第 117 集 特邀嘉宾：迈克尔·鲁比诺！空气质量与环境健康，关于霉菌的致命真相，暖通空调系统与室内空气质量，家庭检测方案及更多内容！

这是一年一次的事吗？

Is that a once a year thing?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得一年一次挺合适的，而且时机也很关键。

I would say it's a once a year thing, and and I think timing also matters on that.

我来详细说说。

I wanna explain that a little bit.

你说吧。

Please.

我还想聊聊过滤系统的事。

And I also wanna talk about filtration.

我觉得空调系统的过滤特别重要。

I think filtration is really important for the HVAC system.

有个叫MERV评级的东西。

There's something called called the MERVE rating.

我想大家都听说过HEPA滤网。

I think we all have heard of HEPA.

是的。

Yeah.

你懂的吧？

You know?

但其实还有一个叫MERV等级的东西。

But there's something called the MERVE rating.

简单说，MERV等级越高，就能在特定效率下过滤掉更小的颗粒。

And essentially, the MERVE rating is the higher the MERVE rating, the smaller the particle could fit filter out at a specific efficiency.

HEPA基本上就是99.97%的过滤效率。

HEPA is essentially a 99.97 efficiency.

对。

Mhmm.

说白了就是这个意思，它能在特定效率下过滤掉大约0.3微米的颗粒。

And that's really what that means, and it gets to a certain particle at that efficiency, typically point three microns.

对吧？

Right?

不过你得换个角度看，有时候过滤标准其实比HEPA还要高，HEPA只是针对某一种粒径和某一特定效率而言的。

However, you wanna look at it from this perspective of sometimes you have higher filtration than just, like, what the HEPA standard is, which is just one particular size at one particular efficiency.

有时候你真的能做得比这更好。

Sometimes you can actually get better than that.

你完全可以找到比HEPA效率还高的过滤器。

You can get better than HEPA at a pretty high efficiency rate.

这值得你去研究和投入，因为能过滤更小的颗粒，系统寿命更长，维护成本也更低。

That's worth looking into and investing into because, you're really getting a smaller particle from getting into the system, which is gonna provide you more longevity and less maintenance costs.

所以你可以这么想：前期多花一点，买个更好的滤芯，长远来看反而更省钱。

So you wanna look at it from this perspective of maybe I can invest a little bit upfront and get a better filter, but actually I save more in the long run.

没错。

Mhmm.

这正是我推崇的做法，因为过滤效果越好，我们呼吸的空气就越干净。

And that's that's sort of the strategy that I like to look at because if we have better filtration, we're gonna be breathing better air.

我们家里会少很多灰尘，因为这东西会把灰尘吸进去，牢牢困在滤网里。

We're gonna be having less dust in our house because it's gonna it's actually gonna be sucking that dust up and trapping it in the filter.

这就像是在你的中央空调系统里装了个空气净化器。

It's like almost like thinking about having an air purifier in your HVAC system.

你想想，空气净化器不就是个电机加个滤网嘛。

Well, if you think about what an air purifier is, it's just a motor and a filter.

对吧？

Right?

通常就是个 fancy 的塑料盒子，但说白了就这玩意儿。

A fancy piece of plastic typically, but that's what it is.

它就是把空气吸进来，让滤网拦住颗粒物，再把干净的空气从上面吹出来。

So it just draws air in, traps particles in the filter, blows cleaner air out at the top.

说白了，就是让机器替你的肺去净化空气。

So it's essentially cleaning the air so that your lungs aren't the ones doing that.

但如果你从中央空调这个角度想，不管你的滤网多好，至少每年、或者隔年，都该清理一次系统和风管。

But when you take it to this perspective of like with the HVAC system, everybody should be cleaning their system and their ducts even if they have good filtration at least once a year or every other year depending on how good your filtration is.

我想让大家清理暖通空调系统的最佳时间是秋天。

And the exact time that I want people to clean their HVAC system is in the fall.

对。

Okay.

原因其实特别简单，你们尽管反驳我，但请先听懂这一点。

And the reason being, it's a very simple reason, and people can argue with me all they want and just understand this one thing.

我的想法是，冬天大家一般都会开暖气。

The thought process that I have on this is, in the wintertime, people are typically putting their heat on.

而暖气通常是暖通空调系统吹出来的干热风。

Their heat is typically a dry heat produced by their HVAC system.

这种干燥的热风会让线圈上滋生的微生物变得脆弱、碎裂。

That dry heat can break apart the microbes that are growing on the coil.

明白吗？

Alright?

因为它们一干就容易碎。

Because they become brittle.

它们会变成更小的碎片，更容易在屋里到处飘。

They become smaller fragments, and they circulate around the house a lot easier.

而且早就绕过过滤网了。

And it's past the filter already.

对吧。

Mhmm.

没错。

Right?

所以只要过了滤网的东西，滤网就根本拦不住。

So whatever is past the filter, the filter's not gonna unfortunately do anything with.

它们就能在屋里自由自在地到处乱飞。

It's just it's got free rein to kinda circulate across your house.

我之所以这么想，是因为我检查过成千上万套空调系统。

And the reason that I that I came up with this one, I've I've seen so many HVAC systems get tested at thousands of HVAC systems.

但真正让我有这想法的，是冬天我接到的电话最多，都是关于各种不适症状的。

But I've seen this firsthand where I get the most calls actually over the wintertime dealing with symptoms.

原因很简单，夏天你大部分时间都在外面。

And the reason is, it's very simple, in the summertime, you're outside a lot.

天气好，你在外头吃晚饭，根本不会待在家里，对吧？霉菌和细菌其实夏天就开始长了，只是你没注意。

It's nice out, you're getting dinner outside, you're not, you know, yes, the mold's probably starting to grow and the bacteria's probably starting to grow in the summertime, you know?

但你待在外面的时间多，也不怎么受影响，晚上凉快，窗户开得也多，诸如此类，对吧？

But you're outside more, you're not experiencing it more, you got these nice cool breezy nights, you open the windows more, things like that, right?

所以你根本察觉不到。

You just don't see it.

到了冬天就不一样了，暖气一开，空气又干又热，那些颗粒就开始碎裂。

Then in the wintertime, right, you get that dry heat, it starts breaking those particles apart.

这下它们全在管道里到处乱窜了。

Now all of a sudden they're traveling through the ductwork.

你可以把空调系统想象成房子的肺。

Think of it, the HVAC system like the lungs of the home.

现在你吸进去的，就是这些东西。

And now you're breathing that in.

现在你待在室内的时间更长了，因为天冷。

Now you're you're inside more because it's cold.

冬天谁也不想往外跑。

Nobody wants to go outside in the wintertime.

对吧？

Right?

说真的，你就住这儿。

Seriously, you live here.

除非你住这儿。

Unless you live here.

当然。

Sure.

或者我住的地方。

Or where I live.

没错。

Right.

但你知道，地球上其他地方的人冬天通常都窝在家里，不太出门。

But, you know, the rest of the the planet typically is bold and sheltered inside.

他们根本不想出去。

They don't wanna leave.

从原来90%的时间待在室内，变成几乎99%都待在屋里。

And they're going from 90% indoors to maybe 99% indoors.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

对吧？

Right?

然后就开始感受到这些影响了。

They start to feel those effects.

没错。

Right.

所以如果你在秋天就搞定，把那些细菌和灰尘都清理掉，再开暖气，这样暖气一开，就不会把灰尘吹得到处都是了。

And so if you do it in the fall, then you can remove all of those microbes and particles before you turn on the heat so that when you turn on that heat, there's nothing to get brittle and break apart and travel across the house.

所以我觉得关键就是换更好的过滤系统，每年秋天彻底清洁一次，这样就能避开那些问题——你想想流感季，每年冬天不都这样吗？

So I think the secret to that is get better filtration, clean your system every fall, and you'll avoid those, you know, I mean, think about the flu season, it's like every winter, right?

对啊。

Yeah.

如果你的免疫系统因为家里霉菌、细菌太多而变弱了，难道你不觉得更容易被病毒和其他东西感染吗？

Well, if your immune system's weakened because you've got a ton of mold or bacteria in your environment, don't you think you're gonna get sick more frequently from viruses and other things?

八成会。

More than likely.

没错。

Yeah.

明白了。

Okay.

那我来详细说一下。认真说，像我们这儿或者夏威夷这种地方，一年四季都暖和，那清洁时间有讲究吗？什么时候做都行，还是非得秋天？

So I'm well, I'm gonna do a breakdown here, but for the for and all serious now, for the people that live in places like here or Hawaii or whatever, does it matter the time of year When they do the cleaning, can they do it anytime or do you still stay fall?

我还是建议等天气开始变凉的时候。

I would still say when the weather's getting cooler Cooler.

你知道吗，就算你没装暖气，也不打算用暖气，也没关系。

You know, even if you don't have heat, you know, and you're not gonna use heat Yeah.

这没问题。

That's fine.

我还是建议趁天气转凉的时候做，因为这时候系统正好可以来个彻底清理重启。

I would still say when the weather's getting cooler, because you're gonna have a sort of sort of a reset.

对。

Yeah.

比如，如果你能在潮湿季节结束后再清理，那对保持系统长期清洁会特别有帮助。

Like, if you can do it after the humid season, I think you're gonna provide a lot of value and longevity into how long that system stays clean.

好的。

Okay.

那咱们给大伙儿捋个简单明了的流程吧。

So let's do this then for everybody.

你就直接说，你最推荐的步骤是啥？

Let's make it really simple and easy process on what you recommend.

那我们来清洁一下暖通空调系统。

So we're gonna clean the HVAC system.

对。

Yep.

这和你之前说的风管是一回事，还是完全不一样的？

And is that also proportionate with the ducts that you were talking or is that totally different?

就是暖通空调风管清洁。

So HVAC duct cleaning.

是的。

Yeah.

它们是两个不同的部分，但彼此有关联。

So they're they're different pieces, but they're tied together.

对吧？

Right?

比如说， somewhere 有个壁橱、有个阁楼，或者有个地下室，对吧？

So, like, if you've there's gonna be a closet somewhere or a crawl space somewhere or an attic somewhere Yeah.

就是你装空调系统的地方。

Where you're gonna have an HVAC system.

对。

Right.

通常就是那个特别大的金属盒子，到处都能看到。

And that's usually that big tin hunk of metal that you see somewhere.

上面一般有一两个盖子，掀开就能看到里面的设备。

And it's usually got one or two lids that you could pull off and you could see the unit.

然后还有连着它的风管。

And then it's got the ductwork that attaches to that.

没错。

Sure.

电机就在这儿。

So that's where the motor is.

线圈通常也在这儿。

That's where the coil typically is.

它会把风顺着风管吹进家里各个房间，那些风管就是连去各个房间的管道。

That is blowing the air through the ducts that then, you know, connect to the rooms in your house.

所以你得先找到这个金属大箱子，里面的蒸发盘管就是你要清理的部件。

So you wanna find that hunk of metal because in there is the evaporative coil that you're gonna wanna clean.

没错。

For sure.

你可以把这个盘管看成是霉菌滋生的源头。

That is think of that as like the source of where it would grow.

这并不意味着管道里就不会长东西。

It doesn't mean that it can't grow in the ducts.

它确实可能长，但需要潮湿的环境。

It can, but it needs moisture.

所以它要么会靠近那个线圈生长，就是连接着那大块金属的主管道那里，要么就是管道某个地方出问题了，比如可能有裂缝漏气。

So it's gonna grow either closer to the coil, like that main trunk line that comes up and connects to that big hunk of metal, or there has to be something wrong with the duct somewhere where, like, maybe it's leaking.

空气泄漏出来后，外面的热空气和管道里吹的冷空气形成温差，管道某个地方裂开了，砰的一下就产生冷凝，然后霉菌就开始在里面生长了。

The air is leaking, and so you've got temperature differentials, hot air outside, cold air blowing through the duct, and there's a split in the duct somewhere, and so boom, it creates condensation, and you start to get mold growth in there.

但如果你没这个问题，那你就只是想把管道里的灰尘清理干净。

If you don't have that problem though, then you're really just looking to clean the dust out inside the ductwork.

对。

Mhmm.

因为这些灰尘里可能藏着霉菌和细菌。

Because within that dust, you could have mold and bacteria.

没错。

Right.

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好的。

Okay.

所以我们有了那个吸尘器。

So we got the ace vac.

还有那些鸭子。

We got the ducks.

现在我们来讲过滤系统。

Now we've brought up filtration.

嗯，行。

Okay.

那我有个问题。

So here's the question.

说到过滤，我家啊，天哪，他们跟我说有七八个滤芯，每三十到六十天就得换一个。

In terms of filtration, like, my house has, man, I don't even know, seven, eight filters that they told me to change every thirty to to sixty days.

你指的是这个吗？

Is that what you're talking about?

还是说你指的是空调系统里那种特别的滤网？

Or is there some sort of special filter with the HVAC in particular in that area that you're talking about?

我确实用的是特殊滤网，但你说得没错。

I mean, I have a special filter, but what you're talking about is true.

对的。

Uh-huh.

你家可能到处都装了这种滤网格栅，

You could you probably have these filter grills throughout your

房子啊，是啊。

house Oh, yeah.

到处都是。

Everywhere.

天花板上、墙上，哪儿都有。

That are in your ceilings, in your walls, whatever.

得搬个大梯子才能换，是啊。

Require a big ass ladder and every Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我请装修师傅来做，这种活儿我不自己搞。

My handyman to do it because I don't do that type thing.

你听我说，你听我说。

Listen, listen.

这确实是一种办法。

That's that's one way to do it.

你干脆别搞那些滤网格子了，直接在主机上装个高质量的过滤器，嗯，这样更好。

You could just abandon all that and get a really good filter installed at the unit Uh-huh.

如果空间允许的话，那效果会好得多。

If you've got the room for it, and that would be much better quality.

你可以换个角度想想。

So think about it from this perspective.

如果我家到处都是滤网格子，每个都装上滤芯，那最多也就只能用到MERV 13级别的滤网了。

If I've got filter grills all over my house and I put filters in there, I'm really not gonna be able to do better than a MERFE 13 filter in there.

对。

Mhmm.

但就连那个也可能靠不住。

And even that could be questionable.

会严重阻碍空气流通，因为你相当于在用吸管吸气。

It's gonna restrict a lot of airflow because you've you're basically you're you're trying to suck air through a straw here.

风管就是那根吸管，而你的手还堵住了一半。

The ductwork is the straw, but you've got your hand partially covering it.

对吧？

Right?

所以空气流通被大大限制了。

So you're restricting a lot of airflow.

你要是想在全屋每个回风口都装上MERV 16的滤网，系统肯定扛不住。

You're not gonna be able to put like a MERV 16 filter in this area throughout every return of your house, or you're gonna probably choke your system.

然后线圈就会结冰。

And then it's just gonna the coil will freeze.

那可就麻烦大了。

That'll be its own nightmare.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

所以你最好在设备那儿装个过滤装置，因为那地方空间大，气流更容易分散，这样就没问题。

So you would benefit from installing something at the unit because you can go way higher because it's obviously a built or a bigger chamber, so you can disperse the airflow through it Mhmm.

根本不用担心会把系统憋住。

Without having to worry about choking the system essentially.

而且还能更有效地过滤掉更小的颗粒物。

And you could actually benefit from getting a smaller particle removed from that.

还有个好处是，如果你选我推荐的那种滤网，两年到三年才换一次。

And then you nice thing is, like, if you went with a filter I like, you would change it every two to three years.

能用这么久。

That's how long it lasts.

那你就能把那些东西还有梯子全扔了，梯子直接放在车库里，再也不用操心了。

And then you would be able to ditch all those things and the ladders and just leave your ladders in your garage and not have to worry about it anymore.

这么多，简直荒唐到家了。

It it is ridiculous how many there are.

我记得我们刚看这房子的时候，因为是新房，我就在想：‘这玩意儿啥时候开始这么多的？’

I I remember when we were walking through because it's a new house and I was going, what the what the like, since when?

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我早就习惯了，毕竟我以前在爱荷华住，那地方根本不用怎么换滤网。

Like, I'm used to it, like because I lived in Iowa and it's like you change it very infrequently.

是的。

Yeah.

你瞧，楼下暖气和空调一体机那儿就完事了，就一个地方。

You know, right downstairs where the heater and the the air conditioner is and that's it.

但这儿不一样，你得装两个空调，分别管房子的不同区域，比如我们卧室跟其他地方是分开控温的。

But, you know, here, it's like you got two air conditioners and they're two different parts of the house that like, our bedroom functions separately than the rest of the house.

对。

Right.

有太多东西了，人们根本意识不到，压根不会多想，可它们正在毁健康、毁生活。

So many things there that I think people wouldn't be clueless about, that would never even think twice about, that are just wrecking health, just damaging lives.

说到霉菌，接下来我想聊聊怎么检测霉菌，你具体是怎么做的？

So when it comes to mold, and then I'm gonna shift to like detection of molds, what do your recommended ways of going about that and what you exact exactly do.

你能说说霉菌会对人、孩子、宠物造成哪些问题吗？有哪些明显征兆？严重起来会到什么地步？

But can you talk about different problems that mold will cause a person, a child, a pet, like telltale signs, and then how bad it could potentially get.

在深入之前，我得先说一件特别重要的事。

I wanna say one thing really importantly first Please.

在讲这个之前。

Before I get into that.

你看美国的体系，政府那些系统，全都是七零八落、各自为政的。

If we look at America and our systems, our government systems, they're all disjointed and discombobulated.

CDC到现在还建议人们用漂白剂。

The CDC is telling people to still use bleach.

环保署却在提醒大家：别用漂白水。

The EPA is telling people, please don't use bleach.

各个州的卫生部门网站说法还都不一样。

And, all the different state health department websites are all saying different things.

这让人根本搞不清楚，到底该听谁的、该怎么做。

And so it makes it very difficult for people to wrap their head around, what do I do?

我觉得，现在比以往任何时候都更清楚了——我们的政府在保护我们这方面，往往反应太慢。

And I feel like today more than ever, we're starting to wake up like, hey, our government might be slow to regulate things for our benefit.

还有别——

And Don't

别轻易开始。

start it.

那里面可能有不少坑。

You know, there might be some problems there.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

关键是，很遗憾，这方面的科学研究进展一直很慢，主要是因为政府过去没怎么拨款研究这个课题，直到疫情之后才开始有所改变。

And the big thing about this is is that, unfortunately, the science has been really slow to evolve, mainly because the government hasn't been appropriating a whole lot of funds to study this subject, started to sort of change after COVID.

对吧？

Right?

我们这才意识到，天啊，居然有东西能通过空气传播，比我们看得见的还要小，还可能伤害到我们。

We started to realize, wow, there's something that can travel through the air that could be smaller than what I can see that could potentially harm me.

对吧？

Right?

这可以说是第一个真正引起重视的类似概念。

It was, like, sort of the first big idea in that direction.

现在政府开始增加投入了。

Now we're we're appropriating more funds.

现在我们才慢慢看到一些成果。

Now we're starting to see things.

现在研究结果开始陆续出来了。

We're start the research is starting to come out.

我的意思是，其实有很多积极的进展。

I mean, there a lot of beneficial things happening.

NIH去年九月更新过一次报告，我记得是2025年。

The NIH did an update, I think it was September 2025.

对。

Mhmm.

这清单没把霉菌所有危害都列全，但至少是朝着正确方向迈了一步。

And it's not a comp it's not a complete list of the dangers of of what mold can do, but it's a step in the right direction.

在那篇报告之前，从政府的角度看，我们手头最好的数据也就只是说霉菌会引发哮喘。

See, previous to that paper, you know, really from a government perspective, the best data that we really had was mold causes asthma.

对。

Right.

那时候他们最多就承认到这个程度，对吧？

And that was sort of all they were willing to sort of say, right?

虽然早就有很多医学期刊和论文在讨论霉菌毒素和它们的毒性作用有多危险，但我们可能知道，也可能不知道——说不定在这档播客里我们才第一次意识到：FDA其实早就知道霉菌毒素有害，也在努力管控食品里的这类物质。

Even though there were so many medical journals and papers out there that were really talking about mycotoxins and the toxigenic effects of those and how that's problematic, we know or maybe maybe we don't know, maybe we're finding this out right now for the first time on this podcast, but the FDA regulates or I don't know how they regulate this, but they know mycotoxins are are bad, and they're trying to regulate it in the food supply.

我说‘努力’，是因为我觉得他们根本没法在所有地方都严格执行，但至少他们心里有数，也定了一些指导标准，尽量把霉菌毒素从我们的食物里排除掉。

I say try because I don't see how they could possibly enforce this in all particular areas, but at least they know about it and they set some guidelines to prevent mycotoxins in our food supply as best as possible.

我们知道咖啡里现在还是有这个问题。

We know it's a problem in coffee still.

花生、花生酱、坚果这些食物里也一直有这问题。

We know it's a problem in peanuts and peanut butter and nuts and things of that nature.

但至少他们在从好几个不同角度着手解决这事，也不是完全没动静。

But, you know, we're they're at least, you know, have some different angles of which they've been working at it.

但从空气品质的角度来看，这事儿简直像完全被忽略了。

But from an air quality perspective, it's like, you know, it was like completely missing.

直到今天，政府网站上的相关数据还是这样。

The data on these government websites was even still to this day.

零零散散，乱七八糟的。

It's very disjointed, discombobulated.

NIH 出来说了，这玩意儿会致癌。

The NIH came out and said, hey, it can cause cancer.

我的意思是，‘癌’这个字，以前谁都不敢明说。

I mean, just the big c word is something that really nobody would have ever wanted to admit.

没错。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

终于，他们承认了：这东西会致癌。

Finally, they're like, This can cause cancer.

可问题是，他们为啥现在才说？

Now, why they come out and say that?

其实我们早就有证据了，霉菌毒素确实会致癌。

Well, because we already had the evidence that mycotoxins can cause cancer.

霉菌会产生霉菌毒素。

Mold produces mycotoxins.

这正是我们在食品中管控它的一大难题。

That's one of the big problems with regulating it in our food supply.

但我们一直没从室内空气质量的角度谈过霉菌毒素的暴露问题，因为很不幸，如果墙里长了霉，而这种霉又能产毒素，那我们就有可能接触到它。

However, we haven't been talking about mycotoxin exposure from an air quality perspective in our homes because, unfortunately, if we have mold in our walls and that mold is a mycotoxin producing mold, then there is a potential that it could produce mycotoxins, and there is a potential that we could be exposed to that.

不过，我不是想吓唬人，只是希望我们能掌控这种情况，让霉菌毒素的暴露量保持在正常范围内。

Now, again, not to cause fear or panic, but we wanna be able to control that, and we wanna have our mycotoxin exposure to be within normal ranges.

我们不希望暴露得太多。

We don't wanna go out and have too much exposure.

我们希望这事能由我们自己说了算。

We want this to be something that we can be in control of.

可如果我们连信息都没得到，又怎么掌控呢？

Well, how could we be in control of it if we haven't been given the information?

我特别感激，说实话，刚听说的时候我都惊了，因为我想，我都为这事奋斗十几年了。

So I was so appreciative, and quite honestly, I was shocked when it first happened because I was like, you know, I've been I've been fighting this for nerdeen years.

终于，这些信息总算能见光了，目的就是为了帮到大家。

And, you know, finally, you know, it kinda felt like the the information was was seeing the light of day in the name of being able to help people.

对吧？

Right?

我跟你说，过去十四年里，我面对过的怀疑者可多了去了。

Because I'll tell you, over the past fourteen years, if you wanted to know how many skeptics I've been in front of, I mean, a few.

我经常坐到人家厨房的台子上，跟他们说：根据你的检测结果，我觉得你真该采取点行动了。

Because I would sit down at people's kitchen counters and being like, hey, based upon your levels, I think you should probably take some action.

人家就问：这病真有那么严重吗？还是别的原因？我就总说：你知道吗？

And it's like, well, is this illness really bad, or is it something else, or and I always said, you know what?

你不用非得信我的话。

You don't have to take my word for it.

对吧？

Right?

我建议你先离开家，出去度个周末。

I want you to go leave your house, and I want you to go away for the weekend.

如果你一离开家就觉得舒服了，一回家就又难受了，症状一回家就加重，那你就该想想，是不是家里有什么东西在作怪。

And if you notice you feel better when you're out of your house, then you feel worse when you're in your house and your symptoms flare up when you're in your house, you might wanna start thinking that maybe the trigger is in your house.

没错。

Right.

可能是这个在引发你的症状。

Maybe this is triggering your symptoms.

我可不敢说它直接导致你的症状，因为‘导致’、‘引发’、‘相关’这些词，我不是医生，也不敢乱下定论。

I'm not gonna say it's causing your symptoms because causation and triggering and correlation, right, these are words that I would as someone who's not a doctor, it's not something I get into.

但如果你一离开家就觉得舒服，一回到家症状就冒出来，那你就真该好好想想怎么处理你家的问题了。

But if you feel better outside your house and you come back into your house and you get triggered by these symptoms, well then maybe you might wanna do something with your house.

谁能想到呢，对吧？

Who Who would've thought, right?

这一直是我们前进的方向。

And that's sort of been the guiding light.

但当2025年9月那篇论文出来，说它会致癌、引发神经退行性疾病——比如脑雾，还提到它会导致炎症和哮喘，甚至说霉菌会对人体多个系统造成影响时，那真是个重大突破。

But when this paper came out in September 2025 and it said it can cause cancer, neurodegenerative disease, right, neurodegenerative issues like brain fog, when it said that it can cause inflammation and asthma, and it started to talk about the multisystemic issues that mold can have on the human body, that was a huge win.

对啊。

Yeah.

这对公众来说真是个重大突破，现在他们总算能做点什么了，对吧？

And it was a huge win for the public because now they could do something about that, right?

当NIH出来发声，那些原本犹豫不决的医生——到底这事儿是不是真的，该不该重视——现在总算有了权威依据可以参考了。

And when the NIH comes out and says this, now doctors who have been unsure of like, is this real, is it not, do I look at this or do I not, now they have something that they can look at that's a credible body of information.

我觉得这真的特别重要。

And I think that is so important.

我有个同事叫布兰登·查波，他是‘改变空气基金会’的公共政策总监，他跟我说最近刚跟CDC和环保署碰过面，想推动他们更新官网信息，毕竟大家都是上那儿查资料的。

You know, a colleague of mine, Brandon Chapo, he's a director of public policy for Change the Air Foundation, he was telling me that he met with the CDC and the EPA recently about, you know, trying to get some change going on the websites because, you know, that's where these people go for information.

咱们得有准确靠谱的信息才行。

We've got to have good accurate information.

他特兴奋地打电话给我，说：‘嘿，我不确定他们最后会咋办，但至少他们意识到自己那套信息太老掉牙了，现在正考虑更新呢。'

And, you know, he called me all excited and was like, Hey, you know, look, I don't know what they're gonna do, but they did realize that their information's a bit archaic and they are looking into, you know, updating it and stuff like that.

我觉得这事儿特别美好、特别有力量，因为说实话，人们太依赖政府来推动改变了，这其实挺让人难过的。

And I think, to me, that's a really beautiful and powerful thing because, you know, it's, I think it's one of those sad things that people rely so much on the government to be this maker of change.

但你要是真懂政府是怎么运作的，就会知道它永远比现实慢了二十年。

But when you understand how the government works, it's twenty years behind the change.

真正让人学到东西的，是像你们这样的先驱者和平台。

It's pioneers and platforms like yours where people actually get to learn things.

因为只有那些真正在意、亲眼看到、用心观察的人，才会说：这里有问题。

Because it's the people that care, that see things with their own eyes, that can observe, that say, there's a problem here.

真正推动改变的，是这些人，而不是政府。

And it's that that really creates that change, not the government.

你看看埃隆·马斯克，他搞的SpaceX，还有他打造的那些技术。

Look what Elon Musk has done with SpaceX and all the technologies he's built.

他才是真正激发了变革的人。

He has inspired change.

那些能自主起飞又自动返航的火箭，可不是政府搞出来的。

The government didn't develop these rockets that could take off and land themselves back.

电动车也不是政府发明的。

The government didn't develop the electric vehicle.

我们不能指望政府替我们创新、替我们撑腰，尤其是当那些大公司动不动就砸几百万美元，买通选举结果的时候。

We cannot expect the government to innovate for us or to have our back, especially when these massive companies, they pay millions of dollars to choose who they want to win these elections.

太离谱了，还得依赖那些人——像你说的，他们有三个网站，每个网站内容都不一样，可其实打个电话给IT人员，改个句子就能搞定的事。

It's rough and being dependent on people that, like you said, they've got three different websites with three different things when it would take one call to an IT person to make a simple sentence change.

我是说，真的假的？

I mean, seriously.

你一提这种事，他们就跟天塌了一样，好像改个事实信息是全世界最难的事似的。

It's it they act like when you ask of something like that, like, it is just the most difficult thing on the planet to make happen, to to change something factual.

最让我寒心的就是这种漠不关心，他们整天操心的、讨论的、互相扯皮的，全是一些根本无关紧要的东西。

And that is the most disturbing thing that I can even imagine, that lack of care and the things that they actually worry about and talk about and bicker about amongst each other.

他们根本算不上榜样。

They're not role models.

压根儿就没什么值得人效仿的地方。

They're not anything of any kind whatsoever that anybody should model their life after.

这可不是在攻击政府。

And this is not a government attack.

这纯粹是事实。

This is a fact.

这就是我为什么做我这份工作的原因，因为每个人都有自己的角色。

This is why I've done what I do because everybody's got a role.

你的角色很明显，就是你现在在做的事。

Your role clearly is what you're doing.

你是在帮人看清自己生活中某个有害的方面，然后想办法去改善它。

It is helping people to see and realize an aspect of their lives that is detrimental that you're trying to fix.

我的角色就是把你这样的人带到台前，帮你把信息准确地传达出去，和你来回沟通、引导、问对问题。

My role is to get people like you in front of people and to be able to convey the message properly, going back and forth with you and teaching and asking the right questions.

大家到底在纠结啥？

What's everybody's problem?

他们说的问题到底是什么？

And what are they saying that's the problem?

不是那些人身攻击。

Not the personal attacks.

真正核心的问题到底在哪？

What is the what is the main problem?

你知道主要问题出在哪吗？

You know what the main problem is?

就是糊涂。

Confusion.

很简单。

It's simple.

就是糊涂。

It's confusion.

那些真正提问、没在网上的乱喷乱骂的人，其实都搞不清楚。

The people that are actually asking genuine questions that aren't bitching and running their mouth online, they're confused.

对啊。

Oh, yeah.

你刚说的是什么？

And what did you just say?

你本来该去获取信息的地方，现在搞得一团乱。

The place where you're supposed to get your information, It's confusing.

然后他们还挑拨所有人互相敌对，说你不能听这个人、不能信那个人，可你自己连网站二十年都没更新过。

And then they turn everybody against each other and say you can't listen to this person or that person when you can't even update your website for twenty years.

没错。

That's right.

那你到底该听谁的？

Who do you listen to then?

我会听像你这样每天真刀真枪干一线、把一辈子都扑在这上面的人。

I would listen to the guy like you that's in the trenches every single day and has spent their life's work doing it.

我不是想跑题，但真想把这点拎出来讲讲。

So I just I don't want to go off topic, but I want to spotlight that.

谁要是因为咱们没一长串头衔、没被资本收买，就来质疑咱们的可信度，那根本站不住脚。

So anybody that attacks anybody that comes on here's credibility because we don't have 75 letters after our name that's bought and paid for.

那不是他们的错，他们只是被上面的人教什么，就照着教，拿什么钱就说什么话。

That doesn't mean anything because they're getting taught what they're the people above them are telling them to teach and what they're paid to teach them.

学校里那些老师，本身没毛病。

It's not the fault of the person in school.

真正想当医生去救人的那些人，根本没错。

It's not the fault of the person that genuinely went to be a doctor to save lives.

错的是学校和他们所学的那些人。

It's the school and the people they're learning from.

你这么做真的太了不起了，天天亲力亲为，跟真实的人打交道，亲眼看到、亲身体会。

So what you've done is so commendable because you do it every day and you talk with real people and you see it and you learn it.

接下来我想聊的正是这个，我知道怎么自然地引出来。

And that's what I want to get into next because I know how to lead into something.

你到底在做些什么？

What you do.

那个家庭清洁、灰尘检测包、这些测试，到底是什么东西？

What exactly is the home cleanse, the dust kit, these tests?

你具体是干什么的？

What is it that you actually do?

你觉得每家每户都该至少做一次吗？还是你先给我讲清楚到底怎么回事？

And is it something that you feel like every single home should do at least once or what's just explain it.

这跟我做不做生意没关系，关键是要搞清楚：做这件事的根本目的和原因到底是什么？为什么非做不可？

Not from this is my business and whatever, like, for the perspective of actually what's the purpose and the reason for this, and why is it imperative?

我们的目标就是打造一套完整的解决方案，终结因环境恶劣和品质低下导致的慢性病痛苦。

So the purpose is to create an end to end solution to end the suffering of chronic illness created by poor and to rare quality.

这就是我们的宗旨。

That's the purpose.

说白了，这目标其实很简单。

It's a very simple purpose.

只是我们提供的服务随着时间慢慢演变成了现在这样。

It's a what the business offering has evolved over time.

每次我遇到帮不上人的瓶颈，才发现问题出在你刚才说的那个词——困惑。

Because every time I would hit a wall in being able to help somebody, I realized that the wall was created by the word that you said earlier, confusion.

太多人其实都一头雾水。

A lot of people are confused.

我可以坐在你家厨房的餐桌旁，指着纸上的数据，一步步告诉你该怎么改。

I can sit down with you at your kitchen table, and I can show you numbers on a page, and I can show you how you should do something about that.

现代医学其实特别厉害，我们可以准确地把家里某种霉菌和它在你体内产生的毒素对应起来，告诉你：嘿，你真该采取点行动了。

And you could even go to the modern medicine's amazing, by the way, because we can actually correlate specific molds in a home and the specific toxins that those molds produce in your body to show you, hey, you may wanna take action.

但最终采取行动的，还得是你自己。

You still have to be the one to take the action.

我没法逼你行动，但我希望能帮你搞清楚该怎么做，而且是做对的事。

I can't force you to take action, but I wanna educate you on taking action and taking the right action.

我觉得这特别关键。

And I think that's really important.

我们遇到的一个问题是，我离开你家厨房后，大多数人会去问几个朋友、听听不同意见——这本来挺好的。

One of the problems that we ran into is I would leave your kitchen counter, and most people that call a few people and get some opinions, I think is a really important thing.

但在这个行业里，你要是问三个人，准能得到三种完全不一样的说法，这正是问题的一部分。

However, in this industry, if you call three different people, you are gonna get three wildly different opinions, and that is definitely part of the problem.

我给你举个例子。

I'll give you an example.

你家窗户漏水了。

You've got a leaking window.

我跟你说啊。

I'm gonna tell you, hey.

你得把这窗户周围拆开。

You gotta open up around this window.

得把被污染的保温材料和石膏板全拆了。

We gotta pull out that contaminated insulation, the contaminated drywall.

后面木头上面肯定都长霉了。

We're gonna have mold growing on the lumber behind it.

得把木头上的霉彻底清理掉。

We have to remove the mold from the lumber.

对吧？

Right?

还得弄清楚窗户为啥会漏。

We have to see what why the window is leaking in the first place.

是防水没做好吗？

Is it poor flashing?

你知道吧，肯定有什么地方让水渗进来了。

You know, something is occurring that's allowing the water to come in.

咱们得把这问题彻底解决掉。

We have to make sure that's corrected.

对吧？

Right?

这活儿吧，说白了就是得花力气干。

So it's it's a bit of a elbow grease type process.

可惜啊，没啥捷径可走。

There's no, unfortunately, magic solution.

我跟你说实话。

I'm gonna tell you that.

你一听就明白这道理。

You're gonna say it makes sense.

我跟你说说我觉得这事儿得花多少钱。

I'm gonna tell you what I think it's gonna cost.

你肯定会想，行吧。

You're gonna be like, okay.

我觉得这挺有道理的。

I think that makes sense.

我要走了。

I'm gonna leave.

你会让别人来接手。

You're gonna have somebody else come in.

他们肯定会说，这人疯了吧。

They're gonna say, well, that guy's crazy.

你真没必要这么干。

You don't have to do that.

我得喷点雾。

I gotta fog.

咱们直接喷点雾就解决了，老兄。

We could just fog it away, man.

咱们花三分之一的价钱，直接喷一喷就完事了。

We could just for, like, a third of the price, we could just fog it away.

我说啊，你花三分之一的价钱是省了，但连三分之一的效果都别想有。

And I'd say, you know, you could spend a third of that price, but you won't even get a third of the value.

没错。

Right.

因为那霉菌可不是一喷就没了的。

Because that mold is not gonna just disappear.

当初让它长起来的那些条件，现在还都在那儿呢。

The conditions that allowed it to grow in the first place are still present.

这喷雾根本没法深入墙里、保温层里，把霉菌彻底清除掉。

This fog is not perpetuating walls and insulation and removing and eradicating mold from those surfaces.

根本不行。

It's not.

这可是活的东西。

This is a living organism.

你就想想，墙里头长出杂草来了，

I just want you to think about, like, you've got weeds growing in your walls.

你真觉得喷点除草剂就能把它弄死？

You think spraying some weed killer on it's gonna kill it?

你觉得这真能解决问题，还是杂草转头又长回来？

You think it's really gonna take care of the problem, or your weed's gonna come right back?

谁在后院用过除草剂，结果杂草又冒出来的？举个手。

Raise your hand if you've used weed killer in the backyard and if the weeds came back.

来吧，各位，

Come on, guys.

这根本不是办法。

This is not the solution.

对啊。

Right.

真正的办法是把它连根拔掉，把问题根源解决了。

Solution is to to remove it and solve the problem.

但如果你是个坐在厨房台子前的普通人，一个人跟你说价格是三倍，另一个人却说只有三分之一，这肯定让你糊涂。

But if you're a guy sitting at a kitchen counter and one guy's telling you it's three x the price, another guy's telling you it's a third of the price, that's gonna cause confusion.

你知道那个人会怎么说吗？

And you know what that guy's gonna say?

他会说，那个叫迈克尔·鲁比诺的人，是在坑你。

He's gonna tell you, that guy, Michael Rubino, is trying to take advantage of you.

当你看到一个只有三分之一价格的方案时，确实很容易被说动，可一旦不管用，你又会打电话给我，道歉说：‘真对不起’。

Well, it's very easy for you to be convinced of that when you've got a solution that's a third of the price, except when it doesn't work and then you call me back and you apologize and you say, I'm really sorry.

我花了他三分之一的钱，结果一点用都没有。

I spent a third of that guy and it didn't work.

这种事儿其实天天都在发生。

But these situations happen all the time.

对啊。

Sure.

一堆人忙着推销各种产品和方案，可他们根本没抓住我们真正该做的事。

And you've got all these different people trying to sell some product or solution, but they're missing the actual point of what we need to do.

关键是把问题的根源找出来，然后彻底解决。

And it's to remove the issue, the source of the problem, and then correct it.

没办法，咱们只能在家做手术了，你知道的吧？

We have to, unfortunately, do surgery in the home, you know?

这就像动脉在出血。

You've got a bleeding artery.

光给你一片止痛药，指望它自己好，可不行。

Can't just give you a pain pillar and just hope for the best.

咱们得把问题真正修好，对吧？

We've got to fix it, right?

所以情况就是这样。

And so that's sort of the situation.

明白了这些之后，我意识到好几件事，也正因如此，我才开始逐步完善这个端到端的解决方案。

So in realizing all of that, I realized a couple different things, which is why I started to evolve the end to end solution.

行业里本来就充满怀疑和竞争，每个人都在拼命推销自己的产品或方案。

We've got the skepticism and the competitive nature of the industry itself on trying to sell their solution or product.

问题的另一面是，检测这一块简直一塌糊涂，根本没什么统一标准。

You've got the other side of issue as well, is the inspection side is absolutely terrible in terms of like having a standard.

我来跟你解释为什么。

I'm gonna explain why.

如果我让别人来我家做检测，十有八九他们会用一种叫空气采样的技术。

If I let somebody come into my house and do an inspection, more often than not, they're gonna rely on a technology called air sampling.

对。

Mhmm.

我不是说要全盘否定空气采样这技术。

Now, I'm not suggesting me throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

我只是想让大家明白，从初步筛查的角度来看，这简直是最差劲的工具，而且大家还老是用错。

I just want people to understand from a screening tool perspective, it's the worst screening tool you could possibly use and it is used as a screening tool incorrectly all the time.

我举个例子给你听。

Let me give you an example.

他们会架个三脚架，然后采样。

They'll set up a tripod Mhmm.

然后会连一个泵，泵上还带着一个小的空气采样盒。

And there'll be a pump and there'll be a little air cassette on that pump.

他们通常会把设备放在房间正中央。

They'll usually do it in the center of a room.

对。

Mhmm.

咱们就假设一个普通的房间，十英尺乘十英尺，层高八英尺。

Let's just say the average size room is 10 by 10 with eight foot ceilings.

你觉得这个说法合理吗？

Would you agree with that?

是的。

Yeah.

差不多吧。

Pretty much.

行。

Okay.

所以是一个10乘10英尺、层高8英尺的房间。

So 10 by 10 room with eight foot ceilings.

这台机器能采集75升空气。

This machine collects 75 liters of air.

准确说，是75升空气流经了它。

Well, 75 liters of air passed through it.

它会把这75升空气里的颗粒物收集起来。

It collects the particles within that 75 liters of air.

颗粒的大小得刚刚好，得能通过那个小孔，再落到载玻片上，方便实验室分析。

Particles of a very specific size because it has to fit inside the hole and it has to then get into the slide so it could be analyzed in a lab.

明白吗？

Okay?

说了这么多，就是75升空气。

With all that being said, 75 liters of air.

再回到那个10乘10、层高8英尺的房间，你觉得里面大概有多少升空气？

Now, going back to that 10 by 10 room with eight foot ceilings, how many liters of air do you think are in

有多少？

there?

完全没概念。

No idea.

我知道是因为我查过。

I only know it because I looked it up.

超过两万两千升空气。

Over 22,000 liters of air.

行吧。

Alright.

如果你在听这个，赶紧拿个计算器，算一下75除以22000。

Now, if you're listening to this, I want you to get out of calculator and I want you to do 75 divided by 22,000.

不到1%。

It is less than 1%.

所以用这种技术，顺便说一句，很多做这行的会收你两千五百美元。

So we are basically with that technology, and by the way, what a lot of these guys do, they charge you like $2,500.

我来跟你说说他们的商业模式。

I'm gonna tell you the business model.

他们会在房子里头搞四五个甚至六七个空气采样点。

They do like four or five or six of these air samples across the house.

明白吗？

Okay?

可能是卧室，也可能是浴室、客厅，反正哪儿都行，随便采几个点。

Maybe the bedroom, maybe, you know, the bathroom, the living room, wherever, you know, wherever they they just do this.

很多人根本没认真检查，就是随便摆个设备完事。

A lot of them don't do a really good job inspecting, they just kinda set this up.

这生意太赚钱了，他们当然乐意干。

It's profitable for them, that's why they Of do course.

自从这技术一出来，空气检测就一直是行业金标准。

And air testing has been the gold standard for as long as the technology really came out.

所以我们现在干的事，就像拿一滴水做分析，然后跟人说：别担心，整片海洋都干净。

And so, what we're doing is we're basically taking a drop of water and analyzing one drop of water and then telling people, don't worry, the whole ocean is good.

咱们就得这么看这事儿。

That's how we have to look at this.

结果这事儿对很多人来说变得特别棘手。

And so, that became so freaking problematic for people.

老有人给我打电话说：嘿，我最近老不舒服。

I would have people call me up and say, Hey, I don't feel well.

但我确定这跟霉菌没关系。

I know it's not mold though.

我猜可能是VOCs或者其他什么东西。

I'm thinking maybe it's VOCs or some other things.

想请你帮忙看看，给个第二意见。

Would love a second opinion on this.

我就说：行吧，明白。

And I'm like, okay, yeah.

那你为啥觉得不是霉菌呢？

So why do you think it's not mold?

我就是随便问问。

Just out of curiosity.

我不是总觉得是霉菌，不过我很好奇，你为啥觉得不是霉菌呢？

Just because I always I don't always think it's mold, by the way, but I'm just curious why do you think it's not mold?

因为我做了空气检测。

Oh, because I did air testing.

不错啊。

Okay, good.

能把检测报告发我看看吗？

Can you send me those that report?

我一看，有六个空气样本。

And I look at it, it's six air samples.

哦，这样啊。

I'm like, oh, okay.

通常照片里能看见，他们都会拍下仪器摆放的位置。

You can see in the photograph usually, they'll take a picture of, like, where the machine is.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

然后我看到它放在房间正中央。

Then I see it's in the center of the room.

周围根本没有风扇之类的东西。

There's no fans or anything like that.

他们根本不是在故意搅动空气来取样。

It's not like they're trying to stir up the air and then get a sample.

就是普通的环境空气采样。

It's just ambient air sample.

我就想，哦，明白了。

And I'll be like, Okay.

那房间有多大？

How big is that room?

哦，那房间大概是22乘10，或者22乘12吧。

Oh, it's 22 by 10, you know, 22 by 12.

好，明白了。

Okay, good.

所以房间里大概有四万升空气，我们只测了75升，就断定整个空间都达标了。

So we've got like 40,000 liters of air inside that space, and we've analyzed 75 of it, and we're saying the whole space is good.

他们就说：这说不通啊。

And they're like, well, that doesn't make sense.

我就说：我知道这确实说不通。

And I'm like, I know it doesn't make sense.

顺便说一句，这些报告上都写得明明白白，一切完美。

And by the way, these reports say everything's perfect.

房子没问题。

The house is fine.

大概在2013年或者2015年左右吧，我偶然发现了一个叫IRMI检测的技术。

So, there was a technology, it was probably 2013 or 'fifteen, somewhere around there, that I stumbled upon what's called an IRMI test.

ERMI测试呢，其实就是环境霉菌污染指数的缩写。

And an ERMI test is essentially well, the ERMI stands for the environmental relative moldiness index.

这个测试用的是叫MSQ-PCR的技术，跟当年新冠做鼻拭子用的PCR原理差不多。

This test basically uses a technology called MSQ PCR, similar to the PCR COVID times, the nose swabs.

但这可不是鼻拭子。

This isn't a nose swab, though.

这是靠收集灰尘做的样本。

This is a dust collection sample.

就像PCR一样，如果你不懂，简单说就是把东西放进去，然后就能比对出结果。

And just like PCR, if you don't know what it is, you basically can put something in it and then just match something.

你可以设置一组引物，告诉机器：嘿，我想找36种不同的霉菌。

You have these primers that go into the machine that tell you, I don't know, you wanna look for 36 different species of mold?

你就能把这36种霉菌的基因信息都加进去。

You can put 36 different species of mold in there.

然后拿块布，把布放进去检测就行。

Then you can take a cloth, and then you can put the cloth in there.

其实就是那块布上沾的灰尘。

Basically, the dust from that cloth.

如果灰尘里有霉菌，就能和里面的引物匹配出来。

If it has mold in it, you can match it with the primers that are there.

整个过程就是这么回事。

That's really how it works.

如果你想检测新冠，就把新冠的引物放进去，做个鼻拭子，再把样本放进去，看看有没有新冠。

So if you wanted to check for COVID, you'd put COVID in it, and you'd do a nose swab, then you put that in there and see if there's COVID.

要是有新冠，系统就会匹配到。

If there's COVID, we've we've got a match.

这话题跟咱们现在说的完全不一样，我也不想深聊，但技术原理就是这样的。

Totally different topic, and I don't wanna go there, but that's how the technology works.

你放什么进去，它就能匹配什么。

Whatever you put in Right.

完全能对得上。

You can match.

这其实就是一种针对DNA的特异性分析。

It's just a DNA specific analysis.

对吧？

Right?

我后来接触到这项技术，当时和我一起工作的检测人员已经在用了。我一看那些数据，就觉得特别有意思——空气检测结果明明显示一切正常，

So I came across this technology, and, you know, the inspectors I was working with at the time, they were using the technology and there were when I looked at the numbers, it was very interesting because you would have these air tests that would tell you this everything's normal.

但偏偏又冒出一大堆指示性霉菌。

But then you would have like all these indicator molds.

顺便说一下，所谓指示性霉菌，就是那些特别喜欢潮湿环境的霉菌。

Indicator molds by the way, they mean these molds that are typically more water reactive, hydrophilic molds.

如果房子没受过水损，这些霉菌根本长不出来。

These molds cannot grow if the home is not water damaged.

要是房子没漏水发霉，环境中根本不可能出现它们的源头。

Like, you can't have them as sources in the environment if the house is not water damaged.

当然，不排除你从外面把它们带进来的可能。

Doesn't mean you can't carry it from outside to inside or something like that.

对吧？

Right?

如果你只看到一个孢子，你可能会想，哦，可能是从外面带进来的。

And if you saw one spore, you'd be like, Okay, it could have came in from outside.

但是

But

但如果你看到成千上万个，你就知道，不对，这肯定不只是我带进来的量。

if you start seeing thousands, you're like, Nah, I think it's a little more than I tracked that in.

我们得找找源头了。

We should probably look for a source.

所以我们开发了一个叫‘灰尘检测’的测试，顺便说一下，今天所有听众都能享受这个检测八折优惠。

So we developed a test called the dust test, which by the way, all your listeners are gonna get 20% off that test today.

使用代码 Dylan 就行。

They're gonna use code Dylan.

对。

Yep.