第701集 | 如何成为受伤之人的属灵朋友

这给辅导者带来了使命感，也给被辅导者带来了新鲜感。

And it gives a purpose to the counselor and it gives a freshness to the consolee.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

确实是这样。

It really does.

还有这个想法，我知道是在雅各书里，雅各书第五章，就是说当你去找人寻求解脱时，你实际上是期待得到解脱的。

And this idea of, I know it's in James, but James chapter five, but it's like you expect when you go to someone and you're asking for like deliverance, you're actually expecting it.

你并不是在给受伤的人施加压力，但我确实想带他们走向胜利。

You're not And this isn't is like, this isn't putting anything on the hurting person, but I I do wanna take them to a place of victory.

你在提醒他们这一点。

And you you're reminding them of that.

我们一定能完成这个建造项目。

We are gonna get the building project done.

我们一定会扭转局面，你知道吗？

We are gonna undo the and you know what?

你会走到另一边的。

You're going to get to the other side.

你现在所处的这个地方，不会成为你余生的身份。

This place where you're living over here is not going to be the identity of the rest of your life.

就像你说的，你活在耶稣基督里的身份中。

And like you said, you live in your identity in Jesus Christ.

你看到你的胜利，你看到，你在呼唤那些尚未存在的事情，仿佛它们已经存在，在那个人的生命中，你看到那座桥建成了，你在说信心的话语，对受伤的人说信心的话语。

You see your victory and you're seeing, you're calling the things that are not as though they are in that person's life and you see that bridge built and you're you're you're you're speaking words of faith, words of faith in a hurting person.

是的。

Yes.

在受伤的人的生命中，你告诉他们他们是谁。

In a hurting person's life and you're telling them who they are.

因为我们甚至不是布拉德说的，我不会把话塞进他嘴里，但就像，他可以拒绝一个人。

Because we're not even Brad said, I'm not gonna put words in his mouth, but just something that it's like, he can say no to a person.

你可以对那个想留在另一边的人说，哦，我想你真的，你也许不想要答案吧。

You could say that wants to stay on the other side and say, oh, I guess you really, you you don't want an answer maybe.

你知道，你可以这么说，但作为朋友，你是在告诉他们，他们其实可以拥有胜利。

You know, you can say that, but you as a if as a friend, you're telling them there is a victory that you can actually have.

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

太美了。

Beautiful.

太美了。

Beautiful.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

而且，当我们对某人说话时，你提到过这一点，这很有意思。

And, when we speak to somebody, you said this, this is interesting.

当我们对某人说“你是得胜者”，但我们的预期却是他们不是，他们是失败者，而且还会再次失败。

When we speak to somebody and we say you're a victor, but our expectation is that they're not, they're a failure and they're gonna fail again.

对。

Yes.

而且这只是时间问题。

And it's just a matter of time.

但我需要跟他说些积极的话，试着帮他走出来。

But I need to tell them something positive to try to help him get out of it.

那不会有效果的。

That's not gonna be effective.

对吧？

Right?

那不是真心的。

It's not genuine.

那不是真心的。

It's not genuine.

那没有看到真相。

It's not seeing the truth.

而且说实话，我们之所以没有活在那种失败里，完全是因为上帝给了我们恩典，让我们没有陷进去。

And really, the truth of the matter is we are only not living in that failure because God gave us the grace not to live in that failure.

阿们。

Amen.

不是因为我们没有能力陷入那种失败。

Not because we are not capable of living in that failure.

对。

Yes.

所以当我们看到有人处于困境时，我们会说，好吧，不管是什么原因，他们最终走到了这一步。

So when we see somebody in their need and we say, okay, For whatever reason, this is where they ended up.

我们以那样的态度去面对。

And we address it in that nature.

不管是什么原因，你最终走到了这一步。

Whatever reason, this is where you ended up.

我们仍然需要上帝的拯救。

We still have need for God's deliverance.

让我们得到神的拯救。

Let's get God's deliverance.

那我们要怎么做呢？

And how do we do that?

我们要用神对我们的看法来坚固自己，而不是用我们过去的经历。

Well, we fortify ourselves with what his thoughts are towards us instead of what our experience was.

我想到了以赛亚书四十一章十节。

I was thinking about Isaiah forty one ten.

那里说，不要害怕，因为我与你同在。

It says, don't be afraid for I am with you.

不要灰心，因为我是你的神。

Don't be discouraged for I am your God.

我必坚固你，帮助你。

I will strengthen you and help you.

我必用我公义的右手扶持你。

I will hold you up with my victorious right hand.

这就是上帝想要用他得胜的右手扶持我们的关键所在。

This is the key that God wants to uphold us with his victorious right hand.

对吧？

Right?

所以朋友会说，好吧，听着，我知道你正在经历这些。

So our friendship says, okay, look, you're going through it.

我会认真倾听。

I'm gonna listen.

我会一直陪在你身边。

I'm gonna be here for you.

天哪，我真没想到会这样。

I wanna oh, man.

真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

我在听。

I'm listening.

我在分辨。

I'm discerning.

我在，你知道，我在关心。

I'm, you know, I'm caring.

我在一同哀悼。

I'm mourning with.

然后我在鼓励。

And then I'm encouraging.

对。

Yeah.

我在说，嘿。

And I'm saying, hey.

那不是你的本质。

That's not who you are.

对。

Yeah.

那是提醒你，你是谁？

That's remember who you are?

你是一个得胜者。

You're a victor.

靠着那加给我们力量的基督耶稣，我们不仅仅是得胜，更是得胜有余。

We are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus who strengthens us.

对。

Yeah.

他的怜悯每早晨都是新的，属于我们。

We are his mercies are brand new for us.

我们在他的里面是完整的。

We are complete in him.

我们已经从黑暗的国度迁到他爱子的国度里。

We are translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of his dear son.

这些才是真实的事情。

These are the things that are true.

让我们活在这些真理中。

Let's let's live in those things.

然后我们很容易又滑回去，这时我们会说，等等。

And then our temptation is to slide back down, and then we say, wait a minute.

我们是不是又滑回旧的身份了？

Are we are we sliding back down into the old identity?

那不再是我们的身份。

That's not who we are.

那是谁？

Who's that?

你现在说的是谁？

Who are you talking about right now?

那不是你。

That's not you.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

在这个过程中，我们就是用这些话来鼓励自己。

Now along the way, we are encouraging ourselves with those same words.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

这不是说我们看着朋友说，我在上面很圣洁，而你不是。

This isn't something that we're looking at our friend and saying, I'm holy up here, and you're not.

所以我要把你拉出来。

So I'm gonna get you out of it.

对。

Yeah.

就像是，不。

It's like, no.

我们是一体的。

We are we are one.

对。

Yeah.

而且我们有从神而来的需要，要像他在光明中一样行在光明中，这样我们就能与他相交。

And we have this need from God to walk in the light as he is in the light, and then we have fellowship with him.

对。

Yeah.

当我们偏离了这一点，我们该怎么办？

And when we get out of that, what do we do?

我们回到光明中。

We get back in the light.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

这真是一件美好的事情。

And this is this is, this is a beautiful thing.

那些陷入绝望的人，也许他们的朋友或生活中需要朋友，他们不想打电话给别人说，你应该听听这个信息，因为我得到了解脱。

And and people who are in that despair maybe in their friend in their lives that need a friend, they don't wanna call somebody and say, well, you should just listen to the message because I got delivered.

你知道吗？

You know?

对，是的。

Like, yeah.

这可能是真的。

It may be true.

百分之百。

A 100%.

但上帝爱我们，让我们陷入那种境地，并允许它发生。

But God loved us into that situation and allowed it to happen.

是的。

Yes.

那我们不如陪在他们身边，然后说，当我经历类似情况时，有什么真正让我坚强或帮助了我。

So how about if we sit with them and we say, something that really strengthened me or helped me when I was going through this similar situation.

上帝用一种非常棒的方式对我说话。

God spoke to me in a really awesome way.

我喜欢这个。

I love this.

我是从他那里学来的。

I learned it from him.

也许这对你有帮助。

Maybe it's helpful to you.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

就是这样。

That's yeah.

那，我们现在结束了吗？

That's, Are we done now?

哦，看着呢？

Oh, looking?

好的。

Okay.

不。

No.

好的。

Okay.

只是帮助人们的一种方式。

Just Just a way of helping people.

就像你说的，我尽量避免说那些老套的话。

And like you were saying, like, I try to refrain from cliches.

你知道

You know

你明白我的意思吗？

what I mean?

因为你知道，也许在事工里，那些陈词滥调代表的是某些人生命中的特定阶段。

Because it you know, maybe ministry cliches because it it represents certain lines maybe in somebody's life if they're in the ministry.

你知道，比如说当你提到“新造的人”的时候，我想用一种方式去解释，就像我们从布拉德那里学到的，他如何拆解这些概念，甚至把那些小玩具拿出来。

You know, like when you say like a new creation, I wanna explain it in a way we're learning from Brad even just the way he breaks it in and get the tinker toys out.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我们有那些小记事本之类的东西，但你想用一种方式去解释，把它拆解到最细微的层面，你知道吗。

We got those little scribble pads and all of that, but you wanna explain it in a way and break it down to the the minute aspects of it, you know.

所以如果我要说一个陈词滥调，我会停下来。

And it's like, so if I'm gonna say a cliche, I I stop.

然后我会问自己，这到底是什么？

And I I think of myself, what is it?

我会回到根基，然后我想在不使用那个陈词滥调的情况下向他们解释清楚。

And I go back to the foundation and I wanna explain it to them without ever saying the cliche.

正如你所说的，这帮助我理解我所相信的。

And as you're saying, it helps me understand what I believe.

陈词滥调的定义已经被扭曲了。

Cliches are they they get the definition of them is distorted.

撒旦喜欢用陈词滥调来伤害人，实际上就是这样。

The Satan loves to use cliches and and hurt people with them actually.

这是一种沟通。

And this is a a communication.

我们使用的词语在人们的生活中非常重要。

The words that we use are are very important in people's lives.

而且，要和他们所处的境况产生共鸣。

And, you know, relating to them where where they are at.

就像你在倾听一个受伤的朋友，你想和他们一起搭建桥梁的砖块，跨越过去，你知道，放上横梁，让起重机来，在两边地基打好后的第二天把钢材运来，你想把它放进去，然后看，现在你可以走过去了，我们一起走过去吧。

You wanna like, that's how you're listening to a hurting friend and because and you you wanna like build the the bricks in the bridge together with them across across, you know, put the beams, have the crane come in, bring in the steel the day after the foundation on both sides is made and you wanna lay that in there and see, you know, now you can walk across there and let's go across together.

我的意思是，这就是你想象中帮助这个人跨越某件事的方式。

I mean, that's kind of how you're imagining helping this person get across something.

所以我们是在帮助那些受伤的人，对吧？

And So we're friends to somebody that's hurting, right?

我问你一个问题，好吗？

Let me ask you a question, okay?

跟我说说，你是怎么倾听一个人的。

Like, tell me about listening to a person.

你得有时间。

You have to have time.

你得有爱心，而且之后还得有时间。

You have to have care and you have to have like time even afterwards.

跟我说说，倾听一个受伤的人是什么感觉。

Tell me about listening to someone say, tell me about the listening to somebody that's hurting.

你是怎么做到的？

Like how do you do that?

这个问题问得很好，因为这在我们的辅导或友谊中很缺乏。

I mean, it's, that's a beautiful question because it's something that lacks a lot in our counseling or our friendships.

当我们说辅导时，我们指的是在个人环境中互相鼓励。

And when we say counseling, we're just talking about encouragement one to another in kind of a personal setting.

而且，你知道，也许我们今天讨论的是友谊中的辅导。

And, you know, maybe we're not it's our in our friendships we're talking about today.

所以我们说的是任何有朋友的人。

So we're talking about anybody who's out there and has a friend.

而且，你知道，倾听。

And, you know, listening.

倾听是什么意思？

What does listening mean?

倾听意味着我愿意去听别人在说什么，而不是把自己的想法强加给他们。

Listening means that I'm willing to to hear what someone else is saying without putting something on them that I'm I'm trying to put across.

对吧？

Right?

这是第一步。

It's the first step.

其实，布拉德有一本他的书里的摘录，叫《与神同在》。

Really, actually, Brad has an excerpt from his book, Angry With God.

对吧？

Right?

原来的书名是‘对神发怒’，但那个词被划掉了。

It says angry at God, and then it's scratched out.

改成了‘与神同在’。

It says with God.

所以，这就是为这段旅程找一个朋友。

And and this is finding a friend for that journey.

对吧？

Right?

他提到了倾听这一点。

And and he talks about listening.

这确实是个关键点。

And this is really a key point.

即使我们不知道该说什么，我们也会倾听。

We listen even when we don't know what to say.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

我们倾听，不一定是因为——哦，我只是等他们说完，好让我……第一，我个人在和那些受伤的人交谈时发现，他们越是谈论自己的处境，就越是在过程中自我纠正。

We we don't necessarily listen because, oh, I'm just waiting for them to get done so I can number one, I find personally in my conversations with people that are hurting that the more they talk about the situation, they're kind of correcting themselves as they go.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Right.

但很多时候，他们心里其实明白。

But a lot of times, they know.

他们只是在表达出来，而我们在一旁认同他们，陪伴他们，爱他们。

And they just they're articulating it, and we're agreeing with them, and we're there loving them.

我跟人聊过二十分钟或半小时，我几乎没说什么话。

I've had conversations with somebody that's twenty minutes or half hour and I barely say anything.

他们说，谢谢你。

They say, thank you.

这真的很有帮助。

This was so helpful.

他们其实是在自我疏导，因为有人愿意听他们说话。

They counseled them the hurting person counseled themselves just because someone listened to them.

是的。

Yes.

而且他们真的能，所以这有一个很好的类别。

And they could actually they so there's a great category.

受伤的人真的有一个倾听者，只要有人系统地听他们说话，因为有时候你想的和说的不一样。

The hurting person actually has a listener and just for somebody to listen to him systematically because sometimes you think things differently than you say things.

对。

Yes.

然后

And

当你能把话说出来，而且你知道有人在听，你的思维就会往很多不同的方向发散。

when you can say things, you do it and you know someone's listening, your mind just goes in many different directions if you're thinking.

但如果你说出来，你就能开始把它们理出某种顺序，然后你就能把自己释放出来。

But if you say them, you actually can actually you start to list them in a in some type of order and you can deliver yourself.

对。

Yes.

而且他在这个倾听过程中还更进一步。

And he even goes a step further in this listening process.

他说，你知道，他说在完全共情和回避困难之间有一个中间地带，那就是你要带着谦卑和勇气说：我不太确定我完全理解，但是，我知道这真的很难，但是，我理解你为什么觉得被困住了。

And he says, you know, he says the middle ground between being all empathy and avoiding hard situations is that you want with humility and courage to say, I'm not really sure that I fully understand, but I, and I know it's really hard, but, and I understand why you feel stuck.

我们来聊聊吧。

Let's talk about it.

对吧？

Right?

所以他并不是在说，我有答案给你。

So he's he's he's not saying, I have the answer to you.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

但他是在倾听。

But he's listening.

而且他愿意去了解，这是下一集的内容。

And he's willing to learn about he this is next episode.

在开口之前，他愿意先了解你的经历。

He's willing to learn about your experience before speaking to them.

就像我们可能会因为听到对方谈话的一部分，就自以为理解了对方的立场，但实际上可能完全误解了整个情况。

Like we we could assume that we understand where a person's coming from because we got a piece of their conversation and we might be misaligning the whole situation.

对。

Yeah.

但我愿意说，你知道，我说话慢，但听得快。

But I'm willing to say, you know, I'm slow to speak and I'm, quick to hear.

对吧？

Right?

就像，我想听。

Like, I I wanna hear.

我想听别人在说什么。

I wanna hear what somebody's saying.

还有，你有没有遇到过这种情况：有人对你说了一些话，但你心里却在想，我知道他们真正是什么意思。

And also, how many times have you been in a situation where somebody says something to you, but you're going, I know what they really mean.

是的。

Yes.

他们这么说，是因为他们在试图保护自己的痛苦，或者试图不让自己在那种情况下显得太软弱或脆弱。

They're saying it because they're trying to protect their their pain or they're trying trying not to make themselves look, too soft or weak in this situation.

对。

Yeah.

但你知道他们真正想说的是什么。

But you know what they're really saying.

对吧？

Right?

这就是上帝赐予我们洞察他人生活的一部分，就是要倾听，再倾听，不仅仅是听，而是要听懂。

And this is part of the discernment that god gives us in people's lives is to listen and and listen and not only just listen but to hear.

这是下一步。

That's the next step.

我听了他说的话，但我也听懂了他的意思。

I listened to him, but then I also heard them.

对。

Yeah.

他们真正需要的，可能不是他们嘴上说的那个需求。

And what they really need may not be what they're saying they need.

但真正需要的东西，能帮他们消除他们嘴上说的那个需求所表现出来的症状。

But what they really need can help get rid of the symptom that's showing up in what they say they need.

对。

Yeah.

对，那很好。

Yeah, that's great.

现在，我在听。

And now, so I'm listening.

我在听他们说话。

I'm listening to them.

我的爱和恩典的基石是什么？

What are my building blocks of like love and grace?

就像保罗说的，我是罪人中的罪魁，但他也说，我成了何等的人，是靠着神的恩典。

Like Paul said, I'm chief of sinners, but he also said, I am what I am by the grace of God.

他曾经是个杀人犯。

He was a murderer.

他曾经是个杀人犯。

He was a murderer.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我一直在想这个。

And I think of that.

我一直在想，彼得曾经否认过基督，但他后来也被神使用了，你懂我的意思吗？

I've been thinking about that, like, and, you know, and Peter would deny Christ and he was, you know what I mean?

神还是用了他，你知道吗？

And God used him, you know?

还有，我最近读到布拉德的书，或者别的什么，里面提到，如果那个指控彼得认识基督的女孩，看到彼得在五旬节讲道传福音，会怎么样。

And I think Brad's book or something I just read about what if the girl that accused Peter of knowing Christ saw Peter at Pentecost preaching the gospel.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know I mean?

就像那个女孩当时拒绝了他一样。

This would be like the girl was like reject him.

你懂我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

但我们怎么给予呢？

But how do we give?

我是说，彼得有属灵的侍奉。

I mean, and Peter had a spiritual ministry.

作为朋友，我们怎么把这些建造的基石给那些受伤的人呢？

How do we give those as a friend, those building blocks to someone that is hurting?

我觉得，部分在于排练。

I mean, I think part of it is rehearsal.

对吧？

Right?

我们就是在排练。

We're just rehearsing.

这是劝勉的一部分。

This is part of exhortation.

这就像我们在坚固某人对救赎的把握。

This is like we are we are strengthening somebody in their possession of redemption.

对吧？

Right?

对我来说是真实的，对正在交谈的那个人也是真实的。

What's true to me is true to the person I'm talking to.

是的。

Yes.

上帝毫无保留地爱我。

God loves me unequivocally.

对吧？

Right?

他不会因为爱我而感到难过。

He's not sorrow sorrowful that he loves me.

对。

Yeah.

他的爱不会因为我的失败而改变。

His love didn't change because of my my failure.

我的失败是意料之中的事。

My failure is what's expected of me.

我是从尘土中来的。

I'm made from the dust.

他并不感到震惊。

He's not shocked.

对吧？

Right?

他的痛苦、他的伤害，无论是什么，都不会让我被排除在上帝的计划之外。

His his pain, his hurt, whatever it is, does not cause me to be rejected from the plan of God.

所以我必须在自己的人生中对这些事情有安全感。

So I have to be secure about those things from my own life.

对吧？

Right?

然后当我陪伴别人时，我就是在坚固他们对救赎的拥有。

And then as I'm walking alongside somebody, I'm just strengthening them in their their possession of redemption.

我会搂着他们说，靠着神的恩典，我们不仅仅是得胜者。

I'm putting my arm around them and saying, we are more than conquerors by the grace of God.

而且我们要坚持的原则是，不能因为感情用事，就让人又滑回去，说没关系。

And the building blocks are we're not gonna allow in our sentimentality someone to slip back in and say, it's okay.

你只是软弱。

You're just weak.

我们要说，不。

We're gonna say, no.

这确实是软弱，但我们不会一直活在这种软弱里。

It it is a weakness, but we're not gonna live in that weakness.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我们每个人在人际关系中都遇到过这样的情况，有人在某个方面给了我们力量。

I have we've all had situations in our relationships where somebody has strengthened us in an area.

也许我在某些事情上缺乏安全感。

You Maybe I'm insecure about something.

我分享了一个信息，但因为没能把想表达的观点说清楚而感到不安。

I shared a message and I was insecure because I didn't get a point across that I wanted to make.

听起来好像我……然后我的配偶说，你能不能别那么不安，就感谢上帝，他已经传达了该传达的信息。

It sounded like I and my spouse says, would you stop being insecure and just thank God that he communicated what it was supposed to be communicated?

然后你就继续往前走。

And and you go forward.

你会说，哇。

And you say, wow.

谢谢你的这番鼓励。

Thank you for that exhortation.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yes.

我知道她说的是真话，因为她爱我。

I know that she's telling the truth because she loves me.

是的。

Yes.

而且我也知道，我自己可能是我最大的敌人，尤其是在不安全感方面，我们每个人都是这样。

And I also know that I can be my worst enemy in my own insecurity, any of us.

对吧？

Right?

作为男人，我们确实会缺乏安全感。

As men, we are we are insecure.

当然。

Sure.

所以，这些基础就是要提醒我们，首先，我们在基督里是谁。

And, so the building blocks are just reminding us of, first of all, who we are in Christ.

你懂吗？

You know?

是他要用右手来坚固我们。

That it is he that wants to strengthen us with his right hand.

哇。

Wow.

这是他的旨意。

That it's his purpose.

对吧？

Right?

若不是他的怜悯，我们早就被毁灭了。

It's his mercy that we're not consumed.

是的。

Yes.

正是他的怜悯，让每一天都焕然一新。

It's his mercy that's brand new every single day.

而且我们还能互相磨砺。

And also that we can be sharpened.

你知道，箴言十七章十七节和十七章二十七节。

You know, Proverbs seventeen seventeen and seventeen twenty seven.

这里有铁磨铁的原则。

You got the iron sharpening iron principle.

铁磨铁的原则不是说因为我强，所以我磨你。

That iron sharpening iron principle is not that I'm sharpening you because I'm strong.

而是说，看看神在我生命中做了什么，这个也同样赐给你。

It's that look what God's done in my life, and it's offered to you as well.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

所以这些都是基石。

So there are building blocks.

无论是作为辅导者走进来的人，还是作为被辅导者的人，他们都需要明白自己可以随时来到施恩的宝座前，明白上帝多么爱他们，多么关心他们，想要建立他们。

And the person who is, like, walking in in as the counselor or the one who's walking as the consolee, they both have to understand the access that they have to the the throne of grace and how much God loves them and and is concerned for them and wants to build them up.

当我们失败的时候，故事并没有结束。

And when we fail, it's not the end of the story.

义人一天跌倒七次，但他还会再站起来。

The just man falls seven times in a day, and he gets back up again.

因为每一次跌倒，他都意识到这是上帝的恩典，他在成长，在前进。

Because each and every time he realizes it's the grace of God, and I'm growing and I'm moving forward.

好吧，有人受伤了，我们就在他们所在的地方与他们相遇。

And okay, somebody's hurting, we meet them where they're at.

对。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

我们无条件地爱他们。

We we love them unconditionally.

我们在他们受试炼的时候鼓励他们。

We encourage them in their trial.

我们与他们一同哀哭。

We mourn with them.

我们挑战他们。

We challenge them.

每一步都带领他们更靠近上帝。

Each step is carrying them another step with God.

我们不要专注于挑战本身。

It's let's not be occupied with the with the challenge.

我们要专注于基督，他是那位从挑战中拯救我们的。

Let's be occupied with Christ who is the deliverer from the challenge.

对。

Yeah.

得胜。

Victory.

还有一点，我在生活中给人建议时，并不想把别人引到我的路上来。

And how about this also that in my counsel in life, I'm not interested in counseling people onto my ways.

比如说，我们是朋友，你有软弱、挑战、麻烦或困难，而神因某种原因使用我来造就你。

Like, that, okay, we're friends and you have a weakness or a challenge or a trouble or a difficulty, and God uses me for some reason to edify you.

我希望我的建议或友谊能把你指向基督，因为你的安慰来自他。

My my desire is that my counsel or my friendship would point you towards Christ where your relief comes from.

而且这甚至不需要我们再提起，可能我们以后都不会再谈这件事。

And not that it would be something that we even have to talk we might never talk about it again.

我记得有些时候，我和教会里的人进行过非常艰难、疯狂的谈话。

I can think of instances where I had really, really hard, crazy conversations with people in our church.

我经历过这种情况。

I went through this situation.

我是说，那些事情会让你震惊。

I mean, things that you would be shocked.

对吧？

Right?

因为这就是辅导的本质。

Because this is just the nature of counseling.

然后有人说，我遇到过这种情况。

Then somebody says, I was in this situation.

我做了这件事。

I did this.

那是最可怕的事情。

It was the most horrific thing.

我们处理它。

We deal with it.

我们继续前进。

We move forward.

我们互相鼓励。

We we encourage.

我们得到恩典。

We get grace.

我们在十字架上看到了自己。

We see ourselves in the cross.

转眼间，我连那份团契都没有了。

The next thing you know, I don't even have that fellowship.

我甚至都不记得了。

I don't even remember.

说实话，就像那些神在过去为我们成就的事，他已经处理过了。

Honestly, like you have those those things that God has done in our past that he's dealt with.

他再也不会提起那些事。

He never brings them up again.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

所以，那个受伤的人，最终渴望的就是不再受伤。

So so the hurting person, ultimately, their desire is that they would not be hurting.

是的。

Yes.

那我们怎么才能去掉那种毒呢？

And how do we get rid of that poison?

嗯，你得帮他们明白，那种毒并不是最终的结果。

Well, you gotta you gotta help them see that that poison is not the end game.

你懂吗？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

最终的结果是通过基督得到的更新和释放，而且他们是可以达到那个状态的。

What the end game is is refreshment and relief that comes through Christ and that they can get there.

太好了。

Great.

如果可以的话，我想分享一个见证。

I I get one testimony if I can give it.

我昨天才明白这一点。

I I just understood this yesterday.

我的意思是，这是我听别人讲的一个见证。

I I mean, I I this is something I a testimony someone told me.

那是一个非常不可思议的见证，跟我们刚才说的有点像，但正好相反，讲的是一个朋友需要原谅一个对她做了很糟糕事情的人。

And it was it was the most incredible testimony about kind of what we're talking about, but it's the reverse of that where a friend had to forgive somebody that had done something really bad to them.

而这个人，就是那个受到伤害的人，很多年都无法原谅对方。

And this person, this person that was receiving this this action against against them had many years of not being able to forgive that person.

但那个朋友一直努力在神面前为那个人祈求宽恕。

But that friend lived in trying to get forgiveness from God for that person.

而且她是一个在信仰上非常坚定的人。

And if it's a very stable person in the Lord.

她一直以朋友的身份陪伴在那里。

And she stayed there as a friend.

她没有推开那个朋友，也没有说‘我无法原谅你’这样的话。

She didn't push that friend away and say, I can't forgive you.

她努力了很多年，年复一年，祈求上帝赐予她宽恕。

She fought for years, years and years to get forgiveness from God.

上帝让这件事一直困扰着她，这样她才能明白上帝的心意，从而继续做那个人的朋友。

God let that buffet her so that as so and to to find God's mind so she could remain a friend to that person.

那个人对她来说是个很亲密的朋友。

It was a dear friend to her.

她经历了一些事情，然后她不得不等待上帝的恩典，让她能够原谅那个人。

Something happened to her, and then she had to wait on the grace of God to give her forgiveness for that person.

我就在想，你知道吗，这也是我们作为朋友可以做的事情。

And I was just thinking, you know, like this is also something that we can do as a friend.

你知道，比如你可能嫉妒过某个人，然后你需要花很多年才能放下对朋友的嫉妒，而这个过程你是和上帝一起度过的。

You know, like you could be, you know, maybe you've you've been jealous of someone and you have to wait years to lose your jealousy of a friend and you're doing that with God.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know I mean?

宽恕需要很多年，但最终你会没事的。

Forgiveness years and it's like, you're fine.

你没事了。

You're you're fine.

但心里总有一根刺，你一直在等，为了朋友。

But there's this thorn in your flesh that you're just waiting on for a friend.

你对朋友心生嫉妒。

You're jealous of a friend.

你必须原谅一个朋友。

You have to forgive a friend.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know I mean?

发生了某些事，你等待上帝赐予恩典，让这件事彻底化解。

Something's happened and and you wait on God to receive God's grace to have that completely cleared up.

所以，我的意思是，这也是我们作为朋友可以做的。你知道，不一定说那个她需要原谅的人真的需要她的原谅，但我们是在给朋友他们真正需要的东西。

So, I mean, this is also how we can be friend, you know, I mean, it doesn't necessarily that in one sense that person that she needed to forgive needed needed that, you know, from her, but we're giving something to a friend that they actually need.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know I mean?

我们一直在等待。

And we're waiting on it.

我喜欢这样想，虽然有些事情不完美，但这个人，你知道，学会原谅这件事本身是完美的。

And I love to think about something's not perfect, but this this person was, you know, learning how to forgive was perfect.

但她并没有完美的原谅，而且她一年后或两年后也没有做到。

But she wasn't she didn't have perfect forgiveness, but she and she didn't have it, you know, a year later or two years later.

她等了多年，让上帝来争战，让上帝在她的生命中动工，使原谅成为她生命的一部分。

She waited for years from God to get to battle, for God to work her soul to get that in her life.

所以现在，对于那些正在受伤的人，这就是上帝搭建桥梁的方式，他称那些不存在的事为存在。

So now somebody that's hurting, this is how God builds the bridges, and he calls those things that are not as though they are.

对。

Mhmm.

你正在受伤，但上帝确实看到你站在另一边，带着牧师巴里·奎克的身份。

You're hurting, but God does actually see you on the other side with, you know, the identity of pastor Barry Quirk.

他看到你在那边，在基督里是完整的。

He sees you on that side complete in Christ.

这也是我们在把自己的伤痛交给别人时，值得思考的一点。

And this is this is something to to think about as we as we give our hurts to other people.

就像，你知道，甚至在交出去之前，我我不知道你怎么能交出去，但甚至想想这一点，就像上帝确实看到你在另一边。

Like, you know, even before you give it, I I don't know how you can give it, but even think about that, like God does see you on the other side.

我们会到达那一边的。

We're going to get to that other side.

对。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我我真的觉得这是个好观点，首先，我们的思维，你知道，远远达不到上帝看待事情的方式。

I I really it's a good point that the first of all, our minds, you know, are so we fall so short of how God sees situations.

对吧？

Right?

他看的是全局计划，而我们却困在怎么修补这个小地方的小图表里。

He's looking at the master plan and we're stuck in the little breakout diagram on how to fix this little spot.

而他说，这只是大画面中的一个小细节。

And he's like, this is just one little detail in the big picture.

对。

Yeah.

而且，我的道路不是你们的道路。

And I my ways are not your ways.

我的道路比你们的道路高得多。

My ways are so much higher than your ways.

对吧？

Right?

上帝对每个方面都有安排。

That God's God has a plan to deal with every aspect of it.

而且参与其中的都是不完美的人。

And it's all imperfect people involved in this.

对吧？

Right?

所以即使是那个帮助需要帮助的朋友的人，他自己也是不完美的。

So even the friend who's loving the other friend who needs help Yeah.

他也有缺点。

He's imperfect.

对吧？

Right?

所以即使是他看待那个人进步的方式，如果你不把这件事交给上帝，你肯定会失望的。

So even the way he sees the progress of the person, it's if you don't give that to God, you're gonna be disappointed.

哇。

Wow.

因为事情可能不会按照你的时间表发生。

Because it's not gonna happen in your time maybe.

是的。

Yeah.

或者可能比你想象的要快得多。

Or maybe it's gonna happen quicker than what you think it should.

然后你会觉得那个人应该更悔改，或者那个人应该不那么自由，或者别的什么。

And you're gonna judge that person should be more repentant or that person should be less free or whatever it is.

但不如我们把它交给上帝吧？

But how about we give it to God?

对吧？

Right?

我们让上帝做上帝，每个人都是说谎者。

We let God be God and every man a liar.

我觉得这种关系的美好之处在于，上帝使用不完美的人。

And I think the the the beautiful thing about these kinds of relationships is that God uses imperfect people.

我们在节目开始前聊了一会儿，我说过那句话：受伤的人会伤害别人。

We were talking a little before the show and I said, that saying that hurt people hurt people.

我还说，其中一个变体是，人们会向那些并不一定是造成他们伤痛的人流血。

And I said, one variant of that is that people bleed on people who didn't necessarily cause that blood to happen in the first place.

是的。

Yes.

我得愿意说，好吧，这在我们的友谊中会发生。

And I have to be willing to say, okay, it's gonna happen in my friendship.

这个受伤的人是因为某个情况而受伤，不是因为我，但我可能会沾到一些血。

This person who's hurt is hurt at a situation, not me, but I might catch some of that that blood.

对。

Yeah.

我能不能把自己看作一个从上帝那里获得力量的人，而不是被那个受伤的人伤害，甚至他们都没意识到他们伤我有多深？

And am I able to see myself as a person who's gonna get their strength from God and not by that person who's hurting hurting me by the not even realizing how badly they're hurting me?

在这种情况下，我能给他们恩典吗？

And can I give them grace in that situation?

是的。

Yes.

因为这也是我在这种情况下需要的恩典。

Because it's the same grace that I need in this situation.

是的。

Yes.

然后另一部分就是，上帝会医治，上帝是那位会医治的，而且只有上帝能够医治。

And then the other part of that is that that God heals, and God is the one who will heal, and God is the only one that can heal.

我无法医治这个局面，但我可以鼓励别人来到那位能医治的上帝面前，躺在他为我们预备的水边，在青草地上，在静水旁，在他丰盛的怜悯和伟大的恩典中。

I can't heal the situation, But I can encourage somebody to come to the one who can and to lay down by the waters that he provides for us, you know, in the green pastures by still waters in his rich mercy and in his great grace.

所以我们今天在学。

So we're learning today.

对吧？

Right?

我们在学，而且我们是基督身体的一部分。

We're learning, and and we're part of the the body of Christ.

基督的身体有很多很多肢体。

And the body of Christ is, it has many, many members.

有时候我们是建造别人的那一位，有时候我们是需要被建造的那一位。

And we have times when we are the ones that are building up, and we have times where we are ones that need the building up.

是的。

Yes.

不管怎样，最终恢复我们的还是上帝，而我们要做的就是接受这份恢复。

And in either way, ultimately, it is God's position to to restore us, and it's ours to receive that.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

希望这对你有帮助。

I hope this has been helpful to you.

如果你在巴尔的摩地区，今晚六点能来的话，还有一场。

If you're in the Baltimore area and you can make it tonight at 06:00, there's another session.

对。

Yep.

友谊。

Friendship.

关于友谊，由布拉德和汉布里克主讲。

On friendship with Brad and Hambrick.

然后明天早上十点，对。

And then tomorrow morning at 10:00 Yeah.

还是在这个小礼堂，我们不开平时的员工会议了，会再开一个会。

Also right here in the chapel, instead of our normal staff meeting, we're gonna have a a meeting, another meeting.

而且，你知道，这段时间真的很棒。

And, you know, it's been a great time.

感谢你今天来参加。

Thank you for joining us today.

希望这些分享能让你有所收获。

Hopefully, these thoughts will edify you.

上帝保佑你，我们很快再见。

God bless you, and we will see you very soon.

我们的会议就要到了。

Our convention is coming up.

欢迎大家来参加。

Come on out.