为美食放弃一切

想象一下，你有一份很棒的工作，薪水丰厚、声望卓著，家人为你骄傲，而你却毅然放弃，去追逐梦想。

Imagine you've got a great job, well paid, prestigious, your family are proud, and you walk away from it to chase a dream.

我觉得，如果我不这么做，我这一生就白活了，正是这个想法促使我下定决心。

I thought if I don't do this, I will have lived a half life, and that is where the thought came.

然后，现实迎面而来。

And then reality hits.

那简直太可怕了。

It was very dreadful.

破产的念头非常清晰地浮现在我脑海中。

The thought of going bankrupt was very vivid.

在今天这期BBC世界服务频道《食物链》节目中，我是主持人露丝·亚历山大，我将采访三位为美食而放弃一切的人。

In today's episode of the food chain from the BBC World Service with me, Ruth Alexander, I'm talking to three people who gave it all up for food.

我戴上安全帽，穿上高可见度工作服，亲手建造了我的第一家餐厅。

I put on a hard hat and high vis, and I physically built my first restaurants.

在专业厨房里，你必须从最底层做起，因为我当时

The professional kitchens, you start at the bottom because I had

在我比所有人都年长之前，我已经拥有了一段完全不同的职业生涯。

a whole other career before I was older than everybody else.

对我而言，无论有起有落，这都是一份持续不断的祝福与喜悦。

It has been for me, with all of its ups and downs, an unrelenting blessing and joy.

那么，让我们来认识一下我们的嘉宾。

So let's meet our guests.

尼莎·卡托纳拥有莫格利街头食品连锁餐厅，这是一家位于英国的印度餐厅。

Nisha Katona owns Mowgli Street Food, an Indian restaurant chain in The UK.

在此之前，她是一名专注于儿童保护的出庭律师。

Before that, she was a barrister specializing in child protection.

杜克·何创立了一家三明治店，后来在芬兰赫尔辛基开设了小酒馆“The Alley”，他放弃了工程师的职业。

Duc Ngo, who set up a sandwich shop and later a bistro, The Alley in Helsinki, Finland, left behind a career in engineering.

朱迪·周是首尔鸟连锁韩式快餐店的创始人，该店在英国和美国均有分店，她最初是一名在华尔街工作的金融从业者。

And Judy Joo, the founder of Seoul Bird, a Korean fast food chain with outlets in The UK and The US, started out as a financier on Wall Street.

那么，为什么要放弃呢？

So why give it up?

朱迪？

Judy?

我当时工作时间长得离谱。

I was working ridiculously long hours.

虽然我在金融行业收入相当丰厚，也学到了很多，但我对这份工作毫无热情。

And although I was paid quite handsomely in finance and I was learning a lot I just didn't have a passion for it.

我根本感觉不到自己在创造什么，只是在不停地搬钱。

I didn't really feel like I was creating anything I was just moving money around.

我觉得尼莎之前的工作听起来非常有意义，能为世界做好事，但我的工作纯粹就是把钱从这儿挪到那儿，到处赚点手续费，完全感觉不到自己在建设什么，也没帮到任何人，更谈不上有什么成就感。

I think Nisha's previous job sounds very rewarding in terms of doing good for the world, but I was literally just like you know, moving money from here to there and just scraping off fees everywhere and I didn't feel like I was building anything or helping anybody or doing anything that fulfilling.

所以我一直都很喜欢做饭。

So I, I always loved to cook.

我一直热爱美食，尽管父母很不高兴，我还是辞了职，去纽约的法国烹饪学院报名学厨，开始在杂志和餐厅工作。

I always loved food and much to the chagrin of my parents, I quit and I enrolled in cooking school in New York City at the French Culinary Institute and you know started doing jobs at magazines and restaurants.

后来我搬到伦敦，在那里开始在餐厅工作，最初是在米其林星级餐厅，甚至在三家米其林三星餐厅做高级料理，之后我决定要开一家属于自己的店。

Then I moved across the pond to London and that's where I started working in restaurants and I started in Michelin starred restaurants and three Michelin starred restaurants doing fine dining And then I decided that I wanted to open my own place.

这是一段非常艰难的旅程，我想这么说。

And it's been a very hard journey, would say.

这充满了坚韧、汗水和泪水。

It's, you know, full of grit and blood, sweat, and tears.

所以你放弃了很多东西。

So you gave a lot up.

杜克，是什么让你放弃了土木工程？

Duke, what made you turn your back on civil engineering?

实际上，我的背景也和朱迪很相似。

Actually, my backstory sounds a lot like Judy's as well.

我曾经在北欧两家最大的咨询公司工作。

I used to work for two of the biggest consulting company in Nordics.

在某个阶段，我感到对我的职场生活极度厌倦，因为工作时间也很长，压力也很大。

And up to a certain point, I feel like I'm really, really fed up with my corporate life because it's also very long hours and also very stressful as well.

食物一直都在那里。

And food has always been there.

我父母曾经在越南河内经营一家很大的餐厅。

My parents used to own a really big restaurant in Hanoi in Vietnam.

所以，我就是在这样的环境中长大的。

So that is kind of like the environment that I grew up in.

然后，我所有的空闲时间都用来品尝餐厅、旅行、体验美食文化。

And then I spent all of my free time trying restaurants, traveling, enjoying the food culture.

因此，美食一直是我生活中非常重要的一部分。

So it has always been a big part of my life.

所以在我的工程职业生涯末期，我问自己：好吧，我想做出改变。

So at the end of my engineering career, I was asking myself, okay, I want to make a change.

那么，我是该十年后再做，还是现在就做？

So should I do it ten years later to now?

还是趁我现在还年轻、一无所有的时候就行动？

Or should I do it now when I'm still young and I got nothing to lose?

那Nisha，你呢？

And Nisha, how about you?

我的意思是，儿童保护事务律师，很多人会想，哇，你一定付出了很多努力才做到这个位置。

I mean, child protection barrister, lot of people would think, wow, what a job you must have, you know, really worked hard to get there.

那为什么还要放弃呢？

So why give that up?

我确实做了，而且我非常享受这份工作的每一刻。

I did and I absolutely loved every minute of that job.

我觉得我这辈子都没真正工作过一天。

I feel I haven't worked a day in my life.

不得不说，如果你从事的是自己喜欢的工作，那你真的很幸运。

Have to say, you know, if you've got jobs that you enjoy, you are really blessed.

我意识到，作为在英国出生的第一代印度移民，当他们离开后，会带走许多食谱和经过验证的香料配方。

What I realized is having been born in The UK, once the first generation Indians that came over, once they leave us, they take with them a lot of these recipes, a lot of these tried and tested spice formulas.

因此，当我还是律师时，我热衷于记录这些食谱，并教给我身边的英国人。

So while I was a barrister, I became very evangelical about capturing those recipes and teaching them to the Brits around me.

而且，你知道，我并没有商业背景。

And, you know, I didn't come from a business background.

我的父母都是印度医生，他们对经商毫无兴趣。

Two Indian doctors as parents had nothing but disdain for business.

然而，我却产生了一个想法：既然人们都想学做这道菜，也许他们也愿意购买它。

And yet there was this thought that, look, this food that people want to learn how to cook, maybe they would wanna buy it.

你知道，Mowgli 所代表的，是印度家庭日常饮食在街头的呈现，而这种饮食在英国却从未出现过。

You know, what what Mowgli is is it's the way that Indians eat at home represented on the high street, and it wasn't represented in The UK.

于是这个想法浮现在我脑海中，并让我彻夜难眠。

And so this thought came to my head and it kept me awake.

我想，如果我不这么做，我这一生就白活了。

I thought, if I don't do this, I will have lived a half life.

正是这个想法催生了这一切。

And that is where the thought came.

而且

And

我想知道，早期的日子是什么样子的。

I wonder what the early days were like.

朱迪，离开华尔街的光鲜亮丽和漫长工作时间后，现实是什么样的？

Judy, what was the reality having left the glamour, the glitz, and the long hours of Wall Street?

专业厨房的现实是什么样的？

What was the reality of a professional kitchen?

在专业厨房里，你得从最底层做起，你知道的，而我因为之前有另一段职业生涯，年龄比所有人都大，可能和主厨的年龄更接近，而不是和那些初级厨师差不多——那时我快三十岁了，尤其是在三使命星餐厅工作时。

The professional kitchens, you start at the bottom, you know, and I was actually because I had a whole other career before, was older than everybody else and probably you know closer to age to the head chef than I was to a call me chef you know this is in my late 20s I was doing this and especially in the three Mission Star restaurants.

那时候，这种经历有点像入伙考验。

It's a little bit of a hazing particularly back then.

那是一个还没有‘觉醒’、还没有‘我也是’运动的时代。

This is pre woke world also and pre me too.

是的。

Know.

所以厨房里充满了虐待。

So there was a lot of abuse in kitchens.

金融行业里也充满了虐待。

There was a lot of abuse in finance.

明白。

Know.

你跟人说话的方式，现在简直会被人告上法庭。

You talk to people in ways that you would literally be sued now.

所以某种程度上，你在金融行业的工作经历让你做好了心理准备，能够适应厨房的环境。

So in some ways your career in finance might prepared you, gave you a thickened skin ready for the kitchen.

完全没错，而且我觉得，因为我当时在交易大厅工作，我对压力的承受阈值非常高，因为我就是那种整天都在大喊大叫的人。

Completely, and I would say it, because I was working on the trading floor, my bar for stress was so high, Cause I was literally one of these people that was screaming all day.

我得掐着时间去上厕所。

I had to time my bathroom breaks.

因为市场开盘时，你简直像疯子一样到处乱跑。

Cause when the market is open, like you are running around like a maniac.

我当时面前有45条电话线，两部手持电话，一个耳机，九块屏幕，样样俱全。

You, I had, you know, 45 phone lines in front of me, two handsets, a headset, like nine screens, everything.

所以当我进入厨房后，大家总说米其林星级厨房的工作压力有多大，我就会说：伙计们，我们不过是在做蛋糕而已。

So when I got to the kitchens and everybody talks about like the high stress life of working in Michelin Star's kitchens, I'm like, guys, we're making cake.

我们在做食物。

We're making food.

如果有人的餐点晚了五分钟，虽然不太好，但后果只限于餐厅内，你明白吗？你不会因此搞垮一个账户，所以我的压力阈值非常高，导致我在厨房工作时反而没觉得多有压力，只是埋头苦干。

If somebody gets their meal five minutes late, it's not great but the repercussions end in the dining room you know what I mean like you're not going to implode an entire account you know so my bar for stress was so high that I actually didn't feel that stressed out when I was working in kitchens I just kinda kept my head down.

但真的，他们会扔给我一箱箱的菠萝或柠檬之类的东西，再给一把刀，说：把这些柠檬榨汁，把这些菠萝去皮，就是最底层的工作。

But literally, would I would be handed crates and crates of pineapples or or lemons or something and a knife and be like, juice all these lemons, peel all these pineapples, and like, so the really bottom of the rung type of jobs.

这很难接受吗？

Was that hard to take?

当然。

Definitely.

当然。

Definitely.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

就是说，如果这真是我想做的事，你就得从最底层做起。

Was like, if this is what I wanna do, you have to start at the bottom.

我认为这段经历非常有用，因为如果你不了解从底层做起、一步步往上爬的感觉，你就无法真正理解一道菜背后需要付出多少努力。

And I think it was a very useful experience because if you don't learn what it's like to be from on the bottom and work your way up, you don't have that knowledge to understand what it takes to make a dish.

尼莎，你刚进入专业厨房时是什么样的经历？

Nisha, what what were your first forays into the professional kitchen like?

嗯，当我还是律师的时候，这几乎就像在做一场如何打造生意的小测验。

Well, I used to while I was still a barrister, it was almost like doing a a little exam in how to build a business.

所以当我还是律师时，午休时间和庭审结束后，我会去餐厅和咖啡馆外站着，观察人们点什么菜、付多少钱，以及在英国午餐时间是否有人吃辣的食物。

So when I was a barrister during the lunch breaks and after court I would go and I would stand outside restaurants and cafes and see what people were ordering, how much were they paying, were people eating spicy things at lunchtime in The UK.

我会去认识的人所经营的专业厨房里站着，观察他们使用什么样的厨具。

I would go and stand in professional kitchens, you know, belonging to people that I knew and just watch what kind of kit they were using.

你知道，锅有这么高，而我只有五英尺高。

You know, the pans are this tall and I was five foot.

所以，我不得不在我的厨房里为女厨师们准备凳子，让她们能看清锅里的东西，诸如此类。

So how on earth, you know, I have to have stools in my kitchens for female chefs to look into the pans and things like that.

所以，从这个角度来说，这真的一直是一种乐趣。

So no, it has been a joy really in that way.

杜克，你当时在社交媒体上记录了你早期的经历。

Duc, you were documenting your early experiences on social media.

在最初的视频里，你看起来充满激情。

And in the first videos, you seem full of excitement.

刚开始的时候是什么样子的？

What was it like at the very beginning?

当然，一开始非常令人兴奋，也特别激动。

Well, of course, it's very thrilling, but also very excited at the beginning.

这还挺有意思的，因为我一直以为，好吧，当我辞掉工程师的工作，自己创业后，或许能少干点活，但结果完全相反。

And it's kind of funny because I've always thought that, okay, now when I quit my engineering job, I open my own business, maybe I can work less hours, but it turned out all the way around.

以前我做朝九晚五的工作，现在当了老板，反而变成了24/7全天候工作。

So before I got like a nine to five job and now it just turned into a 20 fourseven job when I become a business owner.

这真是一个巨大的冲击。

So it was an absolute shock.

如果员工出了问题，那就是我的问题。

If your employee got some issue, it's my problem.

如果供应商不交货，那就是我的问题。

If the supplier doesn't deliver, it's my problem.

如果马桶坏了，那也是我的问题。

If the toilet is broken, it's also my problem as well.

从这个意义上说，这和我过去的生活截然不同。

So in that kind of sense, it was very different from my previous life.

这让你感到意外吗？

And did that take you by surprise?

非常意外。

Very much.

我知道这很艰难，因为我看到我父母经营餐厅时日以继夜地工作，那是一家将近400个座位的大餐厅，我亲眼目睹了其中的混乱与繁忙，所以我多少有点心理准备，但当你真正亲手去做这些事时，完全是另一回事。

I know it was tough because I saw my parents, how they worked day and night when they were running the restaurant and it was a massive one, was like almost 400 seat restaurant and I saw how chaotic and how busy it can be, so I kind of have an idea, but still when you actually get your hands on and do all of those stuff, it's a very different story.

杜克，我家里没有人开过餐厅，但你亲眼看到了你父母有多辛苦。

Duke, I didn't have any restaurateurs in my family, but you saw how hard it was for your parents.

那是什么让你决定也要做这一行呢？

So what made you want to do it?

说实话，我可以直截了当地说，这是我的热情所在，因为即使我当工程师的时候，比如去一个新国家，去西班牙，我也不是很热衷于观光、参观博物馆之类的事情。

Well, to be honest, I can just come very straight up and say it's my passion, because even when I was working as an engineer, and let's say, for example, I go to a new country, I go to Spain, I am not very much into doing sightseeing or, you know, seeing, going to museums and stuff.

我会直接去他们的餐厅。

I go straight to their restaurants.

我会尝遍那里所有的食物。

I just try all of the food there.

我基本上80%的时间都在吃东西。

I spend basically, you know, 80% of my time trying food.

就连我女朋友都说，你也该做点别的事情。

Even my girlfriend, she's like, but you should do something else as well.

我们已经吃得很饱了。

We are very full.

但你知道，即使吃得很饱，我饭后还是能去吃油条，这就是我的执念。

But, you know, can be very full and I can still go for churros after my dinner and you know, that's my kind of obsession.

你父母知道餐厅生活的现实有多艰难，他们对你的这个决定怎么看？

Did your parents think of this decision of yours, given that they knew the realities of restaurant life, how hard it can be?

说实话，我妈妈非常生我的气。

My mom was very mad at me, to be honest.

你知道亚洲父母都是这样的。

Like, know Asian parents.

我想朱迪可能也注意到了。

I think probably Judy noticed as well.

在他们眼里，工程师是一份很有声望的工作，为大公司工作也是非常重要的事。

Engineering was, or engineer has been like a prestigious job in their eyes, and working for big corporate is also another big thing as well.

所以当我辞职时，我妈妈非常生气。

So then when I quit, my mom was very mad.

她说：不行，你必须停止这一切，得回去上班，因为这并不是我们希望你做的事。

She was like, no, you need to stop this, you need to go back to your job because this is not what we want you to do.

你正在收听BBC世界服务的《食物链》。

You're listening to The Food Chain from the BBC World Service.

我是露丝·亚历山大。

I'm Ruth Alexander.

本周，为了美食放弃一切。

This week, giving it all up for food.

我采访了三位人士，他们放弃了高薪且稳定的职业，转而追求开设餐饮生意的梦想。

I'm talking to three people who walked away from well paid established careers to pursue their dream of having a food business.

韩国餐厅连锁老板朱迪·朱最初在华尔街从事金融工作。

Korean restaurant chain owner Judy Joo started out in finance on Wall Street.

尼莎·卡托纳曾是律师，如今在英国经营一家印度餐厅连锁。

Nisha Katona is a barrister turned Indian restaurant chain owner in The UK.

杜克·吴从工程师转型为三明治店老板，但这一转变并不顺利。

And Duc Ngo made the leap from engineering to sandwich shop ownership, which did not go to plan.

基本上，这个商业模式真的很难运作。

Basically, the business model is just really hard to work.

芬兰的劳动力成本非常高。

So one thing is that labor costs in Finland is very, very high.

这使得三明治的成本大幅上升。

So that pushed up the cost of the sandwich quite a lot.

此外，食材成本也非常高。

Also, the ingredient cost is also very high as well.

我必须把一个三明治卖到15或16美元才能盈亏平衡，而且每天得卖出70到100个三明治才能维持生意，但这在现实中行不通。

I have to sell a sandwich for 15 or 16 US dollars to kind of like break even and I have to sell 70 to 100 sandwich per day to keep the business going, which medically doesn't work.

人们并没有排着队来买15美元的三明治。

People were not queuing up in those sorts of numbers to buy a $15 sandwich.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们想找一个餐饮流量大的地方，租金会高到我们根本负担不起。

And if we try to find a location that have a lot of food traffic, then the rent is gonna be extremely high that we are not able to afford it anyhow.

所以你的选址没成功？

So So your location didn't work?

对。

Yeah.

那个地方并不适合卖三明治。

It wasn't the right location for a sandwich

店铺？

shop?

没错。

Exactly.

有没有那么一个时刻，让你永远铭记，当时你看着账目，意识到事情已经严重失控了？

Is there a moment that will probably forever stick in your mind where you looked at the numbers and you could see that things were going badly wrong?

是的。

Yeah.

在最后阶段，我压力非常大，因为三明治店快关门时，我银行账户里只剩下大约2500美元。

There was a time at the end that I was stressing out very much because at the very end of the sandwich shop, I had around 2,500 left in the business bank account.

天哪。

Gosh.

而我当时欠了大约两万美元的债务。

And I'm I'm in, like, 20,000 US dollars debt.

你知道，还有许多账单要付，而我账户里的钱只剩下应付金额的十分之一。

You know, that there there are still bills to pay, and I have basically a tenth of what I have to pay left in my bank account.

那一定很艰难。

That must have been.

那很可怕吗？

Was that scary?

那非常可怕。

It was very dreadful.

当时，破产的念头非常真实，我确实想让三明治店成功，但它就是不行。

You know, the thought of going bankrupt was very vivid back then, and I gave up because I really want to make the sandwich shop work, but it just didn't.

然后我就意识到，我们真的必须做些不同的事了，因为这个概念、这个生意行不通。

And then that was the point when I say, okay, we really have to do something different because this concept, this business is not working.

你没有放弃，而是转型了。

You didn't give up, you pivoted.

是的，彻底地，真的彻底地转型了。

Yeah, big time, big time actually.

我们转向了小酒馆模式，因为一直以来我都喜欢葡萄酒。

We pivoted to a bistro concept because again, I've always loved wines.

你知道吗，我深深爱上了这种欧洲葡萄酒吧的文化。

You know, I'm in love with this European wine bar culture.

所以我就想，既然三明治店不成功，那接下来我该尝试做什么呢？

So that was like, okay, if the sandwich shop is not working now, what should be the next thing that I want to try to do?

于是我试了试，结果非常、非常好。

So I give that a try, it works very, very well.

就在那之后，我开始接受侍酒师培训，现在我也全职担任侍酒师。

And then right after that, I was doing my sommelier training, and now I'm also working as a full time sommelier as well.

所以事情最终变得真的、真的很好。

So it's actually turned out really, really nice.

所以你现在有自己的生意，而且做得不错，同时还在餐饮行业继续深造。

So you have your own business that's doing well, and you are continuing your own education within the restaurant industry.

是的，很像朱迪，因为当我放弃工程工作时，我的简历上什么都没有。

Yeah, very much like Judy, because like when I quit engineering, you know, I have nothing on my CV.

我只有工程背景的简历，却想在餐饮界闯出名堂，人们看我时半信半疑，说：你懂什么餐饮，凭什么做这个？

I got an engineering CV and trying to make my name in the food world and people look at me, you know, with half an eye and say, what do you know about food to kind of do this?

所以，你知道，这对我来说是一种证明自己的方式，我会去做到的。

So, you know, that is kind of like one way for me to kind of prove myself that I will do it.

只要我全心投入，我就一定能做成。

And if I put my mind and my heart to it, then I will do it.

但你难道没有从你的出身中获得一些安慰和信心吗？

But did you not take some comfort and some confidence from your very heritage?

因为那可是你的家世，不是吗？

Because that is your pedigree, isn't it?

在食物方面，这非常有趣，因为你几乎是无可挑剔的。

In terms of food, it's very interesting because you're almost unassailable.

你来自越南背景，父母开过一家能容纳400人的餐厅。

You come from a Vietnamese background with parents who had a restaurant with 400 covers.

我的意思是，作为一个外行听你这么说，你简直就是越南美食的传奇。

I mean, you're like a Vietnamese food god in my eyes, just listening as a layperson.

你难道没有从这一点中获得安慰吗？

Did you not get comfort from that?

我这种人其实喜欢把自己逼出舒适区，因为不知为何，我一直与越南菜保持距离。

I'm a kind of guy who actually would like to put myself out of the comfort zone, because for some reason I've always distanced myself with Vietnamese cuisine.

当然，这是我的传承，我非常热爱越南菜。

Of course, it's my heritage and I absolutely love Vietnamese food.

如果我这么做，这无疑是一个非常强的卖点。

And I think it's always a very strong selling point if I do that.

因为另一点是，越南菜在芬兰其实非常受欢迎。

Because also one another thing is that Vietnamese food is actually a very popular cuisine in Finland.

就像英国的印度菜一样，这里有一个相当庞大的越南社群，很多人都在尝试做越南菜。

So as like, you know, Indian food in The UK, there are actually a lot of quite big Vietnamese community here and many, many people try to do Vietnamese food.

所以我一直在想，如果我不能为赫尔辛基带来一个足够有创意的越南菜概念，那我就不做了。

So I was just thinking to myself that if I cannot bring an interesting enough concept about Vietnamese food to Helsinki, then I would not do it.

我会挑战自己去做些不同的事，因为当你了解现代料理和高级餐饮界时，它实际上非常引人入胜。

I would challenge myself doing something different, because when you learn about modern cuisine and the fine dining world, it is actually very intriguing.

当你被迫去学习新事物时，会发现这非常有成就感。

When have to put yourself in learning something new, find that very rewarding.

杜克，你不觉得你的工程背景——我也拥有工程背景——在解决问题的思维方式上，以及在你开设餐厅等过程中，给予了你极大的帮助吗？

Duc, do you not find that your engineering background, because I have an engineering background also, helps you tremendously in the way of thinking of problem solving and coming through these challenges and the way that you've opened up your restaurants, etcetera.

我的意思是，你难道不觉得你一直在依赖你的工程问题解决技能吗？

I mean, do you not find that you're leaning on your engineering problem solving skills all the time?

因为我确实如此。

Because I do.

完全没错，真的非常依赖。

A 100%, actually, like a lot.

这不仅仅是关于解决问题，更重要的是，我一开始几乎一无所有。

And it's not just about problem solving, but also, I kind of start with nothing.

我真的只有大约5000欧元的积蓄。

I really have, you know, I think like €5,000 saved up.

5000欧元差不多就是5500美元左右。

So 5,000 is like 5,500 US dollars or something like that.

这是我多年做工程师攒下来的，钱并不多。

Saved up from all of my years of engineering, and it's not a lot.

所以我很高兴能仔细梳理所有的财务计划，我必须去和银行沟通，我认为我的工程学位和工程师背景在准备这些文件和计划方面帮助极大，让我能精准地拿到资金启动项目。

So I was happy to go through all the financial plans, I have to talk to the banks, and I think that my engineering degree and my background as an engineer helps a lot getting these kind of papers and this plan very on point to get the money to get it going.

如果有人正在听，想着也许该勇敢一搏，辞掉一切去开一家餐饮生意，你们各自会给他们什么建议呢，朱迪？

If someone is out there listening, thinking, I might just take the leap, give it all up to open a food business, what advice would you each give them, Judy?

我会说，去做吧，但要完全意识到，你将经历一生中最辛苦的工作。

I would say that do it, but be fully aware that you're going to work the hardest in your life that you ever have.

我完全同意杜克的观点，因为当你为自己工作时，电话永远不会关机。

And I I completely agree with Duke just because, you know, when you're working for yourself, the phone never turns off.

当你在大公司工作时，如果你休假，总会有人接手你的工作，但如果你是创业者，经营自己的生意，你就只能靠自己，正如人们所说，责任全在你身上，所以你要睁大眼睛，清楚地知道，这并不那么光鲜亮丽。

When you're working for these big companies, you know, if you take vacation, there's somebody picking up your work or whatever, you know, if you are your own entrepreneur and your own business, you are the only one, like the buck stops with you as they say, you know, so go in with your eyes wide wide open, you know, it is not super glamorous.

比如，我开第一家餐厅时，洗碗池坏了。

Like I, you know, I was literally my first restaurants, like the pot wash went down.

我亲自洗碗。

I was washing dishes.

你必须全身心投入，没有任何工作是低微或渺小到你不该做的。

Like you are in it, you know, in a massive way, and there is no job too low or too small for you to do.

你必须以身作则。

And you have to lead by example.

当我走过餐厅时，我会捡起地上的纸巾。

When I would walk through my dining room, I would pick up the stuff, the napkin on the floor.

我会拿一把螺丝刀，把桌子底下粘的口香糖刮掉。

I would get a screwdriver and scrape gum off the bottom of underneath the tables.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

就是说，你得什么都亲力亲为。

It's the like, you have to do everything.

然后我还有个毛病，就是特别注重细节。

And then I have this sickness where I'm so detail oriented.

我能注意到一切细节。

I see absolutely everything.

真的，什么都逃不过我的眼睛。

Like, everything.

比如，我能看出菜单上字体大小差了0.5。

Like, I see a 0.5 font difference on a menu.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我会觉得这个字体大小不对，得改。

I'm like this is the wrong font size like change.

我简直要把员工逼疯了。

It's I would drive my staff crazy.

但所有这些都在于细节，你要明白这其中需要多少坚韧。

But it's all in the detail and so do it understand there's so much grit involved.

但也要明白，你之前所有的经历——无论是转行还是教育背景——都会派上用场。

But also understand that every experience that you've had before, if you're a career changer or your education, you're going to be using it.

尼莎，对于打算全新开始从事餐饮业的人，你有什么建议？

Nisha, what advice would you give to someone thinking of just starting afresh in food?

我是在47岁的时候才萌生了创办餐饮生意的想法。

I came to the idea of starting a food business at the age of 47.

在那个年纪，这非常有意思。

And at that age, it's very interesting.

你有很好的视角，知道哪些仗该打。

You've got good perspective, you know which battles to fight.

因此，你对细节的关注被你的人生经历所软化和平衡。

So, your detail orientation is softened and moderated by the life that you've led.

我的观点是，如果你能看到市场中的空白，且你的热情与知识能独特地填补它，那你绝对应该去尝试。

My view is if you can see that there is a gap in the market and if your passion and your knowledge can uniquely fill it, then you absolutely should go for it.

但一定要确保第二根绳子足够牢固，能承受你所有经济责任的重量，再完全放手一搏。

But make sure that second rope is strong enough to take the weight of all your financial responsibilities before you fully swing to it.

所以，在经营餐厅的前四个月，我白天仍然继续当律师。

So, I carried on being a barrister in the daytime for the first four months of running my restaurant.

我会像朱迪说的那样，首先戴上安全帽和反光背心，亲自建造我的第一家餐厅，因为像杜克一样，像在座所有打算开餐厅的人一样——你们中最优秀的那些人，往往手头资金非常有限。

I would then go and as Judy said, you would put on, first of all, I put on a hard hat and high vis and I physically built my first restaurants because like Duke, like all of you out there who thinking of starting a restaurant or many of you, probably the best ones, you've got very little money to do it with.

我甚至在沙发缝里翻找硬币来筹建Mowgli。

I was looking for coins down the back of my sofa to build Mowgli.

但你要从最底层做起，亲手去建造它，但在确保第二根绳子足够牢固之前，绝不能放弃第一份工作、房贷和养家糊口的生计。

But you go and you start at the very bottom, you build it physically, but do not give in that first job and your mortgage payments and the way that you feed your family until you know that second rope is strong enough to swing to.

这个世界并不欠你一份生计。

The world does not owe you a living.

杜克的一个精彩故事是，第一次尝试可能不会成功。

And what's a great tale from Duke is the fact that it might not work the first time.

然后你再次尝试，最成功的创业者往往经历过五次、六次、七次失败的生意，但他们依然重新出发，因为这种创业的执着会始终伴随着你，最终终会成功。

And then you go again, the best entrepreneurs, the most successful ones have had five, six, seven failed businesses and gone again because that entrepreneurial disease will always adhere to you and it will come good.

但你不能仅仅因为在一条满是冰淇淋店的街上开一家冰淇淋店就贸然行动。

But you can't just open an ice cream shop on a street full of ice cream shops.

寻找空白点。

Look for a gap.

它必须契合你的热情与天赋，然后全力以赴，因为经济与世界需要你。

It's got to fit your passion and your talent and then go for it because the economy and the world needs you.

我们创造就业，我们创造社会资本。

We create jobs, we create social capital.

倾听你的梦想真的非常重要，要以一种审慎的方式认真思考，如果你能独特地填补那个空白，就去追求它。

It is really important that you listen to your dreams and, you know, really circumspect, in a circumspect way, think about it and go for it if you can uniquely fill that gap.

杜克，你的建议是什么？

Duc, what would your advice be?

我觉得尼莎刚才说得非常好。

I think Nisha just said it so well.

我认为这确实取决于你所处的人生阶段和时间点。

I think that it's very true that I think it depends on what time and what stage of life that you're in.

我比你们两位都年轻一些，所以在这方面我的风险承受能力更高。

I'm a bit younger than both, so I think my risk tolerance in that matter is a bit higher.

你必须考虑到整体情况。

You have to take the whole picture into account.

我辞去工作的一个最重要原因是，我知道自己没有任何负债。

One of the biggest reasons why I stopped my job was because I know that I have no liabilities.

我还年轻，还有父母可以依靠。

I'm still young, I still have my parents.

如果我失败了，我仍然可以东山再起。

If I fail, I can still make it back.

但如果我40岁，有两个孩子和一个家庭，我还会做同样的决定吗？

But would it be the same if I'm 40 years old with two kids and a family that I would make the same decision?

就像尼莎说的，你必须找到你的市场。

And then the like like Nisha said that you have to identify your market.

这极其重要。

That is extremely important.

你觉得有趣的东西是不够的。

What you think interesting is is not gonna be enough.

你必须真正找到一个市场，让你的产品能被人们真正需要。

You have to actually find trying to find a market that you can offer your product and people actually want it.

不是因为你觉得‘这个三明治很酷，我想做’。

Not because you think, Oh, this sandwich is cool and I want to do it.

那样是行不通的。

That is going to work.

但你真的得找到一种人们愿意购买的产品。

But you actually have to kind of find a product that people are actually willing to buy.

最后我想问你们所有人一个问题。

And just a final question to all of you.

你们都放弃了这一切。

You gave it all up.

后悔吗？

Any regrets?

值得吗？

Was it worth it?

对我而言，作为一名律师，我之前没有创造任何就业机会，也缴纳了很少的税。

For me, can I tell you as a barrister, I created no jobs and I paid very little tax?

现在我创造了上千个就业岗位。

I've now created a thousand jobs.

我们为本地慈善机构以及全球的慈善组织筹集了300万英镑。

We've raised £3,000,000 for local charities and charities across the world.

我交了很多税，对此我感到非常自豪。

And I pay a lot of tax and I'm very proud of that.

我绝不会为了任何东西而放弃它。

I would not give it up for the world.

对我来说，无论有起有落，它始终是无尽的恩赐与喜悦。

It has been for me with all of its ups and downs and unrelenting blessing and joy.

所以，不，我对此充满热情。

So no, I'm absolutely passionate about it.

300万英镑，相当于400万美元。

£3,000,000, that's 4,000,000 US dollars.

是的。

Yeah.

朱迪。

Judy.

我非常

I'm very

我很庆幸自己做出了职业转变。

glad that I made the career change.

我本可以继续在金融行业苦苦挣扎，那样我的金钱净资产可能会比现在高得多，但我在其他方面更富有，你知道的，我认为成功的衡量标准有很多种。

I could have kept slogging away in finance and I'd be much richer than I am today in terms of monetary net worth but, I'm richer in other ways, you know, and I think that there's many different ways to measure success.

我从小就怀有这份长久而渐弱的热情。

I have had this long dying passion, you know, since I was born.

比如，我出生的时候，没人知道韩国在哪里。

Like, when I was born, nobody knew where Korea was.

没人对韩国有任何了解。

Nobody knew anything about Korea.

而且，我从小并不以自己的文化为荣。

And, you know, I I didn't grow up proud of my culture.

因此，我立下了一个明确的目标：将韩国风味推向世界，向人们普及它，并高举这面韩国旗帜。

And so I very much had this goal of taking Korean flavors to the world and educating people about it and waving this this Korean flag.

我从未想过，有朝一日我能在麦迪逊广场花园、大都会球场、棒球场，甚至托特纳姆热刺球场提供韩国料理。

And I never thought in a million years I'd be able to serve Korean food at Madison Square Garden, you know, at Citi Field, you know, baseball arenas, at Tottenham Hotspur.

没有什么比体育场更大众化、更主流了，比如棒球——美国的国球，还有英超足球。

There's nothing more mass market and mainstream than arenas, you know, like baseball, America's past time, you know, like Premier League football.

我们能在这些场馆提供韩国料理，这简直令人难以置信。

The fact that we're able to serve Korean food in these venues is mind boggling.

令人难以置信的是，我小时候甚至因为带饭而感到羞愧。

Mind boggling where, you know, I was embarrassed to pack my lunch when I was growing up.

我不希望别人闻到泡菜的味道，或者闻到我文化的气息。

You know, I didn't want people to smell the kimchi or to smell the flavors of my culture.

而现在，我能在世界上一些最大的体育场提供这些食物，这真是让我恍如梦中，你知道吗？

And now I'm able to serve this in some of the biggest arenas of the world is a real pinch me moment, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

杜克。

Duc.

对。

Yeah.

我真的很钦佩朱迪刚才说的话。

And I just I have a big admiration for what Judy just said.

我认为我正在朝着这个目标努力，希望有一天我也能像你一样。

I think that I'm working towards that goal and I hope one day I can do what you do.

这真的非常鼓舞人心。

So it's very inspiring.

说实话，我有时会质疑自己，因为这实在太难了，压力巨大，工作时间又长。

Sometimes I do question myself to be honest, because it's very very hard, the amount of stress and the amount of long hours.

而且就像朱迪说的，我现在赚的钱实际上比以前少多了。

And also like Judy said, that you know, I actually got much less money now than before.

在芬兰，人们非常重视工作与生活的平衡，这是芬兰的一大特点。

And in Finland, they very cherish, you know, this kind of work life balance, a big thing in Finland.

但当你经营一家企业时，你绝对会完全放弃这一点。

But when you're owning a business, you're absolutely going to give this up like 100%.

这根本不存在任何疑问。

There's no even question about it.

但我最珍视、也最引以为豪的是，我现在能够组建一个非常优秀的团队。

But what I cherish the most and what I really am really proud of is that now I get to build a very good team.

我身边有一群真正优秀的人和我一起工作。

I have really, really good people working with me.

我不太喜欢为自己这么说，但和我一起。

I I don't like to say it for me, but with me.

因此，我在工程领域之外建立的联系，以及所有的经验，对我而言最为宝贵。

So it's the connection that I've built outside of the engineering world that have been the most valuable to me, and also all of the experience.

是的，绝对没有后悔。

Yeah, absolutely no regret.

现在生意怎么样？

How is business now?

我们实际上做得非常好。

We're actually doing very, very good.

你们盈利吗？

Are you profitable?

是的。

Yes.

是的，我可以。

Yes, I can.

现在我可以非常有信心地说，是的，我们已经盈利了。

Now is the point where I can very confidently say that yes, we are profitable.

你现在能处理仍然存在的债务吗？

That you can tackle the debt now that you still have?

是的。

Yeah.

我们已经成功还清了所有债务。

We have managed to go through all of the debt we had.

我们没有违约任何债务。

We didn't default any debts.

这花了很多时间。

It took a lot of time.

我为此已经工作了数月且未领取报酬。

I And have been working many months unpaid to get to this point.

但幸运的是，我们现在财务状况良好。

But fortunately now we are financially in a good spot.

听到这个我真的很高兴。

I'm really pleased to hear that.

你妈妈最初非常震惊。

And your mum was horrified initially.

她现在对你所做的事情有什么看法？

How does she feel about what you're doing now?

她为你感到非常骄傲。

She's quite proud of you.

实际上，她一个月前刚来看过我。

Actually, she just visited me one month ago.

所以她和我哥哥一起来了芬兰，现在我认为她非常开心，也非常支持我。

So she came to Finland with my brother, and now I think she's very happy and she's very supportive.

所以在这方面，我感到如释重负。

So it was a big relief for me on that part.

你得到了母亲的祝福。

You have your mother's blessing.

是的。

Yes.

还有我们的。

And ours.

对。

Yes.

杜克，我再补充一点。

And Duc, I'm going to add one more thing.

妮莎，我替你说一句，你现在生命中多了两位导师。

And, Nisha, I'm going to speak for you, but you now have two new mentors in your life.

所以我们是你的大姐。

So we are your big sisters.

如果你有任何问题或需要建议，韩语中有一个词，意思是年长的姐姐。

If you have any questions or need advice, there is a word in Korean called which just means like old older sisters.

所以如果你需要，随时联系我。

So please reach out to us if you if you need to.

哇。

Wow.

太棒了。

Amazing.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

这对我来说比任何事情都更有意义。

That that's gonna mean more to me than anything.

我觉得找到优秀的导师，一直是我最喜爱的部分之一。

I think that finding great mentors is always one of the biggest part I love.

所以非常感谢你们两位，Judy和Nisha。

So thank you so much for taking this Judy and Nisha.