独自进食为何对健康不利（国际幸福日特辑）

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

我是乔纳森·戈德斯坦，在《重量级》新一季中，我帮助一位百岁老人修复破碎的心。

I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

一位101岁的老妇人如何能再次坠入爱河？

How can a 101 year old woman fall in love again?

我还帮助一名男子为他14岁时犯下的持械抢劫赎罪。

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.

于是我拿枪指着他，说这不是玩笑。他蹲下了。我记得当时有种莫名的

And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind

冲动，就好像，好吧。

of a surge of, like, okay.

这就是权力。另外，我的老友格雷戈尔和他兄弟试图通过催眠来解决我的问题。

This is power. Plus, my old friend, Gregor, and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism.

我们可以给你一个全新的设定，让你时刻都超级迷人。

We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're, like, super charming all the time.

更能直视别人的眼睛。

Being more able to look people in the eye.

不要总是躲在麦克风后面。

Not always hide behind a microphone.

在任意播客平台收听《Heavyweight》。

Listen to Heavyweight wherever you get your podcasts.

Pushkin。

Pushkin.

国际幸福日快乐。十多年来，全球将3月20日定为致力于幸福的节日，这是推动各国政府更重视幸福并制定改善福祉政策的一部分。国际幸福日也标志着《世界幸福报告》的发布，《幸福实验室》提前获得了该报告包含的所有新研究数据。在接下来的两期节目中，我们将呈现许多亮点，包括你现在就可以采取的行动来改善生活。每年《世界幸福报告》最引人注目的部分是国家排名。

Happy International Day of Happiness. The world has been marking March 20 as a day dedicated to happiness for over a decade, part of a worldwide push to get governments to take happiness more seriously and to enact policies that improve our well-being. International Day of Happiness also marks the release of the World Happiness Report, and Happiness Lab has been given early access to all the new research this report contains. And over the next two episodes, we've got lots of highlights, including things you can do right now to improve your life. The most famous headline grabbing part of each year's World Happiness Report are the country rankings.

全球受访者被要求用1到10分评估生活满意度。最幸福人群的桂冠通常由斯堪的纳维亚地区的某个国家摘得。

People around the world are asked, on a scale of one to 10, how satisfied are you with your life? The crown for the happiest people usually goes to a country somewhere in Scandinavia.

而今年，最幸福的国家是

And this year, the happiest country is

芬兰。芬兰。

Finland. Finland.

又一次。又一次。

Again. Again.

但紧随其后的是丹麦、冰岛、瑞典和荷兰，我想。

But closely followed by Denmark and Iceland and Sweden and The Netherlands, I think.

这是牛津大学经济学和行为科学教授、《世界幸福报告》主编扬·伊曼纽尔·德内夫。在他研究这些国家数据的这些年里，他注意到了一些变化。排名曾一度被富裕大国主导，但这一切正在改变。

This is Jan Emmanuel Denev, professor of economics and behavioral science at the University of Oxford and editor of the World Happiness Report. During the years he studied these country data, he's noticed some changes. The rankings used to be dominated by the big rich nations, but all that's changing.

墨西哥和哥斯达黎加进入了前十名。

Mexico and Costa Rica enter the top 10.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

非常令人兴奋，向他们致敬。东欧国家持续崛起，而这正是以牺牲大型工业强国为代价的。因此德国跌出前20名，英国跌出前20名，美国降至第24位。哇。而在最底部，依然是阿富汗。

Hugely It's exciting and kudos to them. Eastern European countries continue their ascent, and that goes at the expense of the large industrial powers. So Germany tumbles out of top 20, The UK tumbles out of top 20, and The US drops to twenty fourth. Wow. And then at the very bottom, Afghanistan still.

这一次，阿富汗的平均生活满意度仅为1.34分。

And this time, average life satisfaction in Afghanistan is the type. 1.34.

满分

Out

10分制。哇。

of? 10. Wow.

正如我之前所说，国家排名往往占据头条。但像严和我这样的科学家更感兴趣的是导致这些生活满意度差异的原因。其中一个重要因素可能与饮食有关。关于我们吃什么已经有很多讨论，但《世界幸福报告》采取了不同的方法。它关注的是我们和谁一起吃饭。

As I said before, the country rankings tend to grab the headlines. But scientists like Yan and I are even more interested in what's causing these differences in life satisfaction. And one of the big factors might involve eating. There's been a ton of discussion about what we eat, but the World Happiness Report takes a different approach. It focuses on who we're eating with.

我们每周大约要吃14顿正餐。在所有这些午餐和晚餐中，我们与谁共度时光？事实证明，这个问题的答案似乎对我们的幸福感有很大影响，因为《世界幸福报告》发现，有些人会与他人分享餐食，而有些人则因缺乏陪伴而独自用餐。那么为什么要关注共享餐食呢？

We tend to eat 14 big meals a week. Who are we spending time with during all those lunches and dinners? Well, it turns out that the answer to that question seems to have a big impact on our well-being because the World Happiness Report found that some people share meals with others while some folks are going hungry for company. So why focus on sharing meals?

人们共同用餐的程度可以作为衡量我们社会连接质量与数量的指标，本质上可以说是我们的社会资本。在过去七天里，你有多少顿午餐和晚餐是与他人共享的？大约在21世纪初（确切地说是2003年），美国每六人中就有一人独自用餐，而到了2023年2月左右，这一比例已上升至每四人中就有一人独自用餐。这意味着独自用餐的比例增长了约53%，但引人注目的是，主要是年轻人。准确地说，如今年轻人独自用餐的可能性几乎是二十年前的两倍。

The extent to which people share meals together as a proxy for the quality of our social connections and the quantity of social connections that we have, essentially our social capital, if you will. In the last seven days over the past week, how many of your lunches and dinners were shared with somebody else? So about one in six people approximately in The United States were dining alone in the early two thousands, 2003 to be precise, and that's gone up to one in four people is dining alone in The United States by about 02/2023. So that's a 53% increase or so in dining alone, but strikingly, mostly youth. To be really precise, youth are almost twice as likely to be dining alone today as compared to two decades ago.

我当时就想，哇。

And I thought, wow.

这些发现意义重大，因为独自进食对健康相当不利，而我们许多人发现自己即便身处家人、同事或同学之中，仍经常独自享用午餐或晚餐。独食现象如此普遍，为此我专门请教了一位经验丰富的临床心理学家、家庭治疗师及共餐倡导者寻求建议。

These findings are huge because eating alone is pretty bad for you, and a lot of us are finding ourselves having lunch or dinner by ourselves even when we have families around us at home, colleagues at work, or peers at college. It's so easy to end up eating alone. So I've turned to an experienced clinical psychologist, family therapist, and an advocate for shared meals for advice.

我父亲每天7点整准时进门，七点十分准时开饭，精准得可以用来对表。

You could set the clock by my father walking through the door at 07:00, and dinner started at ten after seven.

这位是安妮·菲舍尔博士，哈佛医学院副教授。

This is doctor Anne Fischel, associate professor at the Harvard Medical School.

他会脱下西装换上家居服，然后我母亲、父亲、姐姐和我一起入座。我们家没有其他仪式，甚至不过感恩节，但晚餐时间神圣不可侵犯。我母亲讨厌被困在厨房，所以她做的每顿饭都极快。快到我多年后第一次举办晚宴时，把烤鸡放进烤箱三十分钟就取出来了——因为我从没见过她在厨房待超过半小时。

He would get out of his suit and put on his play clothes, and we would sit down, my mother, my father, and my sister. We didn't really do any other rituals. We didn't have Thanksgiving, but dinner was sacrosanct. And my mother didn't like to be stuck in the kitchen, so every meal she made was super quick. So quick that years later when I hosted my first dinner party, I put a chicken, a roast chicken, in and took it out after thirty minutes because I'd never seen her spend more than thirty minutes in the kitchen.

结果当然是一团糟。但那些晚餐对我的童年至关重要，如今回想起来，我意识到现在作为家庭治疗师的许多技能，其实都源自童年餐桌：比如如何化解冲突，如何理解沉默者可能心事重重，如何引导每个人发言，听家人讲故事、聊邻里八卦的乐趣——所有这些，我都是在餐桌上学会的。

And of course it was a bloody mess. But anyway, those dinners were really important to me as a child, and looking back I realized that a lot of the things that I know now about being a family therapist I learned around my childhood dinner table. You know how to diffuse conflict, how even if somebody's quiet, it doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of things on their mind, how important it is to draw everybody out so everybody has a chance to talk, how fun it is to hear stories about family members, to hear gossip about people in the building or the neighborhood. So all of that, I learned at my dinner table.

她如此坚信共餐的价值，甚至协助创立了'家庭晚餐计划'。我请她简要介绍一下这个项目。

And such a believer in the virtues of us all eating together that she helped found the family dinner project. I asked her to explain a little bit about it.

我是2010年2月的联合创始人之一，我们的使命是基于家庭晚餐的研究益处，即定期家庭聚餐带来的营养、认知和心理健康优势。我对家庭的定义非常宽泛——家庭是任何让你有归属感的人，是你找到社群的地方，可以包括没有血缘关系的人。

So I was one of the cofounders in 02/2010, and the mission is to build on the research based benefits of family dinner, the benefits that come from regular family dinners that bring nutritional, cognitive, and mental health benefits. I define family really broadly. Family is anybody who makes you feel like home. Family is anywhere that you find community. That could be people who aren't related to you.

我开始与痴呆症患者合作，我认为他们的家人还包括记忆护理单元的其他住户和护理人员。家庭可以是大学食堂里一起吃饭的学生，也可以是周三疲惫夜晚来聚餐的朋友。我们发现90%的美国家庭认为家庭晚餐是个好主意，但实际定期共进晚餐的家庭不到50%。因此'家庭晚餐计划'旨在弥合这个差距，让晚餐更轻松、可行、简单、有趣且有意义，使更多家庭能获得这些研究支持的益处。

I'm starting to work with patients with dementia, and I would say part of their family are the other residents in the memory care unit, as well as the caregivers. It can be college aged kids eating together in a cafeteria. It can be friends coming over for a tired Wednesday night dinner. And what we found was that ninety percent of most American families think that family dinners are a great idea, but fewer than 50% of families are eating dinner together. So the family dinner project was designed to bridge that gap, to make it easier, more doable, simpler, more fun, more meaningful, so that more families could harness these research backed benefits of family dinner.

那么我们来谈谈家庭晚餐为何如此重要。或许先从身体健康益处开始？增加家庭聚餐如何改善我们的身体健康？

And so let's talk about why family dinners are so important. Maybe starting with the physical health benefits. How can our physical health benefit from kind of having more family dinners?

家常菜有许多营养优势，即便烹饪不复杂。分量通常比餐厅少，这可能是家庭晚餐与较低肥胖率相关的原因。此外家常菜往往糖盐脂肪含量更低，蔬果和其他营养素更丰富。研究还发现这与青少年更好的心血管健康相关，甚至能降低哮喘症状——后者可能有些费解，或许因为哮喘有时与焦虑相关，而放松无压力的晚餐能缓解焦虑。

So there are a lot of nutritional benefits that come from home cooked meals even if you're not trying that hard. Portion size tends to be smaller than the restaurant equivalents, which may account for lower obesity rates associated with regular family dinners. But also home cooked meals tend to be lower in sugar and salt and fat and higher in fruits and vegetables and other nutrients. It's also associated with better cardiovascular health in young teens and also associated with lower asthma symptoms, which may be a little puzzling. Maybe it's because sometimes asthma is associated with anxiety, which is lowered if the dinner is relaxing and not so stressful.

也可能因为父母能提醒孩子服药。这些都是健康益处的一部分。

Maybe it's because parents can remind their kids to take medication. So these are some of the health benefits.

你提到的焦虑让我想到家庭晚餐对心理健康的诸多好处。能具体说说吗？

And so your anxiety comment also reminds me that there are lots of mental health benefits to family dinners. What are some of those?

确实有很多。作为家庭治疗师，我常开玩笑说如果更多家庭定期共进晚餐，我可能就要失业了。对孩子而言，这关联着更低的焦虑抑郁率、更少的药物滥用和少女怀孕现象、更低的饮食失调概率，同时提升抗逆力、自尊心，孩子会感到与父母更亲密。研究还显示成年人同样受益——无论是与孩子还是其他成人共餐，都能降低抑郁焦虑发生率。

There really are. I mean, there's so many that as a family therapist, I sort of joke I could almost be out of business if more families had regular family dinners. So they're associated with, on the part of kids, lower rates of anxiety and depression, lower rates of substance use and teenage pregnancy, lower rates of eating disorders, and on the upside with more resilience, more self esteem, and kids reporting that they feel more connected to their parents when they have regular family dinners. And then it turns out there are mental health benefits for adults too. Lower rates of depression and anxiety for adults who eat with their kids, but also adults who eat with other adults.

我对心理健康益处感到非常、非常兴奋。

I can get very, very excited about the mental health benefits.

刚开始阅读您的研究时，另一个让我惊讶的益处是，尤其是对孩子而言，家庭晚餐还能带来认知和学业上的好处。关于这方面我们了解多少？

Another benefit that that was surprising when I first started reading your work is this idea that they're also, especially for kids, these cognitive and academic benefits that come from family dinners. What do we know about those?

是的。对于幼儿或学龄前儿童来说，当父母在餐桌上随意闲聊一天的经历时，这些日常对话中包含的罕见词汇量是两、三岁孩子预期认知水平的十倍，也比儿童绘本中出现的生僻词多十倍。我认为其重要性在于，词汇量大的孩子比词汇量小的孩子更早且更容易学会阅读。我刚把这项研究引用给我儿子听——他有个两岁的孙女，她总问父母'你们在聊什么呀？'——我说这太棒了。

Yeah. So for young kids or preschoolers and toddlers, the language that they hear around the dinner table as their parents are sort of casually catching up about the day, those little stories contain 10 times more unusual or rare words than would be expected for a two year old or a three year old to know, and 10 times more unusual words than would show up in picture books that kids are read to. I think why that's significant is that kids who have larger vocabularies read earlier and more easily than kids who have slimmer vocabularies. I was just quoting this research to my son who has a two year old grandchild, and she was saying to her parents, what are you two talking about? And I said, that's so great.

知道吗？我希望你们能告诉她谈话内容，因为这会为她的词汇量提供小小的助力。

You know, I hope you told her what you were talking about because that's gonna give a little boost to her vocabulary.

看起来益处很多，但有时家庭在筹划聚餐时，往往会感到完全不知所措。有些家庭甚至对此心生畏惧。在'家庭晚餐计划'中你们也常听到这类反馈吗？

So it seems like there are all these benefits, but it seems like sometimes when families think about figuring out a family meal, it sometimes feels just totally overwhelming. Sometimes families even treat it with dread. Is this the kind of thing that you hear in the family dinner project too?

当然。我们现代人实在太忙碌、太疲惫、太焦头烂额了。大多数孩子课外活动繁多，家庭晚餐就像待办清单上又一项任务。这就是首要挑战或障碍——我们太累了。

Absolutely. I mean, we are such a busy, tired, harried people. You know, most of our kids are doing so many extracurricular activities that it can just feel like one more thing on the to do list. And that is the number one challenge or obstacle. You know, we're too tired.

我们的时间表总是对不上。因此在'家庭晚餐计划'中，我们花费大量时间与全国数十万家庭交流，试图为这个普遍难题寻找变通方案。

Our schedules don't mesh up. And so at the Family Dinner Project, we've spent a lot of time talking to hundreds of thousands of families across the country to find out some workarounds for this common challenge.

那么我们来谈谈那些最常被提及的障碍吧。据我了解，最大的障碍就是时间问题。

So let's talk about some of the barriers you hear about most often. I understand the biggest one is just time.

没错。时间不够、太疲惫、挑食的家人——无论是伴侣还是孩子。你知道，如果不是所有人都会吃，那费心做一顿饭的意义何在？我不想像个快餐厨师那样做四份不同的餐食。我费心做好了饭，结果要么吵架要么没人说话。

Right. Time, being too tired, picky eaters, whether that's a partner or a child. You know, what's the point of going to the trouble of making a meal if not everybody's gonna eat it? I don't want to be a short order cook and make four different meals. I go to the trouble of making the meal, and then all we do is fight or nobody talks.

我无法让大家开口交谈。餐桌上的冲突与紧张气氛。预算焦虑。健康食品太贵了。怎样才能让每一分钱都物有所值，让孩子们吃上未加工的健康食品？

I can't get people to talk. Conflict and tension at the table. Budget worries. Healthy food is so expensive. How do I get my dollar to stretch so that I can feed my children unprocessed healthy food?

餐桌上的分心问题。孩子们打开电子设备，我想我们大人也一样。该怎么处理餐桌上的科技产品？所以我认为这些就是我反复听到的常见障碍。

Distraction at the table. My kids turn on their gadgets, and I guess we do too. What do we do about technology at the table? So I'd say those are the recurring obstacles that I hear about over and over.

听到这些障碍时，似乎真的很难实现家庭聚餐，但你曾指出部分障碍源于我们的观念。我们对'什么是合格的家庭晚餐'存在误解。让我们逐一剖析这些误解，试着澄清认知。对吧？其中一个误解是：必须全员到场才算真正的家庭晚餐。

When we hear these barriers, it seems really, like, hard to get to dinner, but you've argued that part of the barriers comes from our minds. So we have these misconceptions about the things that count as family dinners. And so let's go through some of these misconceptions and see if we can kind of, like, clear the air. Right? One of the misconceptions is this idea that for a family dinner to really count as a family dinner, everybody has to be there.

每个人都必须全程参与。事实真是如此吗？我们该如何重新理解这个问题？

Everybody has to be there for the whole time. Is this really the case? How should we think about this differently?

首先我要声明，这不是怀旧工程。明白吗？我们并非要回到1950年代一尘不染的厨房——那时母亲整天在家烤着...比如说猪里脊。幸好那种时代已经过去了。所以家庭晚餐的重点不在于食物本身，而在于家人围坐食物旁时发生的互动。

First off, I wanna say this isn't a nostalgia project. You know? We're not trying to go back to the spotless kitchens of the 1950s where a mother was home all day baking a I don't know, a pork loin. Fortunately, that ship has sailed. So family dinner is less about the food than about what happens once the family gathers around the food.

所以最好专注于餐桌上的氛围、交谈和享受美好时光。我称之为晚餐的秘制酱料。你说得对，家庭聚餐不必全家人围坐。有个家庭告诉我，他们的规矩是‘不让任何人独自吃饭’。

So really best to focus on the atmosphere around the dinner table, conversation, having a good time. You know, I call that the secret sauce of dinner. And you're absolutely right. Family dinner doesn't have to be the whole family sitting down. As one family said to me, we have a rule no one eats alone.

这是个有五个儿子的家庭，他们采用轮班制晚餐。可能两人先吃，稍后其中一人再陪其他人吃。他们会准备能反复加热的炖菜或汤。这打破了另一个迷思——聚餐不必全员到场。

This was a family with five sons, and they did kind of split shift dinners. So they would have two people eating, and then later on maybe one of those people would join another and so on. And they would have one meal that could be reheated, maybe a stew or a soup. So that's another myth. It doesn't have to be everybody.

甚至不必是晚餐。对某些家庭而言，晚餐时段实在太混乱。可以是家庭早餐，或是周末与亲友共享的丰盛早午餐。

It doesn't have to be dinner. For some families, dinnertime is just beyond the pale. It's just too hectic. It could be family breakfast. It could be a fabulous Sunday brunch with extended family.

每周其实有16次机会——7次早餐、7次晚餐加2次周末午餐。还有特意安排的零食时间，比如十点离开电脑到厨房餐桌边吃苹果配热可可。参与者也不限于家人。

There are really 16 opportunities in a week. Seven breakfasts, seven dinners, and two weekend lunches. And then there are also intentional snacks. You know, push away from your computer, come down to the kitchen table at 10:00, and let's have apples and hot chocolate. And then it doesn't have to be family.

可以是你和挚友，可以是周二读书讨论小组，也可以是养老院里共进晚餐的老人们。

It could be you and a best friend. It could be a Tuesday night group that gets together to talk about books over food. It could be elders at assisted living breaking bread together.

聚餐之所以困难，似乎是因为我们给自己设了荒谬的标准，过分追求完美。而‘家庭晚餐计划’的宗旨就是告诉大家：不必完美，只需更频繁地实践——这是种带着宽容的家庭聚餐。

It seems like one of the reasons that meeting together to have these meals is so challenging is we put these, like, ridiculous restrictions on ourselves. We get kind of perfectionistic about it. And it seems like your goal with the family dinner project is just to say, we don't have to do this perfectly. We just should do this a little bit more often. So it's kind of family dinner with a bit more grace than we usually give ourselves.

这个说法很棒。完美主义在此无益。和幼儿共餐可能只有五分钟，但这很好，是个可延续的开始。

I love the way you put that. Perfect is really not our friend here. Dinner with a toddler might be five minutes. That's fine. That's something to build on.

要知道，美国人平均晚餐时间只有22分钟。不必是从头开始做的食物，不必是祖传番茄，不必是完美烤鸡，也不必是完美的餐桌礼仪。

You know, the average American dinner is only 22 minutes. Doesn't have to be food made from scratch. It doesn't have to be heirloom tomatoes. Doesn't have to be a perfectly roasted chicken. Doesn't have to be perfect manners.

是的。放下对完美的执念，给自己更多宽容。

Yes. Let go of the perfect and give yourself some more grace.

所以与家人、朋友和同事共进餐食有诸多益处。我们现在要短暂休息一下。回来后，安妮将分享更多关于如何克服阻碍我们共享餐食的所有障碍的建议。

So eating meals with family, friends, and colleagues has a ton of benefits. We're gonna take a quick break now. But when we get back, Anne will have more tips on how to overcome all the obstacles that stop us sharing meals.

我是Aliza Kelly，你们的精神伙伴，《每周星座》的主持人。每周一我会带来星座周报，解析最重要的星象事件并为每个星座提供运势指南。每周三则奉上深度占星内容，探讨那些真正塑造你生活、爱情、财务等方方面面的星象力量。每周一和周三，在任意播客平台收听《每周星座》。完整占星节目可在YouTube上搜索Open Mind Studios频道观看。

I'm Aliza Kelly, your spiritual friend and host of Horoscope Weekly. On Mondays I have your weekly download where I break down the biggest astrological events and share horoscopes for every single zodiac sign. And on Wednesdays, I serve up the astrology which is where we dive into the astrology that really shapes your life, your love life, your financial life, and everything in between. So listen to Horoscope Weekly every Monday and every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. And to catch full astrology episodes on YouTube, just search for Open Mind Studios channel.

休息前，Anne Fischel博士向我们剖析了许多阻碍我们享受共餐时光的因素——无论是与家人在家用餐、招待朋友，还是工作中与同事共进午餐。我请Anne分析了这些障碍并提供具体解决方案。

Before the break, Doctor. Anne Fischel took us through a lot of the things that stop us from enjoying shared meals, be that eating with our loved ones at home, having friends over or sitting down with others during our lunch break at work. I asked Anne to break down those obstacles and offer some concrete solutions.

对许多家庭来说，这感觉像是待办清单上的又一项任务。我想说的是——希望不会显得太说教——家庭用餐时间确实是我们最可靠的时刻：可以眼神交流、玩乐放松、分享每日故事。毕竟我们不再围坐篝火讲故事，也不再写信叙述见闻。所以只需提醒家庭这是多么宝贵的机会，能产生多么深远的影响。

For a lot of families, it just feels like another thing on their to do list. And, you know, partly I like to, without being too preachy, I hope, to say family mealtime is really the most reliable time that we have to look eye to eye, to have fun, to relax, to share stories about our day. You know, we don't sit around campfires telling stories. We don't write letters with stories. So just reminding families what a rich opportunity this is and how it packs really such a punch.

然后要努力设计些极其简单的餐食，简单到闭着眼都能做。比如用橱柜存货就能做的番茄意面，或我称为'瑜伽鸡蛋'的料理——下班六点到家后，六点半就要出门时，只需快速炒些蔬菜再铺上鸡蛋。列出这些菜谱并让家人提供建议清单，这样就不会有人抱怨。你们会有个轮换菜单，虽然未必每道菜都受所有人喜爱，但大家愿意吃，就能更快进入家庭晚餐的欢乐时光。还要评估晚餐是否真是你家一天中最合适的共处时段。

And then you know really trying to come up with some meals that are very very easy that you could almost make in your sleep. Food that you have in your pantry, like a pasta with tomato sauce or what I call my yoga eggs that I can make when I get off work at six and have to be out the door by 06:30 that are just quick sauteed vegetables with eggs on top. So coming up with those and getting a list of meals from your family so that you won't get bellyaching. You'll have like a rotating list of meals you know are acceptable to every maybe they don't all adore every meal, but they'll eat them, and you can get on to the more fun things about family dinner. And taking stock of whether dinner is really the best time of day for your family.

或许可以从早餐开始。多年前，Cheerios公司找到我们说，虽然你们是家庭晚餐项目，但要不要试试家庭早餐项目？于是我们设计了只需七分钟的早餐方案，因为如果不按贪睡闹钟，你每天就能多出这七分钟。我们准备了简易餐点，附带早餐桌游戏和话题开场白，所有内容都聚焦于展望新的一天而非回顾过去。

Maybe it's breakfast. Years ago, Cheerios came to us and said, we know you're the family dinner project, but how about the family breakfast project? And we came up with breakfast that took seven minutes because that's the amount of time if you don't press your snooze alarm, you can get seven minutes of your day back. And so we built easy meals with a game to play at the breakfast table and a conversation starter. And they were all about anticipating the day rather than reviewing it.

如果用天气比喻今天，你会怎么形容？我们可能在一天结束时验证这个比喻，或是问'你最期待什么''有什么担忧'，或是互相写便条放进午餐盒。对于忙碌的家庭来说，这是转换注意力的另一种方式。

If you came up with a weather analogy for the day, what would it be? And then we might check it at the end of the day, or what are you most looking forward to, or what are you worried about, or let's write some notes and put them in each other's lunch boxes or lunch bags. So that's another thing for very busy families is to pivot to something else.

你还提到过实施所谓'弹性分段用餐'的可能性，这特别适用于家人无法同时到齐的情况。这种模式如何运作？为何效果显著？

You've also mentioned the possibility of engaging in what you've called flexible courses, and this is particularly for families that might not have everybody home at the same time. How does this work, and why is it so effective?

是的。我从家庭生命周期的不同阶段来思考这个问题。比如有对夫妇的幼儿七点就寝，他们想共进家庭餐但还不饿，就可以先陪孩子吃些蔬菜切块或奶酪当作孩子的晚餐。等孩子入睡后，他们再享用正式晚餐。

Yeah. So I'm thinking about it at different stages of the life cycle. You know, if a family if a couple has a a toddler who goes to sleep at seven, and they wanna have a family meal, but they're really not ready to eat. So maybe they enjoy some cut up vegetables or some cheese with their toddler while the toddler has her family dinner. They put their toddler to bed and then they have the rest of their family dinner.

或者当孩子长大后因体育训练晚归，可以在五点一起享用营养加餐——这时正是亲子游戏、话题交流和共享食物的好时机。等孩子八点回家后，再参与家庭正餐吃甜点。这种弹性分段模式根据孩子年龄阶段和家庭日程灵活调整，自由组合用餐人员和时段。

Or if you've got kids as they get older coming home late from sports practices, you might have a big nutritional snack with them at 05:00 and that's really the time that one parent and a child plays games, has conversation starters, enjoys that meal. But then when the child comes home at 08:00, maybe they join in the family dinner and they have dessert with the other family members. So it's the idea of sort of flexible courses depending on the age and stage of the child and how busy the different schedules are. You can sort of mix and match who eats what with whom when.

你还主张对抗忙碌日程的方法之一是要抵制过度承诺的文化。我认为这点至关重要，具体是指什么？

You've also argued that one of the things we need to do to fight against these busy schedules is to really push back on this culture of commitment. I thought this was a really important one. What do you mean there?

没错。我的同事比尔·多尔蒂是明尼苏达州的家庭治疗师，他发起过全州范围的抵制行动——组织家长集体与教练或戏剧导演协商：'我们很欣赏足球训练和《麦克白》演出，但家庭晚餐对我们至关重要。能否调整排练时间或适当延后？'

Yeah. So there's a colleague of mine named Bill Dougherty, who's also a family therapist in Minnesota, and he mounted a kind of statewide pushback program where he would organize parents to go together to talk to the coaches or the director of a play and say, we love what you're doing. Our kids love being involved in soccer and Macbeth, but family dinner is really important to all of us for all these different reasons. Could you adjust the rehearsal schedules? Could you make them a little bit later?

让他们早点结束，这样我们的孩子就能回家吃晚饭？这比让某个抱怨的人去找足球教练请求调整日程要有效得多。所以我认为家长确实有能力影响课外活动安排，只是他们不常运用这种影响力。

Have them end earlier so our kids can get home for dinner? That was so much more effective than having one squeaky wheel going to go to the soccer coach to say, please please change the schedule. So you know I think that parents really have that power to influence extracurricular activities, and I think they don't deploy it very often.

这些就是我们用来对抗时间障碍的策略。对吧？保持一点灵活性，或许安排些短暂休息，推掉一些不必要的承诺。那么对于那些觉得烹饪太麻烦的人，有什么策略呢？真正让他们头疼的是如何搞定晚餐这部分。

So those are some strategies we can use to push back against this barrier of time. Right? Get a little flexible, maybe have some short breaks, Push back against some of these commitments. What about strategies for people who just think that the cooking is too much work? That the overwhelming part is really figuring out the dinner part.

他们该怎么应对这种情况？

How can they deal with that?

是的。我想说我们的网站'家庭晚餐计划'提供了大量简单食谱，材料不超过八种，制作时间三十分钟以内。家庭可以注册获取'今日晚餐'方案，包含食谱、聊天话题和小游戏。我们还有经济型方案，人均约2.1美元。另外也可以在周末批量制作两三倍的量，冷冻保存一半或三分之二，这样下周只需解冻炖菜或汤品，晚餐就基本准备好了。

Yeah. So I would say our website, the family dinner project, has a ton of, great easy recipes that are eight ingredients or less, take thirty minutes or less, and families can sign up and get a dinner tonight, which has a recipe and then a conversation starter and a game. And we have budget friendly, they're about $2.10 per person. So there's that. There's also maybe making double or triple batches over the weekend and freezing half of them or two thirds of them so that next week you have you can just defrost a stew or a soup, and you've got most of your dinner made.

你可以请其他家庭成员帮忙。我认为让晚餐变得更愉快的重要环节就是获得协助，无论是采购食材、烹饪、清洁还是摆盘。孩子和伴侣当然可以参与。我们与军人家庭合作时了解到，当配偶被派驻外地成为单亲家长时，他们会进行晚餐交换——一次性准备四份相同餐食，然后聚会交换。

You can ask other members of your family to help out. You know, that's I think a really important part of making dinner more enjoyable is getting help, whether it's with the grocery shopping or cooking part of it or cleaning up or setting the table. Kids and partners, of course, can participate in this. We've done quite a bit of work with military families who tell us about doing dinner swaps when their spouses are deployed and they're single parents. And what they do is they make four times one meal, and then they meet, and they swap.

交换后他们能获得四种不同的餐食，供接下来一周使用。这也是个不错的方法。

And they come away from the swap with four different meals that they can deploy for the rest of the week. So that's something else.

我特别喜欢这个主意，因为朋友生小孩时经常这样。比如我就参与过很多次，当有人特别忙——比如刚生了宝宝——我们就会多做些千层面送给他们，其他家庭也这么做。但我们忘了其实不需要新生儿作为理由，随时都可以采用这种策略。

I love that idea so much because I feel like this happens when friends have new babies. Like, I've been involved in lots of these kind of, oh, someone's really busy. They have a new baby. Let's you know, I just make an extra batch of my lasagna to give to them and other families do the same thing. But we forget that we don't necessarily need a newborn to be able to use a strategy like that.

比如，许多家庭每周都可以这样做，为多个家庭准备多种不同的有趣餐食。是的。

Like, a bunch of families can do that every single week and get multiple different interesting meals for, like, a bunch of families. Yeah.

完全同意。或者说，可能只有军人家庭才能组织得这么井井有条，但你可以每周和朋友或邻居一起做一次。所以我觉得这里有些更容易实现的方法。

Absolutely. Or it could be done I mean, you maybe have to be a military family to be that organized, but you could do it once a week with a friend or a neighbor. So I think there there's some sort of lower hanging fruit there.

这也让我想到另一个方面，就是对自己宽容些，不必追求最完美的餐食可能更有帮助。有时候我们给自己太大压力，结果反而无法做到我们想要的那种——

This also strikes me as another spot where just kind of giving ourselves grace and maybe not going for the most perfectionist meals possible can be helpful. Like, I think sometimes we end up putting so much pressure on ourselves that we never do the kind of

理想状态

thing that we want

。而如果我们同意做到75%完美的家庭晚餐，实际上我们会比追求完美时做得更频繁。

to do. Whereas if we just agreed to do it, you know, 75% awesome family dinners, we'd wind up doing it much more often than if we were trying to do it perfectly.

没错。而且可以采用些快捷方式，比如购买预切好的蔬菜或烤鸡。不必做沙拉，而是摆出各种沙拉配料加上金枪鱼或鸡蛋沙拉，让家人自己搭配。这种方法也适用于塔可饼、可丽饼。对于口味差异大的家庭来说，这也是应对挑食者的好策略。

Yes. And doing some short cuts, you know, getting vegetables that have been precut or a rotisserie chicken. You know, not making a salad, but putting all the different accoutrements for a salad out plus some tuna fish or some egg salad and asking family members to assemble their own. And that can be done with tacos, with crepes. That's also a nice strategy for selective eaters if you've got very different tastes in the families.

这样人们可以按自己喜好定制选择。同时也算是种快捷晚餐，类似熟食拼盘式的晚餐。

It's a way to have people be able to customize and choose what they want. But it's also kind of a quick dinner, like a charcuterie board kind of dinner.

这些都是克服'烹饪感觉太费事'这一障碍的方法。那么技术障碍呢？尤其是我们越来越难以放下电子设备，哪怕只是在餐桌上放下二十分钟。这方面有什么解决方案吗？

And so those are all ways to kind of fight this barrier that cooking feels like it's too much work. How about the barrier of technology? Especially the fact that it's harder and harder for us to put our tech devices away even for just, you know, twenty minutes over the dinner table. What are some solutions there?

是的。我几年前做过一项调查，发现父母在餐桌上使用电子设备的概率是孩子的两倍。所以我第一条建议就是让父母以身作则，示范他们希望孩子做到的良好行为。有些家庭实行严格的'无科技产品'政策——所有人把手机放在餐桌中央，谁伸手去拿就要负责洗碗。

Yeah. I did a survey a few years ago and found that parents were twice as likely to use their gadgets at the dinner table. So my first bit of advice is to ask the parents to kind of model the good behavior that they want from their kids. Some families have a very strict no technology policy. You know, everybody put their phones in the middle of the table, and anybody who goes to reach for it has to do the dishes.

还有些家庭采用更灵活的版本，比如允许查证争论的细节，比如'1984年世界大赛冠军是谁'。另一些家庭则允许分享手机里的照片或有趣邮件，这具有不同的意义——因为它保持了餐桌上的联结焦点。对这些家庭，规则是'不能用手机联系不在场的人'，即禁止发短信或接电话，但可以向餐桌其他人分享手机内容。

And then some families have a more flexible version of that, and it might look like we can check our gadgets if it's to check a detail that we're having a fight about, like who won the World Series in 1984. And then some families say, well, I want to be able to share a picture I took or a funny email I got, and that seems to have a kind of a different spirit because it keeps the focus on connection at the table. So for those families, the rule is we can't use our phones to connect with people who aren't there. So no texting with others or taking phone calls. But it's okay to share things that came up on your phone today as long as it's to the rest of the table.

甚至有些游戏可以融合科技元素，比如'热土豆自拍'：设置定时器传递手机，铃声响起时自拍，轮流进行直到所有人完成，最后就能收获一组有趣的晚餐纪念照。

And then there's even some games that can incorporate technology like a hot potato selfie. You set the timer and you pass it around, and when the timer goes off, you take a selfie. And then you set the timer and you pass it around until everybody has taken a selfie. And then, you know, you have a funny little collection of photos from that dinner.

现在是短暂休息时间，稍后我们将继续聆听安妮更多建议，包括如何化解那些破坏用餐氛围的餐桌争执。《幸福实验室》马上回来

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be back with more tips from Anne, including advice on how to diffuse the dinner table disagreements that can mess up so many meals. The Happiness Lab will be right

灵性挚友兼《每周星座》主持人。每周一我会带来星座周报，解读重大星象事件并为每个星座提供运势指南；每周三的深度星象栏目，我们将探索真正影响你生活、爱情、财务等各个方面的星象密码。请在各大播客平台订阅《每周星座》，每周一三更新。完整星象节目请前往YouTube搜索Open Mind Studios频道观看。

spiritual friend and host of Horoscope Weekly. On Mondays, I have your weekly download where I break down the biggest astrological events and share horoscopes for every single zodiac sign. And on Wednesdays, I serve up the astrology which is where we dive into the astrology that really shapes your life, your love life, your financial life, and everything in between. So listen to Horoscope Weekly every Monday and every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. And to catch full Astrology episodes on YouTube, just search for Open Mind Studios channel.

当想到与亲友共餐时，我总先考虑备餐——需要什么食材？何时预热烤箱？但安妮·菲舍尔博士认为，我们更应精心准备餐桌对话。游戏和话题提示是很好的方式，可以是经典游戏如'二十问'或'二选一'，也可以尝试安妮家宴项目网站推荐的'猜食材'游戏。

When I think of shared meals with friends and family, my mind usually goes to meal prep. What ingredients do I need, and when should I turn the oven on? But doctor Anne Fischel thinks we should actually put more thought into preparing the dinner table conversation. Games and prompts are a great way to do this. It could be old favorites like 20 questions or would you rather or a suggestion from Anne's family dinner table project website, a game of guess the ingredients.

就像一顿饭需要盐和胡椒，它也需要趣味和欢乐。

Just like a meal needs salt and pepper, it also needs playfulness and fun.

我认为我们生活中都需要更多玩乐，而游戏是实现这一点的绝佳方式。我在家庭治疗中会玩游戏，通常是和餐桌上玩的相同游戏。我不太喜欢在餐桌上玩竞争性游戏，但游戏常常能带来欢笑，引发对话。让我们围着桌子轮流分享：一朵'玫瑰'（今天发生的趣事或好事），一根'刺'（遇到的困难或不愉快），以及一个'花苞'（希望明天会发生的事）。

I think we all need more play in our lives, and games are a really great way to do it. I play games in family therapy, often the same games that I play at the dinner table. I don't love competitive games at the dinner table, but games often lead to laughter. They often lead to conversation. Let's go around the table and say a rose something funny or positive that happened, a thorn something difficult or unpleasant, and a bud, something we hope will happen tomorrow.

或者玩'两个真相一个谎言'：讲述这周发生的两件真事和一个厚脸皮的谎言，其他人要猜出哪件是编造的。这样能让孩子主动分享，而不只是问他们'今天过得怎样'。食物本身也具有许多可供玩耍的特性——它可以是滑溜溜的。

Or let's tell two truths and a lie. You know, tell two stories about something that happened this week and one thing that's just a bold faced lie, and others will try to guess which is the made up thing. So ways to get kids to share more without just asking them how was your day. And then I think food itself has so many different properties that we can play with. You know, it can be slippery.

食物有不同的气味和颜色，我们可以利用颜色做游戏。问问孩子：我们能做出一顿全红或全绿的饭吗？或者做一道彩虹餐？这样我们就能'吃下彩虹'，这本身就是很有营养的饮食方式。或者让我们玩转空间——

It can have different smells. It has different colors, and so we can play with color. Ask our kids what meal could we make that's all red or all green or what's a rainbow meal? And that way we can eat our colors, which itself is a very nutritious way to eat. Or let's play with space.

调换座位吧，因为家人往往夜复一夜坐在相同位置；或者来次野餐，在床上吃晚餐。食物对家庭的意义，就像乐高对小学生、音乐对青少年的意义——它是游戏的源泉。这是少数我们能亲手操作、调动所有感官共同创造的事物。在21世纪的美国，这种共同创造的机会多么难得啊！

Let's switch seats because families often sit in the same seats night after night, or let's have a picnic, or let's have a dinner in bed. Food is to families like Legos or to elementary school kids as music is to adolescents. It's the source of play. It's one of the few things that we can do with our hands and all our senses, and we can make something together. How rare is that in twenty first century America that we can create something together?

这对我来说真的非常有趣。

And that to me is just really fun.

我现在正代入了几位有幼儿的忙碌父母朋友的想法。当你说到玩转颜色和食物时，我脑海中浮现他们可能会说：'天哪，肯定会弄得一团糟，我根本没时间收拾。'对于设计避免清洁烦恼的游戏，有什么建议吗？

Like, I'm channeling some busy parent friends of mine who have toddlers and little kids. And as you're talking about playing with colors and playing with foods, I'm hearing in my head what they might say, which is like, oh my gosh. It's gonna be messy, and I don't have time to clean up. Any advice for kind of making games that avoid the, like, kind of cleanup worries too?

是的。我是说，我对混乱的容忍度其实很高，这里只是个小例子。让小孩把橄榄油抹在蔬菜上，然后高温烤制，基本上能确保他们会吃这些蔬菜，因为他们的小手已经碰过了，而且烤出来的蔬菜很脆。小孩子通常不喜欢黏糊糊的食物。所以，是的，这确实会弄得很乱。

Yeah. I mean, I I tend to have a really high tolerance for mess, which, I mean, there so here's just a small example. To have small kids smear olive oil on vegetables that get roasted at a high temperature will pretty much ensure that those kids will eat those vegetables because they've put their sticky little hands on it, and then the vegetables come out pretty crispy. Young kids tend not to like slimy foods. So yes, it's going be messy.

你的孩子会浑身——希望只是手上——沾满油。但想想这个交换条件：他们会吃到既美味又健康的食物，你也可以一起吃。

Your kids are going to be covered hopefully just their hands in oil. But think about the trade off. They're gonna eat something really delicious and healthy that you can eat too.

某种程度上，他们也在学习烹饪，对吧？在他们动手的过程中，你其实也在穿插烹饪示范。

And partly, they're learning how to cook too. Right? You're also kind of weaving in a cooking demonstration while they're doing it.

没错。等他们再大一点，这可能会给你带来巨大回报，说不定还会为你做点小菜呢。

That's right. This could this could pay you back big time when they're a little bit older, and maybe we'll do a little cooking for you.

我们做过一系列关于育儿策略的播客。经常听到的是，研究其他文化中育儿方式的人类学家发现，那些孩子更常参与烹饪、清洁等活动。而在美国，我们有时不愿让孩子做这些，觉得他们做不好或会搞砸。但这样反而失去了教育孩子的有趣机会。晚餐时间似乎正是我们可以更多实践这个理念的领域。

We had a whole series of podcasts about parenting and parenting strategies. And one of the things we often heard is that anthropologists who study parents in other cultures often find that they have kids getting more involved in things like cooking and cleaning and so on. And I think in The US, we sometimes don't want our kids to do that because we think they won't do it perfectly or they're kinda mess it up. But then we lose these really interesting opportunities for teaching our kids because we don't have them involved. It seems like dinnertime is yet another domain in which we could be doing this a little bit more.

完全同意。这让我想起两位家长艾琳和玛丽，她们有个四岁小男孩。其中一位妈妈非常讨厌混乱，也不喜欢让孩子玩食物之类的。她们每周从合作社领取蔬菜，有次拿到一个南瓜。

Absolutely. It reminds me of two parents, Aileen and Mary, who had a little four year old boy. And one of the moms really did not like mess at all and didn't really like the idea of playing with food and and all of that. And they would get their vegetables from a co op each week. And one week, they got a squash.

切开后小男孩惊呼：天哪！里面和外面完全不一样！这成了绝妙的切入点，可以讨论‘不要以貌取人’的道理。我觉得这就像是家庭晚餐的隐喻——餐桌上总藏着各种惊喜，它能成为许多有趣对话的起点，而不仅仅是关于食物。

They opened it up, and the little boy exclaimed, oh my goodness. It's so different inside compared to outside. And that was this amazing jumping off point for talking about all the different ways you can't, you know, judge a book by its cover. Sort of an analogy, I think, for family dinner that there are all kinds of surprises that lie around the table. So it can be the launching pad for lots of interesting conversations, not just about the food.

我认为这种将共餐视为亲密体验的想法触及了另一个我看到的障碍，这更多出现在单身人士或朋友想聚在一起吃饭时，而非家庭之间。即我们常常担心让别人进入我们的私人空间。对吧？比如今晚要请人来家里吃饭，我立刻会想，天啊，客厅里的东西还没收拾，厨房也乱糟糟的。有没有办法让我们对自己宽容些，允许亲友进入这些私密空间，从而获得家庭之外共餐的好处呢？

I think this idea of sharing meals as an intimate experience gets to yet another barrier I see coming up, not so much with families, but with maybe single folks or friends who wanna get together for meals, which is I think we're often worried about having people in our personal space. Right? You know, I think about even tonight having someone over for dinner and my head instantly goes to like, oh my gosh. I didn't put that stuff away that's in the living room or the kitchen is kind of a mess. Like, any ways to give ourselves grace and just allow our people into these intimate spaces so we can get the benefits of sharing meals even outside the family?

是的。我觉得一个方法是邀请朋友在你还没做完晚饭时过来，让他们参与做饭过程。你知道，特别是在随意的周三晚上，朋友往往愿意帮忙。他们乐意帮你切最后几样沙拉配料。我认为这更能营造'我们是一起的'氛围，让这顿饭成为共享的体验，而非客人来访的场合。

Yeah. I mean, I think one way is to invite a friend over when you haven't completed making the dinner so that you're bringing them into the making of the dinner. You know, often particularly on a casual Wednesday night, a friend would like to help. They'd like to help you cut up those last salad ingredients. And I think that creates more of a feeling of we're all in this together and this is a shared meal rather than you're a guest coming into it.

以前有客人来问'我们能带什么？'时，我总说'不用不用'。后来意识到这其实有点自私、控制欲强且追求完美。如果请他们带一道菜来，他们会感觉更受重视，我也能减轻备餐负担。

I used to when I would have guests over and they say, What can we bring? And I would say, Oh no, no, no, no. Don't bring anything. And then I realized that that was kind of selfish and kind of controlling and kind of perfectionistic. If I could ask them to bring a course, they already would feel more included, and I would also feel less burdened by having to make a meal.

其实有很多方式可以邀请外人或朋友参与。我想起一位军嫂写了本《与斯迈利家共进晚餐》的书，她丈夫整年在外服役。每个月他们都邀请社区里的人来吃饭，坐在父亲的椅子上——这周是教练，下周是缅因州州长。

I think there's so many different ways to involve outsiders or friends. I think of a military mother who wrote a book called Dinner with Smileys, and her husband was deployed for a whole year. And every month, they would invite somebody from their neighborhood or community to come to dinner and sit in the father's chair. One week it was a coach. One week it was the governor of Maine.

虽然他们肯定有为这些饭局打扫的压力，但这给常规家庭晚餐增添了有趣的变奏。还有我接触过的一个单亲家庭，母亲常觉得餐桌上不够热闹。于是亲友都知道每周三晚上是开放晚餐日，永远不知道谁会来。她总会为此多做些食物。

I'm sure they felt a pressure to clean up for those meals, but it added such an interesting variation on their regular family dinner. And then I think of a family I worked with, a single mom who often felt like there wasn't enough liveliness at the table because it was just one adult. And so her friends and her relatives knew that every Wednesday night was an open dinner night, and they never knew who would drop by. And she always, you know, made extra for that dinner.

我听过类似建议：比如固定周三为开放夜，甚至不用特意多做饭。朋友可以自带剩菜过来加热，别指望我做到完美。这就是个敞开大门的夜晚，让人随时可以加入。这让我想起记者奥利弗·布里克曼的建议，他总说要用更轻松的态度管理时间。

I've heard a similar suggestion where it's like you just have one night where it's like, you know, Wednesday is the open night. And maybe you don't even make extra dinner. It's like, as a friend, you can come over, but bring your own. Like, bring a leftover. You can microwave it.

别期待我做到十全十美。明白吗？但这个夜晚大门敞开，欢迎随时到来。这也让我想起记者奥利弗·布里克曼的建议，他谈过许多让我们以更轻松态度管理时间的方法。

Don't expect me to be perfect. Right? You know? But this is a night where, like, doors open and you can show up. It also reminds me of a suggestion that I got from the journalist Oliver Brickman who talks about all these things we can do to kind of manage our time with less perfectionism.

他有个理念叫做'粗放式待客之道'，就像你刚才说的那样。邀请人来家里，但得让他们帮忙洗碗、切菜，屋子也不会一尘不染。我们一开始就接受这种设定——我们就是要这样不拘小节地招待客人。

And he has this idea that he calls scruffy hospitality, which is kinda like you were saying. Like, you invite people over, but it's like, you're gonna have to do the dishes. You're gonna have to tell me chop these vegetables. The house is not gonna be clean. And we just sort of accept that at the beginning that, like, we're gonna have some hospitality.

我们会共享用餐时光，但过程会相当随性。

We're gonna have some shared mealtime, but it's gonna be pretty scruffy.

对，没错。就是把预期设定在合理的位置。

Right. Yeah. Like, set the expectations where they should be.

这似乎适用于所有这类事情。如果我们能找到更多超越家庭范围的共餐方式，会带来诸多好处。但要做到这点，我们确实需要降低对完美的期待值。

And it seems like that's just a message for all of this work. Right? There's so many benefits if we could find more ways to share meals broadly even beyond our family. But to do that, we really just have to set our expectations a little bit less perfectionistically.

是的。十五年来，'家庭晚餐计划'一直在组织大型社区聚餐，任何家庭聚集的地方都有我们的身影——图书馆、军事基地、无家可归者收容所、诊所、教学厨房。经常有互不相识的家庭群体，通过九十分钟的聚餐相识：我们一起烹饪、用餐、玩游戏，桌上放着话题罐，大家随机抽取或幽默或严肃的问题互相交流。之后我会询问家长或看护人：'你们在家庭晚餐方面做得好的地方是什么？'

Yes. One thing that we've been doing for, well, fifteen years at the Family Dinner Project is hosting big community dinners, and these are anywhere where families gather. Libraries, military bases, homeless shelters, clinics, teaching kitchens. There are often groups of families who don't know each other, but who come to know each other in a ninety minute dinner where we cook together, we eat together, we play games, we have conversation jars on the tables, and people reach in and ask whimsical or silly or serious things of one another. And then I talk to the parents or the caregivers and say, what do you do well when it comes to family dinner?

'遇到哪些困难？现在让我们选取部分难题，借助集体智慧分享解决方案和小窍门。'这正是我收获最多的地方——了解家庭如何在不易的情况下坚持共进晚餐。

And what are your obstacles? And now let's take some of those obstacles and use the wisdom in this group to share our workarounds and hacks. That's really where I've learned probably the most about how families find ways to have dinner even though it's really not that easy.

许多家庭面临的另一个障碍是餐桌上的紧张氛围。可能是政治分歧这样的大矛盾，但即便是小摩擦也很常见——比如'妈妈，你刚才说的话让我很不爽'这种情绪。

So another barrier lots of families face is that sometimes around the dinner table, there's tension. You know, maybe big tension. We have, you know, political disagreements, but even, like, little tension. I'm just, like, pissy at you, mom, for that thing you said to me.

有什么化解策略吗？

Any strategies for diffusing that?

有的。我想先分享一项我在疫情期间做的相关研究。关于疫情为数不多能说的好处，就是它提供了一个自然实验场景来观察家庭共进晚餐增多时的变化。约60%-70%的家庭在疫情期间增加了共同用餐频率。我的发现是：随着聚餐频率上升，家庭晚餐的积极特质也随之增强。

Yeah. So I wanna start with a piece of research on that, which I conducted during the pandemic. One of the only good things I can say about the pandemic is that it gave a naturalistic opportunity to study what happens when families have more dinner with one another. So something like 60%, 70% of families shared family dinners during the pandemic. And what I found was that as frequency increased, the positive qualities of family dinner also increased.

父母们反馈说更多谈论感恩话题，笑声更多了，会讨论家庭认同感，也更频繁交流新闻和公共事件。虽然会用Zoom联系亲友，但餐桌上的冲突和紧张也有所增加。

So parents reported that they talked more about gratitude. They laughed more. They talked about their identity as a family. They also shared more conversation about the news and public events. They used Zoom to connect with friends and family, but they also had more conflict and tension at the table.

起初这个发现让我有些沮丧，后来想明白了——朝夕相处自然会这样。晚餐就像画布，是家庭互动的舞台，而冲突本就是家庭生活的一部分。不过积极特质的增长幅度远超过负面因素。所以首先要说：适度冲突是正常预期。

And at first, I was sort of upset by that finding, and then I thought, well of course if you're spending more time with your family. But dinner is a canvas. It's an opportunity to do what families do, and one of the things they do is have conflict and fight. And I will say that the positive qualities increased way more than the negative ones. So first thing I would say is some conflict intention is to be expected.

记得我成长过程中，我们经常为政治问题争得面红耳赤。我很享受这些辩论，父母也是。对某些家庭而言，这类哲学或政治争论本就是家庭认同的重要部分。但总体而言，有些方法能减少冲突——最好别在孩子敏感话题上点火。

And I know growing up, we had drag out fights about politics. I love those fights, and I think my parents did too. So, you know, for some families, those kinds of philosophical or political fights are really part of their identity as a family. But in general, I think there are ways to minimize conflict. Probably not the best time to bring up topics you know are hot button issues for your kids.

比如别急着提化学课拿D的事，餐桌礼仪也别太较真。专注那些真正重要的规矩：别打断别人说话、别满嘴食物开口就行。谁在乎手肘放没放桌上呢？其他缓和冲突的方法包括做游戏、开展让人开怀或深思的对话。

Maybe don't talk about that D they got in chemistry. Maybe go easy on teaching table manners that makes everybody tense. Just focus on the manners that matter, that everybody can do better, you know, not interrupting each other or maybe not talking with a mouthful of food. But who cares about the elbows on the table? Other things that kind of mitigate against conflict is having fun, playing games, having conversations that make us laugh or think.

当然可以制定些基本规则，比如我们家规定：当有人发言时其他人不要插话。如果气氛太紧张，不妨暂停片刻做个深呼吸，让大家冷静一下。

And yes, there can be guidelines that are offered like we have a rule at the dinner table. Let's just remember that when one person is talking, other people don't talk over them or interrupt. Gosh this is getting a little heated. Let's just step away for a moment and take a break. Or let's do a quick breathing exercise and just calm down for a minute.

我经常思考冲突问题，尤其是在感恩节期间——这个节日恰好在选举之后。2016年，我担心自己在感恩节餐桌上的矛盾，于是设计了一个游戏，如今每年感恩节都会玩，我称之为'帽子游戏'。当亲友到来时，我会准备一顶帽子和便利贴，提出一个问题，请每个人匿名作答。第一年的问题是：'童年时期你最认同或最想成为哪个童话角色？'或者'你小时候或现在最喜欢的玩具是什么？'

I thought about conflict a lot, and often do at Thanksgiving, which is of course after elections. And in 2016, I was worried about my own conflict at the Thanksgiving table, and I came up with a game that I've now played every Thanksgiving that I call the hat game. And as people come in, I have a hat and post its at the table, and I have a prompt, and I ask everybody to answer the prompt anonymously. So that first year it was what character in a children's book did you most identify or do you most identify with or want to be? Or what toy did you most love as a child or love now as a child?

大家写好答案后，我把帽子拿到餐桌旁，逐一抽出便利贴，每个人都要猜测哪个答案对应哪个人，答对的人可以选择是否展开讲述。这样我们就能进行约十到十五分钟轻松愉快、充满趣味且毫无冲突的对话。

And people would answer them, and then I brought the hat to the table and pulled out the post its, and each person tried to guess which person went with which answer, and then that person could expound if they wanted. But it meant that for like ten or fifteen minutes, we had a lighthearted, interesting, conflict free conversation.

感谢Anne Fischel博士和Jan Emmanuel Deneve为我们讲解共进餐食的重要性。下期节目，我们将探讨报告中提出的另一个话题：我们是否正变得越来越不信任他人？这种趋势对我们的幸福感意味着什么？

Thanks to Doctor. Anne Fischel and Jan Emmanuel Deneve for walking us through the importance of sharing mealtime with other people. In the next episode, we'll examine another topic raised by the report. Are we becoming less trusting? And what does that mean for our well-being?

这些内容都将在下期《幸福实验室》节目中呈现，我是主持人Laurie Santos博士。

All that next time on The Happiness Lab with me, Doctor. Laurie Santos.

我是Jonathan Goldstein，在新一季《沉重人生》中，我帮助一位百岁老人修补破碎的心。

I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

一位101岁的女性如何能再次坠入爱河？

How can a 101 year old woman fall in love again?

我还帮助一个男人为他14岁时犯下的持械抢劫行为赎罪。

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.

于是我拿枪指着他，说，这不是开玩笑。他立刻蹲下了。我记得当时感觉有点

And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of

一股冲动涌上来，好吧，

a surge of like, okay,

这就是权力。而且，我的老朋友格雷戈尔和他兄弟试图通过催眠来解决我的问题。

this is power. Plus, my old friend, Gregor, and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism.

我们可以给你一个全新的设定，让你变得时刻都超级有魅力。

We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're, like, super charming all the time.

更能直视别人的眼睛。

Being more able to look people in the eye.

而不是总躲在麦克风后面。

Not always hide behind a microphone.

请在任意播客平台收听《重量级》。

Listen to heavyweight wherever you get your podcasts.

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.