我们所有人都应该采用地中海饮食方式吗？

这个BBC播客由英国境外的广告支持。

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最佳食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《Good Food》播客的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food podcast.

每周，我都会与顶尖厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革前沿的人士坐下来交谈，他们才是真正让美食变得精彩的人。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat, all the people who really make food great.

如果你热爱一顿美味的餐食和一场精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food》播客，每周二更新新鲜内容。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for the Good Food Podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

到时候见。

See you there.

现在可在BBC世界服务的纪录片中收听。

Available now on the documentary from the BBC World Service.

来自叙利亚、埃及和也门的年轻人正在乌克兰前线战斗并牺牲。

Young men from Syria, Egypt, and Yemen are fighting and dying on the front line in Ukraine.

他们为何要冒着生命危险，参与一场与自己无关的战争？

Why are they risking their lives in a war that's not their own?

我们调查了一名被指控欺骗男性为其国家军队作战的俄罗斯女商人。

We investigate a Russian businesswoman accused of tricking men into fighting for her country's army.

现在就搜索您收听BBC播客的平台，收听这部纪录片。

Listen now by searching for the documentary wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

好的。

Alright.

该准备番茄和罗勒了。

Time for by the tomatoes and some basil.

哦，这香味真好。

Oh, this smells so good.

看起来也很棒。

It looks good too.

我几乎要以为自己正在南欧度假了。

I could almost believe I'm on holiday in Southern Europe.

但不，我确实在英格兰一个寒冷潮湿的日子里，待在我那通风的厨房里。

But no, I'm definitely in my drafty kitchen on a cold wet day in England.

但即便如此，这顿简单的家常饭——我待会儿要加的番茄酱配白芸豆，再配上一些意大利面——真的很棒。

But still, this simple home cooked meal, the tomato sauce with cannellini beans I'm going to add later, have it with some spaghetti.

这是我对地中海式饮食的理解。

This is my take on Mediterranean style eating.

这引起了很多人关注。

It gets a lot of attention.

你知道，我们通常听到很多关于饮食及其营养价值的信息，但有一种饮食方式被研究得最多，并且已被证实具有健康益处。

You know, we hear a lot of information generally about what we eat and its nutritional value, but there's one diet that has been studied more than any other and has proven health benefits.

它在这里的节目《食品链》中反复出现，我是BBC世界服务节目《食品链》的主持人露丝·亚历山大。

It comes up time and time again here on this programme, the Food Chain from the BBC World Service with me, Ruth Alexander.

所以今天，我们将更深入地探讨地中海饮食：它是什么，有哪些健康效益的证据，它为何如此流行，以及是否……

And so today, we're going to be taking a closer look at the Mediterranean diet, what it is, what the evidence is for its health effects, how it got so popular, and whether.

如果你住得离地中海很远，你也可以借鉴这些原则，根据你所在地可获得的食材进行调整，帮助你活得更长久、更健康。

If live you a long way from the Mediterranean, you can't take the principles and apply them to the ingredients available where you are to help you live a long and healthy life.

女士，您在做什么菜呢？

Ma'am, what are you cooking?

索夫里托。

Sofrito.

索夫里托是地中海饮食中一种传统酱料，由橄榄油、番茄酱、大量香料以及大蒜和少量洋葱制成。

Sofrito is a traditional sauce from the Mediterranean diet with olive oil, tomato sauce, a lot of spices, as well as garlic and a little bit of onion.

这是玛尔塔·瓜斯法雷在西班牙巴塞罗那她母亲的地中海风格厨房里。

This is Marta Guasfare in her mom's Mediterranean kitchen in Barcelona, Spain.

它非常美味，我们常用来搭配鱼类、意大利面或其他菜肴。

And it's very tasty, and we use it to go with fish or with pasta and with other dishes.

玛尔塔是回家过节的。

Marta was home for the holidays.

她通常在丹麦哥本哈根大学工作，担任副教授兼营养研究员，她的研究灵感源于童年经历。

She's usually at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, where she's an associate professor and a nutrition researcher inspired by her childhood.

我记得我的祖父母会种植橄榄树、杏仁树和榛子树，所以我们总是能吃到高品质的橄榄油，而且我们用它来做一切料理。

I remember my grandparents would grow olive trees and almonds and hazelnut trees And then we would always have really good quality olive oil, and we would use it for everything.

我还清楚地记得，晚饭后我们会吃烤过的榛子和杏仁，全家人一起剥开杏仁和榛子，边吃边聊。

And then another thing that I vividly remember is after dinner, we would have hazelnuts and almonds that were roasted in the oven and eat it as a family cracking the almonds and the hazelnuts.

如今，地中海饮食是玛尔塔的专业研究重点。

And today the Mediterranean diet is Marta's professional focus.

当然，不同国家之间存在一些差异，但地中海饮食的定义主要是以植物性食物为主，包括水果、蔬菜、面包和其他谷物，以及最少加工的豆类，如豆类，这占了很大比重，还有坚果和种子。

There's actually some differences across countries, of course, but the definition of Mediterranean diet is that it's mainly characterised by high intake of plant foods that includes fruits, vegetables, also breads and other cereals, but minimally processed beans, like legumes, is a huge part of it nuts and seeds.

而地中海饮食与其他植物性饮食的一个区别可能是橄榄油。

And then one difference of the Mediterranean diet from other plant based diets could be olive oil.

橄榄油是这种饮食中主要的脂肪来源，用于烘焙、烹饪、多种用途，以及淋在沙拉和蔬菜上。

So olive oil is one of the main sources of fat of the diet that it's used for baking, for cooking, for many different things, for dressing salads and vegetables.

此外，还包括适量摄入乳制品，如奶酪和酸奶，以及一些鸡蛋和低脂蛋白质。

And then, of course, there's a moderate intake of dairy products like cheese and yogurt, some eggs and low fat proteins.

但我觉得，正如我提到的，重要的是也要考虑用你田地里现有的食材、根据一年中不同季节的时令食材来准备食物，与家人朋友一起用餐，并认真对待饮食。

But I think it's also important, as I mentioned, that it's also about thinking of preparing the foods with what you have on your field, what's seasonable in each time of the year, eating together with your family, your friends, taking food seriously.

玛尔塔·加瓦什帕雷：地中海饮食在世界许多地方都很有名，但情况并非一直如此。

Marta Gawashpare The Mediterranean diet is known in many parts of the world, but it wasn't always this way.

那么，是谁最先将这种饮食方式推到聚光灯下的呢？

So who first put a spotlight on this way of eating?

那是20世纪50年代，科学家们刚开始探讨饮食是否会影响心脏健康。

It was back in the 1950s when scientists were only just beginning to ask whether diet might influence heart health.

其中一位是安塞尔·凯斯，一位美国科学家，他研究了南欧人的饮食模式，并为此撰写了食谱书籍。

One of those was Ansel Keyes, an American who studied the dietary patterns of people in Southern Europe and then wrote cookbooks about it.

让我转向食谱部分。

Let me turn to the recipe section.

哦，看看这个。

Oh, look at this.

虾披萨。

Shrimp pizza.

我们再看看，面食和谷物，比如玉米粥。

And let's see, pastas and grains, polenta.

这是俄克拉荷马大学的医学史学家莎拉·特雷西教授。

This is professor Sarah Tracy, a historian of medicine at the University of Oklahoma in The US.

让我来看看这个。

Let me turn to that.

是的。

Yeah.

他提倡食用豆类、豌豆、扁豆和大量绿叶蔬菜。

He's advocating legumes, peas, beans, and lentils, and lots of green leafy vegetables.

她

She's

她正在为安塞尔·基斯撰写传记，他的食谱书是她的资料来源之一。

writing a biography of Ancel Keys, and his cookbooks are among her sources.

他是一位科学家。

He was a scientist.

我认为他是对当今我们的饮食方式影响最大的生物医学科学家。

I think the most important biomedical scientist when it comes to shaping the way we eat today.

他接受过生物海洋学家的训练。

He was trained as a biological oceanographer.

战争期间，他转向运动生理学和营养生理学，当时他制定了K口粮，并开展了明尼苏达饥饿实验，其目的是更好地帮助二战中饥饿的平民和难民恢复饮食。

He moved on to exercise physiology, nutritional physiology during the war when he formulated the K ration and did his Minnesota starvation experiment, the purpose of which was to better refeed starving people and refugees from World War two.

K口粮？

The k ration?

K口粮是什么？

What's the k rations?

K口粮是为随身行动的士兵开发的第一种轻便、高热量、紧凑型口粮。

The k ration is the first lightweight, calorie dense, compact ration developed for soldiers on the go.

真是段精彩的历史。

What a backstory.

是什么让安塞尔对地中海地区人们的饮食产生了兴趣？

What got Ansel interested in what people were eating in the Mediterranean?

他听说意大利那不勒斯地区没有人患心脏病。

He had heard that there was no heart disease in Naples, Italy.

在美国，似乎出现了心脏病的流行趋势。

And it seemed as if there were a heart disease epidemic in The United States.

1952年，他有机会前往那不勒斯。

And he went to Naples when he had the opportunity in 1952.

他发现这一说法确实成立，但仅适用于那不勒斯的工人阶级。

And he found that that was correct, but it was only correct for the working classes in Naples.

至于上层阶级，他发现实际上也有不少人患有心脏病。

When it came to, the upper classes, he found that there actually were people with heart disease.

最大的差异在于饱和脂肪的摄入量，以及上层阶级相比工人阶级所消费的肉类和乳制品数量。

And the big difference was in saturated fat and the amount of meat and dairy that upper classes consumed relative to working classes.

因此，他开始开展营养生理学实验，研究膳食脂肪对心脏病和胆固醇水平的影响。

And so, he began to conduct nutritional physiology experiments looking at the effects of dietary fat on heart disease and cholesterol levels.

在其他地方重复进行的这些研究，使安塞尔·凯斯提出假设：动物脂肪的摄入与心脏病相关。

These studies repeated elsewhere led Ancel Keys to hypothesize that animal fat consumption was correlated with heart disease.

1958年，他启动了一项大型研究项目——七国研究。

And in 1958, he launched a major research project, the Seven Countries Study.

这七个国 家是日本、美国、荷兰、希腊、意大利、芬兰和南斯拉夫。

The seven countries were Japan, The United States, The Netherlands, Greece, Italy, Finland, and Yugoslavia.

共有13000人的血液胆固醇水平以及他们的饮食各成分被测量。

And there were a total of 13,000 people whose blood cholesterol levels were measured as well as the different components of their diet.

通过这项研究，他得出结论：饮食模式至关重要，而乳制品和红肉中的饱和脂肪会导致更多心脏病。

And from this study, he determined that dietary pattern mattered and that saturated fat found in dairy and red meat led to more heart disease.

他的发现在美国受到了怎样的对待？他不是正试图改善美国的心脏健康吗？

How were his findings received in The US, where he was trying to improve heart health, wasn't he?

是的，当时有很多怀疑声音。

Yeah, there was a lot of skepticism.

在20世纪50年代和60年代，我们是一个以肉类和土豆为主的国家。

In the 1950s and 60s, we were a meat and potatoes nation.

要让人们接受以蔬菜、水果和全谷物为主的饮食，真的非常困难。

And it was really hard work to convince people that they should adopt a largely vegetable centric, fruit centric, whole grain, centric.

你知道吗，那时候Wonder Bread正开始流行。

You know, we're thinking think about Wonder Bread taking off.

那在当时非常流行

That was big in

在美国。

The United States.

这是一种白色的切片

That's a white sliced

这是一种工业化生产的、高度加工的面包。

It's a manufactured sliced, highly processed bread.

它属于超加工食品。

It would qualify as an ultra processed foods.

因此，要说服人们放弃他们的肉和土豆饮食，以及所有的波士顿奶油派等等，并不容易。

And so it it was not easy to convince people that they should give up their meat and potatoes diet and all of their, you know, Boston cream pies and so forth.

是阿内尔·凯斯首次提出了地中海饮食这个术语，并引发了人们的讨论。

So it was Ancel Keys who first coined the term the Mediterranean diet and got people talking about it.

但这个标签是否准确反映了他 findings？

But was that label a fair reflection of his findings?

萨拉说，他的研究实际上表明，这个故事的范围远不止地中海地区。

Sarah says his research actually showed the story was broader than the Mediterranean alone.

你也可以看到，他在日本的样本中，冠心病的发病率非常低。

You could also see that his sample in Japan had very low rates of coronary heart disease.

他本也可以将整个亚洲的全食物饮食视为非常健康，并在他的食谱书中大力推广。

And he might have held up the whole foods Asian diet as very healthy too and championed that in his cookbooks.

但他实际上在他的第一本食谱书中提到了这一点。

But he actually addresses this in his first cookbook.

对他来说，说服美国人采用意大利或西班牙的饮食，比采用亚洲饮食要合理得多。

It made much more sense to him to convince Americans to eat, an Italian, Spanish diet than an Asian diet.

我认为在1959年，这确实是事实。

And I think in 1959, that was probably true.

那时，你的家乡更可能有一家意大利餐厅，而不是日本餐厅。

It was likelier that you would have an Italian restaurant in your hometown than a Japanese restaurant.

当然，地中海地区还包括中东国家和北非国家。

There were, of course, Middle Eastern countries that are in the Mediterranean, and there were North African countries in the Mediterranean.

他意识到了这一点，但我认为他更自然地倾向于欧洲国家，因为二战期间有更多美国士兵驻扎在欧洲地区，而不是太平洋战场。

And he was aware of that, but I think he had more of a natural affinity to the European countries since there had been so many more soldiers, American soldiers in World War two stationed in European locations versus the Pacific theater.

我认为他选择地中海饮食，是因为他认为美国大多数家庭对欧洲食物更有亲切感。

I think that, he chose the Mediterranean because he thought that there would be more

美国大多数家庭对欧洲食物更有亲切感。

of an affinity within most American households with the foods of Europe.

因此，地中海饮食的推广以及它此后引发的大量研究，你认为这真的源于一种西方偏见吗？

So the promotion of the Mediterranean diet and all the research it's since attracted, do you think I mean, really it came about from an element of Western bias?

我的意思是，如你所说，本可以推广亚洲饮食。

I mean, as you said, it could have been an Asian diet.

本可以推广中东饮食，但没有，推广的是西欧饮食。

It could have been a Middle Eastern diet that was promoted, but no, it was a Western European Yeah.

那里确实存在欧洲中心主义的偏见。

There's no question that there's Eurocentric bias there.

莎拉·特雷西教授。

Professor Sarah Tracy.

安塞尔·奎则表明，心脏病并非衰老的必然部分，饮食可以保护你免受其害。

What Ansel Quay showed then was that heart disease wasn't an inevitable part of ageing and that diet could protect you against it.

在20世纪70年代初，他的研究成果被应用于一项公共健康实验，这项实验后来获得了国际关注。

In the early 70s, his work was put into practice in a public health experiment that would go on to gain international attention.

芬兰当时面临着一个严重的问题。

Finland had this huge problem.

年轻男性纷纷因心脏病发作而去世。

Young men were just dying of heart attacks.

这是芬兰卫生中心前总干事佩卡·普什卡教授，他1972年时还是一名年轻医生，后来成为该国东部北卡累利阿项目的负责人，该项目被认为彻底改变了整个国家的预期寿命。

This is Professor Pekka Pushka, the former Director General of the Finnish Centre for Health, who was a young medical doctor in 1972, became the director of the North Karelia project in the east of the country, which is credited with transforming the life expectancy of the whole nation.

我记得有一位来自美国的国际记者飞来这里，说这太疯狂了。

I remember one international reporter from USA came flying there and said, it's so mad.

我问他什么是疯狂的。

I asked what's mad.

他说，从飞机的舷窗望下去，我看到下面这片天堂，却有着全球最高的心脏病死亡率。

He said from the plain window that this paradise that I can see below me had the highest mortality rate of heart attack.

乍一看，这是一个悖论：他们都是勤劳的农民和伐木工。

At first look, it is a kind of paradox that they were hardworking farmers, lumberjacks.

他们很少肥胖，因为他们消耗了巨大的热量。

There was very little obesity because they used enormous amount of calories.

当我们观察当地人群时，我们发现他们的血液胆固醇水平极高，创下了世界纪录。

And when we looked at our population there, we realized that the blood cholesterol levels were extremely high, world record high.

他们的血压也很高。

Blood pressures were high.

他们习惯食用肥肉、奶油和黄油。

They were used to fatty meat, cream, butter.

当地饮食中有很多面包，这是好的，优质的干面包，但他们会在每一片面包上涂抹大量的黄油和盐。

Local diet had a lot of bread, which is good, good dry bread, but they put enormous amount of butter on each slice of bread and a lot of salt.

男性在二战期间学会了吸烟。

And men has learned to smoking during the World War.

所以我们说，好吧。

So we said, okay.

我们必须做点什么。

We have to do something.

让我们尝试降低人群中的风险因素水平。

Let's try to reduce the risk factor levels in the population.

那么你们是怎么做的呢？

So how did you try to do that?

嗯，我们意识到我们的任务是改变饮食。

Well, we realized our task is to change the diet.

因此，Answers Kids的工作对我们来说至关重要。

And so that is why the work of Answers Kids was extremely important for us.

我们在社区里进行了长达二十五年的大量工作。

We did enormous amount of work in the community for for twenty five years.

我们走遍各地，与人们见面，与医疗服务合作，与人们购买食品的杂货店合作，与学校合作，当然也与当地媒体合作。

We went around, met people, we worked with health services, we worked with groceries where people buy food, we worked with schools, we, of course, worked with local media.

因此，我们在民众中开展了大量的实际工作。

So it was enormous amount of practical work among the people.

你们尝试过推广地中海饮食吗？

Did you try to introduce the Mediterranean diet?

所以我们遵循了这些原则，但食品当然必须根据芬兰文化进行调整。

So, we followed the principles, but the foodstuffs, of course, have to be tailor made to the Finnish culture.

因此，根据安塞尔·基斯的建议，我们减少了饱和脂肪，用植物油替代，并鼓励人们大幅增加蔬菜、水果和浆果的摄入量。

So, following the advice of Ansel Kiese, reduced the saturated fat, substituted that with vegetable oil, and I had people to very much increase consumption of vegetables, fruit, and berries.

当时遇到了很多阻力。

And there was a lot of resistance.

有个笑话，北卡累利阿的男性说，蔬菜只适合兔子吃，不适合真正的男人。

It's a joke that the North Karelian men say that vegetables are only for rabbits, not for real men.

所以特别是家庭主妇们站在我们这边，因为她们看到年轻的丈夫们接连早逝，她们非常聪明、有创意。

So particularly housewives were our side because they saw young men young husband just dying, and they were very clever, ingenious.

有些故事甚至说，她们偷偷这么做，因为男人说他们想要全脂牛奶，于是她们把牛奶倒进罐子里，悄悄掺入脱脂牛奶，而丈夫根本不知道。

Some of the stories were even that they did it secretly because men said, I want to have fatty full fatty milk and they pour the milk to the can and started to mix it with the nonfat milk even without the husband knowing.

除了吸烟率的下降，普什卡教授表示，北卡累利阿项目的饮食干预对公共健康产生了重大影响。

Along with a reduction in the rates of smoking, Professor Pushka says the North Karelia project's dietary interventions had a significant impact on public health.

经过三四十年后，北卡累利阿地区工作年龄人群的冠心病年发病率比项目开始时降低了约85%。

After some thirty, forty years, the annual rate of coronary heart disease rates among working age population in North Karelia was about eighty five percent less than when we started.

并且，这种下降趋势逐渐扩展到了全国范围。

And gradually, the reduction also moved to whole country.

我必须说，当我们这些年轻激进的医生刚开始这个项目时，我们确实相信自己能取得成果。

And I must say that when we, as young radical doctors, started the project, we were quite believed that we can achieve results.

但我从未想过，几十年后，这种慢性病流行趋势竟能如此迅速地发生转变。

But I could never ever have believed that after a few decades, this kind of chronic disease epidemic can change so rapidly.

佩卡·普什卡教授。

Professor Pekka Pushkar.

您正在收听BBC世界服务频道的《食物链》。

You're listening to the Food Chain from the BBC World Service.

我是露丝·亚历山大，本周我们将探讨地中海饮食。

I'm Ruth Alexander, and this week we're looking at the Mediterranean diet.

这是全球研究最广泛的饮食之一，大量研究证明，这些食物的组合具有多种健康功效：维生素、多酚、生物活性物质和健康脂肪。

It's been one of the most researched diets around the world and there has been extensive research that has shown that the combination of all these foods have a lot of health properties: vitamins, polyphenols, bioactive compounds, healthy fats.

所有这些食物的组合对我们的健康非常有益。

All this combination of foods can be very good for our health.

丹麦哥本哈根大学的西班牙营养学家玛尔塔·瓜斯法雷是众多研究地中海饮食为何如此有益的人之一。

Marta Guasfare, a Spanish nutritionist at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, is one of the many people who's been examining why the Mediterranean diet is so good for you.

地中海饮食与降低心脏病、心血管疾病、糖尿病、肥胖的风险相关，最近还被发现有助于改善认知功能和健康衰老。

It's been associated with lower risk of heart diseases, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, obesity, and more recently also improving cognitive function or healthy ageing.

已有大量研究，包括我有幸参与论文的PREDIMED研究，这是关于地中海饮食最有力的证据之一。

So there has been a lot of research, including the Predimed study, which I had the honor to do the thesis with, and it's one of the most strong evidence from the Mediterranean diet.

这项研究于2010年左右在西班牙启动，随机选取了来自西班牙各地的7400多人。

It started in Spain around 2010, and it randomized more than 7,400 people from different places in Spain.

这是一项规模非常大的研究。

It's a very large study.

在对这些人群进行了五年的跟踪后，结果发表在一份最负盛名的临床期刊上，显示坚持地中海饮食的人群心血管疾病风险降低了百分之三十，这非常令人印象深刻。

And what was seen after all these five years of following these people and that was published in one of the most prestigious clinical journals was that the people who were adhering to this Mediterranean diet had thirty percent reduction in cardiovascular disease, which is quite impressive.

因此，我认为这是地中海饮食最有力的证据之一。

So I think this is one of the stronger evidence for the Mediterranean diet.

但当然，还有很多其他较小的试验以及一些观察性研究也证实了这些发现。

But there have been, of course, a lot of other smaller trials and also some observational studies that have also confirmed these findings.

为什么橄榄油被认为是一个如此重要的组成部分？

Why is olive oil said to be such an important component?

橄榄油的好处在于它含有大量的单不饱和脂肪酸和多不饱和脂肪酸，但不仅如此，它还富含多种维生素和多酚，尤其是特级初榨品种。

The good thing of olive oil is that it has a lot of monounsaturated fatty acids and polyinsaturated fatty acids, but not just that, it also contains a lot of vitamins, polyphenols, especially when it's the birgine varieties.

如果你仔细想想，它就像是橄榄经过机械压榨后得到的纯品。

If you think about it, it's just like olives, pressed, mechanically pressed, when it's pure.

研究表明，它具有抗炎和抗氧化的特性。

It has been shown to have anti inflammatory and antioxidant properties.

你现在在丹麦，你看到那里的人们遵循地中海饮食吗？

Now you're in Denmark, do you see people following the Mediterranean diet there?

在丹麦，他们有另一种称为北欧饮食的概念，这也是一种以植物为基础的饮食，包括富含脂肪的鱼类，比如三文鱼，同样与健康益处相关。

In Denmark, they have this other concept of the Nordic diet that is also a plant based diet that includes fatty fish, for example, like salmon that has also been associated with health benefits.

所以我认为，世界上每个地方都不必非得遵循地中海饮食。

So I don't think everywhere in the world needs to follow the Mediterranean diet.

我认为这是一种健康的饮食模式，但也需要符合你的文化传统、生活习惯和饮食方式。

I think it's a healthy dietary pattern, but it needs to make sense as well for your cultural heritage, your habits and the way that you eat.

现在让我们认识一位在新加坡工作的医生，他一直在努力将地中海饮食融入完全不同的饮食文化中。

Let's now meet a doctor in Singapore who has been working on translating the Mediterranean diet into completely different food cultures.

我是黄志坚，是一名预防心脏病专家，因为相关证据非常充分。

So I am Huang Zhijian and I am a preventive cardiologist because, there is such strong evidence for it.

我希望我的患者能够从中受益。

I wanted my patients to be able to benefit from it.

然而，这是一种典型的西方饮食，许多亚洲人可能难以全面接受。

However, it is like a really Western diet that a lot of Asians may find difficult to accept whole scale.

因此，我查阅了相关数据，看看是否已有针对亚洲人的适应性调整。

So that is why I looked into the data on whether there have been any Asian adaptations.

在亚洲人群中应用地中海饮食原则的数据如何？

What is the data for applying Mediterranean diet principles in Asians?

那你发现了什么？

And what did you find?

因此，有数据显示，人们遵循这种饮食模式后状况更好。

So there is data to support, you know, that people do better.

当你遵循同样的原则，但以亚洲方式执行时，中风和心脏病发作的发病率会更低。

They have lower stroke rates, lower heart attack rates when you follow the same principles, but in an Asian way.

那么，您推荐哪些亚洲版的地中海饮食调整呢？

So what kind of Asian adaptations to the med Mediterranean diet are you recommending?

举个例子，每天摄入300到400克蔬菜是地中海饮食的一个原则。

So just to give an example of the principle of taking like 300 to 400 grams of vegetables per day, so that is one of the principles of the MET diet.

为此，我们可以选择十字花科蔬菜，比如小白菜、花椰菜、卷心菜和萝卜。

So for that, we could choose cruciferous vegetables and then examples would be like bok choy, cauliflower, cabbage and turnip.

这些都是一些亚洲研究中提到的十字花科蔬菜，比如上海女性研究、男性健康研究等。

So these are all examples of cruciferous vegetables that are listed in some of the China studies like the Shanghai Women's Study, Men's Health Studies for example.

这些研究实际上表明，大量摄入这些十字花科蔬菜与心脏病和中风风险显著降低相关。

So these studies actually showed a high intake of these cruciferous vegetables was associated with significantly reduced risk of heart attacks and strokes.

此外，当然还有绿叶蔬菜，比如菠菜、红薯叶、萝卜和芥菜。

And then, of course, there are also leafy green vegetables like spinach, sweet potato leaves, radish, mustard greens.

这些也是来自一些亚洲研究的例子。

Those are also examples from some of the Asian studies.

它们还具有类似的心血管益处，比如苦瓜，这在亚洲比在西方国家更常食用。

They also have similar cardiovascular benefits associated like bitter gourd, which is, something that we will take more in Asia than in Western countries.

它的味道可能有点清淡。

It might be a bit of a quiet taste.

研究表明它具有心血管代谢益处。

It has been shown to have cardiometabolic benefits.

接下来谈谈坚果。

Then moving on to nuts.

在MET饮食中，强调的是树坚果，如核桃、杏仁和榛子。

So in the MET diet, tree nuts are emphasized like walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts.

在亚洲，我们也会吃这些坚果，但不如花生常见，花生便宜、营养丰富且广泛可得。

In Asia, we do eat these nuts too, but not as commonly as the peanut, a nut that is cheap, nutritious and widely available.

如果你查看中国和日本等国的研究，会发现花生摄入量越高，中风和心脏病发作的发病率就越低。

If you look at the studies in countries like China and Japan, they found the higher the levels of consumption of peanut, the lower the stroke and heart attack rates.

在亚洲，我们还喜欢食用许多其他坚果，比如腰果和开心果。

And then there are also many other nuts, that we like to take in Asia like cashew nuts, pistachios.

这些坚果也有良好的心代谢健康数据。

And these also have good cardiometabolic data as well.

那么，最具地中海特色的食材——橄榄油呢？

What about that most Mediterranean of ingredients, olive oil?

基本上，橄榄油可能是一种更昂贵的选择，但我们也可以考虑其他替代品，比如所有富含多不饱和脂肪酸和单不饱和脂肪酸的非热带植物油。

So basically, olive oil can be a more expensive option, but there are other options that we can look at as well like all the other non tropical oils that are rich in PUFA and MUFA.

PUFA是指多不饱和脂肪酸，而MUFA则是单不饱和脂肪酸。

PUFA means polyunsaturated fatty acids and then MUFA would be monounsaturated fatty acids.

其他富含PUFA和MUFA的油类例子包括葵花籽油，菜籽油在我们的商店里也很常见。

Some other examples of PUFA MUFA rich oils would be like sunflower oil, canola oil is also widely available in our shops.

玉米油、大豆油。

Corn oil, soybean oil.

基本上，除了热带油类，比如棕榈油和椰子油之外，所有这些其他油类都可以考虑。

Basically, all these other oils apart from, like, the tropical oils, like palm oil and coconut oil.

有必要引进地中海饮食及其原则吗？

Is it necessary to import the Mediterranean diet, to import these principles?

还是说，亚洲其实也有传统饮食，同样对心脏健康有保护作用？

Or or could it be that there are traditional diets in Asia which are just as protective for heart health?

也许这些饮食只是没有得到充分研究。

Perhaps they've just not been studied as much.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，我认为所有数据——无论是地中海饮食还是亚洲饮食的数据——都指向同一个方向。

So, actually, I think all of the data, the MET diet data and also the Asian diet data, it all points in the same way, actually.

所以，同样的食物都是有益的。

So the same things are good.

但目前关于亚洲饮食的数据，不如地中海饮食的数据那么充分。

But it is just that the data that exists for the Asian diets is not as robust as the data that exists for the Mediterranean diet.

因此，如果我们想为人们提出一种基于证据的饮食方式，我们应该选择最有科学依据的饮食，也就是地中海饮食。

So I think if we are going to try to propose an evidence based way for people to eat, We should go with the best proven diet, which will be the Mediterranean diet.

作为一名临床医生，当你与患者交谈时，他们对遵循某种形式的地中海饮食或地中海饮食原则有多接受？

As a clinician, when you talk to patients, how receptive are they to the idea of following some form of the Mediterranean diet or the Mediterranean diet principles?

好的。

Okay.

所以，当你仅仅向他们介绍地中海饮食时，有时会看到一些抵触情绪，因为有些人觉得这是一种完全西方化的饮食。

So when you just tell them about Mediterranean diet alone, you can see a bit of resistance sometimes because some feel like it's a totally westernized diet.

它让人联想到一些不符合他们口味的食物。

It conjures up images of food that, you know, is not to their taste.

你知道，有些人觉得这听起来很贵。

You know, some think it sounds expensive.

我想，食物是与文化相关的。

And I guess, like, food is about culture.

它关乎家庭、爱、熟悉感和慰藉。

It's about, you know, family, love, familiarity, comfort.

因此，向患者推荐一种陌生的、不熟悉的食物方式是没有用的。

So it's no use then recommending to a patient, you know, a foreign unfamiliar way of eating.

我试着做了一些调整，使其更符合他们的接受度。

I I did try to adapt it a bit so that it is more acceptable to them.

所以我实际上把地中海饮食的原则整理成了一份清单，我称之为‘新加坡地中海饮食’。

So I labelled actually the Mediterranean diet principles in a checklist that I called the Singapore Mediterranean diet.

我让他们每天尝试达成10分，以遵循MET饮食原则，并告诉他们：这是你们以亚洲方式实践的方法，目标是每天得10分。

So where they are asked to try and score 10 points every day to follow the MET diet principles, and you tell them, this is the way that you can do it in an Asian fashion, aim to score 10 points a day.

这非常具有亚洲特色。

So that is a very Asian thing.

我们喜欢在考试中拿高分，对吧？

We like to score high points on our tests and everything, right?

让它变得有竞争性。

Make it competitive.

没错。

Is right.

以目标为导向。

Goal orientated.

是的，这有时会引来一阵笑声，然后患者们会感兴趣地阅读，有时他们会回来告诉我说他们一直在尝试这样做。

Yes, it sometimes earns a chuckle and then the patients are interested to read through and then sometimes they do come back and say that they have been trying to do it.

黄志金，受地中海饮食启发并寻找一些用餐灵感，我们邀请了居住在世界各地的每位嘉宾分享他们最喜爱的菜肴。

Huang Zhi Jin, persuaded by the Mediterranean diet and looking for some mealtime inspiration, we have asked each of our guests based in different corners of the world for their favourite dishes.

我在想我妈妈做饭的样子。

I'm thinking of my mom cooking.

我不知道我最喜爱的是什么，但夏天我特别特别喜欢一种叫西班牙凉菜汤或萨尔莫内霍的冷汤。

And I think I don't know what would be my favourite, but something that I really, really enjoy in the summer is these cold soups called gazpacho or salmonejo.

我也超爱这个。

I love that too.

这种汤非常新鲜，主要由番茄、黄瓜、洋葱和辣椒制成。

Which are very fresh and they are made of mostly tomatoes, cucumber, onions, and peppers.

然后你把它们搅碎，上面淋一点橄榄油，撒点胡椒和盐，就完成了。

And then you blend it, you put some olive oil on top, some pepper, and some salt, and that's it.

我超爱海鲜蔬菜饭，它是以米饭为基础的。

I love paella that has seafood and vegetables but is rice based.

这是一道西班牙菜。

That's a Spanish dish.

是的。

Yes.

这是一道西班牙菜。

It's a Spanish dish.

我会吃一些水果当早餐。

I would have a breakfast with, fruits.

所以通常是一小把蓝莓、一个苹果，再加一小把坚果。

So maybe a handful of blueberries usually, an apple, and a handful of nuts.

午餐的话，我会吃两道蔬菜、少量米饭，通常是盘子的四分之一，再加一种植物蛋白，比如豆腐。

And then lunch, I would have, two veggie dishes, a small amount of rice, usually like quarter of the plate, and then a plant based protein like tofu.

那就是豆类。

So that's the legumes.

晚餐的话，也和午餐差不多，两份蔬菜，有时也会有植物蛋白。

And then for dinner, it would be something similar to lunch as well, two servings of veg and then sometimes a plant protein as well.

但有时也可能吃鱼或偶尔吃肉。

But it may also be fish or occasionally meat.

我在北卡累利阿有一座小屋。

I have a cottage in North Karelia.

每年夏天我都自己采摘很多浆果，比如越橘和蓝莓。

I pick myself every summer a lot of berries, lingonberry, bilberries.

每天早上我都吃一些谷物，配上这些浆果和脱脂牛奶。

Every morning I have some cereals with the berries and nonfat milk.

听起来真棒。

That sounds wonderful.

你自己采摘这些浆果，真好。

How nice that you've gathered them yourself as well.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这很健康，而且味道也很好。

It's healthy, but it's also it tastes good.

那就是我听说过的番茄酱。

That's that tomato sauce I hear about.

感谢芬兰的佩卡·普什卡尔教授、新加坡的黄金教授、美国的莎拉·特雷西教授，以及经由巴塞罗那的马托·格瓦什佩雷医生。

Thanks to Professor Pekka Pushkar in Finland, Professor Huangs Jin in Singapore, Professor Sarah Tracy in The US, and Doctor Matto Gwashpere in Copenhagen via Barcelona.

就是这个。

Here it is.

对。

Right.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

好吃。

Yum.

真好吃。

Yum.

真好吃。

Yum.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

我很高兴。

I'm pleased.

虽然没有阳光，也没有海景，但我想我们都同意，面前有一盘美味的意大利面。

Well, no sunshine, no sea view, but we do each have, I think we agree, a delicious plate of pasta in front of us.

我们也想听听你们对地中海饮食的改良做法。

We'd love to hear about your adaptations of the Mediterranean diet too.

请发送邮件至 thefoodchainbbc dot co dot uk。

Please do email thefoodchainbbc dot co dot uk.

来自我们三人以及整个团队的问候，制片人莱克西·奥康纳、伊齐·格林菲尔德和编辑莎拉·韦德森。

From us three here and the rest of the team, producers, Lexi O'Connor, Izzy Greenfield and editor Sarah Wadeson.

谢谢收听，下周再会。

Thanks for listening, and join us again next week.

别再说再见了。

Don't say bye.

再见。

Bye.

再见。

Bye.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最好的食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《好食物播客》的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food Podcast.

每周，我都会与顶尖厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革的人们坐下来交谈。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat.

所有真正让美食变得出色的人。

All the people who really make food great.

如果你热爱一顿美味的饭菜和一场精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food》播客，每周二更新新鲜内容。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for Good Food podcast on Spotify, serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

我们在那里见。

See you there.

现在可在BBC世界服务的纪录片中收听。

Available now on the documentary from the BBC World Service.

来自叙利亚、埃及和也门的年轻人正在乌克兰前线战斗并牺牲。

Young men from Syria, Egypt, and Yemen are fighting and dying on the front line in Ukraine.

他们为何要冒着生命危险，参与一场与自己无关的战争？

Why are they risking their lives in a war that's not their own?

我们调查了一名被指控欺骗男子为其国家军队作战的俄罗斯女商人。

We investigate Russian businesswoman accused of tricking men into fighting for her country's army.

请在您收听BBC播客的平台搜索该纪录片立即收听。

Listen now by searching for the documentary wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

对食物着迷吗？

Obsessed with food?

喜欢寻找最好的食谱吗？

Love finding the best recipes?

我是塞缪尔·戈德史密斯，美食作家、厨师，也是《Good Food》播客的主持人。

I'm Samuel Goldsmith, food writer, cook, and host of the Good Food Podcast.

每周，我都会与顶尖厨师、美食作家以及引领饮食变革的人士畅谈——那些真正让美食变得出色的人。

Every week, I sit down with top chefs, food writers, and people at the forefront of changing the way we eat, All the people who really make food great.

如果你热爱一顿美味的餐食和一场精彩的对话，请在Spotify上搜索《Good Food》播客。

If you love a good meal and a great conversation, search for the Good Food podcast on Spotify.

每周二更新新鲜内容。

Serving up fresh episodes every Tuesday.

到时候见。

See you there.

现在可在BBC世界服务的纪录片中收听。

Available now on the documentary from the BBC World Service.

来自叙利亚、埃及和也门的年轻人正在乌克兰前线战斗并牺牲。

Young men from Syria, Egypt, and Yemen are fighting and dying on the front line in Ukraine.

他们为何要为一场与自己无关的战争冒生命危险？

Why are they risking their lives in a war that's not their own?

我们调查了一名被指控欺骗男性为其国家军队作战的俄罗斯女商人。

We investigate Russian businesswoman accused of tricking men into fighting for her country's army.

请在您收听BBC播客的平台搜索该纪录片立即收听。

Listen now by searching for the documentary wherever you get your BBC podcasts.