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他还活着，我们也活着。
He's alive, and so are we.
接下来是来自巴尔的摩的《恩典时刻》播客节目。
And, this is the Grace Hour show podcast coming to you from Baltimore.
巴尔的摩其实没那么冷。
Not so cold Baltimore.
我们今天的温度已经升到冰点以上了，赞美主。
We actually got up above freezing Praise the Lord.
但我们依然在这里，为这期播客做准备。
But we are here in our studio, for this podcast.
本周，我们要看一段非常短的经文，以弗所书第二章的六节经文，嗯。
This week, we're looking at a very small passage of scripture, six verses in Ephesians two Mhmm.
关于保罗写给以弗所人的教导，这是他其中一封狱中书信。
About Paul writing, to the Ephesians, significant teaching, one of his prison epistles.
也许，你知道，这是一封重要的狱中书信。
Maybe, you know, it's a significant prison epistle.
这段经文大量谈到基督的身体、丈夫要像基督爱教会一样爱妻子，以及神的全副军装。
It talks a lot about the body of Christ, about husbands loving your wives as Christ loved the church and also the armor of God.
所有这些内容。
All of that.
我们正在谈论的是向神活过来，活出属神的生命。
We're talking about, coming alive, being alive unto God.
我是史蒂夫·安德拉诺尼斯牧师，今天和我一起的是雷纳尔多·布朗牧师。
And, I'm pastor Steve Andralonis with you with me today with me today, pastor Renaldo Brown.
我们俩已经有一段时间没在一起了，因为之前有些旅行，参与了一些非洲事工。
It's been a while since the two of us have been together because a little bit of traveling, a little bit of African ministry.
我们非常感恩有这个机会，以及那里正在发生的一切，我们也知道那里需要你们。
We we just grateful for that possibility and all that's happening there, and we know that you're needed there.
所以，我们守住了阵地。
So we held down the fort.
上周，我们有耶户。
Last week, we had Jehu.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
不是耶胡。
Not Jehu.
让·博尔。
Jean Bor.
耶胡现在在这里主持董事会，但他之前来过。
Jehu is here running the board, but he was here.
让·博尔，我们上周请来了来自匈牙利的让·博尔，
Jean Bor, we had a great Jean Bor from Hungary did
一个
a
表现非常出色。
great job with us last week.
但本周我们要讨论这段经文，今天想看看我们如何在神里面活过来。
But we're talking this week about this this passage, and we want to look at this today about how we come alive in God.
我认为，当你这样表达时，就像是在要求我们去执行动词的行动，嗯。
And I think when they when you phrase something like that, it's like when you're asking us to produce the action of the verb Mhmm.
这句话的结构是错误的，因为我们无法让自己活过来。
The sentence is structured wrong because we cannot make ourselves alive.
是的。
Yes.
从一开始就是如此。
And this has been true since the beginning.
对。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
亚当有鼻孔。
Adam had nostrils.
这些鼻孔为上帝的呼吸而存在，他就被赋予了生命。
Those nostrils were available for the breath of God, and he was quickened.
他成了有生命的灵魂。
He became a living soul.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以每当我们谈论苏醒时，也必须审视生命的源头。
So whenever we talk about coming alive, we also have to look at the source of life.
并希望引导我们进入这个讨论。
And want to launch us into this discussion.
当然。
Sure.
我认为上帝对我们生命的看法，与我们自己的看法不同，其中既有天然的倾向，也有属灵的倾向。
I think God's viewpoint about our life is different than our viewpoint about our life, where there's a natural disposition and there is a spiritual disposition.
哥林多前书15章46节说：首先是天然的，然后才是属灵的。
First Corinthians fifteen forty six says, first comes the natural, then comes the spiritual.
天然的倾向就是我们活着是为了死亡。
The natural disposition is that we live to die.
我们活着是为了死亡。
We live to die.
我们出生，然后活着是为了死亡。
We're born and then we live to die.
但属灵的性情是基于神的心意，即我们死去才能活着。
But the spiritual disposition is based upon God's mind where we die to live.
我们死去才能活着。
We die to live.
这确实是新约甚至旧约中属灵生命的前提：我们死去才能活着。
And that's really the premise of life, spiritual life in the New Testament, even in the Old Testament is that we die to live.
因此，作为信徒，当我们谈论活着时，我们会想到重生或再生。
So for us as believers, when we talk about living, we think about being born again or regeneration.
我们将属灵的生命视为神在人生命中的作为。
We think about spiritual life as a work of God in the life of a human being.
我们看到这种变化发生在救恩的某一刻。
And we look at that happening at a moment in time in salvation.
但我们也谈论这种体验在时间中的持续过程。
But then we also talk about that the experience of that throughout time.
我认为关键就在于理解，重生的途径——我想罗马书3章2节很好地说明了这一点——并不是靠律法的行为。
And, I think that's the key right there is understanding that the means of regeneration, and I guess, Romans three:two kind of brings it out nicely, was not by the works of law.
以弗所书第二章也提到这一点，而是靠神的工作，靠神的工作。
And you get that also in Ephesians chapter two, but by the work of God, by the work of God.
所以，得着生命是神的工作。
So being made alive is a work of God.
所以，无论你是今天的不信者还是信徒，属灵的生命都是神的工作。
So whether you're an unbeliever or a believer today, being spiritually alive is a work of God.
自然的生命也是神的工作，但那种具有救赎意义的属灵生命，同样是神的工作。
Being naturally alive is also a work of God, but being spiritually alive where it's redemptive is a work of God.
因此，作为信徒，有时你会陷入我所谓的‘属灵低谷’，感觉自己的属灵生活停滞不前。
So sometimes as a believer, you can get in these, what I call these dull spots where you kind of feel like you're lagging in your walk with God.
你会想：我并没有在属灵生活中感到满足。
You're like, I I don't feel like I'm fulfilled in my spiritual living.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
我的祷告感觉停滞了。
My prayers feel stagnant.
有时我的圣经学习会心不在焉，时进时出。
My Bible study at times, I can drift in and out.
我在属灵操练上不够稳定。
I'm inconsistent in my disciplines.
我发现自己在教会里。
I find myself in church.
我的脑海里充满了太多其他的事情。
My mind is full of so many other things.
我很容易分心。
I'm distracted.
你会问自己：我该如何重新活过来？
And you ask yourself, how do I get alive?
我该怎么回到从前的状态？
How do I get how do I get back to where I was?
我该怎么重新活过来？
How do I get alive?
我会这样回答这个问题。
Well, I would answer it this way.
正如歌罗西书2章6节所说，你怎样接受了基督的生命，也应当以同样的方式在当下的时刻经历祂的生命。
It's the same formula in Colossians two six that you received Christ, his life, is the same way you experience his life in a moment in time.
这个方法就是从死到生。
And that formula is death to life.
是的。
Mhmm.
我们在与神的关系中经历从死到生，唯一的途径就是十字架。
And the only way that we get death to life in our experience with God is through the cross.
我会这样说：我们怎样在神里面得着生命，也应当怎样在神里面活出生命。
I would say it this way, the way we were made alive in God is the way we live alive in God.
我们被神使活过来的方式，就是我们活在神生命里的方式。
The way we were made alive in God is the way we live alive in God.
这需要一个实际的十字架。
And that requires a practical cross.
若不应用实际的十字架，我们就不会经历神的生命。
Without the application of a practical cross, will not experience the life of God.
我需要，我需要那个实际的十字架。
I need, I need that practical.
我在十字架那里，就像那首歌说的，在十字架上我第一次看见了光。
I was at the cross where I would, like the song says, at the cross where I first saw the light.
我们在十字架上灵里得生，也持续在十字架上经历神的生命。
We were spiritually made alive at the cross and we continue to experience the life of God at the cross.
约翰一书五章说，有了神的儿子就有生命，但你需要十字架才能经历这生命。
First John five talks about he who has the son has life, but you need the cross to experience that.
是的。
Yeah.
体验生命的机制是十字架，正如地位生命的机制也是十字架。
The mechanism for experiential life is the cross, just like the mechanism for positional life was the cross.
我常常从这个角度思考我从神那里所需的一切。
And I often think about that in terms of everything I need from God.
这一切都始于十字架。
It starts at the cross.
那就是一切的起点。
That's where it begins.
我的历史始于十字架。
My history starts at the cross.
我的经历始于十字架。
My experience starts at the cross.
我的生命始于十字架。
My life starts at the cross.
每一天都与十字架同在。
Every day is at the cross.
保罗在哥林多前书15章31节说了什么？
What did Paul say in first Corinthians fifteen thirty one?
他说：我每日都死。
He said, I die daily.
是的。
Mhmm.
他说，每天要活出神的生命，就必须经历死亡。
He said, every day to reach the life of God, there has to be a death.
向我的偏好死，向我的想法死，向我的观点死，无论我今天带着怎样的先入之见，我都将它们放下。
Death to my preferences, death to my thinking, death to my viewpoint, whatever preconceived notions I have going into today, I lay that down.
就像保罗在提摩太后书第4章所说的，我将我的生命倾倒出来。
Like Paul said, I pour out my life in second Timothy chapter four.
我将它们放下。
I lay that down.
我把这一切倾倒给神，然后领受祂的生命。
I pour that out to God, and then I take up his life.
我一直在思考这个想法，史蒂夫牧师，我们总是谈论活着的恩典。
I've been thinking about this thought a little bit, pastor Steve, that we always talk about grace to live.
但当我们来到希伯来书四章十六节的十字架前时，我们得到的不只是活着的恩典。
But when we come to the cross in Hebrews four sixteen, we don't just get grace to live.
我们得到的是死去的恩典。
We get grace to die.
是的。
Yeah.
基督教中一个很大的误区是，我是一个甘愿赴死的人。
One of the great myths of Christianity is that I'm a willing dier.
我我我我愿意去死。
I I I I'm willing to die.
哦，你应该为基督而死。
Oh, you should give die to Christ.
不。
No.
我不愿意死。
I'm not willing to die.
我不希望我的肉体死去，我也不想扼杀我的肉体。
I don't want my flesh doesn't wanna die, and I don't wanna kill my flesh.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
无论你告诉我多少次要杀死肉体，都会有一个自我保护机制启动，让我不想死。
No matter how much you tell me to kill my flesh, there's a self preservation mechanism that kicks in where I don't wanna die.
所以神赐给我的第一份恩典，就是死的恩典，嗯哼。
So God the first grace God gives me is the grace to die Mhmm.
他赐给我向自己死去的能力，向我所渴望的一切死去的能力。
To my he gives me the capacity to die to who I am, the capacity to die to what I want.
他在希伯来书四章十六节赐给我这样的恩典。
He gives me grace for that in Hebrews four sixteen.
他赐给我死的恩典，然后又赐给我活的恩典。
He gave me the grace to die, and then he gives me the grace to live.
是的。
Yeah.
但神并没有说你要自己想办法死去。
But God doesn't say figure out how to die on your own.
当你自己试图找出如何死去的方法时，我会立刻以恩典来让你活过来。
And when you figure out on your own how to die, now I'm gonna rush in with the grace for you to live.
不。
No.
神说，我为这两方面都预备了恩典。
God says, I've got grace for both sides.
基督的两方面都有恩典。
There's grace for both sides of Christ.
耶稣基督有死去的恩典，也有复活的恩典。
Jesus Christ had grace to die, and he had grace to resurrect.
所以，如果基督拥有这一切，那么你和我也拥有，我们每天都有恩典来向自己、向世界、向自己的方式、向肉体、向旧的罪性死去。
So if if Christ had that, then you and I have that, and we have the grace to die every day to ourselves, to our world, to our ways, to the flesh, to the old sin nature.
我们有恩典去死。
We have grace to die.
这是当天的第一份恩典。
That's the first grace of the day.
是的。
Yeah.
当天的第一份恩典。
First grace of the day.
这就是我的每日灵修。
That's my daily devotional.
我每日都死去。
I die daily.
我有恩典去死。
I have the grace to die.
保罗之所以能自信地说出这句话，是因为他明白恩典在他生命中的运作。
Paul was confident he could say that because he understood what grace was working in his life.
对吧？
Right?
如果我如今的样子是出于上帝的恩典，那就意味着我有恩典去死，也有恩典去活。
If I am what I am by the grace of God, that means I have the grace to die and I have the grace to live.
这就是我们生活的样式。
And that's how we live.
这就是我得以活过来的方式。
That that's how I'm made alive.
这是借着十字架上恩典的工作，而不是靠肉体的努力。
It's by at the cross, through the work of grace, not through the work of the flesh.
你无法使自己死去。
You cannot make yourself dead.
你无法使自己活过来。
You cannot make yourself alive.
这太奇妙了。
That's amazing.
我喜欢你刚才说的，关于实践性十字架的应用，因为我觉得你是在客观地谈论。
I like what you said there when you said the application of a practical cross because I think you're talking objectively.
我认为，将十字架视为一种主观关系，会阻碍你被唤醒，正如以弗所书第二章第一节所说，当你在过犯和罪恶中死去时，就被唤醒了。
And I think the idea of a subjective relationship to the cross keeps you from being quickened as the first verse of Ephesians two says, quickened when you were dead in trespasses and sins.
所以，正如你所说，实践性十字架的应用实际上表明：把诫命看作某种负面的生命体征。
So, like you said, the application of a practical cross really indicates that, okay, think of the commandments as sort of like vital signs in a negative way.
就像保罗所写的，若不是诫命告诉我，我根本不知道什么是贪婪。
Like Paul wrote, I didn't know what it meant to covet except the commandment told me that I was covetous.
同样的道理，这是一种生命体征。
And the same thing, it's a vital sign.
这表明你里面有一些活着的东西。
It's like there's something alive in you.
你里面有一个活着的旧人，需要客观地归到十字架上。
There's a old man that's alive in you that needs to go to the cross objectively.
你需要客观地明白十字架如何为你我所欠的罪债付上了代价。
And you need to see objectively what the cross did in terms of paying for the debt of sin that we have.
所以你可能会从主观角度看待十字架。
So you could be subjective about the cross.
我背起我的十字架。
I take up my cross.
就像我感到压力重重一样。
It's just like I'm so burdened.
正如你所说，你提到我们可能会陷入迟钝。
Like you said, you were talking, we can sink into dullness.
我觉得这就是关键。
I think that's the thing.
试图靠自己激发活力
The idea of trying to self stimulate
就是这样。
That's it.
不通过十字架而想让自己活过来，这不是正确地应用十字架。
And get ourselves alive without going to the cross is not is not doing the application of the cross in the right way.
我们必须认识到自己需要被唤醒。
We have to see ourselves as in need of the quickening.
如果我们需要唤醒，就必须算自己向罪是死的。
And if we need quickening, we have to reckon ourselves dead indeed onto sin.
如果我们不做这样的计算，那么得着生命几乎是不可能的。
So if we don't make those kind of calculations, then coming alive is like impossible.
是的。
Yeah.
因为就连耶稣也说，一粒麦子不落在地里死了，仍旧是一粒。
Because even Jesus said unless a a corn of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.
你知道，没有死亡，就没有复活。
There's no you know, resurrection doesn't happen unless there's a death.
对吧？
Right?
就是这样。
That's it.
必须死去。
Gotta die.
每个人都想活着。
And everybody wants to live.
没人想死。
Nobody wants to die.
但我们的榜样是，他先死了。
But our example is that he died first.
是的。
Yeah.
我们匆匆跳过我所说的‘谋杀星期五’。
We we we rush past what I call murder Friday.
我们越过谋杀星期五，直奔复活星期日。
We run past murder Friday to get to resurrection Sunday.
哈利路亚。
Hallelujah.
上帝说：不行。
God's like, no.
必须要有死亡。
There has to be death.
上帝对属灵生命的态度总是以死亡为开端。
God's disposition towards spiritual life always begins with death.
是的。
Yeah.
对我们而言，以及我们与上帝的关系来说。
For the for us and our relationship with God.
就像路加福音9章23节所说的，要背起你的十字架。
It's like Luke nine twenty three talking about taking up your cross.
你背起的是什么？
What are you taking up?
你背起的是十字架的现实。
You're taking up the reality of the cross.
你所承担的是十字架本身的人格，以及那个人品格的承载能力。
You're taking up the person of the cross, and you're taking up the capacity of the character of that person.
你所承担的是神的恩典。
You're taking up the grace of God.
你所领受的这种个体能力，正是你用来经历并逐步活出神生命的途径。
That individual capacity you're receiving is what you're using to experience and live progressively God's life.
这不是承担责任。
It's not taking up the responsibility.
这是承担一种关系的结果。
It's taking up the results of a relationship.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我认为，要回应那种让人感到困惑的感觉——我如何才能活过来？
And I think, you know, to address, you know, what made you know, the feeling that some people are having, how do I come alive?
我认为诗篇第一篇告诉我们，想要像被栽种在生命河旁一样。
I think the first Psalm tells us that, you know, want to be planted by the river of life.
我想起约伯记14章里提到，当闻到水的气息时，嗯。
And I think of the passage in Job 14 about at the scent of water Mhmm.
一棵树还能重新发芽，你知道的。
A tree can bud again, you know.
谈谈一个人如何学习向自己死。
And talk about someone who's learning how to die to himself.
约伯无疑是我们的好榜样。
Joe is certainly like a prime example for us.
我们看到他失去了所有，正在与各种想法挣扎。
Like, we see that he's lost everything and he's wrestling with all of the ideas.
我认为他首先知道他的救赎者活着。
I think his first he knows his redeemer lives.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以，仅仅用这个词，他就知道有一些东西能带他进入神的生命。
And so just though using that word, he knows that there is something that he needs to bring him to the life of God.
但他仍然在内心深处不断探索。
But he's still he's still sort of searching himself inside there.
但我觉得我们可以谈谈活水如何使我们得生命。
But I think like we could talk about the way living water makes us alive.
就像我们知道撒玛利亚妇人，耶稣应许她，尽管她曾生活在罪恶中。
It's like we know the woman at the well, Jesus promised her in spite of all the sinfulness that she had lived in.
他能赐给她活水，使她以心灵和诚实敬拜。
He could give her this living water and she could worship in spirit and in truth.
而且，你知道，我们可以谈谈活水的本性，也许这活水也向我们开放，那就是神话语的更新大能，你知道，听起来我们好像在反复强调同一个观点。
And, you know, just talk about the nature of living water maybe that is available to us to, you know, the power of the word of God, the quickening power of the word of God is, you know, maybe it sounds like we're, you know, we're we're banging the same drum, the same note.
但当我们告诉你回到神的话语，当我们将人引导回神的话语，去得着其中的生命时，你知道，我们实在没有其他资源能像神所讲、所赐的话语那样有力量，它能在我们里面做工。
But really, when we tell you to go back to the Word of God and we tell people to go back to the Word of God and and get the life that is there, you know, we really don't have any other resource that's as powerful as the word of God that was spoken by him and given by him and, you know, and does the work inside of us.
是的。
Yeah.
这正是卫斯理所谈论的。
And that's what Wesley talked about.
当卫斯理谈到他感觉自己的信仰生活毫无生气时。
When Wesley was talking about how he he felt like his life of faith was dead.
他觉得自己没有进步。
He felt like he wasn't progressing.
他一直在等待信仰上的一次巨大飞跃，嗯。
He was waiting for this big jump in his faith Mhmm.
但这一切并没有发生。
And it wasn't happening.
他一直在等待。
He was waiting.
他以为这会是一种外在的显现，比如他的房间会发生变化。
He he thought it was something demonstrative, like some his room would change.
他的房间里会充满一种灵性的氛围。
There'd be a spirit in his room.
会有某种沉重的东西击中他。
Something would hit him heavy.
然后他读到了罗马书10章17节：信心是从听道来的，听道是从基督的话来的。
And then he read Romans ten seventeen, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
上帝话语的能力改变了他的信心。
The power of the word of God changed his faith.
上帝话语的能力使他的信心活了过来。
The power of the word of God made his faith walk alive.
我认为我们低估了上帝的话语在人生命中的力量。
I think we underestimate the power of the word of God in someone's life.
在提摩太后书第3章第16节，希伯来书第4章第12节，上帝的话语是大有能力的。
In second Timothy chapter three verse 16, in Hebrews chapter four verse 12, the word of God is powerful.
圣经通篇都在谈论这一点。
The Bible talks throughout it.
圣经多次提到自身，讲述上帝话语的权能。
The Bible talks about itself about how powerful the word of God is.
你认为为什么这是耶稣说要每日靠之而活的唯一事物？
Why do you think it's the one thing Jesus says live by daily.
他说你要常常祷告，但他特别强调，除了祷告之外，人活着不是单靠食物。
He says you pray always, but he makes a point to say besides prayer, he makes a point to say, man shall not live by bread alone.
而是靠每一个，他没有说那些你喜爱的、你能理解的好话。
But by every and he he didn't say the good words, the word that you like, the words you understand.
他说是靠从神口中所出的每一个话，这对你而言。
He said by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, this is for you.
这对你而言。
This is for you.
讽刺的是，他在自己一无所有的时候说了这句话。
And ironically, he kind of says that in a moment when he was lacking everything else.
是的。
Yeah.
他什么都没有了，朋友、身体、食物，一切都失去了。
He's missing everything else, friends, body, food, everything's gone.
他说，人活着不是单靠食物。
He said, but man shall not live by bread alone.
撒旦说：你的食物在哪里？
And Satan's like, that's where's your food?
他说：我有比食物更宝贵的东西，在更深的层次上。
He said, well, I have something greater than food, something on a a deeper level.
神的话语使我得生命。
The word of God brings me alive.
通过神的话语，我的生命中充满能力。
There's power in my life through the word of God.
我们可以通过神的爱得着更新。
We can get quickened by the love of God.
哥林多后书第五章第十四节，罗马书第五章第五节，神的爱能让我们的心与神的心相连。
Second Corinthians chapter five verse 14, Romans five five, the love of God can bring us alive to the heart of God.
嗯。
Mhmm.
神的心意能让我们活出神的思想，以赛亚书第五十五章。
The mind of God can bring us alive to the the thoughts of God, Isaiah 55.
神所在之处，神所重视的，也应当成为我所重视的。
The the where God is what's God what's important to God becomes important to be.
神的灵，罗马书第八章第十一节，就是那使耶稣从死里复活的同一灵，这能力该有多么大呢？
The spirit of God, Romans eight eleven, this same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, how much how much powerful can that be?
这同一灵也能使我们必死的身体活过来。
This same spirit can also quicken our mortal bodies.
我喜欢保罗在罗马书第八章所说的。
I like what Paul says in Romans eight.
他不只是说我们的灵，而是说我们的必死之体，我的肉体也能以属灵的方式被唤醒，拥有超越我平常所能达到的能力。
He doesn't just say our spirit, he says our mortal bodies, my physical body can be quickened in a spiritual way that I have a capacity beyond what I normally would have.
即使我感到疲倦，我仍然可以有效果。
So I might be tired, but I can still be effective.
即使我疲惫不堪，我仍然可以作见证。
I might be worn, but I can still have a witness.
我仍能被神激励，因为圣灵的唤醒。
I can still be motivated by God because of the quickening of the Holy Spirit.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
当我们谈论上帝的话语时，我们知道有些人只是以学术的、枯燥的方式来看待圣经。
When we talk about the Word of God, we know that there are people who look at the Word of God in an academic and dusty a dusty level.
这些文字对他们来说，没有真正发挥应有的影响力。
It's like the pages don't really speak to them the way they should.
你可能会以一种学术的方式对待上帝的话语，然后感到困惑，对吧？
It's like you can have an academic orientation to the word of God and and wonder, you know?
嗯哼
Mhmm.
因为你知道，我们都知道有些人能背诵大量经文。
Because if, you know, if you you know, we all know people who who could who memorize a lot of scripture.
但他们真的活出这些经文了吗？
And but do they live it?
它在他们里面是活的吗？
Is it is it alive in them?
圣灵是那股激活的力量。
And the Holy Spirit is activating force there.
如果没有圣灵使这话语成为它原本该有的样子，没有这一点，你可能只有研究，却没有启示。
Without the Holy Spirit making that word what it's intended to be, without that, you know, you can have investigation without inspiration.
说得真好。
Well said.
你知道，你会去探究，比如希腊文的时态，所有这些东西。
You know, and so you search it out, you know, the Greek tenses, all of that stuff.
如果得不到上帝所赐的活力，这些内容虽然很好、很有力量，但也会非常枯燥。
Very good, very powerful, very dry though, if it isn't like enlivened by what God gave.
对吧？
Right?
哥林多前书3:6，字句叫人死，精意叫人活。
First Corinthians three:six, the letter killeth, but the spirit gives life.
我需要生命。
I need life.
这正是让神的话语对我而言变得真实可行的原因。
That's that's what makes the word of God practically real for me.
这使它变得富有体验上的流动性。
That's what it makes it experientially fluid.
它开始融入我日常生活的各个角落。
It starts to fit in the nooks and crannies of my day.
它仿佛在我有意识和无意识的地方都遇见我，向我说话，告诉我：这是神透过圣灵向你的心意，因为圣灵将神的心意，透过神的品格传达出来。
It's like, it meets me in the places where I'm conscious and in the places where I'm not so conscious, and it addresses me, And it says, here's my God's mind towards you filtered through the spirit because the spirit takes God's mind and applies it through God's character.
没有圣灵，我很难将神的心意转化为符合神品格的实际应用。
Without the spirit, I can it's hard for me to take God's mind and apply it, make it applicable in God's character.
我需要圣灵来搭建这座桥梁，因为圣灵能透过神的心意将神的品格赐给我。
I need the Holy Spirit to make that bridge because the Holy Spirit is able to give me God's character through God's mind.
是的。
Yeah.
没有圣灵，我很难以恩典的眼光来看待圣经。
Without without the Holy Spirit, it's hard for me to see the word graciously.
非常困难。
Very hard.
是的。
Yeah.
所以约翰一书五章三节说，神的诫命不是难守的，因为有圣灵，也有神的性情，它们以实际而个人的方式过滤并照亮圣经。
That's why in first John five three, the commandments are not grievous because there is a there is the holy spirit and there is the character of God, which filters and illuminates the word of God in a practical and personal way.
你就能明白神的心意。
And you get the heart of God.
你就能明白神的心意。
You get the heart of God.
我觉得有时候，史蒂夫牧师，我们会陷入教会宗派文化，我们那些小小的体系中。
I think sometimes we can get caught up, pastor Steve, in church denominational culture, our little our little systems.
问题是，也许你曾经有一段时期，你的体系让你对神充满热情。
And and the thing is maybe there was a season when your system kinda got you vibrant for God.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但很多时候，如果某人的灵修变得乏味了。
But how many times if someone's but it gets stale.
就像这样，好吧。
It's like, okay.
我每天早上都会花半小时进行灵修。
I do my half an hour devotional every morning.
我每天早上都会花十分钟祷告，久而久之就形成了固定模式。
I have my ten minutes of prayer every morning, and you get in this routine.
到了某个时候，它就变得机械了，我失去了其中的生命力。
And at some point, it becomes mechanical, and I lose the life of it.
我失去了其中的生命力。
I lose the life of it.
那我该如何重新找回它呢？
So how do I get that back?
我怎样才能重新获得这种被赋予生命的感觉呢？
How do I get that's that's another side of being made alive.
我怎样才能重新获得这种感觉呢？
How do I get that back?
是的。
Yeah.
因为你有自己的小习惯。
Because you've got your little routines.
我有自己特制的咖啡杯，上面印着我的名字，或者我有特定的时间、特定的角落，所有这些特别的安排。
I have my special cup of coffee with my name on the side, or I have my special time, my special corner, all these special things.
非常非常具体。
It's very, very specific.
嗯。
Mhmm.
非常非常有规律。
It's very, very routine.
但有时如果不小心，我会更在意这些例行公事，而不是关系本身，于是它就失去了生命力。
But at some point, if I'm not careful, I'm in it for the routine more than the relationship, and it loses its life.
是的。
Yeah.
然后，这对我就不再有收益了。
And then it this is no longer profitable to me.
它反而成了我的阻碍。
It actually becomes a hindrance to me.
它变得陈旧了。
It gets stale.
它不再新鲜了。
It's not fresh.
对于信徒来说，你从神那里领受的许多东西，并不是指你以前从未听过的新内容。
And for the believer, a lot of things you receive from God are not new in the sense of you've never heard them before.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但很多事，争的不是新奇，
But a lot of them but the battle isn't for newness.
争的是鲜活。
The battle is for freshness.
就像一条面包。
Kinda like a loaf of bread.
我们第一次吃面包时，面包对你来说是新的。
The first time we had bread, bread was new to you.
但现在我喜欢面包，是因为它新鲜、温热、暖和。
But now I like bread because it's fresh, it's hot, it's warm.
就是这些方面，你知道的？
It's all those kind of things, you know?
所以我需要在我生命中有些新鲜的东西。
So it's like, I need something fresh in my wall.
我想很多听众也在思考这个问题。
And I think many of our listeners, that's what they're thinking about.
他们想的不是与上帝保持生命的关系。
They're not thinking about being alive to God.
我如何在与上帝的关系中保持新鲜感？
How do I have freshness in my life with God?
这或许是一个值得探讨的好问题。
That might be a great question to address.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
我该怎么，嗯，怎么...
How do I how do yeah.
怎么，嗯...
How yeah.
我们该如何避免让这些例行公事、属灵操练，像你所说的那样，仅仅变成一种形式？
How does how do we keep from allowing the routines, the spiritual practices from becoming, like you said, just is it?
那是什么？
What is it?
只是徒劳的重复。
Just vain repetitions.
这是个大问题。
That's a big thing.
也许秘诀在于地方教会。
And think maybe the secret is the local church.
好的。
Okay.
就像如果你和别人在一起，你就能看到上帝在他人生命中的作为。
It's like if you are with other people, then you you can see the work of God in another's life.
而且，
And,
你知道，因为身体是由许多部分组成的，你知道，我们有耳朵、眼睛和嘴巴。
you know, because a body is made of many parts, you know, we have ears and eyes and mouths.
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我们有手指和脚趾。
We have fingers and toes.
为了正常运作和作为一个人行动，我们需要所有这些部位。
We need all of those in order to operate properly and to move about our business as a physical person.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但你知道，保罗之所以做这些类比，是有原因的，
But, you know, there's a reason why Paul drew those comparisons,
就像
like
说，就像基督的身体，我们彼此契合，不是每个人都是眼睛，不是每个人都是嘴巴，也不是每个人都是手。
to say, and, you know, like the body of Christ, we are fitted together and not everyone is an eye, not everyone is a mouth, and not everyone is a hand.
但总的来说，事情就会发生。
But altogether, things happen.
所以，如果你身上有一种死气，那秘密可能是，是的，神的话是活的，圣灵。
So if you if there is a deadness about you, it could be that the secret is, yeah, the word of God is living, the Holy Spirit.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但还有另一个方面，你被造是为了成为某事物的一部分。
But also this other element that you were made to be a part of something.
你知道，截肢就是截肢。
And, you know, you know, an amputation is an amputation.
一段时间后，那种被截断的平安。
After a while, that that amputated peace.
如果你把自己从基督的身体中分离出来，你就得不到生命的涌流。
If you take yourself apart from the body of Christ, then you're not getting the flow of life.
你得不到智慧。
Intelligence, you're not getting the intelligence.
你得不到神经系统带来的敏感性，甚至也得不到应有的血液流动，对吧？
You're not getting the sensitivity that comes from the nervous system, you're not even getting the flow of blood that could come, right?
是的。
Yeah.
我明白你想表达的意思。
Like where you're going with that.
我们被造是为了群体生活。
We were made for community.
我们拥有推理和沟通能力，正是因为被造是为了群体生活。
The reason why we have the ability to reason and communicate, we were made for community.
神让亚当之后的人类繁衍增多，因为我们生来就是为了群体生活。
God multiplied man beyond Adam because we were built for community.
即使该隐在创世记第四章中最糟糕的境况中，也去建造了城市。
Even Cain in his worst estate in Genesis four went and built the city.
我们被造是为了群体生活。
We were made for community.
我们被神造就，为要彼此相交、共同生活。
We're made we're bred by God to commune and to commune together.
在这个后疫情时代的孤立与分离中，许多人已经走得太远，只关注自我，甚至误以为网络就是获得群体的方式，但你无法在网络上真正相交。
So in this generation of isolation and separation post COVID, many people have gone very far to I and and and they they give themselves this myth that online is how I get community, but you cannot commune online.
不。
No.
你可以连接，但无法真正相交。
There's you can connect, but you can't commune.
所以我根本不喜欢把‘社区’这个词用在任何线上群体上，因为那根本不是社区。
That's why I don't even like the word community added to any online group because it's not community.
那只是相交而已。
It's just communing.
那只是连接。
It's connection rather.
那是连接。
It's connection.
那只是电子集合，而且非常有限。
It's electronic collection, and it's very limited.
你看不到人们的脸，或者你看到了，但你在网上的样子和你现实中的样子截然不同。
You you don't see people's faces or you do, but who you are online is so different than who you are in person.
这是支离破碎的，孤立的，分离的。
It's disjointed, it's isolated, it's separated.
天啊，你在网上可能有勇气说出所有这些精彩的话，但面对面时却一句话都说不出来。
Man, you could have all this courage to say all these amazing things online and then in person, have nothing to say.
你根本没有性格或个性上的联系。
You have no you have no connection of character or or personality.
所以我们生来就是为了社群而存在的。
So it's like we are born for community.
很多时候我去传教，和人们交谈时，我会问他们，他们会说，这些事正发生在我身上。
Many times I I go evangelize, I talk to people and I ask them, I'll say things like, they'll say, this is happening in my life.
这些事正发生在我身上。
This is happening in my life.
这正发生着，我总是会问这个问题：你属于一个本地教会吗？
This is hap and I always ask this question, do you belong to a local assembly?
而几乎每次，答案都是没有。
And invariably, the answer is no.
我说，地方教会并不能解答你生活中所有的问题，但你被上帝造就是为了归属一个属灵的群体。
I said, well, the local assembly doesn't have all the answers to what's wrong with your life, but you were bred by God for community, spiritual community.
我们被上帝设计为要一起与祂相交。
We were designed by God to commune with him corporately.
所以教会是你生命的一部分。
So church is part of your life.
它是赐予你生命的礼物。
It's a gift to your life.
当你不操练这份恩赐时，你就错过了团契。
When you don't exercise that gift, you miss out on community.
你或许可以通过电话和互联网获得联系，但没有任何东西能替代真正的团契。
You may get connection through phone calls and the Internet, but you don't have there's no substitute for community.
上帝在祂的群体中所成就的独特工作，是祂在个体身上所不做的。
There's something God does unique in the community of God that he doesn't do individually in the body of in in the individual people.
这是一种独特的恩典、膏抹、教导与生命的祝福。
It's a unique blessing of faith and anointing and instruction and life.
生命。
Life.
有一种生命正在缺失。
There's a life that's missing.
它只存在于群体之中。
It's only found in the community.
也许我之所以没有活力，是因为我没有连接。
And maybe the reason why I'm not alive is I'm not connected.
我没有与人相交。
I'm not communing.
是的。
Yeah.
我没有与人相交。
I'm not communing.
你不能独自坐在山里的角落里做奶酪和果酱，却指望独自一人活得有生机。
You cannot sit in your corner in the mountains and make cheese and jam and expect to be alive alone.
是的。
Yeah.
即使是新约中最伟大的作家保罗，在《使徒行传》第11章中，巴拿巴也去寻找扫罗。
Even the greatest writer of the New Testament, Paul, Acts chapter 11, Barnabas went to seek Saul.
为什么巴拿巴要去寻找扫罗？
Why did Barnabas go seek Saul?
扫罗正在接受上帝的教义教导。
Saul is being taught doctrine by God.
他正在与上帝一同成长。
He's growing with God.
扫罗需要什么？
What did Saul need?
嗯。
Mhmm.
上帝的群体。
The community of God.
是的。
Yeah.
就在那之后
And right after
而这个群体需要他。
And the community needed him.
这正是另一个要点。
Exact which is the other point.
没错。
That's Yeah.
这是《撒母耳记上》第18章。
That's the first Samuel 18.
他说，当你不在的时候，你的位置是空着的，你的位置被人怀念。
He's like, when you're not here, your place is your seat is empty, and your place is missed.
意思是，我们想念你，你也想念我们，我们需要彼此，因为这就是神的群体。
Meaning, we miss you, and you miss us, and we need each other because that's the community of God.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
对吧？
Right?
这正是你在哥林多前书12章提到的观点。
That's that's the point you said in first Corinthians 12.
是的。
Yeah.
每个关节都提供支持。
Every joint supplies.
是的。
Yeah.
就像我们需要每一个部分。
It's like, we need every part.
你需要大脚趾。
You need the big toe.
你需要手肘。
You need the elbow.
你需要眉毛。
You need the eyebrow.
你需要所有的
You need all of
那些。
that.
是的。
Yes.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们都会错过，你也会错过。
So we miss and you miss.
这是一个双重否定。
It's it's a double negative.
我们都受苦。
We both suffer.
我们需要一个灵性的社群。
We need a spiritual community.
这是一种让生命焕发活力的好方式。
That's a great way to come alive.
你就是这么成长的。
That's how you grew.
你从哪里学到这么多关于上帝的事情？
Where did you learn all these things about God?
你不是通过上网链接学到这些的。
You didn't go to a link and learn those things.
你也不是通过上网链接学会祷告的。
You didn't go to a link and learn how to pray.
你是在上帝的社群中学会的。
You learned it in the community of God.
是的
Yeah.
一个链接无法教会我如何爱基督的身体。
A link can't teach me how to love the body of Christ.
它无法给予我这种表达。
It doesn't give me the expression.
对吧？
Right?
我们天生和灵里都是为两件事而造的：遮盖和团契，遮盖和团契。
We were built for two things, a covering and a community, naturally and spiritually, a covering and a community.
如果我有遮盖却没有团契，我就没有地方表达我的事工。
If I have a covering with no community, I have no place to express my ministry.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
如果我有团契却没有遮盖，我会变得鲁莽，可能会伤害别人。
If I have a community with no covering, I'm reckless and I can hurt people.
所以我需要两者。
So I need both.
我需要两者。
I need both.
这就是我焕发活力的方式。
And this is how I come alive.
是的。
Yeah.
这很棒。
It's great.
我的意思是，没错，就是这样，这正是你错过的时候，我喜欢你所说的这一点。
I mean, yeah, that's that's yeah, that's when you miss I like what you're saying there.
当你能在线上建立联系时。
When you when you can connect, digitally.
你知道，你可以建立联系。
Know, you can connect.
我了解我们。
I knew us.
是的。
Yeah.
我们在这里。
We're here.
是的。
Yeah.
我们在这里。
We're here.
我们在这里是为了在这个播客中与您建立联系。
We're here to connect with you on this podcast.
是的。
Yes.
但真正上帝赐予我们的团契，圣灵、天父和圣子渴望在人类中间复制的这种团契，就是这一点。
But, yeah, the communion that God really has for us, communion that the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son would like to replicate in the midst of humanity is the thing there.
祂并没有操控这一切。
And He's not manipulating it.
祂也没有预先编程这一切。
He's not pre programming it.
祂赐给我们真正的选择能力，让我们决定是否要成为某事物的一部分。
He's giving us the real capacity to decide and to choose to be a part of something or not to be a part of something.
这就像，你可能会读到一些问题，比如：为什么上帝要这样创造？
This is like, you you could read things like why did God make it that way?
因为祂正试图在我们中间复制圣灵、圣子与圣父之间的关系。
Well, He's trying to create like He's trying to create what's going on between the Spirit, the Son and the Father among us.
无论我们在哪里奉祂的名聚集，祂就在我们中间。
Wherever we are gathered in his name, he's there in our midst.
现在有个问题。
Now here's a question.
我们是在努力保持新鲜感的同时放弃常规，还是在枯燥中继续坚持，而不是彻底放弃？
Should we forego routine while struggling to keep it fresh or continue in it while stale rather than abandon.
我想你对这个问题可能有些想法。
And I'm thinking you probably have some thoughts about that.
比如说，你得吃饭。
It's like, let's say, you you need to eat.
如果你不吃东西，除非是上帝引导你禁食，否则你肯定需要三餐。
If you don't eat, unless God's leading you in a fast, then you're gonna need, you know, three squares
是的。
Sure.
或者类似的东西。
Or or something.
但为了维持身体生存而保持的日常习惯，是你必须坚持的。
But so the the routine to keep yourself alive physically is something that you have to maintain.
嗯。
But Mhmm.
那属灵方面呢，谈谈这个。
Spiritually, talk about that.
我想在这里小心一点。
I wanna be careful here.
在事工中，我们经常把自然的解决方案应用到教会里。
A lot of times in ministry, we take natural solutions and we apply them to the church.
比如在这种情况下，史蒂文，有人会说，好吧。
Like someone in this situation, Steven, someone would say, okay.
你知道，在健身房里，当你的训练变得单调时，你就想让它们变得更有意思。
Well, you know, in the gym, when your routine gets stale, you're you you want to you want to spice it up.
坚持下去。
Power through.
是的。
Yeah.
坚持下去。
Power through.
我不想这么做。
I don't want to do that.
但我想说的是，史蒂文，是这样。
But what would rather say, Steven, is this.
通常当我们缺乏新鲜感时，问题在于。
Usually when there's a this we we don't sense the freshness.
这是缺乏团契或缺乏同在。
It's a lack of communion or a lack of presence.
我们感受不到祂的同在。
We don't sense the presence.
嗯。
Mhmm.
无论我们做什么，我们都感受不到上帝在其中的同在。
Whatever we're doing, we don't sense the presence of God in what we're doing.
这并不意味着上帝不在，只是我们没有那么敏锐，如果我可以这么说的话。
It doesn't mean that God is not there, but we're not so in tune, if I can say it that way.
或者上帝是沉默的。
Or God is quiet.
明白吗？
Okay?
顺便说一下，有时候上帝沉默，是因为他知道我们根本没有能力听懂他要说的话。
And by the way, sometimes God is quiet because he he knows we have no capacity to hear what he has to say.
这跟个人的罪或其他任何事情都没有关系。
It's not about personal sin or anything else.
但上帝沉默，是因为在这一刻，也许你与上帝的关系状态，根本承受不了他要对你说的话。
But God is quiet because in this moment, maybe where you are with God, you couldn't take what he had to say anyway.
哈巴谷书一章五节就谈到了这一点。
Habakkuk one five talks about that.
我必在你们的日子做一件工作，即使我告诉你们，你们也不会相信，那我何必多费口舌呢？
I will work a work in your day that even if I told you, you wouldn't believe it, so why would I bother telling you?
所以有时候就是这样，而有时候上帝沉默，是因为他自有主权的旨意。
So sometimes it's that, and then sometimes God is quiet for his own sovereign reasons.
但我会说，对我而言，多样性会有帮助，史蒂文。
But I would say, for me, would say variety helps, Steven.
我会说，祷告的方式可以多样一些，不要总是一个样子。
I would say maybe different ways to pray, not just the same way.
比如，我自己的生活中有一个方面，史蒂文，我在祷告上可能会变得乏味。
Like sometimes we talk about, I have one area in my own life, Steven, I can get stale in his prayer.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因为祷告很容易变得过于程式化、机械化。
Because it it can be so methodical, so mechanical.
而且在我们事工所处的位置，我们会和很多人一起祷告。
And and in the the place that we have in ministry, we pray with a lot of people.
我们为很多人祷告。
We pray for a lot of people.
所以机械化的可能性确实存在。
So the potentially mechanical is there.
比如，我会为你祷告。
Like, I'll pray for you.
我会为你祷告。
I'll pray for you.
我会为你祷告。
I'll pray for you.
为了保持新鲜感，有时我会用圣经来祷告。
To keep it fresh, sometimes I will pray the Bible.
我会读一节经文，然后以那节经文祷告，这就是我的祷告。
I'll read a verse and pray that verse, and that is my prayer.
这其中没有其他个人性的行为或举动。
There isn't any other personal act actions to it.
这让我的祷告更有滋味。
That spices up my prayer.
有时我会在读圣经前祷告，有时在读后祷告。
Sometimes I pray before I read the Bible and pray afterwards.
有时我只是在神面前安静地坐着，没有任何目的或意图。
Sometimes I'll just spend time being quiet before God, and I have no agenda, no intention.
关于圣经学习，你可以选择圣经中的人物。
As far as bible study, you can pick characters of the bible.
你可以选择圣经中的书卷。
You can take books of the bible.
我有时会使用沙弗的52个主要圣经主题。
One thing I do sometimes is I'll take Schaeffer's 52 major bible themes.
那本书有52章。
It's it's 52 chapters in that that book.
我会每周学习一章，整周都默想这一章，逐步深入体会。
I'll do a chapter a week, and I'll just meditate on that chapter for the whole week, and I'll just walk through that.
有时，与其祷告，我可能会与某人进行属灵的对话，讨论神的事、某个主题、某节经文或某个想法。
Sometimes in lieu of a prayer, I may have a spiritual conversation with someone, and we talk about the things of God, a topic, a verse, a thought.
这是亲近神的不同方式，不同的方式亲近神。
Just different ways to to approach God, different ways to approach God.
当我感到枯竭时，我会找一些我能分辨出属灵状态的人在一起。
And when I feel really stale, I get around people that I discern or not.
听你说的。
Listen what you said.
你就跟那些不属神的人在一起。
You just get around people that are not.
比如对我而言，我生命的救赎就是与加里·格林沃尔德牧师在一起。
Like, for me, the salvation for my life is getting around pastor Gary Grinwald.
只要和他在一起，一切都会改变。
I get around him and everything changes.
或者多与那些对神充满热情、能激励你的基督信徒在一起。
Or get around believers of of Christ that are on fire for God or encourage you.
亲近神。
Draw near.
希伯来书10章22节说：要带着对神本性的十足信心亲近祂，而不是基于你自己的身份。
Hebrews ten twenty two, draw near with the full assurance of faith in who God is, not in who you are.
但我并不赞成轻易放弃任何属灵操练，除非它不是出于神；如果不是出于神，我才不会因为从中得不到以往的收获就把它搁置。
But I'm not such a fan of abandoning any spiritual habit, unless it's not of God, then I would I don't wanna shelve it because I'm not getting from it what I used to put in it.
借用一个营销术语，存在一个收益递减的边际，比如你做某件事，做得越多，从中获得的益处就越少。
To borrow a marketing term, there's a margin of diminishing returns, like you do something, and the more you do it, the less benefit you derive from it.
但在属灵的事情上，情况并非如此。
But that is not the case when it comes to spiritual things.
在属灵的事上，你可能会获得不同的益处，也许不是同样的益处。
In spiritual things, you may get a different benefit, maybe not the same benefit.
这又回到了‘新鲜感’这个词。
That goes to that word freshness again.
所以，我想说的是，不要放弃任何事。
So I I would the word I would say is don't abandon anything.
我会说，要富有创意。
I I would anything, I would say, be creative.
我们有圣灵，就是创造的灵。
We have the holy spirit, spirit of creation.
你可以富有创意。
You can be creative.
你可能会改变它。
You might change it.
我记得多年前，我经常做早上的学习。
I remember years ago, I used to do a lot of early morning study.
现在我做深夜学习。
Now I do late night study.
你可能会调整时间。
You might you might move the time.
不要改变自律。
Don't change the discipline.
调整时间。
Move the time.
增加创造力。
Add create creativity.
增加多样性。
Add variety.
与其他信徒交流。
Talk to other believers.
我喜欢听其他信徒如何寻求主。
I love to hear how other believers seek the Lord.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，我会去散步祷告，或者嗯。
Well, I take prayer walks or Mhmm.
我参加祷告会，或者听——今天我刚和一个人聊过，我会听C.S.刘易斯的旧讲道，大约二十分钟一段。
I I I join prayer meetings or I listen to I was just talking to somebody today that, I listen to CS Lewis' old messages, like twenty minute blur out.
这些都是激发属灵生命的不同的方式。
The just different ways to stimulate spiritual life.
你不是在强迫自己。
You are not forcing it.
你不是在人为制造。
You're not manufacturing it.
你是在激发它。
You're stimulating it.
你是在激发神的心意和神的生命在你里面，你正在培育属灵的生命。
You're stimulating the mind of God and the life of God in your life, And you're cultivating you're cultivating spiritual life.
你不是在制造它，而是在向自己死，取用神的心意、神的爱和神的话语，让这些事滋养你。
You're not producing it, but you're dying to yourself and you're taking up God's mind and God's love and God's word and letting those things feed you.
你生命中喂养什么，什么就会成长。
And what you feed in your life will grow.
是的。
Yeah.
现在我想说，当我们谈论人们忽视常规时，嗯。
Now I wanna say, you know, when we talk about people like dismissing routine Mhmm.
以及以赛亚书28章中的属灵操练，嗯。
And spiritual practices in Isaiah 28 Mhmm.
我们读这段经文时，有时会把它从上下文中抽离出来，其中提到‘律上加律，令上加令，这里一点，那里一点’。
We read that passage and sometimes we yank it out of context where it says line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.
那段话的背景是一些人正在嘲笑先知。
The context of that is some people were mocking the prophet.
你所拥有的只是线上加线，诫上加诫。
All you got is line upon line, precept upon precept.
先知不得不回应那些嘲笑他的人。
And the prophet had to answer the guys who were mocking him.
其实，生命正是从线上加线、诫上加诫开始的。
Well, that's really where life starts with the line upon line and the precept upon precept.
就像这里一点，那里一点。
It's like, here a little, there a little.
线上加线是一种良好的操练。
That's line upon line is like a good practice.
诫上加诫也是一种良好的操练。
Precept upon precept is a good practice.
就像你所说的，这里一点，那里一点，然后现在，早晨、晚上、傍晚，诸如此类的时间。
And then like you said, here a little, there a little, then and then now, morning, night, evening, those kinds of things.
所有这些事情，你知道，我想我们想表达的是，任何常规都可能变成死板的套路。
All of those things are, you know, I guess what we're trying to say is like any routine could become a rut.
但若完全摒弃那种逐句逐条、反复默想上帝话语的操练，也会让你陷入不知如何思考的境地。
But a dismissal of a line upon line, precept upon precept kind of meditation on the Word of God also could get you to the place where you're just you're not really knowing how to think.
因为当我们谈到思维框架时，我想的是思维的边界线。
Because I think frame of reference when we talk about a frame of reference, we're thinking of like, you know, boundary lines for thinking.
我们希望与上帝一同思考，明白这些界限和准则，从旧约中认识它们，并在新约中看到它们的印证与成全。
Like we want to think with God and we want to know those lines and we want to know those precepts and we want to know them from the Old Testament and we wanna know their confirmation and their, consummation in the New Testament.
对吧？
Right?
所以就是这样。
So there we go.
我也想说一点。
I I also wanna say this too.
让我们重新定义‘活着’这个词，因为有些人以为‘得生命’只是一种属灵的表达方式。
Let's redefine the word alive Because sometimes people think being made alive, it means that it's some kind of some kind of spiritual language.
我得用天使的语言说话。
I've gotta speak in an angel's language.
必须有一些明显的表现。
There's gotta be some demonstrative performance.
嘿。
Hey.
她她活过来了。
She She's alive.
看看她。
Look at her.
不。
No.
那不是活过来。
That's not alive.
我的意思是，别把强烈的情感误认为是亲密的关系。
I mean, don't confuse intensity with intimacy.
别搞混了。
Don't confuse it.
是的。
Yep.
别仅仅因为有人说，是的。
Don't be just because someone's like, yeah.
改变我们的改变我们的改变。
Change our change our change.
当你轻声说出上帝的名字时，这并不会让你比他们更神圣。
That does not make them any more holier than you when you whisper God's name.
对吧？
Right?
《彼得前书》和《列王纪上》19章12节，那微小的声音震动了以利亚。
First Peter first Kings nineteen twelve, the still small voice shook Elijah.
它震动了他。
It shook him.
是的。
Yeah.
他不在地震中。
He wasn't in the earthquake.
他不在火中，也不在风中。
He wasn't in the fire, and he wasn't in the wind.
是那微小的声音抓住了他，说：嘿。
It was the still small voice that grabbed him and said, hey.
你在做什么？
What are you doing?
所以要小心强度，或任何一种情感上的强烈，即使你被情绪打动，而情绪本身是健康的。
So be careful with intensity or any kind of emotional intensity, even though you are moved by your emotions and emotions are healthy.
我们被教导要使用旗犬。
Use flag dogs we've been taught.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
情绪是健康的，但情绪需要由属灵的心志来引导。
Emotions are healthy, but with the emotions are guided by a spiritual mind.
所以，好吧，我想要与神建立关系，但我不想效法加拉太书六章十二节中那种只在肉体中做表面功夫的行为。
So, okay, I wanna I wanna have relationship with God, but I don't wanna put Galatians six twelve, a fair show in the flesh.
我不希望在我的个人属灵生活中出现某种属灵的马戏团，因为祂是属灵的生命。
I don't want some spiritual circus in my personal walk with God because he's spiritually alive.
是的。
Yeah.
祂是属灵的生命，而我却有各种烟幕、灯光和这些纷繁的外在事物。
He's spiritually alive, and I have a smoke screens and lights and all these things are coming.
神说：‘只是我。’
And God's like, it's just me.
亲密关系，说实话，亲密往往比喧闹更安静。
Intimacy, to be honest with you, intimacy is often a quiet is often more quiet than it is loud.
它更多是看不见的，而不是看得见的。
It's more unseen than it is seen.
是的。
Yeah.
它远比公开的更私密。
It's much more personal than it is than it is public.
基督在谈到你与上帝在私下、在密室中的关系时，也提到过这一点。
Christ talks about that when he talks about your relationship with God in private, in your closet life.
但要小心，不要因为觉得自己不够属灵、没有足够外在表现，就感到内疚、折磨自己或自我钉十字架。
But be careful what you don't you don't feel bad and kill yourself or crucify yourself because you think that I'm not I'm not spiritually alive because I'm not doing enough demonstratively.
我不是在大喊大叫，也没有在敬拜中表现得夸张。
I'm not I'm not yelling and doing the worship service.
我没有过度激动、情绪高涨。
I'm not all inanimate amped up.
我没有被过度煽动。
I'm not all hyped up.
所有的铃铛和口哨声。
All the all this all the the bells and whistles.
看我。
Look at me.
看我。
Look at me.
我为上帝充满热情。
I'm on fire for God.
你也可以为安静而充满热情。
You can be on fire for quiet.
那可以是一种缓慢而安静的燃烧。
It can be a slow, quiet burn.
这很酷。
That's cool.
是的。
Yeah.
我听说有人说过，动力是混乱的，这还挺有意思的。
I heard someone say this, momentum is messy, which is kind of interesting.
是的。
Yeah.
就像，你知道的，你在说的那个。
Like, you know, like you're talking about that.
那种情感上的，嗯。
The the emotional, like Mhmm.
你知道的，我们看到一些死气沉沉的东西，就会想要去激发动力。
The you know, we think of, like, you know, we we see something dead and we need to try to stimulate momentum.
对。
Yes.
但要小心这一点，因为有时候动力一旦释放，就像放出了马厩的马，它会狂奔不止，类似这种情况。
And then but be careful with that because sometimes momentum can be you let the horse out of the barn and the horse is running wild, that kind of thing.
就像，我觉得我们在这里努力保持平衡，我很喜欢你所说的。
It's like and I I I think, you know, we're trying to be very balanced here, and I love what you're saying.
比如，亲密关系可能是一种缓慢而安静的燃烧。
Like, intimacy can be a a slow, quiet burn.
你知道，有些人已经结婚多年了。
You know, people have been married for years.
这是一系列缓慢而简单的决定，很多只是静静地坐在餐桌旁一起吃早餐，没有太多花里胡哨的东西，诸如此类。
It's, you know, it's been a lot of slow, simple decisions, a lot of a lot of just sitting quietly at the breakfast table with each other, not a lot of like, you know, bells and whistles, all those kinds of things.
哦，深刻的见解。
Oh, deep thought.
我们曾经进行过一场关于‘不’的严肃对话。
Like, we had a very serious conversation about a no.
也许那只是某一天的早餐时光。
It might have just been one day of breakfast.
我们只是决定，这就是我们的教堂。
We just decided this is our church.
就这样。
That's it.
或者，我觉得有时候我们还倾向于在视觉上把自己和别人比较，然后问自己：为什么我不像他们那样？
Or, like, I think sometimes too, we have a tendency to compare ourselves visually with other people, and we have to say, well, why can't I be like them?
他们对上帝充满热情。
They're on fire for God.
首先，你不是他们。
You're not them, number one.
对上帝的热情并不是靠外在表现来衡量的。
The fire for God is not measured, demonstratively.
比如你读提摩太后书1章6节，经文说：要挑旺你里面那火焰，就像重新点燃火一样。
Like you you read second Timothy one six, it says, stir up the fire that's within you, and as a verrazzo, make fire again.
当你读到这节经文时，你会想：好吧。
When you read that verse, you're thinking, okay.
我要激动起来。
I'm gonna get excited.
我要在2026年立下新年决心，对上帝充满热情。
I'm gonna have a New Year's resolution be on fire for God in 2026.
是的。
Yes.
我要背着十字架跑过主街中央，把圣经扔给愿意接受的人，但那可能根本就不是上帝。
I'm gonna run down the middle of Main Street with the cross on my back and throw in Bibles at whoever will take them and make that that may not be God at all.
那可能只是你自己的行为。
That may be all you.
你想要属灵，但别忘了，属灵的生命是上帝的工作。
You wanna be spiritually don't forget to be spiritually alive is a work of God.
这是对肉体的顺服。
It's a submission of the flesh.
这实际上是上帝恩典在你生命中工作的结果。
It is actually the result of the work of grace in your life.
它可能对任何人都不可见。
It may not be visible to anyone.
顺便说一句，你是最不适合评判自己是否为上帝而活的人。
And by the way, you are the worst evaluator of whether you're alive for God.
是的。
Yeah.
你只是被赋予了生命，要小心，不要用自己的标准来评判什么是真正的生命。
You you just to be made alive, be careful that you're not evaluating what it means to be alive.
让上帝来定义它。
Let God define that.
这些都是属灵的事。
These are spiritual things.
这些是《以弗所书》2章1节和《罗马书》8章11节中的属灵话语。
These are spiritual words in Ephesians two:one and Romans eight eleven.
这些是上帝为我们定义的话语。
These are words that God defines for us.
若你被属灵地爱着，你的生活可能并没有太大改变。
To be spiritually loved, your life might not be a whole lot different.
你可能依然从事同样的工作。
You may have the same job.
你可能有着同样的配偶，希望如此。
You may have the same spouse, hopefully.
你可能有着同样的孩子。
You may have the same kids.
你可能住着同样的房子。
You may have the same house.
你生活的许多方面可能都没变，但你里面，外在的人正在衰残，内在的人却日日更新。
A lot of your life may be the same, but inside of you, your outer man is perishing, but your inner man is being renewed day by day.
在你里面，神正在做工。
Inside of you, God is doing a work.
在你里面，神正在更新你的心思。
Inside of you, God is renewing your mind.
在你里面，神正在将你石心变为神的心。
Inside of you, God is taking your stony heart and making it a heart of God.
在你里面，神正在唤醒你对属神之事的敏感，并赐给你属灵的专注力。
Inside of you, God is quickening you to the things of God and giving you spiritual concentration.
属灵生命的一个标志，就是对神的事物有一种属灵的专注或觉察。
And that's the mark of being spiritually alive is that there's a sense of spiritual concentration or awareness to the things of God.
这其实是一个很好的衡量标准。
That's a great barometer actually.
别管其他任何事情是否改变。
Never mind anything else changing.
我并没有大喊大叫，但也许我在分辨神的同在和神的事物上成长了，我开始关心神所关心的事。
I'm not screaming or yelling, but maybe I have I grew in my discernment of the presence of God and the things of God, and I care about the things that God cares about.
是的，确实如此。
Yeah, that's true.
对。
Yeah.
当我们接近今天的尾声时，我认为我们已经得出了几个结论。
Well, as we draw near to our close here, I think what we've we've come to a couple of conclusions.
我们已被赋予了生命。
We are made alive.
我们不是试图让自己活过来。
We don't try to make ourselves alive.
我们让神通过祂的圣灵使我们苏醒。
We allow God to quicken us by His Holy Spirit.
祂满有怜悯，正如我们本周一直所查考的经文所示。
He's rich in mercy to go to the passage that we're looking at all this week.
我们得救是本乎恩典，祂使我们与基督一同复活，也许我们最终该落脚在这里：我们与基督一同复活了。
It's by grace that we were saved and He raised up us and we maybe that's where we should land is like we were raised up together with Christ.
我们知道，你看，我正在看一些这里的评论。
And we know that, you know, I'm looking at some of the comments here.
是的，你们中有些人无法外出。
Yes, some of you can't get out.
你知道，你无法参加当地的聚会，诸如此类的事情。
You know, you can't get to a local assembly, those kind of things.
神能在那样的地方拜访你吗？
Can God visit you there?
当然。
Absolutely.
你知道，耶稣在挑选十二门徒之前，曾退到旷野独自祷告。
You know that Jesus retired to be by himself before he chose the 12 disciples.
那时有一种团契存在。
So there was a fellowship there.
这种团契是可能发生的。
There's a fellowship that can happen.
我们熟知教会历史中许多神的仆人和神的仆妇，他们把自己置身于一个地方，让神能直接、安静地对他们说话。
And we know many stories throughout church history of men of God and women of God who got themselves in a place where God could speak to them directly, quietly.
保罗自己在前往阿拉伯旷野时，得到了神的显现，领受了可以分享的启示。
Paul himself in his when he went into the wilderness, the Desert Of Arabia, he got something, he got a visitation of God and, you know, revelations that he could share.
所以我们知道，这一切都是因着恩典，藉着信心。
So we know that that's, you know, all of this is by grace through faith.
这是神的恩赐。
It's the gift of God.
这不是我们能够制造出来的东西。
It's not something that we can manufacture.
我认为这就是为什么我们要非常平衡地表达，不声称存在某种让你自己活过来的公式。
And I think that's why we're trying to be very balanced in not saying that there is a formula for you to make yourself alive.
这不是其中任何一种。
It's not one of these.
这不是你在电视上看到的那些东西。
It's not any of those kinds of things that you see on TV.
只要告诉你的医生，然后打一针就行。
Just tell your doctor about it and you'll get a shot.
一切都会好起来的。
Everything will be well.
我们没有这种东西。
We don't have that.
抱歉。
Sorry.
是的
Yeah.
我刚才说的是某种未知的语言吗？
I don't did I just speak in an unknown language?
我不知道。
I don't know.
好吧，你可是第一个听到这个的。
Well, you heard it here first.
第一个听到这个的。
Heard it here first.
Notice在说方言。
Notice speaks in tongues.
总之
Anyway
最后的想法。
Final thoughts.
那是一个最后的想法。
That was a final thought.
我得赶紧离开这儿。
I gotta get out of here.
这会成为一个迷因。
That'll be a meme.
好的。
Okay.
最后的想法。
Final thoughts.
我想说，尽你所能。
I wanna say, best you can.
靠近身体。
Draw near to the body.
这是你得到鼓励的方式之一，让你在祂的身体里被神唤醒。
It's one of the ways that you get encouraged, and you allow God to make you alive within his body.
我们感恩有在线的资源，让人们也能加入我们，同时我们也有这个播客。
We're thankful for the provisions that we have online that folks can join us as well as while we have this podcast.
但我只是想鼓励你，别想太多。
But I just want to encourage you, don't overthink it.
是的。
Yeah.
别苛责自己。
Don't judge yourself.
当你开始用世俗的眼光来评估你与神的关系时，要小心。
Be careful when you start evaluating your walk with God through natural eyes.
如果圣灵在约翰福音16章中让你知罪，那么使你意识到你与神关系的同一位圣灵，也渴望引导你活出与神同行的生命。
If the Holy Spirit convicts you in John 16, let the same spirit that convicts you about your life with God is the same spirit who wants to lead you in your life with God.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果祂要引导你，如果需要调整或改变，就让祂来带领你。
And if he's gonna lead you, if there needs to be alterations or changes, let him lead you in it.
别把这变成一个你自己动手的家得宝式自我提升计划。
Don't make this a do it yourself Home Depot self improvement program.
我不是每年都这样。
I'm not every year.
我只是想要一个新年。
I wanna just have a new year.
不。
No.
我想和圣灵共度一年。
I wanna have a year with the Holy Spirit.
他怎么开船，我就怎么跟着走。
However he drives his boat is how I'm gonna go.
所以，这就是我今天早上想鼓励你们的。
So So that's what I would encourage you for this morning.
这太奇妙了。
It's amazing.
是的。
Yep.
是的。
Yep.
对。
Yeah.
所以朋友们，我们已经谈过如何重获生机。
So friends, we've talked about coming alive.
我们希望以某种方式帮助了你们重获生机。
We hope that we've helped you in some way to come alive.
如果你感到麻木，我们只是鼓励你留意神的话语，让圣灵和基督的身体在各方面鼓励你。
If you're feeling dead, we just encourage you to take heed to the word of God, let the Holy Spirit and let the body of Christ really encourage you in all things.
因此，我们想感谢你再次参与本周二的《恩典时刻》节目。
So we just want to thank you for being a part of the Grace Hour show again on this Tuesday.
我们还想提醒你，你可以在多个平台订阅《恩典时刻》节目。
And we want to remind you that you can subscribe to the Grace Hour show on several platforms.
Spotify是其中一个平台，还有Apple和YouTube。
Spotify is one of them, Apple, YouTube.
你可以订阅，并在我们每次推出新节目时收到提醒。
You can subscribe and have a reminder sent to you every time that we're coming on with a new program.
所以这一周我们将持续讨论以弗所书中的这段经文。
So we'll be talking about this passage in Ephesians all week.
我要感谢拉蒙多·布朗牧师与我一同主持。
I want to thank pastor Ronaldo Brown for being with me.
我是史蒂夫·万德罗诺斯牧师。
I'm pastor Steve Vandrolonis.
一如既往，感谢耶胡·万迪弗让我们能够持续进行下去。
And as always, Jehu Vandiver, thank you so much for keeping us going.
大家祝你们今天愉快。
Have a great day, everyone.
上帝保佑。
God bless.
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