#36 设计、勤奋与差异化：肖恩·莱蒙斯的启示

与此同时，我们在负荷计算和系统设计方面确实会用到一些软件工具。

In the meantime, we do use software tools around the load calculations and around the system design.

科罗拉多州的海拔给我们带来了相当独特的问题，我参与过一些安装在海拔一万一千英尺处的系统。

We have really, I would say, relatively unique challenges of altitude in Colorado, and I've been involved with systems that are being installed at 11,000 foot elevation.

而且人们总是固守成见。

And people close their minds.

你在说什么呢？

What are you talking about?

他们觉得根本行不通。

They can't work.

那里空气太稀薄了。

There's not enough air up there.

我们只需要认真算一算就行了。

We just gotta do the math.

对吧？

Right?

软件工具帮我们做这些计算。

And software tools help us do the math.

然后你得从技术和艺术两个角度来考虑这个问题。

And then it's this great you have to think about it from both a technical and artistic perspective.

对吧？

Right?

这确实是右脑和左脑的结合。

It's right brain, left brain for sure.

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

在节目开始前，我有两条简短的消息要分享。

Before the episode, I've got two quick updates for you.

首先，我很高兴告诉大家，我们新聘了一位工程师。

First, I'm very excited to say we've hired a new engineer.

衷心感谢所有推荐人选的朋友。

A huge thank you to all of you who shared referrals.

你们推荐的其中一位，就是我们新聘的软件工程师。

One of your referrals is our new software engineer.

所以我们非常感激。

So we are very grateful.

你们推荐的候选人很多，虽然我们没录用他们，但个个都很出色。

And we met a ton of candidates from you all who, though we didn't hire them, they were great.

你们推荐的这些人，水平真的让我们大吃一惊。

We were amazed by how good the folks were that you all recommended.

所以下次再招聘的时候，我们可能会继续用这个办法。

So we may use this strategy again next time we're hiring someone.

感谢每一位把优秀候选人推荐给我们的朋友。

But thank you to all of you who sent great candidates our way.

我们真心感谢。

We are deeply grateful.

另外，简单说一下今天来的嘉宾肖恩。

Second, a quick note about today's guest, Shawn.

我们几个月前录了这段对话，之后肖恩决定离开山地西部热泵公司，去追求完全属于自己的事业。

We recorded this conversation a couple of months ago, and since then, Shawn has actually decided to leave Mountain West heat pumps to pursue something fully his own.

他的新方向直接契合他的优势，以及他对电气化、建筑性能、技术设计、培训和教学的热情。

Something that speaks directly to his strengths and his passion for building electrification, building performance, technical design, training, and teaching.

他现在才刚开始探索下一步该怎么做，所以我就不多说了。

He's still early in that journey of figuring out what's next, so I won't say more than that.

接下来的路，还是由肖恩自己来书写和讲述。

That's Shawn's story to write and tell.

但他是个非常出色的人，经验极其丰富。

But he's an awesome guy with incredible experience.

他几乎拿遍了所有建筑科学领域的认证。

He has basically every building science certification that exists.

如果我刚才提到的这些，或者本期节目的其他内容让你有所触动，想和肖恩联系的话。

Those tidbits I just shared or the rest of this podcast spark anything in you and you'd like to connect with Shawn.

我们在节目说明里附上了他的领英主页。

We've linked his LinkedIn page in the show notes.

欢迎随时联系他，在那里给他发个消息吧。

Feel free to reach out and give him a ping there.

好的。

Alright.

好了，咱们进入本期节目。

With that, let's get into the episode.

你好。

Hi.

欢迎收听《Heap Punk Podcast》。

Welcome to the Heap Punk Podcast.

我是埃德·史密斯。

I'm Ed Smith.

我是埃里克·菲茨。

And I'm Eric Fitz.

我们是Amply Energy的联合创始人。

We are cofounders of Amply Energy.

今天，我们非常高兴邀请到肖恩·莱蒙斯，他是Mountain West Heat Pumps的联合创始人。

Today, we are thrilled to welcome Shawn LeMons, co owner of Mountain West Heat Pumps.

欢迎你，肖恩。

Welcome, Shawn.

你好。

Hey.

下午好，两位。

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

感谢你来参加我们的节目。

Thanks for joining us.

好的。

Alright.

今天我们聊的内容会很丰富。

We're gonna get into a bunch.

今天的话题都很精彩。

We got a good set of topics today.

在正式开始之前，你能简单给我们介绍一下Mountain West Heat Pumps吗？大概两分钟就行。

But before we even dive in, would you just give us like a two minute overview of Mountain West heat pumps?

你们的总部在哪儿？

Where are you guys?

简单说说你们的业务情况，让大家有个背景了解。

Overview of the business, that sort of thing, just so folks have context.

好的。

Yeah.

当然可以。

Sure.

很乐意分享。

Happy to do it.

没错。

Yeah.

我们公司叫Mountain West Heat Pumps，之前叫Midwest Appliance and HVAC，挺搞笑的，因为我们根本不在中西部，也不做家电。

So Mountain West heat pumps, which we recently changed our name from Midwest Appliance and HVAC, which is funny because we're not in the Midwest and we don't do appliances.

所以改名也是出于这个考虑，但我们主要做热泵。

So that was part of the prompt to change the name, but we focus on heat pumps.

我们专注于热泵供暖和热泵热水系统，主要是家用领域。

We focus on heat pump space heating and heat pump water heating, residential primarily.

太棒了。

Awesome.

你们公司成立多久了？

And how long have you guys been around?

我的合伙人德里克·金在2020年创办了这家公司，也就是疫情期间。对很多人来说，那时候创业似乎不太明智，但对暖通行业来说却不一样。

So my business partner, Derek King, started the company in 2020, basically, during the pandemic, which seems like a bad idea to start a business in the pandemic for a lot of people, but not HVAC.

对他来说，这倒是个机会。

It was an opportunity for him.

就像我们都知道的，那一年对暖通公司来说，正是重新切入市场、开拓新方式的好时机。

And as we most of us know, it was a good year for HVAC contractors to reengage the market in new ways.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的。

Alright.

这些背景信息特别有帮助。

Super helpful context.

现在我们稍微回过头来聊聊你。

Now, we wanna double back a little bit and talk about you.

你之前做过好多不同的事情。

So you have been in a whole bunch of different stuff.

比如你待过热泵制造商，做过能源咨询，现在又到了这个岗位。

Like, you were with a heat pump manufacturer, you were in energy consulting, and now you're in this role.

给我们讲讲你的故事吧，肖恩·莱蒙斯。

Give us the Shawn LeMons story a little bit.

你是怎么走到今天的？

Like, how did you get to where you are today?

是的

Yeah.

再多说说。

Tell us more.

我小时候，每年都能搬一次新家。

When I was a kid, I had the opportunity to live in a basically a new home every year of my life.

我父母一起工作，我会在他们之间来回住，他们让我自己决定跟谁生活。

So my parents worked together, I would go back and forth, and they gave me a chance to decide who I wanted to live with.

他们每次搬家，我也跟着换地方，去了很多不同的地方，比如亚利桑那、加州，还有夏威夷的一小部分。

And so I, as they tended to move, I also moved between them and got to see a lot of different homes, a lot of different places, Arizona, California, a little bit in Hawaii.

但在我小时候，有两个家一直没变过，其中一个是在亚利桑那北部的一座八角形木屋，两层楼高。

And but there were two homes that were consistent in my life as a kid, and one of them was an octagonal log cabin, two stories up in Northern Arizona.

那是我爸爸用当地滑雪场砍下来的木头亲手盖的。

So that was built by my father out of logs that came out of the local ski resort.

天哪。

Wow.

所以，那种成长方式就是我从小自己摸索出来的，适应当地气候的生活方式。

And so that was my sort of homegrown, old climate type of rearing.

另一个家是在亚利桑那州图森市，我奶奶住的一栋泥砖房。

And then the other home was an an adobe block home down in Tucson, Arizona where my grandmother lived.

我爷爷是在五十年代末亲手盖的这栋房子。

And my grandfather built that house back in the late nineteen fifties.

有了这两种截然不同的生活体验——寒冷气候和炎热气候，木结构和高热容材料，还有蒸发式冷却器、壁炉，各种各样的东西，我都亲身经历过。

And just having those two experiences, cold climate, hot climate, wood, high mass, There was evaporative coolers in the mix and all sorts of and fireplaces and all these things.

所以我从小就学会了在没有如今这些自动化设备的情况下，怎么自己创造舒适的居住环境。

And so I got to learn a lot about real world of creating your own comfort without all this automatic stuff that we come to expect these days.

后来，我就直接跳到我的职业生涯了。

And then from there, I moved into I'll fast forward into sort of my professional life.

那时候我本来想学建筑，但被筛掉了。

One piece there, wanted to go into architecture, but I got weeded out.

幸运的是，被筛掉反而让我换了个角度去思考住宅设计。

And thankfully, got weeded out because it forced me to think about homes differently.

我始终对建筑环境很感兴趣，但后来走了商业路线，做了家居改造的工作，还帮老爸打理我的新潮商科学位带来的生意。

I still had this interest in the built environment, but I went through the business path and got into home improvement work, and I helped my dad with my newfangled business degree.

我帮老爸把他的小生意做起来，主要是做橱柜升级。

I helped my dad grow his small business that was cabinet improvements.

我们不是从头做橱柜，而是让现有的橱柜变得更好用。

So we didn't make cabinets, we made them better.

对吧？

Right?

我们会去改造现有的橱柜，给客户加装抽拉式托盘或者储物系统，主要服务那些年纪大了、想继续住在自己家里的老人。

So we would go into existing cabinetry and create rollout trays or rollout storage devices for people, mostly for folks that were getting older and wanted to stay in their home longer.

这又回到了宜居性的问题，让人能安心久住，避免因为找东西比如慢炖锅而扭伤腰或摔跤。

So back to livability, back to staying in your home, this resiliency piece so that you didn't have to potentially injure yourself digging around for the crock pot kind of thing.

之后到了2007年，我们的生意做得不错，每年增长35%。

And after that, in 2007, we were doing a good bit of business growing at 35% a year.

但到了2008年，我们就关门了。

And in 2008, we were closed.

所以我们当时就像在帆船上，本该收帆下潜，却反而把大帆张开了。

So we got caught with our in sailing terms, I would say we were putting out our spinnaker when we should have been diving.

差不多就是这种情况，或者说是该改向的时候却没改。

Something like that, or tacking perhaps.

但这是一次很棒的学习经历，虽然痛苦，却很有价值，让我有机会环顾四周，发现了建筑科学。

But it was a great learning experience, painful but useful, and it that allowed me to look around and I found building science.

我找到了一个全新的领域，打算一辈子都玩下去。

I found the new sandbox that I wanted to play in for the rest of my life.

所以简单说一下，我后来做了能源审计和能源咨询，做了大量基础检测，用了很多红外设备，也考了不少相关认证。

And so to fast forward that a bit, it was energy audit or energy advising, and lots of low order tests, and lots of infrared, and lots of certifications for that matter.

我最终成了BPI的培训师，后来还当上了BPI考官，还拿了其他一些认证，学到了很多东西。

I ended up becoming a BPI trainer and eventually a BPI proctor and other certifications as well and just learning a ton.

有一段时间，我以独立承包商的身份做建筑科学方面的验证工作。

I was an independent contractor for a while around building science verifications.

之后我又进入了能效评级和暖通设计领域。

And then I got into an incurs rating and mechanical design.

对吧？

Right?

于是我就坐下来，整天对着电脑做软件工作，想办法预测和呈现建筑的各种情况。

So sitting down at a desk doing lots of software work and figuring out ways to forecast and represent what buildings are all about.

我之前有住宅方面的经验，现在又有了全新的体验。

And that was so I had this sort of existing home experience, and then I had this new home experience.

后来我搬到亚利桑那州，在那里担任一家HERS评级公司的现场主管兼技术总监。

And then I moved down to Arizona where I did, I would say, field director, field technical director for a HERS rating company down there.

所以我有机会接触大批量住宅开发商。

So I had the benefit of production home builders.

也正是在那里，我拿到了我的铅封认证、正式的ResNet HERS评级员认证，还有CS+核查员资格。

And got really into that's where I picked up my lead and my actual ResNet HERS rater certification, as well as CS plus verifier.

我把这些来自不同渠道的信息和目标整合起来，应用到实际工作中，这正是我最享受的部分。

And so taking all these sort of sources of information and aspirations and trying to apply them to the field, that's what I really enjoyed as well.

比如在去现场做检查或质量控制时，遇到不合格的情况，你会意识到：哎，我们上周才给这个开发商或分包商做过培训啊。

So taking a pass fail scenario from when you go out to do an inspection or quality control for a builder or even internally, finding something that wasn't quite in alignment and how do you realize that, oh, we just trained this builder or this subcontractor last week on this.

现在又要再来一遍了，因为换了一拨新人。

Now we get to do it again because it's a new crew.

所以从‘通过或失败’的模式，转向‘通过并培训’的模式。

And so shifting from this pass fail scenario to pass train scenario.

我们努力提升大家的知识水平，同时坚持初衷——帮助开发商尽快走完关键流程，不耽误交房、不拖延竣工验收这些事。

So helping to try to raise the knowledge base and while staying true to the intent of helping the builder move through their critical path as quickly as possible, not delay the opening of the house, the certificate of occupancy, etcetera.

后来在亚利桑那，我实在受不了整天啃玻璃纤维、撞头，还有夏天 attic 里温度飙到 140 华氏度，满地都是钉子，就决定以后要靠请人吃饭过日子。

So from there, I down in Arizona, I got tired of chewing on fiberglass and bumping my head and roofing nails in attics that were a 140 degrees in the summer, and I decided that I wanted to take people to lunch for a living.

于是，我有幸加入了 Mid Species 电动热泵公司的性能建造团队。

And so that's I had an opportunity, a great opportunity to work with the performance construction team at Mid Species Electric heat pumps.

那是一支很棒的团队，玩得很开心，认识了很多优秀的人，也把我的建筑科学背景用上了，深入理解了建筑的‘心脏’和‘肺’——也就是暖通系统。

And an amazing team, had a lot of fun, got to meet really great folks, apply my building science background, and learn deeply about the sort of the heartbeat of the building, which is heartbeat and lungs of the building, which is HVAC.

你可能听说了一年半前三菱的那场召回事件。

And then you might know about the Mitsubishi Purge about a year and a half ago.

我们团队有不少人被裁了，具体人数我不能说，但确实不少。

So our team and about I can't actually talk about how many people were let go, but quite a few people were let go from Mitsubishi.

我有个客户，是个叫德里克·金的承包商，他是最早主动谈起建筑科学的那批人之一。

And one of my clients, one of my customers, contractor by the name of Derek King, and he was one of the first contractors that really talked about building science without being prompted.

我们聊得来，觉得有合作机会，我就说：要不咱们聊聊？

We got along and saw an opportunity and so I said, hey, let's chat.

一年后的今天，我成了这家蓬勃发展的暖通公司合伙人，每天都在努力不崩溃。

And here I am a year later as a partner in a great and growing HVAC company and trying not to go crazy every day.

太棒了。

Awesome.

从小时候在那些特别的房子里的经历，一路走到现在，真是段了不起的旅程。

Man, that's an incredible journey from, yeah, to having those early experiences as a kid in those very unique homes.

是的。

Yeah.

在木屋用木柴取暖，这种经历真的会让你深刻理解湿度变化——尤其是那种整栋都是原木结构的木屋，简直像有生命一样，呼吸着。听上去你几乎把建筑科学领域的所有认证都拿全了，从BPI到被动房标准。

With wood heating in a log cabin, like that definitely teaches you a lot about changes in humidity and man, a log cabin in particular is almost like a living and breathing creature if it's a true full log structure all the way through man, you've got it sounds like almost every certification you can get on the building science side from BPI to full blown passive houses.

你能

Can you

我真的很佩服你积累的这么多经验和专业知识。

so I'm just so impressed by just the amount of experience and knowledge you have.

不过你从三菱离职后，为什么会突然想合伙开一家施工公司呢？这转变有点出人意料。

It's not obvious though that after the change in your role at Mitsubishi, why did you think that it was like, yes, I wanna co own a contracting business now.

以你的背景来看，这确实是当时最适合你的选择。

That's the right thing to do for where I am in my career with your background.

有人可能会觉得这是在倒退。

Someone say moving backwards.

对吧？

Right?

很多技术工种都是这样，先自己创业，干累了就转去做分销或者制造这类工作。

A lot of trades and moving to ownership and then perhaps getting tired of that and moving into distribution or manufacturing roles, that stuff.

所以，是这样。

So, yeah.

也许这背后还藏着一种自我怀疑的心理，就像冒名顶替综合症那样。

Maybe it's this subtext, mental subtext of the impostor syndrome.

我知道我很想深入了解这个话题。

I know I I wanna learn about this.

我真的特别想弄明白这个。

I wanna really learn about this.

对吧？

Right?

而且我也清楚，自己不懂的东西还有很多。

And knowing that there's a ton that I don't know.

说实话，也许这话有点多，但要坦白讲，如果这件事没有附带股权，我大概不会接这个机会。

And to be fair, and maybe this is too much information, but to be fair, I don't think I would have taken the opportunity if it didn't have some ownership equity attached to it.

因为有位好朋友，也是我在建筑科学方面的导师，他跟我说过：如果你够幸运，就能找到一种方式，通过工作让自己逐渐退出一线——去教育、去传播、去拓展现有的知识，投身于比你自身更宏大的事业，哪怕这些事可能在你有生之年都解决不了。

And because there's somebody, a good friend who was one of my mentors in building science, he told me, if you're lucky, you get to find a way to work to put yourself out of a job, to educate, to inform, to expand on what's out there, what you're doing, and work on things that are bigger than you that perhaps can't be solved in your lifetime.

所以，这正是我宏大目标的一部分：放眼大局，像个未来主义者，更重要的是，保持好奇心。

And so that's part of my big why, is looking at the big picture, closet futurist, and frankly, staying curious.

也许这才是最重要的。

Maybe that's the biggest thing.

我只是很好奇。

I was just curious.

我该怎么学习，做得更好，也帮别人做得更好？

How do I learn and do a better job and help others do a better job?

当然。

Sure.

这回答真不错。

Well, that's a great answer.

那现在怎么样？

And how is it?

你既然跳了出去，到现在大概有一年了吧？

So like now that you took that jump, it's been what, a year?

是的。

Yeah.

一年多一点。

A little over a year.

感觉怎么样？

How is it?

是的。

Yeah.

我真的很幸运。

I'm very fortunate.

我心怀感激，但实际比我想的要难得多。

I am full of gratitude, and it's harder than I thought it would be

对。

Yeah.

没错。

For sure.

最近我在领英上有了一些动态。

And there's some recent LinkedIn activity.

我回复了一篇很棒的帖子，看完我就想，没错，这人说得太对了。

I responded to a great post, and I'm like, yes, this, what this guy said.

因为我们国家有很多人能在资源有限的情况下把事情做得特别出色，这真的很了不起。

Because it's we live in a our country is graced by folks that do things on a shoestring, and it's amazing.

而且还有更高标准的工艺和品质，我们也能从中受益。

And then there's like this up tier performance of specifications and quality, and we get to benefit from that as well.

至于怎么运营一家九个人的公司，我们团队里其实有位成员和我们和平分开了。

And how to operate a nine person company, we actually, one of our crews, I would say we had a mutual parting.

以前我们人稍微多一点，现在精简了，我觉得反而更好了。

So we used to be a little bit bigger and now we've contracted a little bit, I would say for the better.

怎么管理一家规模小但正在成长的公司，同时坚持质量、耐用性、安全和遵守规范这些关键点。

And so how to run a small growing company that aspires to the important points of quality, durability, safety, and following the rules.

对吧？

Right?

这样既能合法合规地开展业务，又能给技术员工提供不错的报酬，同时兼顾竞争力和成本控制。

So that's permitted work and it's paying our technicians well and being both competitive as well as cost managing and all the things.

经营一家小企业，细节实在太多了，每一步都有很多讲究。

There's just so many line items, so many little nuances of running a small business.

我觉得大多数暖通空调承包商都很负责任，把活儿干得不错，这点没问题。

And I think most HVAC contractors, they do a good job at owning their job, and that's not a problem.

我觉得这根本不是问题。

I don't see that as a problem.

我只是希望能产生比换换设备更大的影响。

I just happen to want to have more impact than swapping boxes.

所以这里面就存在一种张力，关于我们公司和个人真正追求的目标是什么。

And so there's tension in that about what is our aspirational goal as a company and as individuals.

我本来想把这些建议留到对话最后再说，但想想是什么让我们每天都愿意坐到一起。

And I might save this recommendation for the end of the conversation here, but just thinking about what brings all of us to the table every day.

是什么让我们每天都愿意投入项目、并肩合作？

What gets us to work on a project or work together every day?

驱动大家的动机多种多样，有客户的，有技术员的，有销售的，也有那些每天默默支撑公司运转的人。

There's a lot of motivations out there, whether it's the client's motivations, whether it's the technician's motivations, the sales professional ownership, and the people that basically help run the business every day too.

我们现在最大的痛点，可能就是运营和管理上对卓越的追求。

That's probably our biggest point of pain right now is just our operational administrative thinking of excellence.

我们该怎么做到呢？

How do we get there?

有时候特别顺，有时候又真让人头疼。

And some days are amazing, and some days are just a pain in the butt.

我不知道有没有回答到你的问题，埃德。

I don't know if I answered your question, Ed.

你这话直接戳中我了，因为说真的，这跟运营Amply的感觉一模一样，而且也让我想起我们刚起步时，服务的是普通家庭。

You shot an arrow directly into my heartstrings because, frankly, that kinda sounds exactly what it's like running Amply, and it also deeply resonated for when we started Amply, we were serving homeowners.

那时候我们甚至还没自己做安装，只是在设计整套住宅的电气化方案。

And we weren't even so we were subbing out the installations, but we were designing whole home electrification projects.

对我们来说，‘为什么’特别重要，那就是每天早上爬起来的动力。

And the why was super important for us, what got us out of bed in the morning.

埃里克是个特别严苛的主管，总盯着我的住宅设计。

Eric was an unbelievable taskmaster to make sure my designs for homes.

说起来也不奇怪，毕竟他是机械工程师，懂行，而我完全外行，但他就是死磕，一定要让设计精准，Manual J、Manual S、Manual D，样样都得到位。

Like, not surprising the mechanical engineer knows what he's doing and I have no idea, but Eric was a taskmaster for making sure the design was dialed, the Manual J was dialed, Manual S, Manual D, everything.

我们公司里也曾有人质疑，这一切真的有必要吗？

And there was friction in our company for was a little more like, is all this necessary?

他当然说服了我，但我能理解那种想法。

And he, of course, brought me around, but I can see that.

所以，你的回答很棒，真的引起了很多共鸣。

So anyway, your answer was great and resonated quite a bit.

这让我想到另一个问题，就是你刚才问的‘为什么’，你们最近刚把公司重新命名为Mountain West Heat Pumps，对吧？

And so it sparked for me another one, which is like your question on the why, and you guys just rebranded Mountain West Heat Pumps.

你们的初衷是什么？

What is the why?

为什么你们特别专注于热泵？

Why are you guys focused on heat pumps?

能再多讲讲吗？

Tell us more about that.

我再补充一点，虽然我们是小公司，但既做 retrofit，也做一部分新建项目。

I'll add to a little bit of complexity here that we do for a small company, we do both primarily retrofit and some new construction as well.

当你跟暖通专业人士说起新建项目时，他们通常会笑一笑，说‘祝你好运’，然后转身就走，因为这完全是另一套生意模式。

So when you say new construction to an HVAC professional, they often, yeah, laugh at you and say, good luck with that, and walk the other direction because it's a very different business model.

对吧？

Right?

也不是说这模式不好，只是完全不一样。

It's not that it's a bad business model, just very different.

所以我们现在面对的难题很多：前沿技术、人力短缺、专业知识不足——我这么说已经很客气了，全国真正愿意做热泵的熟练暖通技工实在太少了。

So how do we tackle all the complexities that are cutting edge technology and labor constraints, knowledge, I would say short, I want to be polite about this, we don't have enough skilled HVAC folks in the country that want to take on heat pumps.

对吧？

Right?

说来好笑，好消息是，办法多的是。

The joke is the good news is there's lots of ways to do it.

坏消息是，办法也多得让人眼花缭乱。

The bad news is there's lots of ways to do it.

尤其是多区系统、有风管和无风管这些不同方案，各种组合让人头疼。

And especially with the multi zones and ducted versus ductless and etcetera and so on.

那该怎么传达这一点呢？

So how to communicate that.

接下来，沟通的关键在于我们的动机——对我来说，就是要全面电气化。

And then the communication is this next level of our motivations of, for me, it's about going all electric.

对吧？

Right?

是为了减少碳排放。

It's about decarbonization.

是为了提升性能。

It's about performance.

我跟三菱合作时学到一点，应该说意识到的是：我们完全可以在保证高性能的同时做成本优化。

And one thing that I learned working with Mitsubishi is I thought about or realized, I should say, is that there's this the ability to value engineer while defending high performance.

我们该怎么帮助人们更接近他们自己的目标呢？

How do we help people move further down the pathway to what their personal goals are?

这些目标可能是经济上的，也可能是舒适度、健康安全，或者是性能表现。

And that might be financial, and it might be comfort, and it might be health and safety, and it might be performance.

我想把这系统里的数据导出来之类的。

Oh, I want the data off this system, etcetera.

我们挺幸运的，大多数客户都处在消费者采纳曲线的早期创新者或早期采纳者那一端。

And we're lucky that most of our clients are somewhere on that early adopter, early innovator half of the consumer adoption curve.

在科罗拉多，我觉得我们正从早期创新者转向早期采纳者，因为现在有人来问暖气和空调的报价，但会说：我知道热泵这回事。

The in Colorado, I would say we're transitioning from the early innovators to the early adopters because we get folks that are getting furnace AC quotes, but they're like, yeah, but I've heard about heat pumps.

所以我们能跟他们好好聊聊。

And we get to have that conversation.

我们基本上是按‘好、更好、最好’这种思路来考虑的。

And we're it's very much good, better, best types of thinking.

坦白说，补贴这块儿我先不展开讲联邦层面的政策，毕竟现在谁也说不准。

And frankly, the incentives, which I'm gonna set aside the converse the incentive conversation at the federal level because who the heck knows right now.

在我看来，大部分补贴其实还是由本地消费者需求推动的，而这跟当地电力公司、部分地方政府，以及一些推动脱碳和战略电气化的区域非营利组织密切相关。

And I will say, in my opinion, that most of the incentives are gonna continue to be promoted by a, the local consumer demand, which is directly related to the utility in the area, and probably some jurisdictions as well as just various entities that might be regional NGOs, organizations that are promoting decarbonization, strategic electrification.

所以这些因素对我们来说都特别有利，而我们之所以能赶上这股趋势，是因为我们根本不做任何广告。

And so those all line up really well for us and how that's trends, how that's come about for us is we don't do any advertising.

我们全靠客户推荐来做生意，这在一些听众看来可能有点疯狂，或者正是他们想效仿的模式。

We run our business on referral, which is maybe either crazy to think about for some of your listeners or what they're trying to emulate.

我也说不准。

I don't know.

某种程度上吧。

Somewhere Yeah.

确实如此。

In the Yeah.

这种模式也让我们每天都对自己的决定负责，因为今天的对话可能源于去年的交流，同时也会影响明年的对话，促使我们每天都尽力做到最好。

And in that, it holds us accountable to our decisions every day as well because it's not just about the conversation we're having right now that could be spawned from the conversation we had last year, but it also affects the conversations we'll be having next year and doing our best work every day.

坦白说，作为一个坚信脱碳和全面电气化转型的人，我觉得自己算是少数派。

And frankly, as an individual believing in decarbonization and all of which get all electric transitions, I would say I'm in the minority.

对吧？

Right?

确实有一些新的 HVAC 和建筑行业从业者在主动关注这个领域，但总体上仍属于早期创新者和早期采纳者的范畴。

And there is new stock of professionals, HVAC and building professionals that are seeking this out, but certainly still in that early innovator, early adopter arena.

没错。

Totally.

说到电气化，确实面临不少挑战。

When we're talking about electrification in particular, there's a lot of different challenges.

我想听听你谈谈其中的一些坑，比如财务方面的。

I'm interested for you to talk about some of the pitfalls, whether that's the financial side.

补贴政策复杂，设备和人工成本又在变，还有技术设计这些环节也挺难搞的。

It's hard to navigate some of the rebates and changing cost of the equipment, labor, or the, like, the technical piece, the design aspect.

现在电气化领域最大的难题有哪些？

What are some of the big challenges on the electrification front these days?

是的。

Yeah.

我们一直在讨论市场上那个混合能源的选项。

We continue to have conversations around the dual fuel opportunity that's out there in the market.

我觉得混合能源是个很好的过渡方案。

And I think dual fuel is a excellent transition technology.

我们会随着采用率的提升，调整我们在这条曲线上的定位，逐步加入这项技术。

And I would say we will be adding that in as the adoption curve, our position on that adoption curve changes.

我认为我们会重点推广高性能双燃料方案，帮助那些需要匹配自家房屋和生活阶段的用户。

I think we'll be looking at high performance dual fuel to help the right the person that needs that fit for their home and their point in their lives.

对吧？

Right?

如果能减少50%到70%，甚至95%的燃气燃烧，这对整个社会来说都是巨大的进步。

I think it's societal win to eliminate 50 to 70 to 95% of the gas combustion.

我们就把这当作一个成功，正朝着这个方向推进。

So we'll take that as a win and we're moving in that direction.

与此同时，我们也在用软件工具来做负荷计算和系统设计。

And in the meantime, we do use software tools around the load calculations and around the system design.

我们在科罗拉多州面临一些特别的挑战，比如海拔高度，我参与过在海拔11000英尺的地方安装系统。

We have really, I would say, relatively unique challenges of altitude in Colorado, and I've been involved with systems that are being installed at 11,000 foot elevation.

很多人都觉得不可思议。

And people blows their minds.

你在说什么呢？

What are you talking about?

它们根本没法运行。

They can't work.

那里空气太稀薄了。

There's not enough air up there.

我们只能靠计算来解决。

We just gotta do the math.

对吧？

Right?

软件工具帮我们完成这些计算。

And software tools help us do the math.

你得从技术和艺术两个角度来考虑这个问题。

And then it's this great you have to think about it from both a technical and artistic perspective.

对吧？

Right?

这绝对是右脑和左脑的结合。

It's right brain, left brain for sure.

明白了。

Okay.

我们该怎么解决这个问题？

How do we solve this?

对于支持多区域控制的系统，怎么应对房屋不同区域的使用需求、不同年代的建筑结构这些情况呢？

How do you with a multi zone capable system, with different uses of the house, different ages of the house, etcetera.

在山区，大家普遍依赖锅炉供暖。

Up in the mountains, they're very boiler heavy.

所以在那儿，无管道系统确实很常见。

And so it's ductless is a thing up there for sure.

但还有一个问题，就是我们怎么引入新风通风。

But then there's also this question about, okay, we can bring in ventilation.

对吧？

Right?

室内空气质量是个大事，得把这些考虑带进对话里，但他们总会说，‘可是肖恩，我们一年有六个月都开着窗，空气太好了。’

Indoor air quality considerations and bringing that knowledge to the conversation and that they're like, yeah, but Shawn, we leave our windows open six months out of the year because it's amazing.

但这六个月中间，正好是他们说的‘烟季’或者‘火灾季’，而且这几年这季节好像越来越长了。

But in the middle of that six months is what they call smoke season or fire season, which seems to be getting bigger these days or longer.

所以他们确实需要过滤系统，而且这些房子可能是度假屋，或者住在佛罗里达、德克萨斯的人，他们晚上睡觉时就指望空调吹着风。

And so they do want the filtration and they do this might be second homes or someone that lives in Florida or Texas and they expect to feel the air conditioning blowing on them in the middle of the night.

这都是他们从小习惯的模式。

It's just part of how they grew up.

这其实是我常说的，不是单纯的节能，而是‘用得值’——每个人都有自己的能源使用方式。

It's part of their, is a term that I like to use, it's not so much energy efficiency but energy effectiveness and everybody has their own energy lifestyle.

对吧？

Right?

所以我不会去评判那些住在海拔一万英尺高处还想要开空调的人，毕竟他们得关窗、过滤PM2.5，才能安心睡觉。

So I'm not gonna judge someone that wants to have air conditioning when they have a house at 10,000 foot elevation because you might have to close the window and filter PM 2.5 while they sleep.

没错。

Right.

或者类似的情况。

Or etcetera.

得在这些因素之间找平衡。

It's balancing all these things.

接下来，关于动机，可能还会谈到电网这个话题。

And then along the motivations and a little bit maybe another topic of conversation is the grid.

明白吧？

Alright?

全电住宅、全电汽车，等等。

So all electric homes, all electric cars, etcetera.

这让很多人开始担心，对电网的稳定性和韧性会带来什么影响，尤其是在那些小城镇——当地公用事业公司早就告诉居民，不会再有天然气管道接入了。

It's really prompting a lot of folks to worry about what does that mean for the grid durability and resilience, especially in small towns that have basically been told by local utilities that there's no more gas being piped in.

因此，我们看到这些小城镇正面临巨大的转型激励，而它们本身在 affordability、技术工人短缺、运营成本等方面已经压力重重，毕竟去一趟房子那儿，路途耗时要翻倍。

And so there's we're seeing some very significant incentives for our transitions, changing of direction in these small towns that struggle in so many ways, affordability, skilled trades, just the straight up cost to operate a business up there because it's gonna take you twice as long to go the distance to get to the house.

这些地方的压力实在太多了。

There's so many pressures up in these places.

所以，能够进行这些对话，对我来说是一段非常有意义的旅程。

And so, having Being able to have these conversations is really It's been a great journey for myself and out.

在销售、运营和宣传中，怎么把这些信息有效传达出来，确实是个挑战。

It's been a struggle, perhaps, to figure out how we convey that in our sales process, in our business process, in our messaging, etcetera.

所以我们经常和那些已经深入当地社区的组织合作，他们正在开展这类对话，推广我们专注的方向。

And so we will often partner with organizations that are already have they're already engaged in the local community, and they're having these conversations and promoting the directions that we specialize in.

这一直是我们的一项战略优势。

That's been our strategic, I'll call it a strategic advantage for us.

很棒。

Nice.

我很喜欢这一点。

I love that.

确实如此。

Yeah.

我觉得你刚才提到的两点特别关键。

I feel like I heard two key things from what you just said.

首先，现在变化很快，你必须能跟上这些变化。

So one, things are changing pretty fast, and you gotta be able to adapt to those changes.

我觉得挺有意思的是，就拿野火季越来越长这一点来说，以前可能几年前根本不会想到，这会成为在无管道系统中提供ERV时必须认真考虑的空气过滤和室内空气质量问题。

I think it's interesting, like, just the piece alone about, yeah, fire season getting longer and that being a thing you really gotta think about with air filtration, indoor air quality, where maybe even a few years ago, it wouldn't have really been on your mind as, like, an important solution to offer an ERV in a ductless situation.

然后还有你提到的这一点，

And then that point about, hey.

每个社区都有独特的挑战，你们能和当地了解这些关键或特殊状况的人合作，真的非常聪明——毕竟，外人想一下子搞清楚所有情况，实在太难了。

Where there's unique challenges in a community, that's so smart that you're partnering with someone local who understands the critical or unique dynamics in a particular community where, yeah, it's really challenging to be someone to come in and figure it all out all at once.

你们同时做这两件事，真的很棒。

So that's great you're doing both those things.

是的。

Yeah.

这大概就是科学中的艺术吧。

It's it's the art of the science perhaps.

没错。

Yeah.

没错。

Totally.

你刚才提到其中一个挑战。

And so you mentioned it in there about one of the challenges.

你提到在设计过程中使用软件。

You mentioned this using software in your design process.

在深入这一点之前，我想先问一下。

Before we even I wanna dig into that.

如果你们现在根本不用花一分钱做广告，那你们的生活简直太理想了。

Before we even get to that, if you guys aren't if you're living the dream of not spending any money on advertising.

你提到和社区里的本地组织合作，推动这项工作，但你们现在到底是怎么获取业务的呢？

You mentioned partnering with local organizations that are in the community that are driving this work, but like how are you guys driving business right now?

是完全靠口碑推荐，还是有其他几种方式？不管怎样，你们是怎么带来客户的，我很感兴趣。

Is it all word-of-mouth or are there a couple different things that just anyway, how you're driving those leads is would be intriguing.

是的，我们就是这样。

We are yes.

我们主要靠口碑传播。

We're word-of-mouth.

客户都是朋友和邻居之间互相推荐来的。

We are seeing leads come in, friends and neighbors talking to each other.

最近我们引入了一些工具，跟我们的品牌定位挺契合的。

And also, we've recently brought on tools that align with our, I don't know, I guess I could say the name.

我们用了一个叫Podium的工具，很多人应该都听说过。

We use a tool called Podium, which I think a lot of folks are familiar with.

改名的时候，我们正好上线Podium，帮我们快速完成品牌切换，保持客户不流失，也通知了老客户我们已经更名了。

And when we changed our name, we aligned that bringing on Podium to help us change the name relatively quickly and maintain uptake and communicate to our previous clients that we have changed.

比如在邮件签名里加上新名字，在网站顶部放个横幅，诸如此类的简单操作。

So it's simple things like putting it into our email signatures and putting a banner at the top of our website and obviously, all that stuff.

Podium还帮我们联系了过去的客户，很快拉到了不少五星评价，这对自然搜索排名帮助很大。

But then Podium helped us reach out to our past customers and generate five star reviews pretty quickly, and that helps with the organic searches, etcetera.

这些就是我们用过的一些技术手段。

So just some of the technical strategies that we've used.

另外，在人际和自然的层面，我们也会参加一些通常不被认为是潜在客户来源的活动。

Also, back on the personal and human and organic side is going up at events that you wouldn't normally think of as a source of leads.

因为我们真正关心如何解决人们在家居舒适度或暖通空调方面的问题，这种真诚的态度让客户感受到，我们出现是因为这件事对我们来说有意义。

Because being curious about solving people's HVAC challenges, comfort challenges with their existing home or maybe a new home, it really helps promote just the recognition that we're showing up because we it's meaningful to us.

我们到场是有目的的，不是为了简单地换设备。

We're there for a reason, not just to swap boxes.

而且因为我们规模小，只要足够用心和细致，我们既能做新建项目，也能做改造工程。

And then the I will also say that because we're small enough when we can if we're careful and diligent, we can do both new construction and retrofit.

这种兼顾两种不同盈利模式的业务平衡，帮助我们渡过季节性的低谷期。

And that balance of business, both two different profit centers like that, allow us to weather the storm, the seasonal storm.

对我们来说，一月份向来是淡季，但靠着新建项目，我们能让团队一直有活干。

So January for us has been notoriously slow, And so we were we've been able to keep our guys busy doing new construction stuff.

还有一件事，我们目前还没做，但正在朝这个方向努力。

And here's another interesting thing that that we don't do, but we are working towards.

我们不做维修服务。

We don't do service.

我们没有售后服务部门。

We don't have a service department.

我们也没有服务用车。

We don't have a service truck.

我们从不推广维修服务，也不签任何维护协议。

We do not promote service nor do we have maintenance agreements.

这些方面其实都是我们业务增长的机会，我们正在开发一些工具，帮助更好地运营公司，为未来的扩张做准备。

So all of these things, we know these are opportunities for us to grow the business, and I would say we're working on tools that help us run the business and get prepared for that growth.

现在，我们也开始关注如何与一些专业人士合作，提升市场营销的效果。

And now and we are starting to look at marketing advances in marketing with various professionals.

我挺乐意推荐他们的，因为他们确实做得很好。

Actually, I don't mind recommending them because I think they they do a great job.

Energy Circle。

Energy Circle.

是的。

Oh, yeah.