱的，你才六岁。’
And mom said, oh, sweetie, you're six years old.
你还没有故事呢。
You don't have a story yet.
以最充满爱的方式。
The most loving way possible.
是的。
Yeah.
但在他的心里，他接收到的信息是：没人想听你说什么。
But in his mind, what he took in there was nobody wants to hear what you have to say.
现在快进一下。
Now fast forward.
他是个七岁的男人，那个时刻的回响一直伴随着他。
He's a seven year old man, and this entire that that moment, it echoed.
贯穿他的一生，每当有人打断他，他都会立刻回到那种感觉——那个六岁小男孩的自我浮现出来，影响了他所有表达和定位的能力。因此，他从不让自己置身于可能被倾听的场合，因为他害怕那个小男孩深信：没人想听他的故事。
Through his whole life, anytime somebody would cut him off, he would instantly go to that sick like, talked about the three year old that six year old little boy would come online and the structure of his ability to orient, And so then he never put himself in a situation to where his story would be relevant for fear that that little boy held on to that somehow nobody wanted to hear it.
这个如此美好的人，如今被这份源自过去的苦涩紧紧包裹着。
And this beautiful man is now absolutely beautiful soul is wrapped up in this bitterness that comes from this place that he's holding on to back there.
当你能看见它，当你真正深入下去，看到那个部分在你内心如何存在时，你会明白：这一切，都是我。
And when you can see that, when you truly go down and see where that part of you is existing, it's like all of that is me.
所有这些，都是你。
All of that is you.
然后我又想起，当我三岁的时候，我的继母曾对我进行身体虐待。
And then you find again, when I was three years old, my stepmother, she physically abused me.
她打我。
She she she she beat me.
她让我挨饿。
She starved me.
然后她白天把我关在地下室，到了晚上才把我放出来，说：如果你敢说出去，我就杀了你和你妹妹。
She and then she'd stick me in the basement during the day, and and then she'd bring me out at the end of the and say, if you say anything, I'll kill you and your sister both.
这种情况持续了足够长的时间，让我妈妈终于察觉到了发生了什么。
Like, this went on for long enough for my mom to figure out what's going on.
我内心有一部分感觉被困住了，我总在等待，总担心你会某一天把我重新关回那个地下室，让我再次被抛弃、被囚禁在那里。
There's this part of me that feels trapped, and, like, I'm always waiting for you to some part of me, deep down in me, is always waiting to be stuck back in that basement and be abandoned and be trapped down there.
所以他的一切行为都源于此。
And so he orients from there.
但现在因为我已经深入其中，进入了我内心的深处，找到了问题发生的根源并正在疗愈它，所以我现在可以进入被称为吉姆的地下室。
But now because I've gone down in there, I've gone into the interior of my meeting and I've found where that's happening and I'm tending to that, I can now go into the basement called Jim.
对。
Right.
然后我会说：嘿，伙计。
And I go, hey, buddy.
跟我来。
Come with me.
我想给你看些东西。
I wanna show you something.
我可以下去那里。
I I I can go down there.
为什么？
And why?
因为我住在那儿。
Because I I live down there.
我所有的成瘾都源于
I spent I my addiction was all based
打开开关，让我们来澄清一下这件事。
on switch on and we'll we'll shed some light on this.
对。
Right.
当你描述这些的时候，我想到一件事：如果有人从未接受过治疗，比如看心理医生、心理咨询师，不管你怎么称呼它，你可能正在和一个从未寻求过帮助的人交谈——可能是亲人，也可能是其他人，对吧？
That so while you were describing that, something came to mind and so if nobody if there's somebody out there who has never gone to therapy or something like that or seen a therapist, psychologist, whatever you you want to call it, the easy thing for that person that you might be having a discussion with, could be a loved one, could be whoever who's not sought out some sort of help, right?
他们会说：‘你还要把童年创伤当成借口多久？’
They'll say, how long are you going to blame your childhood trauma on something?
别再纠结了，赶紧走出来。
You know, get the hell out of it.
这完全是胡说八道。
That's bullshit.
赶紧走出来。
Get out of it.
你谈的是童年时期，尤其是青春期早期，三岁到九岁之间，你的信念体系正在形成。
And you're talking about a time frame in your childhood, especially early adolescence, three years olds to to nine years old, you your belief system is being solidified.
所以这怎么可能不呢？
So how could it not?
如果它被搞砸了，除非你付出努力，否则怎么可能不一直跟着你？
If it's screwed up, how can that not follow you unless you do the work?
把它称为心理卫生。
Call it mental hygiene.
这是一种必需品。
It's it's it's a requirement.
比如，我们有一个叫做心理净化的流程，是一个为期四周的体验式过程，我们会深入其中，清理掉那层镜片，因为我们一直生活在污浊之中。
Like, we do a thing called the mental cleanse, which is a four week experiential process where we go in and we clean that lens out because that that and we're we're just walking around in sludge.
我们所生活的所有意义，这些孩子所生活的意义，他们都已解离。
All the meaning that we're living in, these kids that are living in this meaning, they've disassociated.
他们为什么会解离？
Why are they disassociated?
在这个世界上，你愿意在那种层面上被唤醒吗？
Would you wanna be turned on at that level in this world?
他们已经解离了。
They've disassociated.
谢谢你，我的，让我保持安全。
Thank thank them thank you, mine, for keeping me safe.
我相信我们在这里看到的是一种我们必须深入的结构。
And I believe what we're seeing here is a structure where we've gotta go in.
我们被迫深入其中，如果这个支撑我的观念足够强大，我就不能再把吉姆看作一个会把我锁在地下室的威胁了，因为吉姆，你和我无法在让这项工作得以展开的灵魂层面上建立连接。
We're being forced to go in, and I I'm not gonna be able to keep projecting that you're gonna if I if this if this idea that carries me is big enough, I have to stop looking at Jim as though he's a he's a threat gonna lock me in the basement because, Jim, you and I won't be able to connect on the very soul level that needs for this work to breathe.
是的。
Yep.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
这就像在逼我放手。
It's like it's forcing me to let go.
没有其他办法，母亲教导我们，唯一的出路就是穿越，而唯一的穿越方式就是深入其中。
There's no other the mother teaches the only way out is through, and the only way through is in.
我必须接受，我们这个时代文盲的定义，不是那些不会读写的人。
I have to be willing that the illiterate of illiterate of our age are not the people that can't read and write.
当今时代的文盲，将是那些无法学习、放下学习、再重新学习的人，因为我们必须不断深化。
The the illiterate of today's age will the p be the people that can't learn, then unlearn, and then relearn again because we've gotta deepen.
我们必须从灵魂的角度来面对它。
We have to come at it from a soul perspective.
我在爱荷华州的一个家里赢了一些钱。
We won I won some money at a a well, home in Iowa.
因为支票的书写方式有些问题，我的银行把它冻结了。
And because the check was written in such a way, it it was just a bit off, my my bank blocked it.
我花了三天时间打电话给四五个人，他们总是让我等待。
And I spent three days on the phone with four or five people try they would they would put me on hold.
他们回电时却都很生气。
They would come back, and they would be all angry.
我就说，各位。
I'm like, look, people.
这就是硬道理。
This is the hard rock.
他们正在印这些东西。
They're printing these things.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
我不明白这里的问题出在哪。
I don't understand what the problem is here.
我们根本联系不上任何人。
Like, we can't get ahold of anybody.
我终于联系上了一个欺诈专家主管。
I finally got to a it was a it was a it was a fraud specialist supervisor.
不是欺诈专家本人。
It wasn't the fraud specialist.
是欺诈专家主管。
Was a fraud specialist supervisor.
她叫佩妮。
Her name was Penny.
佩妮，如果你在听，我超爱你。
Penny, if you're out there listening, I love you to death.
她说，等一下。
And she said, hold on a minute.
她回来了。
She came back.
她说，我这边一直占线。
She said, I just get a busy signal.
我说，我来告诉你。
I said, I will tell you.
我现在就可以从我的电话拨这个号码，她说，等一下。
I can dial the number right now from my she said, hang on.
她又回来了。
She came back again.
她说，我想明白了。
She said, I figured it out.
给我一分钟。
Give me a minute.
然后她又回来了。
And then she came back in.
她说，问题就在这里。
She said, here was the problem.
她说，你之前联系的每个人，他们所做的就是打电话，他们是在按流程办事。
She said, everybody that you talked to before, what they were doing is they were calling they were doing they were following protocol.
去网上找一个可靠的途径来验证这张支票的真实性，打电话给他们，确认无误后再放款。
Go up on the Internet, find a find a find a a reputable way to validate that this check was real, call them, verify that it's real, release the funds.
他们会打电话，但总是听到忙音。
They would call, and they would get a busy signal.
原因在于银行不允许他们从内部线路拨打到赌场。
And the reason why was because the bank would not let them call into a casino from an inside line.
他们不知道这一点。
They didn't know that.
他们不知道这一点。
They didn't know that.
因此他们不断打电话，却碰上了这道障碍，而佩妮说他们需要深入三层。
And so they were calling and they were hitting that wall, and Penny said they need to drink three layers.
他们只被训练成思考两层深度。
They're only trained to think two layers deep.
我们需要他们再深入一层。
We need them to go a third layer.
我在这里告诉你，吉姆，现在皮尼之前的所有人，都可以被人工智能取代了。
And I'm here to tell you, Jim, every single person before Penny is replaceable now by AI.
我们有那个人。
We've got that guy.
我们现在被迫要清醒并保持专注，因为如果我们不这样做，已经有人——普通人的大脑每分钟有100个神经突触活动。
We're being forced now to wake up and be present because if we're not, there's already somebody somebody the the average mind synapses is a 100 it's a 100 synapses a minute.
通过人工智能和计算机，我们讨论的是每分钟一万次神经突触活动。
The through through AI and computers, we're talking 10,000 synapses a minute.
我们说的是，系统思考的速度比我们快一千倍。
We're talking a thousand times faster a system can think over us.
到2020年，在未来八年内，人工智能将比地球上所有人类加起来都更聪明。
And by the year '20, within the next eight years, AI is gonna be smarter than every human on the planet combined.
我们有那个人。
We got that guy.
唯一的出路就是直面它。
The only way out is through.
唯一的出路就是深入其中，我们必须从那些我们不断遗忘的梦境中醒来。
The only way through is in we have to wake up from the dreams that we keep forget.
我们拥有的唯一额外资源就是深入其中，清理掉这些杂念，以便我能真正与你同在，超越表面的层次。
That's the only additional resource we have is to go in and clean that out so that I can be present with you and be more than just the surface of it.
那就是
That's
那真是个很有趣的故事，讲的是那件事是怎么发生的。
that's a a real interesting story there, how that worked.
这太疯狂了。
And it's it's crazy.
你知道吗，我刚才一直在想这件事。
You know, I was thinking about it.
我们转到音乐话题的时机本该是卢克·布莱恩。
The timing for us to segue into music would have been that Luke Bryan.
那会再合适不过了。
That would have been perfect.
我完全搞砸了。
Totally screwed that up.
但当时
But was
是个很棒的故事。
a great story.
我知道我必须在这里讲出来。
I knew I had to tell it here.
我知道我必须在这里讲出来。
I knew I had to tell it here.
当然。
Absolutely.
但关键是，你知道，我本来还想说更多。
But here's the thing, you know, I wanted there's so much more.
我想聊聊那家阿亚乌斯卡教堂。
I wanted to talk about that Ayahuasca church.
我想聊聊所有那些其他的事情。
I wanted to talk about all those other things.
所以也许我们可以让你再来一次，因为我真的非常喜欢这次对话。
So maybe what we'll do is we'll have you come on again because I've really enjoyed this.
如果你愿意的话，过一段时间，我们再做一次。
If you're up for it, maybe, you know, a little while from now, we'll we'll do that.
但现在，如果你不介意的话，我们来聊聊音乐方面的问题。
But right now, if you're okay with it, we'll get into the musical questions.
你没问题吧？
You cool
没问题？
with that?
你给我出了这些问题。
You gave me those questions.
我得告诉你，吉姆，你让我花了两个半小时回溯过去。
I have to tell you, Jim, you sent me on a two and a half hour going back in time.
我不得不回去翻看了一下。
I had to go back and look.
那时候我在哪里？
Where was I in this time period?
我记得那首歌，然后我坐在那个泡泡空间里，多么美好啊，因为那就是生命的丰富性所在。
And what was oh, I remember that song, and then I was sitting in the space in the bubble, the beautiful because that's the muchness of life right there.
它就这样流动着，你生活的整体质量，就是你所经历的所有情绪的总和，而我们利用音乐来激活这些情绪。
It flows that, like, the emotion your life is the sum quality of the emotions that you experience and and we leverage music to to activate those emotions.
所以你让我进行了一次彻底的
So you had me on going on a full fledged
我太喜欢了。
I love that.
简直像一场猎巫行动。
Almost like a witch hunt.
这太美妙了。
It was beautiful.
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