如何过上最富足的人生

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

我们都对人生的重大命题充满好奇：我们为何存在？该做些什么？如何理解这一切？在《Ye Gods with Scott Carter》节目中，我与政客、神父、演员及无神论者畅谈他们如何应对生命的奥秘。

We all wonder about life's big questions. Why are we here? What are we to do? And how to make sense of it all? On Ye Gods with Scott Carter, I talk with politicos, priests, actors, and atheists on how they wrestle with life's mysteries.

他们的故事将引发思考、挑战固有观念，或许还能为你带来

Their stories will spark reflection, challenge assumptions, and maybe even bring you

关于自身人生旅程的些许明晰。

some clarity on your own journey.

欢迎收听《Yee Gods》，

Listen to Yee Gods,

NPR旗下节目，各大播客平台均可订阅。

part of the NPR network, wherever you get your podcasts.

Pushkin出品。积极心理学——这门研究幸福科学的学科——在过去几十年取得了长足进展。即便在我主持这档节目的五年间制作了数百期节目，我们也仅仅触及了那些精彩研究的皮毛。我们探讨过善待自我与仁慈待人的积极影响，却较少提及走出舒适区、尝试陌生甚至不适事物带来的幸福感提升。有些人似乎格外热衷突破这些边界。

Pushkin. Positive psychology, the field that studies the science of happiness, has made a lot of progress in the last few decades. So much so that we've only been able to scratch the surface on all the cool studies out there, even in the hundreds of episodes I've hosted in the five years of the show. We've spent time looking at the positive effects of treating yourself better and being kind to others, but we haven't talked as much about the happiness boost we can get from getting out of our comfort zones and taking on unfamiliar or even uncomfortable things. Some people seem to love pushing these boundaries.

你知道这类人。有人徒步穿越整个大陆，建立野生动物保护区，为某项新发明申请专利，然后放下一切成为小说家。这些人看似超凡脱俗，但他们确实存在。一位幸福科学领域的专家认为，我们应该更多地关注他们。

You know the type. Someone who treks across an entire continent, sets up a wildlife sanctuary, patents some new invention, and drops everything to become a novelist. These people can seem larger than life, but they do exist. And one expert in well-being science thinks we should pay more attention to them.

非常感谢邀请我。抱歉，我今天有点忙得团团转。

So thank you so much for having me. I'm sorry. I'm just running around today.

是啊，我真的很喜欢这本新书。

Yeah. I really enjoyed the new book.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thank you.

重石茂在芝加哥大学教授心理学，他提出过去的幸福衡量标准遗漏了某些至关重要的东西——他称之为心理丰富的人生。什么是心理丰富？重石在他的新书《三维人生：好奇心、探索与经历如何创造更充实、更美好的生活》中阐释了这一概念。书中指出，即便我们无法都成为周游世界的发明家诗人并与电影明星交往，我们仍可通过适度调整让生活多一些变化。准备好聆听他的策略吧，让重石教我们如何活出最丰富的人生。

Shige Oishi teaches psychology at the University of Chicago, and he's argued that past measures of happiness have missed something really important, what he calls the psychologically rich life. What is psychological richness? Well, Shige explains this concept in his new book, Life in Three Dimensions, How Curiosity, Exploration, and Experience make a fuller, better life. Shige's book explains that even if we can't all become globetrotting inventor poets who hang out with movie stars, we can make some modest changes to mix up our lives a bit. So get ready to hear his strategies as Shige teaches us how to live the richest life possible.

重石最初是在一次职业生涯中期的自我反思中开始思考心理丰富性的。

Shige first began thinking about psychological richness during a bout of mid career self reflection.

我从1995年开始研究幸福。那时研究幸福的实验室非常非常少，我们做了各种关于谁幸福、什么使人幸福的研究。到2015年时，我已获得终身教职，是弗吉尼亚大学的正教授。突然意识到：天啊，我研究幸福已经二十年了。

I've studied happiness since 1995. At that time, there were very, very few labs studying happiness, and we did all kinds of studies about who is happy, what makes people happy. And in 2015, at the time, already had tenure. I was a full professor at the University of Virginia. And it just hit me that, oh my gosh, I've been studying happiness for twenty years.

我们学到了什么？这个领域最大的争论是什么？我必须说，意识到我们一直在争论这个问题确实让人有些难过。究竟哪个更重要，是个人幸福——让自己快乐，有时甚至可能以他人为代价，还是让他人快乐，即使以自己为代价？最终，这场二十年的辩论结果就像，当然，两者都重要，幸福与意义。

What did we learn? And what was the biggest debate in the field? And I have to say, was really sort of sad to realize that we've been debating this. Which one is more important, personal happiness, to make yourself happy, maybe even at the expense of others sometimes, or to make others happy, even at the expense of oneself? In the end, the result of this twenty years debate was like, of course, both are important, happiness and meaning.

我当时就想，哇，我是不是浪费了二十年追寻这个问题？但紧接着下一个问题出现了。我对自己的生活感到快乐吗？我对妻子和孩子感到相当快乐，并且觉得我的生活很有意义。

And I was like, wow, did I waste my twenty years pursuing this question? But then the next question came up. Am I happy with my life? And I was pretty happy with my wife and kids. And I found my life to be pretty meaningful.

我的意思是，我的社会心理学课非常受欢迎。我和孩子们一起打棒球。我觉得自己在这个社会中扮演了一些角色。但当我问自己这个问题——如果我感到快乐并且觉得生活有意义，这是否就是完整的人生？在那一刻，我无法给出肯定的答案。

I mean, my social psych class was very popular. I played baseball with my kids. I felt like I have some roles in this society. But then when I asked this question of if I'm happy and find my life to be meaningful, is it the complete life? And at that point, I couldn't say yes.

所以学期开始时，我就问学生们，你们怎么看？如果你们拥有幸福和意义，这是否就是完整的人生？其中一半人觉得，当然，别太贪心。我是说，这已经很多了。但另一半人则认为，是的，也许还缺少些什么。

So when the semester started, I just asked students, what do you think? If you have happiness and meaning, is it the complete life? And half of them were like, of course, don't be so greedy. I mean, like, that that's a lot. But then the other half was like, yeah, maybe something is missing.

我们开始审视那些缺失的部分，以及相反的情况——有些人并不觉得自己的生活幸福或有意义，但可能仍然过着美好的生活。最终，我们找到了许多这样的例子，比如奥利弗·萨克斯的生活或安东尼·波登的生活。我们决定将这种生活称为心理丰富的生活。所以我的书名为《三维人生》。第一维度是幸福，第二维度是有意义的生活，而我们认为第三维度是心理丰富的生活。

And we started to look at those missing parts and also the reverse, that somebody who doesn't feel their life is happy or meaningful, but maybe still leading good life. And in the end, we were able to find a lot of examples of that, like Oliver Sacks' life or Anthony Bourdain. We decided to call this psychologically rich life. So my book is entitled Life in Three Dimensions. So we got the first dimension, which is happiness, and the second dimension, which is a meaningful life, and the third dimension, we think, is a psychologically rich life.

本质上，即使你没有幸福或意义，也许还有第三种美好的生活。如果你拥有幸福和意义，那么丰富性会增添一些东西，你就拥有了一切。你生活在三维中。这就是基本前提。

And essentially, even if you don't have happiness or meaning, perhaps there is a third good life. And if you have happiness and meaning, then richness will add something, and you got it all. You lived in three dimension. So that's the basic premise.

我很喜欢这个观点。在书中，你一开始比较了你和你父亲的生活。我不知道你是否愿意分享那个故事。

I love that. And so in the book, you started with this comparison between your life and your dad's life. I don't know if you're comfortable sharing that story.

是的。我父亲今年90岁了。他出生并成长在九州南部的一个小镇上。和他的父亲、祖父、曾祖父以及更早的祖先一样，他15岁就成了一名全职农民。他一生都生活在同一个镇子，周围是那些从小一起长大的伙伴。

Yeah. So my dad is 90 years old. He was born and raised in this small town in Southern Island Of Kyushu. Like his father, grandfather, great grandfathers, older ancestors, he essentially became a full time farmer when he was 15. And he lived his life in the same town surrounded by the same people he grew up with.

他27岁结婚，至今仍和我母亲生活在一起。他热爱农场生活，也喜欢泡温泉，所以经常和妻子、家人朋友一起去温泉。

He got married when he was 27. He still live with my mom. And he loved life on the farm. He loves hot springs. So he goes to Hot springs with his wife and family and friends.

那是一种非常安逸的生活。而我，显然也出生在这个家庭，原本被期望继承农场。但我从小就对务农毫无兴趣，事实上，我很讨厌它。

And it's a really cozy life. And meanwhile, I was born to the same family, obviously. So I was expected to take over the farm. But from early on, I show no interest in farming. Indeed, I hated it.

所以我很早就知道必须离开这里。高中一毕业，我就去了700英里外的东京。我们高中没几个人去东京，虽然父母说可以上大学，但他们以为我会留在当地——那里也有不少好大学。但我以最快速度逃到了最远的地方。

So I knew from early on, I got to get out of here. As soon as I graduated from high school, I left my hometown for Tokyo, which is like 700 miles away. So very, very few people from my high school went to Tokyo. So my dad and mom, when they said, yeah, you can go to college, I think they were expecting me to stay in that region because there are a lot of good college there too. But just I left as far as I can, as quickly as I can.

大学毕业后，我在明尼苏达找到第一份工作，之后搬到弗吉尼亚、纽约市，又回到弗吉尼亚，再迁往芝加哥。如果说父亲的人生是稳定、熟悉与传统，那我的人生恰恰相反——永远在路上。有时我会想：当初为何要这样？明明可以留在故乡，每晚喝着清酒和老友聊天，那其实也是很好的人生。

After graduating from college, I got my first job in Minnesota, moved to Virginia, moved to New York City, went back to Virginia, and moved again to Chicago. So if my dad's life is life of stability, familiarity, tradition, probably my life is complete opposite, constant move, move, move on the go. Sometimes I really feel like, wow, why did I do this? I was like, I could have just stayed there, have sake every night, chat with my old friends. And indeed, I think that's a good life.

我父亲没什么遗憾，他很满足。但我们的生活方式确实天差地别。

My dad doesn't have much regret. He is very content. But, yeah, it is very, very, very different.

我特别喜欢这个故事，它完美诠释了心理层面丰富人生的独特性。不过我想先拆解前两个关于幸福的概念：首先是传统意义上的幸福，能否先说明下学者们对'幸福'的定义？

And so I love that story because it so nicely illustrates the sort of distinction of a psychologically rich life. But I wanna start by unpacking the sort of first two ideas of, like, happiness that we've sort of had so far. The first is this idea of happiness. Maybe just gonna give me a sense of what we mean by happiness, like, or, like, scholars mean by this.

没错。我们所说的幸福不仅仅是指一种情绪、短暂的心情。它实际上关乎你是否对自己的生活感到快乐，生活进展如何，结果怎样。因此，这与对生活的满足感非常相似。事实证明，许多与幸福相关的因素都与稳定的生活有关。

Right. So we don't mean happiness by the just a mood, temporary mood. But it is really about whether you're happy about your life, how it's going, how it has turned out. So it's very similar to a sense of satisfaction with your life. And it turned out that a lot of factors that are associated with happiness are something to do with the stable life.

稳定的关系是预测幸福生活的首要因素。与朋友、家人的亲密关系，婚姻满意度，伴侣满意度都极其重要。而且，财务安全和稳定性越来越重要。这有点意思。回顾1995年，家庭收入与幸福感、生活满意度之间的相关性约为0.15，并不那么强。

So stable relationship is the number one predictor of happy life. So close relationship with your friend, family, marital satisfaction, so partner satisfaction is extremely important. And more and more, the financial securities and stability is very, very important. So this is kind of interesting. Back in 1995, correlation between household income and happiness, our life satisfaction was like 0.15, which is not that strong.

但我们从1970年代的调查数据中观察了过去大约十五年的历史趋势，可以清晰地看到这种相关性在上升。财务稳定性变得非常非常重要。这实际上意味着许多人在财务上挣扎，许多人有关系问题。因此，幸福对他们来说变得遥不可及。

But we looked at historically last fifteen years or so from the 1970 surveys, and we clearly see the correlation going up. So financial stability is very, very important. That actually means that a lot of people are financially struggling. A lot of people have relationship issues. So happiness has become sort of out of reach for them.

所以这是另一个原因，让我思考或许存在另一种方式来构想美好生活，不依赖于这种稳定和舒适的生活模式。

So that's another reason why I thought maybe there is another way to conceptualize a good life that doesn't rely on this sort of life of stabilities and comfort.

你还提出我们有时会陷入你所说的'幸福陷阱'。是的。当我们专注于幸福的某些方面时，我们可能会误解它。这个幸福陷阱具体包括哪些部分？

You've also argued that we sometimes face what you've called the happiness trap. Yeah. That when we focus on certain aspects of happiness, we get it wrong. What are the parts of this happiness trap?

是的。我认为幸福陷阱在美国尤为突出。当你问美国人，听到'幸福'这个词会联想到什么时，人们常提到成功或辛勤工作的回报。当你将幸福等同于成功时，如果你不快乐，就意味着你在失败。

Yeah. I think happiness trap is particularly salient phenomena in The United States. So when you ask Americans, what do you associate when you hear the word happiness? People often talk about success or reward for all hard work. So when you equate happiness with success, then when you're not happy, you're failing.

这真的很不幸。作为一名文化心理学家，我也发现这种现象非常令人困惑。当我来到美国时，我问人们'你好吗？'，每个人都说'很好'。而在日本，当有人问'你好吗？'时...

And this is really unfortunate. And this is something as a cultural psychologist I found very puzzling too. When I came to United States, I asked Ren, how are you? And everybody say, great. In Japan, when somebody say, how are you?

我说，还行吧，一般般。然后对话就会变成，是啊，我也是。就像我们在互相安慰。这就是文化常态。所以没有必须快乐的压力，尤其是当你并不感到快乐的时候。

I say, okay, so so. And the conversation goes, yeah, me too. It's like we commiserate. And that's the cultural norm. So there is no pressure to be happy, especially when you're not feeling happy.

你可以直接说，我不开心。但在美国，尤其是大学生，可能是精英大学的学生，特别是在耶鲁这样的学府，我认为存在着巨大的快乐压力。我所说的幸福陷阱是指，人们认为因为快乐是成功的标志，所以我不该有这些负面情绪。这才是这个陷阱真正棘手和危险的地方。每个人都会遇到不顺心的事。

You can say, I'm not happy. But in The States, especially college students, maybe elite college students, and in particular at your institution like Yale, I think there's tremendous pressure to feel happy. And what I mean by happiness trap is that people think that because happiness is an indicator of success, I shouldn't be feeling these negative emotions. And that's the really the difficult and dangerous part of this this trap. Stuff happens to everyone.

对吧？坏事也会发生在好人身上。当事情发生时，如果你没有必须快乐的压力，你就能更自然地接受这些人生路上的小坎坷。而如果你觉得自己必须完美、必须成功、必须时刻快乐，你就会反复纠结这些小挫折。而这种纠结，恰恰是抑郁的前兆。

Right? Bad events happen to the good people. And when things happen, if you don't have this pressure to feel happy, you are just much more naturally accepting of this particular minor bump in the road. Whereas if you feel like you have to be perfect, you have to be successful, you have to be happy all the time, then you really ruminate these little failures. And rumination, of course, is a precursor to depression.

这就是我所说的幸福陷阱。

So that's what I mean by happiness trap.

那么这是否意味着，单纯追求幸福——也就是生活中感觉良好——是行不通的？但你也曾提出，寻求意义可能也不像我们通常假设的那样顺利，追求有意义的人生同样可能存在挑战。你指的是什么？

So that suggests that kind of solely going for this idea of happiness is sort feeling good in your life doesn't work. But you've also argued that seeking meaning might not go as smoothly as we often assume either, that there might be some challenges with seeking out a meaningful life too. What do you mean?

没错。你听过的任何毕业演讲都在说：要成就伟业，去改变世界吧。你们如此聪明——这倒是事实。但当你想到那些改变世界的人，比如马丁·路德·金、罗莎·帕克斯、甘地...

Yeah. So any graduation speech you hear is like, be great. Go out there and change the world. You guys are so smart, which is true. But when you think about somebody who changed the world, Martin Luther King Jr, Rosa Park, Gandhi, sure.

我能做到吗？大概率不能。我认为当我们思考有意义的人生时，常常联想到那些做出巨大贡献的人。这种想法会让你陷入自我否定，觉得自己没有活出意义。这是问题的一个方面。

Can I do that? Probably not. I think when we think about the meaningful life, we often think about somebody who made a huge difference. And I think that will set yourself up for the failure that you are not leading a meaningful life. So that's one part.

但另一方面，如果你观察那些真正报告自己过着有意义生活的人，他们并没有做出那种宏大的改变。他们真正关注的是自己的邻里、教堂等小范围的事物。比如每周四去施粥处服务。当然，长期坚持这么做后，你确实能在社区中产生影响，而且这种影响完全没有任何负面影响。

But the other part is that if you look at the people who are actually reporting that they are leading a meaningful life, they are not making that kind of differences. They are really focusing on their neighborhood, their churches, and things that is small. And they can go to soup kitchen every Thursday and serve. And of course, you do that over the years. Then you make a difference in your communities, which has no bad consequences at all.

只是研究有时发现，那些自称生活有意义的人，往往也倾向于支持右翼威权主义——不仅仅是政治保守派。这种右翼威权主义的特点是对小圈子内的人关怀备至，但有时对外部群体成员表现出强烈的敌意。所以我所说的'意义陷阱'，一是目标过于宏大难以实现，二是我们容易过度狭隘，只关注亲近之人的福祉，却常常忽视外部群体成员，这可能带来潜在危险。

Just that the study sometimes find that the people who say their life is meaningful, they tend also to say that they endorse right wing authoritarianism, not just the political conservatives. That type of right wing authoritarianism comes with a very small in group whom you take care very carefully, but sometimes show huge antagonism against the outgroup members. So when I say there is a meaning trap, one is that it seems so grand that it seems impossible to achieve. But the second one is actually we tend to go too narrow and focus on the well-being of the close others, but we often neglect outgroup members. So that could be potentially dangerous.

所以追求幸福存在某些危险，如果方式不当，追求有意义的生活也存在风险。你提到的一项有趣研究是向受试者询问关于心理丰富性的体验...

So there's some danger in seeking out happiness. There's some danger in seeking out a life of meaning if you kind of get it wrong. One of the studies you point to, which I think is fun, is sort of asking subjects about a psychologically rich So

早期刚开始心理丰富性研究时，我们很想了解什么样的经历算心理丰富。于是我问一群学生：'你们周末做了什么让你开心的事？'他们回答比如'去了最喜欢的餐厅'之类的。

early on, when we just started psychological richness research, we really wanted to see what might be a psychologically rich event. So to a group of students, I asked, Okay, what did you do over the weekend? What makes you happy? And then they say things like, yeah, I went to my favorite restaurant. Yeah, sure.

去熟悉的餐厅，你清楚要点什么，这是可预测的、可靠的快乐。然后我问'什么是有意义的经历？'很多人说'去教堂让我感到有意义'，也有人说'帮助正在赶论文的朋友'——这很合理，因为让他人快乐是意义感的重要组成部分。

Going to a favorite restaurant, you know exactly what to order. That's the predictable, reliable joy and happiness. So I ask then, what was the meaningful event? And a lot of people say, oh, I went to church and it felt meaningful. And some say, I helped out my friends who was just struggling writing the paper, which makes sense because making other people happy is an important part of the meaningful.

接着我问'哪些经历让你感到心理丰富？'这里心理丰富指的是未必快乐或有意义，但与众不同、新奇的事。一个叫瑞秋的人说'看到个半裸打字的男人，我从没见过有人在公共场合赤膊打字，奇怪的是天气并不热'。

So I ask then, what was the events where you felt psychologically rich? What I mean by psychologically rich here is that it might not have been a happy event or a meaningful event per se, but something different, something unusual, something novel. One person, Rachel, said there was this guy typing something half naked. And I've never seen a guy typing in public area like shirtless. And the strange thing was it wasn't hot.

那人身材普通，也不是在炫耀肌肉，她觉得很有趣。这确实新奇，但我觉得不够'丰富'。另一个人则说'我去看了职业摔角比赛'。

He wasn't well built, so he wasn't showing off his upper body or anything. And that was kind of interesting, she said. Okay. So there was a novelty, but I thought that's not really rich. And then another person said, oh, I went to professional wrestling match.

她惊讶地发现现场有这么多孩子。后来了解到WWE开展了许多反欺凌活动。对这些孩子而言，那些看似滑稽的职业摔角手实际上是他们真正的榜样和英雄。她经历了情绪起伏后，对职业摔跤的看法彻底改变了。他们原本以为这只是工人阶级的娱乐活动。

And she was so surprised that there are so many kids. And then later, learned that WWE does a lot of anti bullying campaign. And for them, this sort of ridiculous looking pro wrestler is actually genuinely their role model and hero. And then she went through this up and down, you know, emotions and came back with totally different view of professional wrestling. They thought that was sort of the working class thing to do.

他们去了现场后深受感动，对职业摔角手的刻板印象完全被打破。我认为这不只是新奇体验，而是包含了复杂情感和视角转变的经历。要让某个事件具有心理丰富性，它不仅要有趣，还必须带来某种改变——尤其是观念上的转变。所以那个光膀子的家伙并不算真正丰富，因为他完全没有改变你对世界的看法。

And they went, and then they were really moved. And then their stereotypical view of the pro wrestlers completely got shattered. So I thought, Okay, this is not just a novel experience, but pretty complex, a lot of different emotions, and also came back with a different perspective. I think in order for some event to be psychologically rich, it has to be not just interesting, but it has to come with some kind of change and perspective change in particular. So the shirtless guy is not really rich because it didn't change the way you view the world at all.

而后者的案例才是真正的心理丰富——'哇，我没想到会这样，我需要重新审视这件事'。

Whereas the latter case is really just, wow, I didn't expect this, and I need to change my view about this.

你能给这种第三种生活体验方式下个定义吗？

Can you kind of give me a definition of this sort of third way of experiencing life?

当然。我们将心理丰富的生活定义为充满多样有趣经历的人生，这些经历往往伴随着观念转变。我经常将其与物质富裕的生活作对比。

Yeah. Yeah. We define psychologically rich life as a life filled with diverse, interesting experiences. And that often come with the change in perspective. So I often contrast with the materially rich life.

大量现金、资产和物品代表物质富裕。而心理富裕则关乎有趣经历和可讲述故事的积累——在你的心理银行里，存满了可以向他人讲述的精彩经历。

Lots of cash, a lot of assets, a lot of things. That's the material richness. What about the psychological richness? It is all about accumulation of interesting experiences or stories that you can tell. So in your psychological bank, you have lots of interesting experiences and stories to tell to others.

反之，如果一个人没有多少有趣故事可讲，即便银行账户金额巨大，从心理层面来说可能仍是贫瘠的。

Whereas if this person doesn't have that many interesting stories to tell, then even if their bank account is huge, maybe psychologically speaking, are impoverished.

那么，过一种心理上丰富的生活有多普遍呢？如果我记得没错，你用一种相当聪明的方式研究了这个问题。

And so how common is living a psychologically rich life? If I recall, you studied this in a pretty clever way.

是的。我是说，这正是问题所在。如果没有人过着心理上丰富的生活，那我们研究的是什么？所以我们有点担心。在一项研究中，我们决定直接查看《纽约时报》的讣告。

Yeah. I mean, that was the question. And if nobody leads psychologically rich life, what what are we studying? So we were a little bit worried. So in one study, we just decided to look at The New York Times obituaries.

本质上，我喜欢阅读讣告。我认为讣告是对一个人如何度过一生的绝佳总结。《纽约时报》每天都会刊登三到四篇讣告。所以我雇了三名研究助理，他们的任务是每天阅读《纽约时报》的讣告，然后根据幸福、意义和心理丰富度来评价每个人的生活。

Essentially, I love reading obituaries. And obituaries, I think, is a really great summary of how somebody lived their lives. New York Times always have three or four obituaries every day. So I hired three research assistants. And their assignment was read New York Times obituary every day and then rate each person's life in terms of happiness, meaning, and psychological richness.

他们不知道我想研究什么。我的意思是，他们对假设是盲目的。最终我们发现，大约有32%的人被评价为过着幸福的生活，另外32%的人过着有意义的生活，还有15%的人过着心理上丰富的生活。

And they don't know what I'm trying to look at. I mean, blind to hypothesis. So in the end, we figured out roughly there were 32%, essentially, of the people who are rated as somebody who led a happy life. Another 32 led a meaningful life. And then the 15 of them led a psychologically rich life.

有些人过着既幸福又有意义的生活，有些人过着既幸福又心理丰富的生活。其中有两个人三者兼备，他们的生活被评价为幸福、有意义且心理丰富。我们还在夏洛茨维尔的当地报纸《每日进步》上做了同样的研究。

Some people led happy and a meaningful life. Some people led happy and a psychologically rich. And two of them got it all. They were rated as happy, meaningful, and the psychologically rich life. So we did this in Charlottesville local newspaper Daily Progress.

被评价为过着这种生活的人的比例下降到了约5%，这可能是因为《纽约时报》报道的都是些非常著名、杰出的人物。他们的生活可能比普通的弗吉尼亚中部居民更加戏剧化。但另一种可能是，《纽约时报》的讣告详细得多，而当地的讣告则非常事实性且简短。所以这可能只是信息量的差异。

The number of people who were rated to have led the witch life went down to about 5%, which could be due to like New York Times. People are sort of very famous people, prominent people. They had more dramatic life than the ordinary Central Virginians, Maybe. But another possibility was that New York Times obituaries are a lot more detailed, whereas the local one is very factual and small. So it could be just information.

于是我们在新加坡进行了第三项研究。在新加坡，约有35%的人被评价为过着心理上丰富的生活。但我相当确信，确实有相当数量的人过着心理上丰富的生活。

So we did the third study in Singapore. And in Singapore, something like 35% of them were rated as leading psychologically rich life. But I'm pretty confident that nontrivial number of people do lead psychologically rich life.

如果你目前不属于那部分为数不少的人群，但渴望生活得更丰盈，广告插播后，Shigae将用他的顶级建议为你指引方向。究竟什么才是美好生活的真谛？是关乎幸福、目标、爱情、健康，还是财富？在追寻充实人生的道路上，什么才是真正重要的？这些正是获奖作家、创始人和访谈人乔纳森·菲尔兹在其广受欢迎的好生活项目播客中向嘉宾们提出的问题。

If you're not currently among that nontrivial number of people but want to live more richly, Shigae will guide you with his top tips right after the break. What does it even mean to live a good life? Is it about happiness, purpose, love, health, or wealth? What really matters in the pursuit of a well lived life? These are the questions award winning author, founder, and interviewer Jonathan Fields asks his guests on the top ranked Good Life Project podcast.

每周，乔纳森都会与诸如亚当·格兰特、格雷琴·鲁宾、安吉拉·达克沃思等数百位知名思想家和实践者促膝长谈。立即开始收听吧，在您喜爱的播客应用中搜索好生活项目。心理学家Shige Oishi指出，在我们追求更幸福生活的过程中，许多人忽略了一个关键要素——我们需要寻找更多心理层面的丰富性。

Every week, Jonathan sits down with renowned thinkers and doers, people like Adam Grant, Gretchen Rubin, Angela Duckworth, and hundreds more. Start listening now. Look for Good Life Project on your favorite podcast app. Psychologist Shige Oishi has argued that there's something many of us have missed in our quest to live a happier life. We need to find a bit more psychological richness.

但如果你听完这期节目的前半部分后心想：嘿，我的生活远未达到应有的丰富程度。你该为此做些什么呢？

But what if you listen to the first part of this episode and thought, hey. My life isn't nearly as rich as it could be. What should you do about it?

我个人认为最佳方式是找到一位开放型朋友，那种能带你体验新事物的伙伴。想象一下，如果你的朋友是《欲望都市》里的萨曼莎，你甚至不需要主动寻求新鲜体验——她会直接拽着你参与各种有趣的活动。如果你是个随和的人，当朋友问'嘿，劳瑞，想试试这家新餐厅吗？想去远足吗？'

Personally, I think the best way is to find the open friend, the friend who will bring you to new experiences. So imagine if your friend is Samantha from Sex and the City, then you don't have to have an openness to experience. She will just drag you to interesting experiences. And if you're an agreeable person, then whenever your friend say, hey, Laurie, do you want to try this new restaurant? Do you want to go to a hike?

你只需回答'好啊'，然后就去尝试。你可能不会自发去做这些事，但当别人发起时你会参与。但若你没有这样的朋友，还有其他选择。我认为最重要的就是保持玩乐心态。

And you just say, Okay, and then you just try. You might not do it yourself. But if somebody else is doing, you do it. But if you don't have friends like that, then there are other options. For instance, I think the biggest one is be like playful.

我认为玩乐精神是过上心理丰富生活的关键要素。实际上作为成年人，保持玩乐心态相当困难。这需要你暂时摆脱日常生活中的义务责任，逃离社会经济现实。唯有如此，你才能尽情玩乐，享受丰盈人生。

Playfulness is, I think, a huge part of leading a psychologically rich life. Actually, as an adult, I think it's quite hard to be playful. Playfulness, you have to take a vacation from your obligations and responsibility of daily life, from social and economic reality. And that's when you can be playful and lead the rich life.

你还提出玩乐能以意想不到的方式帮助我们，比如防止职业倦怠。有哪些研究支持这个观点呢？

You've also argued that playfulness can help us too in ways we don't expect. For example, you've argued that playfulness can help protect us from burnout. What are some studies that tell us that?

是的。我是说，有一项关于这些超级精英运动员运动表现的惊人元分析。我们说的是奥运级别的运动员。有些人起步较早，专攻一项运动，而另一些人则在专攻前参与多项运动。那里最有趣的发现是，如果你看青少年级别的比赛，表现确实是由某人专攻的早晚来预测的。

Yeah. I mean, there is this amazing meta analysis about athletic performance among these super elite athletes. So we are talking about Olympic level athletes. And some people start out pretty early and specialize in one sport, whereas other people play multiple sports before specializing. And the really interesting finding from there is that if you look at the junior level competitions, then the performance is really predicted by how early somebody specialized.

但当你观察最终奥运级别的比赛表现时，反而是那些参与多项运动、较晚专攻的人表现更好。这种玩乐心态体现在那些世界级运动员身上，他们会为乐趣打些即兴比赛或参与其他运动。我是说，这些人往往不会精疲力竭，而且往往表现更佳。疯狂的是，在科学成就方面也有类似的复现。

But when you look at the final Olympic level competition performance, then it's people who play multiple sports and specialize later in life. They do better. And this playfulness is that world class athlete who plays some pickup games and some other sports for fun. I mean, those are the people who tend not to burn out and tend to do better. And the crazy thing is that there is a replication in the scientific achievement as well.

德国最高的科学奖项是莱布尼茨奖。其中一些人后来赢得了诺贝尔奖。德国研究人员比较了最终诺贝尔奖得主与莱布尼茨奖得主之间的差异。这绝对是我最喜欢的发现。莱布尼茨奖得主比诺贝尔奖得主更早成为正教授。

So highest German scientific award is Leipniz awards. And some of them went on to win Nobel Prize. So German researcher looked at the difference between eventual Nobel Prize winners versus Leipniz winners. And this is absolutely my favorite finding. The Leibniz winners became full professor much earlier than the Nobel Prize winner.

诺贝尔奖得主实际上之前研究过多个领域。因此，他们花了更长时间才获得正教授职位。但最终，他们做出了重大发现。所以我认为，即使在专业领域，保持玩乐心态也非常重要，因为你不想过早过于专业化。保持你的好奇心广泛开放。

The Nobel Prize winners actually studied multiple things before. And so it took them much longer to get the full professorship. But eventually, they made a major discovery. So I think the playfulness, even in a professional arena, is really important because you don't want to be too specialized too early. Keep your curiosity wide open.

因为当你只专攻一个领域时，你实际上在做的是：好吧，这些信息与我无关，所以不用关注。而如果你保持开放，你就会觉得，哦，那挺有趣的，有时候它会有帮助。

Because when you just specialize, what you're doing is, okay, this information is irrelevant for me, so don't pay attention. Whereas if you are open, then you're just, oh, that's kind of interesting, and sometimes it help.

所以这有点像拥抱玩乐心态。你的第二个建议，我认为与之非常相关。我们需要拥抱意外发现和自发性。是的。你所说的意外发现是什么意思？

So that's kind of embracing playfulness. Your second tip, I think, is very related. So we need to embrace serendipity and spontaneity. Yeah. What do you mean by serendipity there?

是的。意外发现和自发性，我认为是有趣经历的跳板。如果你回想你所有有趣的经历，很可能那些都不是你提前六个月计划好的事情。比如在研究生院，我们没有那么多必修课。所以我们有很多时间。

Yeah. So serendipity and the spontaneity, I think, is the springboard of interesting experiences. And if you think about all the interesting experiences you had, probably those are not the things you planned six months in advance. In graduate school, for instance, we didn't have that many required courses. So we had a lot of time.

所以我常会顺路去实验室同事的办公室，提议一起去喝咖啡。我们会聊些随机但有趣的话题，有时会有意外发现，非常有意思。当我在明尼苏达大学任职时，我特别想延续这种传统。

So I would just stop by my lab mate's office. Let's go have coffee. And we talk something random and interesting, and there is some discovery of certain things. So very interesting. And when I got a job at the University of Minnesota, I really wanted to do the same thing.

于是我敲开了同为助理教授的鲍勃·克鲁格的门，问道：'嘿鲍勃，有空喝咖啡吗？'他翻看日程表后回答：'现在不行，两周后如何？'

So I knocked on the door, Bob Kruger, fellow assistant professor. And I said, hey, Bob. Do you have time for coffee? And then looked through his schedule and say, no. What about in two weeks?

如今我们可以随时来杯即兴咖啡——这才是教授应有的状态。鲍勃后来非常成功，产出惊人，据说已发表300篇论文。你看这就是自然交流的力量。

We can now have this cup of coffee spontaneously, and that's what it means to be a professor. Bob became, like, so successful. He's very productive. I think he wrote already 300 articles. So you see how that works.

但当我们过度规划每件事时，实际上剥夺了随机事件发生的可能——偶遇、闲谈、偶然阅读。当前这种被日程填满的生活方式，确实不利于心理丰富性。

But at the same time, in terms of this spontaneous, random conversations or experiences, when you just schedule and plan everything, you really are depriving from these random things to happen, random encounter, random conversation, random reading. So over scheduled life that we all live right now is really not great for psychological richness.

这正是我常为精英大学生担忧的问题。他们从高中就开始过度规划，连'27岁必须结婚'这种事都要列进人生计划，想把一切都安排妥当。

This is something I worry out a lot about in my elite college students that I work with because, you know, they wanna over schedule everything. You know? It's from early in high school, they've already planned what job they want. Some students are like, well, I definitely wanna get married by the time I'm 27. Like, they wanna have everything planned out.

是的。我担心他们可能忽视了某些重要的幸福维度，因为没有给自己留出尝试新事物的空间。

Yeah. And I really worry that they might be leaving some important aspects of their well-being kind of uncared for because they haven't given themselves the space to to try new things out.

完全正确。这就是他们缺失的空间感，也是压力的来源。他们觉得必须持续保持巅峰表现，简直像学术运动员般日复一日地训练。

Exactly. That's the that's the space, and I think that's the pressure they feel. Like, they have to succeed. They have to perform, and they have to perform at the highest level all the time. And it's like academic athletes almost like just practice, practice, practice every day.

我认为这确实不健康。你应该有充足的娱乐时间。大学阶段是最适合随性而为的时光。一旦毕业，朋友们不再近在咫尺，每个人都忙得难以临时约见聚会。

And I think that is really not healthy. You should really have plenty of time for play. College is the best time to be spontaneous. Once you go out of college, your friends don't live around the corner. Everybody's too busy to just have spontaneous meeting and outing.

但你主张过即便成年后也需要挤出更多时间创造偶遇机会。对于如何培养这种偶然性，有什么建议吗？

But you've argued that we really, even as adults, need to find more time to be able to Definitely. Any advice for how to build that serendipity?

我觉得需要主动些。随便找个理由发信息邀约，同时做好被拒绝的心理准备。毕竟对方可能确实没空，这很正常。

Well, I think you have to be a little bit pushy. Just text somebody about something and just accept a lot of rejections. You know? They cannot do it. Okay.

在人人日程爆满的当下确实很难，但我们确实应该尝试保持随性而为的心态。

Next. It is really hard when everybody is so overbooked, but we we we should we should try to be spontaneous.

你反复强调的第三个建议，也是我们幸福实验室曾探讨过的——若想拥有心理丰盈的人生，就需要寻找更多敬畏体验。请谈谈敬畏感如何促进心理丰富性。

So tip number three that you've talked a lot about is something that we've mentioned before on the happiness lab. Mhmm. If we wanna live a psychologically rich life, we need to find more awe. Mhmm. Talk about how how awe plays into psychological richness.

敬畏感让人意识到自身渺小与世界浩瀚，产生超越性的融合体验——无论是与自然共鸣还是艺术沉浸。参观博物馆、观影、阅读文学作品时的审美体验，虽非每次都有，但确实能让我们跳脱日常。比如读石黑一雄《长日将尽》，你会瞬间穿越到1930年代达林顿庄园，置身于管家与二十多名仆役的贵族世界。这种精神沉浸与心灵漫游极其珍贵。

Yeah. I think awe is really this sense of you are small and the world is so large and just sort of transcending kind of sense and then the merging between you and the nature or the arts. And a lot of aesthetic experiences that we have when we go to a museum, when we go watch movie, read literature and poems, It's not always all, but there is this aesthetic experiences that is very different from our everyday life. So if you read Kazuo Ishiguro's The Remains of the Day, then you are transported into this world of British lord, Lord Darlington in Darlington Hall with butlers and 20 some staff members in the 1930s. And those kinds of immersions and the mental transportation, I think, is really, really important.

反观现实生活：我们虽享有旅行自由，但日常无非起床早餐、见固定的人、处理邮件等重复循环。亲身经历的范围其实很有限。而通过阅读小说或观看两小时电影，却能深度体验他人的人生，间接经历剧烈的情感波动。

Because look at our lives, right? We are privileged to travel anywhere we want. But every day, we get up, eat breakfast, usually just meet the same people, respond to emails, etcetera, etcetera. So every day, what we can experience firsthand is pretty limited. Whereas in a matter of one hour, if you read these novels or watch a movie two hours or whatever, you can really experience somebody else's life and go through really dramatic emotional experiences vicariously.

因此，在短短几小时内，你常常能经历某个人的一生。摩洛哥这家书店的老板说他读过4000本书，所以他声称自己活过了4000次人生。这正是我对那些真正拓展视野的美学体验的感受——它们让你经历并体验那些在现实中或许永远、或极难亲身经历的事物。

So for the matter of a few hours, you often go through somebody's entire life. And the guy who owns this bookstore in Morocco said he read 4,000 books. So he says he lived 4,000 lives. And that's exactly how I feel about these aesthetic experiences that really expand your horizons and allow you to go through and experience something that you can never, maybe very hard to experience in person.

所以这算是通过他人生活中的美学体验来寻找更多敬畏感。但你的第四条建议主张我们也应该更多地探索自我。确实。我们应该主动寻求新体验，做些非典型的事情。没错。

And so that's kind of finding more awe through aesthetic experiences in other people's lives. But your tip number four argues that we should also explore more ourselves. Sure. That we should be seeking out new experiences and doing more atypical things. Sure.

对于如何在忙碌生活中实现这一点，有什么建议吗？

Any ideas for how to fit that in in a busy life?

有的。我认为如果你有通勤时间，改变通勤路线就很有趣。比如开车的话，可以穿越不同小镇或街区；乘火车时，可以在中途下车探索。即便日程紧张，仍有很多方法尝试新事物。

Yeah. So I think that if you have commute, then I think the change in your commute is really interesting way. I mean, if you're driving, just drive through different town, different neighborhood. If you're taking train, get off in between and explore. So I think there are a lot of things you can do to do new things, even if you're pretty packed in schedules.

我个人就喜欢在新城镇迷路的感觉。虽然有点吓人，但我总告诉自己：这终将成为一次心理丰富的体验。当然迷路时会担忧焦虑，但多数情况都能解决。这种放手随波逐流的状态很特别。

And I try to enjoy, for instance, getting lost in a new town. It's a little bit scary, but I always tell myself, well, Okay, eventually this will be a psychologically rich experience. Of course, when you get lost, you're worried, anxious, and so forth. But most of the time, you will work out. And those are things sort of like you let yourself go, go with the flow.

这种态度和心态对打破常规日程大有帮助。当然我们不可能总是偏离正轨，但当机会出现时，不妨放任自己去尝试偏离。这就是我希望人们尽可能去做的。

Those attitudes and mindset helps a lot in terms of deviating from the real routines and the schedules. And of course, we cannot deviate all the time. But when there is a chance to be able to deviate, just let yourself go and deviate. That's what I want anybody to do if possible.

这也很好地呼应了你的最后一条建议：通过将逆境转化为心理丰富的体验，变成有趣的故事，我们能获得更多心理丰盈感。没错。这说明我们的故事走向其实更多由自己掌控。

And it's also a nice reminder of your final tip, which is that we can experience more psychological richness by turning adversity into a psychological rich experience, into a fun story. Right. Explain why our stories are more under our control.

你知道，因为我在日本长大，而日本当然有很多自然灾害，如地震、海啸等。我研究了这些地震幸存者的幸福感和福祉。2013年的学术休假期间，我在日本神户度过了一年。那里在1995年曾发生过一场大地震，超过六千人丧生。

You know, because I grew up in Japan, and Japan, of course, has a lot of natural disasters, earthquake, tsunami, and things like that. I studied happiness and well-being of these earthquake survivors. And my sabbatical in 2013, I spent one year in Kobe, Japan. That's where there was a huge earthquake in 1995. Over six thousand people died.

那真是毁灭性的。令人悲伤的发现是，在2011年，即使地震过去十六年后，那些失去家园的居民仍报告生活满意度显著较低。他们比未失去家园的居民报告了更多的身体症状和疼痛。这让我感到非常难过，因为我们总以为时间能治愈一切。但在这个案例中，时间并未治愈所有创伤。

That was just devastating. And the sad finding was that in 2011, even sixteen years after the earthquake, those COVID residents who lost their house were still reporting significantly lower level of life satisfaction. They report more physical symptoms, pain, than those COVID residents who did not lose their house. So I thought that was really sad because we thought time heals everything. But this case, time did not heal everything.

但随后我们观察了这些地震幸存者的价值观取向。我们意识到经历过地震的人确实变得更加亲社会和利他。与未经历地震的日本人相比，他们不那么在意个人成就。显然，变化是存在的。毕竟，当你身处地震中，你会亲眼目睹许多前所未见的事物。

But then we looked at the value orientations of these earthquake survivors. And we realized that the people who've been through earthquake, they really become more prosocial, altruistic. They don't care about their own accomplishment as much as other Japanese who did not experience earthquake. So definitely, there's change. After all, when you are in earthquake, you really see a lot of things that you never imagined before.

平时不太友好的邻居会冲出来试图救你和你的狗。你会看到人们截然不同的一面。因此这些幸存者都谈到某种重获对人性的信心。我认为这正是心理丰富性的促成因素。即使地震没有增加生活满意度——显然它降低了生活满意度。

Neighbors who are not particularly friendly will come out and try to save you and save your dog. And you see a lot of different side of people. So those people, survivors, all talk about sort of the regained sense of confidence in humanity even. And I think that's the contributing factor to psychological richness. Even if the earthquake doesn't add to life satisfaction, obviously that detracts from life satisfactions.

从地震中获取意义也非常困难，因为这是大自然随机的行为。人们常在地震后苦苦追寻意义。但也有人将地震作为改变、成长和学习的跳板。我认为有很多迹象表明，某些逆境可以成为心理丰富生活的源泉。

And meaning is also very hard to gain from earthquake because this is a random act of mother nature. So people often struggle to find the meaning after earthquake. But people have used this earthquake as a springboard for change and growth and learning. And I think there are a lot of signs that some adversity could be a source for psychologically rich life.

对于将我们那些低于地震级别的逆境转化为心理上的...有什么建议吗？

Any suggestions for changing maybe some of our less than earthquake level adversity into psychologically

烦躁？是的。我们询问大学生，只需回想过去一年发生的创伤性或负面事件。你从这些创伤事件中学到什么了吗？有趣的是，这是随机分配的。

irritated? Yeah. So we ask college students, just just think about all last year and what kind of traumatic event, negative event happened. And did you learn anything from this traumatic event? Interestingly, this was random assignment.

他们后来报告说，创伤实际上改变了他们看待世界和自我的方式。他们记录的前瞻性变化越多，所报告的心理丰富度也越高。有趣的是，前瞻性变化越多，他们的幸福感反而越低。因此，前瞻性变化虽不利于幸福，却倾向于增加心理丰富度。这种变化不一定是地震、海啸等重大创伤事件。

They later reported that actually trauma made them change the way they view the world and they view themselves. And the more prospective change they recorded, the higher level of psychological richness they reported as well. And interestingly, the more prospective change they reported, less happy they became. So the prospective change is not great for happiness, but that tend to add psychological richness. So it doesn't have to be a huge trauma, earthquake, tsunami type situation.

即便是日常的失败和负面事件，如果你能从中解读出积极意义或学到些什么，也能为生活增添质感并丰富人生体验。

But even everyday failures and negative events, if you can construe something positive or something that you learned from the events, that could add the texture to your life and enrich your life.

这种质感似乎并不总是对心理有积极影响。

And it does seem like that texture isn't always psychologically positive.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我知道你曾提到过，比如探索时迷路，或是经历挑战自我的事情，可能

I know you've talked about even things like exploring and getting lost or having an experience that maybe challenges you and maybe

是的。

Yeah.

会改变你的一些固有观念。

Changes some of your assumptions.

没错。

Right.

听起来，心理富足人生的核心启示似乎是：它可能比你预想的要艰难一些，但回报也会超出你的预期。

It sounds like the big message of a psychologically rich life is like, it might be a little harder than you expect, but the rewards might be bigger than you expect.

是的，确实如此。这显然并非总是易事，也并非总是积极的。但我认为心理富足生活的力量，或者说追求最大程度丰富性的思维方式，在于你不惧怕负面情绪或消极事件。事情总会发生。

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, this is not something easy always and not always positive, obviously. But I think the power of psychological rich life or the mindset to try to maximize richness is that you're not afraid of negative emotions or negative events. Stuff happens.

试着接纳它们，从中学习。只要保持这种态度，你就不会陷入反复纠结和抑郁。而当你竭力追求完美、极度成功和永远快乐时，那些小挫折反而会真正伤害你。所以我真正想说的是，富足心态确实不适合所有人。

Try to accept those. Try to learn from it. And as long as you have that attitude, you don't get into these ruminations and depressions. And it is when you really try to be perfect and try to be super successful and always happy that these little bumps really hurts you. So I am really trying to say that richness is not for everybody, for sure.

但当你拥有富足思维时，我想你会不那么害怕失败和消极事件等等。我认为你会变得更敢于冒险，实际上体验到那些你从未想过会经历的事情。这真的能在你的人生历程中改变你。所以我认为不确定性和不可预测性是生活的一部分，我们应该拥抱它。你拥抱它的程度，决定了你为生活增添丰富性的可能性。

But when you have richness mindset, I think you're less afraid of failures and negative events and so forth. And I think you become a little more adventurous and actually experience something that you wouldn't thought you would ever experience. And that really could change you in the course of your life. So I think uncertainty and unpredictability are part of life, and we should embrace it. And to the extent that you embrace it, you're maximizing the possibility of adding the richness to your life.

我觉得有时候当人们考虑让生活更精彩、多探索、保持好奇心时，说实话，我认识的一些人会觉得被困住了。对吧？他们感到无比忙碌，有一大堆责任。嗯。

I think sometimes when people look at the possibility of making their life more exciting, exploring more, getting curious, Honestly, some of the people I know feel trapped. Right? They feel incredibly busy. There's this whole host of obligations. Mhmm.

他们似乎对自己的生活现状相当满意，要打破这种状态可能会感到害怕。对于那些可能有类似体验、觉得追求这些能让心理更富足的事物非常困难的人，你有什么建议吗？

It feels like they're kind of really comfortable in their life. It might feel scary to break out of it. Any advice for folks who might be having an experience like that where it feels really hard to go after some of these things that might make their life psychologically richer?

我是说，我完全理解这一点，因为从本质上讲，我也非常喜欢熟悉感。但如果你害怕尝试全新的事物，我认为可以建议的一个方法是坚持你所喜欢的。如果你热爱披头士乐队，你可以继续听他们的歌，但要试着从听了多年的同一首歌中发现新的东西。文学也是如此。如果你钟爱《达洛维夫人》，你可以读上三四遍，每次都能发现新意。

I I mean, I totally, like, get that because by nature, I really like familiarity too. But I think the one way, if you are afraid of doing, like, completely brand new thing, then I think one thing I can suggest is really stick with what you like. If you love Beatles, you can keep listening to Beatles, but try to find something new about the same song you are listening for all these years. And the same thing with the literature. If you love missus Daraway, you can read like three times, four times, and you find always something new.

所以，如果你害怕尝试新事物，其实可以回到你最喜欢的电影、歌曲或乐队那里，从熟悉的事物中发现新鲜感。我最喜欢的故事是：我和妻子结婚多年，认识她有二十年了。大约在2010年，我说我们应该买些画。然后她说，好吧，我可以画画。

So if you're afraid of trying something new, actually, just going back to your favorite movie or favorite song and favorite band and things like that, you can actually find something new from the familia. My favorite story here is I have been married with my wife for a long time. I've known her like twenty years. And around 2010, I said, we should buy some painting. And then she goes, Okay, I can paint.

我当时很惊讶，什么？我不知道你会画画。结果呢，她画得非常好，简直停不下来。现在家里到处都是她的画作。

And it's like, what? I didn't know that you can paint. And then, boy, she can paint. She's just like, pain, pain, pain. Now it's just full of her painting.

所以有时候，你甚至可以从非常熟悉的人身上发现新东西。如果你有机会问一些新问题，或者与老朋友聊些从未涉及的话题，即使害怕完全走出去，也可以通过深入挖掘熟悉的事物和人，来丰富你的生活。

So sometimes you just find something new from a very familiar person. If you just have opportunity to ask some new questions or a chance to talk about some topic that you never talked about with the same old friends, you can actually enrich your life by digging deeper with your familiar objects and person as well if you are afraid of sort of going all the way out.

想要了解更多迈向心理丰富生活的大小步骤，你真的应该看看Shige的新书《三维人生：好奇心、探索与经历如何创造更充实、更美好的生活》。但让我们回顾一下目前听到的建议。第一条建议是找到更有趣的方式。暂时放下责任，培养孩子般的好奇心和乐趣感。第二条建议是对随机性更加开放。

For more big and small steps towards leading a psychologically rich life, you should really check out Shige's new book, Life in Three Dimensions, How Curiosity, Exploration, and Experience Make a Fuller, Better Life. But let's recap the how to tips we've heard so far. Tip number one, find ways to be more playful. Take a little break from your responsibilities, and try to cultivate a childlike curiosity and sense of fun. Tip number two, be more open to the random.

虽然生活中按计划行事让人安心，但试着寻找更多意外惊喜的时刻。可以简单到停下来和同事聊聊天。第三条建议是通过间接方式体验心理丰富性。你可以通过阅读一本书、欣赏一幅画或观看一部电影，来访问遥远的地方、见证自然奇观或了解一些了不起的人。第四条建议是去探索。

It's comforting to schedule everything in life, but try to find more moments of serendipity. It could be as simple as stopping by to chat with a coworker. The third tip is to experience psychological richness by proxy. You can visit a faraway place, witness a natural wonder, or hear about some amazing people just by reading a book, looking at a painting, or watching a movie. Tip number four is to explore.

我们很容易陷入日复一日做同样事情的习惯。所以，即使只是出门时向左转而不是向右转，也要给生活增添一些变化。Shige的最后一条建议是在逆境中看到丰富性。勇于尝试虽有风险，会有失望和挫折，但这些挑战最终会丰富我们的人生故事，帮助我们成长。

We can easily get in the habit of doing the same things day in, day out. So throw some variety into the mix, even if that's turning left out your front door instead of right. And Shige's final tip is to see the richness in adversity. Putting yourself out there has its risks. There will be disappointments and setbacks, but those challenges ultimately add to our life story and help us grow.

这就是心理富足生活的全部内容，但我们的‘如何调味’系列还未结束。下一期我们将探讨如何通过改变来激励和提升周围的人。简而言之，我们将探索如何成为一个鼓舞人心的人。敬请期待下期《幸福实验室》，我是劳里·桑托斯博士。

That's it for a psychologically rich life, but our how to season isn't over yet. Our next installment tackles what changes you should make to motivate and elevate the people around you. In short, we'll be exploring how to become an inspiring person. That's all next time on The Happiness Lab with me, Doctor. Laurie Santos.

我们都曾思考生命中的重大问题：我们为何存在？该做些什么？如何理解这一切？在《Ye Gods with Scott Carter》节目中，我与政客、神父、演员及无神论者畅谈他们如何应对生命的奥秘。

We all wonder about life's big questions. Why are we here? What are we to do? And how to make sense of it all? On Ye Gods with Scott Carter, I talk with politicos, priests, actors, and atheists on how they wrestle with life's mysteries.

他们的故事将引发思考、挑战固有观念，或许还能为

Their stories will spark reflection, challenge assumptions, and maybe even bring

你自身的旅程带来一些启示。

you some clarity on your own journey.

欢迎收听《Yee Gods》，

Listen to Yee Gods,

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NPR播客网络，您可在任何平台收听。

NPR network wherever you get your podcasts.

这里是iHeart播客。

This is an iHeart podcast.