Ep.644 | Discovering God’s Will: Obedience – Participating In God’s Plan

五周了。

Five weeks.

欢迎收听恩典时刻节目，各位。

Welcome to the Grace Hour show, everyone.

这是一个基督教播客。

This is a Christian podcast.

你们刚刚在那一刻捕捉到了我们。

You just caught us in a moment maybe there.

谢谢，耶户。

Thanks, Jehu.

把这个播出去。

Put that on the air.

是的。

Yeah.

我们现在从巴尔的摩的丰盛恩典教会为您现场直播。

We're coming to you live from, Greater Grace Church in Baltimore.

我是牧师史蒂夫·安德鲁诺尼斯，这里是巴尔的摩教会的牧师之一，这是一个富有成果的事工。

I'm pastor Steve Andrulonis, one of the pastors here at the church ministry in Baltimore, fruitful ministry.

我们刚刚度过了复活节季节。

We've just gotten through the Easter season.

和我在一起的是汤姆·沙勒牧师，我们教会的牧师，也是我们在巴尔的摩教会的领袖。

And with me, Pastor Tom Schaller, the pastor of our church, leader of our church here in Baltimore.

我们在这个播客里讨论各种话题。

And we talk about things here on this podcast.

我们希望你们能了解上帝正试图向我们传达的信息和作为。

We want you to learn about what God is trying to do and say to us.

所以今天我们谈论的主题，也许你会对顺服感到困惑。

So we are talking about a subject that maybe, you know, you might be confused about obedience.

你知道，这周我们一直在节目中探讨如何发现上帝的旨意，上帝对我们生命的旨意是什么。

You know, that's this week, we've been talking about discovering God's will on the program, how that happens, what is the will of God for our lives.

我认为已经有很多人写过关于这个主题的书了。

I think people lots of books have been written about it.

人们想知道。

People want to know.

我认为他们试图寻找一种秘密配方，一种能让他们生活变得如愿以偿的‘秘方’。

I think they're trying to find the secret formula for the secret sauce that they can put in their life and their life would be as they would want it to be.

但顺服是一个重要的主题，而且它很早就出现了，因为在创世记第二章，主就吩咐了那人。

But obedience is a big topic and it came early because in Genesis two, the Lord commanded the man.

所以他吩咐那人几件事：要繁衍、增多，并耕种他所安置的园子。

So he commanded the man a couple of things, fruitful, multiply, and cultivate the garden that he had been set in.

因此，那人有工作要做。

So the man had work to do.

他要与赐给他的女人建立关系并加以培育，也要遵从命令繁衍后代，使全地充满人。

He had a relationship with the woman given to him to nurture, and he had a command to be fruitful and produce children that would fill the earth.

那是最初的指示。

And, that was, you know, the first, instruction.

而唯一的禁令是：看，那边有一棵树，就是分别善恶的树。

And the one prohibition, you know, was that here's a tree over here, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

你知道，如果你吃了那棵树的果子，你就会死。

You know, if you eat that tree, you're gonna die.

这就像只是告诉你，别吃它，你就不会死。

It's like just just just just letting you know, don't eat of it and you won't die.

但我们都知道结果如何。

But we know the the outcome of that.

对吧，牧师？

Right, pastor?

结果就是那果子被吃了，而我们如今活在必死的身体里，你知道，头发会变白。

The outcome was that it was eaten of and the fact that we are in bodies of death, you know, our hair grows gray.

你之前提到过，我想是昨天或者前天在谈话会上，你读了《传道书》最后一章，讲到那些事，比如再也听不到唱歌的女子了。

And you were talking, I think, was it yesterday or the other day at the rap session, you were reading that last chapter of Ecclesiastes and going through all that, like, you can't hear singing girls anymore.

你的关节不好了。

Your joints are bad.

你的眼睛模糊了。

Your eyes are dim.

你对女人再也没有欲望了。

You have no desire for women anymore.

所有这些事情的发生，都是因为违背了上帝在伊甸园里赐予的那一条命令。

All of that stuff happens because of, you know, simple disobedience to the one command that they were given in the garden.

所以，总之，谢谢你们，亚当和夏娃。

So anyway, thank you, Adam and Eve.

总之。

Anyway.

是的。

Yeah.

如果在伊甸园里顺服，我们的生活就会大不相同。

Obedience in the Garden of Eden and life would have been a lot different.

我们的外体正在衰残。

Our outer man perishes.

我们因罪而死，身体朽坏，对吧？

We die, our bodies fall apart because of sin, right?

是的。

Yeah.

因此，悖逆带来了咒诅，我们活在其中，时时处处都能看到它。

And so the disobedience brought a curse and we live in that and see it around us all the time.

但心中仍有呼求，有对永恒和更美好世界的叹息，这也在图景之中。

But then there is that cry in the heart, this groaning for the eternal and for a better world and that's also in the picture.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

你昨晚在讲道时，谈到了圣灵，以及圣灵如何帮助我们持守那些——就像你提到的那段有趣的经文。

Now you were preaching last night and you were talking about the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and the nature of the Spirit helping us in what we're doing so that we hold fast to those, you know, like you talked from this, you know, interesting passage.

我想我们可以转向那段经文，列王纪下那段有趣的经文，就是关于那次入侵和重新安置之后的情况。

I think we could go to that passage, The second Kings passage, the interesting passage that, you know, after there was this invasion and resettlement, really.

这似乎是人类历史上帝国更迭的一种模式。

This is like a seems to be a pattern of empires over the course of human history.

就像你征服一个民族后，为了分化他们，防止他们联合成一股有组织的力量，他们会被人迁移到不同的地方。

Like you conquer a people and in order and in order to sort of divide them so that they can organize and become a a force of a force that works together, they are, you know, they are resettled to different places.

你可能比我读过更多这方面的内容。

You probably have read more on this than I have.

你对战争历史之类的特别感兴趣。

You like a war history and everything like that.

但据我了解，纳粹政权曾计划将荷兰人迁移到东欧的某个地方。

But I from what I understand, there was a plan in the Nazi regime to resettle Hollanders, people from The Netherlands to some place in Eastern Europe.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

然后你知道，只是大致上

Then re know, just sort of

人们去是的。

people to Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

只是为了让他们失去平衡。

Just to get them sort of off balance.

亚述人就是这么做的。

And this is what happened with Assyria.

他们把来自北方王国的十个部落掳走，重新安置到中亚，我想，一直延伸到波斯，也就是现在的伊朗。

They took the 10 tribes that were from that northern kingdom, and they repopulated, they resettled them all up in East in Central Asia, I think, and all the way down into what was Persia and what's now Iran, obviously.

当他们把不属于以色列的人带到应许之地时，狮子就多了起来，他们也不认识当地的神。

So but like when they brought people that were not of that were not of Israel to the promised land, then, you know, the lions populated and they didn't know the god of the land.

土地在上帝对这个世界计划中的动态里，似乎仍然非常重要，对吧？

It's like the land is like still a pretty important part of the dynamic of what God wants to do with this world, right?

在《列王纪下》17章25节。

It's in two Kings seventeen twenty five.

对。

Yeah.

他们在刚定居那里时并不敬畏耶和华，因此耶和华使狮子进入他们中间，咬死了几个人。

So it was at the beginning of their dwelling there that they feared not the Lord, therefore the Lord sent lions among them which slew some of them.

这记载在《申命记》7章22节，当人们不顺从神时，神应许狮子的数量会增加，并因他们的悖逆而降下审判。

This is in Deuteronomy, the Lord promised in its seven twenty two when the people were not obeying God, the lion population increased and there was a judgment on the people because of that.

如今，外族人迁入这片土地，却遭到狮子袭击，他们意识到这背后有属灵的原因，必须认识这片土地的神。

So now the foreigners have moved into the land and now they're getting eaten by lions and they recognize that there's a spiritual reason behind this and we need to learn about the God of the land.

我们昨晚说过，得翻翻手册，看看这片土地的神对此怎么说。

And we said last night that like we gotta look it up in the manual, you know, why, who is the God of the land have to say about this?

但经文说，他们并不敬畏神。

So they but it said they did not fear God.

他们只是出于迷信，愿意妥协，就像我们可能会迷信，比如不从梯子下走过、避开黑猫、避开人行道裂缝这类事情。

But they were like willing to accommodate like almost by superstition, you know, like how we can be superstitious and we can obey the like don't walk under a ladder or something about a black cat and crack in the sidewalk and these kind of things.

就像在篮球比赛中带着兔子脚。

But a rabbit foot in a basketball game.

你可以遵守这些迷信，但这并不意味着你在顺从神。

Like you can obey those things, but it doesn't mean that you're obeying God.

不。

No.

我认为，我们可能觉得顺从并不是强制的。

I think maybe we think of obedience, it's not enforced.

它是一种选择。

It's an option.

就像你在前面提到的《申命记》那样。

It's like in Deuteronomy, you mentioned Deuteronomy there.

他们违背了。

They disobeyed.

于是后来狮子数量增多，上帝说：我将生命与死亡摆在你们面前。

And so the lion population later on, God said, I put before you two ideas, one of life and one of death.

如果你选择生命之路，事情就会如此发展。

If you choose the way of life, then things will be this way.

如果你选择死亡之路，就会敞开自己，承受其后果。

If you choose the way of death, then you open yourself up to the consequences of that.

你知道的。

You know?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

就像《民数记》里的故事，人们抱怨、发牢骚，于是蛇被放了出来。

And, you know, just like in the story in Numbers, the people grumbled, they murmured, The snakes were let loose.

这是另一种野生动物，咬人，你知道的，有毒，你知道的，致命的。

That's another wild animal, biting people and, you know, poisonous, you know, deadly.

然后只有一条规矩。

And then there's one one rule.

你要做一条铜蛇，把它挂在杆子上，举起来。

There's a, you know, make a serpent of brass, put it on a pole, lift it up.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

所以这就是指示。

So here's the instruction.

你知道，是否将这个指示应用到你的生活中，取决于你自己。

You know, it's up to you to apply that instruction to your life.

如果你仰望那条蛇，你就得医治。

If you look to the serpent, you're healed.

对吧？

Right?

在逾越节，也就是所有灾祸的顶点，顺服并不是被强制要求的。

And in the Passover, the culmination of all the plagues, the obedience was not mandated.

它并不是像被强迫那样执行的。

It wasn't, like, enforced.

并不是拿枪指着你说：‘你必须这么做。’

It wasn't, like, at gunpoint, do this.

就像你知道的，世界各地受迫害的人，要么拒绝基督，要么死去，你知道，自从基督教出现以来，这种事在历史上一直发生。

Like, you know, people who are persecuted in throughout the world reject Christ or die, you know, and that that's happened to people throughout the ages since Christianity came on the scene.

但在逾越节的时候，其实是有选择的。

But, you know, there's an option there at the Passover.

你可以把血涂在门框上，进到屋里，从而免于死亡，也可以赌一把，这么说吧。

You could put the blood on your doorposts and go into the room and be saved from death, or you could take your chances, so to speak.

我认为，当我们谈论顺服时，关键就在这里：上帝赐下了某些诫命、律例和典章。

And that's really, I think, the thing when we're talking about obedience, you know, really God has given certain commands, precepts, statutes.

这些规定都是生活方式。

These things are ways of living.

他说，我按照自己的形象造了你。

And he's saying, you know, I made you in your image.

你有能力思考、推理，这也是你的选择。

You have an ability to reason and and rationalize and, you know, it's your choice.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，我认为你想要表达的是，主希望吸引我们归向祂。因此，可能存在一种机械式的顺服，这种顺服没有真心，就像在军队里，你服从长官，但你内心真的认同吗？

So, what you're saying I think is the Lord wants to draw us to His So, there can be like a mechanical obedience which would be without heart, like in the military, you obey your officer, but do you have a heart for it?

不一定。

Not necessarily.

你向他敬礼，但内心并不真正敬重他。

You salute him, but in your heart you don't, not wish him.

所以主对我们说：你们是按我的形象造的，我了解你们的心，知道你们的动机，我所要的是发自爱的顺服。

So, what the Lord is saying to us that you're made in my image, I know your heart, I know what your motivation is, and I want obedience on that level out of love.

就像我渴望一段关系，你知道的。

Like I want a relationship, you know.

这两种顺服之间确实存在区别。

So there is a distinction between those two obediences, you could say.

一种是出于义务，是基于律法的，好吧，你照做就是了。

One is you know, obligatory and it is by law and okay, you can do it.

这已经很好了。

And that's very good.

我的意思是，我们并不是在贬低或轻视那种行为，但我们更关注耶稣事工和教导中所体现的。

I mean, we're not decrying that or demeaning it, but we are like more interested as we see in Jesus' ministry and in His teaching.

我要你的心。

I want your heart.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，那些人试图安抚他们土地上的神明，就像对待偶像一样。

You know, the manner of the god of the land that these people were trying to placate like you do with idols.

你知道，他们的想法是想要赢得好处。

You know, the idea is you're trying to win.

比如，如果我向这个偶像付出这样的顺服，我就能得到我想要的。

Like, if I pay this, if I pay this measure of obedience to this idol, then I will get what I want.

所以这更像是一种交易。

So it's sort of more of a transaction.

但你昨晚在讲道中提到，从那段经文来看，那些人并不明白对主的敬畏。

But you were saying in the message last night and from that passage that the people did not understand the fear of the Lord.

他们并没有与他建立关系。

They didn't enter into a relationship with him.

他们没有真正体会到祂是谁。

They didn't have a awesome sense of who he is.

我觉得就是这样。

That's the way I think.

当我们谈论对主的敬畏时，我们并不是指那种因害怕上帝会惩罚我们而带来的恐惧。

When we talk about the fear of the Lord, we're not talking about the fear that brings us tormented that God's going to strike us down.

但上帝想要启动的，以及祂最初想要对亚当和夏娃启动的是：我告诉你一件事，只要你信靠我、爱我，你就出于爱来做这些，因为我爱你。

But what God is trying to initiate and what he tried to initiate with the first man and the woman is, I'm telling you something, if you just believe me and love me, you know, do this out of love because I I love you.

我告诉你关于这棵树，是因为我爱你。

I'm telling you about this tree because I love you.

如果你仅仅因为爱我而顺从我，那么这就像一种尊荣、一种伟大、一种亲密，这正是上帝试图带给那些来到祂土地上的人的。

And if you just obey me because you love me, then, you know, that's like sort of an honor and an awesomeness and an intimacy that God was even trying to bring to these people who had come to his land.

如果他们能敬畏主的话。

Like, if they would fear the Lord.

那位被派去的祭司知道他在说什么吗？

Did this priest know did the priest who was sent there know what he was talking about?

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

因为显然，他虽然有事工，但那并不是让人敬拜天上的神的事工。

Because I mean, apparently, had a ministry, but it wasn't a ministry that got people to worship the God of heaven.

你知道的，他们只是把它加进去了，你当时在努力弄清楚那个词到底是什么。

It was, you know, they just added it to it's what you were trying to figure out what the word was.

他们把它加进了自己的收藏品里。

They added it to it's their collection.

他们有啊，不过是另一个神罢了。

They have, oh, it's just another God.

我们就把他放在架子上，和我们其他的神放在一起吧。

We'll put him just on the shelf with all our other gods.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，我认为尼布甲尼撒最初以为上帝只是另一个神。

This is, you know, and, you know, I think Nebuchadnezzar originally thought God was just another.

你知道，他可能是个大神，也许比其他所有神都大，但他没意识到但以理、沙得拉、米煞、亚伯尼歌的上帝，究竟比他本国的神高出多少，后来他明白了。

You know, he was a big God, maybe bigger than all the other gods, but he didn't realize just how the God of Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, just how much higher he was than the God that was in his land, you know, and he learned that.

你知道，这真是个有趣的故事。

You know, it's kind of interesting story.

今天早上我读到这段，就是但以理书第四章，他做了一个梦，然后但以理对尼布甲尼撒说：我得告诉你，如果你认识上帝是谁，以谦卑的心事奉祂，关怀穷人，秉行公义，与上帝谦卑同行，事情就会好转。

I was reading it this morning, just, you know, Daniel four, he has a dream and, you know, and Daniel says, I got to tell you, Nebuchadnezzar, that if you recognize who God is and you serve Him in humility and you care for the needy and you do justice and walk humbly with God, then things will be okay.

但如果你活在骄傲中，你就必受管教，直到你真正认识上帝是谁。

But if you live in pride, then you're going to be disciplined till you recognize who God really is.

所以，我的意思是，这真是一个异教君王的故事，一个残暴的君王，某种程度上是个杀人如麻的君王，一个骄傲的君王，你看得出来。

And so, I mean, this is really the, you know, here's an heathen king, a brutal king from all a murderous king in some ways, a prideful king, you know, we see.

但最终，他在第四章结尾，真的赞美了主，你知道的。

But then he winds up, you know, really praising the Lord at the end of chapter four, you know.

尼布甲尼撒赞美主

Nebuchadnezzar praises the Lord,

你知道的。

you know.

是的。

Yeah.

他看起来真的成了信徒。

He looks like he became a believer.

是的，真的。

Yeah, really.

我的意思是，他原本是个彻头彻尾的异教徒，暴虐专横，但最终被降卑了。

I mean, he was straight up pagan, I mean, tyrannical, but he was humbled.

这个故事向我们展示了上帝的作为。

I mean, that's a story to show us how God works.

祂将一位骄傲的异教君王、一个只拜偶像的外邦人，降卑了。

And he takes a proud pagan king and humbles him an idolater, and he knows no other.

但现在他使他谦卑，表明他有了一个伟大的告白。

But now he humbles him and mean he has a great confession.

伟大的告白。

Great confession.

我的意思是，这真是他内心的一次奇妙转变。

I mean, it's amazing, a transformation from his heart.

看起来我们会在天堂见到他吗？

Looks like like will we see him in heaven?

我相信会的。

I believe so.

我的意思是，这太惊人了。

I mean, that's amazing.

我认为上帝，你知道，当我们读箴言和其他经文时，你知道，他管教他所爱的人，你知道。

I think like God, you know, I mean, when we take those passages in Proverbs and other, you know, like, you know, he chastises those he loves, you know.

我的意思是，他原本有那样的想法，但当他骄傲膨胀时，上帝说，好吧，给你七年，你知道，不管是七个月、七年还是七周，不管怎样，他一直被管教，直到经文说他将荣耀归给天上的神，然后他赞美他，你知道。

I mean, he, you know, he had an idea and then when his pride swelled up, God said, okay, here's seven times, you know, whatever the seven months, seven years, seven weeks, whatever happened there, you know, he was he was disciplined until he till it says he gave glory to the God of heaven, and then he praised him, you know.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

管教这个概念，我认为是体现这种关系的关键。

The chastisement idea is the I think the is the one that recognizes the relationship.

你讲过贾斯汀和自行车的故事。

You know, you tell that story about Justin and the bicycle.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

你知道，自行车并不是问题所在。

You know, the bicycle is not the issue.

关键是，我希望你拥有那辆自行车，因为你可能要骑着它送报纸。

It's the idea I would like you to have your bicycle, you know, because you might have a paper route and you want to serve papers on your bicycle.

我是出于爱才把自行车给你的，我也希望你能好好保管它，所以我告诉你怎么防止它被偷走。

You know, I gave you the bicycle out of love, and I'd like you to keep the bicycle, and I'm telling you how to make sure it doesn't get stolen off the back porch.

你知道吧？

You know?

对吧？

Right?

你可以选择听自己的心。

And you could choose to listen to you.

你知道，就像上帝在说：我告诉你关于这棵树的事。

You know, like God is saying, I'm telling you about this tree.

如果你不吃它的果子，就不会有死亡。

If you don't eat from it, then death won't be it.

如果你每天晚上把自行车放进车库里，邻居小偷偷走它的可能性就会大大降低。

If you put the bicycle in the garage every night, then the chances of the neighborhood thief taking it away from you is greatly diminished.

就相信我吧，我知道我的自行车发生了什么。

Just believe me because I I know what happened to my bicycle.

你知道吧？

You know?

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

你以前说过这节经文，像智慧的人，有顺从的耳朵，你知道吗？智慧的人接受劝诫就像蒙福，对吧？

You said that verse before, like the wise, an obedient ear, you know, wise reproved to an obedient ear is like a blessing, right?

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

是的。

Yeah.

埃米尔在笑，因为我们把自己说得好像他曾经送报一样，你知道的，带着咬痕。

We're Emil is smiling because we're dating ourselves like he might have a paper route, you know, with the bite.

记得吗？

Remember?

我有过。

I had one.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我见过你记得那些孩子背着袋子的时代吗？

I mean, I've seen you remember the years where the kids with the the sack slung around the shoulder?

我那时候全都有。

I had the whole thing.

扔那个，但我们现在完全处于不同的时代了。

Throwing that but we are totally in a different era.

更多了。

More.

那已经结束了。

That is over.

连报纸都没有了。

There aren't even any newspapers anymore.

我不这么认为。

Don't think so.

是的。

Yeah.

但回到重点，有一位名叫耶罗波安的国王，想要篡夺北国的犹太宗教，他确实雇佣了祭司，你知道的，但这些只是低级别的家伙。

But to go back to the point, there was a king Jeroboam who wanted to hijack the Jewish religion in the North, and he did hire priests, you know, but these were lower level guys.

我相信在《列王纪下》17章中也有这段记载。

And I believe it's in this text too in two Kings 17.

所以这些不是正统的祭司，你知道的，不是利未支派的祭司在教导律法。

So these are not Orthodox priests, you know, Levitical priests teaching law.

这些是完全不同的，你知道的，不同的信息、不同的精神，一切都不一样。

These are these are off, you know, different different message, different spirit and everything.

所以，我的意思是，《列王纪下》17章描述的是一个非常腐败的时代。

So, I mean, it's a very corrupt era in two Kings 17.

他们实际上是在说，我们之所以被上帝审判，是因为我们在对事物的理解上彻底混乱了。

They're actually saying this is why we are being judged by God because we're really messed up in our understanding of things.

我们已经严重背离了上帝。

We've really departed from God.

所以他把他们送到巴比伦去纠正，等他们回来后，就再也没有拜偶像了，你知道吗？

So he sends them to Babylon to be corrected, and when they come back they never become idolatrous again, you know?

这事记载在以斯拉记等经文中。

And that's in Ezra and so on.

但要说我们当今所处的时代，对基督徒而言，有许多条路可走，外表看似敬虔，却没有属灵的能力。

But to say that the era we are living in today, there are for the Christian many routes that you can go down and have a form of godliness but not have the power.

你可以外表顺从，但内心并非如此。

You can be obedient but not really in your heart.

你可以有信仰告白，但未必真正在周五晚上相信那些事。

You can have a confession but not like what do you really believe on a Friday night.

这确实如此，是的。

That's true, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

另外，昨晚讲道快结束时，如果你想找到这个信息，可以访问 ggwo.org。

The other thing, towards the end of the message last night, you can find this message friends if you want to at ggwo.org.

去听讲道吧。

And go to the sermons.

我想这些讲道过一段时间会发布在那里。

I think that'll be posted there at some point.

当你提到复活节下午和家人在一起的时候，我很感兴趣，比如我在读耶利米书时，你谈到被掳到巴比伦的人，当时对他们有什么指示？

You know, when you were talking about the Easter afternoon with your family, I mean, I'm interested, like, when I'm looking in Jeremiah and, you know, you're talking about the captivity and what was the instruction for the people who had been taken to Babylon.

我发现这些指示非常有力，就是你们应当如此行。

And I I find that instruction very powerful that, you know, this is what you are to do.

你们要为儿女娶妻，让女儿出嫁，建立家庭，耕种田地，栽种植物，为那城的平安祷告。

Your you know, the family, give your daughters to, in marriage, sons, married daughters, have families plow the fields, plant, pray for the peace of the city.

但当你谈到信仰与家庭时，似乎你提到，当我们明白上帝在伊甸园中设立的这个原则时，信仰与家庭是紧密相连的。

But like it seems like, you know, like when you're saying like faith and family, you mentioned that like faith and family, when we understand that principle that God initiated to the earth in in the garden.

你知道，家庭是第一个制度，先是婚姻，然后是由此衍生的家庭。

You know, family was the first institution there, marriage and then the family that came from it.

这似乎表明，面对我们所能汲取和思考的一切，面对这个日益混乱的世界，我们究竟该如何改变它呢？

It's like it just seems like this is for lack of like, for all that we could take in and think like, how are we going to change the world that's going chaotic?

你真的不能只看宏观层面。

Well, you really can't look macro.

你必须关注微观层面。

You have to look micro.

你必须关注你的家庭。

You have to look at your family.

就像你说的，四十口人的家庭已经算很大的家庭了，尤其是在这个人生阶段，我们家现在是十五口人。

And like you said, there's, you know, a family of 40 is a big family, you know, at this stage of life, you know, our case, it's 15 right now.

我们、我们的孩子、他们的妻子，还有我们的七个孙子孙女。

You know, us, our kids, their wives and our seven grandchildren.

所以，你知道，耶利米从神那里得到了这个信息：这就是你们该做的。

So they're, you know, that's, you know, but, you know, Jeremiah got this message from God like this is what you do.

这在那些尚未被掳的百姓中引起了不安。

This and and it created consternation back in the people who were not in captivity yet.

你在说什么呢？

Like, what are you talking about?

为城的平安祷告。

Pray for the peace of the city.

你在说什么呢？

It's like, what are you talking about?

专注于你的家庭。

Concentrate on your family.

我们想要，你知道的，我们想要胜利。

We want, you know, we want victory.

我们想要得胜。

We want triumph.

我认为法利赛人之所以无法真正看清耶稣是谁，是因为他是和平之君，而他们却在寻找一位战争之士。

And I think like the the Pharisees and the reason they couldn't really look at Jesus for who he was because he's the prince of peace, and they were looking for a man of war.

他们所期待的是能让他们在世上显得强大、威武、喧闹的东西。

And, they were looking for something that would make them, you know, big and bold and boisterous in the world.

耶稣却说，那并不是重点。

And Jesus has said, it's not about that.

你们本应成为祭司的国度。

You're supposed to be a kingdom of priests.

你们本应去服事，你知道的。

You're supposed to serve, you know?

我不太确定。

I I don't know.

我只是在想，如果我们聆听这些话，顺服可能从更近的地方开始，可能从家里开始，而不是在街上。

I'm just thinking like it's if we listen to these things, obedience may start closer, may start in the house rather than on the street.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢你提到耶利米所说的，当你去巴比伦时，会有七十年。

I like the way you said about Jeremiah saying, when you go to Babylon, it'll be seventy years.

对。

Yes.

所以那些假先知说两年内就会回来，说我们很快就会返回。

So the false prophets said two years or that it will not happen, that we will be coming back.

如果我们去，我们会立刻回来。

If we go, we will be coming back right away.

但耶利米说不是这样的。

But Jeremiah is saying no.

当你去那里时，要在巴比伦安家立业，这听起来像什么？

And when you go there, establish your family in Babylon and it's like, what?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

就像安家落户，学习当地语言，让家人买房置业，抚养子女等等。

Like establish your family and learn like you could say, learn the language, have your families buy property, raise your family, and so on.

七十年后，他们才会回来。

And after seventy years, they will will be coming back.

居鲁士是下令实现这一切的国王。

And Cyrus was the king who ordered that to happen.

是的。

Yeah.

正好应验了。

Right on cue.

对。

Yeah.

但你的观点是我们可能拥有一些需要被修正的概念。

But your point is that we can have concepts that maybe need to be corrected.

我们可能会说，耶稣的话中，他挑战了家庭观念，说：‘除非你恨自己的父亲和……'

And we might say that in the words of Jesus, He challenged family and said, Unless you hate your father and

母亲

mother

没错。

and That's right.

所以我们看到了另一面。

So we have the other side of it.

因此，我们需要调整我们的优先事项，比如使命、地方教会、福音，你知道的，把福音传到世界各地。

So we want to make adjustments to like what is our priority, like the mission, the local church, the Gospel, you know, bringing the Gospel to the world.

而另一面则是，你知道的，我们的家庭。

And the other side of it is, you know, our family.

说实话，我认为我们所有基督徒都希望获得在这两方面所需的训练和指导。

To be honest, I think all of us as Christians want to get the training and the instruction that we need for both of them.

我们需要家庭彼此沟通，尽可能频繁地相聚，彼此相爱，关心彼此，扶持彼此，分担彼此的重担，同时也要参与地方教会，并拥有普世的视野。

We need the family to be, know, us talking to each other, meeting as often as it is appropriate, loving each other, caring about each other, holding each other, bearing each other's burdens, and then also being in the local church and then having a world vision.

是的。

Yeah.

不，我认为当我们谈论基督徒的顺服时，我们知道这些看似极端的事情——你知道的，人们会想，你这是什么意思？

No, I think, you know, when we talk about obedience as Christians, and we know that these seemingly outrageously and, you know, like people think, what do you mean these kind of things?

你知道，耶稣就像是在指出关键所在。

You know, Jesus is like sort of putting a finger.

你有多想活出我的旨意？

How much do you want to live in my purpose?

我们知道，在他前往十字架之前，有一个漫长的对话发生在楼上房间，就是约翰福音13到17章，你知道的。

And we know that there's this long stretch of discussion in the upper room before he goes to the cross, John 13 through 17, you know.

但在其中，约翰福音14章，他说：你们信我，就要做比这更大的事。

But, you know, in the midst of that, John 14, he says, you believe on me, you're gonna do greater works.

我喜欢他谈论爱如何在门徒身上发挥作用这一点。

This is like, I I like, you know, I like the fact that he's talking about what love will do in his disciples there.

他说：我要离开了。

He said, I'm going to go away.

我说：好吧，但我离开的原因是因为我走后，会有更伟大的事发生。

I said, Okay, but the reason I'm going away is because something greater is going to happen when I go.

我认为这就是顺服的秘诀：如果你爱我，看，这里就是：遵守我的命令。

And I think this is I point to this as like the secret to obedience is that if you love me, here it is, keep my commandments.

他提到的命令，就是在这段经文中说的：你们要彼此相爱，像我爱你们一样。

And he said the commandments, he talks about this in this love one another as I have loved you.

这是最大的诫命。

This is the great commandment.

当一位祭司或律法师挑战他，问他最大的诫命是什么时，他自己给出了答案。

He answered this himself when he was challenged by a priest or a lawyer to say, what is the greatest commandment?

他说：你要尽心、尽性、尽意、尽力爱主你的神，并且爱人如己。

He said, love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

所以，这一切都取决于：你爱自己吗？

So, it's all, do you love yourself?

而你真正爱自己的唯一方式，就是爱主。

And the only way you can really love yourself is you love the Lord.

因此，这是第一重顺服。

And so this is the first obedience.

然后他说：如果你爱我，就会遵守我的诫命。

And then he said, if you love me, you know, you will keep my commandments.

那么诫命是什么？

And what's the commandment?

你爱我。

You love me.

这是第一条。

This is the first one.

其他的一切都随之而来，我认为。

Everything else follows after that, I think.

你知道，如果你爱他，那么贪婪就不会成为问题，那就是第十条诫命。

You know, if you love him, then coveting won't be a problem, which is the tenth commandment.

你知道，这是一个包罗万象的诫命。

You know, it's an all encompassing commandment.

你想要别人的东西吗？

Do you want somebody else's stuff?

再回到昨晚的讲道，我想你提到过一些嫉妒，比如，你会嫉妒别人的东西吗？

Again, to go back to last night message, I think you talked about jealousies there a little bit and some of that, like, do you covet somebody else's stuff?

你知道，这类事情。

You know, that kind of stuff.

而且，你知道，如果要摆脱那些，只要爱主你的神，你就会没事。

And, you know, if to get away from that, you know, just love the Lord thy God and you'll be okay.

接下来紧接着的一点，这是约翰福音14章15节。

And then the next very next thing, this is 15 in, John fourteen fifteen.

如果你爱我，就遵守我的诫命。

If you love me, keep my commandments.

他说：我要到父那里去，他会赐给你们一位保惠师，永远与你们同在。

And he says, and I'm going to go to the father, and he will give you a comforter that will abide with you forever.

就是真理的圣灵，世人不能接受，因为不见他，也不认识他；但你们认识他，因他与你们同在。

The spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him neither knows him, but you know him for he dwells with you.

这是关键所在。

And here's the big thing.

等我升上去之后，就有办法让他住在你们里面。

Once I go up, there's gonna be a way for him to be in you.

所以他说道：爱我，遵守我的——我没法一直遵守我的诫命。

And so he says, love me, keep my I can't keep my commandments.

你知道，彼得很快就会在一夜之间发现，他根本无法履行自己发誓要与耶稣同死的诺言。

You know, Peter's gonna find out very quickly overnight that he can't keep even the vow that he made to go to death with Jesus.

但你知道，圣灵将会降临，顺服将成为圣灵在你里面推动的事。

But, you know, but the spirit's gonna come and obedience is gonna be something that the Spirit moves in you.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

是的，是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

不，我的意思是，我特别喜欢这一点。

No, I mean, love that.

约翰福音14章15节说：‘你们若爱我，就当遵守我的诫命。'

John fourteen fifteen, it's, If you love me, keep my commandments.

正如你所说的，我再复述一遍：如果我凭着信心从内心遵守祂的诫命，是的，主啊，我会去做，那么就会有力量的加添。

And just what you said, I just repeat it back, that if I do keep his commandments in faith out of your heart, yes, okay, Lord, I will do this, then there will be the empowerment.

是祂在动工，也是祂在成就，祂有能力引导我们，使我们渴望如此行。

It is Him that wills and does, He's able to lead us that way so that we desire to do.

我的意思是，你个人有没有经历过：当你行祂的旨意时，你对祂旨意的渴望也随之增长？

I mean, do you personally experience that that when you do His will that you grow to desire His will?

是的，我觉得是这样。

Yeah, I think so.

我渐渐明白，我的能力是有限的，有些事我不得不去做——比如必须面对的冲突、必须做的道歉，或者当我做错事时，必须去修复关系。

And I've learned that my capacity is limited and that there are things that I've had to do, confrontations I've had to have, whatever, apologies I've had to make, you know, making things right when I've done things wrong.

我的能力是有限的，但我还是得去做。

My capacity was limited, but I had to do it.

是圣灵在我里面动工，使我有意愿去做。

And it was the spirit that did it to will.

首先，让我意识到我必须做这件事的念头，是来自神的。

First, just the idea that I needed to do it was from God.

我认为这正是腓立比书二章十三节的精髓。

And I think that's the essence of Philippians two thirteen.

他不仅在我们心中激发意愿，也赐给我们能力，去行他所喜悦的事。

And he puts in us both the idea of the will and then also gives us the capacity to do what pleases him of his good pleasure.

所以，我想说的是，真正的顺服只有当我允许圣灵以这种方式引导我时才会发生。

So, you know, I'm thinking like I I can't really you know, real obedience only happens when I allow the spirit to to move me in that way.

我们可以被这样带领，无论你手所找到的事，都要尽全力去做。

You know, we can we can be led that way, whatever our hand finds to do, do it with all our might.

就像，你知道的，一件小事的顺服，表面上看似乎微不足道，但实际上却能向神说话。

It's like, you know, a small thing, a small obedience is not seemingly small obedience is really something that, you know, that speaks, you know, speaks to God.

而且，我们常说，如果你在小事上忠心，就能被托付更大的事。

And, you know, we said, you know, if you are faithful in the little things, then you'll be able to be entrusted with bigger things.

你会怎么看待那些失去动力的人呢？

Would you say about people that like lose their motivation?

哇。

Wow.