Lessons from our 'failures' + Illustration Business Club doors close tonight!

我们回来了。

We're back.

我们回来了。

We're back.

塔尼亚还在旅途中，但我们还有更多问题要回答，对吧？

And Tania is still on her travels, but we've got more questions to answer, haven't we?

是的。

Yes.

我们还有更多关于商业插画营销的问题要回答，来庆祝商业课程的大门...

We've got more business y illustration marketing questions to celebrate the fact that the doors to the business course...

插画商业俱乐部已经开放了。

Illustration Business Club are open.

所以你们...

So you...

我会把所有的信息放在下面，你们可以详细了解。

I'll put all the information below so you can read all about that.

但第一个问题是，有没有什么保持一致的技巧？

But the first question on here was any consistency hacks?

所以我猜这说的是在发帖或营销上保持一致，或者就是泛指保持一致性。

So I'm assuming it's about consistency in posting or marketing, just gonna get consistency in general.

那你暑假期间决定每天发帖的经历怎么样？

What about your experience over the summer of deciding to post every day over the summer?

那进行得如何？

How did that go,

我当时想，哦，我有六周不接客户工作，脑子空得很，又有点无聊，我就试试每天发帖，看看会发生什么。

being post I the was like, oh, I'm having six weeks off client work, I've got loads of free brain space, and I'm a bit bored, I'll try posting every single day and just see what happens.

一开始还挺好玩的，可能第一周我有很多想法，但之后就开始有点，哦不，我说了要每天发帖，现在我得……

And to start with, was fun, maybe like the first week I had ideas, and then after that it was a bit like, oh no, I said I would post every day, and now I have...

我得坚持到底。

I'm holding myself to it.

而且，真的很有意思，因为我觉得这让我意识到，当我真正有灵感、有想法，觉得，哦，我真的很想分享这个的时候，那些帖子表现特别好。

And, yeah, it was really interesting because I think it made me realise that when I'm really inspired and have an idea and feel like, oh, I really wanna share this, those posts do really well.

但当我只是随便发发，为了发而发，心里想着‘哦，我得发点什么’的时候。

But when I'm just plodging along and posting for the sake of it and being like, oh, I need something to post.

那些帖子效果就不太好。

Those posts did not do very well.

我觉得这肯定跟能量有关，人们能感觉到你是不是用心了，如果我没用心，大家是能察觉到的。

And I think it must be like an energy thing, like people can feel whether you can be bothered or not, and if I can't be bothered people can sense that.

但这确实逼着我做了一些事，比如让我重新发那些表现好的旧帖子。

But it did force to do things like, yeah, it made me repost old posts that had done well.

我当时特别惊讶，一模一样的帖子，随便写个标题，结果一下子就爆了，几千的浏览量。

And I was amazed, like identical post, half assed caption, boom, like thousands of posts.

我当时就想，原来我一直可以这么干，我居然都没意识到。

Was like, you mean I could have been doing like this the whole time and I didn't even realize?

所以这对我来说是个很大的教训。

So that was a big lesson for me.

这真的很有意思。

That's really interesting.

所以你找到了一篇很久以前表现很好的帖子，很多人可能没看过。

So you found a post that had done really well a long time ago that a lot of people might not have seen.

你是直接重新发了一遍，还是改了新的文案再发的？

And did you just repost it or did you rejig it with new captions on?

你是怎么做的？

What did you, how did you do

我想想，对，其中一篇是我画的一瓶葡萄酒的插画，上面写着“一个中年男人在LinkedIn上的自信”，然后我就配了句文案“我就放这儿了”。

I think, yeah, so one of them was the, I've got an illustration of a bottle of wine and it says, the confidence of a middle aged man on LinkedIn and, and I think I just made the caption, I'm just gonna leave this here.

这说得通，因为我有很多……

And it makes sense because I've got lots...

自从我上次发这个帖子以来，又有很多新粉丝关注了。

There's been new people following since the last time I posted it.

我现在可能已经发了三次了。

And I've maybe posted it three times now.

不过，确实有效果。

But, yeah, it did.

它带来了很多新粉丝，很多点赞，看到这个结果真的很有意思。

It got lots of new followers, lots of likes, and it was just an interesting thing to see.

确实。

Absolutely.

但后来我又发了一些其他的插画作品，结果完全没人看，效果很差。这让我意识到，对于一个只发插画的插画师来说，作品这样扑街是多么让人沮丧。

But then also, like, I posted some other illustration work which totally bombed, didn't do well at all, and that made me realise how disheartening it could be for an illustrator that's just posting illustrations for your work to flop like that.

这是我的真实作品，却没人看到。

It's this is my actual work and nobody is seeing it.

但就是那样，LinkedIn那个很好笑，所以我觉得关键在幽默元素。

But it was that thing, like, the LinkedIn one is funny, so I suppose it's the joke element.

所以就是那种娱乐性。

So it's like that entertaining factor.

这又多了一层需要考虑的东西。

There's like an added layer of things to think about.

这有趣吗？

Is this entertaining?

有教育意义吗？

Educational?

那挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

不过你说几天后你突然觉得，哎呀，我——

I really got excited though when you said that after a few days you were like, oh no, I

我说过要每天发帖的。

said I'd post every day.

我在这儿呢。

Here I am.

我真希望你这周剩下的每一天都发你哭的视频。

I wish every day you just, for the rest of the week, just posted you cry.

你这么说。

You saying that.

我当时不知道。

Didn't know.

我会觉得自己就是那样。

I'm gonna feel like I am.

我就是。

I am.

你抓到我了。

You've got me.

我在这儿。

I'm here.

确实有那种感觉。

It did feel like that.

我当时只是，

I was just,

大家好。

hello, everyone.

我回来了。

I'm back.

这里有个皮质的柱子。

There's a leather post.

说到坚持这件事，因为我知道自己是个会在一段时间内对某件事特别上瘾的人。

So the thing about being consistent, because I know I'm a person who gets really into something for a period of time.

但那段时期，我不知道会持续多久，但我知道那种强烈的兴奋感总会有结束的时候。

But that period of time, I don't know how long it's going to be, but I do know there'll be an end to the really strong excitement.

我喜欢知道，如果我开始做某件事，它不一定要永远做下去，因为我有太多次经历，就是硬撑着做那些已经不再让我兴奋的事情，感觉就像在泥里拖着走，特别难受。

I like to know that if I'm starting something, it doesn't have to be forever because I've had so many times where I've just felt really bad when I'm just, like, pulling myself through mud trying to carry on doing the thing that now I'm not finding exciting anymore.

而且别人也能看出来。

And people can see it.

他们能从你做的作品里感受到。

They can feel it in the work you're making.

我只是……

I just...

现在我开始做一件事的时候，要么我会公开给个时间范围，要么就在心里想，好吧，等哪天这事儿不再好玩了，停下来完全没问题，因为很可能马上会有更有趣的事情出现，我就跟着那个走。

When I start something now, I think either I'll publicly give a timeframe or in my head I'll just think, okay, when it gets to the point where this isn't fun anymore, it's absolutely fine to stop, because there's probably something else about to come along that is even more fun, and I'll just go with that.

给自己这样的心理准备挺好的，不是说要允许自己放弃，而是知道这种情况会发生，这样你就不会突然觉得，哎呀，我怎么没热情了。

So good to give yourself, like, well, not permission, but just to know that it's coming, so that you're not like, oh no, I'm not enthusiastic anymore.

我经历过整个学习数字绘画的阶段，想着这能省我很多时间，而且会很有趣。

I went through the whole phase of learning everything digital to make artwork digital, thinking this is gonna save me loads of time and it's gonna be so much fun.

但我没考虑到的是，我会花多少时间盯着屏幕，还有……

What I didn't think about was the amount of time I'd be looking at a screen and how...

你还记得我因为拿着……结果胸部疼吗？

Do you remember I got a sore boob from holding my...

我得了所谓的“Illustrator胸”，因为长时间保持一个姿势拿着iPad，肩膀微微抬起，想着，哦，我就拿一下iPad，快速做点事。

I got Illustrator's boob from holding my iPad still for so long with one shoulder slightly up, thinking, oh, I'll just pick up my iPad for a minute and I'll just do this thing quick.

结果一个小时过去了，我还保持同一个姿势。

And an hour later, I'm still in the same position.

最后我去了医院，因为我的手臂、肩膀、脖子、胸部，全都疼。

I ended up going to the hospital because my arm, my shoulder, my neck, my boob, everything was sore.

我当时傻傻的，没意识到，哦，我知道是怎么回事了。

Stupidly didn't think, oh, I know what it is.

我拿着iPad，

I'm holding an iPad for

一天八个小时。

eight hours a day.

我听说过

I've heard

我的眼睛和头，就是没有在纸上画那么有趣。

my eyes and my head, it just wasn't as fun as on paper.

所以尽管它有好处，我现在还是回到用纸了。

So even though it has its advantages, I've gone back to paper now.

对，确实。

Yeah, definitely.

我参加那种长达七小时的活动时，总是要一张桌子，把笔记本电脑架起来。

When I do long events for seven hours or something, I always ask for a desk and have my laptop stand.

最近我参加了一次，他们问，哦，是礼堂座位，可以吗？

And I recently did one and they were like, oh, it's auditorium seating, is that all right?

我当时还想表现得随和一点，酷一点。

And I was like trying to be easy going and cool.

我就说，行，没问题。

I was like, yeah, that's fine.

但那天晚上我蜷在那儿，像只虾米一样，到现在还觉得不舒服，但那个——

I was still feeling it from like being curled up like a pro and golden night, but like that's-

不舒服吧？

Not good is it?

确实不舒服。

That's not good.

而且真的，要过好一阵子才能缓过来，不再觉得自己像只蜷着的虾。

And it really, it takes a while to get back to not feeling like a curled up shrimp.

就算我把所有东西都摆好了，比如我买了一张那种放在沙发旁边的小桌子，可以把它拉近到身边。

Even when I've got everything set up, so I bought all like a table, one of those little tables for beside your sofa so you can swing it in close to you.

然后在我的书桌上，给数码设备配了个合适的支架，还换了把好椅子，诸如此类的。

And then on my desk, having a proper stand for my digital stuff and getting a better chair and all that.

对我来说，就是一直盯着屏幕，如果盯太久，我就觉得……

Just the eyes on a screen for me, if I spend too long at that, I just feel...

我其实会头晕。

I feel dizzy actually.

而且第二天醒来，还是有点晕乎乎的。

And even the next day, I wake up feeling a bit dizzy.

我知道如果我在纸上工作，我感觉自己像个完整的人。

And I know if I'm working on paper, I feel like a whole person.

我真的很享受。

I genuinely enjoy it.

而且因为做的时候身体可以动来动去，感觉更舒服。

And because my body can move around while I'm doing it, just feels nicer.

确实舒服多了。

It's much nicer.

说到坚持这件事，我确实觉得我更喜欢做那些能长期有回报的事情。

The consistency thing, I definitely feel like I much prefer doing stuff that pays off for a long time.

所以我用Instagram，但我其实并没有从上面接到插画的工作。

So I use Instagram, but I don't actually get illustration work from it.

我主要用它来和其他插画师聊天，但在幕后，比如搜索引擎优化，我写一篇博客文章，就能持续带来效果几十年。

I use it just to chat to other illustrators really, but then behind the scenes, like search engine optimization, I can do one blog post, and it will work for literal decades.

我写过一篇文章，其实跟这个没什么关系，是关于我在2012年做的手工洗衣粉。

There's a post that I did, which is actually not useful to this, about handmade washing powder that I made in 2012.

但我当时对手工环保洗衣粉特别感兴趣，我画了配方，还写了一篇博客文章。

But I got really excited about this handmade eco friendly washing powder, and I illustrated a recipe, and I wrote a blog post about it.

每个月，在我的Google Search Console里，都会显示，你有100个访客在看你的洗衣粉文章。

And every single month, on my Google Search Console thing, it's like, you had a 100 visitors looking at your washing powder thing.

我就觉得，这太不可思议了。

And I'm like, that is wild.

但另外，那些关于我工作的、能带来询盘的博客也表现很好，而且我真的很喜欢知道，如果因为某种原因我再也不发Instagram了，事情还是会源源不断地来，我不需要保持更新频率。

But then, also, the other blogs that are useful and are about my work and get me inquiries are also doing really well, and like, I love actually knowing that if I, for some reason, didn't ever post on Instagram again, things would still be dripping in, and I don't have to be consistent.

这确实有帮助。

It helps.

比如说，如果你定期发博客，互联网会喜欢，但我不需要。

Like, if you post regular blog posts, the internet likes that, but I don't have to.

有趣的是，你那么久以前发的帖子，因为你当时真的很投入、很兴奋，其他人能……

It's interesting that a post you made that long ago, because you were really into it and got very excited, other people can...

还能感受到你的……

Are still getting your...

他们能感受到你的热情。

They're feeling your excitement from it.

这可能就是它浏览量这么高的原因。

That'll be why it gets so many views.

对，完全同意。

Yeah, totally.

而且因为它确实是个有用的东西。

And because it is like, it's a useful thing.

我当时真的很兴奋。

I was really excited.

这里面有我的心血，因为我画的时候真的很投入。

It's got my, my soul in it because I was drawing it and like really got into it.

所以，对，这是个标志。

So yeah, it's a sign.

我们还有

Have we

别的问题吗？

got any more questions?

有。

Yes.

是什么来着……

What was...

哦，对。

Oh, yes.

有人问过这个吗？

Did somebody ask this one?

哦，在哪儿呢？

Oh, where is it?

你最不喜欢的是什么？在你解决它之前，有没有一个临界点？

What was your least favorite thing, and was there a breaking point before you fixed it?

我原本以为这跟营销有关，但你觉得这可能是跟招聘板相关的。

And I was assuming it was about a marketing thing, but you thought maybe this was a jobs board related.

对，我觉得听听你关于招聘板的经历会很有意思。

Yeah, I thought it'd be interesting to hear about your jobs board.

是的，你开张时的经历，你收到的所有额外工作。

Yeah, your experience when you opened up, all the extra work you were getting in.

你把所有东西都放在招聘板上，但最后决定撤下来。

You put it all on a jobs board, but you decided to take it down eventually.

这确实是个有趣的话题。

So it's an interesting one.

我能运营招聘板的原因，是因为我多年来一直痴迷于营销，并且开始深入其中，嗯，让我从头说起。

So the reason that I was able to run the jobs board is because I've spent so many years being obsessed with marketing and was getting in to, yeah, to rewind.

我本来只是个自由插画师，后来活儿太多了，我就想，哦，我在大英图书馆做过一个孵化器项目，他们建议我组建一个大团队，把规模做大。

Was just a freelancer illustrating, and then got too much work and was like, oh, I did an incubator with the British Library, they were like, you should have a big team and scale this, more.

所以我确实组建了大团队，有领工资的员工，还经营着一家代理公司，但我非常讨厌这样，因为我觉得自己基本上就是个全职发邮件的，我可不想干这个。

So I did go a big team and I had, like, salaried employees and was running an agency and absolutely hated it because I didn't like I was basically a full time email sender, and I did not wanna do

对。

that.

我学插画可不是为了发邮件的。

I didn't study illustration to send emails.

所以后来我就把规模缩小了，回到只带一个助理的状态，然后……

So then, reigned it all back in, went back to just having my assistant and...

但我们还是收到大量咨询，因为我在营销上下了很多功夫。

But we're still getting loads of inquiries because I've been working so hard on my marketing.

然后Instagram上有人看到我在快拍里发了一些招聘信息，就跟我说，你完全可以开始做……

And then somebody on Instagram, after I posted a few jobs on my Instagram stories, they were like, you should totally start.

你可以做一个招聘板。

You could start a jobs board.

所以我就这么做了。

So I did.

而且，从营销的角度来说，有个地方能把多余的咨询转过去也挺好的，但要说乐趣嘛……

And it was, like, in terms of marketing, it was nice for me to have somewhere to send the excess enquiries, but then in terms of, like, enjoyableness.

一开始确实很好玩，我也很开心，但我觉得就是……

At first it was really fun, and I had a great time, but I think it just...

比如我在网上聊这个的时候，有些短视频有点火了，然后那些不认识我、也不在我这个圈子里的人看到了，就会说，这女的是谁啊？

Like when I was talking about it online, like some reels went a bit viral, so then people who didn't know me and weren't in my like ecosystem saw it and they were like, who is this woman?

她凭什么？

How dare she?

这对我来说倒是挺新鲜的。

Which was a new experience for me.

然后呢，

And then

就是说你靠特权才得到这份工作，好像你不是靠努力才得到的，好像只有你身上发生了什么神奇的事，所以你就是那个守门人。

it was- It talking accusing you of having privilege that brought you in the work as if you didn't work to get the work, as if there was something magical happening to only you and therefore you were a gatekeeper.

但你之前可是费了好大劲，靠SEO什么的才拿下那些工作的。

But you'd worked so hard using your SEO and everything to get all those jobs in.

然后不知怎么的，大家就觉得我应该免费提供这些，可我不能免费给，不然我会觉得特别委屈，尤其是当事情还顺利的时候。

And then somehow people thought I should just be giving it away for free, which it was like, I need to, I can't give things away for free without feeling really resentful and things like Oh, Especially when it's fine.

写招聘信息、帮客户对接，这些都很花时间的。

It takes time to write the jobs board frequently and put people in touch with the clients and everything.

你不可能免费做这些的。

You couldn't do it for free.

对。

No.

但这确实是个很好的教训，关于互联网，关于所谓的“走红”，我加个引号。

But it was a really good lesson in the internet, and and going viral, inverted commas.

其实也不算特别火，就是比平时多了一些人关注，然后被误解，也许要学会接受被误解。

It wasn't super viral, but it was like more people than usual, and being misunderstood, and maybe getting okay with being misunderstood.

因为这让我认真反思，我只需要真正了解自己，喜欢自己，然后从那个角度出发。

Because it made me really look at, oh, I just need to really know who I am and I need to like myself and then come from a place

从这个角度出发，而不是从

of that and not a

一个“我保证我不是坏人”的角度。

place of I promise I'm not a bad person.

所以从这个方面来说，真的挺好的。

So it was really good in that respect.

但是，是啊，我只是……

But, yeah, I just...

我试着运营它，但就是没收到什么恶意留言。

I tried to run it, but I just didn't get, like, get any mean messages.

后来我把它改成免费的了，但显然我不喜欢免费做，因为那等于在免费送工作。

Then I made it free, but then I didn't like doing it for free, obviously, because I was giving away work.

现在它无限期暂停了，而且……

And now it's on pause indefinitely, and it's...

它需要一些……

It needs some need

需要一些时间来弄清楚发生了什么，以及接下来该怎么办。

some time to work out what happened and what happens next.

我不着急，因为我觉得这件事不会有什么进展。

And I'm not in a rush with it, because I feel like it's not going anywhere.

但我不想完全说它永远不会发生了。

But I don't wanna completely be like, it's never happening.

但也不想说很快就要重新开放，所以我只想稍微提一下，先放一放，等我从网上那些对我不好的人那里恢复过来再说。

But also I don't wanna be like, I'm opening it soon, so I'm gonna give a little nod of just, let's just leave that there while I recover from people being nasty to me on the internet.

你需要小睡一会儿，好好想想。

You need a little nap and think.

对，需要小睡一会儿。

Yeah, need a little nap.

我在想，

I was thinking,

抱歉，你继续说。

sorry, go on.

所以周末我去了那个疯狂的研讨会，那个教社交媒体之类的老师，他就说，是啊，我刚开始做生意的时候，还收到过死亡威胁。

So I went to that mad workshop at the weekend and this, this man who teaches about social media and stuff, he was just like, yeah, when I started my business, got death threats.

我当时就想，真的假的？

And I was like, really?

他的看法基本上就是，操……

His opinion was basically fucking...

那你的胳膊呢？

So your arms.

也许吧。

Maybe.

他就说，你在干什么？

He like, what are you doing?

他的事情是，他搞那个套利投注。

His thing was that he does some matched betting thing.

因为他教别人怎么套利投注，那些想保密的人就特别生气，觉得他把秘密公开了还拿这个赚钱。

And because he was teaching people how to do matched betting, other people who wanted it to be kept a secret were really angry with them for, like, releasing the secret and making money out of it.

总之，对，他就说，这就是做事的代价。

Anyways, yeah, he was like, that's just the cost of it, of doing a thing.

别人可能不喜欢。

People might not like it.

你得接受。

Deal with it.

再说一次，基本上就是让你别太把自己当回事，但他说得很暖心。

Again, was a get over yourself, basically, but lovingly said.

太棒了。

Amazing.

你可能只是需要一点时间

You probably just need some time

来理清思路，想想下一步怎么做。

To get your head back and work out what's next.

不过凯蒂，这真的很棒。

It was amazing, though, Katie.

太棒了。

Was brilliant.

而且所有找到工作的人都特别喜欢，当然啦。

And all the people who did get work absolutely loved it, of course.

对，确实。

Yeah, definitely.

这就是问题所在，我觉得作为人类，我们总是更容易关注那些负面的东西，或者担心某个高中同学看到什么然后评价你，却完全忽略了那些说“这太棒了，我们很喜欢，非常感谢”的人，然后就是，对，随便吧。

And that's the thing when I think as humans, it's so much easier to focus on the negative things or to focus on somebody from high school seeing something and judging you, and then completely ignoring the people that are like, this is amazing, we love this, thank you so much, and yeah, it's either, yeah, whatever.

反正，我老是纠结那些不好的事情。

Anyways, I'm too busy thinking about the bad thing.

别想了。

Shut up.

为什么我们的大脑会这样？

Why do our brains do that?

这真的很烦人。

It's It's really annoying.

我在想一个对我来说没成功的营销案例。

I was thinking about a marketing thing that didn't work for me.

那是在封锁期间，我没办法再去学校了，因为学校都关门了，所以我决定把我的学校访问放到网上。

And it was when for a period around lockdown, when I couldn't visit schools anymore because schools weren't open, I decided I would put my school visit online.

于是我围绕我的书制作了一系列影片，里面有活动和可以在学校做的事情，还展示了我的工作室空间、创意来源、素描本等等。

And so I made a set of films around my books that had activities and things that they could do in school and showed my studio space and where ideas came from and sketchbooks and all of that.

制作过程真的很有趣。

It was really good fun making it.

但当我发布出去之后，有一个我完全没考虑到、本应该考虑到的重要问题，那就是……

And then as soon as I put it out, the one hugely important thing that I've not taken into account, which I should have taken into account, was that...

其实有两个问题。

Well, two things really.

学校没有多少预算。

Schools don't have big budgets.

大多数学校都在苦苦挣扎，屋顶漏水了，就放个桶在下面接水，这就是他们的解决办法，这真的很糟糕，很令人难过。

Most schools are really struggling and they have a leak in their roof and they put a bucket underneath it and that's the fix, which is really awful, really sad.

还有一件事就是，每次我去学校，收款简直是个噩梦，因为你得给他们开发票，有时候是给学校，有时候是给地方议会，然后他们会寄一张实体支票过来，你还得亲自跑到银行去兑现。

And the other thing was that, of course, every time I visit a school, getting paid is a nightmare because you have to send them an invoice, sometimes to the school, sometimes to the council, and they send you an actual check-in the post that you have to take to your bank with your legs.

这真的很麻烦，尤其是当我在城里没有银行网点的时候。

And it's just a nightmare, especially when I don't have a bank with a branch in town.

所以我得填一张不同的表格，装进信封，去邮局寄，然后等着。

So I'd have to fill in a different form and put in an envelope, go to the post office, then wait for it.

我知道现实中的学校访问是这样的，但我想，我的线上学校访问肯定会很棒，学校大概会直接用信用卡付款吧。

And I knew that about real life school visits, but I thought, oh, my school visit online will be so great that schools will probably just pay with a credit card.

所以我会设置一个结账系统，他们可以直接购买，在我的日历上预约日期，然后付款。

So I'll have a checkout system so they can buy it, book their date on my calendar and pay for it.

这样我就不用处理那些行政事务了。

And I won't have anything to do with all that admin.

一切都会自动完成。

It'll just happen.

但结果完全不是这样，他们还是想用支票付款，还是想让我开发票。

But that didn't happen at all because they still want to pay by checks and they still wanted me to send them an invoice.

那对我来说简直就是地狱，不停地发发票，然后等着纸质支票寄过来。

And that is just my idea of hell is just constantly sending invoices and waiting for actual pieces of paper checks.

所以我就……

So I just

谁有那闲工夫啊。

Nobody's got time for that.

哦，那真是……

Oh, it was just...

我完全把那些事给忘了。

I completely forgot about all that.

所以我没……

So I didn't...

我几乎……

I barely...

哦，我大概能卖出多少呢？

Oh, how many would I have sold?

我不知道。

I don't know.

10本？

10?

因为学校就是没有预算。

Because it just wasn't schools don't have budget.

我不想开发票。

I didn't want to send an invoice.

所以我会说，拜托，我不给你开发票了。

So I would be like, please, I'm not sending you an invoice.

直接付钱就行。

Just pay.

所以你说得对。

So you're right.

我就放弃了，直接把它免费放到我网站上了。

I just gave up on it and put it free on my website.

而且我很高兴它就在那里。

And I'm so glad it's there.

我很高兴我做了它，因为这是我网站上免费的好东西。

I'm glad I made it because it's a lovely free thing on my website.

但是，是的，那是一个营销手段，在最初阶段，我本该记得去学校收钱是个噩梦。

But, yeah, that was a piece of marketing where at the first stage, I should have remembered when I visit schools getting paid, it's a nightmare.

但你不试怎么知道呢。

But you don't know till you try.

所以为什么……

So why...

很多时候你得先试了才能搞清楚。

So many times you've got to try it to then figure out the thing.

现在学校可能已经改变了。

It's possible that schools have changed that by now.

但如果我再做一次，我会先做研究，四处打听，看看现在老师是不是有信用卡，可以直接付款。

But if I did it again, I would do my research and ask around and see whether teachers are given a credit card now and they're allowed to just pay for something.

应该是这样的。

They should be.

才20.26美元，天哪。

It's $20.26, for goodness sake.

天哪。

Sake.

明白。

Check.

什么

What

你从这件事中学到的大教训是什么？

was your big lesson from that?

是不是就只是……

Was it just to...

我的教训是什么？

What my lesson?

也许吧。

Maybe

我该更现实一点，但我之前的经验是，学校参观真的很有趣。

that I should have been a bit more realistic, but my previous experience was school visit is really good fun.

我是真的在实地做这件事。

I'm doing it in real life.

这很少见。

It's rare.

这很少见，因为我经常要出差，所以做得不多。

It's rare because I have to travel a lot and I didn't do it a lot.

那真的很有意思。

It was really good fun.

偶尔检查一次没什么大不了的，但想把它做成生意，希望每天都有几所学校参与，那检查量就太大了，根本不可能。

And one check every now and again wasn't a big deal, but trying to make a business out of it where I wanted a few schools to be in there every day, that amount of checks would just, it's not happening.

就是，对，好吧，听我说。

It was just, yeah, well listen.

我不知道，我现在挺喜欢网站上放个免费的东西。

I don't know, I like having the freebie on my website now.

我很高兴我花了这个功夫。

I'm glad I went to the effort.

放在那里挺好的。

It's good to have it there.

你从中得到了有价值的东西。

You've got a valuable thing out of it.

而且也许知道不是每个想法都能成功也是好事。

And maybe also it's good to know that not every idea works as well.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

这并没有完全打击我，让我决定放弃当插画师。

It didn't completely break me and make me decide to give up on being an illustrator.

我当时就想，

I was like,

哦，海伦。

oh, Helen.

感觉有点尴尬。

It felt a bit embarrassing.

我觉得我应该先把它藏起来一阵子。

I felt like I should just sweep it under the rug for a little while.

就是，哦，对。

Just, oh, yeah.

不。

No.

我没有花很长时间准备学校访问。

I wasn't spending ages making a school visit.

学校访问？

School visit?

不，不，那不是我。

No, no, that wasn't me.

那不是我。

That wasn't me.

我花了五分钟。

It took me five minutes.

就是那种事。

The sort of thing.

然后还有一年我休息了，那时候我在出版业工作了一段时间，但我还不真正了解自己。

And then there's the year I took out when I'd been working in publishing for a while, but I didn't really know who I was yet.

我在做书，却不太清楚自己是什么状态。

And I was making books without really knowing how I was.

所以我的书……

And so my books were...

它们不太像我。

They didn't really feel like me.

它们感觉像是一个奇怪的、色彩鲜艳的平面版的我。

They felt like a sort of weird, bright colored flat version of me.

那个……

That...

而且它……

And it...

而且我工作的时候，真的很难在作品里表达情感，因为都是用平涂的颜料画的。

And the way I was working, I couldn't show emotions in it really very well because it was all painted with flat paint.

所以，是的，我当时就休了一年假。

So, yeah, I took a year out then.

所以不是营销不行，而是那种工作方式对我来说行不通。

So it wasn't marketing not working, but that was like a way of working that wasn't working for me.

感觉就像我没在做自己，那种感觉太糟糕了，我实在撑不下去了。

It felt like I wasn't being myself, and it felt so awful not being myself that I couldn't carry on.

所以我休了一年假，重新翻出我的速写本，然后……

So I took a year out and went back to my sketchbooks and...

就像，我在出版业一开始学到的那些东西真的很有价值。

Like, all of the stuff I learned in publishing at the beginning was really valuable.

我学到了很多。

I learned so much.

那是个很棒的学徒经历，而且我合作的都是些很棒的人，之后也一直有合作。

It was a brilliant apprenticeship, and I worked with some fantastic people that I've worked with since.

但我确实需要回到我的速写本。

But I needed to actually go back to my sketchbooks.

就像我在大学时的作品，在我接委托之前，把两者结合起来，这样我才能真正重新享受工作。

Like my work had been at college before I'd done a commission and bring the two things together so that I actually really enjoyed the work again.

所以这就回到了我们之前说的，我觉得在上一集里我们谈到要有一个扎实的产品，我会把你的插画称为产品，但就像你在工作中感觉非常好。

So that was that kind goes back to what we were saying before about, I think it in the previous episode when we were talking about having a solid product, I'd call your illustration a product, but like you feeling really good in your work.

这不是直接关于营销的事情，但连锁反应是，你带着你的故事和插画去见出版商时，会感觉好得多，因为你有了那段休息时间，真正重新沉浸在自己的风格里，想清楚自己想做什么。

It's not a direct thing about marketing, but the knock on effect is you would feel so much better going to publishers with your stories and your illustrations, because you've had that time out to really nestle into your own style again and figure out what you wanted to do.

有时候你需要这样稍微重置一下，就像现实检查，这行不通，我需要做点什么。

Sometimes you have to have a bit of a reset like that, like a reality check that this isn't working and I need to do something about it.

是的，太好了。

Yeah, so good.

其实，确实有，我觉得，是的，有。

There's actually, there's a, I think, yeah, there is.

你在“找到你的创作声音”页面上录了一个很棒的视频。

You recorded a brilliant video on the Find Your Creative Voice page.

我会在下面放一个链接，如果有人……

I'll put a link to that below if somebody...

如果你想看的话，因为那……

If you wanna watch it, because it's...

你详细讲了你的整个间隔年、过程、发生了什么，所有事情。

You talk through your whole year out and the process and what happened and everything.

那个视频经常收到留言。

Been getting messages quite often about that video.

我很高兴我做了那个视频。

I'm glad I made that video.

很多人对它很有共鸣。

People relate to it a lot.

我觉得有很多人经历过类似的经历，他们觉得

There's a lot of people who've been through a similar experience, I think, that feel

啊，我

a I

在那么多委托中，为了满足客户的需求，不断地调整自己，到最后你都不记得自己是谁了。

have in so many commissions and answering the brief and twisting themselves a bit to suit what the client needs that in the end you can't remember who you are.

我觉得这是很常见的事情。

Think it's quite a common thing.

确实，当你陷入那种循环，比如我需要这份工作，我需要那份工作，我需要那一份。

Definitely, when you get stuck on the treadmill of like, I need this job, I need that job, I need that one.

我们前几天听到了一些难过的消息，对吧，Katie？

We had some sad news the other day, didn't we Katie?

哦，是的。

Oh, we did.

Walker Books。

Walker Books.

我们亲爱的朋友兼编辑，迪尔德丽·麦克德莫特去世了，她在出版界可是个响当当的人物，真是个了不起的人。

Our lovely friend and editor, Deirdre McDermott died, which she was such a huge name in publishing, just such a brilliant person.

她确实很了不起。

She was incredible.

她真是……

It was...

人们常说她是那种气场特别强的人，确实如此。每次去沃克图书的办公室，她总是那么出色。

When people talk about people being larger than life like she was when you went to the Walker Books office, She was just incredible.

她会给你讲最精彩的故事，聊起各种人物，而且她也是最能鼓励人的人之一。

She would tell you the most amazing stories, talk about people, and also one of the most encouraging people as well.

她真的，她……

Like, she was so She

她太特别了。

was so special.

她做出了很多很棒的书。

She made some incredible books.

《猫头鹰宝宝》就是她做的。

She was behind Owl Babies.

克里斯·霍顿的那些书也都是她做的，这在当时可不多见。

She's done all of the Chris Horton books, which so unusual for the time.

那种画风在当时非常少见。

That type of artwork was so unusual.

她不怕冒险。

She didn't mind taking risks.

她还跟贾维斯和克洛伊·萨维奇合作过，克洛伊特别厉害。

She's worked with Jarvis and Chloe Savage, who is absolutely brilliant.

当然，还有她的得力助手玛丽亚·特尼。

And, of course, her right hand woman, Maria Tunney.

她也很了不起。

She's incredible.

幸好我们还有……

Thank goodness we have the...