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什么时候
When
做计划变得这么复杂了？
did making plans get this complicated?
是时候用 WhatsApp 来简化了，这款安全的即时通讯应用能把整个群组聚在一起。
It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.
用投票功能来解决晚餐安排。
Use polls to settle dinner plans.
发送活动邀请并置顶消息，这样没人会忘记妈妈六十岁的告别会。
Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's sixtieth Goodbye.
而且不会错过任何梗或重要时刻，所有内容都有端到端加密保护。
And never miss a meme or milestone, all protected with end to end encryption.
是时候用 WhatsApp 了。
It's time for WhatsApp.
和每个人私密聊天。
Message privately with everyone.
更多信息请访问 whatsapp.com。
Learn more at whatsapp.com.
嗨，布莱恩。
Hi, Bryan.
嘿。
Hey.
非常感谢你今天邀请我和我们到你家做客。
Thank you so much for having me and having us in your home today.
这感觉太不真实了，我之前看过你采访我欣赏的一些采访者，还有我的几个朋友，迈克和洛根。
This is surreal after having watched you do a couple of interviews with interview words that I admire and a couple of my friends, Mike and Logan.
他们的播客第一次让我破防了。
Whose podcast actually broke character on for the first time.
所以我觉得你对他们也是这样的。
So I felt like you were doing the same with them as well.
你好像在展示自己不同的一面，就是和兄弟们一起玩。
You were, like, showing a different side of yourself and just hanging out with the guys.
看到那场面真的很酷。
It was very cool to see.
洛根是几年前成为我朋友的，大概一年前吧。
Logan became a friend a couple years ago and, I guess, like, a year ago.
所以我们一直在搞些事情。
And so we've been messing around with stuff.
所以，是的，我们聊起来的时候有很多熟悉感。
So, yeah, we had a lot of familiarity going into the conversation.
太棒了。
Awesome.
他现在的处境很复杂，因为他的职业，基本上就是在遭受创伤性脑损伤。
He's in this complicated situation because his profession, he's basically getting, like, traumatic brain injuries.
你知道，他被人狠狠摔在地上。
You know, he's being body slammed.
是的。
Yes.
而且他还想保持健康，所以我跟他说，嘿，兄弟，小心点。
And he's also trying to be very healthy, so I was telling him like, hey man, like be careful.
我看到他做了大概50次核磁共振，但你也做过类似的。
I saw he's done like 50 MRIs, but you've done similar.
你看，在所有摔跤手里，他肯定是在主动照顾自己健康、监测健康影响方面做得最好的。
See, he definitely is probably doing the best job out of all the wrestlers in terms of proactively taking care of his health and monitoring the health effects.
但没错。
But Right.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我想看看摔跤手是否和职业橄榄球运动员有类似的状况，你知道，连续的脑震荡和……
I'd like to see if if wrestlers have a similar kind of profile as professional football players, you know, successive concussions and...
比如，当他们……
Like, when they...
我最近去参加了一个WME的活动，天哪，他们真是拼了。
I went to a WME event recently, and, man, they get after it.
所以我不知道全身的损伤有多严重，但确实挺严重的。
So I don't know what the whole body damage is, but it's pretty significant.
为了洛根着想，我希望他没事。
For Logan's sake, I hope he's he's okay.
环游世界，欢迎收听你的主持人，Gstaad Guy。
Around the world with your host, The Gstaad Guy.
欢迎回到Gstaad Guy播客，与内行人士分享卓越故事，献给那些懂行的人。
We welcome you back to The Gstaad Guy podcast, sharing stories of excellence with those in the know for those who just know.
再次感谢你邀请我们来你家做客。
I mean, again, thank you so much for having us in your home.
我知道这通常是你一天快结束的时候。
I know that this is around the end of your day typically.
所以这相当于在我那边晚上十点或十一点接受采访。
So this would be the equivalent of having an interview on my side at ten or 11PM.
对，没错。
Yeah, that's right.
所以真的很感谢你今天欢迎我们到你家来。
So I really appreciate you welcoming us into your home today.
我想观众们都很了解你，但对于那些不了解的人来说，欢迎来到Gstaad Guy播客。
I assume the audience knows you very well, but for those who don't know, welcome to the Stad Guy podcast.
布莱恩·约翰逊就是那个想在地球上活得最好、最长的人。
Bryan Johnson is the man trying to live the best and longest on earth.
你是世界上最健康的人。
You are the healthiest man in the world.
你达到了完美的睡眠评分，你正在改变长寿和健康生活的意义。
You have achieved the perfect sleep score and you are changing what it means to live long and live well.
我有很多朋友是你的超级粉丝，他们尽量按照Blueprint方法来生活。
I have a lot of friends who are big fans of yours and who try to live as close as possible to the Blueprint Method.
他们中的很多人碰巧在工作和成功方面和你有着相似的成果，而且他们已经退出了公司，在生活和事业上达到了一个阶段，拥有时间和资源的奢侈，可以全力以赴。
Many of them happen to share similar outcomes of their work and success as you do and having exited companies and reached a point in their lives and careers where they have the luxury of time and resources to really go all out.
我还有其他一些朋友，他们可能没有同样的资源，但他们专注于你经常提到的睡眠、锻炼和饮食这些基本方面。
And I have other friends as well who may not have the same resources and actually focus on the basics of sleep, exercise and eat that you talk about very often.
但我想从你当创始人的时候开始聊起，在你把Braintree卖给PayPal之前，你当时的生活是什么样的？
But I'd love to start our conversation by going back in time to what your life was like when you were a founder, before you exited your startup, Braintree to PayPal.
以前的布莱恩是什么样的人？
What was old Bryan like?
我记得我和自己达成的那个协议。
I mean, I remember the the bargain I did with myself.
我……
I...
21岁的时候，我在想，到30岁我需要多少钱才能不用工作。
At at the age of 21, I was trying to imagine how much money would I need by the age 30 to stop working.
所以我直接打开了一个电子表格。
And so I just pulled out a spreadsheet.
开始算一些数字。
Started doing some math.
我假设利率是7%。
I assumed a 7% interest rate.
当时我假设我每个月的开销大概是，你知道的，一万美元。
And at the time, I assumed my monthly consumption would be something like, you know, $10,000 a month.
这对一个家庭来说应该够了。
That would be adequate for a family.
我，我计划要几个孩子。
I I had, I plan on having a few kids.
所以我就……
And so I...
如果我没记错的话，我算出来的数字大概是七百万美元。
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the number I came up with was something like $7,000,000.
如果我有那么多钱，而且我们生活节俭，那基本上就够我永远不用再工作了。
If I got that and we lived in a frugal way, it was enough money to basically never work again.
所以我觉得那是最低的可能性，当然，你可以在此基础上往上加。
And so I thought that's like the low end of the possibility, then of course, you can go up from there.
当时的想法是，如果你愿意投入那样的旅程，你可能最终得到零，或者，你知道的，七百万甚至更多，但你基本上是在做那个交易。
And the contemplation was that if you if you were willing to devote yourself on that kind of journey, you could come up with 0 or get, you know, 7,000,000 or more, but you basically were making that bargain.
所以我记得当时的心态就是，我愿意为这个交易牺牲自己，也就是说，我知道作为创业者，你必须非常努力地工作，可能一周七天，全天候不停歇。
And so I remember the mentality in doing that was I'm willing to sacrifice myself for this bargain, which means I know as an entrepreneur, you're gonna have to work very hard, probably seven days a week, all day every day.
你大概不会有太多假期。
You probably are not gonna take very many vacations.
这件事会一直萦绕在你心头。
It's gonna be on your mind all the time.
就像，它会完全占据你的生活，我记得我就是带着这种心态开始的。
Like, it's going to be an all consuming thing, And I remember that was the mentality I had in going into it.
所以我知道这是一种牺牲。
So I knew it was a sacrifice.
我知道这是一笔交易，我也知道我必须要付出代价。
I knew it was a bargain, and I knew I was gonna have to pay a price.
所以我甚至不去质疑代价是什么。
And so I just didn't even question what the price was.
我只是觉得，这样做总归是值得的，然后你就能有一个时间跨度，在那段时间里你不需要再拼搏了。
I just assumed that doing it would be somehow worth so then you'd have this some time horizon where you didn't need to play.
所以我觉得，我最初的假设其实已经包含了，我愿意为这个目标牺牲自己。
So I guess that really my starting assumption baked in the fact that I was already willing to sacrifice myself for this objective.
好的。
Fine.
我猜你说的牺牲自己，是指没有好好睡觉，也没有好好吃饭吧。
And I assume by sacrifice yourself, you mean not sleeping as well as you could have, not eating as well as you could have.
对，这就是代价。
I mean, that's the bargain.
所以如果你……
So like if you...
我学到的是，当我分享关于健康和养生的想法时，还有关于……
What I've learned is that when I share ideas about health and wellness and about...
比如，周六我跟一群人讲话的时候，我试图说服他们把睡眠当作生活的头等大事。
For example, like when I was speaking to a group on Saturday, and I was trying to persuade them to make sleep their number one life priority.
然后我让大家举手，比如谁……
And I got people to raise their hands, like, who...
你知道，在……之后……
You know, after...
这大概是在我花了十分钟解释睡眠的好处以及睡不好对身体造成的伤害之后，然后我说，愿意的请举手。
This is, like, after ten minutes of explaining the benefits and also the damage that your body incurs when not sleeping well, and I would say like, raise your hand.
谁愿意承诺？
Who's willing to commit?
有不少人举手了，但可能还有大概30%的人非常坦诚。
And I got quite a few people, but then there's probably like 30% of people who are being intellectually honest.
他们说，我做不到。
They're like, I can't.
然后我就说，好吧。
And so I'd say, okay.
你对这个有什么异议？
What's what's your objection to this?
然后有一位女士说，嗯，我的孩子们，他们做不到。
And so one one woman said, well, my children, they can't do it.
他们就说，我问为什么？
They just I said, why?
她说，他们事情太多了，作业太多，还有课外体育活动，你说他们怎么去竞争？
And she said, they have too much to do, like too much homework, too much, you know, the sports activities after school, like, how are they going to compete?
我当时想找个方式表达，社会里我们默认如果事情太多，就得牺牲睡眠。
And I was trying to figure out a way to articulate this that in society, we've just assumed that if there's too much going on, sleep must be sacrificed.
而不是说睡眠是必须保证的，其他所有事情都得围着它安排。
Instead of saying sleep is the nonnegotiable, and everything else must be planned around it.
然后有个南加州大学的学生也举手了。
And then somebody who was a student at USC also raised his hand.
他说，我做不到，因为我是学生，我得拼成绩去竞争。
He said, I can't because I'm a student, and I'm trying to get my, you know, grades to compete.
所以我觉得这两个例子都说明，人们把睡眠当成一个可以随便调整的变量，其他目标才是固定的。
And so I guess in both those examples, people, they they treat sleep as a variable that can be pushed around according to other fixed goals.
而我想跟他们说的是，睡眠才是要固定的，其他事情才是可以调整的变量。
And what I was suggesting to them is they need to fix sleep, and other things are the variables they need push around.
所以作为一个……
And so as a...
作为一个21岁的创业者，我基本上接受了社会的那种观念，愿意把睡眠当成一个可以随意调整的变量，因为我的目标是固定的，而且……
As an entrepreneur at 21 years of age, I was basically accepting that societal assumption that I was willing to accept that sleep was a variable that I could push around because my goal was fixed, and...
但人们要真正想明白这件事需要很长时间，因为这种观念根深蒂固，觉得我们不需要睡眠，睡眠不重要，所以往往要经历好几个阶段，人们才会意识到自己到底在做什么。
But it takes a long time for people to really think this through because it's so ingrained in us that we don't need sleep, it's not really important, that it takes like several cycles to go through for someone to realize what they're actually doing.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
我特别好奇你的转变过程，从为了工作牺牲健康，到后来实现了目标、退出公司，终于能够调整优先级、重新安排牺牲的东西。
I'm incredibly curious about your transition from sacrificing your health for the sake of work to once you had accomplished your goal and exited your business and you were finally able to shift your priorities and realign your sacrifices.
那是立刻发生的改变吗？
Was that an immediate change?
我觉得是逐渐变化的，强度上慢慢调整。
I think it was gradual in its intensity.
所以有几件事。
So a few things.
第一，我们都希望身体健康，因为感觉不舒服很难受，而感觉很好是你非常珍惜的。
One, we're all motivated to have good health because feeling crummy sucks and feeling great is something you you you cherish.
但在这两种感受之间，你并不清楚自己到底想要什么，比如……
But in between those two observations, it's not clear whether you, like...
假设你赚了钱，现在开始审视自己的生活。
So let's just say you make money, and now you are evaluating your life.
什么更重要？
What's more important?
是和朋友们开心地玩、聚会，还是按时上床睡觉？
Is it to have a great time with friends and party, or is it to go to bed on time?
你必须权衡这两件事。
And you have to weigh those two things.
如果有人说，其实我更愿意和朋友一起开心，我平时一周都保持健康，然后我想尽情狂欢，因为这是我享受的事情。
And if the person says, actually, I'd rather have a good time with my friends and, like, I'm healthy all week long, and then I wanna party really hard because this is something I'm enjoying.
如果这真的对我的生活有负面影响，比如让我寿命缩短几年，我也不在乎。
And if it somehow negatively affects my life, like, takes a few years off my tail end of my life, I don't care.
所以他们就用这种思维模式，比如，我现在可以付出这个代价，因为我不在乎未来的自己。
And so they use these thought patterns of, like, I can pay this price now because I don't care about my future self at some point in time.
所以，这又是一个例子，说明我们有很多文化教育的层次，让我们看不清一个事实，那就是那些东西其实并不能让你快乐。
And so, like, this is, a second example where there's all these layers of cultural education we have which blind us to this reality that actually those things don't make you happy.
所以在我自己的情况里，我是从抑郁状态，到不想再抑郁。
And so in my situation, I was going from depressed to not wanting to be depressed.
这个转变挺好的。
Like, that's a good one.
但从那一步到现在的位置，又是一个很大的跨越。
But then going from there to where I'm at now is another really big leap.
对。
Yep.
所以我当时只是想表达，我不想再……
And so I was just trying to say I don't want to be...
我不想再痛苦和受罪了。
I don't wanna hurt and suffer.
所以一旦你达到某种中立状态，那就是在思考你愿意做出哪些取舍。
So once you get to some kind of neutral state, then that's a contemplation of, what trade offs are you willing to make.
而这就是我走到现在这一步的原因，因为那是我的观察。
And that's when the reason I got where I'm at now is that was the observation.
我们是第一代不会死的人。
We are the first generation who won't die.
一旦你到了那个境界，那就是真的了。
And once you get there, then it's real.
然后你就会觉得，这不是我们在玩的什么游戏。
Then it's like, this isn't some game we're playing.
这就像是银河系里最大的游戏，我们可能不会死，这意味着我对现实的理解方式非常不同。
This is like the biggest game in the galaxy of, like, we we may not die, which means that I understand reality in a very different way.
我真的很想
I definitely want
深入探讨一下。
to dive into that.
但在那之前，我想聊聊这个把健康放在首位的新潮流，以及最近发生的这种转变。我有幸认识几个像你一样已经退出并靠卖公司赚了大钱的人。
But before we get there, I want to talk about this prioritizing health coolness and that shift that has happened recently where I'm privileged to know a few people that have exited and made a lot of money from selling their businesses as you have.
五到十年前，我看到的卖完公司后的自然下一步，总是尽情放纵。
Five or ten years ago the natural next step after selling a business that I always saw was just maximum indulgence.
对。
Yes.
你知道的，就是聚会、吃喝、旅行，各种享受。
You know just party and eat and travel and do this whole thing,
但我看到现在变了，很多人其实放纵得更少，更关心自己了，这才是酷。
And I see that changing where a lot of people are actually indulging less and caring for themselves more and that's what's cool.
对。
Yes.
而且一个Whoop比现在很多手表都酷多了，关心自己，关心生活的质量和长度，这是最大的奢侈之一。
And a whoop is a lot cooler than a lot of watches today and caring for yourself and caring about the quality and length of your life is one of the greatest luxuries.
我觉得你肯定是这股趋势的一部分，但为什么是现在呢？
I think you're a part of that trend growth for sure, but why now?
为什么现在这件事变得这么酷，尤其是对那些有钱有闲的人来说？
And why is this such a cool thing now particularly for people who have the luxuries of time and money?
说到底，人类会对激励做出反应，而现在肥胖已经不再酷了。
I mean ultimately humans respond to incentives and it is currently not cool to be obese.
对。
Yep.
喝酒也不再酷了。
It is not cool to, drink alcohol.
在某些圈子里，抽烟可能也不酷了。
It's seen as though it's not cool to...
但总的来说，抽烟已经不酷了。
I guess in some circles, you know, maybe to smoke, but generally speaking, it's not cool to smoke.
而且我觉得，炫耀生物指标数据才是酷。
And I'd say it is cool to flex biomarkers.
谈论你为健康做了什么，这才是酷。
It is cool to talk about what you're doing for your health.
所以我觉得，人们是在回应文化信号，如果你能说长寿的语言，并且你真的……
So I think humans are responding to cultural signals that you are higher status in your social group and your higher status in society if you can speak the language of longevity, and you actually...
你身体力行，你知道，你的皮肤看起来很好，你有肌肉，你身材好，这确实能带来权力和地位，我觉得人们会对此做出反应。
You embody it, you know, your skin looks great, you have muscle, you're fit, it does really generate power and status, and I think people respond to that.
那你觉得在宏观层面上，有没有什么因素推动了这种趋势？
And do you think anything has happened at a at a macro level to encourage that?
有没有什么技术上的因素？
Anything technologically?
我觉得发生的变化是，健康变得可以量化了。
I think that what's transpired is that health has become measurable.
所以如果一个人外表肥胖，你知道，那对他们来说是个减分项。
And so if someone's outwardly obese, you know, that's a that's a knock on them.
你知道，就像，他们控制不了自己的饮食习惯，所以那……
You know, like, they can't control their own eating habits, and so that's...
这有点像一种羞耻的来源。
It's kinda like a source of shame.
但如果你身材好，比如你相对健康，但内在不健康，没人看得出来。
But if you're fit, like if you're if you're relatively healthy, but you're unhealthy internally, no one sees that.
而现在健康能被如此准确地测量，这就暴露了你内在的不健康。
And the fact that health can now be measured so robustly, it reveals your your inner unhealth.
所以我觉得，基本上，我猜现在健康成了一种衡量标准，如果你不知道自己的健康指标，别人会觉得你不够聪明，而如果你知道，就显得更聪明。
And so I think that, basically, I I would guess that there's been an accounting of health that if you don't know your health markers, you're not viewed as an intelligent as you could be if you knew your health markers.
如果你知道自己的健康指标，而且指标很差，那就……
And if you do know your health markers and they're bad, that's all...
那就像肥胖一样。
That's like kind of like being obese.
如果你……
If you...
现在如果你有健康指标，而且指标很好，那么我猜，当人们能隐藏某些东西时，他们……
Now if you have health markers and you're good, so my my guess is that, when people can hide something that they...
他们就会偷偷摸摸地继续做。
They'll scoot along and do it.
你仍然可以靠装模作样来玩权力和地位的游戏。
You can still play the games of power and status just by faking it.
但现在，假装健康更难了，因为测量技术好太多了。
But right now, it's harder to to fake good health because the technology by measurement is so much better.
所以，你正准备根据朋友的一条短信做一笔交易。
So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text.
但你听谁的？
But which you do you listen to?
是，我们可以在图卢姆买栋房子。
Is it, we could buy a house in Tulum.
买那些期权。
Get optioning those options.
我们可能会失去一切。
We could lose everything.
或者，我们做点研究吧。
Or let's do a little research.
把心思放在交易上，做出适合你自己的投资决定。
Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you.
更多信息请访问 finra.org/tradesmart。
Learn more at finra.org/tradesmart.
那你的旅程就是从那里开始的吗？
And is that where your journey started?
你是从那时开始反思和审视自己的身体，来修复问题的吗？
Did you start that self reflection and examination of your body to fix things?
完全是。
Entirely.
我的意思是，前提是，像大多数人一样，我是靠头脑来生活的。
I mean, the the premise was that, like most humans, I ran my existence by my mind.
你知道，就像，我的头脑想要什么……
You know, like, what are my mind...
我的头脑想要什么？
What does my mind want?
当它看着餐厅菜单的时候，它想吃什么？
When it looks at the menu at the restaurant, what does it want to eat?
当我在想我是否要做这件放纵的事情时，我的头脑告诉我关于我的人生哲学是什么？
And when I think about whether I'm going to do this debaucherous thing, what does my mind tell me about my philosophies of life?
然后我说，头脑并不是身体的好管家。
And I said, the mind is not a good steward of the body.
实际上，我的头脑是我身体的一个非常糟糕的老板。
My mind is actually a really bad boss of my body.
所以我说，好吧，身体。
So I said, alright, body.
你来负责。
You're in charge.
所以我会通过从你那里获取数据来问你想做什么，然后你每天告诉我该做什么和不该做什么。
So I'm gonna ask you what you want to do by getting data from you, and then you're gonna tell me on a daily basis what to do and what not to do.
于是我想，身体……
And so I thought that the body...
比如说，身体在很多方面就像神一样。
Like, the body is God in many ways.
以前你想象的是那种超自然的东西，而现在，承载我们存在的就是我们的身体。
Like, before you you imagine this supernatural thing, and now, like, the thing that houses our existence is our body.
如果没有身体，我们就什么都没有了。
If we don't have our body, we have nothing.
所以我觉得这就像……
And so I think it's been this...
身体一直是……
The body's been this...
在我们现实中，身体被奇怪地忽视，好像它只是肉体。
In this weird, like, almost dismissed thing in our reality where it's like, it's the flesh.
它会腐烂，随着时间推移，你无法阻止。
It decays, and over time, you can't stop it.
所以……
So...
但我觉得如果我们把它提升到神圣的高度，把它看作一件艺术品，看作它本来的那个宏伟的创造，我们对它的看法就会完全改变。
But I think if we elevate it and and imagine it to be sacred and a work of art and beautiful and like this magnificent creation that it is, it just changes how we think about it.
所以对我来说，就是让身体做主，同时意识到我的头脑是个麻烦。
So yeah, for me it was putting my body in charge and realizing that my mind is a menace.
我喜欢你说的完美身体，因为我觉得长寿这个标签和品牌经常被误解，人们以为它意味着不管生活质量如何，只要活得更久就行。
I like that you said perfect the the the body because I think that longevity as a title and as brand for this category is often misinterpreted and people assume it means to live longer no matter the quality of life.
对。
Yes.
而且大多数老人最后身体衰退，状态不好，他们宁愿少活一年，也不愿受那份罪。
And like most old people who end up decaying and not being in great shape before they pass, they sure I'd rather not go through this another year than be in the suffering.
我觉得人们想到活得更久但活得很糟，和活得好，对比起来，就会这么想。
I think people think about that when they assume what living longer in a bad way could look like versus living well.
那么你对完美身体的追求，是为了多活几年，还是为了提高现有生命的生活质量？
So with your desires for this perfect body, is it about added years or increased quality of life for the years that exist?
是为了性感。
It's about be sexy.
好的。
Okay.
要强壮。
Be strong.
做你想做的事。
Do what you want.
所以，即使我们用的这些概念，比如长寿和……
So even even these concepts that we use, like longevity and...
没人在乎。
No one cares.
对。
Yep.
他们只想有吸引力。
They just want to be attractive.
他们想让别人觉得自己有吸引力。
They want others to think they're attractive.
他们想要，你知道的，比如，一副好看的身材。
They wanna have, you know, like, a good looking body.
他们想感觉很好。
They wanna feel great.
他们想睡得好。
They wanna sleep great.
他们想要漂亮的皮肤。
They want beautiful skin.
所以，这就是那种语言。
So, like, that's the language.
这就是人类想要的。
Like, that's what humans want.
现在，长寿是这些东西的副产品，但大多数人想要的就是性感。
Now, longevity is a byproduct of those things, but just be sexy is what most people want.
而且我知道基础是最重要的，远远超过其他。
And I know the fundamentals are the most important by far.
吃好、睡好、锻炼好。
Eat, sleep, exercise well.
而且在此基础上可以叠加的增强手段还有很多。
And the enhancements that can be added on beyond the list is long.
而你在这方面是领头人，你能做的事情太多了。
And you are the leader of the pack with all the things you can do.
如果你今天停掉所有东西，只保留这些基础，你觉得会对你的生物标志物产生显著的负面影响吗？
If you were to stop everything except for the basics today, do you think that would have a significant negative impact on your biomarkers?
我觉得可能会。
I mean probably.
对，健康和养生领域有几个大的流派，其中一个流派非常相信自然疗法。
Yeah, so there's several big camps to health and wellness and there's a big camp that believes in like natural remedies.
他们的想法是，这些方法已经存在了几万年。
Like the idea is that it's been around for, you know, tens of thousands of years.
所以它们经受了时间的考验，因此我们应该采用类似的方法。
Therefore, it's still the test of time, and therefore, we should do something like that.
然后还有一些群体……
And then there's groups...
还有像我这样的人，我们倾向于使用药物，你知道，任何我们能接触到的技术，或者能获取的食物，加上锻炼，再加上药物之类的东西，我们都接受。
There's people like me who we'd lean into medications, you know, any any kind of technology we can get our access or get access to food, plus exercise, plus pharma kind of stuff, we embrace.
所以我们说过，我们不会因为任何方式而评判任何干预措施。
And so we have said that we don't judge any intervention by any modality.
如果有效，那就是有效。
If it works, it works.
所以对我们来说，目标基本上是努力创造一项新的世界纪录，一项关于人类能做到什么的独特成就，因此我们会全力以赴。
And so for for us, the goal is trying to basically establish a new world record, a new singular accomplishment on what can be done, and therefore, we just pull out all the stops.
所以我们并不是想追求一般的健康，或者像……
So it's not like we're trying to be generally healthy or, like, of...
比如，大致健康。
Like, roughly healthy.
而是我们想要完美的健康，这是一个非常大胆的尝试，因为我们可能仍然处于理解生物学和长寿的非常早期阶段。
It's like we want to have perfect health, and that's a pretty bold endeavor because we still probably are in the very early days of understanding biology and longevity.
但是……
But...
所以，这就是我们一直在做的事情，因为我们想要……
So that's what we've done in doing that because we wanted to...
很多人在遇到这种情况时，不知道从哪里找到动力。
A lot of people in in encountering this, a lot of people don't know where to find the motivation.
所以，如果看起来很棒是……
So if, like, looking great is what...
你知道，很多人认同的目标。除此之外，他们不太确定为什么要努力。
You know, the objective a lot of people align with, Outside of that, they're not quite sure why do you try.
因为如果他们反正都会衰老和死亡，真的值得这么麻烦吗？
Because if they're going to age and die anyways, is it really worth all the hassle?
我想给大家一个动力，告诉他们这真的值得。
And I'm trying to get people a motivation to say it's really worth it.
你可以显著地改变你的感受，真的，非常明显。
You can you can meaningfully change how you feel, like, significantly.
所以我想制造这种对比，让大家觉得，好吧。
And that's why I wanna create this contrast where people are like, okay.
以前我觉得可能有点价值，但现在我完全投入了，因为你真的能取得很大的进步。
Before, I thought, like, maybe worth a little bit, but now I'm I'm into it because you really can make big gains.
所以我更想改变的是人们对健康的看法，以及为什么值得认真去做。
So I'm trying to change more than anything the perception around health and why it's worth doing to a meaningful degree.
不仅仅是……
Not just...
我不是在提倡那种敷衍了事的方式。
I'm not arguing for a laxatives approach.
我提倡的是对健康保持一种非常积极、充满活力的态度，真的每一层都值得。
I'm arguing a very robust energetic disposition towards health that it really is worth it at every every layer.
而且，预防的重要性有多大，
And how much stronger is
相比之下，等人出了问题再去解决，或者指望技术进步到能解决一切，
the prioritization of prevention than fixing the problem once someone gets there and hoping for the progression of technology to come so far that
因为我知道你是个技术乐观主义者。
Because I know you are a technological optimist.
你相信世界上很多问题都会被超级智能解决。
You believe that a lot of the world's problems will be solved by superintelligence.
如果这恰好是能被解决的问题之一呢？
What if this is one of those problems that could be solved?
所以你看，实际上我觉得这里最有趣的模式在于你的提问，你准确地指出了人们思维中的障碍，这些障碍阻碍了他们……
So you see like actually, I think the most interesting pattern here is in your questions, correctly identifying the thought patterns people have that are the barrier for them to be...
做出正确的健康决策。
To make good health decisions.
所以你刚才问的这个问题，人们是怎么想的呢？我有一些朋友就这么说，比如某些朋友说，我已经不再为健康做任何事了，因为AI来了以后会解决一切。
So this latest question you asked, the way people process that, and I have friends who say this, like certain friends who said, I've stopped doing things for my health because AI is gonna solve it when it's here.
对。
Yep.
有个人说，我不再涂防晒霜了，因为等AI来了，它会修复我所有的晒伤，这也许是真的。
One person said I stopped wearing sunscreen because when AI comes, it's gonna fix all my sun damage, and that may be true.
但我想说的是，这种心理其实是我们人类作为一个物种问题的根源。如果我们把同样的逻辑套用，比如‘我要污染地球，因为AI会解决它’，或者‘我们允许国家之间开战、互相残杀，因为AI会来收拾残局’，那问题就大了。
And the the point I'm trying to make, though, is that the psychology behind that is actually the root of our problem as a species, is if we apply that same theory of, like, I'm gonna pollute the Earth because AI is just gonna fix it, or, we're gonna we're going to allow nation states to go to war with each other and kill each other because, like, AI that come and fix it.
如果这成为我们处理问题的方式，我们的处境只会变得更糟。
If that becomes the way of managing our problems, we make our situation worse.
我想说的是，更健康的态度应该是，我们现在就解决它，不仅仅是因为这对你现在有好处，而且这也是我们人类在这个时刻所处位置的一种更大哲学的一部分。
And I'm trying to suggest the more healthy disposition is for us to say, we are gonna solve it right now, not just because it it actually is beneficial for you now, but that is part of this larger philosophy of where we're at as a species in this moment.
但你可以看到，我个人在这个努力中最大的敌人，就是人类一生中接受的那些根深蒂固的观念，而这些……
But you can see that the the biggest foe I personally have in this endeavor is all the baked in ideas that humanity has accepted for their entire lifetimes, and this...
这些观念挑战了它们，而他们看不到这些观念实际上是阻碍。
These ideas challenge them, and they can't see that they're actual blockers.
我们人类在这个时刻处于什么位置？
Where are we as a species in this moment?
我觉得当……
I think when...
如果我们能挺过这个时刻，未来的人写这段历史的时候，我想他们可能会说，这是这个星球上所有智能生命存在中最辉煌的时刻。
If we can survive this moment and future generations are writing the equivalent of history books about this moment, I think it's possible that they say that this was the most spectacular moment in all of intelligent existence on this planet.
就是从人类智能过渡到数字智能，这个过渡时刻是全新的东西……
That when you're transitioning from human based intelligence to digital intelligence and there's this transition moment to something new that...
而且这个过渡很危险。
And and it's perilous.
我们能不能顺利度过这个阶段，还不清楚。
It's not clear whether we're gonna make it through this.
所以我觉得，这激动人心到我们无法想象，如果我们能看清自己身处这个历史时刻，我们会……
And so I think that it's exciting beyond our ability to see that if we saw ourselves in this historical moment, we would be...
我们会以完全不同的能量来行动，而不是像现在这样。
We would we would behave with such different energy than right now.
我们隐约知道有事要发生，很多人也感觉到了，但我们的态度好像还是维持现状，觉得事情会发生，我旁观就好，而不是主动去参与。
We kind of know things something's going on, a lot of people know something's going on, but it feels very much like we bring status quo like energy to it where it's like it's gonna happen and I'm going to observe it versus a very active approach engaging with it.
我环顾你的家，发现这里其实比我想象的要更传统、更模拟化，我这么说完全是出于尊重，没想到一个这么热衷AI和科技未来主义的人，家里会是这样的。
As I look around your home I see that it's actually a lot more analog, I mean that fully respectfully, than I expected from someone who's so AI and so much of tech futurist.
这是你为了健康和日常作息做的明确选择吗？
Is that a clear decision for your health and your routine?
是的，这个房子的布局就是，凡是可能导致死亡的因素，我们都尽量控制。
Yeah, the way this house is organized is everything that causes death, we try to control.
比如你喝的水，经过特殊过滤，能产生……
So the water you drink is filtered in a special way that produces...
我们每个月都会测量，监控这些指标。
And we measure it every month to monitor those parameters.
我们呼吸的空气，经过精细净化，每个房间都有监测。
The air we're breathing, is finely purified and measure in every room.
这些窗户有防紫外线涂层……
These windows have UV protectant...
能阻挡99%的UVA和UVB。
99% protection from UVA, UVB.
所以你看不见这些东西，但它们是无时无刻不在影响你身体的无形力量。
So you you can't see these things, but these are the invisible forces that are affecting your biology in any given moment.
而我家里能有的那些科技，其实对我的身体改变很小。
Whereas the technology I could have in this house does very little to actually change my biology.
事实上，可能还会让情况更糟。
And in fact, it might even make it worse.
更多的屏幕，更多的这个，那个。
More screens, more this, more that.
所以除了特定的用途，我不怎么用科技产品。
So I don't use a lot of technology outside of specific...
我的……
My...
比如在我的诊所里，我用了很多科技设备。
In my clinic, for example, I have a lot of technology.
但如果它的目的不是为了延长寿命，或者提高我的健康水平，
But if it doesn't have the objective of of extending lifespan, it lowers of increasing my health.
让我这么说吧。
Let me say that.
它被放在家里的可能性就会降低。
It lowers in its likelihood of being in the house.
好的。
Fine.
那阳光中的UVA和UVB对我们到底有多大的危害呢？
So how bad is sun exposure for us in UVA and UVB?
其实没那么严重。
It's it's not it's not bad.
只是晒太阳是个权衡利弊的事情。
It's just that the sun is a trade off.
阳光对你是有好处的。
So the sun is good for you.
它对健康有各种积极的影响。
It has all kinds of positive health benefits.
只是它也有代价。
It just is that it has a cost.
它会损伤皮肤，而且这是可以检测到的。
It causes damage to skin, and you can measure this.
其实你可以用一项叫多光谱成像的技术，去测量并观察紫外线造成的损伤。
You can actually use this technology called multispectral imaging, and you can measure it and look at UV damage.
所以，会发生什么，其实非常清楚。
So it's very clear, what happens.
所以你就是……
So you're just in...
我经常被人批评，因为我不怎么晒太阳。
I get a lot of, flak because I don't spend a lot of time in the sun.
正因为这样，有些人就很不喜欢我，因为他们坚信太阳是世上最重要的东西。
And because of that, people hate me because they have such a firm belief that the sun is the most important thing in existence.
如果他们这么想，那也挺好。
And if they do, that's great.
我鼓励他们去晒太阳，这很棒。
I encourage them to be in the sun, and that's wonderful.
我想说的是，他们不承认的另一面是，太阳会造成损伤，而我不想做这个交换。
I'm saying that the flip side of the argument, which they don't acknowledge, is that the sun causes damage, and I don't wanna make that trade off.
这就像喝酒一样，你是在接受那种伤害。
So this is the same thing as if you drink alcohol, you're accepting that damage.
如果你抽烟，你也是在接受那种伤害。
If you smoke, you're accepting the damage.
所以这其实是一种类似的伤害评估和权衡。
So it's it's a similar damage assessment and trade off space.
我只是想说，我清楚它给我带来的伤害。
And so I'm just saying that I'm aware of the damage that it caused me.
我能实际测量到，所以我选择不做这种交换。
I can practically measure it, therefore I choose not to make that trade off.
当然。
For sure.
你觉得人们通过优化居住地，在全国层面甚至城市层面，能获得多大的优势？
How much of an edge do you think people can have by optimizing for the place they live on a national level or even on an urban level?
因为我知道你住在洛杉矶，我觉得那是个我不会选择的地方，因为空气质量、水质还有其他一些因素。
Because I know you live in Los Angeles, I find to be a choice I wouldn't expect because of the air quality and maybe the the water quality and different things.
你觉得人们搬到像瑞士这样的地方，会不会有显著的竞争优势？
Do you think people can have a significant edge by moving to somewhere like like Switzerland?
有可能。
Possibly.
所以呢……
So it...
比如我选择住在洛杉矶，是有几个原因的。
Like I I chose to live in LA for a few reasons.
其实这是我七年前做的决定。
It was actually a decision I made seven years ago.
当时我卖掉了我的公司，Braintree Venmo，那家公司是我在芝加哥创立的。
So I I had sold my company, Braintree Venmo, and I built that company in Chicago.
我们在旧金山有办公室，然后我在弗吉尼亚住了一两年。
We had offices in San Francisco, and then I then lived in Virginia for a year or two.
我住过纽约，然后是旧金山，最后是洛杉矶。
I lived in New York and then San Francisco and then LA.
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当时，我主要想优化两件事。
And at the time, I was trying to optimize for two things.
一个是我在创办一家脑机接口公司，所以我在考虑是做侵入式的，把芯片植入大脑，还是做非侵入式的。
One is I was building a a brain implant interface company, and so I was trying to figure out whether to do invasive to implant a chip in the brain or to do something noninvasive.
我当时不确定我们会走哪条路，所以我需要一些灵活性。
And I didn't know which path we are going to take, and I needed some flexibility.
所以在2017年做这个决定的时候，美国其实只有四个市场有足够的人才和机构密度来支持这件事。
And so in doing that in 2017, there are only really four markets in The US that had the talent and the density of institutions to do this.
那就是波士顿、纽约、旧金山或者洛杉矶。
It was Boston, New York, San Francisco, or LA.
很难找到……
It was hard to find...
你不能去……
You couldn't go...
去二线或三线城市很难找到足够的工程师，因为你需要的工程师在多个不同领域都非常专业。
It's harder to go to a second tier or third tier market and find the density of engineers because you need engineers that are very specialized in a whole bunch of different areas.
所以这就是为什么我要去那些不同的市场。
And so that's why I was going to those different markets.
我在纽约住过一段时间，旧金山和洛杉矶也一样。
I lived in New York for a a while, same with San Francisco and the same with Los Angeles.
然后我第二个想优化的方面是，我当时真的……
And then the second thing I was trying to optimize for is that I was really...
在我……
While I was...
我之前做过深科技的风险投资，比如合成生物学和基因组学，然后我在做这个内核公司，同时我还在追求一个想法，就是我想找到一个在25世纪的人看来仍然有意义的东西。
I had done this this venture investing into deep tech, like synthetic biology and genomics, and then I was doing this kernel company, I was also pursuing this idea that I wanted to try to find an idea that would be relevant in the in the eyes of those that exist in the twenty fifth century.
我想试着在几百年的时间尺度上玩转现实。
I wanted to kind of try to play reality on a few 100 year time scale.
为了做到这一点，我想……
And to do that, I wonder...
我想我需要找到一些非常新颖的东西。
I I imagined I need to find something very novel.
在考察了纽约和波士顿之后……
And in sampling New York and Boston...
波士顿其实也有条件能诞生一家脑机接口公司。
And Boston's also a market that could have built a brain interface company.
不过那里实在太冷了。
It's just way too cold, though.
还有，我刚才说的另一个原因。
And, also, what the other drop I said.
但我意识到……
But I I realized...
所以我当时在分析这些地方，每个地方都有一种很强的社会风气，影响着人们的想法和喜好。
So I was trying to analyze these areas, and each one of these areas, there's a there's a very strong social zeitgeist on how people think and what they're into.
而我并没有……
And I didn't...
我基本上得出结论，洛杉矶是所有可能居住的地方中最开放的一个。
I I basically concluded that Los Angeles was the most open of all possible places I could live.
那会对我自己的想法干扰最少，给我最大的发挥空间。
That would be the least intrusive on my own thoughts and give me the most space to play.
所以我选了洛杉矶。
And that's why I chose LA.
其实，也不是我选的洛杉矶。
Well, I didn't choose LA.
那时候我对长寿还没什么兴趣，所以也不是我决定的。
I wasn't into longevity at that time, so I didn't decide it.
现在我在洛杉矶算是安了家。
And then now I've kinda built a home here.
我们有很多朋友在这里，所以情况就不一样了。
We have a lot of friends, so it's a different calculation.
如果我要……
If I would...
如果纯粹为了长寿来选择，那情况就完全不同了。
Choosing based upon longevity alone, it would be a different calculation.
所以，是的，我对此持开放态度，但我在这里是因为之前的思维模式。
So, yeah, I'm open to it, but that's I'm here because of a previous thought pattern.
好吧。
Fine.
而且作为
And as part of
你提到的那个思维模式，关于和朋友出去玩，我尽量早睡，有些朋友说这是反社会的行为，因为他们在有空的时候我不能陪他们。
that thought pattern you mentioned hanging out with friends, I try my best to sleep as early as I can, and some of my friends call that antisocial behavior because I can't hang out with them when they're free to hang out.
这对你来说是什么样的？
How does that look for you?
是的，这又是，这就像是介于我们和健康之间的第七个思维模式。
Yeah, this is again, this is like number seven thought pattern that is in between us and health.
所以朋友们假设的是，生活似乎无法被安排好。
So the assumption that friends are making is that life cannot somehow be organized.
好像在不晚的时候出去玩是不可能的。
Like it's a impossibility to hang out at times that are not late.
晚上好。
Evening.
但事实并非如此。
But that's actually not true.
我们在生活中其实随时都可以做各种事情，不一定非得在某个时间。
Like we do things in life all the time at different times of the day.
这完全是可以做到的。
It is entirely possible.
只是有时候跟社会主流的文化习惯不太一致。
It's just that it's sometimes not aligned with mass societal cultural things.
所以这其实是优先级的问题，而不是无法克服的困难。
And so really is a a lack of priority and not an insurmountable problem.
这就是我们建立“不要死”社区的原因，因为很多人确实想选择健康，但感觉朋友不支持他们。
And this is why we build the Don't Die community is that a lot of people do want to choose health, and they don't feel supported by their friends.
而且他们有时会非常……
And they sometimes get a really...
他们会因此遇到很多麻烦。
They get a lot of trouble for it.
他们……
They...
比如吃药、锻炼、冷水浴或桑拿，或者做其他什么，所有这些小细节都会被人说三道四。
All the little nuances of if they take pills, for example, or they choose to work out, or they do cold plunge or sauna, or, like, take whatever thing the person's doing.
他们会被人调侃一下，而且如果他们在意吃的东西，在餐厅里也会这样。
They get ribbed for it a little bit, and if they, you know, they're mindful of what they eat, the restaurant.
所以人们有很多方面会……
So there's just so many vectors for people to...
而且这……
And it...
就是……
It's just...
我觉得现在的情况是，大多数人都知道要做出什么样的决定才能保持健康。
I think what's happening is, most people know what kind of decisions they need to have to have good health.
当有人偏离那种做法时，会让他们感到不舒服，因为他们知道那才是正确的决定，但他们不想面对这一点。
And when someone deviates from that approach, it makes them feel uncomfortable because they know that's the correct decision, but they don't want to reconcile with that.
然后朋友会指出这种行为，他们就会感到非常不自在，所以他们最好的应对方式就是试图让你停止这种健康的行为，因为对他们来说，选择不健康而不是健康，让他们很难受。
And the friend calls them out on the behavior, and then they feel very uncomfortable, and so the best way they can deal with it is by trying to get you to stop that health forward behavior, because it's it's uncomfortable for them to exist in deciding to choose bad health over good health.
就像那种同伴压力，为什么那个不喝酒的人不喝？
Like the peer pressure of why is the sober guy not drinking?
对，就是这样。
Yeah, exactly.
这让每个人都感到不舒服。
It makes everyone feel uncomfortable.
我觉得这就是为什么我会招来那么多强烈的仇恨，因为我的决定和社会规范相悖，这让人们感到非常不舒服。
I think that's why I generate like so much intense hate is I think that my decisions are in contrast to the social norms and it makes people feel very uncomfortable.
我上网的时候也故意做同样的事情。
I try to do the same thing online intentionally.
我的整个页面都是建立在我创造的这个虚构角色上的，这个角色在某些方面给出好建议，但在很多方面体现了我希望人们改变的习惯。
My entire page is built on this fictional character that I coined who basically in some ways gives good advice but in many ways embodies the habits that I'd love to see people change.
我在网上也试着做同样的事情。
I try to do the same online.
不错。
Cool.
我的意思是，你现在做的项目，比如 Project Blueprint 和 Don't Die，这些是你先为自己解决了问题之后才创立的项目和运动，因为你希望别人也能获得你在自我提升中感受到的那些好处，还是说你先有了这个想法，然后把自己当作小白鼠，为了全人类去试验？
I mean with businesses that you're working on today with Project Blueprint and with Don't Die, are they businesses that you and movements that you coined after solving for yourself because you want other people to have the same rewards that you felt on working on yourself or is it a project that you ideated first and you're using yourself as your kind of guinea pig for the sake of the rest of humanity?
两者都有。
Both.
目标是
The goal would
大概在2027年或2028年，或者你知道，甚至像2030年，就在未来几年内。
be something like in 2027 or 2028 or, you know, even, like, twenty twenty thirty, it's, like, somewhere in the next couple years.
如果大约80%的人齐声说，我们现在不想死。
If something like 80% of humanity said in unison, we don't wanna die right now.
就像，现在世界上发生的所有疯狂的事情，我们就是不想死。
Like, all like, all the crazy stuff happening in the world right now, we just don't wanna die.
所以这就是全世界对新冠疫情的回应。
And so that's what the world said in response to COVID.
这就是为什么我们反应这么快。
And that's why we had such a quick reaction.
所有的封锁、口罩和疫苗都来了。
All the lockdowns happened, and the masks, and vaccines.
不管你怎么看这些事，全世界基本上一致表示：我们现在不想死。
Say what you will about those things, but the world basically said in unison, we don't wanna die right now.
那很酷，因为我们看到全球各地的人们基本上都团结一致行动。
And that was cool because we saw people act in unison across the globe mostly for the most part.
比如，这个……
Like, this...
我们想搞清楚情况。
We wanna figure out the situation.
而且我想……
And I want...
我觉得人工智能的进步会给我们人类带来一个非常相似的局面。
I think AI progress is going to create a very similar situation for us humans.
它会发展得非常快，而且是以我们难以理解的方式，这会让人非常不安。
It's gonna be moving very fast and in ways we can't quite comprehend, and it's gonna be very unsettling.
在那一刻，我们会恐慌，我们会说，我不知道该信任谁了。
And in that moment, we're gonna panic, and we're gonna say, I no longer know who do I trust.
是信任政府，还是信任人工智能？
Is it my government, or is it the AI?
当我接收到信息时，这些信息来自谁？
When I'm being fed information, who's it from?
是人工智能还是人类？
Is it the AI or humans?
而且，我们只是……
And, again, we're just...
我们将无法辨别该信任哪个现实。
We're not gonna be able to discern what reality we trust anywhere.
那么现在……
And now...
所以如果你把这一点放大了看，退一步说，好吧。
So if you take that and you back up and you say, okay.
现在你做什么，才能让人类能够……
Now what do you do right now that allows humans to be...
齐声说，我们不想死，我们希望世界真正支持生命，那么这一切始于一个个人习惯，比如我说按时睡觉是个好主意。
To say in unison, we we don't wanna die, and we want the world to actually support life, then it begins with a personal habit where I say going to bed on time is a good idea.
即使你还没完成作业，这也是正确的选择。
Even if you haven't finished your homework, it's the correct idea.
对。
Yep.
然后你把你我们讨论过的所有事情都考虑进去，这些决定就会产生连锁反应，比如……
And you take all the things we talked about, and those decisions then have this domino effect where...
然后你说，好吧。
Then you say, okay.
污染地球可不是个好主意。
Polluting the earth is not a good idea.
现在不行，也别指望人工智能来收拾这个烂摊子。
Not now and not even expecting AI to clean this up.
然后你继续往下推，最后我们会说，设计人工智能让它和人类一起不死是很有道理的，而且我们也确实应该承认，我们在和所有形式的死亡作斗争。
And you keep on going down the line, and then finally, we say it makes a lot of sense to engineer AI to Don't Die with humans, and it makes sense that we actually say we are at war with death in all of its forms.
所以，我们选择生命，高于一切。
And therefore, we choose life over all things.
所以这就是我在做的事情——它既是生意，也是哲学，是宗教，是国家，是一切。
And so that's what I'm trying to do is it's it's a business, it's a philosophy, it's a religion, it's a nation state, it's everything.
就像怎么让整个人类物种步调一致地前进，这就是我们努力的方向。
It's like how do you move the species to march to the same cadence, and that's what we're trying to do.
所以这一切都是同时发生的。
So it's all things happening simultaneously.
那么，有没有某个特定的年龄或人生经历，你觉得有助于让人跟上你认为合适的步伐？
And is there a particular age or life experience that you think is helpful to be able to march at the cadence that you think is appropriate?
有几类人特别能接受“不要死”这个理念。
There's a few archetypes that respond really well to Don't Die.
一类是五六十岁的人。
One is people in their fifties, sixties.
他们开始感受到衰老带来的衰退，知道身体逐渐垮掉是什么感觉……
They're beginning to experience aging decline, and they know what it feels like for the body to fall apart...
身体和心智都在衰退，而他们对此有极强的动力。
Body and mind to fall apart, and they are incredibly motivated.
另一类是那些有过濒死体验的人，比如经历过健康危机或其他类似的事情，他们珍惜生命到了一种极致，真的非常感激自己还活着。
Another group, those who've had near death experiences, either, you know, with a with a health scare or something else, they just value life with this intensity where they really, really appreciate that they're alive.
还有年轻人，他们听到这些想法，会觉得这太棒了。
And then younger people, they hear these ideas, and they're like, this is banger.
简直燃爆了。
Like, this is fire.
这直击人心。
This this hits.
这能解释现实。
This makes sense of reality.
我觉得错失的人群是二十多岁中后期、三十多岁，甚至四十出头的人，他们身体还行，而且专注于其他目标，比如事业野心之类的，他们会觉得，我愿意少活十年，来换取那些东西。
Where I find the the miss is people who are in their mid to late twenties, thirties, and even early forties where their health is okay, and they're locked in on other games like ambition or something else, where they're like, I'm willing to live ten years less in exchange for whatever trade off they're making.
我还发现，我们去印度和中国的时候，他们对这个理念非常买账。
I also find that when we went to India and China, they ate this up.
他们认为这非常合理。
They thought this is so sensible.
这确实对我们作为一个物种如何应对这种情况很有启发。
This actually makes a lot of sense on how we deal with this situation as a species.
而在美国，个人主义很盛行。
Whereas in America, there's a lot of individualism.
你知道吗？
You know?
很多美国人会有点不屑一顾。
A lot of Americans are kinda like f off.
你知道，就像，别告诉我该怎么做。
You know, like, don't tell me what to do.
别踩我。
Don't tread on me.
所以美国人非常叛逆，但印度和亚洲文化非常支持。
So Americans are very defiant, but Indian and Asian cultures were very supportive.
所以我……
So I...
就像，现在我已经讲这个讲得够久了。
It's like now I've I've spoken about this for long enough.
我知道这种典型反应，而且这种反应太可预测了。
I know the archetype, and the and the response just it's so predictable.
你告诉我你的典型反应，我就能准确说出你会怎么看待这些
You tell me the archetype, I'll tell exactly how you're gonna think about these
想法。
ideas.
好吧。
Fine.
那你觉得有没有什么通过权威来快速增长的窍门，能帮我们发展得更快？
And are there any scale hacks through authority that you think could help us grow a lot faster as well?
比如教育方面的？
Like education possibly?
我们正在寻找那些增长因素。
We're trying to find those growth factors.
我觉得潜力最大的那些往往是不太严肃的。
The the ones I think that have the highest potential are the nonserious ones.
就是那种“要性感”的理念。
So it's this idea of be sexy.
就像如果某件事……
It's like if something...
比如，如果金·卡戴珊是“不要死”的倡导者，那基本上就是“要好看”的意思。
Like, if Kim Kardashian was basically a proponent of Don't Die, it was just like, look good.
这确实很能引起共鸣。
That really resonates.
还有像，你知道的，捐糖。
And something like, you know, donate sugar.
那对你不好。
That's bad for you.
这里有一条通过表情包传播的路径，你知道，那非常有力。
There's a path here with memes, you know, that that's very powerful.
但我觉得，那些本质上严肃的事情，影响力可能有限。
But I would say, like, things that are serious in nature have, I think, a limited reach.
不过，我也觉得，立法可能也有用。
But also, I think, like, legislation could also be useful.
立法非常实用。
Legislation is like very functional.
但就是很难，比如说，如果我们说禁止酒精因为它有害，那真是个糟糕的主意。
But it's just very hard to like for example, if we say let's outlaw alcohol because it's bad, that's a really bad idea.
你不想非得去动员大家。
You don't want to have to rally people.
你想让人们不喝酒，是因为这样能提升他们的地位和权力。
You want to get people to not drink alcohol because it improves their status and power.
所以你真的应该从正面宣传入手，而不是去打击负面。
So you really want to come to the front door of making a positive pitch than trying to take, you know, go after the negative.
其实，我确实看到桑拿和冷水浴正在发生这种情况。
I mean, actually see that happening with saunas and cold plunges.
现在它自带一种光环，就是一件很酷的事情。
It has this status that comes with it now of it's just a cool thing to do.
这是成功人士会做的事。
It's a thing successful people do.
我觉得把保持好身材、照顾好自己这件事变得光鲜亮丽，才是扩大影响力的关键。对。
I think the glamorization of being in good shape taking care of yourself is the hack to scale Yeah.
因为
For
我想如果有人在做什么冷水浴或者桑拿之类的，你大概可以，拿着秒表，一见到他们就开始计时，看看他们多久会告诉你他们在做冷水浴。
I would imagine if somebody is doing something like cold plunging or like sauna, you can probably, with a with a stopwatch, the moment you meet them, start it and just clock the time it takes them to tell you they're cold plunging.
他们肯定会说的。
They're doing it.
百分之百。
Like 100%.
所以这真是……
So it's a...
这真的非常强大。
It's really, really powerful.
这是一种社交信号。
It's a social signaler.
确实如此。
It's true.
所以你大概……
And so you probably...
要找到什么在文化上流行，你只需要观察新互动中出现的词汇，以及它们出现的时机，然后你就能得到哪些想法最能提升地位、提升得最快的排名。
To find, like, what is culturally on point, you just need to watch the word mapping of what's dropped on new interactions and when and then you get the status ranking of what ideas increase status the most and the fastest.
作为我日常工作的一部分，我必须研究我的受众的生活方式和模式，而他们恰好是世界上最富有的一些人。
As part of my day to day job, I have to study the lifestyles and patterns of my audience who happen to be some of the world's wealthiest people.
我注意到一个越来越明显的趋势：人们旅行时不再追求放纵，而是更注重自我照顾，从去美丽的健康诊所，到旅行时打匹克球、做桑拿和冷水浴，而不是去俱乐部、喝酒和做那些其他事情。
And I'm seeing this growing pattern of people doing less indulgence and more self care with their trips and from going to beautiful health clinics to even traveling and playing paddle and doing sauna and cold plunges instead of traveling, going to clubs and drinking and doing all those different things.
我还注意到，这也带来了炫耀的资本，而且在这个圈子里，这种炫耀第一次是积极的。
And I'm noticing that it also comes with bragging rights that for the first time in that community are actually positive.
我认为，富人炫耀他们做富人做的事情，对社会来说通常一直是一件相当糟糕的事情，但现在这种炫耀其实相当不错，因为那个沉迷于桑拿和冷水浴、总是忍不住谈论它的人，实际上是在鼓励积极的行为。
I think that the brag of rich people doing rich things was always like a pretty awful thing for society generally but now the brag is actually pretty good because the guy who's addicted to saunas and cold plunge who can't stop talking about it is actually encouraging positive behaviors.
我觉得
I think
这个趋势的方向是，健康正在被当作一种地位信号来传播，而我认为接下来会发展到的方向是某些生物标志物。
where this is going is that directionally so health is being broadcasted as a status signal, and I think where we're going next is that certain biomarkers.
所以现在，会是……
So right now, it would be...
你可以说一些比较抽象的东西，比如我洗冷水澡或者我做桑拿。
You can say things at the abstraction layer, like I cold plunge or I sauna.
下一层就会聊到像你的衰老速度这样的东西。对。
The next layer is gonna be talking about things like your speed of aging Mhmm.
就是看DNA甲基化时钟。
That looking at DNA methylation clocks.
你知道，你有一个数字，或者能很流利地说出你的生物标志物，比如我的胆固醇数值是多少，我的斑块评分是多少。
You know, you you have a number or speaking about your biomarkers with a certain level of fluency, like my cholesterol numbers are blank, and my, you know, plaque score is blank.
所以就是再深入一层。
So just like one layer deeper
是的。
Yep.
这不仅能表明他们实践健康，还能表明他们测量健康。
Where it shows not only do they practice health, but they measure health.
再下一层就是某种比较和排行榜了。
And then the next layer is on some kind of comparison and leaderboard.
这是我几年前做的事情，当时我想吸引那些关注健康和养生的人，但问题是每个人都能说自己做了什么，并且获得同样的尊重。
This is what I did several years ago where I was trying to appeal to people who were engaged in health and wellness, but the problem was everybody could say what they were doing and earn the same level of respect.
但这并没有区分出，实际上有办法判断谁的做法更有效。
But that didn't tease out that there were actually ways to discern who was actually more efficacious than what they were doing.
所以我创建了rejuvenationolympics.com，一个排行榜，人们可以用这些DNA甲基化时钟来竞争最低的衰老速度。
And so I created the rejuvenationolympics.com, a leaderboard where people can compete for the lowest speed of aging using these, DNA methylation clocks.
好的。
Okay.
这个活动已经持续了好几年，人们对它非常狂热。
And so it's been going on for several years now, and people have gone nuts over this.
就像，一旦你创造了一项运动，并且有了排行榜和……
Like, anytime you create a sport and you create a leaderboard and...
有了积分，人类就会变得有点疯狂。
Where you have points, humans kinda go crazy.
所以这是一个非常成功的项目，大家都在全力竞争。
So it's been this unbelievably successful endeavor where, people are all out competing.
所以我觉得，接下来大家可能真的会为了地位去比拼生物标志物。
And so I think that's probably where the steps to next is people are are legitimately competing on biomarkers for status.
而你在排行榜上排第一。
And you're number one on the leaderboard.
是的。
I am.
而且一直如此。
And always have been.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
其实，我之前……
Actually, I was...
我还没有……
I haven't...
有一段时间，我不是第一名。
For a while, I haven't been number one.
这就是关键所在。
This is the whole point.
哇。
Wow.
就像我创建这个是为了说，基本上，我们开辟的是一种保持健康的方式，对。
It's like I created this to say, basically, what we've carved out is a way to be healthy Yeah.
但当然，还有其他方式。
But certainly, there's other ways too.
所以我想做一个排行榜。
And so I wanna make a leaderboard.
当你登上排行榜时，邀请就是分享你的方案。
And so when you get on the leaderboard, the invitation is share your protocol.
所以教育整个社区，让大家了解你在做什么，这样每个人都能进步。
So educate the entire community on what you're doing so everybody improves.
当然，大多数人都会把一切都保密。
And of course, like most people keep everything a secret.
就像你预料的那样，因为他们想保持自己的竞争优势。
As you might expect, because they're trying to retain their competitive edge.
但是……
But...
所以有好几年……
So for several...
大概在过去一年左右，我一直不是第一名。
For, like, the past year or so, I haven't been number one.
所以我们一直在非常努力地工作。
So we've been working very hard at it.
所以……
And so...
所以这很棒，因为它真的鼓励了量化竞争，这样你就能看出谁是最好的。
So it's been great in that it really encouraged quantified competition so you can tell who's the best.
所以，是的，我现在是世界第一。
So, yeah, I'm currently number one in the world.
有六千人在激烈竞争这个目标。
There's 6,000 people who are intensely competing for this objective.
关于这个，我特别想知道的是……
I mean, the one thing I would love to know about that...
在那个排行榜上，我不知道它是否在上面，是否可以被量化，但我非常好奇生物钟和衰老速度与投入时间和金钱的比例关系。同意。
On that leaderboard, I don't know if it's if it's on there, if it can be quantified, but I'm very curious about biological clock and speed of aging in proportion to time spent and dollars spent as Agreed.
我猜会有一个点，投入很多钱但效果越来越小，而达到80%效果的那个最佳点，可能对全世界更有启发意义。
I assume there's a point where it gets very expensive to have like less of an impact and the sweet spot of like the 80% prior can be incredibly inspiring to more of the world.
是的，这也揭示了，它也显示了基因天赋。
Yeah, it also has revealed, it does that also, it shows genetically gifted.
好吧。
Fine.
所以它显示了一些人只是心血来潮就参与进来。是的。
So it shows some people who participate on a whim Yep.
而且他们付出的努力非常少。
And they do very minimal efforts.
比如，他们只是……
Like, they have...
你知道，他们尽量吃得健康，但有时候也会吃快餐。对。
You know, they try to eat well, but, like, sometimes they're eating fast food Fine.
有时候锻炼，但并不是很规律。是的。
Sometimes work out, but not really regularly Yeah.
而他们的衰老速度评分却名列前茅。
And they have one of the better speed of aging scores.
所以从这个角度看……
And so it does in that way...
这就回到了之前讲的那个故事，我有一个叔叔，他做了这个做了那个，所以我也应该能做到。
In that going back to the story before of, I have an uncle who blank and blank and blank, and therefore I should too.
这就把问题挑明了。
That teases out
对。
Yep.
从这一个维度的测量来看，你的基因决定了你衰老的速度是快还是慢。
From this one dimensional measurement, what are your genetics in terms of how fast or how slow you're aging?
这样就能告诉他们，也许每天威士忌、抽烟、吃一整块巧克力的做法并不适合你。
So that then can inform them, maybe it's not a good idea for you to follow the whiskey smoking whole bar chocolate everyday protocol.
那可能不是你的风格。
And that may not be your jam.
当然。
For sure.
所以，是的，它……
So, yeah, it it...
好处有很多层。
There's so many layers of benefits.
所以，是的，我想你的听众会从社交信号开始，然后熟悉各种指标，再到在指标上竞争，他们……
So, yeah, I I would imagine your audience is going to step from social signaling to fluency with markers to competing on markers that they...
像我一样，他们公布自己的指标，说，看，我现在的状态就是这样。
Like me, they publish their markers and say, here's where I'm at.
然后，就像……
And, like, it's like...
我们在RR社区想做的就是告诉大家，来打败我。
What we're trying to do with the r r community is we're trying to say, beat me.
打败布莱恩·约翰逊。
Beat Bryan Johnson.
这就是目标。
And that's the goal.
所以我愿意分享我的做法，让他们能打败我。
And so I'm willing to share with them what I do so they can beat me.
比如，有人会打电话给我，说，我要追上你。
Like, people will call me, they'll be like, I'm gonna get you.
我就说，太好了。
And I'm like, great.
比如，我会帮你打败我。
Like, I'll help you get me.
所以，是的。
So Yeah.
我真的希望整个领域都能进步，我们会通过分享来实现这一点。
I really want the whole field to improve and we'll do that by sharing stuff.
试图把知识分割开来是没有意义的。
Doesn't make sense to try to partition off the knowledge.
当然。
Sure.
我的意思是，我有一个很亲密的朋友在瑞士，他在自己的动态里展示他的生物标志物，目的是希望鼓励人们也做类似的事情。
I mean, have one of my closest friends who's based in Switzerland and he shows off his biomarkers on his stories with the intention and hope to encourage people to do a similar thing.
而且他还真的让他的孩子们也加入了进来。
And he actually got his kids on the journey too.
他们做基础的事情，但看到他引领潮流真的很酷，我看到人们回复他的内容，这真的成了一种现象。
They do the basics but it's really cool to see him setting trends and I see people replying to his stuff and it's really a thing
当然。
for sure.
我觉得你说的那些天生条件比较好的人，他们从起点到现在的变化，可能是最有趣的部分。
I guess what you're saying about the people who have the genetic disposition to be on a better beginning, the change of where they started to where they got is probably the most interesting part in that case.
我觉得我可能也该开始自己做一些测量了。
I mean I think I should probably start doing some measurements myself.
你测过什么？
What have you measured?
说实话，没测过多少。
Honestly not much.
是吗？
Is that right?
我从来没测过睡眠。
I've never measured my sleep.
我从来没戴过Whoop或者Oura戒指。
I've never worn a whoop or an aura ring.
我知道自己什么时候该睡觉。
I know when I sleep.
我觉得我的测量方式就是靠感觉，你之前说过这可能是最不健康的方式，但我确实没有把这些东西量化过。
I guess the measurement is my mind which you said is the probably the unhealthiest way to go about it but I haven't quantified these things.
我觉得自己还算健康，也比较清楚什么对自己有效，但我认为用数据来支持我的决定可能会更好。
I think I'm reasonably healthy and I'm reasonably mindful about what works for me but I think backing my decisions with numbers would probably be
确实是件好事。
a good thing.
你抽过血吗？
Have you gotten a blood draw?
我做过
I've had
医生开的血液检查。
blood tests by medical doctors.
那你看到结果了吗？
And have you seen the results?
我看过。
I have.
那你有没有
And have you
看起来都正常。
They seem okay.
医生就说，对。
Doctor's like, yeah.
你看起来挺正常的。
You seem like a normal dude.
你知道吗？
You know?
这就是……
This is...
所以这就是……
So this is...
那你的实际年龄是多少？
So what's your chronological age?
我不知道那个。
I don't know that.
不。
No.
比如，你多大
Like, how old
哦，我实际多大来着？
are Oh, how old am I actually?
28。
28.
我知道，我知道这个。
I do know I do know that.
那我猜是28。
So I guess 28.
我同意这个假设，就是说你觉得自己身体还行，因为感觉还不错，睡眠也还行，大概就是这样。
I I agree that the the assumption is, right, that you are reasonably healthy because you feel reasonably well, and you think you sleep, like, whatever.
这可能是真的。
That's maybe true.
但也可能不是真的。
It may not be true.
所以这就是为什么很多二三十岁的人容易陷入这种思维模式。
And so this is a this is a thing where most people in their twenties and thirties, fall prey to this kind of thinking Mhmm.
就是他们……
Is they...
你总觉得坏事不会发生在自己身上。
You you kinda don't think bad things are gonna happen to you Mhmm.
至少在这个年纪是这样。
At least at this age.
但坏事可能正在发生，而你根本不知道。
And bad things could be happening to you, and you just don't know.
所以，是的，这是常见的误解之一。
And so, yeah, that's one of the the common misperceptions.
所以如果你做一次基础抽血，然后把结果输入ChatGPT，问它我怎么样？
And so if you do a basic blood draw and then take those results and run it through chatty PT and just say, how am I doing?
有没有什么令人担忧的地方？
Is there anything alarming here?
我不会指望你的医生回来告诉你这个消息。
I wouldn't trust your doctor to come back and give you the news.
我知道以前，比如我做Blueprint的时候，和很多医生合作过，有些医生关注健康、抗衰老这些。
I know in previous times when, like, when I've been doing Blueprint, I worked with a lot of doctors, and some are into, you know, wellness, like, antiaging.
有些不是。
Some are not.
所以有一位医生，他经营一个高端礼宾医疗团队。
So one doctor in particular, he runs this high end concierge group.
好。
K.
然后发生了一件事。
And something happened.
哦，我想起来了。
Oh, I remember.
比如，我的炎症指标非常高，因为我之前受伤了，身体有反应。
Like, my inflammation score came back very high because I had been injured, and so my body had reacted.
但我见他时没告诉他这件事，所以我的指标很高，不过还在大致可接受的范围内。
But I didn't tell him that when I saw him, and so my numbers came back very high, but it was still, like, roughly in, like, the tolerable range.
他拿到我的结果后说，很好。
And he got my results back, he's like, great.
继续坚持。
Keep on going.
但如果仔细看那些数字，我肯定会说，这是个很大的问题。
But if you look at the numbers more closely, I definitely would have said, that is a big problem.
到底怎么回事？
Like, what is going on?
但是……
But...
所以他们确实有一套标准，但这些标准不一定是对的，对吧。
So they they really have a set of standards that may not necessarily be the correct standards because Right.
他们习惯找大问题。
They're accustomed to looking for gigantic problems.
如果不是大问题，对吧，
And if they're not a gigantic problem, like Right.
就随便放一边。
Just kinda push it away.
所以，是的，我觉得永远都不嫌早，或者……
So, yeah, I would suggest it's never too early or...
而且你永远没有借口不去了解数据。
And you're never there's never a good excuse for not knowing the data.
你得……
You wanna be...
这比事后忙着解决问题要容易得多。
It's much easier to address practically than being caught up trying to fix a problem.
本期节目由白爪激浪赞助播出。
This episode is brought to you by White Claw Surge.
选择收听这档播客，你很有眼光。
Nice choice hitting up this podcast.
意料之中。
No surprises.
你总是喜欢尝试大家都能享受的口味，就像白爪激浪一样。
You're all about diving into tastes everyone in the room can enjoy just like White Claw Surge.
它适合庆祝那些彼此心意相通、夜晚才刚刚开始的时刻。
It's for celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun.
凭借大胆的口味和8%的酒精度，尽情释放夜晚的活力。
With bold flavors and 8% alcohol by volume, unleash the night.
释放白爪激浪的激情。
Unleash White Claw Surge.
请理性饮酒。
Please drink responsibly.
硬苏打酒，多种口味。
Hard seltzer with flavors.
酒精含量8%。
8% alcohol by volume.
White Claw Seltzer Works，伊利诺伊州芝加哥。
White Claw Seltzer Works, Chicago, Illinois.
你提到的特级初榨橄榄油，我很喜欢。
One thing I love that you spoke about is the extra virgin olive oil.
我觉得这真的是一个极其简单又美味的方法，能改善人们的生活。
I feel like it's such an incredibly simple and actually delicious fix to people's lives.
你确实说过，特级初榨橄榄油在减肥方面比奥泽匹克还好。
And you did say that extra virgin olive oil is better than Ozempic for weight loss.
我很想多听听这方面的内容。
I'd love to hear more about that.
对，我得澄清一下。
Yeah, so I should clarify that.
我想说的是，橄榄油有很多很多有益健康的特性，对吧。
What I was trying to say is that olive oil has many many beneficial health properties Right.
而且它和奥泽匹克有一些相同的效果。
And some of the same endpoints as Ozempic.
奥泽匹克在减肥和抑制食欲方面显然更好，对吧。
Ozempic is clearly better at weight loss and appetite suppression Right.
比橄榄油好。
Than olive oil.
但我想说的是，当人们想到单一的减肥和抑制食欲的解决方案时，首先想到的是奥泽匹克，而特级初榨橄榄油也有类似的机制，能达到类似的效果。
But what I was trying to say is Ozempic is top of mind for people on a singular solution towards appetite suppression and weight loss, and Extra Virgin Olive Oil has some similar mechanisms that achieve similar results.
所以我只是想做个对比，当你在考虑在某些情况下该怎么做时，奥泽匹克绝对是首选。
So I just try to draw a contrast that when you're thinking about what things to do, in certain situations, Ozempic is definitely the move.
比如，就用它，因为它在那个方面特别有效。
Like, do that because it's singularly good at that.
另外，特级初榨橄榄油这些天然食物，在控制食欲、帮助减肥方面确实有非常积极的作用。
Also, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, these natural foods do have very positive effects on controlling appetite, on helping with weight loss.
所以，是的，我觉得我已经表达过，食物在实现人们认为只有药物才能做到的事情上非常有效，但实际上你可以采取组合策略来达到目的。
So yeah, I think that I've tried to communicate that foods are very effective at doing things that people think drugs only can do, but actually you can have a portfolio approach in doing it.
所以……
So...
好吧。
Fine.
我是说，在Gstaad Guy播客中，我们总是以一个简单的收尾问题来结束。
I mean, on the Gstaad Guy podcast, we always conclude with a simple finale question.
在我的Instagram上，我经常谈论那些“à la poubelle”的东西，这在法语里意思是“扔进垃圾桶”，也就是我们想要改变的事情，还有那些“fantastique”的东西，也就是我们热爱的事情。
On my Instagram, I always talk about things that are which in French means to the trash, things we'd like to change and things that are Fantastique, which are things that we love.
有没有那么一件事，或者一两件事，你觉得在当今世界或我们身处的社会中特别“à la poubelle”，以及一件特别“fantastique”且让你感激的事情？
Is there one thing that you find or one or two things that you find to be particularly a la Poubelle today in the world around you or the society we find ourselves in and one thing that is particularly Fantastique and great that you're grateful for?
好的。
Okay.
首先，我们要扔掉的东西。
First, what we put in the trash.
对。
Yes.
我觉得我们应该停止跟随大脑，而是跟随身体。
I think that we should stop following our minds and instead follow our bodies.
也就是说……
That is...
如果你想想你每天做的决定，你大部分是……
If you think about your decisions on a daily basis, you're mostly...
大多数人都是被大脑支配的。
Most everyone is run by their minds.
就是大脑想要什么。
It's what your mind wants.
就是大脑有一个……
It's what your mind has a...
你知道，是的，而不是真正地说，身体，你来掌控。
You know, yeah, versus legitimately saying, body, you're in control.
所以我认为这是一个革命性的想法，对很多人来说很冒犯，因为大多数人通过他们的思维、他们的偏好来理解自己和自己的存在。
So I think that that is a revolutionary idea that is offensive to a lot of people because most people understand themselves and their existence through their mind, through their preferences.
当我们谈论极端长寿，比如活很长时间的时候，对方的反驳是：我不想活那么久，因为我会无聊。
This is when we talk about, like, extreme longevity, like, you know, going on some duration of time, again, the the rebuttal the person has is I don't wanna live that long because I'd be bored.
对我来说，这个回答基本上证明了为什么思维永远不应该掌控长寿。
And so to me, that answer basically demonstrates why the mind should never be in charge of longevity.
对。
Yep.
思维根本不知道如何思考未来。
The mind has no idea how to think about the future.
思维愿意犯非常愚蠢的逻辑错误，而且它们可以……
The mind is willing to make really stupid errors of logic that, that they can...
基本上，他们在说，当我80岁的时候，我不知怎么就不会那么珍惜生命了。
Basically, they're saying, like, when I'm 80 years old, I'm somehow not going to value life as much.
其实，可能比以往任何时候都更珍惜。
Well, in fact, it's probably more than ever.
但当你到了80岁，你就不想再拨号了，所以人们只是……
But when you arrive at 80, like, you don't wanna dial when you're 80, and so people are just...
他们的存在是自相矛盾的。
Are incoherent with their existence.
所以我会把这个想法扔掉，然后说，作为物种，我们现在应该从心智转向身体。
So I would put that in the trash and say, at this moment as a species, we should transition from mind to body.
这符合我们的最大利益。
It is in our best interest.
在生命的基本问题上，我们的身体比心智更有智慧，我们应该完全接受这种转变，作为我们共同意识体验的一种转变。
Our body is more wise than our than our mind in in the fundamentals of life, and that we should fully embrace that as a shift in our in our shared conscious experience.
我喜欢这个。
I love that.
这真是太棒了，太好了。
And something that is fantastic and great.
我们完全有理由像孩子一样兴奋，因为我们正处在这个特别的时刻。
We would be legitimate in having a child like excitement for this special moment that we're in.
这就像你穿越回原始人时代，然后你告诉他，你再坚持一下，你就会被带到一个世界里，那里有发光的物体，还能和任何人说话。
It's almost like if you traveled back in time to a caveman, and you're like, if you if you just hold on a little bit, you're gonna be transported into a world where you have glowing objects, but you can speak to anybody.
你有那些小白药片，能治好感染。
You have these little white pills that solve infection.
你……
You...
如果你骨折了，也能治好。
If you break a bone, it gets fixed.
你会睡在温暖的床上，洗个热水澡。
You're gonna sleep in a warm bed, have a warm shower.
你知道吗，就是再坚持一下。
You know, like, just hold on.
我觉得这是一个无比精彩时刻的前夜，我们甚至无法想象它有多精彩。
I think that it's the eve of something so spectacular, we can't even imagine it.
我觉得我们可以用孩子般的好奇和热情来看待这种可能性，这样做能激励我们度过每天必须做的那些决定。
And I think we can look at this possibility with childlike wonder and childlike enthusiasm, and in doing this, it helps motivate us through these these day to day decisions we have to make.
比如说，如果你就处在当下这一刻，你会不会和朋友喝酒？
For example, if you're just in this moment right now, do you drink with the friends or not?
那只是一个决定，你可能会说，就今晚，然后这周剩下的时间我都会保持健康。
That's just one decision you may say, just tonight, and then the rest of the week, I'm gonna be healthy.
相对于那种非凡存在的孩子般的好奇，这类决定就变得特别容易。
Those kind of decisions relative to a childlike wonder of extraordinary existence, it just makes that decision so easy.
我不会喝酒，因为那太傻了。
I'm not gonna drink because that's silly.
而且，这正处在银河系这一带最非凡存在的边缘。
And, like, this is one of cusp of the most extraordinary existence in this part of the galaxy.
那真的太傻了。
Like, that's so silly.
我为什么要做那样的取舍？
Why would I make that trade off?
所以就是这种比较。
So it's that kind of comparison.
所以我觉得这是……
So I think this is...
那是……
That's...
对我来说，真正让人充满动力和兴奋的是，我们真的……
To me, is what's so motivating and fantastic is that we we really...
这值得我们怀有那样的热情和对未来的希望，而且未来是由我们来创造的。
It warrants having that kind of enthusiasm and hope for the future, and it's ours to build.
我们只需要对当下这一刻说“是”。
Like, we just need to say yes to this moment.
这会是最大的……
It it would be, like, the the biggest...
如果我们真的没能把握住这一刻，那将是历史上最大的机会损失。
It'd be the the biggest loss of opportunity in history if we actually don't succeed in this moment.
我很喜欢。
I love that.
好的，非常感谢你，布莱恩。
Well, thank you so much, Bryan.
谢谢。
Thank you
感谢你抽出时间，也谢谢你邀请我们来你家。
for your time, and thank you for having us in your home.
谢谢你能来。
Thanks for being here.
谢谢。
Thank you.
感谢收听本期Gstaad Guy播客。
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Gstaad Guy podcast.
如果你想了解更多，欢迎关注我们的社交媒体频道，包括Instagram、TikTok、Spotify、YouTube和Apple播客。
If you're keen to learn more, please follow along by engaging with our social channels on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, YouTube, and Apple podcasts.
我们期待下周与你见面。
And we look forward to seeing you next week.
来自Gstaad Guy的拥抱，再见。
And a big hug from The Gstaad Guy.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。