141. David Goggins — Learn How to Master Your Mind, Become Disciplined & Stay Grounded

你已经跑了那么多里程了。

You put so many miles in.

你早就把这一切在脑子里演练过无数遍了。

You visualized all this.

这条赛道你不知跑过多少回了。

You've you've run this course a million times.

可你现在却躲在厕所里，像个懦夫一样自怨自艾，还骗陪跑员说她拉肚子了。

And now you're in a fucking porta potty like a little fucking bitch, whining and crying to yourself, lying to your pacer that she got a shit.

说白了，就是戈金斯冲进我身体，把那个软弱的我捅了个对穿，然后他自己从厕所里走了出来。

So basically what happened was Goggins got ahold of me and knifed David Goggins and stuck them in that porta potty and Goggins came out.

戈金斯现身时，还剩四十英里，整个赛程将近二百四十英里——那是我参加过的最震撼的终点时刻。

And when Goggins came out with 40 miles to go over two forty mile run, It was the most epic ending of any race.

最后那四十英里，我到现在都找不到词来形容。

I can remember that last 40 miles was something that I can't even describe.

但我想告诉你的是，这再次证明了，坚定的意志能创造怎样的奇迹。

But what I will tell you is once again, it shows you what the determined mind can do.

根本没什么大卫·戈金斯，就戈金斯。

There's no David Goggins, Goggins.

就只有那个该死的大卫·戈金斯。

There's just David fucking Goggins.

这事儿别人就是不明白，哥们。

And that's what people don't get, man.

大卫·戈金斯就是在那个厕所里彻底改了他自己的心态。

David Goggins just changed his fucking mindset in that porta potty.

我的脚还是疼。

My feet still hurt.

我的背还是酸。

My back was still aching.

背包还是那么沉。

The pack was still heavy.

一切都没变。

Everything was the same.

唯一改变的，是我对待这件事的态度。

The only thing that changed was how I approached the situation.

我不再想当这场赛跑的受害者，也不想在心里把自己当成受害者。

I no longer wanted to be a victim of that race, a victim in my mind.

在别人都不敢拼的时候，我偏要拼到底。

I wanted to dominate when most people would refuse to dominate.

我就是要在最恶劣的环境下，依然强势出击。

I wanted to dominate under the most harsh environment.

结果就是这样发生了。

And that's what happened.

你的配速员迈克，你说他是位‘狂人’，对吧？

And your pacer, Mike, I mean, you you describe him as a fellow savage.

他看到你出来的时候，是怎么反应的？

What was his response to this when he said when he saw you come out?

嗯，他其实已经熟悉我了，大概有一两个小时吧。

Well, you know, he was used to me for about a period of an hour and a half, two hours.

就装成个小混混似的。

Just be like a little punk.

我走路、跑步，还稍微往前倾着身子。

I would walk, I would run, I would kind of lean over.

我一出来，他根本不知道我是那个大卫·戈金斯。

When I came out, he didn't know the David Goggins Goggins thing.

我之前跟他说过这事。

I had talked to him about that.

我体内还藏着另一个人。

There's a, another person that lies deep with inside me.

所以我一开跑，他简直不敢相信我居然把陪跑的甩在了后面。

So when I started running, he couldn't believe that I started dropping my pacer.

你想想看。

Think about this.

我已经跑了两百英里了。

I'm 200 miles in.

不睡了，脚踝都伤了。

No, no sleep breaks, fucked up ankle.

他知道我状态糟透了。

And he knows I'm jacked up.

那个陪我跑了大概六七十英里的人。

And this guy who has run, I think about sixty, seventy miles with me at the time.

他那时候已经跑了两百英里了。

He was on 200 miles into this.

当你开始甩开一个家伙，而他知道你是个狠人，跑过好几场超级耐力赛。

When you start dropping a guy and he knows he's a savage, he's run several ultra races.

他清楚跑到两百英里时人有多崩溃。

He knows how broke a man is at 200 miles.

我每英里跑七分钟，兄弟。

I'm throwing down seven minute miles, man.

我把他远远甩在后面了。

And I'm leaving him.

我知道他在想什么，因为他是个狠角色。

I know what he's thinking about because I know he's a savage.

我知道我打算怎么对付迈克。

And I know what I'm trying to do to Mike.

我把迈克当成了终极武器，两个狠人之间，谁都清楚对方已经跑了两百英里。

I'm using Mike as the ultimate ammunition because two savages and one savage knows that the other savage has gone 200 miles.

我现在正在彻底碾压这家伙。

I'm fucking with this guy now.

我把他的状态当成了我的动力。

I'm using him as fuel.

我利用他的愤怒，他的怨恨。

I'm using his anger, his hate.

他现在恨透了我。

He's mad at me now.

他更恨他自己。

He's mad at himself.

我在利用它。

I'm using it.

这小子是我朋友，但我还是在用他。

This is my boy, but I'm using him.

我正拖着这摊事。

I'm dragging that shit.

我希望他生我的气，这样他才能激出我最好的一面。

I want him to be mad at me so he can bring the best out of me.

事情就是这样发展的。

And that's what happens.

他生气了。

He's mad.

我们终于到了这座该死的山坡底，维克直接坐下来，掏出手机。

So we get down to the end of this fucking hill, Vic just sit down and he's like, he gets on the phone.

他给老婆打了电话。

He calls his wife.

他给我女朋友珍妮弗打电话了。

He calls my fucking girl, Jennifer.

他把自己的奖金搞丢了。

He's losing his check.

这他妈是怎么回事？

What the fuck?

他说，这人直接把我撂那儿了。

He's like, this guy just fucking dropped me.

他简直气疯了。

He's literally out of his mind.

他根本不敢相信自己看到的。

He can't believe what he saw.

从那以后，接下来大概十五英里，直到下一个检查点，真正的比赛其实已经结束了，虽然表面上还在继续。

And then from then on man, the next probably 15 miles or so before the next checkpoint, the real race was gone, even though it was still going on.

就剩下我和迈克了。

It was me and Mike.

那儿有两个家伙，几乎没怎么说话，就埋头拼命跑。

And there was two guys out there, barely talking, just going at it.

那正是我想要的。

And that's what I wanted.

那也是迈克心里想的。

And that's what Mike was thinking.

他从来没跟我明说他到底在想什么。

He never told me really what he was thinking.

他用行动告诉我，你到底是怎么做到的？

He showed me how the fuck are you able to do this.

我把他惹毛了。

And I pissed him off.

但那场面太棒了。

And it was beautiful.

就像你亲眼看到别人做一件事，它的意义远超过别人告诉你这件事。

It's like when you when you see someone do something, it it means more than when someone tells you something.

我知道在《不能伤害我》这本书里，你提到过‘夺取灵魂’这个概念。

And and I know in in Can't Hurt Me, you talk about the concept of taking souls.

我不确定你当时是不是想夺走迈克的灵魂，但如果你能解释一下这个概念到底是什么意思。

I'm not sure you you were trying to take Mike's soul in that moment, but if you could describe what that concept means.

差不多就是那样。

It's kinda like that.

‘夺取灵魂’的基本意思就是，当普通人处在你那种境地时，早就垮了。

So the basic of taking souls is when the normal human being being in the situation that you're in would be defeated.

而那些在那种情况下，普通人本该被击垮的人，却能撑下来。

And the person or people with you know that in that situation, normal human being would be defeated in that situation.

你超越了普通人的极限。

And you rise above the normal human being.

这样一来，周围的人都会觉得自己不如你，于是你就占有了他们的一部分灵魂——这其实是我在经历海豹突击队训练时体会到的。

So it makes all the people around you feel lesser than therefore you own a part of their soul because in that moment, I got it from going through Navy SEAL training.

我看到那些海豹突击队教官，他们自己熬过了地狱周，现在又把我们这一批人推入地狱周。

I watched all those Navy SEAL instructors who had gone through hell week and now they're putting me in my class through hell week.

我一直在观察他们，因为大家都清楚，到了星期三，所有人都撑不住了。

I'm watching all of them because they all know at Wednesday, we're all defeated.

星期三那天，每个人都是崩溃的，但我知道内情。

Everybody's fucked up on Wednesday and it's Wednesday, but I got the information.

我知道你星期三那天在哪儿，也知道你心里在想什么。

I know where you were on Wednesday and I know what you're thinking.

我本该和你们一样，经历那个星期三。

I should be at Wednesday.

我本该和你们一样，累到彻底垮掉。

I should be as fucked up as you are.

但我不会让你如愿。

I'm not going to give you that.

我要让你看看，星期三对我意味着什么。

I'm going to show you what Wednesday is for me.

对我来说的星期三，和你们的星期三完全不一样。

Wednesday for me is not Wednesday for you.

所以我那时候一发力，就看到教官们的表情，我简直强得离谱。

And so when I did that, I saw the instructors faces when I was strong as fuck.

那时候我已经熬到地狱周的第80、90个小时了。

I was at hour eighty, ninety of hell week.

但我感觉就像才刚起步一样。

I was like at minute one.

仿佛地狱周才刚刚开始。

It was like hell week had just started.

你凭什么因为别人不懂你是在怎样的精神状态、怎样的寒冷和痛苦中做到这些，就否定他们的价值？当你在别人撑不住的时候还能突破极限，真正聪明的人会看在眼里，然后被你带动起来。

So why do you take someone's soul because they don't know how you're able to do this at that state of mind, that state of being in that kind of cold and misery, but you find more when no one else can a smart human being will see that and you will elevate them.

我就是这么对待我的船员的。

And that's what I did to my boat crew.

我那些船员当时都快垮了，但他们看到了我的蜕变。

My boat crew was fucked up, but they saw my elevation.

于是他们说：操，这人能做到的事，别人也一定能做到。

So they said, fuck, if this guy can do what one man can do, another can do.

于是他们自己也提升了。

So they elevated themselves.

但随着我的船员们提升起来，我注意到其他人全都一脸懵：这到底发生啥了？

But as my boat crew elevated, I saw that everybody else was like, what the fuck is going on?

于是我们把所有那些消极的表情、怀疑的眼神、满腹疑问，全都转化成了新的动力。

And so we used all of that ammunition, all those sad long faces, all of that, like questioning what the fuck.

我们把这些东西当成了更强大的燃料。

And we used it for even more ammunition.

夺走别人的信心，就是把自己扔进大多数人撑不下去的环境里，然后你反而在其中活得更好。

So taking souls is when you put yourself in an environment that most people won't succeed in and you thrive in that environment.

现在有意思的是，我觉得一个人看到这一切，看到你实际的样子，确实会被激励。

Now, now it's interesting because I think one person could see all this and see you in action and feel inspired.

但还有一类人，他们的反应恰恰相反——就像你在书里提到的，有些人跟你在一起会感到不安，觉得被评判了，其实并不是这样。

And And then there's a whole another set of people that kinda have the opposite effect in the sense that, you know, in the book you talk about sometimes people feel uncomfortable around you because they feel judged, which is not true.

你根本没有评判他们，是他们在评判自己。

You're not judging them, but really they're judging themselves.

我跟你说实话啊，兄弟。

I'll tell you the truth, man.

我以前真是个一团糟的人。

I was a fucked up person.

我遇到过很多问题。

I had a lot of problems.

但该认的功劳我一定认。

But I'm gonna give credit where credit's due.

你要是像我这么拼，别人嘴上不信，心里其实都明白。

When you work as hard as I do and people don't want to believe it, but they know it's true.

他们心里清楚得很。

They know it's true.

我就是这么说话的。

It's how I talk.

我就是长这副样子。

It's how I look.

你看看人的眼睛就知道了，我根本没在骗你。

It's a looking in a person's eye, you know, it's my fucking bullshitting you.

你心里尽管怀疑我撒谎，但你明明知道这 guy 是真材实料。

So you can think I'm lying all you up in the back of your mind, you fucking know this guy's the real deal.

我一靠近你，就像个活体测谎仪。

So when I get around you, I'm like a fucking lie detector.

我没点破你。

I'm not calling you out.

我也没说一句话，但你一靠近我，就像在沙滩上走过金属探测器那样。

I'm not saying a word, but the second you start to get close to me, like those metal detectors, you get that metal detector on the beach.

你一走过去，探测器就响了，挖出来一只手表。

You find that watch in the sand.

我对人就是这样，真的。

That's what I am with people, man.

他们一靠近我，就立刻明白自己哪儿不对劲。

They get around me and they know what they're not doing.

他们知道自己有多敷衍。

They know how hard they're not trying.

我让他们暴露出最差的一面，因为他们心里清楚，根本不用我说什么，他们就开始自我批判了。

And I bring out the worst in them because they know that God, man, they start to judge themselves without me even saying a word.

他们会重新审视自己的一生，意识到自己做得还不够。

They start to go through their own resume of life and start realizing I'm not doing enough.

我真的做得不够。

I haven't done enough.

这反过来让他们对我，或者任何努力工作的人，产生强烈的愤怒。

And what that does in turn is it makes them very angry at me or whoever is working hard.

不管是谁在他们身边拼命努力，他们都会立刻讨厌那个人，因为他们知道你所拥有的一切都是靠努力换来的，而他们自己却根本不愿付出。

Whoever that hardworking person is that they get around, they're immediately not gonna like you because they know that you're working hard for everything you have, and they just refuse to do that.

所以他们唯一能做的，就是嘴上说说，背后贬低你。

So the only thing best to do is run their fucking mouth and talk shit about it.

人们总爱说他们身边有各种唱反调的、批评的、讨厌他们的人。

People always talk about they've got naysayers and critics and haters and so on.

但你看看。

But look.

你随便点开自己发的任何一段视频。

You can look at any of the videos you post online.

就去看看下面的评论。

Just look in the comments.

全都在那儿呢。

They're all there.

你提到一个办法，能把这些负面声音转化成动力，就是所谓的‘喷子歌单’。

And you talk about a strategy that you've used to actually turn this into energy, the the haters mixtape.

什么叫‘喷子歌单’？

What is the haters mixtape?

其实，我年轻的时候，这些话真的会让我很不舒服。

So, basically, when I was younger, things used to bother me.

恶意评论谁都受不了。

Hate bothers everybody.

人们总说这不影响他们，但实际上很影响。

People wanna say it doesn't bother them, but it does.

当有人跑到网上，用不真实的话，或者随便怎么诋毁你，你知道的，他们就是想这么干。

When someone wants to get on there and and and talk about you in a way that's not truthful or just talk shit about you in whatever way, you know, they want to.

我一直在研究人性，但我的研究大多是从观察自己的内心开始，再延伸到理解别人的心理。

I started realizing, so I'm always about studying the mind, but most of my studying, it comes on studying my own mind, but studying other people's minds.

很长一段时间我都想不通，为什么这些人总爱说这么多坏话？

So for the longest time, was like, man, why are people talking so much shit?

但当我开始研究那些内心软弱的人，你就再也不会听到我背后议论别人了。

But once I started studying the mind of the weak, you'll never hear me talking about somebody else.

真正成功的人，从来不会说别人的坏话。

You'll never hear a successful person talking negatively.

他们可能会提建议，但那些建议是为了帮你进步。

They may give criticism, but it's criticism to help you get better.

他们绝不会张口就骂人，满嘴脏话。

They'll never just go on and start all this motherfucker, man.

因为我们没时间浪费在这种事上。

Because we ain't got time for that shit.

我没空去翻你的Instagram、Twitter、Facebook或者博客，然后对你指手画脚。

I ain't got time to go on your Instagram or your Twitter or your Facebook or your blog or anything and run my mouth about you.

首先，这说明我根本不够格。

First of all, it shows I'm not a man.

其次，这说明我就是个爱抱怨的人。

Second of all, it shows I'm just a bitch.

于是我开始研究这些弱者——那些网络喷子、嘴上不饶人的人、整天黑别人的人。

So I started studying these motherfucking weak people who these trolls, these shit talker, these haters.

我心里想，你现在的状态，不就是几年前的我吗？

I'm like, man, you're exactly where I was years ago.

我越研究，越明白，问题根本不在我自己。

So the more I studied and the more I realized, man, the problem's not me.

这也不是什么励志校园剧。

And this isn't the after school special, man.

我不是来让你感觉好受点的。

I'm not here to make you feel better.

这不过是实话而已。

It's just the truth.

你永远遇不到一个比你过得还好的喷子，朋友。

You'll never meet a hater doing better than you, my friend.

这确实是实话。

And that is the truth.

所以我把这一切糟心事全收下来，把所有的恶意都接住。

So what I do is I take all of that shit and I get all the hate.

我拿起手机，对着它说话。

I get my phone and I talk into it.

别人怎么说我的，我都对着手机说出来。

What everybody said about me, I'll talk into it.

后来我就开始觉得这事儿挺有意思的。

So then I started having fun with it.

我开始给它配上节奏，各种曲子，Eminem的背景音乐，什么都用。

I started putting beats to it, different tracks to it, Eminem soundtracks, whatever.

然后我就循环播放。

Started putting on a loop.

等我反应过来，嘿，这玩意儿简直太带感了。

And next before I know it, man, I'm like, this shit's kind of fucking bad ass.

有谁会把别人骂自己的内容收集起来，还专门听呢？

Who the fuck gets their haters content that are talking about yourself and I listen to it.

不知不觉，这反而成了我最强的动力，虽然我根本不是按他们想的方式去听的。

And before I know it, it becomes the ultimate fuel even though I'm not listening to their shit that way.

每当我感觉需要更狠地激励自己时，它就给我点燃一把火——真想让那些人更恨我一点。

It just gives me a spark on those days when I'm like, I want these motherfuckers to hate me even more.

那些黑粉追着你，比谁都紧。

The haters follow you like a motherfucker.

他们对你的了解，甚至超过你妈。

They know more about you than your mama knows about you.

他们把你的所有书都翻了个遍。

They get all your books.

你的所有播客他们也都听过。

They get all your podcast.

你的社交媒体他们全盯得死死的。

Get all your social media.

他们知道你住哪儿。

They know where you live.

他们知道你睡哪儿。

They know where you sleep.

他们对你了如指掌。

They know everything about you.

我知道了，也得让你知道这事，朋友。

Me knowing that I'm gonna let you know about this too, my friend.

我再给你点料，让你更恨我，也更讨厌你自己。

I'm gonna give you some more fuel to hate on me, man, for you to not like yourself even more.

所以这一切的根源就在这儿。

So that's that's where all that comes from.

嗯，大卫，我挺好奇的。

Well, well, David, I'm curious.

你的第一本书《不能击垮我》一出来，立刻就登上了畅销榜，成了《纽约时报》畅销书。

So with the first book, Can't Hurt Me, immediately goes to the top of the charts, New York Times bestseller.

那时候，我记得米歇尔·奥巴马的书也正好出版。

Around the time, I think, Michelle Obama's book came out.

后来你是不是故意这么干的？几年后，米歇尔·奥巴马又出了一本新书，就在你那本《从未完成》刚发布的时候，结果——

And then I don't know if you meant to do this again, but you fast forward a few years later, Michelle Obama comes out with a second book right around the time, never finished releases, and boom.

又一次冲上了畅销榜榜首。

Again, once again at the top of the charts.

从第一本书到第二本书之间，你的生活有什么变化？毕竟，大卫·戈金斯已经家喻户晓了，经济上也完全不用发愁了。

How did life change for you between the first book and the second book, just from the standpoint that David Goggins becomes a household name, financially, you know, you're you're taken care of.

你开始想，那股动力到底从哪儿来呢？

You you kinda look at things in terms of, like, where's the motivation coming from then?

我可能用词不太准确，其实更应该是自律，但你功成名就之后，那份渴望和激情到底从哪儿来？

And I probably used the wrong word because it's probably discipline, but where's the desire and that fire coming from after, you know, you've achieved all this success?

就像我开头说的，很多人都以为我就是个疯子般的战士。

Like I said in the beginning, a lot of people think that I'm just some fucking warrior.

觉得我整天做俯卧撑、仰卧起坐、跑步。

Some guy that does push ups and sit ups and runs.

他们完全想错了。

They got it so wrong.

他们真的完全误解了，真的。

They got it so wrong, man.

我真正的实力，其实来自心智的自律。

Like most of my true ability comes from the discipline of mind.

我所有的动力都来自这一点——人们总把我归到某一类人里。

And that's where my motivation was is that most people put me in a category.

他们根本不知道我还能写出深刻、有思想的书，能让人哭、让人笑、让人心里五味杂陈。

They didn't know the side of me that can write deep thoughtful books and give people things that can make you cry, make you happy, make you sad.

我能带你经历一种情绪。

I can bring you through an emotion.

我能在三页纸上给你十年的人生体验。

I can give you ten years of life within three pages.

我小时候觉得这简直太傻了。

For me, I grew up and I thought it was real stupid.

我觉得自己很笨。

I thought I was dumb.

我一直觉得自己读不懂、写不了这些事儿。

You know, I thought I couldn't read and write all these different things, man.

所以我现在的动力是，虽然我跑很多、锻炼很多，但这些就是我的课堂。

So the motivation for me now is that while I do run a lot and I do do a lot of working out, that's where I go to school.

这就是我的课堂，真的。

That's my school, man.

我在这里学习。

That's where I learn.

我思想的深度就来自这里。

That's where the deepness of my thought comes from.

我身上那种哲学气质，也是从这儿来的。

That's where the philosophical side of me comes from.

我所有的寓言故事，都源于此。

That's where all my parables come from.

我经常用《圣经》那样的语言说话，可别人根本想不到我有多深沉。

I speak in like Bible terms a lot of times and people don't understand how how deep I am.

当我跟米歇尔·奥巴马同台时，我是个自费出书的人，你知道吗？他们为了推她的书，花了一百多万美元。

So when I go up against a Michelle Obama and I'm a self published guy, you know, they spent over $1,000,000 trying to get Michelle Obama's book out there.

虽然两次我都不是故意要和米歇尔·奥巴马撞上，纯属巧合。

Even though I didn't choose to come out with Michelle Obama both times, it was by chance.

那是世界能量的安排。

It was the energy of the world.

我偏偏赶上了这个时代最有影响力的女人之一。

I come out with the one of the biggest women people of all time.

好了，别废话了。

Alright, motherfucker.

咱们开始吧。

Let's go.

你是个聪明又出色的女性。

You're a smart, brilliant woman.

这跟跑步、游泳、俯卧撑、仰卧起坐一点关系都没有。

This ain't got nothing to do with fucking running, swimming, push ups, sit ups.

真正让那些人没想到的是，我其实有他们以为我没有的智慧。

It's the intellectual side that motherfuckers thought I didn't have that I do have.

这就是我的动力。

That was the motivation.

我要跟写作领域最顶尖的人正面较量。

I'm going to go up against the best of the best in book writing.

而且我会比你更出色。

And I'm going to be better than you.

那就是我的动力。

That was the motivation.

在痛苦中孕育的创造力，那段我以为糟糕透顶的生活，其实是最好的磨炼。

The creative mind through the suffering, the life that I thought was horrible, but it was the ultimate training ground.

我学到的这些道理，不是来自斯坦福、耶鲁或普林斯顿。

The lessons I learned didn't come from Stanford or Yale or Princeton.

而是来自生活一次次的摔打。

They came from the hard knocks of life.

我拿的是生活摔打的文凭，兄弟。

I got a diploma in hard knocks, man.

所以现在，我是用这双磨出老茧的脑子在写作。

And so now I'm writing from the fucking calloused mind.

我不是在用耶鲁、普林斯顿、哈佛那些地方的精英思维，也不是靠跟一堆政治团体混日子来写东西。

I'm not writing from the Yale and Princeton's and Harbors and being with all these political groups and shit.

我是在奔向真实世界最残酷、最深沉的那片水域。

I'm running for real world deep savage deep end shit.

而最棒的是，当我面对这些顶尖的头脑、那些全世界都认识的杰出人物，而只有极少数人知道我的时候。

And the beauty of that, when I go up against these savage great minds, these great people who are smart and the whole world knows them, and just a fraction of people know me.

但每天清晨，当詹妮弗醒来时，我的书就摆在他们旁边。

But every day Jennifer wakes up, I'm looking right at them.

我的书就放在他们书的旁边。

My books right by them.

我没花一分钱做营销，也没在那些花里胡哨的事情上投过钱。

I put no money in the marketing, put no money in the shit.

我靠的只是坚韧、拼命努力，还有那种像军士杰克一样严苛自律的劲头，才走到今天。

It's just grit, hard work, and the sergeant Jack disciple of discipline shit that got me there.

所以那些觉得自己不够聪明、觉得自己可能做不到的人。

So all these motherfuckers who think they may be stupid, who think they may not be able to get it done.

我想对你们说点话。

I got something to tell you.

只要你愿意磨炼自己的心智，让自己变得坚韧，比他们更拼命、更深入挖掘，你就能和世界上最强的头脑一较高下。

You can compete with the top minds in the world if you're willing to armor and callous your fucking mind and outwork them motherfuckers and dig deep.

大多数人看到四面墙，我看到的却是一片广阔的空白，值得用各种创意去把它变得美轮美奂。

When most people see four walls, I see a massive empty space that deserves all kind of creativity to make it look beautiful.

太棒了。

I love it.

真的太棒了。

I love it.

大卫，你提到和对的人并肩作战有多重要。

And and David, you talk about the importance of having the right people in the foxhole with you.

你怎么判断谁才是对的人？

How do you know who the right people are?

你知道吗？

You know what?

这事儿其实花了很多年我才想明白。

That's that was something that should be a lot of years to figure out.

真正和你并肩作战的，就是那些对的人。

You know, you're the right people in your foxhole.

你凌晨三点起床，半夜才睡，没人问你这样搞是不是太拼了？

When you're waking up at 03:00 in the morning, you're going to bed at midnight and you're waking up at three and no one says, is this smart to do?

你得给自己放个假。

You need some time off.

你得歇一歇。

You need to take a break.

当我听到这些话的时候，明明知道自己在透支身体，可已经落后太多了。

When I started hearing that shit while I know what I'm doing to myself, I was behind the power curve, man.

别人上一年级的时候，我直接从负分开始。

Where everybody starts off in first grade, I had them negative grades.

我起步就在地狱里，得从坟墓里爬出来，才能拿到第一个及格分。

I started off in the fucking dungeon, but I had to dig out of the fucking damn grave to get the first grade.

现在你二十岁了，别人都高中毕业了，各种事儿都搞定了。

So now you're 20 years old, where everybody graduated high school and all this other shit, man.

我得把失去的时间补回来。

I got to make time up.

别人觉得二十四小时就是一天，对我来说却是三、四、五天。

So while people think twenty four hours is one day, for me it's three, four, five days.

我得把时间补回来。

I gotta make up time.

我落得太远了。

I'm behind.

我得在脑子里去上暑期班。

I gotta go to summer school in my mind.

当一个和我在一起的人意识到，这家伙得在脑子里补暑期班，还得赶进度的时候，

When a motherfucker who's with me realizes this motherfucker's gotta go to summer school in his mind, he's gotta make up time.

他一天得干二十二个小时，可别人轻轻松松就做到了。

He needs twenty two hours of the twenty four, and they just get it.

他正朝着某个目标拼命前进。

He's trying to go somewhere.

你才是我真正需要的战友。

You are the right person for my foxhole.

别跟我提什么休息的事儿。

I don't want to hear no shit about resting.

我现在没法休息。

I can't rest right now.

我不在乎别人怎么说我在糟蹋自己。

I don't hear no shit about what I'm doing to myself.

我自己清楚我在干什么。

I know what I'm doing to myself.

你看见我是怎么一路拼上来的了吗？

Did you see how I came up?

现在我得赶紧追上去。

I got to catch up now.

生活本来就是这么回事。

And that's what life is about.

有时候你从小就在起跑线上就落后了。

Sometimes you are raised in a position where you are behind.

我们必须把这段时间补回来。

We have to make that time up.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

这可能显得不近人情。

It may be inhumane.

你可能觉得你失衡了。

You may be unbalanced.

对你来说，这可能看着不对劲。

It may not look right to you.

我根本不介意。

I don't give a fuck.

是妻子把我逼到这个地步，我需要有人在我凌晨三点不想干的时候，看到我十二点就上床，然后三点把我叫醒，说：你得把这事儿搞定。

It's the situation that wife put me in and I need people to say, when I don't want to give at three in the morning, I need a motherfucker in my life that see me go to bed at twelve and wakes me up at three saying you need to get this shit done.

这才是真正的绝境。

That's the foxhole.

我不需要别人挑刺。

I don't need critiquing.

我需要有人推我一把。

I need pushing.

我需要有人拉我一把。

I need pulling.

我需要愤怒。

I need anger.

我需要激情。

I need passion.

我需要动力。

I need drive.

我需要那些混蛋，还有那些难熬的日子。

I need them motherfuckers, man, those bad days.

我不需要谁在我耳边说，哥们儿。

I don't need somebody in my ear saying, man.

因为那样的话，人所需要的就只是这些了。

Because then that's all a person needs is that.

支持的方式有很多种，老兄。

Support can go a lot of ways, man.

真的有好多不同的方式。

It can go a lot of ways.

你做的每一件事我都支持，你没做的事我也支持。

I support you in everything you do, and I support you in everything you don't do.

我不需要在你没做的事上给你支持。

I don't want the support in everything you don't do.

我只想一直支持你真正去做的事。

I need to support always the things that you do do.

就像你在书里说的，打仗的时候你没必要去擤鼻子、擦屁股。

And as you say in the book, you don't need to be blowing noses and wiping buttholes when you're in a firefight.

当然，长官。

No, sir.

是的，长官。

No, sir.

这是你的武器。

Here's your weapon.

这是你的弹药。

Here's your ammo.

那是你的位置，那是你的责任区。

And that's your corner, and that's your sector.

祝你顺利。

Have fun.

根据你描述的一切，你的生活简直像小说一样，甚至比小说还离奇。

From everything you've described, I mean, you you have the kind of life that it it's almost like fiction would have even been stranger.

你提到你不像《当幸福来敲门》里的威尔·史密斯，当你人生达到高峰时，总有什么事在转角等着你。

You talk about that you're not like Will Smith in the pursuit of happiness in the sense that when, you know, when when you hit a high point in your life, there's always something around the corner.

对吧？

Right?

那一切随时可能让你一无所有，从头再来。

That's that's all that's potentially gonna strip you down of everything and put you back to zero.

一直都是这样吗？

Has that always been the case?

一直都是，兄弟。

Always, man.

每当我成了那个手里举着旗子、正往珠穆朗玛峰上爬的人。

Whenever I am I'm that one person, man, who's like, has the flag in hand climbing Mount Everest.

我就快要把旗子插上顶峰了，这时候雪崩却来了。

And I am almost getting ready to stick that flag in hand and the avalanche comes.

每次都是这样，兄弟，真够糟的。

Every time, man, and it sucks.

但你得清楚自己为什么活在这世上，不管是不是真相。

But you have to know why you're here on Earth, whether it's the truth or not.

经过这么多年的生活，我真心觉得自己来到这世上，就是为了告诉人们怎么熬过黑暗时期。

Through a lot of years of living, I honestly believed I was put here to show people how to get through the dark times.

当你几乎要登顶，却永远无法真正到达时，需要什么样的心态才能熬过那些黑暗时刻？

What mindset it takes to get through the dark times when you've almost reached the pinnacle, but you never will.

你永远到不了顶峰，因为真正的领悟不在山顶上，朋友。

You never will just because the lessons aren't learned at the top of the mountain, my friend.

领悟发生在中途，发生在起点，永远不会在最顶端。

The lessons are learned in the middle, at the beginning, never at the very top.

所以我才变得这么有见识，真的。

So that's why I became so knowledgeable, man.

我从来没登上过山顶。

I never made it to the top of the mountain.

每次我快到了，都得重新爬回去。

And every time I almost did, I had to climb back up.

每次重新爬上去，那些道理就变得更清晰了。

Every time I climb back up, the lessons became more crystallized.

一切对我来说都变得明朗多了。

Everything became a lot more clear to me.

第一次爬的时候我错过的一些东西，第二次爬就抓住了，但这并不意味着你反复爬同一座山，就不是特别成功。

And then some of the things I missed in the first climb, I got on the second climb, but doesn't mean because you're climbing the same mountain over over again, that you're not super fucking successful.

完全不是这么回事。

It doesn't mean that at all.

我特别成功，但我的成功来自于一次又一次地爬这座山。

I'm super fucking successful, but the success came from climbing the mountain over and over and over again.

现在我知道了最快捷的上山路线。

And now I know the fastest route up that motherfucker.

我知道所有危险的地方。

I know all the fucking dangers.

我知道所有容易绊倒的陷阱。

I know all the fucking trip holes.

我知道所有糟糕的线路、绳索和固定点。

I know all the fucked up wiring and ropes and fucking anchor points.

我都了如指掌。

I know them all.

所以我现在每天爬的这座山，没我24、25、26岁那时候那么难了。

So that mountain that I climb every day isn't as hard as it was when I was 24, 25, 26.

我比以前懂多了，但还是能从中学到很多新东西。

I'm much more knowledgeable, but I still gain a lot more knowledge from it.

现在我更多是慢慢走上去，而不是像以前那样拼命往上爬。

And for now, I I hike up it versus climb up it now.

我知道你在书里一直提到，没有崩溃，就不会有真正的转变。

And I know throughout the book you talk about that there's no transformation without a breakdown.

你可能会遇到成千上万次想放弃、想退出的时刻。

You're faced with probably a million times where you could give up and quit.

没人看着你。

Nobody's looking.

也没人会知道你有没有坚持。

Nobody would know.

但你就是没放弃。

You don't do it.

但你也提到，有时候放弃也未必是错的选择。

But you also describe, you know, that it's not always the wrong move to quit.

在哪些情况下，你会觉得一个人考虑退缩或放弃时，真的应该这么做呢？

In what instances would you say it would make sense for someone when they're considering giving up or retreating in some way to actually do that?

我脑子里总有一张清单，列着这辈子所有该做的事。

I always have a sheet in my head, a piece of paper of all of the things I have to do in life.

我会把这张清单拆解成眼下我能做的每一件事。

And I break that down into everything I can do in this situation.

这其实就是把所有可能的路都试一遍。

It's a list of exhausting all options.

你得把每一种情况都亲自走一遍。

And that one situation you have to go through every fucking scenario.

你必须把所有能试的办法都试过，才谈得上成功。

You have to have tried everything to succeed.

然后还要想想，怎么把清单上这两件事联系起来，也许把它们结合起来，就能帮我成功。

And then beyond that, think about how you can link up these two things on the list because maybe these two things together will help me succeed.

所以，当你把整个清单都过了一遍之后，就得开始把清单里的项目两两配对了。

So once you go through the whole list, then you gotta start pairing the things up within the list.

当你真正用心去感受，这就是所谓的终极负责法——我已经实实在在地尝试并穷尽了每一个可能的选择。

And once you know, your heart and this is called the accountability way beyond some accountability mirror that I've literally tried and exhausted every single option.

这时候你才会对自己说，也许这件事真的不适合我，但根本没人会这么做。

That is when you say to yourself, maybe this is not for me, but nobody, nobody does that.

所以针对你这个问题，答案几乎永远是否定的，因为没人有耐心在生活的泥潭里一待就是好几年。

So you with this question, the answer is almost never because no one has the patience to sit in the muck in the filth of life for years.

我做一件事，得花上好几年。

It takes me years to do shit.

不是几个月，是好几年。

Not like months.

我需要好几年才能把事情做成。

It takes me years.

所以啊，人们根本没这份耐心。

So people don't have that kind of patience, man.

他们就是做不到。

They just don't.

所以他们永远到不了真正想去的地方。

So they never get to where they really wanna go.

他们现在就要，但现在可不是答案。

They want it now, and now is not the answer.

这挺有意思的。

And it's interesting.

我们请过蒂姆·格罗弗上节目，他讲过自律的痛苦和遗憾的痛苦。

We had Tim Grover on the podcast, and he talks about the pain of discipline versus the pain of regret.

从你的角度看，回过头来看，有没有什么遗憾？

From your perspective, any regrets looking back?

你知道吗？

You know what?

我确实有很多遗憾。

I have a lot of regrets.

我大部分的遗憾都来自年轻的时候，那时候我缺乏一种东西，我称之为‘自我’。

Most of my regret comes from when I was younger and I didn't have, I call it self.

我当时根本没有‘自我’。

I didn't have self.

所谓‘自我’，就是自尊、自知、自信、自驱和自律。

And that means self esteem, self awareness, self belief, self motivation, self discipline.

当你没有这些东西时，你身边会聚集起和你最像的人。

So when you don't have that, you attract the people in your life that you're most like.

而我当时，最像一个失败者。

And I was most like a loser.

所以我身边全是些该死的失败者。

So I attracted a lot of fucking losers.

当你活在那种状态里，身边没有人在凌晨三点、四点爬起来拼命，没有人在喊‘来吧，混蛋，干起来’的时候——

And when you are in that mode of life and you're not around people getting up at three, 04:00 in the morning grinding, saying, come on motherfucker, let's go.

我说的不是健身房。

I'm not talking about the gym.

我说的是赚钱，还有他妈的任何事。

I'm talking about when it comes to making money, it comes to fucking anything.

那些人简直疯了，全身心投入其中。

These people who are fucking this out of their mind obsessed.

我当时没有那种劲头。

I didn't have that.

我身边的人每天下午三四点才起床，熬夜，吃垃圾食品，没追求、没目标，啥都没有。

I have people who are not waking up till three, 04:00 in the afternoon, going to bed late, eating shitty foods, had no desires, had no goals, had nothing.

我就那样待了好多年。

And I sat there for too many years.

我还跟这样的人混在一起。

And I got involved with people like that.

我和这样的人谈过恋爱。

I had relationships with people like that.

结果呢，你就会变成你周围人的样子。

And what happens is that becomes who you are.

所以我最大的遗憾，就是没有更快地把自己打造出来，以至于不得不在人生的黑暗期里挣扎那么久。

So my biggest regret is not building myself fast enough to not go through the beginning of my life in the dungeon.

我花了太长时间才爬出那个深渊，慢到几乎没机会成为今天的戴维·戈金斯。

It took too long to come out of the dungeon, almost too long to where there would have never been a David Goggins.

凡事都有时限，朋友。

There is a time limit on everything, my friend.

每件事都有它该结束的时候。

Everything has a fucking expiration date.

根本没有什么明天。

There is no tomorrow.

有些人或许能等到明天，但那根本不存在。

Some of us get granted a tomorrow, but there really is not one.

我算幸运的。

I was lucky.

你绝不能指望靠运气来改变人生。

And you never wanna bring luck into your fucking life.

是的。

Yeah.

我知道你早年就提到过这件事。

I know you talked about this early on in your life.

你那时候会读各种书，甚至杂志。

You'd read books or even magazines.

你特别着迷于那些成就非凡的人。

You were fascinated by high achieving people.

我记得你提到过，有一次你翻体育杂志，发现你和迈克尔·乔丹唯一的共同点就是生日——你没有他的天赋，但你注意到，他们身上还有其他能力。

And I think in one of the examples, you're reading like a sports magazine and found that the only thing you had in common with Michael Jordan was your birthday, that you didn't have the talent, but you saw that they also had other skill sets.

他们拥有勇气、毅力，还有这些你也可以培养的品质。

They had developed courage and grit and all these different things that you could perhaps harness and develop those characteristics.

你还在书里说过，要是你真有那份天赋，那大家可就真有麻烦了，不管你现在取得了多大的成就。

And then I think you even talk about through the book that like, man, if I had the talent, all of you would have been in trouble, you know, in spite of everything that you've achieved.

是的。

Yeah.

我现在明白了，因为我已经取得了这么多成就。

I see that right now, man, because I was able to achieve so much.

他们又想给我加个头衔，因为这样让他们感觉好受点。

And once again, want to give me a title because it makes them feel better.

我的热情就来自这里。

And that's where a lot where my passion comes from.

你现在都能听出来，真的。

And you can hear it now, man.

我刚才大喊了。

I fucking yelled.

我和人聊过，因为我会回想那些没有天赋的时刻。

I talked to people, man, because I go back to those moments where there was no talent.

那时候就是一遍又一遍地尝试。

It was just try again, try again, try again.

那真的挺糟的。

And that sucks, man.

这让人心里积攒了怒气。

It builds an anger.

这简直让人怒火中烧，真的。

It builds a fucking anger, man.

当你看到有些人浑浑噩噩地过日子，可你却想起迈克尔·乔丹。

When you see people just floating through life, but like you're going back to Michael Jordan.

我们俩都是2月17号出生的。

We're both born February 17.

吉姆·布朗，伟大的跑卫，也是2月17号。

Jim Brown, great running back, February 17.

我当时就惊了。

I was like, oh my God.

随着年纪越来越大，我才意识到，连投个篮我都跳不起来。

And as I started getting older, I realized, man, I can't even dunk a fucking basketball.

我连跑都跑不动，真的。

Man, I can't fucking run, man.

我的腿完全不行了。

My my legs are all fucked up.

我连跑个足球都做不到。

I can't run a football.

我不是那种人。

I'm not these guys.

从那时起，我就开始被书里那些普通人吸引，比如克劳福德他们——表面看是普通人，其实一点都不普通。

So that's when I started gravitating towards like the Crawfords, the people like that that are in the book, just the normal everyday Joes, but they're not normal everyday Joes.

这些人拥有的是勇气、品格、执着和自律。

What these guys had was courage, character, commitment, discipline.

这些品质，每个人都可以靠自己去培养。

These are things that every human being can work on on their own.

你不需要天赋。

You don't need talent.

你需要的是自律。

You need discipline.

我说，嘿，我也有这种品质。

I said, man, I have that.

于是我开始更关注那些普通却远超常人的人。

So I started gravitate more towards the the everyday person that went way beyond.

他们达到了我在书里提到的那条从蓝到黑的界限。

They went to that blue to black line I talked about in the book.

就是那条通向卓越的蓝到黑的界限。

That blue to black line where you reach greatness.

我渐渐意识到，这正是我能做到的。

And I started realizing that's what I can do.

我没法靠天赋取胜。

I cannot work a motherfucker.

但我能比谁都更拼命。

I can outwork everybody.

这才是关键。

That's what it takes.

我扣不了篮。

I can't dunk.

但所有我想要的东西，全在这堆烂摊子里头。

But over here, everything that I want is over here in this fucking pile of shit.

努力、专注、付出。

Hard work, dedication, sacrifice.

这些我都能做到。

I can do that.

我随时都能干，一天到晚都行。

I can do that all fucking day long.

我可以凌晨三点就起床。

I can get up at 03:00 in the morning.

我比不了你那套本事。

I cannot work you.

我就是在那儿找到真正的卓越的。

That's where I found greatness over there.

戴夫，我很好奇。

And Dave, I'm curious.

你现在心里是怎么想的？假设凌晨三点，外面下着冻雨，你把自己拉起来去训练。

What's the thought process like for you right now if you were to take someone inside of your psyche at 03:00 in the morning, it's freezing rain out.

我是说，现在的戴夫·戈金斯。

I mean, the the Dave David Goggins today.

你有没有哪天早上醒来，真的想去做这件事？

Do you ever wake up and you wanna do that?

还是说，这种念头根本就不存在了？

Or is just like the desire that not even in the picture?

没有。

No.

是存在的。

It is.

说实话，现在每一天都越来越难了。

Like, right now, it it becomes harder every day.

你赚得越多，买的东西就越讲究。

The more you get paid nicely, the more you buy nicer things.

从睡破旧的行军床，到睡那种贴合你身体曲线、能调温、还配真丝床单的床垫，这种变化太夸张了。

The more you go from sleeping on fucked up cots to sleeping on fucking, you know, mattresses that are formed to your shape of your body and heat temperature and silk sheets and all this shit, man.

兄弟，想睡个有真丝床单的床，真不容易。

Man, it's hard to get a bed with some silk sheets brother.

这种生活会让人迷失。

And that fucks people up.

所以我从来不碰真丝床单。

That's why I ain't got silk sheets.

这背后有个关键点。

And this is the thing about it.

我人生中有一段时期，越来越成功，成就也越来越大。

I started going through a time in my life where I started becoming more successful with more success.

但那时候，要当那个真正的戈金斯，反而越来越难了。

It became harder for me to be Goggins.

所以我开始回到以前的老方法。

So what I started doing was I went back to the old school.

我之前说过，山顶上什么也学不到。

Like I said, nothing is learned at the top of a mountain.

我得回到那个心里还胖着的戴维·戈金斯的时候。

I had to go back to where David Goggins was fat in his mind.

我问自己，你是怎么走到今天的？

And I said, how did you get to where you are?

我让自己变得不那么敏感了。

I became feeling less.

我不是说对你家人、妻子或丈夫的感情也要关闭。

And what that means is I'm not saying turn off your feelings towards your family, your wife, your husband.

我不是这个意思。

I'm not saying that.

当你想变得更好的时候，才需要把情绪关掉。

Turn your feelings off when it comes down to you wanting to be better.

意思是闹钟一响，你的情绪就得放下。

What that means is when that alarm clock goes off, your feelings got to go away.

外面在下雨。

It's raining outside.

外面很冷。

It's cold outside.

你当然不想在工作时穿上那些厚重的装备。

Well, you don't want to put those long arbors in at work.

我说的就是这个。

That's what I'm talking about.

你的感受必须放下。

Your feelings must go away.

当别人都回家陪家人了，可你心里清楚，你想要成为世界上顶尖的销售员，或者最厉害的律师，不管你想成为什么。

When you know everybody's gone home to their families, but you know, you wanna be the top salesperson in the world, or you wanna be the fucking best lawyer in the world, whatever the fuck it is.

当所有人都走了，十五层楼里只剩下一盏灯亮着，就在一间办公室里。

When everybody leaves to go home, and there's only one light on in a building, a 15 story building, and only one office.

所有办公室都黑着灯。

Every office is fucking dark.

只有一间办公室亮着灯，那些人从俱乐部出来时，每天凌晨两点抬头一看。

There's one office with one light on, and as those motherfuckers go from the club, they look up every day, 02:00 in the morning.

他们看到那盏灯，一直都亮着。

They see that and that fucking light's always on.

你就要成为那个家伙。

That's the motherfucker right there you gotta be.

别人下班的时候，你不能有情绪。

You can't have feelings about when everybody leaves.

天哪。

Oh, man.

我真希望能回家陪我那可爱的家人。

I wish I was going home to my fucking beautiful family.

确实如此。

That is true.

但如果你想成就大事，就得学会把感情收起来。

But you gotta learn to shut your feelings off if you want to achieve greatness.

真正的伟大，只有当你对这种事不再有情绪的时候才能达到。

And greatness is only achieved when your feelings about that kind of shit.

我说的这种事，就是指这个。

And let me say that kind of shit.

那些可能在听的软弱的人，别曲解我的意思。

For those soft people who may be listening to this, don't put words in my mouth.

我不是在说你的家人，还有那些乱七八糟的事。

I'm not talking about your fucking family and all that shit.

我说的是拼命干。

I'm talking about the grind.

就是拼了命地干。

The fucking grind.

你的感情得放一边。

Your feelings have to go away.

当你反思的时候，我想有些听众可能会持怀疑态度，心里想：我不确定。

And when you reflect, because I imagine, like, somebody listening to this, let's to just address the skeptic, and they're saying, I don't know.

我不确定自己是否认同戈金斯的说法。

I don't know if I agree with Goggins.

我觉得这有点太过了。

I think that's a little bit intense.

未免太极端了。

That's a little too much.

但这么做值得吗？

But is it worth it though?

对吧？

Right?

因为很多站在远处的人，抬头看着那座山，

Because I many of the people that are, you know, from a distance, they're looking up at the mountain.

他们看不到山顶上的人，也体会不到那种感觉。

They don't see the person at the top, and they never get that feeling.