如何在任何领域达到世界级水平？与乔迪·库克对话 | 第434期

今天我们要聊聊，怎样才能在某件事上做到世界级水平。

Today we're gonna talk about how you become world class at something.

说实话，做这方面的研究让我只想停下所有其他事情，只专注做其中一件，把它做到极致，因为我一直在研究那些对一件事极度痴迷的人，这种状态真的会传染。

And honestly in researching for this it just made me wanna stop doing every single thing that I do apart from one thing and be world class at it because I've been studying people who are obsessed with one thing and it's infectious.

这真的很棒。

It's really cool.

那什么叫世界级水平呢，乔迪？

So what does world class mean, Jodie?

琳达，你觉得什么是世界级水平？

So, Linda, how do you define world class?

我认识一个人，他不仅是最顶尖的那批人之一，还为其他人设定了标准。

I've got someone who's not only among the very best but they set the standard for others.

接下来，我们在这期节目中要讨论的世界级标准，包含五个关键点。

And then the definition of world class that we could follow in this episode has five main points.

首先是可衡量的主导性，也就是说，你的表现能被明确地和其他人量化对比。

And that's measurable dominance that it can be quantified against others.

比如世界纪录、冠军头衔、市场份额、产出量或者技能评分。

So like world records or championships or market share or output or skill ratings.

某种能证明你处于顶尖水平的东西。

Something that shows that you operate at the very top.

第二是长期的稳定性。

Two is consistency over time.

不是只有一两次巅峰表现，而是能一直保持下去。

So it's not just that you peak once, it's that you sustain it.

真正顶尖的人，是年复一年地持续出现。

So world class means you show up year after year.

不是那种昙花一现的闪光，然后就没了。

It's not just this flash of brilliance that then goes away.

第三，与同行拉开明显差距。

Separation from peers, number three.

当你看一个人做事时，那种差距一眼就能看出来。

So the idea that if you watch someone doing their thing, the gap is obvious.

他们有一种速度、品质或洞察力，让其他顶尖高手看起来都平平无奇。

They've got some kind of speed or some kind of quality or some kind of insight that makes even other high performers look ordinary.

第四点，是对整个领域的影响力。

And then four, influence on the field.

他们几乎在重新定义什么是优秀。

So they're almost redefining what good looks like.

他们做自己的事，别人就开始模仿他们的方法。

So they're doing their thing and then others are copying their techniques.

别人模仿他们的风格，因为这个人已经把标准提升了。

They're copying their style because that person has themselves raised the bar.

第五点是他们的思维模式和所遵循的流程。

And then the fifth one is their mindset and the process that they follow.

他们不只是有天赋，也不是天生就拥有什么优势然后直接用上了。

So the idea that they're not just talented and they haven't just been born with something that they're just using.

他们还有一套系统。

They've also got a system.

他们对细节有着近乎偏执的专注。

They're obsessed with the details.

他们坚持不懈地训练、恢复、建立反馈机制，即使已经领先，依然不断追求进步。

They put in relentless training, recovery, feedback loops and then discipline to keep improving even when they are already ahead.

至于自律，我们后面可能会再聊，因为他们自己可能并不觉得那是自律。

And then discipline we'll probably talk about later because they might not see it as discipline.

他们只是觉得，这本来就是自己该做的事。

They might just see it as what they do.

但在外人看来，他们的行为简直一丝不苟、纪律严明。

But then to an onlooker, they will look incredibly regimented and disciplined.

是的。

Yeah.

你对世界级的定义，比我想象的要深刻得多，不过我倒也不觉得意外。

So your definition or your criteria for being world class is much deeper than I thought, but I'm not surprised there.

当我们问你：你算世界级吗？

When we ask you, are you world class?

人们总是很快就说‘是’。

People are really quick to say yes.

我会问：这个人算得上世界级吗？

Or I'll say, is this person world class?

因为你刚在Instagram上看到过他。

Because you've seen him on Instagram.

他们就说：当然是。

They're like, yes.

我觉得我们根本没仔细看。

Like, I think we're not looking hard enough.

我们只是把人气当成了世界级，其实不是这么回事。

We're just assuming popularity equals world class, and it's not that way.

我们就拿摄影师来举例吧。

So let's take photographer the sake of conversation.

比如说，你拍名人肖像。

Let's say you shoot celebrity portraits.

这已经是我能想到的最具体的范围了。

That's about as narrow as I can get.

所以，基于你观察到的这些情况，这五个标准，有没有什么需要调整的？

So if we look at that, Jodie, based on the things that you've been able to observe, the five criteria, does anything change at all?

我们该怎么用大白话让别人明白这一点呢？

Like, how do we help people understand this kind of in layman terms?

如果你的领域像名人肖像这么窄，那特别重要的是，你要清楚自己什么时候才算真正达到了顶尖水平。

I think if your field was something narrow like celebrity portraits, I think it would be really important to define yourself when you feel like you are world class in that.

别人的定义可能不一样，但这其实没那么关键。

Which might be different from someone else's definition but it doesn't necessarily matter.

真正关键的是，当你能比别人更常接到活儿，被选中去拍那些你认为最顶级的名人，拍A级明星而不是D级明星的时候。

But that might be when you get the jobs over other people, when you get selected over other people, when you get to shoot who you believe are the best celebrities in the world, when you're shooting A listers instead of D listers.

我还挺认同影响力这个标准的。

And then I quite like the idea of influence on the field.

如果你在这个领域里逐渐成为顶尖人物，你会开始注意到，自己的风格被别人模仿了。

In that I feel like if you were in that field and you were becoming world class you would start to notice your specific style being emulated by other people.

一开始你可能会看到，然后说：这招是我用的。

And maybe at first you would see it and you would say, I do that.

我确实用过。

I did that.

我发明了那种拍摄手法，或者那个背景布，类似的东西。

I invented that camera technique or I invented that backdrop or something like that.

那时候你会觉得有点怪。

And you would feel a bit strange.

但很快你就会意识到，这其实是极大的认可。

But then you would very quickly realize that that was a such a big compliment.

然后你会为别人模仿你而感到自豪，因为你还在不断进步。

And then you would start to feel proud of people copying you because you're still improving.

如果有人落后你几步，那也没关系。

So if there are a few steps behind, fine.

就让他们跟着吧，反正你还在往前走。

Let them be because you're still going.

是的。

Yeah.

但很多人，尤其是创意领域的人，并不这么看。

A lot of people don't see it like that though, unfortunately, especially in the creative space.

所以有些技巧、工具和流程都被当成机密严格保密。

So that's why certain techniques, tools, processes are such guarded secrets.

人们不愿意分享，就是怕别人照搬。

People don't wanna share that because they don't wanna create clones.

我并不是在鼓励人们去抄袭别人。

Now I'm not advocating for, like, people copying people.

这其实不可避免。

It's inevitable.

我举个例子吧。

But here's an example.

这是个真实的案例。

This is a real world example.

很多年来，直到今天，如果你访问摄影师的网站，他们通常会用某种Flash或Java插件来限制你下载图片。

For many years and probably still to this day, if you go on a photographer's website, they use some kind of Flash or Java so that you can download the images.

但你知道吗，我其实只要截个屏就能搞定。

But you know I can just screen capture it.

他们就是不想让你下载图片的过程轻松那么20%。

They just don't wanna make it 20% easier for you to download.

正因为这样，谷歌的爬虫根本抓不到你的图片。

And because of that, the spiders from Google can't index your images.

所以当你搜索自己的作品时，根本找不到。

So when you search for your work, you can't find it.

你这么做，确实让别人下载你的图片多了10%到20%的麻烦，但同时也让搜索引擎抓取你的作品变得困难了两倍甚至五倍，没人能通过搜索找到你。

So, yeah, you're making it like 10%, 20% harder for people to download your images, but you're also making it 20 or a 100% harder for indexing robots to find your work and to be able to send people your way.

这其实是一把双刃剑，但他们还是宁愿这么做。

So it's it's a double edged sword, but they'd rather do that.

现在你可以验证这个说法了，情况正在慢慢改变，因为我觉得越来越多摄影师终于意识到：我宁可被人找到，也不想靠这种手段保护图片。

Now you can test this theory and it's slowly starting to change because I think they've like raised their hand and said, well, I would prefer to be found than to try to protect my images this way.

所以我们用这种方式来减缓竞争。

And so we kind of use that as a way to slow down competition.

我们并不是觉得资源有限才这么做的。

We don't look at it as a there's like a scarcity mindset.

这不是零和博弈的思维，而是缺乏丰盛心态——其实市面上有大量作品。

There's the zero sum game mindset, and there's not an abundance mindset where, you know, there's a lot of work out there.

真正懂行的人自然知道，这些照片是我拍的，这种风格或技法也是我首创的。

And the people who know will know that I was the one who took these photos and originated this particular style or technique.

我觉得那些真正顶尖的人——

I feel like the people who are really truly at the top.

比如像碧昂丝这样的人，

So the people who spring to mind are people like Beyonce.

碧昂丝会保护自己网站上的内容，担心别人抄袭吗？

Does Beyonce protect things on her website because she thinks that people are gonna copy it?

我觉得她根本不会这么做。

Like I don't think she does.

我觉得她只是在做自己，知道抄袭是不可避免的，但她已经领先太多了，根本不会去在意这些。

I think she's just being Beyonce doing her thing, knowing that copycats are inevitable but just she's so far away from that that it doesn't even cross her mind.

我不认识她本人，但我能想象得到，当你达到某个高度时，这种事对你来说已经完全不重要了。

I think I'm not I don't know her personally but I can almost imagine you get to a stage where that just doesn't even matter at all.

那对你的体量来说，根本不值一提。

It's just too small for you to think about.

确实如此。

Yes.

不过咱们再往深了说。

You know let's go beyond that though.

当你足够自信，达到世界级水平时，你就会放下那种‘我已经够多了’的想法，转而真心希望同行也能成功，同时我也想以身作则，证明慷慨也是一种力量。

When you're so confident and world class, you start to let go of this idea like I've got enough and actually I want to help other people in my space do well, but I also want to lead and show that generosity can be a thing.

所以我就干脆直接分享这些内容。

And so I'm going to just give stuff away.

我觉得这需要极大的自信才能做到。他们没那么担心……我是说，只要一听莫比（Moby）的歌，你就能听出他的个人风格，那独特的印记无处不在。

And I think it takes a level of confidence to be able to do that and they're not so worried like, oh, I mean as soon as you listen to something like that's a Moby sound, you can tell his signature, his fingerprints are all over it.

特伦特·雷诺和九寸钉乐队也是这样。

Same thing with Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails.

那种声音太有辨识度了，你就算模仿，别人一眼就能看出你是抄的。

It's like, yeah, it's so distinctive of a sound that it would be hard for you to copy and not be labeled as a copycat.

我们也可以看看能力发展的不同阶段，因为这都是通往顶尖水平的必经之路。

If we also look at the different stages of competence as well because that's all on the journey to becoming world class.

一开始是无知的无能，你根本不知道自己有多差；但一旦开始尝试，你就立刻意识到自己确实不行。

If you have first unconscious incompetence when you don't know that you're not very good at something, then as soon as you start trying it out you realize that you now know that you're not very good at it.

然后你慢慢进步到有意识的熟练，这时候你清楚自己正在变得越来越厉害。

And then you progress up to conscious competence where you you know that you're becoming really good at something.

但再往后，你就进入了一种无意识的境界，做事几乎全靠直觉了。

But then after that you move beyond it where it becomes this unconscious thing where you almost just have this intuition around what you're doing.

我觉得，当你最想保护自己成果的时候，大概就是第三个阶段。

I think that the stage at which you really do want to protect what you're doing is probably number three.

有意识的熟练阶段，因为你很清楚自己为了变得优秀付出了多少努力，所以难免担心别人会不会轻易复制走。

The conscious competence because that's probably where you are aware that you have to put a lot of conscious work into being good and therefore it could maybe feel like there's a danger there that someone else could just do that too.

但我觉得，一旦达到无意识熟练的阶段，你就几乎没人能超越了，因为你为达到这种与生俱来的水平付出了无数小时。

But I think that once you get to unconscious competence you're almost untouchable because of how many hours you've had to put in getting to that level of just innate being good at something.

如果你意识到自己已经到了这个阶段，那其中蕴含着巨大的力量，因为你能够一直走下去，不断精进。

And if you realize you're in that stage there's a big power in that because you could just keep going forever and ever and keep getting better.

这确实很有力量，因为对你来说，这一切都显得毫不费力。

There's a lot of power in that because it feels effortless to you.

别人看你，就会觉得奇怪：你怎么做到的？

People look at you and it's like, how are you doing?

你是不是凭空变出来的？

Are you just pulling us out of thin air?

当我看到保罗·麦卡特尼爵士随便在键盘上弹几个音，就能即兴写出一首歌时，我不是说那一定是一首好歌，但那确实是一首歌。

When I watch Sir Paul McCartney just play a thing on a keyboard and just write a song from nothingness, I'm not saying it's a great song, but it's still a song.

你只能佩服得五体投地。

It's like you're in awe.

但这里也有个问题。

But here's the downside.

所以我花更多时间思考自己的哲学和信念体系时，也遇到了一些有相同想法的人，他们在哲学方面比我深入得多。其中有一个观点是：没有绝对的好事，也没有绝对的坏事，好坏总是相伴而生的。

So as I spend more time thinking about my own philosophy and belief systems, and I'm kind of bumping up to other people who share same ideas who have much more deep in the philosophy, but there's this idea that there's no such thing as a good thing without a bad thing, and no such thing as a bad thing without a good thing.

那么，当你达到“无意识胜任”这个阶段时，问题出在哪里呢？

So what's the problem when you reach unconscious competence?

也就是说，你已经熟练到根本不需要刻意去想该怎么做了。

Meaning, you're so competent, you don't even think about doing it.

事情自然而然就做好了。

It just gets done.

就像呼吸一样自然。

It's so natural like breathing.

我们不会特意去关注呼吸这件事。

We're not focused on breathing.

我们一直都在这么做。

We do it all the time.

或者像眨眼一样。

Or like blinking.

只有当你刻意去想的时候，才会觉得费劲。

You only exert effort when you think about it.

你真正该追求的就是这种状态。

That's the level you wanna get to.

明白吗？

Okay?

但这种状态也有个副作用，叫‘知识的诅咒’。

The downside to this is a form of cognitive bias called the curse of knowledge.

你我大概都受过这种知识诅咒的影响。

You and I probably suffer from some form of curse of knowledge.

知识的诅咒就是，你太擅长做某件事了，以至于忘了自己当初也曾一窍不通。

The curse of knowledge says we've become so good at doing something that we forget at one point in our lives, we used to struggle.

所以有些顶尖高手就会对别人发火：你怎么连这个都不会？

So this is where some high performers get really nasty with people like, why can't you do this?

你真是太笨了。

You're so stupid.

这太简单了。

It's so easy.

你就照这么做就行了。

Just do it like this.

所以他们当老师特别差，因为他们完全记不得从零到七十是什么感觉。

And so they make horrible instructors because they can't remember what it was like from zero to 70.

他们只记得从九十九到一百那一刻的感受。

They just know what it feels like from '99 to 100.

所以很多年来，我得坦白一件事。

And so for many, many years, this is a confession.

对不起，各位。

I'm so sorry, everybody.

我在艺术中心教过的学生们，我老想不通，你们怎么就看不到这两样东西呢？它们明明就挨在一起。

My former students at Art Center, I was like, how come you can't see these two things, like, literally right next to each other?

你应该画出来的画面，就在这儿啊。

The image you should've made is, like, right there.

他们就盯着那地方看，所有人都在想：他到底在看什么？

And they're they're staring at it, and everybody's like, what is he looking at?

我就说：就在这儿啊。

I'm like, it's right there.

我跟你保证，就在这儿。

I swear to you it's right there.

我会给点提示，但绝不会直接告诉他们答案。

And I would give him hints without trying to tell him what it is.

结果二十分钟这么熬下来，他们就说：你直接说吧。

And then after twenty minutes of doing this, they're like, well, you just tell us.

我就说：行吧。

I'm like, alright.

我走过去，拿上马克笔，稍微翻了下页面，然后画了出来。

I walk over with my marker, I turn the page a little bit, and I draw this.

他们就说：天哪。

And they're like, oh my god.

我觉得他们心里想的是：我们讨厌你。

And I think what they're thinking is we hate you.

那东西明明就在那儿。

It was literally right there.

只要稍微眯一下眼，稍微调整一下你的视角，答案就清清楚楚地摆在那儿，连概念都一目了然。

It was just a squint of the eye, a little bending of your what you perceive, and the answer was there and conceptually.

我之所以这么不愿意直接指出来，是想引导他们自己去发现，我不想剥夺他们自己把这一切拼凑起来的那份喜悦。

And the reason why I'm so reluctant to show them, I want to lead them now without telling them because I do not want to rob them of the joy of putting these things together themselves.

但我之所以说这些，是因为我当初去教课的时候，特别着急，心想：各位，我们已经练了十周了。

But I say all this stuff because when I went to teach, I would get frustrated because I'm like, guys, we've been doing this for ten weeks now.

每次我让你们这样去想，你们还是卡在那里。

And every single time that I ask you to think about it like this, you're still stuck.

这就是所谓的知识的诅咒。

So this is the curse of knowledge.

当你对某件事已经熟练到不假思索的时候，就容易对别人没耐心。

When you have unconscious competence, you can get a little testy with people.

你忘了实际的步骤。

You forget the actual steps.

所以你之前提到，当你处于有意识的熟练阶段，这其实是个危险时期，但同时也是你最适合当老师的时刻——因为你正进入一种状态：你再也记不清自己是怎么做的了，但你有足够的知识基础，能教别人。

So when you were saying before, when you're consciously competent, it's a dangerous time, but it's actually your best time to become an instructor because you're moving into a state where you will no longer remember how to do what you do, but you have enough knowledge behind you that you can teach others.

而我们大多数人，要么根本到不了有意识的熟练阶段，要么直接跳过去了，错过了这个宝贵的机会。

And most of us either never get to conscious competence or zoom past it and we lose this window that we have.

直到有年轻人，或者来自其他领域、经验不足的人问我，克里斯，你是怎么做到的？

So it's not until some young person or some inexperienced person from a different field ask me, Chris, how would you do that?

我从来没想过，这件事对别人来说并不明显，直到有人问我‘你是怎么做到的？’

And it's never occurred to me that it's not obvious to everyone until I'm asked, how'd you do that?

那时候我才不得不坐下来，钻进自己的脑子里，试着一步步拆解给你听。

And then I have to sit there and crawl into my own brain and say, let me try and break it down for you this way.

幸运的是，我有这个能力这么做，但很多非常厉害的人，其实根本没有这种能力。

Now luckily I have that ability to do that but a lot of people who are very good do not have that ability to do that.

我觉得，当你拥有无意识的熟练时，很容易变得特别不耐烦。

I feel like when you do have the unconscious competence you can be such an intolerant person.

每次互动都会让你更加确信这一点。

And then I feel like every interaction you had would just back that up.

所以你会一直觉得，别人根本做不了。

So you would keep thinking oh one else can do it.

这件事只能我自己来。

I have to do it myself.

招人也好，外包也好，都变得特别困难。

It would become hard to hire, hard to outsource.

虽然站在顶端会觉得特别孤单，但如果你想继续成长、不断进步，而不是只想当个独行侠、不组建团队，你就得把自己的方法变成一套体系。

It would feel very lonely at the top but then you have to like in order to grow, order to keep progressing, unless you want to be this solo artist and not build a team around you, you have to turn your methods into structure.

但就像他刚才说的，那个阶段几乎是顾问的舞台。

But like he said the step before, that's almost the consultant's playground.

那是培训师的舞台。

That's the trainer's playground.

如果你在技能还没变成下意识之前，就意识到自己已经做得非常出色了，那就得赶紧把你的方法记录下来。

That's this whole place where if you realise that you are getting really good at something before it gets unconscious you have to write your methods down.

你得想个办法教他们，哪怕只是写日记也好。

You have to find some way of teaching them even if you're just keeping a journal.

你怎么证明自己是世界级的，真的那么厉害，配得上这份信任？

How do you demonstrate that you're world class or you're that good so that you've earned the right?

差不多就是这个意思。

Something like that.

对吧？

Right?

如果你拿过奖，那就一目了然了。

So if you've won awards, it's clear.

如果你当过评委，那也很清楚了。

If you judge shows, it's pretty clear.

如果你在这个领域待了特别久，大家都公认你是元老，从一开始就参与其中，是某个运动的奠基人之一。

If you've been in a field for a very long time, like you're considered an OG, an original gangster, and you were there at ground zero, you're part of a movement.

如果历史书里已经把你写进去了，而你还活着，那基本就说明你确实够格了。

If the the history books already include you while you're still alive, that's a pretty good sign.

如果你是这方面的教授或讲师，别人还专门请你去讲课，那你的水平就很明显了。

If you're a professor or a lecturer on this topic where people fly you in, I think you can demonstrate it quite handily.

你根本不用向那个人证明什么。

And you don't have to demonstrate to that person.

关键是你有没有给自己授权，允许自己成为这样的人。

It's more, have you given yourself permission to be this person or not?

好像只有当你成功了，别人才会庆祝你的那些成就。

It almost feels like you only get celebrated for the good stuff when you have made it.

而在那之前，你这些特质反而在学校里被人取笑。

And then before that, that's the stuff that you almost get teased at school about.

比如你太痴迷、太较真、从不放弃，或者对某个话题狂热到不行。

Like being obsessed or being intense or being like never giving up on something or being just crazy about this one topic.

这些在高中时，别人只会说：‘你真是个怪人。’

That's all the stuff that if you're at high school people would be saying, oh you're a weirdo.

你到底在搞什么啊？

Like what are you even doing?

但只有当你展现出世界级的水平时，人们才觉得那是艺术和天才。

And then it only looks like art and genius when you have demonstrated that you can be world class at it.

可在此之前，你该怎么熬过去呢？

But how do you get over the bit before then?

你是怎么从被嘲笑变成被追捧的？

How do you go from bullied to celebrated?

我可以跟你分享一些我的亲身经历，看看能不能让你明白，能不能从中找到一些线索。

I can share with you some of my own life experiences and see if it makes any sense to you and if you can unpack it.

我一直记得自己擅长艺术和设计，因为我是那个爱画画、安静又有点怪的文艺孩子。

I have always remembered being good at art and design and creative because I was the creative weird, quiet art kid.

我总是在笔记本上不停地画。

I would draw all the time in my notebooks.

所以每到体育活动，我总是最后一个被挑中的。

And so whenever there was a sporting event, I would be last picked.

但要是有创意项目，我肯定是第一个被选中的。

But if there was a creative project, I would be first picked.

我们选他，是因为我们知道他准能干得漂亮。

And, like, we want him because we know it's gonna be good.

我觉得在小学时，对某件事特别着迷其实是好事。

So I think in grade school, you can be obsessed about something, and I think it's actually good.

除非你表现得特别怪异，不然别人一般不会欺负你。

I don't think you get picked on that much unless you start acting really weird.

人们其实很尊重坚定的态度。

And I think people respect conviction.

比如你穿着童子军制服去上学，别人可能会偷偷笑，但你心里清楚：我为这身衣服感到骄傲。

Like, when you'd show up to school in your scouting uniform and people would snicker a little bit, you're like, I'm proud to wear this.

这身衣服是我凭本事挣来的。

I've earned this.

我们之前聊过，在无意识熟练阶段，你往往说不清自己是怎么做到的。

So we talked about how in unconscious competence you often can't really explain it.

别人会问：‘你那个本事是怎么练出来的？’

People will say like, oh, how do you do that thing?

你是怎么做到的呢？

Like, how do you okay.

你真是个特别出色的演讲者。

So you're a really good public speaker.

你的方法是什么？

Like, what's your process?

他们就说，我不知道。

And they go, I don't know.

我就是这么做了。

I just do it.

这种说不清道不明的状态，容易让人觉得他们不懂行或者不专业。

That's them kind of not being able to explain themselves which then might look like they didn't know or they weren't legit.

其实恰恰相反，他们太专业了，专业到都忘了怎么解释了。

When actually they are so legit that they've forgotten how to explain themselves.

那你怎么判断呢？

So then how do you how do you know?

那种在面试时撒谎的人，属于有意识的无能阶段，因为他们知道自己不懂那些东西。

The kind of person who lies during an interview is consciously incompetent, stage two, because they're aware that they don't know stuff.

所以他们干脆瞎编一通。

So they just make up stuff.

他们很清楚自己的状态，而且在这个阶段特别没安全感，依我看，这是最糟糕的阶段。

They're aware, and they're very insecure in this state because the worst state to be in is stage two, in my opinion.

傻乎乎地开心着，其实挺好。

It's good to be stupid and happy.

你根本不知道自己不知道什么。

You don't know you what you don't know.

事实上，有时候那些无意识的无能者，反而是真正改变世界的人。

In fact, sometimes unconscious incompetence are the people who are actually world breakers.

他们觉得什么事都能办到。

They just think anything can be done.

于是他们就去做了。

They do it.

他们甚至不知道他根本做不到。

They don't even know that he can't do it.

很多创意人士其实被误判为有意识的无能，而他们实际上是有能力的。

Where a lot of creative people live in, unfortunately, is they're misdiagnosed as consciously incompetent when they're actually competent.

我只是觉得自己技能还不够。

Just think I don't have enough skills.

他们拿自己和想象中的完美未来自我，或者别人比较，总觉得永远赶不上。

They're comparing themselves to an imagined perfect future self or others, and they're just like, I'll never measure up to that one.

没人能赶得上。

No one will.

没人今天就能成为未来的自己。

No one's who they're going to be in the future today.

所以这才叫未来。

That's why it's called the future.

至于那些无意识地精通的人，比如你太厉害了，都忘了自己是怎么做到的，这种人一眼就能看出来。

So if we talk about people who are unconsciously competent, like, you're so good you forgot how you do it, you can always tell.

我从来没见过哪个人本事大到你根本感受不到他有多厉害。

I've never once met a person who's that good who you just couldn't feel from them that they're that good.

这正是你在这么做。

This is you doing it as well.

这正是你在说，对啊。

This is you saying, yeah.

一眼就能看出来。

It's easy to tell.

我就想问，你到底是怎么做到的？

And I'm like, tell me the process.

你却说，就是能感觉到。

And you're like, you just you just know.

我来告诉你具体是怎么做的。

I'm gonna tell you the process.

你就是能感觉到。

You can tell.

给我一个类别。

Give me a category.

先选个简单的，然后再来个难的，让我根本猜不出来。

Go with an easy one first, and then go crazy on me and make it very difficult for me to tell.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

选一个他们对某件事已经做到不自觉地精通的。

Go with one that's kind of they're unconsciously competent about something.

他们对什么能做到不自觉地精通？

What are they unconsciously competent about?

领英。

LinkedIn.

明白了。

Okay.

有人说我在LinkedIn上特别在行。

Somebody says I'm really good at LinkedIn.

然后我就问，你到底哪儿在行？

And then I'm like, what are you good at?

我一看就知道哪个开头会火，哪个不会。

I can just tell when a hook is gonna perform and when it's not.

明白了。

Okay.

你有没有发现，那些有效的开头和无效的开头之间有什么共同点？

Have you noticed any patterns between the ones that work and ones that don't?

有。

Yeah.

它们都会制造信息缺口。

They create an information gap.

它们都会引发情绪反应。

They create an emotional response.

它们让人忍不住想把后面的内容读完。

They make someone want to read the rest of it.

而且这些做法也不是人人都会用的。

And they're also something that not everyone says.

所以你会觉得，哎呀，糟了。

So there's an element of, oh, no.

他们没做到。

They didn't.

那当你看到一个不好的时候，你会找什么线索？

So when you see one that isn't, what are you looking for?

你肯定见过很多特别差的开头。

You must have seen really bad hooks.

是的。

Yeah.

我一看就知道，这个肯定不行。

I just look at them and I go, oh, that's not gonna work.

这真是挺遗憾的。

And that's a shame.

但我也不总是能说清楚。

But I don't always know.

有时候呢，它像个问题，可没人关心答案是什么。

Sometimes it's because it's like a question but no one cares about the answer.

有时候呢，你得想得太深了。

Sometimes it's because you have to think too much.

有时候呢，信息缺得太多，根本让人摸不着头脑。

Sometimes it's because there's too much information missing so it just doesn't make sense.

明白了。

Okay.

你已经展示过了。

So you've already demonstrated it.

你已经通过你的延伸能力证明了这一点。

You've already demonstrated by your ability to expand.

现在有很多高手，他们根本不会整天琢磨自己在做什么，但一旦被问到具体的问题，他们能轻松答上来。

Now a lot of people who are really good, they don't sit around and think about what they do anymore, but when asked very specific questions, they can answer them pretty easily.

你能看出来，因为他们根本不用动脑筋，答案自然就出来了。

And you can tell because they don't even have to think about it.

我很少遇到这么厉害的人，他们的肢体语言、语调、表达方式，还有简洁的回答，全都透着专业。

Rarely have I ever met someone that was that good that you just didn't understand in their body language, in their tonality, their phraseology, and their succinct answers.

你一听就知道，他们对你能做什么说得清清楚楚。

You could just tell and they're very specific about what you can do.

如果一个人老是说些模模糊糊的套话，那基本就是自己都不清楚自己在干嘛。

Vague generalities are a good sign that you don't know what the hell you're doing.

这其实是我最近一直在教的内容，因为我一直在办一个叫‘教练版LinkedIn’的网络研讨会，里面我提了一个框架，叫‘吸收—调整—提升’。

So this is actually something that I've been teaching recently because we have this webinar that I've been running called the LinkedIn for Coaches webinar and there's a framework that I've been talking about and I'm calling it 'Adopt Adapt Improve'.

这理念是我爸教我的，其实源自英国一个类似俱乐部的座右铭。

And it's my dad taught in me but it's from like a it's kind of a like a round table motto like a kind of club in The UK.

但如果有人想真正精通某件事，又不想花成千上万小时去苦练，那怎么才能更快上手，达到足够专业的水平，好让自己的事业成长起来呢？

But I think that if someone wants to be really good at something but if they don't want necessarily the giant hours of learning curve, it's like how do you get there a little bit faster but still become like an expert or still get really good at it enough to be able to grow your business?

你听好了。

Look.

我不确定最后会说到哪儿，但在结束这个话题之前，我得跟你做点什么。

I don't know where we're gonna end but I do need to do something with you before we end on this topic.

明白吗？

Okay?

乔迪·库克在某个领域算得上世界级吗？你怎么看？

Is Jodie Cook world class at something and how do you know?

我最近在想，这好像是赛斯·戈丁说过的一句话。

So one of the things I was thinking about is how I think it's a Seth Godin quote.

意思是，只要你不断精炼自己做的事，直到成为这领域里最顶尖的。

The idea that if you you keep defining what you do until you're the best in the world at what you do.

我喜欢这种叠加的方式，因为我肯定不是世界上最强的举重选手。

And I do like the idea that you stack stuff together because I'm definitely not the best powerlifter in the world.

我也不是世界上最强的女性举重选手。

I'm not the best female powerlifter in the world.

我不是最顶尖的57号。

I'm not the best 57.

不用是最顶尖的，只要达到世界级水平就行。

Not the best, just world class though.

你现在已经达到世界级水平了吗？

Are you world class yet?

我参加国际比赛，所以我觉得‘国际精英’这个分类挺合适的——只要成绩达标，就算数。

Well I compete internationally so I would say like international elite is like a category that comes up that if your numbers match then you are that.

所以理论上有可能，但要是说全球前二十名那种级别，我觉得我还差得远。

So yeah potentially but then the real like top 20 people in the world or that kind of number, I feel like no.

除了卧推之外。

Apart from bench press.

但如果把卧推和其他东西结合起来，比如商业、旅行，或者其他领域，有一套组合描述，我觉得那确实能代表我。

But then if you combine that with something else like something to do with business or something to do with travel or something to do with something else, there is a combination of words that you could say that I would think yes that is me.

在那方面，我算得上世界级。

I'm world class at that.

明白了。

Okay.

所以你是要把领域收窄到能排进全球前50，成为顶尖水平。

So you niche down enough where you can be world class top 50 in the world.

这意思对吧？

Is that the idea?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是这样。

I think so.

因为这样一来，你就能完全掌控这个领域，比如拥有超棒的斜方肌、卧推厉害，同时还是播客主持人和创业者。

I think so because then you just own that thing and then all the different combinations of having amazing traps and being good at bench press and also being a co host and also being a business owner.

这样一来，你就成了独一无二的顶尖版本，根本没人能跟你比。

That means that you're then this world class version of you that there is no competition.

你整个人都能感受到这种底气。

You feel it wholly.

你根本不可能在任何问题上露怯，因为那本来就是你真实的样子。

There's no question that you could get asked that you would slip up on because it's just who you genuinely are.

然后你就会以世界顶尖的姿态去生活，我觉得这才是关键，因为一旦这成了你的身份，我就很难做出违背自己身份的事——这关乎诚信。

And then you go around feeling like you're world class which I think is the main thing because once it's your identity I find it really hard not acting in ways accordance with the identity that I've got for myself because it's an integrity thing.

如果我认定自己在这些方面综合起来都是世界顶尖的，那我就会一直按顶尖的样子去行动，这种状态会不断蔓延，让我持续保持下去。

So if I'm like I'm world class at all these different things combined I'm like world world world class at these things then you always act like you are and then it proliferates and then you continue to be.

那Jodie到底在哪些方面是世界顶尖的呢？

So what is Jodie world class at?

根据你的说法，你的专长到底是什么？

What is your niche based on your answers?

我不清楚。

I don't know.

我也说不准该怎么定义它。

I don't know how I actually define it.

明白。

K.

那咱们接着聊。

So to be continued then.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

对。

Yeah.

你定义好自己的了吗？

Have you defined yours?

比如说，如果我问你，你擅长什么？

Like if if I said, what are you world class at?

我觉得我在平面设计方面是顶尖的。

I believe I'm world class at graphic design.

如果你要让我和别人比一比，搞个比赛什么的，我肯定能赢大多数人。

So you want to put me up against some people and where there's a competition or something, I can out design most people.

我不是说我是最顶尖的，但在排版方面，我能胜过大多数人。

I'm not saying I'm the top one, but I can out design most people when it comes to typography.

还有一些领域是我希望未来能达到的。

And there's things I aspire to become.

有人说过，你是全球最有名的平面设计师。

Somebody had said you are the best known graphic designer on the planet.

我不确定这话是不是真的，也不清楚该怎么去衡量，但确实有人时不时这么称呼我。

I'm not sure if that's true, and I'm not sure how to determine that, but it is a term that people are using from time to time.

虽然我现在已经不觉得自己是个平面设计师了，但那确实是我过去做的事。

Even though I don't find myself as a graphic designer anymore, that was what I used to do.

我确实也做过其他事情，但我不会觉得自己在那些方面达到了世界级水平。

There's other things I've worked on, but I would not consider my world class myself world class.

我不是世界级的作家。

I'm not a world class author.

我也不是世界级的演讲者。

I'm not a world class public speaker.

我是个特别厉害的演讲幻灯片设计师，所有设计都是自己做的。

I'm a pretty kick ass keynote designer who designs the work himself.

不过目前好像还没有专门形容这种角色的类别。

But I I don't think there's a category for that just yet.

明白了。

Okay.

我现在能给出更好的回答了。

I think I have better answers now.

我已经听过你的了。

I've heard yours.

谢谢。

Thanks.

这真的很有帮助。

That's really useful.

不客气。

You're welcome.