掌控你的情绪

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This is an iHeart podcast. Want to dive into the minds of the world's greatest athletes, leaders, thinkers, and doers? Then join doctor Michael Gervais, a high performance psychologist who's worked with the Seattle Seahawks, Fortune 500 CEOs, Olympic medalists, and world renowned artists on the Finding Mastery podcast. Tune in as doctor Gervais sits down with high performers like David Goggins, Brene Brown, Angela Duckworth, and Simon Sinek to translate their mental skills and habits into applicable tools you can use to unlock your potential. Check out finding mastery wherever you get your podcasts.

普希金。负面情绪——恐惧、愤怒、悲伤和不堪重负——是人类体验的一部分，但这并不意味着它们更容易应对。无论是面对挑战性任务前的恐惧感，还是处理未达预期时的挫败感，这些强烈情绪都会消耗我们的精力，影响表现，让我们感觉糟糕。好消息是，我们不必被这些情绪左右。研究表明，通过正确策略，我们不仅能有效管理困难情绪，还能化情绪为优势，应对生活中的各种挑战。

Pushkin. Negative emotions, feelings like fear, anger, sadness, and overwhelm are just part of being human, but that doesn't make them any easier to manage. Whether it's the sense of dread we get before a challenging task or the frustration of dealing with unmet expectations, our big feelings can drain our energy, mess up our performance, and make us feel like crap. The good news is that we don't have to be at the mercy of our big feelings. Research shows that with the right strategies, we can not only manage tough emotions effectively, but also use them to our advantage no matter what life throws our way.

方法季特别节目中，我们将深入探讨情绪调节的科学。为此我们邀请到该领域我最欣赏的专家之一。我的朋友、心理学家伊桑·克罗斯将教你如何转换情绪。

So in today's episode of the Happiness Labs how to season, we will dive into the science of emotion regulation. And to help us, we have one of my favorite experts on the topic. Here to teach you how to shift your emotions is my friend, psychologist Ethan Cross.

很高兴见到大家。我先设置下背景...不用...这样就行。

Great to see you guys. Let me put on some background here. No. No. You're good.

你觉得怎样？我直接加个模糊效果吧。

What do you think? I'm just gonna blur it here.

嗯，模糊可以。好的。伊桑在密歇根大学创立了情绪与自控实验室，他的新书直面处理强烈情绪的主题，名为《转换：管理你的情绪，而非被情绪管理》。

Yeah. Blur is fine. Okay. Ethan founded the emotion and self control lab at the University of Michigan, and his latest book tackles the topic of dealing with big feelings head on. It's called shift, managing your emotions so they don't manage you.

稍后我们会详细探讨伊桑的具体建议，但我想先了解他最初是如何对情绪调节产生兴趣的。伊桑将这方面的研究兴趣很大程度上归功于他的祖母。

We'll get to Ethan's specific tips in a moment, but I wanted to begin with how Ethan got interested in emotion regulation in the first place. Ethan credits a lot of his interest in the topic to his grandmother.

嗯，我祖母有个非凡的故事。她在二战时期的波兰长大，战争爆发时，她几乎失去了一切。她的家人大多惨遭杀害。她最终在森林里生活了相当长一段时间，辗转于不同的犹太人聚居区之间。

Well, my grandmother had this remarkable story. So she was growing up in Poland around the time of World War two. And when it hit, she basically lost everything. So her family was, for the most part, slaughtered. She ended up living in the forest for quite a while, bouncing around from one ghetto to the next.

她最终幸存下来，身无分文地来到美国，这是个典型的移民故事。我记得小时候对她的经历非常着迷，我想我们小时候都会这样。我们总想知道自己来自哪里，所爱之人来自何方。所以我不断追问她：'奶奶，那时候发生了什么？你当时感觉如何？又是怎么活下来的？'

And she ultimately survived, moved over to The States with nothing, this kind of classic immigrant story. And I remember as a kid just being totally fascinated about her experience as I think so many of us are when we're little. We wanna just know about where we come from, where the people we love come from. And so I would ask her repeatedly, like, Bubby, what happened back then? Like, how did how did you feel, and and how did you survive?

但她从不与我讨论这些话题。她有句名言：'别问为什么。为什么是个歪歪扭扭的字？'这句话其实很有意思，让人不禁思考——这是什么意思呢？她的意思是，追问'为什么'只会带来痛苦，所以别去深究。

And she would not engage with me on those topics. You know, there's this great quote that she once said, which was like, don't ask why. Why is a crooked letter? Which is actually a a really interesting phrase that makes you think or if didn't mean, like, what does that mean? Well, what she meant was, you know, asking why it's just a source of pain, so just don't go there.

有趣的是，她掌握了这句英语的表达，因为她的英语其实很差，口音很重，从未真正学会流利交流，却精通了这句话。当然，我没听她的话，反而把职业生涯都投入到她告诫我不要做的事——追问我们情感生活的'为什么'：为什么会有这些情绪？当情绪以我们不希望的方式被触发（反应过激或持续时间过长）时，我们该如何控制？

And it was interesting that she had mastered that command of of English language because if you spoke to her, she spoke terrible English. She had, like, you know, very accented and never quite really learned how to speak fluently, but she had mastered that that little bit. Of course, I proceeded to not listen to her, and I ended up devoting my career to doing exactly what she told me not to do, which is asking why about our emotional lives. Why do we have the emotions we do? And when we find them getting tweaked in ways that we don't want them to be tweaked, they get activated too intensely or for too long, what can we do to rein them in?

因此，我今天取得的很多成就都归功于早期与祖母相处的经历。需要说明的是，除了不愿谈论战争创伤外，她其实是个情感丰富、温暖热情的人。她能感受情绪，只是不喜欢过多谈论。

And so I do attribute a lot of where I am today to those early experiences with with my grandmother, who for the record, aside from not talking to me about the pain of the war, was an incredibly emotive and warm individual. So just to put that out there, she was capable of experiencing emotion, and she did. She just didn't really like to talk about it too much.

她似乎也特别不愿提及负面情绪。你预期她经历过哪些负面情绪，却从未听她提起？

It also seems like she was really not interested in talking about the negative emotions. What are some of the negative emotions you expected she experienced, but you didn't hear her talking about?

恐惧、害怕、焦虑。后来我发现，她晚年曾为美国大屠杀纪念馆的一个项目讲述过经历，那是我了解她故事的主要渠道。我还听说，她每年会允许自己回忆一次往事——有个由她家乡及周边城镇幸存者组成的民间组织。

Terror, fear, anxiety. You know, I I I did discover later on in her life, she did recount her experiences for a project at the United States Holocaust Museum, which is where I learned a lot about her story. And, I also heard about her stories. Once a year, she would allow herself to go back to what happened. There's, like, a grassroots organization of survivors from the town and the towns nearby where she grew up.

他们聚在一起，只是谈论发生的事情。我记得了解到一个经历，她的几位直系亲属被杀害，但她和父亲幸存下来。他们身处这个小隔都，她父亲说，他们来了，要来杀我们。快躲起来。

And they get together, and they just talk about what happened. And I remember learning about an experience where several of her immediate family members were killed, but her dad and her had made it. And they're in this small ghetto, and her dad says, they're coming. They're coming to kill us. Hide.

她藏在公寓的某个地方，我记不清具体位置了。然后她父亲离开了，再也没有回来。所以当我想到那个场景，或者想到她站在队列中知道自己将被带走处决的经历——如果不是我祖父说服警察在她逃跑时视而不见的话。我在想，如果是我，在那个情境下会是什么感受？

She hid somewhere in the apartment. I can't remember where. And then her dad left, and then he just never came back. So when I think about that or when I think about her experience standing on a line knowing that she would be taken to be killed, and if it wasn't for my grandfather essentially convincing the police officer to look the other way while she ran away. Like, I think to myself, how would I feel in that situation?

那是恐惧。是焦虑。是绝望。这种复杂的负面情绪混合体。所以，回想起来，她不愿和我谈论这些确实很有道理。

And it's terror. It is anxiety. It is dismay. This complex cocktail of negative emotions. And so the the you know, I guess in retrospect, it it it made a lot of sense why she didn't really wanna talk to me about that.

这些都不是令人愉快的状态。但劳瑞，在我看来，我祖母简直是超人——不仅从那些经历中幸存下来，而且按照许多成功标准来看，她后来还蓬勃发展：移民到这里，追逐梦想，拼命工作，最终买了自己的房子，重建家庭。正是这个故事从我幼时就深深吸引了我。

So these are not pleasant states to be in. But, you know, Laurie, the thing is in my mind, my grandmother was superwoman for not only being able to survive those experiences, but for then arguably by many metrics of success being able to thrive, moving over here, living the dream, working super hard, eventually buying her own home, restarting her family. And it was really that story that captivated me from a young age.

你在书中提到，我们长期以来一直想找到调节情绪的方法，尤其是负面情绪。我之前不知道历史上人们尝试过的一些古怪方法。能分享些这类奇怪的历史情绪调节方式吗？

And in your book, you talk about how we've wanted to figure out ways to regulate our emotions, especially our negative emotions for a long time. And and I didn't know the history of some of the kookier ways that people went about this. So share some of these kind of strange, like, historic ways that we've tried to regulate our emotions.

描述我研读情绪及其调节历史时感受的最佳方式就是——大开眼界。太不可思议了。很可能自人类在地球上出现以来，我们就一直在与情绪管理作斗争。为什么这么说？现存最早的泥板文字记载中，就有关于情感痛苦、被拒绝的心碎以及如何应对的描述。

So the best way I can convey my experience reading up on the the history of emotions and emotion regulations is to use the phrase blew my mind. It's just remarkable. So we have likely been struggling with our ability to manage our emotions for as long as we have been roaming the planet. Why do I say that? Well, if you look at some of the earliest writings ever discovered, writing on clay tablets, these were writings that talked about the pain of emotion, of being rejected, the the pain of a broken heart, and how that was managed.

史上首个外科技术——我们认为最早发展起来的外科技术是在人头上钻孔。根据医学史学家研究，其用途可能有很多，其中之一就是帮助人们管理极端情绪和失调状态。想象八千到一万年前，当这种技术刚出现时：人们被情绪吞噬，当时的理论认为——必须驱除脑中作祟的恶灵。

The first surgical technique, the first technique that we believed was developed for surgical technique was drilling holes in people's heads. And there are likely many reasons that it was believed to be used, but one of them, according to medical historians, is to help people manage extreme emotions, dysregulated states. And, like, you know, if you think back eight to ten thousand years ago when that first came on the scene, you have this instance of people being consumed with emotion. And what do we gotta do? Well, our theory about what may have been driving that was there are some evil spirits in there, so you gotta you gotta purge yourself of those.

这种净化思维持续了相当长的时间，驱魔、水蛭疗法、放血疗法。但如果我们快进到二十世纪四十年代，情绪调节时间线上又出现了一个巨大的高峰。一位葡萄牙医生因一项我称之为情绪调节干预的疗法获得了诺贝尔奖。没错，有人因情绪调节干预获得了诺贝尔奖。

And that kind of purging mentality existed for quite some time, exorcisms, leeches, bloodletting. But then if we fast forward to the nineteen forties, there's another giant spike on the emotion regulation timeline. A Portuguese physician wins the Nobel Prize for what I would describe as an emotion regulation intervention. That is right. Someone has won the Nobel Prize for emotion regulation intervention.

它叫什么？脑白质切除术，用现代术语来说就是前额叶切除术。翻开眼睑，在前额叶皮层戳几个洞，就能调低我们的感受音量。诺贝尔奖。但还有个有趣的历史事实我忘了提，如果你去看销量遥遥领先的史上最畅销书，让我们告诉大家。

What was it called? The leucotomy or in modern terms, the frontal lobotomy. So flip back the eyelid, poke a few holes in your frontal cortex, and turn the volume down on how we are feeling. Nobel Prize. But, you know, one other really fun kinda historical fact that I forgot to put in there is if you go to the best selling book of all time by a wide margin, Let's tell everyone.

什么书是史上最畅销的书？

What what was what is the best selling book of all time?

圣经？

The bible?

不，你说对了。就是圣经。你知道的，就像

No. You got it. The bible. Like, you know, like

我感觉自己在参加《危险边缘》猜谜节目。我当时想，我觉得是圣经。但

I feel like I'm on Jeopardy. I was like, I think it's the bible. But

没错。圣经卖出了无数本。圣经里最著名的故事之一是什么？就是亚当与夏娃的故事。这是个关于情绪调节或情绪调节失败的故事。

yeah. Bible has sold many, many copies. What is one of the most famous stories from the bible? It is the story of Adam and Eve. This is a story about emotion regulation or the failure to regulate emotions.

所以我们长期以来一直在与这个问题作斗争。

So we've been struggling with this stuff for a really long time.

我理解。我是说，有时候如果我知道在医学上合理的话，我会选择在头上钻个洞来停止反复思考或悲伤，尤其是在分手之类的事情之后，我可能会去做的。你懂吗？

And I get it. I mean, there have been times when if I knew it was medically reasonable to drill a hole in my head and I would stop ruminating or being sad or kind of especially after, like, breakups and things like that, like, I would have gone for it. You know?

你知道，这种痛苦是真实的。如果你看看统计数据，它们令人震惊。Laurie，你比大多数人更清楚这一点，而且收听这个播客的听众无疑也熟悉这些数据。但据估计，健康产业是一个价值万亿美元的产业。你可以看到越来越多的资源被投入到帮助人们改善心理健康和整体福祉上。

You know, the pain is real. And if you look at the statistics, they're shocking. You know this, Laurie, better than better than most, and and and folks who are listening to the podcast are no doubt familiar with these statistics too. But the wellness industry by some estimates is a trillion dollar industry. You see increasing amounts of resources being devoted to helping people with mental health, with well-being writ large.

从文化角度来看，我认为我们现在正处于一个转折点，我们真正认识到情绪在我们生活中扮演的角色，并理解了管理它们的必要性。所以这里有个非常好的消息。让我充满希望的是，我们已经学到了很多关于如何管理情绪的方法，而不必采取损害大脑的极端步骤。明确地说，我想我可以代表你，Laurie，说我们在这个播客中不提倡这种做法。

Culturally, I think we are now at an inflection point where we really recognize the role that our emotions are playing in our lives and understand the need to manage them. So here's the really good news. What fills me with with hope is that we have learned a lot about how we can manage our emotions without having to take these extreme steps of damaging our brains, which to be clear, I think I could speak for you, Laurie, of saying we do not endorse that on this podcast.

我们不提倡在头上钻孔。不。

We're not endorsing brain holes. No.

是的。不在头上钻孔。不钻孔。让我们把钻孔这个选项彻底排除在外。我们有一系列非常棒的非侵入性工具可以使用，只要我们了解这些工具及其工作原理。

Yes. No brain holes. No no holes. Like, let's just leave the holes out of the equation. Like, we've got we've got a a fantastic array of noninvasive tools that we can use if we know what those tools are and how they work.

这并不是说我们已经掌握了关于情绪调节的一切。我们还有很多需要学习的地方，这很令人兴奋。但我们已经学到了不少。而且，用我最喜欢的话来说，令人震惊的是，如果你问大多数人，嘿。

This is not to say we know everything about emotion regulation. We have a lot to learn. That's exciting. But we have learned quite a bit. And what also, to use my favorite phrase, blows my mind is if you ask most people, hey.

你们成长过程中有人教过这些方法吗？绝大多数人会说没有。如果我问观众，嘿，你们第一次学习如何进行身体锻炼是什么时候？大多数人会说，大概是一二年级吧。

Were you ever taught these tools growing up? By far and away, the majority will say no. If I ask an audience, hey. When is the first time you learned, like, how to exercise physically? Most people will say, yeah, probably, like, first or second grade.

我们有体育课。对，开合跳、俯卧撑。你们知道怎么做。我是说，虽然不喜欢做，但至少知道该怎么做。

We have gym class. Yeah. Jumping jacks, push ups. You know how to do those. I mean, not like to do it, but we know what to do.

那么，你们第一次正式学习如何管理情绪是什么时候？多数人会说，从来没有。这在我看来是可悲的。我认为我们有机会改变这个现状，比如通过这档播客所做的——把科学知识转化成对人们有益的方式分享给大家。

Okay. When is the first time you learned how to man like, formally learned how to manage your emotions? Most people will say, never. And that to me is a travesty. And I think it's something that we have the opportunity to address by, you know, the quite frankly, what what you're doing on this podcast, which is to take science and to share it with folks in ways that can benefit them.

我始终觉得不可思议：我们教年轻人体育课甚至驾驶课，却不常教他们应对强烈情绪的工具。现在插播短暂休息，稍后伊桑将回来分享他基于实证的第一个情绪调节技巧。《幸福实验室》稍后继续。良好的沟通对生活至关重要，无论是个人还是职场。我朋友马特·亚伯拉罕的播客《快速思考，智慧表达》能帮助你提升这项技能。

I still find it amazing that we teach physical education and even driver's ed to our young people, but we don't always give them the tools they need to cope with their big feelings. It's time for a short break, but Ethan will soon be back to share the first of his evidence based how to tips for regulating big feelings. The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment. Good communication is essential in life, both personally and professionally. And my friend, Matt Abraham's podcast, think fast, talk smart, can help you do better with that.

每周马特都会与专家（包括我）探讨，分享实用研究支持的技巧，比如如何深度对话、成为更好的倾听者、在冲突中清晰沟通。本月《快速思考，智慧表达》推出科技工具创作者迷你系列，教你用工具提升职场沟通与生活质量。若想升级沟通能力，每周二可在任意播客平台收听，更多内容请访问fastersmarter.io。强烈情绪常让人感觉失控，当恐惧、压力或愤怒来袭时，它们仿佛会永远持续。

Each week, Matt sits down with experts, including me, to share practical research backed tips to help you learn things like how to connect deeply in conversation, how to be a better listener, and how to communicate clearly through conflict. And this month, think fast, talk smart features a miniseries with tech tool creators on how to use their tools to improve your professional communication and your life. So if you're ready to level up your communication game, listen every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts and find additional content to level up your communication at fastersmarter.io. Big emotions often feel pretty out of control. When feelings like fear, overwhelm, and anger kick in, they often feel like they're here to stay.

但心理学家伊桑·克罗斯（《情绪转换：管理情绪而非被情绪管理》作者）指出，有很多方法能掌控强烈情绪。他的首要建议是寻找合适的外部感官刺激——朋友的拥抱、暖心话语，或是啜饮热饮。研究表明，调动感官是摆脱强烈情绪的有效方式。伊桑本人就有个经典例子：他的情绪曾被一首俗气歌曲改变——或者应该说，被一首硬核摇滚经典曲目改变。

But psychologist Ethan Cross, author of shift managing your emotions so they don't manage you, argues that there are lots of ways to get big feelings under control. And his first tip for doing so is to find the right outside sensory stimulus, a hook from a friend, hearing a kind word, or maybe even sipping a warm drink. Research shows that using our senses can be a great way to break out of big feelings. In fact, Ethan has a particularly good example of his own emotions being altered by a cheesy song or, let me rephrase, by a stone cold rock classic.

比如Journey乐队的《Don't Stop Believing》。我承认是铁粉，这是我常用来振奋心情的歌。大约五年前，我周末在女儿足球队当教练，那时她五六岁左右。

So Journey, Don't Stop Believing. I will admit, huge fan. It's one of my go to feel good pump up songs. If we go back in time about five or so years, I was coaching my daughter's soccer team on the weekends. She was around five or six.

我超级、超级、超级喜欢教孩子们踢足球。不是因为我特别擅长，也不是因为我完全沉浸其中，只是因为它和我做的其他事情形成了一种有趣的对比。所以整个星期我都会期待周末和她一起参加这些比赛。

And I love, love, love coaching kids soccer. Not because I'm particularly good at it. It's also I'm not getting super immersed. It's just it's just a fun contrast to everything else I do. And so I would look forward to these games with her on the weekend throughout the week.

通常，她总是充满兴奋、迫不及待，但有一天特别让我记忆深刻，那天她真的让我很沮丧。她情绪特别低落，就像是我硬拉着她上车一样，她根本不想去。开车时，我从后视镜看到她把头耷拉在肩膀上，脸上没有一丝笑容。

And, normally, she was just a ball of excitement and ready to go, but there was this one day that really sticks out in my memory where she was just really bumming me out. She was super glum. Like, it was like I was pulling her to get into the car to go. She did not wanna be there. And, you know, we start driving, look in the rearview mirror, her head's kinda, like, draped over her shoulder, no smile.

突然，收音机里响起了《Don't Stop Believing》。我立刻有点兴奋起来，开始跟着哼唱，还把音量调大了一点。然后我看向后座，发现她也开始跟着节奏摇摆，点着头小声哼唱。大约七分钟后，我们到了公园。

And then all of a sudden, don't stop believing comes on the radio. And I'm instantly kinda getting a little bit more excited, and then I start audibly, you know, kinda humming and singing along and turn the volume up a little bit. And then I I look in the back seat, and I noticed that she's beginning to jam out also. And she's bopping her head, and she's kinda humming along. You know, fast forward about seven minutes, we get to the park.

车还没停稳，她就猛地推开门冲了出去，在那场比赛中我记得她进了大概7000个球（夸张说法）。但正是那次和女儿以及Jertie的经历让我恍然大悟。从那以后，当我看到仪表盘上的音乐控制台时，我不再只看到一个LED面板，而是看到了一个情绪调节装置。

And before I can even park the car, she, like, just opens the door, bolts out of the car, and scores what I remember to be 7,000 goals that game. Not true, but it was really in many ways that experience with my daughter and Jertie, a light bulb went off. From that point on, when I would look at my dashboard and see the, you know, the the music console, I no longer just saw an LED dashboard. I now saw an emotion regulation device.

这个概念太重要了，因为我也会无意识地用音乐调节情绪。但我觉得自己在这方面搞砸了。你看，当你女儿情绪低落时，你放了《Don't Stop Believing》——史上最能让人开心起舞、兴奋地去踢足球的歌。而我情绪低落时，却不会选择Journey乐队这种歌。

This is such an important idea because I also use music without realizing it to regulate my emotions all the time. But I think this is a spot where I kinda mess up. Right? Because unlike you who had this moment where your daughter is feeling glum and you put on don't stop believing, which is like the most happy pump up, get out dancing, and go to your soccer match elated song ever. When I'm feeling kinda glum, I don't gravitate towards the journey.

或者说我会选Journey的歌，但选的是他们那些比较悲伤的曲子。

Or I gravitate towards journey, but different journey songs that kinda sad.

你懂的，比如芝加哥乐队那种。

You know? Chicago. Yeah.

是啊。就像那种，你知道的，那些哀怨的、关于爱情创伤的歌曲类型。对吧？那么我在那里做错了什么？因为我用音乐来调动情绪，但似乎它并没有改变。

Yeah. Like, it's it's like the the the whiny, you know, love bites kinds of songs. Right? And so what am I doing wrong there? Because I'm using music to kinda move my emotions around, but it seems like it's not shifting.

嗯，我不会说你做错了什么，除非这与你的目标背道而驰。让我稍微解释一下。我希望在这本书中传达的一个重要信息是，当我们以适当的程度体验情绪时，所有的情绪都是有益的，既不太强烈也不太持久。我这么说是什么意思？愤怒、悲伤或嫉妒怎么可能有用呢？

Well, I wouldn't say you're doing something wrong unless it's counter to your goals. And let me unpack that for a second. So one really important message I hope to convey in this book is that all of our emotions are functional when they're experienced proportions, not too intense or not too long. What do I mean by that? How could anger or sadness or envy ever be useful?

如果你看看这些情绪的作用，它们通常是在特定情境下被触发的，在这些情境中，它们激励你思考、感受和行动的方式实际上可能是适应性的。以悲伤为例，因为你提到了芝加哥阿黛尔风格的歌曲。我们通常在经历某种无法挽回的损失时感到悲伤，比如失去亲人、没有得到工作，或者永远无法得到某物。在这种情况下，研究表明，悲伤会促使我们放慢生理节奏，将注意力转向内心，进行反思，试图理解这种情况。

Well, if you look at what those emotions are doing, they're often being triggered in particular situations where the way they are motivating you to think, feel, and behave can actually be adaptive. So let's take sadness as an example because you brought up the kind of Chicago Adele genre of songs. We typically experience sadness when we experience some loss that we cannot regain, so the loss of a loved one, we don't get a job, we can't ever get it. And in that circumstance, when we feel this emotion, what research shows it motivates us to do it, it slows us down physiologically. It leads us to turn our attention inward introspect, to try to make sense of the situation.

当你经历悲伤时，往往需要寻找意义。世界不再是你预期或曾经体验的样子了。我需要重新调整我对这个世界的理解。所以，我需要一些独处的时间来进行这种反思过程。但独自躲在角落里可能有点危险，对吧？我们不想让人们完全孤立，所以我们进化出了向他人发出警告信号的能力，让他们知道我们正在经历悲伤，可能需要一点帮助，这通常表现为悲伤的表情。

There is a need for meaning making often when you experience sadness. Well, the world is no longer the way I expected it to be or have experienced it. I gotta, like, reconfigure how I make sense of this world now. Let So me take some time by myself to engage in that reflective process. But because going off in the corner by myself may be a little dangerous, right, we don't wanna leave people totally alone, We have evolved to send warning signs to other folks to let them know that we're experiencing sadness and might need a little help, which is often a sad expression.

当你看到别人脸上的悲伤表情时，你会模仿他们。顺便说一句，我的孩子们已经掌握了这一点。我可以因为某些负面行为表现得非常恰当的沮丧，而他们会夸张地撅起下嘴唇，这非常有效，每次都让我心软。不过，我有点跑题了。

When you see a sad expression on someone else's face, you mimic them. My kids, by the way, have mastered this. I can be, like, really appropriately upset for some negative behavior, and they do this exaggerated stick out the lower limb, and it is so powerful. It gets me every time. In any case, I digress.

所以，悲伤可以是有功能的。它可以帮助我们思考一些问题。因此，你直觉上选择听Journey乐队的歌，这是一种让你更深入那种潜在的悲伤状态，以促进那种内省和意义寻找过程的方式。但我想传达的一个重要转折点就在这里，我想这也是你最初的想法。如果你感到悲伤，而你不想感到悲伤，那就不要听悲伤的音乐。

So so sadness can be functional. It could help us think through some problems. So your intuition to, like, listen to journey, that is a way of you going deeper into that potentially sad state to facilitate that introspective meaning making process. Here's the big but that I wanna convey, though, and I think it's where you originally were going. If you are feeling sad and you don't want to feel sad, don't listen to sad music.

那么你应该做的是抵抗那种听与情绪相符的音乐的冲动。我们正在谈论这种情绪一致性效应，而你应该朝相反的方向走。这就是我策略性做的事情。如果我有一个高风险的演讲即将到来，而我感到有些紧张，对吧？我不会听那些只会放大这种情绪的音乐，然后说我要走Journey的路线。

Then what you wanna do is you wanna resist that urge to to listen to the music that is congruent. So we're talking about this emotional congruency effect, and you wanna go in the other direction. This so this is what I do strategically. If I've got, like, a high stakes presentation coming up and I have I have some jitters, Right? I'm not gonna listen to music that just amplifies that and say, I'm going the journey route.

对吧？我要切换到其他极其、极其俗气但振奋的音乐。比如《Living on a Prayer》就是个绝佳例子，还混了点金属乐队的《Enter Sandman》。明白吗？这就是我通过策略性调动感官来推动情绪转向不同轨迹的方式。

Right? I'm going to other terribly, terribly cheesy bump up music. Living on a prayer being another great example with a little bit of Metallica enter the sandman mixed in. Right? Like, this is a way in which I'm strategically harnessing my senses to push my emotions on a different trajectory.

绝不能低估感官作为策略性工具的作用，因为我们知道感觉与情感体验之间的联系——这些大脑中存在的联结非常强大。所以如果你意识到感官如何影响自己，就能打开各种工具的大门来帮助自己。

And the senses should not be underestimated as a tool that could be strategically used to do that because we know that the links between sensation and emotional experience, these are very strong links that exist in our brains. And so if you are aware of how your senses could affect you, this opens up the door to all manner of tools that you can recruit to help you out.

我喜欢读你书的其中一个原因是，虽然我早就知道音乐的例子（或许不是用来转向积极方向），但我知道那是种强大的感官工具。你的书真正提醒了我，其实有很多感官工具可用。对吧？比如触摸舒适毯子的触感。对吧？

And one of the reasons I loved reading your book is that, of course, I've known about the music example, maybe not for shifting in the right direction, but I knew that that was a powerful sensory tool I could use. Your book really reminded me, there are lots of sensory tools you can use. Right? I can use touch of like a comfy blanket. Right?

我也可以用视觉刺激，比如调亮灯光让自己更清醒。真的有太多不同类型的感官体验可以用来调整情绪。我原本记得听觉，但有点忘了其他感官途径。

I could use like just the visuals, like turning the light on more to kinda wake myself up more. There's just so many different kinds of sensory experiences you can use to shift your emotions around. I kind of remembered audition, but I kind of forgotten about some of the other ones.

是的。我的意思是，这也是我的亲身经历。事实上，我和我的研究生迈克尔拉·罗德里格斯在深入研究这些文献后，我们合写了一篇论文。我当时就想，为什么我们不更多地讨论我们的感官呢？于是我们写了一篇名为《感官情绪调节》的论文，研究了每一种主要感官，发现它们都具备这种相对轻松转变我们情绪的能力。

Yeah. I mean, this this was my experience too. In fact, one of my graduate students, Michaela Rodriguez, we actually wrote a paper after I dug into this literature. I'm like, why aren't we talking about our senses more? So we wrote this paper called sensory emotion regulation in which we looked at each of the major senses, and all of them have this capacity to relatively effortlessly shift our emotions.

我认为'省力性'是需要让人们意识到的重要一点。我在《情绪调节指南》中介绍了许多不同的工具，其中有些相当费力。实施这些工具需要消耗我们的资源，但这本身并没有错，它们都有适用的场合。

And I think the effort piece is an important one to put on people's radar. I talk about a ton of different tools in shift for pushing our emotions around. Some of them are quite effortful. They take resources for us to implement these tools, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's a time and place for that.

但我们对人类共性的认知是：通常来说，如果无需费力，我们就不会主动作为。在这方面我们可算是个懒惰的物种——因为总想保存精力。而我们的感官能极其迅速地影响情绪。触觉就是我想提醒大家的另一个绝佳例子，我称这个工具为'暖心但不越界的触碰'，因为使用时必须格外注意分寸。

But what we know about all of us human beings is that in general, if we don't have to exert effort, we're not gonna do it. We tend to be a lazy species in that regard because we're trying to conserve our resources. Our senses push our emotions around really, really fast. And so touch is another great example that I like to remind folks about. I call this tool affectionate but not creepy touch because you have to be careful about how you wield that tool.

但你知道吗，工作中的一个击拳，这种触觉交流能激发情感反应。对吧？就像孩子刚出生时，我们用来安抚他们、调节情绪的第一件工具是什么？就是肌肤接触。这类触觉体验会伴随我们一生。

But, you know, like, a fist bump at work, that's a tactile exchange that activates an emotional response. Right? Like, what is the first tool we use with kids when they are born into this world to soothe them, to regulate them? It is skin to skin contact. Those kinds of tactile experiences, they stay with us throughout our lives.

当然需要注意的是，研究表明如果触觉体验不受欢迎——比如令人不适的触碰——不仅会削弱积极效果，还可能引发负面反应。所以我要向所有听众澄清，劳里和伊桑，我想我可以代表你说，劳里，我们并非提倡在工作或生活中随意触碰他人。但在适当情境下，这确实能产生强大效果。我认为我们

The caveat, of course, is research does show that if a tactile experience is not wanted, which would be the creepy form of touch, it not only mitigates positive effects, it actually can elicit a negative reaction. So to be clear to everyone who's listening, Laurie and Ethan, I think I can say this for you, Laurie, we are not advocating haphazardly touching people at work and in your lives. In the appropriate context, though, this can be powerful. And I think we

完全可以采用让自己感觉良好的自我触碰方式。对吧？读你的书时，我想起有条毯子触感特别舒适。当我心情不好时，就会下意识去找它。对吧？

can just use forms of self touch that feel really good. Right? Reading your book, I was reminded there's this blanket that just feels really cozy. And when I'm having a bad day, like, I can just kind of go to it. Right?

我还有双特别舒服的拖鞋。对吧？

I have, like, slippers that are just really comfortable. Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

我也非常认同克里斯汀·内夫的一些建议：当你需要这种自我触碰，但身边没有合适对象可以请求时，你可以给自己一些自我触碰，比如小小地拥抱自己或自我安抚——因为大脑很笨，分不清是谁在给你这种触碰。

I'm also a huge fan of some of Kristin Neff's suggestions that, if you need that kind of self touch, but you're not around somebody for whom it would be effectively appropriate to ask them, you can give yourself some self touch, a little self hug or a little self soothing because brains are stupid. They don't know who's who's giving you that self touch.

说到这个...其实我有个...我想分享个有点尴尬的亲身经历。前几天我做演讲时，午饭后胃不舒服，结果我不自觉地开始在房间里踱步，还轻轻揉肚子。就是那种...揉肚子的动作。

So Well, you know, I had a I'll share with you. And I guess everyone who's listening, a somewhat embarrassing implementation of this tool, and I I did it unknowingly. I was giving a a presentation the other the other day, and it was after lunch. So I had an upset stomach, and I I found myself, like, pacing the room and just rubbing my stomach a little bit. Rubbing your tummy.

是啊，揉着我的肚子。就像那样，然后我服用了美他莫尔，你在干什么？别这样做了。所以我立刻就停下了。

Yeah. Rubbing my tummy. Like and then I had the metamole, what are you doing? Stop doing this. So I stopped doing immediately.

这个领域还有另一个有趣的发现。组织一直在利用这种感官工具作为调节器，而我们往往完全意识不到。比如，许多组织会在墙上挂美丽的艺术品，用视觉刺激将我们推向不同的情绪空间。这可能并不令人惊讶。但让我惊讶的是，组织经常通过通风系统释放特定气味，以激发某种积极的反应。

So here's other one fun fun finding in this space. Organizations are leveraging this tool of sensation as a regulator all the time and often completely out of our awareness. So many organizations, for example, have beautiful artwork on the walls and visual stimuli designed to push us into a different emotional space. That may not be so surprising. But what was surprising to me were the ways in which organizations often pump certain kinds of odors through their ventilation systems to arouse a certain kind of positive response.

有些公司专门研究如何构建与组织目标相匹配的气味。这让我想起早年的一件事，我记得每次度假带孩子们去酒店时，他们总会说：‘爸爸，这里真好，真是个很棒的地方。’而这正是酒店的目标。我们正通过这种方式被另一个组织调节着。

And there are companies that really specialize in constructing the right odors to match the organization's goals. And so this came full circle to me because earlier on in life, I remember my children, whenever we go on vacation, we go to a a hotel, and and I remember they go, daddy, it's so so nice in here. It's such a nice place, and that is exactly the goal. And it is a way that we are being regulated by another organization through this path.

但关键在于，我们自己也能做完全相同的事。完全正确。香薰蜡烛或各种方式，我们都能通过操控感官环境来感觉更好。

But the idea is that we can do exactly the same thing ourselves. Totally. Scented candles or just all the kinds of ways that we can manipulate our sensory environment to feel better.

没错。你知道，我对这本书真正的期望是，它列出了所有现有的工具。其中一些你可能遇到过但没意识到，另一些你可能完全不了解。但重点是，当我们展示这些并解释其原理时，就给了你机会开始策略性地运用这些工具，以实现情绪调节目标。

That's right. And, you know, the the the real hope that I have for this book is it lays out all of the tools that exist. Some of these tools may be you may have, like, encountered some of these tools but not realized it. You may not know about some of these tools. But the idea is that when we lay all of this out and explain how this works, now we give you the opportunity to start wielding these tools strategically to help you match your emotion regulatory goals.

我希望这能成为人们改善生活的福音。

My hope is that that is a boon to people in terms of, you know, improving their lives.

那么让我们跳到第二个工具——如何通过注意力转移情绪。我知道自己常用分心法来调节情绪，这是不是大家的普遍策略？

And so let's jump to tool number two, which is how we can shift our emotion using our attention. A big one that I know I tend to use a lot when it comes to shifting my emotions with attention is through distraction. Am I alone? Is distraction a kinda go to strategy for lots of folks?

分心是个大问题，对许多人来说是个惯用手段。有趣的是，它并不总能得到应有的认可。人们普遍认为，当你经历重大情感事件时，不应该逃避。你不该转移注意力，而应该直面它们，解决它们。

Distraction is a is a is a that's a biggie, and it is a go to for lots of folks. And what's interesting is it doesn't always get the props that it deserves. There's a common belief that when you experience big significant emotional events in your life, you should not avoid them. You should not distract. You should approach them, work through them.

这种观念在流行文化中常被强化。但科学研究表明，这并不完全正确。我们发现，有效掌控注意力的关键在于策略性运用——在条件合适时直面某些经历进行处理，但若能以健康方式转移注意力（我指的不是物质滥用或危险行为，虽然有些人会这么做），积极的分散注意力往往能帮你与经历保持距离，从而以更健康的角度重新面对。我祖母就是策略性运用注意力的高手。

This message is often reinforced in popular culture. And it turns out if you look at the science, it is not entirely true. So what we have seen is that really the key to wielding your attention effectively is being strategic in how you do so. Approaching certain kinds of experiences to work through them when the conditions are right, but also if you can distract in a healthy way, what I mean by that is not by substance abuses or risky behaviors, which some people some people do, but a positive form of distraction can often be really useful for giving you some space from the experience to then let you reapproach it with a healthier perspective. My grandmother is actually really effective at using attention strategically.

她不会反复沉溺于那段经历，不会陷入无休止的反复思索和谈论。她会专注于可控之事——她的孩子、她的工作。但当每年与人交谈时，或是偶遇其他幸存者时，若话题引向这段经历，她也会直面处理。所以她并非长期逃避，我们知道那种慢性回避是非常有害的。

She would not dwell on the experience over and over. She didn't get lost in rumination and chatter about this event. She would focus on things that were under her control, her kids, her job. But when the conversation with other people one time a year or even if she ran into fellow survivors lend itself to thinking about this experience, she would she would grapple with it. So she wouldn't avoid it to the point where it was a chronic form of avoidance that we know is really harmful.

我认为人们可以通过几个步骤来判断何时该直面问题，何时该暂时回避或在经历间切换。第一步就是要认识到：这里没有放之四海皆准的解决方案——无论是注意力调控，还是我在书中提到的其他情绪调节工具。我们已知的规律是：差异性才是常态。不同工具适用于不同人群、不同情境。

You know, there are there are various, I think, steps that people can follow to figure out when they should approach and when they should avoid or go back and forth between their experiences. Step one is just, I'd like, recognizing there's no one size fits all solution here. Not for wielding your attention or for that matter for using any of the different shifters and emotion regulation tools I talk about in the book. What we know is that variability is the rule, not the exception. Different tools work for different people in different situations.

这就像体育锻炼。如果我询问社交圈里的10个人他们的健身方式，可能会得到10种不同的健身方案。我们收集的数据表明，情绪调节也是如此——我们在不同情境依赖不同工具。假设你遇到某个刺激事件并决定转移注意力...

I liken it to physical exercise. If I take 10 people in my social network and I ask them what they do to keep physically fit, I'm likely going to get 10 different physical health routines. The data that we and others have collected suggest that emotion regulation is very, very similar. We rely on different tools in different situations. Let's say you encounter an experience that provokes you in some way, and you decide to distract.

那么劳里，你最喜欢的分散注意力方式是什么？

And so what's your favorite distraction, Laurie?

Wordle存档游戏——我会回头玩以前没玩过的旧谜题。

The Wordle archive where I kind of go back and do old Wordle puzzles that I haven't done before.

这是一个非常、非常好的干扰因素，因为它既令人愉悦，又需要认知投入。所以它能吸引你的注意力，这对分散注意力很有用。你想要一个干扰因素来吸引你的注意力，以防止它立刻回到刚刚激怒你的情境中。那么好吧。比如说，你知道，假设你有一个播客采访没有按照你想要的方式进行。

That is a really, really good distractor because it is pleasant, but also it is cognitively demanding. So it captures your attention, which is useful for distraction. You want a distraction to capture your attention to prevent it from going back right away to the situation that's just provoked you. So okay. So let's say, you know, you have let's say a podcast interview doesn't go the way you want.

这永远不会发生，伊森。得了吧。不可能。

That would never happen, Ethan. Come on. No.

这永远不会发生。所以，你知道，当这种情况发生时，你会分散注意力。然后当你分散完注意力后，结果发现你已经不再想那个问题，那个采访了。如果真是这样，它没有再浮现在你的意识中，那就太棒了。

It would never happen. So, you know, so that happens, and you distract. And then when you're done distracting, turns out you're done. You're not thinking about that problem, that that interview again. Well, if that's the case and it doesn't resurface into awareness, like, fantastic.

继续做你正在做的事。继续你的生活。你的心理免疫系统已经在幕后完成了它的工作。时间已经过去。情绪的强度已经减弱，你正在迎接下一个挑战，下一个采访。

Keep doing what you do. Move on with your life. Your psychological immune system has done its job behind the scenes. Time has passed. The intensity of the emotions has subsided, and you're off to the next challenge, the next interview.

另一方面，如果你休息一下，分散注意力，然后当你完成后发现自己又在想那次经历，那么这可能是一个信号，好吧。让我重新面对它。现在有了时间的礼物，这通常会缓和我们的情绪强度，现在让我试着更有效地处理这段经历，也许我甚至会叠加另一个转换器，另一个工具来帮助我做到这一点。所以也许我会试着弄清楚，为什么会这样？为什么这次采访不太顺利？

If on the other hand, you take a break, you distract, and then you find yourself thinking about the experience again when you're done, well, then that could be a signal to then, okay. Let me reengage with it. And now with the gift of time, which often moderates the intensity of our emotions, now let me try to work through this experience a little bit more productively, and maybe I'll even layer another shifter, another tool on to help me do that. So maybe I'll try to figure out, well, why did this happen? Why didn't this interview go very well?

我会从距离的角度来思考。好吧，劳里。你认为为什么这次不太顺利？所以你会尝试从一个更客观的角度来处理它。所以你是在那里叠加其他工具。

I'll think about it from a distance perspective. Alright, Laurie. Why do you think this didn't go so well? So you'll try to process it from from a more objective standpoint. So you're you're layering in other tools there.

这是一个很好的过渡，谈到你在书中提到的第三个转换器，即当我们需要调节情绪时，我们可以获得一些视角。这是我们之前在这个节目中讨论过的事情，但请再次解释为什么视角对于转换我们的情绪如此重要。

This is a really nice transition to the third shifter that you mentioned in your book, the fact that we can get a little bit of perspective when we need to regulate our emotions. Now this is something we've talked about on this show before, but explain again why perspective can be so important to shifting our emotions.

视角之所以如此有用，是因为我们都有能力重新构建对自身处境的思考方式。但当我们完全沉浸于情境之中，被情绪淹没时，这种做法往往会显得异常困难。实际上，这一章的标题源于我与一位密友的轶事。不知该如何启齿——某天我与另一对夫妇晚餐后驾车返回，他们在谈论我朋友工作中遭遇的困境。

Well, the reason perspective is so useful is we all have the capacity to reframe how we think about our circumstances. But it can often feel really hard to do that when we are totally immersed in the situation and the emotions are flooding us. Actually, the name of this chapter, it's named after an anecdote with one of my close friends. I don't know how I can actually say this. You know, I was driving back from dinner one day with another couple, and the other couple was talking about a difficult experience that my friend was was having at work.

他妻子对他说：'你何不换个角度想想？' 而他回应道：'说得***轻巧。' 这精准传达了我们共有的体验——明知应该用不同方式思考，应该重构认知，更乐观些，但当下就是难以做到。因此我们发现，此时退后一步，以更抽离的视角审视处境，就像给别人提建议那样，能极大帮助我们实现这种思维转换。

And his wife said to him, well, why don't you just think differently about it? And his response was easier bleeping said than done. To convey, I think, this very common experience we have, which is we know that we can think differently and we should think differently. We should reframe how we're thinking about this, be more optimistic, but we just have hard time doing that in the moment. And so what we've learned is that in those situations, taking a step back, thinking about our circumstances from a more distanced perspective, almost like we're giving advice to someone else, can be really helpful for allowing us to do that.

而你们发现了一种超级简单的语言技巧，只需改变代词使用方式就行，对吧？

And you've come up with a super easy way we can do that linguistically, just how we use different pronouns. Right?

没错。使用自己的名字就是实现这种转换的有效工具。我们通常用'你'来给别人建议，所以当你用'你'来指代自己的问题时——比如'伊森，你为什么要这么做？你认为自己该怎么做？'

That's right. So using your own name and you can be a useful tool for allowing us to do this. So we usually use the word you when we give advice to other people. So when you use the word you to refer to your own problem. So, Ethan, why are you doing this, and what do you think you should do?

这样做会自动切换你的视角，让你进入一种给'他人'提建议的思维模式。这个'他人'恰好是你自己，因此你能完全了解其内心活动，但更易保持客观立场。这是种简单的心理疏离技巧。另一种拓宽视角的强大方法是我称为'思维时间旅行'的方式。

What that does is it it automatically switches your perspective. It puts you in this frame of mind where now you're giving advice to essentially another person. It's another person who happens to be you, so you have full access to everything that's happening inside that person's mind, but it's just easier to do so because you're doing it from that more objective standpoint. So that's one really simple distancing tool that you can use. Another powerful way of broadening our perspective is to do what I call mental time travel.

启动这种人人都具备的'思维时间旅行'能力：想象未来的自己会如何看待此事——下周、下月、明年？注意我提问时仍保持语言距离：'未来的你会对此有何感受？'

So you jump into this mental time travel, which we all possess. You could go into the future and think, so how are you gonna feel about this next week, next month, next year? When you ask yourself that question and notice I'm doing that, still maintaining the linguistic distance. Right? How are you gonna feel about this down the road?

这能让你看清一个终生体验却常在当下忽视的真相：无论情绪多强烈，随时间推移终会消退。情绪反应的典型轨迹就是逐渐衰减。所以'明年这时的我会怎么想？'这个问题本身就蕴含着答案。

What that does is it makes clear to you something you've experienced your entire life, but we often lose sight of it in the moment, which is as awful as our emotions are, as time stretches on, they typically fade. Right? It's a very common trajectory that characterizes emotional responses. As time moves on, they kind of peter out. And so how am I gonna feel about this next year?

我会对此感觉好一些。我一生中经历过无数次这种情况。所以，心理时间机器带你穿越到未来，能帮助你应对。你也可以回到过去。这是拓宽我们视角的另一种方式。

I'm gonna feel better about it. I've lived through that countless times in my life. So mental time travel machine into the future helps you with that. You could also go back in time. It's another way of broadening our perspective.

它的运作方式略有不同。如果我在工作或个人生活中遇到非常棘手的情况，我可以跳进心理时间机器，和我的祖母一起回到1940年代的波兰森林。对吧？此刻我在思考她那时经历的逆境。我不禁感叹，哇。

It works a little differently. If I'm struggling with a really difficult situation at work or in my my personal life, I could jump into the mental time travel machine and go to the the Polish woods in the nineteen forties with my grandmother. Right? Now I'm thinking about the adversity that she experienced back then. And I'm thinking to myself, wow.

如果她能熬过那些，我就能处理好现在面对的事情。这就是回到过去的时间旅行。这些是其他几种疏离情绪的工具。

If she was able to get through this, I can handle what I'm dealing with now. So that's time travel to the past. Those are some other distancing tools.

自我对话和心理时间旅行是理性看待情绪的好方法。但如果强烈情绪仍拖累着你，伊桑有个更激进的建议，帮你与困扰之事保持距离。这个激进建议将在广告后揭晓。良好的沟通对生活至关重要，无论是个人还是职业层面。而我朋友马特·亚伯拉罕的播客《快速思考，聪明说话》能帮助你提升这方面能力。

Self talk and mental time travel are great ways to put your emotions in perspective. But if big feelings are still dragging you down, Ethan has a more radical suggestion for getting some distance between you and whatever's bothering you. That radical suggestion is coming up right after the break. Good communication is essential in life, both personally and professionally. And my friend, Matt Abraham's podcast, think fast, talk smart, can help you do better with that.

每周马特都会与专家（包括我）对谈，分享基于研究的实用技巧，帮助你学习如何深入对话连接、成为更好的倾听者，以及如何在冲突中清晰沟通。本月，《快速思考，聪明说话》推出与科技工具创造者的迷你系列，探讨如何用他们的工具改善职业沟通与生活。若你准备好升级沟通技能，每周二在任意播客平台收听，并访问fastersmarter.io获取更多提升内容。在伊桑·克罗斯新书《转换：管理情绪，不让情绪管理你》中，最让我共鸣的建议是与问题保持物理距离的策略。我没想到的是，他对物理距离力量的见解部分受到了我的启发。

Each week, Matt sits down with experts, including me, to share practical research backed tips to help you learn things like how to connect deeply in conversation, how to be a better listener, and how to communicate clearly through conflict. And this month, think fast, talk smart features a miniseries with tech tool creators on how to use their tools to improve your professional communication and your life. So if you're ready to level up your communication game, listen every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts and find additional content to level up your communication at fastersmarter.io. Of all the tips Ethan Cross outlines in his new book, Shift, Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You, the one that resonates with me most is the strategy of putting some physical space between you and your problems. What I didn't realize was that his insights about the power of physical distance were partly inspired by me.

劳瑞，你提起这个很有趣，因为正是和你讨论过这个问题。或许现在可以轮到我请教你了。在研究这本书时，空间对情绪的调控力量让我震惊。我认为空间就像感官一样，是我们每天睁眼就能看到却完全忽视的情绪管理工具。而你有个关于改变空间如何强烈调节自身情绪反应的精彩故事。

It's funny you bring that up, Laurie, because it was you, Laurie, who I talked to about this. And so maybe I could turn the tides here and ask you about this. So, you know, as I was researching the book, I was struck by the power of of spaces to push our emotions around. I think spaces like our senses are are often a tool for manager emotions that we we see literally every day as long as our eyes are open, but we totally take for granted. And you have a really powerful story about how changing your spaces powerfully modulated your own emotional response.

你愿意和大家分享当时告诉我的经历吗？

So would you mind telling telling folks what you told me?

是啊，是啊。嗯，现在书里都写了，我想大家反正都会读到。是的。不。

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's in the book now, so I guess everybody's gonna read it anyway. Yeah. No.

那段时间我正经历着严重的职业倦怠，作为耶鲁大学校园里一所学院的院长，疫情刚过，我感到精疲力竭，最终做出了离开那个职位的艰难决定。但当我卸任并休息了一段时间后，不得不面对一个问题：好吧，我究竟想去哪里？对吧？

This was around the time that I was experiencing a lot of burnout in my role as a head of college working on Yale's campus where it was just after the pandemic. I was feeling incredibly burned out, and I made the tough decision to leave that role. But when I left that role and had some time off, I had to face the question of like, okay. Well, where do I wanna be? Right?

我在康涅狄格州的家乡有栋房子，本可以搬回去，但我和丈夫并无牵挂。于是我说，何不去个不同的地方？一个远离让我感到倦怠的物理空间，同时又有某些回忆或情感联结的地方。所以我决定搬回读研时的马萨诸塞州剑桥市，从宽敞的院长住宅搬进了小公寓。

I have a house in my hometown in Connecticut that could have moved there, but my husband and I weren't tied to anything. And so I said, well, why don't I go to a different place? A place that's really far away from the physical place where I was experiencing burnout, but also a place that had certain memories for me or certain associations. And so I decided to move back to where I went to grad school in Massachusetts, in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And I moved from my huge head of college house into this smaller apartment.

说实话，这最终让我大大缓解了倦怠感。身处完全不同的环境，感官体验全然刷新，这让我暂时摆脱了耶鲁生活中的棘手问题和压力，能更专注地经营播客，而不是操心实验室之类的事务。

And honestly, I think it was the thing that wound up making me feel much less burned out. Right? I was just in a completely different place with totally different sensory experiences than I was in before. It was a nice way to distract myself from some of the things that were tricky during my life at Yale and some of the stresses I was facing. It allowed me to focus my attention more on running this podcast rather than worrying about my lab and some of these other things.

短短几周内，我就完全恢复了状态。本以为这只是我个人倦怠故事中的偶然，但你想用这个故事来阐释一个深刻原理——场所对情绪转换的重要性。

And within, like, weeks, I was feeling completely better. And and I thought that this was just kind of an accident of my little burnout story, but you wanted to use this story to explain a deep principles about the importance of place for shifting your emotions.

我觉得这是个非常有力的故事。要知道，周围空间往往会影响我们内在的多种转换机制。就像你提到的，它们确实影响我们的注意力——决定我们接触什么。通过影响接触内容，进而作用于感官。我们还会与场所建立情感联结。

Well, I think it's such a powerful story. And, you know, our spaces, the spaces around us often impact multiple shifters that exist inside us. So, like, you were talking about, they certainly impact our attention, like what we're exposed to. And by by impacting what we're exposed to, they have implications for our senses. We also form connections to places.

你故事中最打动我的是，当你回到剑桥时，那里承载着温暖的记忆——那是你求学时期，经历成长的地方。科学研究发现（这个发现未得到应有重视），我们形成场所依恋的方式，与形成人际依恋惊人地相似。我们常讨论对生命中重要个体的依恋——父母、照料者、伴侣、朋友这些能提供安全感的存在。但其实，我们也会对场所产生依恋。

And what really stood out to me about your story when I think about it is when you moved back to Cambridge, Cambridge had these warm associations attached to it. This is where you were a student and you had these formative experiences. And what we've learned in the science that I think doesn't get as much attention as it deserves is we routinely form attachments to places in a way that is similar to the way we form attachment to people to other people. So we talk a lot about attachment to other individuals in our lives, attachment figures who when we're in the presence of those figures, this provides us with a sense of safety and support, parents, caretakers, partners, friends. Well, we also form attachments to to places.

当你充分置身于一个你由衷喜爱、同时能给予你安全感的地方时。让我以我的孩子们为例——这很有趣，当你学习新事物时，总会不自觉地用自身经历去解读。我记得孩子们小时候难过时总会做件奇妙的事：他们只想回家。而到家后，他们又非要躲进自己房间不可。

And when you're enough in the presence of a place that you are positively attached to, that likewise gives you this sense of safety and security. I'll bring this back to my kids. I when I you know, it's it's funny when you learn new material and you filter it through the lens of your own experiences. I remember when my kids were upset, they always used to do this curious thing when they were little and just they just just wanted to go home. And when we got home, they'd wanna go in their room.

这恰恰给了他们安全感。事实证明不仅小孩如此，我们所有人都需要这种安全感。我认为这给我们的启示是：要在情绪触发前未雨绸缪。比如，生活中哪些空间具有让我们感到安心舒适的治愈属性？

And that just provided them with a sense of security. And so it turns out that's not just true of little kids. It's true of all of us. And I think the invitation that extends to us is to is to do some thinking ahead of time before the triggers ignite. Like, what are the spaces in our lives that have those restorative properties that make us feel safe and secure?

我在安娜堡周边标记了好几处这样的正能量场所（比喻意义上的地图标记），我知道该去哪里。就像电影里中情局特工的安全屋——当被人追捕时总有地方可躲。我有自己的秘密基地：法学院四方院是个绝美的所在，还有植物园。

I have I have several of these positive spaces located around Ann Arbor that I've, like, marked on a map figuratively, and I know where to go. It's like in the movies, you know, where there's a safe house for the CI agent when they need to escape people who are getting going after them. Like, I've got my my safe spots. There's the law school quadrangle here, which is just this magnificently beautiful space. There's the arboretum.

还有我的家。这些地方只要置身其中，无需刻意做什么就能自动调节我的情绪。

There's my home. Those are places I can go to, and they they are managing my emotions without me having to do anything by just being in that place.

但你也提到过更本地化的空间管理方法对吧？像我的情况是直接换了城市，但并非人人能做到。你说的是在自己城镇里寻找特定场所。

But you've also talked about ways that we can manage our spaces in more local ways. Right? Like, my situation is a case where I, you know, literally move cities. Not everybody can do that. You're talking about kind of within your town specific spaces you can go to.

你还谈到如何将日常空间改造成情绪调节器，具体该怎么做呢？

You've talked about how we can take our local spaces and make them more emotionally regulatory. How do we do that?

没错，这非常关键——改变空间是种奢侈，我们并非总能做到。宏观上可以通过空间转移来调节情绪，但微观层面也有办法：利用即时环境。有很多可行方案，比如我们和其他研究都发现：在周围放置依恋对象的照片就很有效。

Yeah. This is, I think, a really important point because changing your space is a luxury we don't always have the ability to engage in. You could think of that as like a macro way of moving our emotions around via spaces, but then there's a more micro way you could do this. There's a way of harnessing your immediate spaces, And there are lots of things you could do here. There's research that we and others have done where you put pictures of attachment figures in your surroundings.

所以是所爱之人的照片。研究表明，当你在思考负面事情后瞥见所爱之人的照片，能加快你从情绪波动中恢复的速度，对吧？因此，做完这项研究后，我疯狂购买相框，在办公室各处都摆上了所爱之人的照片。这就是在环境中添加新事物，推动你朝想要的方向发展。

So pictures of loved ones. Research shows that when you glance at a picture of a loved one after thinking about something negative, it speeds the pace at which you recover from emotional turbulence. Right? So, you know, after I did that research, I went on a picture frame shopping spree, and I put pictures of loved ones all around my offices. So that's putting something new in your environment to push you in a direction where you wanna go.

另一个例子是植物。我们知道观看绿色事物的图像——如植物、树木、花朵——同样具有恢复平静的效果。你可以想象以这种方式装饰你的空间。当然，你也可以通过移除那些将情绪推向错误方向的事物来改造空间。方法多种多样。

Another example of that would be plants. We know that looking at images of green things, so plants and trees, flowers, this also has restorative calming effects. So you can imagine decorating your space in that way. You can also modify your space, though, by removing things that are pushing your emotions in the wrong direction. Lots of ways you could do this.

我们现在交谈时，我把手机翻面朝下。这样我就通过调整空间减少了干扰，避免它妨碍我们的对话。我在书里讲过一个真实的故事，千真万确。

We're talking right now, and I have my cell phone turned over. So I've now modified my space to reduce a distractor, which would get in the way of our conversation. I tell a story in the book. True story. This is true.

我经常这样做：每当有人来家里看橄榄球赛时，我总会过量订购披萨。我知道如果不在朋友离开前把每片披萨送出去，晚上十点到十二点之间我就会下楼到厨房，吃掉冷掉的披萨。享用过程中我会获得极其愉悦的情绪体验，但这种体验会在吃完的瞬间消失，接着整晚难以入睡。所以解决方案是——我通过调整空间消除这种干扰和诱惑。

I've done this many times. I tend to over order pizza whenever we have people over to watch football. And I know that if I don't give every single slice of pizza away before our friends leave the house, I will come down to the kitchen at between ten and twelve at night, and I will eat the cold pizza. And I will have such a positive emotional experience while doing so that will then end the second I finish consuming it, and then I won't be able to sleep at night. So the solution, I'm modifying my space to remove that as a distractor, as a temptation.

因此你可以改造空间，精心设计周围环境，帮助你获得想要的情绪状态。

So you can modify your spaces and and really architect your surroundings to help you achieve the emotions that you want to achieve.

这就引出了本期要讨论的最后一个情绪转换器——存在于我们空间中的要素，也是我切换物理空间时努力实践的：让自己置身于不同人群之中。人际关系同样是强大的转换器。请解释情绪传染的概念，以及为何它能成为转变情绪的有力工具。

And that gets us to the final shifter that we'll talk about in this episode, which is something that exists in our space and definitely something that I tried to do when I physically move spaces, which is I wanted to surround myself with different people. Our relationships can also be big shifters. Explain this idea of emotional contagion and why it could be a powerful tool for changing our emotions around.

关于他人——作为社会性物种，我们的情绪会强烈参照他人，以及我们如何看待和互动。情绪传染就是绝佳例证。大量研究表明，当我们不确定如何应对特定情境时，会参考他人反应，因为他人是丰富的信息源。当然，这可能将我们引向积极或消极的方向，对吧？

So other people, we are a social species, and our emotions are powerfully calibrated against other people and how we think about them and interact with them. And emotional contagion is a great example of this. There's lots of research that shows that when we are not sure of how to respond in a given situation, we reference other people because other people are a rich source of information. Now that can push us in good or bad directions. Right?

所以，你知道，房间里一张皱眉的脸会迅速引发更多皱眉的脸。微笑和快乐同样具有传染性。我在主持研讨会时经常做这个练习，向团队展示情绪传染的力量——我把人们分成小组，让每组推选一名领导者。我把领导者带出去，然后数一二一二一二，接着说：好了，

So, you know, one frowning face in a room can quickly lead to many other frowning faces. Smile and joy can spread as well. I do this exercise often with groups when I when I lead workshops to demonstrate the power of emotional contagion where I break people up into groups, then I ask each member of the group to volunteer a leader. And so I take the leaders out, and then I count off one two one two one two. And then say, alright.

一号组，几分钟后我会和你们一起回到房间。我会给你们一个非常棘手的问题解决。我希望一号组的领导者成为超级支持型的啦啦队长。然后我转向二号组，他们大概猜到接下来会发生什么。

Ones, I'm gonna go back into the room with you in a few minutes. I'm gonna give you a really hard problem to solve. I want the ones to be an ultra supportive cheerleading leader. And then I turn to the twos. They kinda know what's coming.

他们紧张地笑着。我说：好了，二号组。你们知道我要你们扮演什么角色——我要你们当混蛋。我要你们面无表情，充满否定，

They're kinda nervously laughing. And I say, alright, twos. You know who I want you to be. I want you to be the a holes. I want you to be stoic, disapproving.

不要给予任何正面反馈。我向他们保证练习结束后会立即进行全员复盘。当他们回到房间解决问题时，领导者们严格执行我的指令。劳瑞，看着这些小组在几秒内截然不同的反应非常惊人——积极领导的小组大声头脑风暴，

Don't give much positive reinforcement. I assure them that I will debrief everyone the moment the exercise is over. And then they go back into the rooms, they work on this problem, and the leaders follow the orders I've given them. It is remarkable, Laurie, to see how these different groups respond within seconds. The groups of the positive leaders, they're brainstorming out loud.

他们咯咯笑，开怀大笑，乐在其中。而另一组却无人发言，只是盯着纸张发呆。

They're giggling. They're laughing. They're having fun. In the other groups, like, no one is talking. They're just looking at the piece of paper.

对吧？因为领导者的情绪已经蔓延至整个团队。这种现象不仅存在于面对面交流，社交媒体上也频繁发生，并可能产生重大影响——道德愤怒往往就是这样扩散的。

Right? Because the emotion of the leader has then spread throughout the rest of the group. We see this, of course, playing out not just in person to person context. It happens on social media a lot in ways that can have really consequential effects. So this is often how moral outrage spreads.

当然也有积极情绪在网络中传播的案例。我认为，仅仅意识到这一点对我们所有人都至关重要：首先，作为领导者（无论是在组织、朋友圈还是家庭中），要明白你带来的情绪基调会直接感染他人，且往往无需明确指示；若希望团队朝特定方向前进，而对其中不协调的声音保持敏感，就需要立即遏制这种反应。情绪传染生动展示了他人如何影响我们。

There are also instances in which you see positivity spreading within networks too. So simply being aware of this, I think, can be very important for all of us. Number one, if you are in a leadership point of view, whether it be in an organization, in a friend group, in a family, recognize that the emotional tone that you bring to a situation directly impacts other people often without any explicit direction. If you're a leader, you might also wanna be aware of the fact that if you want this group to be pushing in a particular direction and there's one voice or one person there that maybe isn't abiding by that, you wanna be sensitive to that too and nip that reaction in the bud right away. But emotional contagion is a really powerful illustration of how other people can affect us.

这确实也给了我们一个机会。你知道吗？有时我们会把情绪传染看作一件可怕的事，比如‘我只能被团队中每个人的情绪左右’。但我觉得你也能意识到，这同样是个机会。通过自身行动，你可以让团队中真正需要的情感得以展现。

It also really gives us an opportunity. You know? Sometimes we can think about emotional contagion as this terrible thing of like, oh, I'm just at the mercy of everybody's emotions on my team or whatever. But I think you also can recognize that that's an opportunity. You can see the emotions that you really want to see in the group, like, through your own actions.

某种程度上，这正是你作为家庭领袖在车里和女儿听《Don't Stop Believing》时所做的。你本可能被她的忧郁情绪感染而沮丧，但你选择说‘不，只要我调整自己，她也会跟着改变’。

And in some ways, this is what you were doing as the leader of your family with your daughter in the car with don't stop believing. Right? You could have kind of caught her glum emotion and felt bad, but you're like, no. No. If I shift myself, it's gonna shift her too.

我认为这才是真正的机遇——我们可以把自己作为支点，不仅调节自身情绪，还能为我们关心的人进行情绪管理。

And I think this is the real opportunities that we can use ourselves as these pivot points to not just shift our own emotions, but emotionally regulate for the people we care about too.

完全赞同。这个总结既深刻又精辟，阐明了这些转变机制如何相互关联——它们不仅影响你管理生活的方式，更会波及周围人。理想状态下，你会积极影响他人。这种影响还能进一步扩散，因为我们对情绪调节原理的理解，同样能塑造所属群体的文化。比如我参与的每个群体都有独特文化，而我始终在明确传达关于情绪管理的价值观。

Could couldn't agree more. And, you know, that's a it's a really pro profound and eloquent way of summarizing how a lot of these shifters come together because they have implications for not only the way you manage your own life, but how you affect those around you. And ideally, you're motivated to affect those around you in a positive direction. But you can also mushroom out even further because our understanding of how these principles of emotion regulation work, they also have the opportunity to shape the the cultures of the groups that we belong to. So, you know, I belong to a bunch of different groups characterized by different cultures, and I'm constantly trying to be explicit about the values and beliefs I have about emotion and emotion regulation.

这些存在状态至关重要，值得我们投入更多精力去培养。因为这将帮助人们更高效地思考和工作，提升人际关系质量与健康水平。所以我清晰阐明自己对该文化的信念，并通过实际行动支撑——不只是空谈，而是通过互动建立强化这些价值观的行为规范。

These are states of being that I think are really important and I think we need to spend more time investing in because doing so is gonna help people think and perform more effectively at work. It's gonna improve the quality of relationships and their health. So I'm being really clear about what my beliefs are for this culture, and I'm backing that up. I'm not just saying that. I'm interacting with folks in ways that establish norms that reinforce my values and beliefs.

我甚至会给人们提供工具来磨练这种转变能力。这就是将认知转化为行动，最终改变群体文化的方式——我认为这是我们共同面临的重要挑战。

And I'm even giving people some tools to try to hone these these abilities to shift. And so that's the way you go from knowing about something to try and to actually shift a culture around a topic, which I think is a really important challenge we all we all have in front of us.

太棒了。我想我们离‘脑袋开洞’的原始疗法已经进步很多了。

That's great. We've come a long way from holes in the head, I think.

我们很庆幸已经从在头上钻孔的原始疗法走了很远。我认为，虽然还有很多需要学习，但我们已经积累了大量关于如何管理这种被称为情绪及其生活的奇妙事物的深刻见解。若能了解并运用这些知识，我们都能更好地过上理想的情绪生活。

I just got We thankfully have come a very long way from putting holes in our head. And I think, you know, look, there's there's a lot more we have to learn, but but we have amassed a pretty compelling set of insights regarding how we manage this wacky, you know, thing called emotions and our emotional life. And I think we'd all be a whole lot better off informing ourselves of what we've learned and and using it to help us live the emotional lives we wanna live.

我非常感激伊森和其他科学家们提供了调节强烈情绪的实际方法。在工作和生活压力之间，更不用说政治和地球现状，我最近经常感受到恐惧、焦虑和不堪重负等强烈情绪。很高兴能获得伊森帮助我寻找内心平静的建议，这比让人在我头上钻孔好多了。让我们快速回顾一下。

I'm so grateful that Ethan and so many other scientists have given us practical tools for regulating our big feelings. Between work stress and life stress, not to mention politics and the state of the planet, I experience big feelings like fear, anxiety, and overwhelm a lot these days. I'm so happy I've gotten Ethan's tips for helping me find peace. They're much better than having someone drill a hole in my head. Let's quickly recap.

首先，准备一份应对强烈情绪的歌单。当你感到害怕或悲伤时，播放一些让人愉悦的音乐来驱散这种情绪。我个人认为，像Journey这样的经典摇滚绝对是上佳选择。伊森的第二个建议是转移注意力，有很多快速方法可以将自己从强烈情绪中抽离出来。

First up, prepare a big emotions playlist. If you're scared or sad, dispel that mood by hitting play on some feel good music. Personally, I think some dad rock like journey is definitely the way to go. Ethan's second tip, divert your attention. There are plenty of quick ways to distract yourself away from big emotions.

尝试去跑步，或者我最喜欢的——玩一局Wordle填字游戏。第三个建议是退后一步，以陌生人的视角看待你的问题：情况真的如此糟糕吗？教练或导师会建议你怎么做？调节情绪的第四个方法是与困扰你的事物保持物理距离。

Try going for a run or my favorite, solving a Wordle. Tip three is to take a step back and view your problems as a stranger might see them. Are things actually so bleak? What would a coach or mentor say about what you should do? The fourth way to regulate your emotions is to get some physical distance from what's upsetting you.

离开家或工作场所。记住，逃离让你感到压力的环境能创造奇迹。伊森控制强烈情绪的最终策略是让自己置身于积极的人群中——就像远离令你不快的地点一样，我们也可以通过暂时远离那些引发负面情绪的朋友、同事或亲人来获益。但最重要的是，一个元建议是：记住你的情绪是有功能的。

Get out of your home or workplace. Remember that escaping the environment that's stressing you out can work wonders. And Ethan's final strategy to tame big feelings is to surround yourself with positive people, just like getting away from a location that's upsetting you. We can benefit by taking a break from the friends, coworkers, or loved ones who are spiking our negative emotions. But above all, a meta tip, if you will, is to remember that your emotions are functional.

如果你感到孤独，或老板说了让你不快的话，或政客推行了令你愤怒的政策，这些情绪都是促使你采取行动的信号。但一旦你明白了强烈情绪要教会你什么，它就已经完成了使命，是时候让这种情绪过去了。也是时候让我们的《应对指南》系列继续前进了——下期我们将探讨适度有益但过度控制生活则危害极大的事物：如何对抗压力。

If you're feeling lonely or if your boss says something that upsets you or if a politician enacts some policy that gets you red with anger, that's a signal for you to take action. But once you've figured out what your big feeling is there to teach you, that big feeling has done its job, and it's time for that big feeling to move on. It's also time for our how to season to move on. Next up, we'll be looking at something that's super useful in small doses but can prove very harmful when it's allowed to rule our lives. We'll be exploring how to fight stress.

下次《幸福实验室》节目，由劳里·桑托斯博士为您呈现。这里是iHeart播客。

That's next time on The Happiness Lab with me, doctor Laurie Santos. This is an iHeart podcast.