The Economics of Everyday Things - 82. 连锁餐厅食谱 封面

82. 连锁餐厅食谱

82. Chain Restaurant Recipes

本集简介

一家快餐店的汉堡必须在每天数千次供应时保持相同的口味和价格。扎克·克罗克特负责炸薯条的工作。本集最初于2025年3月2日发布。 由Simplecast制作,AdsWizz旗下公司。有关我们如何收集和使用个人数据用于广告的信息,请访问 pcm.adswizz.com。

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乍一看,纽约市西村的Shake Shack和其他快餐休闲餐厅没什么两样。

At first glance, the Shake Shack in New York City's West Village looks like any other fast casual restaurant.

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透过窗户往里看,你会看到顾客在吃汉堡、鸡肉三明治和波浪薯条。

When you peek through the window, you'll see customers eating burgers, chicken sandwiches, and crinkle cut french fries.

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但在建筑的后部,你会发现一段楼梯,通往一个秘密厨房。

But in the back of the building, you'll find a staircase that leads down to a secret kitchen.

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就在这下面,城市的地下,厨师们正忙着研发Shake Shack的下一个重磅菜单。

Down here, underneath the city, chefs are busy inventing Shake Shack's next big menu item.

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新菜品的灵感可以来自任何地方、任何人。

The ideas for a new item can come from anywhere, anyone.

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创新厨房就是我们剖析这些想法、寻找探索途径的地方。

The Innovation Kitchen is the place we'll dissect those ideas and look for ways in which we can explore them.

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这位是约翰·卡兰吉斯,Shake Shack的烹饪创新副总裁。

That's John Karangis, the vice president of culinary innovation at Shake Shack.

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他负责这家连锁餐厅在全球近600家门店的菜单。

He's in charge of the menu at the restaurant chain's nearly 600 locations worldwide.

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他管理着一个大约十人的团队,他们在这家连锁店的试验厨房工作,很多招牌汉堡就是在这里诞生的。

He oversees a team of around 10 people who work in the chain's test kitchen, the place where many of their famous burgers are born.

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我比较偏爱Smoke Shack,那是一款美味又简单的培根芝士汉堡。

I kinda gravitate to the Smoke Shack, which is a delicious, simple bacon cheeseburger.

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哦,对。

Oh, yeah.

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上面放了些樱桃辣椒,刚好带来一点辣味和酸味,平衡了油腻感。

It has some cherry peppers on it, which gives it just the right amount of heat and acidity to balance out some of the richness.

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做培根芝士汉堡听起来可能不难,但要创造出一道美味的新菜品,并且能在全球每天成千上万次地保持一致品质和成本效益,那就是另一回事了。

It might not seem so tough to cook up something like a bacon cheeseburger, but creating a delicious new menu item that can be served consistently and cost effectively thousands of times a day around the world, that's a different story.

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我们一直在调整、打磨、完善。

We're tweaking, we're honing, we're refining.

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这个过程需要多个团队的许多专家协作,确保一切都能顺利整合。

Our process requires lots of specialists from several teams to make sure it all comes together.

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从创意到真正上菜单,大约需要一年半的时间。

It takes about a year and a half from idea to actual launch on a menu.

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这里是《怪诞经济学》广播网,本期节目讲的是日常生活中的经济学。

For the Freakonomics Radio Network, this is the economics of everyday things.

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我是扎卡里·克罗克特。

I'm Zachary Crockett.

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今天我们要聊的是连锁餐厅的食谱。

Today, chain restaurant recipes.

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美国有超过一百万家餐厅。

There are more than a million restaurants in The United States.

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其中大多数是单店经营,比如你家附近的街边小馆子,或者本地那家意大利餐厅。

Most of them are single unit operations, like your neighborhood diner or your local Italian joint.

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这些餐厅在规划菜单时,灵活性会大一些。

These restaurants have a little flexibility when it comes to planning their menus.

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约翰·卡兰吉斯说,因为产量相对较小,店主可以端出祖传秘方的菜,或者每隔几周就换一次菜单。

John Carangis says that the relatively small production volume allows owners to serve a dish based on a family recipe or switch up the menu every few weeks.

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如果你是独立餐厅,可能只有一两个人负责做饭,而且通常做饭的人就是负责采购食材的人。

If you're an independent restaurant, you may have one or two people that are responsible for cooking, and usually the person that's cooking is purchasing the ingredients.

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但美国也有超过13.7万家餐厅属于大型连锁品牌。

But America is also home to more than a 137,000 restaurants that are a part of a big chain.

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比如芝士蛋糕工厂、橄榄园、麦当劳、塔可钟或者Shake Shack。

Think The Cheesecake Factory, Olive Garden, McDonald's, Taco Bell, or Shake Shack.

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它们的烹饪流程看起来大不相同。

And their cooking process looks a lot different.

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当你开始扩展到不同的经营点、不同的州、不同的国家时,你是在以极高的规模生产食品。

When you start branching out into different operations, different states, different countries, you are producing food at such a high scale.

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有很多变量会参与其中。

There's a lot of variables that come into play.

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像Shake Shack这样的连锁餐厅必须生产极其大量的食物。

A restaurant chain like Shake Shack has to produce extraordinarily large quantities of food.

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在其各个门店,每天要供应数千个汉堡。

Across its locations, it serves thousands of burgers a day.

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每一个汉堡都必须保持一致,既要在品质上让顾客满意,也要在成本上让连锁店可控。

Every single one of those burgers has to be consistent, both in terms of quality for the customer and cost for the chain.

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所以,要在菜单上增加一个新菜品,需要做很多准备工作。

So introducing a new item to the menu requires a lot of planning.

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在Shake Shack,菜单开发通常从市场团队开始。

At Shake Shack, the menu development process typically begins with the marketing team.

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他们不断关注消费趋势和社交媒体,寻找下一个热门单品。

They constantly scan through consumer trends and social media to find the next hot item.

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如果某样东西在社交媒体上被分享,或者某些东西反响很好,我们会尽一切努力去评估,然后去探索它。

If something is being shared on social, if there's been a lot of great reaction to certain things, we'll do everything we can to evaluate that, and we'll explore it.

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我们会烹饪这个菜品。

We'll cook the item.

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我们会品尝它。

We'll taste it.

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我们会讨论它。

We'll discuss it.

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接下来,一个潜在的菜单菜品会进入Shake Shack的创新厨房,那是一个烹饪实验室,他们会在那里尝试不同的食材和配方。

From there, a potential menu item will go to Shake Shack's innovation kitchen, a culinary Frankenstein lab, where they'll experiment with different ingredients and recipes.

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如果我们打算开发一系列冬季柑橘饮品,那我们可能会先做出八到十种不同的、让人眼前一亮、色彩丰富、味道好的饮品,而且我们得确保这些是顾客愿意从我们这里购买的。

If we're gonna develop a trio of winter citrus beverages, then we would go and develop maybe eight to 10 different exciting, colorful, flavorful beverage items, and we'd wanna make sure that these are items that guests would wanna purchase from us.

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Shake Shack 通过内部焦点小组和员工调查来评估这一点。

Shake Shack assesses this by running internal focus groups and surveys with its employees.

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这家公司还在其测试厨房的正上方设有一家真正的餐厅。

The company also has a real restaurant right above its test kitchen.

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有时候,他们会把新东西放到菜单上,看看反响如何。

And on occasion, they'll put something new on the menu to see what kind of reception it gets.

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但除了顾客对新菜单项目的反应之外,还有很多实际的考虑因素。

But there are also a slew of practical considerations that go beyond how customers react to a new menu item.

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首先,新菜品必须经过供应链团队的审核。

For starters, a new dish has to be vetted by the supply chain team.

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他们负责采购食谱所需的原料,并将其分发到所有门店。

They're responsible for procuring ingredients for recipes and distributing them to all locations.

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如果他们无法为每家餐厅提供质量一致的原料,那么该产品可能就不会出现在菜单上。

And if they can't get an ingredient of consistent quality to every restaurant, the product might not make it to the menu.

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我们提出了一个受高端牛排馆启发的三明治概念。

We presented a sandwich concept that was inspired by the high end steakhouse.

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你经常能看到西洋菜直接生吃,就摆在漂亮的肋眼牛排旁边。

And you often see watercress serves raw and unadulterated right alongside a beautiful rib eye steak.

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我就觉得,如果我们做汉堡的话,在上面加点西洋菜也挺合理的。

And I just thought it made sense if we were gonna make a burger to add a little bit of watercress on top of it.

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它有一种很棒的胡椒味,口感也很好,但我们在全国不是所有地方都能拿到这种菜。

It has this great peppery flavor profile and has great texture and such, but we couldn't get it in all parts of our country.

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我们试过不同的生菜,但对我们来说不太合适。

We tried different lettuce and just didn't make sense for us.

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所以我们现在就卡在这了。

And so we're stuck on that right now.

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另一个重要的考虑因素是食材的成本。

Another major consideration is the cost of ingredients.

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因为生产规模很大,选一种每颗贵10美分的生菜,可能会带来相当大的财务影响。

Because of the sheer scale of production, choosing a lettuce that's 10¢ more per head could have a sizable financial impact.

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我们在一个小摊上就能卖出几百份单品。

We sell hundreds of one item in a shack.

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如果把总量加起来看,只要能在某个环节省下成本,我们都会抓住每个机会仔细评估。

And if you sort of aggregate that out and you can find a savings some way, we wanna take every opportunity to evaluate that really closely.

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卡兰吉斯说,Shake Shack的厨师们常常得想办法在控制成本的同时,保证食材的高品质。

Carangis says the chefs at Shake Shack often have to find ways to include high quality ingredients without breaking the bank.

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如果他们想开发一款柑橘类饮品,想让顾客尝到非常昂贵的柚子柠檬的味道,他们可能会调配出一种更实惠的混合饮品。

If they're developing a citrus juice and wanna give customers a taste of very expensive yuzu lemon, they might create a more affordable blend.

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总有创意的方法能让客人享受到高端食材。

There are creative ways to make a luxury item accessible for our guests.

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比如一种日本柑橘,可能会和橘子混合,这样就能做出一款令人兴奋的柑橘饮品,虽然不全是昂贵的原料,但用量足以提升风味。

A Japanese citrus fruit, maybe that gets blended with a mandarin orange, and then you have a really exciting citrus beverage that isn't all of the expensive ingredient, but has enough of it to enhance its flavor profile.

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卡兰吉斯说,这个挑战最近就出现过,当时他在Shake Shack的团队开发了三款特色汉堡,里面加入了黑松露,这种食材每磅可以卖到几百甚至几千美元。

Karanjes says this challenge came up recently when his team at Shake Shack developed three specialty burgers incorporating black truffle, an ingredient that can sell for hundreds or even thousands of dollars per pound.

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我知道不能用每磅三千美元的松露来做酱汁,但酱汁的基底其实叫“杜塞尔”,是用真正的国产蘑菇打成泥做成的。

I knew you couldn't use a $3,000 a pound truffle to make a sauce out of, but the base of the sauce is actually what they call a duxelle, which is using real domestic mushrooms and making a puree out of them.

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所以当时的想法是,如果我们用国产蘑菇做蘑菇泥,再加上优质的天然松露油,把它们混合均匀,就能做出美味的酱汁。

So the thought there was if we make a duxelle using domestic mushrooms and we got a really good all natural truffle oil, we can homogenize them and make a delicious sauce with them.

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我们把它们放进搅拌机,像做蛋黄酱一样慢慢淋入油,以蘑菇泥为基底,很快你就能得到一份浓郁、丝滑、口感丰富、充满鲜味的新鲜松露酱。

We put it in a blender and we drizzle the oil in as if you were making a mayonnaise with that duxelle mushroom as the base, and before you know it, you have this rich, creamy, unctuous, umami bomb of fresh truffle.

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但是,从菜单项目上盈利,不仅仅取决于食材成本。

But turning a profit on a menu item is about more than the cost of ingredients.

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一个成功的配方还必须能够快速且稳定地制作。

A successful recipe also has to be cooked quickly and consistently.

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要在数百家门店、数千名不同的餐饮员工中实现这一点,可不是件容易的事。

And pulling this off at hundreds of locations with thousands of different food service employees can be a tall order.

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如果你有200家门店都在称糖,每家都少一盎司,那每天就是200盎司,对吧?

If you've got 200 locations weighing sugar, and they're all off an ounce, that's 200 ounces every day, right?

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这个数字累积起来就很可观了。

The numbers add up.

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这个稍后再说。

That's coming up.

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有些连锁餐厅,比如Shake Shack,喜欢把所有菜品研发都放在内部进行,但其他一些则选择引入外部帮助。

Some restaurant chains, like Shake Shack, prefer to do all of their recipe development in house, but others choose to bring in outside help.

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我叫沃尔特·佐罗姆斯基。

My name is Walter Zoromsky.

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我是厨师服务集团的老板兼首席烹饪官,公司位于西佛罗里达的罗通达。

I'm the owner and chief culinary officer of the Chef Services Group located in Rotunda, West Florida.

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佐罗姆斯基从小在罗得岛州他家的家庭餐馆里长大。

Zoromsky grew up working in his family's diner in Rhode Island.

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他在纽约上了烹饪学校,然后在酒店餐厅一步步晋升,在那里学会了大规模烹饪的技巧。

He went to culinary school in New York, then worked his way through the ranks in hotel restaurants, where he learned the art of cooking in huge volumes.

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过去三十年里,他一直担任餐厅顾问。

For the past thirty years, he's been a restaurant consultant.

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我们要么编写食谱或配方,要么采购原料以改善功能性、质量和盈利能力。

We're either writing a recipe, a formula, or we're sourcing ingredients to improve functionality, quality, and profitability.

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有很多事情需要考虑,比如人员配置、技能水平、采购流程,以及他们采购什么样的原材料。

There's a lot of things that have to be considered, you know, the staffing, the skill sets, their procurement practices, what kind of raw materials they bring into the building.

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设备不同,能力也不同,所有这些都得考虑进去。

There's different equipment and different capabilities, and all of that has to be measured.

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当你想到在餐厅最喜欢的一餐时,你会想到味道、口感、外观,甚至可能想到它有多管饱。

When you think about your favorite meal at a restaurant, you think about the taste, texture, appearance, maybe even how much it'll fill you up.

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但佐罗姆斯基把每一盘食物都看作一个方程式。

But Zoromsky sees each plate of food as an equation.

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说到餐厅级别的菜品研发,这涉及到摆盘和备餐。

When you think about recipe development on a restaurant level, it involves the plate and the prep.

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比如说,就是一个俱乐部三明治,你知道的。

Say it's just a club sandwich, you know.

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俱乐部三明治有面包。

So a club sandwich has bread.

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有生菜、番茄、培根、蛋黄酱,可能还有火鸡或鸡肉。

It has lettuce, tomato, bacon, mayonnaise, and it may be turkey or chicken.

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这就是你的摆盘配方。

That's your plate build recipe.

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而且所有这些食材都得有精确的用量,放到盘子里,这样才能控制成本,符合成本标准。

And all those ingredients have to have specific amounts that go on the plate so that it's managed and the cost parameters are adhered to.

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佐罗姆斯基说,连锁餐厅通常每道菜都有类似的操作手册。

Zoromsky says chain restaurants often have a manual of sorts for each dish.

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很多连锁店会制定摆盘标准,然后我们实际摆盘并拍照,确保一致性。

A lot of the chains will write a plate build, and then we'll actually plate it and take a picture of it to ensure consistency.

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然后我们还会编写服务培训手册。

And then we'll also write training manuals for service.

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这样服务员就知道盘子里有哪些过敏原,也知道上菜时该用什么餐具。

So the server knows what the allergens are on the plate, they'll know what utensils to serve with the dish.

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这些都是培训的一部分。

It's all part of the training.

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但厨房里很多提高效率的工作,其实都设计在食材本身里了。

But a lot of the work around efficiency in the kitchen is engineered into the ingredients themselves.

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连锁餐厅菜单上的很多菜品,都是用所谓的“速烹”技术来准备的,厨师会把新鲜食材和预制食材结合起来。

Elements of a chain restaurant's menu are often prepared with a cooking technique called speed scratch, where chefs will combine fresh and premade ingredients.

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比如说,与其完全从零开始做辣椒酱,连锁店可能会用某个品牌的牧场沙拉酱作为底料。

For example, instead of making a chipotle sauce entirely from scratch, the chain might use a name brand ranch dressing as a base.

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所以对于墨西哥或西南风味的快速烹饪,我们只需要在现成的牧场沙拉酱里加点辣椒底料、香菜和青柠汁就行了。

So speed scratch for, you know, a Mexican or a Southwestern type of flavor profile, all we have to do is add some chipotle base, some cilantro lime juice to the ranch dressing that's already made.

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像羊角面包或披萨面团这样的东西,可能会批量订购,部分烘烤后冷冻。

Something like a croissant or a pizza dough might be ordered in bulk, partially baked and frozen.

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然后我们会用快速烹饪烤箱来加热。

And we're gonna cook it in a rapid cooking oven.

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你可能见过这种烤箱。

You've probably seen them.

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它们叫Turbo Chef,像Dunkin' Donuts和星巴克都在用。

They're called Turbo Chefs, Dunkin' Donuts, and Starbucks.

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它们一分钟就能把你的鸡蛋三明治加热好,而且滚烫,因为它们结合了微波加热和冲击加热,这样你既能得到冲击加热带来的焦黄效果,又能通过微波让热量渗透进去。

You know, they zap your egg sandwich in a minute, and it's boiling hot because they use microwave heat and impingement heat so that you get the browning from the impingement, and then you get the heat penetration from the microwave.

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所以,你可以在1分30秒内烤好一个披萨。

And so you can cook a pizza in a minute and thirty seconds.

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而且在大多数快餐店里,肉很可能也不是在那里做的。

And at most quick service restaurants, it's likely the meat wasn't cooked there either.

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生鸡肉的保质期很短,而且处理起来有点麻烦。

Raw chicken just has only a limited shelf life, and it's a bit to handle.

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所以很多连锁餐厅都直接采购完全煮熟的鸡肉。

So a lot of the restaurant chains are sourcing a fully cooked chicken.

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他们不在门店里自己煮。

They're not cooking it at the store level.

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塔可钟的塔可肉是由生产商制造的,因为他们要消耗几百万磅的肉,基本上就是加热一下就能上桌。

Taco Bell has their taco meat manufactured by a producer because they go through millions of pounds of meat and basically, they heat it to prepare it so it's ready.

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几年前,佐罗姆斯基被一家连锁餐厅请去改进海鲜浓汤的配方。

A few years ago, Zoromsky was hired by a restaurant chain to improve a recipe for seafood chowder.

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这家连锁店每年要准备大约三万磅的汤,而且所有准备工作都是在厨房里现场完成的。

The chain was preparing around 30,000 pounds of the soup each year, and everything was being prepped on-site in the kitchens.

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他们要加入奶油、鱼肉、蛤蜊汤和土豆。

They're bringing in, you know, cream, fish, the clam broth, potatoes.

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大概有十一种配料。

There's like 11 ingredients.

Speaker 2

这些都是他们各个门店采购的原材料,想想看,就为了做这一道汤,他们得经过多少道工序。

That's all the raw materials that they were bringing in, all their locations, and think about all the touch points that they have just to make that one soup.

Speaker 2

所以我就去了他们的餐厅。

So what I did was I went into their restaurant.

Speaker 2

我们把汤做出来了。

We made the soup.

Speaker 2

我了解了他们的做法,然后根据他们的汤,我们制定了一个可以规模化生产的配方。

I understood what they did, and we made a scalable formula out of their soup.

Speaker 0

佐罗姆斯基帮助这家连锁店开发了一种煮后冷却的汤品版本。

Zoromsky helped the chain create a cook chill version of its soup.

Speaker 0

这种汤不再在门店现场准备,而是在食品加工厂大批量烹制,然后冷冻配送到各餐厅,餐厅只需解冻加热就能上桌。

Rather than being prepped on-site, it was cooked in bulk at a food manufacturing facility and distributed to the restaurants frozen, where it only had to be thawed and heated before being served.

Speaker 2

我们做了冷冻解冻测试,基本上,这个汤经受住了所有这些流程的考验,然后我们把这道汤的准备工序从十家餐厅里移除了。

We went through a freeze thaw test, and basically, the soup stood the test of all of those processes, and we took the prep of that soup out of 10 restaurants.

Speaker 2

我们把库存降到了只剩一种原料,而不是原来的12种,这样他们的成本效益就合理了。

We minimized the inventory to just one ingredient versus, like, 12, and the economics worked for them.

Speaker 2

他们拿这个汤去推广,结果非常成功。

They took that soup and they ran with it, and it was very successful.

Speaker 0

在连锁餐厅吃饭时,你可能会注意到菜单上很多不同的菜都用同样的食材。

When you're at a chain restaurant, you might notice that the same ingredients feature in a lot of different dishes on the menu.

Speaker 0

这是出于财务考虑,是佐罗姆斯基所说的“价值工程”的结果。

That's a financial decision, the result of a process that Zoromsky calls value engineering.

Speaker 2

采购食材时,你不想让单一用途的食材进入库存。

When you're buying ingredients, you don't want single use ingredients being brought in on your inventory.

Speaker 2

如果是鱿鱼,而且菜单上只有一个地方用到,你又不是做海鲜意面,把鱿鱼加进去,或者把它当开胃菜,那就别进鱿鱼,因为它得在别的地方用掉。

If it is calamari and it's only in one place on the menu, and you're not, like, doing a seafood pasta and incorporating calamari into the seafood pasta and serving calamari as an appetizer, then don't bring calamari in because it needs to be used somewhere else.

Speaker 0

连锁店可能会提前以固定价格大量采购食材,以对冲未来供应链问题,比如墨西哥牛油果被加征关税,或者禽流感导致鸡蛋短缺。

Chains might buy large quantities of ingredients in advance at a fixed price to hedge against any future supply chain issues, like, say, a tariff placed on Mexican avocados or a bird flu that causes a shortage of eggs.

Speaker 0

佐罗姆斯基说,像批量订购龙虾这类东西时,连锁店可能还能协商定制包装方案,从而节省金钱和时间。

Zoromsky says when ordering something like lobster in bulk, a chain might also be able to negotiate custom packing options that can save money and time.

Speaker 2

我记得有一次跟供应商聊天,我跟他说,听着,我需要你把蟹钳、蟹爪、蟹关节和蟹腿肉都打包成一磅一袋的,给我们餐厅用。

I can remember having a conversation with a supplier, and I said to him, look, I need you to pack the CKL, claw, knuckle, leg meat in one pound packages for our restaurants.

Speaker 2

哦,我们只做三磅一袋的。

Oh, we only do three pound packages.

Speaker 2

我说,那如果我保证每个月给你四万磅的龙虾呢?

I said, what if I could guarantee you 40,000 pounds a month of lobster?

Speaker 2

你会不会改变主意,给我一磅一袋的?

Would you change your mind and give me a one pound packet?

Speaker 2

我们会打包成一磅的。

We'll pack it in one pound.

Speaker 2

我们会打包成八盎司的。

We'll pack it in an eight ounce.

Speaker 2

您想要什么规格都行,大厨。

We'll pack it in whatever you want, chef.

Speaker 2

没问题。

No problem.

Speaker 2

事情就是这样。

End of story.

Speaker 0

在Shake Shack,约翰·卡兰吉斯说,即使一切顺利,设计一个新菜单项目成本也很高,这家连锁店在投入这笔投资时往往比较谨慎。

At Shake Shack, John Carangis says that even if everything goes smoothly, designing a new menu item is costly, and the chain tends to be cautious about making that investment.

Speaker 1

如果你在菜单上堆太多东西,可能会拖慢出餐速度。

If you just inundate your menu with too many things, it could slow down production.

Speaker 1

可能会影响运营。

It could hamper the operation.

Speaker 1

所以总是要在尽可能为客人提供多样化的菜品和避免造成任何负面体验之间找到平衡。

So there's always that push and pull of doing everything we can to offer a variety of items for our guests, but do it in a way where it doesn't create or allow for any negative experiences.

Speaker 0

但沃尔特·佐罗姆斯基说,所有的配方测试、供应链协调和厨房培训,相对于为食客提供令人兴奋的新菜单选项来说,只是相对较小的代价。

But Walter Zoromsky, he says that all the recipe testing, supply chain wrangling, and kitchen training is a relatively small price to pay for giving diners an exciting new menu option.

Speaker 0

毕竟,即使是最经济实惠、销量最高的汉堡,其复杂程度也是有限的。

After all, even the most economical and high volume hamburger can only be so complicated.

Speaker 2

这又不是什么高深莫测的事。

I mean, it's not rocket science.

Speaker 2

我们又不是要发射火箭上月球什么的。

You know, we're not sending rockets to the moon or anything.

Speaker 2

说到底,这也就是做吃的而已。

It's just food at the end of the day.

Speaker 0

这里是《日常事物的经济学》,我是扎卡里·克罗克特。

For The Economics of Everyday Things, I'm Zachary Crockett.

Speaker 0

本期节目由摩根·利维和莎拉·莉莉制作,杰里米·约翰斯顿负责混音。

This episode was produced by Morgan Levy and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston.

Speaker 0

丹尼尔·莫里茨·拉普索迪也给了我们不少帮助。

We had help from Daniel Moritz Rhapsody.

Speaker 2

我想我多少已经透露了一些答案,因为我不能违反我的保密协议。

I guess I'm kinda alluding some of the answers because I can't breach my NDA.

Speaker 0

这里是《怪诞经济学》广播网,带你探索万物背后隐藏的一面。

The Freakonomics Radio Network, the hidden side of everything.

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