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今天在《检查室》节目中。
Today on The Exam Room.
我们有没有直接对比数据，显示饮食疗法在降低胆固醇方面与他汀类药物相比的效果如何？
Do we have a head to head comparison in terms of how effective a dietary approach is compared to statins for lowering cholesterol?
就估算绝对风险降低而言，最接近的数据来自埃塞尔斯廷的案例研究。
The closest we have in terms of kind of estimating the absolute risk reduction would be on the Esselstyn case studies.
他们收治了100多名患有这种顽固性心脏病的患者。
Took over a 100 patients with this really kinda intractable heart disease.
医生们基本上把最棘手的病人都扔给了可怜的埃塞尔斯廷，而他让这些患者采用健康饮食。
Doctors basically dumped their worst patients onto poor Esselstyn, who put them on a healthy diet.
但你可以比较那些真正坚持饮食疗法的人和那些拒绝改变饮食的人。
But you could compare those that actually stuck with the diet versus those who were like, nah, forget diet.
基本上，这种饮食改变带来的益处大约是药物的10倍——这甚至算不上生活方式改变，只是转向了全食物植物性饮食，效果却比药物好10倍。
So basically there's like 10 times greater benefit for that dietary change, which wasn't a lifestyle change, it was really just changing to a whole food plant based diet, appeared to be 10 times more effective than what you'd see with drugs.
当然，你还额外获得了有益的副作用。
And of course, you just get the beneficial side effect.
欢迎收听由医师委员会带来的《诊室》播客。
Welcome to The Exam Room podcast brought to you by the Physicians Committee.
大家好，我是查克·卡罗尔，致力于从海岸到海岸乃至全球提升健康智商。
Hi, I'm Chuck Carroll, raising Health IQs coast to coast and around the world.
全球。
World.
向林肯市、内布拉斯加州、里诺市、内华达州以及西班牙巴伦西亚的诊室听众们问好。
Hi to the exam roomies listening in Lincoln, Nebraska, Reno, Nevada, and Valencia, Spain.
无论您身在何处，感谢您为让世界变得更健康贡献力量。
Wherever you are, we appreciate you helping to make the world a healthier place.
这是第八季第79期，总第67078期节目。
This is episode 79 of season eight, number six seventy seventy eight overall.
今天我们将深入探讨关乎您健康最重要的指标之一——胆固醇。
And today we are diving into one of the most important numbers for your health, your cholesterol.
与我们连线的是大名鼎鼎的博士。
And joining us is none other than Doctor.
迈克尔·格雷格。
Michael Greger.
你们都知道他，这位畅销书作家兼nutritionfacts.org的创始人。
You know him, the bestselling author and founder of nutritionfacts.org.
他今天将分享其新书《用食物自然降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇》中的突破性见解。
Well, he is here to share groundbreaking insights from his new book, Lower LDL Cholesterol Naturally with Food.
我们将共同探讨为何这种所谓的'坏胆固醇'低密度脂蛋白是心脏病的主要诱因，以及尽可能降低它如何能真正挽救生命。
And so together we will be exploring why LDL, this so called bad cholesterol, is the primary driver of heart disease and why lowering it as much as possible can literally save lives.
格雷格·希特博士今天还将揭示
Doctor.
经科学证实能降低胆固醇的最佳食物和香料，以及为何像添加豆类或大蒜粉这样微小的日常改变都能产生巨大影响，还有关于橄榄油、他汀类药物等更多令人惊讶的真相。
Gregory Heat today is also going to be revealing the top foods and spices that have been proven scientifically to reduce cholesterol and why even tiny daily changes like adding beans or garlic powder can make a huge impact and the surprising truth about olive oil, statins and a lot more.
所以我的朋友，如果你想获得科学支持的实用方法来保护心脏并延长寿命，这期节目正适合你。
So if my friend, you would like practical, science backed ways to protect your heart and live longer, this is for you.
一切精彩内容现在就开始，就在《检查室》节目。
And it all begins right now on The Exam Room.
欢迎回到节目，我的朋友。
Welcome back to the show, my friend.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
事实上，超过一亿人正在服用他汀类药物，还有更多人因为标准美国饮食而胆固醇偏高。
In fact, over a hundred million people are on statin drugs themselves and way more have high cholesterol because of the standard American diet.
噔噔噔噔。
Dun dun dun dun.
我懂，老兄。
I know, man.
说真的，每次有人提到标准美国饮食时，我们都该配上那种不祥的音乐。
That really we do need that ominous music to play every time somebody says the standard American diet.
那可是致命的东西，伙计。
It is a deadly thing, man.
确实如此。
It is indeed.
事实上，根据Goldbergner疾病研究——人类历史上规模最大的疾病风险因素研究，美国的死亡原因正是美国饮食。
In fact, according to the Goldbergner disease study, the largest study of disease risk factors in human history, the cause of death in This United States is the American diet.
相比之下，烟草每年仅导致约50万美国人死亡，而我们的饮食致死人数要多得多。
Bumping tobacco smoke to two cigarettes only kill about a half million Americans every year, whereas our diet kills many more.
因此，我们能为健康和长寿做出的最重要决定，就是选择给自己和家人吃什么。
So the single most important decision we can make in life for our health and longevity is what to feed ourselves and our families.
阿门，说得太对了。
Amen to that.
这就是你出版这本新书的原因：《用食物自然降低LDL胆固醇——将已验证的LDL降低方法融入日常生活的简单方法》。
And that's why you've got this new book out, Lower LDL Cholesterol Naturally with Food Simple Ways to Add Proven LDL Reducers to Your Everyday Routine.
除此之外，你还有10月10日这个大型研讨会，但必须在10月8日前注册。
And on top of that, you also have this big seminar coming up on October 10, but you have to register by October 8.
就是这些内容。_output数组必须严格保持8个元素
All about it.
为什么胆固醇现在成为你最想讨论的核心议题？
Why is cholesterol right now, like, at the forefront of what it is you wanna talk about?
好的。
Okay.
低密度脂蛋白胆固醇（坏胆固醇）是导致男性和女性头号杀手——心血管疾病的主要元凶。
LDL cholesterol or bad cholesterol is the primary driver of our primary killer of men and women cardiovascular disease.
好的。
Okay.
但这种情况已经持续了不是十年，而是整整一个世纪。
But it has for the last decade not the last decade, the last century.
现在有什么不同呢？
What is so different now?
过去我们曾为LDL胆固醇设定过目标值。
Well, there used to be targets for LDL cholesterol.
你知道，如果你尚未经历过心脏病发作或中风，也没有已知的心脏病，那么初级预防的LDL胆固醇目标值应该是70。
You know, for you know, if you haven't had a heart attack or stroke yet, you don't have known heart disease, then the target for primary prevention for LDL cholesterol was 70.
对吧？
Right?
将你的LDL胆固醇控制在70以下就不用担心了。
Get your LDL below 70 and don't worry about it.
把它从清单上划掉，去操心生活中其他事情吧，你本不必为胆固醇发愁。
Scratch it off the list, worry about other things in life, but you didn't have to worry about your cholesterol.
遗憾的是，所有指南都趋向于取消目标值，现在共识突然变成要将LDL降到尽可能低。
Unfortunately, all the guidelines have moved towards getting rid of targets, and now the consensus is all of a sudden get your LDL as low as possible.
不存在一个阈值，低于该值后继续降低LDL就不会进一步减少我们心脏病发作、中风和猝死的风险。
There's no threshold below which further LDL lowering won't further reduce our risk of heart attacks, strokes, sudden death.
我们意识到这点并非因为人们突然开始吃健康饮食能达到极低水平，而是因为除了支架外，新型降胆固醇药物能让人们的胆固醇降到极低，无论他们吃什么。
We realize this not because all of a sudden people ate really healthy diets and could get that low, there's these new classes of cholesterol lowering drugs beyond stents that can drive people's cholesterol exceedingly low, regardless of what people eat.
然后我们意识到：天啊，等等，原来越低越好。
And then we realize, oh my god, wait a second, The lower, the better.
所以等一下。
And so wait a second.
现在即使饮食健康的人也不能高枕无忧了。
Now no longer can people eating a healthy diet sit on their laurels.
对吧？
Right?
纯素食者的平均LDL约为68，正好达标。
The average LDL for a vegan, about 68, so nailed the target.
但突然间，即使你的胆固醇水平很好，它还可以更好，因为越低越好。
But all of a sudden, even if you have great cholesterol, it could be better because the lower, the better.
现在更多人没有被开具降胆固醇他汀类药物，嗯，等一下，如果每个人都能从降低LDL中受益，那是因为存在相关弊端，比如增加糖尿病风险，对吧？
Now the reason more people aren't aren't prescribed cholesterol lowering statin drugs, well, wait a second, if everyone could benefit from LDL lowering, is because of the associated drawbacks, such as the increased diabetes risk, right?
所以，药物仅限于那些风险足够高、利大于弊的人，对吧？
So, drugs are limited to those who have high enough risk that the pros outweigh the cons, right?
好吧，但如果我们能做些什么且没有任何弊端呢？
Okay, but what if there was something we could do that had no cons?
如果我们能采取安全、简单、无副作用的措施来降低LDL胆固醇，比如，你知道的，每天吃某些健康食品呢？
What if there were safe, simple, side effect free steps we could take to lower our LDL cholesterol, like, you know, eating certain healthy foods every day?
好吧，既然没有坏处，那么每个人都应该吃这些食物，尽可能降低LDL，不管他们是否在服药。
Okay, with no downsides, well then everyone should be eating them to get their LDL as low as possible, regardless of whether or not they're on medications or not.
这就是这本新书的主要内容。
And that's what the new book is all about.
在我们转向饮食方法之前，我想先问问你关于他汀类药物的问题。
You know, me ask you about statins here before we turn to the dietary approach.
你认为人们是否被过度开这种药了？
Do you think that people are overprescribed them?
因为我认识一个亲近的人，他中风了但没有高胆固醇，却被开了他汀类药物，还说需要终身服用，尽管已确定中风与荷尔蒙问题有关。
Because I know somebody close to me who had a stroke but did not have high cholesterol and then was prescribed statins and said you would need to be on them for the rest of your life even though they determined that the stroke had to do with, a hormonal thing.
基本上，他们对避孕药有不良反应。
Like, they had a bad reaction to birth control, essentially.
我只是很困惑为什么那个人会被开这种药。
And it just puzzled me why that person would have been prescribed.
我在想，这是否只是标准操作流程？
And I was just wondering, like, is this just a standard course of action?
哦，这个嘛，我是说，如果你中风或心脏病发作，那就没得商量了。
That oh, well, I mean, if you have a stroke or heart attack, then don't pass go.
别想拿到200美元。
Don't get $200.
你会立即得到一个降胆固醇他汀类药物的使用指征。
You immediately get an indication for a cholesterol lowering statin drop.
某些荷尔蒙变化会产生影响，比如同时服用避孕药会增加血液凝固性，即血液凝结的容易程度。
So what certain hormonal changes can do, like taking both birth control pills, it increases the coagulability, the clotting, how easily your ability of your blood clots.
这可能导致像中风这样的血栓性疾病。
And so that can lead to clotting diseases like a stroke.
另一个会增加血小板聚集性的因素，比如血小板结块、血液黏稠度或凝血效率的，就是高LDL胆固醇。
Another thing that can increase the platelet aggregability, like platelet clumping, this thickness or clotting efficiency of the blood, is having a high LDL cholesterol.
所以对于曾患中风或心脏病发作的人，即使不是直接由高胆固醇引起，医生也会担心未来再次发作，因此希望尽可能降低风险。
And so for someone who's had a stroke heart attack, even if it wasn't due directly to the high cholesterol, anyone who's had one in the past, they're concerned about a future one, so they want to reduce the risk as low as possible.
关于是否太多人被开具这些药物，我认为正反两方面都有道理。
In terms of whether too many people are prescribed these drugs, I think you can make arguments in both directions.
根据个人风险承受能力的不同，可以说这些药物既开得不够多，也开得太多。
Not enough people are prescribed these drugs, and too many people are prescribed these drugs depending on your own kind of risk tolerance.
如果你如实告知患者这些药物的实际效果相对有限，简单打个比方
So if you actually fully inform patients how relatively ineffective these drugs are, And just to give a a a, you know, a a little capsule.
通常你会听到这些药物能将心脏病发作风险降低百分之三十
So, you know, typically, you hear these, you know, drugs, you know, reduce your risk of having a heart attack by thirty percent.
这就是电视广告里宣传的效果
That's what the ads you see on TV say.
但那意味着在几年时间内，风险从百分之三降到百分之二
But that's, so that's like over a few year period having going from three percent risk down to a two percent risk.
确实风险降低了约三分之一，但绝对风险只减少了百分之一
And so that has indeed dropped risk by about a third, but the absolute risk reduction is only one percent.
在那段时间里，大约每百人中只有一人能从中获益
It's only about one in a hundred people over that time would benefit from taking these drugs.
如果充分告知人们这些药物的实际效果，75%的人会选择拒绝服用
If you fully inform people about how relatively ineffective these drugs are, seventy five percent of people refuse to take them.
因为根本不值得余生每天服药，也不值得冒副作用的风险
Because it's just it's just not worth taking a drug every day for the rest of your life, not worth risking side effects.
他们就是不会这么做。
They just won't do it.
好吧。
Okay.
现在这对医药行业来说是个问题，从个人角度来看这确实有道理。
Now that's a problem for the peep the so for that makes sense kind of from an individual standpoint.
对吧？
Right?
我会自己决定，对我来说这根本不值得。
I'm gonna decide that, you know, that to me, it's just not worth the benefit.
好吧。
Okay.
但如果所有人都这么做，如果目前75%的他汀类药物使用者都这么做，意味着将有数万人因此死亡。
But if everyone were to do that, if seventy five percent of statin users currently were to do that, I mean tens of thousands of people would die.
因为在人口规模上，即使每百人中只有一人受益，考虑到数百万高胆固醇患者，这将导致大量疾病和死亡。
Because on a population scale, even if one in a hundred people are benefited, I mean so many millions of people have high cholesterol, that could be a lot of disease and death.
所以医生们陷入了两难境地。
So doctors are in this bind.
这就是所谓的预防悖论。
It's what's called the prevention paradox.
医生们确实进退维谷。
Doctors are in this bind.
如果他们实话实说，如果完全告知患者这些药物的实际效果远不如大众想象，他们知道大多数患者都会拒绝用药。
If they actually are truthful, if they fully inform patients about how these drugs don't really work as well as most people think, then they know most patients are gonna say, no.
谢谢医生。
Thanks, doc.
好吧。
Okay.
但如果那个百分之一的患者，恰好是如果服药就能避免心脏病发作的人呢？
But what if that one that one person is the one hundred person that, you know, would have been spared a heart attack had they started those drugs?
想象一下作为医生的感受，对吧？
Imagine how you'd feel as a doctor, right?
而如果你夸大疗效、淡化风险，并大肆宣传这些药物以促使患者配药，那么你或许能挽救他们的生命。
Whereas if you bloat the benefits, minimize the risks, right, and kind of hype up these drugs to get patients to fill their prescriptions, then you could potentially save their lives.
但这种家长式的态度在我看来是——要知道，你的身体你做主。
But this kind of very paternalistic attitude is like, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it's your body, your choice.
人们应当充分了解利弊后自行做出决定。
People should be fully informed about the benefits and risks, and then make up their own mind.
遗憾的是，医生们在知情同意方面做得远远不够——患者不仅有权知道真相，更有权知道完整的真相，这意味着他们应该被告知药物的利弊以及饮食干预的益处。
Well, unfortunately so doctors, unfortunately, don't take this informed consent far enough in that people not only deserve the truth, they deserve the whole truth, meaning they should be told about the pros and cons of pills and the benefits of dietary interventions.
好，这是药物可能为你降低的风险比例。
Okay, here's how much pills may be able to reduce your risk.
这是改变饮食能为你降低的风险比例。
Here's how much diet changes in diet can reduce your risk.
这是药物的利弊对比，而健康饮食改变的'副作用'是——哦，糖尿病风险降低，而不是像药物那样增加糖尿病风险。
Okay, here's the pros and cons of the drugs, and here's the side effects of the healthy dietary changes, which are, oh, less diabetes, not increased diabetes with the pills.
要知道，还能降低一长串疾病的患病风险。
You know, less risk of a long list of diseases.
这样你就能获得益处而非负担。
And so you just get kind of benefits instead of the baggage.
因此不幸的是，医生们陷入了一个尴尬境地——他们某种程度上在扭曲事实以说服人们服用这些药物，而非全面告知患者药物与饮食干预的利弊。我想探究的是，无论是否服药，我们该如何通过饮食调整最大程度地降低低密度脂蛋白。
And so unfortunately, doctors are in this weird place where they're kind of twisting the truth to get people to take these pills instead of fully informing patients about drugs versus diet, and I wanted to find out how we could absolutely maximize dietary changes, regardless of whether or not you're on drugs, to lower LDL as much as possible.
好的。
Alright.
我们接下来就要讨论这些饮食调整方案。
And we're going get into those dietary changes.
但请允许我先问个问题。
But let me ask you first.
我的意思是，你刚才提到药物的潜在收益，但实际效果被压缩到了1%左右。
I mean, so you just talked about the potential benefit of the drug, and it's really reduced to like one percent.
在饮食干预与他汀类药物干预的效果上，是否存在一对一的对比数据？
Is there a one to one comparison in terms of efficacy for a dietary intervention versus that statin intervention?
嗯，要知道他汀类药物公司能够对数以千计的人群进行多年药物随机试验，毕竟这些是价值数十亿美元的药物。
Well, so if you, well, so the statin companies, you know, can randomize thousands of people to years of these drugs because these are multibillion dollar drugs.
事实上，立普妥是有史以来最畅销的药物，带来了数十亿美元的收益。
In fact, Lipitor is the best selling drug of all time, bringing literally billions of dollars.
因此他们有资金开展这些研究。
And so they have the money to run these studies.
现在我们已经有了随机对照试验，比如奥尼什健康饮食法，证明我们确实可能无需药物或手术，仅通过健康的植物性饮食和生活方式就能逆转病情发展，甚至打开动脉。
If you look at now we do have randomized controlled trials, obviously, of healthy diets like Ornish to prove that indeed we may be able to actually reverse the progression, open up arteries without drugs, without surgery, just with a healthy plant based diet and lifestyle.
在估算绝对风险降低方面，我们最接近的参考依据是埃塞尔斯廷案例理论。
The closest we have in terms of kind of estimating the absolute risk reduction would be on the Esselstyn case theories.
埃塞尔斯廷接收了100名病情最棘手的心脏病患者，医生们基本上把最棘手的病人都推给了他，而他让这些患者采用健康饮食。
Took over a 100 patients with this really kinda intractable heart disease where, you know, doctors basically dumped their worst patients onto poor Esselstyn who put them on a healthy diet.
但并非所有人都遵循了健康饮食的指导，所以我们有了这种自然实验的设置，尽管人们并非被随机分配是否采用该饮食方案。
But not everyone followed the instructions to go on a healthy diet, So we had this kind of natural experiment set up even though it was not people weren't randomized to eat the diet or not.
但你可以比较那些坚持饮食的人与那些拒绝饮食的人。
But you could compare those that actually stuck with the diet versus those who were like, nah, forget diet.
然后你就能看到显著差异。
And you could see the dramatic.
基本上，这种饮食改变带来的益处大约是药物的10倍，这并非生活方式的全面改变，而仅仅是转向全食物植物性饮食。
So basically, there's like 10 times greater benefit for that kind of dietary change, which wasn't a lifestyle change, was really just changing to a whole food plant based diet, appeared to be 10 times more effective, than what you'd see with drugs.
当然，你还会获得有益的副作用。
And of course, you just get the beneficial side effects.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
好的。
Alright.
让我们深入探讨一些具体细节。
Let's dive into some, specifics here.
关于低密度脂蛋白(LDL)。
Talking about LDL.
很自然地，我们需要讨论脂肪，特别是饱和脂肪。
So naturally, we're gonna bring fat into the conversation, specifically saturated fat.
植物性食物中的饱和脂肪与动物性食物中的饱和脂肪，在对人体胆固醇的影响方面有何异同？
The saturated fats that are found in plant foods versus those in animal foods, how do they compare and contrast when it comes to a person's cholesterol?
哦，两者都一样糟糕。
Oh, both just as bad.
所以，像椰子油这类罕见的植物性饱和脂肪，这些热带油脂——椰子油、棕榈油、棕榈仁油，在大量垃圾食品中都存在，它们提升胆固醇的效果和猪油、乳脂一样严重。
So, you know, something like coconut oil, which is these rare saturated plant fats, these tropical oils, coconut oil, palm oil, palm kernel oil, found a lot of junk food, raise your cholesterol as much as lard does, as much as butterfat does.
因此当我们说需要人们减少饱和脂肪摄入时，主要针对肉类和乳制品——我认为大部分饱和脂肪来源于此——但同时也包括那些添加了热带油脂的加工食品。
And so when we say we need people to cut down on saturated fat, we're talking about primarily meat and dairy, I think, where most of the saturated fat comes from, but also for some of these processed foods that have added tropical oils.
过去我重点关注那些会升高胆固醇、我们应尽量少吃的食物，比如饱和脂肪、反式脂肪和膳食胆固醇。
You know, in the past I focused on foods that raise our cholesterol that we should all try to minimize, like the saturated fat, trans fats, and dietary cholesterol.
胆固醇主要存在于鸡蛋中，但所有动物制品都含有。
You know, cholesterol found mostly in eggs but throughout all animal products.
反式脂肪现在主要来自动物制品。
Trans fats now mostly from animal products.
现在它们已基本从加工食品中剔除了。
Now that's been, removed largely from processed foods.
而饱和脂肪主要来自肉类和乳制品，但也存在于部分垃圾食品中。
And the saturated fat mostly from meat and dairy but also from some of those junk foods.
减少这些升高胆固醇的食物摄入，实际上能大幅降低我们的胆固醇水平，效果堪比他汀类药物的初始剂量。
Minimizing those foods that raise our cholesterol will dramatically reduce our cholesterol, in fact, can do so as much as kind of an introductory dose of a statin drug.
但这在过去已经足够有效了。
But that used to be enough.
但现在我们需要主动在饮食中添加能清除体内胆固醇的食物。
But now we need to go out of our way to actively add foods to our diet that pull cholesterol from our body.
这就是2003年由多伦多大学著名研究员David Jenkins博士提出的'组合饮食法'的理论基础。
That was the rationale behind the Portfolio Diet, which was, developed in 2003 by Doctor.
他基本上是说：我们采用植物性饮食，但要加入一系列通过不同机制降低胆固醇的食物组合。
David Jenkins, University of Toronto, famous, researcher, basically said, okay, let's do a plant based diet, but let's add a portfolio of cholesterol lowering foods.
由于每种食物通过不同机制降低胆固醇，效果应该会叠加。
They each lower cholesterol through a different mechanism, so they should add up.
这成为了历史上最有效的降胆固醇饮食方案。
And that has been the most effective, cholesterol lowering diet in history.
好的。
Okay.
但他们在2003年时提出了四种降胆固醇食物。
But they came at the time, 2003, there were they came up with four cholesterol lowering foods.
好吧，为什么止步于此？
Okay, why stop there?
你知道，已经过去二十年了。
You know, it's been twenty years.
还发现了哪些能降低胆固醇的方法？
What else has been found to lower cholesterol?
所以我深入研究了文献，找出了每一种简单安全的降胆固醇方法。
So I dug into the research and uncovered every simple, safe way to lower our cholesterol.
无论你是否服用他汀类药物，通过摄入特定的降胆固醇食物——包括草药、香料、补充剂等——所有在随机对照试验中能将LDL胆固醇降低至少10毫克/分升的方法。
You know, whether or not you're on statins by incorporating certain cholesterol lowering foods, including herbs and spices, supplements, everything that could, lower LDL cholesterol by at least, ten milligrams per deciliter in randomized controlled trials.
这算是我们的筛选标准。
That was kind of the cutoff.
我们最终找到了13种方法，因此可以制定一个'组合升级版'饮食方案，尽可能降低LDL胆固醇和心脏病风险。
We found 13 things so we could make kind of a portfolio plus diet, to lower our LDL, to lower our heart disease risk as much as possible.
我相信这些在书里都有提到，而且你肯定也会在研讨会上讲到这些。
And I'm sure those are all mentioned in the book, and certainly you're gonna be talking about them in the seminar.
不过先给我们透露一点吧。
But give us a preview.
你能快速列举几个给我们听听吗？
Can you rattle rattle off a few for us?
哦，当然可以。
Oh, absolutely.
事实上，我是说，有这么多种不同选择真是太棒了。
In fact, I mean, there's so I mean, it's kind of it's great that there's so many different options.
对吧？
Right?
但我担心这可能会让人有点不知所措，不管是看书还是参加研讨会。
But I I'm afraid that it's gonna be a little overwhelming whether they read the book, go to the seminar.
不过我不希望大家感到压力太大。
But I don't want people to be overwhelmed.
其实，我的意思是，哪怕你只选择其中一项，那也非常棒。
Even, I mean, even if you choose one of them, that's fantastic.
但我确实做过一个实验，我说，好吧，有没有办法把13种方法都融入日常饮食中？
But I did, kind of as an experiment, say, okay, Is there a way to actually incorporate all 13 into your daily diet?
所以我让格雷戈里医生在厨房拍摄烹饪视频，我制作了各种混合粉末撒在食物上，实际上是为了最大化降低LDL胆固醇，适合那些想全力以赴的人。
And so I have a doctor Gregory in the kitchen cooking video kind of thing where I make all sorts of kind of concoctions of various powders to sprinkle on things to actually, to maximize LDL lowering, for those who wanna go all in.
但是，我再次强调，你看。
But, again, you know, I make a I make a a point to say, look.
即使你只做其中一两件简单的事，你知道，这完全值得。
Even if you do one or two of these simple things, you know, it's it can be totally worth it.
所以你只需要挑选适合你生活方式的方法。
And so you just need to kind of pick and choose to find something fits into your life.
所以我做的第一件事就是过一遍'每日十二项'清单。
So the first thing I do is I go through the Daily Dozen.
对吧？
Right?
所以'每日十二项'，我鼓励人们在日常生活中融入这些最健康的食物，可以下载免费应用，就是格雷格医生的。
So the Daily Dozen, the healthiest of healthy foods I encourage people to fit into their daily life, Available as a free app, know, Doctor.
麦克格雷戈的每日十二项。
McGregor's Daily Dozen.
这基本上就是我的饮食方式，也是我鼓励人们追求的理想目标，尽量涵盖所有这些食物。
So that's basically how I eat, and I encourage people to eat, as an aspirational goal to hit off all these things.
所以我做的第一件事就是，好吧，这已经是我建议人们吃的食物清单了。
And so the first thing I did is, okay, well, is the list of things I'm already telling people eat.
有没有办法调整它来最大化降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇？
Is there a way to tweak it to maximize LDL cholesterol reduction?
所以我每日清单中的一项就是鼓励人们每天食用豆类。
So one of the things on my daily dozen is I encourage people to eat legumes every day.
豆类、豌豆、鹰嘴豆或扁豆。
Beans, split peas, chickpeas, or lentils.
最健康的植物蛋白来源。
The healthiest source of plant protein.
事实上，这是与延长寿命最相关的食物。
In fact, the food associated with the greatest extension of longevity.
如果有一种食物能让我们活得更久，那就是豆类。
If there's one thing we could eat to make ourselves live longer, it would be legumes.
这是全球疾病负担研究的结果，但详细内容在我的《如何不衰老》一书中有记载。
It's the global burden of disease study, but that's in my How Not to Age book.
好的。
Okay.
但我们该怎么做呢？
But what are we going to do?
我们该如何调整豆类摄入以进一步降低低密度脂蛋白？
How can we tweak the beans to lower LDL further?
仅一汤匙黑大豆就能显著降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇。
A single tablespoon of black soybeans lowers significantly lowers LDL cholesterol.
研究发现黑豆种皮中的花青素色素能有效降低胆固醇。
And it turns out there's these anthocyanin pigments in the seed coat in the black seed coat that actually pull our cholesterol down.
你确实可以通过安慰剂对照试验来验证这一点，因为用量非常小，这是一个安慰剂对照、双盲、随机对照试验。
You can show this in actually a placebo controlled because it's such a small amount, a placebo controlled, double blind, randomized controlled trial.
你会说，等等，黑大豆？
And you say, wait a second, black soybeans?
你上哪儿去找黑大豆呢？
Where do you even get black soybeans?
你可以买到罐装黑大豆。
You can buy cans of black soybeans.
Eden品牌有无盐添加的黑大豆罐头。
Eden Brand has a can of no salt added black soybeans.
一罐可以吃整整一个月，对吧，因为你每天只需要一汤匙。
One can will last you a whole month, right, because you only need a tablespoon a day.
所以等一下。
And so wait a second.
要知道，就算放冰箱里，罐头也保存不了一个月。
You know, the can isn't gonna last even in the fridge for a month.
啊，你可以用这些硅胶婴儿食品盘，就是那种带小凹槽的。
Ah, what you do is you get these little silicone baby food trays, which which have just like little, you know, kind of dimples.
买一罐黑豆，然后每个小凹槽里放一汤匙，盖上盖子放进冷冻室。
And so you buy a can of black soybeans, and then you just put a tablespoon in each one of the little dimples, and you put it in the you cover it up, put it in the freezer.
每天取出一颗小球。
And then every day, you just pop out a little ball.
就像高尔夫球大小的黑豆团，扔进你做的任何饭菜里，它们解冻后你甚至察觉不到存在。
It's just like a little golf ball size of black soybeans, And you throw it into any meal you're making, and then they just they they thaw out, and you won't even notice that they're there.
量非常小。
It's just a small amount.
但这是其中一种方法。
But that's one way you do it.
当然你也可以用快煲电压力锅煮或直接放炉子上煮。
Of course, you can put them in an instant pot or boil them on the stove.
每天只需几分钱——可能连几分钱都不到——就能获得降低低密度脂蛋白的效果。
And so just pennies a day, it's probably not even pennies a day, you'll get that that LDL lowering ability.
好的。
Okay.
我们还有什么？
What else we got?
好的。
Okay.
我建议人们每天吃浆果，这是最健康的水果。
I tell people to eat berries every day, the healthiest fruits.
那么，有没有哪种浆果实际上能降低胆固醇？
Okay, well, are there any berries that actually lower cholesterol?
有。
Yes.
两汤匙干燥的伏牛花果。
Two tablespoons of dried barberries.
小檗碱是一种非常常见的降胆固醇补充剂。
So berberine is a very common cholesterol lowering supplement.
五百毫克的小檗碱确实能显著降低胆固醇，但我讨厌补充剂。
So five hundred milligrams of berberine can actually significantly lower cholesterol, but I hate supplements.
为什么我讨厌补充剂？
Why do I hate supplements?
因为你永远不知道补充剂里有什么成分，对吧？
Because you never know what's in the supplement, right?
天知道他们在里面加了什么。
God knows what they're putting in it.
这个行业的监管简直是一片混乱。
It's such a wild, wild west of regulation.
有时候我们不得不服用补充剂，比如维生素B12，但如果能不吃补充剂，那最好还是别吃。
Now sometimes you have to may have to take supplements like vitamin b twelve, but if we can get away with not taking supplements, well, let's let's do it.
与其服用五百毫克的小檗碱补充剂——如果你去市场上看看，有研究发现某些产品根本不含小檗碱。
And so instead of five hundred milligrams of berberine, and if you actually go and look at berberine supplements on the market, there are studies found that some of them don't have any berberine at all.
有些补充剂还含有各种奇怪的污染物。
Some have all sorts of weird contaminants.
你根本无法信任保健品行业。
You just can't trust the supplement industry.
结果发现最集中的膳食来源是伏牛花果，就是那种鲜红色的小浆果。
So it turns out that the most concentrated dietary source are are barberries, which are these little bright red fruits.
你可以在印度香料店买到。
You can buy Indian spice stores.
你也可以在网上购买。
You can buy them online.
它被用来制作一道非常著名的中东米饭料理，波斯米饭。
It's used to make very famous Middle Eastern rice dish, a Persian rice dish.
所以你可以购买它们。
And so you you can buy them.
它们味道酸涩。
They're tart.
但非常美味。
They're delicious.
总之，你可以从两汤匙干燥的小檗果中获取那个有效剂量的黄连素，也就是500毫克。
Anyway, so you can get that that active dose of berberine, that five hundred milligrams, in two tablespoons of dry barbards.
所以你可以用两汤匙的小勺量取，然后撒在任何食物上。
And so you can get a little two tablespoon scoop, and you sprinkle on anything.
今早我就把它加在我的燕麦粥里。
This morning, I had none my oatmeal.
你可以把它放进冰沙里。
You can throw it in a smoothie.
你可以这么做。
You can do it.
我是说，你也可以直接吃它们，比如作为什锦果仁的一部分之类的。
I mean, you could just eat them, like, part of, like, trail mix or whatever.
总之，不只是每天吃浆果，为了降低低密度脂蛋白，我们可以用那两汤匙干燥的小檗果。
Anyway, so not just berries every day, but for LDL lowering, we can use those two tablespoons of dry barberries.
现在针对每一种方法，我都会讨论其优点和禁忌事项。
Now for each of these, I talk about, like, the the pros the the contraindications.
例如，我们不确定黄连素对孕妇和哺乳期妇女是否安全，所以如果你怀孕了，就不应该服用两汤匙的伏牛花。
So for example, berberine is not we're not sure it's safe for pregnant and lactating women, so you would not wanna do two tablespoons of barberries if you are pregnant, for example.
当然，我在书中详细讨论了这些内容，但这里只是想给你一个快速的概述。
And, of course, so I go into all the kind of details in the book, but just wanted to give you a quick little overview.
我们可以再快速讲两个。
We can do two more really quick.
好的。
Okay.
水果。
Fruits.
其他水果，是我日常课程的一部分。
Other fruits, part of my, daily lesson.
还有其他水果吗？
Are there any other fruits?
哦哦，让我回到浆果的话题上。
Oh oh, let me go back to the berries.
漆树。
Sumac.
你听说过漆树吗？
Have you heard of sumac?
漆树是一种香料。
Sumac is this spice.
它其实就是一种浆果粉末。
It's literally just a powdered berry.
这种小浆果味道非常浓郁。
It's a little berry that's so potently flavored.
你只需将浆果磨碎，那就是漆树香料。
You just grind up the berry, and that's sumac spice.
所以它只是磨碎的浆果。
So it's just ground berry.
半茶匙漆树粉，半茶匙这种红色浆果粉，能显著降低胆固醇和低密度脂蛋白，降幅超过10个点。
And a half of a teaspoon of sumac, half a teaspoon of the ground red berry lowers your cholesterol, lowers LDL, significantly lowers over 10 points.
太神奇了。
Amazing.
好的。
Okay.
所以它实际上被归在香料区，但从技术上讲，它是一种浆果。
And so that actually goes in the spices section, but technically, it's a berry.
好的。
Okay.
总之，好吧。
Anyway, so okay.
很好。
Good.
我们又掌握了一个知识点。
We got another one under our belt.
你可以随意使用——再说一次，你可以撒在任何食物上。
And you can spend and I don't Again, you can sprinkle on anything.
你可以直接拿它。
You can just take it.
你可以随便怎么用。
You can whatever.
好的。
Okay.
还有好的。
And okay.
水果。
Fruits.
其他水果。
Other fruits.
所以我告诉人们，他们不应该只吃浆果，还要吃其他水果。
So I tell people, they should, not just eat berries, but other fruits.
还有其他水果能有效降低低密度脂蛋白吗？
Are there any other fruits that, that make the cut for LDL lowering?
有一项针对女性的显著研究显示，每天食用12个苹果干圈。
There was this remarkable study on it only tested women, but eating 12 dried apple rings a day.
这些苹果干圈，成分只有苹果。
So, you know, those dried apple rings, they're single ingredient apples.
而且，它们有点嚼劲。
And, you know, they're kinda chewy.
它们很美味，但谁知道呢？
They're delicious, but who knew?
LDL胆固醇出现了显著下降。
They there was this dramatic drop in LDL cholesterol.
这相当于每天吃两个新鲜苹果。
Now that would be the equivalent of two fresh apples a day.
如果你不想吃苹果干圈，新鲜苹果应该也有效，尽管尚未经过测试。
So if you don't wanna do the the apple rings, presumably the fresh works as well, even though it hasn't been tested.
我们认为可能是果胶纤维的作用，谁知道呢？
We think it's probably because the pectin fiber, who knows?
所以我建议人们，如果你想吃零食，这里有一个不错的选择。
But and so so I encourage people, what if you're gonna have a snack, gonna snack, well then there's there's one snack you could do.
天啊。
Oh my god.
想吃多少就吃多少。
We can go we can go as many as you want.
呃，我知道我们可以，但我们得为研讨会留一些。
Well, I I mean, I know that we can, but I we we gotta save some for the seminar.
我们得把人们吸引过来
We gotta we gotta get people over to
我只是想让更多人知道这个信息。
the hate I just want this information out there.
我是说，
I mean, that's
我明白。
I know.
重要的事情。
Important thing.
不过这本书将会推出平装版、电子书、有声书，基本上还有视频书形式。
So but the the so this is the book will be available in soft cover and in ebook and in audiobook and basically in video book form.
这就是研讨会的意义。
That's what the seminar is.
我把书里所有内容都做成了视频，这就是我接下来要做的事。
I took all the content in the book, turned it into videos, And so that's basically what I'm gonna do.
我会逐一播放所有视频。
I'm gonna go through, play all the videos.
我们会进行问答环节。
We'll do q and a.
我们会播放厨房里的格雷戈尔视频。
We'll do the Gregor in the kitchen video.
所以这取决于人们的学习方式。
And so it depends how people learn.
如果你是视觉型学习者，我建议大家报名参加这个研讨会。
If you're like a visual learner, I encourage people to sign up for the seminar.
研讨会定在10月10日。
It's on October 10.
报名截止日期是10月8日。
Registration ends on October 8.
或者你也可以买这本书作为参考，或是收藏里面的食谱之类的。
And and or you may also wanna get the book just for the references or to have the recipes there or whatever.
无论哪种学习方式最适合你。
However you learn best.
总有办法能获取到它。
There's there's a there's a way you can get it.
总之，我就是想把这些信息传递给大家。
But, yeah, I just wanna get this information out there.
好的。
Yeah.
这就是为什么你是个好人。
And that's why you're you're a good dude.
而且这本书只要10美元。
And the book is only $10.
你知道吗？
You know?
我我
I I
我所有书籍的销售收益，包括这本，当然都会直接捐给慈善机构。
just All proceeds from the sale of all my books, including this one, goes directly to charity, of course.
是啊。
Yeah.
我我想回到漆树的话题。
I I wanna go back to the sumac.
那那除了翻你的书，还能在哪里找到漆树呢
So so where where does one find sumac other than flipping through your
去任何一家杂货店都能找到。
go to any grocery store.
走到香料区，那里有个从来没人注意过的东西。
You go to the spice section, and there's this thing that no one's ever ever looks over.
我不知道为什么我一直没尝试它。
I don't know why I haven't tried it.
它实际上相当简单。
It's actually delicious.
它非常酸涩。
It's very tart.
所以它能给菜肴增添一种酸味。
So it adds kind of the sourness to dishes.
我忘了它是用来做什么的。
I forget what it's used for.
]
I think it's used at Mediterranean cooking.
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但伙计，你可以想象把它用在印度菜或任何类型的料理中。
But boy, you can imagine using it in Indian cooking or any kind of anyway.
再说一次，只需要极少量，半茶匙就够了。
And again, it's a teeny amount, just a half teaspoon.
还有一些其他香料能显著降低胆固醇。
And so there's some other spices that significantly lower cholesterol.
香料研究的美妙之处在于可以进行安慰剂对照双盲实验。
What's nice about spice studies is that you can do placebo controlled double blind studies.
要知道，对饮食进行盲法研究很难，因为你没法把卷心菜塞进胶囊里。
You know, it's hard to do blinded studies for diet because you can't stuff a cabbage in a capsule.
所以如果你想知道卷心菜是否对你有益，可以随机让人吃或不吃卷心菜，但可能会有安慰剂效应。
So if you wanna know if cabbage is good for you, yeah, you can randomize people to eat cabbage or not, but there may be a placebo effect.
哦，卷心菜可能对我有好处，甚至可能有超出预期的效果，你可以给安慰剂组随机安排其他东西。
Oh, cabbage is probably good for me and may have an effect beyond, you know, and and now you could randomize the placebo group.
我是说，对照组可以改吃其他种类的蔬菜。
I mean, the control group to, like, eat some other kind of vegetable instead.
但话说回来，谁知道呢，也许其他蔬菜也有益处。
But then, who knows, maybe the other vegetable has some beneficial effects.
这真的很难区分清楚。
It's really hard to tease it out.
但对于香料，如果用量仅半茶匙，你可以将其装入不透明胶囊中，让人无法分辨是香料还是安慰剂（比如玉米淀粉或糖丸）。
But with a spice, if something is only half a teaspoon, you can put it in capsules, opaque capsules, you can't tell which is which, versus placebo, which is like cornstarch or, you know, sugar pill or whatever.
你甚至可以在糖丸表面撒一点香料粉末，让它们闻起来几乎一样。
And you can even dust the sugar pill with a little of the spice so they most likely smell the same.
虽然打嗝时可能会尝出区别。
Now you may burp and be able to taste differently.
虽然并非绝对完美，但基本上可以让人在不知情的情况下随机服用香料或安慰剂，几周后测量他们的胆固醇水平变化。
It's not absolutely perfect, but you can basically randomize people to take secretly, unbeknownst to them, take the spice or not, and then just measure their cholesterol before and after a few weeks.
这才是能毫无疑义地证明因果关系的办法——这些香料确实能降低胆固醇。
I mean, that's how you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, cause and effect, these spices lower your cholesterol.
因此我们确实掌握了最有力的证据。
And so so we really have the strongest amount of evidence.
现在并不一定是香料比其他食物效果更好，只是我们拥有的证据非常有力。
Now it's not necessarily that spices are better than other foods are doing it, but we just have the evidence is so strong.
那么还有什么能降低我们的胆固醇呢？
So what else can lower our cholesterol?
三分之一茶匙的余甘子，这是另一种干浆果。
A third of a teaspoon of amla, which is another dried berry.
另一种浆果。
Another berry.
余甘子是印度醋栗干粉。
Amla is dried Indian gooseberry powder.
你其实可以在印度商店的冷冻区买到这些醋栗，可惜它们实在太难吃了，根本没法下咽。
You you can actually get the gooseberries in frozen sections in in Indian stores, unfortunately, because they're absolutely nasty, inedible.
这确实有药用价值。
It's really medicinal.
我刚刚还在和Cyrus Kombatta以及他的妻子Kylie Buckner讨论这个。
I'm I was just talking with Cyrus Kombatta and his wife, Kylie Buckner, about that.
他们是这个的忠实粉丝。
They're big fans of that.
他们说，刚开始还没学会正确调配时，每天早上都得捏着鼻子一口闷。
And they're like, when we first started before we learned how to mix it properly, we had to pinch our nose and do the shots every morning.
那简直太痛苦了，老兄。
It was just brutal, man.
还...还行吧。
It's it's it's okay.
但只需要三分之一茶匙的量。
But only need a third of a teaspoon.
降胆固醇效果相当于三十茶匙的量。
Thirty of a teaspoon in terms of cholesterol lowering.
三分之一茶匙。
Third of a teaspoon.
现在你依然会觉得...这量还是挺大的。
Now you still it's it's a lot.
所以我其实讲到过，那其实是我配方粉末的一部分。
And so I actually talk about that's actually part of my bat powder.
这是书中的配方之一。
It's one of the recipes in the book.
B A T，代表黑孜然、余甘子和姜黄。
B A T, which is black cumin, amla, and turmeric.
我还介绍了服用它的几种方法。
And and I I talk about ways that you can take it.
有种咖喱浆法，就是你得捏着鼻子用水或其他东西冲服下去。
There is the kind of curry slurry method where you just gotta hold your nose and and shut it back with some water or something and you okay.
哦，你也可以加在奶昔里，可能就尝不出味道了。
Oh, you can put in, you know, a smoothie and probably wouldn't be able to taste it.
但我讲的是这种可食用薄膜，它只有单一成分——马铃薯淀粉。
But but what I talk about is this is this edible film, which is basic which is a single ingredient, potato starch.
就是这些透明的小圆片或方片，薄如蝉翼的马铃薯淀粉膜，你可以把任何难吃的东西包进去，像包小馄饨那样。
It's just these little discs of basically transparent little super, super tissue thin little circles or squares of potato starch, which you can put any nasty tasting stuff in and wrap it up a little wonton.
你蘸水后喝下，完全尝不到任何味道。
You dip in water, and you drink it without tasting it at all.
所以这就是所有难吃东西的去处。
So that was that's where all the nasty stuff goes.
基本上，我把13种不同的东西分成美味、难吃和中性的三类。
Basically, I I break up all the 13 of the different things into tasty, nasty, and neutral.
难吃的东西就放进马铃薯淀粉小袋里。
And so the nasty stuff goes in the potato starch pouches.
美味的东西其实可以直接加进我的餐食中。
The tasty stuff actually just goes in my meals.
我其实很喜欢小檗果的味道，会撒些在饭菜上。
I actually like the taste of barberries, I'm gonna sprinkle those in my meals.
至于中性无味的，比如洋车前子粉。
And then the neutral stuff that doesn't taste like anything, for example, psyllium husk powder.
就是添加了各种人工甜味剂和色素的Metamucil品牌产品等等。
Sold as Metamucil with all sorts of artificial sweeteners and colors and blah blah blah.
不。
No.
但你可以直接买纯洋车前子壳粉，每天一汤匙。
But you can just get straight psyllium husk powder and a tablespoon a day.
基本上就是每餐一茶匙，配上足够的水。
So it's basically a teaspoon with each meal with sufficient water.
每茶匙粉需要喝大约一杯水。
You need to drink, like, a cup of water with every teaspoon.
但洋车前子粉基本上没什么味道。
But psyllium powder has basically has no taste.
它有点像磨碎的亚麻籽或小麦胚芽之类的。
It's basically like ground flaxseeds or wheat germ or something.
所以我把它做成所谓的'组合加强粉'，大概有八种成分吧。
And so that is where I make this what I call my portfolio plus powder, which is like, I don't know, eight things or something.
都是中性材料，按特定比例混合后可以制作一个月的用量，然后撒在餐食上。
All neutral that you can put together in specific quantities and make a month supply, at a time, and then you sprinkle that on meals.
它并不会真正改变食物的味道，但你可以同时搞定半打事情。
It doesn't really tame change taste of the meals, but you can nail, you know, half a dozen things at the same time.
老兄，你能想出这种粉末配方，我简直要把你想象成疯狂科学家了。
Man, the fact that you've come up with this concoction in the powder, like, I'm just picturing you as like this mad scientist No.
诸如此类的。
And everything.
我是说，这对那些想把这变成游戏的人来说很有趣，比如试图一次性搞定所有。
I mean, it it's it's a lot of fun for, you know, for people who just wanna, like, oh, let's make a game out of this to, like, try to get it all.
同时，这看起来也有点古怪。
At the same time, it comes off a little kooky.
对吧？
Right?
我是说，你可以想象一个对健康饮食完全陌生的人。
I mean, it's like, you can imagine someone who's completely new to healthy eating.
对吧？
Right?
然后有这么个人，你知道的，把各种奇怪的东西混在一起吃，还吃些他们闻所未闻的玩意儿。
And here's some guy, you know, mixing weird stuff together and taking things they've never even heard of.
对于习惯了标准美式饮食的人来说，他们真正需要听到的建议其实是：少喝汽水，少吃加工肉类、培根和午餐肉这类东西。
And it's just like, you know, for someone eating a standard American diet, like, what they need to hear is, you know, just reduce your consumption of soda, of processed meat, bacon, and montage, lunch meat.
我是说，他们需要的是超级基础的生活方式建议。
I mean, you know, like, they need super basic lifestyle advice.
对吧？
Right?
他们不需要这些细枝末节、高深莫测、研究生级别的高阶内容。
They don't need this like nitty gritty, high level, graduate level, next degree kind of stuff.
但不幸的是，当内容传到网上时，你根本无法筛选受众。
But unfortunately, when you stuff goes online, you can't really select the audience.
所以总会有人看到这个然后想：等等——
So someone's gonna come to this and be like, wait a second.
如果这就是植物性饮食的全部，那还是算了吧。
If that's what plant based eating is all about, forget this.
我还是回去吃
I'm gonna go back to
我的双层芝士汉堡吧。
my double cheeseburger.
所以，你知道，我有点矛盾。
So, I mean, it's a little you know, I'm a little conflicted.
对吧？
Right?
我反复强调，听着：
And and I over and over, keep emphasizing, look.
只要你做点什么，哪怕只吃个苹果，我就很开心。
Do if you do anything, if you just eat an apple, I'm happy.
明白吗？
Right?
天啊。
Oh my god.
只要你少吃一个博洛尼亚三明治，我就非常开心了。
If you just, like, you know, eat one less bologna sandwich, I'm totally happy.
这对你的胆固醇有好处。
It's gonna help your cholesterol.
你明白吗？
It's gonna you know?
好吧。
Okay.
如果你想更进一步，我随时支持你，我有一长串可以做的事情。
Now if you wanna do the next step, I'm here for you, and I got a long list of stuff to do.
但我们不要，你知道的，不要给自己太大压力。
But let's not get, you know, not get overwhelmed.
不要让完美成为优秀的敌人。
Not let the perfect be the enemy, the good.
懂我意思吗？
You know?
所以希望每个人都能从中找到一点适合自己的东西。
And so, hopefully, there's a little something for everyone.
但如果你突然看到它，会觉得有点...会觉得有点疯狂。
But if you just, like, look at it out of the blue, it's gonna look a little it's gonna look a little crazy.
是啊。
Yeah.
但你明白吗，关键就在这里。
But you but see, that's the thing.
就像你完全接受了它。
It's like you own it.
对吧？
Right?
你完全意识到，和大多数人吃的东西相比，这个简直糟透了。
It's like you you recognize fully that compared to what the majority of people are eating, this is just baddied.
就是说，这有点疯狂。
Like, it's it's a little bonkers.
是啊，老兄。
Yeah, dude.
但正是这样才有趣。
But and that's what makes it fun.
你知道吗，这就像是给了人们一点许可，让他们觉得'哦，这有点古怪，但依然很酷，因为他承认这很古怪'。
You know, it's it's like it gives people that that, like, little bit of permission to be like, oh, this is kooky, but it's still cool because he admits that it's kooky.
他并没有说这是正常的。
He's not saying that this is normal.
干得好。
Good job.
因为天知道和他们过去的生活方式相比，这绝对不正常。
Because god knows it's not normal compared to what life they've been leading, man.
所以这很酷，伙计。
So that's cool, man.
我知道。
I know.
而且，希望并且，知道，我向人们介绍，其实有免费的方法可以检测你的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇。
And, hopefully and, know, I to people about you know, there's actually free ways you can get your LDL cholesterol tested.
事实上，你甚至可以直接寄送样本。
In fact, you can even send it off.
他们会给你邮寄一个小工具。
They send you a little thing in the mail.
你只需刺破手指，把血滴在一张小纸条上，然后放回信封寄回去。
You prick your finger, and you drip your blood on a little slip, and you put it back, and you send it back.
我记得连邮费都是预付的。
I think it's even postage paid.
这是一个慈善基金会提供的服务，因为有人因心脏病过早去世。
And there's a charitable foundation that actually does this because someone died from heart disease early.
他们觉得这太糟糕了。
And they're like, this is terrible.
没有人应该因此丧命。
No one should die.
这应该对所有人免费。
This should be free to everybody.
于是他们成立了这个家庭慈善基金会。
And so they set up this family charitable foundation.
我们觉得，LDL检测应该对所有人免费。
And we're like, LDL tests, everyone for free.
搞定。
Boom.
你只需在线填写，他们就会寄给你。
You just fill it online and they send it you.
当然，你也可以从医生那里获取。
Of course, you can get it from your doctor.
很多药店，比如CVS之类的，都有免费胆固醇检测，或者你可以购买这些小仪器。
A lot of the, like, drugstores have, like, CVS and stuff, a free cholesterol testing, or you actually buy these little machines.
它们价格不算太贵，配有测试条，你可以随时检测胆固醇水平。
They're not too expensive, where it comes with little strips and you can test your cholesterol as much as you want.
这样你就能每周集中检测胆固醇水平，然后进行微调。
So you can cluster test your cholesterol every week, and and then you can tweak.
你可以做出改变。
You can change things.
就像是，好吧。
It's like, okay.
我真的很讨厌吃这种愚蠢的粉末。
I really hate taking this stupid powder.
这真的有用吗？
Does it even matter?
好吧。
Alright.
我会尝试同样的饮食，但一周内有时吃有时不吃这种粉末，看看效果如何。
Well, I'm gonna do tasting this same diet, but with or without this powder for a week and see what this does for me.
我的意思是，仅仅因为它在平均水平上有效，这些研究结果就是这么显示的。
I mean, just because it works on on average, that's what these studies show.
它们平均而言是有效的。
They work on average.
但这并不一定对我有效。
Doesn't mean it necessarily works for me.
事实上，对我影响最深的一项研究是关于植物甾醇的。
In fact, you know, one of the one of the studies that really made an impact on me was looking at phytosterols.
这是本书中我真正推荐人们服用的少数补充剂之一。
That's one of the rare supplements that I actually recommend people take in this book.
我们有充分证据表明，平均而言它们能显著降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇。
So we have such good evidence that on average, they can significantly lower LDL cholesterol.
我建议每天服用两克，书中还讨论了市面上有哪些产品等等。
I recommend two grams a day, and I talk about which ones are out there, blah blah blah.
好吧。
Okay.
但如果你看这些研究，用瀑布图展示每个个体的胆固醇变化就会发现——尽管平均下降了13个点的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇（这达到了我设定的10点以上标准）。
But if you look at the studies, you do what's called a cascade plot where it shows the cholesterol changes of every single individual, even though on average overall, I think it was a 13 drop in LDL cholesterol, thereby making my cut for over 10.
太好了。
Great.
既然它是安全的，我们就把它纳入饮食中，我也会讨论安全性问题。
So let's include it in the diet if it's safe, and I talk about the safety.
好的。
Okay.
但那只是平均降幅。
But that was the average drop.
有些人服用相同剂量后，LDL降低了40个点。
Some people, like, they dropped their LDL 40 points taking the same amount.
这太神奇了。
That's amazing.
你可能很幸运成为那样的人。
You might be lucky in being that.
对其他人则完全无效。
Other people, it didn't work at all.
他们服用了这种补充剂，白白浪费了钱，而他们的低密度脂蛋白却纹丝不动。
They took this supplement, wasted all this money, and their LDL didn't budge at all.
无论他们的生理状况如何，都与平均水平有些偏差。
Whatever their physiology was a little off the average.
好的。
Okay.
但关键点在于。
But here's the critical piece.
在某些罕见的个体中，他们的胆固醇实际上升高了。
In certain rare individuals, their cholesterol actually went up.
这些人服用补充剂与安慰剂相比，服用补充剂后胆固醇反而上升了。
They took this supplement versus placebo, and on the supplement their cholesterol went up.
他们还不如服用糖丸效果更好。
They would have been better taking the sugar pill.
好吧，这很可怕，对吧？
Okay, now that's scary, right?
因为我在这里告诉人们要服用某种东西，但它实际上可能让情况变得更糟。
Because here I am telling people to take something, but it may actually be making things worse.
这就是为什么我鼓励人们在这样做之前，先检测一下你的胆固醇水平。
That's why I encourage people to, before you do this, you know, let's get your cholesterol tested.
开始添加这些东西。
Start adding these things.
你可以测试各种成分。
You can test various components.
看看哪些真正有效。
See what actually works.
并且要确保，是的，一定要确保你确实符合平均水平，也就是说，你属于那些能获得和我们预期相同的胆固醇降低效果的人群。
And make sure, yes, just be make sure that you indeed follow the average, that that, you know, you fall into the pack where you get the same cholesterol we get the expected cholesterol reduction.
而且，你知道，真正让我印象深刻的是看到这类个性化数据，你实际上是在看单例研究，意味着你只研究一个人，尝试不同的方法，找出对你有效的方式，而不仅仅是看平均水平。
And, you know, one of the something that really struck out of me looking at these kind of this, this personalized data where you actually look on a end of one studies, meaning you just study one person, you try different things to find out whether it works for you, not just for on the average.
有人准备好接受这个了吗？
Some people ready for this?
你坐好了吗？
Are you sitting down?
有些人，咖啡因会让他们犯困。
Some people, caffeine makes them sleepy.
真的会犯困。
Literally sleepy.
这难道不是很疯狂吗？
Isn't that, like, absolute bonkers?
不知怎么，他们的大脑结构让咖啡因反而促使他们入睡。
Somehow, they have brains where caffeine actually make makes them go to sleep.
这种情况非常罕见。
And so it's very rare.
是啊。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
但这确实表明，仅仅因为——当我们提到咖啡因时，你知道的，人们总说它会让人紧张、提神等等等等。
But that really does show you just because and when we say caffeine, you know, makes people jittery, wakes people blah blah blah.
不。
No.
那只是平均水平，确实如此。
That's on average, and it is on average.
所以，这是个真实的说法。
So that's, like, a true statement.
但这对你个人来说成立吗？
But is it a true statement for you?
只有经过测试你才会知道。
You don't know until you put it to the test.
如果你喝了咖啡后感到困倦，就不该为了提神而硬喝。
You drink some coffee, and if you feel sleepy, you shouldn't just drink it because you're you're trying to wake up.
显然这对你不起作用。
Obviously, it's not working for you.
是啊，就是这样。
So so yeah.
所以我经常谈论这种个体化测试。
So I talk a lot about this kind of n of one testing.
让我们确保它对你有用。
Let's make sure it works for you.
幸运的是，这是我们可以追踪的。
And, thankfully, it's something we can track.
对于某些疾病，没有生物标志物。
For some disease conditions, there's no biomarker.
我们不知道它是否有效。
We don't know if it's helping or not.
但比如减肥，你想知道它是否有效吗？
But for, like, for weight loss, you wanna know if it helps?
好的。
Okay.
你就能看出来。
You can tell.
我做的这些有效果吗？
Is what I'm doing working?
我们来看看体重秤，对吧？
Let's look at the scale, right?
好，胆固醇方面，有什么方法有效吗？
Okay, for cholesterol, is something working?
我们来看看胆固醇指标。
Let's look at the cholesterol.
实际上我们可以观察它的变化趋势，饮食调整的好处在于两周内就能看到差异。
Let's actually see how it moves, and what's nice about diet is within two weeks of a dietary change, you can see a difference.
你知道他们怎么说吗？开始服用降胆固醇药后，过几个月再来复查。
So you know how they say you start a cholesterol lowering drug, come back in a few months?
这些药物可能需要数月才能见效，但两周内就能达到最大效果。
It may take months for one of these drugs to work, but within two weeks to get the maximum effect.
对吧？
Right?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
所以基本上，饮食调整带来的所有效果，你都会在前两周内看到。
So basically, all the effect you're gonna get from a dietary change, you're gonna get within the first two weeks.
这样一来就很容易让人决定：好吧。
And so that makes it really easy to be like, alright.
我们来试试这个。
Let's try this.
看。
Look.
也许我真的很喜欢这种明知道不该吃的食物。
Maybe I really like this food that I I know I shouldn't be eating.
对吧？
Right?
它含有一些，你知道的，随便什么成分。
It's got some, like, you know, whatever.
就像我最喜欢的小零食，而且我也不常吃。
It's like my favorite little comfort food, and I don't eat it that often.
但是，这真的重要吗？
But, like, does it really matter?
我是说，我最担心的是——虽然饱和脂肪的危害不止于此——我最担心的是我的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇。
I mean, the big thing I'm really worried about, not that that's the only bad thing about saturated fat, but the big thing I worry about is my LDL cholesterol.
好吧。
Alright.
你看，我们试试完全戒掉它，看看是否真的会有区别。
You know, let's see if I completely cut it out, if it's actually gonna make a difference or not.
所以，是的，我再次鼓励人们关注这个最重要的指标——如果能选一个检测值，那就是低密度脂蛋白胆固醇，这是头号杀手的首要诱因。
And so, yeah, I encourage people to really again, this is the most important indicator, right, if you could pick one lab value, it would be LDL cholesterol primary driver of our primary killer.
事实上，如果要判断一种饮食或特定食物是否健康，只允许问一个问题的话，那就是：这种食物对我的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇有什么影响？
In fact, if you had to know whether a diet was good, or whether a particular food was good, if you could just ask one question, it would be what does this food do to my LDL cholesterol?
你想知道一种饮食是否健康吗？
You want to know if a diet is healthy or not?
嗯，饮食可能有各种影响：增加或降低糖尿病风险。
Well, diets can have all sorts of things: increased diabetes risk or decreased diabetes.
但如果头号杀手是心脏病，那么第一个问题就是：等等，这种饮食会让你的低密度脂蛋白升高吗？
But if the one killer is heart disease, then the first question is, wait a second, does this diet make your LDL go up?
比如生酮饮食或某些旧石器时代的肉食饮食，还是会降低它，比如植物性饮食和某些地中海饮食。
Like a ketogenic diet or some of these paleolithic carnivore diets, or does it make it go down, like plant based diets and certain Mediterranean diets.
所以，好吧。
And so, okay.
这是个不错的开始。
Well, that's a good first step.
这种食物健康吗？
Is this food healthy?
让我们看看与我原本会吃的食物相比，它对我的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇有什么影响。
Let's find out what it does to my LDL cholesterol compared to what I would be eating instead.
好的。
Alright.
让我们快速过一遍，把收尾工作做完。
Let's, go rapid fire here as we close things up.
只是些简单的内务整理。
Just a little bit of housekeeping.
我想再回到油类的话题。
I wanna circle back, to oils.
我们提到过热带植物油，但橄榄油似乎仍是个热议话题。
We've mentioned tropical oils, but olive oil seems to still be a hotly debated topic.
关于橄榄油摄入量与低密度脂蛋白胆固醇之间的关系，我们目前了解多少？
What do we know about the connection between olive oil consumption and LDL cholesterol?
哦，其实我们现在有一项研究——多亏了几位我们熟知并敬重的研究人员——他们招募受试者并提问...要知道，历史上大多数研究都是在糟糕饮食背景下添加橄榄油进行的，比如标准美国饮食，对吧？
Oh, well, you know, we now we actually have a study, thanks to some great researchers that we know and love, that took people and asked the so when you ask about often, most studies historically have been using adding olive oil in the context of a crappy diet, like a standard American diet or, I mean, right?
所以橄榄油会让情况变好还是变坏，通常取决于它替代的是什么。
And so it's like whether or not olive oil makes things worse or better often depends on what it's replacing.
所以如果有人原本使用黄油、猪油或其他动物脂肪，转而使用橄榄油，天啊，他们的健康状况会大幅改善，因为他们不再摄入那些饱和动物脂肪。
So if you have people who are using butter or lard or some of these animal fats, and they switch over their fat to olive oil, well, then, oh my god, they're going to get way better because they're not eating those saturated animal fats.
然后你会想：好吧，这真的是橄榄油的益处吗？
And you're like, Okay, well, that really a benefit of olive oil?
还是说这只是减少动物脂肪摄入带来的好处？
Is that just a benefit of cutting down those animal fats?
这项新研究揭示的结论是：不，并非如此。
And so what these what the new study showed was, well, no, no.
让我们让所有受试者都采用纯素饮食。
Let's let's put everybody on a vegan diet.
但一组采用含特级初榨橄榄油的纯素饮食，另一组不含，然后观察他们的低密度脂蛋白胆固醇变化。
But a vegan diet with extra virgin olive oil or without extra virgin olive oil, and let's see what happens to their LDL cholesterol.
要知道，我们其实可以测试很多指标。
Again, you know, there's lots of things we can test.
我们可以测试炎症反应，也可以测试...不过让我们先从最重要的指标开始。
We can test inflammation, we can test okay, but let's start at the top.
最重要的是，LDL胆固醇是什么？
Most important, what is the LDL cholesterol?
结果发现，纯素饮食不加特级初榨橄榄油比加特级初榨橄榄油更好，因为在纯素饮食中添加特级初榨橄榄油实际上会增加你的LDL胆固醇。
And it turns out that you're better off vegan diet without the extra virgin olive oil than a vegan diet with the extra virgin olive oil because adding extra virgin olive oil to a vegan diet actually increases your LDL cholesterol.
那是一位医生。
That was a Doctor.
Monica Agarwal的研究，如果我没记错的话。
Monica Agarwal study, if I'm not sure.
Agarwal。
Agarwal.
向Monica致敬。
Shout out to Monica.
对，对，对。
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
她挺酷的。
She's pretty cool.
好的。
All right.
让我看看。
Let's see.
我们已经讨论了很多食物，但绿茶呢？
We've talked a lot about foods, but what about green tea?
我刚和医生聊过。
I was just speaking with Doctor.
克里斯蒂·芬克医生为我们‘战胜乳腺癌’活动揭幕。
Kristi Funk to kick off our Let's Beat Breast Cancer campaign.
她非常推崇绿茶在预防癌症方面的益处，但我在想绿茶是否也对胆固醇有好处。
She was really touting the benefits in terms of cancer prevention, but I'm wondering if green tea may also have a beneficial effect on cholesterol.
遗憾的是，没有。
Unfortunately, no.
但我完全、百分百支持绿茶。
But I totally, a 100% behind green tea.
事实上，这是人们能摄入的最健康饮品之一。
In fact, one of the healthiest beverages one could possibly eat.
我在《如何抗衰老》一书中对此大加宣扬。
I talk about it, shout it from the rooftops in how not to age.
每天三杯绿茶。
Three cups of green tea a day.
无论是否含咖啡因。
And this is decaf or not.
每天三杯绿茶可使全因死亡率风险降低23%。
Three cups of green tea a day associated with a twenty three percent decrease risk in all cause mortality.
即所有死因综合统计的死亡率。
Death from all cause put together.
太神奇了。
Amazing.
而喝咖啡仅能降低约13%的风险。
Whereas drinking coffee only decreases your risk by about thirteen percent.
所以咖啡是健康的。
So coffee's healthy.
绿茶更健康，但它没达到我的筛选标准。
Green tea is even healthier, but it didn't reach my cutoff.
绿茶可能让你的胆固醇降低几个点，但再说一次，我只是因为知道会有个很长的清单才提它。
It's possible that green tea drops your cholesterol a few points, but again, I I just wanted to because I knew there's gonna be a long list.
对吧？
Right?
我们已经列了13项了。
We already got 13 things.
比如，我就没...
Like, I didn't.
我是说，如果我要包含那些能让LDL降低5个点的东西——实际上LDL最小临床重要差异是2到3个点。
I mean, if I wanted to include things that drop your LDL five points, in fact, the the minimal the minimal clinically important difference in LDL, two to three points.
意思是，如果有安全的方法能降低你的LDL胆固醇，哪怕只有2到3个点，也值得去做，这很神奇。
Meaning, you should do if there's something that decreases your LDL cholesterol that's safe, that drops your LDL cholesterol even two to three points, it's worth doing, which is amazing.
这说明低密度脂蛋白胆固醇有多糟糕。
That's showing how bad LDL cholesterol is.
两到三个点。
Two to three points.
但如果我把所有能降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇五六个点以上的方法都包括进来，整本书会变得很长，而我不在乎书有多长。
But if I included everything that drops, you know, LDL, like, five points or more than two to three points, Not none of the book would be long, and, you know, I don't care about long books.
我的书已经够疯狂了。
My books are crazy.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
我知道。
I know.
但这会让事情变得更复杂。
But but it would just get more complicated.
我希望人们先专注于主要事项、重要事项，至少先达到那十个点。
I want people let's just stick to the main things, the big things first, and let's at least hit that 10.
所以实际上，绿茶很可能使LDL降低了几点。
So, actually, green tea may very well have decreased LDL a few points.
事实上，临床相关的几点，但由于没达到10点，所以没被收录进书里。
In fact, clinically relevant few points, but because it didn't hit the 10, it didn't make the book.
最后，不知为何，我最近特别迷恋蘑菇和大蒜。
And lastly, I, for whatever reason, have been on a mushroom and garlic kick recently.
你说得我都饿了。
And I You're making me hungry.
跟你说，这两种食物真的超美味。
I'm telling you, man, like, two delicious foods.
它们和降低胆固醇有什么关联吗？
Is there a connection between that and any sort of cholesterol lowering of
天啊。
Oh my god.
你真是个聪明人，或者说你的身体很聪明。
You are a smart man Or your body is smart.
好的。
Okay.
最有效的之一。
One of the most potent.
事实上，它是最有效的吗2吗？
In fact, is it the most potent?
它是哦，不。
It is oh, no.
不是最有效的。
Not the most.
哦，它是降低胆固醇最有效的香料之一。
Oh, it's tied for the most potent spice for lowering cholesterol.
不。
No.
它实际上胜出。
It actually wins.
抱歉。
Sorry.
一
One
八分之一茶匙。
eighth of a teaspoon.
单次八分之一茶匙实际上可能是十分之一茶匙，但我认为科学数据显示它确实是十分之一茶匙。
A single eighth of a teaspoon may actually be a tenth of a teaspoon, but I I think the the science shows it's actually tenth of a teaspoon.
根本不存在十分之一茶匙这种量具。
There's no such thing as a tenth of a teaspoon spoon.
对吧？
Right?
至少我没见过。
Not that I know.
去买套量勺，最小的规格也就是八分之一茶匙了。
Get a ring of measuring spoons, the smallest you're gonna get is an eighth of a teaspoon.
所以严格来说，虽然我认为每天只需十分之一茶匙的大蒜粉就够了，但在书里我会建议用八分之一茶匙，这样大家才好量取。
So you're not even gonna be so even though technically, I think it's only tenth of a teaspoon of of garlic powder, just straight garlic powder a day, I I think I in the book, I'd say, just eighth because then something people can measure.
人们喜欢能精确测量的东西。
People like being able to measure stuff.
总之，每天八分之一茶匙大蒜粉，或者如果你用新鲜大蒜的话，相当于四分之一瓣新鲜大蒜的量。
Anyway, an eighth of a teaspoon of of garlic powder or a quarter if you if you want to do your garlic fresh, that's equivalent to a quarter clove of fresh garlic.
所以我建议大家每天吃四分之一瓣新鲜大蒜，或者八分之一茶匙大蒜粉。
So I encourage people to eat a quarter clove of fresh garlic every single day or just an eighth of a teaspoon of garlic powder.
我有一大罐超便宜的大蒜粉。
And so I have a big thing of garlic powder, which is super cheap.
我就把它撒在食物上，薄薄一层就能帮助降低胆固醇。
I just sprinkle it on foods to get that, you know, teeny little basically dusting that lowers cholesterol.
可以说，地球上最浓缩的低密度脂蛋白降低物质就是干燥大蒜粉，而且便宜得离谱。
So the most, I guess you could say, the most single concentrated LDL lowering substance on the planet is is dry garlic powder, which is, like, so ridiculously dirt cheap.
你在任何街角便利店都能买到。
You can buy it at any, like, corner convenience store.
所以比余甘子更有效。
So more potent than the amla.
对吧？
Right?
而漆树粉是半茶匙的量。
And the sumac was a half a teaspoon.
是啊。
So yeah.
太棒了。
Amazing.
好的。
Okay.
很高兴你提到这个。
I'm so glad you brought that up.
嗯。
And yeah.
蘑菇非常美味。
And mushrooms are delicious.
它们含有长寿维生素，如麦角硫因和亚精胺。
They have these longevity vitamins like ergothione and spermidine.
所以有各种好处，但不要超过10份。
So all sorts of benefits, but but don't hit the 10 cut up.
好的。
Alright.
嗯，这对大蒜来说是个好消息，因为大蒜就是那种香料。
Well, that's that's good news for garlic, man, because, I mean, garlic, that's just one of those spices.
你几乎可以把它放在任何食物上，而且
You literally can put it on pretty much anything, and it
它确实有帮助。
just it helps.
嗯，我希望大家都这么想。
Well, I wish everyone thought that.
但当我告诉人们吃大蒜时，他们的反应就像‘天啊’一样。
But when I tell people to eat garlic, there's this real, like, oh my god.
我担心我的口气。
I'm worried about my breath.
我担心我的这个那个。
I'm worried about my whatever.
不过好吧。
But alright.
嗯
Well
然而他们会毫不犹豫地吃洋葱。
And yet they'll readily eat an onion.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know.
就告诉他们去买
Just tell them to get
我不知道。
I don't know.
不过，总之是的。
But, anyway yeah.
但我是说，我无法想象八分之一茶匙的大蒜能改变任何人的体味。
But I I mean, I can't imagine an eighth of a teaspoon of garlic is gonna change anyone's body odor.
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
好吧。
Alright.
在我们结束前，我有点小意见要跟你提。
Before we go, I got a little bit of a bone to pick with you.
你伤透了我的心，但你却浑然不知。
You broke my heart, but you didn't know it.
所以今年夏天，我们正在筹备国际营养与医学会议。
So over the summer, we're getting ready to for the International Conference on Nutrition and Medicine.
我记得曾简单跟你提过，我们想在会议上策划一个游戏节目。
And I believe I mentioned briefly to you, like, we were trying to set up this game show at the conference.
你想参与吗？
Did you wanna do it?
你当时看起来兴致勃勃的。
You seemed all in for it.
你当时看起来兴致勃勃的。
You seemed all in for it.
但我的同事们说，我们不想让格雷格医生负担过重。
But my colleagues said, we're like, we don't wanna overtax doctor Gregor.
你知道的，我们不想让他太劳累。
You know, we don't wanna overtax him.
那就让他来做报告吧。
Let's just have him do the presentation.
我当时想，好吧。
I was like, okay.
这真让人扫兴。
That that stinks.
然后我在Instagram上看到什么？素食超级英雄聚会上居然有'格雷格游戏'！
And then what do I see on Instagram at the vegan superhero retreat, the Gregor Games?
那个活动超级有趣。
There it was so much fun.
简直太棒了。
It was so awesome.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
太棒了。
It was amazing.
是啊。
Yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
完全同意。
Totally.
是的。
Yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
所以我完全没问题。
So I'm all down.
你去告诉他们。
Any you tell them.
下次直接给我报名。
Next time, sign me up.
没错。
Right.
我做过小组讨论和演讲，但我完全可以全部包办。
I did a panel and presentation, but there's no reason I can't do it all.
不过我会为其他参赛者感到抱歉。
Although, I would feel bad for the other contestants.
就是说说而已。
Just saying.
我是说，我觉得那晚我们本可以需要些帮助的。
I mean, I think, we we could've used some help that night.
但你知道吗？
But you know what?
我是说，我很高兴看到格雷戈尔游戏，它们看起来棒极了。
I I mean, I'm glad that the Gregor games that that I saw, they looked fantastic.
天啊。
Oh my god.
根本不是。
It was no.
所以他们会剪辑好放到YouTube上。
So they're they're gonna edit it and put it on YouTube.
真的吗？
Are they?
敬请期待。
So so stay tuned.
好的。
Okay.
它会发布的。
It'll be it'll be out there.
那真是太棒了。
It was a blast.
我很期待这个。
I'm looking forward to this.
我确实很期待。
I definitely am.
但我想用我们独特的魔法风格来重现它，贝克医生。
But I I wanna recreate it with our own unique brand of magic here, doctor Baker.
好吧。
Alright.
我同意。
I'm down.
天啊。
Man.
好的。
Alright.
是这样的。
So here's the deal.
在我们进入那个游戏节目之前，因为那将是未来的事，我们现在有这个研讨会。
Before we get to that game show, because that's gonna be in the future, we do have this seminar.
再次提醒，注册截止日期是10月8日，实际活动日期是10月10日。
Again, registration closes October 8, the actual date is October 10.
当然，现在节目描述和单集笔记里就有获取书籍副本的链接。
And then, of course, there is a link to pick up your copy of the book right now in the show description and in the episode notes.
博士。
Doctor.
格雷戈尔，一如既往地感谢你。
Gregor, thank you as always.
你是最棒的。
You are the man.
医生。
Doctor.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
非常激动能将这个项目推向世界，感谢你的帮助。
So excited to get this out in the world and appreciate your help in doing so.
继续保持出色的工作。
Keep up the good work.
特别感谢医生。
Huge thank you to Doctor.
迈克尔·格雷格加入我们并聚焦胆固醇问题，这是关乎健康最重要的指标之一。
Michael Gregor for joining us and shining a spotlight on cholesterol, one of the most important numbers when it comes to your health.
别忘了，节目备注里有获取格雷格医生著作的链接。
And don't forget, there are links to pick up a copy of Doctor.
还有降胆固醇书籍的购买链接以及研讨会报名通道。
Greger's cholesterol lowering book, as well as to register for the seminar in the episode notes.
让我们回顾一下今天的内容。
So let's recap today.
以下是已知的事实。
Here's what we know.
我们知道美国有超过九千万成年人患有高胆固醇，但许多人甚至没有意识到这一点。
We know that more than ninety million adults in The United States have high cholesterol and yet many don't even realize it.
我们还知道LDL是心脏病的主要风险因素，而心脏病仍是全球头号死因。
We also know that LDL is the leading risk factor for heart disease, which remains the number one cause of death worldwide.
我们也清楚高胆固醇会增加中风、糖尿病甚至阿尔茨海默病的风险。
And we also know that high cholesterol raises the risk for strokes, diabetes and even Alzheimer's disease.
而LDL胆固醇每降低百分之一呢？
And every one percent drop in LDL cholesterol?
这意味着心脏病风险也会相应降低约百分之一。
Well, that translates into about a one percent drop in heart disease risk.
所以你的LDL越低，患病风险就越低。
So the lower your LDL, the lower your risk.
那么好消息是什么？
And the good news?
正如医生
As Doctor.
格雷格所解释的，在许多情况下，食物比药物更有效。
Greger explained, food can be even more powerful than medicine in a lot of cases.
添加一些基于实证的简单食物，比如黑豆、苹果、大蒜粉，甚至香料如漆树粉。
Adding simple evidence based foods like black soybeans and apples and garlic powder, even spices like sumac.
它们都能以天然、安全且无副作用的方式降低你的胆固醇。
They can all lower your cholesterol naturally, safely and without side effects.
所以如果你想深入了解，请务必查阅医生
So if you want to go deeper, again, be sure to check out Doctor.
格雷格的新书《用食物自然降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇》。
Greger's new book, Lower LDL Cholesterol Naturally with Food.
所有收益都将捐赠给慈善机构，书中充满了食谱、研究和简单的步骤，可以改善你的健康状况。
All of the proceeds go to charity and it is packed with recipes and research and simple steps that can change your health for the better.
别忘了即将举办的研讨会，它会以视频形式生动呈现所有这些内容。
And don't forget the upcoming seminar that brings all of this to life in video form.
再次提醒，所有相关链接都可以在节目笔记中找到。
And again, links for everything, they can be found in the episode notes.
请记住，如果你今天只记住一件事，那就是即使是最微小的日常改变——比如在餐盘里加一份水果、撒一点大蒜粉，或是替换掉加工食品——都能开始让天平向更健康的心脏倾斜。
So remember, if you only take one thing away from today, it's that even the smallest daily changes, something like adding a piece of fruit to your plate or sprinkling on a little bit of garlic powder or swapping out processed foods, that can all start tipping the scale toward a healthier heart.
这些都是我们为控制胆固醇水平都应该采取的简单步骤。
And those are all easy steps we should all be taking to bring our cholesterol under control.
如果你觉得自己的健康智商提升了一两点，并想帮助我们让世界变得更健康，请务必给节目打五星好评，并在苹果播客或Spotify上留下好评，这样我们才能继续制作节目，传播这些有力的信息。
And if you feel like you've raised your Health IQ by a point or two and want to help us make the world a healthier place, be sure to give the show a five star rating and leave a nice review on Apple Podcast or Spotify so that we can continue doing the show and spreading these powerful messages.
今天就到这里，我们即将结束。
And for today, that is going to wrap things up.
我想再次感谢格雷格医生。
I want to say thank you one more time to Doctor.
感谢迈克尔·格雷格博士的到来并提升了我们的健康智商。
Michael Greger for being here and raising our Health IQs.
我代表医师委员会的全体成员，我是查克·卡罗尔。
And for everyone at the Physicians Committee, I am Chuck Carroll.
非常感谢大家的收听。
Thank you so very much for listening.
请记住，一如既往，选择植物性饮食。
And remember, as always, it plant based.
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