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欢迎收看《足球世界的精彩与槽点》。
Welcome to the good, the bad, and the football.
在我们开始之前，非常感谢大家上周对史蒂夫·麦克拉伦的所有评论。
Before we get going, thank you so much for all your comments last week with Steve McLaren.
那期播客真的很棒。
It was a really good pod that.
但这周回归了，我们开始吧。
But back this week, here we go.
三个阿米戈斯。
The three Amigos.
后场三人组。
Back three.
回来
Back
三
three.
在这儿
Here
他来了。
he is.
尼基重新启用了三中卫。
Nicky bought back three.
而且后防线，你们俩我都想念。
And back miss you miss you both.
你看起来真棒，伙计。
You look lovely pal.
不过你的肤色看起来很不错。
You've got a lovely bit of color, though.
你去哪儿了？
Where have you been?
去做了喷雾美黑。
Went to your spray tan.
是的
Yeah.
把女孩带出去搭帐篷了。
Got the girl out with a tent.
是的
Yeah.
去南非旅行了一小趟。
Went for a little trip in South Africa.
非常棒。
Very nice.
从小就一直想过去，记得小时候踢足球的时候，那是一次很棒的小假期。
Always wanted to go when remember we was kids when we was younger with football, but a nice little little holiday there.
非常非常好。
Was very, very nice.
不是工作，是休闲。
Not work pleasure.
乐趣。
Pleasure.
当你能
It's nice, ain't it, when you
做到的时候，真好，不是吗？
can do
在中间
that in middle of a
你打过台球吗？
Did you play pool?
赛季。
Season.
没打过台球。
Didn't play pool.
没有。
No.
总是有个不错的开始。
It's always one not bad start.
这就是我无法进行销售对话的原因。
That's why I can't a sales conversation.
说不出口。
Can't say.
他带着他的珍珠Q和口香糖走了。
Took his took his Pearl Q and chomp with him.
真美好。
It's lovely.
我度过了非常愉快的时光。
I had a lovely lovely little time.
好的。
Okay.
美好
Lovely
短暂的时光。
little time.
非常愉快。
Was very nice.
你永远不知道什么时候我会碰到他。
You never know when I might bump into him.
我的意思是，小心点。
I mean, careful.
哦，
Oh,
天啊。
god.
对。
Right.
好吧，我们直接进入正题吧。
Well, let's get straight into it.
这场德比战，热刺对阵阿森纳。
This Derby game, Spurs against Arsenal.
我们稍后再谈阿森纳的夺冠机会。
Now we'll talk about Arsenal's title chances in a sec.
几周前，我们还在节目中讨论过排名榜首的问题。
Boy, a few weeks ago, we were talking on air about top numb.
当时觉得他们绝不可能降级。
There's no chance they go down.
现在你的看法有改变吗？
Have have your opinions changed on that now?
是的。
Yeah.
他们现在有点麻烦，不是吗？
They're in a bit of trouble, haven't they?
我觉得那时候西汉姆真的表现得很挣扎。
I think at that time, West Ham West Ham really struggled.
他们最近稍微好了一点。
They they've picked up a little bit.
森林队之前一度偏离了轨道。
Forest Forest were away from it a little bit.
现在他们显然又回来了。
Now they've obviously come back into it.
所以。
So
前几天对利物浦也挺倒霉的。
Unlucky the other day against Liverpool as well.
是的。
Yeah.
利物浦。
Liverpool.
是的。
Yeah.
利物浦表现很棒，但我认为杰米·卡拉格说他们简直是毫发无损地逃过一劫。
Liverpool were great, but I think Jamie Carrigo said they got away with murder.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
我觉得确实如此。
I think they did.
他们运气非常好。
They were very lucky.
但没错，我认为他们现在真的陷入麻烦了。
But, yeah, no, I think they're right in right in trouble.
还剩下十场比赛。
There's 10 games left.
他们得去安菲尔德踢球，我想。
They've got to go to Anfield, I think.
他们能去维拉公园吗？
Could they go to Villa?
他们还得去切尔西？
They've gotta go to Chelsea?
切尔西是个大挑战，我觉得。
Chelsea is a big one, I think.
他们做事的方式也是如此，他们的比赛方式。
It's the way the way they're doing that as well, the way they're playing.
你想啊，昨天新教练刚上任，通常第一件事应该是让我们变得难以被击败，但结果却恰恰相反。
You think yesterday when a new a new manager comes in, the first thing you'd probably do, try and make us hard to beat, it was like the opposite.
但这话说起来太容易了。
But it's so easy to say.
关于曼联，当卡里克接手后的第一场比赛，就是这种重大赛事，对阵曼城，你知道的，还有阿森纳这类比赛，而你在想，对于热刺来说，新教练上任，他们最想要的就是在主场进行一场重要的德比战，阻止他们最大的对手继续前进并赢得冠军。
About United when Carrick took over in the first game, this big game, City, you know, Arsenal kind of games, and you're thinking with Tottenham, with a new manager coming in, the game that they want is the big derby game at home stopping their big rivals going on and winning the title.
如果你仔细想想，这简直是完美的剧情设定，而他们却退缩了。
That that's perfect storyline if you think, and they just quivered.
他们直接就垮掉了。
They just just died.
而且尽管他们说有12名球员缺阵，显然球队因伤病严重减员，但你刚才说的，我认为是对的。
And and even though they're saying, like, oh, there's 12 players out, and, obviously, they are decimated of injuries, but still, what you just said, I think, is true.
你会全力以赴的。
You're gonna go you're gonna give it everything.
如果他们输了，那也是情理之中的。
If they look, if they get beat, it's what's expected.
是的。
Yeah.
但关键在于你是怎么输的，因为当我们比赛时，如果你在比赛末段被击败，你拼尽了全力，却还是被更强的队伍击败，球迷们就会觉得就像奎弗和雷特一样，完全垮了。
But it's the way you get beat, and it's because when we play it's the way if you get beat and you get beat on the floor at end of the game, you put a real shift in and you've just been beat by a better team, then the fans are like it was just like Quiver and Rhett.
他们就这样垮掉了，
They just died and
看起来太糟糕了，不是吗？
It looked terrible, isn't
太糟糕了。
so bad.
如果你是托普曼队的球迷，看了这场比赛，你会回家觉得我们处境非常危险。
If you're a topman fan watching that, you're you're going home thinking we are in serious trouble.
你知道吗？我觉得他们请来的这位主教练人选，我知道这只是临时的，对。
And do you know, I think the choice of manager they brought in, and I know it's an interim Yeah.
但他根本不了解英超联赛。
But he just doesn't know the Premier League.
我当时走进去的时候，萨姆，我就在想，这地方是不是……对。
I I I just I was walking in there, Sam, I was like, is there Yeah.
我觉得这一切都明显写着他的风格。
Thinking that's just got him written all over it.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do know what I mean?
是的。
Yeah.
他可能在加入一支球队后，做的第一件事就是阻止球队输球。
Just thing he probably does as a club, when he goes into a team, stop us getting beat.
所以他就是要阻止我们丢球机会。
So he's stop us conceding chances.
他可能根本不在乎其他方面，比如进球得分，因为托特纳姆热刺队里毕竟有足够的实力，总能在某个时刻为你进个球，哪怕是靠定位球。
He probably wouldn't care about the rest of it, about scoring goals because there's enough quality in that Tottenham Tottenham team at some point to get you a goal or whether it's even a set piece.
让我们变得难以击败？
Make us solid to beat?
我看到一个数据，昨天比赛大约进行到五十四十分钟时，托特纳姆热刺队在自家禁区内只触球了一次。
I saw I think there was a stat after about five forty minutes yesterday that Tottenham had touched the ball once in their penalty box.
阿森纳队当时只有，大概，24次触球。
Arsenal had had, like, 24 touches.
你看到了吗？
Did you see that?
这太疯狂了，对吧？
It's bonkers, isn't it?
是的。
Yeah.
太不可思议了，而且你还是在客场。
Incredible, and you're away from home as well.
这太不可思议了。
It's incredible.
而且你还是作为临时主教练，真的如此。
And as an interim manager as well, you're there, really.
你就像一块创可贴，不是吗？
You're a sticky plaster, aren't you?
就像你刚才说的关于大萨姆那样，你希望有人进来，先止住流血。
So you like you just said about Big Sam, you want someone who's just gonna come in, stop the bleeding
是的。
Yeah.
即使表现可能不漂亮。
Even though it might not be pretty.
是的。
Yeah.
但这个家伙
But this guy
我知道这小伙子已经在尤文图斯这样的大俱乐部干过两次了，对吧？
And I know know the lad's done it twice at big clubs at Juventus and is it?
拉齐奥应该也是在同一联赛吧。
Lazio was all, I think, in the same league.
他做过同样的事，作为临时教练表现非常出色，但来到英超就不同了。
He's done the same thing, and they've gone his interim and done really well, but coming to the Premier League is different.
他显然是个非常优秀的教练，但我认为你给这种动态带来了一种临时性的因素。
He's obviously a very good coach, but I think you bring an interim margin to that dynamic.
你只是想找个能凝聚更衣室的人。
You just want someone to galvanize changing rooms
是的。
Yeah.
让每个人都进入状态，愿意为你拼命。
Get everyone into a position where you want them running through walls for you.
听起来可能有点疯狂，但带他们出去短途旅行一次，重新建立团队凝聚力，让他们愿意一起踢球，愿意为彼此赴汤蹈火。
Sounds crazy, but go and take them for a little trip away and then get the the the camaraderie back together and let them run wanna play together, wanna run through brick walls for each other.
我只是不觉得那位教练会这么做。
I just don't see that that manager doing that.
我只是觉得那位教练会去训练场指导他们，这是必须做的。
I just I see that manager going and getting them on a coaching pitch, which you have to do.
别误会，当你有一位教练时，但首先最重要的是，你必须激励更衣室，让他们团结一致。
Don't get me wrong when you got bit of coach as But first and foremost, you've gotta galvanize that changing rooms and get them all together.
你看过他的采访了吗？
Did you see his interview?
那是在暗示他们昨天并没有在争吵。
It it was intimating that they they weren't fitting off yesterday.
你看到你看到了吗
Did you see did you see
发生了什么，他已经有点孔蒂的样子了。
what happened He's got a bit Conte already.
这又发生了。
It's only happened again.
不过，你看到两周前发生了什么吗？
Did you see what happened two weeks ago, though?
没有。
No.
当他们解雇托马斯·弗朗特时，他们给了
When when they sacked Thomas Front, they gave
球员们五天假期。
the players five days off.
他们是谁？
Who's they?
不管是谁的支持总监，我觉得应该是他。
Whoever's whoever's the supporting director, I would've thought it would've been.
可能是五天假期。
It was probably five days off.
我们都躺在床上。
We all everyone on beds.
五天假。
Five days off.
你看，那个俱乐部已经陷入困境很久了，不是吗？
Look, look, that club has been in a bad place for a while, hasn't it?
而且如果你
And if you
看看他们现在的情况，你能吗？
look at what they've in now, can you?
不能。
No.
不是这样的。
It's not.
它是
It's
不是。
not.
他们现在麻烦大了，不是吗？如果
They're in big trouble, aren't If
你看看俱乐部周围的情况，你知道的，体育场的建造方式，他们从比赛日收入（比如NFL或其他活动）中获得的资金，训练基地，一个庞大的俱乐部，但没有俱乐部是太大而不能倒的。
you look at what's going around what goes around the club, you know, the way the stadium's been built, the the money they bring in from match day revenue with NFL or whatever they're doing, the training complex, a massive club, but no clubs too big.
我在纽卡斯尔的时候，我们降级了，在我看来那是个大俱乐部。
I was at Newcastle when we went down, and that is a big club in my opinion.
我们当时考虑的是大概六、七场比赛。
And we was thinking towards about six, seven games.
我们不会降级的。
We're not gonna go down.
我正在看那边。
I'm I'm looking over there.
那边有迈克尔·欧文、迈克·瓦杜克、达维安·达夫，所有这些出色的球员遍布赛场，然后他在接近尾声时把阿兰·希勒也带了进来。
There's Michael Owen, Mike Vadouk, Davian Duff, all these great players all over the show, and then he brought Alan Shearer in towards the end.
你可能会想，我们不会降级。
There's one you're thinking, we're not gonna go down.
我们太优秀了，不可能降级，但没有任何球队是优秀到不会降级的。
We're just too good to go down, but there's no team too good to go down.
因为一旦你失去了这种团结，一旦你失去了那种必须保级、在球场上拼死奋战的信念。
Because once you lose that that togetherness, once you lose that, we need to stay up and and and die on that football pitch.
当你失去它之后，就很难再找回来了。
When you lose that, it's really difficult to get it back.
确实如此。
It is really
你提到在纽卡斯尔的经历，这很有趣。
It's interesting just where you're saying that, your time at Newcastle.
那你当时是在看那些进球吗？
So what were you looking right at them plays?
现在你可能会说热刺，你刚才提到的那些球员，但你现在都忘了，因为他们现在全都受伤了。
Now you could argue Spurs, then players you just said, then you forget about that, haven't got that because everyone's injured at the minute.
但你是什么时候意识到自己作为球员真的要降级的呢？那时候你是不是觉得，哦，我们真的要降级了？
But what are you when does he sink in as a player where you go, oh, actually, we are gonna go down?
那在纽卡斯尔的时候到底发生了什么？
Like, what what happened at Newcastle?
你肯定在某个时刻，我不是说积分榜上的分数，而是作为球员，你们已经感觉到不对劲了。
You must have, at some point I'm not on about the points on the board, but you as players, you've gone without it.
没有。
No.
我认为，除非事情已经发生了，否则你不会真的产生这种想法。
I don't think you get to a point where you think that until it's obviously it's happened.
是的。
Yeah.
你总是先审视自己，想着，我是不是没做好？
You always think that you look at yourself, first and foremost, if and you think, I'm not doing this right.
我踢得不够好。
I'm not playing well enough.
我训练时做得对吗？
Am I doing anything training right?
我生活得对吗？
Am I living right?
我吃得对吗？
Am I eating right?
我恢复得对吗？
Am I recovering right?
你试图在自己身上把所有方面都做到位，希望别人都在做同样的事，我确信他们也都是这样做的。
You try and tick all the boxes within yourself, hoping that everybody else is doing the same thing, and I'm pretty sure they would have been.
但当你陷入低谷时，你自己心里是清楚的，对吧？
But you get to a point when you're in a rut, and it's in you know?
很难起步
Hard to get
很难从中走出来。
of It's hard to get out of it.
当你陷入低谷时，无论你身边有谁、自己有多优秀，都很难从中走出来。你总希望场上的队友能在某个时刻拉你一把，但这并不总是会发生。
When you get in a rut, no matter who you got and how good you are, it's really tough to get out of it, and you're hoping that the players somewhere on the line will drag you out of it, and it doesn't always happen.
当我在纽卡斯尔遇到这种情况时，我不介意承认，我自己也是导致球队降级的部分原因。
And when it happened to me at Newcastle, I don't mind saying I was part of the reason why I went down.
你知道的，那个赛季我表现并不好，没有发挥出应有的水平。
I weren't great, you know, for that season and didn't didn't perform to my level.
我本应做得更好，队里其他小伙子们也一样。
I should have done the rest of the lad didn't as well.
教练更换得太频繁了。
The managers got changed too often.
你看，虽然我们有种种借口，但当我们踏上足球场，场上有我们11个人，我们应该能战胜那些击败我们的多数球队。
You know, if you look at all these excuses, but when we go into a football pitch and there's 11 of us on that football pitch, we should have beat most of the teams we're getting beat by.
是的。
Yeah.
所以回答这个问题，帕蒂，我没有在回避，真的没有。
So the answer the question, Patty, I'm not I'm not ducking it, honestly.
我不知道我们怎么会落到那个地步，你看看那个坑，就是行不通。
I don't know how we ended up there, because you look at the pit, it just didn't work.
而当你陷入困境，试图像那样爬出来时，真的太难了。
And when you get to a a rut to try and climb out of it like that, it's so hard.
你客场作战，有一群难以置信的随队球迷支持，却依然无法
You're going away from home, and you got a traveling set of fans that are unbelievable, and you still can't
摆脱这种局面。
get rid say that.
纽卡斯尔是一家规模庞大的俱乐部。
It's a massive club, Newcastle.
球迷支持度极高。
Great support.
他们引进了阿兰·希勒，他可是顶级球员。
They bring in Alan Shearer, who's got up there.
当时我看到这一切时，我就在想，他们不会降级的。
And when I saw all that at the time, I'm thinking, they're not going down.
是的
Yeah.
但它它
But it it
所以这并不是我的第一个夜晚。
so this didn't have my first night.
他打了多少场比赛？
Games did he have?
没打多少场比赛。
Didn't have loads of games.
我想可能是六到七场。
Think it might have been seven, six, seven.
我觉得不是
I don't think it was
所有这些事情，我仍然觉得
all still think with all those stuff,
你会想，哦，他们会
you think, oh, they'll
没事的。
be alright.
还有尼基提到的那些球员。
And and the players Nikki mentioned that as well.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
当你回过头看，会想
When you look back, think
当时还有哪些球队在
Who was the other teams in
那个降级大战中？
and around it then in that relegation battle?
我想不起来了。
I can't remember.
我真的想不起来了。
I can't I can't remember, honestly.
我只记得我们主场对阵米德尔斯堡。
I just remember it was like we played Millersborough at home.
我觉得我们是平了或者赢了。
I think we drew or won.
我想不起来了。
I can't remember.
我的意思是，当时我们觉得已经没戏了。
I mean, thinking, right, we're out of it.
然后你又被拖了回去，最后输了。
And you get dragged back into it, then you get beat.
客场对维尔达，那是最后一场比赛。
Vilda away, it was the final game.
我们在那里输了。
We got beat there.
我记得回程的时候，那个赛季即将结束，我当时想，我的职业生涯结束了。
And I remember traveling back, and I was retiring that that end of that season, and I was thinking that's me done.
我实在对球场提不起兴趣了。
I couldn't really get about the pitch.
你知道的，当你达到某个阶段，你会觉得我在这儿丢人现眼了。
You know what it's like, called when you get to a point, you think I'm embarrassing myself here.
我飞了回来，我们一路飞回纽卡斯尔，第二天开了个会。
And I was flying I flew we flew all the way, flew back up to Newcastle, and then we had a meeting the next day.
我只记得这件事带来的影响，并不是指丢掉工作，因为大多数球员都有合同。
I just remember the effect that it had not on was in the sense of losing jobs because most lads have contracts.
我的合同到期了。
My contract was up.
迈克尔·欧文的合同也到期了。
Michael Owen's contract was up.
所有球员的合同都到期了。
All the players' contracts were up.
我想，达蒙·达夫的合同也到期了。
Damon Duff, I think, was up.
那就是他们闹翻的时候，对吧？
That's when they fell out, wasn't it?
是的。
Yeah.
迈克尔和艾伦。
Michael and Allen.
你当时在想，
And you're thinking,
这听起来不错，对吧？
that's all well and good, isn't it?
因为足球运动员可以去别的地方踢球，这是一项非常自私的运动，但他们并不明白，你知道的，那些穿球衣的人会被解雇。
Because footballers can go and play other places, and it's a very selfish sport, but they're not back, like, don't understand on, you know, the kit People be on the sacked.
天啊，看着人们被解雇，你心里想，这他妈真是太糟糕了。
The shit, people getting sacked on, and you're going, oh, this is actually fucking horrendous.
球迷们排队等着，朝你扔东西，对你冷嘲热讽。
The fans are queuing up, throwing stuff at you, slacking you off.
确实，我们表现不够好，但那时我跟前妻特德谈过，我说：哪怕他们可能不希望我留下，因为我踢得并不出色，我也得再待一年。
Rightly so, we weren't good enough, but I knew then, spoke to my ex wife, Ted, and I said, need to do another year, even though they probably didn't want me to because I weren't playing great.
我只是
I just
觉得不行。
felt like No.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，我们不能降级，而我却不在一支努力保级的球队里。
I was like, we had to I couldn't get relegated and not be part of a a team trying to back up.
这多少说明了
Shows a bit about
你的品格。
your character.
第二个赛季是在英冠联赛。
Second season was in championship.
这很奇怪，因为我们以100分的优势赢得了冠军。
It was weird because we we won it by a 100 points.
这是我们俱乐部首次以100分左右的优势重返顶级联赛。
It was the first club to get back up a 100 odd points.
而整个城市的感觉是，因为我们赢下了每一场比赛，都忘了我们是在英冠联赛。
And the feeling around the city, because we're winning every game, forget it was in championship.
是的。
Yeah.
但那可能是我在那里表现最好的一个赛季。
But it was if it was my best season there.
我们获得了机会。
We got open.
那真的非常好。
It was it was really good.
但降级那段，回到托特纳姆热刺，你知道，他们真的陷入困境了，不管你是什么规模的足球俱乐部都没用。
But the going down bit, going back to Tottenham, know, they're in real trouble, and it don't matter how big of a football club you are.
他们看起来正走上他当年那样的路。
They look like they're in that route that way he was in.
你觉得，像热刺这样的俱乐部，妮基刚才说的那些可能丢掉工作的人，你有没有想过他们？
Do you think, like, with Spurs, what what Nikki was just saying then about all these people who who could possibly lose lose the jobs, people you don't even think about?
前几天那场比赛，因为一开始我看着球场，看着热刺球迷，我就觉得他们今天一定会赢。
That game the other day, because what I when it started, I looked at at the ground and the and the Spurs fans, and I felt they're gonna do this today.
那场比赛给我一种特别的氛围。
It just had that energy about it for me.
但接着你看到他们的表现。
And but then you see the performance.
作为球员，你刚打完比赛，怎么面对那些人？
So as a player, you're coming off the what what what you how do you look people in the eye?
那你该怎么跟队友或者周围的人说呢？
Like, what do you say to your teammates or the people around you?
你只能说，毕竟他们并没有拼尽全力，也没有在每一次对抗中都全力以赴。
You kinda go because it's not as though they've run the socks off and put every single thing in in every challenge.
是的。
Yeah.
听好了。
Look.
就在那场比赛中。
During that game.
说他们没有努力，这很难说得出口。
It's it's difficult to say they're not trying.
我觉得他们可能确实是在努力的。
I think they are probably trying.
我只是觉得他们的水平还不够好。
I just don't think they'll have a quality that's that's good enough.
你之前提到过，他们所遭受的伤病情况简直荒谬，球员之间的缺乏配合更是
You you mentioned before the injuries they've got is is ridiculous, and the lack of organization between the players is just
有很多空位球员。
it's lot open players.
就在那儿。
There.
我认为这才是最关键的一点。
I think that's the biggest point.
当你处于困境时，成功的关键是——嗯。
I think success when you're struggling Mhmm.
这并不是一两个球员各自为战、表现突出就能解决的。
It isn't about one or two players going and doing their own thing and doing well.
而是要让整个团队凝聚起来，而且你之前提到的比分，正好一语中的——当你引进像萨姆这样的人时。
It's about getting to team together, and and the scores hit the nail on the head before you brought in someone like a Sam.
他们最大的优势，如果你问过任何在萨姆或类似风格教练手下踢过球的人，就是能凝聚起团队精神，是的。
They they they're their biggest if you speak to anybody who's played under Sam or them kind of margins, their biggest strength is getting that team spirit together Yeah.
并且为彼此而战，为彼此拼抢。
And fighting for each other and scrapping for each other.
他们在博尔顿就做到了，还记得吗？
They did it at Bolton, remember?
他们作为球员很糟糕，而且除了奥科蒂亚和某些其他球员外，他们并不是一支优秀的队伍，但他们打球很拼命，因为他们能为了彼此拼尽全力。
They were horrible at players, And they weren't apart from, obviously, Okotia and certain other players, they weren't a great squad, but they were horrible at playing because they could run through brick walls for each other.
我昨天看了托特纳姆的比赛，他们只是在各自为战，看起来就像你要说的那样，他们会垮掉，因为他们不是一个团队。
And I looked at Tottenham games yesterday, and it's just doing individual little bits, and they're like you going, they're gonna go under because they're not a team.
他们根本就不是一个团队。
They're not a team at all.
他们就像无头苍蝇一样乱转。
They're around like headless chickens Yeah.
试图各干各的，这样下去结局
Trying to do their own thing, and it's gonna end
会很糟糕。
up bad.
你在几期之前的播客里说过一句话，我真的很赞同。
You said something quite a few podcasts back, which I I really agree with.
我想我们都同意这一点，你说你宁愿身边是那些全力以赴、能打七八分的球员，而不是一个只在状态好时才发挥的九分或十分球员。
I think we all agreed it, where you were saying you'd rather have players around you who were, like, seven, eight out of 10, but given everything than a a nine or a 10 out of 10 who's only gonna turn up or be in sweet.
那些大球队里的九号和十号球员，他们能为球队赢得胜利。
The tens out of the the nine and tens in the big teams, they win you things.
不对。
No.
他们确实如此。
They really do.
他们能赢得冠军。
They win your championships.
他们赢得了你们的欧冠联赛。
They win your champions leagues.
他们拿的是像薪水这样的东西，或者，你知道的，名字价值数百万或数百万人。
They they take something like a salary or, you know, name millions or hundreds of them.
他们为你赢得荣誉。
They they win you things.
是的。
Yeah.
但当你处于底层时，你的队伍里并没有多少这样的球员。
But when you're at that bottom level, you don't have many of them in your team.
你有的是一些显然很出色的球员，但他们都是工作狂。
You have lads that are obviously good footballers, but they are workaholics.
他们为了球队能冲破砖墙，而且能支撑住你。
They run through brick walls for the and they keep you up.
我跟你说，别管别人怎么说。
I'm telling you, don't care what anybody says.
我经历过那种境况。
I've been at the ball fence.
我曾经和那些赢下荣誉的球员一起踢球，比如坎通纳、斯科尔斯、吉格斯。
I've played with that hen when you win stuff, and you see the likes of you know, a Cantona, a Skolz, a Giggs.
这些球员能为你赢得比赛。
These these play that can win your games.
但我在那个级别踢过球，我宁愿要10或11名球员，他们可能只是六七分水平，但能全场拼抢奔跑，勉强取得结果，因为在那样的比赛中你需要的就是这个。
But I've played at that level, and I would prefer 10 or 11 players that are just gonna be six, seven out of tens that can battle and run all over the show and scrape results because that's what you need in them games.
现在谈到阿森纳，你想到埃泽，这是个很好的切入点。
That's a good point to talk about Arsenal now you think of Eze.
是的。
Yeah.
他他去了一个地方看看。
He he's he's gone to a look.
他已经离开水晶宫了。
He's gone from Crystal Palace.
我不是说他们会考虑降级，因为他去年显然赢得了足总杯。
I'm not saying they think about relegation because, obviously, he won the FA Cup last year.
我度过了一个不错的赛季，但那本该是很多年的事。
I had a good season, but it would have been years.
他现在只想着保级。
He's just thinking about surviving.
现在他来到了一家我预期能赢得联赛冠军的俱乐部。
Now he's come to a club that that I expect to probably expect to win the league.
所以他的表现水平必须提升到另一个层次。
So his level of performance has got to go to a different level.
就像，他是一名出色的球员，但我想在昨天之前，他上一次进球还是在首场对阵热刺的比赛中。
Like, he's a brilliant player, but I think before yesterday, his last goals were against Tottenham in the first in the first game.
他已经离开了
He's gone
实际上是对阵热刺
actually against Tottenham.
是的。
Yeah.
显然，他自那以后就没射正过
He's apparently, he's not had a shot on target since
我知道当你听到这种话时会觉得疯狂
I know it's crazy when you hear
像这样的事情。
stuff like that.
一旦他，正如我说的，去了一个大俱乐部，人们期待他赢得联赛。
Once he like I say, he's gone to a big club now where you expect him to win a league.
他的状态必须变得更好。
That has that form has got to be better.
你必须从可能每五到六场比赛才有一场出色表现，
You've got to go from maybe he's having one good performance in five or six games.
变成现在每六场比赛中有四到五场表现出色。
Now that's got to be four or five out of six games.
你必须提升到下一个层次，才能赢得比赛，赢得联赛。
You have to go to that next level to win your games, to win your leagues.
我总是用弗兰克·兰帕德的方式来想这个问题。
I always think of Frank Lampard in that way.
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我以为他赢得了球队最重要的一场比赛，这让他与众不同，从而去赢得冠军。
I thought he he won his team's game of games of football, which made him different to go and win Yeah.
赢得联赛。
Win leagues.
想想我们的球队，当你看范佩西的时候
Think and our teams, when you look at Van Persie
那一年，
that year,
那是克里斯蒂亚诺、瑞恩·吉格斯、埃里克·坎通纳，就像尼克·尼基提到的那样。
it was Christiano, Ryan Giggs, Eric Kanso, as Nick Nikki mentioned.
有很多球队都有一个关键球员，能帮助他们突破极限，每周都赢得比赛。
There's so many teams who have a talisman to get you over that line and win your games of football every week.
他必须达到那个水平。
He's got to get to that level.
我们坐在这里，一直批评自己，不是吗？
We we've sat here and and we've criticized our ass, aren't we?
人们会说他们关键时刻掉链子之类的。
And people will say about them bottling it and stuff.
我不认为他们掉链子。
I don't think they bottle it.
我真的不这么认为。
I genuinely don't.
我认为在比赛的后期阶段，你需要经验来帮你跨过那道线。
I think what happens in them latter stages is you need experience to get you over that line.
我认为，如果我错了请纠正我，好像只有耶稣赢过，是吧？
And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think there's only Jesus has won it, is there, I think?
是的。
Yeah.
曼城。
City.
是的。
Yeah.
我以为他有很多，其实只有一个。
His one of my thought it was many.
有人吗
Is anybody
他并没有回避每一个
He's else not eschewing every
周末，他们昨天做了什么？热刺表现糟糕，但在那场比赛之前，阿森纳的小伙子们赢了，谁也没想到。
weekend, What is they did yesterday, I Tottenham were terrible, but before that game, Arsenal lads won wasn't to know that.
这对他们来说是伦敦北部的一场重要比赛。
It's a big London North on Darwin for them.
他们赢了，然后出局了，他们推迟了
They got and they've gone out, and they they put off
他们真的很棒。
They're really good.
他们以一场压倒性的4比1胜利获胜，再次成为夺冠热门。
They put an emphatic four one win winning and made themselves favorites again to go Can I
我能问你们两个关于这个问题吗？
ask both a question just on that?
好吧，再问一次，作为一个观看比赛的球迷，你刚才说到他们赢得联赛、心态以及其他一切？
Well, again, just as a fan watching it, where you were saying about them winning the league and the mentality and everything else?
只有耶稣在曼城取得了那样的成功。
And only Jesus is is is that success at City.
当德克兰·赖斯在后场那样做，把球丢掉导致失球时，这就是你刚才说的意思吗？
When Declan Rice did that at the back, give the ball away for the goal, is that exactly what you're on about?
比如，在一比零这种比分下试图盘带时，你不会做那种事情。
Like, you don't do things like that during games like at one nil when you're trying to dribble.
不会。
No.
我知道。
I know.
但这会不会太天真了？
But is it naive?
这难道是因为他没有戴队长袖标吗？但我认为德克兰·赖斯这样的球员，看到别人这么做肯定会大声斥责。
Is it like, because he didn't have the captain's arms ban, but I look at Declan Rice as a player who goes who'd be screaming at someone for doing something like that, though.
你肯定会说：传个球吧。
You'd be like, play the pass.
他一做完那个动作，就知道自己犯错了。
As soon he's done that, he knows he's made a mistake.
你知道的，他本可以直接把球大脚开出去，然后跑回场地。
You know you know, he might have just cleared it down the line and just get on the pitch and
我们都做过这样的事。
We we've all done
是的。
it.
我们都做过。
We've all done it.
是的。
Yeah.
就是这样，我们已经提到所有内容了。
It's just done that where we've mentioned everything.
是的。
Yeah.
这完全是出于本能。
It's just instincts.
你有时候还会想，他还会做些什么呢？
You you sometimes what else does he do though?
他是不是只是把球大脚踢出去发界外球，然后说你慌了，拿好球，明白我的意思吗？
Does he just boot out for a throw in and say, you you're you're panicking your ball and do what I mean?
是的。
Yeah.
你还是会尝试去控球。
You try and play.
无论你在什么位置、什么情况下，你每次都这么做，这已经成了你的习惯。
You you still do it every every time, and every situation you're in, and whatever part of the pitch you're in, that's you showed a conference to do that.
是的。
Yeah.
幸运的是他犯了个错误，我们都做过蠢事，不是吗？
Lucky he made a mistake, what we've all done stupid stuff, aren't.
不过当你取得四比一的比分时，人们就会忘记那一点了。
When you get a four one result, though, people forget about that then.
他们会这么做的。
They'll do it.
但如果那样的话，结果就会是一对一
But if that would have ended one one
是的
Yeah.
本来应该是这样的
It would have been it would been
确实如此
It is.
我在想
Wonder if
确实就是那样
Exactly was that.
是的。
Yeah.
你认为热刺会成为英超历史上被降级的最大的俱乐部吗？
Do you think Spurs will be the biggest Premier League club to ever be relegated?
显然，纽卡斯尔的情况并非如此。
Obviously, it aren't with Newcastle.
你会说是热刺还是纽卡斯尔？
Would you say Spurs or Newcastle?
我认为托特纳姆和纽卡斯尔之间实力很接近。
I think it's close between Tottenham and Newcastle.
而且这一切也都指向了这一点。
And it's for all leads into for all leads into that as well.
我认为托特纳姆热刺会是最大的。
I think I think Tottenham will be the biggest.
嗯，我不这么认为。
Well, it I don't.
如果从你支持纽卡斯尔的角度来看，你可能会这么说。
If what the classes are you might say that just because you play for Nickels.
我不知道。
I don't know.
但阿斯顿维拉也被降级了。
But Villa Villa got relegated as well.
他们是个大俱乐部。
They're a big club.
是的。
Yeah.
那么，你会认为哪个俱乐部比其他任何俱乐部都更大吗？
Well, do you class as being bigger than any club?
是指全球范围内的地位吗？
Is it worldwide status?
嗯，我觉得
Well, I I think
你觉得全世界的人会更熟悉托特纳姆热刺还是纽卡斯尔？
would you think people around the world would know Tottenham or Newcastle more?
纽卡斯尔。
Newcastle.
嗯，我我
Well, I I
我我我觉得纽卡斯尔联队，再加上尼基这件事，我认为他们是一个更大的——我觉得他们现在在热刺球迷心目中是一个比热刺更大的俱乐部。
I I I think Newcastle and with Nikki on that, I think that they're a bigger I think they're a bigger club person Spurs fans lately than Spurs.
但是从
But on
另一方面来说
the other side of things
全球范围内，因为他们位于首都伦敦，有伦敦、阿森纳和热刺之间的 rivalry。
worldwide, just because they're they're in the they're in the capital city, and it's just London and and Arsenal and Spurs and that rivalry.
从全球来看，热刺可能更出名。
Probably worldwide Spurs are probably
从历史角度来看，他们确实是。
history as well wouldn't They're
都会参与进来。
all gonna
会加入其中。
be getting into it.
我不知道。
Don't know.
你说的历史上，米勒是降级的最大俱乐部。
When you say in history, Miller are the biggest clubs that go down.
是的。
Yeah.
如果从历史来看，赢球才是关键。
If you go on history, win.
阿斯顿维拉有体力优势。
Villa have got legs.
你是个大牌教练，不是吗？
You're a big coach, isn't it?
但我认为，如果你再看看的话，
But I think I think if you check out the the But again,
森林队作为
Forest as
好吧。
well.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你看看的话，确实。
If you check out yeah.
森林队。
Forest.
森林队，看看最明显的那个。
Forest as Check out the obvious one.
看看最明显的顶级球队。
Check out the obvious top.
我觉得他们都处于下一个层级，不是吗？
I think they're all they're in that next level, aren't it?
所以是热刺、纽卡斯尔、利兹联、维拉。
So it's Spurs, a Newcastle, a Leeds, a Villa.
他们属于利物浦、曼联、曼城、阿森纳、切尔西之下的下一个梯队。
They're that next branch below the Liverpools, Man United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea.
我认为这就是下一个梯队。
I'd say that's the next bracket.
所以，我的意思是，你看。
So, I mean, look.
如果他们降级，他们会和任何其他降级的俱乐部一样庞大。
If they go down, they will be as big as any other club that's gone down.
你觉得他们现在的处境，以及当时解雇弗兰克这个决定，我知道现在这种临时教练的做法很普遍，但你难道不会直接引进一个人，说‘你就是主教练了’吗？
Do you think the position they're in and getting rid of Frank when they did, I know this is like the trend now with these interim managers, but surely you just bring in and go, this is gonna be your manager.
他签的是两年合同。
He's on a two year contract.
因为这些球员，即使有很多伤病，作为球员，你也会想：‘他们又请了个临时教练。'
Because them players, again, even though there's, like, a lot of injuries, you know, as a player going, oh, they brought another geyser.
他只会待到赛季结束。
He's only gonna be here till end of season.
他就会走人。
He's gone.
你明白我的意思吗？
Like, do you you what I mean?
这种心理影响。
The psychology of that.
是的。
Yeah.
我明白你的意思。
I know what you mean.
看待这个问题有两种不同的方式，但我觉得曼联也做了同样的事情。
There's two two different ways of looking at it, but I suppose Man United have done the same.
你看。
Look.
他们在过去五场比赛中赢了四场。
They've won four out the last five games.
不过区别在于，他们请来了一位了解俱乐部的人。是的。
Difference with that, though, is they brought in someone who knew the club Yeah.
并且了解球迷，也知道对他的期望是什么。
And knows the fans and knows what's his expectations.
比如，我真不敢相信他们没有去找一位前热刺球员或教练，或者某个内部人士
Like, I can't believe they didn't go for an ex Spurs player or manager or someone in
很长一段时间。
span of lot.
我当时想，实际上，那是个不错的节目。
And I thought, actually, that's a that's a good show.
真不敢相信他不能同时效力这两家俱乐部。
Can't believe he's not he can't make both clubs.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
但我的意思是，像罗比·基恩这样的专家也是这样。
But what I'm saying, experts like Robbie Keane as well.
哦，他们会选一个像迈克尔这样的年轻球员，或者像罗比·基恩那样的。
Oh, they go for a young lad like a Michael, like a Robbie Keane.
是的。
Yeah.
或者他们会回头找像哈里·雷德纳普那样的人。
Or they go back for imagine Harry Redden out going.
想象一下球迷们跟着哈里一起回去的情景。
Imagine the fans going back there with Harry.
是的。
Yeah.
他们会士气高涨的。
They'd be they'd be up.
如果我是那家俱乐部的负责人或体育总监，我会想：我们是否需要一个人上场去指导这些球员？他们技术上显然非常出色，但需要有人来激励更衣室，重新强调基本防守——就像史蒂夫·麦卡恩上周谈到曼联时所说的防守那样。
And that's if I was in charge of that club or a sporting director, I would go, do we need someone to go on that football pitch and coach these players who are obviously very good technically and very good at, oh, see someone's come and galvanize a changing room and just put the basic defending Steve McCannes spoke about defending last week with with Man United.
这在任何俱乐部都一样。
That's at any club.
如果你能把基本防守做好，就希望那些少数的明星球员能站出来，帮你赢得比赛。
If you get that basics defending right, you hope a fewest little shining stars will go and get you to go.
如果他们引进像哈利或山姆这样的人，我会更有信心自己不会被降级，而不是现在这样。
If they brought somebody in like a Harry or a Sam or someone in that I'd be much more confident I'm not going down than I would be now.
是的。
Yes.
你知道吗？我觉得你说得对，但我们得给这位先生一些机会。
Did did did you know, I I think you're right there, but we've we've gotta give this fellow a chance somewhere.
是的。
Yeah.
我必须说，他的文化素养很差。
I must say he's bad culture.
他不是。
He's No.
他只踢了一场比赛，你看。
Had one game, look.
展望未来，他可能会表现不错，但我觉得有人该看看马丁·奥尼尔在凯尔特人队的情况，是吧。
Looking forward, he might do well, but I think someone look at what Martin O'Neill's on the Celtic Yeah.
知道这会是那种哈里类型的做法，对吧，就到赛季结束为止。
Knowing that that would be a Harry type of thing, wouldn't it, just till the end of the season.
但你说得对，关于球员的心态。
But you're right with players' mentality.
我打算看着他，觉得他明年不会表现好。
Do you I'm gonna look at him thinking he's not good next year.
我知道。
I know.
我在想，你知道，他说他已经做到了。
I'm wondering, you know, he said he's done it.
他有带领这些球队保级的成功记录。
He's he's got track record for doing it for keeping these teams up.
在那场比赛后立即说出那些话，感觉有点像是为了引发反应，但他所说的内容似乎有点太早了。
Coming out and saying what he did after that first game feels a little bit maybe he's doing it to get a reaction, but the things he said feels a little bit too soon.
就像孔蒂曾经 famously 说过的那样
Like, when Conte came out and kinda famously said
他所说的话。
what he said.
出去，帕特。
Out, Pat.
这已经被反复强调了。
It's just been hammered.
如果比分是4比1，本来可能变成6比7。
The the they were if it it was four one, it could have been six seven.
结果可能任何情况都有。
Could have been anything.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你的反应有点过头了。
So your reaction is a little bit.
现在他不可能每周都对阵阿森纳队。
Now he's not gonna play against an arsenal team every week.
是的。
Yeah.
你什么意思？
Do know mean?
他仍然会面对质量很高的球队。
He's still gonna play against good quality teams.
谁有
Who's got
下一个
the next
年？
year?
对。
Right.
我们不是有
Haven't us have
看一下？
a look?
乔治，你知道，所有临时教练，我当然——因为我总是关注着曼联或者纽卡斯尔之类的球队。
George, know, all the interim managers, I've certainly because I've me my eyes are always on either Man United or or a Newcastle or something.
显然，这两家俱乐部我都效力过，但多年来，很明显曼联一直在使用临时主帅。
Obviously, two clubs I played for, but over the years, it's obviously looking at Man United with the interims.
当临时主帅离任时，你会想看看看台然后感叹，哇。
When the interim manager walks out, you wanna see the stand and go, woah.
而这正是作为所有者所期望的提升，否则无论
And that's the lift that you want as an owner or else whether
这正是迈克尔所得到的。
Which is what Michael got.
迈克尔拿到了。
Michael got.
鲁德·范尼塞尔拿到了。
Rude Van Nissel got.
罗伊得到了。
Roy got.
奥利得到了。
Ollie got.
她也得到了。
She got.
瑞安得到了。
Ryan got.
这是一种心态，就是如何让球迷们振奋起来？
It it's a it's a mindset of get that how do we get the fans lifted in?
球迷们就会受到鼓舞。
The fans get lifted.
球员们从球迷那里获得了鼓舞。
The players get lifted from the fans.
我首先听到热刺球迷在聘请新教练时说，不喜欢这样，事情开始变得有点不对劲了。
It's all getting a bit the first thing I hear Tottenham fans say when they employ the the new manager was, don't like that.
不喜欢那样。
Don't like that.
他们没在咀嚼。
They're not chewing.
它就像一个侧面。
It was like a side
它就像，它就像，它就像，
It was like it was like it was like,
哦，平的。
oh, flat.
是的。
Yeah.
现在，再次强调，他显然是一位非常优秀的教练。
Now, again, he's obviously a very good coach.
我的意思是，他已经做到了。
I mean, he's done it.
他去过那里。
He's been there.
他做到了。
He's done it.
所以他或许能达到那个水平，但我的初步看法是在英超联赛中。
So he might get there, but my initial the Premier League.
是的。
Yeah.
最初的设想俱乐部是这样的。
The initial think clubs are.
最初的事情很多，是的。
The initial thing lots of Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
但对我来说最初的问题是，你怎么能在那个俱乐部得到提升？
But the initial thing for me is how do you get a lift at that club?
你如何才能把方向调对呢？
How do you somehow turn the needle to the right direction?
因为目前来看，完全不是这样。
Because at the minute, it's totally not.
我认为——也许我错了——用三年合同去上任、建立体系、开启这段旅程可能是对的，但接下来的三四个月，他们本该找一个能点燃球迷热情的人。
And I and I don't think and I might be wrong, I don't think that's the right it might be the right one for a three year deal to go and put things in place and go into that journey, but for the next three or four months, I think they should've gone and got someone who got the crowd up and buzzing.
你说三年任期这一点很有趣，因为现在看足球，我觉得没人能有这么长的时间。
It's interesting when you say about the three year thing as well because football now, when I watch it, I don't think anyone's got that length of time.
没错。
No.
你可能连胜六场，然后连输四场，所有人就都要求你下课。
You could go on a a runner winning six games on shot, and then you lose four, and everyone's calling for your blood.
阿莫林就是一个典型的例子，我记得我们之前提到过吉姆·拉特克利夫做那场采访的时候。
Well, Ameren was a prime example of that, when I remember we said earlier on when Jim Ratcliffe had done that interview.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，他有三年合同。
Oh, he's got three years.
是的。
Yeah.
绝无可能。
Not a chance.
是的。
Yeah.
合同都是浪费时间。
Contract contracts are a waste of time.
合同年限完全是浪费时间，因为让你保住职位的只有成绩。
A length of contracts are a complete waste of time, because the only thing that keeps your job is results.
是的。
Yeah.
当临时教练上任时，你得加上艾伦。
When an interim manager comes in, you add it with Alan.
第一次会面时他们对你说了什么？
What did they say to you on that first meeting?
我的意思是，如果他们知道自己是来接手两年任期的，这种理念会不会有所不同？
Like, what what's the kind of is it a different philosophy to if they knew they were coming in on a two
两年合同？
year contract?
我们一周前还提到过迈克尔。
We said it a week about Michael.
我觉得迈克尔做的事情并不容易。
I think it's not easy what Michael's doing.
迈克尔的工作表现简直无可挑剔，希望他能一直干下去。
Michael's doing an unbelievable job, and long may it continue.
但我说的是，这份工作容易的地方在于，他可以和每个人都成为朋友。
But when I say, see, the easy part of that job is it can be everyone's friend.
来吧，帕迪。
So it's come on, Paddy.
我认为你非常出色。
I think you're brilliant.
是的。
Yeah.
那个，那个最后被解雇的经理，你应该...如果我没猜错的话，你一直在为...你会去，就像，提升分数，你是亿万富翁。
That that toss the last the mass manager, you should've been if I didn't imagine you've been playing for and you're gonna go, like, lift Scores are, you're billion.
不。
No.
我希望你，我希望所有人都把球传给他，但你要让所有球员都放开手脚，让他们信心爆棚、昂首挺胸，这样你就赢得了所有人的友谊。
I want you to I want everyone to give him the ball, but you bring all them players out of the shell, you make them feel a million dollars and stick the chest out, and you've got everybody's friends.
现在如果你是热刺的主教练，我说的是热刺，就像他现在这样，虽然是临时的，但如果他要获得合同，他现在就要和体育总监讨论夏季想签哪些球员，而这事已经传出去了。
Now if you're the the manager of at Tottenham now, I'm talking about Tottenham, and like he is, obviously, interim, but if he was gonna get a contract, he's now having discussions with the sporting director about who he wants to sign in the summer, and that gets out.
如果有人试图取代我——斯科尔斯也会这么说，要取代我们三个人——你看着他心想，他是想让我为他赴汤蹈火。
And if someone's trying to replace me, and scores will say the same, replacing all of us three, you're looking at him and going, he wants me to go and run for a brick wall for him.
当然，并非所有球员都这样。
Now, not all players.
我不会那样做，他也不会那样做。
I wouldn't have been like that, and he wouldn't have been.
你有自己的骄傲，但有些球员会想：他在跟X、Y和Z谈话，他们都要取代我，他还想让我去给他撞墙。
You've got your own pride, but some player will go, he's talking to x, y, and z, and they're all gonna replace me, and he wants me to run for a Brit Wall for him.
所以，临时教练和长期教练的区别在于，你可以和他们做朋友，可以拍拍他们的背，可以和他们称兄道弟。
So that's a difference with an interim manager and a and a and a long term manager is that you can be their friend, you can pat them on the back, you can say you can be mates with them.
一旦你成为主教练，就必须立刻拉开距离。
The minute you become manager, you gotta go, woah, and move straight away from the net.
这对我来说是最棘手的部分。
That's the tricky part for me.
明白了。
Right.
那我们来说说阿森纳吧。
So let's get on to Arsenal.
这挺有意思的，不是吗？
It's it's it's interesting, ain't it?
在狼队那场平局之后，同样的压力也在他们身上积聚，因为还有很多比赛要打。
Same pressure was building on them after that draw at Wolves because there's still a lot of football to be played.
你觉得是不是我们这些局外人一直在谈论压力的问题？
Do you think it's all us on the outside saying about the pressure?
你觉得他们作为一个团队，环顾四周的人时会怎么想，你知道吗？
Do you think there, as a team, looking around at everyone around them and going, do you know what?
这真是支好球队，这位好教练。
Fucking good team, this good manager.
你觉得他们感受到那种压力了吗？
Do you think they're feeling that pressure?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
他们当然是。
Of course, they are.
他们正在接近那个状态，但已经很久没有做到了。
They're getting to that, but did not done it for a long time.
他们正在关注我们的比赛结果。
And they're watching our results.
我今天早上在广播里听到基翁激动得不得了，说
I've heard Keon on the radio, like, going mad this morning saying
他在作弊。
He's cheating.
他已经很久没这样了。
He's he's A long time.
当
When
当他们每周都赢的时候，嗯，不是说赢的时候。
when they when they win every week well, not when they win.
当他们这周赢了的时候，他激动得不得了。
When they won this week, he's going mad.
当他们每周都输的时候，他就会发疯，因为大家都在说他们是胆小鬼。
When they're losing every week, he's going mad because everyone's calling bottlers.
现在他抱怨有人称阿森纳是胆小鬼。
Now he's complaining about someone calling Arsenal bottlers.
唯一能被称为胆小鬼的球队，是那些位居联赛榜首的球队。
The the only team that can be bottlers are the team that are at the top of the league.
他们曾经一度领先九分。
They've had a nine point lead at some point.
所以他们是唯一能被称为胆小鬼的球队。
So they are the only team that can be bottlers.
我的意思是，如果他们最近几周有点动摇，是的。
I mean, if they're if they're wobbling a bit, like, have been the last few weeks Yeah.
但除了昨天之外，他们确实一直表现不稳。
But other than yesterday, they they have been wobbling.
你看到那个了吗？
Did you see that?
还是你听到了？
Or did you hear that?
我有这个
This I had
在一辆
it on a
车上。
car that.
而且是的。
And Yeah.
我没看到。
I didn't.
但我的情况是，当他有点被西蒙·乔丹激怒的时候，我想是萨姆·马特尔雷斯。
But but the thing with mine, when he was sort of getting a bit riled up with, Simon Jordan, I think it was Sam Matterface.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，我当时在听。
It well, I was listening,
而且我实际上自己。
and I actually himself.
不。
No.
我就这么想的。
That's what I thought.
如果你问所有术语的话。
I if you ask all the terminology.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
这仅仅是术语而已。
It's just terminology.
你知道吗？
Do you know what?
而且我会Gyocores，我知道这个，当你提到这个的时候，作为一个统计数据，刚才另一个，这个家伙有一次射正球门的机会，对阵前十名球队
And I'll Gyocores, I know this when you said about this, the as a stat, the other a minute ago, This one's got he's had one shot on target against top 10 top
本赛季的10支队伍。
10 team this season.
从昨天开始就很高兴。
Delighted from yesterday.
我不是个混蛋
I'm not an arse
我会的
I would.
他看起来
He seems like
我觉得他看起来是个不错的球员。
I think he seems like a decent player.
他进了两个球，因为他承受了很多非议和压力，虽然我不是阿森纳球迷不太清楚具体情况。
Scoring two goals because he's got he's had a lot of crap on it, a lot of pressure on him, and I don't know when I'm not Arsenal fans.
在我们所在的这个区域，你不太能听到阿森纳球迷对前锋有那么多批评，但他肯定没少挨骂。
You don't hear that much coming out of their in this area that we're in, but he must have had loads of sticking him off Arsenal fans about forwards.
他们派出的前锋一直在观察他，而他昨天的两次射门，都干净利落地命中了目标。
The forwards they have had looking at him, and his two finishes yesterday, he hit him clean as a whistle.
而且，你知道，没能上演帽子戏法确实有点令人失望。
And, you know, it's just disappointing to a hat trick.
你说到他，我觉得你会很喜欢和他一起踢球。
You say say about him, I think you'd love to play with him.
是的。
Yeah.
因为他从不开始跑动。
Because he he never starts running.
是的。
Yeah.
他牵制着他。
He occupies him.
他有像罗伊那样的品质，能吸引这类人吗？
Has he got the quality of a vanished to Roy and to call these type of people?
可能没有。
Probably not.
但正如尼基所说，你为他昨天的表现感到高兴。
But as as Nicky said, you're pleased for him yesterday.
在曼联，或者你曾经效力过的其他球队里，有没有人刚加盟时受到一些批评，但后来突然就爆发了？尼基。
Is there anyone at United or any any teams you've played as well, Nicky, where someone signed, and they've had a bit of stick at the beginning, and then they've just suddenly clicked in.
你之前提到了科拉。
You mentioned Kola before.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为他当时承受的不是什么批评，是的。
I think stick was not what he got Yeah.
来自球迷，因为球迷对他非常支持。
From the fans, because the fans were brilliant with him.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为是记者和那些报道者，当时还没有播客，但显然媒体在他刚加盟时没进球就对他冷嘲热讽，因为他是以射手身份被引进的。
I think the journalists and this reporters, there's no podcasters then, but obviously, the media were having a pop up cold when he first got not scoring a goal, because he brought in as a goal scorer.
我不记得有这回事。
So I don't remember that.
他的表现持续了多久？
What was the what was his run?
他花了一段时间才适应，我记得他曾在节目中说过，他花了点时间才找到自己的状态。
It took him a time to get, think he said it on air, then it took him a while to get his gold, what he was doing.
他正在成为一名更好的球员，但人们没看到这一点。
He was he was becoming a better footballer, but people didn't see that.
他们只会看到安迪·科尔，那个从纽卡斯尔带着大量进球来到曼联的九号射手，然后突然没球进了。
They'd have seen Andy Cole, the number nine goal scorer, coming from scoring loads of gold at Newcastle into Man United and drying up.
但他确实成为了曼联更好的团队球员。
But what he did do was he he became a much better team player at Man United.
是的。
Yeah.
我们说过这一点。
We said that.
我们在播客里提到过，但他直到我不太确定是哪一场比赛才真正爆发起来，你说的是丘吉尔那件事，是不是发生了转变之类的。
We said that on the podcast, but he didn't really get hit the ground running until I'm not I'm not quite sure what game it was when he it Churchill, the thing you were saying was it switched or something.
是三场、四场还是五场？
Was it for three or four or five?
我觉得他可能又进了五个。
I think he might five again.
他可能运气爆棚了。
I he might Lucky hell.
回过头来看已经是很久以前的事了，我不记得那是不是让他崛起的关键，但我很确定
The looking back's a long time ago, so I don't remember if that's the thing that set him up, but I'm pretty sure that
他是不是开始了一段持续表现出色的时期？
would He under went on a run like he was going.
哇。
Wow.
你认为现在Gjokres也会发生这种情况吗？
Do you think that's what's gonna happen with Gjokres now?
不会。
No.
我不认为吉奥克雷斯像科尔那样是个纯粹的得分手，完全不这么看。
I don't think Gjokres is an out and out goal scorer like Cole don't it at all.
在我看来，他就像你说的科尔、斯科尔斯那样，如果你打双前锋阵型，让他搭档一个纯粹的得分手，那就是梦之队了，但我不认为他自己就是个纯粹的得分手。
I see him as a like Cole like, Scholes, you said, if you're playing a two up front and you've got him with a goal scorer, you've got a you've got a dream team, but I don't I think don't see him with an out and out goal scorer.
昨天还踢了一场我见过最混乱的防守。
Played against the most disorganized defense you've ever seen yesterday as well.
是的。
Yeah.
这会对他有帮助。
That that'll help him.
如果他必须上场，而阿森纳在面对只顾防守、稳扎稳打的球队时确实很吃力。
If he's gotta play, And Arsenal do struggle against a team that just sit back and sit back and get in the shape.
阿森纳在这方面吃大亏。
Arsenal struggle big time.
你刚说的那点，我正想说呢。
Just just where you're saying that, because I was just gonna say it
我想对你们俩说，因为。
to both of you, because
你们俩在足球界真的都拿遍了所有荣誉。
you two have won it all really in the game.
你觉得现在的阿森纳队有那种冠军气质，能一路统治下去吗？
Do you think that Arsenal side now have that championship thing about them where they're gonna go on and dominate?
我能不能先说一句，让马丁·基翁先激动一下？
Can I say something just to get Martin Keown going against first?
你觉得如果阿森纳是这支队伍，最差的球队也能赢得联赛吗？
Do you think this will do do you you still think that the worst teams win the league if they was Arsenal?
那有点像是
That was a bit of a
一种说法。
statement.
是的。
Yeah.
我并没有对阿森纳印象深刻，一定得说。
I I haven't been pressed be impressed by Arsenal, must have.
我今年一场都没看过。
I I I have not watched one game this year.
我觉得
I I think
昨天他们表现不错，对吧？
yesterday They were good yesterday, weren't they?
是的。
Yeah.
他们昨天表现不错，他们
They were they
昨天表现很好，我觉得那确实是一场精彩的比赛，但看看托特纳姆热刺，简直一团糟。
good yesterday where I thought, yeah, that's a great one, but you look at Tottenham Tottenham as a very dis absolute disarray.
今年我还没看过一场表现让我觉得这支球队能夺冠的比赛。
I haven't seen one performance this year where I thought, this team are gonna be champions.
我觉得是阿森纳。
I think Arsenal.
但抱歉，尼克，不只是阿森纳，我没看到其他任何球队有这种表现，我也没看过曼城的比赛，觉得他们今年有冠军相。
But, no, I'm sorry, Nick, but it's not just Arsenal, I haven't seen it from another team, I haven't looked at City and saw a performance where I thought, wow, they look like champions this year.
现在我觉得曼城可能会因此变得更好。
Now I think City might get better with that.
如果他们的前场三到五人状态爆发，曼城会完全不同。
If that front three, four, or five get going, City City will be very different.
我认为阿森纳去年的表现比今年更好。
I think Arsenal were a were a better team last year than they are this year.
为什么
Why is the
我觉得阿森纳去年的表现比今年要好。
way I've seen better performances last year from Arsenal than they did this year.
不过我还是认为他们会继续前进并赢得联赛冠军。
I still think they're gonna go on and win the league, by the way.
我认为昨天对他们来说是一个转折点。
I think that's that's the turning point yesterday for them.
我觉得他们今早开会时肯定会说：'兄弟们，我们能做到。'
I think their conference this morning will be like, we can do this, lads.
比如说，阿森纳需要的是，他们不需要别人为他们感到遗憾。
Like, the and what they need, Arsenal, they don't need people feeling sorry for them.
他们不需要别人比他们更强大。
They don't need people bigger than what.
他们需要的是我们当年踢球时的那种心态——我们对抗全世界。
They need to be that what we said we have when we was playing, that that mindset where it's us against the world.
是的。
Mhmm.
就像我们身处一座孤岛，没人能影响我们。
Like, we're on this island, and no one can affect us.
如果你能把当年曼联称霸时的某位球员直接移植到现在的阿森纳队里，会选谁？
If you could pluck a team from United when you were winning everything and put it in the Arsenal team now A player.
一位球员。
A player.
一位球员。
A player.
抱歉。
Sorry.
你会选谁放进去？
Who who would you put in there?
我会把鲁德放进那支队伍。
I I'd put Rude into that team.
听好了。
Look.
我觉得其他位置，就连我自己也说，其他地方都挺强的。
I think everywhere else, the quiet even I said they're quite strong everywhere else.
我觉得防守方面表现并不出色。
I think I don't think defensively been great.
我以为你们是在为那个进球做准备，他们能看到，我不确定萨利巴当时在做什么。
I thought you're saving for that goal that they can see that's I'm not sure what Saliba was doing.
等一下。
Hang on a minute.
他们的防守其实还不错。
They have been alright defensively.
你不能说他们没做好。
You can't say they've not.
是的
Yeah.
我说我觉得他们表现得并不好。
I said I don't think they've been great.
好吧。
Alright.
是的
Yeah.
好吧。
Alright.
该死的混蛋。
Fucking asshole.
我在想他是不是
I got wonder if he's
个混蛋。
an asshole.
不。
No.
我的意思是，他们的防守记录是联盟中最好的之一。
I mean, they've got one of the best defensive records in
联赛。
the league.
我真的希望那个混蛋赢得联赛，但我也很享受看他有点摇摇晃晃的样子。
Really want asshole to win the league, but I also enjoy him, like, wobbling a little bit.
哦，是的。
Oh, aye.
作为一个中立者。
Me as a neutral.
我在听。
I am I am listen.
我想只是听听。
Want I want Just to listen
马丁·基尔周一早晨的颤抖。
to Martin Keel's tremble on a Monday morning.
我昨天希望踢平，因为作为球迷，我热爱这座城市和阿森纳。
I wanted a draw yesterday because I want I as a fan, I love this city arsenal thing, and
我想把我的钱赚回来。
I want get my money it.
我们就只想把钱赚回来。
We just get my money.
现在这很棒吗？
Is it great that now?
平局？
Draw?
因为我并不希望他输，现在比分太接近了。
Because I I didn't want him to lose, and it'd be too tight now.
我仍然希望看到那种三分的攻势。
I still want that, like, three point push.
我会安排平局。
I'll align the draw.
我只是喜欢
I just like
作为一名足球明星。
as a football star.
我们是不是
Should we
让马丁上场？
get Martin on?
我们邀请他来吗？
Should we invite him on?
他是个很棒的小伙子。
He's a great lad.
我跟你说吧。
I'll tell you what.
马丁在你刚才说他们防守如何如何的时候本来应该在这儿的。
Martin would have been here when you said when you were having to say their defenses and all that.
咱们让马丁上来吧。
Let's get Martin up.
我们本来会拥有布里连特。
We'd have had Brilliant.
该死的火警警报
Fucking fire alarms
他，因为那时情况本应很明朗。
him because the steam would have been clear.
为什么
Why is
说真的，这家伙太搞笑了。
The man is hilarious, honestly.
是的。
Yeah.
他真是个很棒的人。
Such a great guy.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
他是个很可爱的人
I he's a lovely
对。
right.
但我可以
But I can
和以前的谈话相比，我能看出来。
see see in a contrast with the old talks.
来了。
Coming.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我正在看狼队的比赛，突然想到了马丁·基翁。
I was watching the wolves game, I was just thinking of Martin Keown.
所以你认识马丁吗，如果
So do you know Martin, if
如果你在看这个，请回应一下。
you're watching this, please, can you respond to this?
他认为阿森纳的防守并没有那么出色。
He doesn't think the Arsenal defense is all that.
你知道吗？
Do you know something?
不知道。
No.
罗里，你知道关于那位球员转会的事吗？
Do know something, Rory, about the player going?
对我来说，我会给罗伊·基恩一个脖子。
For me, I would put a Roy Keane neck.
我觉得他们需要一个领袖。
I think they need a leader.
对。
Right.
场上的领袖会说：我们能做到。
Leaders in that pitch are going we can do this.
我们可以做到，但他提到的是马扬·基恩。
We can get but and he's talking about Mayank Keone.
如果马扬·基恩在那支队伍里，我会更有信心他们能赢得联赛，因为他是个领袖。
If Mayank Keone was in that in that team, I would be a lot more confident of them going and winning the league because he's a leader.
我觉得……我不确定。
And I I think I don't know.
也许在现代足球中，已经没有这样的领袖了。
Maybe nowadays, modern football, you don't have leaders like that.
我敢肯定德克兰·赖斯是个重要的领袖。
I'm pretty sure Declan Rice is a big leader.
我很确定萨利巴是一位领袖。
I'm pretty sure Saliba's a a leader.
但只需要有人抓住他的衣领说，伙计们，我们能行的。
But it just needs someone to grab him by the short and curlers and go, lads, we can do this.
我们是一支很棒的球队。
We're all good team.
我们是很优秀的球员，而且我们昨天已经证明了这一点。
We're good players, and and we proved that yesterday.
我明白这个意思。
And and I get it.
托特纳姆的表现并不出色。
Tottenham wasn't unbelievable.
他们表现得很糟糕。
They were bad.
但他们以4比1获胜了。
But they've won four one.
我觉得德克兰·赖斯是，我知道尼克在说什么。
I think Declan Rice is a I know what Nicky's saying there.
当罗伊在组织球队、很好地带领球队时，那种氛围有一种特别的沉稳。
When when Roy was getting the team together and leading the team really well, there was a there's a certain calmness about it.
是的。
Yeah.
当我看德克兰·赖斯时，他看起来几乎太情绪化了。
When I look at Declan Rice, he looks he almost looks too emotional.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do know what I mean?
他很有活力。
He's lively.
他上场了。
He's come on.
加油。
Come on.
加油。
Come on.
然后他就犯了错误。
Then then he makes his mistake.
你觉得呢？
Do know what think?
因为
Because there
当你争夺联赛冠军、面对艰难比赛时，你必须保持冷静。
has to be a when when you're going for a league title, when you've got tough games, there has to be a calmness about you.
你觉得他是队长吗？
Do you think he's a captain?
我觉得他是。
I think he is.
我觉得他是队长。
Think think he's a captain.
有可能。
Think, potentially.
总是。
Always
想锁定
wanna lock
现在就把他锁住，我想，操。
him now and I think, fuck.
它多大了？
How old is it?
他太多了。
He's so much.
它多大？
How old it?
他二十出头。
He's early twenties,
不是吗？
isn't it?
他
He's
才二十出头。
only Mid twenties.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得他是个顶尖人物，我觉得他是个领导者。
Think he is a top I think he's a leader.
我知道他的表现如何，但我认为他非常渴望赢得胜利。
I know what scores he's like, but I think that he wants to win it so much.
所以，他昨天犯了个错误。
So and he's made a mistake yesterday.
真是让人头疼。
It's like, ugh.
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