第103期嘉宾：肖恩·威尔斯！补剂领域最值得信赖的品牌！揭秘补剂世界的惊人洞见！还有关于肽类、SARMs、骗局等更多讨论！

所以是在2010到2011年期间，促暖剂真正开始流行起来。

So it was twenty twenty ten, eleven was when the pro warm was really, really became popularized.

就像你所说的，超级多尔是一个很大的热门产品。

And like you said, Superdoll was a big one.

表雄酮非常流行。

Epistane was very popular.

哈利多尔也非常流行。

Halidrol was very popular.

有很多很多种，有些是甲基化的，有些是非甲基化的。

There were many, many, many, and some were methylated, some nonmethylated.

这些，就像你所说的，是设计型类固醇，但通常比直接使用阿诺万或温斯特罗尔毒性更大。

And these, like you said, designer steroids, but, you know, often more toxic than just taking straight anovar or windstraw.

百分之百。

A 100%.

我的意思是，超级脱瘾让我感觉比使用过的任何其他类固醇都更糟糕，除了特伦特。

I mean, superdrawal made me feel the worst of any steroid I ever used aside from Trent.

我可以告诉你，那是我人生中最糟糕的经历，我在三到四周内胖了二十多磅，但感觉糟透了。

I could tell you that was the worst experience of my life where I I gained 20 some odd pounds in three to four weeks, but I felt horrible.

当我告诉你我感觉糟透了，我的意思是，我恨这个世界。

And when I tell you I felt horrible, I mean, I hated the world.

我不想起床，我的肝功能指标高得离谱。

I mean, not wanting to get out of bed, my liver values through the roof.

这些物质是怎么变成合法的？

How how did these get to become legal?

这些物质到底为什么会因为它们的所作所为而被长期忽视？

Like, how did how were these ever legitimately overlooked with what they were doing?

它们到底是什么时候首次出现的？

And when did they really first come out?

最早是从EAS开始的，我之前说过，他们推动了肌酸的发展，他们推出了磷酸原（Phosphagen），也就是他们的肌酸磷酸原HP，是肌酸加碳水化合物的组合。

It started it started with EAS, who I said was, like, behind creatine, and they had phosphagen, which is their creatine phosphagen HP, which was creatine plus carbs.

磷酸原（Phosphogain）是肌酸加蛋白质，但它们变得非常流行。

Phosphogain was creatine and protein, but they became huge.

最终，雅培收购了他们，然后实际上关闭了公司。

And eventually, Abbott bought them out and then actually shut them down.

但EAS曾经一度非常庞大，是运动营养领域的领军者，所有人都在追随。

But EAS was massive at one point, really the ones leading the charge in sports nutrition and everyone was following.

第一个产品叫雄烯二酮。

The first one was a product called androstendione.

那就是第一个东西。

And that was the first thing.

它有点像是DHEA的前体。

And it was a kind of like post cursor to DHEA.

温和。

Mild.

非常温和。

Very mild.

但他们发现它天然存在于苏格兰松中。

But they found that it occurred naturally in scotch pine.

因此，他们发现了一种天然存在的来源，根据《膳食补充剂健康教育法》（DSHEA），只要某种物质是天然存在的，或是食物供应中天然物质的代谢物，就有可能被归类为膳食补充剂。

And so they found a naturally occurring source, and with that you can have DSHEA, the Dietary Supplement Health Education Act, which means if it is naturally occurring or a metabolite of something naturally occurring in the quote unquote food supply, it can be a dietary supplement potentially.

这导致了一种前体激素进入市场，即雄烯二酮作为睾酮的前体，人们将其与DHEA和锯棕榈等物质叠加使用，当时只看到了微弱的效果。

So that led to a pro hormone, which was a this androstendion is a precursor to testosterone being on the market and people were stacking it with DHEA and saw palmetto and you know whatever these things at the time, seeing very minor effects.

但这促使其他人介入，声称：‘那我们就直接推出类固醇吧。’

But that led to basically other people coming in and saying, well, we'll just release steroids.

当时这种情况完全被忽视且监管不足。

And it was completely overlooked and under regulated at the time.

情况变得如此极端，以至于市场上竟然出现了那些绝对不该出现的甲基化类固醇——它们在任何植物或食物供应中都不天然存在，却导致了人员死亡。

And it got so extreme to the point that you're talking about where these methylated steroids that absolutely shouldn't have been on the market, that do not occur naturally in any plants or anything in the food supply were on the market and literally killing people.

在某些情况下，比如你提到的Superdraw和Feroplex这类甲基化类固醇，人们叠加使用，导致了各种肝脏损伤。

In some cases, like what you're talking about with Superdraw and Feroplex and these methylated steroids that people are stacking, getting all kinds of liver damage.

人们以为这些是补充剂，所以是安全的。

And people were thinking that they are safe because they're supplements.

但事实显然并非如此，而至少对于类固醇，我们已有三四十年甚至更久的数据，记录了健美运动员如何使用它们、如何安全使用、如何做体检，并在医生和教练的指导下使用。

And that clearly wasn't the case, and at least with steroids we have thirty, forty, fifty years of data of bodybuilders using them, knowing how to use them safely, getting labs and working with a doctor potentially and a coach.

当时只有孩子去GNC或维生素店购买类固醇，认为越多越好，却从不进行适当的周期后治疗，也不了解自己的体检指标。

You had just kids going into GNC and vitamin shop just buying steroids and saying more is better and not doing a proper post cycle therapy or knowing what their labs are, any of that kind of stuff.

而且他们还把这些药与麻黄碱等物质混合使用，确实变得非常危险。

And certainly stacking it with things like ephedrine and it became very dangerous for sure.

我记得当时自己在测试这些产品，还给一些公司写信，问他们：你们的使用方案是什么？怎么停用这些药？

I remember I was testing this out at the time and I was writing some of the companies and I was saying, Well, what's your protocol and how do you come off of these?

你知道有多少人会说：‘只要服用我们的周期后补充剂就行了’，或者根本不需要任何周期后治疗。

You know how many people were saying, Oh, just take our post cycle supplement or you just don't even need one.

你和我都清楚，使用这些物质时，绝对需要进行周期后治疗，否则你的睾酮生成会遭到破坏。

And you and I both know taking these, you absolutely need a post cycle therapy or you're going to wreck your testosterone production.

我不知道有多少青少年或二十多岁的人，因为没有进行周期后治疗，也从不做血液检查，就直接开始使用睾酮替代疗法，结果严重损伤肝脏、血压和胆固醇，各项指标全面飙升。

I don't know how many people that were teenagers or in their twenties that probably put themselves on TRT using these not running a post cycle and never doing blood work, thrashing their liver, thrashing their blood pressure, cholesterol, everything through the roof.

我意思是，当时Havoc这款产品特别流行。

I mean, havoc was one that was super popular.

那是Epistane的一种形式，但使用Superdraw这类产品却不采取适当的保护措施和规范流程，简直就像在使用安德罗雄酮。

That was an Epistane form, but running something like Superdraw and not taking proper protection and protocols, that's just like running anadrawal.

我的意思是，DMZ是另一个产品。

I mean, and DMZ was another one.

所以，接下来会发生什么。

So here, here's what happens.

2011年、2012年，我与几家公司在合作。

2011, 2012, I was working with several companies.

他们生产前体激素，还让我上YouTube拍视频，他们希望我开始讨论SARMs和多肽。

They were producing pro hormones, and they got me on YouTube and got me to do videos, and one of the things they wanted me to start discussing was SARMS and peptides.

我说，我对这些东西一无所知。

And I said, I don't know shit about any of these things.

我得去学习和研究它们，因为这些产品只能通过地下科研市场获得。

I gotta learn them and study them because the only way to get these is on the research market underground.

所以当时我成了大家口中的SARMs专家，因为多肽还不流行。

So I became known as the SARMS guy at the time because peptides were not popular.

健美运动员们，这些玩意儿其实没什么用。

Bodybuilders, they were pretty useless.

我的意思是，当时有七八种可选。

I mean, there was like seven, eight to pick from.

GHRPs，黑色素皮质素。

GHRPs, melanatan.

当时几乎没什么东西，而且它们根本不会增加肌肉体积或任何效果。

There really was next to nothing, and they weren't producing size or anything.

所以SARMs显然引起了兴趣，你知道的，它们能做的事情。

So SARMS obviously became of interest, as you know, with what they can do.

我最早用的是MK-2866和S-4，因为当时只有那么几种。

And and the first things I ran, because there was only a few at the time, was MK two eight six and s four.

就这些了。

And that was really it.

当我了解到MK-677时，他们就开始推出更多产品了。

MK six seven seven when I learned about them, then they started coming out with more.

那后来发生了什么？

Well, then what happened?

促激素被禁了，但一雄酮、二雄酮这些仍然合法。

Pro hormones get banned, and then one andro, two andro, those are still legal.

他们在寻找漏洞，但结果如何呢？

They're looking for loopholes, but what happens?

所有人都囤积了大量促激素粉末，于是转而发现SARMs并开始销售这些物质和补充剂。

All these people get stuck with all of their pro hormone powders, and they find SARMS and start selling those and supplements.

我很快发现，有人把促激素粉末混进SARMs里一起卖，导致使用者出现了本不该由SARMs引起的副作用。

Now, one of the things that I found rather quickly was that people were putting their pro hormone powders in there and selling them with SARMS, and people were getting side effects they shouldn't get with SARMS.

然后各种问题叠加，大量文章出来指责这些物质有多危险，但实际上它们并没有那么危险。

And then all of this stuff compounds and all of these articles come out about how dangerous they are when in reality they weren't.

它们确实有风险，但没到那种程度。

They are, but not to the extent.

那后来发生了什么？

What happened there?

我的意思是，这一切怎么突然就转变了？

I mean, how did this shift so quickly?

你还记得最早开始这么做的是哪些公司吗？

And do you remember who the first, like, companies were that started doing this?

当时有很多公司靠销售被禁或下架的促激素赚了不少钱，而大公司则因诉讼、负面报道、FDA压力等原因退出了市场。

Well, there was a lot of companies that were making a fair amount of money being, like, hardcore and underground by selling pro hormones as they were getting banned or pulled off the market, the bigger companies removed themselves from the market, either because of lawsuit, bad press, FDA pressure, etcetera.

但小公司知道这里仍有利润可图。

But the smaller companies knew there was still money to be made.

随着这一空白被SARMs（选择性雄激素受体调节剂）填补，我要说，SARMs的初衷是比这些促激素更安全，同时具备类固醇的效果。

And with that vacuum filled in SARMS, the selective androgen receptor modulators, I will say that the SARMS, while potentially the idea was that they were safer than these pro hormones, but had the effects of steroids.

其承诺是：拥有类固醇的效果，却没有副作用。

The promise was the effects of steroids without the side effects.

问题是，下丘脑-垂体-性腺轴仍然受到抑制，因为这些剂量远高于正常水平，而正是在这些高剂量下才产生了显著效果。

The problem is the HPTA, this hypophthalamic pituitary axis, that you were still getting suppression because these doses were much higher than they were supposed to be because that's where you were seeing the significant effects.

所以像YK11、RAD140，还有大量S23之类的物质，实际上就跟吃类固醇没什么区别。

So these YK11 and RAD140 and there's a slew of S23s like taking a steroid.

真厉害。

Impressive.

没错，市面上有很多这类物质，它们的效果非常强，但副作用也可能同样强烈，你仍然需要进行周期后治疗等一系列措施。

Exactly, there's a number of them that are out there and they are very potent in their effects, but they're potentially very potent in their side effects and you still need to run post cycle therapy and all these things.

而且它们都是口服的，在某些情况下可能对肝脏仍有较大负担。

And they are orals, and in some cases are potentially still hard on the liver.

所以我不确定它们现在是否真的比类固醇时代更安全。

So I don't know that they're really at this point any safer than the pro hormone era.

我逐渐意识到，这部分是它们演化的结果，因为刚开始时它们的毒性较轻，但随着不断改进，比如YK11实际上加入了甲基化结构，因此对肝脏非常非常有毒。

I have come to the realization that I and part of this is the evolution of them because when it started, they were lighter, and the more that they made, the YK11 has actually got methylation in it, for example, so it's very, very toxic to the liver.

但后来我们开始看到更多血液检测结果，发现MK-2866确实严重损伤了肝脏，还出现了雌激素活性。

But then we started to see more blood panels where, oh wow, MK two thousand eight sixty six has really hurt the liver and we see some estrogen activity.

它引发了原本不该出现的男性乳房发育问题。

It's aggravating people with gynecomastia, which wasn't supposed to do.

还有S4带来的视力副作用。

And then the S4 side effects with the vision.

接着S23出现了，我开始注意到，它当时有个绰号。

And then they came out with S23 and I started to see, is, this was, it was nicknamed.

它就像一种男性避孕药。

It was like a male contraceptive.

那就是它的绰号。

That was the nickname of it.

它完全抑制了睾酮的产生。

It's just completely shutting down testosterone.

但你可以更快地恢复。

Well, you can recover from it quicker.

你怎么知道的？

Well, how do you know that?

这其实就是一种营销手段。

You know, and it's just the marketing trick.

我想我见证了这种演变，真是令人害怕。

I guess that I've seen that evolution go on and it's scary.

你知道，这非常可怕。

You know, it's very scary.

人们缺乏教育，正在对自己做这些事，这就是为什么每个人都想寻找优势。

The uneducation that people have and what they're doing to themselves and that's why, you know, everybody's looking for an edge.

每个人都想增肌，而我正准备转向这个领域。

Everybody's looking for to build muscle and that's where I'm transitioning.

所以我们有了这些。

So we've got all of these.

我们有你的合成激素。

We've got your pro hormones.

我们有SARMs。

We've got the SARMS.

我们知道它们能做什么。

We know what they can do.

我们也知道它们可能造成的伤害。

We also know the damage they can do.

对你来说，这种从天然安全的东西发展到现在的过程，究竟走向了哪里？

For you, where has this gone for something that's natural and safe?

除了我们熟知的肌酸之外，还有哪些选择？我会回头再谈肌酸的其他益处，但还有哪些东西能帮助我们有效增肌增力，又不会抑制自身睾酮分泌、不破坏内分泌系统、避免这些副作用？

Like what are the options aside from creatine, which we know, and I want we'll go back to creatine on the other benefits, but what else is there that we could potentially build good strength and good muscle without shutting down our natural testosterone, without thrashing our endocrine system and having all of these side effects?

有哪些选择？

What are the options?

是的，我有几个成分可以说是非常有效且强力的。

Yeah, I have a handful that I would say are actually quite potent and effective.

它们会像类固醇一样吗？

Are they going to be steroid like?

可能不会，但绝对安全得多。

Probably not, but radically safer for sure.

Dilucine 是一种我参与推向市场的成分。

Dilucine is an ingredient I've helped bring to market.

它是一种亮氨酸二肽。

It's a dipeptide of leucine.

亮氨酸能促进肌肉蛋白合成，是关键的氨基酸、支链氨基酸、必需氨基酸，能驱动肌肉的生成。

Leucine drives muscle protein synthesis, the key amino acid, the branched chain amino acid, the essential amino acid that drives the creation of more muscle.

对于骨骼肌肥大或肌肉增长来说，这一点在你的身体中非常关键。

Very key in your body for this reason when you care about skeletal muscle hypertrophy or muscle growth.

这当然也适用于修复和恢复，以及一般运动员，而不仅仅是健美者或想增肌的人，还包括需要肌肉修复和恢复的人。

And certainly this applies to repair and recovery and athletes in general, not just bodybuilders or people looking to put on muscle, but those that need muscle repair and recovery.

Dilucine 是一种二肽，它比亮氨酸快得多，通过肠道中的 Pept1 转运体输送，速度提高了约 189%。

Dilucine is a dipeptide, and it's much faster than leucine and uses what's called this Pept one transporter in the gut to deliver it about a 189% faster.

我们观察到，Dilucine 能使肌肉蛋白合成比亮氨酸多 60%，比单独运动多 159%。

And what we've seen is 60% more muscle protein synthesis over leucine and a 159% more muscle protein synthesis than exercise alone.

这非常令人印象深刻，因为亮氨酸属于会产生耐受性的物质——到了某个剂量后，无论你再增加多少，它都会停止作用。

And this is really impressive because leucine is what we would call refractory where it doesn't matter how much you deliver at some point, it just shuts off.

这就是你能获得的最大肌肉蛋白合成量。

That's as much muscle protein synthesis as you can get.

与亮氨酸或其他任何物质相比，Dilucine 在肌肉蛋白合成、力量和恢复方面展现出显著差异。

We're seeing a dramatic difference in muscle protein synthesis strength and recovery with dilucine versus leucine or anything else.

因此，这非常令人兴奋。

So this has been exciting.

这一点会让健美运动员，无论是天然的还是非天然的，都感到兴奋，因为它的效果超越了必需氨基酸、支链氨基酸以及任何基于亮氨酸的产品。

This is one that bodybuilder, natural or unnatural, would be excited about, like, because this outperforms EAAs, BCAs, any, like, leucine based anything.

因此，这是我们所知的最有效的天然合成代谢物质。

So this is the most potent natural anabolic that we know of.

它的安全性如何？

How's the safety profile?

非常安全。

Incredibly safe.

当你水解或分解蛋白质时，自然会产生二肽。

This occurs naturally when you hydrolyze or break down a protein, you get down to dipeptides.

这可能看起来违反直觉——两个氨基酸结合成的二肽，竟然比单个氨基酸吸收得更快，但事实确实如此，因为肠道中有一种特殊的转运体专门负责吸收二肽和三肽，这是由信号机制驱动的。

And it may seem counterintuitive that a dipeptide is which is two amino acids together is faster than a single amino acid, but that's the case where this special transporter on the gut takes up di and tripeptides because of signaling.

实际上，现在我们理解这是一种肽信号传导：这种肽会先于所有游离氨基酸发挥作用，指导它们该做什么、去哪里。

Actually, now understand that as peptide signaling where this peptide is going ahead of all the free amino acids and telling them what to do and where to go.

这就是稀亮氨酸正在发生的情况。

So that's what's happening with with dilucine.

对此，有两个方面：肌肉蛋白合成和肌肉蛋白分解。

With that, there's two sides of the equation, muscle protein synthesis, muscle protein breakdown.

为了防止肌肉分解，HMB 是一种已经存在数十年的成分，效果非常好，尤其是与二亮氨酸搭配使用时。

So to prevent the breakdown of muscle, HMB is an ingredient that's been around for decades but is great, especially paired with dilucine.

所以是 HMB 和二亮氨酸。

So HMB dilucine.

然后，我当然非常喜欢肌酸，正如我们提到的，它能保护骨骼肌质量、增强力量，但我们也发现它对 DNA、创伤性脑损伤有保护作用，能减少疲劳、增强骨骼强度和骨密度、改善生育能力并保护卵巢和睾丸，还能改善视力。

And then with that, I love, obviously, creatine, as we've mentioned, that protects skeletal muscle mass, increases power, but we're also seeing it be protective to DNA, to traumatic brain injury, reduces fatigue, improves bone strength and bone mineral density, improves fertility and protects the ovaries and testes, improves eyesight.

我可以继续列举肌酸的所有益处。

I could just keep going down the line of all the benefits we're seeing of creatine.

我认为每个人都应该服用肌酸。

I think everyone should be on that.

而且它确实能保护我们随着年龄增长而流失的肌肉，这种随年龄增长而出现的肌肉流失被称为肌肉减少症。

And it truly protects muscle as we age, which is that muscle loss as we age is called sarcopenia.

每个人都应该服用肌酸。

Everyone should be on creatine.

另一个我喜欢的增力成分是甜菜碱。

Another strength enhancer that I like is Betaine.

好的。

Okay.

它也被称为三甲基甘氨酸。

Also called trimethylglycine.

是的。

Yep.

这也是一个非常好的成分。

That's a great one as well.

所以，这基本上就是我的终极组合了。

So this is, like, kind of my ultimate stack.

现在有一些肽类产品声称源自蚕豆。

There are some of these peptides out there that are claiming to be peptides from, like, fava bean.

有一个品牌叫PeptiStrong，我想是这样。

There's a brand called PeptiStrong, I think.

正在使用它。

Working that.

是的。

Yeah.

我不确定。

And I don't know.

关于它是否有效，我看数据似乎有点混乱。

The the data seems a little confusing to me whether that works or not.

也许有用，也许没用。

Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't.

我真的不太确定。

I'm not really sure.

到目前为止，我还没看到令人信服的数据，但也许它有帮助。

I haven't truly seen compelling data to this point, but maybe that's helpful.

我认为除非你处于极端热量限制状态，否则额外补充BCAA或EAA并没有太大帮助。

I don't think taking additional BCAs or EAs are that helpful unless you're on some kind of extreme caloric restriction.

如果你摄入了足够的蛋白质和热量，我认为这些补充剂几乎没有或完全没有益处。

If you're getting enough protein, if you're getting enough calories, I think those have little to no benefit.

我认为每天两到三次服用亮氨酸，每次搭配HMB和肌酸，效果会好得多。

I think taking dilucine two or three times a day with HMB and creatine at each of those potential two or three doses is going to have far more impact.

所以这会是我的终极组合。

So that would be my ultimate stack.

也就是肌酸、HMB、甜菜碱和亮氨酸。

So creatine, HMB, betaine, and dilucine.

没错。

Correct.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Sweet.

你能一直坚持这些吗？

Can you just stay on those?

你需要停用它们吗？

Do you need to cycle off of them?

我认为可以一直服用，它们是安全的。

I believe you can stay like it's safe to stay on them.

有一种说法是，可能由于通路、受体密度这些因素，你可能需要周期性停用，比如连续服用十二周后，停用两到四周，类似这样的做法。

There is an idea maybe with pathways, receptor density, all these kinds of things, maybe you cycle off things for, you know, you're on them twelve weeks, get off them for two to four weeks, you know, that kind of thing.

好的。

Okay.

你的身体可能会对它们产生适应，但不一定非得如此。

So your body could acclimate to them, but not necessarily.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我通常喜欢周期性使用，比如连续服用十二到十六周，然后休息几周，再重新开始。

I always like to cycle things in, like, twelve, sixteen weeks on, take a couple weeks off, reintroduce them.

这一直是我的做法，但我总是很好奇。

That's just how I've always operated, but I I'm always curious.

肌酸，我一直是持续服用的。

Creatine, I just stay on.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我，好吧。

I I okay.

我们再多聊聊肌酸吧。

Let's talk a little bit more about creatine.

我想听听你的看法，因为这件事总是让我很困扰。

I want your thoughts on this because this is one of those things that drives me nuts.

加载期。

Loading phase.

你对肌酸的加载期有什么看法？

What's your thoughts on loading phase or creatine?

补充肌酸的加载期确实有其合理性，因为你的目标是提高肌肉中磷酸肌酸的水平。

There is legitimacy into the idea of a loading phase in that you can have what you're trying to do is increase creatine phosphate levels in the muscle.

通过服用肌酸一水合物或其他形式的肌酸，你可以提高体内磷酸肌酸的内源性水平。

And by taking creatine monohydrate or some form of creatine like that, you're going to increase endogenous in the body levels of creatine phosphate.

对的。

Right.

你服用的肌酸剂量越高，肌肉达到饱和水平的速度就越快。

The higher you dose the creatine, the faster you get to saturation levels in the muscle.

因此，采用典型的每日20克肌酸加载方案，我们通常能在五天内达到肌肉饱和。

So with creatine loading, which is typically around twenty grams a day, we see saturation in the muscle at about five days.

如果你每天只服用3克，那么大约需要28到30天才能达到饱和。

If you were to do three grams a day, we see it at about twenty eight to thirty days.

当然，如果你每天服用10克，中间的剂量可能需要大约10天左右，类似这样的时间。

And of course, somewhere in between, if you were dosing ten grams a day, maybe it's, you know, I don't know, ten days, you know, something like that.

但这就是其中的逻辑所在。

But that's where the logic is.

除此之外，现在有大量的有力证据表明，肌肉具有主动运输肌酸进入肌细胞的能力。

Beyond that, there is some really compelling data now that the muscle has active transport of creatine into the muscle.

但大脑没有这种能力。

The brain does not.

我们观察到肌酸对大脑有诸多影响，但这是通过被动运输实现的。

We see a lot of effects of creatine on the brain, but it's a passive transport.

这意味着只有非常大的剂量才能影响大脑。

What this means is that only very large doses of creatine are affecting the brain.

明白了。

Got it.

这正是我们看到肌酸对创伤性脑损伤产生作用的地方，要么是预防性或神经保护性的，要么是治疗性或促进脑部愈合的，当你已经患有脑损伤时。

And that's where we're seeing effects on traumatic brain injury, like literally one being prophylactic or neuroprotective or two being therapeutic or healing to the brain when you already have a brain injury.

但顺便说一下，生酮物质与肌酸联合使用对创伤性脑损伤会非常有效。

But also and by the way, ketones would actually be really good to combine with a traumatic brain injury with creatine.

此外，我们还看到新研究探讨了疲劳和抗疲劳能力，以及睡眠不足的情况。

But also we're seeing new studies talk about fatigue and resistance to fatigue and those being underslept.

有一项研究使用了二十到三十克的剂量，参与者只睡了大约五个小时，但他们的感觉和表现却与睡了八小时的人一样好。

There was a study with the twenty to thirty grams where they only got like five hours of sleep, I believe, and they felt as good as and performed as good as those that had eight hours of sleep.

因此，我们看到肌酸的效果非常显著，真的非常显著。

And so we're seeing creatine be remarkable, truly remarkable.

你得想想这中间的差距有多大。

You have to think about how big of a difference that is.

我的意思是，少睡三个小时，可能相当于喝了四杯酒精饮料对表现的影响。

I mean, that would be being three hours underslept would probably be the equivalent of having like four alcoholic drinks in terms of your performance.

它会产生显著的影响。

It has a dramatic effect.

仅仅通过一种干预手段——摄入二十克以上的肌酸，就能让大脑达到充分睡眠时的水平，这非常了不起。

So having your brain perform at a well slept level just because of one intervention, because of 20 plus grams of creatine is quite profound.

我们还看到一些有趣的研究，尽管数据还不完整，那就是肌酸的一种前体物质GAA，这在市面上还比较新。

Where we're also seeing some interesting research and the data's not complete here yet, is a precursor to creatine called GAA, and this is fairly new to the market.

GAA可能以单独服用肌酸无法实现的方式，帮助肌酸更有效地到达大脑。

GAA may help push the creatine to the brain in a way that just taking creatine alone doesn't seem to work.

我们发现，一到两克的GAA加上几克肌酸，比如三克肌酸，效果和二十克肌酸相当。

We're seeing one or two grams of GAA with a few grams of creatine, say three grams of creatine, work as well as twenty grams of creatine.

真的吗？

Really?

这非常有趣，因为这是非常大的肌酸剂量，而且特别是女性，大剂量肌酸可能会引起胃肠道不适。

So this is very interesting, because that's a very large dose of creatine, and two, there may be some GI distress associated with in particular, women seem to have a harder time with larger doses of creatine.

这在这方面可能是一个突破。

This could be a game changer there.

因此，GAA与肌酸的组合非常令人兴奋。

So that's been very exciting is this GAA along with creatine.

目前有没有含有GAA的产品，或者单独的GAA产品了吗？

Are there any products that have this GAA in it or any solo products yet?

我不确定。

I am not sure.

这些数据还很新。

This data is pretty new.

我认为，当这个播客发布时，可能已经有几家公司在做了。

I think that maybe at the time of this podcast dropping, maybe there'll be a few companies.

但这个新产品真的很棒。

So would But it's you very be able new.

服用GAA确实有不错的神经学益处，我刚想到我朋友的公司——Unmatched，创始人Chris Gaffin曾经是Bodybuilding.com的代言人。

There was like a good neurological benefit then to taking the GAA with Just thought of my friend's company actually, Unmatched, Chris Gaffin, who was the face of bodybuilding.com back in the day.

我多年来一直很喜欢他们的产品。

I've loved them for years.

他推出了一款叫Craigotene的产品。

He has a product called Craigotene.

我服用过。

I've taken it.

我非常喜欢。

I love it.

它含有肌酸和GAA。

And it has creatine GAA in it.

而且，是的，这是一个你可以服用的产品。

And, yeah, so that is a product that you can take.

我非常推崇克里斯·斯卡蒂恩的所有产品。

I'm a huge fan of all things Chris Scathione.

他就是我的人，老兄。

He's my guy, man.

他刚推出这款产品时就寄给了我，我总是对他说：嘿，老兄。

He sent me that when he first was coming out with it, and I always tell him, Hey, man.

我得再弄一些这种量。

I gotta get some more of that amount.

我得再弄一些。

I gotta get some more.

这是我最喜欢的产品之一。

That's one of my favorite products.

我非常喜欢它。

I love it.

好的。

Okay.

我之前没提到的一个秘密成分，如果你喜欢锻炼，它可能不仅能增强肌肉，还能显著加快锻炼适应性。

One one secret ingredient I did not mention if you're into working out and maybe it could enhance certainly muscle, but like workout adaptation much faster.

你可以把它想象成让每次锻炼都获得更多重复次数和更多步数，我研究过一种运动模拟剂。

Think of it as getting more reps, more steps out of every workout is an ingredient I've worked on that is an exercise mimetic.

我们见过你之前提到的SARM市场中的某些成分，比如GW501516、ACAR或SARM。

We've seen ingredients in that SARM market that you were mentioning in the past, that GW five zero one five one six or ACAR or SARM.

没错。

Exactly.

你知道，这些成分就像把锻炼效果装进瓶子里， literally quote unquote '运动在瓶中'。

You know, these kinds of ingredients that mimic exercise, literally quote unquote exercise in a bottle.

但我们不能对FDA这么说，你必须说配合良好的饮食和锻炼才行。

Now we can't say that with the FDA, you have to say with good diet and exercise and all that.

BEBA，即β-氨基异丁酸的L型异构体，作为MITOBURN销售，能增强这种运动模拟效应。

BEBA, beta aminoisobutyric acid, the L isomer, is sold as MITOBURN, enhances this exercine.

当你锻炼时，你的支链氨基酸池——约占肌肉的50%——会在一定程度上被分解。

So as you're working out, your BCAA pool, which is about 50% of your muscle, breaks down to some degree.

这正是过去人们主张在锻炼期间补充支链氨基酸的理论依据。

This was the theory around taking BCAAs while you're working out.

特别是缬氨酸，是三种支链氨基酸中的一种。

And in particular, valine is one of the three BCAAs.

缬氨酸会转化为一种运动模拟物，也就是一种来自运动的信号。

Valine will convert into an exercine, meaning like a signal from exercise.

它也被称为肌因子，因为它是肌肉分解所产生的信号。

It's also called a myokine because it's a signal from muscle breakdown.

这个信号告诉身体：我们正在高强度锻炼。

And this signal says to the body, we're working out intensely.

所有与高强度锻炼相关的适应性变化，都请加速进行。

All adaptations associated with intense working out, let's ramp those up.

BABA（β-氨基异丁酸）与提升VO2最大值、神经可塑性、骨密度、肌肉神经支配和力量，以及增加骨骼肌质量密切相关。

BABA is literally associated with improved VO2 max, neuroplasticity, bone mineral density, muscle innervation and strength, increased skeletal muscle mass.

所有你认为与高强度锻炼相关的益处，都与BABA有关。

All the things that you would associate with working out intensely are associated with BABA.

我们已经证明，口服BABA（MITO burn）能显著提高你在锻炼期间体内自身的BABA水平。

And we've shown that oral BABA, the MITO burn, will increase your endogenous or in the body levels of BABA around a workout quite dramatically.

所以，这实际上就像我所说的，让你每次锻炼都能获得更多的重复次数或步数，这一点也非常有说服力。

So this is literally, like I said, like getting more reps or more steps out of every workout, so that's pretty compelling as well.

我们还观察到脂肪质量减少、酮体利用率提高、糖原利用或储存能力增强——所有这些都与锻炼相关。

And we're also seeing decreased fat mass, improved ketone utilization, glycogen utilization or storage, like all of these kinds of things that that we associate with exercise.

我们已经讨论过很多肌酸了，但我还想问问你的看法，因为你和我都见证了肌酸及其各种形态的演变，还有价格的涨跌，以及最近几年突然爆火的现象——其实它一直都在那里，只是突然间变得极其流行。

We've we've talked about creatine a lot, but I wanted to ask one more on your thoughts here because you and I have both seen the evolution of creatine and all of the different forms of it and the price of things that have gone up and down and the popularity now all of a sudden is out of this world, just all of a sudden, the past couple of years when it's been sitting there the whole time.

这个问题有两个部分。

Two part question.

第一，传统的肌酸一水合物是最好的吗？还是HCL或其他形式与之不相上下？

One, is good old monohydrate the best or is HCL or any of these other forms right on par?

你对此有什么看法？

What's your thoughts there?

第二，是什么时候突然间所有人都知道了它的所有益处，而以前它只被熟知于增肌和力量提升，以及导致水分滞留。

And two, when did it occur that it just all of a sudden everybody knows now all of the benefits, whereas before it was just for muscle and strength, and that's that's really all it was known for in water retention.

因为那基本上就是过去大家一直谈论的全部内容。

Because that's like essentially, that's what was always talked about amongst everybody.

它会让我更强壮。

It's gonna make me stronger.

它会让我更壮实，还会让我体内储水。

It's gonna make me bigger, and it's gonna hold water.

顺便说一下，我是国际运动营养学会（ISSN）的会员，拥有该学会的会员资格，这非常有声望，我对此心怀感激。大约在2010年，我参与编写了一本关于运动营养的权威教材，并成为作者之一。

Yeah, by the way, I'm a fellow in the ISSN, the International Society of Sports Nutrition, and I have my fellowship there, that's very prestigious and I'm thankful, but we worked on really a potent textbook around sports nutrition, and I got to be one of the authors around 2010.

当时，我正在撰写肌酸在神经认知增强方面的益处。

And at that time, I was writing the neurological cognitive enhancing benefits of creatine.

真的吗？

Really?

那时候，只有少量的临床前研究，也就是动物实验数据，可能还有一些体外实验数据，而我因此受到了很多质疑。

At that time, there was only some preclinical, which means animal data, maybe some in vitro data, and I took so much heat over that.

你根本无法想象，仅仅谈论肌酸超越肌肉的理论益处，我承受了多少批评。

You can't even imagine how much of a beating I took just talking about the theoretical benefits well beyond muscle of creatine.

我提到了骨骼、生育能力、视力、大脑功能，以及未来可能成为治疗创伤性脑损伤的工具。

I mentioned bone, fertility, eyesight, brain function, and potentially being a tool that we will tap into in the future around traumatic brain injury.

十五年前我就在说这些，当时从学术界收到了大量的质疑。

I was saying that over fifteen years ago, and I took so much heat from the academic community.

我老实说，直到现在才完全想不起这件事。

And I honestly forgot all about that until right now.

所以这多少算是一种平反。

So this is a little bit of vindication.

我本来想说，这算是一点点的平反。

I was gonna say, just a little bit of a vindication.

这真是太不可思议了。

It is incredible.

正如我所说，每个人都应该服用肌酸。

As I said, everyone should be on it.

是的

Yeah.

而且它不仅仅关乎力量和爆发力，或者我们通常认为的健美运动员或运动员的成分，比如短跑选手的成分。

And it is not just strength and power and what we've come to think of as a bodybuilder or athlete's ingredient, like a sprinter's ingredient.

它适用于每个人。

It is for everyone.

它适用于奶奶。

It is for grandma.

它适用于每个人，因为它能防止我们衰老过程中肌肉流失，即肌肉减少症。

It is for everyone because it is protecting muscle loss as we age, that sarcopenia.

它能保护你的DNA。

It is protecting your DNA.

它能预防癌症，保护大脑，保护视力，正如我所说，还有生育能力，以及骨骼健康，对全身和衰老质量都有强大的益处。

It is protecting against cancer, protecting your brain, protecting your eyesight, like I said, fertility, all these bone, it's powerful for your full body and how well you're aging.

我相信每个人，每个人都应该每天服用至少三克肌酸，百分之百推荐。

I do believe everyone, everyone should be taking at least three grams a day of creatine three, hundred percent.

就这样，结束了。

Period, the end.

现在已有上千项已发表的研究。

So there is over a thousand published studies now.

这又是我在临床工作时遭受批评的一个地方。

This is another place that I took a beating when I was working clinically.

我曾试图让所有住在养老院的病人服用肌酸，因为正如我所说，他们因肌肉流失（肌少症）以及恶病质而摄入的蛋白质不足。

I tried to put all my patients in a nursing home on creatine because of muscle mass loss as I'm talking about with sarcopenia as well as cachexia with those just not getting enough protein.

我们遇到过压疮，因为这些病人没有被及时翻身或活动，长期卧床。

We had pressure ulcers from those that were not being turned or moving enough and were laying in bed.

皮肤和肌肉 literally 会分解，变得坏死和感染，他们甚至可能因肌肉分解而死亡。

Literally, the skin and muscle breaks down and can become necrotic and infected, and they can just die of just their muscle breaking down.

我试图让他们都服用肌酸，但我的巡诊医生、住院医师却说：‘关于补充剂没有好的研究。’

And I tried to put them all on creatine and my rounding physician, the house physician said, There's no good studies on supplements.

我当时就说：‘老兄，那时候已经有500多项研究了。'

And I was like, Buddy, there is 500 plus studies at that time.

现在有一千多项了。

Now there's over a thousand.

我当时就说，你们给他们用的大多数药物，只有一两项研究支持，而且经常经过多次操控，只为显示出微小的正面效果，从而通过FDA审批。

And I was like, Most of the medications you're putting them on have one or two studies, and quite often they've been manipulated with many rounds to show minor positive benefit enough to push it through the FDA.

你却告诉我，这些数据比我们关于肌酸的500多项研究更好？而肌酸是安全的，我完全可以显著阻止这些人的身体衰退。

And you're telling me that's better data than the 500 plus studies that we have on creatine and this is safe and I could literally prevent the decline of these people dramatically.

这正是我最终放弃临床实践、完全转向补充剂领域的原因之一。

And that was one of the reasons I ended up getting out of my clinical practice just going into supplements entirely.

我实在太沮丧了，因为无法在这一层面产生影响。

I was so frustrated at trying to make an impact on that level.

是的。

Yeah.

我感觉自己一直在与直觉、知识或创新作对。

It felt like I was just constantly working against intuition or knowledge or innovation.

这真的太让人沮丧了。

It's just so frustrating.

是的，这就像一道屏障。

Yeah, it's like a barricade.

我完全相信肌酸。

So I believe fully in creatine.

我认为每个人都应该服用肌酸。

I believe everyone should be taking creatine.

每个人都应该每天至少服用三克，最多五克。

Everyone should be taking at least three grams, maybe up to five grams a day.

同样，对于认知益处，可能需要高达二十克，或者加上几克的GAA，再加上三克肌酸，可能是更简单、更好的方式。

Again, cognitive benefits, maybe up to twenty grams, maybe GAA at a couple grams, plus three grams of creatine could be the easier, the better way.

你确实需要仔细查看，肌酸中还含有其他化合物。

You do have to actually look at, and creatine has these other compounds in it.

使用GAA时，可能会提高同型半胱氨酸水平。

With GAA, you can raise levels of homocysteine.

因此，我所知道的Chris Gethin所使用的这种肌酸配方，含有B12和叶酸，用以抵消这一影响。

So this formula, creatine, that I know Chris Gethin has, has the B12 and folate in it to actually offset that.

因此，保持同型半胱氨酸水平在正常范围内非常重要，数据显示补充后同型半胱氨酸水平确实降低了，这非常理想。

So that's really important to keep homocysteine levels in check, and they've actually shown with the data that homocysteine levels were lower with supplementation as a result, so that's ideal.

那肌酸的形态呢？

What about the forms of creatine?

是的。

Yeah.

肌酸一水合物是最容易提及的，几乎所有ISSN的专家或我认识的人都会说，肌酸一水合物是黄金标准。

So creatine monohydrate is easiest to say, and most everyone that's a fellow in the ISSN or people that I know would say creatine monohydrate, that's the gold standard.

这是每个人都在使用的类型。

That's the one that everyone uses.

它的价格最划算。

It's the best price.

购买时要小心你买的是什么。

Be careful what you're buying.

我推出了一种名为最纯净肌酸的产品，其纯度甚至高于知名的德国肌酸。

I've come out with a form called the purest creatine that's actually purer than the well known German creatine.

这是市场上最纯净的。

It's the purest one on the market.

那是谷胱甘肽吗？

Is that Glutathione?

那是一个知名品牌，但我有一个叫Purist的产品，实际上比它更优。

That is a brand that's well known, but I have one that's called Purist that actually exceeds that one.

这两种都是很好的肌酸，但市场上有很多肌酸单水合物含有杂质DCD，我们正在揭示肌酸中存在的这些毒素。

Those are both great creatines though, but there is a lot of creatine monohydrate on the market that has an impurity called DCD in it, and we're bringing light to some of these toxins that are present in the creatine.

所以我要提醒你，只购买你能找到的最高品质的肌酸。

So I would be careful and only buy the highest quality creatine that you can.

至于肌酸HCL、肌酸苹果酸、肌酸柠檬酸或市场上所有这些不同形式的肌酸，可能已经有大约30种了。

As far as creatine HCL and creatine malate or creatine citrate or all these different forms that have been on the market, there's probably been 30 form.

肌酸乙酯、无水肌酸等。

Reradian ethyl ester, there's familial anhydrous.

市场上有非常多的肌酸产品。

There is a lot of creatines on the market.

你只是多付钱了。

You're just overpaying.

是的。

Yeah.

我相信。

I believe.

实际上，肌酸具有良好的生物利用度和优异的转化为磷酸肌酸的能力。

It's it's really just creatine has good bioavailability, great conversion to creatine phosphate.

所以我认为，花更多的钱购买肌酸并没有额外的好处。

So I don't think there's additional benefits into spending more money on your creatine.

我要说的是，肌酸一水合物的溶解性并不好。

One thing I will say is creatine monohydrate does not have good solubility.

所以我会建议你，取一茶匙肌酸，直接放进嘴里，然后用水、果汁、牛奶或你的蛋白粉饮料等一口吞下，以确保全部摄入。

So what I would do is actually take the teaspoon of creatine, throw it in your mouth, then kick it back with, you know, some water, some juice, some milk, your protein shake, whatever as a way to ensure that you're getting it all.

我认为这是最聪明的做法。

I think that's the the smartest way to do it.

否则，如果你只是把它放进摇摇杯，或者和你的健身前饮料之类的东西混在一起，它可能会沉在杯底，导致你根本喝不到。

Otherwise, if you're just putting it in your shaker cup or, you know, with your pre workout or those kinds of things, it can end up being something that settles to the bottom of the cup and you may never drink it.

所以，这才是最聪明的做法。

So that would be the the smartest thing to do.

那关于大家总是很害怕、总想提起的水分滞留迷思呢？

What about the water retention myth that everybody is so fearful of that always wants to bring up?

我觉得这些年来情况已经改善了，因为以前大家最担心的是肠胃不适，然后就是水分滞留。

And I think that it's gotten better over the years because before that was like the biggest fear with it was the GI and then the water retention.

所以，我认为这有点儿。

So tell me, is that I think a little bit.

体脂率越高，女性由于维持生育能力等各种原因，体脂率通常比男性更高。

The higher the body fat, and so women tend to carry more body fat potentially than men just for maintaining fertility and all the things, Men, maybe an ideal might be somewhere like 12 to 20% body fat.

对于女性来说，体脂率大概在18%到26%左右。

For women, it's going to be 18 to 26% or something like that.

她们的体脂率确实稍高一些。

They're a little bit higher in body fat.

你体脂越多，可见的水分滞留也会稍微多一点。

The more body fat you have, there is a little bit more water retention that's visible.

这非常轻微。

This is very small.

如果你完全饱和，可能只会多出两到三磅。

It might be two, three pounds if you're fully saturated.

你维持的其他体重实际上来自肌内。

Some of the other weight that you're maintaining is actually intramuscular.

可能会有一点点水分滞留。

There may be a little bit of water weight retention.

多年来我们发现，分次服用能显著缓解这个问题。

What we've found through the years is that dividing your doses seems to resolve that dramatically.

所以如果你想要每天摄入十克，就分三次每次服用三克。

So if you want to take ten grams a day, just take three grams three times a day.

或者如果你想要摄取五克，可以每次服用一点五克，一天三次，或者类似的方式，我们通常发现这样能解决这个问题。

Or if you wanna take five grams, you know, take one and a half grams three times a day or, you know, something like that, and we tend to see that resolve.

这就能解决。

Resolves it.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

All right.

所以我的转变，我觉得最主要是当我遇到医生的时候。

So my shift, I would say most really when I met Doctor.

戴夫·拉宾，我从以前只专注于健身、力量、营养和肌肉，这些当然都很重要。

Dave Rabin, I went from being so focused on fitness and strength and nutrition and muscle, which is all important, obviously.

但那只是拼图中的一块而已，因为随着时间推移，我逐渐明白，现在我总在说，身心是相连的，两者缺一不可。

But that's only one piece of the puzzle really because for me, what I've gathered over time is, and I always talk about this now, is a mind and body connection, and you have to have them both.

现在我会从一个顶层开始，然后逐步向下展开。

Now I start from a, like, take it like a top and then I branch it down.

所以我先从灵性入手，再延伸到神经科学和营养训练。

So I start with spirituality and go then to neurological and like nutrition training.

我知道有些人不想听这些。

I know some people don't want to hear that.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

这就是我的信念。

That's my that's my belief.

今天我们只关注神经层面和身体层面。

We'll just focus today on the the neurological and then the physical side of things.

你觉得把这两方面都调整好有多重要？

How important do you feel it is to have those both dialed in?

你认为人们是不是太专注于身体层面，尤其是补充剂，以至于忽略了这样一个事实：如果你上面（精神）失调，下面（身体）就不可能协调，反之亦然。

Do you think people are so focused on the physical side with the supplements especially that we're taking that they kind of bypass the importance and the understanding that if you're misaligned up here, you're never going to be aligned over here and vice versa.

但我认为，我们需要充分理解神经系统的健康，理解交感神经和副交感神经之间的平衡，理解那些 lingering 的创伤，以及它们对我们的血液指标、压力和焦虑有多大的影响。

But I think the amount of understanding that needs to be said on being good neurologically and having a balance between your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system, understanding that there's traumas there that linger and how much of a drastic effect that has on all of our blood panels, the stress, the anxiety.

不管我们训练得多好、吃得有多健康、摄入多少肌酸和补充剂，我都无所谓。

I don't care how good we train and how we eat and how much creatine and and supplement we take.

这不对劲。

This is off.

我的意思是，你怎么看？

I mean, what's your thoughts?

因为我发现，你永远都无法达到平衡。

Because what I am finding is you're just never going to be aligned.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我不久前读过一项研究，发现无论在何种环境、何种剂量下，只要使用过一次任何类型的致幻剂，全因死亡率就会降低三分之一。

One, I had read a study not too long ago that one use of any type of psychedelic in any environment, in any dose, one use or more was associated with a one third reduction in all cause mortality.

哇。

Wow.

我相信这是因为创伤和压力这些被储存在身体里、储存在你的操作系统里、储存在你的信念系统和自我中的东西，它们影响着你日复一日所执行的惯性模式。

And I believe that is because of trauma and stress and these things that are stored in the body, that are stored in your operating system, stored in your belief system, your ego of how you play out the routines that you're going through day to day.

只有在这些高度神经可塑的环境中，我们才能重写这段代码，像尼奥一样进入操作系统，修改那些代码，说：这些不再服务于我了。

It's only in these kind of highly neuroplastic environments that we can rewrite that code, that we can go into the operating system like Neo and change those lines of code and say, that no longer serves me anymore.

否则，自我非常擅长为你的创伤找借口，围绕创伤构建身份，让你相信那就是你本人。

Otherwise, the ego's very good at justifying your trauma, creating identity around that trauma where you believe that is who you are.

而像氯胺酮这样的强效解离剂，恰恰能将你与你的身份分离，让你真正看到自己作为一个灵体、灵魂，或类似的东西，脱离了这种被构建的身份。

And that's where powerful dissociatives like ketamine, for example, that can actually pull you apart from your identity where you can actually see yourself as a spirit, if you will, or a soul, if you will, or something like that apart from this this created identity.

你不是你的名字。

Like, you're not your name.

你不是你的工作。

You're not your job.

你不是所有这些事物。

You're not all these things.

这些都只是身份，是我们在这个星球上体验自我时所建立的惯性模式。

Those are identities and these are routines that we've created on who we are while we've been experiencing ourselves on this planet.

当你能从这些中抽离出来看待自己时，你就会意识到：哇，我安全了。

When you see yourself apart from that, then you can say, woah, I'm safe.

我是一个超越这些身份的存在。

I am someone outside of that identity.

是的

Yeah.

一旦你看清了这一点，一旦你将它梳理出来，你就可以再次重写那段代码，甚至删除它，说这段代码行不通。

And then once you see that, once you tease that out, then you can again rewrite that code and and potentially delete that code and say that that line of code that doesn't work.

有效。

Work.

我需要删除很多东西。

I've got a lot of deleting.

我非常需要一个兄弟。

I need a brother like a lot.

大多数人都是如此。

So most people do.

因此，我们看到酒精使用和其他类似行为，只是因为人们感到不堪重负、压力过大，也许不是酒精，而是阿普唑仑。

And so that's why we do see alcohol use and other things like that just because people are overwhelmed, overstressed, and maybe it's not alcohol, but it's Xanax.

也许不是酒精或阿普唑仑，而是卡痛叶或其他任何东西。

Maybe it's not alcohol or Xanax, but it's kratom or whatever it is.

人们总在试图找到方法逃避自己的思绪和那些不断重复的模式，尤其是对我们这些经历过严重抑郁、陷入反复思虑的人来说。

People are always trying to figure out a way to kind of escape their thoughts and these routines that are playing out, especially for those of us, I had pretty severe depression, like ruminating thoughts.

我会反复纠结于某些事情，持续数周，陷入循环无法自拔。

Like I would tend to dwell on things for weeks and weeks and just stay in circles.

这些行为无疑对你的健康和幸福有害。

Those are definitely counterproductive your health and well-being.

正如你提到的，我们100%在观察到这种心智与肌肉的联系，或者说是肠脑轴。

And so 100% we're seeing, as you mentioned, that mind muscle connection or the gut brain axis.

我们正在从各种角度谈论大脑，尤其是运动员现在纷纷尝试使用促智药和认知增强剂，比如对讲物质，我们稍后可以讨论——运动员们提到，当他们进入心流状态时，感觉一切仿佛慢了下来，更加专注，生活、运动和表现也因此变得轻松许多。

We're hearing about the brain in all kinds of ways, certainly athletes are trying to tap into nootropics and cognitive enhancements and all these kinds of things now because, yes, like paraxanthine, for example, which we can talk about where athletes are talking about things slowing down and, you know, being in a flow state and being tapped in and how much easier life, athletics, performance can be when you're in these flow states.

你提到了交感神经和副交感神经，这属于你的自主神经系统。

And you mentioned sympathetic, parasympathetic, which is your autonomic nervous system.

这就像阴阳平衡，我们需要在两者之间取得协调：确实，我们有时需要激活交感神经，进入战斗、逃跑或冻结的状态，获得刺激。

This is kind of that yin and yang, if you will, that balance that we need where yes, we need to be in sympathetic some of the time which is fight, flight, or freeze where we're stimulated.

而多巴胺更多属于这一侧，它是一种让你行动起来的神经递质。

And think of dopamine more on that side of things where it's like the get stuff done neurotransmitter.

但另一方面，副交感神经则更多涉及GABA和一些其他神经递质，让你更加放松，比如休息和消化，也就是你恢复的状态。

But then you have, like, you know, more on the other side, the parasympathetic, which is more like GABA and and some of these neurotransmitters where you're more relaxed, which is, you know, like rest and digest, for example, like where you're recovering.

我认为，心流状态正是这两者的结合：你处于兴奋状态，但一切却自然而然地发生。

And then I believe flow state is this combination of the two where you're stimulated, but things are coming easily.

有一位作曲家曾提到过‘幻影之手’，他看着自己的手，观察着它，甚至不知道它在做什么，因为它只是实时地对乐谱做出反应。

Like this one composer talked about the phantom hand, whereas like he was like looking at his hand, observing his hand, like not even knowing what it was doing because it was just reacting in real time to the orchestration.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的吧？

You know?

就像迈克尔·乔丹或泰格·伍兹那样，你知道，周围的一切会安静下来，时间变慢，事情变得轻松起来。

Or or like a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, again, where, you know, things get quiet, things slow down, things become easier.

这就像是回到《黑客帝国》里的尼奥，他微笑着，轻松地在子弹间移动身体，仿佛完全不费力。

It's like you're again, going back to Neo when when he's just kinda like smiling and he's like, you know, moving his body around the bullets and it's like, no problem.

他就像随手拨开空中的子弹，说：哦，这根本算不了什么。

And and it's like, you know, he's kinda like flicking the bullets out of the air and he's like, oh, this is like nothing.

他正处于一种终极的心流状态。

He's in like kind of the ultimate flow state.

因此，这就是我会讨论这个问题的方式，但毫无疑问，总体而言，聪明药的使用量正在飙升。

And so that would be how I would discuss that but certainly we're seeing nootropics in general go through the roof.

这与我们之前讨论的SARMs和前体激素类似，我们可以深入探讨肽类物质，当然也可以讨论对甲基黄嘌呤，但现在有很多聪明药网站在销售那些研究不足的实验性化合物。

There's a lot of similar to SARMS and prohormones as we discussed, and we can get into peptides and certainly get into paraxanthine, but there's a lot of nootropic sites that are selling research compounds that are not well researched.

有些是经过研究的，有些则不是。

Some of them are, some of them are not.

有些是非常新的实验性化合物，可能带来一些短期益处，但我们还不清楚它们的长期效果如何。

Some of them are very new compounds that are experimental compounds that may have some acute benefits, but we're not sure of what the long term benefits are.

我们不知道当这些化合物被混合使用时会产生怎样的多药相互作用，比如没人研究过这种疯狂的实验化合物和那种疯狂的实验化合物，再加上另一个疯狂的实验化合物，全部叠加在一起——这显然研究得非常少，因此我们并不清楚人们随意叠加这些物质后会产生怎样的总体影响。

We don't know what the polypharmacy effects are where they're being combined, like no one studied this crazy research compound and this crazy research compound and this crazy research compound all stacked, that's obviously very understudied and so we don't know what the net effect of some of these things are that people are just stacking.

是的。

Yeah.

很多人在服用各种不同的物质，这很有风险。

There's a lot of people taking a lot of different things and it's risky.

我以前也是这样，没有多年的数据我绝不会碰任何东西，因为我有那种恐惧。

I used to be that way and I won't touch things without years and years of data because I get that fear.

不幸的是，但也是幸运的是，我就是那种类型一，永远停不下来。

Unfortunately, and fortunately, I'm like that type one where I never shut off.

所以当我状态好时，我会表现得非常出色。

So when I'm good, I'm great.

但当我压力大、充满焦虑时，我会跌到谷底，因为我无法摆脱自己的困扰。

But when I'm stressed and anxiety filled, I am like rock bottom because I can't get out of my own way.

事实上，来这里的路上，我正在做晨间祈祷，只是祈求帮助，让我别再让焦虑和压力主宰我的糟糕日子。

In fact, on the way, the drive here, I was doing like a morning prayer and I was just asking for help to just stop letting anxieties and stresses dominate my bad days.

因为，正如我所说，当你像我这种类型时，一旦状态上来，就会非常好。

Because when, like I said, when I'm on, like when you're like my type, you're on.

但当你状态差时，就会非常差。

But when you're bad, it's bad.

我以前用大麻来镇静，但后来发展到它反而给我带来更多压力，因为经过多年，我对它产生了恐慌感，这完全是适得其反。

And I used to use marijuana to to calm, but then it got to the point where it was causing me more stress because it was like over years and years I became to be panicky with it and it was like counterproductive.

我现在试着用祈祷来平静自己，还真的退了一步去玩游戏，因为我从不玩，但我想在晚上玩。

And I'm trying now to use prayer to calm and like actually took a step back and do like gaming because I never do it and I want to at night.

这确实给我带来了缓解。

And that's actually provided me relief.

甚至昨晚，当我担心明天会不会迟到时，

Even last night when I was worried about, oh, am I gonna be late tomorrow to to this?

而且我明天的日程排得满满的，我就坐在那儿玩了一个小时，天哪，然后直接睡着了。

And I've got such a stacked day, and I sat there and played for an hour, dude, and I passed out.

我开心极了。

And I was happy as could be.

但我认为，找到能让你进入那种状态的东西很重要。

But I think finding something that can do that for you to put you in that state is important.

这就像我们俩都戴过的Apollo设备。

That's kinda like the Apollo here we both wore that.

它有助于刺激我的迷走神经。

That helps me stimulate my vagus nerve.

我想跟你聊聊，现在我要拿出这些产品了，因为就像你一样，我会寻找那些规模较小、较新、有创新性的公司，而你知道我的意思，这些是我们共同的朋友，但这些都是TONUM的产品，我想跟你谈谈它们，因为我在十一月的Eudaimonia活动上发现了它们。

I wanna talk to you, and I'm gonna pull these out now because I I look for, as you do, companies that are smaller, newer, innovative and and we you know where I'm going because these are our friends here that we both but these are TONUM's products, and I wanna talk to you about them because I found them in November at Eudaimonia.

他们说：‘哦，我们认识肖恩，肖恩也认识我们。’

And they said, oh, we know Shawn and Shawn.

我说：‘好的。’

And I said, okay.

既然肖恩在背后支持，我就相信它的可信度，也会因此对它产生兴趣。

Well, legitimacy, I'm sold because if Shawn's backing it, I'm going to be introduced to it and have interest in it.

现在我想跟你聊聊这两款产品：Neuro和Modus，因为你提到了对甲基黄嘌呤，我知道对甲基黄嘌呤是Neuro产品中的主要成分之一。

Now these two neuro and modus I wanna talk to you about because you brought up paraxanthine and I know paraxanthine is one of the bigger ingredients in the neuro product.

我个人更倾向Neuro，而客户层面我更关注Modus，因为我目前并不太关注减重，但我知道，你也知道，有多少人正在为减重和GLP-1使用而挣扎，等我们谈到肽类时，我想跟你深入聊聊这个话题。

I'm more drawn to the neuro for the personal side and the modus for the client side because I don't I'm not really focused on weight loss right now, but I know and you know how many people struggle with weight loss and GLP-one use, which I want to get into with you when we get to the peptides.

但我先从Neuro这一侧说起，尤其是这款产品，因为其中的α-磷脂酰胆碱让我很感兴趣，还有对甲基黄嘌呤。

But I want to start with the neuro side and this product in particular because the Alpha GPC is the one that interests me and the paraxanthin.

这里一共有七种优质成分，但我特别想跟你聊聊这两个，尤其是你之前提到了对甲基黄嘌呤。

There's great seven ingredients in here, but I want to talk to you specifically about those two, especially since you brought up the paraxanthin.

跟我说说这个，它是如何帮助提升专注力的。

Tell me about that, how it helps for focus.

所以，对甲基黄嘌呤是咖啡因的三种代谢物之一。

What what So paraxanthine is one of the three metabolites of caffeine.

当你摄入咖啡因时，你的身体会将其去甲基化，分解为三种化合物：茶碱、可可碱和对甲基黄嘌呤。

When you consume caffeine, your body breaks it down into demethylates it into one of three compounds, theophylline, theobromine, and paraxanthine.

过去我们把对甲基黄嘌呤称为咖啡因的代谢物，但更准确地说，咖啡因其实是对甲基黄嘌呤的不纯前体。

Paraxanthine, we used to talk about as the metabolite of caffeine, but said better, caffeine is the dirty precursor to paraxanthine.

对甲基黄嘌呤才是我们真正需要的活性成分。

Paraxanthine is the active that we really want.

咖啡因，尤其是茶碱，会引发许多我们不希望出现的副作用。

Caffeine and in particular theophylline are responsible for a lot of the side effects we don't want.

所以，尽量避免或至少最大限度地减少咖啡因的摄入。

So getting rid of caffeine or at least minimizing it as much as you can.

我们已经用数据证明，下午之后摄入任何剂量的咖啡因都会影响睡眠。

I mean, we've shown with with data that anything after noon with caffeine, any level has been shown to impair sleep.

因此，切换到paraxanthine后，你会看到神经可塑性增强，这意味着大脑更年轻，神经元——即脑细胞——得到再生和保护。

So this is where switching to paraxanthine, you'll see increased neuroplasticity, meaning like youthfulness of the brain and a kind of regeneration and protection of neurons, the brain cells.

你会看到大脑中的一氧化氮和血流量增加。

You'll see increased nitric oxide to the brain, blood flow.

你会看到谷胱甘肽和过氧化氢酶——即主要抗氧化剂——增加，从而减少氧化应激。

You'll see increased glutathione and catalase, the master antioxidant, and decreased oxidative stress as a result.

β-淀粉样蛋白斑块减少，这种斑块与阿尔茨海默病相关；乙酰胆碱、多巴胺和血清素增加。

Decreased beta amyloid plaque, which is associated with Alzheimer's, increased acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin.

我们都知道大脑衰老有哪些方式？

What are all the ways we know that the brain ages?

氧化增加、谷胱甘肽减少、一氧化氮减少、β-淀粉样蛋白斑块增加，所有这些都会导致多巴胺下降。

Increased oxidation, decreased glutathione, decreased nitric oxide, increased beta amyloid plaque, you know, all of these things, decrease dopamine.

这些全部都是神经退化和大脑衰老的表现。

Those are all neurodegeneration and aging of the brain.

确切地说，paraxanthine正在逆转衰老过程。

Literally paraxanthine is reversing the aging.

因此，它不仅具有急性促智效果，我们已在多项研究中证明，单次使用即可产生效果——比如在一项针对运动员的10公里赛跑研究中，他们在赛前和赛后分别进行了多任务测试，结果显示，服用副黄嘌呤的运动员在体力耗尽后，心理错误率降低了11%，而咖啡因组的心理错误率却上升了23%。

And so not only is it acutely nootropic, meaning we've shown in many studies in the one use, like we showed with athletes in a 10 k race where they took a multitasking test before and after the race, that they performed better after they raised, after they were exhausted because of paraxanthine they had eleven percent decreased mental errors whereas the caffeine group had twenty three percent increase in mental errors.

所以，副黄嘌呤带来的是心流状态，而咖啡因带来的是混乱状态，这两者截然不同。

So literally paraxanthine is the flow and caffeine is the frazzle and this is where they're just radically different.

它们根本就不是一回事。

They're not the same at all.

因此，我们不仅观察到了急性促智效果，还看到了它的神经保护作用。

And so we're seeing both that acute nootropic as well as that neuroprotective effect.

在我们进行的一项电子竞技研究中，这一神经保护和增强大脑功能的观点得到了进一步证实：我们追踪了电子竞技运动员六周，他们每次训练两小时，结果发现，不仅在每次训练中都出现了即时效应——随着每场游戏的进行，他们对抗疲劳的能力不断提升，到了两小时时，他们的表现几乎和刚开始时（第零小时）一样好。

And we actually see the reinforcement of this idea of being neuroprotective enhancing the brain in an eGaming study we did where we saw the eGaming athletes over the course of six weeks and playing for two hours per session, that not only was there an acute time effect where with each gaming session, we saw that they improved in resistance to fatigue, like literally where at two hours, they were basically playing at the same level they were at hour zero.

而如果没有服用任何物质，他们的表现会在第一小时就开始急剧下滑，到第二小时更是明显下降。

Whereas with nothing, when they took nothing, they had a steep drop off at hour one, at hour two.

事实上，六周后，我们发现他们在两小时内的表现基本保持稳定，这说明不仅每次训练都有即时效应，而且在六周的持续使用过程中，他们的表现也在不断进步，越来越好。

And literally at six weeks, we saw basically they stayed the same across two two hours, and so there was a time effect acutely meaning with each session, but there was a time effect across the six weeks too where they seemed to be getting better and better and better with continued use.

而使用咖啡因的人，则呈现出负面的长期效应——随着持续使用，他们的表现越来越差。

With caffeine, we see a negative time effect where you get worse and worse and worse with continued use.

所以，帕拉咖啡因的作用方式简直是天壤之别。

So this is just a night and day difference in how paraxanthine works.

我们当然对此非常兴奋，而且你知道，我之前跟你聊过Update，这是我参与的一个品牌。

We've been obviously very excited about it, and, you know, I've talked to you about Update, which is one brand that I've been involved with.

还有一位名人，可能是全球最知名的五个人之一，即将加入Update，品牌重塑后将登陆沃尔玛以及其他许多渠道。

And there's a celebrity that's probably one of the top five most well known human beings on the planet that is coming on board with Update, and and it's launching into the rebrand is launching into Walmart and and a lot of other places.

另外还有一款叫Life Cider X的产品，含有苹果醋和帕拉咖啡因，味道也非常棒。

There's also another thing called Life Cider X that has apple cider vinegar and and paraxanthine that's that's quite delicious as well.

所以，帕拉咖啡因现在正处在它的高光时刻。

So paraxanthine is certainly having its moment right now.

如果你喜欢口含袋，还有一种类似ZYN这类烟草或尼古丁口含袋的口腔用袋装产品。

There's also, if you like pouches, there's these oral pouches similar to, like, the idea of these tobacco or nicotine pouches like ZYN.

有一款叫Ultra的产品就含有帕拉咖啡因。

There's one called Ultra that has paraxanthine in it.

但你还提到了另一种神经增强剂——Alpha GPC，我们研究过的特定版本叫Genius Pure。

But Alpha GPC is another nootropic that you mentioned in particular, our studied version called Genius Pure.

是的

Yeah.

我们通过330毫克的剂量证明，专注力直接翻倍，达到了2倍的提升。

And we showed that with the three thirty milligram dose that we doubled focus, literally 2x the focus.

这确实是一个巨大的突破。

So that is a huge deal.

仅凭一种营养素，就能将生产力和专注力提升到这种程度，这个数字令人震惊。

That number is a staggering number to improve productivity and focus to that degree from just one nutrient.

当然，当你把α-磷脂酰胆碱和对乙酰氨基酚结合起来，这是我所知道的提升专注力和心流状态最有效的组合。

And certainly, you have alpha GPC and paraxanthine together, that is the most potent thing I know of that you can can add for for focus and flow.

所以对乙酰氨基碱，因为我看到我们提到它时你的表情，我知道它对你来说非常重要。

So the paraxanthine, because I saw your face when we brought that up, so I know it's a big deal to you.

让我们简单点说吧，因为你已经涵盖了所有科学部分。

I let let's just make this very simple because you covered all of the good science part of it.

本质上，它就是咖啡因的精华部分。

Essentially, it's the good part of caffeine.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

而且你可以在一天中的晚些时候服用，不会影响睡眠，也不会感到焦虑或不适。

And you can take that later in the day without losing sleep or getting jittery or any of that.

它不会对你产生那种影响。

It's not gonna have that kind of effect on you.

对吧？

Right?

它通常持续大约三个小时，最多可能到三个半小时，四个小时已经是极限了。

It typically lasts about three hours, maybe three and a half hours, four hours absolute max.

晚上锻炼的人也能睡得很好。

People that are working out in the evening get great sleep.

我们实际上已经证明，它能提高心率变异性，而咖啡因，正如我提到的，即使在下午两点服用，也会在十点或十一点时影响你的睡眠。

We've actually shown improved HRVs, whereas with caffeine, as I mentioned, like even at 2PM, it worsens your sleep at ten or eleven.

更不用说晚上锻炼时服用含有四百毫克咖啡因和其他成分的预锻炼补剂了，这会让你彻底兴奋起来。

So let alone working out on a pre workout in the evening with four hundred milligrams of caffeine and all this other stuff, like it will jack you up.

所以睡眠质量绝对更干净、更好。

So absolutely much cleaner, better sleep.

你没有这种生物个体差异。

You don't have the bio individuality.

对于咖啡因，我们有快代谢者和慢代谢者，快代谢者的半衰期大约为一个半小时。

We have with caffeine, there's fast and slow metabolizers where the fast metabolizers can have, like, an hour and a half half life.

而慢代谢者占人口的百分之六十，也就是大多数普通人，半衰期可长达十个小时以上，咖啡因在体内需要好几天才能完全代谢掉。

The slow metabolizers, which is sixty percent of the population, the majority of us, can have up to ten and a half hour half life where it's literally taking days to get that caffeine out of your system.

我真希望能做出一杯咖啡，只提取副黄嘌呤，不要咖啡因，那该多好。

I wish I I could make my coffee and just pull paraxanthin and no caffeine at that shit.

所以我得停止吃东西。

So I gotta stop the food.

喝脱因咖啡，用瑞士水法萃取，不要用化学方法。

Decaf coffee, use the Swiss water method, not some chemical method.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

选一款瑞士水萃取的、无霉变的无咖啡因咖啡，我觉得是Life Boost，对。

Get a Swiss water, you know, mold free decaf, I believe, Life Boost Yeah.

纯净。

Purity.

是的。

Yeah.

市面上确实有一些不错的，对。

There's some there's some good Yeah.

市面上有一些不错的咖啡，但最理想的方式还是通过胶囊、软糖、口腔贴片或饮品等形式直接补充对乙酰氨基酚。

Coffees out there that you could find, but those would be the ideal way to do it and just take paraxanthine in capsule, gummy, oral pouch, drink, you know, whatever.

好的。

Okay.

因为我觉得这个产品是我见过的神经类产品中最好的，虽然我没见过上百万种，但我绝对信赖这个。

So because I I I think that this product is the best one that I've seen for neuro products, and I haven't seen millions of them, but I swear by this one.