为什么你的内容没有引起共鸣？与布兰登·凯恩对话 | 第404期

他们不会故意添油加醋。

They don't, like, embellish.

他们真的不会。

They don't Yeah.

讲出一个完整的故事。

Tell a story.

这样的人很难找。

Like, those people are difficult to find.

因为据我所知，就连西蒙的团队，也要面谈六十个人，最后只能挑出四五个。

Because I hear, even with Simon's team, like, they'll go and interview 60, and they'll get, like, four or five out of it.

成功率其实没那么高。

Like, the hit rate's not super high.

真的吗。

Wow.

明白了。

Okay.

这有点不一样。

This is a little bit different.

我现在也很好奇，因为美国人在全球的口碑并不好，尤其是英国人眼里。

Now I'm also curious because Americans don't have a sterling reputation around the world, maybe even especially from the Brits.

一个美国人走过来跟我搭话，各种社交媒体上还冲我刷屏。

Here's an American walking up to me, blah blah blah, social media that get on my face.

你觉得这也是原因之一吗？

Do you think that's part of it?

这确实有可能，但伦敦本来就是各种背景的人聚集的地方。

It definitely can be, but London's also a hotbed of different people.

那里可不全是英国人。

It wasn't all British people.

不过，我肯定这部分也有影响，但你想想，平时陌生人突然找上你，都是怎么回事？

But, yeah, I'm sure there's some aspect to that, but, like, just think about when random people approach you.

就是莫名其妙地过来问你：你干嘛呢？

It's just like, what are you doing?

你懂的吧。

You know?

因为你根本不知道，而这正是紧张感的来源——你心里会想，这个人接近我到底是什么目的？

Like, because you don't and that's a part of the tension is you're like, what is the intention here of this person approaching me?

你真的无从得知。

You don't know that.

但回到可预测性这一点上，街上的路人只是其中一种情况。

But getting back to kind of the the predictability nature of it is, like, again, man on the street is just one.

我和我的团队花了大约一万五千个小时，分析这些沟通模式的结构。

We my team and I have analyzed we spent, like, fifteen thousand hours analyzing these communication pattern structures.

我们管它们叫‘模式’，已经识别出了五百多种。

We call them formats, and we've identified over 500 of them.

可供选择的模式多得是。

So there's so many to choose from.

但我认为人类行为之所以可预测，首先是因为讲故事这件事。

But why I think that humans are predictable in nature is, like, first off, like, telling stories.

人类讲的第一个故事，发生在五万年前的篝火旁。

The first story ever told was fifty thousand years ago around a campfire.

最初的故事可不是童话，它们的根本目的是生存。

Now stories started out as a way to they weren't fairy tales.

教人识别危险、如何狩猎、怎样互相保护，诸如此类的实际生存经验。

They're about they're all about survival, what to fear, how to hunt, you know, how to protect each other, things of that nature.

这些故事和叙事结构，塑造了我们今天所见的一切。

And these stories and and and structures have built everything that we see around us today.

人类的DNA里就刻着对叙事结构的偏好——有开头、有发展、有结尾，有张力也有释放。

Is it's ingrained in our DNA to connect with a structure that has a beginning, middle, and an end to it, that has tension and release of tension up and down and things of that nature.

所以回到你最初的问题，爆款不是谁都能做到的。

So to your original point, like, virality is not anybody can do it.

但如果你能掌握这些模式，顺应人性、尊重历史，用这些沟通结构来优化表达，你的内容脱颖而出的概率能提升百倍。

Well, if you follow the patterns, if you follow human behavior, human history, and you use these patterns and structures of how you communicate to your advantage, it increases your chances of breaking through by a 100 x.

所以归根结底，核心还是故事。

So at the heart of this is stories.

我们都深信故事的力量，以及讲述故事的价值。

We're both big believers in story and the power of storytelling.

咱们来给大家讲个故事吧。

Let's tell people a story.

我们现在跟大家讲的是哲学和观察，但未必是故事。

We're telling people philosophy right now and observations, but not necessarily story.

最近在我们这里举办的一场活动中，有人给了我们一个提问，是Michelle小姐，他问：你是怎么走到今天的？

One thing that I've discovered recently during one of our events here in this space was a prompt that somebody gave us, miss Michelle, and he said, how did you get here?

这就是故事的结尾，也是我走到今天的原因。

That's the end of the story, and that's how I got here.

我想给你们一点时间想想，然后我再把整个故事讲出来。

So I want I'm gonna give you some time to think about it, and then I'm gonna tell the story.

这样可以吗？

Is that okay?

当然可以。

Yeah.

我先来，然后你接着说，这就是我怎么走到今天的。

I'll start first, and then you say, that's how I got here.

好。

Okay.

故事就到这里了。

That's end of the story.

明白吗？

Okay?

人们往往会紧张，因为不清楚故事的结局，结果东拉西扯。

So people stress out a little bit because they don't know where the story ends, and so they meander.

讲得七零八落，也就没那么吸引人了。

They go all over the place, and it becomes not so interesting.

但如果你知道故事怎么收尾，就会轻松很多。

But if you know how the story ends, then it's easier.

下面就是我怎么走到今天的。

So here's how I got here.

大家都不知道，其实我就在隔壁楼里。

People don't know this, but I'm in the building next door.

面积有五千平方英尺。

It's 5,000 square feet.

刚拿下那个空间没多久，生意就火得不得了，地方根本不够用了。

And shortly after acquiring that space, we're business is going like gangbusters, so we're outgrowing the space.

我们不得不把网线从走廊一路拉过去，还老是跳闸，因为机器太多，屋里热得不行。

So much so that we're running Ethernet cables down the hallway, and we're constantly tripping the breaker because we're using so many machines, and it's hot in that space.

有一天我正走在外面，突然发现我们所在的这栋楼挂出了出售的牌子。

And all of a sudden, one day, I'm walking outside, and I see there's a sign on this building that we're in, and it says for sale.

我老婆立刻行动起来，说咱们必须把这栋楼买下来。

So my wife immediately jumped on it and said, we have to acquire this building.

那个地方已经装不下我们了。

We're outgrowing that space.

这个非拿下不可。

We need to get this.

我当时就说，好吧。

And I was like, okay.

听起来不错。

Sounds good.

那地方原本是他们停西蒙森家的奔驰车做保养的地方，弄好了再运到威尔夏大道的主展厅。

And this was a space where they parked w I Simonson's Mercedes, their their cars, like, to be detailed and then brought over to their main showroom on Wilshire.

于是我们开始竞标，想买下这个场地。

And so we get into a bidding war to acquire this space.

我老婆情绪一上来，直接多出了一百万美元报价。

And my wife, just being super emotional, just overbids on this building by half $1,000,000.

我说：宝贝，这事你让我来处理吧。

I'm like, babe, let me do that part.

她却说：我知道你心里想要，但你肯定只想出最低价。

And she's like, I know you need it.

但我向你保证，我这么做是为了保护你，免得你事后后悔难过。

I know you're gonna try, like, do it the bare amount, but I promise you, I'm doing this to protect you so you will not be heartbroken.

结果呢，我们还真拿到了这个场地。

Lo and behold, we have this space.

我们花了一年时间装修，投入了一百多万美元，最后终于搬了进来。

We spent a year renovating it, a million dollars plus to renovate it, and we eventually move in.

但那是2007年的事了。

But this is 2007.

所以我们从那个地方搬到了这里。

So we moved from that space into this space.

这么大的空间，我们人却没几个。

There's not that many of us for a space of this size.

这个场地大概有一万三千平方英尺。

This space is about 13,000 square feet.

我们实际用的空间比原本需要的多了一倍多。

So we a little bit more than doubled the square footage of what we needed.

这里感觉特别开阔，而那边呢，又挤又紧张。

It felt vast versus over there was, like, tight and high energy.

这里空间大得不得了。

Here, it's, like, really big.

2008年金融危机爆发，我当时就想，我们买房是不是赶上了最高点，现在只能眼睁睁看着价值一路下滑。

Then the financial meltdown happens in 2008, and I think to myself, I think we bought this at the height of the market, and now we're paying for it all the way down.

我们当然挺过来了。

We have obviously survived.

有时候，我还会做噩梦，梦见自己买下了一个地方，结果不得不亏本甩卖。

And there are sometimes, I think, residual memories where I have nightmares about acquiring a space that I have to then sell at a massive loss.

这种情绪时不时就会在梦里冒出来，缠着我不放。

And so that little emotion that I have continues to haunt me from time to time on my dreams.

这就是我为什么会在这里的原因。

That's how I wound up here.

明白了。

Okay.

那我来说说我怎么走到这一步的。

So here's how I got here.

好的。

Okay.

在你开始之前，对这个故事有没有什么具体的分析、想法或者反思？

Before you do that, any breakdown, any thoughts, or reflections of that story?

我觉得这个开头还需要更有吸引力。

So I think that the hook needs to be stronger.

你确实已经设了一个开头。

So you have the hook in it.

大致是这样的：我一生中最重要的一个财务决定，正好发生在美國歷史上最嚴重的金融危機爆發前幾天。

It's something along the lines of the biggest financial decision I've ever made in my life happened days before one of the biggest financial meltdowns in American history.

这种强烈的对比。

The contrast.

对，就是这种对比，还有它背后的分量。

Yeah, the contrast, and the weight of it.

你想想，天啊，你刚做出这么重大的财务决定，结果整个美国就崩盘了。

You know, the, like, oh my god, you made this massive financial decision, and then America melts down.

听完这个故事后，你就能写出吸引人的标题和开篇了。

So after hearing the story, you can write the headline, the hook to draw people in.

我觉得最好的方式是先问自己：这个故事最想表达的是什么？我甚至建议再往前一步，想想你希望观众产生什么样的感受。

I think that's always a great way to do it is is what is the story you wanted well, I would even take a step back further is think about what is the effect that you wanna have on the viewer.

你希望他们感受到什么？

What do you want them to feel?

然后围绕这种感受来构建整个故事。

And then you design the story around that.

因为很多时候，我们在讲故事或制作内容时，只顾着自己想说什么、想传达什么，却忽略了屏幕另一端的人会怎么体验这一切。

Because, again, so many times when we're telling a story or creating a piece of content, we're just so focused on us and what we wanna convey, what we wanna say versus how is somebody on the other side of the screen going to experience this.

观众会有什么样的感受？

Like, what are they gonna feel?

他们会说什么？

What are they gonna say?

他们会怎么想？

What do they think?

如果让他们留言，他们会写些什么？

If they were to write a comment, what would that comment say?

是什么让他们愿意分享给朋友？

What would get them to share it with their friends?

只要你每次发帖都能做这样的转变——虽然需要一些练习，但每做一次，你就在锻炼这种能力，这会彻底改变你今后创作内容的方式。

And the moment that you can make that shift with each post, and it's gonna take some practice, but each time you do that, you're gonna start building that muscle, and it's gonna completely change your perspective on how you create content going forward.

明白了。

Okay.

这个分析我很喜欢。

I like that breakdown.

所以我们先从情绪入手。

So we start with emotion.

顺便说一句，我也是这么想的。

I I feel the exact same way too, by the way.

我写帖子的时候，不是像现在这样即兴拍摄，而是先从情绪开始。

When I write a post, not freestyling it on camera like this, I start with emotion.

我此刻感受到的是什么？

What is it I'm feeling?

我希望他们感受到什么？

What is it that I want them to feel?

我会用心去组织语言和故事，希望他们也能有同样的感受。

And I craft the words in the story so that they hopefully feel the same way.

很多时候，我的目标就是让人哭出来。

A lot of times my intention is to make people cry.

所以我写故事的时候就想：我希望你能体会到我正在经历的痛苦，因为我真的感受到了那种痛。

So I'm like, I'm writing stories like, I want you to feel the pain of whatever it is I'm going through because I felt that pain myself.

很多时候，人们就是这样做的。

And oftentimes that's what they do.

他们会在评论里说：你简直就是在描述我的生活和我的故事，天哪，谢谢你分享这些。

And they'll tell me in the comments, I feel like you're just describing my life and my story and like, my god, thank you for sharing that.

因为知道有人也经历过同样的事，我就没那么孤单了，心里也多了很多希望。

I feel so less alone in the world because someone else has experienced that and gives me a lot of hope.

你认识克雷格·克莱门茨吗？

Do you know Craig Clements?

不认识。

No.

克雷格是我一个很好的朋友。

So Craig, he's a good friend.

他创办了一家公司叫Golden Hippo，主要做医生和名人相关的消费品，公司通过社交媒体广告卖出了超过20亿美元的产品。

He founded a company called Golden Hippo, and they basically create consumer products around doctors and celebrities and things of that nature, and he's his company has sold over $2,000,000,000 worth of products through social media ads.

他是世界上最好的文案写手之一，说过类似的话。

One of the best copywriters in the world, and he says something similar.

他说，只要你能走进客户的内心，理解他们最根本的困扰——那种半夜惊醒他们的事，一旦你能比他们自己说得还清楚地表达出这个问题，你就能赢得他们的信任，他们就会跟着你走完你为他们准备的解决方案之路。

He says, the minute that you can get into your customer's head and understand their core problem, the thing that wakes them up in the middle of the night, and once you understand that and you can articulate their problem to them better than they could articulate it to themselves, you win their trust, and then they'll follow you down that journey with the solution that you wanna sell them.

这跟你刚才说的其实很像，就是那种让人感觉‘我也有过这种体验’‘我懂’‘我经历过’的共鸣。

So it's a very similar thing to what you're saying, that experience of people feeling that or saying, I've felt that, or I feel that way, or I've been through that.

这种情感连接，真的特别有力量。

That's such a powerful, powerful emotion in a way to connect.

我只是希望观众能明白，你刚才说的这种情感连接——让人觉得‘我也有同感’‘我经历过类似的事’——和发一个维生素补充剂加20%折扣码的帖子，完全是两码事。

And I just want the audience to kind of understand, like, what you just said of, like, creating that connection of, like, people saying, I feel that way, or I've been through that experience compared to posting a product of a vitamin supplement with a 20% coupon code on it.

那Roll这部分，人们到底该怎么做呢？

It's like, what are people supposed to do with Roll

就是这个部分。

the part there.

这完全不一样。

It's completely different.

没错。

Right.

这真的完全不一样。

It's completely different.

所以我做任何事，都会从‘钩子’的角度去思考。

So, everything I do is I perceive it through a hook.

我就是习惯用这种方式来看待一切。

I just kind of view everything that way.

我觉得你啊

I think You're

是个抓人眼球的高手。

a hooker.

对。

Yeah.

我就是个抓人眼球的高手。

I'm a hooker.

你就直说吧。

Just say it.

我就是个抓人眼球的高手。

I'm a hooker.

你也是。

You are.

这不就对了。

There you go.

我其实一直在想，到底是什么东西一下子就能抓住人？

I'm kind of looking at, like, what is the thing that just pops out?

什么是最能一眼吸引人的地方？

What is the thing that jumps out?

我平时都是凭直觉这么做，不知不觉就注意到了。但有个特别棒的练习，我写在我的《钩子书》里——你可以想象自己站在一个报刊亭前，周围全是杂志和报纸。

Like, I've just done it so intuitively that I kinda pick up on it, but, like, here's an amazing exercise, and I put it in my hookpoint book, like, that you can do is if you just imagine you're standing in front of a magazine stand, and you have all these magazines and newspapers in front.

甚至你可以真的去一趟巴诺书店这类还卖杂志的地方，看看那些封面标题，想想：如果只能用三到五个词，或者就一个标题，你会怎么写，才能让人从这么多刊物里挑中这一本，拿起来读？

And then it's even a great exercise just to go to a Barnes and Noble or someplace that still sells magazines, and you can look at it and just look at the titles and just think about if I only got, like, three to five words or just one headline, what would I say to get that person to pick up that magazine, that newspaper, and read it over all of the other ones out there?

当你强迫自己用这种方式思考时，就能慢慢看清，这个故事里最有力、最突出的那个点到底是什么。

And when you kind of constrict yourself to kind of thinking in that way, it allows you to kind of start looking at, like, what is the most impactful thing out of that story that stands out?

现在我们手头最厉害的工具，就是人工智能。

Now the beauty of the tools that we have available to us today is AI.

你可以把内容丢进ChatGPT，随便 brainstorm，我建议你至少生成五六十条，甚至一百条。

You can throw stuff in the chat GPT and just, like, brainstorm and, like I recommend is, like, go through 50, a 100 of these.

别只憋出五个点子就完事了。

Don't just, like, come up with five ideas.

但你得明白，我们现在生活在一个信息极度饱和的世界里。

But you've gotta kind of understand that we live in this world that is so saturated.

社交媒体太吵了，你必须打破常规。

It's so noisy with social media that you have to break the pattern.

你不仅要打破其他内容的模式，还得跳出所有关于你即将谈论话题的陈旧叙事。

You have to break the pattern of all the other content, but also have to break the pattern of every story that's already been told about what you're about to talk about.

因为事实就是，几乎所有东西都被人做过了。

Because the reality is everything's been done before.

所谓原创性，其实没那么重要，关键不在于创造全新的东西。

The originality is is overrated in terms of creating something new.

真正让你脱颖而出的，是你对它的独特解读、你讲的故事，以及你表达的方式。

Now your spin on it, your story about it, and the way you convey it, that's where you can create the hook and stand out.

就拿你刚才讲的那个故事来说，它可能已经被讲过上千遍了，但你如何调整、如何赋予它新的语境，这才是关键。

Like, the story that you just told, I mean, has been told a thousand times, but your version of it, of how you tweak it, how you contextualize it can help stand out.

明白。

K.

我再讲一个。

I'll do one more.

如果你真想学怎么抓住别人的注意力，别

I believe if you really wanna learn how people grab people's attention, don't

光

just

去巴诺书店了。

go to Barnes and Noble.

首先，那地方快过时了。

First of all, it's a dying breed.

去任何一家超市的结账区看看就行。

Just go to any grocery store where you're gonna go check out.

留意收银台旁边那些杂志。

Look at the magazines that are right by the checkout.

它们只有三秒钟时间吸引你，让你冲动购买。

They have three seconds to grab your attention and make you impulse buy.

我们说的是那种《询问我们周刊》之类的小报，就是这类东西。

We're talking about the inquire us weekly, the tabloids, those kinds of things.

因为它们就是冲着你来的，专门吸引你注意。

Cause they're going to just grab at you.

它们可卖力了，因为它们知道就靠这一招。

They work really hard because they know that's it.

总不能真有人出门说，‘我的全部人生就证明了这本杂志的冲动购买力吧？’

Cause no one's going out there like, all of me proves this magazine impulse.

对吧？

Right?

所以你可以把这些杂志当成‘秘密情人’来看。

So you can probably look at those like secret lover.

这个人突然现身了。

This person comes out.

有人密谋要除掉这个人。

Cabal to kill this person.

你是不是在想：什么？

And you're like, what?

这些内容总是刻意搞得挺夸张的，但你仔细看看，其实能学到不少东西。

They're always designed to really they're a little sensational, but you can probably learn a lot by just looking at those.

对吧？

Right?

广告牌也是。

Billboards too.

没错。

Yeah.

广告牌。

Billboards.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

因为他们确实有那种

Because they they have that

独特的视角。

mini perspective.

关键是，社交媒体上的内容需要更细腻的处理方式。

Thing is it has to be done a little bit more nuanced as social media.

如果现在有数十亿个数据点免费摆在我们面前，你只要留心观察，就能看出哪些内容有效、哪些无效，以及背后的原因。

Like, I mean, if there's billions of data points available to us for free, you just have to pay attention to them, and it'll show you the pattern of what works and what doesn't and why.

所以，只要是在那些注意力窗口极小的地方，一旦有东西抓住了你的注意，就停下来好好分析，看看能学到什么，再反过来拆解它的结构？

So anywhere where they have a very small window to grab your attention, if something grabs your attention, stop, pay attention to that, and see what you can learn from it, and reverse engineer the structure?

没错。

Yes.

但真正的学习来自于对比那些成功突围的内容和那些没成功的，这才是社交媒体真正厉害的地方。

However, the real kind of learning comes when you compare something that has broken through with the thing that hasn't broken through, and that's the power of where social media can.

就像我们之前聊的街头采访，我们观察所有常见的沟通模式和形式时，发现大多数人只关注赢家——那些获得数百万播放的内容，但真正有价值的洞察，其实是对比那些没火起来的内容。

So, like, we were talking about man on the street, and we do this with all of the the the communication patterns and formats that we find is most people just pay attention to the winners, the ones that generate millions and millions of views, but the real learnings are from when you compare it to the ones that don't break through.

比如说到街头采访，我们刚才一直在聊这个，就拿街头采访来说。

So, for example, with man on the street, which we're talking a lot about, we'll take man on the street.

我们已经做了九个相关的研究项目。

We've done, like, nine research projects of it.

我们做过西蒙·斯奎布的内容。

We've done Simon Squibb.

我们做过《人生课堂》的内容。

We've done school of hard knocks.

我们做过亚历克斯·斯坦普的内容。

We've done Alex Stemp.

我们做过《马克健身》的内容。

We've done body by Mark.

我们的做法是，挑出二十个表现突出的账号，就是那些能爆火、播放量上百万、上千万的。

What we'll do is we'll take 20 of the high performers, the ones that break through, generate millions, tens

上千万的

of millions

播放量的顶尖案例和那些表现平平、播放量只有几十万甚至更少的视频做对比分析。

of views, outliers, and then we cross analyze it against the ones that don't break through, that are the hundreds of thousands of views or less.

我们真的会坐下来，花上十五到二十个小时做这件事，因为我们不是只看一个爆款或一个普通视频，而是把所有爆款视频都仔细看完，然后提出假设——比如，觉得这些视频成功是因为他们与人互动的方式、提问的技巧，或者具体问了什么问题。

And we literally sit there, and we take about fifteen to twenty hours to do this, because we don't just look at one high performer or one low performer, but we literally watch all the high performers, then we make hypotheses of, like, think that these are performing because of the way that he approaches the person or the way that he asks the question or the question that he asks.

接着我们再看，这些特点在那些低播放量的视频里有没有出现。

And then we see, does it show up in those low performers?

如果低播放量的视频里也有同样的特点，那说明这并不是决定成功的关键因素。

If it shows up in that low performer, then that's not the thing that's driving the success.

你得把这种干扰项排除掉。

You have to knock it out.

然后你得回头重新审视。

And you have to go back and look.

那些高播放量视频里有哪些元素，是低表现视频里完全没有的？

Well, what are the elements there that show up in those high performers that don't show up in the ones that underperform?

真正的成功线索就藏在这里，而99%的人根本不会做这一步——他们只会看看‘街头采访’或者社交媒体上的成功案例，然后说：哦，我懂他们是怎么做的了。

That's where success that's where the clues come into play, and that's the step that 99% of people don't do is they'll look at man on the street or other successful people on social media, and they go, oh, I see what they're doing.

他们只会随便找个路人搭话，然后采访一下。

They're just gonna go approach random stranger on the street and interview them.

我也可以这么做。

I can do that.

他们去做了，但根本没用。

They go do it, and it doesn't work.

因为他们没去研究那些成功内容背后的沟通模式，没去分析整个故事是如何展开的，以及哪些关键要素促成了成功。所以人们才觉得走红靠运气，像中彩票一样，其实根本不是。

And it's because they haven't studied the communication patterns of how all the story unfolds and all those elements that causes success, and that's where virality feels like it's luck, like it's playing the lottery, but it's not.

那些线索其实就摆在你面前，等着你去发现。

They're they're literally the clues are right there for you to discover.

好的。

Alright.

该你来讲讲你的故事了。

It's your turn to tell the story.

我的故事？

My story?

是的

Yeah.

那我怎么走到这一步的呢？

So here's how I got here?

是的

Yeah.

那我怎么走到这一步的呢？

So here's how I got here.

小时候，我特别喜欢看电影。

As a young kid, I loved movies.

你有没有问过孩子，长大以后想做什么？

You know when you ask kids, like, what do you wanna be when you grow up?

我每次看完一部电影，答案就不一样了。

My answer would change every time I watch movies.

要是看的是《夺宝奇兵》，我就想当考古学家。

So if it was a movie about Indiana Jones, well, I wanna be an archaeologist.

如果是部侦探片，我就想当侦探。

If it's a movie about a detective, I wanna be a detective.

长大后到了该上大学的时候，我想去学电影。

When I grew up and it was time to go to college, I wanted to go to film school.

我想学会拍电影，还想当制片人。

I wanna learn how to make movies, and I wanted to produce them.

于是我进了电影学院，全身心投入到讲故事的各种方法里。

So I went to film school and got immersed in everything about how to tell stories.

但跟所有上电影学院的人一样，你接下来该干嘛？

But like everybody else who goes to film school, what do you do?

你搬去洛杉矶，追逐这个梦想。

You move to LA, and you pursue this dream.

但你得从最底层做起。

But you start at the bottom.

你得去泡咖啡。

You're making coffee.

你得跑腿送快递、复印文件，都是这类活儿。

You're making deliveries, copies, things of that nature.

一点儿都不酷。

Not the sexiest work.

刚开始的时候，真让人兴奋。

And in the beginning, it's amazing.

我心想：我居然在好莱坞了。

You're like, I'm in Hollywood.

我的第一份工作是在派拉蒙片场，那时候我特别激动。

I'm on a I was my first job was on the Paramount lot.

我到处逛，看着那些摄影棚，感觉像在做梦。

You're like, oh my god, I can walk around the Paramount lot, see the sound stages, things of that nature.

但干了几个月的端咖啡、跑腿之后，我就撑不住了。

But after a few months of making coffee and deliveries and things of that nature, I was like, I can't do this anymore.

我得想办法脱颖而出。

I need to stand out.

我得去跟制片人、演员和导演们建立联系。

Like, I need to connect with producers and actors and directors.

但问题是，当他们问我为什么来洛杉矶时，我就说：我想拍电影。

But the problem was when they asked me why did I move to LA, I was at well, I wanna be I wanna produce movies.

我特别爱电影。

I love movies.

结果一看，大家的眼神就飘了，因为像我这样怀揣同样梦想的人，多得数不清。

And I could see everybody's eyes glaze over because I was just one of a million with the same pipe dream.

于是我退后一步，心想：我得找到属于自己的独特亮点，那个能让我脱颖而出的关键。

So I took a step back, and I said, you know, I have to find my unique hookpoint, the hook that's gonna get me to stand out.

我注意到一个特别有意思的现象：每部电影拍完，办公室里都会弥漫着一股焦虑和压力。

And one of the fascinating things that I saw is every time we finished a movie, there'd be a sense of anxiety and stress that would come over the office.

为什么呢？

Why?

因为我们把几千万美元押在了一部片子上。

Because we were investing tens of millions of dollars into a single piece of content.

而我们只有几个月的时间，让全球数亿人知道这部作品，它才算成功。

And then we only had months for hundreds of millions of people around the world to know about this single piece of content in order for it to be successful.

你没有几年、几十年的时间去慢慢打造这个品牌。

You don't have years or decades to build this brand.

那是2006年2月左右的事。

And this was around 02/2006.

那时候，社交媒体刚开始兴起。

So social media was starting to come on the scene.

于是我想到，他们正面临一个巨大的需求和痛点——必须让这些电影被大众看到。

So I said, they have this big need and this big pain point that they need to get these movies out there.

他们需要上亿、甚至十几亿人知道这些电影。

They need millions, hundreds of millions of people to know about them.

当时刚出现了一个叫YouTube的新平台，有些人就在自己卧室里拍内容，居然能拿到几千万的播放量。

And there's this new thing called YouTube that just started, and there's these people in their bedrooms generating tens of millions of views on their content.

那我们为什么不直接去找这些人，问问他们愿不愿意采访电影明星，或者参与宣传呢？

Well, why don't we go and ask them if they wanna interview a movie star or participate in the campaign?

于是我向制片厂的负责人提了这个想法，他说我疯了。

So I pitched the head of the studio, and he said, you're crazy.

这根本行不通。

This isn't gonna work.

我就说，反正也不会花我们一分钱。

And I said, well, it's not gonna cost us anything.

我免费干。

I'll do it for free.

他听了就说，行吧。

He's like, okay.

你可以试试，但要是搞砸了，你以后就得多年都泡在端咖啡、跑腿上，我再也不信你了。

You can do that, but if you fail, you're gonna be stuck making coffee and deliveries for for years to come because I won't ever trust you again.

我就一头扎进去了，天天熬到凌晨三点，不停地给那些创作者发私信。

So I just went into that process, and I just spent you know, I was up till three in the morning, like, DMing these YouTubers.

那时候，他们还不叫YouTuber。

They weren't called YouTubers anymore before.

那时候还不叫什么网红。

They weren't, you know, called influencers.

有人问我，想不想去采访一位电影明星？

Said, do you wanna interview a movie star?

大部分都回绝了，好多都没回复。

And there was a lot of no's, a lot of no responses.

但我最后争取到了五个当时最顶尖的人，比如丽莎·诺瓦，她后来创办了Maker Studios，还有那个拍了舞蹈演变视频的人，那视频当时是YouTube上全球点击量第一的。

But I got five, like, the biggest people at the time, like Lisa Nova, who ended up founding Maker Studios, the guy that did the evolution of dance video that was, like, the number one video in the world at the time on YouTube.

这成了YouTube历史上第一个网红营销活动，让这部电影大获成功。

And that became the first ever influencer campaign on YouTube, and it made the movie a wild success.

电影叫《极速风流》，由杰森·斯坦森主演。

It was called Crank by Jason Statham.

票房收入是制作成本的三倍。

It it tripled its production budget.

杰森甚至邀请我去他家，聊数字营销的策略。

Jason even invited me to his house to talk about digital strategy.

那件事让我开了眼界，也奠定了我的事业基础，之后我不得不认真反思自己。

So that opened my eyes and built my career of putting myself on the map, and then I had to kinda just take a hard look at myself.

我当时在想，我是要继续迎合电影公司的那种 corporate 文化和游戏规则，还是去拥抱正在兴起的新媒介——社交媒体？那时候我还不知道它将来会变成什么样，但直觉告诉我，这里面有东西。

And what I was doing is, do I wanna play this corporate culture, corporate game of the movie studios, or there's this new medium called social media that's just forming, and it's I didn't know what it's gonna be today, but it seems like there's something there.

而且我确实取得了成功，这让我感到非常兴奋。

And I'm having success, and it's exciting.

于是我决定彻底转向社交媒体领域，如今我把自己二十年的经验分享出来，帮助别人找到属于自己的声音，并让世界听见。

So I decided to completely pivot my career into social media, and now I share twenty years of experience with people helping them on their journey of getting their voice right be heard.

这就是我今天走到这一步的经过。

So that is how I got here today.

所以你现在是不打算回答我吗？

So you're not giving me an answer now?

嗯，这个故事本身可能还不够抓人。

Well, that's the story that's not necessarily the hook.

对。

Right.

那你的故事的亮点到底是什么？

So what would be the hook for your story?

讲个故事是一回事。

See, it's one thing to tell the story.

但在讲之前先写出吸引人的开头，那是另一回事。

It's another thing to write the hook before you tell the story.

对。

Yeah.

比如说，可能是关于YouTube上第一个网红推广活动是怎么诞生的。

I mean, it could be something around how the first ever influencer campaign on YouTube was created.

这种方向我可能得花半小时到一小时反复打磨，尤其是如果要放在YouTube上的话。

Something it would need I would probably spend thirty minutes to an hour refining that, but something along that that angle, especially if it's gonna be on YouTube.

没错。

Yeah.

我想回赠你点什么，但现在卡住了。

I'm trying to return the favor, but I'm stuck right now.

我的脑子都快转不动了。

Like, my brain is over time.

不是，不行。

Like, no.

我想到了那个切入点。

I got the hook.

不，没想好。

No.

我还是没头绪。

I don't.

我真想不出什么来。

I got nothing for you.

如果你正在看这个视频，不妨在评论里说说，布兰登的故事该用什么做开头？

So if you're watching this video, why don't you drop in the comments what should the hook be for Brendan's story?

我想听听别人的故事都是怎样的。

I wanna know what people's stories are.

把你故事的钩子写出来。

Put the hook for your story.

你的生命故事是什么？

What's your life story?

大家应该把答案留在评论里。

People should put that in the comments.

我会去评论区帮大家修改钩子。

I'll go in the comments and rework people's hooks.

他会的。

He will.

我看过那些了。

I've seen them.

对。

Yeah.

如果有人写了，我真的很想看看大家的故事，咱们给点空间让他们发挥。

So if if they put it in, I would love to hear people's Let's give them fair amount.

如果在超市或巴诺书店里看到一本杂志，或者路边有个广告牌，你的开场白会是什么？

They had a magazine in the grocery store in Barnes and Noble, even though it's dying, or a billboard, what would your hook be?

我很想在评论区看到大家的回答。

I would love to see that in the comments.

好的。

Okay.

我们回到街头采访吧。

Let's get back to man on the street.

行，开始吧。

Let's do it.

明白吗？

Okay?

我不太记得我们说到哪儿了，但故事里总得有点结构，有点张力。

I don't know where we left off, so there's some structure, there's some tension.

是不是得有个明确的结局才够味？

Does there need to be some kind of clear payoff?

是的。

Yes.

而那正是视角转变的关键时刻。

And that's kind of where it's kind of that perspective shift, that moment.

别人能从中学到的最重要的东西到底是什么？

Like, what is the big takeaway that somebody can can take from that?

现在插播一段短暂的广告，马上回来。

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

我是《The Futur》的制作人里奇，我们稍作休息，因为克里斯有个特别想传达的消息。

This is Rich, the producer of The Futur, and we're gonna take a quick break because Chris has a message he desperately wants to get out.

就是这个。

And that is this.

你每天发帖，就会离真实的自己更远一点。

Every day you post, you disappear a little more.

你回头读一遍自己的文案，会觉得这话说谁都能说。

You read your caption back and you think this could be anyone.

这才是真正残酷的真相。

Here's the actual brutal truth.

你越想融入，就越难脱颖而出。

The more you try and fit in, the less you stand out.

克里斯在打造这家价值数百万美元的创意公司过程中，花了二十年才明白这一点。

Chris learned this after twenty years building a multimillion dollar creative business.

他承认，过去好多年里，他一直谨小慎微。

And for years, he'll admit he played it safe.

说话专业、包装完美，跟别人一模一样，直到他决定停下。

Professional, polished, sounding just like everyone else, and then he stopped.

他是个得过奖的设计师，同时也热爱街头服饰。

He's an award winning designer who also loves streetwear.

他是个CEO，却会在商业会议上引用嘻哈歌词。

He's a CEO who quotes hip hop in business meetings.

他是个教育者，敢直接指出行业的虚伪做派。

He's an educator who isn't afraid to call out industry BS.

所以当他不再试图模仿别人时，一切都变了。

So when he stopped trying to be everyone else, everything changed.

他打造了一个八位数的事业，吸引了全球十万名学员，客户愿意支付高价，从不还价。

He built the future to 8 figures, a 100,000 students worldwide, and clients who pay premium prices without negotiating.

不是因为他变成了别人，而是因为他终于更真实地做回了自己。

Not because he became someone else, because he finally became more of himself.

Content Lab 就是 Chris 教你如何做到这一点的地方。

Content Lab is where Chris teaches you to do the same thing.

每月两次与 Chris 一起的直播小组辅导，AI 系统完全训练自他的方法论，还有 52 个写作提示，帮你挖掘最打动人心的故事。

Live group coaching with Chris twice a month, AI trained on his entire methodology, 52 writing prompts to excavate your best stories.

别再随波逐流，开始脱颖而出。

Stop blending in, start standing out.

访问 thefuture.com，点击右上角的 Content Lab，立即加入。

Visit thefuture.com and click Content Lab in the upper right corner to join today.

直接链接会在节目笔记里提供。

Direct link will be located in the show notes.

还有，丽贝卡，欢迎你回到我们的对话。

And, Rebecca, welcome back to our conversation.

所以，你知道，当我看到的不是科南的时候。

So, you know, when I see it's not Conan.

是的。

Yeah.

有时候是科南或者吉米·金莫尔，他们以前会去街头采访路人，然后问一些傻乎乎的问题。

Sometimes it's Conan or Jimmy Kimmel when they used to do the person on the street and then go out there and then ask silly questions.

有时候他们会带个名人一起，聊对方的电影，但不让对方知道那个采访的人其实是演员。

Sometimes they bring a famous person with them, like and they'll talk about their movie, not letting them know that's the actor or actress.

没错。

Yep.

这还挺搞笑的。

And it's kinda hilarious.

就是，没错。

Like, yeah.

她还行。

She's alright.

然后看看演员怎么应对，还挺有意思的。

And then it it's kind of interesting to see how the actor responds to that.

是的。

Yeah.

他们其实被高估了，你能看到他们不一样的一面。

They're overrated, and you get to see a different side of personality.

我觉得就在于它的不可预测性。

I think it's the unpredictability of it.

现在问题就来了。

And now here becomes the problem.

到目前为止，我一直比较保守。

Thus far, I played it safe.

我去参加了VidCon。

Went to VidCon.

有些人认识我。

Some people know me.

我就过去跟他们搭话，那些最早的三四个视频就是这么拍的。

I just started talking to them, and those are the first three or four pieces of content.

我好像从来没像你那样，主动去跟完全陌生的人搭话，也许我真该试试。

I don't think I've actually come up to a total random stranger like you did, and maybe that's what I need to do.

你觉得怎么样？

What do you think about that?

我觉得你没必要非这么做。

I don't think you need to do it.

我觉得在活动或者类似场合里做，效果还是不错的。找完全陌生的人，确实更有不可预测性，但你得挨个去试，得接触很多人。

I think that if you wanna do it at events or things of that nature can still work, Random strangers, there is more of that unpredictability to it, but, again, you're gonna have to go through a lot of people.

我们定下的这个定位和你提的问题本身就很有力量，我觉得在活动里做完全没问题。

The position that we came up with and the questions you're asking is so strong that I think you can still do it at events.

但我建议你试试主动去接近对方。

But what I would recommend testing is approaching the person.

这样是从现场互动开始，而不是一上来就两个人对着镜头说话。

So there's initial movement into the situation versus just starting with the two of you on screen.

就算对方知道你会走过去，也没关系。就像你说的，我们有个客户是厨师，他得提前安排好，因为他的节目模式就是先问别人最爱吃什么，然后回家做出来，再送回去。

Even if you know the person the person knows you're gonna come up to them, Because, like you said, there's some people like, we have we have a client that is a chef, and he has to set this up ahead of time because his whole format is he asks people what their favorite meal is, and then he goes home and cooks it and brings it back to them.

这种形式得提前设计，但我觉得你主动走过去这个动作，反而能增加更多张力。

So that has to be scripted, but I would say that that initial movement into it of you approaching the person creates even more tension into it.

不错。

Good.

我们马上要发布一个从一开始就充满张力的视频，这正是我们想做的。

We're about to drop one with some tension right up front, and that's what we're thinking too.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

但我觉得你其实没必要这么做，因为你的切入点已经非常有力了。

But I don't I wouldn't say that you have to do it because I think your hook is so strong.

不知道你有没有听说过罗布·摩尔？

I don't know if you know Rob Moore.

他是英国一个很有影响力的人，做了一个叫《颠覆者》的热门播客，他做的事就跟我们刚才说的类似，只不过他专门问别人欠了多少钱。

He's a big UK influencer, has a big podcast called Disruptors, but he's gonna do what we were talking about it, but his thing is, like, asking people how much debt they're in.

你看，这种问题本身就会制造出一种极具争议的紧张感。

So, like, that, again, there's that polarizing tension building question with it.

一旦有了这种张力，内容本身就能撑得住。

And when you have that, then it can hold on its own.

你不一定非得跑到外面去搞那种极端的场面。

You don't necessarily have to go into the wild that way.

你之前还提到过，那种尴尬感其实反而增强了节目的可看性和紧张感。

Something else you mentioned, there's some awkwardness that builds in the watchability, the tension.

我不是说我不尴尬，但我是不是该表现得更尴尬一点？

I'm not saying I'm not awkward, but should I be more awkward?

不用。

No.

你得做真实的自己。

You should be authentic.

别故意那样做。

Don't do it on purpose.

因为我们都是专业的内容观众。

Because, again, we're professional content consumers.

我们在潜意识里能察觉到很多东西，别人一眼就能看出来你是不是在演戏。

We're picking up on so much on a subconscious level that people can pick up if you're overacting and things like that.

我想你知道我刚才想说的是谁。

I think you know who I was gonna refer to.

对吧？

Right?

不对。

No.

那个行业内定的女生？

The industry plant girl?

哦。

Oh.

就是那个采访过导演的。

The one who in interviewed a director.

对。

Yeah.

鲍比什么的。

Bobby something.

对。

Yeah.

大家都会怀疑，这会不会是装出来的？

Where people like, is this an act?

没错。

And Yeah.

她完全沉浸在角色里了。

She's deep in character.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

问了一堆怪问题。

Asking the weirdest questions.

我不认识她。

Don't know her.

我还没见过她。

I haven't met her.

我觉得她天性有点拘谨，不过她确实把这事儿干得挺棒，效果也很好。

I think she's awkward in nature, but, again, she did a great job with it, and it worked.

我觉得她现在不这么做了。

I don't think she's doing it anymore.

我觉得对大多数人来说，这根本做不到。

I just recommend for most people, they can't pull it off.

如果你是受过专业训练的演员，那另当别论。

Like, if you're a trained actor, then sure.

你尽管试试。

Go for it.

但我觉得你提到的这些，怎么制造更多尴尬、更多张力，关键在于你怎么推动人们去重新思考：他们每小时该收多少钱，自己值多少钱。

But I think that the terms of what you're talking about, how do you create more awkwardness, more tension, it's going to be how you push people, how you push people to kind of think differently around how much money or how much they charge for per hour or how much they charge value themselves.

就像西蒙·斯奎布那样做。

It's like put like, Simon Squibb does it.

你的梦想是什么？

Like, what is your dream?

他在逼问：你为什么不做这件事？

He's pushing, like, why aren't you doing this?

你为什么不做这件事？

Why aren't you doing this?

你可以这么做，这么做，再这么做。

Like, you could do this, this, this, and this.

他一直在质问他。

He keeps challenging him.

这种质问制造了那种尴尬和紧张的氛围，你也可以用同样的方式去做。

That challenge creates that tension in that awkward moment, and you could do the same with that.

你为什么只收这么点钱？

Well, why are you only charging that much?

你为什么会这么想？

Why are you thinking about that?

与其质疑他们收多少钱，不如问问他们：为什么对自己的价值这么低估？

Like, challenging less about the money that they're charging and more about why are you valuing yourself so little?

我们接着往这个方向聊。

Let's continue down that path.

我一开始的打算根本不是要说服谁，只是带着好奇去探索。

My intention going in was never to convince anybody if anything, just to approach it with a lot of curiosity.

有人就说，哦，我是个拿工资的打工人。

So somebody's like, oh, I'm a salary woman.

我嘛，觉得这也没什么不好。

I don't I'm like, that's cool by me.

我根本没想去挑战他，因为我跟西蒙聊过这个。

I'm not even challenging him because I talked to Simon about this.

他说，克里斯，你打算去教育别人吗？

He goes, Chris, are you gonna educate people?

你打算这么做吗？

Are gonna do this?

我觉得这不是我的方式，因为我并不想强加什么观点给别人。

I don't think that's my approach because I don't really want to force an agenda on people.

好像非得让每个人都辞职、退学、去创业才行，可有时候这可能导致彻底的失败。

Like, clearly wants everyone to quit their job, quit school, and start their business, And sometimes they could totally have catastrophic failure.

这并不是我想推动的方向。

That's not what I'm interested in.

我只是对这个人怎么看这个想法感到好奇。

It's like, I'm just curious about the person and their take on that idea.

如果他们说，我不按小时收费，挺好；或者我按小时收费，觉得这点钱多或少，我就让他们自由表达自己的想法。

So if they're like, I don't charge by hour, great, or I charge by hour, I or think this is a little bit of money or a lot, I just try to, like, let them say what they want to say.

我确实不觉得你需要强加什么观点，但我还想给你提供一点不同的视角。

So I definitely don't think you need to push an agenda, but I wanna give you kind of a little bit perspective on the difference.

我们来看看‘现实学校’和西蒙·斯奎布的情况。

Let let's look at, like, school of hard knocks and Simon Squibb.

西蒙·斯奎布就是这么做的。

So Simon Squibb does exactly that.

他会问别人：你的梦想是什么？然后给出建议，帮助他们实现这个梦想。

He asks somebody a question, what is your dream, to direct them with advice on helping them pursue that dream.

‘现实学校’会去找那些非常成功的人，问他们：你是怎么赚到第一百万的？

The school of hard knocks approaches very successful people, asks, how did you make your first million dollars?

你是怎么成功的？

How did you become successful?

西蒙之所以有这么强的品牌影响力和认知度，是因为他把自己的建议和专业知识融入其中，而‘逆境学校’则不然——这绝对不是在贬低逆境学校。

There is a massive difference in the brand relationship and the brand recognition that Simon has because he's kinda putting his advice, his knowledge into the equation versus the School of Hard Knocks, and this is nothing against School of Hard Knocks.

他们做得非常出色。

They've done an Is amazing

是个年轻人吗？

it a young guy?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我好像看过他的内容。

I think I've seen his content.

没错。

Yeah.

但他只是在采访他们。

But he's just interviewing them.

没错。

Right.

所以这种模式能打造的品牌上限是有限的。

A So ceiling

关于能靠这种方式建立的品牌来说。

to kinda the brand that can be built with that.

现在他靠着自己的课程和社群已经挺成功了，但如果能把他的专业见解或个人品牌更深度地融入进去，整体效果还能再上一个台阶。

Now, he's being successful with his school community and things of that nature, but if he was able to insert his expertise or his brand more into it, it would elevate overall what he's doing.

所以关键就在这儿——两种方式都能成功：一种是单纯旁观，只负责提问、当个访谈者；另一种是主动参与，把自己的东西放进去。你就看看你的播客就知道了。

So that's the difference is and you can do it both ways, and you're be successful, is you can be a passive just observer of this interaction of just asking the questions and being the interviewer versus inserting yourself, and that's also like you look at your podcast.

你可不是光坐着问问题而已。

Like, you don't just sit and ask questions.

你在这对话里不断输出自己的观点和独到见解，正因如此，才能带来实际的商业成果。

You provide your perspective, your unique insight through that conversation, and that's why it generates business results and things of that nature.

顶级播客主持人也是这样，比如史蒂文·巴特利特、乔·罗根、莱克·弗里德曼。

I mean, it's the same thing with the biggest podcasters, like like Steven Bartlett and Joe Rogan and Lex Friedman.

他们可不是光坐在那儿提问题。

They're not just sitting there asking questions.

他们会把自己的观点融入进去，正因如此，听众才和他们建立了这么强的品牌联结。

They're inserting their perspective on situations, and that's why there's such a a strong brand relationship with them.

这样说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我处在中间位置。

I think I'm somewhere in the middle.

我不是单纯的被动采访者，我也明白为什么。

I'm not just a passive interviewer, and I understand why

我觉得你完全不是。

think you are at all.

对。

Yeah.

那个年轻人得这么做，因为他之前没做过。

That the the young guy has to do that because he hasn't done that.

所以这很合理。

So it makes sense.

对吧？

Right?

西蒙爱西蒙。

Where Simon love Simon.

我并不总是认同他劝别人去创业的做法。

I don't always love that he's trying to tell people to start a business.

这不是对所有人都公平。

That's not fair everybody.

我明白你的意思。

I I understand that.

很有力量。

Strong.

你明白吧？

You know?

其实我也不是那样的人。

It's like, that's not me either.

但我知道，如果你没有自己的声音或观点，那就会完全被别人主导，你自己反而被边缘化了。

But I understand, like, the insertion, the connective tissue, if you don't have a voice or a perspective, then it becomes about the other person, and you kinda disappear and all that.

我也不会这么做。

And I'm not doing that either.

我觉得不是这样。

I don't think.

明白了。

Okay.

这个视角很好。

Good perspective.

所以如果你倾向于让街头采访的对象保持性别中立，那就得想想怎么设计那个切入点。

So if you are of the type that wants to do the person on the street to kinda keep it gender neutral, think about the hook.

这个问题得特别有分量。

It's gotta be a really good question.

它得带着明确的意图。

It's gotta have built intention.

得足够开放，才能听到不同的回答，就像《阿甘正传》那样。

There has to be enough kind of open endedness to it that we're gonna hear different responses, and each it's like, you know, Forrest Gump.

人生就像一盒巧克力。

Life's like a box of chocolates.

你永远不知道下一颗是什么味道。

You never know what you're gonna get.

然后顺着这个线索深入下去，还得留一个能让观众产生共鸣的点。

And and then to follow that down whatever rabbit hole and just to make sure that there's a a part where the audience can connect with that.

有情感，让他们能联想到自己的生活。

There's an emotion, and they can reflect on their own lives.

我到底值多少钱？

What am I worth?

或者，我为什么不去追求自己的梦想？

Or why aren't I pursuing my dream?

然后，最后结果怎么样了？

And then to kind of what was the end of it?

你刚才已经提到过这一点了。

Like, you you had already said this.

我觉得得有一些

Like, there needs to be some

得有一个瞬间，或者视角上的转变。

There needs to be, like, an moment or perspective shift with it.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得另一点是，这不只适用于街头采访。

I think one of the other things and this is not just with man on the street.

我们讨论的很多内容其实适用于各种形式，但大多数人只关注开头的吸引力，而这确实至关重要。

A lot of the things that we're talking about are applied to many different formats, but most people only focus on the initial hook, which is critically important.