第72期特邀嘉宾史蒂芬·赫西博士！34岁经历心脏病发作后幸存、逆转心脏病、斑块形成的真相、传统与非常规治疗方法探讨等精彩内容！！

然后他们可以把动脉像这样展开，这样你就能看到斑块的位置以及它的厚度。

You can then they, like, stretch out the arteries like this so you can see where the plaque is and and how thick it is.

所以这是一种更精确的描绘方式。

But so it's it's very it's a much more accurate way to depict things.

我现在非常强调这一点：是的，如果你的动脉中有大量钙化斑块，研究表明这与心脏病发作的高风险相关。

Now I am very big on emphasizing that, yes, like, if you have a bunch of calcified plaque in your arteries, the research shows that you that's that's associated with higher risk of having a heart attack.

然而，并非对每个人都适用。

However, that's not true for everybody.

我的冠状动脉钙化评分在心脏病发作前六个月是零。

My CAC score was zero six months before my heart attack.

我的Hardee's Perfect评分显示没有钙化斑块，但我还是心脏病发作了。

I had no calcified plaque on my Hardee's Perfect score, and I still had a heart attack.

所以显然，这里有些事情我们还不理解，至少医学界还不理解。

So, obviously, there's things here we don't understand, or at least medicine doesn't understand.

我认为由于我的发现，我对此有了更多理解，但无论如何，我从CLEARLY扫描中发现的最具革命性的事情不是我的结果（我的结果很好，我对此很高兴），而是当你看到那些影像时，人们会认为这里是动脉，对吧，他们认为斑块是这样在内部形成的，你知道，但事实并非如此。

I like to think that I have a little bit more of an understanding because of the things that I've found, but anyways, the most revolutionary thing that I found from the CLEARLY scan was not my results, which was my results were great, that's I was happy about that, but was when you look at that, when you see the imaging, like, people think that here's, like, here's an artery, right, and they think that the plaque develops on the inside like this, you know, and that's not true.

比如，如果你上网搜索动脉粥样硬化，看到的那些示意图都是这样描绘的，但其实并不准确。

Like, if you go online, you type in atherosclerosis, and you look at these images, that's what all the cartoons kind of depict that, but that's not true.

所以当你观察CLEARLY扫描图像时（无意双关），可以明显看到斑块是从动脉壁内部开始形成的。虽然我们总说斑块在动脉壁里，但它并不是长在动脉内壁上。

So if you look at the CLEARLY images, it's very clear, no pun intended, that the plaque starts in the artery wall, and we always say that, you know, people say, oh yeah, it's in the artery wall, but it's not on the artery wall, like the inside of the artery.

就像这样——如果我的双手代表动脉壁的一侧，斑块最初是这样形成的，然后在动脉壁中层生长，同时向两侧扩张。

So, like, if you you take, like, if my hands together are the artery wall, like one side of the artery wall, plaque starts to form like this, and it grows in the middle of the artery wall, and it expands both ways.

所以并不是说这里有一条平坦的动脉，然后斑块像这样长在它的内壁上。

So it's not like there's a flat artery here and there's plaque developing on the inside of it like that.

这是因为病变发生在动脉的内膜层。

It's doing this because it's happening in the intimal layer of the artery.

所以当你分析斑块时，它实际上是凝血组织。

And so then when you analyze plaque, it's clotting tissue.

这并不是胆固醇或脂肪酸等物质的大量堆积。

It's not this huge accumulation of cholesterol or fatty acids or anything.

斑块主要是凝血组织，有研究表明其占比为87%±8%（具体比例因研究的尸体样本而异），但基本以凝血组织为主。

It's primarily clotting tissue, and there's studies that show that it's 87% plus or minus 8%, but 10 depending on the cadaver they studied, clotting tissue.

那么凝血组织是如何进入动脉壁的呢？

And so how does clotting tissue get into the artery wall?

然后像这样开始扩张。

Like, and then start expanding it like that.

答案来自一位名叫弗拉基米尔·索博廷的科学家，他是一位俄罗斯科学家（我想他是俄罗斯人），他提出了这个精妙的理论：当动脉内壁的这些细胞——称为内皮细胞、血管内皮细胞——存在时。

And the answer comes from this guy named Vladimir Sobotin, who's a Russian scientist, I think he's Russian, who came up with this brilliant theory that whenever so you've got these cells that line in the inner lining of the artery called endothelial cells, vascular endothelial cells.

当它们开始生长或增殖时，本应保持薄薄的一层；而当它们因各种原因（我们可以讨论这些原因）开始增殖时，这些细胞就需要血液供应。

And when they start to grow or proliferate, they're supposed to be this thin layer of them, and when they start to grow, they start to proliferate for various reasons, which we can talk about, then those cells, they need a blood supply.

所有细胞都需要血液供应，对吧？

All cells need a blood supply, right?

但这种血液供应并非来自动脉中央流动的血液。

But that blood supply does not come from the blood flowing down the middle of the artery.

它来自所谓的血管滋养血管（vasa vasorum），这些是为动脉壁供血的动脉。

It comes from what's called the vasa vasorum, which are the arteries that supply the artery walls with blood.

因此当这些细胞在动脉壁中层开始生长增殖时，原本为动脉壁供血的血管就必须向内生长，形成新的血管来为这些新生细胞供血——而在新生血管形成过程中，会产生结构不完整的动脉。

And so when those cells start to grow and proliferate in the middle, the arteries that are supplying the artery wall with blood then have to grow in and create new arteries to get to those new cells, and in the process of growing new arteries, you get arteries that are incomplete.

这些血管正试图自我构建，此时会渗漏血液。当血液渗漏时，会流入动脉壁的内膜层中。由于这些血液已从血管中渗出不再流动，便开始凝结，从而形成这种凝血组织。

They're trying to build themselves up, and they're leaking blood at that point, And when they're leaking blood, the blood kinda flows out into the intimal layer right there in the artery wall, and this blood is no longer flowing because it's leaked out of these vessels, and it starts to clot, and you get this clotting tissue formation.

这正是导致动脉壁扩张的原因。

And that's what causes this expansion of the artery wall.

当时我看到CLEARLY扫描图像时，可以清晰地看到这种情况就发生在动脉壁中，最初并非位于血管腔内。我了解西博廷的研究成果，顿时恍然大悟——就是它了。

And that was, like, when I saw the CLEARLY scan, and I saw that it was you can clearly see it happens in the artery wall like that, and it's not on the in the in the lumen of it, at first anyways, And I knew about Sibotin's work, I was like, ah, this is it.

答案就在这里。

This is it right here.

于是问题就变成了：我们该如何阻止动脉中段内皮细胞的增殖生长？

And so the question then becomes, how do we prevent the proliferation of the growing of endothelial cells, in the middle of the artery?

这正是预防斑块形成的关键。

And that is the answer to preventing plaque.

那么，斑块会导致心脏病发作吗？

Now, does plaque cause heart attacks?

这完全是另一个可以讨论的问题。但如果你想预防斑块，核心在于阻止那些内皮细胞的增殖。

That's a whole another question that we can talk about, but if you wanna prevent plaque, it becomes about stopping that proliferation of those endothelial cells.

我们先来看看这个，因为你提到你的钙化积分为零。

Let's just take a look at this first, because you said you had a zero, zero calcium score.

我想把这个情况告诉大家，因为我认为零分或极低分会给人带来错误的安全感。

Now I wanna convey this to people because I think it gives a false sense of security with a zero score or a very low score.

我大概有个想法，但还是想请你解释一下。

How on earth I think I have an idea, but I want you to explain this.

怎么可能钙化积分为零却出现100%的血管阻塞？

How on earth could you have a zero score and have a 100% blockage?

你能解释这个现象吗？

Can you explain that?

两种情况中的一种。

One of two things.

一是血栓是急性形成的。

One is that the clot formed acutely.

它是瞬间形成的。

It formed instantaneously.

好的。

Okay.

而且它大到足以瞬间完全堵塞整条动脉。

And it was large enough to block the entire artery just like that.

这可能是第一种情况。

That could be the first thing.

所以之前那里没有斑块，或者没有硬斑块，因为这个检测只针对硬斑块。

So there was no plaque there before, or there was no hard plaque there before, because this is just measuring hard plaque.

这个不是...

This is not Yeah.

斑块。

Plaque.

没错。

Exactly.

也可能完全是软斑块造成的堵塞，但我很难相信100%的堵塞形成后竟然没有任何钙化。

It could've just been an entire blockage of soft plaque, but it's hard for me to get it's hard for me to believe that a 100% blockage formed and none of it calcified.

对吧？

Right?

因此我认为这是一个急性情况：血栓形成且体积足够大，发生在人体承受压力最大的动脉——左前降支动脉中。

So it makes me think that there was this acute situation where a clot formed and it was large enough, and it happens in the artery under the most pressure of any artery in the body, which is the left anterior descending artery.

而且该处还有一个转弯，会产生湍流从而诱发凝血。

And there's also a turn there, which creates turbulent blood flow that can induce clotting.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种可能的机制。

That's one potential mechanism.

另一种可能是心肌梗塞前就已存在100%的阻塞。

The other potential mechanism is that that a 100% blockage was there prior to my heart attack.

我们无法验证这点，因为医生手术时看到阻塞就说‘这肯定是他心脏病发作的原因’。

And we have no way of knowing if that's true or not because they went in, and they saw it, and they said, oh, this must be why he's having a heart attack.

但还存在完全不同的机制——幸好我们是从心率变异性和自主神经平衡切入的——因为心肌死亡还可能与心脏接收的神经系统信号失衡有关。

But there's an entirely different mechanism, which is probably good that we started this off with heart rate variability and autonomic balance, because there's a entirely different mechanism of heart tissue death that can happen that has to do with imbalanced nervous system signaling to the heart.

在医学上，他们称这类病例为'马诺卡'现象——即发现患者心脏病发作时血管竟完全畅通无阻。

And in medicine, they call these manokas, where they find people who have heart attacks with no blockage whatsoever.

但我认为这种现象远比医学界认知的更普遍。医生发现血管堵塞时，可能这些堵塞早已存在，只是我们此前从未有过相关数据来验证。而这种失衡的神经系统信号会引发连锁反应，改变心脏代谢，导致乳酸堆积并引发组织死亡——如果你想深入探讨这个机制，我们可以详细展开。

But I think that they're much more common than medicine thinks because they go in and they find the blockages, but maybe the blockages have been there before, and nobody's we've never had any data before to look at them, and that this imbalanced nervous system signaling causes this change in cascade of events that changes metabolism in the heart, causes causes buildup of lactic acid, and causes tissue death, which we can get into the details of that if you want to.

这就是两种不同的发病机制。

But those are the two different mechanisms.

那么他们究竟怎么突发心脏病的？

So how do they have a heart attack?

很可能是这两种情况之一。

Potentially, one of those two things.

当时他们确实放置了支架，清除了血栓并植入支架，但整个时间线有些混乱。

Now they did place a stent, so they opened up, they busted open that clot there and they placed a stent in there and I the timeline is kind of confusing.

整个抢救过程包括导管手术时我都保持清醒，但时间节点很模糊——因为他们在放置支架时几乎同时给我注射了吗啡，所以我究竟是何时开始好转的？

I was awake the entire time during this whole episode and even in the cath lab and everything, but it's confusing because, like, they did that and they gave me morphine at the, almost the exact same time, around the same time, so when did I start feeling better?

我也说不清楚。

I don't know.

吗啡只是让我感觉不到疼痛了吗？

Morphine just stopped me from feeling pain?

是吗啡抑制了我的神经系统反应，从而阻止了那种心肌梗死引发的组织损伤吗？

Did the morphine calm my nervous system response and stop the tissue damage from happening from that type of heart attack?

还是他们通过球囊血管成形术和支架打开了血栓？

Or was it that they opened the clot with a stent, with a balloon angioplasty and a stent?

或是通过给我注射的溶栓酶溶解了血栓？

Or with the clotting enzymes they gave me, bust open the clot.

到底是哪种情况？

Like, what was it?

我不知道。

I don't know.

这个区分很重要，因为它能帮助我们理解心肌梗死的发病机制。

And so it's an important distinction to think about because then it tells us about these mechanisms of heart attacks.

我还有支持这些不同理论的其他证据，包括其他研究者的不同工作成果。

And there's other evidence I have that support these different theories, other different work of different researchers.

我无法具体回答你的问题，但这是心脏病发作的两种潜在机制。

I don't know the answer to your question specifically, but those are two potential mechanisms by which heart attacks can happen.

这就是为什么即使CAC评分为零，也可能因为这类情况引发心脏病。

That's how you can have a heart attack with a zero CAC score is those types of things.

就我个人而言，我认为较高的CAC评分与心脏病发作风险增加相关，但与其内部的斑块无关。

I, personally, I think that having a higher CAC score, it being associated with higher risk of heart attacks, doesn't have anything to do with the plaque in there.

这与动脉壁中存在更硬的斑块、阻碍了血流有关，对吧？

It has to do with the fact that there's harder plaque in the artery wall that is now interrupting blood flow, Right?

我们都知道，就像观察水流绕过河里的石头时，另一侧会形成漩涡。

And we we know that, like, we look at a water flowing past a rock and a river, and the eddy's on the other side.

这种血流扰动会导致凝血反应——自1850年以来我们就知道这个原理，多年来已得到验证。

You know, it creates this disturbance in blood flow, and that disturbance in blood flow, we've known for many years, since 1850, that disturbance in blood flow can cause clotting responses.

所以如果存在这种阻碍血流或造成湍流的斑块，就会增加凝血反应的风险。

And so if you have this plaque in there that's interrupting blood flow or creating turbulent blood flow, that can increase your risk of this clotting response.

因此我认为这就是较高CAC评分与之相关的原因。

So I think that's why the higher CAC scores are associated with that.

这并不意味着如果你出现脱水、血液粘稠（就像我经历的那样）就不会发生这种情况。

It doesn't mean it can't happen if you have dehydration, sludgy blood, which is what I was going through.

如果出现急性炎症性的应激反应，许多不同因素都可能诱发这些凝血反应。

If have a stress response that's acutely inflammatory, lots of different things can cause the predisposes to these clotting responses.

但我也是坚决主张这绝非单一因素所致。

But I'm also a huge proponent of it's not just one thing.

从来都不是单一因素造成的。

It's never just one thing.

总是存在多种因素。

There's always multiple things.

所以，是的，我是说，我可以继续讲下去

And so so, yeah, I mean, I could go on

一直讲，但你不断提到脱水问题。

and on, but So you keep mentioning dehydration.

这有多危险？

How how dangerous is that?

我是说，我想理解这一点，因为我想向人们传达这个信息，如果真的那么重要的话。

I mean, I I wanna understand because I wanna convey this to people how the like, if it's really that important.

我是说，我知道它确实很重要，但我是说对于心脏健康而言，你能详细说说为什么它会成为这样一个因素，以及是什么导致了类似情况的发生吗？

I mean, I know it is that important, but I'm saying for for heart health, can you kinda just get into why that can be such a factor and and what caused something like this?

这是个绝妙的问题，它正好引向了我发现的另一个重要方面。

That's a perfect question, and and it leads you right into a whole another aspect of something that I found.

首先，血管系统和淋巴系统本质上是一个液压系统。

So first of all, like, the vascular system and the lymphatic system is a is a hydraulic system.

对吧？

Right?

这是液体问题，液压系统需要足够的液体才能正常运转。

It's it's fluid, and a hydraulic system needs enough fluid in it to function, to operate.

所以，你知道，细胞水合作用来源于线粒体。

And so, you know, cellular hydration comes from mitochondria.

线粒体产生能量，但从我的角度来看，血管水合、淋巴水合主要来自我们摄入的水，这些水需要无毒素、富含矿物质，并且在一定程度上是连贯的，或者说是有活力的。

Mitochondria make But, metabolic like, from my perspective, vascular hydration, lymphatic hydration mostly comes from the water we and that water needs to be toxin free, mineral rich, and somewhat coherent, or energized, I would say.

那么，我这么说是什么意思呢？

And so, what do I mean by that?

我们都知道水有固态、液态和气态三种形式。

We all know that there's a solid liquid gas form of water.

有冰、水和蒸汽，但实际上水还有第四种存在状态。

There's ice, water, and steam, but there's actually a fourth state that water can exist in.

他们称之为水的第四相态、结构化水或排斥区水。

They call it the fourth phase of water or structured water or exclusion zone water.

在过去一百年间，许多不同科学家都发现水能以这种状态存在，由于他们是在不同时期发现的，所以给它起了各种不同的名称。

And this is there's many different scientists that have found that water exists in this state throughout the last hundred years, and they've called lots of different things over the years because they all discovered it at different times and and called it different things.

这种状态更像是凝胶态。

So it's more like a gel state.

你可以想象它的质地像生蛋清、果冻，或者把骨汤放进冰箱后富含胶原蛋白形成的凝胶状。

And so you can think of it as the consistency of raw egg white or, like, Jell O or when you put your bone broth in the fridge, it's got lots of collagen, it comes out like a a gel.

因此人体内大部分水都处于这种状态，这就是为什么我感觉自己像团凝胶。

And so most of the water in the body is in this state, which is why, like, I feel like a gel.

比如，你戳我一下，我会立刻弹回来。

Like, you poke me, and I I bounce right back.

对吧？

Right?

不过人体内也存在液态水。

And so this but there is liquid water in the body too.

比如，血液中有一半是水。

Like, the blood is half water.

淋巴系统主要成分也是水。

The lymphatic system is is water.

但当水接触到亲水表面时（所有生物表面都是亲水的），只要水携带足够能量，就会在该表面形成结构化水。

But anytime water gets next to a water loving surface, which all biological surfaces are water loving, and the water holds enough energy to it, it will become the structured water next to that surface.

实验证明这种现象确实发生在动脉内壁上。

And so they've actually shown that this does occur on the lining of the arteries.

因此这种结构化水会在动脉内壁形成。

And so this structured water forms on the lining of the artery.

所以你可以把它想象成这种凝胶层。

And so you think of it like this gel layer.

他们认为糖萼形成了这种凝胶层，但实际上，是糖萼上形成的结构化水使其具有凝胶特性。

And they think that the glycocalyx is what forms this gel layer, but, really, it's the structured water forming on the glycocalyx that is making it this gel.

这一点非常重要，因为这种凝胶状水具有一些非常独特的特性。

And so that's really, really important because this water, this gel like water, has some very unique characteristics.

一是它具有很强的负电荷，这很重要。

One is that it's very negatively charged, which is important.

另一个原因是他们称之为排斥区水——当它形成时，几乎没有任何物质能穿透。

And another is that it's they call it exclusion zone water for a reason, because when it forms, almost nothing can penetrate.

它会排斥所有非自身物质。

It excludes everything that's not it.

唯一能穿透它的物质是比钾离子更小的水合矿物质离子。

The only things that can penetrate it are very small hydrated ions of minerals, that are smaller than potassium.

钾离子更小。

Potassium are smaller.

因此，任何不属于它的物质都无法穿透。

And so anything that's not it can't penetrate it.

这意味着脂蛋白体积过大。

That means lipoproteins are extremely too big.

即使是血液中最小的蛋白质——白蛋白，也远远过大。

Even albumin, which is in the blood, smallest protein in the blood is way too big.

红细胞体积过大。

Red blood cells, way too big.

细菌体积过大。

Bacteria, way too big.

如果我们有这层结构化水，动脉就能得到保护，免受潜在损害。

And so if we have this layer of structured water, the artery's protected, let's say, any things that may damage it.

它还形成了一道无摩擦屏障。

It also creates a frictionless barrier.

结构化水实际上就是冰面滑动时在冰层表面形成的水层。

So, structured water is actually what forms on the ice when your ice gate goes across it.

所以，这就是为什么你会在冰上打滑。

So, that's why you can slip on the ice.

有没有从冰箱里拿冰块时，一开始它会粘在你手上？

Ever grab the ice out of the freezer and it sticks to you at first?

是的。

Yep.

一旦它开始融化，就会从你手中滑落。

As soon as it starts to melt, it slips right out of your hand.

对吧？

Right?

这就是因为冰块和你的手指上形成了结构化水层，所以会滑脱。

That's what that's structured water forming on the ice and your finger, and it slips out.

现在有了这个无摩擦的屏障。

Now there's this frictionless barrier.

所以这说明了两个要点。

And so that's two things.

另一件有趣的事是，这种结构化水会形成能量梯度，因为我记得告诉过你，由于形成方式，结构化水会带上很强的负电性，没错。

The other thing is that, fascinatingly, this structured water creates an energy gradient, because I remember I told you that the structured water becomes very electronegatively charged because of how it forms, which Yeah.

等我讲到那个部分时，我们可以详细讨论。

When I get into that, we can.

然后它会剥离氢原子，这些氢原子现在集中在动脉的管腔内。

And then it cleaves off hydrogens, and hydrogens are concentrated into the lumen of the artery now.

于是负电区域与带正电的氢原子相邻，这就形成了能量分离，电荷分离，相当于一个电池。

So there's a negative area next to the positive hydrogens, and that's an energy separation, a charge separation, which is a battery.

所以人体内形成的结构化水本质上就是一个电池。

And so structured water forming in the body is basically a battery.

它是我们身体的能量储存形式，这个电池产生了推动血液流动所需的能量。

It's an energy storage form of our body, and and this battery creates the energy needed to move blood.

他们在Pollock博士实验室做过实验，把亲水材料制成的管子放入水槽，用红外线照射水体。

And they've done this as experiments in doctor Pollock's lab, where they put a tube made of a hydrophilic material into a vat of water, and they put infrared light on the water.

结构化水在管内生长后，水开始在没有外力作用下自行流过管道。

The structured water grows in the tube, the water starts flowing through the tube with no force acting on it whatsoever.

他们实际上也在鸡胚胎的动脉中做过这个实验。

And they've actually done this in the arteries of chick embryos too.

他们会对心脏实施安乐死。

They, you know, euthanize the heart.

他们停止鸡胚胎的心脏跳动，用红外光照射血液，血液在没有心脏泵送的情况下继续在动脉中流动。

They stop the heart of the chick embryo, shine infrared light on the blood, and the blood continues to move through the arteries without the pumping heart.

我不认为这是血液流动的主要驱动力。

I don't think it's the main mover of blood.

结构化水最后的作用不仅仅是形成动脉排列。

And then the last thing that structured water does is it doesn't just form an aligning of the arteries.

它还会在血液成分本身上形成。

It also forms on the elements of blood themselves.

我们有证据表明，红细胞和脂蛋白具有zeta电位，即它们周围带有负电荷，而这种负电荷就是结构化水。

So we have evidence that the, red blood cells and lipoproteins have a zeta potential, which is a negative charge around them, and that negative charge is structured water.

因此当所有这些物质都带负电荷时，同种电荷相互排斥，所以不会粘在一起，而当我们出现血栓时，就是物质开始粘连凝结。

So And when all these things have a negative charge, like charges repel each other, so nothing's sticking together, which is what happens when we have clots, is things start sticking together and coagulating.

因此，如果我们想保护动脉内壁、保持血液流动、并让血液成分保持分离不粘连，我们就需要充足的水分，而且这些水必须是结构化水。

So if we want to protect the lining of the artery, keep blood moving, and keep elements of blood separated and not sticking together, we need enough water, and we need that water to be structured water.

所以保证足够的原材料非常重要。

So having enough of the raw material is very important.

水质要无毒且富含矿物质，同时具有能量也非常关键，这就引出了我认为当今心脏病发作的首要原因。心脏病发作时，0。

It being free of toxins and it being free full of minerals, and then energized is also very important, which takes us to what I think is the number one cause of heart disease today, which is lack of infrared light exposure.

因为红外线红外线是已知最擅长创造结构化水的因素。

Because infrared light is what creates structured water the best of anything that we know.

好的。

Okay.

这很合理，因为太阳光中40%至50%都是红外线。

Makes sense because the sun is 40 to 50% infrared light.

所以地球上的所有生命本应全天候接受这种刺激，如果我们不是整天把自己关在室内空间的话。

So all life on the planet would have this stimulus all day long if we didn't enclose ourselves in these indoor spaces all the time.

好的。

Okay.

既然你提到这个，除了太阳之外，获取红外线的最佳方式有哪些？

So now that you said that, what are the best ways to get infrared light aside from the sun?

因为我知道有些人脑子里觉得太阳很可怕很糟糕，那么晒太阳的最佳时段是什么时候？

Because I know some people have this in their head that the sun is so bad and scary, and what are the best times to to get the sun?

所以这是两个问题。

So two part question.

是的。

Yeah.

太阳永远是最佳选择，但现代科技也提供了一些增强红外线照射的工具。

Well, sun's always gonna be the best, but there are modern day things we can use to boost our infrared light exposure.

但需要明确的是，其实晒太阳没有所谓的最佳时段，因为只要太阳升起，它就会持续释放40%到50%的红外线。

But just to be clear, so I guess there's really no best time to get sunlight exposure because anytime the sun is up, it's 40 to 50% infrared light is being emitted.

一天中变化的是蓝光、绿光和黄光的比例，这些光线会升降变化告诉我们时间信息，而红光和红外线基本保持稳定。

What changes throughout the day is the amount of blue, green, yellow light, that goes up and down and tells us what time it is throughout the break, whereas the red and infrared light stays pretty much the same.

没错。

Right.

任何时候你都可以出门晒太阳，只是人们常说早晚是获取红外线的最佳时段，但其实那只是因为此时红外线相对其他光线比例较高，并非绝对值最高。

Anytime you can get outside, it's just that people say, like, morning and evening, those are the best times you get infrared, but that's just, like, it's highest at that time, it's not really highest at that time, it's just higher than the other other ones of light at the time.

此外还有红外线桑拿——我是它的忠实粉丝——以及红外线灯板或红光灯板等设备。

So, and then, there are things like infrared saunas, which I'm a huge fan of, and infrared light panels or red light panels.

你要明白，太阳光和火光是人类本应接触的唯一自然光源，而火光含有大量红外线。这算是另一个知识点：其实我们需要的是紫外线到红外线全波段的光谱。

So you gotta think of it like the only visible or the only light we're supposed to get that's native to us really is that from the sun or from fire, but fire is very high in infrared light, so, yeah, there's another stimulus for you, but it's supposed to be UV through infrared.

对吧？

Right?

如果你观察光谱，Pollock博士实验室发现紫外线对结构化水形成的效果最差，虽然也有作用，但远不如其他光线。

If you look at the spectrum, what they found in doctor Pollock's lab is that UV was the least effective at producing structured water, but it did, just not near as good.

沿着光谱往下走，经过紫、橙、黄、绿等各种颜色，直到红色和红外线区域——远红外线对水分子结构化效果最佳。

And the further you went down, you know, down here, so you go through violet, orange, whatever, yellow, green, whatever, all these things, about over to red and then infrared, far infrared is the best as as structuring water.

就是说光谱上越往下的部分效果越好。

So the furthest you go down that way.

比如我喜欢的桑拿房，它释放的远红外线量是我所知所有桑拿中最多的，不过近红外线也有效果。

So, like, the sauna that I like, use it gives off the most far infrared light of of any sauna that I know of, but near infrared will do it.

红光也能起到同样效果。

Red light will do it.

只是远红外线的作用更显著。所以，是的，你真的需要这样来理解。

It's just that far infrared is the So, yeah, it's really so you gotta think about it like this.

我们的身体本就是设计来从环境中获取能量的，我们可以通过多种方式实现这一点。

Our bodies are just designed to harvest energy from the environment, and we can do that multiple ways.

我们可以通过直接阳光照射来实现，主要是红外线。

We can do it from direct sunlight exposure, mainly infrared.

我们可以通过与大地直接接触来实现这一点，因为阳光正通过它们自己的球体将能量集中到地球，通过闪电进入地球。

We can do it from direct contact with the Earth because the sunlight is concentrating energy into the Earth through they own a sphere through lightning into the Earth, and we can do it through harvesting the chemical bonds in food.

我们可以通过这种方式获取能量。

We can gain energy that way.

当我们获取能量时，身体会想要储存它。

When we gain energy, our body wants to store it.

而它储存能量的方式就是通过结构化水。

And the way that it stores it structured water.

我告诉过你结构化水就是这种电池。

I told you that structured water is this battery.

我们体内细胞和血管系统中积累的结构化水越多，我们储存的能量就越多。

The more structured water we have in the body built up, in our cells, in our vascular system, the more energy we've stored.

因此如果我们给身体更多能量储存，它就会形成更多结构化水，这正是我们想要的。

So if we give our body more energy to store, it's gonna build more structured water, and that's what we want.

所以这就是你需要思考的方式。

So that's way you have to think about it.

这就像能量动力学，仅此而已。

It's like it's energy dynamics is all it is.

所以这很合理，因为生命最初就是这样的。

So that but it makes sense because that's where life was.

生命最初就是在户外，与大地接触，整天沐浴在红外线下。

Life was outside, in contact with the Earth, under infrared light all day long.

即使你坐在阴凉处，红外线也会从草地反射到你身上，而我们则从食物中获取化学键的能量并从中制造电子。

Even if you're sitting in the shade, the infrared's reflecting off the grass onto you, and then we were harvesting the chemical bonds from food and making electrons from that.

这就是我们获取能量的来源。

And so and so that's where we get energy from.

所以当你回顾人类在过去一百年的所作所为时，会发现心脏病、冠状动脉疾病在几百年前几乎闻所未闻。

And so when you you look at what humanity has done over the last hundred years so heart disease, coronary artery disease, was almost unheard of in the right hundreds.

突然间，它就出现了。

And all of a sudden, here it comes.

我们做了什么？

What have we done?

大约在20世纪40年代末、50年代初，心脏病发病率开始真正飙升。

Well, around the 1940s, late 1940s, early 1950s, that's when heart disease really started to skyrocket.

在此之前，虽然经历了几次世界大战，人们吸烟很普遍，很多事情本可以促成这种缓慢的增长，但真正飙升是在20世纪40年代和50年代。

Before then, there was a couple of world wars, and there was a lot of smoking and lots of things going on that could have contributed to the the gentle rise, but then it really skyrocketed in the 1940s and 50s.

那个时期我们做了什么？

And what did we do at that time?

我们在20世纪50年代发明了荧光灯。

We invented fluorescent bulbs in the 1950s.

我们拥有阳光、白炽灯、火焰，随后又有了荧光灯——它们创造了非常明亮的室内光照环境，这意味着我们可以在室内停留更长时间。接着七十年代出现了LED灯，在九十年代末至两千年代初逐渐普及，这使得我们能够更多地在室内生活。

We had sunlight, we had incandescent bulbs, we had fire, and then we had fluorescent bulbs, which created a very bright indoor light environment, which means that we could be indoors more, and then later came LEDs in the seventies, and then became more prominent in the early two thousands, late nineties, and so that allowed us to live more indoors.

因此我们移除了那些能形成结构化水、保护凝血反应、促进内皮细胞生长的刺激因素。随后我们又叠加了多种伤害性因素。

And so we're removing the stimulus that creates the structured water, protects the clotting response, protects that growth of the endothelial that creates a clotting response, then we added a bunch of insults.

在缺乏结构化水的情况下，我们增加了毒素接触和加工食品的摄入。

Without the structured water, we added toxin exposures, processed food.

要知道五十年代正是加工食品爆发式增长的时期。

I mean, the fifties, that's when processed food just skyrocketed.

而海洋油脂的使用比那更早，我们在失去保护的情况下添加了所有这些会引发炎症的物质。

And then sea oils were much earlier than that, but we added all these things that were inflammatory to us without the protection.

现在动脉受到损伤，而我们本应能够修复这些损伤。

Now the damage happens to the artery, and we're supposed to be able to repair that damage.

然而我们却制造了这种干扰身体自愈能力的状况。

However, we then created this situation where we interfere with our body's ability to heal stuff.

于是出现了二型糖尿病流行——糖尿病患者面临的首要问题就是伤口难以愈合。

So you have an epidemic of type two diabetes, which the number one issue with being diabetic is poor wound healing.

因此当你的动脉出现伤口或形成凝血组织却无法愈合时，这些损伤就会持续存在。

So when you get a wound or clotting tissue in your artery and you can't heal it, it sticks around.

另一个问题是我们打乱了昼夜节律。

And the other thing is we disrupted our circadian rhythm.

如果昼夜节律紊乱，你就无法进入应有的深度修复性睡眠状态，这实际上意味着褪黑素水平低下。

And if you disrupt circadian rhythm, you don't get into the deep restorative healing sleep that you're supposed to, and that really means low melatonin levels.

而褪黑素正是稳定易破裂斑块的头号关键物质。

And melatonin is, like, the number one thing for stabilizing rupture prone plaques.

它能修复动脉内膜。

It heals the lining of the artery.

它能让你进入夜间排毒所需的深度睡眠。

It gets you into the deep sleep where you detoxify at night.

所以这就是我理解心脏病或冠状动脉疾病的三重作用机制。

So that's that's like the three pronged approach that I I kind of see heart disease as or coronary artery disease.

至于这些随时间形成的斑块是否会导致心脏病发作，则是另一个话题了。

Now whether or not that plaque developing over time causes heart attacks is a different conversation.

对。

Right.

但在我看来，这就是问题的症结所在。

But that's that's the recipe right there from my perspective.

我知道你只问了关于水的问题，但我

I know all you asked about was water, but I

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我现在有无数个问题想问。

I just have a million questions now.

第一个基本问题，你建议每天晒多少太阳才能获得足够的红外线，从而让水达到理想状态？

First basic question, how much sunlight do you recommend a day to get the proper amount of of infrared that we need to get that water developed?

我是说，这个过程会非常快。

I mean, it's gonna be pretty instant.

就像，你一旦接触到红外线，它就会立即构建结构化水。

Like, you're gonna you get infrared light exposure, it's gonna it's gonna build structured water pretty instantly.

这种状态能维持多久呢？对。

How long it stays there, Right.

而且，你得好好想想这个问题。

I And and so, I mean, you you gotta think about it.

我经常回想，如果我今天生活在森林里——那是地球上所有生命的自然环境——我能获得多少红外线？

I always go back to, you know, if I lived in the woods today, which is the natural environment of all life on Earth, how much infrared would I get?

我整天都能接触到红外线，明白吗？

I get infrared all day long, you know?

它总是会与其他所有颜色的光和波长保持平衡，我认为这一点也很重要，因为当我们观察当今的LED灯泡时，它们蓝光含量过高，而其他颜色的光含量却异常偏低，这对我们来说正成为一个问题。

It would always all, it was, it would also always be balanced with all the other colors and wavelengths of light, and I think that is important too, because I think that when we look at today, we look at LED bulbs and how high in blue light they are and how unnaturally high they are in blue light and low in the other colors of light, that's becoming a problem for us.

我们正面临这种光的不平衡，就像加工食品对我们有害一样。从这个角度来看，红外线桑拿就是一种加工过的光。

We're getting this imbalance, it's like a processed light, just like a processed food is bad for us, And so if you look about it that way, an infrared sauna is processed light.

所以我确实认为我们可能会过度使用红外线。

So I do think we could overdo it.

如果你看看相关研究，比如脊椎按摩师就非常喜欢他们的低强度光疗法和红光激光之类的设备。

And if you look at studies like, you know, chiropractors love their low level light therapy with their red light lasers and things like that.

如果你查看关于这些事物的研究，红光激光器的效果呈现钟形曲线。

If you look at the studies on those things, the red light lasers have a it's a bell curve.

就像存在一个阈值。

Like, it's a threshold.

效果先是正向、正向、正向，但到某个临界点就会转为负面。

Like, it's positive, positive, positive, positive, and at some point, it becomes negative.

因为我认为它是经过加工的光线。

Because I think it's a processed light.

它没有被所有颜色和波长平衡。

It's not balanced by all the colors and wavelengths.

它最终会在某个时候产生负面影响。

It's gonna have a negative at some point.

但由于我们极度缺乏红光和红外线，最初效果非常积极。

But we're so deficient in red and infrared light that at first, it's very positive.

这是一种积极的反应。

It's a positive, like, response.

它具有抗炎作用。

It's anti inflammatory.

它能构建水的结构，类似这样的效果。

It's building the structure of water, that kind of stuff.

所以当你说需要多少时，我认为这取决于你获得的是哪种类型的光。

So when you say how much, it depends on what type of light you're getting, I'd say.

我不会整天都坐在红外线桑拿里。

I wouldn't sit in infrared sun all day long.

整天安装一个红红外线灯或红近红外线面板。

Mount it with a red and infrared light or red and near infrared light panel on all day long.

我会整天晒太阳或待在户外，即使是在阴凉处之类的地方。

I would sit in the sun all day long or outside all day long, you know, even if it's in the shade or something like that.

那样似乎更合适。

That seems more appropriate.

但我确实会用红外线桑拿和红光面板来补充红外线，特别是在雨天或寒冷的冬天等情况。

But I do use infrared saunas and red light panels to boost my infrared, especially, like, on rainy days or cold in the winter and things like that.

我全年都用桑拿，大概每周六次，每次二、三十分钟。

I mean, I use my sauna year round, maybe fan six times a week for twenty, thirty minutes.

比如今天早上我就用了二十分钟桑拿。

And then so, like, today, I used my sauna this morning for twenty minutes.

我用了一次红光面板，大约二十分钟，然后今天还在阳光下坐了将近一个半小时。

I used my red light panel once for, like, twenty minutes, and then I sat out in the sun for, like, almost an hour and a half today.

不过这是今天我时间安排允许的。

But that's my schedule allowed for that today.

虽然不能每天都这样安排，但这就是我的日常。

That that doesn't allow for that every day, but that's what I do.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Got it.

所以如果有人晨间散步时使用红光面板，偶尔蒸个桑拿，基本上就达标了？只要每天坚持并合理搭配这些活动。

So if somebody, like, goes out for a morning walk, hits a red light panel, throws in a sauna here and there, they're doing okay then, basically, just getting that in daily and trying to mix that in.

这很基础对吧？想想看，人们醒来后——我记得有项调查显示，现代人平均93%的时间都在室内或封闭的交通工具里度过。

It's beta, isn't Then, I mean, you think about it, people wake up, I mean, I think the study is they did a survey and they determined that the average person today spends 93% of the time, 93% of the time either indoors or on closed vehicles.

我知道你

I knew where you

要表达什么，

were going with that, and

确实如此。

I just Oh, yeah.

所以你可以想想，我们本应全天接受红外线照射，但93%的时间都没有，即便在户外时，我们可能穿着阻挡红外线的厚衣服。

And so, like, you could think about it, like, we're supposed to have infrared all day long, and 93% of the time, we don't, and even then when we're outside, we may have thick clothes on that prevent your infrared putting there.

我的意思是，这不会完全阻挡。

I mean, it's not gonna prevent it totally.

红外线可以稍微穿透衣物，但衣服越厚，效果就越差。

The infrared can go through clothes a little bit, but the thicker the clothes, the worse it's gonna be.

你只需要稍微思考一下这个问题，然后想想，好吧。

So you just gotta think about that for a second, and you have to think about, okay.

我们已经...这是个巨大的改变。

We've that's a huge change.

大家都在谈论加工食品，这确实是个大问题。

Everybody talks about the processed food, which is a huge deal.

他们也在讨论毒素暴露，这同样很重要，但红外线缺失确实是个重大暴露问题。

And they talk about toxin exposure, which is a huge deal, but that is a really big exposure.

当你开始理解它对身体的作用——比如构建结构化水（血液中一半是水），这确实让我有点困扰。

When you start to understand it in the context of what it does for the body as far as it builds structural water, and the blood is half water, and, like, it kind of irks me a little bit.

我很少生气，也不是个爱发脾气的人。

I don't get angry very often, I'm not an airy person.

但大家还在讨论脂质问题，这确实让我有点恼火。

But it kind of irks me that everybody's still talking about lipids.

要知道，动脉壁正在发生病变，血液中存在脂质是事实，斑块中也确实能发现某些脂质。

You know, there's still, like, we have this disease process that's happening in an artery wall, and there's lipids in the blood, that's true, and there are some lipids we find in plaque, that's true.

这是因为当血液凝结时，会吸附周围物质，明白吗？

That's because when things clot, it tends to suck in the things that are around it, you know?

但我们的生理系统中还存在许多其他因素，而我们却只试图研究其中一方面——仅仅是脂质，仅仅是胆固醇。

But there's also a lot of other things in our physiology, and we're trying to study just one aspect of it, just the the lipids, the the cholesterol.

不知道人们是否理解我说的脂质含义，但只关注胆固醇、低密度脂蛋白和高密度脂蛋白这些东西，试图通过忽略水分、电解质、蛋白质、糖萼层、内皮细胞等来理解整个疾病过程——我们忽视了太多因素，却只分析血液中的脂质来评估心脏病风险，这种做法极其短视。关于现代研究的缺陷，我可以滔滔不绝地讲下去，尽管我每天都在关注这些研究。

People I don't know if people know what I mean by lipids, but just the cholesterol, LDL and HDL and all these things, and trying to just to to understand or or figure out a whole disease process with ignoring the water, the electrolytes, you know, the proteins, the glycocalyx, the endothelia, like, we're ignoring a lot of that stuff, and we're just trying to analyze lipids in the blood and assess our risk of heart disease, which is incredibly shortsighted, which to me is, I could go on and on about the shortcomings of modern day research, even though I look at it all the time.

把脂质说得像洪水猛兽，好像给全人类开他汀类药物就能解决问题——这个话题我就不多说了。

Treat lipids or put lipids out there like it's such a problem and you can put every human on a statin, but I'll leave that alone.

你说到点子上了。

You said it.

我们真的只需要说这么多就够了。

That's all we need to say, really.

是啊。

Yeah.

制造问题然后兜售解决方案。

You a problem and sell the solution.

事情就是这样，真的很可悲，我亲眼目睹了太多人遭遇这种事。

It that's that's what it is, and it's really sad, and I and I've seen it done to so many people.

我的药一直放在床头柜上，有充分的理由从未服用过。

Mine sat on my nightstand and never got used with good reason.

但就像我说的，我不想再深究这个了。

But, like I said, I'll I'll I'll leave that alone.

我不想那么做。

I don't wanna do that.

我想让你知道，我希望保持话题相关性。

I wanna get you know, I I wanna stay on on topical.

我稍后会做一期节目专门分享我的个人观点。

I'll do a episode of where I give my own thoughts later.

不过话说回来，这个话题要往回倒一倒，我有些饮食相关的问题，但只想先快速请教你一件事——刚才聊得兴起没来得及问，现在突然又想起来了。

But, anyway, this is going back because I have some diet related questions, but I just wanna ask you one quick question because we got going and I didn't get to ask you and it just popped back into my head.

你之前提到凝血问题，我们讨论的其实是...虽然你没明说，但我脑海里想的是软斑块破裂。

You were talking about clotting, and we're talking about, like, soft you didn't say this, but I was I'm thinking in my head, soft plaque rupture.

哪些因素可能导致那种凝血现象？或许这就是你遇到的情况，虽然我们无法确定，但你把这点列为了可能性之一。

What would cause that clotting that perhaps was what happened to you because we don't know, but you brought that up as one of the possibilities.

或者说哪些因素会诱发软斑块破裂呢？

Or what would cause a soft plaque, like, to rupture?

因为...我们刚才没深入这点，但软斑块破裂确实是可能导致动脉阻塞继而引发心脏病的因素之一。

Because I I I'm we didn't get into that, but soft plaque rupture is one of the things that could cause the blockage in the artery, which cause a heart attack.

对吧？

Correct?

关于这个，我是这么想的。

Here's my thoughts on that.

对。

Yeah.

告诉我。

Tell me.

这就是我问的原因。

That's why I'm asking.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，CC评分测量的是硬斑块，但也有软斑块，软斑块才是会破裂的那种。当破裂发生时，就像内部有个小火山喷发——如果让我这么形容的话——一个小破裂发生，就会引发凝血反应。

So, yeah, CC score measures hard plaque, but there's also soft plaque, and it's like the soft plaque is what ruptures, and then when the rupture happens, it's like a loose volcano out of like, if I'm describing this like this on the inside, a little rupture happens, and that causes a clotting response.

理论上讲，这就是动脉阻塞导致心脏病发作的原因。

Fighting response can block an artery, that's the theory anyways.

我一直在问不同的心脏病专家——就是那些在心脏病发作时进去清除血栓的人——我问过他们大概五个不同的医生，当你进去时看到什么能让你确信这是斑块破裂引发的心脏病发作？

I've asked I've asked multiple, you know, cardiologists, which are the ones that go in and when a heart attack's happening and and bust open clots and stuff, like, I've asked them, about five different ones at this point, what do you see when you go in there that tells you this was a plaque rupture that caused this heart attack?

你完全确定吗？

You're absolutely sure.

是血液检查中的某项指标吗？

Is it something on blood work?

是当你进去时看到的东西吗？他们提出了一些理论性的解释，但实际上并没有共识，比如我们并不确定这种斑块破裂就是导致心脏病发作的原因，我们只是看到堵塞然后修复它，这很好，当时我们需要修复它。

Is it something you see when you go in there, and they come up with some theoretical thing, but there's really no consensus, like, we don't know that this plaque rupture thing is causing the heart attack, we just see a blockage and we fix it, which is good, we need to fix it at that time.

对。

Right.

2015年还有一篇发表的论文叫《易损斑块的神话》，可以免费阅读。

Now there's also a paper published in 2015 called The Myth of the Vulnerable Plaque, which is free to read.

人们可以输入这个关键词去查阅相关资料，马上就能读到。

People can look type that in and go look it up and read it right now.

是的。

Yeah.

那些作者们回顾了关于心脏病发作的斑块破裂理论的证据，他们在文章中明确指出，斑块破裂确实会发生，但很少导致心脏病发作。

And they and those art and those authors, they they reviewed the evidence for this plaque rupture theory of heart attacks, and they basically stated that, in the article, they stated that plaque ruptures, yes, they do happen, but they rarely cause heart attacks.

有些人会理解为斑块破裂确实会导致心脏病，他们说斑块破裂经常发生，但只有极少数情况会引发心脏病发作。

Now, some people take that as plaque ruptures cause they say that plaque ruptures happen all the time, but only a certain very small percentage of them are what causes heart attacks.

也有人会认为这意味着斑块破裂导致了所有心脏病发作，只是它们经常发生，但并非每次都会引发心脏病。

And some people would say that that means that plaque ruptures cause all the heart attacks, it's just they happen all the time, but they don't always cause a heart attack.

我的理解是斑块破裂经常发生，但它们不会导致心脏病发作。

I take it to mean that plaque ruptures happen all the time, and they don't cause heart attacks.

他们研究中的数据显示，任何动脉中的斑块或狭窄通过斑块破裂引发心脏病的概率仅为0.06%，这几乎等于零。

And their number in the study was that the chance of any plaque or stenosis in an artery causing a heart attack by plaque rupture was point zero six percent, which is essentially never.

所以，我再次认为这与血流动力学关系更大，这方面也有大量研究支持。

So, and again, I think it has more to do with blood flow dynamics, which there's plenty of research for that too.

Mayor Texan和Richard Thoma在探讨血流动力学与斑块及心脏病发作关系方面也做了非常出色的工作。

Mayor Texan and Richard Thoma also did very good work talking about blood flow dynamics and and causing plaque and heart attacks.

总之，我不认为斑块破裂理论足够可靠到能让我肯定地说'是的'。

So so anyways, I don't know that the plaque rupture theory to me is sound enough for me to say yes.

另一个问题是，当你观察医学试图如何预防斑块破裂时，他们治疗的是狭窄。

Now the other thing is is that when you look at what medicine tries to do to prevent plaque ruptures is treat the stenosis.

他们尝试通过搭桥手术绕过狭窄处，或者放置支架来扩张动脉中80%的狭窄部位。

They try and do a bypass procedure to bypass the stenosis, or they try and place a stent in there to open up, you know, a 80% stenosis in an artery.

如果斑块破裂恰好发生在狭窄处，而他们这样打开血管，你会认为这有助于预防心脏病发作，但事实并非如此。

And if the plaque ruptures are happening at that point where that stenosis is and they open it up like that, you'd think that that would help prevent a heart attack, but they don't.

如果你查看关于搭桥手术和选择性支架植入的研究（即在没有心脏病发作时放置支架），这些手术并不能预防心脏病发作。

If you look at the studies on bypass surgeries and elective stent placements where the stents are placed when there's not a heart attack happening, they don't prevent heart attacks.

无论你是否接受这些手术，它们都无法预防心脏病发作。

Whether you have those procedures or not, they don't prevent heart attacks.

它们可以缓解某些人的症状，比如胸痛等不适。

They can alleviate symptoms in some people, like chest pain and things like that.

他们倾向于对某些人这样做，但对另一些人则不会。

They tend to do that for some people, but some people they don't.

所以我们正在进行的这个据说能预防心脏病发作的手术，其实并不能预防心脏病发作，因为我不认为斑块破裂是导致心脏病发作的原因，至少不总是如此。

So we're doing this procedure that's supposedly preventing heart attacks, but it's not preventing a heart attack, because I don't think that plaque ruptures are what cause heart attacks, at least not all the time.

它们有时确实可能会这样。

They do sometimes probably.

所以，是的，就这样没完没了，因为现在当我们讨论硬斑块与软斑块时，我知道在心脏病学领域里，他们现在声称——他们试图通过说‘我们有证据表明他汀类药物能增加动脉中钙化斑块的数量’来为其使用辩护，而钙化斑块更安全，因为它不是软的，不会破裂。

And so, yeah, and it just, it goes on and on, because now, when we talk about hard versus soft plaque, I know that within the field of cardiology now, they're saying, well, they're trying to justify the use of statins by saying, well, we have evidence that it increases the amount of calcified plaque in your arteries, which calcified plaque is safer because it's not soft, it's not gonna rupture.

但研究也很明确表明，你体内的钙化斑块越多，心脏病发作的风险就越高。

It's just like, yeah, but the studies are also very clear that the more calcified plaque you have, the more risk of heart attack you have.

所以你想要哪一种？

So which one do you want?

你是想让我有更多不会破裂的钙化斑块，还是钙化的那种？我也不知道。

Do you want me to have more calcified plaque so it's not gonna rupture, or the calcified, like, I don't know.

但这就是现实情况。

But again, that's what happens.

当你追查错误的方向时，就会得出这些毫无意义的理论和治疗方法。

You get these kind of theories and treatments that don't make sense whenever you're chasing down the wrong thing.

明白吗？

You know?

在我看来，他们就是在追查错误的方向。

And to me, they're chasing the wrong thing.

从我的角度来看，预防心脏病发作的方法——我个人为防止再次发作所做的——就是构建结构化水，为身体提供能量。

The way you prevent a heart attack from my perspective, what I'm doing personally to prevent it from me again is building structured water, giving my body energy.

这就是会发生的情况。

That that's what that's what happens.

就像，如果你没有足够的能量，就会生病。

Like, if you don't have enough energy, you get disease.

你的身体没有足够的能量来维持其生理机能以抵抗疾病。

Your body doesn't have enough energy to maintain its physiology against disease.

所以这对我来说是关注的重点。

So that would be the focus for me.

如果你担心斑块破裂的问题，我之前提到过褪黑激素已被证明可以稳定易破裂斑块，这意味着你需要注意人工光源的暴露，尤其是日落后。

And then if you are worried about plaque ruptures, I I mentioned before that melatonin has been shown to stabilize rupture prone plaques, which means you need to pay attention to your artificial light exposure, especially after sunset.

因为当你阻挡蓝光时，就是在告诉身体制造褪黑激素。

Because when you block blue light, that's when you tell your body to make melatonin.

由于这种光污染，我们社会中普遍存在慢性褪黑激素缺乏。

And we have a chronic melatonin deficiency in society because of this light pollution that we have.

所以，是的，这就是关于斑块破裂的情况。

So, yeah, that's that's the the story on ruptured plaques.

所以阻断褪黑激素或者说阻断蓝光是有益的，因为它能帮助身体产生更多褪黑激素。

So blocking melatonin is a or blocking blocking blue light is a good thing because it's gonna help to get you more melatonin.

对吗？

Correct?

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yeah.

好的。

So Okay.

褪黑激素是响应黑暗信号或缺乏蓝光信号时产生的荷尔蒙。

Melatonin is the hormone that's produced in response to a darkness signal or a lack of blue light signal.

其他因素如绿光和光照强度也会抑制褪黑激素分泌，但蓝光的影响目前仍是主要因素。

And there are other things like green light and the brightness of light can also shut down melatonin production, but blue is the main thing by far.

而蓝光会刺激皮质醇分泌。

And then blue light will stimulate cortisol.

所以白天皮质醇让我们保持清醒警觉，晚上褪黑激素则促进睡眠、修复和疗愈这类功能。

So cortisol during the day, we're supposed to be awake and alert, and then melatonin at night, sleepy, repair, heal, that kind of stuff.

这就是我整天戴着Beaver Ray眼镜的原因之一，它有多层镜片，不仅能阻隔蓝光，还能调节我的昼夜节律——毕竟我整天对着电脑屏幕。这套系统还分三个渐进阶段来运作。

That's one of the things I've been doing with this with the Beaver Ray's glasses throughout the day, and there's multiple lenses and because it's trying to fix my circadian rhythm on top of blocking out because I'm on a computer all day in front of screens and there's a three step layer to it too.

因为如果全天完全阻隔蓝光，反而会打乱睡眠模式。这个方案能协调光线接触，先按特定比例阻隔，睡前再完全屏蔽，目前运作效果很理想。

Because if you block it completely out all day, then it can throw off your sleep patterns too, and this is kind of harmonizing the light, and then it goes into blocking it at, you know, a certain majority and then all of it right before bed, but it's it's working it out properly.

我认为睡眠非常重要。

I think sleep is very important.

我了解到大量关于睡眠对整体健康、心血管健康影响的重要信息，还有炎症等我们需要关注的指标。

I have learned quite a bit of significant information on how important sleep is to all overall health and cardiovascular health and then, you know, inflammation and these kind of markers that we need to look for.

现在我知道医生和部分人群最关注血检中的脂质指标，但你认为我们真正需要注意哪些标志物？

Now, I know that the main focus for doctors and certain people with priorities is lipid on a blood panel, but in your view, what are the markers that we would really need to be aware of?

我猜你会提到C反应蛋白或高敏C反应蛋白这类炎症标志物。

My assumption is that you're going to say like C reactive protein or high sensitive C reactive protein is one as one because it's an inflammation marker.

不过还是想听你专业建议：究竟该关注哪些关键指标？哪些被过分夸大？哪些是看似重要实则非核心的检测项目？

But what you tell me, what what should one be looking for and what's of importance and what is completely overblown or just something that we're told that needs to be looked at that maybe not necessarily is the key indicator?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，这对我来说是个难题，因为我并没有一个非常明确的答案。

I mean, this is a tough question for me because I don't have a super straight answer.

好吧。

Okay.

因为我认为我对检测（无论是影像学检查如CHT评分、CT扫描等，还是血液检查）的哲学观点是：从技术上讲，这些指标某种程度上决定了你的风险等级。

Because I think my philosophy on testing, whether it's imaging, like a CHT score or CT scan or whatever, or blood work, is that technically, those things kind of determine your risk.

比如，有些研究表明，高CAC评分或高C反应蛋白确实会增加风险，但真正加剧风险的是你在拿到检测结果后采取的行动。

Like, have some studies that show that, yes, this having a high CAC score or having a C reactive protein that's high can increase your risk, but what really increases your risk is what you do from that point you've got that test.

明白了。

Got it.

你从那一刻起选择的生活方式、环境及行为才至关重要——这也正是我对此充满热情的原因。因为如果医学不会告诉你该采取哪些健康行为（这些是我必须自行摸索的），而你又不知道该如何调整，就等于让自己陷入被动。

The lifestyle and environment and behaviors that you choose from that point, which is why I'm so passionate about this, because if you don't know which lifestyle behaviors to do from that point, which medicine's not gonna tell you, those are things I had to find out for myself, then you're putting yourself behind the eight ball.

无论检测结果如何，你实际上都没有真正降低风险。

You're not really decreasing your risk regardless of what the test shows.

明白吗？

You know?

除了胆固醇水平外，我的各项检测结果都很完美。

My testing, aside from cholesterol levels, my testing looked perfect.

我的C反应蛋白很低，冠状动脉钙化评分也很低，但有些人会说‘你胆固醇高才是心脏病发作的原因’，这种说法你又得置之不理。

I had low C reactive protein, low CAC score, all this stuff, and there are people out there that would say, yeah, but your cholesterol was high, that's why your heart attack, and you just ignore it again.

我想说的是，我动脉中的斑块就是在高胆固醇状态下逆转的，这又该怎么解释？

I'm like, well, I also reverse plaque in my arteries with cholesterol that high, so what are gonna say?

总之，这些数字只是身体某个组织在某个时间点的快照，它们如何能真正决定我们的整体健康和风险？我认为根本不能，所以我教授学员的核心就是——我们该如何真正降低风险？答案就在于你日复一日选择的生活环境和行为方式。

So anyways, when I look at those numbers, those are just one snapshot in time of one tissue in the body, how is it really determining our overall health and overall risk, and I would argue that it's really not, which is why what I teach people in my programs and way I work with me is, like, how are we really decreasing our risk, and that is the environment and the things you choose to do day in and day out.

最可悲的是医学界对这些一无所知，我在住院时就直面了这种现状，虽然早有预料，但没想到情况如此糟糕。

And the saddest thing is that medicine is clueless about those things, and I was confronted with that in the hospital, and I knew that it was gonna be the case, but I didn't know it was that bad, you know?

既然你问到了，我就说些实用建议吧。

So just to give some people some practical things, because you asked.

空腹胰岛素水平比血糖值重要得多，因为胰岛素高就意味着存在胰岛素抵抗——无论你的血糖值如何。

So a fasting insulin level is way more important than what your blood sugar is, because if your insulin is high, it means you're insulin resistant regardless of what your blood sugar is.

空腹瘦素水平更能早期预示代谢健康是否正在恶化。

And even the fasting leptin level would be an earlier indication of if there's poor metabolic brewing or more poor metabolic health brewing.

当代谢健康状况不佳时，会干扰身体发送修复信号的能力——比如血管内皮需要胰岛素信号才能修复。

And those things, when you have poor metabolic health, you're interfering with the buyer's ability to send a signal to heal, especially, like, the lining of the endothelial need an insulin signal to heal.

如果这些组织因重金属、压力、塑料等各种因素受损，我们就无法修复它们。

And so if they're getting damaged by whatever, all the different things that can damage it, heavy metals, stress, plastics, whatever, then we can't heal them.

所以代谢健康至关重要——在血脂报告中，甘油三酯过高就能反映代谢问题。

So that's a big one, like, metabolic health is a big deal, which on a lipid panel, you can get some indication of poor metabolic health, triglycerides are really high.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者当甘油三酯与高密度脂蛋白比值异常时（正常应≤1.5）。

Or if the trig to HDL ratio is off, it should be 1.5 or lower.

有人认为标准应该更严格，但这些指标确实比胆固醇更能预测代谢健康——虽然最终这些数字并不重要。

Some people even say it should be better than that, but those are much better indicators of your metabolic health, which could be predictive, but again, those don't matter.

真正重要的是你后续采取的行动。

What matters is what you do from that point.

如果你的系统性或持续升高的高敏C反应蛋白水平偏高，这是体内普遍炎症的一个标志。

If you have a systemic or a consistently elevated high sensitivity C reactive protein, that's a marker of general inflammation in the body.

不过当你生病时，比如出现感冒或流感症状时，这个指标也可能升高。

That could be high, though, if you get sick, you're having a, you know, a cold or flu like symptoms.

所以它并不总是病理状态的必然指标。

So it's not always necessarily an indication of pathology.

只是存在这种可能性。

It's just it could be that way.

对。

Right.

但如果持续偏高，那就是个坏现象。

But if it's consistently high, that's a bad thing.

所以你可以关注这些指标。

So you could do that stuff.

红细胞沉降率（ESR）是一项血液检测，用于测量红细胞聚集的速度。

Erythrocyte sedimentation rate, ESR, is is a blood test that measures how readily your red blood cells come together.

我们不希望它们那么容易聚集。

We don't want them to come together that readily.

那样的话，表明存在高凝血风险，但那是非常短暂的。

That way, indicate there's a high risk of clot, but that's very transient.

就像我的血沉值，如果我坐在实验室的荧光灯下，没有接地，它会与我在阳光下、获得红外线、构建水结构、产生zeta电位或接地时的情况大不相同。

Like, what my ESR is, if I'm sitting in a lab under fluorescent light, ungrounded, it's gonna be very different than if I go outside in the sunlight, get the infrared, build the structure of water, create the zeta potential, or if I'm grounded or all those things.

所以，真的很难判断。

So, like, it's really hard to tell.

人们总跟我说，哦，我的胆固醇是这个值，或我的血沉是这个值。

Tell me all the time, like, oh, my cholesterol is this, or my ESR is this.

我就想，那只是你测量时的数值。

I'm like, it was that when you measured it.

很可能从那以后就不是那个数值了。

It probably hasn't been that since.

对吧？

Right?

这就是为什么日常环境和你的行为比任何检测都重要得多。

That's why the environment and what you do day in day is way more important than any of those tests.

即便如此，假设一个人的CAC评分是3000。

And even then, a CAC score, let's say, at 3,000.

我认识一个CAC评分超过3000的人，这个充满斑块的谜题从未发作过心脏病，也从未出现过心脏病症状。

I I know someone whose CAC score is over 3,000, and this riddle of the plaque never had a heart attack, never had heart attack symptoms.

哦，给我解释一下这个现象。

Oh, explain that to me.

你知道吗？

You know?

我可以解释，因为Giorgio Beraldi的研究（据我所知很大程度上被心脏病学界忽视）表明：当动脉因斑块变窄达到60-70%时，身体会在其周围建立侧支循环——比如从其他动脉分支出血管连通这条动脉，他的研究证实了这种现象。

And I can because the work of Giorgio Beraldi, which, as far as I know, is largely ignored by cardiology, showed that any time or the vast majority of the time that an artery gets to about 60 or 70% narrowed with plaque, the body builds collaterals around it, or, like, arteries from the other artery over here build over to this one, and he showed that happened.

他在职业生涯中解剖了数千颗心脏，并研发了动脉研究技术，发现这种现象的发生率是100%。

He autopsied thousands of hearts over his career, and he developed techniques to study the arteries, and he found that that happened 100%.

他从未发现过任何斑块狭窄达60-70%以上的病例会缺少能完全代偿心脏供血的侧支循环。

He never found a stenosis of plaque 60 or 70% narrowed or more that didn't have collaterals that fully compensate the heart with blood.

我在动物模型中发现证据表明，这些侧支循环可以在四到七天内形成。

And I found evidence in animal models that those collaterals can form within four to seven days.

这真的很神奇。

Like, it's amazing.

生命总会找到出路，你知道吗？

Like, life finds a way, you know?

有各种各样的可能性。

There's all these different things.

你可以获取所有这些影像，但我们真的了解吗？

Like, you can get all these images, but do we really know?

我认为我们并不了解，尽管这些检测结果或医生告诉我们什么。

And I would argue that we don't, despite what all these this testing tells us or what the doctor tells us.

所以再次强调，真正决定你风险的是你日复一日的所作所为。

And so, again, what really determines your risk is what you're doing day in and day out.

我们人类其实相当顽强。

And we humans are pretty hardy.

我们能承受很多压力。

We can handle a lot of stuff.

我是说，看看人类今天的生活方式，尽管环境恶劣，我们很多人依然过得不错，你懂的。

I mean, look at what the way humans are living today, and lots of us are doing alright, you know, despite those bad environments.

但这不意味着我们永远都会如此。

Doesn't mean we always will.

我们越能了解让身体处于何种环境以及如何消除风险，就越好，这就是我为自己总结的经验，现在我能做的就是分享它。

The more we can learn about what environment to put our bodies in and and take away that risk, the better, and that's what I've had to figure out for myself, and now all I can do is share it.

说得好，兄弟。

Beautiful, man.

我很感激。

I appreciate it.

我们来谈谈饮食吧，因为这显然在其中扮演重要角色。

Let's touch on diet, Cause that obviously is gonna play a role here.

我在想，我多年来也陷入这种恐脂症——害怕脂肪，即使作为营养师也是如此，兄弟，这是我个人的问题。

And I'm wondering, I I fell into this lipophobia fear of fats for so many years, even as a nutritionist, man, like, and that's on my my own personal issue that I've gotten into.

但我发现，一旦我转向高脂饮食，那些据说会给我们带来问题的食物。

But what I found is once I made the switch to a higher fat diet, the the foods that are supposedly the ones that are gonna cause us the problems.

你提到了饱和脂肪，我每天都会吃瘦肉、牛油果，基本上所有高脂肪含量的食物。

And you touched on saturated fat, and I implemented, you know, lean cuts of red meat every day and avocados and basically everything that's in higher fat range.

这不仅改善了我的脂肪燃烧能力，我的各项血液指标、整体感受、思维清晰度，所有方面都得到了显著提升，真的是天壤之别。

It's not only has it made my fat burning, you know, better, but my panels and blood panels and the way I feel and just my mental clarity and just everything has and when I say drastically improved, I mean, it's night and day.

我在想，低脂饮食是否导致了我们所见的心脏病等问题的增加，以及你对高脂高蛋白饮食的看法，在心脏健康方面稍微降低碳水摄入，也许能揭穿一些我们被教导的错误观念，现在这个领域的许多人都在发现并讨论这些观念其实是完全捏造、颠倒黑白且不真实的。

And I'm wondering if a low fat diet has caused some of the increases that we've seen in heart disease or issues like that and also what you're feeling on, you know, higher fat diets, higher protein diets, little bit like lower carb on in terms of heart health and and debunk maybe some of the things that we've been taught are so bad that I think many of us in this space are coming to find out and talking about we're just so fabricated and completely backwards and untrue.

说实话，看到我们被误导了这么久，真的很令人沮丧，而且这很容易理解。

It's really disheartening, honestly, to see how misled we were for so long, and then it's easy.

我作为一个专业营养师已经不知道多少年了，却仍然在违背我所教授的内容，因为心理上我始终无法真正理解，伙计。

I'm a professional nutritionist for I don't know how many years and still going against what I teach because mentally, I couldn't wrap my head around it, man.

我是说真的。

Like, I'm being honest.

我完全错了，直到去年我才克服并弄明白这一点。

I totally flawed, and it took me up until last year to get over it and figure it out.

现在我并不是个爱后悔的人，但说真的，我不仅浪费了很多年可能伤害了自己的健康，还错过了所有这些美味食物，不过，这又是另一回事了。

And now I'm I'm not a mister regret guy, but it's like, man, not only did I waste a lot of years probably harming myself, but missing out on all of these good foods too that are so good, but but, you know, that's that's a different story.

但请详细说说这点，因为我有个理论认为低脂饮食是个重要诱因。

But touch on that please, because I just have this theory that the low fat diet is a contributing factor.

关于这点，我认为有两个原因。

In that regard, I would say that for two reasons.

一是如果没有足量动物脂肪，我们就无法获取足够的维生素K2——是的，K2，缺乏它会增加动脉钙化的风险。

One is without high amounts of animal fat, we're not getting enough K2, I'm like, Yep, K2, which can be a few increased risk of calcification of arteries.

这些K2就像矿物质的导航员，比如把钙质送到该去的地方，如果缺乏K2，钙质就会沉积在动脉里。

And these K2s are what takes minerals, like calcium, where it needs to go, so if it doesn't go there, it gets deposited in arteries.

另一个原因是，有证据表明植物脂肪可能对人体有害——我在书里详细讨论过这个问题。

The other thing I'd say is that there is some evidence, which I talk about in my book, that plant fats can be problematic for us.

因为植物脂肪是为植物准备的。

Because plant fats are for plants.

动物脂肪才是为动物准备的——而我们正是动物。

Animal fats are for animals, and we are animals.

胆固醇是动物脂肪，而植物固醇是植物脂肪。

So cholesterol is animal fat, and phytosterol is plant fat.

有证据表明，如果我们试图用过多植物固醇构建身体，可能会引发问题。

And there's some evidence that shows that phytosterol, if we try and build our body with too much phytosterol, it can cause problems.

例如，有证据显示摄入更多植物固醇的人，其心脏瓣膜周围会沉积更多这类物质。

Like, there's evidence that people who ate more phytosterol had more of that phytosterol deposited around the valves of the heart.

因为身体无法有效利用它，所以它就会滞留在那里。

Because the body can't use it as well, so it just gets stuck by it.

有研究表明，当我们的红细胞由过多的植物甾醇而非胆固醇构成时，它们会变得僵硬，使我们更容易中风。因为当红细胞试图通过毛细血管时，它们需要像单列纵队一样行进，并且需要稍微弯曲才能通过。

There's another there's some research that shows that when our red blood cells are made of too much phytosterol rather than cholesterol, they become rigid and make us more prone to stroke, because when the red blood cell is trying to get through those capillaries, it has to go, like, literally single file, and it has to bend a little bit to go through those capillaries.

嗯，所以当它们变得 rigid 时， they can't do that and that can cause damage to the arteries and the capillaries and lead to mini strokes and otherally bad things.

And if it's rigid, it can't do that, and that can create damage to those capillaries so you can create these little mini strokes and stuff.

所以我认为我们可以适量摄入一些植物脂肪，像牛油果油、鸡蛋、牛油果、橄榄、橄榄油这些纯净且未被植物油污染的都没问题，但我们真正应该使用的是动物脂肪。

So, think that we can handle some amount of plant fat, and I think that avocado oil, egg avocados, olives, olive oils, all that's pure and not contaminated with vegetable oils, like, are fine, but we're really supposed to use animal fats.

这才是关键。而高温、问题所在——我们接触植物甾醇的主要来源是植物油和所有含有这些成分的加工食品。

That's the main thing, and the heat, the issue, the main issue with our phytostrol exposure is vegetable oils and all the processed foods that have those in them.

但你说得对，2020年确实发表过一篇名为《对饱和脂肪的重新评估》的研究，该研究基本结论是：综合所有证据来看，我们夸大了饱和脂肪的危害范围，实际上根本没有证据支持需要惧怕它。研究还指出，适量饱和脂肪反而具有预防中风的作用——就像我刚才说的，如果摄入过多植物脂肪，反而会因为制造出僵化的红细胞而增加中风风险。

But yes, you're right, I think there's, I mean, there's even, but there's even a study published in 2020 called a reassessment of saturated fat, and it basically found that if you look at all the evidence, we've overblown the sphere of saturated fat, there's really no evidence for it, or to fear it, and there's and it said that an actual saturated fat has some protective effects against stroke, which I just talked about, you know, and we build too much plant fat, we are predisposing to stroke because we're creating rigid red blood cells.

这方面证据很多，不过我喜欢用具体事例说明。由于胆固醇被强行与心脏病挂钩——当时人们急于寻找答案，妮娜·泰克修兹的著作对这个内幕进行了精彩揭露，推荐大家深入阅读。

So there's lots of evidence, but, you know, I like to illustrate these things, and it, like, I think that because cholesterol got so associated with heart disease, because they were looking for an answer, and, like, Nina Teischult's book is really good expose on this whole story, so people really wanna dig into that.

她的《大脂肪惊喜》写得非常好，我在自己书里也讨论过。书中揭示了胆固醇如何成为替罪羊，由于胆固醇存在于食物中，我们可能把心脏病与饮食的讨论引向了错误方向。

Her book, The Big Fat Surprise, is really good, and I talk about it in my book too, but it shows that cholesterol was kind of blamed, and because cholesterol is in food, we may have had conversation about heart disease about food, and I think it's the wrong conversation to be having.

我认为食物或饮食既不是导致心脏病的主因，也不是预防心脏病的主要手段。

I don't think that food or diet is the main contributor or main way you're gonna prevent heart disease.

我的意思是，饮食不会成为引发心脏病的决定性因素。

I mean, it's not the main thing that's gonna cause your heart disease.

如果是加工食品为主的饮食，确实可能成为诱因之一。

It can be a contributor if it's a processed food diet.

充满炎症因子和毒素的饮食当然会有影响，但我认为这仍然不是主要驱动因素。

The inflammatory, full of toxins, all this stuff, yes, it's gonna contribute, but it's still not gonna be the driver, I don't think.

我认为红外线照射不足、其他毒素暴露以及机体修复能力的缺失才是更关键的因素。

I think lack of infrared light, other toxin exposures, and the inability to heal those things is more important.

但基于我们掌握的人类学数据，我确实认为动物性食物是人类的最佳选择，这符合人类历史上的饮食传统。

So but I do think that animal foods are the best food for humans based on anthropological data that we have, what humans were eating historically.

甚至我知道有些人会查阅圣经，认为圣经在告诉我们应该多吃肉，并以此作为论据。

Even I know there's people that even that that look at the bible and say the bible is telling us that we should eat more meat, and they make that argument.

有位叫凯特·欧文斯的女孩就这个主题写过一本书。

This is one girl named Kat Owens that had wrote a book about that.

总之这类观点很重要，但通过这个问题我真正想阐明的是——就像我们早前讨论的——人们为何如此执着于单一因素，比如血液中的脂质、饱和与不饱和脂肪的对比，而我们现有的文献研究却呈现两种截然不同的结论。

So, anyways, that kind of stuff's important, but what I really want to illustrate here with this question is, you know, I just like we were talking about earlier, how people get so focused on this one thing, like the lipids in the blood, or saturated versus unsaturated fat, or and we have all this literature that shows both ways.

我们有文献表明LDL水平是诱因，也有文献表明无关，或只是存在相关性。

You know, we have literature that shows that LDL levels cause it and that they don't, or that they're associated.

我不会说存在因果关系，但文献显示有关联性，又显示无关联性，饱和脂肪有时相关有时无关。

I wouldn't say caused, but they're associated and they're not associated, or saturated fats associated or it's not associated.

我们拥有所有这些矛盾的研究文献。

We have all this literature.

正如你所说，当看到这些相互矛盾的文献时，人们只会感到困惑。

So if you have all this literature showing all these different things and it's conflicting, like you said, you're just like, I'm confused.

我受够了，我厌倦了这一切。

I'm confed I'm fed up with it.

对我来说，这意味着我们问错了问题。

To me, that means we're asking the wrong question.

对吧？

Right?

所以，我最喜欢的科学家之一是阿尔伯特·圣捷尔吉，他说大自然会以智慧的方式回答智慧的问题。

So, like, one of my favorite scientists is Albert Szandorgi, and he says that nature answers intelligent questions intelligently.

因此如果答案不存在，那一定是问题本身有问题。

So if there's no answer exists, something must be wrong with the question.

我认为这正是困扰我们社会的问题。

And I think that that's plaguing our society.

我看到所有这些争论，人们为饱和脂肪或关于低密度脂蛋白的不同研究争吵不休，我就觉得你们根本没抓住重点。

And I see all these x battles, people are arguing about saturated fat or different studies about LDL, and I'm just like, you're missing the point.

大自然会用智慧回答你的问题，这意味着答案就在自然中，而我们却试图把问题局限在研究的某个细枝末节上，纠结这是否是原因或影响因素。

Nature answers your questions intelligently, which means nature has the answers, and we're trying to, you know, put it down to this minutiae, into this one aspect of things in this study, and trying to flesh out if this is the cause or not or if it's contributor.

这就像是，那样永远也找不到答案。

It's just like, that's never gonna tell you the answer.

这根本行不通。我认为这确实印证了某些道理，让我们在自然、上帝、爱或无论你称之为什么面前保持谦卑。

It's just not trying And I think that this really backs things up, and it makes us be humble before nature or God or love or whatever it may be, whatever you call it.

你知道，这让我们在那些力量面前保持谦卑，因为我们意识到我们需要回归本源，停止自以为比自然或上帝更聪明的想法，停止认为凭借我们发明的科学就能解决一切。我们需要承认：嘿，你知道吗？

You know, it makes us humble before that because we realize that we just need to go back to that, and we need to stop thinking that we are smarter than nature or God or whatever, and try and we can figure it out with our our science that we invented, and we just need to say, hey, you know what?

答案就在这里。按照我的哲学理念，我去践行它，然后当我真正查阅文献时，发现有许多证据支持这一点。我就会感叹：哦，原来文献里也早有记载。这是我们已有的哲学智慧，是我们直觉上知道的东西，但在文献中也能找到佐证。看看阳光对内皮细胞的影响，多么美妙。

The answers are here, and then for my philosophy, I go and do that, and then I actually go look in the literature and there's things that reinforce that, and I'm like, oh, it's here too, you know, it's this philosophy we've had, things that we kind of intuitively know, but it's also there in the literature too, you look at sunlight's effect on endothelial cells, it's beautiful.

看看红外线桑拿对内皮细胞的作用，多么美妙。

You look at infrared sauna's effect on endothelial cells, it's beautiful.

就像这样才是最合理的解释，而这一切都明明白白地摆在我们面前。

It's like this makes the most sense, and it's all right there before us.

我是个非常崇尚灵性的人，虽然我无法用科学依据来证明这一点，但我始终相信上帝早已为我们准备了应对一切问题的解药，它们就存在于世间——可能有些人不爱听这话。

I'm a super spiritual guy, so I I I don't have science to back this up, but I will always say that God put something here to treat anything that came up or that that that it's sitting here for us, and some people might not like that.

抱歉，但这就是我的信仰。

I'm sorry, but that's my belief.