餐桌礼仪：哪些才是真正重要的？

这个BBC播客由英国境外的广告支持。

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最佳食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《Good Food》播客的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food podcast.

每周，我都会与顶级厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革的人坐下来交谈，

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat,

所有真正让美食变得精彩的人。

all the people who really make food great.

如果你喜欢

If you love a

一顿美味的饭菜和一场精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food》播客，每周二更新新鲜剧集。

good meal and a great conversation, search for the Good Food Podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

到时候见。

See you there.

大家好，欢迎收听BBC世界服务节目，我是露丝·亚历山大，今天在伦敦威斯敏斯特学院的食堂为大家带来节目。

Hello, and welcome to the BBC World Service with me, Ruth Alexander, here in the canteen of Westminster College in London.

在本期节目中，我们将探讨用餐礼仪和规矩是否仍然重要。

In this program, we're exploring whether mealtime etiquette and manners still matter.

如果重要，那么我们该遵循哪些规则？为什么？

If so, what are the rules we should be following and why?

我们觉得，再没有比一群青少年更好的提问对象了。

And who better to ask, we thought, than a group of teenagers?

嗨。

Hi.

我叫妮可。

My name is Nicole.

我的家人来自哥伦比亚，但我出生在西班牙，今年17岁。

My family is from Colombia, but I was born in Spain, and I'm 17 years old.

你好。

Hi.

我叫塞缪尔。

My name is Samuel.

我来自塞拉利昂，位于西非，今年19岁。

I'm from Serleon, which is in West Africa, and I'm 19 years old.

我叫特林贾。

My name is Trinja.

我16岁，是英国人，但我的家人来自阿尔巴尼亚。

I'm 16, and I'm British, but my family are from Albania.

你好。

Hello.

我是埃迪翁。

I'm Edion.

我17岁。

I'm 17.

我是英国人，但我也来自阿尔巴尼亚。

I'm British, but I'm also from Albania.

你好。

Hi.

我叫阿雅。

I'm Aya.

我18岁。

I'm 18.

我是英国人，但我的家人来自伊拉克。

I'm British, but my family are from Iraq.

那么用餐习惯重要吗？

So do mealtime matters matter?

它们非常重要。

They matter a lot.

这真的能体现你来自哪里，以及你被教育如何进食。

It really shows like where you're from and how you've been educated to eat.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为第一印象真的很重要，因为如何向对方展示和呈现自己非常关键。

I would say first impressions really do matter because it also it's really important how you portray yourself, how you present yourself to the person.

那么，当你和别人坐在一起吃饭时，什么对你来说很重要？

So what matters to you if you're sitting down and eating with someone?

你希望看到什么，不希望看到什么？

What do you want to see and what don't you want to see?

双手放在腿上。

Hands straight up.

我不希望看到大声咀嚼或张着嘴吃饭，请记得说请和谢谢。

What I don't wanna see is any loud chewing or with your mouth open, please and thank you.

但我希望看到的是眼神交流，以及使用餐具进行交流。

I would like to see, though, eye contact, having a conversation using your cutlery.

有时候我觉得这可能对别人来说有点挑剔，但在膝盖上放一张纸巾或餐巾，以防洒了东西。

Sometimes and I thought this could be, like, picky for everyone else, but having a tissue or a napkin on your lap just in case you spill anything.

嗯。

Yeah.

我不想看到人们在餐桌上使用手机，因为你可能想和他们交谈，而他们却可能粗鲁地刷手机。

What I don't want to see is people using their phones on the table because you could be trying to talk to them and the rude thing they could do is scroll on their phone.

用餐时手机什么时候可以拿出来？

Are phones ever okay out at meal times?

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

百分之百不行。

A 100%.

我们已经达成了共识。

We'd agreed.

不行。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

好的。

Okay.

这就是共识。

That is consensus.

在那段时间把手机放一边对我们有好处，因为其他任何时候我们都可以玩手机。

It's good for us to put our phones aside just for that time because we can go on our phones any other time.

你这样做吗？

Do you do that?

有时候。

Sometimes.

我尽量。

I try.

我觉得这更多是关于活在当下，如果你一直玩手机或看东西，就是在剥夺你真正正在做的事情的现实感，尤其是当你的家人想和你共度时光时。

I'd say it's just more about living in the moment, like, if you're constantly on your phone or watching something, it's just like taking away from the realities of what you're actually doing and if your family are trying to spend time with you.

我非常欣赏的是身体姿态，

What I really appreciate is body posture,

你如何呈现自己，因为这表明你愿意参与其中。

how you present yourself because it shows that you want to be there.

这体现了对主人的尊重，

It shows respect towards the host,

对准备食物的人，而且，是的，它也有助于营造氛围。

the people who prepare the food, and, yeah, it just helps with the atmosphere as well.

你们都来自不同的文化。

You're all, you know, from different cultures.

你们是如何应对不同文化的期望差异的？

How do you find navigating the different expectations of different cultures?

这是个问题吗？

Is that a thing?

我会说，在我的英国文化背景和伊拉克文化背景之间，有几处不同。

I will say there is a couple of things that differ within my British side of the culture or in my Iraqi side.

例如，在伊拉克文化中，除非最年长的人坐到桌边，否则我们不会开始吃饭，之后大家才能一起用餐交流。

For example, with the Iraqi side, we wouldn't eat unless the eldest person has sat on the table and then we can start and everyone can communicate.

而我觉得，当我和朋友或家人在一起时，大家通常是各自的食物一上桌就开吃。

Whereas I feel like when I'm out with friends or family, kind of just everyone eat once their food is there.

那你呢，妮可？

How about you, Nicole?

在我的文化中，传统上是先给男性上菜，而且给他们更大的盘子。

In my culture, it's more of a traditional way, which I don't really agree on as well, but but tradition to serve men first and bigger plates than women.

他们必须先吃，也必须第一个离席，这在家乡更像是一种刻板印象。

And they always have to eat first and be the first ones to leave the table as it's more like stereotypical back at home.

但正如她所说，当你从像哥伦比亚这样的南美国家移民到这里时，文化差异就会显现出来。

But as like as she said, like, the difference in culture when you, like, emigrate from a country like Colombia, which is in South America, all the way here.

你会逐渐失去一些传统，尤其是那些你并不真正喜欢的部分。

You start really losing some bits of the traditions you've don't really enjoy like that part.

我们家里不太这么做。

We don't really do it in my house as much.

哦，那这一点也够难的。

Oh, and tough enough on that.

如果我邀请客人来我家吃饭，而他们根本不主动提出洗碗，或者你以为我会洗碗，我会觉得这很不礼貌。

If I invite guests at my house to come eat and they don't really offer to wash dishes or do you wash the dishes, I find it disrespectful.

而且，如果我去别人家，我百分百会认为这是一种服务的互换。

And as well, if I go to somewhere else, I would a 100% it's like an exchange of services.

你给我提供食物，我就洗碗，因为我觉得这纯粹是礼貌。

You give me the food, I'll wash the dishes because I feel like it's just manners.

那在阿尔巴尼亚呢？

What about in Albania?

阿尔巴尼亚和英国在用餐礼仪上有什么主要区别吗？

Are there any key differences between mealtime etiquette in Albania and The UK?

我也同意关于男女方面的说法，我觉得男性往往被对待得更加尊贵。

I also agree that the side with men and women, I think the men are very much treated a lot more like higher.

比如，他们肯定是第一个被上菜的，或者分到更大的份量，因为对我们来说，过去这是一件非常重要的事。

Like, they are definitely the ones to be served first or served bigger portions because to us, I guess, back in the day, it was a big priority.

但我也认为，这条规矩现在其实已经不重要了，也不应该再存在，因为显然每个人都应该根据自己的需求吃多少，没有人值得被优先服务。

But, also, I think that is one of the rules that I think don't really matter anymore and shouldn't really exist because I think obviously everyone should just eat how much they want to eat and no one deserves to be served first.

我注意到，现在在阿尔巴尼亚老家，我们聚餐时大家都围坐在一张大桌子旁。

I've noticed that it has changed because now back home in Albania when we gather for dinners everyone sits at a big table.

更像是

It's more like

一种传统聚会，男女在庆祝活动时通常分开坐。

a traditional gathering where men and women are separated, mainly at celebrations.

这种传统一直在延续。

Like, the tradition keeps going.

我们稍后会听到西敏学院的学生以及BBC世界服务脸书页面粉丝的更多分享。

We'll hear more from the students at Westminster College later in the program and from followers of the BBC World Service Facebook page.

我们问过，什么行为最让你在用餐礼仪上感到抓狂。

We asked what drives you crazy when it comes to mealtime manners.

我在伦敦期间，还去咨询了一家机构，该机构在过去二百五十年里一直追踪礼仪的变化。

While I was in London, I also went to get some advice from an organization which has been keeping track of changing etiquette for the past two hundred and fifty years.

就在白金汉宫不远处，坐落着一家私人俱乐部的大理石柱，我特意穿上了正装鞋前来这里。

Just a stone's throw away from Buckingham Palace are the marble pillars of a private member's club, and I've put on my smart shoes to come here.

不允许穿运动鞋或牛仔裤。

No trainers or jeans allowed.

谢谢。

Thank you.

天啊。

And my goodness.

里面还有更多的大理石柱。

More marble pillars inside.

美丽的巨大花束。

Beautiful, huge bouquet of flowers.

我想我从未见过桌上摆着这么大的花束。

I don't think I've ever seen one that big on the table in front of me.

墙上挂着肖像画。

And on the walls, portraits.

那是骑在马上的伊丽莎白二世女王。

That's Queen Elizabeth the second on horseback there.

很高兴见到你，真的。

Lovely to meet you, really.

谢谢你，老兄。

Appreciate you, mate.

太好了。

Great.

请进。

Come on in.

谢谢。

Thank you

非常感谢。

very much.

很好。

Great.

这是一个非常宏伟的场合，我来这里是为了向鲁珀特·韦森请教当今正确的做法，他的工作就是教授英国礼仪。

This is a very grand setting, and I've come here to, well, get some pointers about what the right thing to do is these days from Rupert Wesson, a man whose job it is to teach British etiquette.

鲁珀特是英国礼仪权威机构德布雷特的董事。

Rupert is a director at the British authority on etiquette debrettes.

当我们坐在一张铺着桌布、安静奢华、天花板高挑的房间里时，我不禁担心自己会不会无意中做错什么。

As we sat down at a cloth covered table in a quiet, plush, high ceilinged room, I couldn't help feeling nervous about whether I was going to somehow do the wrong thing.

我不做评判。

I don't judge.

人们经常说：‘哦，你是德布雷特的那个家伙。’

And often people say, oh, you're the chap from debrettes.

你一定对这个很在行。

You must be an expert on this.

人们非常担心我会做出评判。

And and people get very worried that I'm going to make judgments.

我不。

I don't.

一点都没有？

Not not even a little bit?

没有。

No.

我的意思是，如果我注意到什么，我也不太可能会说出来。

I mean, if I notice something, I'm unlikely to say it.

但你会注意到吗？

But you will notice?

我可能会。

I might.

事实上，你今天来到这个私人会员俱乐部是为了培训一群人。

And in fact, you're at this private members club today to train a group of people.

我可以问一下他们是谁，以及他们想接受什么方面的培训吗？

Can I ask who they are and what they want training in?

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yeah.

他们是一支来自中东政府的代表团，对西方礼仪和外交礼节都非常感兴趣。

They are a delegation from Middle Eastern government, and they're really interested in Western etiquette, but then also diplomatic protocol.

现在我们身处一个注重礼仪的地方，一位女士几乎悄无声息地为我们端来了茶，为你端来了咖啡。

Now we are in a place where good manners matter, and almost silently, a lady brought in a tray of tea for us and coffee for you.

那么这里的礼仪是什么？

Now what's the etiquette here?

作为你的客人，我是否可以直说，鲁珀特，这是你的咖啡？或者应该怎么做？

Am I, as your guest, allowed to say, Rupert, here's your coffee, or what should happen?

作为主人，我绝对应该负责把咖啡分发给大家。

As the host, it would absolutely be down to me to to to pass the coffees around.

你要我来分发吗？

Would you like me to do that?

好的，请。

Yes, please.

好的。

Okay.

这是我第一个失礼之处。

That's my first faux pas.

谢谢。

Thank you.

太好了。

Great.

现在我们有两杯茶。

Now we have two teas.

我要倒一杯茶，这样我们就知道哪杯是哪杯了。

I'm going to pour one of the teas so we know which is which.

秘诀是尽量安静地做事。

The secret is to try and do things as silently as possible.

给你。

There you go.

茶杯递到我手中时，几乎没发出一点声响。

Barely a a clink as the teacup came to me.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

你刚才真是太好了。

Now you were very kind there.

如果有人违反了礼仪，比如我是主人，家里有人做了让我觉得有点粗鲁的事，我该怎么办？

If somebody breaks etiquette, say I'm the host and someone at home has done something that I find a bit rude, what do I do?

我的意思是，一般来说，

I mean, generally speaking,

我们不会去指出它。

we don't draw attention to it.

我们有一种感觉，认为这些规则极其严格、详尽。

There is a sense that we have these incredibly rigid, detailed rules.

一般来说，考虑礼仪时最重要的是要关心和体谅他人。

Generally the most important thing to think in terms of etiquette is it's about care and consideration for other people.

因此，用餐礼仪的具体细节往往并没有你想象的那么重要。

So often the specifics of dining etiquette aren't perhaps quite as important as you'd imagine.

如果你搞错了，比如用了错误的盘子或拿错了叉子，会发生什么？

And if you get it wrong, if you use the wrong side plate, pick up the wrong fork, what will happen?

这并不是什么大罪。

It's not a capital offense.

人们确实会犯错，而这是完全可以接受的。

And people do make mistakes, and that that's fine.

那么，这一切到底是为了什么？

So what's it all about then?

这是一种用来排斥外人的规矩吗？

Is it kind of a code to keep outsiders out?

如果你能想想，或许可以回过头去，

If you can think, perhaps go back,

你

you

你知道吗，几百年前，曾经相互争斗的部落会打破武器，部落首领或其他相关人士坐在一起，以示他们已结成联盟。

know, three, four hundred years when clans who had previously been fighting have pieces broken out and the heads of the clans or whoever it might be sit down next to each other to to show that they have now formed an alliance.

这其中会存在一定程度的信任或不信任。

There'll be a certain amount of trust or mistrust.

其中一个最简单的例子是：为什么我们在敬酒时要碰杯？

And one of the perhaps the simplest example is is why do we clink glasses when we have a toast?

当你碰杯时，你会将一点你的饮料洒进他的杯子里，而他也会将一点饮料洒进你的杯子里。

If you clink glasses, you're slopping a bit of your drink into his cup and he's slopping a bit of drink into your cup.

因此，通过敬酒，你是在表明：我信任你，你也信任我，这就是我们这么做的原因。

And therefore, by having that toast, you are showing, look, I trust you, you trust me, and that's why we do it.

如果你毒害了我的饮料，现在洒进了你的杯子里，你也不会喝下去，所以……

If you've poisoned my drink that's now slopped into your cup, you won't drink it, so

没错。

Correct.

有趣的是，每个地区、国家、文化乃至亚文化都有自己的礼仪。

And what's interesting is that every region, country, culture, subculture has its own etiquette.

那么旅行者该怎么办呢？

So what is the traveler to do then?

我的建议通常是去询问，因为这是一个绝佳的谈话话题。

My advice is often to ask because it's a wonderful topic of conversation.

这不仅意味着你能学到东西，还表明你真正关心并尊重他们的行事方式。

It means that you learn, and it also shows that you are actually showing care and consideration for their way of doing things.

吃饭时戴帽子。

Hats at the table.

我们从BBC世界服务的听众那里听说，这是不被允许的。

We're hearing from BBC World Service listeners that that is a no no.

是这样吗？

Is that right?

这不是我会做的事情。

It's not something I would do.

事实上，我根本不会在室内戴帽子。

In fact, I would not be wearing a hat inside anyway.

来自南苏丹的艾萨克告诉我们，吃饭时这对他来说是个大问题。

And Isaac in South Sudan told us that it's a real problem for him when he's eating.

他洗了手，用手吃饭，然后有人走过来想跟他打招呼。

He's washed his hands, and he's eating with his hands, and then somebody comes up and wants to greet him.

嗨，食物链。

Hi, the food chain.

这样是可以的。

It is okay.

人们可以打招呼，但不必与正在吃饭的人握手。

People can be greeting, but it is not necessary to shake hands with someone who is eating.

我觉得要跟你握手，然后我就停下吃饭走开了。

I feel like to shake hands with you, and then I stop eating and go.

想象一下，你可能在没洗手的情况下过来，或者你虽然洗了手但没洗干净，然后就来和我握手。

Imagine you you may be coming when you when you did not wash or you have you might have washed your hands but not well, then you come and check your hand with me.

也许你把手洗得很干净，但吃饭时我怎么相信你的手是干净的呢？

Maybe you you wash your hands well, but how can I trust your hands when I'm eating?

你能理解他当时的立场吗？

Can you see where he's coming from there?

当然。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

通常情况下，如果我在房间里遇到某人，我会站起来和他握手。

Ordinarily, if I I meet somebody in a room, I will stand up and I will shake hands.

但一旦开始用餐，就绝对不可以了。

But once you started dining, definitely not.

我的原则是，绝不能在餐桌上握手。

I mean, I always work on the basis that you should never shake hands over a table.

那吃饭时嘴里含着食物说话呢？我不喜欢看到别人这样，但其实我觉得我自己有时也会这样。

What about talking with your mouth full, which I've don't like to see in others, but I actually think I might sometimes do myself.

有时候我觉得，如果我用手遮住嘴继续说话，可能还行，但我不确定这到底对不对，你觉得呢？

And sometimes I think it's okay if I carry on talking with my mouth full if I put my hand over my mouth, but I'm not sure it is, is it?

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

尤其是因为这样会让你的话很难听清楚。

Not least because it makes you quite hard to understand.

谢谢。

Thank you.

鲁珀特·韦森。

Rupert Wesson.

吃饭时发出响声是BBC世界服务听众提出最多的投诉。

Eating noisily was probably the number one complaint raised by BBC World Service listeners.

但在世界某些地方，吃饭时发出声音反而是用餐时最优雅的行为之一。

But in some parts of the world, it's one of the most graceful things you could do at a meal.

我一直在伦敦城市学院的日语教师永川千佳那里学习如何礼貌地发出吃饭的声音。

And I've been having a lesson in polite noisy eating from Chika Nagagawa, a Japanese language tutor at CityLit adult education institution in London.

这样怎么样？

And how's this?

很好，很好，很好。

It's good, good, good.

快了，快了，对。

Getting there, getting Yeah.

对。

Yep.

快了。

Getting there.

对。

Yeah.

也许快一点更好。

Maybe quicker is good.

实际上，这样很好，很好，很好，更像那种，你知道的，更顺滑。

Actually, it's good, good, good, much more like, you know, smoother.

对，对。

Yeah, yeah.

Chika正在教我怎么吃面条。

Chika is coaching me on how to eat noodles.

那为什么吸面条是好的呢？

So why is it good to slurp?

嗯，这样可以在吃的时候降温，同时也向为你做饭的人表达欣赏。

Well, it's just bring the temperature down while eating, but also showing that appreciation to the person who cook for you.

所以吸面条是一种赞美吗？

So it's a compliment to slurp?

是的。

Yes.

吸面条会吸太多吗？

Can you slurp too much?

也许吸得太响会给自己带来问题，也会让旁边的人感到不适。

Maybe too much is a bit causing problem to yourself, but also to other people sitting next to you.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

是的。

Yeah.

因为面条末尾沾着汤，会溅得到处都是，这样不太雅观，是吧

Because it's end of the noodle has a bits of soup, and it's scratched to everywhere, and it's not nice, is

吗？

it?

好的。

Okay.

所以要适度吸食。

So medium slurp.

没错。

That's right.

谢谢

Thank

非常感谢你的分享。

you very much for that.

我会努力提升我的吃面吸吮技巧。

I will I will work on my noodle slurping skills.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

关于筷子有什么规矩吗？

What are the rules around chopsticks?

其实很少。

So quite few there.

筷子的规矩很少。

Quite few chopstick rules.

不吃饭的时候，和刀叉一样，但要放在筷子架上。

When you're not eating, it's same as fork and knife anyway, but leave it on a chopstick list.

还有，不要用筷子直接夹食物传递给别人。

And also, don't pass food by using chopstick by chopstick.

好的。

Okay.

所以你不会用自己的筷子直接把食物夹到别人的筷子上？

So you wouldn't pass food with your own chopsticks directly to somebody else's chopsticks?

这样不好。

No good.

好的。

Okay.

为什么？

Why?

因为这让人联想到葬礼。

Well, because it's a reminder of the funeral.

是的。

Yeah.

比如说，在葬礼仪式快结束时，火化之后，我们会看到逝者的骨骸。

So let's say towards the end of the funeral ceremony, after the crematorium, we're gonna see that person's bone.

骨骸会放在托盘上。

It comes on a tray.

所有亲友都会用筷子夹起骨头，互相传递，亲友之间用筷子传递。

All the relatives and friends gonna pick up the bone passing, you know, by friend and relatives by relatives using chopstick.

所以，如果你在用餐时这样做，就会让人联想到葬礼。

So, you know, if you do that in the dining space, it's maybe it's a reminder of the funeral.

这不太合适。

It's not nice.

好的。

Okay.

这真是绝对不可以的。

So that's a real no no.

我的意思是，如果你从小没用过筷子，它们可能会很难用，我本人就完全不觉得熟练。

I mean, chopsticks, if if you've not grown up using them, they can be quite tricky, and I I certainly don't feel proficient.

问一下要刀叉会不会很无礼？

Is it rude to ask for

用刀叉？没问题。

a knife and fork?

没问题。

Oh, no problem.

没问题。

No problem.

如果你不擅长用筷子，一定要提出来，否则你根本没法享受美食。

If you're not good at it, and please please ask because otherwise, it's you cannot enjoy.

但有时候看起来就像受刑一样。

But sometimes it looks like a torture.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，你知道的，别担心。

And then, you know, like, don't worry.

所以，享受你的食物是最重要的。

So enjoy your food is the most important.

访客去日本需要知道的唯一规则是什么？

What's the one rule a visitor to Japan needs to know?

我认为是表达感激之情，不仅对做饭的人，也对食物之神。

I think it's showing appreciation, not only to the person who cooked, but also to the god of the food.

对食物之神。

To the god of the food.

是的。

Yeah.

吃饭前，我们会说一句意思是‘我接受了’的话。

And before eating, we say, which means I receive.

吃完后，我们会说‘いただきます’。

After eating, it was feast.

换句话说，就是对食物表示感谢。

In other word, it's thank you for the food.

所以这两个短语非常重要，我不断提醒我的所有学生一定要说。

So that sort of two phrases are really important, and I keep saying to all my students that do say it.

否则，会让人感到失望。

Otherwise, it's disappointing.

中川知花。

Chika Nakagawa.

您正在收听BBC世界服务的《食物链》。

You're listening to the Food Chain from the BBC World Service.

我是露丝·亚历山大。

I'm Ruth Alexander.

本周，我们讨论的是用餐礼仪，什么才是真正重要的。

And this week, we're talking about mealtime etiquette, what really matters.

在伦敦，青少年学生们正在比较饮食文化，重点关注艾亚的伊拉克传统和妮可尔的哥伦比亚传统。

In London, the teenage students are comparing food cultures, focusing on Ayah's Iraqi traditions and Nicole's Colombian ones.

通常，在我家，

Normally, in my house,

你会用一只脚来做所有事情。

you would use, like, one foot for everything.

你会好好喝汤，不是吗？

You would eat the soup well, no.

实际上，你会用勺子来吃汤。

Actually, a like, a spoon, you would eat.

你会用它喝汤，然后吃米饭，也可以用它切东西

You'll soup with that, then you have your rice, then you can also cut

用勺子切肉。

your meat with a spoon.

或者有时候你其实并不需要

Or sometimes you don't really need

用勺子，你就直接咬下来，因为那是肉。

the spoon, you just bite it off because it's meat.

用手拿起来，然后直接咬一口。

Take it with your hands and then just take a bite.

因为你是用面包吃它，然后直接扯下来，因为肉很韧。

Up because you eat it with a bread and then you just pull it off because it's a strong meat.

对于我们来说，只有在特殊场合才会使用餐具。

It has to be really like a special occasion for us really to use cutlery.

但这只是在哥伦比亚，在伊拉克就不一样了。

But this is in Colombia, but in Iraq.

我们实际上用餐具吃所有东西，因为用手吃可能会弄脏。

We actually use cutlery for everything because it might make a little bit of a mess.

所以在伊拉克，你不会用手吃饭。

So in Iraq, you wouldn't eat with your hands.

但在哥伦比亚，用手吃饭完全说得通。

But in Colombia, it makes total sense to eat with your hands.

这绝对是每个人都会做的事。

It's absolutely what everybody does.

食物。

The food.

你在品尝它。

You're tasting it.

你在分析它有多美味。

You're analyzing how delicious it is.

所以是的。

So yes.

我觉得，当你带着更多的快乐用手吃东西时，这展现了你有多喜欢它，有多觉得‘这太好吃了’，

I feel like when you eat it with more, like, happiness, you eat it with your hand, it shows how much you like it and how much you're like, oh, this is so delicious, like,

那你会怎么吃披萨？

So how would you eat a pizza?

我妈妈会用刀叉吃披萨。

My mom would eat a pizza with a knife and fork.

如果我用手吃披萨，我会被狠狠责备。

And if I try to eat a pizza with my hands, I would get an absolute telling.

所以，还是用刀叉吧。

So, yeah, fork and knife it is.

如果你吃汉堡，你会用面包刀。

And if you have burgers, you would have a bread knife.

如果你有

And if you have

所以吃汉堡时也用面包刀，哇。

So with a burger, also eat them with a bread knife, like, wow.

这很有趣。

That's interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的让我

That's really I

我想我们每天都能学到新东西。

guess we learn something new every day.

是的。

Yes.

但如果你从未被教导过所有规则呢？

What if you haven't been taught all the rules, though?

即使在你自己的文化中，有些用餐礼仪也可能像地雷阵一样令人困惑，我们的下一位嘉宾雷吉·尼尔森就深有体会。

Even within your own culture, there are meal settings that can feel like a minefield, as our next guest Reggie Nelson knows.

我出身于相对平凡的家庭。

I came from relatively humble beginnings.

我从小在东伦敦长大，童年虽然有趣，但也相当艰难。

I grew up in East London, and growing up was fun but was also quite challenging at the same time.

不幸的是，我父母都是酒鬼，因此在我成长过程中，家里充满了暴力和争吵。

I unfortunately grew up with two alcoholic parents, so there was a lot of violence at home and a lot of words of war at home when I was growing up.

他17岁时父亲去世了，雷吉觉得从那时起，照顾家人是他的责任。

His dad died when he was 17, and Reggie felt it was up to him now to look after his family.

然而，由于我成长的环境，我不认识任何从事体育、音乐之外职业的人，也很少有人能摆脱犯罪的宿命。

However, I didn't know anyone that had established careers outside of sports, outside of music, or unfortunately outside of criminality just because of the environment I was I was raising.

尽管如此，雷吉仍毫不气馁，极具进取心，他查出了伦敦最富裕的街道，挨家挨户敲门，询问人们是如何赚到钱的。

Undeterred and extraordinarily enterprising, Reggie looked up the wealthiest streets in London and began knocking on doors to ask people how they'd made their money.

当我正在肯辛顿和切尔西区挨家挨户拜访时，我敲开了可能是我遇到过的最友善的一户人家——普赖斯家的门。

And whilst I was door knocking in Kensington and Chelsea, I knocked on the door of probably the nicest family I could have ever come across called the Price family.

昆汀·普赖斯当时是一家全球最大的资产管理公司的高管。

Quentin Price was at the time a boss in one of the world's largest asset management companies.

他愿意给我一个机会。

He took a chance at me.

他决定成为我的导师。

He decided that he was gonna mentor me.

他鼓励我上大学。

He encouraged me to go to university.

从那以后，他一直是我人生中的导师。

And he has been my mentor ever since.

快进到今天，我大学毕业，开始了在资产管理领域的职业生涯，现在我在伦敦一家私募股权公司担任副总裁。

And fast forwarding, graduated university, started my career in asset management, and now I work in in London as a vice president for a private equity firm.

所以，凭借纯粹的想象力、毅力和勇气，你把自己推向了伦敦完全不同的领域——金融界。

So really, through sheer imagination and tenacity and courage, you propelled yourself into a completely different part of London, the the city, the world of finance.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这还伴随着正式的晚宴和活动。

And that's one that comes with formal dinners and events.

你觉得自己对这方面准备得怎么样？

How equipped did you feel for that side of things?

是的。

Yeah.

我从未身处过那种餐桌上摆着多副刀叉的环境。

I'd never been in those environments where you had multiple forks on a table, multiple knives on the table.

我第一个念头当然是：为什么桌上会有这么多不同的叉子、勺子和刀？

And my first thought was obviously, why is there so many different forks and spoons and knives on table?