第546集 | 基督徒与科技

嗯。

Mhmm.

尽管我的手本可以用来行善。

Even though my hands could be used for good.

对吧？

Right?

我必须舍弃它。

I have to get rid of it.

比喻地说。

Metaphorically.

比喻地说。

Metaphorically.

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yes.

请不要这样。

Please don't.

好吧。

Alright.

好的。

Okay.

但关键在于，这就像是一个极其剧烈的转变，我需要明白上帝不希望我在利用这项技术行善的同时，又沉溺于这种罪恶之中。

But the point being, like, it's that drastic in the sense of, like, I need to understand that God doesn't want me to use this technology for good and then also be indulging in this sin.

就像是，如果这种罪恶出现在我的生活中，我就需要摒弃技术。

It's like, if this sin is happening in my life, I need to get rid of technology.

对吧？

Right?

会这么说吗？

Would say that?

我的意思是，就像

I mean, like

我在想，这很微妙。

I'm thinking about It's nuanced.

我在想，因为你不能简单地一概而论，说这就是唯一的答案。

Thinking about because you can't just make like a blanket statement and say, this is your only answer.

我在想，好吧，人们趋之若鹜地追求技术的一个原因是什么？

And I'm thinking, okay, like what's what's one reason people people flock to technology for?

他们很孤独。

They're lonely.

孤独怎么样？

How about loneliness?

社交媒体不仅揭示了我们的孤独，更放大了人心能有多孤独。

Social media has actually not only shown us how lonely we are, but it has, oh man, like magnified how how lonely the human heart can be.

人们上社交媒体，比如Facebook虽然有点过时，但它依然存在。

People go on social media, be it okay, Facebook's a little out of date, but it's still there.

是的，它依然存在。

Okay, it's still there.

我上大学时它很流行。

It was popular when I was in college.

依然存在。

Still there.

抖音、Instagram，应有尽有。

TikTok, Instagram, you name it.

其他国家还有WhatsApp。

There's what WhatsApp for other countries.

这真的取决于你在世界上的哪个位置，以及对你来说最著名的是什么。

It's it just really depends on where you are in the world, what, what the most famous one is for you.

但这些人蜂拥而至是因为他们渴望建立联系。

But these people flock to this stuff because they want to feel connected.

不如这样，放下你手中的任何媒体，任何社交媒体，去和一个人面对面交谈。

But how about, how about you put down the whatever media it is, whatever social media it is, and you go and talk to a person.

这才是真正的联系所在。

That's that's where real connection is.

这也是你关于上帝的观点。

And that's what you're saying about about God too.

当科技妨碍了你与祂的关系时，你需要放下手机，离开电脑，去散步，走进大自然，走进森林，比如去远足，独自与上帝相处。

Like when technology gets in the way of your relationship with Him, you got to put the phone down, you got to step away from the computer, you got to take a walk, you got to get get into nature, into a forest, go on like a hike and just get alone with God.

这样做没有任何问题。

There's nothing wrong with that.

你这样做并不是在浪费时间。

You're not wasting time by doing that.

我认为我们的社会过度强调生产力，以至于我们深信不疑地认为自己必须时刻保持高效。

I think our society tells us so much about how productive we can be that we buy into it as if we have to be productive all the time.

举个例子，电子邮件存在多久了？

For instance, how long has email been around?

大概从九十年代末开始，当计算机和互联网真正成为主流时，电子邮件实现了电脑间的信息传递。

Probably since like the late nineties when computers and the internet had the internet really had become mainstream emails being able to send messages from one computer to another.

但现在，电子邮件已经实现了24/7全天候可用。

But now, now email is available 20 fourseven.

我们可以在不工作的时候用手机查看。

We can look at it on our phones when we're not at work.

我们可能会查看工作邮件，然后心想，哦，我正在提高效率。

We might look at our work email and we might think, oh, I'm being productive.

我需要完成这件事。

I need to do this.

我需要处理突然冒出来的状况。

I need to handle some situation that just suddenly popped up.

那、那要是、那要是你不在工作的时候呢，你下班了。

What, what about, what about when you're away from work, you're away from work.

当你独自一人与神交流、祈祷、冥想，或者只是安静反思的时候呢？

What about when you you're alone and by yourself, you're communing with God or praying or meditating or, or even just having some quiet reflective time?

你知道吗，商界最成功的人士，都是那些每天专门留出时间不受干扰地进行反思和思考的人？

Did you know that the most successful people in the business world are those who set aside time every day to like reflect and think with no distractions around them?

他们真的必须把这件事排进日程表，确保它能落实。

They like literally have to put it in their schedule to make sure that it happens.

所以老兄，我刚才说到哪儿了？我想表达什么来着？

So man, where was what was my point with all this?

其实很简单。

It's really simple.

就是...你的动力来源是什么？

Like where, where, where's your motivation coming from?

你想用科技实现什么目标？

What are you trying to do with technology?

你是否可以考虑从他人或与上帝的关系中寻找意义，而非依赖科技本身？

How about you find that meaning in another person or in your relationship with God as opposed to with the technology itself?

是的。

Yeah.

谈到这个话题时，我想起一句很好的经文，《诗篇》139:24，上面说：‘看看我里面有什么恶行没有。’

And a good verse that comes to mind when I'm, when we're talking about this, think of is, is Psalm one thirty nine twenty four, and it says, see if there's any grievous way in me.

对吧？

Right?

就像‘神啊，求你鉴察我，引导我走永生的道路。’

Like, search me, oh God, and and lead me in the way everlasting.

很好。

Nice.

我认为这正是我们在思考这些微妙问题时所在的位置，比如‘我该使用科技吗？’

And I think that this is like where we when we are going, thinking about these things that are very nuanced and like, should I, you know, do I use technology?

还是不该用？

Do I not?

什么时候该用？

When do I use it?

什么时候不该用？

When do I don't?

要知道，我们不想背负不该有的重担。

You know, it's we don't want to put on a burden that shouldn't be there.

实际上，这就像是回归上帝的话语。

And really, it's like coming back to the Word of God.

如果上帝的话语通过电话传达，那也没问题。

And if the Word of God is on the phone, it's fine.

但就像，主啊请鉴察我，让我更亲近你。

But like, search me God, like draw me near to you.

我能否在这圣言中，通过这科技寻见你？

Can I find you in this Word and through this technology, can I find you?

让我更亲近你。

Draw me near to you.

而且

And

你提到的关于安息日休息或小型安息日安排真的很美好，就像你说的，是日程中固有的部分。

that's beautiful what you mentioned about essentially like a Sabbath rest or a mini Sabbath rest, I guess, like you're saying, like built into the schedule.

我知道有好几位名人这样做，比如查理·柯克就严格遵守周六安息日。

And I know like there's been several, like Charlie Kirk, for instance, he actually like honored the Sabbath on Saturdays.

他说自己一直是这个理念的倡导者。

And he says like he was an advocate for that.

对吧。

Right.

就像，我会专门留出那个时间。

Like, I take that time.

你看，我平时太忙了。

Like, I'm so busy.

我需要那一天。

I need that day.

不使用科技产品。

No technology.

不用手机。

No phones.

而且，你知道，这就是那些遵循传统的犹太教徒们的美好之处。

And and and, you know, this is what's beautiful about, like, Orthodox Jews that do this.

我是说，他们把这一点做到了极致。

I mean, they they take it to very extreme levels.

不开车。

No cars.

他们确实如此。

They yeah.

不

No

他们去哪里都步行。

They walk everywhere.

连电灯开关都不能碰。

Turn on a light switch.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

因为他们觉得开电灯就是在使用科技。

Because if they turn on a light switch, that's using technology.

哇。

Wow.

而且而且而且，你知道，他们走得很远。

And and and there's, you know, there's they go it goes far with them.

但当然，关键在于，这是与家人共度的时光，是彼此联结、重新凝聚、祈祷与静默的时刻。

But of course, the whole point is like, it's time spent with family, time spent with connecting with one another, regrouping, prayer, quietness.

我认为这些事物绝对需要更多地融入我们的生活，尤其是考虑到科技发展以及各种即将消耗和分散我们注意力的新事物层出不穷。

And these things are are absolutely, I think, need to be more in our lives, especially given technology and the advent of all these different things coming out that are going to consume us and distract us.

我们知道，幕后的魔鬼会利用科技。

And we know that the devil behind the scenes, you know, is going to use technology.

我们深知这一点。

And we know that that's the case.

所以我们必须，就像你之前说的，守护我们的心灵。

And so we have to, like you said earlier, guard our heart.

无论我们与世上的任何事物互动时，都必须守护心灵。

We have to guard our heart whenever we're engaging with anything in the world.

确实。

Sure.

即便不是科技，我们也必须守护心灵。

If it's not even technology, we have to guard our heart.

是的。

Yes.

你提到的这些经文，你知道，我们要通过更新心意来改变自己。

And these verses you're mentioning, you know, we are to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

我们不应被世界改变，也不应随波逐流于世界循环，被世界体系的潮流裹挟。

We are not to be changed by the world or kind of flow through the world cycles and be caught up in the current of the world system.

因为世界体系正朝着一个方向发展，而技术很可能会被用于那个世界体系。

Because the world system is going one way and technology is most likely going to be used in that world system.

我们读过《启示录》，是的。

And we read Revelation Yeah.

你可以从经文中推断出许多技术将被使用，比如两位见证人。

And you can see a lot of you can infer a lot of technology in the text that will be used like the two witnesses.

怎么可能所有人都同时看到那两位见证人？

How does everyone see the two witnesses at the same time?

大概是通过手机上的技术，对吧？

Probably technology on their phones, right?

看着吧。

Looking.

所以我认为，我们可以推断技术将在末世被使用。

So I mean, we can infer that technology is going to be used in the later times.

那么，我们是否认为天堂里会有iPhone这样的技术？

And like, do we think technology, do we think we're going to be an iPhone in heaven?

我可以很肯定地说，天堂里不会有我们现在认知的那种电子电气技术——比如电脑这类东西。我很愿意坚定地表示...

I'd like to say with confidence, there's not going to be technology in heaven in the sense of electric electrical technology, the way we know it today, like, you know, with computers and all these things like, I would love to put my foot down and say I'd be willing to

等等，你是说我们将来不能戴着那种Meta AI眼镜，在街上行走时实时翻译语音、随时提供所需答案吗？好像我们现在走路开车时被现有设备分散的注意力还不够似的。

Wait, you mean we're not going to have these Meta AI glasses on that translate speech for us live and and give us the answers we need as we're walking down the street as if we're not distracted enough walking and driving by what we already have.

你是说那种情况不会发生？

You mean that's not going to happen?

我是说，你描述得就像撒旦是这个世界的统治者一样。

I mean, you hit it like Satan is the god of this world.

《哥林多后书》第四章第四节。

Second Corinthians four:four.

在《以弗所书》第五章中，我们作为信徒被教导要行事谨慎。

And we are called as believers in Ephesians chapter five to walk circumspectly.

这种行事谨慎或小心的概念，不知为何让我脑海中浮现出一个滑稽的画面——就像在火山口边缘行走。

This this idea of walking circumspectly or carefully, I get for some reason, I just have this funny picture in my mind of of, you know, walking walking around the outside of like a volcano or something.

你必须非常小心，因为一旦失足坠落，就彻底完了。

And you have to be really careful because if you if you fall in, if you fall in, that's it.

但科技对我们产生的影响也是如此。

But, but this is like technology, what it does to us.

你知道，当你开始滑动屏幕，在Instagram上从一个短视频刷到下一个，突然之间两小时就在‘末日刷屏’中消逝，整个晚上就这么浪费了。

You know, you, you start scrolling, you start scrolling on Instagram, you go from one reel to the next and all of a sudden, two hours of doom scrolling takes place and you just lost your entire evening.

你坐在丈夫或妻子旁边。

You're sitting next to your husband or wife.

你坐在朋友身边，但彼此毫无交流。

You're sitting next to your friends, but none of you are interacting.

相反，你们都只是机械地刷着：下一个，下一个，再下一个。

Instead, you're all just like, next, next, next.

眼目看不够。

The eye, the seeing eye is not satisfied.

耳朵听不足。

The hearing ear is not satisfied.

这简直没完没了。

It's just nonstop.

但这就是世俗之神所热衷的。

But this is what the God of this world loves to do.

约翰福音第10章第10节。

John chapter 10 verse 10.

祂来是为了寻找、杀戮和毁灭。

He, He comes in to seek, to kill and to destroy.

祂想要，祂想要断绝你与他人的关系。

He wants to, He wants to end your relationships with other people.

祂想要切断你与神的联系。

He wants to end your connection with God.

祂不愿你活在圣灵中谨慎行事。

He doesn't want you to walk in the spirit and walk circumspectly.

祂要让你如此沉迷于自我和聚敛财富，只要能找到引诱你堕落的诱饵，祂就会不断设法将其呈现在我们任何人面前。

He wants you to be so preoccupied with yourself and whatever you can heap to yourself that if, if He can find something to put in front of you, that'll cause you to go down that rabbit hole, he's going to keep finding ways to put it in front of any one of us.

是啊，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

而且没有什么比面对面交流更能建立联系了。

And like there's no connection like a face to face connection.

仅凭有人站在你身边这个事实本身，就足以产生无法替代的联结。

It's just impossible to just by the by the very very presence of someone being next to you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这与通过FaceTime通话与人保持联系是不同的。

It's different than being even on a FaceTime call with someone.

是的。

Yeah.

他们的存在具有精神层面的影响。

Their presence has a spiritual impact.

我的意思是，我们是精神性的存在。

I mean, is we're we're spiritual beings.

没错。

Yes.

当我们聚在一起，真正面对面时，会产生一种精神上的连接，我认为这种连接在电话中是不存在的。

And when we come together and we we're we're we're physically together, there's a spiritual connection that happens that I would say is not there over the phone.

我的意思是，也许在某种程度上它可以达到某种程度。

I mean, maybe in some capacity it can be to an extent.

当然。

Sure.

但是，再说一次，这些是我们作为基督徒使用的工具，用来接触迷失的人，与人们建立联系，与传教士联系，所有这些我们利用技术所做的美好事情。

But, again, like these are these are tools that we use as Christians to reach the lost, to, you know, connect with people, to connect with missionaries, all these different things that are beautiful that we use technology for.

但话说回来，我们必须要有那种传统，对吧？

But then again, we have to have that convention, right?

我们必须参加欧洲大会，必须进行访问，必须出行，必须乘飞机，真正利用技术去这些地方——去肯尼亚、匈牙利、芬兰、泰国等等，因为我想亲眼见到我在基督里的兄弟姐妹们。

We have to have the Eurocont, we have to have the visitations, we have to have the going, we have to get on a plane and actually use technology to go to these places, to go to Kenya, to go to Hungary, to go to Finland, to go to Thailand, all these things, because I want to see my, you know, I want to see my brothers and sisters in Christ face to face.

而当我与他们面对面时，我们其实并没有真正使用技术来交流。

And when I'm with them face to face, I mean, we're not really using technology to communicate.

我想如果你愿意的话

I guess if you want to

不。

No.

说什么都行

Say anything

不过，是的，我们在精神层面上产生了共鸣。

But like, yeah, we're connecting spiritually.

归根结底，我们的使命就是在精神层面彼此连接，使万民成为门徒——这种连接虽然可以通过电话或科技实现，但最佳方式仍是面对面交流。当我与人面对面时，

And that's ultimately what is our purpose is to connect with each other spiritually to be making disciples of all nations, which happens best in person, can be done over the phone, can be done with technology, but it happens best face to face in person when I connect with someone.

我可以告诉你，我个人生命中最具属灵影响力的时刻，都是与他人的面对面连接。

And I can tell you the most spiritually impact times I've had in my own personal life have been, you know, connections face to face with people.

这些时刻从不是通过电话或科技达成的。

It hasn't been over the phone or technology.

当然，我也曾被网络上的信息触动过。

I mean, I've been touched by messages online.

你知道，我也曾因网络内容而深感愧疚...上帝确实在我的生活中运用了科技手段，

Been, you know, I've been convicted by things online and and and God has used technology in my life Yeah.

引领我更亲近祂，这是毋庸置疑的。

To draw me closer to him, of course.

是啊。

Yeah.

但最重要的，这些通常只是鼓励和牧养，让我们重新回到与上帝独处的宁静空间。

But the most, you know, those things are typically just encouragements and shepherding to be coming back into the quiet space with God.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

而且用实体圣经的话，就不会有通知来打扰我。

And actually using a physical Bible so there's no notification that can ding me.

带我去个地方，对。

And take me somewhere Yeah.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

你需要这个。

You need that.

这就是为什么我喜欢实体圣经。

That's why I love the physical Bible.

没错。

Yes.

就像我们常说的，虽然手机上有圣经应用，但没有什么比得上实体圣经能让我完全专注。

It's like, you know, like we say, yeah, your Bible's on your phone, but like, there's nothing like the physical Bible where there's nothing to distract me.

这是神的道在我里面，别无他物。

It's it's it's the Word of God in me and nothing else.

我觉得这真的很美好。

And I just think that that's beautiful.

今天的听众朋友们，如果你想测试自己对科技的依赖程度或习惯程度，我今天的挑战是：试试这样做。

If you want to, as a listener today, if you want to give yourself a test as to how much you may or may not be dependent on technology or how used how used to it you are, My challenge for you today is to do this.

所以拿起你的手机，调成静音或关机，随你觉得哪种更舒服，然后把它从口袋里拿出来，放在看不见也想不到的地方。

So take your phone, put it on silent or turn it off, whichever you're more comfortable with and remove it from your pocket and put it somewhere where it's out of sight and out of mind.

然后告诉我，告诉我们中的任何一个人，随便什么时候写下来，让我们知道在这一天里，你有没有，有没有伸手去摸口袋里的手机？

And tell me, tell one of us just write in at some point and let us know at some point through the day, did you, did you reach for your phone in your pocket?

你有没有感觉到腿上一阵颤动，然后想着，哦，我收到通知了。

Did you feel a tremble on your leg think, and think, Oh, I got a notification.

我得看看。

I got to check.

你就像在寻找那种多巴胺的快感。

And you're like looking for that dopamine hit.

如果你不认为自己依赖它，我，我，这就是我今天给你的挑战。

Like if you don't think you're dependent on it, I, I, that's my challenge for you today.

去做吧。

Do that.

艾弗里，你说的另一件事太棒了。

One other thing you said, Avery, is so good.

我超爱这个。

I love this.

这就像你能找到的最冷门的东西。

This is like the most obscure thing you'll find.

不，一点也不冷门。

Not, it's not obscure at all.

这非常有道理。

It makes so much sense.

而你只是一直面对面地说，面对面，脸对脸。

And you just kept saying it face to face, face to face, face face.

第二约翰和第三约翰都以这个观点结束。

The second John and third John both end with this idea.

所以约翰在写信，信中说长老致蒙拣选的夫人和她的孩子们。

So John is writing to, it says the elder unto the elect lady and her children.

这就是他写信的对象。

That's who he's writing to.

我们并不确切知道那个听众是谁，但约翰在第十二章仅13节后说道：'我还有许多事要写给你们，却不愿意用笔墨写给你们；但盼望到你们那里，与你们当面交谈，使我们的喜乐可以满足。'

We don't know exactly who that audience is, but this is what John says after only 13 verses in the twelfth verse, he says, having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink, but I trust to come unto you and speak face to face that our joy may be full.

想想保罗在监狱里，你知道，他因为被囚禁无法用其他方式与腓立比人沟通，所以写了腓立比书。

You think about like Paul in prison in, you know, he's writing the epistle to Philippi because he's in prison and he has no other way to communicate with them.

但如果你有条件与人面对面交流，那才是喜乐满足之处。

But if you have the means to communicate with someone face to face, that's where your joy is full.

那才是最具生命力的互动发生的地方。

That's where the most life giving interactions take place.

而且，而且，我们天生如此。

And it's, and it's, we're built that way.

我们都是按上帝的形象被造，注定要彼此映照上帝的形象。

We are all built in the image of God and we are meant to like reflect God to each other.

所以当我们有机会时，我特别喜欢你刚才说的。

So when we have the opportunity, I just love what you said.

当我们有机会时，就应该把握住。

When we have the opportunity, we should take it.

你要对自己的科技使用负责。

You want to be accountable for your technology use.

不要只是发短信说‘嘿，监督我’。

Don't don't text someone say, Hey, hold me accountable.

不如主动去找他们见面，说‘嘿，听我说，我遇到些问题’。

How about go, go see them somewhere and say, Hey, listen, I'm having some issues.

请监督我完成这件事。

Hold me accountable to this thing.

然后约定见面时间，安排共处时刻，并设定一起祷告的时间。

And then, and then set times to meet with each other and set times to be together and set times to pray together.

这道理与你跟神的关系如出一辙。

It's the same again, it's the same as with your relationship with God.

如果你在日程中预留与神相处的时间，这几乎像是十一奉献的概念。

If you set time in your schedule to be with God, it's almost like, it's almost like the concept of a tithe.

就像你把收成中最美好的部分或初熟的果实献给神。

Like you are setting aside the the best of your increase or the first fruits of your increase to give to God.

那么，把你时间的初熟之果献上如何？

Well, how about the first fruits of your time?

把你注意力的初熟之果献上如何？

How about the first fruits of your attention?

何不先向神献上你的心，再让一天据此展开？

How about you give God your heart first and then you let the day play out according to that.

要我说，这些可称为美好的灵性操练。

I mean, these are beautiful spiritual disciplines is what you can call me.

必须让这些灵修方式适应我们科技发达的现代。

Have to add these spiritual disciplines have to adapt to our modern era with technology.

我是说，就像你说的，比如一小时、两小时，晚上6点或7点后，家里不再有手机，不再有科技产品。

I mean, like you're saying, like, go an hour, go two hours, make it after 6PM or after 7PM, there's no more phones, no more technology in the house.

你知道，在餐桌上只有阅读或交谈。

It's only either reading or conversation, you know, at the dinner table.

我们会在餐桌上使用科技产品，对吧。

We're gonna use technology at the dinner Right.

这些都是我们灵修中需要考虑、默想、祷告并可能调整的事情，或者

These are things that our spiritual disciplines we have to, you know, consider, we have to meditate on, pray about, and maybe adapt, you know, or

采纳。

adopt.

调整以采纳。

Adapt to adopt.

但我觉得这很美，因为这确实就像我们在生活中其他方面也有灵修时刻，比如祷告时间、读经学习时间。

But I mean, it's beautiful because I mean, that truly is, you know, like we have our spiritual disciplines that are in other areas of our life, like times of time for prayer, time for Bible reading and studying.

这些只是需要在现代加入的新内容。

These just have to be added into it in our modern era.

但就像你说的，保罗当年也使用科技——笔墨的形式，他甚至特意说'笔墨'，对吧？

But like you were saying, Paul used technology in the form of pen and ink and even says it like pen and ink, right?

是的。

Yes.

墨水和纸张。

Ink and paper.

但我觉得，我更愿意面对面交流。

And it's like, but I'd rather be face to face with this.

这正是我们讨论的重点——是的，我可以用手机发短信。

And this is exactly what we're talking about here where it's like, yeah, I can use my phone to text.

我可以用科技手段进行FaceTime或Zoom视频通话之类的。

I can use technology to FaceTime or Zoom or whatever.

我们确实会使用这些方式，但有机会的话，我更想和你面对面相见。

And we do, but when I can, I'd rather see you face to face.

是的。

Yeah.

这很美好。

It's beautiful.

你知道，这是同样的情感纽带。

It's the same spirit, you know.

我记得小时候，首先想做的就是和朋友们出去玩。

I remember as a, as a child, like, you know, first you want to go hang out with your friends.

他们都住在附近。

They live in the neighborhood.

你有几个选择。

You have a couple options.

好吧。

All right.

我要...我要打电话给你，得先背下他们的号码，或者设置快速拨号——这取决于你座机或手机的功能选项。

I'm going to, I'm going to call you had to memorize their number or you had it on speed dial depending on on your options on your phone, on your landline.

好的。

Okay.

用你的座机。

On your landline.

你打电话给你朋友。

You call your friend up.

没人接听。

No one answers.

你还有什么其他选择？

What's your other option there?

我要去敲他家的门。

I'm going to go knock on his door.

我要去看看他在不在家。

I'm going to go see if he's home.

因为你知道吗？

Cause you know what?

在你未达到一定年龄时，是不被允许接电话的。

When you were under a certain age, weren't allowed to answer the phone.

至少在我们家，电话响时，我直到12岁左右才被允许接电话。

When it rang at our house, at least like I was not allowed to answer the phone until I was like 12 years old.

然后我被严格教导接电话的方式：'您好，我是马修。'

Then I had a very strict way that I was taught to, hello, this is Matthew speaking.

您需要什么帮助吗？

You know, how can I help you?

比如，比如，哦，我是在为某个机构工作吗？

Like, like, Oh, who am I working for some agency?

不，只是接听家里的电话。

No, it's just answering my home phone.

但那个额外的步骤，那个互动的步骤，比如，哦，我要去敲门了。

But that extra step, that interaction step, like, Oh, I'm going go knock on the door.

我要去看看他们是否在家。

I'm going to go see if they're home.

我们已经失去了那种习惯。

We've lost that.

这在当今社会已经消失了。

That's gone in today's society.

如今当有人来敲我们社区的门时，我们会躲起来，因为他们要么是推销东西的，要么是，要么是，他们不是我们的朋友。

When people come and knock on our doors in neighborhoods today, we hide because they're either selling something or they're, or they're, they're not our friends.

他们就是别有用心。

They're just like up to up to something else.

或者他们是基督徒在敲门

Or they're Christians knocking on

他们是基督徒在敲门试图传播福音。

they're Christians knocking on the door trying to share the gospel.

我们确实会那样做。

We do that.

我们也会。

We do too.

其他一些团体也这么做，但效果并不理想。

Some other groups do that too, and it doesn't go so well.

但归根结底，如果我们正在使用科技——确实如此——却用科技来消除人际互动，那我们就必须重新思考这个问题。

But all that to say is like we, if we're using technology and we are, we're using technology to nix the personal interaction, then we have, we have to rethink that.

我们必须放下它。

We have to put it down.

我们必须远离它，去和某人面对面交谈。

We have to step away from it and we have to go talk to someone.

当你和某人有矛盾时，知道现在人们最爱做什么吗？

You have a problem with someone, you know, you know what everyone loves to do these days?

抱歉。

Sorry.

他们喜欢在互联网上公开抱怨。

They love to air it out on the internet.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们喜欢在Reddit上匿名发帖，或者在Facebook等平台上含沙射影地指责别人。

They love to do it anonymously on Reddit or they love to do it on Facebook or whatever other platform where you can say it without saying the person's name.

然后这就演变成充满戏剧性的谣言和闲言碎语的污水池。

And then it just becomes this whole drama filled little cesspool of rumors and gossip and whatever else.

不如这样：当你和某人有矛盾时，直接找对方当面沟通解决。这样双方最终都能获得圆满，因为问题已经彻底解决。

How about how about you have a problem with someone you go and you talk to them and you settle it and both of your joy is full at the end of it because you've settled it and it's done with and okay, you made some remarks that I didn't appreciate.

如果你从不告诉我，或者只在网上阴阳怪气地评论，我怎么可能知道你的不满呢？

How am I supposed to know that if you never tell me or if you make these snide comments on the internet about it?

老兄，就像这样，让我们重新找回生活中彼此真实相处的部分，并把它作为优先事项。

Man, it's just like, let's bring back the personal presence aspect of our lives with each other and make it so that that's a priority.

我是说，这很美。

I mean, it's beautiful.

想想你说的那些东西，评论区、留言板之类的，它们把人性最恶劣的一面都激发出来了。

Think like the the things you're talking about, the comment sections and the and the message boards and all these things, like they bring out the absolute worst in people.

人们在网络上的表现和现实生活判若两人。

I mean, people are different people on the Internet than they are in real life.

我敢保证，如果他们真的照你说的面对面交流，十有八九不会说出那些在网上说的话。嗯。

And they guarantee you if they did exactly what you're describing and go face to face to someone, chances are almost certainly they would not be saying the things that they're saying online Mhmm.

如果他们面对面

That they if they were face to face to

那个人。

that person.

键盘勇气。

Keyboard courage.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

尤其是匿名的时候。

And especially if you're anonymous.

我是说，你知道的，人们能逃脱责任就是因为他们匿名，他们可能平时是最善良体贴的人。嗯。

I mean, the things you can get you know, the things people get away with because they're just anonymous, and they're completely they might be the most kind considerate person Mhmm.

在现实生活中，但到了网上他们完全就像杰基尔与海德，截然不同的个性，因为他们可以随心所欲而不必承担任何后果。

In real life, but then online they're totally it's like a Jekyll and Hyde, a totally different personality because they are able to be this anything they want and not have any repercussions for it.

可悲的现实是，上帝也在互联网上，他注视着网络上发生的一切，并参与其中——他不是不知道这些如何影响人们的灵魂，以及人们最终将为此负责。

The sad reality is God is on the internet and God is watching what's going on on the internet and he's involved in what's going on in the internet in the sense of like he's not unaware about how that's affecting people's souls and how that's affecting people where people are going be accountable to.

要知道，他们可能不认为自己在网上犯罪，但事实确实如此。

You know, they might not think they're sinning online, but they are.

每一句闲话都要供出来。

Every idle word spoken.

是啊。

Yeah.

或者只是那些你在网上能侥幸逃脱的事，你知道，就是你在网上参与的那些。

Or just things that you can get away with for, you know, what you're engaging in online.

他们可能会想，哦，这不是罪，因为它没有发生在现实生活中。

They might they might think, oh, it's not sin because it's not happening in real life.

就像，这些都是上帝在福音书中阐述的美好真理——比如你怀着淫念看一个女人，就已经在心里犯了奸淫。

And it's like, these are beautiful things that God laid out in the in the Gospels where he's like, you know, if you look with at a woman to lust for her, you've committed adultery.

你若恨一个人，就已经在心里杀了他。

If you've hated a man, you've murdered in your heart, you've murdered him.

这些真理至今依然适用，尽管是两千零二十五年前的话语，因为网络时代的情形正是如此。

And these are things that actually are applying today, two thousand and twenty five years ago, because this is that's the case online.

我可以在网上憎恨我的兄弟，但这不算犯罪。

I can hate my brother online, but it's not sin.

我并没有真的杀死他。

I'm not killing him actually.

我没有恶意，你知道的。

I'm not hating, you know.

但你要知道，耶稣有话要对你说。

But you know, Jesus has words for you.

你知道，这是

You know, it's

就像，它很美。

like, it's beautiful.

这要追溯到内心所存的。

It goes back to what's in the heart.

而内心所存的终会显露出来。

And what's in the heart always comes out.

我不想打击你。

I hate to break it to you.

内心所存的终会显露出来。

What's in the heart always comes out.

所以如果你戴着那副假面具，在人前装成老好人，然后上网就对别人破口大骂，那就很明显了，好吧，我们知道你内心是怎样的。

So if you put on that facade and you're that nice guy in person, and then you get online and you're railing against people, it's like, well, okay, we know what your heart is.

如果你总是上网，总想纠正别人，好吧，我们知道你内心是怎样的。

If you're always online and you're always trying to correct other people, okay, we know what your heart is.

这无关紧要。

It doesn't matter.

上帝知道你的心，上帝想要渗透你的心，祂想要改变你。

God knows your heart and God wants to infiltrate your heart and He wants to change you.

祂想通过更新你的心意来改变你。

He wants to transform you by the renewing of your mind.

就是这样。

That is it.

如果你能将心交给祂，祂会让你对生命有全然不同的视角。

If you can give Him your heart, He will give you like a totally different perspective on life.

这无关紧要。

It doesn't matter.

技术不需要介入其中。

Technology doesn't need to be involved in that.

唯有圣灵和上帝在你生命中的显明临在需要参与其中，才能实现这一点。

Only the Holy Spirit and God's manifest presence in your life needs to be involved for that to happen.

阿们。

Amen.

阿们。

Amen.

我们将心献给上帝。

We give God our hearts.

是的。

Yeah.

我们这里收到几条评论。

So we got a couple of comments here.

我超爱艾瑞莎。

I love love Aretha.

她总是倾听我们，而且是YouTube直播间的忠实评论者。

She listens to us all the time and she is a faithful commenter on YouTube live.

她说，我在我的YouTube频道上听到你，像是在证明积极的观点。

She says, I'm hearing you on my YouTube channel, like proving the positive point.

她还说，我用手机祈祷。

She also says, I pray using my phone.

我发送祈祷和鼓励的短信给所爱的人。

I send prayers and I send encouraging texts to loved ones.

她在之前的评论中说过。

She said in a previous comment.

然后斯蒂芬也在评论里问，当你们的晚餐话题是科技时怎么办？

And then Stephen's also commenting in, what about when your dinner conversation is about technology?

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这是当天的热门话题。

I mean, it's the talk of the day.

这是即将发生的事情。

It's what's going to happen.

社交媒体有时并不比背后议论别人更好。

Social media is no better at times than talking behind people's backs.

以弗所书四章二十九节足够指导我们生活的每一天。

Ephesians four twenty nine is is adequate for every single day of our lives.

污秽的言语一句不可出口，只要随事说造就人的好话，叫听见的人得益处。

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouths, but that which is good to the use of edifying of the hearers.

老兄，这话说得正是时候。

Man, that's such word in season.

真是句应景的话。

Such a word in season.

艾弗里，关于基督徒与科技这个话题，你还有什么总结性的想法吗？

Avery, any closing thoughts on the topic of the Christian and technology?

我认为就是要行事明智、为人谦卑，并且像我最开始说的那样，不断问自己这个问题：这样做是否能让我更亲近神？

I think just walking wisely, walking humbly and just asking the question, like I said at the beginning, like asking the question, is this is this drawing me closer to God?

诚实地向自己提出这个问题。

Asking that honestly with yourself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这总体上让我更亲近上帝了吗？

Does this draw me closer to God overall?

就像，你知道的，自从我一年前采用这项技术以来，我是否感觉...不管是什么，随着它们不断出现。

Like, you know, am I feeling like ever since I adopted this technology, you know, a year ago, whatever it is, you know, as they come out.

是的。

Yeah.

考虑一个月后或一周后，你知道的，无论多久，这让我更亲近上帝了吗？

Consider after a month or after a week after, you know, however long, does this has this drawn me closer to God?

我是否感觉与上帝的关系更紧密了，因为这项技术让我感觉与上帝更亲近了？

Do I feel like my relationship with God is stronger, is more connected, I feel more connected to God because of this technology?

如果答案是否定的，那么考虑也许该摆脱它了，你明白吗？

And if the answer is no, then consider maybe getting rid of it, you know?

或者考虑减少使用频率，或者通过精神自律来约束自己，防止其被滥用。

Or consider not using it as often or just having discipline, spiritual discipline behind it to stop, to prevent it being used adversely.

我认为这是一个非常健康的挑战，也是审视自己与技术关系的好方法。

I think that's a really healthy challenge and a really great way to like kind of examine oneself with technology.

我想到几个当下非常流行的现代例子。

I'm thinking of a couple other like modern examples that are really popular right now.

比如ChatGPT，超级火爆。

So there's ChatGPT, super popular.

大家都在用它做各种事情，但它也被证实存在严重的负面使用案例。

Everyone's using it for all sorts of different things, but it's also being proven to be used in really negative ways.

有报道称，青少年和年轻人在让ChatGPT重写自杀遗书或给出自杀理由后选择了轻生。

There are reports of teens and younger adults committing suicide after like asking ChatGPT to recreate their suicide note or to, or to give them reasons why they should go a certain direction.

这真的非常可怕。

It's like really scary too.

确实令人毛骨悚然。

It's really scary.

好吧。

Okay.

我们先退一步说。

But let's back up for a second.

比如Grammarly就被认为是AI，对吧？

So like Grammarly was considered to be AI, right?

Grammarly。

Grammarly.

学校里我认识的人现在没有一个不用Grammarly的。

I don't know a single person in school who doesn't use Grammarly at this point.

它已经融入你使用的所有东西里了。

It's in everything that you use.

Grammarly曾被认为有点像作弊工具，因为它会修正你的语法，还会替换成你没用过的高级词汇。

Grammarly was thought as like somehow a cheating tool because it would correct your grammar and it would put better words in there that you weren't using.

当时人们争论：这算原创思维还是剽窃？

And it was like, well, is that original thought or is that a plagiarism?

不，这些说法都不对。

No, it's, it's none of the above.

它只是个帮你更好表达的工具。

It's, it's a tool to help you communicate better.

ChatGPT可以以同样的方式使用，但它还能用于许多其他用途。

ChatGPT can be used the same way, but it can also be used for so many other things.

你真的需要回到你刚才问的那个问题。

You really have to go back to that question you just asked.

它真的有用吗？

Is it is it being useful?

它是否帮助我更亲近上帝？

Is it helping me draw closer to God?

我是否实际上是在用它作为借口，让自己离上帝更远，更深地埋藏自己？

Am I am I actually using it as an excuse to to draw farther away from God, bury myself deeper?

我认为无论你使用什么、何时使用，这都是你必须问的问题。

I think it's the question you got to ask no matter what you're using and when you're using.

还要说明的是，我们不能说所有技术本质上都是邪恶的。

And also just to say, we can't say all technology is inherently evil.

那完全不是我们要表达的意思。

That's, that's not what we're trying to say at all.

当今技术有如此多的有益用途和积极应用。

There are so many good uses and positive uses for technology today.

它帮助了我们的出行。

It has helped us in our travel.

它改善了我们的日常生活。

It has helped us in our daily living.

它改变了我们的烹饪方式，影响着我们做各种事情的方式。

It has helped us in how we cook, how we do all sorts of things.

对吧？

Right?

但作为信徒，我们要问的问题是：这对你有帮助吗？

But the question we're asking as believers is, will this help you?

这会让你更亲近神吗？

Will this draw you closer to God?

如果不能，你愿意与之分离吗？

And if not, are you willing to separate from it?

阿们。

Amen.

阿们。

Amen.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，这样可以吗？

Oh, is that okay?

稍等。

Hold on.

我们又多了一些。

We got got a few more.

两分钟。

Two minutes.

不，我们又多了一些。

No, we got a few more.

好的。

Okay.

阿雷塔正在发言。

Aretta is chiming in.

作为耶稣基督的信徒，我们应当明智地运用技术，为神带来荣耀。

As believers in Jesus Christ, we are to use technology wisely, bring glory to God.

阿们。

Amen.

谢谢你，阿雷塔。

Thank you, Aretta.

我们很感激。

We appreciate it.

ChatGPT也经常被证明是错误的。

ChatGPT is often proven wrong too.

哦，他们管聊天时出现的这种情况叫什么来着？

Oh, what do they call it when chat?

幻觉。

Hallucinations.

他们称之为幻觉。

They call it hallucinations.

就像，你根本不知道ChatGPT的信息来源是哪里。

It's like, you don't know where ChatGPT is getting their information from.

你还记得AskJeeves吗？

Do you remember AskJeeves?

那个在你那时候很流行吗？还是雅虎搜索引擎？

Was that popular for you or Yahoo, the search engine?

不太记得。

Not quite.

好吧。

Okay.

所有这些工具就像是我青少年时期的ChatGPT。

All of these things were like the chat GPT of my time as a teenager.

AskJeeves就像是当时的ChatGPT。

AskJeeves was like chat GPT.

你可以输入任何问题，然后就会弹出各种来源提供的不同答案。

You could type in any question you want and you would get a bunch of sources popping up with different answers.

ChatGPT也是同样的运作方式。

ChatGPT is the same way.

它正在学习。

It's learning.

它正在被教导。

It's being taught.

但你怎么知道它的信息来源是哪里？

But how do you know where it's pulling its information from?

在使用当今技术时，你必须考虑并质疑所有这些因素。

All of these things you have to consider, have to take into question when you're going to be using technology today.

嘿，非常感谢大家一路关注。

Hey, we appreciate you guys following along.

艾弗里，非常感谢你能来参与讨论。

Avery, thank you so much for being here and jumping in.

谢谢邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

当然。

Absolutely.

真是愉快的时光。

It's a great time.

是的。

Yes.

嘿朋友们，别忘了在YouTube、苹果播客、谷歌播客、Spotify等平台订阅我们的节目。

Hey guys, don't forget subscribe to our show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and more.

请务必加入我们，我们将继续探讨当今现代文化及基督徒在这一周内如何在这种文化中生活。

Be sure to join us as we continue to talk about the modern culture today and the Christian living in it throughout the week.

祝你今天愉快。

Have a great day.